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View Full Version : Because of this ep, I no longer dislike Keller



stargatelvr
November 21st, 2008, 07:25 PM
I was, not exactly a Keller Hater, persay, but I didn't care for the character. Until this episode. I am now a Keller fan.

Eyeofra
November 21st, 2008, 07:31 PM
The character has been sound and jewel staite plays the character perfectly its just that i think some people do not like it because her character does not get flushed out and makes her look like a whiner. personally i love Dr.Keller

JeffKnight
November 21st, 2008, 07:38 PM
I think there are a lot of hard feelings about Keller because of who she replaced. Carson was, and still is, very much liked by the fan base and because of the way Keller came in it is harder for some of us to accept her.

Briangate78
November 21st, 2008, 07:43 PM
In all fairness, Carson returned this season. I prefer Carson over Keller, but I don't hate Keller. Keller had/will have 14 eps and Carson had/will have 5 eps this season. Do I wish it was vice versa, yes. Still, Keller doesn't take away anything from the show for me. She also doesn't really add anything for me either, but thats ok. She was not even in the last 4 eps except for one small scene, and the rest of the team including Carson kicked ass. So TPTB are not shoving Keller down people's throats like some folks claim.

beneaththeblue
November 21st, 2008, 07:55 PM
I liked the way they wrote her character for this episode, but they haven't shown any reason why Keller would fall for Rodney, so I don't quite believe this ship.

On a shallower note, who dresses Jewel? She's a pretty girl, but looked so frumpy in that dress-someone needs to tell her to stand up straight. And boots? With a cocktail dress at a black tie party???

bluealien
November 22nd, 2008, 12:54 AM
I gave Keller a chance, the same way I gave Woolsey a chance, but I love how RP has portrayed Woolsey, but I can't same the same for Jewel's portrayal of Keller. Her whinny voice has nothing to do with the writing and her portrayal of a doctor is dismal. My dislike of her has nothing to do with any other character. She gets worse in every episode and the fact the she was forced into the show when she was never needed doesn't endear me to her either.

She should have remained a supporting character and only featured when a doctor was required but shoving her in front and centre in these awful scenarios will never ever endear me to this character. If they had kept her in a supporting role maybe I could have handled the character a bit better. This forced relationship with zero chemistry between the characters is just the final straw.

talyn2k1
November 22nd, 2008, 01:59 AM
I've never been a massive Keller fan but I must admit to liking the character a little more after this episode.

I also wasn't sure about McKeller but they do make a cute couple and she grounds Rodney in the same way Katie did, but better.

I don't mind relationships as long as it isn't shoved in our faces, although I thought the declaration of love was a little premature, I think TV shows use that word a little too loosely sometimes.

Doing it on a plane...dirty girl, lucky Rodney! :)

Pharaoh Atem
November 22nd, 2008, 02:13 AM
I was, not exactly a Keller Hater, persay, but I didn't care for the character. Until this episode. I am now a Keller fan.

"highfive"

Wardog117
November 22nd, 2008, 07:44 AM
At first I thought TPTB did a poor job with her character. Sorry, but nobody can replace Carson. However, her character has improved this season and she did really well in this episode.

ed263
November 22nd, 2008, 07:56 AM
I've never been a massive Keller fan but I must admit to liking the character a little more after this episode.

I also wasn't sure about McKeller but they do make a cute couple and she grounds Rodney in the same way Katie did, but better.

I also think they make a cute couple! I really enjoyed this episode and watching Rodney saving his girl..just warm fuzzies! The look of awe and wonder in Rodney's eyes when Keller told him how she feels... awwwwww!

Madwelshboy
November 22nd, 2008, 08:10 AM
In all fairness, Carson returned this season. I prefer Carson over Keller, but I don't hate Keller. Keller had/will have 14 eps and Carson had/will have 5 eps this season. Do I wish it was vice versa, yes. Still, Keller doesn't take away anything from the show for me. She also doesn't really add anything for me either, but thats ok. She was not even in the last 4 eps except for one small scene, and the rest of the team including Carson kicked ass. So TPTB are not shoving Keller down people's throats like some folks claim.

I agree with what your saying here. Carson will always come to mind as Atlantis CMO, which i think has more to do with how Paul played him than how the character was writen. But your right Keller dosent take anythin away from the show, an ive never felt like the TPTB where shoving the Character down my throat.

Personally i would have loved to have seen a Carson/Keller ep, with Keller as Carson sidekick in a big medical problem.

Ranlier
November 22nd, 2008, 10:24 AM
On a shallower note, who dresses Jewel? She's a pretty girl, but looked so frumpy in that dress-someone needs to tell her to stand up straight. And boots? With a cocktail dress at a black tie party???

Its in Jewel Staite's contract that she has to look god awful in any dress any time. I reference Firefly, Episode "Shindig"

Linda06
November 22nd, 2008, 10:34 AM
The more I see Keller the more I start to hate her if that's even possible :S

Daniela
November 22nd, 2008, 10:45 AM
She's tolerable I suppose. But it's not enough to tempt me into being a fan. It's kind of hard seeing her as a doctor. And she's still the same whiny character from Firefly. BUt this episode gave me a little more respect for her character.

Gav
November 22nd, 2008, 11:22 AM
Carson over Keller? No way...if nothing else atleast Jewel Staites nice to look at, Paul McGillion cant act his way out of a paper bag. Whenever hes on screen trying his hardest to look under pressure it just looks....bad. And is distracting. The man can't act.


And i never really cared that much for Keller, but after this episode she's definatly grown on me. They never got to put a proper love story in SG-1 so its felt to me like the definatly wanted to have one in Atlantis, and although it leapt ahead dramatically i really loved it.

You can't beat a good "Son of a *****!" line either...that won me over to Keller instantly. And Bill Nigh telling the guy who looked like the grief councillor from Scrubs to man up....great episode infact.

jyh
November 22nd, 2008, 12:36 PM
I liked the way they wrote her character for this episode, but they haven't shown any reason why Keller would fall for Rodney, so I don't quite believe this ship.

On a shallower note, who dresses Jewel? She's a pretty girl, but looked so frumpy in that dress-someone needs to tell her to stand up straight. And boots? With a cocktail dress at a black tie party???

Ha ha, two great points, beaneaththeblue. I too wonder why she has fallen for McKay. They just don't seem to be a good fit... to me at least. [DISCLAIMER: that is just my opinion. I'm very aware that others have other opinions, and that's 100% cool with me. I just wouldn't envision a Keller falling for a McKay... can't say why exactly.]

As for the second point... I too goggled my eyes when I saw she was wearing boots. I just didn't think they went together... at. all. I did like the dress (altho a padded bra wouldn't hurt), and I thought her hair looked really nice. My eye was caught by her pendant, which I thought was quite interesting.

But..... boots??? :eek:

Gav
November 22nd, 2008, 12:44 PM
But..... boots??? :eek:


I could've been wrong but i thought they were knee high socks?

Showfan
November 22nd, 2008, 12:54 PM
Hmmm...because of this episode I HATE Keller even more. Not just strongly dislike, but hate with a passion I've never felt for a fictional character before in my entire life.

I'm sorry, this isn't Atlantis and this non-character will never be Atlantis to me. And you know, I'm not a Beckett fan. I could care a less about him.

Oh show.:(

Lewisco
November 22nd, 2008, 04:03 PM
i never hated Keller. this episode just made me like her more, as much as people try and deny it's not because of Beckett they hate her, it is. and they know it. i fail to see whats to annoying about a character who if anything is more realistic than others. and Keller has developed a lot over the 2 seasons she's been there. and i think she's a great character.

Infinite-Possibilities
November 22nd, 2008, 04:13 PM
I'm not a "hater" of Keller, per say but I'm not a fan. I am not sold on her being a posative addition to the show. I don't really transfer any of the hatred of the direction of the McKeller romance to either of them specifically, its not exactly the characters fault. So my considerable distaste for the romantic parts of this episode didn't make me hate Keller anymore. This really didn't help though.

Linda06
November 22nd, 2008, 04:13 PM
Not all of us hate her because of Carson!

Briangate78
November 22nd, 2008, 04:54 PM
I agree with what your saying here. Carson will always come to mind as Atlantis CMO, which i think has more to do with how Paul played him than how the character was writen. But your right Keller dosent take anythin away from the show, an ive never felt like the TPTB where shoving the Character down my throat.

Personally i would have loved to have seen a Carson/Keller ep, with Keller as Carson sidekick in a big medical problem.

We may get that in "Identity" I know Carson and Keller teamed up in "The Kindred" and there were some nice moments. Keller scored a lot of points for me there. I am reading multiple forum sites and it looks like Keller is getting more postive feedback than negative feedback.

Carson has two more eps this season, so we got a little of everything to look forward to.

Major_Griff
November 23rd, 2008, 02:27 AM
I liked the way they wrote her character for this episode, but they haven't shown any reason why Keller would fall for Rodney, so I don't quite believe this ship.

Well in that scene in the Seed they showed her talking to Teyla about how She caught Rodney talking to Carson in the stasis pod and how he surprises her sometimes. When she said that she had this look on her face like she was into him. Also the Shrine had a moment or two like that.

ancientaction
November 24th, 2008, 03:38 AM
I like Keller

hotter than Carter:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Bx96Csni8FM/R2F2znCa0qI/AAAAAAAAAIY/w9dI5k6Yzxw/s1600/9140_jewel_-staite_hiqu_ru_00%5B1%5D.jpg

Rac80
November 24th, 2008, 06:37 AM
I could've been wrong but i thought they were knee high socks?

all that was missing from this "Lolita " ep was keller in a catholic school girl outfit. I like Keller, just can't not stomach mckeller... it's a nasty pairing! makes me go "squick"! :S:S

sueKay
November 24th, 2008, 06:42 AM
I really dislike Keller...strongly dislike her.

This was the first episode I actually didn't mind her in. She brings out the nicer side of Rodney, which is good, but I just don't buy that they're sooo head over heels in love.

They don't act like they're in love...they act like awkward 14 year-olds dating for the sake of dating

Cautious Explorer
November 24th, 2008, 06:48 AM
i never hated Keller. this episode just made me like her more, as much as people try and deny it's not because of Beckett they hate her, it is. and they know it. i fail to see whats to annoying about a character who if anything is more realistic than others. and Keller has developed a lot over the 2 seasons she's been there. and i think she's a great character.

How completely arrogant of you. Despite what people say, you somehow know their minds better than they do. The dislike of Keller couldn't possible have anything to do with her bland character, the way she changes personality from episode to episode, her dumbfounded looks, whiny voice, or her complete inability to convince me she has the intelligence or authority to be in charge of all things medical on Atlantis.

Nope. Couldn't possibly be any of those things. It must be all about Carson.

SerenaSerenity
November 24th, 2008, 07:21 AM
I have always liked Keller. And I do think it's a good pairing between those two. That is, of course, my own personal opinion. To each their own.

JasonG
November 24th, 2008, 10:38 AM
i never hated Keller. this episode just made me like her more, as much as people try and deny it's not because of Beckett they hate her, it is. and they know it. i fail to see whats to annoying about a character who if anything is more realistic than others. and Keller has developed a lot over the 2 seasons she's been there. and i think she's a great character.

Wow!

Before your post opened my eyes I really thought that I didn't like the Beckett character! Thanks for knowing me better than I know myself.

Honestly, Lewisco, Keller is an un-character. She's defined by her romances!

And frankly, Beckett never propositioning McKay in the back of the Puddlejumper is more than enough reason for me to like him better than Keller. How annoyingly childish she is!

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2008, 03:02 PM
Jennifer is much less annoying now. In fact, I tolerate her just fine. She's not in any way one of my favourite characters, however. However, this badly written ship the writers have tacked onto the show (no chemistry, almost nothing shown on-screen before "I love you!" declarations) lower my enjoyment of her character greatly.

Ikaros
November 25th, 2008, 06:41 AM
She is adorable, i loved her since Firefly. And i also think she is quite a great addition to the show. If she hadn't replace Carson people would 've been nicer to her.
I don't think anyone has anything else other than that against her. Winning? c'mmon, Zelenka won't even go on missions outside Atlantis....

maxbo
November 25th, 2008, 07:39 AM
i never hated Keller. this episode just made me like her more, as much as people try and deny it's not because of Beckett they hate her, it is. and they know it. i fail to see whats to annoying about a character who if anything is more realistic than others. and Keller has developed a lot over the 2 seasons she's been there. and i think she's a great character.


She is adorable, i loved her since Firefly. And i also think she is quite a great addition to the show. If she hadn't replace Carson people would 've been nicer to her.
I don't think anyone has anything else other than that against her. Winning? c'mmon, Zelenka won't even go on missions outside Atlantis....


If you believe that the only reason why Keller's not liked is because she replaced Carson, then you're practicing willful ignorance because posters have given many, *many* reasons why they don't like the character - reasons that have nothing to do with Carson.

Showfan
November 25th, 2008, 08:02 AM
She is adorable, i loved her since Firefly. And i also think she is quite a great addition to the show. If she hadn't replace Carson people would 've been nicer to her.
I don't think anyone has anything else other than that against her. Winning? c'mmon, Zelenka won't even go on missions outside Atlantis....

It never ceases to amaze me that after all that has been said on this board, some fans still believe that the bolded part above is true and accurate for all other fans.

To that end please allow me to defend myself once again.

Carson Beckett was never a favorite of mine but he never detracted from my overall enjoyment of watching Atlantis. Keller is not a favorite of mine. In fact, I dislike Keller a great deal. I'd even go as far as to say I abhor the character. Keller makes watching Atlantis at times for me an unbearable experience.

I'm happy you find the Keller character adorable. But hey, that's you and not everybody. If anything, watching Brainstorm made me hate Keller more than I would have thought possible.

In closing...nothing at all to do with Carson Beckett.

hedwig
November 25th, 2008, 08:09 AM
I gave Keller a chance, the same way I gave Woolsey a chance, but I love how RP has portrayed Woolsey, but I can't same the same for Jewel's portrayal of Keller. Her whinny voice has nothing to do with the writing and her portrayal of a doctor is dismal. My dislike of her has nothing to do with any other character. She gets worse in every episode and the fact the she was forced into the show when she was never needed doesn't endear me to her either.

She should have remained a supporting character and only featured when a doctor was required but shoving her in front and centre in these awful scenarios will never ever endear me to this character. If they had kept her in a supporting role maybe I could have handled the character a bit better. This forced relationship with zero chemistry between the characters is just the final straw.

I tend to agree with your comments about Keller. I think she should have stayed as a supporting character rather than a starring role. I don't think the writers handled her character at all well.

I don't, however, agree about Woolsey. I think they also failed to develop his character. I thought there would be a lot more conflict when he came to Atlantis, given his behavior with the SGC and his brief visits to Atlantis before being assigned as the commander. I feel his character became too passive(?) or even wimpy. And his "confrontational" behavior got left behind on earth when he was put in charge of Atlantis. I don't think people change that quickly just because they've been given command of something. But that's just my observation.:)

Linda06
November 25th, 2008, 09:24 AM
She is adorable, i loved her since Firefly. And i also think she is quite a great addition to the show. If she hadn't replace Carson people would 've been nicer to her.
I don't think anyone has anything else other than that against her. Winning? c'mmon, Zelenka won't even go on missions outside Atlantis....

Again not all of us hate her because of Carson....I blame her for taking away screentime from Teyla when Teyla didn't have enough screentime already......I was tired of Teyla being used as wallpaper and now Keller's here she's like the invisible woman now....Also because of this McKeller crap, it turns my stomach at every turn :S And the fact that the writers have turned her into superwoman who can seeminly do everything :mckay:

hedwig
November 25th, 2008, 09:33 AM
Again not all of us hate her because of Carson....I blame her for taking away screentime from Teyla when Teyla didn't have enough screentime already......I was tired of Teyla being used as wallpaper and now Keller's here she's like the invisible woman now....Also because of this McKeller crap, it turns my stomach at every turn :S And the fact that the writers have turned her into superwoman who can seeminly do everything :mckay:

I agree with the bits about taking screentime away from Teyla. I like Teyla way better than Keller, and thus far think Rachel is a far better actress. And I think it's really insulting to Rachel that Jewel actually got nominated for some award for "Missing" (I think) when Rachel actually had what I thought of as the more difficult role in that episode. I have nothing against the character of Keller or Jewel Staite, but I think Jewel's performances were pretty bland all the way through her appearances than Rachel's have ever been.

Anon
November 25th, 2008, 09:35 AM
For everybody reading, this is refering to brain storm

sinX
November 28th, 2008, 06:45 PM
I've always liked Keller except when she plays that wraith girl Ellia in "Instinct", she just seems kinda corny to me I guess?

November 29th, 2008, 06:44 AM
I also think they make a cute couple! I really enjoyed this episode and watching Rodney saving his girl..just warm fuzzies! The look of awe and wonder in Rodney's eyes when Keller told him how she feels... awwwwww!

I love keller!!! :)
they are an awesome couple!

Ganthet Jr.
November 29th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I liked the way they wrote her character for this episode, but they haven't shown any reason why Keller would fall for Rodney, so I don't quite believe this ship.

On a shallower note, who dresses Jewel? She's a pretty girl, but looked so frumpy in that dress-someone needs to tell her to stand up straight. And boots? With a cocktail dress at a black tie party???

I figure she fell for Rodney because she's practically the girl version of him, with just a tiny snippet more social know-how. She whines, she's weak, and she can be obnoxious... she IS She-Rodney. That's why they're perfect together. She was written to by whiney, she was written to fail in terms of everyday things. But, like Rodney, she saves the day while in an impossible pinch (medically, anyway). I felt this way from her very first appearance at the end of season 3. And when they revealed she'd be recurring in season 4, I knew right away they'd eventually put them together. It was obvious to me, I'm surprised I'm the only one lol.

The fact that they have the same flaws makes them sympathetic to each other. Also, this fact allows them to use each others strengths together, like in in "Brain Storm". In my mind, this ship makes more sense than Jack and Sam (which, by the way, I am also for).

Infinite-Possibilities
November 30th, 2008, 01:04 AM
I don't know if she's the "She-Rodney", her confidence is supposed to be the total inverse of his , at least to begin with.

I did get the funny image of Jennifer going "I am Jennifer. Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I held aloft my sword and said: For the honor of GrayskullAtlantis!" "I AM SHE-RODNEY!!!!"

nx01a
November 30th, 2008, 01:52 AM
Fabulous. Absolutely fabulous, darling.

Ganthet Jr.
November 30th, 2008, 02:09 AM
I don't know if she's the "She-Rodney", her confidence is supposed to be the total inverse of his , at least to begin with.

I did get the funny image of Jennifer going "I am Jennifer. Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I held aloft my sword and said: For the honor of GrayskullAtlantis!" "I AM SHE-RODNEY!!!!"

Yeah, I see what you mean. That leads me to a point I forgot... they have the same flaws, yet handle them in different ways, which also allows them to learn from each other. Rodney learns humility, and Jennifer learns confidence.

adamisme
November 30th, 2008, 10:25 AM
thats how I've alway seen it, Jennifer is the same of Rodney with a few more social skils

Finger13
November 30th, 2008, 10:35 AM
I'm amazed to see people starting to like her character more after this episode. I didn't mind the episode at all, and I don't mind Keller, but I cringed at the baby-making in the back of the plane. I was like "Ohh, Keller's going to drop another 5 points on GW because of this."

It's nice to see people saying something positive for once. I can understand people disliking her character, but when every scene of every episode that she is in spawns anti-keller threads for no reason, it's so annoying. Maybe they'll be diminished for the time being.

Ashimjara
December 1st, 2008, 05:59 AM
I think this epp strengthened her character quite a bit, but I never hated her anyway.

Lord batchi ball
December 1st, 2008, 09:21 AM
I guess I no longer view her a complete idiot, so thats pretty close to likeing her.

fumblesmcstupid
December 1st, 2008, 09:26 AM
:lol:

nx01a
December 1st, 2008, 04:31 PM
Ok, that's a bit much. :P
I never disliked her, just how she was portrayed sometimes. I love that she's shown to be strong and a competent doctor, and not above standing up to Ronon in terms of tactical decisions or shooting him down romantically. As for her awe at the size of hive ships, not being survival trained, and not knowing how destructive time/space bridges are, I blame the SGC for not preparing her enough... or I could blame her for not preparing herself enough for Pegasus. As for her love for Rodney... Sigh. What can you do? To err it human. :D

stargatelvr
December 2nd, 2008, 07:17 AM
I think it's because I'm a "If they (The team) don't have an issue. I don't have an issue" kinda person.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 08:51 AM
Ok, that's a bit much. :P
I never disliked her, just how she was portrayed sometimes. I love that she's shown to be strong and a competent doctor, and not above standing up to Ronon in terms of tactical decisions or shooting him down romantically. As for her awe at the size of hive ships, not being survival trained, and not knowing how destructive time/space bridges are, I blame the SGC for not preparing her enough... or I could blame her for not preparing herself enough for Pegasus. As for her love for Rodney... Sigh. What can you do? To err it human. :D

Well that's kind of a problem with this character. Why should the doctor be "standing up to" Ronon, the trained military man, on tactical decisions?She should have the sense to know when she's out of her element and follow orders. The same with BS. She didn't know what the confidentiality agreement even said, but pushed McKay to sign it anyway. She didn't know a thing about the space bridge, but tried to tell McKay what to do. Maybe she'd be better off sticking to what she knows and is trained for.

jenks
December 3rd, 2008, 09:04 AM
Well that's kind of a problem with this character. Why should the doctor be "standing up to" Ronon, the trained military man, on tactical decisions?She should have the sense to know when she's out of her element and follow orders. The same with BS. She didn't know what the confidentiality agreement even said, but pushed McKay to sign it anyway. She didn't know a thing about the space bridge, but tried to tell McKay what to do. Maybe she'd be better off sticking to what she knows and is trained for.

Because he's reckless, and puts peoples lives in dangers, as a doctor she's hardly going to keep quiet is she?

Crazedwraith
December 3rd, 2008, 09:21 AM
The idea that Ronon is a competent military man is frankly laughable. He's never demonstrated ability beyond being a brute berserker. Even he admits not doing anything beyond shooting or stabbing people.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 09:50 AM
Because he's reckless, and puts peoples lives in dangers, as a doctor she's hardly going to keep quiet is she?

Am I understanding you correctly? As a doctor Keller wants to preserve life and therefore will not remain quiet during a military mission. But that is exactly why you think that Ronon should listen to her when it comes to military matters?


The idea that Ronon is a competent military man is frankly laughable. He's never demonstrated ability beyond being a brute berserker. Even he admits not doing anything beyond shooting or stabbing people.

As laughable as the idea that Keller is a competent doctor? Maybe so, but that's what we're expected to believe as viewers. Ronon was trained in the military on Sateda and his survival for 7 years on the run proves his ability at understanding, eluding and fighting the Wraith. What is in Keller's background that has trained her to strategize, be knowledgable in hostage situations or give pep talks on the bridge of the Daedalus? If it were my life in danger, I'd much rather have Ronon try to rescue me than the timid little doctor with absolutely no military experience -- but that's just me.

Crazedwraith
December 3rd, 2008, 10:02 AM
I'd be fine with Ronon rescuing me from say a horde of wraith. The man's a very good fighter with swords, amazing quick draw and an accurate shooter.

In any other situation? No thank you. His only solution to any problem is to shoot something. In The Lost Tribe, that almost resulted in the Daedalus ramming helplessly into a planet. Great strategy there Ronon.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 10:39 AM
I'd be fine with Ronon rescuing me from say a horde of wraith. The man's a very good fighter with swords, amazing quick draw and an accurate shooter.

In any other situation? No thank you. His only solution to any problem is to shoot something. In The Lost Tribe, that almost resulted in the Daedalus ramming helplessly into a planet. Great strategy there Ronon.

So you're still on board with the doctor being the strategist in hostage situtations? Interesting. Although she does have lots of experience with hostage situations, it's usually at the other end of the gun. What does that actually qualify one for? Do they offer a doctorate in being a victim?

fumblesmcstupid
December 3rd, 2008, 10:54 AM
OOH wait for it....Identity!!

Yet ONCE AGAIN She gets Kidnapped (giggle) OMG!! She's almost as good at getting Kidnapped or put in a stupid pointless dangerous situation.. as Kenny from South Park is at getting killed!

OMG they kidnapped Keller....Why? I ask you why can't they just keep her?

Crazedwraith
December 3rd, 2008, 10:59 AM
So you're still on board with the doctor being the strategist in hostage situtations?
Have you been reading my posts? I've not been supporting Keller so much as dissing Ronon.

After all, he was down with shooting out the life support console until Keller stopped him. What was wrong with just removing the crystals and stashing them somewhere? So you know you could regain control of the ship once you've done in Todd?

Rodney dex
December 3rd, 2008, 10:59 AM
i love keller

atlantis-abydos
December 3rd, 2008, 11:03 AM
I really disliked Keller in the beginning, mainly because she replaced Carson, who was one of my favourites (as he was of many others) but I started to like her more and more, also because she was one of the reasons Carson was able to return fully...
Now I really can't say anything bad about her anymore - Jewel Staite is gorgeous and she plays her character really well, plus I think Keller and McKay make a nice couple [I obviously don't belong to the haters ^^ - though I prefer my McShep ;) ]
So all in all, the latest episode only made me like her more than I already do... I hope I make sense!

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 11:20 AM
OOH wait for it....Identity!!

Yet ONCE AGAIN She gets Kidnapped (giggle) OMG!! She's almost as good at getting Kidnapped or put in a stupid pointless dangerous situation.. as Kenny from South Park is at getting killed!

OMG they kidnapped Keller....Why? I ask you why can't they just keep her?

Keller's in peril? Again? :eek::eek: What a surprise! :eek::eek:

Would you keep her? I'm surprised they aren't paying Atlantis to take her back. :P


Have you been reading my posts? I've not been supporting Keller so much as dissing Ronon.

After all, he was down with shooting out the life support console until Keller stopped him. What was wrong with just removing the crystals and stashing them somewhere? So you know you could regain control of the ship once you've done in Todd?

Oh, I get that you dislike Ronon. That's quite clear. But the conversation started with Keller being praised for taking charge in a tactical decision when Ronon was there. You're still putting Keller's debatable intelligence and strategic skills over Ronon's. No matter how little you think of Ronon, I still can't see how you can justify a completely inexperienced physician taking over -- especially someone who's greatest experience seems to be in the area of being victimized and helpless.

Crazedwraith
December 3rd, 2008, 11:31 AM
I don't think she should be in charge but her attempts to temper Ronon were far from terrible. Her contributions in The Lost Tribe were: "hey about lets not blow up all these vital crystals" and then turning herself to give Ronon more time to do his thing and free the crew. Neither terrible tactical blunders.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 01:22 PM
I don't think she should be in charge but her attempts to temper Ronon were far from terrible. Her contributions in The Lost Tribe were: "hey about lets not blow up all these vital crystals" and then turning herself to give Ronon more time to do his thing and free the crew. Neither terrible tactical blunders.

I think the writers did a good job here of turning Ronon into a thoughtless brute with the intention of pointing out how this repels her and ultimately leads to true love with Rodney. In any other situation I don't think it would be advisable for an unskilled civilian to suggest the best action to take in a crisis is total inaction. If Keller had had her way in the first place, they would have complacently waited for the Wraith to come and find them. Failing that, she was convinced the best course of action was to turn herself and Ronon in to their Wraith captors. In how many situations would turning yourself in to the Wraith be the wise choice? And remember Keller had no idea what was really going on.

It just bothers me that Keller took it upon herself to question and criticize every move that Ronon made, when she is clearly unskilled in off-world situations. Why would it not occur to her that Ronon, a trusted member of Sheppard's team, shouldn't be the one in charge. What would be her reaction to people wandering into her infirmary and second guessing every step she made. "Are you sure you want to use sutures?... Maybe we should just sit here and wait to see what happens... Hold on, I don't think you should do surgery. What if you cause more harm?... Do you even know what you're looking for?" Yeah, that'd go over well. :rolleyes:

In this episode the writers needed Ronon to be wrong so Keller could be right -- even about things that she's been proven to be clueless about in the past.

Pandora's_Box
December 3rd, 2008, 01:26 PM
In this episode the writers needed Ronon to be wrong so Keller could be right -- even about things that she's been proven to be clueless about in the past.

Then again, destroying control panel should be so obviously wrong to just about everyone. If she hadn't said anything, she'd be just as bad as Ronon and there'd be yet another thing for people to hate her for.

Sigh....

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 01:33 PM
Then again, destroying control panel should be so obviously wrong to just about everyone. If she hadn't said anything, she'd be just as bad as Ronon and there'd be yet another thing for people to hate her for.

Sigh....

You're proving my point. Ronon isn't usually this bad. But how could Keller, with little knowledge of space ships (Ronon's got lots more experience on her here, even it is just as a passenger) have any meaningful input on what to do with the controls unless Ronon were written to be exceptionally careless and trigger happy in this episode.

jenks
December 3rd, 2008, 01:34 PM
Am I understanding you correctly? As a doctor Keller wants to preserve life and therefore will not remain quiet during a military mission. But that is exactly why you think that Ronon should listen to her when it comes to military matters?


No, I'm saying she won't keep quiet when Ronon is doing something reckless and putting peoples lives in danger, and as she is a doctor that is to be expected.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 01:44 PM
No, I'm saying she won't keep quiet when Ronon is doing something reckless and putting peoples lives in danger, and as she is a doctor that is to be expected.

But how is she the one to determine if Ronon is being "reckless" in a military situation? And isn't any military situation likely to put people in danger?

It just doesn't make sense to have a doctor, especially one who has little off-world experience where she hasn't been fleeing for her life, taken hostage, or following along with Sheppard's team to push her amazing Wraith drug. Suddenly she's the one to make judgment calls? Based on what?

jenks
December 3rd, 2008, 01:49 PM
But how is she the one to determine if Ronon is being "reckless" in a military situation? And isn't any military situation likely to put people in danger?

It just doesn't make sense to have a doctor, especially one who has little off-world experience where she hasn't been fleeing for her life, taken hostage, or following along with Sheppard's team to push her amazing Wraith drug. Suddenly she's the one to make judgment calls? Based on what?

Well most people on this forum can tell when he's being reckless, so I assume all it takes is a degree of common sense. The blasting the panel incident being the most obvious. Doctors criticising military men is hardly anything new, has everyone forgotten The Storm/The Eye already?

Crazedwraith
December 3rd, 2008, 01:52 PM
But how is she the one to determine if Ronon is being "reckless" in a military situation? And isn't any military situation likely to put people in danger?

It just doesn't make sense to have a doctor, especially one who has little off-world experience where she hasn't been fleeing for her life, taken hostage, or following along with Sheppard's team to push her amazing Wraith drug. Suddenly she's the one to make judgment calls? Based on what?

Aren't some basic lessons in 304 systems actually pretty standard for Atlantis personnel? (lessons that Ronon skipped out on) They all spend several weeks on the Deadelus travelling to get there and there isn't much else to do.

Keller would at least have an idea how its infirmary works for example.

Plus "yank out the crystals" isn't that difficult a concept. She didn't claim she had any idea which crystal to pull out, she just thought blasting random consoles wasn't a good idea. Considering that they control vital systems like life support. Again not really she needs the uber qualifications in supertech to figure out.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 02:28 PM
Well most people on this forum can tell when he's being reckless, so I assume all it takes is a degree of common sense. The blasting the panel incident being the most obvious. Doctors criticising military men is hardly anything new, has everyone forgotten The Storm/The Eye already?

Beckett criticized Ford and was told to knock it off and follow orders. Keller criticized Ronon and we're supposed to see that she's the level-headed one in the face of danger, the one making the sound judgment on military strategy? TPTB can turn Ronon into an idiot for an episode, but it doesn't make Keller any smarter.

I would have said that common sense would tell me to listen to the person with experience. When in the infirmary, listen to the doctor. When on a mission, listen to the team leader. When on a disabled space ship teaming with Wraith, listen to the experienced team member.

I guess this doesn't work in the world of Stargate.


Aren't some basic lessons in 304 systems actually pretty standard for Atlantis personnel? (lessons that Ronon skipped out on) They all spend several weeks on the Deadelus travelling to get there and there isn't much else to do.

Keller would at least have an idea how its infirmary works for example.

I had the impression that Teyla was given lessons as a favor because she expressed interest.

I don't really know why it would be standard training for Atlantis personnel in general -- maybe off-world teams. It doesn't seem like Stargate command would be anticipating that every random scientist being transported to Atlantis would require that training.

Eh, maybe she took lessons in her spare time in between stick fighting and weapons training.



Plus "yank out the crystals" isn't that difficult a concept. She didn't claim she had any idea which crystal to pull out, she just thought blasting random consoles wasn't a good idea. Considering that they control vital systems like life support. Again not really she needs the uber qualifications in supertech to figure out.

That wasn't Ronon's finest moment, as I've admittted before, but it still doesn't explain why she felt she knew best on other matters. (Besides, I like to think Ronon was just yanking her chain about shooting more panels).

And no matter what you think of Ronon, it sure doesn't explain why she needed to be in charge of morale on the bridge.

jenks
December 3rd, 2008, 02:36 PM
Beckett criticized Ford and was told to knock it off and follow orders. Keller criticized Ronon and we're supposed to see that she's the level-headed one in the face of danger, the one making the sound judgment on military strategy? TPTB can turn Ronon into an idiot for an episode, but it doesn't make Keller any smarter.

I would have said that common sense would tell me to listen to the person with experience. When in the infirmary, listen to the doctor. When on a mission, listen to the team leader. When on a disabled space ship teaming with Wraith, listen to the experienced team member.

I guess this doesn't work in the world of Stargate.


Ronon has about as much experience with taking control of space ships as Keller, ie zero. Ronon is reckless, it's part of his character, it's nothing new. Normally he has Shep to keep him in check, this time Keller had to intervene, if McKay had said something would you be criticising the writers for making him act responsibly?

CazzBlade
December 3rd, 2008, 02:51 PM
Ronon has about as much experience with taking control of space ships as Keller, ie zero.

No but he does have much more experience than Keller in dealing with the Wraith.

Cautious Explorer
December 3rd, 2008, 03:12 PM
Ronon has about as much experience with taking control of space ships as Keller, ie zero. Ronon is reckless, it's part of his character, it's nothing new. Normally he has Shep to keep him in check, this time Keller had to intervene, if McKay had said something would you be criticising the writers for making him act responsibly?


No but he does have much more experience than Keller in dealing with the Wraith.

Yes. Thank you. Ronon does have experience manning the weapons system on the Daedalus (not so successfully, but that's still more than Keller). Ronon has experience fighting intruders in Atlantis and on the Daedalus. Ronon has experience avoiding capture, escaping locked rooms, dealing with emergency situations (non-medical) and military strategy. Ronon has spent a considerable amount of time on the Daedalus, Wraith ships, puddlejumpers and spaceships in general.

Keller has spent a lot of time in the infirmary, being held hostage, fallilng in holes and generally being victimized off-world. She did spend some time falling in love on the Daedalus in an alternate reality, but that doesn't really count.

jenks
December 4th, 2008, 04:18 AM
Yes. Thank you. Ronon does have experience manning the weapons system on the Daedalus (not so successfully, but that's still more than Keller). Ronon has experience fighting intruders in Atlantis and on the Daedalus. Ronon has experience avoiding capture, escaping locked rooms, dealing with emergency situations (non-medical) and military strategy. Ronon has spent a considerable amount of time on the Daedalus, Wraith ships, puddlejumpers and spaceships in general.

Keller has spent a lot of time in the infirmary, being held hostage, fallilng in holes and generally being victimized off-world. She did spend some time falling in love on the Daedalus in an alternate reality, but that doesn't really count.

Ronon has experience killing Wraith, Keller has experience saving lives, but all of this is beside the point, it doesn't matter who has more experience in what, the point is Keller was in the right and Ronon wasn't. Because it's arguable that he's more experienced than her should she just act like a brainless drone and do whatever he says? Life isn't that black and white, she'd be a disgrace if she put lives in danger just for the sake of listening to the allegedly more experienced one, especially with her being a doctor. Experience doesn't necessarily make someone's judgement better than someone else's, in fact this case proves it, Ronon is flawed in ways that see to that.

Cautious Explorer
December 4th, 2008, 09:06 AM
Ronon has experience killing Wraith, Keller has experience saving lives, but all of this is beside the point, it doesn't matter who has more experience in what, the point is Keller was in the right and Ronon wasn't. Because it's arguable that he's more experienced than her should she just act like a brainless drone and do whatever he says? Life isn't that black and white, she'd be a disgrace if she put lives in danger just for the sake of listening to the allegedly more experienced one, especially with her being a doctor. Experience doesn't necessarily make someone's judgement better than someone else's, in fact this case proves it, Ronon is flawed in ways that see to that.

And yet you repeatedly point out that she is a doctor. She's trained to save lives in the hospital. It doesn't mean she's trained to know the best way to save lives in hostage situations or hostile ship boardings.

I don't think it's arguable at all that Ronon has more experience than Keller. He does. Keller started nagging and whining and second-guessing from the moment the doors locked. She didn't have the brains to listen to the person with experience. Experience may not always indicate who has the best judgment, but it sure helps. How do you pick a physician, a mechanic, a home contractor?

If the ship is in lockdown and it's crawling with Wraith, then no, the woman who knows about shots and sutures and likes to hand out sleeping pills is not my first choice in the line of defense.

jenks
December 4th, 2008, 09:38 AM
And yet you repeatedly point out that she is a doctor. She's trained to save lives in the hospital. It doesn't mean she's trained to know the best way to save lives in hostage situations or hostile ship boardings.

I'm not talking about her training, I'm talking about her mentality. Her first thought is to save the people on the ship, not kill the first thing that moves.


I don't think it's arguable at all that Ronon has more experience than Keller. He does. Keller started nagging and whining and second-guessing from the moment the doors locked. She didn't have the brains to listen to the person with experience. Experience may not always indicate who has the best judgment, but it sure helps. How do you pick a physician, a mechanic, a home contractor?

No, but she had the brains to question the reckless oaf that was putting everyone lives in danger.

maxbo
December 4th, 2008, 09:54 AM
I think the writers did a good job here of turning Ronon into a thoughtless brute with the intention of pointing out how this repels her and ultimately leads to true love with Rodney. In any other situation I don't think it would be advisable for an unskilled civilian to suggest the best action to take in a crisis is total inaction. If Keller had had her way in the first place, they would have complacently waited for the Wraith to come and find them. Failing that, she was convinced the best course of action was to turn herself and Ronon in to their Wraith captors. In how many situations would turning yourself in to the Wraith be the wise choice? And remember Keller had no idea what was really going on.

It just bothers me that Keller took it upon herself to question and criticize every move that Ronon made, when she is clearly unskilled in off-world situations. Why would it not occur to her that Ronon, a trusted member of Sheppard's team, shouldn't be the one in charge. What would be her reaction to people wandering into her infirmary and second guessing every step she made. "Are you sure you want to use sutures?... Maybe we should just sit here and wait to see what happens... Hold on, I don't think you should do surgery. What if you cause more harm?... Do you even know what you're looking for?" Yeah, that'd go over well. :rolleyes:

In this episode the writers needed Ronon to be wrong so Keller could be right -- even about things that she's been proven to be clueless about in the past.

You summarized a good deal of why I didn't enjoy The Lost Tribe. The writing was too heavy-handed - too forced to work for me. IMO, Keller was written in those scenes with Ronon to set the stage for her getting together with Rodney and to continue the process of redeeming her by trying to make her look brave - *oh, look, she's turning herself in to the big, bad Wraith - isn't she brave?* :rolleyes:.

To that end, Gero and company tried to paint Ronon in the worst possible light, which only served to make me dislike Keller even more.


Ronon has experience killing Wraith, Keller has experience saving lives, but all of this is beside the point, it doesn't matter who has more experience in what, the point is Keller was in the right and Ronon wasn't. Because it's arguable that he's more experienced than her should she just act like a brainless drone and do whatever he says? Life isn't that black and white, she'd be a disgrace if she put lives in danger just for the sake of listening to the allegedly more experienced one, especially with her being a doctor. Experience doesn't necessarily make someone's judgement better than someone else's, in fact this case proves it, Ronon is flawed in ways that see to that.

No, life isn't that black and white, but, unfortunately, to the writers of this episode it is. In the hands of skilled writers who didn't have an agenda to push (the epic Rodney&Keller romance :rolleyes:), perhaps those Ronon and Keller scenes could have been interesting instead of snooze-inducing.

Lucylee
December 4th, 2008, 10:28 AM
No, life isn't that black and white, but, unfortunately, to the writers of this episode it is. In the hands of skilled writers who didn't have an agenda to push (the epic Rodney&Keller romance :rolleyes:), perhaps those Ronon and Keller scenes could have been interesting instead of snooze-inducing.

These were similar to my thoughts on watching that episode, that they only made Ronon look like a bull in a china shop in order to have Keller disgusted by his behavior and choose Rodney. So it made me dislike her more because the writers were doing something negative to a favorite character (Ronon) in order to pursue their ship of choice and push forward their favorite new character, not actually to further Ronon's development in any way.

Showfan
December 4th, 2008, 11:38 AM
These were similar to my thoughts on watching that episode, that they only made Ronon look like a bull in a china shop in order to have Keller disgusted by his behavior and choose Rodney. So it made me dislike her more because the writers were doing something negative to a favorite character (Ronon) in order to pursue their ship of choice and push forward their favorite new character, not actually to further Ronon's development in any way.

My sentiments exactly and I found that to be absolutely insulting to the character of Ronon. Two big steps back in development for him, two baby steps ahead for Keller. I disliked Keller strongly before The Lost Tribe aired and afterwards I completely despised her. By Brainstorm she never stood a chance with me. And I'm not a shipper by any means. I didn't like the idea of Keller with Rodney or Ronon.

However, I have to say this isn't the first time IMO that the writers played this card. In The Shrine Rodney's friends, team and sister were made to look selfish and ignorant just so it could be shown that Keller really knew McKay best of all. Give me a break.

:sheppard::mckay::teyla::ronan:

Lythisrose
December 4th, 2008, 11:41 AM
However, I have to say this isn't the first time IMO that the writers played this card. In The Shrine Rodney's friends, team and sister were made to look selfish and ignorant just so it could be shown that Keller really knew McKay best of all. Give me a break.
:sheppard::mckay::teyla::ronan:

Another example: in Trio they made it out that Radek was wierd and kind of pervy, so that Keller and Rodney (and Carter) could bond.:(

fumblesmcstupid
December 4th, 2008, 11:46 AM
I really despised the whole bit

about how "Keller" said that Rodney would think it would be torture. to be back to narmal. THEN the TPTB turned around and had Rodney say the exact same thing! It made Sheppard and Jeanie out to be asses and Keller "amazing" cause she "KNEW" how Rodney would think!

I just stopped even trying to like her and now I loath her!

bluealien
December 4th, 2008, 11:47 AM
My sentiments exactly and I found that to be absolutely insulting to the character of Ronon. Two big steps back in development for him, two baby steps ahead for Keller. I disliked Keller strongly before The Lost Tribe aired and afterwards I completely despised her. By Brainstorm she never stood a chance with me. And I'm not a shipper by any means. I didn't like the idea of Keller with Rodney or Ronon.

However, I have to say this isn't the first time IMO that the writers played this card. In The Shrine Rodney's friends, team and sister were made to look selfish and ignorant just so it could be shown that Keller really knew McKay best of all. Give me a break.

The ptb are so desparate for us to like Keller that they are willing to destroy other charcters to do so... this was very apparant in the Shrine and why this ep was my final straw for the Keller character. I hated how the team behaved in the Shrine.. all so Keller could look like she was the only one who had Rodney's interest at heart .. gah!! By Brain Storm I could barely tolerate her so it's best if I just fast forward now over all her scenes...

Showfan
December 4th, 2008, 11:57 AM
Another example: in Trio they made it out that Radek was wierd and kind of pervy, so that Keller and Rodney (and Carter) could bond.:(

Yes, that ep and that scene in particular was the start of my extreme dislike.


:sheppard::mckay::teyla::ronan:

ciannwn
December 5th, 2008, 04:25 AM
I'm not a Keller fan but I liked her in this episode. I have no idea if I'll like her in the next episode she turns up in, though. This is how I feel about some of the other characters too. I can like Ronon in one episode and not in others. I can't stand Sheppard most of the time but there have been some episode where I've liked him.

It all depends on how a particular character is being presented in a particular story.

Showfan
December 5th, 2008, 05:31 AM
I'm not a Keller fan but I liked her in this episode. I have no idea if I'll like her in the next episode she turns up in, though. This is how I feel about some of the other characters too. I can like Ronon in one episode and not in others. I can't stand Sheppard most of the time but there have been some episode where I've liked him.

It all depends on how a particular character is being presented in a particular story.

That's interesting but for me it's different. I enjoy all the characters on Atlantis to varying degrees without any overt dislike with the exception of Keller. With each episode I waited for her to appeal to me but she never did and in the situations described above I actually grew to despise the character.


:sheppard::teyla::ronan::mckay: