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Skydiver
November 20th, 2004, 04:20 PM
I know Dana Jeane volunteered one of her fic, but it really isn't fair for her to be the first vic...er volunteer :)

The link below is to 'That'll be the Day', a fic i wrote and subbed to a zine.

It's set between Revelations and Redemption and is a run of the mill adventure fic

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/19/thatllbe.html

Have fun. Nit, pick, comment, whatever.

The only 'rule' of this thead is that you need to explain your comments. By that, if you want to say 'the story sucks'..fine. But you need to tell me why it sucks. Explain your opinion. On the other hand, if there was a part you liked, say why you liked it.

Skydiver
November 21st, 2004, 01:32 PM
Nothing? Nobody?

is it too long? Should i pick a shorter one? Or does someone want to pick a short one of mine?

You can pick someone else's if you want to, just have their permission please

Erik Pasternak
November 21st, 2004, 07:13 PM
Well, I read it. It's good. Can't really explain why, but you really seem to have the characters down pat.

Skydiver
November 21st, 2004, 07:16 PM
Well, I read it. It's good. Can't really explain why, but you really seem to have the characters down pat.

what didn't you like? Was there some part that just didn't work?

And trust me, you're not going to hurt my feelings or make me upset.

was there something that should have been done differently? Some scene that just didn't make sense?

Erik Pasternak
November 21st, 2004, 07:19 PM
I guess the one thing I don't like is that in some areas there's a lot of Sam/Jack closeness moments. It seems like it's getting very shippy, and I'm an anti-shipper. Most notably when Sam tells Jack that she has to find the ring.

Skydiver
November 21st, 2004, 07:32 PM
I guess the one thing I don't like is that in some areas there's a lot of Sam/Jack closeness moments. It seems like it's getting very shippy, and I'm an anti-shipper. Most notably when Sam tells Jack that she has to find the ring.

i can see where that would get at people. There were maybe a couple of places where i could have tried sam/teal'c. I think, at the time, i was writing a lot of sam/teal'c and realized that i was pairing them up a lot and trying to get out of that mold.

I think that was one thing that was tough with this, only having the three of them. You end up with either a group conversation or 2 and 1.

Dana_Jeanne
November 22nd, 2004, 02:37 PM
Well. This would have been one that I would normally by-pass for a couple reasons, the main one being: No Daniel.

I liked this story very much, and was almost in tears when they were remembering Jacob Carter, not to mention the ending with Daniel.

This is one I definitely could not have read during S6, "Meridian" still hurt too much. I like that you mentioned Daniel throughout.

Reading what Rocket said about seeing J/S ship in it, I was a little leery, but surprisingly enough, I didn't see it as ship. To me, it was simply an unhappy daughter finally feeling okay enough with her father's death to see his remains and find the wedding ring. I felt both Jack and Sam were in character for this.

So, from a story I wouldn't normally read because it had no physical Daniel, it's gone to a good story I'm glad I read. There's nothing in it that jumped out at me and said--ICK! :D

Although.. isn't clich spelled cliche? Had to find something!

I read another one of yours the other day that I liked a lot: PXXXX is a lovely planet (or something like that. I'm awful with remembering titles).

Dana Jeanne

Skydiver
November 22nd, 2004, 04:18 PM
Well. This would have been one that I would normally by-pass for a couple reasons, the main one being: No Daniel.

I can see that. And i know it's a stumbling block. I know folks that won't read fic that have pete in them, or won't touch a series of mine since it's Sam/OC. this could be a lesson in the importance of labeling fic :)




I liked this story very much, and was almost in tears when they were remembering Jacob Carter, not to mention the ending with Daniel.

This is one I definitely could not have read during S6, "Meridian" still hurt too much. I like that you mentioned Daniel throughout.


Thank you. I mentioned daniel a lot because that was another theme of it, dealing with their loss, and given that this wa set during that 3 month period, the wounds would be fresh



Reading what Rocket said about seeing J/S ship in it, I was a little leery, but surprisingly enough, I didn't see it as ship. To me, it was simply an unhappy daughter finally feeling okay enough with her father's death to see his remains and find the wedding ring. I felt both Jack and Sam were in character for this.



Ship is often in the eye of the beholder. I wrote it as two friends, dealing with their issues and with the added stress of survival. In some ways, the hug is a lot like the one in Death Knell. If you want to see it shippy, you can. But you can also see it as two old friends, and one comforting the other as they face another crisis, sam's impending death.



So, from a story I wouldn't normally read because it had no physical Daniel, it's gone to a good story I'm glad I read. There's nothing in it that jumped out at me and said--ICK! :D



LOL

that's good to hear.



Although.. isn't clich spelled cliche? Had to find something!


yep. it's a victim of the word putting in the little ' and text taking it out and me not catching it



I read another one of yours the other day that I liked a lot: PXXXX is a lovely planet (or something like that. I'm awful with remembering titles).

Dana Jeanne

p37296 was a lovely planet i think it was.

Yet another fic that suffered from a total lack of creativity when it comes to making up titles. It's been five years since i wrote 'a is for assassin' and i still haven't come up with a better title :)

Thank you Dana and Rocket. Anyone else? Any comment.
Or does someone else want to offer up a fic? Long or short (although i'm guessing either everyone is put off or this one is too long so shorter ones might be easier to look at)

Tok'Ra Hostess
November 22nd, 2004, 05:18 PM
Anyone else? Any comment.


Well, you asked....


You know I love your stuff, Skydiver, and that, AFAIC, you are one of the few who write Sam & Jack friendship honestly and well. Friendship is what I saw. :)

If there is one nitpick I would make it's the scene with Teal'c when he said he'd be going away to kill himself.

I thought that something so tragicly necessary should have been further developed, but it's like you forgot about Teal'c's plans, and let everyone just fall asleep after the rememberance ceremony for Jacob.

Jack never says die. Never. He says, "We're having a bad day," but he never gives up. The one time he tried to give up he was interrupted by a call to go on a suicide mission. He's never looked back, since, IMO. Sam, dying and always a bit of a fatalist(although compared to Jack, isn't everybody?:P), would accept Teal'c's decision, but not Jack, not til the snake lay dead and Teal'c was breathing his last breath.

Just my opinion. :)

Skydiver
November 22nd, 2004, 06:06 PM
Well, you asked....


If there is one nitpick I would make it's the scene with Teal'c when he said he'd be going away to kill himself.

I thought that something so tragicly necessary should have been further developed, but it's like you forgot about Teal'c's plans, and let everyone just fall asleep after the rememberance ceremony for Jacob.



good point. Maybe more should have been said, either to establish that jack wasn't going to give up, or that he'd given in, ala 100 days. I could have expounded on it more when jack's thinking about their imminent future, the fact that sam's got days, jack probably not much longer and the everpresent threat of junior

It probably got lost in one of two things....me being preoccupied with resurrecting Jacob, or my impatience with the end.

I have a bad habit of, if the fic gets too long, getting sorta bored with it and rushing the ending.

Tok'Ra Hostess
November 22nd, 2004, 06:34 PM
It probably got lost in one of two things....me being preoccupied with resurrecting Jacob, or my impatience with the end.

I have a bad habit of, if the fic gets too long, getting sorta bored with it and rushing the ending.

<nods> Thats what I put it down to. I was usually so tired of my fic by the end scenes that I'd have to shelve them for some time - maybe a week or two - over a month, I think, with Hidden One.

Still, I wish I had the energy and imagination to produce them the way you do! I always look forward to your fic. :)

Skydiver
November 22nd, 2004, 06:39 PM
<nods> Thats what I put it down to. I was usually so tired of my fic by the end scenes that I'd have to shelve them for some time - maybe a week or two - over a month, I think, with Hidden One.

Still, I wish I had the energy and imagination to produce them the way you do! I always look forward to your fic. :)


lol, i pretty much hit my zenith in s6. I swear i wrote a fic or two a week then. Lately, the ideas have been there, just not time. Or if i do have an idea, it's trying to find an original way of doing thing.

I liked hidden one, it's always been one of my favorite Sam fics. Right up there with 'the weather outside'

For the most part, i think i get 2-3 'good' sam fics a year.

Dana_Jeanne
November 23rd, 2004, 12:10 PM
I have a bad habit of, if the fic gets too long, getting sorta bored with it and rushing the ending.

I do the same thing, except I don't get bored, exactly, I get eager for it to end so I can see the finish line. If that makes any sense? I haven't written a long SG story yet (most of mine are in another fandom), but I'm part way through what is turning into a long one, and where I'm getting bored is in the middle.

DJ

Dana_Jeanne
November 23rd, 2004, 12:24 PM
Unless --was it meimei? over in the other thread--wants to post hers, we can do one of mine when we're done nitting Skydiver :D

Mine's at GW, extra brownie points for me!

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/secondchance.html

It was written after Meridian, and I've changed somewhat since then, so I'll be curious to see what you think.

Dana Jeanne

meimei
November 23rd, 2004, 02:14 PM
Skydiver's That'll Be The Day

I liked this story.

ETA: Spoiler tags... If someone hasn't read the story, I give away too much of the plot!!!

The plot itself was interesting. I liked the idea that they thought Jacob was dead. I was beginning to wonder if you had really killed him off until the wedding ring scene. Though the meaning of not finding it didn't seem obvious to Sam or Jack.

The characters were mostly "in character" as far as my understanding of them goes. I did have trouble with Jack's cold blooded murder of an unconcious Jaffa. I realize that with Jack's covert ops background that he would have that capability in him but I wasn't really prepared to see it (or read it). It also fit in with the "them or us" theme of the story but like I said I wasn't prepared for it.

I thought that Carter got a little too insubordinate too early. I could see it later on when they had been worn down by hunger, fatigue and dispair. The second day seemed a little too soon for her, though it could be attributed to grief for her father.

Okay, this is going to sound kind of stupid... I have a thing for how far into the mythology the writer goes into. I have a bad habit of "googling" names from an author's fic to see where they got there names from. Did you know that "Spegla" is a FTP software? LOL!

I loved the reference to the Duke! LOL! I have always pegged Jack as a John Wayne fan! The Duke will always be the best in my heart!

I liked the epilogue. Too often fics end too suddenly. "They were rescued. The end." I like to have a scene afterwards that finishes up the loose ends. That it included Teal'c's Ritual of Remembrance for Daniel was a nice touch.

All in all I really liked the story!

meimei
November 23rd, 2004, 02:21 PM
Unless --was it meimei? over in the other thread--wants to post hers, we can do one of mine when we're done nitting Skydiver :D

Mine's at GW, extra brownie points for me!

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/secondchance.html

It was written after Meridian, and I've changed somewhat since then, so I'll be curious to see what you think.

Dana Jeanne
You go for it first! You volunteered to be first anyway! I can wait... Have to decide which one to pick!

Dana_Jeanne
November 23rd, 2004, 03:54 PM
You go for it first! You volunteered to be first anyway! I can wait... Have to decide which one to pick!

LOL. Okay. I'm going to be gone over Thanksgiving, so have it while I'm stuffing myself with my sister's turkey!

DJ

Skydiver
November 23rd, 2004, 04:33 PM
Skydiver's That'll Be The Day

I liked this story.

ETA: Spoiler tags... If someone hasn't read the story, I give away too much of the plot!!!

The plot itself was interesting. I liked the idea that they thought Jacob was dead. I was beginning to wonder if you had really killed him off until the wedding ring scene. Though the meaning of not finding it didn't seem obvious to Sam or Jack.

** It didn't, unless you consider that it was pretty icky in there by then. charred body parts and gold melts at a low temp.

The characters were mostly "in character" as far as my understanding of them goes. I did have trouble with Jack's cold blooded murder of an unconcious Jaffa. I realize that with Jack's covert ops background that he would have that capability in him but I wasn't really prepared to see it (or read it). It also fit in with the "them or us" theme of the story but like I said I wasn't prepared for it.

**
I was aiming for the shock value, and it is a side of jack that we rarely see. We get a glimpse in Red Sky.


I thought that Carter got a little too insubordinate too early. I could see it later on when they had been worn down by hunger, fatigue and dispair. The second day seemed a little too soon for her, though it could be attributed to grief for her father.

**
she may have, especially for s5/6 fic. I was attributing it to grief and lingering anger over daniel.


Okay, this is going to sound kind of stupid... I have a thing for how far into the mythology the writer goes into. I have a bad habit of "googling" names from an author's fic to see where they got there names from. Did you know that "Spegla" is a FTP software? LOL!


**
I don't. I just made it up.


I loved the reference to the Duke! LOL! I have always pegged Jack as a John Wayne fan! The Duke will always be the best in my heart!


**
oh me too. I grew up on john wayne and i can see jack doing it too

I liked the epilogue. Too often fics end too suddenly. "They were rescued. The end." I like to have a scene afterwards that finishes up the loose ends. That it included Teal'c's Ritual of Remembrance for Daniel was a nice touch.


**
thanks. It had to have a 'warm and fuzzy' part. I still see at the end of revelations that, while jack did make a gesture (the dinner), it was fairly obvious that sam's invite was more of a 'hey we're going, wanna come?'. I didn't get the impression that they sought her out. And, if heroes is anything to go by, Jack has gotten better at facing things and his emotions, i still remember that it took sam nearly getting killed in revelations for him to have a bit of an awakening.

Maybe it made him realize that he was repeating the same thing that cost him sara...not facing his grief/emotions


All in all I really liked the story!

Thank you.

Triple bonus points if anyone gets the tv show that i loosely based this on. Its' based on one episode of a cancelled Sci-fi show

Skydiver
November 23rd, 2004, 05:19 PM
Okee dokee :)

well, i get to preface mine by saying that, normally, this isn't a fic i'd read. I'm not a huge fan of Daniel fic, and toss in there the j/d potentially slashy aspect, it would make it even more unlikely for me.

I did like the jack POV, because that is something we didn't really get from the eps. And it was an alternate universe ending that we also didn't see. I sure liked the nox a LOT better than ascension. Thanks to what happens in Full Circle, the wonderful gift of ascension is now little more than a trite plot device.

While the jack pov was interesting, i do think that he's a little over the top of my interpretation of canon. I don't see him quite this grief stricken or physically striking out. He's been a soldier for too long to let one person's death effect him this way. However, i think that it's implied in the fic that jack and daniel become close by the end...to the point of a relationship or not, they are close and this closeness might effect how jack reacts to daniel's impending death.


The perception of daniel also doesn't quite fit in with mine...but it's fairly obvious that i see him differently than you do :)
And the perception of daniel and his importance fits in with the grief issue. I know from experience, when my grandmother died, all of a sudden any and all anger at her faded adn only the good was remembered...and she was usually remembered in an exaggerated level of fondness.

I think if sam ever dies on the show we'll see a spate of fic that accentuates her importance to the sgc and all involved along with grief stricken jack.

There are a few mistakes in there, like nave instead of naive but over all, it's a good story. Not quite to my taste, however one that a daniel liker would probably enjoy, especially a HC/Whump fan

meimei
November 23rd, 2004, 06:47 PM
Dana_Jeanne’s Second Chance

Okay. This would have been one that I probably would have passed over based on the summary because Meridian was such a sad ep. I can barely rewatch that one… But I always felt that Jack was too calm about it. So the concept of his internal reactions is a wonderful idea.

I am not a big fan of AU… Which is silly to say because it’s not like Jack and Sam are getting it on in this universe and that’s what happens in many of my fics… So, in a way, mine are all AU. But taking an actual episode and doing an AU is really what I mean. I thought the story was going to end in line with the episode and I think that I would have liked it better that way. Jack’s turmoil in Meridian would have been a good direction to go but this is all my opinion! Please don’t be upset with me!!

I like your writing style! The way you describe the emotions, the abbreviated sentences to show hesitation and emotion. In most places, it’s easy to read and understand what you are trying to convey. That’s a big plus. Some writers go over board on some of the descriptive detail and you lose sight of the story itself.

I don’t see Jack as that externally emotional. Maybe punching the wall would be a bit far but I like the internal turmoil. That’s the way I have always pictured the character. Keeps his emotions in control and hidden deep. Not to say he’s not as emotional as the next guy, but doesn’t let it out. Not healthy…

And to finish up… Well, it seemed almost borderline slash in places. Or was that your intention? I don’t read slash fics about SG1. I can’t in a million years picture that kind of relationship between the men in SG1, any of them. So that did distract me a little. My mind would get off of the story and try to analyze your intentions.

Anyway, a good story but like I said the possible hint of slash threw me a little.

Dana_Jeanne
November 23rd, 2004, 07:49 PM
H/C Whump fan? Little ole me? :o


Okee dokee :)well, i get to preface mine by saying that, normally, this isn't a fic i'd read. I'm not a huge fan of Daniel fic, and toss in there the j/d potentially slashy aspect, it would make it even more unlikely for me.
I've had others tell me that was a slash story and yet SG is the fandom I don't write slash in. It's not 'there' enough for me. I think men can love each other as brothers and I was trying for that.


I did like the jack POV, because that is something we didn't really get from the eps. And it was an alternate universe ending that we also didn't see. I sure liked the nox a LOT better than ascension. Thanks to what happens in Full Circle, the wonderful gift of ascension is now little more than a trite plot device..
I'm not even going to get into how unhappy I am that ascension's basically been turned into a silly plot devise. Not. No. Shut me up somebody!

I wanted Jack's POV in there because I wasn't happy with his bedside goodbye in the episode. I really felt there should be more there from someone who was watching his supposed best friend die.


While the jack pov was interesting, i do think that he's a little over the top of my interpretation of canon. I don't see him quite this grief stricken or physically striking out. He's been a soldier for too long to let one person's death effect him this way. However, i think that it's implied in the fic that jack and daniel become close by the end...to the point of a relationship or not, they are close and this closeness might effect how jack reacts to daniel's impending death. ..
He's toned down from the first draft :rolleyes: and I agree, looking at it now, that parts were a little OTT. But, I think everyone has a breaking point, that place where they simply can't take it anymore and this was my "I've had it" spot for Jack. I'm working on a story that takes place during Evolution, and am having to work very hard not to get another OTT bit.


The perception of daniel also doesn't quite fit in with mine...but it's fairly obvious that i see him differently than you do :) .
Ya think? :D I'm going to have to read more of your stuff and see if I can work out what your Daniel is like.


And the perception of daniel and his importance fits in with the grief issue. I know from experience, when my grandmother died, all of a sudden any and all anger at her faded adn only the good was remembered...and she was usually remembered in an exaggerated level of fondness..
I know what you mean. Same thing happened with my dad. And I was very unhappy when I wrote this fic (my dad the same week Meridian aired) and it all came out in the story.


Not quite to my taste, however one that a daniel liker would probably enjoy, especially a HC/Whump fan
Thanks. It's not what I'd call a favorite but it had to be written at the time. Wouldn't shut up.

Now, I'm going to go hunt down some of your stuff to print out and take up to my sister's to read over Turkey Day.

Dana Jeanne

Dana_Jeanne
November 23rd, 2004, 08:01 PM
Dana_Jeanne’s Second Chance
I thought the story was going to end in line with the episode and I think that I would have liked it better that way. Jack’s turmoil in Meridian would have been a good direction to go but this is all my opinion! Please don’t be upset with me!! .
Of course not! The whole idea of this thread is exactly what you've just done!

Since I was 'fixing' Meridian to suit myself Daniel couldn't die. It probably would have been a better story, and if I wasn't so attached to Daniel (who is NOT real, reminds self...) then I probably would have had him ascend. No dead Daniels in my universe, though!


I like your writing style! The way you describe the emotions, the abbreviated sentences to show hesitation and emotion. In most places, it’s easy to read and understand what you are trying to convey. That’s a big plus. Some writers go over board on some of the descriptive detail and you lose sight of the story itself. .
Thank you. There are stories where you need a lot of detail, and I've written them in my other fandoms, but this was meant to be an internal story, and when people are watching someone they love die, they aren't seeing the big picture. Nor are they thinking in complete sentences. At least I don't in cases like this.


I don’t see Jack as that externally emotional. Maybe punching the wall would be a bit far but I like the internal turmoil. That’s the way I have always pictured the character. Keeps his emotions in control and hidden deep. Not to say he’s not as emotional as the next guy, but doesn’t let it out. Not healthy….
In retrospect, I don't see him as punching the wall emotional either. I think at the time *I* was the one who wanted to punch the wall, and felt that Jack better darn well do it, too. Again, though, I do think each person has a breaking point, and for me, or rather, Jack, this was his.


And to finish up… Well, it seemed almost borderline slash in places. Or was that your intention? I don’t read slash fics about SG1. I can’t in a million years picture that kind of relationship between the men in SG1, any of them. So that did distract me a little. My mind would get off of the story and try to analyze your intentions..
Is it because of the part where Jack admits he loves Daniel? Or the ending scene? It bugs me that men can love each other platonically, but won't admit it. It wasn't meant to be slashy, pre or otherwise :) even though it reads that way, apparently! I see the relationship between the two men as equals with both contributing evenly to thier friendship. Before Daniel cut his hair and grew up, I saw it more as a big/little brother relationship.

Thanks!!
Dana Jeanne

meimei
November 23rd, 2004, 08:38 PM
Of course not! The whole idea of this thread is exactly what you've just done!

Since I was 'fixing' Meridian to suit myself Daniel couldn't die. It probably would have been a better story, and if I wasn't so attached to Daniel (who is NOT real, reminds self...) then I probably would have had him ascend. No dead Daniels in my universe, though!


Thank you. There are stories where you need a lot of detail, and I've written them in my other fandoms, but this was meant to be an internal story, and when people are watching someone they love die, they aren't seeing the big picture. Nor are they thinking in complete sentences. At least I don't in cases like this.


In retrospect, I don't see him as punching the wall emotional either. I think at the time *I* was the one who wanted to punch the wall, and felt that Jack better darn well do it, too. Again, though, I do think each person has a breaking point, and for me, or rather, Jack, this was his.


Is it because of the part where Jack admits he loves Daniel? Or the ending scene? It bugs me that men can love each other platonically, but won't admit it. It wasn't meant to be slashy, pre or otherwise :) even though it reads that way, apparently! I see the relationship between the two men as equals with both contributing evenly to thier friendship. Before Daniel cut his hair and grew up, I saw it more as a big/little brother relationship.

Thanks!!
Dana Jeanne
I'm not really sure what exactly made me think slashy... I look at the relationship, especially in the early seasons as big bro/little bro, starting with the "spacemonkey" hug in The Serpent's Lair. Jack's frequent annoyance with Daniel just plays to the big bro role. Maybe I need to go back and read it again to try to give you something more specific.

And it's not the part about saying he loves him. My bros tell each other that all the time. We are a very close knit family. I have male friends that do it also. Maybe it's combined with the obvious external breakdown Jack's having. Put the two together and it seems like more than a brotherly love. But like you said, it was you using Jack for your own desire to punch a wall.

I wasn't part of an online fandom when I saw that ep. I had no idea they were going to kill Daniel off for real. And, although Daniel wasn't my fav character (that would be Jack!), I was shocked and cried like a baby! That ep is still hard to watch. (And I know it's not real!!) The acting by MS and the way the story played out is one of the best I've seen in Sg1.

I will go back and read it again. Maybe I can find a more specific way to describe it! But not tonight!! Ack!! It's 11:30 already!!

Now I have to decide which of mine to put up... Mine tend to be long... And most of them are naughty... (R or NC17) This could be a difficult thing to do!

Skydiver
November 24th, 2004, 04:28 AM
I think slash and ship is often in the eye of the beholder. In my fic..umm, sorry forgot who was first? Rocket??? read my jack/sam scenes as shippy, but no one else did and that wasn't how i intended it. (yeah, ok cept for those fic where it's massively obvious.....you know like when bodily fluids are being exchanged and there are direct mentions/declaration of affection) :)

Just the same as Dana's ending scene. i read it as potentially slashy, as did MeiMei, yet Dana didn't mean it that way.

perception is a tricky thing.

Now knowing the personal turmoil you were going through, more of Jack's attitudes make sense now. he was a bit of an extension for you and your feeling and maybe writing it was a cathesis for you. I wrote a fic where cassie's dog died because our dog died that same week adn it was my way to deal with it

Meimei did bring up a good point about the abbreviated sentences. sometimes to write fic, grammar goes out the window, specifically sentence fragments and occasionoal character grammar.

In one of my early fic, my beta criticized me for having daniel curse and use 'yeah', saying that a well educated man wouldn't do that....however if you watch the show, he does just that. Her perception varied from mine

Skydiver
November 24th, 2004, 04:39 AM
Ya think? :D I'm going to have to read more of your stuff and see if I can work out what your Daniel is like.


Dana Jeanne

I'm trying to think of one that i could tell you. I honestly don't write a lot of daniel. He's never been a character i could get a grasp on.

centre of attention focuses on daniel a bit (although it is a pretender crossover)

consequences and confirmations is a rather dark fic, which may not appeal to many. It explores a possible 'what if' had jacob healed daniel and, well it is dark and portrays daniel rather....darkly :) and certainly may not appeal

decisions made is daniel pov from past and present

ice dreams is a very, very silly fic

it's time is set early s3

one toetally embarrassing day...a silly challenge

perspective is a daneil fic, set post FIAD, and an early fic

retribution is another daniel pov, but it also might be a bit dark

Tok'Ra Hostess
November 24th, 2004, 04:45 AM
http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/secondchance.html

He knew this feeling, recognised it. It had crushed him when his son died; the second the doctor had said, "I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do."

It was sucking him into the same suffocating oblivion now, choking him, tossing dying stars in front of his eyes, filling his ears with the rushing noise of an angry ocean.

Now another doctor, standing in front of him, tears in her eyes as she choked out the same words, the same helpless, hopeless statement: "I'm sorry..."

He didn't want to hear it. He tuned it out, trying not to listen, to make it all go away, to make it Not True.

"...radiation...lethal dose "

This is Not Happening.

"... sorry. Nothing..."

No.

"...organs will disintegrate... drugs to help with the pain..."

Someone had a hold on his arm, was guiding him into a chair. He moved mechanically, he couldn't see, couldn't hear, couldn't breathe.

"Colonel..."

No.

"Sir...?"

God, Charlie. Damn it to hell, Daniel.

"Jack."


This is a FANTASTIC opening scene! You wrote a terrific hook, with an economy of words that pack a powerful punch.

For me, the opening paragraph of the opening scene is key to my reading the rest of the story.

Much as I may dislike bad grammar/spelling or (canon-wise)unrecognizable characters, if the writer can grab my attention with that first paragraph then s/he will likely keep my attention for the entire story.

BTW, this is a point that the "pros" stress: Spend a lot of time on your first page, because page one isn't a set-up for page two; it's the setup for the last page. (In this I think you could have done more - made that last scene between Jack and Daniel fit better with the opening(like a book-end). I agree with Jack when he said, "I don't do mush," but that's pretty much what (I thought)he was doing.

I call fic like yours "snack fic" because while I don't see either Jack or Daniel quite the way you portrayed them here, I just love your delicious prose. I eat that stuff up! :)

Skydiver
November 24th, 2004, 06:47 AM
Gracie has a good point. the almost 'flashback' kind of writing is easy to picture for teh author, but hard as heck to write. this kind of scattered stuff convays it well

because, when you're getting shocking info, that's how you process it, one word/image at a time

meimei
November 24th, 2004, 04:57 PM
Okay, here goes... I am putting one out there for nitpicking!! This story, The Things We Demand From Love, is Jack/Sam ship, rated PG13, set in early season seven, pre-Grace, spoilers for anything prior to that. It is the first story in a three story arc but it can stand alone. The next two stories are rated NC17. It was the second SG1 story I wrote, the third fanfic (Back to Reality, a SG1 story was first and then She Walks in Beauty, a ST: Ent fic.) It is not posted on GW because of the higher rating of the sequels.

It is a fairly long fic. 208 KB, 23.5k words. I don't really have any short works. I will understand if someone doesn't have time to read the whole story but would appreciate any feedback on parts they have time for.



The Things We Demand From Love (http://home.earthlink.net/~shiawmeimei/id22.html)

Dana_Jeanne
November 25th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Gracie, thank you :-) Snack fic is good <G>
Dana Jeanne

Skydiver
November 25th, 2004, 08:04 PM
hey mei mei

yep, i read it :)

over all, i thought it was pretty good. there were a few technical glitches, such as daniel being the conscious instead of conscience but it was mostly ok in the spelling and grammar area. there were a few abrupt POV changes, a part would start in jack's pov, then switch to sam's, then back to the jaffa's, then to jack....etc.

I loved the conflict and the position you put jack and sam in. even if the shippy aspects were taken out, i think it would have been a great dilemma, would jack kill to be kind? would he show mercy to a friend?

and then how would he deal with it?

I love fic that pushes the boundaries and asks the hard questions.

the set up was good, i liked the jaffa, kaveh. It's way too easy to make the jaffa nameless/mindless villians but you didn't do that. One thing that was missing could have been to have gotten some insight into the goauld other than 'he's mean and likes to torture'. Maybe a glimpse into what drives him, or a torture scene from his perspective.

I did like how you didn't go into all the gory details. I love a good HC fic, but i also don't need to read a laundry list of injuries or 10 pages of unremitting pain. it gets old and i start to gloss over.

my only other real quibble was jack and sam's behaviors. now, i know this is the beginning of a trilogy, and a trilogy that takes a shippy turn, so these characters need to be taken out of the bounds of the show. they need to declare/express thier feelings. However, i had a bit of a hard time with how effusive they were. Such as jack's infirmary vigil, or sam's emotional freedom. It doesn't quite fit into the stoic people we usually see.

that's not to say it's wrong, it's just not how i see them. then again, ask my friends, when i write a j/s ship fic, i spend half of it with those two tap-dancing around each other. one fic of mine is 20 pages instead of 10 because jack and sam refused to talk to each other like i wanted them to. :rolleyes:

It's hard to write what i'd call a believable sam/jack expression scene simply because, in 8 years, we have yet to see one so there is no guideline. And with no guideline, the author has to make things up.

it was a fun fic and i should go check out more of yours

meimei
November 25th, 2004, 09:46 PM
hey mei mei

yep, i read it :)

over all, i thought it was pretty good. there were a few technical glitches, such as daniel being the conscious instead of conscience but it was mostly ok in the spelling and grammar area. there were a few abrupt POV changes, a part would start in jack's pov, then switch to sam's, then back to the jaffa's, then to jack....etc.

I loved the conflict and the position you put jack and sam in. even if the shippy aspects were taken out, i think it would have been a great dilemma, would jack kill to be kind? would he show mercy to a friend?

and then how would he deal with it?

I love fic that pushes the boundaries and asks the hard questions.The idea for the fic started with Entity. The scene where Janet tries to tell Jack that it is time to let Sam go and that she had a living will. Janet didn't try to push it but Jack wasn't ready. I wanted to explore the idea of Jack having to make that decision.


the set up was good, i liked the jaffa, kaveh. It's way too easy to make the jaffa nameless/mindless villians but you didn't do that. One thing that was missing could have been to have gotten some insight into the goauld other than 'he's mean and likes to torture'. Maybe a glimpse into what drives him, or a torture scene from his perspective.

I did like how you didn't go into all the gory details. I love a good HC fic, but i also don't need to read a laundry list of injuries or 10 pages of unremitting pain. it gets old and i start to gloss over.. LOL! I actually had a few people say that I should have gone into more detail at least one time but the story didn't really end there. The sequel has more detail into what Sam was going through. The second story goes into Sam's recovery. And there is no MacKenzie!! I created a new shrink...


my only other real quibble was jack and sam's behaviors. now, i know this is the beginning of a trilogy, and a trilogy that takes a shippy turn, so these characters need to be taken out of the bounds of the show. they need to declare/express thier feelings. However, i had a bit of a hard time with how effusive they were. Such as jack's infirmary vigil, or sam's emotional freedom. It doesn't quite fit into the stoic people we usually see.Sam's emotional state stems from the issues concerning her torture that are dealt with in the second story and helps it make a little more sense. This was the case of a story out of control when it came to length! I try to end most of my fic in a spot where a sequel isn't necessary but can happen. Of course, trying to read the sequel without reading the first story would be difficult. This one ended up three parts. Of course, the rest of it gets real shippy... LOL! One of mine ended up six and I have had requests to continue it! Shippers are a voracious lot when it comes to shippy fics!!


that's not to say it's wrong, it's just not how i see them. then again, ask my friends, when i write a j/s ship fic, i spend half of it with those two tap-dancing around each other. one fic of mine is 20 pages instead of 10 because jack and sam refused to talk to each other like i wanted them to. :rolleyes:

It's hard to write what i'd call a believable sam/jack expression scene simply because, in 8 years, we have yet to see one so there is no guideline. And with no guideline, the author has to make things up.

it was a fun fic and i should go check out more of yoursThank you for your comments and taking the time to read it! I know I get long winded!! At least that's what my family tells me!

ETA: Ack!! I went back to check the "conscious instead of conscience" in that fic! I have edited that one extensively, removing most of the ship and ending it at the escape, so that I can submit it as a writing sample for the Fandamonium thingy and it was still there!!! ACK!!! Thanks for the tip!! I was going to mail it tomorrow!!

michelleb
November 27th, 2004, 07:19 AM
I guess it's my turn, as meimei keeps on telling me i should, despite my nervousness

It's a shippy fic, and it's been one of my most popular with readers...it's based around threads, while we still only had a vague idea of what threads was about

Mendhi, by Michelle Birkby

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1995162/1/

And the one meimei liked

If Only

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2083382/1/

meimei
November 27th, 2004, 09:12 AM
I guess it's my turn, as meimei keeps on telling me i should, despite my nervousness

It's a shippy fic, and it's been one of my most popular with readers...it's based around threads, while we still only had a vague idea of what threads was about

Mendhi, by Michelle Birkby

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1995162/1/

And the one meimei liked

If Only

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2083382/1/MichelleB's Mendhi

Yeah, Michelle!! You came over here! I have been making suggestions to the whole Shipper Thread and you are the first to listen to me… Hmmmm, what does that say about my influence in the Shipper Thread? http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon11.gifLOL!

Well, I have read Mendhi before but I just read it again to get in beta mode!!

I am spoiler spacing the plot comments since this relates to S8 Affinity & Threads in season eight.

I love the overall concept, the thoughts that Jack has about getting on with his life since Sam has moved on with hers. That’s how I see the whole Jack/Sam scene in Affinity. She never said, “I don’t know if I love Pete”. She just rambled on about “was it fair” and the whole “drop the kids off at daycare before heading through the gate”. She gave Jack no idea that she wasn’t happy with Pete, just that she was worried about, for the lack of a better word, the logistics of family life with the SGC. I think that when she asked him “what if it were different?”, she meant Charlie, but he meant them when he answered “I wouldn’t be here”.http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon9.gif

I also loved Daniel’s take on Jack... "He wished he was the stupid jackass Daniel had once thought him, then maybe this wouldn't have hurt him so much." It is so Jack and Daniel!

I liked Jack's logic of why he asked Kerry out. Sam was, in his eyes, moving on happily with Pete. Jack felt he needed to move on.

The "Now" vs the past few weeks was a nice touch. Since I had already read it, and I know what a fervent shipperhttp://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon10.gif you are, I knew it had to be Jack examining the mendhi on Sam's hand. But someone less familiar with your proclivities http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon10.gifcould think, by the park scene, that it was with Jack and Kerry or Pete and Sam.

Now, for the technicalities… A few misspellings, grammatical and punctuation points and my obsessive-compulsive use of formatting!

Parenthetical use. You use it to represent the characters thoughts a couple of times. I usually use italics or single quotes to represent thoughts but it didn’t really take away from the story. It’s just my OCD kicking in. In some places, I didn’t think that a change in format or parenthesis use was required. The paragraph was already the character’s thoughts. Ex. (ok, she'd told Daniel, who'd told him.) The paragraph was already exclusively the characters thoughts so I thought the parentheses were unnecessary.

If you are interested in the little nit picks on the spelling, grammar and punctuation, let me know and I will PM or email. What word processing program do you use? I have MS Word and I turn on the spelling and grammar check to its highest parameters. It helps me catch many things that would be easily missed, not everything, but most. And then again, sometimes I ignore it in favor of artist license. You use a lot of sentence fragments that would drive the grammar check to distractionhttp://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/uncertain.gif but they work because of the subject matter.

Overall I thought it was an excellent story and a very good speculation!http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon14.gif

Skydiver
November 27th, 2004, 09:52 AM
I enjoyed the story. There were parts that didn't ring true with me, but i honestly think that's all me and my pickyness, not any fault with the story.

I like the portrayal of Jack as an honorable man who will step aside, because that is how i see him. in my interpretation of him, he'd rather see someone he loves happy without him than unhappy with him

the symbolism of the mendhi is neat and a nice part of the story. I'm not quite sure if AF regs would agree but what the heck, it's a story not real life :)

I also liked how pete wasn't evil incarnate. I'm not quite ready to invite him over for sunday dinner but i also don't agree with the pete is a psycho characterizatin either

meimei
November 27th, 2004, 10:12 AM
I enjoyed the story. There were parts that didn't ring true with me, but i honestly think that's all me and my pickyness, not any fault with the story.

I like the portrayal of Jack as an honorable man who will step aside, because that is how i see him. in my interpretation of him, he'd rather see someone he loves happy without him than unhappy with him

the symbolism of the mendhi is neat and a nice part of the story. I'm not quite sure if AF regs would agree but what the heck, it's a story not real life :)

I also liked how pete wasn't evil incarnate. I'm not quite ready to invite him over for sunday dinner but i also don't agree with the pete is a psycho characterizatin either
I liked that Pete wasn't evil either. I wrote him a couple of times and it was very hard to do! I don't like Pete cause I don't want him with Sam. I also think that he was written badly in Chimera. I tried to portray the things he'd done as being from a genuine love for Sam. But it was the hardest part of the fic to write!

Skydiver
November 28th, 2004, 05:20 PM
Someone else have a story?
or do we want to put up second helpings???
Or anyone have a favorite author they would like to ask for permission to talk about their fic here?
I think this is a great discussion and i'd hate to see it end

ShimmeringStar
November 28th, 2004, 06:22 PM
Someone else have a story?
or do we want to put up second helpings???
Or anyone have a favorite author they would like to ask for permission to talk about their fic here?
I think this is a great discussion and i'd hate to see it end
I might put my 'firstborn' up to get chopped in half, uhhh, I mean critiqued... But it's out being beta'd at the moment, so... I have an 'out' for a few more days.... :o :p :D

meimei
November 28th, 2004, 06:38 PM
Someone else have a story?
or do we want to put up second helpings???
Or anyone have a favorite author they would like to ask for permission to talk about their fic here?
I think this is a great discussion and i'd hate to see it end
Okay, I'll put up another... I think it my only other PG13! It's shippy (Jack/Sam)! It started from a convo in chat that Sam needed another crack in the head to come to her senses... So I did just that! It's really kinda fluffy... LOL! Spoilers through season eight.


I Will Remember You (http://home.earthlink.net/~shiawmeimei/id86.html)







P.S. ShimmeringStar, I will be watching for yours!! LOL! You have a really slow beta, you know!!

ShimmeringStar
November 28th, 2004, 06:59 PM
P.S. ShimmeringStar, I will be watching for yours!! LOL! You have a really slow beta, you know!!

:D Since she has it waiting in line behind yours... I shan't say a word, 'cept that I understand Beta has had a busy RL this week... And there was the holiday.... And then there's that dental work she had... And her 19th wedding anniversary... :rolleyes: :D

Dana_Jeanne
November 29th, 2004, 11:53 AM
Someone else have a story?
or do we want to put up second helpings???
Or anyone have a favorite author they would like to ask for permission to talk about their fic here?
I think this is a great discussion and i'd hate to see it end

SueS who wrote The Last Temptation (among others). I really like her stuff.
Jkrickit is another favorite.

Dana Jeanne

SueS
November 29th, 2004, 01:24 PM
I'd be curious to know what you guys think of The Last Temptation.

Well, I'm off to finish reading the other stories recced here and come back with my comments on them.


Oops almost forgot The Last Temptation can be found here:

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/12/thelast.html



SueS

Dana_Jeanne
November 29th, 2004, 02:25 PM
I'd be curious to know what you guys think of The Last Temptation. Well, I'm off to finish reading the other stories recced here and come back with my comments on them.
Oops almost forgot The Last Temptation can be found here:
http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/12/thelast.html
SueS

So we have "I will remember you" and then sue's "The Last Temptation."

I will wait patiently until everyone is done with "I will remember you" (I don't read ship, I'm sorry!) and then I will unleash myself on Sue and The Last Temptation! :D

Dana Jeanne

SueS
November 29th, 2004, 03:54 PM
The link below is to 'That'll be the Day', a fic i wrote and subbed to a zine.

It's set between Revelations and Redemption and is a run of the mill adventure fic

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/19/thatllbe.html

Have fun. Nit, pick, comment, whatever.



Good story. One thing I would have like to have seen developed more was
Spoiler: the team's, especially Sam's, reaction to Jacob's "death". You did get into to it towards the end of the story, and you did a good job of it, but near the beginning of the story it seemed as though there was very little exploration of Carter's reaction to her father's death, and I think there should have been more.

It could be done several ways. Perhaps showing Jack or Teal'c POV of how they think it has effected Carter's behavior. Or something else you might like to try ...

I took a creative writing class once where the teacher had us describe a frozen lake from the POV of a character who knew there was a body at the bottom of the lake, but you couldn't use this fact in the description. The idea behind the exercise was that someone who knew there was a body at the bottom of the lake would see it differently than someone who thought it was just a frozen lake.

So, putting this in the contexts of your story ... describe the planet or crash site from Sam's POV.


SueS

meimei
November 29th, 2004, 05:07 PM
So we have "I will remember you" and then sue's "The Last Temptation."

I will wait patiently until everyone is done with "I will remember you" (I don't read ship, I'm sorry!) and then I will unleash myself on Sue and The Last Temptation! :D

Dana Jeanne
Don't wait on that! LOL!! It doesn't matter what order! I was just trying to keep the thread going! Go ahead with Sue's! I won't be offended!!

So you are a tough nut non-shipper.... I guess I might have to try non-ship one of these days just to get your opinion! LOL! Is it just J/S ship or all ship?

SueS
November 29th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Unless --was it meimei? over in the other thread--wants to post hers, we can do one of mine when we're done nitting Skydiver :D

Mine's at GW, extra brownie points for me!

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/secondchance.html

It was written after Meridian, and I've changed somewhat since then, so I'll be curious to see what you think.

Dana Jeanne

Oh Dana Jeanne, I really enjoyed this story. There are so many little touches that made this story come to life for me (e.g. the broken glasses).

I read the other comments about Jack acting OTT. I can see where they are coming from. However, he didn't go OTT in public. He did it in private, and he wasn't even aware of his actions. So, I didn't see him as going too OTT. And if you look at it in the context of Jack and Daniel's relationship - Jack had seen Daniel die, how many times already? And now, not only was Jack watching Daniel die, but it was an extremely horrendous, painful death, and there was nothing Jack could do about it. So, having Jack "snap" in the way you portrayed is believable, IMO.

The one problem I had with the story is with Daniel. And this is probably a rotten thing to say about a dying man, but he seemed a bit whiny when he was talking with Lya. It was the bit about - Jack doesn't listen to me. I had a hard time believing that Daniel would base his life or death decision on an assumption that Jack doesn't listen to him. Perhaps if you had made it a more universal - "I try, but they don't listen" - i.e. the academic community, the aliens we've met, the people at the SGC, SG-1, Jack, etc, it would've played out better for me and the enormity of his decision would have been heavier.


SueS

michelleb
November 30th, 2004, 03:39 AM
]The "Now" vs the past few weeks was a nice touch. Since I had already read it, and I know what a fervent shipperhttp://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon10.gif you are, I knew it had to be Jack examining the mendhi on Sam's hand. But someone less familiar with your proclivities http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon10.gifcould think, by the park scene, that it was with Jack and Kerry or Pete and Sam.[/font]

thnaks. it was supposed to be confusing 'who's he actually with' but you're right, anyone who knew me would know i'd never write it to be someone else. but teh strangers would have been sucked in...


Now, for the technicalities… A few misspellings, grammatical and punctuation points and my obsessive-compulsive use of formatting

you know what's really annoying about the spelling? i have the spell check on. i reread at least three times. i double and triple check everything..but still, there's always some stupid mistake i never notice until i post it, and it's beyond redemption. it always really annoys me.



Parenthetical use. You use it to represent the characters thoughts a couple of times. I usually use italics or single quotes to represent thoughts but it didn’t really take away from the story.



i did used to use italics, but for a while, italics wouldn't work on fanfic.net, i'd have to go through and reitalise everything.


[quote]. (ok, she'd told Daniel, who'd told him.) The paragraph was already exclusively the characters thoughts so I thought the parentheses were unnecessary.



i'll cut down..though i'm slightly addicted to them!!!



If you are interested in the little nit picks on the spelling, grammar and punctuation, let me know and I will PM or email. What word processing program do you use? I have MS Word and I turn on the spelling and grammar check to its highest parameters. It helps me catch many things that would be easily missed, not everything, but most. And then again, sometimes I ignore it in favor of artist license. You use a lot of sentence fragments that would drive the grammar check to distraction

yes, i'd be interested to hear them..though i caught the ages/edges one. i turned the grammar off, cos it hates my style, with a passion. the entire fanfic would be scattered with wavy green lines. i do write fragments, but that's because i try to write the way people think, or talk, and that tends to be in fragments.

thanks meimei, that was relatively painless. I was dreading the first review!!!

michelleb
November 30th, 2004, 03:41 AM
the symbolism of the mendhi is neat and a nice part of the story. I'm not quite sure if AF regs would agree but what the heck, it's a story not real life :)

you see, when i wrote this, i'd just got mendhi done on my hand, and that was what inspired me. but you're right about the regs..i just ignored them.



I also liked how pete wasn't evil incarnate. I'm not quite ready to invite him over for sunday dinner but i also don't agree with the pete is a psycho characterizatin either

well, while i do enjoy thinking up new and interesting ways to kill pete, i don't think he's evil either. annoying, and wrong for sam, but not evil. unfortuntely.

Dana_Jeanne
November 30th, 2004, 09:25 AM
Don't wait on that! LOL!! It doesn't matter what order! I was just trying to keep the thread going! Go ahead with Sue's! I won't be offended!!

So you are a tough nut non-shipper.... I guess I might have to try non-ship one of these days just to get your opinion! LOL! Is it just J/S ship or all ship?

LOL, technically I guess you could call me a noromo, as I don't like any ship, but while I truly have a deep, abiding, er...dislike for S/J, I'm of the opinion that whatever makes one happy--go for it ;) Daniel/Shau'ri is exempt from that as long as it's pre-CotG or a mirror universe.

Okay, I'll go give Sues my nit and pick!

Dana jeanne

Dana_Jeanne
November 30th, 2004, 09:30 AM
The one problem I had with the story is with Daniel. And this is probably a rotten thing to say about a dying man, but he seemed a bit whiny when he was talking with Lya. It was the bit about - Jack doesn't listen to me. I had a hard time believing that Daniel would base his life or death decision on an assumption that Jack doesn't listen to him. Perhaps if you had made it a more universal - "I try, but they don't listen" - i.e. the academic community, the aliens we've met, the people at the SGC, SG-1, Jack, etc, it would've played out better for me and the enormity of his decision would have been heavier.
SueS

Glad you liked it :) Thanks!

Yeah, I was afraid he might come across as a bit whiney. As he was 'speaking' in my head, it was a tired-of-it-all voice, rather than a whine, but I couldn't quite make that clear. As I was writing it I was thinking of "The Other Side," "Menace," um... the one with Lotan and the Enkarens, the episodes where Jack and Daniel seemed so horribly out of touch with each other and it seemed Daniel was just hitting his head against a brick wall.

"I try, but they don't listen" probably would have played out better :D but I was trying for this to be a Jack-Daniel "battle."

Dana Jeanne

Skydiver
November 30th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Good story. One thing I would have like to have seen developed more was
Spoiler: the team's, especially Sam's, reaction to Jacob's "death". You did get into to it towards the end of the story, and you did a good job of it, but near the beginning of the story it seemed as though there was very little exploration of Carter's reaction to her father's death, and I think there should have been more.


good point. and you're right, it probably could have benefitted from sam's pov at some point.

i'm trying to think, i don't think after she finds out what's in the teltac, we don't get her pov again until the end

SueS
December 1st, 2004, 11:44 AM
Don't wait on that! LOL!! It doesn't matter what order! I was just trying to keep the thread going! Go ahead with Sue's! I won't be offended!!

So you are a tough nut non-shipper.... I guess I might have to try non-ship one of these days just to get your opinion! LOL! Is it just J/S ship or all ship?


I have to confess, I'm in the same boat as Dana Jeanne. I'm a non-shipper, a non-J/S shipper. The biggest problem I have with S/J ship aside from the regs is I just don't see it. Not even when they try to put up big neon signs saying "here it is!" I don't think I'm completely noromo because I can see potential in a Sam/Daniel relationship or, until they did the unthinkable and killed off Janet, a Janet/Daniel relationship. I'm also a big fan of the canon relationships - Daniel/Sha're and Sam/Pete.

However, in the interest of science and fair play, I decided to read "I Will Remember You."

First, one little technicality - I noticed a tendency for the POV to jump around a bit which made it somewhat confusing at times. I think this story needed to be told from both Jack and Sam's POV, but instead of jumping from one POV to another within a section, switch POV's when you create a new section.

Now for the story itself. I have to tell you, because I am a non-S/J shipper, I had a very hard time getting through this story (this was the first S/J shipper story I've ever read). I saw characters named Sam, Jack, Daniel and Teal'c, but I didn't see the Sam, Jack, Daniel and Teal'c I know. IOW, the characters in this story seemed out of character. I had a hard time believing the Jack or Sam I know would act this way.

Chances are, I won't be reading any more S/J ship stories.


BTW, I feel the same was about slash - i.e. I won't read slash because IMO, the only way to make this kind of relationship work is to take the characters I know and change them into someone or something else.


SueS

meimei
December 1st, 2004, 02:46 PM
I have to confess, I'm in the same boat as Dana Jeanne. I'm a non-shipper, a non-J/S shipper. The biggest problem I have with S/J ship aside from the regs is I just don't see it. Not even when they try to put up big neon signs saying "here it is!" I don't think I'm completely noromo because I can see potential in a Sam/Daniel relationship or, until they did the unthinkable and killed off Janet, a Janet/Daniel relationship. I'm also a big fan of the canon relationships - Daniel/Sha're and Sam/Pete.

However, in the interest of science and fair play, I decided to read "I Will Remember You."

First, one little technicality - I noticed a tendency for the POV to jump around a bit which made it somewhat confusing at times. I think this story needed to be told from both Jack and Sam's POV, but instead of jumping from one POV to another within a section, switch POV's when you create a new section.Someone else had mentioned this before and I have started putting dividers when I change POV's. I haven't had time to edit all of my stories on the website yet.


Now for the story itself. I have to tell you, because I am a non-S/J shipper, I had a very hard time getting through this story (this was the first S/J shipper story I've ever read). I saw characters named Sam, Jack, Daniel and Teal'c, but I didn't see the Sam, Jack, Daniel and Teal'c I know. IOW, the characters in this story seemed out of character. I had a hard time believing the Jack or Sam I know would act this way. I have had people tell me that Sam is acting out of character, but that was deliberate. When I was researching different information on the web about amnesia I read an article that talked about amnesia victims often don't act in character because a lot of it is learned behavior. If you can't remember what you learned, you act differently. I wanted her acting on an emotional level only since she couldn't remember her learned behaviors.

As far as the others, if you don't see ship then we don't see the characters the same way so it would be hard for you to recoginize my take on them. So that is understandable. Everyone's perception is different but equally valid.http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon10.gif


Chances are, I won't be reading any more S/J ship stories.


BTW, I feel the same was about slash - i.e. I won't read slash because IMO, the only way to make this kind of relationship work is to take the characters I know and change them into someone or something else.


SueSI feel the same way that you do about slash as you do. Although, you don't like J/S ship, I appreciate you taking the time to read the story and respond. I haven't had time to check yours out yet. RL gets in the way of my obsessions. I will get to it soon! Again, thanks for participating.http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/icon10.gif

Skydiver
December 1st, 2004, 05:17 PM
ignore this....carry on folks.

meimei
December 1st, 2004, 06:16 PM
ignore this....carry on folks.
ROTFLMAO!!!!

Okay, I'll ignore it now!! I was so confused, cause it kinda sounded like you read mine....

*Mei Mei wandered off to reread her own story... "Car? What car???*

Skydiver
December 1st, 2004, 06:24 PM
i thought i had. it's odd. i read one last night where sam didn't remember...it was an au ending to desp meas. and i thought it was yours since folks were talking about the amnesia.

then i saw the fic title of the other one and realized that it was a different fic and.....oops :D

i'm hoping to have time to read it. works' been crazy and with christmas shopping in the evening, i haven't had much time lately

Skydiver
December 2nd, 2004, 05:52 PM
ok, read 'i will remember' for real this time:)

I thought it was ok. There were times when i found the 'sam has amnesia' a bit of a cliche, and jack's behavior was definitely more 'fic jack' than 'show jack'

doesn't mean it's bad, because it isn't at all. It's a nice fuzzy ship fic. there were just times when i couldn't quite hear the characters' voices. Sam was a lot bouncier than show sam. And Jack was more demonstrative than show jack. Of course, these are fic characterizations...and sam has amnesia, so that excuses some of her actions

I did think that daniel and Teal'c were good. I liked the 'two brothers' attitude. There's not much to do with brightman simply because we barely know her.

I do like that Pete wasn't a jerk. I think that's getting to be a pet peeve of mine, pete being the endless nut job.

all in all, it's a nice fuzzy sam/jack happy ending fic :)

Dana_Jeanne
December 2nd, 2004, 07:37 PM
Sues' "The Last Temptation."

I actually read this twice, because I didn't quite 'get it' the first time. To start with, let me say I liked it very much; this is my Jack and Daniel (and Carter and Teal'c), pretty much exactly as I see them also.

"Because I'm the Col and I give the orders." How many of us, tired of WHY, MOMMY? finally give way to "because I said so!"? :D

I did have a bit of difficulty seperating the "two" Daniels and keeping straight what was happening, even though the 'white' Daniel was in italics. I think I would have liked to know this was a post-descension story from the beginning, as it would have made more of an impact for me since the team had already been through Meridian and now this was happening.

I know some won't agree with me, but I'm glad you had Jack being as outwardly emotional as you did. Everyone has thier breaking point and he'd reached his.

The ending... oh, man, I wanted to shoot Samuels! My god, what an unfeeling unprintable word he is! I don't know how Jack managed to keep from ringing his slimy neck.

I could feel everything. My heart broke when Jack was yanked back and Daniel was left alone. You showed the trust Daniel has for Jack perfectly in that one tiny section about holding on to hope and blind faith.

You have a wonderful way with words, everything is 'real.' I know exactly what something smells like, sounds like and so on.

Good Story, even though I did have a little trouble at first keeping things straight.

Dana Jeanne

SueS
December 3rd, 2004, 03:10 PM
I did have a bit of difficulty seperating the "two" Daniels and keeping straight what was happening, even though the 'white' Daniel was in italics. I think I would have liked to know this was a post-descension story from the beginning, as it would have made more of an impact for me since the team had already been through Meridian and now this was happening.

One of my concerns when writing this story was would people be able to distinquish the two storylines. I put the "white" Daniel story in italics as a way to distinguish the two. As far as letting people know right from the start that this was a post-descension story, in retrospect perhaps I could have done something in the opening scene. Perhaps while walking back towards the gate Jack could've muttered something like "You'd think spending a year on a higher plane of existence ... Teal'c get us out of here."



I know some won't agree with me, but I'm glad you had Jack being as outwardly emotional as you did. Everyone has thier breaking point and he'd reached his.


Thanks. I was a little worried that I might've made Jack a little too emotional near the end, but the guy had been through the wringer and it would've been odd if he hadn't acted emotionally.



The ending... oh, man, I wanted to shoot Samuels! My god, what an unfeeling unprintable word he is! I don't know how Jack managed to keep from ringing his slimy neck.


You know, originally, I had the story ending with Jack rescuing Daniel by talking him out of the situation and the two of them "walking through the gate" and ending up in the infirmary. But then I thought, this needs something more. It needs more suspense. Also, I wanted Daniel to be instrumental in his own rescue. I'm not a big fan of stories where Daniel sits around waiting to be rescued. So, I created this whole scenario where Jack is just about to rescue Daniel and he's suddenly pulled away.



I could feel everything. My heart broke when Jack was yanked back and Daniel was left alone. You showed the trust Daniel has for Jack perfectly in that one tiny section about holding on to hope and blind faith.

You have a wonderful way with words, everything is 'real.' I know exactly what something smells like, sounds like and so on.

Thank you so much. I really strive to put the reader in the situation - i.e. make them feel what the characters are feeling, so sometimes I'll rewrite a paragraph or sentence several times before I come across the right combination of words that will put the reader in the middle of the scene. Glad to know it's working.

Thanks.

SueS :)

Dana_Jeanne
December 3rd, 2004, 04:01 PM
You know, originally, I had the story ending with Jack rescuing Daniel by talking him out of the situation and the two of them "walking through the gate" and ending up in the infirmary. But then I thought, this needs something more. It needs more suspense. Also, I wanted Daniel to be instrumental in his own rescue. I'm not a big fan of stories where Daniel sits around waiting to be rescued. So, I created this whole scenario where Jack is just about to rescue Daniel and he's suddenly pulled away.

I'm very glad you didn't do it this way! It made for a more powerful ending and showed the trust Daniel has for Jack--and the friendship between the two--much better. The ending you had originally thought of would have been very bland, and would have made this simply another Daniel-gets-in-trouble-Jack-rescues-him story. Instead, it's a touching story about two equal friends.

Dana Jeanne

SueS
December 5th, 2004, 01:20 PM
I'm very glad you didn't do it this way! It made for a more powerful ending and showed the trust Daniel has for Jack--and the friendship between the two--much better. The ending you had originally thought of would have been very bland, and would have made this simply another Daniel-gets-in-trouble-Jack-rescues-him story. Instead, it's a touching story about two equal friends.

Dana Jeanne


my feelings exactly. It would've been a very bland story if I had ended it the other way.


So, does anyone else have any more stories to put on the chopping block? I can put another one of mine up, if anyone is interested.


SueS

meimei
December 5th, 2004, 02:43 PM
The one problem I had with the story is with Daniel. And this is probably a rotten thing to say about a dying man, but he seemed a bit whiny when he was talking with Lya. It was the bit about - Jack doesn't listen to me. I had a hard time believing that Daniel would base his life or death decision on an assumption that Jack doesn't listen to him. Perhaps if you had made it a more universal - "I try, but they don't listen" - i.e. the academic community, the aliens we've met, the people at the SGC, SG-1, Jack, etc, it would've played out better for me and the enormity of his decision would have been heavier.
SueS


Glad you liked it :) Thanks!

Yeah, I was afraid he might come across as a bit whiney. As he was 'speaking' in my head, it was a tired-of-it-all voice, rather than a whine, but I couldn't quite make that clear. As I was writing it I was thinking of "The Other Side," "Menace," um... the one with Lotan and the Enkarens, the episodes where Jack and Daniel seemed so horribly out of touch with each other and it seemed Daniel was just hitting his head against a brick wall.

"I try, but they don't listen" probably would have played out better :D but I was trying for this to be a Jack-Daniel "battle."

Dana JeanneI'm baaaack! LOL!

I think that SueS hit on what I found slightly 'slashy' about your fic. I went back and read it again. And I think it was the convo with Lya that did it... If it had been less about Jack not paying attention... I tried substituting generalities or different wording as suggested and that was it. In my mind, Daniel sounded more like a spurned lover than a man that felt his friends and collegues didn't respect him. The fic as a whole didn't have that feeling but that one convo put the different light on it for me.

Sorry it took so long to get back here! Next is SueS story!

meimei
December 5th, 2004, 02:54 PM
ok, read 'i will remember' for real this time:)

I thought it was ok. There were times when i found the 'sam has amnesia' a bit of a cliche, and jack's behavior was definitely more 'fic jack' than 'show jack'

doesn't mean it's bad, because it isn't at all. It's a nice fuzzy ship fic. there were just times when i couldn't quite hear the characters' voices. Sam was a lot bouncier than show sam. And Jack was more demonstrative than show jack. Of course, these are fic characterizations...and sam has amnesia, so that excuses some of her actions

I did think that daniel and Teal'c were good. I liked the 'two brothers' attitude. There's not much to do with brightman simply because we barely know her.

I do like that Pete wasn't a jerk. I think that's getting to be a pet peeve of mine, pete being the endless nut job.

all in all, it's a nice fuzzy sam/jack happy ending fic :)
LOL! It was meant to be warm and fuzzy! I was letting off steam over Affinity! I probably wouldn't have posted this one here if I had anything else rated lower than R or NC17. I think I mentioned that I wrote this at the suggestion that Sam needed another conk in the head Grace style to put her back to rights so I conked her in the head!

I am working on one now that I may put up at a later date. It has some NC17 parts but would be easy to edit for a less "shippy" story. It has more team, and hopefully in the eyes of our non-shipping friends, a little more canon characters.

Of course, half the point of my writing is to go where the show won't... So of course I stray off canon.

I don't see the Pete character as total evil either. I see the writers' as total evil for writing him! LOL! I think he could have been written better in Chimera. He came off looking evil with his background checks and following Sam.

In Affinity, the writers' had him redeem himself except for the "stalking" line. If they had given a more realistic line, "I'm glad you've finally forgiven me for yada, yada, yada" rather than making a joke out of spandax and stalking, it would have been more in character with the Sam that I have seen for the last seven years.

So anyway... I don't see Pete as evil and I try not to write him that way.

meimei
December 5th, 2004, 03:08 PM
I'd be curious to know what you guys think of The Last Temptation.

Well, I'm off to finish reading the other stories recced here and come back with my comments on them.


Oops almost forgot The Last Temptation can be found here:

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/12/thelast.html



SueSOkay.... Where to begin? Excellent story. I was able to follow the POV changes without a problem.

I did kind of scratch my head when you had Jack declining to go on the mission to try and find out what had happened to Daniel. Jack is always a man of action and I didn't see him staying behind to sit with Daniel when he could do something to help Daniel. Of course as I kept reading you explained it. I am glad that you had Sam questioning it too. It wasn't very Jack-like.

And of course, it did end up as part of the plot that he stay there to meet with the visitors. However, IMO, I think you could have had the same meeting with the first visitor somewhere other than the infirmary so you could have had Jack out with the team.

I did see a couple of colloquialisms that made me re-read a couple of lines. I didn't see Kasuf saying "afraid to put one foot in front of the other". That didn't seem very Kasuf to me. But, just an opinion. And when Orlin referred to "push the envelope" was the other.

Neither took away from the story itself, it just interrupted the flow of reading it for me. I find myself doing that as well sometimes, so maybe it caught my attention because I try to watch out for that in my own stories.

I wasn't really looking for the real nit picky stuff like spelling and grammar, since the plot was keeping me going! As far as I'm concerned, any story that does that has to be good...

Overall, an excellent story.

Dana_Jeanne
December 6th, 2004, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=meimei][/i]

I'm baaaack! LOL!

I think that SueS hit on what I found slightly 'slashy' about your fic. I went back and read it again. And I think it was the convo with Lya that did it... If it had been less about Jack not paying attention... I tried substituting generalities or different wording as suggested and that was it. In my mind, Daniel sounded more like a spurned lover than a man that felt his friends and collegues didn't respect him. The fic as a whole didn't have that feeling but that one convo put the different light on it for me. QUOTE]

I can see how it might seem that way! Thanks for the comments, it's definitely something I'll keep in mind with the one I'm working on right now.

DJ

Dana_Jeanne
December 6th, 2004, 12:03 PM
Pull another one of yours up, sue, and.... anyone have a SHORT J/S fic? I will give it my best shot, if it's short :D

In the meantime, here's the other SG fic I wrote. It was in response to a challange on the H/C yahoo list to write a story where someone on the team has a small injury (or something like that).

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/cutto.html

SkyDiver, do you have another one to put up? Anybody know JKrckt? We need to get some more vic, er volunteers over here! :p

Dana Jeanne

Skydiver
December 6th, 2004, 12:48 PM
ok, here's a couple, and they're relatively short

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/0/forthe.html
For the love of a child, a singularity tag

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/0/awarriors.html
a warrior's honor
which i should warn you, has jonas in it

Dana, i'll read yours tonight

Skydiver
December 6th, 2004, 07:06 PM
In the meantime, here's the other SG fic I wrote. It was in response to a challange on the H/C yahoo list to write a story where someone on the team has a small injury (or something like that).

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/cutto.html



it's a good fic. something i could see happening. i think the only real quibble was that daniel says in the eps that they drew straws, course it's possible that he was pushing jack's buttons.

i didn't notice anything wrong or out of place and it's written in such a way that it could be a stand alone, or a prequel to a 'post talk' fic

Dana_Jeanne
December 7th, 2004, 08:12 AM
ok, here's a couple, and they're relatively short

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/0/forthe.html
For the love of a child, a singularity tag

Oh, I liked this one! At first I couldn't see Sam having so much self-doubt, but after some thought it made sense to me. She probably realised herself that she couldn't take care of Cassie because of the job and so was reading what she didn't want to accept in other's remarks.

I had a falling out with a friend some 20 years ago, who then took off with her 2-year-old daughter (my godchild). My first reaction was to immediately erase anything that reminded me of little Dayna, so I can totally understand Sam wanting to pack away that room ASAP.

This was an excellent tag to the episode and showed us how (at least in fanfic) Cassie ended up with two moms.

Dana Jeanne

Skydiver
December 7th, 2004, 09:40 AM
I based some of it off things amanda had said about that episode. she personally thought it should have ended with sam getting cassie, even talked to brad wright about it and he talked her out of it, using the same arguements that i used in the fic

sam's hours
the dangerous nature of her job
janet's stability

however, in itlod and rite of passage, we definitely get the idea that janet and sam work together raising cassie. there's a casualness between them that speaks of time spent together

SueS
December 7th, 2004, 05:45 PM
Okay.... Where to begin? Excellent story. I was able to follow the POV changes without a problem.

I did kind of scratch my head when you had Jack declining to go on the mission to try and find out what had happened to Daniel. Jack is always a man of action and I didn't see him staying behind to sit with Daniel when he could do something to help Daniel. Of course as I kept reading you explained it. I am glad that you had Sam questioning it too. It wasn't very Jack-like.



You know, this is exactly what one of my betas said before I added the scene explaining Jack's actions. In one of my first drafts I just had Jack staying and I was told this is out of character for Jack, you need to explain his motivation here. So I did.


Any ways, I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I'm sorry I took so long to get back to you.


SueS

SueS
December 8th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Pull another one of yours up, sue, and.... anyone have a SHORT J/S fic? I will give it my best shot, if it's short :D

In the meantime, here's the other SG fic I wrote. It was in response to a challange on the H/C yahoo list to write a story where someone on the team has a small injury (or something like that).

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/26/cutto.html


Dana Jeanne

Dana Jeanne,

I really enjoyed this one. I could actually see and hear the characters. It was really well done.


Okay here's another one of mine for the chopping block. It's another Danielfic

Actually, it's the very first stargate fanfic I wrote.

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/6/themobius.html


SueS

whisper99
December 9th, 2004, 10:28 AM
I just finished reading it and overall, I thought it was a pretty good story. At the end of it, all I could think was "How awful!! Poor Daniel. *sniffle* God, that was a great story!". Ok, so now here are my nits and picks:

I couldn't help but wonder how the old professor managed to become a host to a Goau'ld.

Towards the end, I think that Jack would have perhaps had a harder time deciding whether to give Daniel back his memories of the past life. Perhaps a quick dialog with Sam to see if there was something, anything else they could do before he put the memory device on Daniel. It would be a really good opportunity for Sam to do _something_ because it seems like she's very much in the background in the story.

Some (very minor point for me) of the dialog doesn't seem to fit with the characters, for example, Daniel's "Why do I have to give up this great life that I have?" When I read that, I just couldn't imagine him saying that. I guess I'm just picky.

Also, I think that Jack would have had more sympathy for Daniel at the end when he (Daniel) was deciding to do this.

I loved the scene where Daniel remembers someone comfort him as a child. It was very sad, but I loved the words he said. Can you see that giving Danny the strength to carry on, so to speak, and grow into the man he did? I can :)

And finally the ending (although I still liked it) it wasn't clear to me how Jack would have known about the memory device if everything was put back to normal?


-Whispers 2 pennies.

samjack4ever
December 20th, 2004, 05:24 AM
OK... I'm going to take the plunge...

*Takes a deep breath*

I've recently finished Gemino (http://uk.geocities.com/sam_jack4ever/gemino.htm) and I would love to hear your opinions on it...

Thanks

Skydiver
December 20th, 2004, 01:19 PM
you know, i'd been trying to read this all weekend...now i have a good excuse

ok, negative first...it's got some technical errors. sound alike words, intense/intents, intack/intact, quiet/quite, your/you're that have been swapped out.

nothing horrible, but it did make me stop when i was reading.

the story has a good premise and i don't think it's anything anyone has dealt with. yes, we have a ton of mini-jack fic out there, but nothing wtih the dual whammy of adult cloned jack

I think it would drie him nuts to be there but not be a part of things

little bits here and there read pretty fast...sort of like you were trying to get everything down in a hurry and didn't always take your time to develop it. I'm guilty of doing that. Folks have called my writing sparse because i don't use a lot of prose and description, so it's not necessarily a bad thing, there were just times when it felt rushed.

I do think it's a good story that has definite promise and one i'm gonna look for in a couple of months when part 2 is done

What you might want to do at some point in time is go back, flesh it out more. Add a little, not really plot wise, but description, dialogue, feelings. just a little more to make it a bit richer

samjack4ever
December 21st, 2004, 01:11 AM
Thanks for the feedback...


you know, i'd been trying to read this all weekend...now i have a good excuse

ok, negative first...it's got some technical errors. sound alike words, intense/intents, intack/intact, quiet/quite, your/you're that have been swapped out.

nothing horrible, but it did make me stop when i was reading.

I don't have a beta to check for things like this and as you know it pretty hard to pick up mistakes after you've been reading the damn thing for the past two months... So thank you and I'll have a look over it and try and pick up as many as I can find


the story has a good premise and i don't think it's anything anyone has dealt with. yes, we have a ton of mini-jack fic out there, but nothing wtih the dual whammy of adult cloned jack

I think it would drie him nuts to be there but not be a part of things

little bits here and there read pretty fast...sort of like you were trying to get everything down in a hurry and didn't always take your time to develop it. I'm guilty of doing that. Folks have called my writing sparse because i don't use a lot of prose and description, so it's not necessarily a bad thing, there were just times when it felt rushed.


Yea, I agree with you some parts could do with a bit more added...



I do think it's a good story that has definite promise and one i'm gonna look for in a couple of months when part 2 is done

What you might want to do at some point in time is go back, flesh it out more. Add a little, not really plot wise, but description, dialogue, feelings. just a little more to make it a bit richer

I guess I'll leave it for a bit and come back to it. More than likely when I've finished part two. That way I can look at it a bit more objectively.

Thanks for your honest comments... Makes refreshing change from 'Love it' 'Hate it' ...:)

This thread is great by the way and not as scary as I first thought ;)

Skydiver
December 21st, 2004, 04:50 AM
sometimes, it's good to let a fic sit and then go back to it. I have one right now that's gonna be a huge AU fic....and i keep finding that i need to go back and stick a little in here or there, jsut to make things work easier.

Let me know if you need someone to beta your fic. i can help you out

samjack4ever
December 21st, 2004, 01:32 PM
sometimes, it's good to let a fic sit and then go back to it. I have one right now that's gonna be a huge AU fic....and i keep finding that i need to go back and stick a little in here or there, jsut to make things work easier.

Let me know if you need someone to beta your fic. i can help you out
Thanks for the offer and I am sure I'll be calling upon your services once I have finsihed part two :)

Skydiver
December 21st, 2004, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the offer and I am sure I'll be calling upon your services once I have finsihed part two :)

just send me a pm or e-mail when you're ready :)