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Lord Zedd
November 20th, 2004, 02:19 PM
Hi this is a dumb question but I have been wondering for quiette some time now.How can serpent guards see where they are walking?I mean if the serpent guard helmet goes down then you see the Jaffa his head when it goes up you can see that where the nec is there is the Jaffa his head so how can they see? I believe that that was one of the reasons why they have stopped using helmets.I found the helmets where cool.I wish I could buy such a serpent guard helmet.I would scare of my little sisther :D Where can I buy it? Any thoughts?

Mr Prophet
November 20th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Well they can't see. That's pretty much why they don't use them anymore.

Erik Pasternak
November 20th, 2004, 02:52 PM
I assumed that the Jaffa saw through the red 'eye' holes. It was probably difficult though, I know it's difficult for the actors playing the Kull Warriors to see.

sharky277
November 20th, 2004, 05:24 PM
i've been thinking about this too, but i answer it by saying that they are the goa'uld, and are very advanced, so maybe they have like a folding screen on the inside or something. they did look cool though, i hope we will see some in...
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in the season finale, it being a time travel episode and aphoshis and ra being shown.

Gothann
November 20th, 2004, 05:28 PM
Same goes for Horus guards...

But I guess that the actors themselves should know their predetermined marks by heart, as for in the storyline, the Goa'uld have definitely found a workaround to the impaired sight problem.

Erik Pasternak
November 20th, 2004, 05:30 PM
i hope we will see someThey were droped because the actors complained about them so much. Even in the last couple Apophis eps (like "Enemies") we didn't see them.

sharky277
November 20th, 2004, 05:34 PM
but u never now, this is supposed to be the biggest, hugest finale so far. an end to some REALLY BIG story lines.

Erik Pasternak
November 20th, 2004, 05:35 PM
but u never now, this is supposed to be the biggest, hugest finale so far. an end to some REALLY BIG story lines.
We'll see. :)

lionel_pendergast_rocks
November 20th, 2004, 06:31 PM
about the serpent guards, they look really dumb to me, especially when they open up that hatch thing to reveal their faces. in the stargate movie, the jafaa had these really cool helmet/headress/whatever things that like retracted to the size of, well, i dont know what, but the graphics on that were cool. why couldnt they have used those instead?

Erik Pasternak
November 20th, 2004, 10:34 PM
about the serpent guards, they look really dumb to me, especially when they open up that hatch thing to reveal their faces. in the stargate movie, the jafaa had these really cool helmet/headress/whatever things that like retracted to the size of, well, i dont know what, but the graphics on that were cool. why couldnt they have used those instead?
The horus guard masks were used a couple times in the series, pretty much whenever (except for the last time) we saw Heru'ur. They probably weren't used in the series because the effect costs a lot more than using the serpent guard helmets.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 21st, 2004, 02:32 AM
i always assumed through the eyes.


maybe it some sort of filter like the predators use on there mask!

Crazedwraith
November 21st, 2004, 03:26 AM
Dammit I hope we see Seprent Guards again the finale, and HorusGuards and Anubis. Jackal Guards for Ra!

Elite Anubis Guard
November 21st, 2004, 03:53 AM
i assume you mean the anubis guards wen i say jackal?

Lord Zedd
November 21st, 2004, 03:54 AM
i assume you mean the anubis guards wen i say jackal?
Yeah like the one on your signature :D

Elite Anubis Guard
November 21st, 2004, 04:05 AM
you know i never actually knew this guy was called anubis till i watched the commentary i always knew about the horus guard.


its an exciting idea have serpeants go up against anubis's though!

Crazedwraith
November 21st, 2004, 07:09 AM
i assume you mean the anubis guards wen i say jackal?
Yup I say Jackal becuase it makes more sense relative to serpent/Horus guards and also to avoid confusion with the half-ascened bugger on SG-1. i knew it was technically called Anubis from the movie creds.

Mr Prophet
November 21st, 2004, 08:08 AM
Yup I say Jackal becuase it makes more sense relative to serpent/Horus guards and also to avoid confusion with the half-ascened bugger on SG-1. i knew it was technically called Anubis from the movie creds.

When attempting to explain this little inconsistency, I tend to say that having banished and - so he believed - assassinated Anubis, Ra gave the jackal-headed ceremonial armour Anubis had once used to his First Prime. Symbolically, this brought the renegade back under his control. For the viewing peasantry and Jaffa, the pretence would have been absolute: Anubis, the great adversary, was seen to once more serve Ra.

Erik Pasternak
November 21st, 2004, 08:51 AM
When attempting to explain this little inconsistency, I tend to say that having banished and - so he believed - assassinated Anubis, Ra gave the jackal-headed ceremonial armour Anubis had once used to his First Prime. Symbolically, this brought the renegade back under his control. For the viewing peasantry and Jaffa, the pretence would have been absolute: Anubis, the great adversary, was seen to once more serve Ra.
I like the way you think Prophet ;)

Elite Anubis Guard
November 21st, 2004, 11:23 AM
ohhh thats a really nice explanation.

makes a fair bit of sense!

Mr Prophet
November 21st, 2004, 12:08 PM
Good to know the anthropology section of my arch and anth course wasn't completely wasted. :)

Daniel's_twin
November 21st, 2004, 05:56 PM
maybe they have like a folding screen on the inside or something.

That's what I was thinking. Remember in the movie, when the Horus guard was watching the caravan come into the pyramid and his mechanical head followed them? I imagine, that there is most likely some sort of screen inside the helmets that does actually fold up with everything else. And while the helmet itself is put up or brought down by some sort of button, the "camera" if you will, is controlled by the Jaffa's thought, allowing it to see as it normally would.

But in real life, they probably just rehearse how to move until they get their places right. Maybe for far-away shots they decide to put in small peep-holes for the actors/stunt men. :cool:

Beatrice Otter
November 21st, 2004, 11:25 PM
The horus guard masks were used a couple times in the series, pretty much whenever (except for the last time) we saw Heru'ur. They probably weren't used in the series because the effect costs a lot more than using the serpent guard helmets.
Yeah. The only way to do that effect is completely CG; remember, the helmet folds away to _nothing_. And you've got to attach it to the actor; melding live action and CG like that is neither easy, nor cheap. On SW:TPM, they were originally going to have Jar Jar's body be live action, and just animate the head. Then they realized it was _cheaper_ to animate the _entire_ body, than just part of it. Think of trying to do something that George Lucas thought was too expensive, and do it regularly on a TV budget. Eeps. There wouldn't be anything left over for location work and spaceships and the Gate effect. :(

LordMartin
November 21st, 2004, 11:40 PM
I always thought that the reason they used the helmets was for two reasons. The most obvious one would be to scare and intimidate the populas that were slaves to thier God. I'm guessing that they (the slaves) would never see the Serpent/Horse guards without thier helmets on. Being that they were primative people, they might think that the Jaffa were infact part animal.

The other reason I think is for protection and assistance in battle. If they have the helmet deployed maybe it can save them from a staff blast. Also I was thinking there might be some sort of extra sensory information that the helmet provides, like a HUD. Possibly this information could be on a screen or maybe projected directly into the jaffa's retina by some sort of transmitter.

This would allow them to see tacticle information.

Just a thought.....

Mr Prophet
November 22nd, 2004, 07:54 AM
Generally the Goa'uld don't go to that kind of trouble for their Jaffa, but I woudl assume some kind of relay at least. In particular, if they have a display of what the eyes see, they might have a snowball's chance in hell of seeing behind them sometimes.

In tech terms, the Jaffa helm could be loaded with goodies - night vision, IR and all sorts, but given that the Goa'uld don't bother to give them field radios, I suspect that this is not the case. If they had constant tactical updates to an HUD, they wouldn't coordinate their assaults using hunting horns.

Crazedwraith
November 22nd, 2004, 08:33 AM
I always thought that the reason they used the helmets was for two reasons. The most obvious one would be to scare and intimidate the populas that were slaves to thier God. I'm guessing that they (the slaves) would never see the Serpent/Horse guards without thier helmets on. Being that they were primative people, they might think that the Jaffa were infact part animal....

Indeed in the movies they believed gthis to be true. Near the end theres a scene just before they takes the naqaudah caravan to Ra where they kill the Horus and Khasufs really scared then daniel presses the stud and says "Look! Lokk at your God! He's Just a man!"

LordMartin
November 22nd, 2004, 09:57 AM
In tech terms, the Jaffa helm could be loaded with goodies - night vision, IR and all sorts, but given that the Goa'uld don't bother to give them field radios, I suspect that this is not the case.
I know what you mean, at first the Jaffa appear to be very primative warriors i.e. using battle horns to communicate instead of radios. We haven't really seen that much battlefield coordination at all, but some of thier battles are quite extensive. The ships certainly have communications, the gliders only have audio but the others have visual. The commanders on the ground would have to be in radio contact with the ships and probably a mothership.

I do think that the individual jaffa do not have communications with each other, only the commanders. This way they could order/request air strikes, reinforcements.

My point here is that they do have some communication capability. I would guess they have some sort of basic night vision in the helmets also.

Mr Prophet
November 22nd, 2004, 10:36 AM
They have the capability, but they don't use it. They have to radio the gliders, since horns don't work in space, but if they have comms even to field commanders they woudn't need the horns, which are a massive liability in battle.

Basically, the Goa'uld are stupid, lazy and cheap.

LordMartin
November 22nd, 2004, 09:33 PM
I know that is what we have seen so far... horns no coms, etc. But just imagine a large scale battle covering several hundred or thousand miles. Multiple staging areas, landing sites, 10,000 jaffa, etc. Horns don't travel more than a few miles. What do you think? So far we've seen them cover 10 or 20 square miles but no more.

Daniel's_twin
November 23rd, 2004, 08:51 AM
We also have to remember that the Goa'uld create most of their society to be kind of primitive while utilizing their technology to make themselves appear as gods. So it would make sense that the Jaffa are only allowed to use battle horns on a large scale basis. Getting them to use coms would be like also trying to take away Ha'tak torches for lights. :cool:

Mr Prophet
November 23rd, 2004, 09:32 AM
I know that is what we have seen so far... horns no coms, etc. But just imagine a large scale battle covering several hundred or thousand miles. Multiple staging areas, landing sites, 10,000 jaffa, etc. Horns don't travel more than a few miles. What do you think? So far we've seen them cover 10 or 20 square miles but no more.

I reckon they have comms to commanders in their drop ships; probably Goa'uld commanders. The ships could have amplified horns to direct teams over a longer distance; remember Svarog's orbital boombox? Basically though, once they've been sent out the Jaffa are on their own, trying to follow through a plan laid out for them in advance by the wisdom of their gods; if they - through no fault of their own - end up tangling an altered plan of their master's, they'd get put to death for their troubles.

Beatrice Otter
November 24th, 2004, 09:03 PM
I know that is what we have seen so far... horns no coms, etc. But just imagine a large scale battle covering several hundred or thousand miles. Multiple staging areas, landing sites, 10,000 jaffa, etc. Horns don't travel more than a few miles. What do you think? So far we've seen them cover 10 or 20 square miles but no more.
Well, from what we've seen ... they use the same methods humans did before the technology was developed. You don't need tech to make war on a massive scale; check out the ancient Romans, Persians, Greeks, etc. for proof of that. Of course, it does make it a _whole_ lot easier.

Darkstar
November 25th, 2004, 08:08 AM
err why don't they just re design them or better still just make a different design altogether?

the serpent gaurds were good back then but we need to have somthing a little more up to date and im sure that there are more designs than the serpent gaurd and the jackel.

i'e seen many episodes of stargate but could anyone tell me have they ever used the horus gaurd helmets (falcon/ bird thingy)? :S
we've never seen the setesh gaurd, the fictional animal with the dripping nose yet have we?

Ugly Pig
November 25th, 2004, 03:51 PM
i'e seen many episodes of stargate but could anyone tell me have they ever used the horus gaurd helmets (falcon/ bird thingy)? :S
Yes they have. In 'Thor's Chariot', among others.

we've never seen the setesh gaurd, the fictional animal with the dripping nose yet have we?
No, and we probably never will as Seth was only in one episode before he died, after having been separated from his empire for thousands of years.