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YutheGreat
November 15th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Did you suspect about the illusions: Zelenka, Kolya, Conrad, Luthor

I knew that Zelenka was a fake It was just with the "your brilliant" comment that gave it away.

The Kolya thing I wasn't sure of cutting off Shepard's was a concern not sure if it was real

Vanessa Conrad well it was possible that she was real.

Luthor was a surprise. I thought it was real.

SerenaSerenity
November 15th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Nope. I can honestly say that I didn't figure it out. lol

FallenAngelII
November 15th, 2008, 05:58 PM
I knew Conrad was special. I thought she might have been an Ascend Ancient or the imprinted memory of one (from some Ancient device). There was just something about the way she acted.

I knew Radek was acting fishy, but didn't think anything of it. Kolya cutting off John's hand shocked me, but I knew there'd be reset button somewhere along the line. Didn't think anything of it, though.

I didn't suspect there to be widespread hallucinating, so I just stuck with Conrad being an illusion/Ascend being/imprinted memory.

gopher65
November 15th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Yup. I thought this was a pretty good episode (probably my favourite of the year thus far), but I figured out the connection between the plotlines very quickly on. No spoilers either:). But then, when I watch TV I automatically try to figure out what is going on (instead of just watching passively), so that isn't surprising. I was annoyed that Rodney didn't realize that Radek was fake, and didn't want to believe it even in the end. Minor quibble though.

In the end there are a very limited number of possible ways that a series of plotthreads can be braided together (especially when you are unwilling to put characters in real danger on a regular basis), and if you pay attention it isn't hard to see straight through to the end of the episode almost immediately.

Starsaber
November 15th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I didn't even figure out Conrad. When I saw the IOA rep observing the conversation between Conrad and Woolsey, I thought that maybe Conrad was assigned to Atlantis specifically to get involved with Woolsey. Him being romantically involved with a member of the expedition would be a pretty serious conflict of interests and would probably result in him being booted from his position.

gopher65
November 15th, 2008, 06:11 PM
I didn't even figure out Conrad. When I saw the IOA rep observing the conversation between Conrad and Woolsey, I thought that maybe Conrad was assigned to Atlantis specifically to get involved with Woolsey. Him being romantically involved with a member of the expedition would be a pretty serious conflict of interests and would probably result in him being booted from his position.
Yeah, that was the one that it took me the longest to decide on, since she could have been part of either the A plot (the alien device) or the B plot (the leadership problem). Right up until we realize that not everyone can see her (in the control room) it was undecided. I liked that:). Could have gone either way. I'm not sure if that uncertainty in the plotline was purposeful or not, but if it was it was clever.

Sevenofnine
November 15th, 2008, 06:24 PM
I didn't even figure out Conrad. When I saw the IOA rep observing the conversation between Conrad and Woolsey, I thought that maybe Conrad was assigned to Atlantis specifically to get involved with Woolsey. Him being romantically involved with a member of the expedition would be a pretty serious conflict of interests and would probably result in him being booted from his position.

Thats exactly what I thought when I saw that scene. I thought the IOA rep would fry Woolsey for this.

Raeth
November 15th, 2008, 06:25 PM
I never figure anything out. XD


I thought that maybe Conrad was assigned to Atlantis specifically to get involved with Woolsey.

My prediction exactly at that point.

Alteran of Atlantis
November 15th, 2008, 07:36 PM
The "You're brilliant" comment from Zelenka gave it away for me. He would never have said that. And I knew there was somethingfishy about Kolya. The whole time I was thinking "How the heck did he get on the mainland?" Never saw Conrad, though. Thought she was real.

YutheGreat
November 15th, 2008, 08:27 PM
The "You're brilliant" comment from Zelenka gave it away for me. He would never have said that. And I knew there was somethingfishy about Kolya. The whole time I was thinking "How the heck did he get on the mainland?" Never saw Conrad, though. Thought she was real.

Your right. I mean I should have thought of that how did a Genii strike force get to the mainland. I mean the Genii had no ships. Even if a ship had reach their planet Atlantis would have discovered it comming out of Hyperspace. Kolya would never have left Shepard alone especially since the last time.

nx01a
November 15th, 2008, 09:05 PM
I'll have to rewatch, but whichever came first, either finding out that the probe's energy field enveloped the city and beyond or John getting his hand cut off. Either way, one further proved the other. I thought for a second, the same tech that can bring back the dead should regenerate a hand, but I said that was too fishy and went with mass mind frell.
I assumed in the beginning that the Aussie was in league with Woolsey's appraiser, perhaps the 'good' cop'.
Zelenka... Not sure, but it seemed iffy. When Rodney told the AI that he wanted to see it, that's when it clicked that he'd seen it all along as Zelenka.
I didn't get the Luthor [Lex?:P] one right away, though I did think to myself how odd it was for them to open a wormhole to Pegasus just to tell her that.

Rosehawk
November 15th, 2008, 10:58 PM
I didn't figure out that they were AI's however

with Conrad, something was up because they show'd way tooooo much cleavage on her during her balconey conversation with Woosley. While they have shown cleavage before, we really haven't seen the women in uniform show that much. I thought maybe she was a test for Woosley.

with Zelenka, I thought maybe he was setting Rodney up for something. You know, buttering Rodney up to get something he wanted.....

And with Koya, well you just knew it had to be something to bring the guy back from the dead. And then no blood on Sheppards bandages

I thought maybe it was a dream sequence story....sure glad it wasn't. :)

Voxyn
November 16th, 2008, 01:39 PM
I realised something was fishy when Genii appeared.
How could they get on the mainland?
They have no space ships.

TishTash
November 16th, 2008, 03:08 PM
I figured that there was a hallucination, though didn't realise about the AI though.
Zelenka telling Rodney he was brilliant, made me suspect, plus I didn't buy Koyla coming back from the dead.
Conrad didn't quite seem to fit, no one in their work uniform has that much cleavage showing normally, plus no one else could see her

BigR
November 16th, 2008, 04:23 PM
I never did. I watch TV without thinking too far ahead or disecting things too much. I find it more enjoyable that way.

Count
November 16th, 2008, 05:45 PM
I knew Kolya was a fake... too many plotholes as to how he got to the mainland so without a gate or ship or both. It never clicked with Zelenka though, it's not the first time Zelenka has admitted that McKay was better then he was (remember back in The Seige with the ancient defence satellite?) so that got me there, as for Luthor. I had suspicions, why would Earth be dialling IN for an update? I figured Atlantis had to dial out for direct contact.

I actually though Vanessa was an IOA agent after i saw the way Shou was spying on Woolsey at the balcony.

gatechick
November 16th, 2008, 06:24 PM
I figured Koyla was a fake right away. Conrad took me a little longer, and the Zelenka one threw my for a loop. I didn't get it until the end, and even then I thought they were messing with Rodney at first.

mr_kennedy
November 16th, 2008, 06:28 PM
eh i knew something was up when kolya appeard and then when he cut of shepperds hand

when i read the spoilers before watching this episode, at first thought maybe the new/old/dead alien race ressurected kolya but then i changed my mind when he cut of shepperds hand

Alteran of Atlantis
November 16th, 2008, 06:37 PM
I actually though Vanessa was an IOA agent after i saw the way Shou was spying on Woolsey at the balcony.

Yeah, that's what I thought at first. I was surprised when she turned out to be an AI.

rick_coppola
November 16th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I knew Vanessa Conrad wasn't real or not really there since the moment i saw Shou on the window. I just thought "why would it be important?" then i thought "We haven't seen Conrad talking to anyone else but Mr. Woolsey " and that reminded me of the movie Beautiful Mind in which something similar happens. After that i started thinking and thought maybe Kolya was also a hallucination, but the hand cutting kind of trew me off because i though no physical things could happen threfore maybe he wasn't one... Zelenka seemed weird but not really payed much attention to him (exept for the comment that he made to Mckay but never imagined he wasn't real).
Luthor was never in my mind...

Lt.Con
November 16th, 2008, 09:35 PM
For me i kinda knew that something wasn't right when every time Mckay And Zelenka would talk Zelenka would be working his reverse psychology on him to work on the device. Very out of character for Zelenka.

Vanessa Conrad (Go Aussies) again i thought there was something fishing going on as someone as pretty as she was going after woosley, no offense to Woosley.i thought at first she was an IOA agent there to get under his skin and report back to Shou, but i didnt get this one untill the end.

Kolya i knew straight away something was wrong, firstly how would he be able to get onto the mainland without Atlantis being able to detect re-entry from a ship of some kind. Secondly whether it was just to messy to bother with i dont know but after Shep got his hand cut off.. Wheres all the blood?

Overall i loved the episode, not only to see Australia's First Aussie that i know of on Atlantis, but again to see another Advanced race wanting our help.

Rise Of The Phoenix
November 16th, 2008, 10:52 PM
I didn't manage to figure it out, it was a complete surprise to me.
I actually thought Vanessa was perhaps some mind device that the IOA lady brought with her to mess with Woolsey's head so that she could get control of Atlantis, but obviously I was wrong.

I was pleasantly surprised when it turned out Vanessa was the AI for the Sakari seeder device, along with being the other hallucinations.

It's just a shame we won't get to see the actual species develop in some future episode.
If they had interstellar ships and powerful enough weapons they could have become a great ally in the fight against the Wraith, even if they don't it would be good to have some cool technological friends that we can help and get to know. :)
I suppose a future Atlantis movie could explore some of their story. ;)

In my opinion it was an episode TPTB should have done a long time ago. :D

jnadreth
November 16th, 2008, 11:02 PM
I thought that something was wrong when Sheppard escaped and had a handgun with him let alone the fact that the Genii repaired to Puddlejumper-hell they could'nt even fix my internet conection?????. Zelenka being polite to Rodney also was a bit of a giveaway:D

Fan-e-Gate
November 17th, 2008, 12:22 AM
Yeah I had no idea for a long time. I guess when we first realised no one else could see her was when I thought the machine was involved.
It is a pity that we won't see her again. Originally I thought she was a plant by the IOA aswell.
I didn't realise about Kolya either until midway through his speech. I thought he used his "ancient device" to speed heal himself and Sheppherd's hand. I thought he had become a good guy and was helping this race (or at least keeping it away from Earth's hands). It was good seeing Kolya again though
Radick-he was acting weird all episode and I thought it was fishy to just start searchig the water. But I didn't even think of it until the end when McKay found out.

The Luther guy-personally I spotted this a mile away. It was the easiest of them all (actually surprised this was missed by you guys who figured what seemed like harder ones). The emphasis on the environment iniative was particularly smacking of poetic justice. Plus they wanted Woolsey's help so what better way to do that then secure his job.
I would have been surprised if this wasn't a trick.

nx01a
November 17th, 2008, 12:26 AM
While waiting for her return to Earth with Woolsey's bad appraisal in hand would have been standard, these are the same IOA people who thought that replicators eating Ori technology was a good thing. They're stooopid.

nx01a
November 17th, 2008, 12:28 AM
...and the scene with John vs Kolya where the camera spins around and around and around a la 'Alice in Wonderland' down the rabbit hole... Dead give away. Age old technique to show that something's a dream sequence, like 'Wizard of Oz' and the tornado. By that point, they were ready to reveal the hallucination anyway, so it worked.

squirrelking
November 17th, 2008, 01:34 AM
I knew something stargatey was up after Shepard got his hand cut off.
Not only do we not have a way of putting a hand back on him (and the conclusion it's not real) but the whole "I'm in the middle of the woods with bad guys and now I have a clean bandage on" tipped me off even more.


Did I figure out some crazy AI was in their minds? NOPE haha.


I was thinking Cloned Kolya's and some kind of mind trick.

Snookie16
November 17th, 2008, 11:29 AM
I did figure out something was off. I had to watch the episode twice that night. The first I was doing some other things, but things did not seem right. The second time it made sense to me.

Venessa Conrad-->I was kind of thinking along the ancient line, but the AI angle was great.

Radak-->I knew it was not Radek because he did not get in his typical Czech swearing mood, because of being annoyed by Rodney.

Kolya-->I knew something was not right when John had the bandage on his cut of hand and it was not bleeding profusely.

This episode got me thinking about thing like the episode of This Mortial Coil of last season.

gopher65
November 17th, 2008, 07:08 PM
...and the scene with John vs Kolya where the camera spins around and around and around a la 'Alice in Wonderland' down the rabbit hole... Dead give away. Age old technique to show that something's a dream sequence, like 'Wizard of Oz' and the tornado. By that point, they were ready to reveal the hallucination anyway, so it worked.
... now that's a great connection that I didn't make. Huh. When I rewatch this episode I'm going to watch for that.

JARVISBRODIE
November 17th, 2008, 07:23 PM
I figured Kolya and the whole "hand slicing" thing was a ruse. I honestly didn't think Kolya was real because we already know the real Kolya is dead. He was killed by Sheppard in the Season 3 episode IRRESPONSIBLE.

JARVISBRODIE
November 17th, 2008, 07:26 PM
...and the scene with John vs Kolya where the camera spins around and around and around a la 'Alice in Wonderland' down the rabbit hole... Dead give away. Age old technique to show that something's a dream sequence, like 'Wizard of Oz' and the tornado. By that point, they were ready to reveal the hallucination anyway, so it worked.

Well, I thought that battle between those was over for good. Besides, we already know the REAL Kolya is dead; he was shot to death by John. That's how I figured it out.

F Stop
November 18th, 2008, 09:26 AM
I honestly had no idea. I kept wondering throughout the episode how Kolya and his team managed to know where Atlantis was now (they obviously didn't gate in), and get down to the planet without being picked up by the sensors.

I tend not to really overthink things when watching tv shows though, so it's pretty easy to slip things by me.

Fandom Addict
November 18th, 2008, 12:38 PM
I sort of guessed Zelenka was pretty quickly, there is no way he compliments Rodney straight up like that, usually it's only after they've done something really impressive.

I thought WTF when Kolya went to cut of Sheppard's hand, which is when I realised that was too, as TPTB would never have that happen for real (plus I've looked at pics for the new episodes and he has his hand in those!).

perkin127
November 18th, 2008, 02:40 PM
i worked out that conrad was special in some way, esp as she seemed to always know where woolsy was, i didnt realize kolya was i just thought tptb had some lame excuse bout him not dying and was pleasantly surprised to realize he was dead! but the zelenka really surprised me, looking back it was very coincidental that zelenka wanted to do a sweep but then just look at the episode echoes, i think tptb were very clever in using our opinions of 'convenient coincidences' in sci-fi to fool us in this ep and in my case it really worked!

stargatelvr
November 21st, 2008, 02:21 PM
I did!!! I was very proud of myself actually, as I knew that either they were hallucinating or something very quickly. I kept telling my mother "That's not actually Zelenka!" and she wouldn't believe me. I'm still razzing her about it a bit. :)

Falcon Horus
January 18th, 2009, 05:16 PM
I was spoiled on Conrad so I knew she wasn't real. Zelenka AI gave himself away too soon with calling McKay brilliant - that was fishy. Kolya was dead and how the hell would he have gotten on the main land anyway. Didn't catch the IOA guy but then again I thought it was kinda strange.

Infinite-Possibilities
January 27th, 2009, 02:31 PM
I had been spoiled on Kolya not raelly being him. (Though I didn't know he was an AI illusion). I figured he was a shape-shifting telepathic villainous alien.

Vanessa Conrad struck me as suspicious fairly quickly so I was fairly certain she would be an illusion.

Zelenka gave me a funny feeling that he was not him because of his insistence on Rodney looking at the data, it reminded me of Replicator-Atlantis. Though they did add enough of him acting unsure of things to prevent me from thinking for sure that he wasn't real. I didn't think it was improbable for Zelenka to compliment Rodney. They've had a few non cynical moments prior to this in th show.

Icedragon
February 2nd, 2009, 10:43 PM
I got Conrad as soon as she said she would meet Woolsey there. (Didn't get it to be the AI though)
I got Kolya as soon as John's hand was right again.
Didn't get Zelenka until the end when Rodney said it was Zelenka's idea.

Who's Luther?

PS. Go the Aussies! Was Conrad the first 'Aussie' we have seen?

Falcon Horus
February 3rd, 2009, 09:38 AM
I got Conrad as soon as she said she would meet Woolsey there. (Didn't get it to be the AI though)
I got Kolya as soon as John's hand was right again.
Didn't get Zelenka until the end when Rodney said it was Zelenka's idea.

Just in time. :p


Who's Luther?

The IOA-dude.


PS. Go the Aussies! Was Conrad the first 'Aussie' we have seen?

The first talking Aussie, but not the first flag-wearing one.

Icedragon
February 3rd, 2009, 11:25 PM
That was the AI?

Falcon Horus
February 4th, 2009, 10:02 AM
That was the AI?

Yup, it was her going away present. Amelia confirms there was no wormhole activition from Earth at the time Shen claims she spoke to the IOA.

jelgate
February 4th, 2009, 10:08 AM
Yup, it was her going away present. Amelia confirms there was no wormhole activition from Earth at the time Shen claims she spoke to the IOA.

I'll admit that was something I didn't expect. I probably should have but I didn't think it was a hallucination. I just thought it was the IOA being sneaky and backstabbing

Falcon Horus
February 4th, 2009, 10:46 AM
I'll admit that was something I didn't expect. I probably should have but I didn't think it was a hallucination. I just thought it was the IOA being sneaky and backstabbing

I didn't suspect it either, the only hallucination I didn't think was one.