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musicahumana
November 15th, 2008, 08:26 AM
So, I laughed out loud at the end when it turned out that the AI had chosen to appear to Rodney as Zelenka. It hit me that Rodney was actually having these meaningful conversations, not with Zelenka, but with himself. This was especially poignant after "Kolya" had explained to John that John had actually created most of the scenario he had just experienced on his own--he had created his worst fear.

So what does this tell us about Rodney's friendship/acquaintance-ship with Radek? Probably lots, but I think that this line by "Radek" says a lot:

"Maybe they will name something after *me* for once."

Even though the line acted to spur Rodney to actually run the test (which "Radek" couldn't have done on his own), it speaks to the fact that Rodney feels, perhaps, slightly guilty that he gets all the credit, while a brilliant scholar like Zelenka is left in the margins.

Of course, "Radek's" statement, and the ensuing conversation, about Rodney's brilliance is also telling.

PS - I hope I read that last scene right. They never came right out and verified that they weren't pulling Rodney's leg about the fact that Radek was off-Atlantis. There was just a series of looks and Rodney's "son of a..." that made me believe them. (But I'm gullible.)

SerenaSerenity
November 15th, 2008, 08:59 AM
So, I laughed out loud at the end when it turned out that the AI had chosen to appear to Rodney as Zelenka. It hit me that Rodney was actually having these meaningful conversations, not with Zelenka, but with himself. This was especially poignant after "Kolya" had explained to John that John had actually created most of the scenario he had just experienced on his own--he had created his worst fear.

So what does this tell us about Rodney's friendship/acquaintance-ship with Radek? Probably lots, but I think that this line by "Radek" says a lot:

"Maybe they will name something after *me* for once."

Even though the line acted to spur Rodney to actually run the test (which "Radek" couldn't have done on his own), it speaks to the fact that Rodney feels, perhaps, slightly guilty that he gets all the credit, while a brilliant scholar like Zelenka is left in the margins.

Of course, "Radek's" statement, and the ensuing conversation, about Rodney's brilliance is also telling.

PS - I hope I read that last scene right. They never came right out and verified that they weren't pulling Rodney's leg about the fact that Radek was off-Atlantis. There was just a series of looks and Rodney's "son of a..." that made me believe them. (But I'm gullible.)

That is a really good theory. Mine was that Rodney actually feels threatened by Zelenka's genius. He's worried that someone might be as smart as he is. But I've always seen Rodney as insecure, even if his ego comes into play a lot. I think he's just afraid that it might not be true and that's why he takes every compliment to heart and it gives him a boost. I don't know if I'm making much sense with this, but yeah. It was hard to explain. lol

aretood2
November 15th, 2008, 12:24 PM
If you pay attention, Zelenka never interacted with anyone and no one ever looked at him. When Zelenka and Rodney talked there was no one around to say that Mckay was crazy save one time. When Mckay started the scan to find the Machine in the water that lady person looked at Mckay kind off funny when he mentioned that they wont find anything.

Why does this remind me of the Sixth Sense?

Infinite-Possibilities
November 15th, 2008, 12:26 PM
I actually had a suspicion it might be an hallucination, Zelenka kept prodding Rodney about the Data.

Pudding
November 15th, 2008, 03:15 PM
I actually had a suspicion it might be an hallucination, Zelenka kept prodding Rodney about the Data.

Yeah, I felt that it was odd for Zelenka to have such a one-track mind, and that he kept trying to steer Rodney away from focusing on the radiation. I didn't realize he was a hallucination until the end, though.

The_DrRodneyMckay
November 15th, 2008, 05:12 PM
Wasnt Mckay talking to Zelenka in the control room with many people around him. Why didnt somebody say something instead of letting him look like and idiot.
If i was in there position I probably would have let him just go on.

SoulReaver
November 15th, 2008, 05:15 PM
IWhy does this remind me of the Sixth Sense?Rodney [about Zelenka]> "I see dead live people !"

Infinite-Possibilities
November 15th, 2008, 05:16 PM
One of them were dead, another didn't exist.

SerenaSerenity
November 15th, 2008, 05:36 PM
One of them were dead, another didn't exist.

True, John's hallucination was indeed dead. Woolsey's hallucination didn't exist. But the one Rodney saw was indeed still alive, just offworld at the time. *nod nod*

Rodney: I saw a living person.
John: Oh yeah, I saw dead people.
Woolsey: Yes, it would seem so. While I saw someone who didn't exist and asked her to dinner.
*awkward moment of silence*
John: Yeah....
Rodney: I got some.... work to do. *turns to walk off, turns back* You asked her to dinner?
John: Weird....

Okay, so I'm odd. lol Probably not as accurate as some other people. I'm not the best at stuff like this. But yeah, it was still fun. =P LOL

Rosehawk
November 15th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Wasnt Mckay talking to Zelenka in the control room with many people around him. Why didnt somebody say something instead of letting him look like and idiot.
If i was in there position I probably would have let him just go on.
My guess is that it is probably not all that unusual for McKay or other scientists to talk outloud like that, sometimes when the throught process is happening it is not all that unusal to say things outloud.

I actually started laughing with the conversation where Zelenka called McKay brilliant...just the way Radek said brilliant, in a very gentle and kind way and the fact he didn't get all ruffled with Mckay's reaction... I started laughing and thinking okay, Zelenka is playing McKay...what is it he really wants....since they tend to have a bit of a competitive relationship at times, I thought it might have been a friendly competition type thing between them...didn't think it was an imaginary Zelenka.

SerenaSerenity
November 15th, 2008, 05:49 PM
My guess is that it is probably not all that unusual for McKay or other scientists to talk outloud like that, sometimes when the throught process is happening it is not all that unusal to say things outloud.

I actually started laughing with the conversation where Zelenka called McKay brilliant...just the way Radek said brilliant, in a very gentle and kind way and the fact he didn't get all ruffled with Mckay's reaction... I started laughing and thinking okay, Zelenka is playing McKay...what is it he really wants....since they tend to have a bit of a competitive relationship at times, I thought it might have been a friendly competition type thing between them...didn't think it was an imaginary Zelenka.

lol You had the same thought I did when I watched it. I never once thought it was an imaginary Zelenka.

SoulReaver
November 15th, 2008, 05:50 PM
"competition" ?
there is no competition, never was
sure, Zee is brilliant - as McKay's #2. that's all there is to it

Rosehawk
November 15th, 2008, 07:06 PM
"competition" ?
there is no competition, never was
sure, Zee is brilliant - as McKay's #2. that's all there is to it ^__^

Oh brother, not again! :rolleyes:

SoulReaver
November 15th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Oh brother, not again! :rolleyes:I knew that'd tick you off http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/kryten.gif

DragonLadyK
November 15th, 2008, 11:28 PM
So Rodney's conception of Radek is a man who needs an intelligence equal his own to work with in order to achieve miracles, a person in need of approval from his "superior," and who can only compliment people when they're about to die.

There's a word for that.

Projection. ;)

DragonLady

nemesis24
November 16th, 2008, 02:23 AM
I know its a little off topic but if all john, woolsey and rodney had visions that were brought around because of that device at the end why did only john and woolsey see that lady? you would have thought rodney would be able to see it as well - i know he did and said "neat" but that was only once she showed him their true form

SGFerrit
November 16th, 2008, 03:19 AM
My guess is that it is probably not all that unusual for McKay or other scientists to talk outloud like that, sometimes when the throught process is happening it is not all that unusal to say things outloud.

I actually started laughing with the conversation where Zelenka called McKay brilliant...just the way Radek said brilliant, in a very gentle and kind way and the fact he didn't get all ruffled with Mckay's reaction... I started laughing and thinking okay, Zelenka is playing McKay...what is it he really wants....since they tend to have a bit of a competitive relationship at times, I thought it might have been a friendly competition type thing between them...didn't think it was an imaginary Zelenka.

Watching back, Rodney didn't actually say one thing that couldn't be taken as 'speaking out loud'. Sure, his 'you'll find nothing' line may have seemed a little strange, but people there still could have taken it as talking out loud/typical weird Rodney behaviour. Zelenka didn't speak once, just followed him around.

It's pretty clever actually, you don't really notice during first watch!

ckwongau
November 16th, 2008, 04:45 AM
Season 2's grace under pressure, when Mckay 's jumper fail and sunk into the bottom of the ocean, he saw hallucination of Sam,Which was a bit funny, considering Rodney tried to have sex with Sam halluncination before he die ,That version of Sam tried to help him encourage him to faith for rescue by SGA teams, and even gave him some distraction like allowing him to tried to do it with her at one point.
It would be very funny if the rescue team were too late and find his dead body naked and his hand were holding his you know what.

i wonder if there were another device in the original Atlantis planet.
sometime i suspect McKay (in episode "Grace under pressure" )and Sam (in episode "Grace") were talking to ascended being , trying to help them but not physcially help him.

Kratos_Goauld_of_War
November 16th, 2008, 06:14 AM
I, myself didn't realize that Radek was not actually there. It was played off incredibly well. I laughed out loud at the end, people walking by my room probably thought I was crazy.






i wonder if there were another device in the original Atlantis planet.
sometime i suspect McKay (in episode "Grace under pressure" )and Sam (in episode "Grace") were talking to ascended being , trying to help them but not physcially help him.

That's an interesting thought, but the whole massive head trauma was explained as the reason both times. If memory serves me.

Coaster
November 16th, 2008, 07:06 AM
I knew beforehand that something was going to be up with Radek, as I'd heard that he would be "not what he seems". But I didn't clue in to him being a vision right away. Like Rosehawk, I thought he was trying to manipulate McKay with flattery. And I had figured the "not what he seems" would be something about his past.

It definitely amused me when he was revealed to be Rodney's illusion- Rodney would be perfectly happy to have his colleagues follow him around worshiping him and telling him what he wants to hear. What an ego! :D I can just imagine the conversation when Radek returns from offworld:

McKay: "The AI-version of you kept telling me how brilliant I was! It was great! Why can't you be like that in real life? We'd get along so much better." *smug smile*

Zelenka: *stares for a few moments open-mouthed* "Rodney, that was you".

McKay: "No, Sam was me that one time. If this had been me, I'd have imagined someone with..." *cups hands in front of his chest*

Zelenka: *rolls his eyes* "I don't believe this." *stomps off, shaking his head and muttering insults in Czech*

McKay: *turning away and grinning smugly* "Deep down, I know he agrees with me."

Rosehawk
November 16th, 2008, 12:58 PM
Now that is something I would love to have seen, just what Rodney's reaction would be once someone told Zelenka that he was the AI/Rodney's choice to help solve the AI's problem.

Ohhhh Zelenka would so be loving every moment of it, no matter how much Rodney would try to shoot it down and act like it was no big deal ....:)

SerenaSerenity
November 16th, 2008, 02:52 PM
Now that is something I would love to have seen, just what Rodney's reaction would be once someone told Zelenka that he was the AI/Rodney's choice to help solve the AI's problem.

Ohhhh Zelenka would so be loving every moment of it, no matter how much Rodney would try to shoot it down and act like it was no big deal ....:)

LOL I so have to agree there. It would be fun to watch that moment. I would laugh so hard.

airrick
November 17th, 2008, 02:55 AM
I know this was mentioned by another poster but I thought I would bring it up again.

If John and Woolsey were able to see Conrad because they were both subjected to visions by the alien device then in theory shouldnt Rodney have been able to see her? John never saw Conrad only his own personal visions, same with Rodney however in the gate room there is no explanation, even slightly, on why John can see her but Rodney cant.. sorry that just doesnt make sense to me.

Any thoughts?

musicahumana
November 17th, 2008, 09:02 AM
Maybe she didn't want to let Rodney know that he had been hallucinating? It might have freaked him out if he realized that Zelenka actually wasn't real at that point.... Maybe?

When it comes down to it, it was a plot device so that the episode can end on a joke--Rodney realizing he'd been had. :)

DragonLadyK
November 17th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Well, the device did say that what the person expected to see (John's worst nightmare and Woolsey's ideal) affected what the person saw. Since Rodney didn't expect to see Zelenka as the AI's avatar, perhaps that is why he could not see the AI until it made a concerted effort to fill in the blank of what he did expect to see -- the Sakaari body.

The idea could have been borrowed from or is similiar to a device David Edding's character Polgara used: she called it the "illusion of belonging." Whenever Polgara wanted to infiltrate a place she did not belong, instead of casting an illusion of invisibility (which would be ruined as soon as she bumped into or stepped in something) or of being a specific person (which would be ruined if she ran into said person or someone else knew said person was elsewhere) she projected an illusion that the other person would fill in as needed. For example, if Polgara was infiltrating a male-only area, those who looked directly at her or who she interacted with would see a vaguely familiar male because they wouldn't expect a woman to be there. Those who saw her out of the corner of their eye, on the other hand, wouldn't see her at all if they weren't expecting to see a person there. If Polgara was interacting with multiple people, each person would see her slightly differently in accord with what they expected to see.

DragonLady

Fandom Addict
November 18th, 2008, 12:47 PM
Wasnt Mckay talking to Zelenka in the control room with many people around him. Why didnt somebody say something instead of letting him look like and idiot.
If i was in there position I probably would have let him just go on.

He could have been talking on the radio to someone.

perkin127
November 18th, 2008, 03:18 PM
thats a good [point or maybe they learnt not to say anything after the crazyness of duet, you dont want to mess with mckay when hes going crazy!

SGAtlantisP60
November 20th, 2008, 04:47 AM
yeah i think that rodney does feel guilty for getting all the credit.. i think his character has evoled over the last 4 1/2 years because in the begining he was kinda the top scincetist who was always right and never willing to let anyone else go into the spotlight and now he is a tteamplayer most of the time.