Orgin and the Crusades

[Anon]

It came to me today during my western civ class. We were watching a vid on the crusades and Pope Urban the seconds speech. Basically how Urban got the Christian knights to go, is he said, these Muslims, they don't believe in god, they are infidels, It is god's will to kill them. The ori say, these people, they dont believe in orign, go kill the infidels, it is the Ori's will

Any body see the similarities

[jds1982]

Yeah, you know one of the Ori episodes was called "Crusade" right?

[unluckynumber11]

lol we're learning about the samething in my history class. And don't you find it ironic that the christian crusades called muslims infidels and killed them, while now it's about the exact opposite. Daniel also mentioned in "Origin" that he hopes they're not talking about going on a crusade to convert our galaxy.

[Nemises]

It came to me today during my western civ class. We were watching a vid on the crusades and Pope Urban the seconds speech. Basically how Urban got the Christian knights to go, is he said, these Muslims, they don't believe in god, they are infidels, It is god's will to kill them. The ori say, these people, they dont believe in orign, go kill the infidels, it is the Ori's will

Any body see the similarities

on the contrary muslims believe in the same god as christians.

the pope basically wanted power and more land under his domain much the same as the terrorists in the present world. Religion is a very convenient veil to hide behind and its been done throughout human history.

[Anon]

yes it is

[akren]

Many thanks to Gavatarman for starting this thread, I love posts like this!

I agree, the similarities do ring a bell, & the enslavement to false gods./ideals & becoming more than you & breaking free of the ties that bind you (whatever they may be) is a central theme that rings through the entire series of SG-1.

They do make very veiled/vauge references to Christianity & Satanism/Light vs. Dark/Good vs. Evil when compairing the Ancients with the Orii, & I can see hwo the Ascended Ancients would seem like angels & thwe Orii like devils. In the Qu'ran, it says angels are made of light & demons/djinn [genies] are made of fire. It is also interesting to note that djinn/genies arent all bad, which again draws parallels with the two factions of ascended beings.

Religion is a beautiful & dangerious thing, it can inspire the best & worst in man, as evident by both the profound good & abominal evils done in the name of one's faith - any faith - although nmonotheism does, IMHO, open up a big can of worms when one side claims to be totally right & says everyone else is automatically wrong & must conform or suffer eternal damnation, persecution, or worse (one of the reasons I myself, am personally not Christain/Muslim, but I do have some very good friends whom arwe Christina or Mulsim, & i respect their faith & their beliefs like they respect mine. ).

Such absolutes & dycotamy is dangferous & lets people do all sorts of things in the name of the in the name of the 'greater good' & advancing one's cause or beleifs (look @ Hilter, the Holy Crusades, etc). I find that if we are going to have faith, we need to have open minds, be tolerant & respectful & have faith in something - it doesnt necessarily mean one is right or wrong, just that yo have faith/believe & try & be a good person & try not to harm others (unless in self defence, & only when absolutely necessary & all other options are exhausted, IMVHO) is enough.

[Shpinxinator]

on the contrary muslims believe in the same god as christians.

the pope basically wanted power and more land under his domain much the same as the terrorists in the present world. Religion is a very convenient veil to hide behind and its been done throughout human history.

...woah...I don't think I've heard a more uninformed opinion in my life....your first point...Islam may have some similarities to Christianity but they DO NOT worship the same god...this is something I know quite a bit about.

Secondly most of the atrocities which accrued during the crusades were committed by the Knights Templar which were a group of French nobles who wanted to gain more land for themselves not the Pope

[Nemises]

...woah...I don't think I've heard a more uninformed opinion in my life....your first point...Islam may have some similarities to Christianity but they DO NOT worship the same god...this is something I know quite a bit about.

Secondly most of the atrocities which accrued during the crusades were committed by the Knights Templar which were a group of French nobles who wanted to gain more land for themselves not the Pope

Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word "Allah". For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God" - and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be "Abrahamic Faiths", and all of them are also classified as "monotheistic". However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

The only problem i see between both religions is regarding jesus christ. The christians regard him as the son of god and some even worship him (jesus christ even said not to worship him but to worship only the one god) whilst in islam he is ragarded as a prophet. Allah = God. Some arabic christians even use the word allah in the bible.

[Shpinxinator]

I understand your position and would like to continue this conversation/discussion however I doubt it would be appropriate for us to continue here...perhaps would could continue in the form of privet messages so as to keep the forums clear of a personal discussion and keep it focused on Stargate

[VSS]

...woah...I don't think I've heard a more uninformed opinion in my life....your first point...Islam may have some similarities to Christianity but they DO NOT worship the same god...this is something I know quite a bit about.

Secondly most of the atrocities which accrued during the crusades were committed by the Knights Templar which were a group of French nobles who wanted to gain more land for themselves not the Pope

Yeah, but you know, whoever came up with the Ori storyline held this uninformed opinion, too. I mean, come on, the villages are medieval, the clothes are, they use Catholic monastic words like "prior" and classic Biblical terms like "hallowed" which is straight from the most widespread Christian prayer there is. The whole arc is nothing but thinly veiled Christian bashing. I mean, at least SG-1 had the sense to pick on historical religions in the early years.

Although I did run into an Odinist the other day. But I think he'd like Thor.

Of course, it's poetic justice that this story arc help get the show cancelled, but still.

[ReFRidgerator]

on the contrary muslims believe in the same god as christians.

Actually while the religions are quite similer it isn't the same god. The muslims worship Allah, while the Christians worship a trinty.

[neiana]

Actually while the religions are quite similer it isn't the same god. The muslims worship Allah, while the Christians worship a trinty.

Because of the New Testament. "Allah" and "God" are -the same-. Go read your OT and go read the Qu'oran, ne?

And for the original post...

Yes it was very uninformed, because it was Muslims who attacked. Both sides were wrong, but both leaders held high esteem with the other. They met with each other on semi regular basis, for leaders at war.

[A_PophisandhisFran]

Actually yes, the Muslims did attack first, although it's a very common mistake that people make in assuming the Christians just went off massacring people unprovoked, and yes, both sides were at fault in many ways. Hardly the proudest part of Christian or Muslim history.

Also, from my understanding (I'm Christian and I've only read small parts of the Qu'oran) Muslims have a closer connection to Jews than to modern Christianity since the God of the Old Testament is the one who both worship and neither accept the New Testament. Moses is pretty big in both religions. So similar in some ways, yet so different in others...

As far as the Ori being a "bashing" of Christianity, I think people do insult Christianity and insult the religion very unfairly at times (alot of big comedians), but I don't think that the people involved with Stargate have gone overboard. I do believe them when they say that they were criticizing people who "go and kill people for their religion", not insulting their religion itself. I know lots of times they qualified their statements about the ancients and Ori, leaving a possibility of a god existing.

Overall in this way I think TPTB have done a great job of respecting pretty much everybody's beliefs without offending alot of people, although the Ori arc still was pretty bad quality-wise imo.

[timtheomniscient]

interesting parallel. the main difference is that the ori wanted to destroy the ancients. whereas the bible says murder is a sin. i think the ori arc really commented on the abuse of religious beliefs not the problems of religion.

[Col.Ads]

I think the Whole Ori Arc was a very good jibe at how religions can corrupt.

The whole do as we say and dont argue, whilst changing meanings of religion to suite the time and place