Wraith Actual Age vs Experienced Age/Life Experience

[Ouroboros]

This is something I've been kicking around in my head for the last little while. Basically it's generally taken for granted that the Wraith are all many thousands of years old, and I'll admit I've done as much myself. What recently occured to me though is that even though their bodies may physically have existed for X thousands of years, given how much time they spend sleeping, just how much of that time can really be counted toward the gathering of actual life experience in comparison to humans and other species who don't hibernate for hundreds of years at a time.

I made this thread to try and nail down a good ratio for this based on quotes and such from the series that I'm never going to be able to remember offhand on my own.

To give an example of what I'm talking about I want to be able to figure out the real elements to plug into a calculation as follows.

If we say that a Wraith spends 1 year out of every 500 "awake" and culling before going back into hybernation for another 500 years then that would mean that a Wraith who was physically aged 10,000 years would in actuality only have comparable life experience to a human who was 20.

That's just an example though, which is again why I made this thread. Do we actually know, or can we at least form a fairly good idea of how long they sleep between cullings and how long individual cullings/periods of activity last before they hibernate again. If we can get some sort of a handle on that we can likewise begin to aproximate the amount of life experience they would actually accumulate in X long seeming amounts of time.

It would also be helpful to know if they require ordinary sleep when not hibernating. I'm assuming a default yes for now given their obvious similarities to humans, since it's never been stated clearly one way or the other.

[dasNdanger]

I think it all depends. Some Wraith, like the one in Condemned, did take as many naps as those who had limited food supplies.

It also depends on how long a hibernation usually is (on average). If it's 200 years - or 500. For some reason, I thought maybe 500 years, based on something said in The Rising...something about the last great culling, or something (it's been a while since I saw the ep, though). So, I was under the impression that the great cullings where when the entire hive - and maybe all hives - where awake, while the smaller cullings were just to keep the keepers fed while the others slept.

If that's the case, then the years they are actually awake may vary greatly, even for Wraith born at the same time.

And then we have to figure out how long they stay awake before they go into hibernation again. I'm gonna guess that they stay awake for a few years, but probably less than 10, maybe less than 5. So, yeah - some Wraith...though very old in length of years alive, may only have 50 years or so of life's experiences. Perhaps that's why they seem so naive at times.

das

[StarOcean]

I think it all depends. Some Wraith, like the one in Condemned, did take as many naps as those who had limited food supplies.

I'm with Das's post. I think it varies. Especially when it comes to Todd. More on that below...

And then we have to figure out how long they stay awake before they go into hibernation again. I'm gonna guess that they stay awake for a few years, but probably less than 10, maybe less than 5. So, yeah - some Wraith...though very old in length of years alive, may only have 50 years or so of life's experiences. Perhaps that's why they seem so naive at times.

I would think that most of the Wraith scientists and stronger queens would stay awake longer. It seems foolish to me that they wouldn't try to advance their tech. I think it would be especially foolish, short-sighted, and complacent of Todd to not spend a lot of his time doing research and whatnot. Todd said it himself. They won the Ancient-Wraith war due to numbers. What's to say that the Ancients wouldn't come back with a larger and better fleet?

Unless he didn't discourage the other Wraiths from sleeping too much. Less competition for him. The ones that sleep less are more powerful. Early bird gets the worm.

[Giantevilhead]

But the Wraith have a psychic network so presumably they can educate younger Wraith by sharing experience and knowledge through telepathy. They also seem to get something from feeding off people other than just sustenance.

[LiquidSky]

So, does that mean that Steve was in his teenage years or maybe entering into his 20s? and Todd would be equivalent to being in his 50s. If I understand this thread are we comparing the Wraith's age with a Human's age much like we compare cats and dogs with peoples ages?

[dasNdanger]

So, does that mean that Steve was in his teenage years or maybe entering into his 20s? and Todd would be equivalent to being in his 50s. If I understand this thread are we comparing the Wraith's age with a Human's age much like we compare cats and dogs with peoples ages?

Yeah - I think we're talking 'Wraith years' here, just like we'd talk about dog years.

Steve always reminded me of a very young Wraith - probably a 'teenager', as it were. He was certainly spoiled...and beautiful. I always considered him to be young, a Wraith born well after the war...a Wraith born into a world of peace, power and prosperity.

das

[Ouroboros]

So, does that mean that Steve was in his teenage years or maybe entering into his 20s? and Todd would be equivalent to being in his 50s. If I understand this thread are we comparing the Wraith's age with a Human's age much like we compare cats and dogs with peoples ages?

Basically yes. What I'm thinking is that since Wraith spend such a grossly disproportionate amount of the lives in hibernation a Wraith that's "10,000 years old" won't actually have 10,000 years of life experience.

What I created the thread for was to see if anyone could recall any quotes from the series that might give us some insight into exactly how much time the typical average Wraith spends asleep vs awake.

We know that they need to allow the human worlds they cull to replenish in numbers before culling them again and we know that it's possible that in some cases these intervals are long enough for worlds to actually become quite advanced sicne their last culling. The Geni and Ronan's people being good examples.

We can also figure that since it seems from the majority of the evidence that each individual Wraith does have to eat several humans a year that their waking times are likely quite short compared to their hibernation times. If each Wraith needs to eat only 4 people a year then that would mean that if they stay awake for 1 year they'll then need to sleep for long enough afterward for those 4 humans each of them ate to be replaced by natural population growth.

Since it seems that their impact on pegasus civilizations is hardly trivial when they awaken this could potentially take a very long time. If the toll they take when feeding for a year reduces pegasus human numbers to something like 1/4 of what they were before the cullings began then that means that they'll need to wait until those numbers quadruple before they can reawaken to feed again. The larger of a percentage of the existing population their cullings take, the longer it's going to take the survivors to rebuild their numbers to the point that they can endure another culling in other words.

Right now I'm personally running with the idea that their hibernation cycles last at the very least a couple hundred years, with a time span closer to 500 years being probably more likely. This is just largely a guess based on me reasoning out the extent of their impact, the time it's going to take human numbers to regrow and the level of technology some societies are able to reaquire following the proverbial "bombing back into the stone age" that the Wraith employ to control human advacement. What I want to get though is harder numbers more grounded in the actual dialog of the show to base estimates of Wraith "actual experienced age" on.

I'd also like to note before anyone else really gets into them overly much that I'm not really too interested in special cases like defiant one guy, submersion queen or hive keepers right now. They're, as I just said, special cases, who's unique circumstances don't really mirror the lives of the vast majority of average Wraith males and hivequeens who just live more conventional Wraith lives and aren't really going to be useful in helping us nail down a good general ratio.

[Laura Dove]

In "The Rising", Teyla says that the last awakening was "5 generations ago". As a generation is generally considered to be 20 or 25 years, it means the last great culling was only 100 or 125 years ago. Now, the Hoffans expected the wraith to awaken in "at least 50 years", so their estimation would make a period between great cullings of, say, 150 to 200 years. That seems short.

Also, do we know how long the war with the Ancients lasted? I remember a century, but was it stated explicitly at some point? Anyway, I'm pretty sure all wraith who are at least 10,000 years old, such as Todd, didn't hibernate at all during the war. So these wraith would have a century of experience, plus the accumulated time between hibernation periods.

[Col.Ads]

Depends if you could get an average amount of time the Wraith hibernate for which is most likely 200-500 years at a time, although you would need to get a better estimate.

Then you would need to know how long they spend culling before going back into hibernation which I dont think has been mentioned before

If you have those 2 pieces of information you can estimate how long the avergae wraith is actually awake for.

we know they beat/forced the ancients to retreat around 10,000 years ago. then take into acount how long they had been fighting for which was mentioned in "Rising" although I cant remember the number. Although During the war many wraith would have been awake in order to fight it should be noted. you can then work out a rational answer to the question

[Noir]

You forget one thing in your considerations: the Wraith technics. How long do you think does a race need to develop a hyperdrive or spaceships? And could the Wraith manage this within that short time they are said to be awake? I don't think so. There must have been a long time the entire Wraith had been awake without hibernation in which they made all the technological experiences they have now.

And have you ever thought about how long it takes for a race to develop from a stone age culture (I don't think the bug know anything about technics) to a space travelling race? And what about the time that bug needed to evolve into a humanoid being? We needed 65 million years to get what we are and that bug should have managed this within 10.000 years? Ridiculous!

The whole evolution of the Wraith the writers dished us up is complete nonsense!

[Ouroboros]

You forget one thing in your considerations: the Wraith technics. How long do you think does a race need to develop a hyperdrive or spaceships? And could the Wraith manage this within that short time they are said to be awake? I don't think so. There must have been a long time the entire Wraith had been awake without hibernation in which they made all the technological experiences they have now.

And have you ever thought about how long it takes for a race to develop from a stone age culture (I don't think the bug know anything about technics) to a space travelling race? And what about the time that bug needed to evolve into a humanoid being? We needed 65 million years to get what we are and that bug should have managed this within 10.000 years? Ridiculous!

The way I see it this was likely all done before their initial conflict with the ancients and the population explosion that brought about. After that their previously dramatic scientific advancement largely ground to a standstill because they had to sleep too much. It also accounts for why their ships haven't really changed since then.

The whole evolution of the Wraith the writers dished us up is complete nonsense!

You'll get no argument from me there. 5 years later and it still condtradicts itself. That's not really what I want this thread to be about though, there've been lots of threads about how goofed up and nonsensical the Wraith origne story is.

Who cares, dude? So much thinking over something so irrelevant.

I'd say this topic is at least as interesting as anything else on this page right now. It's relevant because it gives us an idea of what their competency/experience level will actually be like and potentially explains why people like Dex can actually be better fighters than some Wraith warriors.

If Wraith warriors were all really carrying around thousands of years of waking combat experience you'd expect them to be ridiculously, terrifyingly good at every possible facet of warfare from hand to hand combat to piloting a dart.

They're not though, and this can help explain why.

[NoobTau'ri]

I'd say this topic is at least as interesting as anything else on this page right now. It's relevant because it gives us an idea of what their competency/experience level will actually be like and potentially explains why people like Dex can actually be better fighters than some Wraith warriors.

If Wraith warriors were all really carrying around thousands of years of waking combat experience you'd expect them to be ridiculously, terrifyingly good at every possible facet of warfare from hand to hand combat to piloting a dart.

They're not though, and this can help explain why.

Fair enough. That is a convincing well thought out argument and you have convinced me that the thread is not irrelevant. Furthermore, you did it without resorting to insults in a polite fashion, which earns you extra points.

[Ouroboros]

Can we stop with the derail now please.

[Todds worshipper]

I believe the lower Wraith were put to sleep, and that the higher ones stayed awake, being Keepers to the Hive, after all, some needed to go cull, and somewhat advance their technology, perhaps even keep an eye on other Hives, as they could be lurking to eliminate competition, or whatever.

I believe Todd was one that stayed awake, since it's somewhat likely that he got captured while being on a mission for his Hive, during the big hibernation.

Someone in the Wraith thread, or on Todd's thread, pointed out that in "Underground" they said that the Genii were able to take down a Dart many generations ago, and get their hands on one of those information storage devices? Whatever they call them. It might have been Todd.

I remember that post, after she mentioned it I re-watched the episode too and she's right, it is possible that TPTB thought it would link together nicely...wish we knew for sure though

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they put together an official novel detailing his entire life?!?!?!? (a few pages would just be "zzzzzzzzzzzz" though )

[dasNdanger]

...If Wraith warriors were all really carrying around thousands of years of waking combat experience you'd expect them to be ridiculously, terrifyingly good at every possible facet of warfare from hand to hand combat to piloting a dart.

They're not though, and this can help explain why.

Exactly! This is one thing that really annoys me - how incompetent the Wraith can be in hand-to-hand fighting, when their very life depends on success in such fighting in order to survive.

If we want to compare the Wraith to lions - well, a lion doesn't have too much trouble bringing down one hyena. We should be seeing Wraith taking out humans left and right in hand-to-hand battle with little effort, and ONLY see the Wraith defeated when several 'hyenas', or humans, team up on them together. But by constantly showing one human (hyena) taking down several Wraith (lions) at once, it just doesn't make sense, since they are supposed to be such expert fighters and hunters.

Hey - did you see Hellboy II by any chance? One thing I really loved about it was that the Prince, who was supposed to be an expert fighter - WAS AN EXPERT FIGHTER. It was so good to see someone who is supposed to be better than everyone else actually come through, and prove his abilities.

We have seen very few Wraith do this - Steve, perhaps - but then he was stunned...in the back. The Satedan uberWraith had to be taken down by a drone. The Defiant One, same thing. Todd has been totally badass in hand-to-hand, so no complaints there...yet. But most have fallen like flies, putting up little fight, if any at all.

So, it makes sense to compare 'Wraith years' to human years. Todd, at over 10,000 years old, may have the life experiences and skills of a 50-year old human. That could mean that a 5000-year old Wraith may only have the life experiences of a 25-year old human. Using that sort of reasoning, then a 2500-year old Wraith would be like a pre-teen, and a Wraith only a 100-years old would be almost like a newborn, experience-wise.

But it really all depends - not on how long they sleep (which we can kinda figure out) - but on how long they are awake. No clues have been given as to how many years the average Wraith stays awake between hibernations. This I would like to know.

das