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GateWorld
November 10th, 2008, 06:06 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s3/villains/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/villains.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px #000000 solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">HEROES SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s3/villains/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">VILLAINS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 308</FONT>
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A series of flashbacks reveal the Company's early investigation of Gabriel Gray, Arthur Petrelli's connection to Linderman and betrayal of his family, and Meredith's chance at becoming a Company agent.

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Exiled Master
November 10th, 2008, 07:32 PM
From the last thing I saw, everyone in Heroes is either working for the company, dead, or screwed. Peter's theory on Sylar may be the only thing between Arthur and his ultimate victory (though I fail to see his ultimate motivation, nor how the Ultimatum-class (to borrow from the events of Marvel Ultimate) disaster is meant to come about).
Rule of Heroes: Precogs must always die before the end of the storyline.

the fifth man
November 10th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Man, I thought tonight's episode was insanely good. It really tied a lot of things together from early on in Heroes with what is going on now. Next week should really be something too.:)

Arative
November 10th, 2008, 07:55 PM
I can see why those two writers got fired. They basically just ignore every previous bit of story in order to write an episode. It was shown last year that Elle spent her entire life at Primatech, and as a result was this unsocialized girl-child that viewed everyone as her plaything. They referenced this last week. Now this week they show her that she's a perfectly socialized person, and good and decent - nevermind this goes against the material, what, 8 episodes ago, when she tortures Peter in Prima-prison and kills Irish girl's bro without a hint of remorse.

Devid
November 10th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Lost Season 3 Episodes are awesome....I saw season 3 of Lost Last week...

Bobby
November 10th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Man, I thought tonight's episode was insanely good. It really tied a lot of things together from early on in Heroes with what is going on now. Next week should really be something too.:)

Yep i agree with you 100%.

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
November 10th, 2008, 11:47 PM
So it seems Arthur is pissed about being paralyzed by Angela and after a year wants to continue his plans rebuilding the world. Here's my 2cents, he is another well developed enemy and if he exits in a similar matter as Adam, i am done with this show. Thats it nuff said.

And once again i am correct about another assumption regarding the trailer for next weeks episode!

mr_kennedy
November 11th, 2008, 12:58 AM
great episode

i liked learning about how that fire started in season 1 :) great continuety there

and flint and meridth being siblings was totally obvious

i hope hiro is ok, my bet is sylar saves the day lol that rhynes, and that power transfer thing of sylar's will be used to give peter his power's back

lunarleviathan
November 11th, 2008, 02:22 AM
Flashback episodes should not be this good. A lot of things make sense now with the Petrelli family back story. The Elle and Sylar thing was great. Glad to see more Elle! I wonder if Sylar's future baby was also Elle's? ;)

The Meredith and brother story was a little tangential, but it was good stuff. I don't get why Hiro would dream about that though. Neither character appears to be especially central or important to the events of the show. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

mr_kennedy
November 11th, 2008, 03:55 AM
maybe cus they were in the company? :rolleyes: i dont know lol

Klenotka
November 11th, 2008, 09:37 AM
Is it me or is everybody, even distant, connected to Petrelli freaky family? :D
Meredith is Claireīs mother, and Meredithīs brother is a crazy villain....you donīt choose a family, right? :D I wonder if Hiro isnīt Nathanīs fourth cousin or something like that :D

Anyway, after some time, a good episode. But I think itīs impossible for Elle to work with Noah before - she seems not to know him before S2. There are some holes in continuity here. Why didnīt Angela or Arthur stop Noah from doing this to their son? Or they didnīt know?

Meredith is good, thought. I like her. Now when she stopped waving a flame in her palm and started to use a real fire, I like her even more. Her "God gave you older sister instead of brain" was a cool quote :D

Skydiver
November 11th, 2008, 10:58 AM
or if angela really wanted to kill her husband, she had plenty of opportunity as he laid in a bed veggified out

some cool connections in some cases, in others i just lacked.

you know, my vcr messed up and i missed last week's eps...and i don't feel like i missed a thing :)

Trek_Girl42
November 11th, 2008, 11:55 AM
Wasn't it said in season one that Mr. Petrelli was found in the bathroom? Nearly this entire episode really didn't sit right at all, it feels like mostly pointless back story shoved in awkwardly to try and make it fit but just makes everything even MORE confusing- I can't even what they're goal to try and stop this season is. And yeah, I'd fire whoever is coming up with this stuff too. :S

This show is so frakking confusing that I can't even remember what happened from one week to the next! :rolleyes:

*sigh* The only reason I still watch is that it's on at a time where I need to sit down for an hour and am too lazy to put a DVD in.....

Phenix
November 11th, 2008, 12:03 PM
If you do not think about the plots then this is a great episode. However, if you are not the scarecrow then this is a very poorly written episode and another example of Kring's hatred of plot development.

In the hands of a true writer this would be a brilliant series. Instead it might not make it to next season.

Can you imagine what someone like Joss Whedon could do with this concept?

JayShadow
November 11th, 2008, 12:50 PM
In the hands of a true writer this would be a brilliant series. Instead it might not make it to next season.

You obviously haven't seen the rest of NBC's shows. Heroes won't have a problem being back next season.

This season feels like it's been written by fanfic writers instead of the actual writers.

knowles2
November 11th, 2008, 01:34 PM
I can see why those two writers got fired. They basically just ignore every previous bit of story in order to write an episode. It was shown last year that Elle spent her entire life at Primatech, and as a result was this unsocialized girl-child that viewed everyone as her plaything. They referenced this last week. Now this week they show her that she's a perfectly socialized person, and good and decent - nevermind this goes against the material, what, 8 episodes ago, when she tortures Peter in Prima-prison and kills Irish girl's bro without a hint of remorse.

Actually Elle look awkward interacting with Sylar, like was not actually use to interacting with people, through those scenes were, she felt so force it was not even funny. Pie, I mean come on who comes around with pie nowadays, she got that one watching far to many 60s films.

Other than that I thought it was alright through really would of thought Angela would liked made sure her mind bend manipulative husband was really dead and had the company doctors check him out and well put a wooden stake in his heart or something.

I like how it seem Linderman had feelings for her, almost make him look like the caring type, I said almost by the way.

Thought the line about the god giving you a older sister instead of a brain was funny.

I actually hope the the African guy is not dead after all it seem to me that Hero was just having vision, although if Arthur did what he did to Angela to Hero then he also out of the fight for the rest of the season. It going to be interesting to see how his side kick handles the responsibility of saving the world.

And we know now it most likely peter had Linderman powers which explains how Nathan was healed in the hospital.

Whole and do not blame the writers, it the studio that signs of on the scripts and it their fault for letting it go to filming. Through I thought it was a pretty good ep, one of the better ones this season, through I will wait until I get a descent version of it to make my judgement, watching anything with 5 to 10 seconds sound delay is not good.

Whole just someone said what are we saving the world from, it not a single thing this seasons , It the wider availabilities powers which destroys the world in the future and that what our heroes are fighting to stop. Plus what ever Arthur plans for remaking the world are.
How does this include Arthur I do know and how he stop Angela from seeing the future I ain't figured out yet.

mr_kennedy
November 11th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Is it me or is everybody, even distant, connected to Petrelli freaky family? :D
Meredith is Claireīs mother, and Meredithīs brother is a crazy villain....you donīt choose a family, right? :D I wonder if Hiro isnīt Nathanīs fourth cousin or something like that :D

Anyway, after some time, a good episode. But I think itīs impossible for Elle to work with Noah before - she seems not to know him before S2. There are some holes in continuity here. Why didnīt Angela or Arthur stop Noah from doing this to their son? Or they didnīt know?

Meredith is good, thought. I like her. Now when she stopped waving a flame in her palm and started to use a real fire, I like her even more. Her "God gave you older sister instead of brain" was a cool quote :D

*laughs*

well hiro was adopted.......... im just saying ya know

maybe angela wasnt aware of what noah was doing to her son, or maybe aurther mind wiped her

Exiled Master
November 11th, 2008, 02:10 PM
I can see why those two writers got fired. They basically just ignore every previous bit of story in order to write an episode. It was shown last year that Elle spent her entire life at Primatech, and as a result was this unsocialized girl-child that viewed everyone as her plaything. They referenced this last week. Now this week they show her that she's a perfectly socialized person, and good and decent - nevermind this goes against the material, what, 8 episodes ago, when she tortures Peter in Prima-prison and kills Irish girl's bro without a hint of remorse.
The beauty of having the Haitian in the story is that you can retcon without mucking around with time travel.
Whatever happened to that Meredith's baseline partner? I want to see him somewhere in this.

mr_kennedy
November 11th, 2008, 02:29 PM
^ he was in the webisodes or atleast he was in the 1st one

MmmmMcKAy
November 11th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Wasn't it said in season one that Mr. Petrelli was found in the bathroom? Nearly this entire episode really didn't sit right at all, it feels like mostly pointless back story shoved in awkwardly to try and make it fit but just makes everything even MORE confusing- I can't even what they're goal to try and stop this season is. And yeah, I'd fire whoever is coming up with this stuff too. :S

This show is so frakking confusing that I can't even remember what happened from one week to the next! :rolleyes:

*sigh* The only reason I still watch is that it's on at a time where I need to sit down for an hour and am too lazy to put a DVD in.....


Your comment about Heroes being confusing sums up my feelings completely. I like the show. I want to like it more. But they're trying to hard, I think. Why does the show have to be needlessly difficult to follow? Isn't there a better way to present it?

Phenix
November 11th, 2008, 08:43 PM
You obviously haven't seen the rest of NBC's shows. Heroes won't have a problem being back next season.

This season feels like it's been written by fanfic writers instead of the actual writers.

I only watch Heroes on NBC. Usually I'm a HBO or Showtime guy.

mr_kennedy
November 11th, 2008, 10:33 PM
Wasn't it said in season one that Mr. Petrelli was found in the bathroom? Nearly this entire episode really didn't sit right at all, it feels like mostly pointless back story shoved in awkwardly to try and make it fit but just makes everything even MORE confusing- I can't even what they're goal to try and stop this season is. And yeah, I'd fire whoever is coming up with this stuff too. :S

This show is so frakking confusing that I can't even remember what happened from one week to the next! :rolleyes:

*sigh* The only reason I still watch is that it's on at a time where I need to sit down for an hour and am too lazy to put a DVD in.....

your right about mr petrelli i think angela said that he was found in the bathroom, but when you think about it angela was the one trying to kill him

eri-chan
November 11th, 2008, 11:33 PM
i like this ep a lot. (one of) the only thing(s) that stuck out to me was how Out Of Character elle was. where did her daddy complex go? i mean i know bob wasn't in it but i gathered that elle looked up to noah and there was't any of that awkwardness they usually have. and none of elle trying to get the one-up she's always trying to do when it comes to working for the company. you put her with noah, of course she's going to want to try to be better than him. idk. i kinda thought sylar and elle were cute tho :D but yeah elle was still ooc.

i thought angela kicked butt. i think that linderman liked her. that look he gave her when he really wanted to heal the scars. there was a lot of emotion behind that look imo :D

meredith's LINE. that seriously made me LOL. i didn't click that they were brother and sister til it was mentioned. i should've seen that one coming :confused:

Trek_Girl42
November 12th, 2008, 12:06 AM
If you do not think about the plots then this is a great episode. However, if you are not the scarecrow then this is a very poorly written episode and another example of Kring's hatred of plot development. Couldn't agree more. :rolleyes:


This season feels like it's been written by fanfic writers instead of the actual writers.Pretty much. :P


your right about mr petrelli i think angela said that he was found in the bathroom, but when you think about it angela was the one trying to kill himThen why lie about it? Nathan was there, there is absolutely no reason to say he had a heart attack in the bathroom when they found him in the dining room and the incident looked exactly the same! Now if I can remember that from, what was it, one of the first five eps aired and I've never re-watched any of them, then the people in charge of this show should be able to catch that.

mr_kennedy
November 12th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Couldn't agree more. :rolleyes:

Pretty much. :P

Then why lie about it? Nathan was there, there is absolutely no reason to say he had a heart attack in the bathroom when they found him in the dining room and the incident looked exactly the same! Now if I can remember that from, what was it, one of the first five eps aired and I've never re-watched any of them, then the people in charge of this show should be able to catch that.

i just asumed it was for peter's benefit and then later on nathans, but ultimatly i thought it was just for peter's benefit

the one thing i do have a problem with it was too soon before peter actually developed his powers, i mean they didnt talk about it at all so it seemed like it happened a year or 2 prior to the events of season 1, but it didnt, i know when i lost my dad i made a huge deal about it we talked about it all the time :( but they all just seem to shrug it off in season 1 as if nothing happened

it is a petty thing to complain about i know but i just think they should have worked around arther petrelli's death abit more in season 1

am i making any sense? not that i should really bother worrying about making sense this is heroes after all :p

Arative
November 12th, 2008, 07:44 AM
Couldn't agree more. :rolleyes:

Pretty much. :P

Then why lie about it? Nathan was there, there is absolutely no reason to say he had a heart attack in the bathroom when they found him in the dining room and the incident looked exactly the same! Now if I can remember that from, what was it, one of the first five eps aired and I've never re-watched any of them, then the people in charge of this show should be able to catch that.

Its because the writers are sloppy and don't care about continuity. That's why ratings have fallen and that's why they were fired. This episode pretty much contradicted every other episode. HRG spent most of season 1 trying to figure out why Sylar was but now, he knew about him? Sylar clearly returned to Suresh immediately after his first kill, Brian Davis, and also stated that it was Suresh that made him into a killer. Now they're trying to convince us that The Company had a hand in it. That Elle basically fed him the magic bullet man?

LOST and BSG have shown us that serial fantasy sci-fi-ish shows can be done well if there's enough talent in the writing room and a firm, coherent vision by the showrunners. That appears to be what Heroes is lacking.

The fact that so many are upset with the direction of the show indicates that there are a lot of folks who want it to succeed, to fulfill the promise it showed during the first season. But the producers and writers appear to have lost their way, and they're losing viewers by the bushel because of it.

jds1982
November 12th, 2008, 01:16 PM
So am I the only one who realized Goth boy fired mind bullets?

Anyway I thought a lot of the episode seemed, like it didn't fit. The whole Sylar story was dumb, and the only thing that worked was the Angela Petrelli storyline (which rocked).

mr_kennedy
November 12th, 2008, 02:25 PM
goth boy?

jds1982
November 12th, 2008, 02:31 PM
goth boy?

The kid Sylar killed.

mr_kennedy
November 12th, 2008, 04:02 PM
The kid Sylar killed.

oh right that guy yeh i did i just didnt think it was worth mentioning

The Prophet
November 12th, 2008, 06:59 PM
The beauty of having the Haitian in the story is that you can retcon without mucking around with time travel.
Whatever happened to that Meredith's baseline partner? I want to see him somewhere in this.

You mean Mr Thompson?

He was killed by HRG in Landslide.

I felt this episode was good, but will be only used as a set-up for future plots, nothing tangible really happened (it being a flashback and all).

I was thinking earlier today about Meredith/ Flint being lovers. Siblings make much more sense xD

It would make much more sense for Gothboy to have Freezing powers, imho. That's the only power we've seen Sylar possess without knowing it's source. Instead of Mind-Bullet powers, which telekinesis is vastly superior to.

jds1982
November 12th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Instead of Mind-Bullet powers, which telekinesis is vastly superior to.

That's telekinesis Kyle.

Phenix
November 12th, 2008, 07:50 PM
i just asumed it was for peter's benefit and then later on nathans, but ultimatly i thought it was just for peter's benefit

the one thing i do have a problem with it was too soon before peter actually developed his powers, i mean they didnt talk about it at all so it seemed like it happened a year or 2 prior to the events of season 1, but it didnt, i know when i lost my dad i made a huge deal about it we talked about it all the time :( but they all just seem to shrug it off in season 1 as if nothing happened

it is a petty thing to complain about i know but i just think they should have worked around arther petrelli's death abit more in season 1

am i making any sense? not that i should really bother worrying about making sense this is heroes after all :p

That makes far too much sense.

Also, why would Angela be so upset about them killing off Nathan if she was setting up Peter to explode?

The writers of Heroes are destroying the show.

mr_kennedy
November 12th, 2008, 11:27 PM
That makes far too much sense.

Also, why would Angela be so upset about them killing off Nathan if she was setting up Peter to explode?

The writers of Heroes are destroying the show.

well she must have loved him at one for her to marry him so she would be a tad upset yes?

but i was reffering to peter & nathan in that post they never really made a big deal out of it

eh i dont know why she would protect nathan to kill peter, maybe she knew he had been in contact with claire and would survive

AvatarIII
November 13th, 2008, 03:20 AM
It would make much more sense for Gothboy to have Freezing powers, imho. That's the only power we've seen Sylar possess without knowing it's source. Instead of Mind-Bullet powers, which telekinesis is vastly superior to.

i always assumed freezing came from molly's dad, hence why he was frozen; sylar was testing his new power.


That's telekinesis Kyle.

how about the power to move you. ;)

flameling
November 13th, 2008, 01:08 PM
I liked the general plot lines, except the Sylar-Elle story. Elle just seemed weird. I have to say one of the best parts was Meredith's line to Flint, no make that entire intaraction some of the best parts. And I hate how they ignored all continuity though and I never thought we never saw Sylar use that kid's power. And once again, Atrhur was found in the bathroom? And invisible man? Claude? I love the character but didn't he leave the company before the burning train? And why not show him? Just a few thoughts.

Aerilon
November 15th, 2008, 08:37 AM
Also, why would Angela be so upset about them killing off Nathan if she was setting up Peter to explode?Because Peter can heal, Nathan cannot.

Phenix
November 16th, 2008, 01:03 PM
Because Peter can heal, Nathan cannot.

Rewatch season one. No one knew that Peter could heal until later in the season. Angela was setting her son up to explode and kill millions of people in New York. Did she try to kill Arthur because he was manipulating her mind or because he was trying to kill Nathan? I like that they are turning him into the big bad from the beginning but I think it'd make more sense if she tried to kill him because she was enraged that Arthur was abusing her mind.

I appreciate that Heroes wants its characters to evolve but this flashback is forced and really changes Angela. If she was willing to kill her husband to save Nathan then why set up Peter to explode. In the beginning of the season she did not know that Peter would survive.

It could just be as simple that she has always preferred Nathan to Peter. The convo Peter over heard towards the end of Season One seemed to indicate that Angela preferred Nathan over Peter.

Hope this all makes sense. :)

The Prophet
November 17th, 2008, 10:04 AM
Rewatch season one. No one knew that Peter could heal until later in the season.

Angela has prophetic dreams, she could have worked out that Peter would mimic healing from Claire (also, she did have Claire brought back to their house, probably to engineer Peter mimicing her powers, if he hadnt done already. She could have easily brought him to see Adam too, in the Company's Cell, any of these methods would have ensured Peter's survival.

(1,900th post! :D)

Phenix
November 17th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Angela has prophetic dreams, she could have worked out that Peter would mimic healing from Claire (also, she did have Claire brought back to their house, probably to engineer Peter mimicing her powers, if he hadnt done already. She could have easily brought him to see Adam too, in the Company's Cell, any of these methods would have ensured Peter's survival.

(1,900th post! :D)

In season one she seems surprised that Peter will survive the blast. She could have done a lot but until he goes to save the cheerleader it is assumed that he'd die in the blast.

rogue12
November 17th, 2008, 05:11 PM
cant wait to see what arthur has done to hiro, by looks he didnt take his power cause you see that white ghost coming out of the victims body when he does.

AvatarIII
November 19th, 2008, 05:37 AM
cant wait to see what arthur has done to hiro, by looks he didnt take his power cause you see that white ghost coming out of the victims body when he does.

he doesn't need to steal powers any more, he already has peters.

Matt G
November 24th, 2008, 03:28 PM
OK...

1. Company knew about Syer pre-S1. As people have said WTF?

2. Meredith's backstory was interesting.

3. The Petrelli storyline sort of makes sense.

4. Is Hiro powerless?

Not sure what to make of this one.

garhkal
January 10th, 2016, 02:55 PM
great episode

i liked learning about how that fire started in season 1 :) great continuety there

and flint and meridth being siblings was totally obvious

I disagree on Merr and Flint being siblings was obvious, but i did like how they had the tie back to the house burning...


I don't get why Hiro would dream about that though. Neither character appears to be especially central or important to the events of the show. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Well, that same 'vision quest paste' made parkman dream too.. So maybe it some how acts as a 'temp precog ability'??


or if angela really wanted to kill her husband, she had plenty of opportunity as he laid in a bed veggified out

Thing is she thought he WAS dead, and only that doc who got mind shanked knew the truth..


Actually Elle look awkward interacting with Sylar, like was not actually use to interacting with people, through those scenes were, she felt so force it was not even funny. Pie, I mean come on who comes around with pie nowadays, she got that one watching far to many 60s films.


She did seem awkward as heck doing those scenes, but maybe that was cause she felt wrong about getting Gabriel to go all Sylar..


Other than that I thought it was alright through really would of thought Angela would liked made sure her mind bend manipulative husband was really dead and had the company doctors check him out and well put a wooden stake in his heart or something.


Maybe she just didn't think things through enough.. But i know if it was me, i would have made sure myself he was a gonner..


Thought the line about the god giving you a older sister instead of a brain was funny.


I lol'ed at that..


The beauty of having the Haitian in the story is that you can retcon without mucking around with time travel.
Whatever happened to that Meredith's baseline partner? I want to see him somewhere in this.

You mean Eric Roberts? Wasn't he killed by Noah later on (well in S1 in the present)??


So am I the only one who realized Goth boy fired mind bullets?


I liked that too.. BUT i was wondering why we have never seen Sylar shown those powers at any other time??



4. Is Hiro powerless?.

Nope. It just looked to me like he had his memory erased.