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FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:01 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

jonos101
November 8th, 2008, 04:06 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

I actully thought of that myself but I came to the conclusion that without him it wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect.

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:10 AM
I actully thought of that myself but I came to the conclusion that without him it wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect.
But that's the problem with Atlantis. I really liked this episode, I really did, but some of the things just made me, in retrospect, like it less.

The writers often (too often) sacrifice realism, logic or just respect for their character's faculties by having them do horrendously stupid things (especially the villains) for "dramatic effect".

Let's not reduce our villains to "dramatic effect", shall we? Let's have them act like the rational, logical, intelligent and insidious villains they supposedly are.

Sasso
November 8th, 2008, 04:14 AM
Well he didn't really have a choice in fighting Shep at the top of the tower.

For the staying behind thing.... Eh I dunno. He probably wanted to personally convince Teyla.

jonos101
November 8th, 2008, 04:16 AM
I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice

Maybe it was just one of those times for Michael. ;)

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:20 AM
Maybe it was just one of those times for Michael. ;)
Yes, but unless Michael is the Ba'al of Atlantis and went and cloned himself (or his minions clone him themselves now that they're without a leader), he is not expendable like Sam.

With Michael gone, there will be no one to lead his minions, his plan will never see fruition. He's also an Evil Boss Character. Sam was just some hero type leader who was willing to die for the greater good.

Michael, not so much. He just wants his evil plan to come true and live to see it... and rule the galaxy. To, in that situation, forcibly put oneself in the path of danger? Not so smart.

This is why evil leaders have minions.

talyn2k1
November 8th, 2008, 04:25 AM
Michael's relationship with Atlantis means that his judgement is clouded whenever he deals with them, especially Teyla & Torren.

If you hated someone as much as Michael hates Atlantis, wouldn't you want to be around to see your master plan for revenge come to fruition, I know I would.

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Michael's relationship with Atlantis means that his judgement is clouded whenever he deals with them, especially Teyla & Torren.

If you hated someone as much as Michael hates Atlantis, wouldn't you want to be around to see your master plan for revenge come to fruition, I know I would.
This would've been great logic had he planned to actually be there when his master plan for revenge came to fruition. But he couldn't have been as there would've been no escape afterwards. So he'd planned on taking Torren (and maybe Teyla), setting the self-destruct and then leaving before it blew up the city.

So he wouldn't actually have seen anything come to fruition (personally).

jonos101
November 8th, 2008, 04:28 AM
With Michael gone, there will be no one to lead his minions, his plan will never see fruition.

Would Michael care if someone carried on with his plan after he died. I was under the impression he was in this for him.

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:31 AM
Would Michael care if someone carried on with his plan after he died. I was under the impression he was in this for him.
But that's the point! He doesn't want to die. He wants to live and rule the galaxy. He's not doing what he's doing for someone else (like Sam for Earth), he's not doing it for the greater good (like rationalizing villains), he's doing it for himself, plain and simple.

Therefore, it would be more logical for him not to deliberately put himself in harm's way, especially when he has minions to do his bidding for himself.

jenks
November 8th, 2008, 04:34 AM
I'm sure he went to Atlantis in the fully expecting to survive, obviously. Plus he probably wanted to try and convince Teyla himself.

talyn2k1
November 8th, 2008, 04:38 AM
This would've been great logic had he planned to actually be there when his master plan for revenge came to fruition. But he couldn't have been as there would've been no escape afterwards. So he'd planned on taking Torren (and maybe Teyla), setting the self-destruct and then leaving before it blew up the city.

So he wouldn't actually have seen anything come to fruition (personally).

I don't think it was just about getting revenge by blowing up Atlantis, I think there was a certain element of forcing Teyla to see that everything he had done was because of Atlantis. Also, I think he wanted Teyla to come with him because he still remembers how she was the only one who spoke out against the experiments that Atlantis did on him, and he wanted to give her a chance to live.
Plus, walking the halls of Atlantis would've sweetened his victory more than instructing the hybrids over radio.

You're right though, even if all the above is true, he didn't HAVE to go to Atlantis. But as I said in my first post, his judgement is clouded when it comes to Atlantis and that has been the downfall of many a villain.

Besides, from a story telling perspective, the episode wouldn't have had nearly as much impact if Michael wasn't there.

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:38 AM
I'm sure he went to Atlantis in the fully expecting to survive, obviously.
That's not the point. Smart evil villains don't forcefully put themselves at risk of dying when they can avoid it, unless they've made it a point to be one of those evil villains that love danger and want to personally take part in every battle.


Plus he probably wanted to try and convince Teyla himself.
He likes Teyla, yes. But enough to risk his life just to try to convince him to become his live-in nanny?

"The Nanny - Atlantis Edition"

jenks
November 8th, 2008, 04:45 AM
That's not the point. Smart evil villains don't forcefully put themselves at risk of dying when they can avoid it, unless they've made it a point to be one of those evil villains that love danger and want to personally take part in every battle.

I think he though seeing Teyla and supervising the mission outweighed his perceived lack of danger, and you have to remember that this was probably a last ditch attempt to get himself back on track, he would have wanted to make sure it was done right.


He likes Teyla, yes. But enough to risk his life just to try to convince him to become his live-in nanny?

"The Nanny - Atlantis Edition"



And you don't think there was more to it than that?

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 04:48 AM
And you don't think there was more to it than that?
What, trying to pursuade Teyla to come with him? No, I don't think so. Especially when he was fully prepared to drop her and leave her to die should she choose to. I mean, he he really wanted her to come with him, he could've just forced her to go.

Kratos_Goauld_of_War
November 8th, 2008, 05:02 AM
See, I was assuming he was just crazy. Nuts. Insane. Bonzo. No longer in possession of one's faculties. Three fries short of a happy meal...WACKO!:jack_new_anime05:


He seemed to have slipped over the edge from cold calculating villain to total nut job after we blew all his toys up.

Laura Dove
November 8th, 2008, 05:04 AM
That's not the point. Smart evil villains don't forcefully put themselves at risk of dying when they can avoid it, unless they've made it a point to be one of those evil villains that love danger and want to personally take part in every battle.

Michael is not a smart evil villain, he's a smart insane villain. I completely understand him wanting to be part of the attack force, if only because death would be the outcome of a failure anyway. Remember why he became such a dangerous bad guy: Because, to begin with, both human and wraith tried to kill him. That's the reason why he does what he does. Between waiting for death to catch him and taking risks in hope to avoid it, he chose the latter, in a very wraith-like "no retreat in the face of battle" fashion.

Starsaber
November 8th, 2008, 06:36 AM
Maybe he's the only one of the hybrids with the ATA gene, so he had to go to pilot the jumper.

FallenAngelII
November 8th, 2008, 07:29 AM
Michael is not a smart evil villain, he's a smart insane villain. I completely understand him wanting to be part of the attack force, if only because death would be the outcome of a failure anyway. Remember why he became such a dangerous bad guy: Because, to begin with, both human and wraith tried to kill him. That's the reason why he does what he does. Between waiting for death to catch him and taking risks in hope to avoid it, he chose the latter, in a very wraith-like "no retreat in the face of battle" fashion.
I see what you mean. But smart insane villains are still, you know, smart.

And failure would mean he could come back another day to try to kidnap Torren again, instead of instant death.

Laura Dove
November 8th, 2008, 07:43 AM
I see what you mean. But smart insane villains are still, you know, smart.
And failure would mean he could come back another day to try to kidnap Torren again, instead of instant death.

I don't think he reasons that way. Also each with passing day, chances increase he'll be killed either by humans or by wraith. I really think he was desperate, especially after being so close to success in "Search & Rescue". I think he saw this attack as his last chance.

Ikaros
November 8th, 2008, 08:33 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

He was clearly there for Teyla. Desperate, unfulfilled love etc......
Even after he got DNA from her baby he stayed to persuade her to go with him.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
November 8th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Maybe Teyla. But I think he likes to do things personally, and there may have been the issue of keeping his troops under control. They are brainwashed, after all.

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 02:55 PM
And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

OMG, that was one of the most epic parts of the episode. This was a story arc started from Season 2 coming to an end. It was excellent how it was done. Teyla coming to help later not only made it better it made it almost perfect.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:00 PM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

Michael's gone insane. He's not rational. Also I think he and those hybrids were all that was left of his organizization: in The Seed Woolsey said that they dismantled it and Michael pretty much confirmed it when talking to Teyla. I think those hybrids escaped the destruction of his crusier with him and they were all that was left so they were the only ones that could invade Atlantis. Also Michael seems to be very hands on so he probably wanted to do it himself.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Yes, but unless Michael is the Ba'al of Atlantis and went and cloned himself (or his minions clone him themselves now that they're without a leader), he is not expendable like Sam.

With Michael gone, there will be no one to lead his minions, his plan will never see fruition. He's also an Evil Boss Character. Sam was just some hero type leader who was willing to die for the greater good.

Michael, not so much. He just wants his evil plan to come true and live to see it... and rule the galaxy. To, in that situation, forcibly put oneself in the path of danger? Not so smart.

This is why evil leaders have minions.

He has no minions. Those hybrids with him were his last remaning ones. The rest were reverted back by Keller and all of his mercanaries were disbanded. They said so in The Seed when briefing Woolsey. Michael and those hybrids with him were the last remaning members of his organization so there was no one else for him to send.

Cruor
November 8th, 2008, 05:00 PM
I think the most important reasons why Michael was there has allready been said:

1. Micheal is likely the only one of his minions with the ATA gene to pilot the jumper, given to him by his carson clone.

2. Michael most likely needs to be in the same solarsystem, given the finite range of the wraith mindlink, that lets him exert his brainwashing and level of control over his minions which he seeks to improve with Torrens DNA. So I don't reckon Michael will have a lot of minions left behind either.

3. His desire for revenge being so fierce that he would have it no other way than playing an instrumental role in the destruction of Atlantis and getting his hands on Teyla and Torren.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 05:04 PM
That's not the point. Smart evil villains don't forcefully put themselves at risk of dying when they can avoid it, unless they've made it a point to be one of those evil villains that love danger and want to personally take part in every battle.


He likes Teyla, yes. But enough to risk his life just to try to convince him to become his live-in nanny?

"The Nanny - Atlantis Edition"

I think that after his crusiers destruction he and those hybrids were all that was left as Atlantis dismantled his organization as stated in The Seed. They probably escaped together and being all that was left probably needed everyone they had for the assult

jonos101
November 8th, 2008, 05:05 PM
Maybe he's the only one of the hybrids with the ATA gene, so he had to go to pilot the jumper.

That's actully a good point. :)

FallenAngelII
November 9th, 2008, 05:16 AM
This discussion brought up good and valid points for why Michael "had" to be there. Let's just hope he had the decency to clone himself. I mean, he has cloning technology.

g.o.d
November 9th, 2008, 08:12 AM
OMG, that was one of the most epic parts of the episode. This was a story arc started from Season 2 coming to an end. It was excellent how it was done. Teyla coming to help later not only made it better it made it almost perfect.

it was pathetic. But it was a great fun to watch stupid Michael during 514. It remembered me stupid Adria in AoT.

g.o.d
November 9th, 2008, 08:13 AM
This discussion brought up good and valid points for why Michael "had" to be there. Let's just hope he had the decency to clone himself. I mean, he has cloning technology.

that would be lame, bringing back death characters in SG is one of the stupidest thing in this franchise

jelgate
November 9th, 2008, 08:16 AM
that would be lame, bringing back death characters in SG is one of the stupidest thing in this franchise:eek::eek:I agree with you

Shan Bruce Lee
November 9th, 2008, 08:40 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

Oh no you didn't!

I think Michael just wanted to be there because he thought there'd be a better chance of success with him there

Briangate78
November 9th, 2008, 09:03 AM
it was pathetic. But it was a great fun to watch stupid Michael during 514. It remembered me stupid Adria in AoT.

So just because the bad guys paint themselves into a corner and the good guys finally triumph they are pathetic and stupid? Michael's ending was done very well and the majority agree with me on this. I agree about Adria, AoT was not that great of a movie overall, continuum was way better.

g.o.d
November 9th, 2008, 09:06 AM
So just because the bad guys paint themselves into a corner and the good guys finally triumph they are pathetic and stupid? Michael's ending was done very well and the majority agree with me on this. I agree about Adria, AoT was not that great of a movie overall, continuum was way better.

Michael behaved like a moron.That's what I was talking about. Why didn't he grabed Torren and Teyla, take them back to the jumper and left? Why didn't he leave with his DNA? Why didn't he take some bomb with him? Why didn't he take only Torren with him and kill Teyla? He should have known that she'll never join him. He had no problems with killing her in 420

majority here on GW may agree with, butr majority on some other forums agree with me ;)

Briangate78
November 9th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Michael behaved like a moron.That's what I was talking about. Why didn't he grabed Torren and Teyla, take them back to the jumper and left? Why didn't he leave with his DNA? Why didn't he take some bomb with him? Why didn't he take only Torren with him and kill Teyla? He should have known that she'll never join him. He had no problems with killing her in 420

majority here on GW may agree with, butr majority on some other forums agree with me ;)

Michael could of left, one of his Hybrids even said it, we have the baby lets go. Michael wanted revenge on Atlantis, he wanted to get back at what they did to him. That is what added so much drama to the episode and when Teyla kicked his hand to make him fall it was so dramatic the look on their faces. It was just a building up moment. The writers had to make Michael look like this ruthless psycho killer willing to do anything to get his revenge. His rage and vengence overtook his rational thinking. He was even going to cut off Ronon's head for a trophy. The last act when Michael was on the run and Sheppard goes after him as been some of the best dramatic and thrilling moments of this series.

Getting back to the topic of this thread more. Michael had two motives for being on Atlantis. He is not dumb and in fact his over thinking got him killed.

FallenAngelII
November 9th, 2008, 09:48 AM
So just because the bad guys paint themselves into a corner and the good guys finally triumph they are pathetic and stupid? Michael's ending was done very well and the majority agree with me on this. I agree about Adria, AoT was not that great of a movie overall, continuum was way better.
How about we stop having our villains painting themselves into stupid corners and go out after having a spectacularly brilliant plan with all of their bases covered just go wrong?

Instead of quasi-brilliant plans full of flaws and bad decision-making.

Shan Bruce Lee
November 10th, 2008, 01:02 AM
How about we stop having our villains painting themselves into stupid corners and go out after having a spectacularly brilliant plan with all of their bases covered just go wrong?

Instead of quasi-brilliant plans full of flaws and bad decision-making.

Those are the same thing. Somebody's always gonna look at what went wrong and say "they shouldn't have done this"

Col.Ads
November 10th, 2008, 01:39 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.


Well as Micheals flagship was destroyed and presumably quite alot of his hybrids with it, he was left with but a handfull of hybrids, and as stated in *the seed* we were raiding his complexes. So it stands to reason that the 3/4 hybrids he brought along to atlantis with him were all he had left, also all he could fit into the jumper before the cruiser blew. Now if he only had a few hybrids and they seemed to need to be told what to do alot, as seen many times you can assume micheal had to attend in oder for the plan to run smoothly and for him to make decisions on any problems, which he did when the self destruct was taking to long to activate etc...

Im not saying its the reason but it does have a little logic behind it.


As for the getting upto the top of the tower, well the stargate was inaccessable, and with soliders closing in on him he had to go up. then his plan of stealing another jumper was thwarted by closing the hanger bay doors he was left with no other alternative really.

kanadra
November 10th, 2008, 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by FallenAngelII
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.





The queen is the only one who sits back and directs all the others. Micheal being from that type of back ground it would be unnatural for him not to be. From his point of few i would think. Then you also have the tradition of old here on earth that the leader actually lead. Lords from long ago would be out in front of their men. May be the writers where pulling from that??

As far as fighting atop a tower. When a person is man and deep into the fight I don't think they really know where they are they just want to get the other guy.

Also the writers are winding up stories being this is the last season and for that they chose to end the show like this. Although Micheal has been in the thick of all their fights so in that respect he is following in step with his character.

FallenAngelII
November 10th, 2008, 03:45 AM
Those are the same thing. Somebody's always gonna look at what went wrong and say "they shouldn't have done this"
But if the plan was brilliantly made and it only failed due to bad luck, then it wouldn't be because of blatantly bad decisions.

Decisions that are nominally bad in context we can live with. Decisions that are flawed in almost any context, that is just lazy writing.

Arturis
November 12th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Why was Michael on Atlantis?

Simple: to be killed off.

Thank god. The worst character in the history of science fiction (hell, all of fiction) is no more.

Hermiiod
November 16th, 2008, 09:59 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).

Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).

He could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.

Let's hope he at least had the decency to clone himself.

Maybe that Michael was just a clone, because the real Michael, like you said would'nt need to go on a strike mission.

Mitchell82
November 16th, 2008, 11:26 AM
What kind of leader of a major evil organizations goes on strike missions that directly engage an entire city of combatants?!
The crazy ones who want revenge like Michael.

I mean, sure, Sam did once or twice, but at least she was "expendable" (let's face it, if she'd died from a slipping on a banana peel, at least Earth could've send someone else).
What kind of comparison is that?


Why was Michael even there? What, "If you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself"? I mean, what did Michael do on the city that none of his minions could do (because, really, if you can't get your minions to follow basic instructions, your minions are pretty bad).
Michael wanted his own personal revenge.


eHe could've just communicated to them through the gate (keeping a wormhole open, preventing Atlantis the convenient overriding of the gate shield.
That would have been boring.

And no villain with any self-respect would fight the Main Hero atop a tower or whatever. That's just asking to die.
True but that was cool.

Crazedwraith
November 25th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Haven't read the entire thread but doesn't Michael need to be in close proximity to control his hybrids? There were certain points when stronger willed people like Kanaan would act up if he wasn't around.

Maybe he didn't want to risk hs ground troops going rogue. He might also be the only person he had with the ATA gene and thus the only person who could fly the jumper in. Which was a crucial part of his plan.

Orion25
December 25th, 2008, 05:37 AM
I think the most important reasons why Michael was there has already been said:

1. Micheal is likely the only one of his minions with the ATA gene to pilot the jumper, given to him by his carson clone.

2. Michael most likely needs to be in the same solarsystem, given the finite range of the wraith mindlink, that lets him exert his brainwashing and level of control over his minions which he seeks to improve with Torrens DNA. So I don't reckon Michael will have a lot of minions left behind either.

3. His desire for revenge being so fierce that he would have it no other way than playing an instrumental role in the destruction of Atlantis and getting his hands on Teyla and Torren.


Interesting points. I also got the impression that his revenge was fierce to drive him to that point. I was about to ask how Michael could've operated the jumper since it needed an ATA gene. I didn't see it coming where Michael had thought ahead of forcibly making Beckett developed an ATA gene therapy for his future plans.

The fighting on the ledge, well, I guess I buy it since a cornered enemy will most likely lead the hero to the place where he thinks he'll have an upper hand and not go deeper into the city, thus the ledge scene. Michael thought that with his superior abilities, he could push Sheppard to his death. Except, he didn't count Teyla coming from behind. Now, that was one heck of a punch from Teyla to make Michael turn around so his focus would shift on her. I was expecting Michael would make it hard for Teyla to beat him since she had no weapons or knife at hand.

rushy
November 24th, 2009, 03:10 AM
I think Michael was never evil.He was just an unlucky Wraith who went insane of all the experiments EVIL Beckett had done on him. Carson was evil,not Michael. It is Beckett's fault not Michael's.Beckett is in guilty and I would just put Beckett back into a stasis pod forever.

rushy
November 24th, 2009, 03:12 AM
Plus I would also put everyone except for Ronon to Aurora stasis pods.I wouldn't put Ronon cause Ronon was against the experiment.I'd make Ronon head of SGC.Plus the President and the Commander of the Stargate Program on Earth,Atlantis and Destiny.

rushy
November 24th, 2009, 03:13 AM
Ronon rules

rushy
November 24th, 2009, 03:14 AM
I'd spare Teyla as well and maybe Sheppard

rushy
November 24th, 2009, 06:11 AM
Michael was on Atlantis cause he had a debt to pay to McKay and Teyla and Ronon and Sheppard

rushy
November 24th, 2009, 06:12 AM
Why no one bothered anymore to call him Lieutenant.It was still his rank he got it free.Lt.Michael Kenmore

Matt G
November 29th, 2009, 03:02 PM
You have an interesting definition of evil. The Atlantis crew were not wrong to attempt to turn a Wraith into a human. Had they succeeded it would have been a very smooth way to neutralise the Wraith.

Net result: Good.

IV
November 29th, 2009, 03:15 PM
They weren't wrong as such in attempting to find a way to neutralise the wraith, but even Carson shows some signs of regret at what had happened - as a doctor, he'd likely see it as forcing treatment onto a patient when they are incapable of concent. I can't really remember the episode all too well when he started to revert, but they instantly started thinking of a way to kill him off instead of trying to help him - which considering he was now human (or partially so) would have been the right thing to do. They'd made him what he was, therefore they should have born the brunt of responsiblities for their actions and dealt with him in a way that didn't result in him scooting off back to his Hive because he'd been rejected.

Plus if I was turned into something I fed off and then lied to on top of that because someone claims it's 'better', I'd be pretty annoyed too.

asdf1239
March 30th, 2010, 03:09 PM
uhm i must have missed something during the episode because how exactly did michael/his hybrids fly the jumper? dont you need the ancient gene

rushy
April 26th, 2010, 08:32 AM
I'm telling you! It was a bad plan! Beckett was evil, McKay was an idiot. That's it!

asdf1239
May 2nd, 2010, 12:56 PM
beckett wasn't evil because he was -ordered- to continue the experiment by weir. if anyone was evil, it's weir.

rushy
July 5th, 2010, 01:42 AM
beckett wasn't evil because he was -ordered- to continue the experiment by weir. if anyone was evil, it's weir.

Good point. Well, thank god there's no Mike anymore.