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GateWorld
November 7th, 2008, 11:09 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/514.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/514.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/514.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE PRODIGAL</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 514</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The team fights to retake control of Atlantis when Michael infiltrates the control room to take Teyla's child and destroy the city.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/514.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
November 7th, 2008, 06:04 PM
wow, a lotta firsts

they admitted that john's been on to many suicide missions
teyla didn't get saved
she kicked tushie

go teyla go

she got more cajones than the boys do

ladyjanus
November 7th, 2008, 06:06 PM
Super mom!!!!

Yes!

PhoenixKnght86
November 7th, 2008, 06:06 PM
I kinda wish they had shown someone covering up his body or at least a body covered up in the lab (I was hoping that was what Woosley was walking into when he was in the medical wing). I would have accepted that ending more than the happy go lucky gushing

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:06 PM
There was absolutely nothing wrong with this episode. At all. I don't care if there are plot holes.

This episode didn't need hot dandy special effects like No Man's Land and Be All My Sins Remember'd, any massive battle scenes. This was a strong episode. My hat's off to the writers.

naamiaiset
November 7th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I have just one question... where was Kanaan through all this? Are we to assume he was knocked out or just not on Atlantis?

PhoenixKnght86
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
There was absolutely nothing wrong with this episode.

Why did Michael decide in the end to not keep his word when he had Teyla dead to rights? I don't get it.

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I kinda wish they had shown someone covering up his body or at least a body covered up in the lab (I was hoping that was what Woosley was walking into when he was in the medical wing). I would have accepted that ending more than the happy go lucky gushing

Err... I doubt there's much of anything left of Michael to cover. He either hit the city's hull, or he hit the ocean. And at the speed and distance, he probably got flattened like a pancake.

Infernorhythm
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Wow, great episode.

Michael lost it more than once, Ronon and Michael got to finally duke it out, McKay and Zelenka bickered, and Teyla kicked butt. Definitely an awesome episode.

Kudos to the fight choreographer. The Ronon/Michael fight and the Sheppard/Michael fight were just brutal.

Oh, and Sheppard and McKay finally acknowledging the numerous suicide missions? Great bit.

"You had two years"! Great line! :D

Vala_M
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Excellent!

Vala,

PhoenixKnght86
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I have just one question... where was Kanaan through all this? Are we to assume he was knocked out or just not on Atlantis?

Off world. Teyla said it in the first ten minutes

jenks
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
My ****ing connection ****ed up just as they stormed the control room and I didn't get it back until Teyla murdered Michael. Sods law in action. :mad:

The6thRace
November 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Very nice solid episode. I always like the whole home base invasion scenario. Loved it every time it happened in SG-1. Lots of action and jokes - nothing really too new plotwise other than a major villain being put down.

What was Michaels trophy from Ronan? For a minute there, I thought he was going to cut off his hair and we'd see Ronan with a new haircut.

Infernorhythm
November 7th, 2008, 06:09 PM
Err... I doubt there's much of anything left of Michael to cover. He either hit the city's hull, or he hit the ocean. And at the speed and distance, he probably got flattened like a pancake.

The only thing that could have made that fall better was if they had taken a note from The Crow and had Michael get impaled on one of the city's lightning rods.

PhoenixKnght86
November 7th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Err... I doubt there's much of anything left of Michael to cover. He either hit the city's hull, or he hit the ocean. And at the speed and distance, he probably got flattened like a pancake.

Probably but at least someone, like Keller, or what not saying something about finding a body would stop the fanfiction writers from running in a million directions

As much as I am sad Michael is dead (he was my favorite character) even I have to admit that an end is an end.

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Why did Michael decide in the end to not keep his word when he had Teyla dead to rights? I don't get it.

Because he's Michael. There need be no other explanation. He was a murderous, sickening tyrant who committed horrendous acts and blamed them on the people who influenced his life rather than to accept he alone committed those acts. Teyla was never going to go with that monster, and she knew Michael wasn't ever going to keep his word. She was stalling for time. Michael paid the consequences.

naamiaiset
November 7th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Off world. Teyla said it in the first ten minutes
Okay, I must've missed that part.

The6thRace
November 7th, 2008, 06:11 PM
The only thing that could have made that fall better was if they had taken a note from The Crow and had Michael get impaled on one of the city's lightning rods.

I personally would of preferred a Tim Burtons 'Batman' movie style ending (the one with Jack Nicholson as the Joker), where he falls, you see the dead body, then there is a voice recording of him saying over and over 'Come with me Teyla' from the voice recorder he could of stole from Ronan. That would be epic.

jenks
November 7th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Very nice solid episode. I always like the whole home base invasion scenario. Loved it every time it happened in SG-1. Lots of action and jokes - nothing really too new plotwise other than a major villain being put down.

What was Michaels trophy from Ronan? For a minute there, I thought he was going to cut off his hair and we'd see Ronan with a new haircut.

His head, I assume.

Biokinetica
November 7th, 2008, 06:12 PM
There was absolutely nothing wrong with this episode. At all. I don't care if there are plot holes.

Not even Michael's lame pseudo-death? That "hanging off the ledge fall to doom" has got to be one of the oldest and most retarded of all the hollywood death paradigms.

Skydiver
November 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
from a fall of that height, he was a puddle of goo with little bits of bone stucking out

Teslan
November 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
FCOL! That was NOT the way to end it!! Aargh, I know all things must come to an end, but that was too soon. TPTB have absolutely no clue how to handle the baddies.

Good: What can I say? I’ve been a huge Michael fan since his first appearance, so I was looking forward to this episode as soon as I found out about it.
Michael-Ronon fight scene was over quickly but proved that the hybrids would doubtlessly rule the galaxy if their numbers were greater. Which is why I couldn’t understand why the Michael-Sheppard lasted so long.
Rodney proves Jackisms are contagious, FCOL!
The baby playing Torren was so cute, and I for one and glad they didn’t bump him off.

If it had to happen, I guess I’m glad it was Teyla who got to do it; although once again we saw a main character make an action that would usually keep most people awake for at least a few nights. And as always, everyone acts like nothing happened. *sigh*

Bad:The end! The entire thing! Except for maybe the part with Ronon and Woolsey.

Maddspecter
November 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Teyla kicking ass? That woman technician kicked ass! (don't know her name)

PhoenixKnght86
November 7th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Because he's Michael. There need be no other explanation. He was a murderous, sickening tyrant who committed horrendous acts and blamed them on the people who influenced his life rather than to accept he alone committed those acts. Teyla was never going to go with that monster, and she knew Michael wasn't ever going to keep his word. She was stalling for time. Michael paid the consequences.

I disagree that everything Michael did was his fault. The whole reason I began watching Atlantis was because of what we did to Michael and the fact that no one would ever own up to it even when Michael had them all dead to rights.

Michael has been right from the very beginning. All that he has done could have been prevented as long as we hadn't turned him into our test subject. Everything after that has been to stay alive since neither human or wraith would accept him after what we did to him.

Michael is our fault and everything he has done is our fault too.

We created the monster.

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Teyla kicking ass? That woman technician kicked ass! (don't know her name)
The actress's name is Sharon Taylor and her character's name was Banks. And she's a black belt in Karate. This may have brought her back. You may have seen her previously as a female Replicator in First Strike.

The6thRace
November 7th, 2008, 06:16 PM
Woolsey in sickbay reminded me of the 'The Doctor' or EMH. Woolsey should never be in the medical bay to avoid confusion.

Shan Bruce Lee
November 7th, 2008, 06:18 PM
Great fight scenes! Camillia (sp) Ronon vs Michael, Shep vs Michael, Teyla vs Michael... That was another perfect episode and the perfect way to kill off Michael :hammondanime01:

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:19 PM
I disagree that everything Michael did was his fault. The whole reason I began watching Atlantis was because of what we did to Michael and the fact that no one would ever own up to it even when Michael had them all dead to rights.

Michael has been right from the very beginning. All that he has done could have been prevented as long as we hadn't turned him into our test subject. Everything after that has been to stay alive since neither human or wraith would accept him after what we did to him.

Michael is our fault and everything he has done is our fault too.

We created the monster.

Sorry, Michael is a being with free will. In the eyes of the law, the consequences of what we did to Michael were not foreseeable. We can be charged with performing unethical experiments on him, yes. But he ultimately of his own free will poisoned tens of thousands of humans, wiped out the Taranians, and experimented on other humans. If we were to charge Atlantis for what Michael did, we might as well charge the parents of murderers for what their children did.

There's a certain level of accountability. Michael wasn't doing something to survive, he was doing something out of revenge and power lust.

jenks
November 7th, 2008, 06:19 PM
The actress's name is Sharon Taylor and her character's name was Bates. And she's a black belt in Karate. This may have brought her back. You may have seen her previously as a female Replicator in First Strike.

Banks*

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Excellent episode. The last act alone was enough to convince me as this being one of the best eps of the season. A one on one face off with Sheppard and Michael on the outside of the city. The episode exceded my expactations. Michael was killed in a very very powerful dramatic way, unlike........*cough* Kolya *Cough*.

I know the Teyla fans are going to be happy with this episode.

The6thRace
November 7th, 2008, 06:25 PM
Excellent episode. The last act alone was enough to convince me as this being one of the best eps of the season. A one on one face off with Sheppard and Michael on the outside of the city. The episode exceded my expactations. Michael was killed in a very very powerful dramatic way, unlike........*cough* Kolya *Cough*.

I know the Teyla fans are going to be happy with this episode.

That reminds me of another thing. Its kind of the first time that this place has seemed like an actual city. They were so far away when the shenanigans started that just getting to the control tower was an ordeal in itself. First time its really felt like it was an actual city rather than a collection of sets in a studio somewhere.

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:26 PM
That reminds me of another thing. Its kind of the first time that this place has seemed like an actual city. They were so far away when the shenanigans started that just getting to the control tower was an ordeal in itself. First time its really felt like it was an actual city rather than a collection of sets in a studio somewhere.
There was that story about Kearson Fever. Forget the name of the episode. When Rodney and Sam met up with each other and went outside to see the towers.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 06:29 PM
That reminds me of another thing. Its kind of the first time that this place has seemed like an actual city. They were so far away when the shenanigans started that just getting to the control tower was an ordeal in itself. First time its really felt like it was an actual city rather than a collection of sets in a studio somewhere.

The city shots were done very well. It made you feel how large Atlantis is, and I really liked that effect. The entire episode was great, the middle was a tad slow but after that killer ending, lol, literally a killing ending, it made up for that.

Vala_M
November 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Excellent episode! I loved it!

Nice intro where Woolsey was asking Ronon about why he never writes mission reports. I always wondered if he wrote any. I figured he couldn't write/type - at least in English. "I'm not good at talking..." was great!

McKay and Sheppard racing the toy cars was nice. I'm surprised that McKay knew about car maintenance.

I noticed that they rearranged the event order slightly again like in other episodes but at least it was only that one scene.

I wonder what Michael learned from the jumper about Atlantis. How did he get a team's IDC and have it still be valid?

The stun bubble was a lot of like the AR field from the jumper in "Lifeline" but Michael was smart enough to put the access points in an up and down path instead of left-right that way, nobody could just run through and wake up after a while. Did anyone else notice that?

Michael was really pissed at Teyla. Did he really take a DNA sample of Torren or was he just lying?

I wish they mentioned how Michael managed to fly the jumper without the ATA gene? Or did he make a gene therapy as well? I always thought the ATA gene sensitivity in Ancient technology not only activated in the presence of the gene, but also rejected the Wraith, I guess the Ancients weren't smart enough to block the Wraith with the ATA gene. Or maybe since Michael is a hybrid, that wouldn't apply.

So Banks can fight, cool! Another thing I like about her. So, is Ronon into fighting women?

Michael's fight with Ronon was cool, I figured it would take place at the end of the episode though. Ronon got pushed off of that balcony, I was figuring he'd do that to Michael.

Nice to see McKay trying to fix something in a hurry again, especially considering it's the last season.

I forgot about the underwater jumper bay, it's good Sheppard thought of it.

McKay never fixed the jumpers! Hillarious! I figured we'd wind up with a scenario of one jumper has parts and the other has power.

Michael wanting to blow up Atlantis, how very evil. I figured he was lying when he was trying to coax Teyla out into the open, I like how she managed to call his bluff without exposing herself. Did Michael not know about the internal sensors or did they not have power?

I liked the plan of dialing the gate to desintegrate the back half of the jumper! The look on Michael's face was priceless! Why was the jumper bay roof open to begin with? Or did Michael do it?

I was wondering at first why Michael wanted the gate shield up at first, I guess that was why. Where was he intending on flying to? Why was there a door that opens up into the outside? I figured Michael was going to try and push Sheppard off, Telya went after him as well. That was a scary fight on top of the tower, I noticed that was the same wall that they used for Sheppard's climb in "Quarantine" - the fight was cool! I'm glad Teyla was the one who killed Michael by having him fall off of the edge of the tower and die. I hope he's really dead this time as it was a fitting end considering Michael's relations with Teyla.

The Ronon-Woolsey scene at the end was great! He made a report anyway! A very short and funny one that is.

McKay and Sheppard at the car racing again. Funny, Sheppard cheated.

Vala,

Jackson Yee
November 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
I entirely agree that Michael's actions were his and his alone. Bad things happen to everyone in life, but that's still not a justification to enact them on others. He was one of the most intelligent characters on the show along with Todd. He had plenty of chances to change his ways.

At least John didn't save the day this time. He's already crashed a puddle jumper into the city this season...

Fantastic episode for the writers, although as with most episodes this season, it felt a bit rushed. We can only wonder what would have happened with the major story arcs if we were given more time with Atlantis, much like how The Ark of Truth would have made up an entire eleventh season for SG-1.

Here's looking forward to Enemy at the Gate and future Atlantis movies. When are we going to manufacture some ZPMs', Rodney? It's been almost five years, and you would think that the Ancients would have left a factory inside their capitol city...

PhoenixKnght86
November 7th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Sorry, Michael is a being with free will. In the eyes of the law, the consequences of what we did to Michael were not foreseeable. We can be charged with performing unethical experiments on him, yes. But he ultimately of his own free will poisoned tens of thousands of humans, wiped out the Taranians, and experimented on other humans. If we were to charge Atlantis for what Michael did, we might as well charge the parents of murderers for what their children did.

There's a certain level of accountability. Michael wasn't doing something to survive, he was doing something out of revenge and power lust.

A being of free will who was stripped of his alien body and assigned a human persona. When one cast him out and other refused to accept him unless he became what he was not, what the hell else was Michael suppose to do? Lay down and die?

Michael's claim to power has always been in the name of his survival. And he is justified in his actions because neither race would allow him to let him live unless he became either what he was not or the taint we induced. And in that frame of mind, when you are neither wraith nor human and cast out by everyone...what on earth are you suppose to do?

Create others like you.

And in doing to Michael realized both the weaknesses of being human and wraith. He wanted to show everyone that for all the failure they saw in him he had managed to perfect his body and his situation. The release of the Hoffman Drug was his first steps in showing the wraith that they could cripple their entire race by taking out their food source.

I'm sorry, but I side with Michael. I can see why he did what he did and I sympathize with him.

Tyrant he is not, and we are in someway still guilty for everything that he did.

Skydiver
November 7th, 2008, 06:35 PM
the tech's name is Amelia Banks
she's been a gateroom tech for a chunk of this season

ladyjanus
November 7th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Boys and their toys, super moms, kick-ass gate technicians and a puddle jumper eaten by a stargate vortex -what more could a fan girl want?

I give this ep a solid 9. It loses one point for letting Ronan lay on the floor unconscious for so long...

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Boys and their toys, super moms, kick-ass gate technicians and a puddle jumper eaten by a stargate vortex -what more could a fan girl want?

I give this ep a solid 9. It loses one point for letting Ronan lay on the floor unconscious for so long...

It really showed that Michael was not weak. In the end it took a gun shot wound and two people with excellent fighting skills to take him down. So I am happy Michael was not made to be weak.

sae1969
November 7th, 2008, 06:41 PM
Not even Michael's lame pseudo-death? That "hanging off the ledge fall to doom" has got to be one of the oldest and most retarded of all the hollywood death paradigms.

I would say in this situation that the fall was a convenient plot device. The real drama was whether Teyla would deliberately ensure that Michael would plunge to his death or exercise mercy and save him. A fall from such heights is so much more dramatic in this case!!

Ltcolshepjumper
November 7th, 2008, 06:42 PM
A being of free will who was stripped of his alien body and assigned a human persona. When one cast him out and other refused to accept him unless he became what he was not, what the hell else was Michael suppose to do? Lay down and die?

Michael's claim to power has always been in the name of his survival. And he is justified in his actions because neither race would allow him to let him live unless he became either what he was not or the taint we induced. And in that frame of mind, when you are neither wraith nor human and cast out by everyone...what on earth are you suppose to do?

Create others like you.

And in doing to Michael realized both the weaknesses of being human and wraith. He wanted to show everyone that for all the failure they saw in him he had managed to perfect his body and his situation. The release of the Hoffman Drug was his first steps in showing the wraith that they could cripple their entire race by taking out their food source.

I'm sorry, but I side with Michael. I can see why he did what he did and I sympathize with him.

Tyrant he is not, and we are in someway still guilty for everything that he did.

There is NO justification for murder. None, never. Michael used the Hoffan drug not only to kill Wraith but humans as well. Outsiders proved that Michael could have kept the Hoffan drug from killing the human carriers, but he didn't. That's murder. Michael acted out of anger, not survival. All Michael had to do to survive was settle down on some abandoned world and clone. No, he abducted people against their will, converted them into his creatures, killed countless trying to perfect his process. They were expendable to him. The Expedition wanted him to be human, the Wraith wanted to kill him. At any time before he decided to mass murder, Michael could have decided to go the Todd route. The Expedition gave up trying to reconvert him. Michael, although not a tyrant (he had nothing to rule) was a demented former Wraith who out of vengeance decided to annihilate human and Wraith alike. That's not survival. that's genocide.

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 06:44 PM
A being of free will who was stripped of his alien body and assigned a human persona. When one cast him out and other refused to accept him unless he became what he was not, what the hell else was Michael suppose to do? Lay down and die?

Survival does not entail what Michael did.


Michael's claim to power has always been in the name of his survival. And he is justified in his actions because neither race would allow him to let him live unless he became either what he was not or the taint we induced. And in that frame of mind, when you are neither wraith nor human and cast out by everyone...what on earth are you suppose to do?

I feel for Michael, I really do. But that does not justify what he did. Michael didn't have a choice in the matter. But he became worse than someone who didn't care about his choice. He became hypocritical. There are plenty of unsettled worlds out there Michael could have hidden on.


Create others like you.

I'm different. So I'm going to create others like me. Hmm.


And in doing to Michael realized both the weaknesses of being human and wraith. He wanted to show everyone that for all the failure they saw in him he had managed to perfect his body and his situation. The release of the Hoffman Drug was his first steps in showing the wraith that they could cripple their entire race by taking out their food source.

And from here, the accountability of Atlantis stopped. Michael chose to do something in his position, without any outside interference or continued influence from Atlantis, and commit murder. He became the hypocrite who began experimenting on others. We may be responsible for his fall, but ultimately, Michael is responsible only and of himself.


I'm sorry, but I side with Michael. I can see why he did what he did and I sympathize with him.

Sympathizing doesn't mean you have to justify everything he does. The level of accountability has passed.


Tyrant he is not, and we are in someway still guilty for everything that he did.

He programmed those that he experimented on to be loyal solely and only to him. He was the de facto leader, and they couldn't kill him. Michael was worse than us, we didn't take away his free will.

Ruffles
November 7th, 2008, 06:48 PM
I LOVED this ep! I've been a Michael fan since the beginning. I didn't know spoilers for "Michael" so I was completely sucked in - had no idea he was a Wraith until the big reveal. I adored that the writers didn't ignore the massive mistake Atlantis made with creating him - showing us here and there the havoc he was wreaking. And we get closure. Bravo!

Good stuff:
* Ronon and Woolsey together - I thought there was no odder couple than McKay and Ronon, but I was wrong. Woolsey is so different from Ronon that I laugh when they're in the same room. "Was I there?" "I saw you. You're hard to miss." *dies*

* the small note that Kanaan was off-world visiting the other Athosians. A nice line to explain his absence but to also clue us in on what happened to the rest of their people

* Sheppard and McKay with the cars - I have so much love for these scenes! Words cannot describe. It highlights what makes them friends - the snark, the competition, the geekiness. Seriously, how many other Air Force pilots are hanging out with physicists racing toy cars? *cracks up*

* Michael - he's just so diabolical and he totally thinks it's justified. As others have said, he is a being with free will. He has chosen a path of murder and vengeance.

* Lorne - always good to see him

* Zelenka - LOVE him. His glee at Rodney almost calling it a stun bubble then at Sheppard making Rodney go with him to the underwater bay was fantastic.

* Sheppard and McKay with the jumper - hilarious banter and a tremendous scene with the handshake. LOVED that. Here's to many more suicide missions.

* WHUMP!! Okay, I'm a card-carrying Shep whumper, but that's not actually what I'm referring to. So many times the bad guy attacks and hardly anyone gets hurt. Ronon gets tossed from the control room and STAYS DOWN, almost getting his throat cut except for some fortunate timing by Zelenka (go Radek!). Woolsey tumbles down a flight of stairs and hurts his arm and has a nasty cut/bruise on his head. Lorne hits the stun bubble and goes down (and stays down). Michael kicks the crap out of Sheppard (SQUEE! Oops, sorry). As a hybrid, he should be a lot stronger than Sheppard. After all the one Ronon was fighting almost took Ronon down. Fighting results in injuries. I hate it when that's swept under the rug.

* Banks! You go, girl! Gets the door open, saves Ronon's butt with kickboxing. Gotta love that.

* TEYLA!!!! It's so good to see you. I've missed you terribly. And not just your shining face but your spunky attitude. You saved John's tail rather decidely and helped Michael off that ledge. Glad you're back.

* the ending - NICELY DONE. Another Ronon-Woolsey scene. I love that Ronon inspires Woolsey. Jason Momoa did a great job with showing being pleased at the compliment while sounding gruff. And that mission report. Bwahahaha! More words than I thought. Then Sheppard and McKay with the cars again and Teyla laughing. *wallows in teaminess* Interesting to note that Torren finally slept through the night after Michael died. Coincidence?

I love Conner Trinneer so I'm sad to see him go, but I thought this a fitting ending to the arc. He got to wreak havoc again with good scenes with Ronon, Teyla, and Sheppard. He fought hard and he died hard. Much better ending than that of Kolya.

Remnants
I can only hope that will be remedied next week. Can't wait to see Kolya again! And Shep whump! *dies*


After the past few mediocre eps, I am delighted to have this one. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Well done!!

Murzin
November 7th, 2008, 06:51 PM
i liked it. finally michael is dead and we dont have to worry about the events that happened in Last Man.

i think they are wrapping up the loose ends because they only have like 5-6 more epis before the series ends.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 06:52 PM
I love Conner Trinneer so I'm sad to see him go, but I thought this a fitting ending to the arc. He got to wreak havoc again with good scenes with Ronon, Teyla, and Sheppard. He fought hard and he died hard. Much better ending than that of Kolya.



I have to say Conner Trinneer was excellent in this episode. The emotions were really powerful. The ending was a good fit and I feel the right person ended his life. He should not have been allowed to live. Excellent review, btw. :)

jelgate
November 7th, 2008, 06:58 PM
Apparently Sheppard is not the only one capable of morally questionable acts. Go Teyla:D

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 07:00 PM
Apparently Sheppard is not the only one capable of morally questionable acts. Go Teyla:D
She certainly isn't going to lose any sleep over it.

I wonder what's going to happen to Michael's hybrids now that he's dead...

jelgate
November 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM
She certainly isn't going to lose any sleep over it. I wonder what's going to happen to Michael's hybrids now that he's dead...What happen when you kill any tyrant?

Someone rises to power and takes over.

Biokinetica
November 7th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I would say in this situation that the fall was a convenient plot device. The real drama was whether Teyla would deliberately ensure that Michael would plunge to his death or exercise mercy and save him. A fall from such heights is so much more dramatic in this case!!It's effect on me is null. Teyla's decision to to push him off was also as predictable as the ocean tides. I found no drama here.

rarocks24
November 7th, 2008, 07:16 PM
It's effect on me is null. Teyla's decision to to push him off was also as predictable as the ocean tides. I found no drama here.
Yes, it was very predictable. That's what made it so exciting. You knew, then and there, it was over. And those few seconds of hesitation, before she actually did it.

Epic.

IMForeman
November 7th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Man, Banks kicks ass!

And what I really liked about this was that Sheppard actually used the suggestion I was coming up with while watching. I kept saying "Use one of the Jumpers in the Underwater Jumper Bay." And he did.

I called it! (http://www.wikiality.com/I_Called_It!)

the fifth man
November 7th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Yes, it was very predictable. That's what made it so exciting. You knew, then and there, it was over. And those few seconds of hesitation, before she actually did it.

Epic.

Personally, I knew Michael wasn't getting out of this one for sure when he stepped outside way up there like that. I knew it would be his last stand.

Great episode, pretty much from start to finish.:)

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 07:56 PM
Personally, I knew Michael wasn't getting out of this one for sure when he stepped outside way up there like that. I knew it would be his last stand.

Great episode, pretty much from start to finish.:)

At that point I knew it also. I loved how Sheppard went after him and Teyla followed. It was just done very well for my taste. The music/score was also perfect. I hope this episode gets rated high. It deserves it.

Vis Uban
November 7th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Man, Banks kicks ass!

And what I really liked about this was that Sheppard actually used the suggestion I was coming up with while watching. I kept saying "Use one of the Jumpers in the Underwater Jumper Bay." And he did.

I called it! (http://www.wikiality.com/I_Called_It!)

Same here! The underwater jumper bay immediately sprang to mind. And surprise, surprise, they actually used it! Normally they forget things like the underwater jumper bay.

I also have to say I loved Michael in this episode. Those outbursts he had with Teyla really showed just how affected his civilized demeanor was. A mask that he put on to appear reasonable, which cracked whenever he became extremely angry. And on a totally unphilosophical note, I LOVED the fight scenes! Ronan Vs. Michael was much more intense than I thought it'd be. And truly nothing against Ronan intended, but it was nice to see him actually lose a fight. For the longest time, you knew he'd beat the tar out of anyone he went up against, and it was actually surprising, not to mention realistic, to see him lose. You almost never see a villain defeat one of the heroes in a knock-down-drag-out fight, then it happened again with Shepard. Also, the fights were excellently choreographed; it truly looked like both fighters in each battle gave everything they had, no "Oh come on!" moments I could see.

On a separate note, it was also actually pretty cool to see Shepard do as well, if not better, than Ronan, in a hand to hand fight. In these later seasons, they've considerably dumbed down Shepard's combat skills, instead allowing Ronan to do most of the major fighting. I find myself missing the Shepard from "The Storm" who took out sixty men, all by himself, and this episode gave him back some of his former glory. All in all, I actually really liked this episode; it had good philosophical, "meaning of life" stuff, as Daniel would put it, humor, a pretty good plot, and awesome fight scenes. Definitely a good episode.

freyr's mother
November 7th, 2008, 08:04 PM
My only problem with this episode is that he should have never been able to get to atlantis.

1.) The controls on the PJ are ATA

2.) Shouldn't atlantis detect a pulse of energy in the gate room and automatically respond kind of like what was done in Hot Zone

3.) (to beat a dead horse) The controls on the PJ are ATA

4.) How the hell did he get an iris code? It's not likely that ppl would give the code away.

5.) Why didnt the team that was captured and gave info to him give him a phony iris code that would make atlantis base raise the shield like in Forsaken with jonas and the chick.

IMForeman
November 7th, 2008, 08:08 PM
My only problem with this episode is that he should have never been able to get to atlantis.

1.) The controls on the PJ are ATA


Michael had a clone of Carson Beckett in his posession for 2 years. Carson not only has the ATA gene, but pioneered the gene therapy to give others the ATA gene. He no doubt forced Carson to give him the gene, or made his own version of the gene therapy using the gene from Carson's biology. It's pretty likely that he gave all the Hybrids the gene.

the fifth man
November 7th, 2008, 08:09 PM
At that point I knew it also. I loved how Sheppard went after him and Teyla followed. It was just done very well for my taste. The music/score was also perfect. I hope this episode gets rated high. It deserves it.

You know I totally agree with that.

It was great to see Shep go up against Michael like that. But Teyla had to end it. It just seemed right.

Vis Uban
November 7th, 2008, 08:09 PM
My only problem with this episode is that he should have never been able to get to atlantis.

5.) Why didnt the team that was captured and gave info to him give him a phony iris code that would make atlantis base raise the shield like in Forsaken with jonas and the chick.

As Kolya would say, "with the time tested combination of strong drink and weak minds." Or in this case, torture and weak minds. That's the only answer I can reasonably think of, though it is obviously not the best. I guess that team really needs a new leader...

Oops...actually responding to pt. 4 of your post, (grins sheepishly)...

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:09 PM
Michael had a clone of Carson Beckett in his posession for 2 years. Carson not only has the ATA gene, but pioneered the gene therapy to give others the ATA gene. He no doubt forced Carson to give him the gene, or made his own version of the gene therapy using the gene from Carson's biology. It's pretty likely that he gave all the Hybrids the gene.

Michael has always been a step ahead of Atlantis with using their own technology against them. He is no dummy.

Rockhound
November 7th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Great Episode!!!! Connor Trineer is awesome as usual.
TEYLA!!!! She's back.... you go girl. Nice to see her save John's butt
for once. Ronan & Woolsey - great! Banks - my new favorite female on
Atlantis. One of the best episodes!!!

the fifth man
November 7th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Michael has always been a step ahead of Atlantis with using their own technology against them. He is no dummy.

Was no dummy.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Was no dummy.

LOL, thank you. :p

Vis Uban
November 7th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Was no dummy.

Flying is easy; Landing, thats hard. :)

EvenstarSRV
November 7th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Great episode. Michael has been one of my favorite bad guys in SGA and I thought this was a great ending for the character.

Loved seeing just how consumed by anger he was that he basically sabotaged his own plan trying to get revenge against Atlantis. And that as much as he hated Atlantis, Michael still had a small soft spot for Teyla because of her kindness just after he was experimented on.

Sheppard and McKay with the toy cars were fun, as were the Ronon and Woolsey scenes about mission reports. Loved seeing Banks' kickboxing and I thought the Ronon/Michael and Sheppard/Michael fights were well done.

And after everything he's personally put her through (multiple kidnappings, kidnapping and killing many of her people, and trying to kidnap her son) I was sooo happy to see Teyla be the one to take out Michael in the end. And I loved seeing how light-hearted she seemed in the last scene with Sheppard and McKay, knowing that Michael was gone for good. :teyla: :)

Bit of an odd observation: While watching a rerun of SG-1's Nightwalkers earlier today, I noticed that the SGA banner ad they ran on the bottom of the screen had the season 4 cast picture with Carter instead of the season 5 one with Woolsey. Anyone know why SciFi hasn't updated this yet?

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Great episode. Michael has been one of my favorite bad guys in SGA and I thought this was a great ending for the character.



I totally agree about the end to his character. You get tired of the getting shot routine or the being blown up with your ship or just being blown up. This was different for Atlantis. It's like lets have a fight scene on the outside balacony of the city of Atlantis and have the bad guy fall to his death. Heck, it is a common death scene for the movies like say "Die Hard", but it really worked for Atlantis. Especially since Teyla was the one who ended his reign.

Daniela
November 7th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Interesting to note that Torren finally slept through the night after Michael died. Coincidence?

Oooh, very good point. Perhaps he has super sensory capabilities of detecting wraith-like people. Maybe more than his mom.

Also, what happened to the off-world team? How did Michael get this information, were they captured?

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:23 PM
Oooh, very good point. Perhaps he has super sensory capabilities of detecting wraith-like people. Maybe more than his mom.

Also, what happened to the off-world team? How did Michael get this information, were they captured?

I know I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight. Knowing SGA is being cancelled yet can still produce eps like this. DAMN YOU MGM TO HELL!

jelgate
November 7th, 2008, 08:24 PM
You know they can always carry this writing to SGU:P

Vis Uban
November 7th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Oooh, very good point. Perhaps he has super sensory capabilities of detecting wraith-like people. Maybe more than his mom.

The Wraith-sense will be with you, always...;)

Pandora's_Box
November 7th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Am I the only one that didn't like the way Michael was killed? Or more specifically, the manner in which Teyla killed him?

Don't get me wrong, Teyla killing him was poetic justice and needed to happen for the sake of the story. But to simply brush his hands off the ledge seems...unworthy of their relationship and history.

If there was some sort of symbolism that TPTB meant to portray, I see it but I don't think it's necessarily the correct sort. Brushing something away with ones foot is usually reserved for garbage, trash, something unimportant and meaningless. Yes, Michael was at her mercy. Yes, she got in a few good punches before he fell off the ledge, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting something more epic.

The fight scenes were unequivacally phenomenal in this episode. Ronon and Michael, then Sheppard and Michael. And the CGI in the Sheppard/Michael fight was nicely done. But I would have liked some of that to be thrown Teyla's way. She's been proven to be an extraordinary fighter, and while I have no quibble with a more nurturing Teyla (she did have to take care of her child), I think I would have appreciated Michael's death more and Teyla role in it if that final fight had been her and Michael alone.

Maybe that's just me.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:27 PM
You know they can always carry this writing to SGU:P

Except SGU is going to be staring a party girl, a high school quarterback and a guy named Psycho. :S

jelgate
November 7th, 2008, 08:29 PM
Except SGU is going to be staring a party girl, a high school quarterback and a guy named Psycho. :SWell the character bios for SGA changed from casting to Rising but we are getting off topic. I was happy to see Michael go. He was getting predictable and cliche.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:29 PM
Am I the only one that didn't like the way Michael was killed? Or more specifically, the manner in which Teyla killed him?

Don't get me wrong, Teyla killing him was poetic justice and needed to happen for the sake of the story. But to simply brush his hands off the ledge seems...unworthy of their relationship and history.

If there was some sort of symbolism that TPTB meant to portray, I see it but I don't think it's necessarily the correct sort. Brushing something away with ones foot is usually reserved for garbage, trash, something unimportant and meaningless. Yes, Michael was at her mercy. Yes, she got in a few good punches before he fell off the ledge, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting something more epic.

The fight scenes were unequivacally phenomenal in this episode. Ronon and Michael, then Sheppard and Michael. And the CGI in the Sheppard/Michael fight was nicely done. But I would have liked some of that to be thrown Teyla's way. She's been proven to be an extraordinary fighter, and while I have no quibble with a more nurturing Teyla (she did have to take care of her child), I think I would have appreciated Michael's death more and Teyla role in it if that final fight had been her and Michael alone.

Maybe that's just me.

Hmm well the scene was very well done. She did hesitate, but Michael killed so many people, and used her child, and turned the father of her baby into a Hybrid. When you look at Sheppard's face it is like Sheppard is almost saying, do it. Michael did deserve to die, but it is just so moral knowing Atlantis was the one who created him. So does the creator of the monster have the right to kill his own invention? Truly very deep.

Daniela
November 7th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I know I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight. Knowing SGA is being cancelled yet can still produce eps like this. DAMN YOU MGM TO HELL!

I feel the same way about Firefly. I just saw the last episode of it and I can't get over the fact that that's it-with the exception of the movie Serenity.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:33 PM
I feel the same way about Firefly. I just saw the last episode of it and I cna't get over the fact that that's it-with the exception of the movie Serenity.

With this episode, I wanted to see Michael's story arc come to and end, and it be done in a very good way. I have to say I am very happy with the outcome and this was a good send off to this story arc and this enemy.

Vis Uban
November 7th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Am I the only one that didn't like the way Michael was killed? Or more specifically, the manner in which Teyla killed him?

Don't get me wrong, Teyla killing him was poetic justice and needed to happen for the sake of the story. But to simply brush his hands off the ledge seems...unworthy of their relationship and history.

If there was some sort of symbolism that TPTB meant to portray, I see it but I don't think it's necessarily the correct sort. Brushing something away with ones foot is usually reserved for garbage, trash, something unimportant and meaningless. Yes, Michael was at her mercy. Yes, she got in a few good punches before he fell off the ledge, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting something more epic.

The fight scenes were unequivacally phenomenal in this episode. Ronon and Michael, then Sheppard and Michael. And the CGI in the Sheppard/Michael fight was nicely done. But I would have liked some of that to be thrown Teyla's way. She's been proven to be an extraordinary fighter, and while I have no quibble with a more nurturing Teyla (she did have to take care of her child), I think I would have appreciated Michael's death more and Teyla role in it if that final fight had been her and Michael alone.

Maybe that's just me.

Well, I remember thinking during the Ronan/Michael fight, "Teyla, don't just stand there! put down the baby and help him!" Seriously, the two of them together might have been able to bring Michael down. Given their history, I agree it would have been better to have more Teyla/Michael action, but that means I'd probably lose the Shepard/Michael fight, which I really don't want. Hmm... dang impasses...

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Well, I remember thinking during the Ronan/Michael fight, "Teyla, don't just stand there! put down the baby and help him!" Seriously, the two of them together might have been able to bring Michael down. Given their history, I agree it would have been better to have more Teyla/Michael action, but that means I'd probably lose the Shepard/Michael fight, which I really don't want. Hmm... dang impasses...

Teyla would not have been able to take Michael on her own. Ronon could not and Sheppard was not exactly pulling any punches right before Teyla showed up. Unless you count Michael smashing his face on the Atlantis city fixture. :S

Pandora's_Box
November 7th, 2008, 08:43 PM
Teyla would not have been able to take Michael on her own. Ronon could not and Sheppard was not exactly pulling any punches right before Teyla showed up. Unless you count Michael smashing his face on the Atlantis city fixture. :S

Considering that Teyla has been able to defeat Sheppard in hand to hand combat and hold her own against Ronon, that's not accurate at all.

If anything, a more prolonged fight between her and Michael after Sheppard had started him off would have been more satisfying than the few punches followed by the brush off the ledge.

Briangate78
November 7th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Considering that Teyla has been able to defeat Sheppard in hand to hand combat and hold her own against Ronon, that's not accurate at all.

If anything, a more prolonged fight between her and Michael after Sheppard had started him off would have been more satisfying than the few punches followed by the brush off the ledge.

Hmm well I actually liked the team effort by Sheppard and Teyla. I think it just works better.

Vis Uban
November 7th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Teyla would not have been able to take Michael on her own. Ronon could not and Sheppard was not exactly pulling any punches right before Teyla showed up. Unless you count Michael smashing his face on the Atlantis city fixture. :S

Normally, I'd agree with you, but Teyla has a very different style of fighting than either Shepard or Ronan, both of them are pretty much strait shooters; offensive strength vs. offensive strength. In a fight though, the battlefield is at least as important as the relative strength of the opponents. Given that they were on a slippery ledge, I think it's at least feasible that Teyla could have used her superior maneuverability to her advantage, perhaps decisively so given that the battlefield limited the advantage his superior strength gave him.

Killdeer
November 7th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Considering that Teyla has been able to defeat Sheppard in hand to hand combat and hold her own against Ronon, that's not accurate at all.

If anything, a more prolonged fight between her and Michael after Sheppard had started him off would have been more satisfying than the few punches followed by the brush off the ledge.

I agree with you. Michael was Teyla's personal demon. And we haven't seen her in a decent fight all season. I would have preferred to see her conquer this one by herself.

Pandora's_Box
November 7th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaaand....

I'd appreciate if TPTB would cease dumbing down Ronon. Poor guy will only have one brain cell left by the time the series is over if they continue in this fashion.

By the time the movie rolls around he'll not only be unable to write and talk, but to understand the basic English. :mckay:

I may not like the guy, but even I can cry foul at Woolsey giving him a recorder for his mission reports. And the report Ronon gave on Michael at the end?

*facepalm*

fumblesmcstupid
November 7th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Ronon was being a smart alec in his mission report!:ronan::cool:

Pandora's_Box
November 7th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Ronon was being a smart alec in his mission report!:ronan::cool:

Sometimes I wonder.....

This is the same guy who started banging on the controls of the Daedalus when he couldn't get it to fire they way he wanted it to.

fumblesmcstupid
November 7th, 2008, 09:15 PM
What? you never beat the crap out of a vending machine when it steals your money :)

Well Rodney calls him Conon for a reason. :)

Amakusa
November 7th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Am I the only one that didn't like the way Michael was killed? Or more specifically, the manner in which Teyla killed him?

Don't get me wrong, Teyla killing him was poetic justice and needed to happen for the sake of the story. But to simply brush his hands off the ledge seems...unworthy of their relationship and history.


I was kind of hoping she'd pump some lead in him and then he'd fall over, but that's probably too quick.

But anyway, I'm glad she did it. You really don't mess with Mom.

Lythisrose
November 7th, 2008, 09:20 PM
What an excellent, excellent episode!!!!!
All of the good stuff - none of the bad!
You go Teyla!
We got Shep and McKay back, and every single one of the team had something to do.
Lorne and Zelenka, Woolsey and Banks were great. (& baby Torren is adorable) Michael was better than he's ever been.
Oh, this is the Atlantis I love, darn it all that it's almost over.
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
(I won't harsh my mellow by dwelling on why some of the others haven't been or won't be so cool)

Corona
November 7th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Don't park the Jumper in front of the Stargate!

It was too obvious.

fumblesmcstupid
November 7th, 2008, 10:53 PM
I wonder if anyone was in the jumper when it went bye bye?

Hong3103
November 8th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Really liked he part when Shepard and Gang were able to re-enter the control tower. Now that's how you clear a room! :)

Platschu
November 8th, 2008, 12:20 AM
That was really very good, because every character were written good. I really liked the conversation between Michael and Teyla, what was a good continuation of the Inquisition storyline. We couldn't her Teyla's opinion earlier, so Prodigal was a great episode for her and Michael. :cool:

It seems this is the beginning of the Amelia Banks - Ronon Dex ship. If it won't work than I hope Banks will be crossovered to Universe. She is talented. :)

And I have to say again. Why did they canceled this show? I will miss all of them. :(

Linzi
November 8th, 2008, 12:44 AM
Well, SGA is back in fighting form again! :)

I LOVED this episode!

The Sheppard/McKay banter was back and the dialogue had me cracking up! Wonderful job there and long overdue, IMO.

Loved the fights with Michael. Ronon's was great, as was Sheppard's.

I knew Michael was going to die, so I wasn't surprised, but I'm glad. CT did a great job though here.

Loved the Ronon/Woolsey stuff. ADORED Ronon's report at the end! :lol:

So much good stuff in this episode, and when Sheppard was following Michael to the tower I was so excited - and that's something I haven't been in a long while now.

Finally, the remote control car scenes, especially the first one, was just fantastic. I felt so happy! I also loved that it was acknowledged how many suicide missions Sheppard has run too.

So, IMO this is how an episode should be. Lots of Shep/McKay banter. A murderous villain's afoot, Teyla is in the episode and she's actually DOING something. Ronon and Woolsey play their parts too. And there are cool vis effects (the fight on the tower) and lots of hand to hand combat!

10/10 from me this week! Well done CB et al. :)

kadosho
November 8th, 2008, 12:45 AM
Quite a lot of mixed comments, but mostly positive (which is good to see).
Honestly I really loved this one, might even say it stands out (even for a finale season) *I can't believe we're signing off on 100 "sniff"

Few of my favorite highlights..
- Car race! (c'mon how was that not awesome?!)
- Michael's "last stand"
- Teyla being defiant, and delivering =D
- awesome fights (and actually seeing Ronan lose was a bit shocking)
- the classic "don't let me die - but I can't hang on anymore" fall =D
- And one more car race (I wonder who won)

metabog
November 8th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Lol at Teyla whimpering and going ahhh aahhh!! when Rodney and Sheppard were playing with the remote controlled cars.

I've never EVER seen her scream or go AAAAH! once, even fighting the Wraith and other creepy nasty stuff. And then she gets startled by some toy cars and goes screaming like a weee girl.

That was a tiny bit out of character.

Platschu
November 8th, 2008, 01:29 AM
Lol at Teyla whimpering and going ahhh aahhh!! when Rodney and Sheppard were playing with the remote controlled cars.

I've never EVER seen her scream or go AAAAH! once, even fighting the Wraith and other creepy nasty stuff. And then she gets startled by some toy cars and goes screaming like a weee girl.

That was a tiny bit out of character.

She became more sensitive as a mother. She can be really the next Xena. :D

morjana
November 8th, 2008, 01:49 AM
A perfect 10. Terrific episode. Who knew the Athosians knew how to Riverdance? And Teyla used it with great skill on Michael. Hasta la vista, Michael! (So glad that story arc is over with.)

Wonderful Joel Goldsmith music. Loved the Taiko drums during the last fight sequence between Shep and Michael.

Fantastic Shep/McKay interaction, both with the two scenes of the Atlantis 500, and the scene in the puddle jumper. Zelenka was marvelous...I loved his smirk.

And Sharon Taylor does know how to kickbox. She (well Amelia Banks) even impressed Ronon.

Thanks to Carl Binder and to Andy Mikita, and to all the actors, crew and staff for a very intense, very entertaining Stargate Atlantis.

morjana
November 8th, 2008, 02:20 AM
I disagree that everything Michael did was his fault. The whole reason I began watching Atlantis was because of what we did to Michael and the fact that no one would ever own up to it even when Michael had them all dead to rights.

Michael has been right from the very beginning. All that he has done could have been prevented as long as we hadn't turned him into our test subject. Everything after that has been to stay alive since neither human or wraith would accept him after what we did to him.

Michael is our fault and everything he has done is our fault too.

We created the monster.

But Michael as a Wraith was already a 'monster.' He and his fellow Wraith "farmed" humans -- they feed off of sentient beings, knowing that they are sentient. They cull the crop, then sleep for a couple of hundred years to allow their "crop" to reproduce, and go out and repeat the cycle.

Team Atlantis gave him the opportunity to become fully human again -- and he passed on the opportunity. He was more interested in obtaining power -- power over his fellow Wraith, over the humans. And when he couldn't obtain the power, he settled for vengeance.

Todd has displayed a better nature than Michael ever did.

Michael wanted to behave the way he behaved...because he didn't feel responsible for anything. It was always someone else's fault, someone else "made him do it."

Michael was a bully and he got what was coming to him.

thedrumm3rguy
November 8th, 2008, 02:50 AM
one thing i noted:

...we still diddnt get to see the jumpers power source dammit! :LOL:

Sasso
November 8th, 2008, 03:02 AM
I have to say this was my favourite ever episode of Atlantis. Better than season finales or mid season two parters. This one took the mother****ing cake!

Action, humour, drama, epicness, with what i thought was great acting, Micheal's epic showdown at the end and with the Ronon fight, the control room battle, the music... aRgh i could go on.
This episode rocked!

nich959
November 8th, 2008, 03:37 AM
I have to say this is one of the few episodes i thoroughly enjoyed. I was gripped from beginning to end!

-The fight scenes were the best Atlantis has ever pulled off, cookies to the choreographer.

-Michael was on top form this episode, his outbursts and reasoning are disturbing and brilliant in equal measure.

-Michael's death was fantastic, I honestly thought that Teyla would save him.

-Racing cars, loved that as well. Rodney and Sheppard were awesome.

Overall it had gotta be the best ever!

trekie
November 8th, 2008, 03:39 AM
Awesome episode! The team is back, even if a little separated.

-The opening scene between Ronon and Woolsey was hillarious. I loved the way how Ronon played dumb at the beginning with not remembering being at the meeting and the whole 'not good at writing and talking' bit. I mean it's so true!:D

-Shep and McKay playing with race cars was priceless. I missed the brotherly banter between these two, but now it was back on full force. And then Teyla showing up like their mother who caught them playing after their bedtime? Seriously beyond cute and adorable.

-Also loved the bit where Shep was climbing the stairs effortlessly while Mckay was about to die halfway through.


* Zelenka - LOVE him. His glee at Rodney almost calling it a stun bubble then at Sheppard making Rodney go with him to the underwater bay was fantastic.

Hehe, that was totally awesome! Poor Zelenka finally got some payback on Rodney. It was really good to see how much he enjoyed the situation.

-The fight scene at the end was really well done and fitting with Teyla killing off Michael.

-And the car race again!:D

SgaIsBad
November 8th, 2008, 03:58 AM
Best Part of the Episode: The cheesy fight between Sheppard, Teyla, & Ronon at the top of the tower. It was kinda over-the-top, but in a good Sci-Fi way.

Worst Part of the Episode:The toy cars. I can just imagine how cool the writers thought this would be....

What I really want to know: After 5 seasons of Atlantis, why are we finally getting the Atlantis personnel walking around the outside of the city? Does anyone even understand clearly how the city is layed out? It's been 2 years since we last heard about the underground jumper bay, and Rodney never fixed it in all that time? Bottom Line: The writers of SGA missed a huge opportunity to explore the massiveness of the city during the shows run.

prion
November 8th, 2008, 03:59 AM
Lol at Teyla whimpering and going ahhh aahhh!! when Rodney and Sheppard were playing with the remote controlled cars.

I've never EVER seen her scream or go AAAAH! once, even fighting the Wraith and other creepy nasty stuff. And then she gets startled by some toy cars and goes screaming like a weee girl.

That was a tiny bit out of character.

No,not really. When you're carrying a baby and get startled, yeah, you might react differently;)

Pharaoh Atem
November 8th, 2008, 04:12 AM
the ep was good mike's death could have been better but other then that it was good

JackHarkness_Hot
November 8th, 2008, 04:21 AM
A fine episode, very entertaining and hopefully that'll be it with Michael and his minions. Still plenty more adventures out there, y'know with the Wraith, probably some Gods that will take over the PG and after the team defeats the Gods, will have to face some other split faction of Ascended beings much like SG-1... **rambles on lol** Anyway, got a few questions about this episode.

1) When the splash destroyed half the puddlejumper, why didn't the other half of the ship explode? Is it cos the main power drives were at the rear of the jumper hence didn't pose a problem with it getting half-destroyed?

2) With the countdown programmed to the puddlejumper and the Atlantis system, when normal power was returned to the city, wouldn't the self-destruct program be still in place but with the source of the power be replaced from the puddlejumper to the ZPM? Is it that simple to disengage Atlantis' self-destruct, by basically turning the city off and turning back on again much like a PC?

But aside from these two questions, I liked it and my favourite bit gotta be when Teyla kicked Michael off the ledge, like how cool was that shot?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/CAPTX/supermum.png
"Don't mess with a mom or we will mess with you!"

Linda06
November 8th, 2008, 04:24 AM
WOOHOO......I loved this ep.....Well apart from the racing remote control cars :mckay:

A little bit of whump for Teyla when she got shot, it wasn't much but i'll take what I can get ;) The Teyla/Michael interaction is great as always...I kinda felt sorry for him (yeah I know, i'm a weird sort of creature :p) Connor played his part so brilliantly...

Woolsey is as awesome as ever :D I like him :DHe never cowers away :D

My Major baby is back...Where has he been this season :( I want more Lorne dammit :mckay:

The Michael/Ronon fight in the control room was great and very well done..

And Teyla......well Teyla Teyla Teyla.....My ass kicking Teyla is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack....I miss you ;) I admit when I saw Shep and Michael fighting I was starting to get worried that Shep would be the one to kill Michael instead of Teyla.....But I am so glad that I was proved wrong this time :D Loved the way she grabbed his arm and he turned round surprised, and then wham bam he's hanging from the ledge..Teyla's standing there looking at him then kicks one hand away and hesitates before she kicks the other one away....The look on Teyla's face, she knew it was the only way her son would be free from Michael's clutches...As long as Michael was out there her son would never be safe...And Shep's expression when he was watching Teyla was///Oh i'm not sure what he could have been thinking....

Oh and another thing I loved about this NO KELLER :D

I forgot how much she spoils eps for me with her whiny voice :S

Another thing though..I was a little disappointed with how much she had bambino in this ep but it's understandable...She couldn't leave him when Michael was still a threat but as soon as she knew that threat was pretty much over she had no hesitation leaving him with Amelia so she can go after Michael and finish it once and for all :D

So I loved this so much better than The Queen :D



I know the Teyla fans are going to be happy with this episode.

http://bestsmileys.com/happy/7.gif

Klenotka
November 8th, 2008, 04:28 AM
Good, I liked it. Well, I yelled few times at Teyla like "hit him with something!" or "Run!" but in the end, she was great and I am glad she kicked him down. "Don´t mess with super-mom" could you say. Nice.

Car racing - awesome :D I love when Sheppard and McKay are like two little boys :D And the scene in the Jumper, how Rodney said good bye, it was a nice touch.

Also good old Zelenka/Rodney banter, and how they together saved the day. Cool:) And it was nice to hear my mother tongue again :D

Ronon got kicked his ass for a change, which is nice. His scenes with Woolsey were great, more of them, please!
Her name is Amelia and she is a kung-fu technician :D
But I missed Chuck :(

Lorne was here and got stunned. Again. :rolleyes: Seriously...

I liked it more than Inquisiton, which I, well, practically hated, but this episode was cool.

And as much as I like Michael (and Connor), I really hope he is dead now. It would completely destroyed the end of this episode, if he were still alive somehow.

Dr Lee
November 8th, 2008, 04:39 AM
One thing i liked about this episode was that it took a short while before we knew what was going on.....We were in as much darkness as to what was happening as the characters...(As long as you hadn't read the spoilers that is)

Normally we'd have known by the end of the teaser that Mike had attacked.

Giantevilhead
November 8th, 2008, 04:43 AM
Michael really should have brought a nuke as a backup.

Klenotka
November 8th, 2008, 05:16 AM
And I totally forgot - we saw Atlantis! A lots of Atlantis inside - finally. :)

hisg1fans
November 8th, 2008, 05:19 AM
Loved it! Loved it! Loved it!

Especially Teyla at the end kicking Michael into the abyss. Go Teyla :teyla:

Pegasus_SGA
November 8th, 2008, 05:43 AM
Fantastic eppy :D I finally got my squee back.

This ep was full of so much goodness that I'm not going to get it all down.

Boys and their toys along with some great snarky playful banter. Fabulous :D

Teyla actually in the ep doing something apart from being a wallflower!! :D :D Great to see her back and doing something fab. I've missed her fighting skills.

Lots of kicking of ass and lots of whump for all involved!! Squeeeee :D

Choreography was fantastic, the score was fantastic.

Great team moments and feeling of luff!!

Great shots of the city, and loved the little hidey hole for Teyla and the baby.

Lots of angst, and drama and one liners... yes i'll admit I did shout at the TV during the fight scene. :o I just find hand to hand combat so much more satisfying, it also feels so much personal. And with Michael, I thought this was such a fitting end to everything. Kudos to CT for some great emotional stuff... sad to see him go. :(

Great to see Michael fighting with each member of the team, but it was down to Teyla to finish things off. Just as it should be!! Great stuff.

Loved the Rodney/Radek banter, the Woolsey/Ronon banter and the filing of the mission reports. LMAO :P

I enjoyed Amelia's lil kick ass moment and Ronon's admiration for her.

And the Shep/McKay banter, made my lil heart go squee, just two boys having fun. Loved seeing the lighter side of their friendship, it's been so long.

And the ending. Loved that it ended on a lighter note, brilliant :D

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 05:58 AM
wow this is great that so many people loved this ep. This was one of the best eps of the season. It exceeded my expectations. An epic episode!

Platschu
November 8th, 2008, 06:08 AM
An epic episode!
When they were figthing on the balcony and the camera went around, than I could feel this scene is epic. ;)

I think this darker tone will work in Universe too. :o

Linda06
November 8th, 2008, 06:19 AM
I like the eps more when it's got that darker feel to it!

Shaod
November 8th, 2008, 06:26 AM
Michael had the chance to leave Atlantis and leave his hybrids to finish the self-destruct. HE could have left and to "fight another day." But no, they had to kill him because the season is ending soon...

Although, good episode overall. Hoping that Michael cloned himself or something.
Maybe he will team up with Todd...

jelgate
November 8th, 2008, 06:36 AM
Michael had the chance to leave Atlantis and leave his hybrids to finish the self-destruct. HE could have left and to "fight another day." But no, they had to kill him because the season is ending soon...Although, good episode overall. Hoping that Michael cloned himself or something.Maybe he will team up with Todd...I believe Prodigal was filmed before cancelation. Besides revenge sometimes takes over common sense.

Heqet
November 8th, 2008, 06:45 AM
Michael had the chance to leave Atlantis and leave his hybrids to finish the self-destruct. HE could have left and to "fight another day." But no, they had to kill him because the season is ending soon...

Although, good episode overall. Hoping that Michael cloned himself or something.
Maybe he will team up with Todd...

Okay, see Todd has this little thing called HONOUR...
:) And thank the ancestors for it.

Pharaoh Atem
November 8th, 2008, 06:48 AM
i want those cars

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 06:49 AM
When they were figthing on the balcony and the camera went around, than I could feel this scene is epic. ;)

I think this darker tone will work in Universe too. :o

The camera angle with the music was just perfect for the mood.

jelgate
November 8th, 2008, 06:50 AM
i want those carsCome to my house. I have a crate full in my attic:P

Ikaros
November 8th, 2008, 07:06 AM
This episode was amazing, one that will be remempered as one of Atlanti's best imo.
It just had it ALL.
-Unfulfilled love.I almost felt sad for poor Michael, trying until the last moment to take Teyla with him. He had the baby's DNA , he stayed back for her.Poor guy...Died from his loves hand...
-Teyla "The Warrior Princess" , i rest my case....
-Ronon getting some lessons.First beeing saved by a lady(and what a lady) and then beeing thrown over a balcony.. by Michael.
-Mckay, Zelenka and the stun bubble, that moment was hillarius.They where great, as always.
-Mckay's pieces all over those stairs... i lmao, poor nerd..
-Was that yellow car a Porche? I loved that they went back playing with their cars after they took care of the bad guy.. so clise bad so cool.
-The little guy's laugh ;)
-The scene where Teyla decides Michael's faith. Angry mum kicking a**
-Woolsey and Ronon trying to communicate... and managing it!!
;( One episode less damn them.....................

wanttobesam
November 8th, 2008, 07:25 AM
I have just one question... where was Kanaan through all this? Are we to assume he was knocked out or just not on Atlantis?

He was on the mainland with the rest of their people. Teyla refered to this in begining when she was walking with the baby.

Pic
November 8th, 2008, 07:34 AM
yes, an amazing ep!!!
Why? did they cancel this again?

Teyla actually had some character depth displayed in this episode. Amazing! I had almost forgotten that I liked Teyla. I'm glad she's back! Go Teyla!!

The banter between Radek & Rodney with the whole "stun bubble" thing cracked me up.

Ronon & Woolsey start bonding. awe...

The gate-room chic (I forget her name at the moment) so totally kicks butt~!! Maybe Ronon should ask her to dinner or sparring or something ;)

I could've done without Rodney getting all emo with John in the jumper. It's like they're forcing McShep on us or something (vomit). But I did love how John blew it off and sent Rodney to fly the thing anyway.

Can we just be done with Michael already? Oh. Wait.... ;)

kymeric
November 8th, 2008, 07:37 AM
Good ep! I was suprised they actually killed Michael, kinda expected a big movie ending to him. The hand to hand fighting on the outside of the tower was epic. Didnt see Teyla coming out to finish him off, suprise! I suppose well have a million posts screaming MURDER MURDER GENOCIDE GENOCIDE now /eyeroll.

Wonder wut they ment by someone taking his place? Think he cloned himself incase he died? Kinda the same problem with Baal, you never know if u really killed him.



Edit: if you fall more than 5 stories you burst like a watermellon, if he hit the city he left a stain, if he hit the water he still popped, just his parts sank down to feed some spacefish.

Ikaros
November 8th, 2008, 07:46 AM
The gate-room chic (I forget her name at the moment) so totally kicks butt~!! Maybe Ronon should ask her to dinner or sparring or something ;)
I think it's Amelia. She really is quite an addition to the show.Shame there is no longer a show....#@#@#@#@#@


I could've done without Rodney getting all emo with John in the jumper. It's like they're forcing McShep on us or something (vomit).

Yes that moment was to mutch IMO to. It wasn't like it was their first time in a difficult situation.They said so themselves, but still it looked weird for Rodney to do such a gesture. He can't have become so soft!(and showing it).

Atlantis15
November 8th, 2008, 07:51 AM
I totally loved this ep. For some reason I just loved Amelia Banks kicking that guys head in, there is just something soo great about a little tech beating the crap out of a michael minion maybe because they never really got the chance in the past but awsome.

I'm glad Michael is dead. Don't mess with TJ.

bluealien
November 8th, 2008, 08:26 AM
This episode was Atlantis at it's best, and my favourite episode of the season, right up there with Search and Rescue. It featured all the characters that make the show great, and just shows that there is no need for barbie doctors or love triangles. The team and their interaction is the highlight of the show.

Favourite moments were Woolsey/Ronon... Woolsey has been one of the highlights of the season and has really done a great job interacting with everyone. He just fits in like a glove.
Rodney/Radek and their little spat about stun bubbles ..priceless.
I enjoyed the McKay/Sheppard banter here, it felt more genuine and natural than in previous episodes. Not that fussed about the boys playing with their toys.

Teyla/Michael interaction was awesome and Connor Trinneer did a wonderful job of showing Michael as the meglomaniac one moment and the slighted admirer the next. As twisted as he had become I still felt sorry for him and his undoing really was his feelings for Teyla, no matter how warped they were.

Teyla was awesome in this episode and it was such a pleasure to see her get something decent to do. Why can't the writers do her justice more often. I loved the ending with her coming to save John's life, and her pushing Michael over the egde. Great ending for Michael and I loved the look on John's face, it was a mixture of shock and awe..

The fight sequences were some of the best I have seen in a while. Both the Michael/Ronon and the Michael/John were extremely well done and actually got my adrenalin pumping watching both of them.
It's nice to see Teyla laugh and interact with her team mates. We havn't seen enough of this in season 5 and it's the small moments like this that make the difference as the chemistry and dynamic between the characters fuels my enjoyment of the show.

Great to see John interacting with Teyla again, have missed their wonderful dynamic as much of the team interaction has been missing this season. Amelia Banks was great as well. I'm really liking her a lot and loved her interaction with Ronon.

So overall a great ep.. a few nitpicks but not enough to hamper my enjoyment so a solid 9/10

Killdeer
November 8th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Well, after taking a break for a few episodes, coming back to this one was a real treat. This episode was practically perfect in every way. I say practically because I still think it would have been more impacting for the hand to hand fight on the tower to be between Teyla and Michael rather than John and Michael. Sorry Shep Whumpers. :o I think him being there to see Teyla's ruthlessness was a great touch, but the big fight should have been Teyla's IMO. That was the biggest disappointment of the episode for me. I've been looking forward to a good Teyla fight all season, and this looked like the best chance for it to happen. :(

But other than that, I loved it. I've been so missing the John and Rodney interactions, and this was great for that. Loved the scenes with them playing cars bookending the episode, and loved Teyla having fun with the boys - I'm not sure I've ever seen her just hanging out with John and Rodney, and I loved it. Woolsey and Ronon - awesome. :) That was a great touch to pair those two together for scenes, and Woolsey helping Teyla escape, and Amelia's kickboxing - you go, girl! :D Could this be the new love interest for Ronon that JM made some vague hint about? I don't think I'd mind. :)

Ronon's fight with Michael was great, and I gasped when he was thrown over the railing. I'm glad they didn't have him just get up and walk away from that. John and Rodney working together, and especially their scenes in the jumper, the acknowledgement that Shep's flown a few too many suicide missions, and Rodney's obvious reluctance to let it happen.

I'm sure there's other things I liked that I've missed, but all in all, I think this is my favorite episode that I've seen of this season. I wouldn't change a thing except, as already noted, the tower fight. But Teyla standing there watching him fall - that was a great shot. You go, Teyla. This episode was practically a checklist of everything I wanted to see. Michael storyline ended - check. Teyla being the one to kill him - check (y'all will remember I've been campaigning for this for quite some time). Kanaan surviving - check. The baby not getting kidnapped - check. Teyla not playing damsel in distress - check. Shep and McKay goodness - check. And the Ronon/Woolsey/Amelia stuff and the Rodney/Shep/Teyla scene at the end were just awesome extras. :) I score it 9/10 - would be 10/10 if the tower fight had been Teyla's.

As a quibble (not effecting my scoring of the episode), it would have been nice if they'd thrown in a line explaining just how Michael can fly the puddlejumpers. :S And I've kinda given up at this point on the Teyla's super Wraith powers storyline. Which is fine. If it was going to appear anywhere, I would have thought it would have been The Queen or this one. Since it didn't appear in either, I'm just going to conclude they must have abandoned that particular development. Oh, and one other quibble - Ronon's wig. It's becoming more and more annoying as time goes on. *headdesk* Curses on the network for making him keep that. :S

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 08:56 AM
As a quibble (not effecting my scoring of the episode), it would have been nice if they'd thrown in a line explaining just how Michael can fly the puddlejumpers. :S And I've kinda given up at this point on the Teyla's super Wraith power storyline. Which is fine. If it was going to appear anywhere, I would have thought it would have been The Queen or this one. Since it didn't appear in either, I'm just going to conclude they must have abandoned that particular development.

I think the episode "Infection" will bring this back.

jelgate
November 8th, 2008, 08:59 AM
It really doesn't surprise me. I imagine given enough time the neural interface can be tricked or be removed for a more manual control.

prion
November 8th, 2008, 09:06 AM
Edit: if you fall more than 5 stories you burst like a watermellon, if he hit the city he left a stain, if he hit the water he still popped, just his parts sank down to feed some spacefish.

Hmm, actually, no. There have been cases of people falling a LOT further than that and surviving (parachuting accidents). But it depends on what you land on (concrete is unforgiving, water not so much if you're damned lucky like the fighter pilot who fell two miles). You achieve terminal velocity so can't go any faster, but after rewatching the episode at hte end, he hit concrete, metal, but not water, so, they'll need a shovel, hose and broom to slush off the remains.

prion
November 8th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Michael had the chance to leave Atlantis and leave his hybrids to finish the self-destruct. HE could have left and to "fight another day." But no, they had to kill him because the season is ending soon...

Although, good episode overall. Hoping that Michael cloned himself or something.
Maybe he will team up with Todd...

Hopefully Michael didn't clone himself. I mean, Ba'al was cloned, Carson was cloned. Been there, done that.

Michael really had to die, otherwise he'd just be the villain who makes a nuisance of himself and constantly escapes, which makes our heroes look stupid. And I thought it was great TEyla did the final dispatch as she had a more personal connectionwith Michael, and hey, if some whacko meglomanic threatened my kid (if I had), he'd be over the side, too. Really, the guy can't be trusted...

marielabbott
November 8th, 2008, 09:52 AM
I actually really liked this episode. It was by far the best of the season, imo.

There were nice moments between a number of the characters. I appreciated the Rodney/Sheppard scenes, especially the one in the jumper, because we have not had many friendship scenes between those two this season. I loved seeing Zelenka again, muttering to himself, and the banter with McKay. Why can't we have a spin-off staring Zelenka? I would give that one a try. :) It was also great to see Lorne again, and see him working in tandem with Sheppard with his team (Sheppard said Lorne had a team--I wish we knew who they were). And Sheppard went to check on Lorne after he went down, nice little touch. Even the Ronon/Woolsey scenes worked well.

And Teyla...finally, she has some material to work with, even though she was stuck listening to madman Michael with a baby in her arms for a lot of the episode. But I thought the final fight scene was great, with her stepping in to save Sheppard, and ultimately pushing Michael over the edge. From just a practical standpoint, she should not have reached down and taken his arm to pull him up. They were on a ledge and he could've potentially unbalanced her and caused her to fall. If he had been a person they could trust not to attack them in the rescue attempt, Teyla and Sheppard should've tried to save him, but he was a wild card who might've killed them, and one who was guilty of genocide to boot.

I also appreciated that we actually got to see the heroes get hurt this episode. Ronon gets beat in that great fight sequence, Sheppard gets his face smashed against Atlantis in his battle with Michael, Woolsey falls down a flight of stairs, Lorne gets knocked unconcious. All this, plus shooting in the dark and getting a real sense of the size of Atlantis for maybe the first time, added tension to the episode. I wish there had been more episodes like this this season.


Oh, and one other quibble - Ronon's wig. It's becoming more and more annoying as time goes on. *headdesk* Curses on the network for making him keep that. :S

When Michael said he was going to collect one more prize, and bent over Ronon with his knife, for a moment I thought he was going to scalp him. :p

crowmagnumman
November 8th, 2008, 10:12 AM
One of the better episodes of the season. Still had its problems, but overall I thought it was an improvement.

The gate girl suddenly going kung fu was pretty awful, in my opinion. It seems like they're setting up a pairing between her and Ronon.

EvenstarSRV
November 8th, 2008, 10:40 AM
But aside from these two questions, I liked it and my favourite bit gotta be when Teyla kicked Michael off the ledge, like how cool was that shot?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/CAPTX/supermum.png
"Don't mess with a mom or we will mess with you!"

Great capture, I loved that shot of Teyla standing over Michael. As some others have said I kinda wished that Teyla had gotten to fight a bit more, but on the other hand I loved the efficiency of her fighting. A few quick blows and Michael's holding on for his life. Supermom indeed. :teyla25:

hisg1fans
November 8th, 2008, 11:07 AM
I haven't read all the posts, but saw a few relating to Michael taking a 'trohpy' from Ronan and speculating on exactly what he would have done.

My guess is Michael would have taken off Ronan's head and held it up like he did with the Wraith queen in last year's season ender.

Any other guesses?

Skydiver
November 8th, 2008, 12:15 PM
5.) Why didnt the team that was captured and gave info to him give him a phony iris code that would make atlantis base raise the shield like in Forsaken with jonas and the chick.

I've always wondered why the sgc doesn't have this as a standard protocol. a 'coming back under duress' code...when they have to dial back but don't want to or are being made to

as to teyla and michael....if she hadn't have killed him it would have ruined the whole eps...because he's like freddy krugar, or mckay accurately compared him to a roach, in that he doen'st die and go away like he should. If teyla was merciful, michael would have haunted her and toran's life forever

Skydiver
November 8th, 2008, 12:17 PM
did he specifically say trophy? cause my idea was that he intended to kill ronon

jenks
November 8th, 2008, 12:20 PM
did he specifically say trophy? cause my idea was that he intended to kill ronon

He said he was 'collecting one last prize'. My take on it was that he was about to take Ronon's head.

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 12:35 PM
I've always wondered why the sgc doesn't have this as a standard protocol. a 'coming back under duress' code...when they have to dial back but don't want to or are being made to

as to teyla and michael....if she hadn't have killed him it would have ruined the whole eps...because he's like freddy krugar, or mckay accurately compared him to a roach, in that he doen'st die and go away like he should. If teyla was merciful, michael would have haunted her and toran's life forever

I'm not sure what it's called, Foreshadowing maybe? Basically Mckay's comment about Michael being a Cockroach was exactly how Teyla treated him when she decided to let him fall.

I agree, Michael had to be killed in this episode. Another escape would of brought the build up to this episode to nothing. The scene with Sheppard and Michael fighting on the outskirts of Atlantis will always be a memorable moment in the series to me.

Just to compare eps..

I will never forget the moment when Sheppard shot Kolya to save Weir in "The Eye". Hopefully that powerful moment will be shown in the next episode. Along with all the other Kolya and Sheppard heated moments

Starsaber
November 8th, 2008, 12:44 PM
He said he was 'collecting one last prize'. My take on it was that he was about to take Ronon's head.

I was thinking he'd be getting a DNA sample to clone Ronon, then use the hybrid treatment on the clone. Imagine an army of cloned Ronon hybrids :thoranime09:

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
November 8th, 2008, 12:51 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. The fight scenes were awesome and the end fight really got the heart going because you knew earlier Michael had beaten Ronon and threw him off the balcony and he's alot tougher than Sheppard. Of course you knew he wasn't really gonna die. I thought for a second Lorne might have gotten the chop until they said "He's just unconscious".
Joel pulled out all the stops in this ep. The music was great and added to the epicness.
A great end and long over due end for Michael

Skydiver
November 8th, 2008, 01:20 PM
He said he was 'collecting one last prize'. My take on it was that he was about to take Ronon's head.
i got that too...although i was hoping that he was gonna hack off the wig of doom :)

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 01:21 PM
i got that too...although i was hoping that he was gonna hack off the wig of doom :)

A little something for memorabila? :p

2BAM
November 8th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Wow, great episode.

Michael lost it more than once, Ronon and Michael got to finally duke it out, McKay and Zelenka bickered, and Teyla kicked butt. Definitely an awesome episode.

Kudos to the fight choreographer. The Ronon/Michael fight and the Sheppard/Michael fight were just brutal.

Oh, and Sheppard and McKay finally acknowledging the numerous suicide missions? Great bit.

"You had two years"! Great line! :D
Why thank you very much!!

CazzBlade
November 8th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Hi Bam Bam :) I have to agree! I was on the edge of my seat during that final fight scene :D:P One of my favourite of Stargate ever :)

Briangate78
November 8th, 2008, 02:10 PM
Hey Bam Bam, excellent job with this episode. The fight cordination really brought out a lot in this episode! :)

Ruffles
November 8th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Oooh, very good point. Perhaps he has super sensory capabilities of detecting wraith-like people. Maybe more than his mom.

Also, what happened to the off-world team? How did Michael get this information, were they captured?

I was under the impression Michael thought Torren's abilities would be much stronger than Teyla's. That's why Michael wanted him.

As for Nelson's team, their fate was left to the imagination, but knowing Michael, they are very, very dead. He "convinced" the team in Vengeance to radio Weir and give her false information. I'm sure he was equally persuasive here. He either turned them into hybrids where they have to do his biddiing or gave his pet Iratus bugs a snack.


Hmm well the scene was very well done. She did hesitate, but Michael killed so many people, and used her child, and turned the father of her baby into a Hybrid. When you look at Sheppard's face it is like Sheppard is almost saying, do it. Michael did deserve to die, but it is just so moral knowing Atlantis was the one who created him. So does the creator of the monster have the right to kill his own invention? Truly very deep.

I didn't see hesitation in Teyla. I saw deliberateness. She slowly kicked his hands away, looking in his eyes. She knew exactly what she was doing - killing the being responsible for so much pain and death in the galaxy, for her personally as well as for all the other worlds (which she had been recently reminded of in "Inquisition"). She promised in "Missing" that she would make whoever took her people pay. She kept that promise.


1) When the splash destroyed half the puddlejumper, why didn't the other half of the ship explode? Is it cos the main power drives were at the rear of the jumper hence didn't pose a problem with it getting half-destroyed?

Why would the ship explode because half was severed? Are you thinking that if the power cells had been in the front half the severed circuits would have overloaded?

I think the power cells/drive/whatever must have been in the back for it to have shut down so quickly (no sparks, etc).


2) With the countdown programmed to the puddlejumper and the Atlantis system, when normal power was returned to the city, wouldn't the self-destruct program be still in place but with the source of the power be replaced from the puddlejumper to the ZPM? Is it that simple to disengage Atlantis' self-destruct, by basically turning the city off and turning back on again much like a PC?

My understanding was the jumper was powering the systems Michael had running. Once that power was cut, the systems it was operating went off.


He said he was 'collecting one last prize'. My take on it was that he was about to take Ronon's head.

At first, I thought he was just going to slit Ronon's throat, but I like your idea much better.

Linda06
November 8th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Hi Bam Bam :) I have to agree! I was on the edge of my seat during that final fight scene :D:P One of my favourite of Stargate ever :)

Yeah the Teyla/Michael scene was great huh :p

morjana
November 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Why thank you very much!!

Hi, BamBam!

I actually yelled out "ouch" when Ronon fell from the balcony, and "all right" when Teyla dispatched Michael.

Very brutal, realistic, intense fight scenes with Ronon/Michael, Bates/Michael Minion, Shep/Michael, Teyla/Michael. And Joel Goldsmith's music in that last fight sequence was like an extra scoop of hot fudge on a sundae.

Thanks to everyone involved -- and Thank You!

jelgate
November 8th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Hi, BamBam!

I actually yelled out "ouch" when Ronon fell from the balcony, and "all right" when Teyla dispatched Michael.

Very brutal, realistic, intense fight scenes with Ronon/Michael, Bates/Michael Minion, Shep/Michael, Teyla/Michael. And Joel Goldsmith's music in that last fight sequence was like an extra scoop of hot fudge on a sundae.

Thanks to everyone involved -- and Thank You!

I thought the same thing when I saw Ronon get thrown from the control room. It looked realastic in the effect that has to hurt. All the fight scenes were good but I really thought the Ronon/Michael fight was one of Stargates' best

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 03:27 PM
I kinda wish they had shown someone covering up his body or at least a body covered up in the lab (I was hoping that was what Woosley was walking into when he was in the medical wing). I would have accepted that ending more than the happy go lucky gushing

I think he fell in the ocean. There's no way to have retrived a body from that and even if he didn't he was probably a pancake.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 03:28 PM
I have just one question... where was Kanaan through all this? Are we to assume he was knocked out or just not on Atlantis?

Teyla said he was off-world visiting their people.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Why did Michael decide in the end to not keep his word when he had Teyla dead to rights? I don't get it.

Because he never intended to shut off the self-destruct. He was too focused on revenge. He was just gonna get Teyla to come to him and possibly come with him, but never shut off the self-destruct.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 03:33 PM
My ****ing connection ****ed up just as they stormed the control room and I didn't get it back until Teyla murdered Michael. Sods law in action. :mad:

That was self-defense and justice. His hybrids were killed and he tried to steal another Puddle Jumper and fly out the roof but was stopped when Zelenka closed it. He climbed some sort of stairwell and ended up on a balcony near the top of the tower where he duked it out with Sheppard who was no match for him. Teyla intervened and knocked him off the tower and then kicked his hands so he'd fall to his death.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:10 PM
His head, I assume.

The prize was Ronon's death. He wanted to personally kill him. That's all that was.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:13 PM
FCOL! That was NOT the way to end it!! Aargh, I know all things must come to an end, but that was too soon. TPTB have absolutely no clue how to handle the baddies.

Good: What can I say? I’ve been a huge Michael fan since his first appearance, so I was looking forward to this episode as soon as I found out about it.
Michael-Ronon fight scene was over quickly but proved that the hybrids would doubtlessly rule the galaxy if their numbers were greater. Which is why I couldn’t understand why the Michael-Sheppard lasted so long.
Rodney proves Jackisms are contagious, FCOL!
The baby playing Torren was so cute, and I for one and glad they didn’t bump him off.

If it had to happen, I guess I’m glad it was Teyla who got to do it; although once again we saw a main character make an action that would usually keep most people awake for at least a few nights. And as always, everyone acts like nothing happened. *sigh*

Bad:The end! The entire thing! Except for maybe the part with Ronon and Woolsey.

Eh I think the fight with Ronon only ended like that due to him being thrown off the balcony otherwise it probably would have gone on longer and Michael probably would have been killed.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Teyla kicking ass? That woman technician kicked ass! (don't know her name)

Ameila Banks. Teyla called her Ameila and Ronon called her Banks. Besides her name has been given in previous episodes.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:18 PM
I was under the impression Michael thought Torren's abilities would be much stronger than Teyla's. That's why Michael wanted him.

As for Nelson's team, their fate was left to the imagination, but knowing Michael, they are very, very dead. He "convinced" the team in Vengeance to radio Weir and give her false information. I'm sure he was equally persuasive here. He either turned them into hybrids where they have to do his biddiing or gave his pet Iratus bugs a snack.



I didn't see hesitation in Teyla. I saw deliberateness. She slowly kicked his hands away, looking in his eyes. She knew exactly what she was doing - killing the being responsible for so much pain and death in the galaxy, for her personally as well as for all the other worlds (which she had been recently reminded of in "Inquisition"). She promised in "Missing" that she would make whoever took her people pay. She kept that promise.



Why would the ship explode because half was severed? Are you thinking that if the power cells had been in the front half the severed circuits would have overloaded?

I think the power cells/drive/whatever must have been in the back for it to have shut down so quickly (no sparks, etc).



My understanding was the jumper was powering the systems Michael had running. Once that power was cut, the systems it was operating went off.



At first, I thought he was just going to slit Ronon's throat, but I like your idea much better.

I agree with everything. I think he was just going to slit Ronon's throat and the Jumper was powering everything Michael was doing so that's why the self destruct stopped, he said he wanted power switched back only a split second before they left so the self-destruct would continue and the team wouldn't get the chance to disarm it.

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Excellent episode! I loved it!

Nice intro where Woolsey was asking Ronon about why he never writes mission reports. I always wondered if he wrote any. I figured he couldn't write/type - at least in English. "I'm not good at talking..." was great!

McKay and Sheppard racing the toy cars was nice. I'm surprised that McKay knew about car maintenance.

I noticed that they rearranged the event order slightly again like in other episodes but at least it was only that one scene.

I wonder what Michael learned from the jumper about Atlantis. How did he get a team's IDC and have it still be valid?

The stun bubble was a lot of like the AR field from the jumper in "Lifeline" but Michael was smart enough to put the access points in an up and down path instead of left-right that way, nobody could just run through and wake up after a while. Did anyone else notice that?

Michael was really pissed at Teyla. Did he really take a DNA sample of Torren or was he just lying?

I wish they mentioned how Michael managed to fly the jumper without the ATA gene? Or did he make a gene therapy as well? I always thought the ATA gene sensitivity in Ancient technology not only activated in the presence of the gene, but also rejected the Wraith, I guess the Ancients weren't smart enough to block the Wraith with the ATA gene. Or maybe since Michael is a hybrid, that wouldn't apply.

So Banks can fight, cool! Another thing I like about her. So, is Ronon into fighting women?

Michael's fight with Ronon was cool, I figured it would take place at the end of the episode though. Ronon got pushed off of that balcony, I was figuring he'd do that to Michael.

Nice to see McKay trying to fix something in a hurry again, especially considering it's the last season.

I forgot about the underwater jumper bay, it's good Sheppard thought of it.

McKay never fixed the jumpers! Hillarious! I figured we'd wind up with a scenario of one jumper has parts and the other has power.

Michael wanting to blow up Atlantis, how very evil. I figured he was lying when he was trying to coax Teyla out into the open, I like how she managed to call his bluff without exposing herself. Did Michael not know about the internal sensors or did they not have power?

I liked the plan of dialing the gate to desintegrate the back half of the jumper! The look on Michael's face was priceless! Why was the jumper bay roof open to begin with? Or did Michael do it?

I was wondering at first why Michael wanted the gate shield up at first, I guess that was why. Where was he intending on flying to? Why was there a door that opens up into the outside? I figured Michael was going to try and push Sheppard off, Telya went after him as well. That was a scary fight on top of the tower, I noticed that was the same wall that they used for Sheppard's climb in "Quarantine" - the fight was cool! I'm glad Teyla was the one who killed Michael by having him fall off of the edge of the tower and die. I hope he's really dead this time as it was a fitting end considering Michael's relations with Teyla.

The Ronon-Woolsey scene at the end was great! He made a report anyway! A very short and funny one that is.

McKay and Sheppard at the car racing again. Funny, Sheppard cheated.

Vala,

I think Michael probably forced Beckett to give him the gene therapy or one of his hybrids had the gene. I knew he was lying about the self-destruct, that was obvious. I think that was some kind of balcony near the top of the tower and that's what I refer to it as. The roof may just be left open for convience purposes but a better question is where he would go once he got out as a Jumper has no hyperdrive and the only Stargate is in Atlantis.

blkadr
November 8th, 2008, 04:26 PM
I'd love to know why Tayla just clutched her baby to her chest and talked to Michael instead of putting the baby down and kicking the $#@ out of him as she should have. She could've taken him out in five seconds, but no! I don't understand. She had plenty of opportunity to put the baby down and still take Michael out when his back was turned. (sigh)

Skydiver
November 8th, 2008, 04:29 PM
i think the only thing predictible about the ronon/michael fight was, how they set up the shot you just KNEW that someone was going over. It was cool that it was ronon...cause you knew that michael wasn't gonna die with 20 minutes left.

blkadr
November 8th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Well yeah, anybody could die now. I'm still pissed off about Tayla's actions though. She should be kicked off the team... I'm acting like this is real, and that's embarrassing. She should be kicked off the team because her priorities have been compromised.

Corona
November 8th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Being reply 165 it's hard to be original, but I have something!

This entire mess was Woolsey's fault and the repercussions should be severe.

The off world team is early and unresponsive, just transmitting the IDC. Woolsey knows this is a problem since he is a stickler for the book. This is where he gets impatient and in an 'aw screw it' moment, allowed the defenses dropped and which makes him personally responsible for any deaths, injuries and damage which resulted. As he would say, he violated protocol!

Mr. Woolsey! Report to the gate. You have a date with an IOA review board on Earth!

Great ep!

jelgate
November 8th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Being reply 165 it's hard to be original, but I have something!

This entire mess was Woolsey's fault and the repercussions should be severe.

The off world team is early and unresponsive, just transmitting the IDC. Woolsey knows this is a problem since he is a stickler for the book. This is where he gets impatient and in an 'aw screw it' moment, allowed the defenses dropped and which makes him personally responsible for any deaths, injuries and damage which resulted. As he would say, he violated protocol!

Mr. Woolsey! Report to the gate. You have a date with an IOA review board on Earth!

Great ep!

Its not uncommon for teams to report back early especially if they are coming in hot

WarGrowlmon18
November 8th, 2008, 05:46 PM
A being of free will who was stripped of his alien body and assigned a human persona. When one cast him out and other refused to accept him unless he became what he was not, what the hell else was Michael suppose to do? Lay down and die?

Michael's claim to power has always been in the name of his survival. And he is justified in his actions because neither race would allow him to let him live unless he became either what he was not or the taint we induced. And in that frame of mind, when you are neither wraith nor human and cast out by everyone...what on earth are you suppose to do?

Create others like you.

And in doing to Michael realized both the weaknesses of being human and wraith. He wanted to show everyone that for all the failure they saw in him he had managed to perfect his body and his situation. The release of the Hoffman Drug was his first steps in showing the wraith that they could cripple their entire race by taking out their food source.

I'm sorry, but I side with Michael. I can see why he did what he did and I sympathize with him.

Tyrant he is not, and we are in someway still guilty for everything that he did.

I only agree that we are partialy responsible but if all Michael wanted to do was make more beings like him, then he could have taken those other Wraith that undoubtedly survived in Misbegotten and were probably later killed by the Wraith or he could have just made his hybrids and not tried to rule the galaxy. No: he is responsible for nearly all of his own actions and seriously needed to die.

Dr Lee
November 8th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Mallozzi's talked about this epi on his blog...Just a couple of biuts that popped out at me, thought they might be appriciated here.

6. Running gag #1: Whenever we screened this episode in the writers’ room and we got to the scene where Michael gets on the P.A. and promises to turn off the self-destruct and save the city in exchange for her son, one of us would pipe up: “Teyla, it’s Chuck! Give him the baby!”

7. Running gag #2: Whenever Michael would drop off the ledge and plummet down into the darkness, we would imagine Chuck stepping out onto one of the lower balconies for a smoke - only to get creamed by Michael who, fall broken, would hop up none the worse for wear and make good his escape.

8. While they were shooting the climactic tower fight sequence, there was one take in which Connor flipped the Sheppard stunt actor who was supposed to roll and save himself by grabbing hold of a part of the structure - only the stuntman missed and went right over, landing amidst the safety mats below. Connor immediately threw his arms up in triumph and shouted: “I WIN!!!”, much to the crew’s delight.

Linky (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/november-8-2008-doggy-delight-and-some-prodigal-notes/)

Corona
November 8th, 2008, 05:58 PM
Teams may come back early or hot, but Gen. Hammond would have had the guns trained on the gate.

No, there was room for doubt and Woolsey did not take appropriate steps to protect Atlantis. It was entirely his call.

Skydiver
November 8th, 2008, 06:00 PM
now that last bit, the 'i win', better make it on a blooper reel. cause it'd be hysterical

Mekarri
November 8th, 2008, 06:45 PM
I disagree that everything Michael did was his fault. The whole reason I began watching Atlantis was because of what we did to Michael and the fact that no one would ever own up to it even when Michael had them all dead to rights.

Michael has been right from the very beginning. All that he has done could have been prevented as long as we hadn't turned him into our test subject. Everything after that has been to stay alive since neither human or wraith would accept him after what we did to him.

Michael is our fault and everything he has done is our fault too.

We created the monster.
Sae, you are correct. They did create Michael without regards as to how it would effect the worlds around them. And they why they don't seem to understand that they are responsible for the death on so many, is beyond me. Another thing, why Teyla and Ronon isn't more angry at the people of Atlantis is something else I don't quite get. Regardless, I love SGA and will be sorry to see it end.

Mekarri
November 8th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Survival does not entail what Michael did.



I feel for Michael, I really do. But that does not justify what he did. Michael didn't have a choice in the matter. But he became worse than someone who didn't care about his choice. He became hypocritical. There are plenty of unsettled worlds out there Michael could have hidden on.



I'm different. So I'm going to create others like me. Hmm.



And from here, the accountability of Atlantis stopped. Michael chose to do something in his position, without any outside interference or continued influence from Atlantis, and commit murder. He became the hypocrite who began experimenting on others. We may be responsible for his fall, but ultimately, Michael is responsible only and of himself.



Sympathizing doesn't mean you have to justify everything he does. The level of accountability has passed.



He programmed those that he experimented on to be loyal solely and only to him. He was the de facto leader, and they couldn't kill him. Michael was worse than us, we didn't take away his free will.
I would like to say that I don't identify or agree with anything Michael has done. They should have saw it coming from a mile away. But I do believe that every life that Michael destroyed is the fault of the people of Atlantis. I don't have a problem with them experimenting on Michael he was a wraith. The problem I have with the people of Atlantis is not having a plan in place that would kill Michael in an instant if he were to attempt an escape. Michael should have ALWAYS had a kill switch.

Corona
November 8th, 2008, 07:13 PM
The alternative would have been a dead Wraith who would not turn into Michael. Why would they have kept it alive?

We learned that Wraith hybrids can't fly! Michael should have engineered that detail into himself.

Ruffles
November 8th, 2008, 09:33 PM
I'd love to know why Tayla just clutched her baby to her chest and talked to Michael instead of putting the baby down and kicking the $#@ out of him as she should have. She could've taken him out in five seconds, but no! I don't understand. She had plenty of opportunity to put the baby down and still take Michael out when his back was turned. (sigh)

I have to admit, that was my first thought as well. Then Michael whipped Ronon and Sheppard. Teyla probably would have lost to Michael. Regardless, she wasn't going to just put him down. She didn't let go until he was in the hands of someone she trusted. Torren is her child. Nothing is more important. If she'd attacked Michael, one of the hybrids would have intervened anyway.


now that last bit, the 'i win', better make it on a blooper reel. cause it'd be hysterical

I thought we weren't getting bloopers on S5 DVDs.


Sae, you are correct. They did create Michael without regards as to how it would effect the worlds around them. And they why they don't seem to understand that they are responsible for the death on so many, is beyond me. Another thing, why Teyla and Ronon isn't more angry at the people of Atlantis is something else I don't quite get. Regardless, I love SGA and will be sorry to see it end.

You say that as if Michael had no choice but to do what he did. Michael made his own choices. He didn't have to attack those worlds. He didn't have to seek revenge. He could have found a quiet world somewhere and lived out his life.

Let's compare him to Todd. He was imprisoned by Kolya for years, used as a torture device which was torture itself (by starvation). He didn't go on a murderous rampage against Kolya or the Genii or any humans (well, any more than any other Wraith). He slowly, methodically rebuilt his life, established his place. He's wiley, clever, deceitful. He's Wraith. But he isn't a psychopath.

Michael is a being with free will. Atlantis' error was in not killing him when they had the chance (No Man's Land/Misbegotten). Before that, they were trying to find a way to end the war without genocide - by eliminating the Wraith's need to feed.

Mekarri
November 8th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I have to admit, that was my first thought as well. Then Michael whipped Ronon and Sheppard. Teyla probably would have lost to Michael. Regardless, she wasn't going to just put him down. She didn't let go until he was in the hands of someone she trusted. Torren is her child. Nothing is more important. If she'd attacked Michael, one of the hybrids would have intervened anyway.



I thought we weren't getting bloopers on S5 DVDs.



You say that as if Michael had no choice but to do what he did. Michael made his own choices. He didn't have to attack those worlds. He didn't have to seek revenge. He could have found a quiet world somewhere and lived out his life.

Let's compare him to Todd. He was imprisoned by Kolya for years, used as a torture device which was torture itself (by starvation). He didn't go on a murderous rampage against Kolya or the Genii or any humans (well, any more than any other Wraith). He slowly, methodically rebuilt his life, established his place. He's wiley, clever, deceitful. He's Wraith. But he isn't a psychopath.

Michael is a being with free will. Atlantis' error was in not killing him when they had the chance (No Man's Land/Misbegotten). Before that, they were trying to find a way to end the war without genocide - by eliminating the Wraith's need to feed.
Michael didn't have a choice. You all act as if he was human to begin with. He was a wraith and wraith likes being wraith. Therefore you have two choices and that is kill or be killed. It should have been a no brainer that if this didn't work out as planed he should have been killed. I love SGA and SG but one of the main thing that bother me about both is that they never take responsibility for the havoc they cause on the galaxy. As if they can say oops my bad and that makes it alright. And by the way why do they always make Americans bumbling idiots that make a giant mess at everyone else expense and then spend years trying to fix it, just to make another blunder. Since this is Sci-Fi it would be nice if we can at least pretend that we have a conscience when it come to people other than ourselves.

huntress
November 8th, 2008, 11:58 PM
One of the better episodes from season five. Why? Very simple. For one thing, it was not just a John and Rodney show. I love them both to death but IMO the series was always the best when the whole crew was somehow involved and everyone got good scenes. Also, finally.....FINALLY Teyla was not the Invisible Woman but could kick some major butt. I was a bit sad to see Michael go but since this is the last season of SGA and we are now in the second half of it, it was time to finish some storylines off. I think they want to end the series with the Wraith problem finally solved. I loved a lot of small scenes in the episode. Woolsey and Ronon getting finally an understanding (and I loved it how Woolsey handled it), The boys and the toy cars was adorable and Zalenka and the stun bubbles. So yes...on the whole a very nice SGA episode.

Atlantis15
November 9th, 2008, 12:54 AM
Gotta say I loved the fighting in this, especially the fight between Michael and Sheppard on the side of the tower that looked like it hurt.

Also I know she has probably said it before but Teyla refered to the Atlantis people as her people which I found a little odd.

mr_kennedy
November 9th, 2008, 01:03 AM
i didnt think i would like this episode much but after watching i thought it was brilliant

ronan - im not very good at talking either lol

i never really liked michael much anyway

CazzBlade
November 9th, 2008, 04:59 AM
An excellent review of the episode: http://www.cliqueclack.com/tv/2008/11/08/stargate-atlantis-the-prodigal/

prion
November 9th, 2008, 06:31 AM
I would like to say that I don't identify or agree with anything Michael has done. They should have saw it coming from a mile away. But I do believe that every life that Michael destroyed is the fault of the people of Atlantis. I don't have a problem with them experimenting on Michael he was a wraith. The problem I have with the people of Atlantis is not having a plan in place that would kill Michael in an instant if he were to attempt an escape. Michael should have ALWAYS had a kill switch.

What's the old adage?... the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The earth folk wanted to eliminate a threat that would take the lives of millions of pegasus folk, thought this would be a good way, but... well, yeah, it was like Frankenstein. No different than questionable actions in wars on earth...

Yeah, well, the writers like to avoid stuff like that. They should have had an invisible fence collar on MIchael. Go outside the perimeter... ZAP!!!

JackHarkness_Hot
November 9th, 2008, 06:37 AM
Hmm, actually, no. There have been cases of people falling a LOT further than that and surviving (parachuting accidents). But it depends on what you land on (concrete is unforgiving, water not so much if you're damned lucky like the fighter pilot who fell two miles). You achieve terminal velocity so can't go any faster, but after rewatching the episode at hte end, he hit concrete, metal, but not water, so, they'll need a shovel, hose and broom to slush off the remains.

I don't know about turning into slush but the body definitely lost its skeletal integrity upon impact, the bones are broken so much that the body probably became jelly. If landed in a certain way, it might not go splat at all but say there were cuts creating "seams", then upon impact, the body will split along these cuts... (fillets yum yum!).

Atlantis15
November 9th, 2008, 07:03 AM
Well did any of you see that new ep of CSI where the women jumped out of the window and onto a bus because think it would be something like that basically soup in a skin.

prion
November 9th, 2008, 07:08 AM
I don't know about turning into slush but the body definitely lost its skeletal integrity upon impact, the bones are broken so much that the body probably became jelly. If landed in a certain way, it might not go splat at all but say there were cuts creating "seams", then upon impact, the body will split along these cuts... (fillets yum yum!).

well, definitely jelly. and it depends if he hits anything on the ground, and yeah, bodies can 'split' at the seams on impact (I've read far too many books) but some people have, er, imploded on contact.

jelgate
November 9th, 2008, 07:19 AM
well, definitely jelly. and it depends if he hits anything on the ground, and yeah, bodies can 'split' at the seams on impact (I've read far too many books) but some people have, er, imploded on contact.It would all depend on how he lands. I imagined his spinal cord broke into million pieces.

Atlantis15
November 9th, 2008, 07:22 AM
This is all getting kinda gross. lol

Shan Bruce Lee
November 9th, 2008, 07:23 AM
This is all getting kinda gross. lol

If by "kinda gross" you mean "kinda awesome"

JackHarkness_Hot
November 9th, 2008, 08:03 AM
Well did any of you see that new ep of CSI where the women jumped out of the window and onto a bus because think it would be something like that basically soup in a skin.

Yeah, it was cool.

I thought it was nifty, let's imagine Beckett doing an autopsy on Michael, gets a scalpel, makes an incision then all his "innards" jet outwards, but as we have all said, depends on his way of impact.

Briangate78
November 9th, 2008, 08:05 AM
Michael fell below to another Atlantis platform, there was no water. If he could survive that then I lost all faith in TPTB. :S

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:04 AM
There is NO justification for murder. None, never. Michael used the Hoffan drug not only to kill Wraith but humans as well. Outsiders proved that Michael could have kept the Hoffan drug from killing the human carriers, but he didn't. That's murder. Michael acted out of anger, not survival. All Michael had to do to survive was settle down on some abandoned world and clone. No, he abducted people against their will, converted them into his creatures, killed countless trying to perfect his process. They were expendable to him. The Expedition wanted him to be human, the Wraith wanted to kill him. At any time before he decided to mass murder, Michael could have decided to go the Todd route. The Expedition gave up trying to reconvert him. Michael, although not a tyrant (he had nothing to rule) was a demented former Wraith who out of vengeance decided to annihilate human and Wraith alike. That's not survival. that's genocide.

I agree, but he was a tyrant: he managed to rule the galaxy in the future in The Last Man and if he wasn't a tyrant he never would have done that.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:12 AM
She certainly isn't going to lose any sleep over it.

I wonder what's going to happen to Michael's hybrids now that he's dead...

There are no more hybrids. Keller reverted them all back in The Seed (she said so) and the hybrids that came with him were probably just ones that escaped his crusier with him. Two may have survived: the one Ronon stunned and the one Teyla knocked through the stun field. If they're still alive they'll likely be reverted back too.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:16 AM
What happen when you kill any tyrant?

Someone rises to power and takes over.

There's nothing left for them to take over. Michael's organization was destroyed between Search and Rescue and The Seed. That was mentioned during the briefing with Woolsey in that episode and alluded to by Michael during his conversation with Teyla. I think what Teyla meant when she said that someone else would take his place is that someone else would take his place as a threat to them. Someone always does: defeat the Goa'uld and Replicators the first time, the Ori take over, then Ba'al defeat them and well...... the series ended so there is no enemy to take over as they don't have a series anymore to create one for, defeat the Asurans and the Wraith and Michael take over again, defeat and finally kill Michael and a new enemy might replace him, maybe Todd because they did kinda piss him off.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:19 AM
Michael fell below to another Atlantis platform, there was no water. If he could survive that then I lost all faith in TPTB. :S

He's dead, Joe Mallozi said in his blog they decided it was time to wrap up the Michael storyline for good. Honestly I think they could have just ended it in Search and Rescue with him being killed when the Daedalus destroyed his crusier, but I actually liked it better this way. It was more fitting.

flameling
November 9th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I liked this episode. Nice chase and fight scenes. Love that it was Teyla who did him in and not Sheppard. But if they wanted to bring Michael back then couldn't they have an imperfect clone or something appear?

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:29 AM
My only problem with this episode is that he should have never been able to get to atlantis.

1.) The controls on the PJ are ATA

2.) Shouldn't atlantis detect a pulse of energy in the gate room and automatically respond kind of like what was done in Hot Zone

3.) (to beat a dead horse) The controls on the PJ are ATA

4.) How the hell did he get an iris code? It's not likely that ppl would give the code away.

5.) Why didnt the team that was captured and gave info to him give him a phony iris code that would make atlantis base raise the shield like in Forsaken with jonas and the chick.

They never did explain the flying the Puddle Jumper thing but my theory is that he forced Carson to give him the gene therapy (he's half-human so it may have worked) or one of his hybrids that he took with him had the gene. He said the Jumper gave him a lot of information, probably had a laptop (they've shown laptops in there before) that may have had Atlantis' gate address on it (never explained where he got that either) and maybe he ran into Major Nelson's team off-world somewhere (they said that it was his iris code) and "persuaded" them to give him the code like he "persuaded" the marines in Vengence to send that message to Weir.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:30 AM
I liked this episode. Nice chase and fight scenes. Love that it was Teyla who did him in and not Sheppard. But if they wanted to bring Michael back then couldn't they have an imperfect clone or something appear?

He's not coming back: Joe Malozi said in his blog that they were wrapping up this storyline.

Atlantis15
November 9th, 2008, 09:32 AM
I'm glad it was Teyla who finished him off as he had put her through a lot but what I'm not getting is why Joe Mallozzi said on his blog that they have a running gag going of him landing on Chuck. little odd.

flameling
November 9th, 2008, 09:36 AM
He's not coming back: Joe Malozi said in his blog that they were wrapping up this storyline.

Ok. Just needed confirmation. Loved how they ended it though, so close to success but having it just be gripped away because he wanted Ronon's head.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Oooh, very good point. Perhaps he has super sensory capabilities of detecting wraith-like people. Maybe more than his mom.

Also, what happened to the off-world team? How did Michael get this information, were they captured?

Actually he slept through the entire event. That's what she said. He's probably finally reached the point where he sleeps through the night. All babies reach that point at some point.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:44 AM
Am I the only one that didn't like the way Michael was killed? Or more specifically, the manner in which Teyla killed him?

Don't get me wrong, Teyla killing him was poetic justice and needed to happen for the sake of the story. But to simply brush his hands off the ledge seems...unworthy of their relationship and history.

If there was some sort of symbolism that TPTB meant to portray, I see it but I don't think it's necessarily the correct sort. Brushing something away with ones foot is usually reserved for garbage, trash, something unimportant and meaningless. Yes, Michael was at her mercy. Yes, she got in a few good punches before he fell off the ledge, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting something more epic.

The fight scenes were unequivacally phenomenal in this episode. Ronon and Michael, then Sheppard and Michael. And the CGI in the Sheppard/Michael fight was nicely done. But I would have liked some of that to be thrown Teyla's way. She's been proven to be an extraordinary fighter, and while I have no quibble with a more nurturing Teyla (she did have to take care of her child), I think I would have appreciated Michael's death more and Teyla role in it if that final fight had been her and Michael alone.

Maybe that's just me.

I liked the way he died. And she didn't brush his hands off the ledge, she kicked them off the ledge. I think it was better with her just stepping in at the end. Michael's obviously got some kind of super-strength in his hybrid form to be able to take on Ronon like that and win. Not even most Wraith can do that.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Well, I remember thinking during the Ronan/Michael fight, "Teyla, don't just stand there! put down the baby and help him!" Seriously, the two of them together might have been able to bring Michael down. Given their history, I agree it would have been better to have more Teyla/Michael action, but that means I'd probably lose the Shepard/Michael fight, which I really don't want. Hmm... dang impasses...

I think Teyla was more worried about protecting her son right then then fighting. She only went to fight after she gave him to Amelia to look after.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Sometimes I wonder.....

This is the same guy who started banging on the controls of the Daedalus when he couldn't get it to fire they way he wanted it to.

He was just pissed at the time and frustrated that's why he did that. I hit my computer sometimes when it doesn't work right and Ronon had no idea what he was doing really anyway as he'd refused the training Marks had offered him.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:52 AM
Don't park the Jumper in front of the Stargate!

It was too obvious.

It's why he raised the Gate Shield to prevent that from happening. He probably didn't anticipate them doing that and probably didn't know about the Underwater Jumper Bay so he probably figured he had all ways to dial the Gate covered even if they managed to lower the shield. He had the stun field extended two levels above and below the control room so he probably parked it there to have maximum effect.

jenks
November 9th, 2008, 09:56 AM
That was self-defense and justice. His hybrids were killed and he tried to steal another Puddle Jumper and fly out the roof but was stopped when Zelenka closed it. He climbed some sort of stairwell and ended up on a balcony near the top of the tower where he duked it out with Sheppard who was no match for him. Teyla intervened and knocked him off the tower and then kicked his hands so he'd fall to his death.

I wouldn't go that far, he was unarmed and helpless.


The prize was Ronon's death. He wanted to personally kill him. That's all that was.

Prove it.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:56 AM
Well, SGA is back in fighting form again! :)

I LOVED this episode!

The Sheppard/McKay banter was back and the dialogue had me cracking up! Wonderful job there and long overdue, IMO.

Loved the fights with Michael. Ronon's was great, as was Sheppard's.

I knew Michael was going to die, so I wasn't surprised, but I'm glad. CT did a great job though here.

Loved the Ronon/Woolsey stuff. ADORED Ronon's report at the end! :lol:

So much good stuff in this episode, and when Sheppard was following Michael to the tower I was so excited - and that's something I haven't been in a long while now.

Finally, the remote control car scenes, especially the first one, was just fantastic. I felt so happy! I also loved that it was acknowledged how many suicide missions Sheppard has run too.

So, IMO this is how an episode should be. Lots of Shep/McKay banter. A murderous villain's afoot, Teyla is in the episode and she's actually DOING something. Ronon and Woolsey play their parts too. And there are cool vis effects (the fight on the tower) and lots of hand to hand combat!

10/10 from me this week! Well done CB et al. :)

Yeah those car racing scenes were funny: "McKay, the nursing home called, they want their scooter back". Sheppard actually did say that. That was funny. Reminds me of something I read about in the newspaper during the Kerry/Bush election: some students at Yale wrote on the ground "hey Kerry, Frankenstien called, he wants his face back."

retiredat44
November 9th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Alright,, I hope these my remarks don't send people over the edge..

1)Maybe Michael cloned himslef and that was his clone?
2)Why didn't Michael just kill everyone as he surely could have when he knocked everyone out in the Gate Room..
3)As Michael buddies were saying, let's leave now, during the countdown, Michael just jerked around blowing his chance to leave (that wasn't the smart thing to do as he would have but the writers had to put the leaving Atlantis delay in the plot to make it all happen within the 1 hour show and his death).
4)I think that what is left of the Jumper Michael brought back will hold information in it's computer where Michael has been.
5)As other have said, seeing his dead body would have put an end to future plot holes.

Many other thoughts on all the bad moves put into the script.
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. Looks like we have more questions than answers... too bad the end of the series will stop us from learning more...

:)

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Best Part of the Episode: The cheesy fight between Sheppard, Teyla, & Ronon at the top of the tower. It was kinda over-the-top, but in a good Sci-Fi way.

Worst Part of the Episode:The toy cars. I can just imagine how cool the writers thought this would be....

What I really want to know: After 5 seasons of Atlantis, why are we finally getting the Atlantis personnel walking around the outside of the city? Does anyone even understand clearly how the city is layed out? It's been 2 years since we last heard about the underground jumper bay, and Rodney never fixed it in all that time? Bottom Line: The writers of SGA missed a huge opportunity to explore the massiveness of the city during the shows run.

Who knows: maybe the actors suggested throwing the toy cars in just for fun. Sometimes actors add little things in themselves like in The Shining that "here's Johnny" line was all Jack Nicholson and in The Fifth Element when Bruce Willis's charchter told Leelo that "I only speak two languages: English and Bad English" that was again all the actor. It's underwater Jumper Bay not underground Jumper Bay. And I thought that bay was unusable after The Return Part 2 anyway as the doors were jammed and it would flood if they opened and needed someone in a flooded control room using a dead man's switch to drain it. That was kinda funny though when McKay tried to defend himself for not fixing those Jumpers although from the sounds of it at least one may have been damaged beyond repair as it had no power unless power was taken from another Jumper.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't go that far, he was unarmed and helpless.



Prove it.

He went to cut Ronon's throat and he hated Ronon, what else could he have wanted??? A lock of his hair!!!!!!????????

Atlantis15
November 9th, 2008, 10:48 AM
Maybe he wanted to give him a shave ?
Just kidding he was soo going for his head probably thought it would look good on his mantelpiece.

jenks
November 9th, 2008, 10:49 AM
He went to cut Ronon's throat and he hated Ronon, what else could he have wanted??? A lock of his hair!!!!!!????????

His head.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 10:50 AM
A fine episode, very entertaining and hopefully that'll be it with Michael and his minions. Still plenty more adventures out there, y'know with the Wraith, probably some Gods that will take over the PG and after the team defeats the Gods, will have to face some other split faction of Ascended beings much like SG-1... **rambles on lol** Anyway, got a few questions about this episode.

1) When the splash destroyed half the puddlejumper, why didn't the other half of the ship explode? Is it cos the main power drives were at the rear of the jumper hence didn't pose a problem with it getting half-destroyed?

2) With the countdown programmed to the puddlejumper and the Atlantis system, when normal power was returned to the city, wouldn't the self-destruct program be still in place but with the source of the power be replaced from the puddlejumper to the ZPM? Is it that simple to disengage Atlantis' self-destruct, by basically turning the city off and turning back on again much like a PC?

But aside from these two questions, I liked it and my favourite bit gotta be when Teyla kicked Michael off the ledge, like how cool was that shot?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/CAPTX/supermum.png
"Don't mess with a mom or we will mess with you!"

Nice pic by the way. The tower was running off the Puddle Jumper's power. Michael planned to switch back a split second before he left so that the power getting cut off wouldn't effect it. Destroying the power source shut down all of the computers in the tower and the self-destruct. The only reason Radek was still able to continue using the computer in Rodney's lab was he had it hooked up to another power source.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 10:52 AM
His head.

Maybe but I don't think he's that nuts and he wouldn't have been able to cut off his head with just a knife.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Good, I liked it. Well, I yelled few times at Teyla like "hit him with something!" or "Run!" but in the end, she was great and I am glad she kicked him down. "Don´t mess with super-mom" could you say. Nice.

Car racing - awesome :D I love when Sheppard and McKay are like two little boys :D And the scene in the Jumper, how Rodney said good bye, it was a nice touch.

Also good old Zelenka/Rodney banter, and how they together saved the day. Cool:) And it was nice to hear my mother tongue again :D

Ronon got kicked his ass for a change, which is nice. His scenes with Woolsey were great, more of them, please!
Her name is Amelia and she is a kung-fu technician :D
But I missed Chuck :(

Lorne was here and got stunned. Again. :rolleyes: Seriously...

I liked it more than Inquisiton, which I, well, practically hated, but this episode was cool.

And as much as I like Michael (and Connor), I really hope he is dead now. It would completely destroyed the end of this episode, if he were still alive somehow.

Yeah and he's dead: Joe Mallozi pretty much confirmed it in his blog as he said that they were wrapping up the Michael storyline.

Atlantis15
November 9th, 2008, 11:04 AM
I think the thing I liked most about this ep is that they managed to get almost everyone involved in it.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 11:04 AM
Good ep! I was suprised they actually killed Michael, kinda expected a big movie ending to him. The hand to hand fighting on the outside of the tower was epic. Didnt see Teyla coming out to finish him off, suprise! I suppose well have a million posts screaming MURDER MURDER GENOCIDE GENOCIDE now /eyeroll.

Wonder wut they ment by someone taking his place? Think he cloned himself incase he died? Kinda the same problem with Baal, you never know if u really killed him.



Edit: if you fall more than 5 stories you burst like a watermellon, if he hit the city he left a stain, if he hit the water he still popped, just his parts sank down to feed some spacefish.

What I think they meant was someone was going to take his place as a threat them, that's all

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
November 9th, 2008, 11:09 AM
love the sheppard/michael fight and the toy car race Between sheppard and mckay.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Well, after taking a break for a few episodes, coming back to this one was a real treat. This episode was practically perfect in every way. I say practically because I still think it would have been more impacting for the hand to hand fight on the tower to be between Teyla and Michael rather than John and Michael. Sorry Shep Whumpers. :o I think him being there to see Teyla's ruthlessness was a great touch, but the big fight should have been Teyla's IMO. That was the biggest disappointment of the episode for me. I've been looking forward to a good Teyla fight all season, and this looked like the best chance for it to happen. :(

But other than that, I loved it. I've been so missing the John and Rodney interactions, and this was great for that. Loved the scenes with them playing cars bookending the episode, and loved Teyla having fun with the boys - I'm not sure I've ever seen her just hanging out with John and Rodney, and I loved it. Woolsey and Ronon - awesome. :) That was a great touch to pair those two together for scenes, and Woolsey helping Teyla escape, and Amelia's kickboxing - you go, girl! :D Could this be the new love interest for Ronon that JM made some vague hint about? I don't think I'd mind. :)

Ronon's fight with Michael was great, and I gasped when he was thrown over the railing. I'm glad they didn't have him just get up and walk away from that. John and Rodney working together, and especially their scenes in the jumper, the acknowledgement that Shep's flown a few too many suicide missions, and Rodney's obvious reluctance to let it happen.

I'm sure there's other things I liked that I've missed, but all in all, I think this is my favorite episode that I've seen of this season. I wouldn't change a thing except, as already noted, the tower fight. But Teyla standing there watching him fall - that was a great shot. You go, Teyla. This episode was practically a checklist of everything I wanted to see. Michael storyline ended - check. Teyla being the one to kill him - check (y'all will remember I've been campaigning for this for quite some time). Kanaan surviving - check. The baby not getting kidnapped - check. Teyla not playing damsel in distress - check. Shep and McKay goodness - check. And the Ronon/Woolsey/Amelia stuff and the Rodney/Shep/Teyla scene at the end were just awesome extras. :) I score it 9/10 - would be 10/10 if the tower fight had been Teyla's.

As a quibble (not effecting my scoring of the episode), it would have been nice if they'd thrown in a line explaining just how Michael can fly the puddlejumpers. :S And I've kinda given up at this point on the Teyla's super Wraith powers storyline. Which is fine. If it was going to appear anywhere, I would have thought it would have been The Queen or this one. Since it didn't appear in either, I'm just going to conclude they must have abandoned that particular development. Oh, and one other quibble - Ronon's wig. It's becoming more and more annoying as time goes on. *headdesk* Curses on the network for making him keep that. :S

Agreed. They haven't really had much time to develop the whole Teyla super-power thing because her charchter seems to be somewhat minimizied (probably due to Rachel Lutrell having a baby) and there haven't really been any big battles with the Wraith this season so she really hasn't had the chance to use them. In Spoils of War her baby was boosting her powers, so she won't be that powerful again.

Lythisrose
November 9th, 2008, 11:12 AM
He went to cut Ronon's throat and he hated Ronon, what else could he have wanted??? A lock of his hair!!!!!!????????

I think what he really wanted was to take that damned wig and use it to terrorize the galaxy! ;)

jenks
November 9th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Maybe but I don't think he's that nuts and he wouldn't have been able to cut off his head with just a knife.

He managed it in The Last Man.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 11:23 AM
Sae, you are correct. They did create Michael without regards as to how it would effect the worlds around them. And they why they don't seem to understand that they are responsible for the death on so many, is beyond me. Another thing, why Teyla and Ronon isn't more angry at the people of Atlantis is something else I don't quite get. Regardless, I love SGA and will be sorry to see it end.

The people in Inquistion did hold them responsible for that but they got found not guilty. I know one was due to Woolsey convincing him to do so, but the other one wouldn't have found them not guilty on all charges unless he truly believed they were innocent.

Egle01
November 9th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Wow... just wow! :D So far THE best ep in S5. Tons of action, awesome music really helped. Great moments between Ronon and Woolsey, especially the beginning and the end. Was good to see Teyla and her son. One thing will probably keep bugging me until it happens. One character is going to die, but since we don't know yet who, I hold my breath every time someone gets hurt. Like Ronon, Shep... I was afraid it's gonna be one of them. For a sec I suspected even Teyla to die. Must get it outta my head. :S

Overall, fantastic ep! :D

garhkal
November 9th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Being currently on FEX i was unable to watch this. I will also miss next weeks.. So i will have to wait till they either rerun it or they come out on DVD.

rosey_angel
November 9th, 2008, 03:16 PM
wow great ep! so much was happening, it's great to see that there can be an ep where all of the main characters have wonderful, character building moments, plus including the smaller characters plus the villian, too! seems like Binder has just became my new fave writer! :D

i don't have any problems with this ep, tho as a michael fan i would like to have him come back, prolly would make more sense if he came back as a clone, but for the storyline, his death makes sense. i'm glad it was teyla who killed him.

EdenSG
November 9th, 2008, 03:30 PM
Really great episode.

Excellent writing, acting and directing.

Great balance of action, tension, humor and character moments.

Ingenious use of sets and outstanding musical score.

One of the really neat things about the episode was how we got to see so much of them running around the city. The control room, the jumper bay, the under water jumper bay, the far end of the city – I loved seeing so much of the city.

I thought the conclusion to the Michael arc was well done. I am satisfied that it was Teyla who brought an end to Michael. As a mother I do think her actions were very much justified. Never come between a mother and her baby. She gave Michael her compassion and understanding once and he repaid her by threatening her and her baby on several occasions - and was going to blow her, her baby and Atlantis up - and killed most of the Athosians; she ended his threat for good. I thought the choice of having her kick off his hands one by one made his death very personal for her and considering all they had been through, it made a very powerful impact.

Loved Sheppard!!!!!!!!!!
This episode really showed the many sides of Sheppard and as always Joe F did a great job portraying him. From the “little boy” having fun racing his cars to the military leader and to the willing to self sacrifice hero – it was all well done.

In the midst of the all the action and tension Binder still managed to find some really nice and poignant character moments. Teyla’s look of quiet desperation while hiding with her baby (well acted by RL), the handshake between Rodney & Sheppard as he was going off on the suicide mission, Zalenka & Rodney disagreeing on the term “stun bubble,” Woolsey & Ronon bonding a the end, and the car racing competition between Rodney and Sheppard. Binder really zeroed in on all the little things that make the SGA characters and their interaction so unique and enduring.

This episode will go down as one of my all time favorites

O'Neil
November 9th, 2008, 04:33 PM
I think this episode was pretty good considering that most of the episodes lately have been rather boring.

My initial opinion of the episode was going to be the usual "this sucks", but as soon as I saw Teyla grab Michaels arm, beat him silly, then proceed to kick his hands off the ledge, I dropped what I was eating!

Finally after all this time, someone steps up an takes care of business. I really wasnt a big Teyla fan. I had nothing against the character, but was never really into her, but now she seems to have crossed over the bridge into hurtville, and im glad!

fwupow
November 9th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Teyla is back! (I gave 9 of 10)

Was it just me or has it not seemed that Teyla hasn't had much of a presence on SGA since the whole baby thing.

Getting near to the end of the series makes me worried that the writers are going to kill somebody off. I thought maybe Ronon was going to be SGA's version of Dr. Frasier.

Fast-paced, lot's of action, very entertaining. Everything seemed congruent, natural and in character. The wide variety of camera angles and movement throughout the city was great.

Briangate78
November 9th, 2008, 05:03 PM
He's dead, Joe Mallozi said in his blog they decided it was time to wrap up the Michael storyline for good. Honestly I think they could have just ended it in Search and Rescue with him being killed when the Daedalus destroyed his crusier, but I actually liked it better this way. It was more fitting.

I liked it this way as well. The blowing up of the ship killing the bad guy gets old. This was a classic epic movie type ending, and the right characters were in place for it to work. That scene to me is one of the most epic scenes I've seen in a long time on SGA. This show surprises me with something amazing every new season.

Ruffles
November 9th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Michael didn't have a choice. You all act as if he was human to begin with. He was a wraith and wraith likes being wraith. Therefore you have two choices and that is kill or be killed. It should have been a no brainer that if this didn't work out as planed he should have been killed. I love SGA and SG but one of the main thing that bother me about both is that they never take responsibility for the havoc they cause on the galaxy. As if they can say oops my bad and that makes it alright. And by the way why do they always make Americans bumbling idiots that make a giant mess at everyone else expense and then spend years trying to fix it, just to make another blunder. Since this is Sci-Fi it would be nice if we can at least pretend that we have a conscience when it come to people other than ourselves.

One thing I found very interesting in the episode "Michael" was Teyla stating that the Wraith are evil. I was blown away in First Contact when Todd questioned who the Wraith would be if they were no longer feeding on humans (I found Keller's term of being "at war" equally interesting). In all the time the Wraith have been feeding on humans, they've never thought of them as anything but food, never tried to find another way to survive. Does that make them evil? Maybe.

What we have seen is that Wraith can restrain themselves. In Common Ground, Todd fed off Sheppard because Kolya forced him but stopped himself from killing Sheppard (first during the torture session then later on in the forest). Then he saved Sheppard's life.

I agree that Wraith like being Wraith. However, Michael did not like being Wraith (after we changed him). He experimented on himself so he no longer had the Wraith "weakness" of needing to feed on humans.

To say Michael had no choice is to make him a robot. Michael is anything but. He makes his own choices. He did so when he cloned Carson, when he murdered the people in Vengeance to create his first hybrids, when he took the Athosians, when he forced Carson to help him with the Hoffan plague, when he planted that plague on human worlds, when he kidnapped Teyla. Choices, every single one.

Do I feel sorry for him that his life was ripped away? Yes. Does that give him the right to murder people? No. Never has, never will.

Should he have been killed to begin with? In hindsight that would have been the smart thing to do. However, Carson (who's Scottish BTW, not American) saw him as human, worthy of compassion. His conscience turned out to be the problem.

As far as Americans being portrayed as bumbling idiots, I never saw it that way. First, the expedition is international. Second, not everything they've done has been a mistake. Third, when they have made mistakes, they've tried to clean it up. They woke the Wraith and stayed to fight. They destroyed the Replicators. Now, they've killed Michael. Fourth, the good they do seems to go unnoticed. They answer distress calls (Inferno). They help the sick (Tracker). They take in refugees (Rising). I actually like that the expedition isn't perfect. No one else is either. But I love that what they do is done with the best of intentions.

Pharaoh Atem
November 9th, 2008, 06:44 PM
i can't wait to use screencaps from this ep

drool"

Amalthea
November 9th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Just watched it an loved it! For the first time, I came up with the winning plan of kawooshing the jumper as soon as Michael arrived in it. I think it means I watch too much Stargate more than anything, though. LOL

Anyway, it was a great episode. I'm glad they wrapped up the Michael storyline before the series finished. I feel it was appropriate that Teyla got to finish him off since he has caused her problems. Never mess with a mom! She looked very Xena:Warrior Princess up there smashing his fingers.

The only thing I'm getting tired of is Rodney saying he doesn't have enough time to do something, but then accomplishes most of it anyway. The suspense and miraculousness of that gets killed when it's used too often. Sure, he didn't get the drones working, but he did MacGyver the jumpers together in time. I think at this point it's just nit-picking, though, and shows some weariness on the writer's behalf.

And way to go Amelia! Kick some hybrid butt and (the shipper in me says) win over the heart of Ronon! If only there were more time.

Overall, fantastic! Well done!

Mekarri
November 9th, 2008, 07:36 PM
One thing I found very interesting in the episode "Michael" was Teyla stating that the Wraith are evil. I was blown away in First Contact when Todd questioned who the Wraith would be if they were no longer feeding on humans (I found Keller's term of being "at war" equally interesting). In all the time the Wraith have been feeding on humans, they've never thought of them as anything but food, never tried to find another way to survive. Does that make them evil? Maybe.

What we have seen is that Wraith can restrain themselves. In Common Ground, Todd fed off Sheppard because Kolya forced him but stopped himself from killing Sheppard (first during the torture session then later on in the forest). Then he saved Sheppard's life.

I agree that Wraith like being Wraith. However, Michael did not like being Wraith (after we changed him). He experimented on himself so he no longer had the Wraith "weakness" of needing to feed on humans.

To say Michael had no choice is to make him a robot. Michael is anything but. He makes his own choices. He did so when he cloned Carson, when he murdered the people in Vengeance to create his first hybrids, when he took the Athosians, when he forced Carson to help him with the Hoffan plague, when he planted that plague on human worlds, when he kidnapped Teyla. Choices, every single one.

Do I feel sorry for him that his life was ripped away? Yes. Does that give him the right to murder people? No. Never has, never will.

Should he have been killed to begin with? In hindsight that would have been the smart thing to do. However, Carson (who's Scottish BTW, not American) saw him as human, worthy of compassion. His conscience turned out to be the problem.

As far as Americans being portrayed as bumbling idiots, I never saw it that way. First, the expedition is international. Second, not everything they've done has been a mistake. Third, when they have made mistakes, they've tried to clean it up. They woke the Wraith and stayed to fight. They destroyed the Replicators. Now, they've killed Michael. Fourth, the good they do seems to go unnoticed. They answer distress calls (Inferno). They help the sick (Tracker). They take in refugees (Rising). I actually like that the expedition isn't perfect. No one else is either. But I love that what they do is done with the best of intentions.
I know that everyone in the SGA come from all over the world. I not saying that the people in Atlantis are evil but they are arrogant. But the point I'm trying to get across is that they are responsible for the death of millions, and just because it was a mistake doesn't make all those people any less dead. Michael is crazy and the people of Atlantis created that particular monster. It's just a thought.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:52 PM
Being currently on FEX i was unable to watch this. I will also miss next weeks.. So i will have to wait till they either rerun it or they come out on DVD.

Basicaly Michael invaded Atlantis, his plan failed and he was finally killed by Teyla who threw him off the top of Atlantis' Control Tower.

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:54 PM
Being currently on FEX i was unable to watch this. I will also miss next weeks.. So i will have to wait till they either rerun it or they come out on DVD.

Basicaly Michael invaded Atlantis. His plan failed due to some excellent teamwork between Sheppard, Zelenka and McKay and he was finally killed when Teyla threw him off of Atlantis' Control Tower

Ruffles
November 9th, 2008, 09:56 PM
I know that everyone in the SGA come from all over the world. I not saying that the people in Atlantis are evil but they are arrogant. But the point I'm trying to get across is that they are responsible for the death of millions, and just because it was a mistake doesn't make all those people any less dead. Michael is crazy and the people of Atlantis created that particular monster. It's just a thought.

I did understand your point. We will have to agree to disagree. I don't find Atlantis responsible for Michael's actions. He is responsible for his own.

I appreciate the pleasant discussion. *hug*

WarGrowlmon18
November 9th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Just watched it an loved it! For the first time, I came up with the winning plan of kawooshing the jumper as soon as Michael arrived in it. I think it means I watch too much Stargate more than anything, though. LOL

Anyway, it was a great episode. I'm glad they wrapped up the Michael storyline before the series finished. I feel it was appropriate that Teyla got to finish him off since he has caused her problems. Never mess with a mom! She looked very Xena:Warrior Princess up there smashing his fingers.

The only thing I'm getting tired of is Rodney saying he doesn't have enough time to do something, but then accomplishes most of it anyway. The suspense and miraculousness of that gets killed when it's used too often. Sure, he didn't get the drones working, but he did MacGyver the jumpers together in time. I think at this point it's just nit-picking, though, and shows some weariness on the writer's behalf.

And way to go Amelia! Kick some hybrid butt and (the shipper in me says) win over the heart of Ronon! If only there were more time.

Overall, fantastic! Well done!

I honestly think the whole Rodney has not enough time thing may just be something they throw in to add suspense. We all know he's gonna come up with something. I'm glad they finally wrapped up the Michael storyline too: I wish they'd done the same with Ba'al, let the last of him die in Dominion.

morjana
November 9th, 2008, 10:39 PM
After all the double entendres in Sanctuary's "Nubbins," (which I watched again today) and then watched "The Prodigal" for the third time, and heard this:

McKay: "I must have put too much strain on the motor. The shaft needs a bushing in the lube. What?"

LOL!

nx01a
November 10th, 2008, 08:36 AM
I remember now why I enjoy Atlantis.

The Good:
>Michael and Teyla, standing on the tower, f-i-g-h-t-i-n-g! Teyla is the mom we all dream of, loving and kick butt. She's finally got some time to shine in this episode despite it being an ensemble outing.
>Michael is Todd! He was able to, still unexplained, fly a jumper and now he's converted the cloak into a stun field. I'm impressed. If Michael did that with a few months to work with, we all know the goodness Todd's doing after a few hours with Asgard tech.:D Todd used something similar against the Daedalus bridge, so maybe this whole 'stun field' thing isn't really that original on Michael's part, he just found a way to sustain the effect at a desired radius. Poor Michael, always second to mommy's favourite, Todd.
>Michael's voice! When angry, the flange on his voice was haunting!
>Stun bubble, stun field, force field... :P While I think 'gateship' is a far cooler name than 'puddle jumper', Rodney's got it wrong this time. A 'force field' exerts or resists 'force', so if it's a field that stuns, it's a 'stun' field.
>I KNEW they'd use a kawoosh! to take out the jumper!
>Lorne! Zelenka! Ameila? Sigh, no Marks or Chuck, though. Maybe next time.
>Amelia! A tech who can fight? Unheard of!!!!! Wow, tptb, telegraph THAT ship a bit louder, why don't you.
>Woolsey: "I'll lead." :D Ronon does inspire him... to stupidity.:P YOU hold the baby and let the fighter go first. Of course, plotwise that wouldn't have worked with the stun field, but still...
-Once again, love was the downfall of a villain. Well, obsession and possession moreso than love, but still. Ba'al and now Michael.
-The baby was quite well behaved! Apart from a few squeals to almost alert a guard and to try and protect his mommy from Michael, a very level-headed kid. He must get that from his mother.
-Michael wanted the baby because of the kid's potential to help him mind control hybrids to a greater degree. What does this bode for the kid's ability to manipulate the Wraith? Hmm. Definite Crichton/Aeryn offspring potential here.

The Bad:
-Ronon isn't at least a paraplegic? The way he fell, the crack, he must have had some spinal damage. Instead, he had a concussion. Them Satedans...
-Speaking of them Satedans... This entire season has been filled with "look how many times we've [insert cliche here]" moments, a sure sign of a show in its final season or just getting old. This time around, it was Shep and his suicide missions AND the running joke since season 1, Rodney's ability to fix unfixable problems in under 30 mins. In the same vein, it seems the writers have decided to leave out any possibility of Ronon being seen as anything other than a fighter. How many times has he been up against sealed Atlantis doors, or sealed Daedalus doors, or sealed... And he's illiterate. Aww. Ronon is the straight up 'guy who kills', the Wolverine of the team. Great.
-While the whole 'Teyla finishes what two strapping men started' thing was nice, I was expecting Rodney to fly the jumper up there and bump Michael off.:P Or, at least, appear and startle him, giving whoever was fighting him the advantage. In that way, the whole team would have a part in killing him.
-Didn't Michael have life signs detectors in the jumper or access to sensors in the tower? Obviously not or he would found Teyla.
-And why is all of Atlantis always full of light? I realize the Ancients probably use low watt, eco-friendly bulbs, but powering a city that size must tax the ZPM. People are in all those sections? Geez.
-The central problem with Michael from 'Inquisition' was the lack of a body. Here, we also have the lack of a body, and no mention of one having been retrieved.

The Questions:
-So Michael fell into the sea under the main tower, is that right? Did they recover a body?If his hybrid physiology makes him pull a Ford and survive somehow, nicely in hibernation on a morgue slab, I WILL be annoyed.
>And why would the jumper have to be so close to the gate to activate it? Limited power? It was defying gravity and Rodney had lots of lights on, so I doubt it was that.

The Verdict:
Highly enjoyable episode. A bottle show that reminded of of others I've liked like 'Quarantine' and 'Tabula Rasa'. Teyla gets some much needed screen time and we finally[?] see the end of Michael.

Integrabyte
November 10th, 2008, 10:14 AM
I saw this episode without knowing anything. I wasn’t spoiled and, to be frank, I expected some peasants and pitchforks; the usual SGA recipe. The episode starts with the old married couple playing games. I found this entertaining and funny. Teyla shows up out of nowhere, very, very, very, very far from the tower in a remote area. She talks about Adria, I mean Torren and guess who is coming to dinner? You guessed it? Another episode with Atlantis being infiltrated.
I had both a déja vu and WTF moment but hey, it is the best season ever so I waited for the climax. Michael shows up out of nowhere after being on holiday in the Galapagos Islands. He modifies ancient tech to his whim, knocks everyone out, and gives you the impression that NYSE will crash again with that horrible begging. I was having my fingers crossed hoping Teyla will run away with him. God, I can’t stand her at all lately. She does not contribute to the show. She is there to show off that cleavage. Yes, she had another skimpy outfit ...for the 50th time.
The usual Rodney, Zelenka, Sheppard ménage. It was so bad, I felt sorry for David Nykl. Why do the writers torture him so much?? Chewie gets a few minutes in the spotlight. He takes Mickey mano a mano and falls ....without suffering any significant injuries. John has the bright idea to save the city and everything works superb. Mickey is cornered and tries to run away. The writers knowing their budget is limited and the show is cancelled they finally decide to kill Michael.
Michael and John have a lovely rendezvous and when I start jump like a sissy girl, Shep was about to die, Teyla shows up and kills Michael. She kills him like he was some piece of trash. This came from the woman who cares deeply about life and who took upon herself to protect people. What a load of crap. The body count keeps increasing and nobody will judge them for their actions. I wanted her to slip and fall so she stops torturing me every time she is on screen.
Bottom line, SGA has missed its train and it should RIP!

Heqet
November 10th, 2008, 12:37 PM
I'd love to know why Tayla just clutched her baby to her chest and talked to Michael instead of putting the baby down and kicking the $#@ out of him as she should have. She could've taken him out in five seconds, but no! I don't understand. She had plenty of opportunity to put the baby down and still take Michael out when his back was turned. (sigh)

That was what Micheal wanted her to do. He would have had one of his hybrids grab the child while she was distracted. Even if she had hidden him in the wall, he would have cried and been found.

Lord batchi ball
November 10th, 2008, 01:40 PM
This episode had some classic SGA with some things we have never seen before.

The classic would be the potential destroying of atlantis by that all too easily accessed self destruction device. And the Sheppard that wants to save the day. Rodney always being two steps behind sheppard.

The new would be the uter desperation of the enemy, to the point where he is looking for companion-ship from his prisoner, which speaks to the point at how this is his last chance.
Sheppard giving up the run to Mckay which was noble, even though it wasn't quite the same thing.
Teyla showing some other emotion than mad, she showed both vulerbility and really really pissed
Ronan getting shown up by a girl, and then getting a actual injury where he stays in bed, plus actully following a order by the base commander.

Those are all great things, I also liked the way they edited this, where they showed what happened then showed how it happened.

I like the part where Mckay was treated like a ten year old who forgot to do his chores. That part was really quite funny.

morjana
November 10th, 2008, 04:41 PM
SGA - MGM Stargate: NEW Poll Nov 10 '08:

At MGM Stargate (http://stargate.mgm.com/):

(Please follow the link to respond to the poll.)

STARGATE POLL

Is Michael really dead?

*He’s a goner.

*He’ll be back.

* Undecided.

gatechick
November 10th, 2008, 04:53 PM
I honestly was just dissapointed with this ep. I found it rather dull for the most part. With the exception of Ronon/Michael duel, and Shep/Michael duel, then teyla kicking him of the ledge and Shep not even trying to stop her. I liked the fact that there was no question or Shep trying to stop her. he just let her go. But the in between scenes were just dull. I wish they would do more exploring in the episodes instead of what seems to be always on the base or flying in the air.

Jill_Ion
November 10th, 2008, 05:27 PM
SGA - MGM Stargate: NEW Poll Nov 10 '08:

At MGM Stargate (http://stargate.mgm.com/):

(Please follow the link to respond to the poll.)

STARGATE POLL

Is Michael really dead?

*He’s a goner.

*He’ll be back.

* Undecided.

WARNING: Major spoiler for next week's ep is right above the poll on the MGM site!!!

Jill_Ion
November 10th, 2008, 05:39 PM
I absolutely loved this ep!! :D :D :D

From the car racing bookends to kickass Teyla to the great fights between Michael & Ronon and Michael & Shep, this was a very, very good time!

Great scene with Amelia (kickboxing!), Ronon, and Hybrid Guy. Nice to see another strong woman on Atlantis.

As others have said, it was great seeing so much of the city. This ep helped add to the scope and size of the city.

Shep/McKay banter was top-notch, from the racing putdowns to Shep chastising McKay for not fixing the Jumpers to the 'stun bubble' discussion with Zelenka to the 'suicide missions' scene, it was chock full of friendly goodness! :sheppard: :mckay:

Teyla - looking hot, being a good mom, and kicking Michael's butt (and body) off the ledge. I think she had to do it. Until she kicked the second hand, I thought she might save him, but when she did, and Michael fell to his death(?), I was like, "Wow, that's cold. Go Teyla!"

Michael was crazy. He'd gone totally whacked out crazy. I don't think he really felt anything for Teyla, but was trying to find a way for her to hand over Torren without causing a fuss. Even when Teyla said she'd come out and go with Michael if he'd stop the self-destruct, Michael didn't care if she died. She was a means to an end. He could show "compassion" as long as she did what he said. Because he was all about his crazy self. He wasn't capable of seeing anything outside of his own desires for revenge and power. When one of the Hybrids said that they should cut their losses and go, Michael said no. I said to my hub that Michael was doomed because he wasn't able to see beyond his own original plan. Rigid thinking.

Woolsey was great. Ronon was great. Wonderful to see Lorne (oops, hope his head doesn't hurt!) and Zelenka (stun bubble!).

The fight scenes were very well done. (Kudos BamBam!) I kept saying "Ow!" during all of the fights as our Team got their cute butts kicked.

Great episode. Dammit, only six eps left.

Hmmm...I am wondering where the "Teyla - Judge, Jury, Executioner" thread is for this episode? Not that I would bother reading that tripe. Just wondering.

maxbo
November 10th, 2008, 05:46 PM
My SGA squee is back. It's been missing for so long that I almost didn't recognize the feeling. For the first time in a long time I enjoyed an episode from the beginning to the end.

This is the SGA that I love - a well-balanced storyline that doesn't wallpaper any of the main characters; includes some of the recurring characters; contains action and quiet moments as well as humor and drama.

What did I love? Where do I start? The Ronon and Woolsey scenes were hilarious and on point. Sheppard and Rodney playing with racing cars in the corridors like two little boys, and almost running down Teyla and Torren, was delightful - I didn't know Teyla's voice could go that high. :lol:

When Michael invaded Atlantis, I loved that no one knew what was going on right away and that we got to see so many scenes of Atlantis, and the people of Atlantis, while they tried to solve the problem.

It was good to see Zelenka and Lorne actively involved with the storyline. I've lost count of the number of times I wondered why one or the other wasn't even mentioned in past episodes so it was a pleasure to not wonder about that here.

I also love how Michael was handled. He was shown in all his complexity - as a psycho who was also strangely sympathetic. He had done so much damage, and was planning so much more destruction, that he had to be eliminated, but I also felt sorry for him. His scenes with Teyla were creepy and heartbreaking.

It was also good to see Rodney call Sheppard on his tendency to take on suicide missions and I loved their little handshake. Amelia Banks continues to be a good addition to this season.

The fight scenes were some of the best I've ever seen. The Ronon and Michael fight was so brutal and well choreographed that I thought that would be the fight of the episode and was pleasantly surprised to see that it was only one of them. In addition to that fight, the fight between Sheppard and Michael outside the tower was also amazing.

Teyla finishing off Michael was brutal, coldly efficient and a graphic reminder of the harshness of life in the Pegasus galaxy. When she was standing over him, while he was hanging on that ledge, I wondered if the writers would have the cajones to have her finish the job and was pleased that they did. I've always thought that if Michael was to be killed then it had to be by Teyla's (or Carson's) hand.

There are so many other things I enjoyed about this episode, not the least of which was that it was the first time I'd ever seen so many different shots of Atlantis in one episode. I felt that Atlantis was as much of a character in this episode as its human inhabitants.

Joe Mallozzi mentioned in his blog that he was pleased to see that so many enjoyed The Prodigal and I hope he takes note of this for the movie and use this episode as a blueprint.

Briangate78
November 10th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Joe Mallozzi mentioned in his blog that he was pleased to see that so many enjoyed The Prodigal and I hope he takes note of this for the movie and use this episode as a blueprint.

Aka let Carl Binder perhaps write most of the movie. ;) :p

As per your review, spot on of how I felt. It was very well balanced, and Connor Trinneer was amazing in his last ever role of Michael. Joe M promised emotions, he was dead on with that.

Jill_Ion
November 10th, 2008, 07:39 PM
Aka let Carl Binder perhaps write most of the movie. ;) :p

As per your review, spot on of how I felt. It was very well balanced, and Connor Trinneer was amazing in his last ever role of Michael. Joe M promised emotions, he was dead on with that.

Yes, Connor did a great job. He showed his anger and confusion and all the other thoughts going through his head in a very interesting way.

star47
November 10th, 2008, 07:40 PM
I haven't read all the posts, but saw a few relating to Michael taking a 'trohpy' from Ronan and speculating on exactly what he would have done.

My guess is Michael would have taken off Ronan's head and held it up like he did with the Wraith queen in last year's season ender.

Any other guesses?

My opinion at the time, I may be wrong, is that Michael ws going to cut off some of Ronan's hair for the DNA to make a Ronan clone.

Celesto
November 11th, 2008, 05:49 AM
best episode of the last ones...:). i want those cute cars :D

nx01a
November 11th, 2008, 06:21 AM
My opinion at the time, I may be wrong, is that Michael ws going to cut off some of Ronan's hair for the DNA to make a Ronan clone.I was SO thinking 'lock of hair'! Not for the DNA part, though.:P Another missed opportunity for Jason to lose the hair in-story!:(

Celesto
November 11th, 2008, 12:18 PM
just imagine an army of Ronans ^^. New power in the galaxy :D