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MacGuyverThis
October 29th, 2008, 10:38 AM
Well I know it was a flash back episode ,but shepard seemed a bit arrogant in that episode .I mean he seem like he was saying to these people you should be tahnks us for all our hard work even though we screwed up alot .That coucil did bring up alot of good points .They did wake up the wraith early ,they did create micheal, help make the hothen plage,release the Replicaters,blown up 2 planets ,and other things .It helps when they have all the edge .S.G.C has advance tech they have ships ,The city ship and a way out of the galaxy if things get to rough .

What got me is that Shepard said they should be out there fighting ,when for the last 10,000 years they have been beaten down by the Wraith .The SGC shows up with all this tech of course they can fight .The others can't all they chances have been destroyed by the Wraith .

They just seemed really arrogant in that one .I kind of hope they would be found guilty and have to go it alone .Would make the story more interesting

Well thats just me what do you think?

Lythisrose
October 29th, 2008, 10:57 AM
He seemed more offended than arrogant.
And I'd be pissed (USA definition) too, if a bunch of ill-informed people kidnapped me and my team and put us on trial.
One of the judges was biased beyond redemption, the other corrupt, what kind of proceding is that?
When terrorists kidnap westerners, hold them hostage, put them on mock-trial on the internet for perceived injustices and then behead them, is that something you feel is acceptable? How is that different than what these guys did?
Did those judges and their coalition ever think to just invite representative from Atlantis in for a discussion on what they were doing, what their plans were and how the Pegasus natives could have some say in the matter? No they just went off and hijacked the team without even understanding part of the big picture. The IOA would have been more than willing to talk, that's what they like to do.

mommygonenuts
October 29th, 2008, 01:49 PM
I kinda agree with a lot of what the judges were saying. Yes, the woman was biased and should not have been passing judgement since she couldn't be objective, but she did have a reason to be angry with them. The SGA crew have a bad habit of not thinking things thru and then they blow up in their faces. ( like reactivating the replicators) They mean well but sometimes it doesn't really matter.

Morrolan
October 29th, 2008, 03:21 PM
No, Sheppard was quite humble. The expedition has done more for the Pegasus galaxy than the Ancients in their later years. The Atlantis group has battled the Wraith to a virtual standstill. While culling still takes place, it isn't the wide scale effort it was 10,000 years ago. Mistake have been made, but it was always for the greater good. If anything, the little band of farmers calling themselves a coalition was the arrogant group.

rarocks24
October 30th, 2008, 08:28 AM
I kinda agree with a lot of what the judges were saying. Yes, the woman was biased and should not have been passing judgement since she couldn't be objective, but she did have a reason to be angry with them. The SGA crew have a bad habit of not thinking things thru and then they blow up in their faces. ( like reactivating the replicators) They mean well but sometimes it doesn't really matter.

To be fair, we reactivated the Asurans to fight the Wraith. We merely let the thing off the leash the Wraith put on them. And we have no idea if they wouldn't have attacked human worlds to begin with. They were building up a fleet. And very obviously also had a standing fleet before that. It was either try and get their programming focusing on them, or have them go after Earth.

Pajus
October 30th, 2008, 09:44 AM
He seemed more offended than arrogant.
And I'd be pissed (USA definition) too, if a bunch of ill-informed people kidnapped me and my team and put us on trial.
One of the judges was biased beyond redemption, the other corrupt, what kind of proceding is that?
When terrorists kidnap westerners, hold them hostage, put them on mock-trial on the internet for perceived injustices and then behead them, is that something you feel is acceptable? How is that different than what these guys did?
Did those judges and their coalition ever think to just invite representative from Atlantis in for a discussion on what they were doing, what their plans were and how the Pegasus natives could have some say in the matter? No they just went off and hijacked the team without even understanding part of the big picture. The IOA would have been more than willing to talk, that's what they like to do.

But nevertheless, the judges had very good points:

Personally, I'd vote Sheppard guilty on waking the Wraith (but give him a softer punishment, 'cause he can't really be blamed for the Wraith killing people - it's in their nature), but in the whole Michael thing, Sheppard deserves the death sentence for criminal negligence alone.

I'd also vote McKay guilty for unleashing the Replicators (but once again with a softer punishment).

I'd let Ronon and Teyla go - They weren't responsible for the crimes listed by the council

PS: Did you also get the impression that TPTWs have very poor mathematical skills

Jill_Ion
October 30th, 2008, 12:17 PM
But nevertheless, the judges had very good points:

Personally, I'd vote Sheppard guilty on waking the Wraith (but give him a softer punishment, 'cause he can't really be blamed for the Wraith killing people - it's in their nature), but in the whole Michael thing, Sheppard deserves the death sentence for criminal negligence only.

I'd also vote McKay guilty for unleashing the Replicators (but once again with a softer punishment).

I'd let Ronon and Teyla go - They weren't responsible for the crimes listed by the council

PS: Did you also get the impression that TPTWs have very poor mathematical skills

I'd say Beckett is guilty for the Michael thing, not Sheppard. (Yeah, I know. Carson wasn't there.)

jelgate
October 30th, 2008, 02:08 PM
I'd say Beckett is guilty for the Michael thing, not Sheppard. (Yeah, I know. Carson wasn't there.)

I say Weir. She approved the Michael experiments

GoSpikey
October 30th, 2008, 02:37 PM
I'm gonna pretend not having seen the thread title, and the first post, because of all the spelling errors... :S


:P

silvercomet
October 30th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Well I know it was a flash back episode ,but shepard seemed a bit arrogant in that episode.

For me he wasn't arrogant but angry. I can understand that feeling considering the whole circumstances (i.e. kidnapping). And I think after 5 years of fighting and all the losses, there is also a state of exhaustion and the nerves aren't so strong anymore. In addition I'm sure there was also the feeling of guilt. He has already blamed himself fo some actions but didn't want to show this emotion.


What got me is that Shepard said they should be out there fighting ,when for the last 10,000 years they have been beaten down by the Wraith .The SGC shows up with all this tech of course they can fight .The others can't all they chances have been destroyed by the Wraith .

They just seemed really arrogant in that one .I kind of hope they would be found guilty and have to go it alone .Would make the story more interesting

Surely, the people in this galaxy haven't the ability to fight like the people from earth. But look at i.e. Ronon, Teyla, the Travellers. You always can fight in one way or another. IMO it's not arrogant to expect that.

Jill_Ion
October 30th, 2008, 06:43 PM
I say Weir. She approved the Michael experiments

Good point. What Jelgate said. :)

Pajus
October 30th, 2008, 09:35 PM
I'd say Beckett is guilty for the Michael thing, not Sheppard. (Yeah, I know. Carson wasn't there.)


I say Weir. She approved the Michael experiments

Weir approved it, Beckett executed it and some idiot failed to install security measures to prevent Michael from escaping. Criminal negligence to me

A_PophisandhisFran
October 30th, 2008, 10:09 PM
I think the person that would have to be blamed the most is Weir, and for one simple reason: she was in command when all of the worst stuff here went down. Oh, and Rodney is really reckless.

I don't blame Shepherd for wanting to save his people, and he literally had no way of knowing what was going to happen. Hindsight is 20/20.

The worst thing the Atlantis expedition has done is the whole Michael disaster.

Rockhound
October 30th, 2008, 10:15 PM
I'm gonna pretend not having seen the thread title, and the first post, because of all the spelling errors... :S


:P

I was thinking the same thing as I read the first post - almost made me not want to read on.

Khentkawes
October 30th, 2008, 10:31 PM
Well I know it was a flash back episode ,but shepard seemed a bit arrogant in that episode.

Sheppard acting arrogant... and how is that different than any other episode?
Oh, did I say that out loud? ;)

Seriously, though, he's always been pretty cocky. In this episode, he immediately became defensive (and aggressively defensive, if that even makes sense) without thinking through the Coalition's statements. If he had bothered to think about what they were saying, it should have become obvious that their arguments had weight. And that his attitude was not going to help Atlantis make any more friends in the Pegasus Galaxy.


The SGA crew have a bad habit of not thinking things thru and then they blow up in their faces. ( like reactivating the replicators) They mean well but sometimes it doesn't really matter.

:indeed: Ever heard that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

Even if someone means well, they still have to deal with the consequences of their actions. And even people with good intentions should be held responsible for their mistakes.


To be fair, we reactivated the Asurans to fight the Wraith.

And what genius decided that was a good idea? Did the Atlantis expedition read any of the SGC's reports about Replicators? Activating them is pretty much never a good idea.

Granted, the Atlantis expedition thought they could use the Replicators to fight the Wraith. Okay, fine. So they had a plan and thought they could do some good in the galaxy. Talk about the best laid plans of mice and men (and yes, I realize I'm going overboard on the cliches tonight, but seriously they all apply!). It was still an extremely foolish decision, and they should have known better. I say, that was negligence and stupidity.


I say Weir. She approved the Michael experiments

True. Weir approved them (which, to me, always seemed strange for Weir's character). But I think Sheppard had a pretty big role in all decision-making processes at that point. It seems like Weir and Sheppard made that decision together. So I think they should share responsibility. Technically, Carson and everyone who helped with the experiments shares culpability in that case.

Finger13
October 31st, 2008, 01:20 AM
And what genius decided that was a good idea? Did the Atlantis expedition read any of the SGC's reports about Replicators? Activating them is pretty much never a good idea.

Granted, the Atlantis expedition thought they could use the Replicators to fight the Wraith. Okay, fine. So they had a plan and thought they could do some good in the galaxy. Talk about the best laid plans of mice and men (and yes, I realize I'm going overboard on the cliches tonight, but seriously they all apply!). It was still an extremely foolish decision, and they should have known better. I say, that was negligence and stupidity.

It was a split second decision made hastily. They were on Asuras and had already stolen a ZPM, meaning their cover was already being blown. It was a now or never scenario and they took it. They didn't have the option of going back to Atlantis (which was blown to hell and floating aimlessly thanks to Atlantis neutralizing the Asurans for a second time) and discussing it over tea.

Besides, if anything they activated the Asurans in self-defense, and logically assumed that they would solely attack the Wraith.

I'd be pissed too if I was kidnapped by a group of farmers from a handful of insignificant planets that wanted to punish me for taking the fight to the Wraith, EFFECTIVELY.

Like Shepperd said, the Genii plan sucked and would have never worked.