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Nusku
October 26th, 2008, 09:17 AM
Seems like they convienently forgot about these babies. And of course Woolsey opted to not go with Zelenka's modified high power transmitter implant that would reveal the location of the SGA team when he joined them.

:facepalm:

Xaeden
October 26th, 2008, 09:19 AM
It doesn't allow them to track the team from other planets - The range seems to extend only to about a planet's orbit so it wouldn't have helped them in this situation.

jenks
October 26th, 2008, 10:03 AM
Subcutaneous transmitters don't transmit through sub-space, so they'd only be useful if Atlantis found the planet they were hidden on first.

Nusku
October 26th, 2008, 10:06 AM
It doesn't allow them to track the team from other planets - The range seems to extend only to about a planet's orbit so it wouldn't have helped them in this situation.


Subcutaneous transmitters don't transmit through sub-space, so they'd only be useful if Atlantis found the planet they were hidden on first.


And of course Woolsey opted to not go with Zelenka's modified high power transmitter implant that would reveal the location of the SGA team when he joined them.


^
This.

He ripped the design from Todd's, FYI.

jenks
October 26th, 2008, 10:10 AM
When was that mentioned? I'm not calling you a liar I just can't remember...

Gate-builder
October 26th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Should have just used the one they chopped out of Ronon, we saw McKay working with it in Sateda so it still works.

Ruffles
October 26th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Seems like they convienently forgot about these babies. And of course Woolsey opted to not go with Zelenka's modified high power transmitter implant that would reveal the location of the SGA team when he joined them.

:facepalm:

In which ep did Zelenka modify the transmitter? I know Shep or McKay asked Woolsey about a subspace locator beacon and Woolsey said it was Wraith tech and they weren't quite there yet.

What did I miss?

Finger13
October 26th, 2008, 06:22 PM
They specifically said that the Daedalus would have to fly from solar system to solar system in order to find them. Presumably, this means that their transmitters are relatively short range. If we had the means to track people anywhere in the galaxy, then we'd have used it several times by now.

Besides, if we had just shown up and blown the place to hell to get 4 of our people, what message would that have sent?

At least now the Atlantis Expedition has some accountability in Pegasus, and perhaps their contributions will be more appreciated. It was better to win the support of this coalition than to blow its leadership to hell.

Xenocide
October 26th, 2008, 07:30 PM
If the team could be tracked anywhere by these transmitters, why did they have to search for months for Teyla?

Ncc-72452
October 26th, 2008, 07:35 PM
They specifically said that the Daedalus would have to fly from solar system to solar system in order to find them. Presumably, this means that their transmitters are relatively short range. If we had the means to track people anywhere in the galaxy, then we'd have used it several times by now.

Besides, if we had just shown up and blown the place to hell to get 4 of our people, what message would that have sent?

At least now the Atlantis Expedition has some accountability in Pegasus, and perhaps their contributions will be more appreciated. It was better to win the support of this coalition than to blow its leadership to hell.

That we are not to be messed with...

*big militaristic grin*

Finger13
October 26th, 2008, 07:38 PM
That we are not to be messed with...

*big militaristic grin*

I like seeing things go boom too. And I did think that a few nukes here and there might have been deserved.

But it wouldn't have fit with the show's theme lol. Why bother fighting the Wraith if we're going to kill thousands of humans ourselves anyways?

Hermiiod
October 26th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Besides that is such a "Capt Kirk and Spock meet up with the Nazis" sort of thing to do. ;)

Giantevilhead
October 26th, 2008, 11:53 PM
You'd think that with all the knowledge of both the Ancient and Asgard at their disposal, they would have been able to make a subspace tracking device. Even the Goa'uld had hand held communications devices that allowed them to communicate over lightyears. How hard would it have been for them to hide one of those on Woolsey?

Skydiver
October 27th, 2008, 05:25 AM
If the team could be tracked anywhere by these transmitters, why did they have to search for months for Teyla?
because they forgot to say 'todd removed it'

and the script didn't tell them to :)

seriously, convenient plot devices like the transponders often come back to bite the writers in the tushie since tehy often get so many plot devices going on that they forget which is which and forget to include them or account for them

Ncc-72452
October 27th, 2008, 11:42 AM
I like seeing things go boom too. And I did think that a few nukes here and there might have been deserved.

But it wouldn't have fit with the show's theme lol. Why bother fighting the Wraith if we're going to kill thousands of humans ourselves anyways?

It could of fit with the clip theme of the show. Show the five of them getting beamed out of their cell, and then cut to Siege part III and the massive mushroom cloud! :)

Seriously though, I understand what you're saying, and to a certain extend I agree. Still, when any old village can kidnap and put our people on trial, it sets a dangerous precedent. An armed response would show that you leave our people alone because we will defend them.

They kept going on and on about "due process" in that episode, but seriously, where the heck was it on the part of the PG Alliance? There was none, so the appropriate response, IMO, would have been military to show that if you want to arrest our people, you obtain legal right through an extradition treaty. Anything else is called kidnapping, and kidnapping and abduction is dealt with via armed rescue.

freyr's mother
October 27th, 2008, 03:06 PM
At least now the Atlantis Expedition has some accountability in Pegasus, and perhaps their contributions will be more appreciated. It was better to win the support of this coalition than to blow its leadership to hell.

Its too bad none of the remaining episodes look like they'll even acknowledge the existence of the Pegasus coalition.

Oh yeah, i almost forgot. What about the time the SGC lowjacked Nerus in Off the Grid? Why dont they have anything like that?

PantheraLeo
October 28th, 2008, 08:06 AM
Seriously though, I understand what you're saying, and to a certain extend I agree. Still, when any old village can kidnap and put our people on trial, it sets a dangerous precedent. An armed response would show that you leave our people alone because we will defend them.

They kept going on and on about "due process" in that episode, but seriously, where the heck was it on the part of the PG Alliance? There was none, so the appropriate response, IMO, would have been military to show that if you want to arrest our people, you obtain legal right through an extradition treaty. Anything else is called kidnapping, and kidnapping and abduction is dealt with via armed rescue.

you got a good point. At the very least, the Travellers and the Daedalus should have started a planet-to-planet jump looking for them and utilised their spy network. This episode has a lot of holes in it especially when viewed from a diplomatic standing point.

jelgate
October 28th, 2008, 08:09 AM
you got a good point. At the very least, the Travellers and the Daedalus should have started a planet-to-planet jump looking for them and utilised their spy network. This episode has a lot of holes in it especially when viewed from a diplomatic standing point.

That could have taken months or maybe years.

Xaeden
October 28th, 2008, 08:13 AM
you got a good point. At the very least, the Travellers and the Daedalus should have started a planet-to-planet jump looking for them and utilised their spy network. This episode has a lot of holes in it especially when viewed from a diplomatic standing point.

Atlantis doesn't know how to contact the Travelers (their relationship depends on the Travelers contacting them) and the Daedalus has been out of the picture since the damage it took in "The Lost Tribe." Persumably it headed back to Earth for repairs and isn't in the Pegasus galaxy by now.

Ncc-72452
October 28th, 2008, 05:40 PM
That could have taken months or maybe years.

Not necessarily...

In theory, you could go to each of the 50 stargates in the buffer of the gate on the planet where they were abducted and obtain the last 50 addresses in each of those gates. This is a total of 2550 gates. Since radio waves travel through both directions of a wormhole, you could simply dial each of those addresses, listen for the transponder, then move on. Assuming it takes five minutes to dial and listen (I think this is rather generous), you could cover all possible addresses in 8.8 days.

Now, assuming these gates aren't well used, you could try the 10 most recent addresses of each, lowering your number to 500, which could be covered in just 1.7 days. Once you find the planet where their transmitters are broadcasting, send your ship, beam up your crew, nuke the planet, and have a BBQ. :)

Xaeden
October 29th, 2008, 01:24 AM
In theory, you could go to each of the 50 stargates in the buffer of the gate on the planet where they were abducted and obtain the last 50 addresses in each of those gates. This is a total of 2550 gates. Since radio waves travel through both directions of a wormhole, you could simply dial each of those addresses, listen for the transponder, then move on. Assuming it takes five minutes to dial and listen (I think this is rather generous), you could cover all possible addresses in 8.8 days.

That is, of course, assuming they went through only two gates. Had they gone through three, four, or even five, the Atlantis expedition would end up having to explore a very large percentage of the gate network. And that means having to send people to a large chunk of them to check the DHDs and get the last 50 gate addresses. A number of those worlds are bound to be hostile and while it would probably be a safe bet to rule them out, they'd still lose a MALP on each of them. All too quickly they'd run out (they'd probably run out of Earth's supply as well if they did nothing but search those worlds) and overall, it would cut too heavily into normal gate operations for too long a period.

But even if they did only go through two gates, the trial seemed to last less than a day. So unless they were really lucky and unless they escaped on their own, Sheppard and his team would've been on the prison world long before they had time to scan all of those planets, meaning they'd also have to send people to check the DHDs on up to 2550 worlds.

Ncc-72452
October 29th, 2008, 05:01 PM
That is, of course, assuming they went through only two gates. Had they gone through three, four, or even five, the Atlantis expedition would end up having to explore a very large percentage of the gate network. And that means having to send people to a large chunk of them to check the DHDs and get the last 50 gate addresses. A number of those worlds are bound to be hostile and while it would probably be a safe bet to rule them out, they'd still lose a MALP on each of them. All too quickly they'd run out (they'd probably run out of Earth's supply as well if they did nothing but search those worlds) and overall, it would cut too heavily into normal gate operations for too long a period.

But even if they did only go through two gates, the trial seemed to last less than a day. So unless they were really lucky and unless they escaped on their own, Sheppard and his team would've been on the prison world long before they had time to scan all of those planets, meaning they'd also have to send people to check the DHDs on up to 2550 worlds.

True, but I thought that Teyla said that they had taken them through a second gate, so I was just going by what she said, and I was responding to Jelgate's post that it would have taken months or years to find them. That is not necessarily true. Also, once you start with more than two gates, you're bound to hit some overlap, which would decrease your total search.

As for trial length, I was under the impression that it lasted longer. They recessed several times, and I thought that was it for the day or that morning, or whatever. And, if you shortened the dialing time to a minute, which I find far more likely, and use only the last 10 addresses to start with, you could finish in eight hours, which might just be fast enough.

Perhaps I misspoke, but you wouldn't need to send people to 2550 gates, only 50 gates. Each gate would have the last 50 addresses that it had dialed. 50*50 = 2500 + 50 (original gate) = 2550. That's where you get the 2550 addresses to search. This is also assuming that each of the 50 addresses contained in the 51 gates is non-repeating, which I find unlikely given that we're dealing with a coalition of trading partners here. A large portion of the addresses would have to contain people going back and forth for trade.

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2008, 05:35 PM
because they forgot to say 'todd removed it'

and the script didn't tell them to :)

seriously, convenient plot devices like the transponders often come back to bite the writers in the tushie since tehy often get so many plot devices going on that they forget which is which and forget to include them or account for them

Actually, it was Michael who removed Teyla's transmitter.

Xaeden
October 30th, 2008, 10:48 AM
True, but I thought that Teyla said that they had taken them through a second gate, so I was just going by what she said

Her exact wording was; "They took us through more than one gate." Which is was in response to Woolsey stating that they couldn't find them on the first 50 worlds - Before then they had no idea that they had been brought through more than one gate.


Perhaps I misspoke, but you wouldn't need to send people to 2550 gates, only 50 gates. Each gate would have the last 50 addresses that it had dialed. 50*50 = 2500 + 50 (original gate) = 2550. That's where you get the 2550 addresses to search. This is also assuming that each of the 50 addresses contained in the 51 gates is non-repeating, which I find unlikely given that we're dealing with a coalition of trading partners here. A large portion of the addresses would have to contain people going back and forth for trade.

No, you didn't misspeak. I was refering to how many they'd have to go to in order to recover the team from a third gate, if they did indeed go through three or if they went through two and they had time to send the team to the prison world - They'd need to go to the first 50, scan the 2500 that the DHDs there lead them to (assuming there wouldn't be duplicates which there of course would be) and then, if they had no luck, go to all of them in order to get the last 50 addresses from those.

Ncc-72452
October 30th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Her exact wording was; "They took us through more than one gate." Which is was in response to Woolsey stating that they couldn't find them on the first 50 worlds - Before then they had no idea that they had been brought through more than one gate.

Gotcha! Personally, I think it would be a bit paranoid to go through more than one gate, but maybe they were thinking better safe than sorry!


No, you didn't misspeak. I was refering to how many they'd have to go to in order to recover the team from a third gate, if they did indeed go through three or if they went through two and they had time to send the team to the prison world - They'd need to go to the first 50, scan the 2500 that the DHDs there lead them to (assuming there wouldn't be duplicates which there of course would be) and then, if they had no luck, go to all of them in order to get the last 50 addresses from those.

Okay, and yeah, the more gates they would have taken them through, the more difficult it gets to find them. Assuming a worse case scenario of no over lapping addresses, it goes as follows:

1 gate: 50 addresses
2 gates: 2,550 addresses
3 gates: 127,550 addresses
4 gates: 6,377,550 addresses
5 gates: 318,877,550 addresses (possibly more than the total number of gates in the network!)

One thing that has always troubled me about the DHDs is that they are apparently a remarkably advanced computer, able to calculate and send correlative updates, yet they don't log the times of incoming and outgoing wormholes... :confused: If it did, you could easily track them through however many gates they dialed.

MIZA
November 1st, 2008, 10:36 AM
i know where were those ??