PDA

View Full Version : Is The Pegasus Coalition Retarded or Uninformed?



Ripple in Space
October 25th, 2008, 03:26 AM
OK, not discussing Atlantis' actual guilt or innocence here, since it really didn't come down to that in the ep.

If the Coalition needs a military leader, why would the Genii even be a rival to Atlantis? The Genii are relatively primitive even by normal American, non-SciFi standards.

The Genii may have an extensive spy network, but they have NO methods of effectively combating the Wraith on most any level.

Atlantis has technology centuries ahead of the Genii. Even 100% Earth-made technology like F-302s are way beyond anything they have. And Atlantis also has Ancient & Asgard tech like Battle Cruisers which are more powerful than Hive Ships and nearly equal to Auroras.

While the ep did indicate that the Coalition didn't realize this, still, even Puddle Jumpers, which are seen by many, are Centuries ahead of what the Genii could even dream about.

When it comes down to it, the Dark Asgard & Travellers are the only ones even near the Expedition in technological prowess, but even their combined fleets would have trouble matching Earth's.

It's just ridiculous since the Genii aren't even a real military power. Most large scale assaults are space-based, and the Genii don't even have cars, they're using wheel barrels. In terms of the Coalition choosing a military power, Atlantis vs. the Genii is like stacking Great Britain's entire Navy against a lone mentally handicapped quadriplegic man who doesn't even understand the concept of swimming.

COALITION (to the Genii): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

GENII: Duck and hide. We'll send wheel barrels and pistols in a few weeks.
DEATH TOLL: 1,000s, until the Wraith are satisfied.

COALITION (to Atlantis): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

ATLANTIS: We'll have a battle cruiser waiting for the hive in orbit, and jumpers guarding the gate. Medical teams and military platoons will be in the village on standby in case a dart slips through, but not to worry, we'll have 302s inbound to intercept within seconds.
DEATH TOLL: Ideally 0, maybe a handful.

Bobby
October 25th, 2008, 04:05 AM
lol nice wording.

i loved the part about the brittish navy!!!

suppose i should give you a green... btw i do agree with you i was thinking that they may as well just used those villagers in last weeks episode they had pretty effective shotguns which probably werent that much worse than the genii weapons.

Wayston
October 25th, 2008, 04:52 AM
I agree that it could be considered as not very realistic but

1) the Genii seem to have misrepresented their own military capabilities as the coalition did not know about the weakness of the genii nuclear bomb plans

2) the Genii know and accept that they cannot win, their tactic however is to build in strength and make baby steps of progress in plans that last for generations; that is why they were so pissed at atlantis, because they did not like their plans interrupted by a quicker than normal culling

3) most of the coalition members seem to be quite fatalist about the whole culling cycle (they would be great BSG fans I'm sure); it is a stable balance for their galaxy to speak and they view everyone dying due to other causes (like the actions of atlantis) than wraith cullings with as much if not more outrage than had they died by the wraith; such people will have little trouble accepting the genii strategy of laying low and will be more paranoid against other ways of thinking

Brain_Child
October 25th, 2008, 04:53 AM
Totally agree, but then again, their stupidity is the reason they are the ones that get culled and not the residents of Atlantis ;)

You might be able to look that this issue on a number of levels. Perhaps those Genii spies have gone to powerful places and have put suggestions into the highest levels within the Coalition. So really it is just the fruit of a Genii operation.

Or perhaps the Coalition are so very puny that they picked an easy target in Sheppard's team. They just want someone to blame, some revenge, and they were the easy target.

Many possible reasons, but I agree, the Genii are dumbnuts, still inventing things like the chocolate teapot and what have you.

Xaeden
October 25th, 2008, 04:53 AM
It only came down to a question of the Genii or Atlantis for one of them. Everyone else was just interested in enacting their own brand of justice and finding the truth along the way. That one only sided with the Genii originally because the Genii seemingly offered his people military support that they otherwise wouldn't have had. When Atlantis offered their presence instead he properly jumped at the opportunity, only pausing long enough to make sure Woolsey was being sincere. Before then Atlantis had no reason to be as active in his people's protection as the Genii were promising to be (he said himself that he didn't realized Atlantis had those kind of ambitions, which they didn't) and to him Atlantis was some isolated group that they had no contact with anyway.

It was the Genii who were being stupid - They hear about a group of Humans forming a coalition and rather than tell them they need to get Atlantis involved for the betterment of themselves and everyone else, they try to use it to advance their position of power by once again trying to take the lead at any cost. So they apparently came up with this plan to be its military backbone, enlisted one of the councilors, and spread rumors about Atlantis that painted them in a bad light. I thought they moved beyond such stupidity with their change of leader and the incident in "Harmony" was perhaps just an isolated incident perpetrated by an unsanctioned group, but apparently not.

JackHarkness_Hot
October 25th, 2008, 05:57 AM
I can't wait to see the Wraith destroy their puny coalition, hopefully the lady will be the first to die! I want justice just as much as anyone but god, why don't she blame herself for marrying her husband and giving birth to her kids too. What a witch! But the centre guy who say "Not Guilty", hopefully he'll live.

Genii are stupid, and it's no bringer compared to Atlantis who acts now than later.

jenks
October 25th, 2008, 06:20 AM
I think this was more down to ignorance than stupidity. Remember the coalition is getting their information from the Genii, so any power the Genii have (like the plan to nuke Hives while the Wraith were sleeping) will have been exaggerated and the strength of the Atlantis expedition will have been downplayed.

mlarke
October 25th, 2008, 09:34 AM
One thing that I would have liked to see is the Daedalus showing up and beaming out the 3 councilors, then shooting off to Atlantis.

With all of the talk about how strong the Genii are and how the expedition is telling tall tales about their exploits, give those three a little taste of what is possible, but not necessarily always available. On the way maybe swing by an uninhabited planet and show them the mushroom clouds we can make with our nukes.

Then, I don't know, maybe swing by the Genii homeworld, pick Ladon, and see what he has to say about all of this. Being plucked off the toilet and beamed to space could be fairly disheartening to him. Granted, getting him off the toilet without a locator could be a little tough, but hey they all those Asgard goodies on board.

On second thought to do all of that would have needed another forty minutes of flashbacks that people could complain about.

rsanchez
October 25th, 2008, 11:06 AM
I wonder why the Travelers were not mentioned in this episode. They have just as many trading partners as Atlantis, if not more. One of their trading partners must have realized their strength and recommended they join the coalition. The Travelers have more at stake than Atlantis, since Pegasus is their home, and having a coalition would help them in fighting the Wraith and eventually securing a planet as their home.
If the Travelers were part of the coalition, surely they would have so much more influence than the Genii. Who would you respect more, a group of thugs advancing their own agenda against other people's will, or a group of space faring people who are good trading partners and who have ships that have been proven to be capable of challenging replicator ships when they participated in the destruction of Asuras? Plus, if the Travelers did have the influence, of course they would have cast Atlantis in a positive way. The Travelers knew of our technological prowess, our fight against the enemies of the people of Pegasus, and we personally helped the Travelers, most notably with their ancient warship.

Nemises
October 25th, 2008, 11:30 AM
I can't wait to see the Wraith destroy their puny coalition, hopefully the lady will be the first to die! I want justice just as much as anyone but god, why don't she blame herself for marrying her husband and giving birth to her kids too. What a witch! But the centre guy who say "Not Guilty", hopefully he'll live.

Genii are stupid, and it's no bringer compared to Atlantis who acts now than later.

made me laugh :)

but seriously i also wanted to smash her face in.

s09119
October 25th, 2008, 12:19 PM
I wonder why the Travelers were not mentioned in this episode. They have just as many trading partners as Atlantis, if not more. One of their trading partners must have realized their strength and recommended they join the coalition. The Travelers have more at stake than Atlantis, since Pegasus is their home, and having a coalition would help them in fighting the Wraith and eventually securing a planet as their home.
If the Travelers were part of the coalition, surely they would have so much more influence than the Genii. Who would you respect more, a group of thugs advancing their own agenda against other people's will, or a group of space faring people who are good trading partners and who have ships that have been proven to be capable of challenging replicator ships when they participated in the destruction of Asuras? Plus, if the Travelers did have the influence, of course they would have cast Atlantis in a positive way. The Travelers knew of our technological prowess, our fight against the enemies of the people of Pegasus, and we personally helped the Travelers, most notably with their ancient warship.

It's a Coalition of Planets, according to Marks. The Travelers may not have joined because they don't have a homeworld (and thus these primitive people contacting or even knowing about them might be a problem.)

rsanchez
October 25th, 2008, 03:55 PM
I thought the Travelers routinely trade with the people of Pegasus and have several trading partners. I mentioned in my post that one of the trading partners of the Travelers could have referred them to the Coalition so that the Travelers could also be a part of the Coalition. Also, if the Travelers don't maintain contact with the people of Pegasus or don't have planetary bases, they would have no need for stargates, yet they did lose thousands of people and their ancient battleship during the Attero incident.

Giantevilhead
October 25th, 2008, 04:09 PM
The Travelers may trade with other people but they would want to keep their technology secret. Joining or even helping the coalition would only put the Travelers in danger since the more people who know about their ships, the more likely the Wraith will find out.

Xaeden
October 25th, 2008, 05:28 PM
I thought the Travelers routinely trade with the people of Pegasus and have several trading partners. I mentioned in my post that one of the trading partners of the Travelers could have referred them to the Coalition so that the Travelers could also be a part of the Coalition. Also, if the Travelers don't maintain contact with the people of Pegasus or don't have planetary bases, they would have no need for stargates, yet they did lose thousands of people and their ancient battleship during the Attero incident.

In the future that might come to pass, but right now they're extremely small, so it's doubtful the Travelers have taken notice or would've been willing to commit until they were more wide spread, more well established, and more useful.

But anyway, the Travelers don't have plantary bases. The reason they lost thousands of people was because they just happened to decide to try to set up the first settlement in a hundred generations around that time. It was suggested that they might try to make another one, but it's possible that incident and the loss of people/resources might've scared them off from the idea for the time being. Although, regardless, I seriously doubt anyone cares if they have a planet or not. They're a powerful force in the galaxy that is coming around to the idea of fighting the Wraith instead of continuing on down their doomed path. If they turn them away because they live on ships instead of having a base on a planet, it would be so unbelievably beyond idiotic.

Amalthea
October 25th, 2008, 06:27 PM
I think the coalition was taken advantage of by the Genii. The Genii knew that these worlds had been hurt and so they played to their need to make someone pay. There were obviously enough people in this new alliance that wanted blood and were willing to get it from the most convenient source. People seeing revenge rarely look at the long term.

Mister Oragahn
October 25th, 2008, 08:05 PM
OK, not discussing Atlantis' actual guilt or innocence here, since it really didn't come down to that in the ep.

If the Coalition needs a military leader, why would the Genii even be a rival to Atlantis? The Genii are relatively primitive even by normal American, non-SciFi standards.

The Genii may have an extensive spy network, but they have NO methods of effectively combating the Wraith on most any level.

Atlantis has technology centuries ahead of the Genii. Even 100% Earth-made technology like F-302s are way beyond anything they have. And Atlantis also has Ancient & Asgard tech like Battle Cruisers which are more powerful than Hive Ships and nearly equal to Auroras.

While the ep did indicate that the Coalition didn't realize this, still, even Puddle Jumpers, which are seen by many, are Centuries ahead of what the Genii could even dream about.

When it comes down to it, the Dark Asgard & Travellers are the only ones even near the Expedition in technological prowess, but even their combined fleets would have trouble matching Earth's.

It's just ridiculous since the Genii aren't even a real military power. Most large scale assaults are space-based, and the Genii don't even have cars, they're using wheel barrels. In terms of the Coalition choosing a military power, Atlantis vs. the Genii is like stacking Great Britain's entire Navy against a lone mentally handicapped quadriplegic man who doesn't even understand the concept of swimming.

COALITION (to the Genii): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

GENII: Duck and hide. We'll send wheel barrels and pistols in a few weeks.
DEATH TOLL: 1,000s, until the Wraith are satisfied.

COALITION (to Atlantis): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

ATLANTIS: We'll have a battle cruiser waiting for the hive in orbit, and jumpers guarding the gate. Medical teams and military platoons will be in the village on standby in case a dart slips through, but not to worry, we'll have 302s inbound to intercept within seconds.
DEATH TOLL: Ideally 0, maybe a handful.

Sorry, I think you're not watching the same show. Let's see how things would pan out:


COALITION (to Atlantis): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

ATLANTIS: Ah... yes. OK, well, see, we have that battle cruiser right above our heads. Yes, right above us, and we simply cannot afford this city to remain unprotected.
Besides, I'm sure you understand that trips have a substantial cost attached to them. Who's going to refuel the ship? You maybe?
So no, I'm terribly sorry for your people, but you will have to run for the caves.
I'm sure you must have heard about them, right? There must be some near your village. It's logically included in the terraforming template, along with the "universal pine wood", the "exotic two moons" and the "build your European medieval house" sealed kits.

DEATH TOLL: Ideally: anything as long as it doesn't prevent Atlantis' people from sleeping.

Infinite-Possibilities
October 25th, 2008, 09:39 PM
But the Daedalus doesn't spend most of it's time above Atlantis.

Giantevilhead
October 25th, 2008, 09:50 PM
That's true. Half the time the Daedalus isn't even in Pegasus.

GoSpikey
October 26th, 2008, 07:06 AM
made me laugh :)

but seriously i also wanted to smash her face in.

Shouldn't she have tried to run back and save her family?

And die in the process? :P

Betelgeuze
October 26th, 2008, 11:40 AM
Better the devil you know was probably what the Coalition was thinking.
Iquisition revealed that most of the people of Pegasus do not really know much about the Atlantis expedition. The Atlantis Coalition is a super power that suddenly popped up, and that significantly altered the situation in Pegasus. The Coalition worlds know the motives of the movers and shakers native to the Pegasus galaxy, like the Genii. But all they know about Atlantis, is that Atlantis trades with some worlds, and that they fight the Wraith, but the true motives of the Atlantis expedition aren't really clear to them. The ever power hungry Genii took advantage of this by demonizing the Atlantis expedition and exaggerating their own military prowess.

The Coalition got what they wanted. Atlantis will interact more intensively with the people of Pegasus. The Coalition will be kept informed of the motives of the Atlantis expedition, and they have the guarantee that Atlantis won't leave them out to dry when the Wraith turn their full attention on the human worlds.

I have been hoping for more interaction with the Pegasus people since season one, and i find it shame that the basis for this is only laid in the final season.

morrismike
October 26th, 2008, 12:22 PM
It wouldn't do for the entire pegasus galaxy to know we have 3 ships more powerful than anything the galaxy has ever seen and we're not actively exterminating the bad guys we woke up.

rsanchez
October 26th, 2008, 01:42 PM
The entire Pegasus galaxy also knows that there are many more hive ships than three, and in comparison our three ships are downright puny. Sure, Asgard beams can potentially defeat several hive ships before the 304's sustain considerable damage, but the mere size of the hives compared to the 304's won't do much to convince the people of Pegasus that we have the power to destroy the Wraith. If we did try to actively exterminate the Wraith, we would surely lose all our ships.

Betelgeuze
October 26th, 2008, 02:40 PM
The Pegasus people don't know how many ships Earth has. What they do know, is that the Atlantis expedition has more fire power and advanced technology at their disposal than the. The tactics used by the Atlantis expedition have also been reasonably effective, and they appear to be the only ones, other than the Genii who are willing to fight the Wraith.

Earth managed to defeat the Goa'uld, the Replicators and the Ori without a massive offence with space ships. If they want to win the war with the Wraith, they must not depend to much on their ships.

rsanchez
October 26th, 2008, 05:31 PM
Why don't we just analyze those defeats. Earth defeated the Replicators with the ancient superweapon, which we needed the help of Selmak and Ba'al to activate. The Goa'uld were defeated when the bulk of their ships were attacked and taken over by Replicators, and when the Replicators were destroyed, when the Jaffa stood up against the Goa'uld to gain their freedom. The Ori victory is more of an Earth victory in that it was us who found the Ark of Truth, but again in the Pegasus galaxy, the Replicators there were only defeated when a combined force of Pegasus ships attacked Asuras and distracted the Replicators from our real plan. The pattern I'm trying to show is that in no way have our past victories been really our own victories, but the victories of a group which includes Earth and anyone we were willing to ally with. What Earth really needs is a good teammate to fight the Wraith.

EdenSG
October 26th, 2008, 05:48 PM
Just another theory.

Maybe the coalition wasn’t planning on giving or using the Genii for their military force. I sorta had the impression that while the Genii were connected to the coalition, it was rather covertly. And it seemed to be that the one judge was the connection and he was looking to assure his own position of power within the coalition.

I think it is possible that the Genii may have been trying to use the counsel to effect the outcome so they could become the military might in the PG – and whoever controls the military might usually holds the power. I don’t see the Genii working hand in hand with the counsel to rid the PG of Wraith – rather I see the Genii using the counsel to advance their own position in the PG purely for their benefit.

Lythisrose
October 27th, 2008, 08:59 AM
I don't think the Pegasus Coalition understood much at all about how Atlantis works. If they think that removing Shep and his team would somehow disable the entire Atlantis base, they obviously do not see even a partial picture.

Betelgeuze
October 27th, 2008, 01:34 PM
I don't think the Pegasus Coalition understood much at all about how Atlantis works. If they think that removing Shep and his team would somehow disable the entire Atlantis base, they obviously do not see even a partial picture.

Which is why they want Atlantis to interact more closely with them. The trial i think was the only way they could think of to force Atlantis to get more involved. It was a rather risky plan, because it could have backfired.

StarOcean
October 27th, 2008, 05:38 PM
It was the Genii who were being stupid - They hear about a group of Humans forming a coalition and rather than tell them they need to get Atlantis involved for the betterment of themselves and everyone else, they try to use it to advance their position of power by once again trying to take the lead at any cost. So they apparently came up with this plan to be its military backbone, enlisted one of the councilors, and spread rumors about Atlantis that painted them in a bad light.

Maybe the Coalition was formed by the Genii? Secretly, of course.

I think what the Genii are trying to do is ensure they're a power to reckon with in the future. They're pretty sure Atlantis will win against the Wraith, so they're taking this time to build a galactic power presence. Also it'll give them a better bargaining position with Atlantis if they can influence other people. If I thought the Genii had their fellow Pegasus humans welfare in mind, I would say they're also doing this so that not everyone will feel bound to Atlantis through gratitude, savior-worship, or just having better tech. But I don't. :P

Athosian Death facilitator
October 28th, 2008, 05:15 AM
OK, not discussing Atlantis' actual guilt or innocence here, since it really didn't come down to that in the ep.

If the Coalition needs a military leader, why would the Genii even be a rival to Atlantis? The Genii are relatively primitive even by normal American, non-SciFi standards.

The Genii may have an extensive spy network, but they have NO methods of effectively combating the Wraith on most any level.

Atlantis has technology centuries ahead of the Genii. Even 100% Earth-made technology like F-302s are way beyond anything they have. And Atlantis also has Ancient & Asgard tech like Battle Cruisers which are more powerful than Hive Ships and nearly equal to Auroras.

While the ep did indicate that the Coalition didn't realize this, still, even Puddle Jumpers, which are seen by many, are Centuries ahead of what the Genii could even dream about.

When it comes down to it, the Dark Asgard & Travellers are the only ones even near the Expedition in technological prowess, but even their combined fleets would have trouble matching Earth's.

It's just ridiculous since the Genii aren't even a real military power. Most large scale assaults are space-based, and the Genii don't even have cars, they're using wheel barrels. In terms of the Coalition choosing a military power, Atlantis vs. the Genii is like stacking Great Britain's entire Navy against a lone mentally handicapped quadriplegic man who doesn't even understand the concept of swimming.

COALITION (to the Genii): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

GENII: Duck and hide. We'll send wheel barrels and pistols in a few weeks.
DEATH TOLL: 1,000s, until the Wraith are satisfied.

COALITION (to Atlantis): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

ATLANTIS: We'll have a battle cruiser waiting for the hive in orbit, and jumpers guarding the gate. Medical teams and military platoons will be in the village on standby in case a dart slips through, but not to worry, we'll have 302s inbound to intercept within seconds.
DEATH TOLL: Ideally 0, maybe a handful.

I live the idea of the coalition of the willing against the wraith,
and i agree that the genii arent the best option for military strenght however.

We are eliminating the possibility that the genii aren't spying or infiltrating atlantis itself.

Cloaking devices, Ford's actually alive and has been living with them and giving them information.

There are so many possibilities to whats been going on that we dont know about. I LOVE EVERY MOMENT OF STARGATE ATLANTIS.
I WISH IT WASN'T ENDING. WE COULD HAVE THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED.

YutheGreat
October 28th, 2008, 05:50 AM
The Genii I think are trying to rebuild their alliance. Cowen once said that the Genii once led an alliance of humans before they were wiped out by the Wraith. Perhaps the current coallition is the descendants of the original. Most of the coalition would not realize this but most of them will serve as footsoldiers or Slaves (Trio incident) of the Genii military.

Oh by the way the Genii can enact a plan to beat the Wraith. It is an elegant plant. "THey wait until the Wraith go back into hibernation and nuke them." We are forgetting. The Genii are safe from the Wraith. The Wraith already culled their homeworld. So once Atlantis is out of the picture they can wait a few years for the Wraith to go into hibernation. "They can tell their allies we are building nuclear weapons as fast as we can." We already supplied them with C4 in the Siege remember.

Xaeden
October 28th, 2008, 07:08 AM
Oh by the way the Genii can enact a plan to beat the Wraith. It is an elegant plant. "THey wait until the Wraith go back into hibernation and nuke them." We are forgetting. The Genii are safe from the Wraith. The Wraith already culled their homeworld. So once Atlantis is out of the picture they can wait a few years for the Wraith to go into hibernation. "They can tell their allies we are building nuclear weapons as fast as we can." We already supplied them with C4 in the Siege remember.

It'll never work. Too many Hives are inaccessable to them by either being on Spacegate worlds or being too far away from the gate (they don't appear to have vechiles of any kind). That's what Sheppard meant when he said they had no delivery method before Atlantis - They needed their jumpers. Which wouldn't really help in the long run anyway as it would only be a matter of time before they wake up and take precautions to prevent future attacks and/or do everything in their power to try to track down who was doing it. Their plan only would've been successful if they knew where every Hive in the galaxy was and had the resources to hit them all at once.

YutheGreat
October 28th, 2008, 07:18 AM
It'll never work. Too many Hives are inaccessable to them by either being on Spacegate worlds or being too far away from the gate (they don't appear to have vechiles of any kind). That's what Sheppard meant when he said they had no delivery method before Atlantis - They needed their jumpers. Which wouldn't really help in the long run anyway as it would only be a matter of time before they wake up and take precautions to prevent future attacks and/or do everything in their power to try to track down who was doing it. Their plan only would've been successful if they knew where every Hive in the galaxy was and had the resources to hit them all at once.

It was partly a joke. I guess I was too serious when I said it. Why would they choose to wait when they can take the Wraith now.

tricky
October 28th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Admittedly, I did miss part of this episode, so I might be setting myself up a little, but something crossed my mind reading some of the posts here:

Ok, I get that this Coalition is after Atlantis for their alleged crimes against the people of the Pegasas galaxy. Hey, when you think about it, we did sorta do a lot of what they charged us with.

But, I found it more interesting that none of them seemed to mention losing connection to some of their people and the Stargates on their planets! Just a few episodes ago, the Attero device turned every active stargate into a bomb! Since they don't have ships, they probably wouldn't know the full extent of what happened (unlike the Travelers, Atlantis and Wraith), so all they would know is that they can't contact some of the people that they have had contact with.

I mean, given the way Daniel and McKay went on about millions dying while the device was online, are we to believe that only Atlantis and that Traveler colony were effected? I mean, I guess maybe only small, isolated planets could have been affected, but since the people of Pegasas seem to use the gates alot, both for trade and escape from enemies this seems unlikely.

I think,more than placing blame on our heroes, they might have asked about it (although those clips are fresh in our minds, unlike ones from Season 1-4;) )

StarOcean
October 28th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Oh by the way the Genii can enact a plan to beat the Wraith. It is an elegant plant. "THey wait until the Wraith go back into hibernation and nuke them."

I know this was meant to be more of a joke, but I wanted to point something out anyways. :P

Even if that was the plan, then there's the problem that killing a specific Wraith may just wake them all up again. Pretty much repeating Sheppard's awakening of the Wraith.

And what Xaeden said. :)

StarOcean
October 28th, 2008, 02:17 PM
But, I found it more interesting that none of them seemed to mention losing connection to some of their people and the Stargates on their planets! Just a few episodes ago, the Attero device turned every active stargate into a bomb! Since they don't have ships, they probably wouldn't know the full extent of what happened (unlike the Travelers, Atlantis and Wraith), so all they would know is that they can't contact some of the people that they have had contact with.

Maybe word hasn't gotten around yet? Also, if those stargates did blow up, the people affected wouldn't be able to tell anyone because they're either dead or no gate. Likewise, people wouldn't find out if they've died if they can't open a connection to that world to see evidence of destruction. The only people who are in the position to find out something happened are the ones with ships.

But I'm kind of glad they didn't bring it up. I think if they did, I would be pretty pissed off because I'm sure they would downplay it to, "It was an accident, we didn't know that was going to happen." Completely ignoring the astounding logic fail and rationalization that made McKay and Jackson turn it on.

nx01a
October 28th, 2008, 03:07 PM
They're challenged.

Instead of going to Atlantis and laying out their position, asking for assistance and a greater role in helping Pegasus citizens, they did this dumb subterfuge and trial. Like exiling 4 people to a planet would really make that big a dent in the evil Atlantis' plan for galactic anarchy. Honestly, if the people of Pegasus got sick of Atlantis and wanted them gone, good riddance. Move the city back to the MW. It's like Iraq, are they doing more harm than good? Get out now and let the natives go back to the obviously oppressive system they've learned to live with and hope the Wraith are happy to simply have Earth forces gone and not try to reach the MW... or leave and potentially let the Wraith work harder to find a way to MW without any Earth supervision. Tricky, but I say screw the ungrateful peasants. Let em get culled.

I'd rather side with people with the level of technology that Atlantis has than a few megalomaniacal idiots living in caves who can't make an explosive to save their lives, literally. I grant that the members of the Coalition obviously don't sit in on Atlantis' security briefings and were most likely simply going on the destruction they've seen first hand [the asian woman], the information provided second hand [the chubby guy] and the bribes given underhand [the Genii guy]. Trusting the Genii was their first mistake, obviously.

Xaeden
October 28th, 2008, 10:42 PM
Admittedly, I did miss part of this episode, so I might be setting myself up a little, but something crossed my mind reading some of the posts here:

Ok, I get that this Coalition is after Atlantis for their alleged crimes against the people of the Pegasas galaxy. Hey, when you think about it, we did sorta do a lot of what they charged us with.

But, I found it more interesting that none of them seemed to mention losing connection to some of their people and the Stargates on their planets! Just a few episodes ago, the Attero device turned every active stargate into a bomb! Since they don't have ships, they probably wouldn't know the full extent of what happened (unlike the Travelers, Atlantis and Wraith), so all they would know is that they can't contact some of the people that they have had contact with.

I mean, given the way Daniel and McKay went on about millions dying while the device was online, are we to believe that only Atlantis and that Traveler colony were effected? I mean, I guess maybe only small, isolated planets could have been affected, but since the people of Pegasas seem to use the gates alot, both for trade and escape from enemies this seems unlikely.

I think,more than placing blame on our heroes, they might have asked about it (although those clips are fresh in our minds, unlike ones from Season 1-4;) )

Had it not been a trial they might've asked them if they knew anything about it. But they were only going through each charge they had against Atlantis and they had no reason to charge them with the possibility of being involved in the destruction of the gates. With everything else that they brought up they had at least a basic reason to believe Atlantis was at fault, either directly or through proxy. With the replicators, for example, they knew almost as little, but somehow a rumor came about that whoever did it were allies of Atlantis so it got mentioned. Where as with the gates, for all they knew someone took them, possibly even the Wraith, since all they would've known is that they could no longer establish a connection.

rsanchez
October 29th, 2008, 02:15 PM
...had the resources to hit them all at once.
All the baddies we ever defeated went down like this. No tactics involved, just a one-shot weapon to get them all. I bet this is how the Atlantis movie will deal with the Wraith.

tricky
October 30th, 2008, 12:17 PM
All the baddies we ever defeated went down like this. No tactics involved, just a one-shot weapon to get them all. I bet this is how the Atlantis movie will deal with the Wraith.


You know, that's what really makes me mad about going to the movie so early: Things are just getting to a very interesting point: Humans are freer now than they have been in 10,000 years. The Wraith are actually looking at Humans as somewhat equals. There is another race (the Neo-Asgard) that is going to be a new element to the situation (am I the only one that thinks these guys would maybe make a deal with the Genni or maybe Michael in an attempt to get back at Atlantis?). The 6th season would have been some interesting territory, to be sure. Of course, I think that SG should have went a season more, and the season after defeating the Goa'uld should have been one without a big bad, so that when the Ori stuff started, you got more of a feeling of loss.

But now, they are going to have them "finish the Wraith" in a 2 hour movie, probably activating some Ancient device that will 'undo' the Wraith, or with the Keller/Beckett/Hoff drug will be used, ending up with friendlier Hybrid guys.

Xaeden
October 31st, 2008, 02:55 AM
All the baddies we ever defeated went down like this. No tactics involved, just a one-shot weapon to get them all. I bet this is how the Atlantis movie will deal with the Wraith.

With it now being in movie format, sadly, that may be all too true. I had been hoping that they were leading up to a more drawn out end to the Wraith by having them build up their resources, collect allies, and weaken the Wraith bit by bit before finally going on an offensive. There was a lot of potential for that, especially with some recent developments...

There's now three known ship capable races that hate the Wraith. One is currently less than friendly, but has the enemy of my enemy thing going for them which could be useful in the long run even if they have scrapes with Atlantis in the short term. The other, meanwhile, has expressed interest in working with Atlantis against the Wraith and is currently on good terms with them. Additionally, a coalition is forming which has a lot of potential in and of itself - With Atlantis being a part of it and with its eventual growth it can very well lure more technologically capable races out of hiding (which were likely to pop up in a season 6 one way or another after the two vague references this season). As long as they're around or above the Genii/Satedan level, they'd prove useful as defeating the Wraith won't all be about ship battles and Earth doesn't enough soldiers to go all out against ground targets. In addition to soldiers, all they'd need then is to somehow find someone who has lots of fighter type crafts (or help someone develop their own) which can fit through the Stargate and they'll be able to do a fair amount of damage as a result.

Meanwhile, there's a lot of resources waiting to be found/waiting to be put to use. The Wraith Cruiser would be helpful, the Tria (once fixed) would be now more than ever since the Traveller's ship is gone, any darts they have/recover in the future would be, and then there's more drones to be found, ZPMs, jumpers, etc. Which they still had time to work on while the Wraith rounded out their civil war. Once it is about over would be the perfect time for an attack as they will be at their weakest.

But, even if it was something like the defeat of the Goa'uld, I'd be happy. Although they fell out of power over night, it felt like more of a process - Earth allied themselves with the Tok'ra, the Asgard, and they helped establish a rebellion of free Jaffa. Meanwhile gathering knowledge and technology that helped them every step of the way. Although, in the end, the replicators were what did the Goa'uld in, the Jaffa fleet played an important role and as did every battle that came before then (Earth was actually actively going after the Goa'uld where as Atlantis tries to avoid the Wraith and generally only deals with them when the Wraith brings the fight to them).

Ripple in Space
October 31st, 2008, 09:02 AM
With it now being in movie format, sadly, that may be all too true. I had been hoping that they were leading up to a more drawn out end to the Wraith by having them build up their resources, collect allies, and weaken the Wraith bit by bit before finally going on an offensive. There was a lot of potential for that, especially with some recent developments...

It takes them a few days to grow Warships, the Tau'ri are decades off from having sufficient resources to destroy them fast enough.

Xaeden
October 31st, 2008, 11:32 AM
It takes them a few days to grow Warships, the Tau'ri are decades off from having sufficient resources to destroy them fast enough.

I was refering to actions like activing the replicator attack code, playing them against each other in their civil war, the Hoffman's drug, the Attero device, etc. Those things did/will continue to do (in some cases) a lot of damage to the Wraith which they can't recover from any time soon since they don't have a large enough food supply for their population to grow large enough to man lots of new ships. As it stands there's still more damage that can be done to them before their population is no longer too big for their food supply. Only then does their recovery rate come into play and how quickly they can recover from a massive offensive depends, not just on their ship building rate, but on how quickly they can produce offspring. Which is unclear to us at the moment (females grow slowly, males are anyone's guess, and we don't know how much genetic material a queen can secrete at a time for drones).

Emerald01
October 31st, 2008, 05:21 PM
My bit.

1. At the very least, the center judge had a brain in his head. Why on ...whatever planet they were on... would they let someone who is so obviously biased and out for blood be one of only three people on their little jury?

2. "The Lanteans aren't here. You are." What kind of reasoning is that? Crucify the last person who happened to talk to a murderer? Or who unknowingly let them pass by?

3. If this coalition is going to grow, people are going to know who they are. There is NO way that the people on Atlantis wouldn't go after the people and get Sheppard and the team back.

Cheers!
Em

RedWolf
November 4th, 2008, 04:20 AM
3. If this coalition is going to grow, people are going to know who they are. There is NO way that the people on Atlantis wouldn't go after the people and get Sheppard and the team back.

Cheers!
Em

Well given the clip with the Genii I don't think these guys believe that Atlantis has ships.

Just puddlejumpers.

Are they even aware that the Atlantis expedition are extragalactic?

Those concepts may be too big for them.

Ripple in Space
November 4th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Well given the clip with the Genii I don't think these guys believe that Atlantis has ships.

Just puddlejumpers.

Are they even aware that the Atlantis expedition are extragalactic?

Those concepts may be too big for them.

That clip was from their first encounter. I'm pretty sure that at least the Genii have a rough idea that Atlantis is more powerful than any humans they'd ever seen.

And even jumpers are centuries ahead of what these guys have. Pegasus doesn't even have cars, much less planes. Jumpers are more advanced than 304s & darts.

atlantis26
November 6th, 2008, 07:35 PM
i think its uninformed and kinda retarted,never put a conciler that only sides one side

Lord batchi ball
November 10th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Well they don't understand advanced tech= un-educationable, and they are un-informed and miss-informed so that can lead to a pretty messed up group.

michellec24_7
November 15th, 2008, 03:48 PM
I think you've hit the nail on the head there! The Coallition obviously have no idea of the extent of the Travellers technology or they would have asked them to join them. So therefore probably wouldn't have much of a clue about Atlantis's technology either so it was easy for them to be duped.... kinda feel a little sorry for them, they have no idea whats going on half the time!

Matt G
November 16th, 2008, 02:52 PM
The Genii know that Atlantis are from another galaxy, whether they've told the coalition that or not I don't know.