Is The Pegasus Coalition Retarded or Uninformed?

[Ripple in Space]

OK, not discussing Atlantis' actual guilt or innocence here, since it really didn't come down to that in the ep.

If the Coalition needs a military leader, why would the Genii even be a rival to Atlantis? The Genii are relatively primitive even by normal American, non-SciFi standards.

The Genii may have an extensive spy network, but they have NO methods of effectively combating the Wraith on most any level.

Atlantis has technology centuries ahead of the Genii. Even 100% Earth-made technology like F-302s are way beyond anything they have. And Atlantis also has Ancient & Asgard tech like Battle Cruisers which are more powerful than Hive Ships and nearly equal to Auroras.

While the ep did indicate that the Coalition didn't realize this, still, even Puddle Jumpers, which are seen by many, are Centuries ahead of what the Genii could even dream about.

When it comes down to it, the Dark Asgard & Travellers are the only ones even near the Expedition in technological prowess, but even their combined fleets would have trouble matching Earth's.

It's just ridiculous since the Genii aren't even a real military power. Most large scale assaults are space-based, and the Genii don't even have cars, they're using wheel barrels. In terms of the Coalition choosing a military power, Atlantis vs. the Genii is like stacking Great Britain's entire Navy against a lone mentally handicapped quadriplegic man who doesn't even understand the concept of swimming.

COALITION (to the Genii): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

GENII: Duck and hide. We'll send wheel barrels and pistols in a few weeks.
DEATH TOLL: 1,000s, until the Wraith are satisfied.

COALITION (to Atlantis): We have word that a culling is imminent on one of our worlds.

ATLANTIS: We'll have a battle cruiser waiting for the hive in orbit, and jumpers guarding the gate. Medical teams and military platoons will be in the village on standby in case a dart slips through, but not to worry, we'll have 302s inbound to intercept within seconds.
DEATH TOLL: Ideally 0, maybe a handful.

[Bobby]

lol nice wording.

i loved the part about the brittish navy!!!

suppose i should give you a green... btw i do agree with you i was thinking that they may as well just used those villagers in last weeks episode they had pretty effective shotguns which probably werent that much worse than the genii weapons.

[Wayston]

I agree that it could be considered as not very realistic but

1) the Genii seem to have misrepresented their own military capabilities as the coalition did not know about the weakness of the genii nuclear bomb plans

2) the Genii know and accept that they cannot win, their tactic however is to build in strength and make baby steps of progress in plans that last for generations; that is why they were so pissed at atlantis, because they did not like their plans interrupted by a quicker than normal culling

3) most of the coalition members seem to be quite fatalist about the whole culling cycle (they would be great BSG fans I'm sure); it is a stable balance for their galaxy to speak and they view everyone dying due to other causes (like the actions of atlantis) than wraith cullings with as much if not more outrage than had they died by the wraith; such people will have little trouble accepting the genii strategy of laying low and will be more paranoid against other ways of thinking

[Brain_Child]

Totally agree, but then again, their stupidity is the reason they are the ones that get culled and not the residents of Atlantis

You might be able to look that this issue on a number of levels. Perhaps those Genii spies have gone to powerful places and have put suggestions into the highest levels within the Coalition. So really it is just the fruit of a Genii operation.

Or perhaps the Coalition are so very puny that they picked an easy target in Sheppard's team. They just want someone to blame, some revenge, and they were the easy target.

Many possible reasons, but I agree, the Genii are dumbnuts, still inventing things like the chocolate teapot and what have you.

[Xaeden]

It only came down to a question of the Genii or Atlantis for one of them. Everyone else was just interested in enacting their own brand of justice and finding the truth along the way. That one only sided with the Genii originally because the Genii seemingly offered his people military support that they otherwise wouldn't have had. When Atlantis offered their presence instead he properly jumped at the opportunity, only pausing long enough to make sure Woolsey was being sincere. Before then Atlantis had no reason to be as active in his people's protection as the Genii were promising to be (he said himself that he didn't realized Atlantis had those kind of ambitions, which they didn't) and to him Atlantis was some isolated group that they had no contact with anyway.

It was the Genii who were being stupid - They hear about a group of Humans forming a coalition and rather than tell them they need to get Atlantis involved for the betterment of themselves and everyone else, they try to use it to advance their position of power by once again trying to take the lead at any cost. So they apparently came up with this plan to be its military backbone, enlisted one of the councilors, and spread rumors about Atlantis that painted them in a bad light. I thought they moved beyond such stupidity with their change of leader and the incident in "Harmony" was perhaps just an isolated incident perpetrated by an unsanctioned group, but apparently not.

[JackHarkness_Hot]

I can't wait to see the Wraith destroy their puny coalition, hopefully the lady will be the first to die! I want justice just as much as anyone but god, why don't she blame herself for marrying her husband and giving birth to her kids too. What a witch! But the centre guy who say "Not Guilty", hopefully he'll live.

Genii are stupid, and it's no bringer compared to Atlantis who acts now than later.

[jenks]

I think this was more down to ignorance than stupidity. Remember the coalition is getting their information from the Genii, so any power the Genii have (like the plan to nuke Hives while the Wraith were sleeping) will have been exaggerated and the strength of the Atlantis expedition will have been downplayed.

[mlarke]

One thing that I would have liked to see is the Daedalus showing up and beaming out the 3 councilors, then shooting off to Atlantis.

With all of the talk about how strong the Genii are and how the expedition is telling tall tales about their exploits, give those three a little taste of what is possible, but not necessarily always available. On the way maybe swing by an uninhabited planet and show them the mushroom clouds we can make with our nukes.

Then, I don't know, maybe swing by the Genii homeworld, pick Ladon, and see what he has to say about all of this. Being plucked off the toilet and beamed to space could be fairly disheartening to him. Granted, getting him off the toilet without a locator could be a little tough, but hey they all those Asgard goodies on board.

On second thought to do all of that would have needed another forty minutes of flashbacks that people could complain about.

[rsanchez]

I wonder why the Travelers were not mentioned in this episode. They have just as many trading partners as Atlantis, if not more. One of their trading partners must have realized their strength and recommended they join the coalition. The Travelers have more at stake than Atlantis, since Pegasus is their home, and having a coalition would help them in fighting the Wraith and eventually securing a planet as their home.
If the Travelers were part of the coalition, surely they would have so much more influence than the Genii. Who would you respect more, a group of thugs advancing their own agenda against other people's will, or a group of space faring people who are good trading partners and who have ships that have been proven to be capable of challenging replicator ships when they participated in the destruction of Asuras? Plus, if the Travelers did have the influence, of course they would have cast Atlantis in a positive way. The Travelers knew of our technological prowess, our fight against the enemies of the people of Pegasus, and we personally helped the Travelers, most notably with their ancient warship.

[Nemises]

I can't wait to see the Wraith destroy their puny coalition, hopefully the lady will be the first to die! I want justice just as much as anyone but god, why don't she blame herself for marrying her husband and giving birth to her kids too. What a witch! But the centre guy who say "Not Guilty", hopefully he'll live.

Genii are stupid, and it's no bringer compared to Atlantis who acts now than later.

made me laugh

but seriously i also wanted to smash her face in.

[s09119]

I wonder why the Travelers were not mentioned in this episode. They have just as many trading partners as Atlantis, if not more. One of their trading partners must have realized their strength and recommended they join the coalition. The Travelers have more at stake than Atlantis, since Pegasus is their home, and having a coalition would help them in fighting the Wraith and eventually securing a planet as their home.
If the Travelers were part of the coalition, surely they would have so much more influence than the Genii. Who would you respect more, a group of thugs advancing their own agenda against other people's will, or a group of space faring people who are good trading partners and who have ships that have been proven to be capable of challenging replicator ships when they participated in the destruction of Asuras? Plus, if the Travelers did have the influence, of course they would have cast Atlantis in a positive way. The Travelers knew of our technological prowess, our fight against the enemies of the people of Pegasus, and we personally helped the Travelers, most notably with their ancient warship.

It's a Coalition of Planets, according to Marks. The Travelers may not have joined because they don't have a homeworld (and thus these primitive people contacting or even knowing about them might be a problem.)

[rsanchez]

I thought the Travelers routinely trade with the people of Pegasus and have several trading partners. I mentioned in my post that one of the trading partners of the Travelers could have referred them to the Coalition so that the Travelers could also be a part of the Coalition. Also, if the Travelers don't maintain contact with the people of Pegasus or don't have planetary bases, they would have no need for stargates, yet they did lose thousands of people and their ancient battleship during the Attero incident.

[Giantevilhead]

The Travelers may trade with other people but they would want to keep their technology secret. Joining or even helping the coalition would only put the Travelers in danger since the more people who know about their ships, the more likely the Wraith will find out.

[Xaeden]

I thought the Travelers routinely trade with the people of Pegasus and have several trading partners. I mentioned in my post that one of the trading partners of the Travelers could have referred them to the Coalition so that the Travelers could also be a part of the Coalition. Also, if the Travelers don't maintain contact with the people of Pegasus or don't have planetary bases, they would have no need for stargates, yet they did lose thousands of people and their ancient battleship during the Attero incident.

In the future that might come to pass, but right now they're extremely small, so it's doubtful the Travelers have taken notice or would've been willing to commit until they were more wide spread, more well established, and more useful.

But anyway, the Travelers don't have plantary bases. The reason they lost thousands of people was because they just happened to decide to try to set up the first settlement in a hundred generations around that time. It was suggested that they might try to make another one, but it's possible that incident and the loss of people/resources might've scared them off from the idea for the time being. Although, regardless, I seriously doubt anyone cares if they have a planet or not. They're a powerful force in the galaxy that is coming around to the idea of fighting the Wraith instead of continuing on down their doomed path. If they turn them away because they live on ships instead of having a base on a planet, it would be so unbelievably beyond idiotic.

[Amalthea]

I think the coalition was taken advantage of by the Genii. The Genii knew that these worlds had been hurt and so they played to their need to make someone pay. There were obviously enough people in this new alliance that wanted blood and were willing to get it from the most convenient source. People seeing revenge rarely look at the long term.