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Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 09:27 PM
There is no doubt that the sense of fear towards the Wraith and basically any enemy that approaches the Expedition members, is gone!

So i say to TPTB, KILL A REGULAR CHARACTER (for good :P). Dont kill a redshirt, that does nothing, dont kill a reaccuring, like Heightmeyer, cos it doesn;t leave a long lasting effect, KILL Sheppard, KILL McKay, KILL Teyla, or even KILL Ronin, that would create fear, he is the toughest man apparently.

When the Wraith stun someone these days, it's:
hmmm lets put them in a cell, let them break out and destroy a Hive and escape as easy as you like!

This diminishes an enemy and the show.

I say again:
KILL SOMEONE!

fumblesmcstupid
October 21st, 2008, 09:28 PM
Rumor has that they are! :(

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 09:29 PM
...Ford....I am just saying.
And technically Becket. The new guy is a clone after all. :P

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 09:31 PM
...Ford....I am just saying.
And technically Becket. The new guy is a clone after all. :P

Ford was 4 years ago and technically we dont know if he is dead or not...

And Beckett was just killed by some tumour (still can;t believe that), my point is, have the enemy kill someone, to prove to the audience they are not incompetent fools, but rather a threat.

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 09:31 PM
Rumor has that they are! :(

Source?

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 09:32 PM
Ford was 4 years ago and technically we dont know if he is dead or not...

And Beckett was just killed by some tumour (still can;t believe that), my point is, have the enemy kill someone, to prove to the audience they are not incompetent fools, but rather a threat.
Yeah...I agree with you that done right it could be awesome...(Daniel, Fraisier.)
But, this is Stargate, at least in a sense, not Babylon 5. I hate using that argument for this, but there you have it...or this is not 24. Jack. :P

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 09:39 PM
I hate using that argument for this, but there you have it...or this is not 24. Jack. :P

LOL someone had to say it :D

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 09:40 PM
LOL someone had to say it :D
:lol:
Well...they also did in Weir apparently, and that was quite powerful, although that also sucked royally how they did it in the end.
But you know, there is a huge coaltion of people on GW that do not like the "Constant cast changes"
If you killed another character it would drive them up a wall.

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 09:44 PM
:lol:
Well...they also did in Weir apparently, and that was quite powerful, although that also sucked royally how they did it in the end.
But you know, there is a huge coaltion of people on GW that do not like the "Constant cast changes"
If you killed another character it would drive them up a wall.

But again, Weir was like a second rate death (?). TPTB couldn;t and still can;t make a definite decision over what they want to do with the cast. However, I just feel that the way they right their enemies these days just makes it necessary to kill someone in order to remind us of their power, especially in terms of the Wraith. In hindsight, a death on the Ori arc would have helped, Carter in that episode where she was injured greatly (not that i have anything against Carter, love her character).

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 09:47 PM
But again, Weir was like a second rate death (?). TPTB couldn;t and still can;t make a definite decision over what they want to do with the cast. However, I just feel that the way they right their enemies these days just makes it necessary to kill someone in order to remind us of their power, especially in terms of the Wraith. In hindsight, a death on the Ori arc would have helped, Carter in that episode where she was injured greatly (not that i have anything against Carter, love her character).
Well yeah. I mean there is the thing. You want to see blood and guts and gore to remind us of someones nastyness but when it gets down to doing it, people whine. They have in the case of Ford, Heightmeyer, and Weir. Especially in Weir's case it seems. For what ever reason.
And also in 24 (poor Curtis NOOOOOOO! Tony! How dare they?! :mad:)
And I do not know of how much of the Unit you watch, but there is a good example there.

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 09:51 PM
Well yeah. I mean there is the thing. You want to see blood and guts and gore to remind us of someones nastyness but when it gets down to doing it, people whine. They have in the case of Ford, Heightmeyer, and Weir. Especially in Weir's case it seems. For what ever reason.
And also in 24 (poor Curtis NOOOOOOO! Tony! How dare they?! :mad:)
And I do not know of how much of the Unit you watch, but there is a good example there.

Well people may consider me starting this thread whining about the writers, and it is i guess, but i believe i have good cause. I don't neccessarily want blood and guts, just death lol.

I thought Curtis' death sucked, hard. It took me a couple of eps to realise he was actually dead and not just wounded. However David Palmer's death and Milo's death were fantastic, shot to the head, no second guessing about it. Would have sucked in real life but for me, it made great TV.

BTW spoilers for S7 of 24:
Tony is coming back :P.... seriously!\

I do watch a bit of the Unit every now and then, but its on pretty late over here in Aus.

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 09:53 PM
Well people may consider me starting this thread whining about the writers, and it is i guess, but i believe i have good cause. I don't neccessarily want blood and guts, just death lol.

I thought Curtis' death sucked, hard. It took me a couple of eps to realise he was actually dead and not just wounded. However David Palmer's death and Milo's death were fantastic, shot to the head, no second guessing about it. Would have sucked in real life but for me, it made great TV.

BTW spoilers for S7 of 24:
Tony is coming back :P.... seriously!\

I do watch a bit of the Unit every now and then, but its on pretty late over here in Aus.I know about that spoiler, grr...oh how will they pull it off...loved season five though. And, I just thought Curtis's sucked, and Tonies...and I really liked Tony!
Milo? Sorry, only seen 4,5, and parts of the rest.
And Henderson I liked how HE died. Same with Nina.
About the Unit...have you seen the episode Five Brothers?

Silverwings
October 21st, 2008, 09:59 PM
If I want "realistic" war stories, I'm not going to go to Stargate for them. That's never been the core of the show. It's semi-plausible at best, not realistic. It's good, clean fun, and there's little enough of that as it is. If I want characters dying to give the show a sense of danger, I'll watch Lost.

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 10:00 PM
If I want "realistic" war stories, I'm not going to go to Stargate for them. That's never been the core of the show. It's semi-plausible at best, not realistic. It's good, clean fun, and there's little enough of that as it is. If I want characters dying to give the show a sense of danger, I'll watch Lost.
...or 24.
And in general I do agree with you. I mean, as much as it would add to the realism, I do not want to see it, at all.

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 10:04 PM
If I want "realistic" war stories, I'm not going to go to Stargate for them. That's never been the core of the show. It's semi-plausible at best, not realistic. It's good, clean fun, and there's little enough of that as it is. If I want characters dying to give the show a sense of danger, I'll watch Lost.

Good, clean, fun? What show haveyou been watching? In the first episode of SG1, Sha're had her clothes ripped off her and implanted with a Goa'uld. In the next episode we saw Kawalsky get killed because of the Larval Goa'uld in his head, by having the back of his head cut off from the Event Horizon. Further down the track we see Daniel killed by radiation poisoning and Jack murdered and revived over and over again by Ba'al, and this is only a few examples which have springed to mind so far...

@Col.Foley, nah i havn't seen Five Brothers but i just read the wikipedia summary of it and sounds interesting!

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 10:06 PM
Good, clean, fun? What show haveyou been watching? In the first episode of SG1, Sha're had her clothes ripped off her and implanted with a Goa'uld. In the next episode we saw Kawalsky get killed because of the Larval Goa'uld in his head, by having the back of his head cut off from the Event Horizon. Further down the track we see Daniel killed by radiation poisoning and Jack murdered and revived over and over again by Ba'al, and this is only a few examples which have springed to mind so far...

@Col.Foley, nah i havn't seen Five Brothers but i just read the wikipedia summary of it and sounds interesting!Best Episode of the series. And one of my favorite hours of TV ever. I loved it, despite what happened.
You bring up a terrible point though about SG-1, I think Check and mate. Oh well.

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 10:09 PM
Best Episode of the series. And one of my favorite hours of TV ever. I loved it, despite what happened.
You bring up a terrible point though about SG-1, I think Check and mate. Oh well.

lol now i want to see it! It is a good show, the Unit, especially with DH and that bloke that played Sumner in Rising.

i dunno if it was a terrible aspect of SG1 which i brought up, I think it shows the balance TPTB used to be able to implement in their shows. While there were the aspects i spoke of, there was a lot of light humour and moral discussion which was uplifitng.

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 10:12 PM
lol now i want to see it! It is a good show, the Unit, especially with DH and that bloke that played Sumner in Rising.

i dunno if it was a terrible aspect of SG1 which i brought up, I think it shows the balance TPTB used to be able to implement in their shows. While there were the aspects i spoke of, there was a lot of light humour and moral discussion which was uplifitng.
Yeah, they are good. My fav character is the guy played by Scott Foley.
Not terrible as in bad...terrible as in...well....I don't know really...but it is not a bad thing. Just that most people, me included, consider SG- to be a pure, sometimes swashbuckling, sometimes, old fashioned space adventure, that brings up moral dilenmas on the way through the universe.

Jack_Bauer
October 21st, 2008, 10:15 PM
Yeah, they are good. My fav character is the guy played by Scott Foley.
Not terrible as in bad...terrible as in...well....I don't know really...but it is not a bad thing. Just that most people, me included, consider SG- to be a pure, sometimes swashbuckling, sometimes, old fashioned space adventure, that brings up moral dilenmas on the way through the universe.

I know what you mean, and your right, overall SG1 was all that, but in the early years it really kept that realism. Heroes PArts 1 nd 2 spring to mind. A lot of people really hate that epi for a number of reasons, the death of Frasier one of them, but i loved it, i thought it was realistic and really gave the audience a sense of perspective about what the life of an SGC officer would be like.

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 10:32 PM
I know what you mean, and your right, overall SG1 was all that, but in the early years it really kept that realism. Heroes PArts 1 nd 2 spring to mind. A lot of people really hate that epi for a number of reasons, the death of Frasier one of them, but i loved it, i thought it was realistic and really gave the audience a sense of perspective about what the life of an SGC officer would be like.
Yeah, I loved it to.

Laura Dove
October 21st, 2008, 10:49 PM
No thanks, there has been more than enough main character deaths already.

If they really wanted to kill someone, it should have been Daniel Jackson in "The Lost Tribe"; at least it would have spared us a long and absolute tediousness.

Cautious Explorer
October 22nd, 2008, 06:08 AM
The enemies aren't threatening because they're written like bumbling fools. A main cast member being killed by bumbling fools isn't going to do anything except make the team look like bumbling fools too.

TPTB need to stop with the cut rate wigs and makeup on the Wraith and write more complicated plots that don't rely on the team breaking out of the same Wraith hive ship over and over again

Jackie
October 22nd, 2008, 07:02 AM
There is no doubt that the sense of fear towards the Wraith and basically any enemy that approaches the Expedition members, is gone!

So i say to TPTB, KILL A REGULAR CHARACTER (for good :P). Dont kill a redshirt, that does nothing, dont kill a reaccuring, like Heightmeyer, cos it doesn;t leave a long lasting effect, KILL Sheppard, KILL McKay, KILL Teyla, or even KILL Ronin, that would create fear, he is the toughest man apparently.

When the Wraith stun someone these days, it's:
hmmm lets put them in a cell, let them break out and destroy a Hive and escape as easy as you like!

This diminishes an enemy and the show.

I say again:
KILL SOMEONE!

KILL KELLER!!!!!!

In all seriousness I would have to ask, why bother? The show has killed major characters off and never delt with the grief that should have followed. Daniel died and ascended and that was the closest tptb ever came to dealing with the impact of death and even that was half-ass.

Seriously, kill Teyla? Why? She's already a walking zombie with no real purpose. might as well kill a red shirt. Kill Ronon...ditto! He's a red shirt for the most part. Kill Rodney? Boy I would like to see that but then we wouldn't have a show...Since everything is Rodney based. Kill Sheppard? How would that impact the show? We know about Rodney and Keller anyways.

The show has killed off: Carson Beckett, Elizabeth weir and Lt Ford. All were regular character, not re-occurring and tptb FAILED to address the loses. How would killing off another character fix that problem when we already know the loss will not be addressed.

TPTB might as well just destroy Atlantis and scatter the people throughout the galaxy. it would be more interesting than the crap we currently got.


No thanks, there has been more than enough main character deaths already.

If they really wanted to kill someone, it should have been Daniel Jackson in "The Lost Tribe"; at least it would have spared us a long and absolute tediousness.

But killing Daniel has become a joke. He NEVER actually dies. If the writers wanted a fan-fit-throwing event they should have killed (for good) mckay.

maxbo
October 22nd, 2008, 08:07 AM
I wouldn't want to see more characters die either, especially when the only characters that are killed off are those that the writers no longer want to write for.

If they really want to shake things up then they should kill their favorites, Rodney and Keller, because with those two gone the writers would be forced to come up with storylines (other than 1 token episode a season) for the other characters.

naamiaiset
October 22nd, 2008, 11:32 AM
Rumor has that they are! :(


Source?
JM mentioned it in his blog that there's a (possible) character death this season.

Stormtrooper
October 22nd, 2008, 12:08 PM
JM mentioned it in his blog that there's a (possible) character death this season.

What is a possible character death? Because, the way I see it, they've already killed the McKay character this season. Is that what JM is possibly referring to?

naamiaiset
October 22nd, 2008, 12:14 PM
What is a possible character death? Because, the way I see it, they've already killed the McKay character this season. Is that what JM is possibly referring to?
I'm wrong, it wasn't in JM's blog. I found the post:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8986132&postcount=1798

Infinite-Possibilities
October 22nd, 2008, 12:16 PM
I'd really prefer they didn't.

Ncc-72452
October 22nd, 2008, 05:11 PM
There is no doubt that the sense of fear towards the Wraith and basically any enemy that approaches the Expedition members, is gone!

So i say to TPTB, KILL A REGULAR CHARACTER (for good :P). Dont kill a redshirt, that does nothing, dont kill a reaccuring, like Heightmeyer, cos it doesn;t leave a long lasting effect, KILL Sheppard, KILL McKay, KILL Teyla, or even KILL Ronin, that would create fear, he is the toughest man apparently.

When the Wraith stun someone these days, it's:
hmmm lets put them in a cell, let them break out and destroy a Hive and escape as easy as you like!

This diminishes an enemy and the show.

I say again:
KILL SOMEONE!

I think I see where you are coming from, and I agree with your goal, but not your methods. As others have pointed out, three series regulars have been killed off. They should have used them. If they had consistently written the Wraith as dangerously as they wrote them in Season 1, and threw in some character deaths to the show's main adversary (rather than to an exploding tumor... Yeah, that still makes me stop and go, "What?", death by nanite consumption/death by jumper crash/death by digital ascension/death by space gating/is she really dead???, or by suicidal delusion via Wraith enzyme), then it really would have intensified the conflict. Each time the Wraith would kill one of our people, it would have only fueled the adversarial flames all the more, IMHO...

There have been WAY too many cast changes for my tastes over the past two seasons, and I can't say that I'd support more, especially that the show has been canned. I suspect that the Wraith problem will be dealt with in the first movie, thus tying up that storyline rather than banking on getting a second, third, forth, etc. movie to wrap it up. They could leave a few Wraith factions that could pop up in future movies though.

Jack_Bauer
October 22nd, 2008, 05:17 PM
In all seriousness I would have to ask, why bother? The show has killed major characters off and never delt with the grief that should have followed. Daniel died and ascended and that was the closest tptb ever came to dealing with the impact of death and even that was half-ass.


Frasier?

SGLAB
October 22nd, 2008, 07:31 PM
Frasier?

Yes, and then she was promptly forgotten after the episode of her death until season 9 when they needed a reason for Sam's absence in the first five episodes so said Cassie (Frasier's daughter who was also promptly forgotten) needed Sam. :rolleyes:

Jack_Bauer
October 22nd, 2008, 08:48 PM
Yes, and then she was promptly forgotten after the episode of her death until season 9 when they needed a reason for Sam's absence in the first five episodes so said Cassie (Frasier's daughter who was also promptly forgotten) needed Sam. :rolleyes:

Dedicating a solid two-parter to her death was sufficient. Do you want a series of depression? No. But the realism was shown quite well.

Lythisrose
October 22nd, 2008, 09:07 PM
Kill Bill

Jack_Bauer
October 22nd, 2008, 09:11 PM
Kill Bill

Dr. Lee? Why? His not a regular character and his death would probably be funny and accepted by fans.

Lythisrose
October 22nd, 2008, 09:34 PM
Dr. Lee? Why? His not a regular character and his death would probably be funny and accepted by fans.


http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh315/lythiasrose/Other%20stuff/kill_bill_photo_shoot-1.jpg

Oh, I'd never want to kill Dr Lee....;)

Irish Eyes
October 22nd, 2008, 10:05 PM
I wouldn't want to see more characters die either, especially when the only characters that are killed off are those that the writers no longer want to write for.

Well, if that's the case, Teyla must be next in line. :mckay:

One of my favorite shows got rid of my favorite character not long ago, and although I was sad to see her go, I LOVED the way they did it. Plus the fact it impacted the next couple of seasons. Imagine that! We're lucky if it impacts the next episode with SGA. :(

So I would have to say don't kill any more characters on SGA. It's pointless.

Jack_Bauer
October 22nd, 2008, 10:42 PM
Well, if that's the case, Teyla must be next in line. :mckay:

One of my favorite shows got rid of my favorite character not long ago, and although I was sad to see her go, I LOVED the way they did it. Plus the fact it impacted the next couple of seasons. Imagine that! We're lucky if it impacts the next episode with SGA. :(

So I would have to say don't kill any more characters on SGA. It's pointless.

If you don't mind me asking... what show was that?

Jackie
October 23rd, 2008, 03:14 AM
Frasier?

I forgot to list her, maybe because....


Yes, and then she was promptly forgotten after the episode of her death until season 9 when they needed a reason for Sam's absence in the first five episodes so said Cassie (Frasier's daughter who was also promptly forgotten) needed Sam. :rolleyes:


exactly! :)


MASH (the series) had a significant cast turn over as well. When tptb killed henry blake the show had number of eps where the cast had to grieve for henry and adjust to colonel potter. It was a smooth, believable transaction.

Stargate skirts the issue by simply never bringing it up again till the script calls for it. Then simply state X amount of time had passed. I hated what they did to weir. No closure, no grieving, at least beckett got a funeral. Weir got absolutely nothing! Just a few scenes where teyla pack her things and Sheppard and talking to Rodney. Where Rodney compared it to beckett.

Grieving and adjusting takes time and when a character dies it's just like having a real person dying to many fans. I know initially it sounds like a stretch but in reality people grow attached to characters the same way you grow attached to idols and celebrities. When the character is killed off and no longer spoke of and heard from again in the series, fans actually do go through a grieving processes. Not as serve as the grieving processes for losing a family member of friend but still an actually grieving process.

Denial--the fan can't believe their fav character was killed off.
Anger--for killing off their fav character
sadness--become disheartened by the show (the most crucial time for the fan could lose interest in the show)
finally acceptance--the end result will be either the fan accepts the loss and moves on either with the show or without the show.

TPTB in stargate FAIL to recognize this process not only in their fandom but also in their characters that should ALSO go through it. Showing the affect of the death and transition to a new character helps with the healing processes for not only the characters of the show but the fans as well.

Never kill off a character without addressing the healing process or your work will be degraded to nothing more than shock and awe values that are superficial only.

Achaja
October 23rd, 2008, 08:37 AM
The Wraith became funny after the second season for me. They aren't really threat now! Oh maybe Todd lately, but now the situation with true enemy became hopeless -in this funny meanings. I respected the Wraith but what they do now with them is real comedy = everything! :mckay:

I doubt that killing someone important will improve *that* bad situation, and bring back the reputation Wraith used to have...