PDA

View Full Version : Any doubt now that Carson adds more Dynamic to episodes than Keller?



Ripple in Space
October 18th, 2008, 02:11 PM
?

The_DrRodneyMckay
October 18th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Of course he is going to due to the fact that he is the one that we know better and have liked for so long.

Reiko
October 18th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I never did doubt it.

I'd like to know what the people that say "they like both equally" think, or even if any Keller fans agree with this statement. :)

Pandora's_Box
October 18th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I think Carson added more dynamic than Keller could have in this particular episode given his history with both the Wraith and the Hoffan plague.

But, again, you're attempting universalize a highly subjective notion. People like either character for different reasons.

They are different characters with different histories and they both bring their own elements to the show.

Ncc-72452
October 18th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Nope, no doubt.

The dart cockpit scene alone was worth watching the episode. I kept wondering why they didn't do this type of thing between Carson and Rodney sooner. But no, they axed him with so much potential still left in the character. Gee, who else could they have done this to??? ;) To think that if it wasn't for the Save Carson Beckett Campaign and other efforts, we wouldn't have seen some of this potential come to fruition.

dasNdanger
October 18th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Actually, this episode has made me hate Carson, and miss Keller.

go figger.


das

Gate-builder
October 18th, 2008, 10:03 PM
I like Beckett more than Keller, he is really funny, especially with Rodney as the dart scene showed. I still like Keller as well though and I'm glad we have seen a bit more of her this season.

Arica15
October 19th, 2008, 12:23 AM
Well I loathe Keller with a passion so my answer may be a little biased ;)

I just like Carson, I turn off when I see Keller.

CazzBlade
October 19th, 2008, 08:40 AM
I haven't been fussed about clone!Carson at all, in fact would have preferred them to keep him dead :o. BUT I adored him in this episode :D and his interaction with the other characters! I didn't realise how much I'd missed it :)

Lythisrose
October 19th, 2008, 08:52 AM
I didn't realize I felt this strongly about the whole Keller/Carson thing, but watching Outsiders I felt a palpable sense of relief having Carson as the SGA doc. Things seemed back in their proper place. :)
(Mainly, though, I think it's the idea that now almost every time Keller is onscreen, it reminds me of the McKeller ship, which I really don't like.)

God's in His Heaven, all's right with the world Robert Browning (http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Robert_Browning/)
English poet (1812 - 1889)

Briangate78
October 19th, 2008, 09:01 AM
Not to turn this into an Anti-Keller thread but I prefer Carson over Keller anyday. I just think Carson's character has more to offer on the dynamic and drama end. A love triangle does not interest me, and I would watch BSG if I wanted that. What interests me is good friendship bonds, and seeing someone willing to sacrifice their life to save others. That to me is more interesting. Not who's banging who. :rolleyes:

Naonak
October 19th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Yeah, Carson probably does. I still like Keller plenty though.

Briangate78
October 19th, 2008, 09:12 AM
Yeah, Carson probably does. I still like Keller plenty though.

I don't hate Keller, but Carson to me is more interesting.

jelgate
October 19th, 2008, 09:18 AM
Carson has his strengths while Keller has hers. He just happens to have more experence with the Hoffan drug just like I would trust Keller more when it comes the "Queen"drug

Clem
October 19th, 2008, 09:29 AM
I'm happy with either doctor, but i really wish they'd come up with a good reason for Beckett to disappear every so often.

When they discovered him in season 4, he talked about how he'd missed them all and how all he wanted to do was return to Atlantis. But now he's back, he can't get away quick enough and it plays really strangely to me.

I know the actor is only signed for about 5 episodes, so they've spaced them out and varied the style of story, but in the context of the character it doesn't make any sense.

s09119
October 19th, 2008, 09:32 AM
I actually didn't like Carson in this episode... the acting was a bit still at times and the constant plays at humor were annoying since it was a rather dark episode and I was enjoying that.

Plus... Carson isn't a marksman. Can someone please explain to me why he was able to take out 8 Wraith soldiers, taking cover, while standing in the open, with a pistol he's never used before?

Avalonis
October 19th, 2008, 09:53 AM
Plus... Carson isn't a marksman. Can someone please explain to me why he was able to take out 8 Wraith soldiers, taking cover, while standing in the open, with a pistol he's never used before?

I could do that with any pistol you give me and i have limited experience, and usually with rifles. Why? Cant you?

s09119
October 19th, 2008, 10:43 AM
I could do that with any pistol you give me and i have limited experience, and usually with rifles. Why? Cant you?

So if I gave you a pistol and shoved you into a room with 8 Wraith soldiers hiding behind walls and shooting at you, while you were standing in the middle, with no cover, you could take them all out without being hit?

Okay, sure...

bluealien
October 19th, 2008, 11:18 AM
I prefer Carson as a doctor and he is far more convincing than Keller will ever be. I still would prefer him to stick to the role of doctor and not rambo Carson. The scene on the hive ship was rediculous and it makes the Wraith to be complete idiots.. Four of them can't hit anyone but Carson is on target each time even they he is just randomly shooting...

I have no idea why tptb replaced Carson for Keller. She brings nothing to do the show for me whatsover except a silly love triangle.

JeffKnight
October 19th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I'm one of those people that like both characters, but not equally. I think Keller is good because of the aspects a female doctor brings to the show, similar to what Janet brought in SG-1 - and also because I agree with Rodney that she is HOT.

I like Carson better because he is a more dynamic character. Keller easily fits into 2-3 roles: doctor, conscience, and sometimes the surprise necessary force/warrior as we saw last week. Carson can fill all those roles, as we saw in this episode, but also so many more. There is also the friendship that exists between the team and Carson. Of course we'd go out of our way to protect or help Keller, but it isn't the same as when Carson needs us.

Pandora's_Box
October 19th, 2008, 11:35 AM
I'm one of those people that like both characters, but not equally. I think Keller is good because of the aspects a female doctor brings to the show, similar to what Janet brought in SG-1 - and also because I agree with Rodney that she is HOT.

I like Carson better because he is a more dynamic character. Keller easily fits into 2-3 roles: doctor, conscience, and sometimes the surprise necessary force/warrior as we saw last week. Carson can fill all those roles, as we saw in this episode, but also so many more. There is also the friendship that exists between the team and Carson. Of course we'd go out of our way to protect or help Keller, but it isn't the same as when Carson needs us.

And a lot of that has to do with how much longer Carson has been a part of this show and how much longer people have had to identify with him or to simply come to love him as a character.

Personally, I don't like him but I can't deny that more people are more emotionally invested in his character than in Keller's. I'm not, but I guess I'm the exception to that rule. :D

SGLAB
October 19th, 2008, 11:58 AM
Just watching The Rising again reminded me of what I thought was so great about Carson. He showed a passion and fascination of science while holding onto a severred wraith arm and telling Elizabeth what he had learned from it. I haven't felt that kind of passion and fascination from Keller.

Ripple in Space
October 19th, 2008, 12:12 PM
I don't hate Keller. Her character's gotten better, and with Weir gone and Teyla's peripheral role, they did need another woman to round out the cast.

Carson's just a lot better. And the "he's been there longer, that's why" argument is not true, since like SGLAB was saying, from "Rising," the pilot episode, Carson added that same dynamic.

Rac80
October 19th, 2008, 12:21 PM
clone!carson seems "off" to me, I was waiting for him to "have" to obey wraith mind-control. that is one of the issues for me. i can't stand the interaction iwth him and mckay either...I just want to smack them each one and tell them to grow up. :S

Ltcolshepjumper
October 19th, 2008, 12:49 PM
clone!carson (?) just isn't the same as the original, even though Beckett is still a very interesting character, more so than Keller. As a whole, I think the character relationships and dynamic is not as good as it was in seasons 1-3, and, while the plots have become more interesting, it just isn't the same. The original cast (seasons 1-3) added a level of personal interaction that these last two seasons (w/ Carter, Woolsey, and Keller) just haven't been able to reproduce.

gatechick
October 19th, 2008, 01:09 PM
I don't hate keller, I just think that as an actor she doesn't have that dynamic quality that makes her stand out and be noticed, like Carson does. I really enjoyed his part in this episode and it made me miss him even more. Carson is to Atlantis what Janet was to SG-1, IMO.

Pic
October 19th, 2008, 07:35 PM
I think the scenes with Rodney & Carson in this episode obviously required the Carson-effect (vs. Keller). And I'll agree with what others have said about the Hoffan experience.

Just because the two characters have held the position of CMO does not mean that they play the same role. For me, it's not really and either/or kind of thing. Paul & Jewel play different characters.

JeffKnight
October 19th, 2008, 08:02 PM
I don't hate keller, I just think that as an actor she doesn't have that dynamic quality that makes her stand out and be noticed, like Carson does. I really enjoyed his part in this episode and it made me miss him even more. Carson is to Atlantis what Janet was to SG-1, IMO.

Exactly! Janet was much the same way as Keller is now until Cassie came into the picture and the character started to develop. Which is why I don't hate Keller - there is potential there to be a well-rounded character (not on the scale of Carson by any means, but a good supporting character). Unfortunately, Keller doesn't have the time that Janet did (with the cancellation).

We also need to remember that Carson is/was a "star" character. Keller is backup.

Buck32
October 20th, 2008, 02:52 AM
?


No doubt whatsoever, i love that they brought Beckett back, i wouldn't care if never saw keller again, i hope they bring him back for the movie as well.

Laura Dove
October 20th, 2008, 03:25 AM
I'm liking Keller again and even grew quite fond of her in "First Contact" and "The Lost Tribe", but I think Beckett has more... I don't know, more presence on screen. I like them differently: Keller as a surgeon and compassionate doctor able to understand wraith's point of view even though she might not approve (while Beckett imposed his own views on Michael without remorse); Beckett as a medical researcher and member of the team. Keller appears innocent and self-effacing, while Beckett has always been darker (even more now after 2 years in captivity by Michael), but also has a more prominent personality.

But although I enjoyed Beckett in "Outsiders", I couldn't shake a bittersweet feeling. It felt "wrong" to get Beckett, knowing we wouldn't see him again until ages. It's like looking at old photos of a dead person you used to like: It brings good memories, but they're just memories. I wish he would come back to Atlantis and we would regularly get glimpses of him, even when he's not the focus of the episode.

jenks
October 20th, 2008, 04:38 AM
Hell yes, a lot of doubt, especially given they had to write him so far out of character for the episode to be interesting. Rambo Carson WTF?! He definitely doesn't improve the dynamic of the team in my opinion, though I can understand why people think he has better chemistry with them, but considering how long they've known him and the fact that he's basically on of their best friends come back from the dead, how could he not?

Pitry
October 20th, 2008, 04:46 AM
I don't hate Keller. Her character's gotten better, and with Weir gone and Teyla's peripheral role, they did need another woman to round out the cast.


Some might argue the solution to that could have been to keep Weir and to give Tyla a more prominent role. ;)

Pandora's_Box
October 20th, 2008, 04:56 AM
Some might argue the solution to that could have been to keep Weir and to give Tyla a more prominent role. ;)

That again? :: covers ears ::

I don't want to hear it again! :p

CazzBlade
October 20th, 2008, 05:12 AM
Some might argue the solution to that could have been to keep Weir and to give Teyla a more prominent role. ;)

You make a very good point ;):D I'd trade Keller in for Weir and more of Teyla anyday :D I'd trade Carson in for that too ;)

Linda06
October 20th, 2008, 05:17 AM
No doubt whatsoever....I miss Carson...Whispers didn't do him justice but he toatally rocked in this ep :D

Plus Rodney is alot more bearable when Carson's around...I normally don't like Rodney but I do love the Rodney/Carson banter!

Pitry
October 20th, 2008, 06:53 AM
That again? :: covers ears ::

I don't want to hear it again! :p

I know, I'm so repetitive these days... ;)

Did I mention the real irony is I don't actually mind Keller? :P

Pandora's_Box
October 20th, 2008, 07:40 AM
I know, I'm so repetitive these days... ;)

Did I mention the real irony is I don't actually mind Keller? :P

Oh, I know you don't. But I'm afraid you'll get the others all riled up again. And they just settled down too!

Pitry
October 20th, 2008, 09:37 AM
Oh, I know you don't. But I'm afraid you'll get the others all riled up again. And they just settled down too!

Oh, I've got some really cool chocolate here, that should help everyone calm down! :D

adamisme
October 20th, 2008, 11:24 AM
I liked the dynamic between Carson and Rodney in the episode, but I'm still a fan of Keller, though might have to be that I like the look of her hehe

Avalonis
October 20th, 2008, 12:50 PM
So if I gave you a pistol and shoved you into a room with 8 Wraith soldiers hiding behind walls and shooting at you, while you were standing in the middle, with no cover, you could take them all out without being hit?

Okay, sure...

Absolutely, if i can get to the first one and shoot him in the head and hold his body infront of me as a human (wraith) shield. I could easily kill at least 8 wraith soldiers without being hit. I hope ur not teaching at west point.

jenks
October 20th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Absolutely, if i can get to the first one and shoot him in the head and hold his body infront of me as a human (wraith) shield. I could easily kill at least 8 wraith soldiers without being hit. I hope ur not teaching at west point.

You couldn't. Do you know how hard it is to carry people when they're just dead weight? It's not going to happen.

Lenas
October 21st, 2008, 03:56 AM
Never, ever had any doubt - agree, hope they bring him back for the movies:)

Avalonis
October 21st, 2008, 04:57 AM
You couldn't. Do you know how hard it is to carry people when they're just dead weight? It's not going to happen.

Yes i do, and who said anything about carrying them anywhere? Life isnt a john wayne movie.

The Prophet
October 21st, 2008, 05:15 AM
Yes i do, and who said anything about carrying them anywhere? Life isnt a john wayne movie.

8 Wraith Soldiers, basically bred for war, against a semi-skilled guy with a pistol, who's standing out in the open.

He'd have to be pretty fast to shoot all 8 Wraith before he was hit in return, and pretty lucky/ agile to dodge any shots that the Wraith do manage get in.

Life isn't a John Wayne movie; John Wayne would probably be dead in those situations.

jenks
October 21st, 2008, 05:19 AM
Yes i do, and who said anything about carrying them anywhere? Life isnt a john wayne movie.

You said hold his body up in front of you, I assumed that meant you'd be standing up, same difference really, you're not going to be able to hold him up in front of you, let alone with one arm while you shoot Wraith with the other...

maxbo
October 21st, 2008, 08:07 AM
Nope, I've never doubted that Carson adds more to the episodes than Keller. Although I didn't have a problem with Keller until Quarantine, I've never found her as interesting as Carson. She's never had the presence or the passion to make me want to see more of her and her shortcomings are even more apparent when she's in scenes with Carson.

During Kindred 2, I remember thinking that if TPTB were determined to keep her as CMO, then they better limit her screen time with Carson, because he was such a dynamic presence in that episode that Keller practically disappeared for me. Unfortunately, when I did notice her, I cringed because, next to Carson, she came across as more of an intern than the head of Atlantis' medical department.

Perhaps the writers came to the same conclusion, because although there is a lot of Keller this season, she hasn't had much screentime with Carson yet.

stargatelvr
October 22nd, 2008, 01:09 PM
?

I never had any doubt.

Integrabyte
October 23rd, 2008, 04:14 AM
Never, ever had any doubt - agree, hope they bring him back for the movies:)

He did say something positive on that note at the con in Belgium.

Arica15
October 23rd, 2008, 08:44 AM
He did say something positive on that note at the con in Belgium.

And your just telling us this now?:rolleyes:

Integrabyte
October 23rd, 2008, 10:24 AM
And your just telling us this now?:rolleyes:

You never asked :P.

elliecat
October 23rd, 2008, 10:53 AM
Keller and dynamic don't make good bed fellows. :S

Arica15
October 23rd, 2008, 10:55 AM
Keller and dynamic don't make good bed fellows. :S

This is very true. And Teggy
EWWW

Arica15
October 23rd, 2008, 11:02 AM
Huh?

Oh that's right I wasn't supposed to say, silly me.;)

And now with our silliness we've waltzed so far off topic we're practically in orbit.....

Keller makes me want to turn off Stargate, Beckett makes me want to watch it again, I suppose it's just that simple for me

Integrabyte
October 23rd, 2008, 11:05 AM
I guess...too much testosterone in SGA so they needed to bring some lipstick :P.

Silverwings
October 23rd, 2008, 11:49 AM
Keller makes me want to turn off Stargate, Beckett makes me want to watch it again, I suppose it's just that simple for me

Indeed. I do find, however, that it's only partially due to the character. It's just as much about what the character represents in my mind. (Which is to say, lazy writing, cheap titillation and character assassination.)

Browncoat1984
October 23rd, 2008, 11:56 AM
So much Keller hate. I like both Keller and Carson and I think that they could work well together as a team solving medical problems.

Blencathra
October 23rd, 2008, 12:08 PM
I prefer Keller. I found watching Carson in Outsiders so tedious that I got out my furniture polish & duster and did some housework. That must mean I was REALLY bored.

Skydiver
October 23rd, 2008, 12:38 PM
personally, i found the mckay/beckett banter fest to be rather childish and silly

fine in small doses, but the laurel and hardy act in the dart was silly

I liked carson realizing the mess he'd helped to create with the hoffan drug, i liked rod getting them off the ship without his hero shep to rescue him, the banter was just annoying

Celesto
October 23rd, 2008, 12:54 PM
Carson has more story than Keller. Still not sure who is the real doc now at SGA :). Keller it is, but what is Carson doing? In "Outsiders" he seemed to be kind of an Reserve-Doc, which has time for other things. I m looking forward, how the stories will be told till the Final. Carsons Role is unsolved for me.

Carson an Rodney made (and yeah, make) a good team. To have a "best friendship"-story is always good. But nevertheless the dont know much of each other, which makes it fascinating for me. Maybe an episode of their foreign life would be cool :). At least interesting for me.

Aaaand i m snoopy, how they are replacing the destroyed stargate.

Rac80
October 23rd, 2008, 12:59 PM
Carson has more story than Keller. Still not sure who is the real doc now at SGA :). Keller it is, but what is Carson doing? In "Outsiders" he seemed to be kind of an Reserve-Doc, which has time for other things. I m looking forward, how the stories will be told till the Final. Carsons Role is unsolved for me.

Carson an Rodney made (and yeah, make) a good team. To have a "best friendship"-story is always good. But nevertheless the dont know much of each other, which makes it fascinating for me. Maybe an episode of their foreign life would be cool :). At least interesting for me.

Aaaand i m snoopy, how they are replacing the destroyed stargate.

with one that had been used in the midway station set-up.

I didn't like clone!carson in the ep. the interactions seemed too forced. He is not on atlantis because he is a security risk... Michael can still control him. (michael bragged he had programmed his control into carson['s dna!)



Also, am I the only one that sees when tptb kill someone off and bring them back they become a "rambo" character??... carson and daniel come to mind!

Skydiver
October 23rd, 2008, 05:14 PM
ok, so if michael holds the control switch....how is having carson running around unguarded and unmonitored safer than having him stay in the milky way where michael can't get his hands on him?

Integrabyte
October 24th, 2008, 02:08 AM
Also, am I the only one that sees when tptb kill someone off and bring them back they become a "rambo" character??... carson and daniel come to mind!


Yes, change your optician :P. You should have gone to Specsavers :P;


*********HEEEEE HEEEE HEEE HEEE HEEEE *************

Integrabyte
October 24th, 2008, 02:14 AM
ok, so if michael holds the control switch....how is having carson running around unguarded and unmonitored safer than having him stay in the milky way where michael can't get his hands on him?

Michael is looking for batteries for his remote hon. By the time he finds them, the new film is finished and he will show up. Do not question the lack of continuity in SGA, take it as it is :D.

ZOMG!b_cs
October 26th, 2008, 06:01 AM
The Carson/Rodney banter was nice, a bit overdone in a couple places, but I didn't mind. Keller wouldn't have fit in the story line like Carson, but that doesn't mean I like Carson more than Keller. I actually have enjoyed the few scenes in which both Carson and Keller appear. I'd like to see them working together on a project.

Ikaros
November 4th, 2008, 08:49 AM
?

I think you 're comparing apples with oranges !!

I like them both but for different reasons each.

Falcon Horus
November 25th, 2008, 10:26 AM
I don't hate Keller. Her character's gotten better, and with Weir gone and Teyla's peripheral role, they did need another woman to round out the cast.

Actually if they had done some serious writing for these two women... there wouldn't have been a need for another one. But as they can't seem to figure out what to do with Weir (who they dumped at the nearest gate) and Teyla (who they have standing around in the background, making her think she's important), they create a new character whom they use as their little pawn to do everything with it except be a strong female presence.


Janet was much the same way as Keller is now until Cassie came into the picture and the character started to develop.

Janet was never like Keller - and don't ever compare these two characters again, because Keller pales in Janet's presence like WOW! She was a recurring character who had a dynamic with the regular that Keller doesn't have, and will never have no matter how hard TPTW try.

Teryl and TPTB of SG1 did an amazing job with her, until the moment they decided to kill her.


Keller is backup.

If Keller is back-up, then what is Teyla?


Some might argue the solution to that could have been to keep Weir and to give Tyla a more prominent role. ;)

*points upwards*


And your just telling us this now?:rolleyes:

I did tell this - I think even in the Anti-Keller thread. Or the Complaints for season 5 thread. I'm quite sure I did.

Edit: Oh yeah, I should probably answer the question...

Like I said in the episode-thread, I almost could imagine this to be an old-school Atlantis episode, and the fact that Carson made that feeling exist in the first place - I'd have to say there's not a doubt in my mind that he has a better dynamic than Keller.

I love Jewel for anyone who cares, but I hate Keller with a vengeance. She is by far the worst character ever written in Stargate history, and that means she is in fact worse than Lucius.


Paul McGillion has présence, which I fear Jewel lacks, in the part of Keller anyway.

Alpaca
February 24th, 2013, 06:04 PM
I love Jewel Staite but I have to agree after watching this ep, Carson is definitely more entertaining. Still, I don't think she's THAT bad. Rodney is as amusing as ever. The way he starts talking a mile a minute, totally freaks out under pressure but then manages to find a way to save the day is what I love about his character. Of course the dry, sarcastic humor helps too. Also love the dynamics of the Carson/Rodney relationship.

Snowman37
February 24th, 2013, 06:19 PM
Holy thread resurrection, Batman, this one's been dormant for four years! :eek: