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Ruffles
October 18th, 2008, 05:53 AM
Why wasn't Teyla able to sense the Wraith before they entered the village? The writers have used that numerous times through the seasons and made a major arc dealing with her Wraith DNA and abilities last season. Suddenly, she no longer has it.

Did I miss an explanation in a previous ep?

To me, the writers ignored canon and went with dramatic effect.

So, make up your own canon. Tell me why Teyla couldn't sense them.

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 05:58 AM
I noticed that too...I have no idea what happened to make her lose her wraith detection ability...Strange!

Maybe her bambino took all the abilities from her *shrugs*

Suzieb
October 18th, 2008, 06:19 AM
That was the first thing that entered my mind when the Wraith suddenly showed up in the village. And also at the Gate and in the forest when she was with Ronan, she didn't sense them either. And strangely enough not one member of the team even mentioned that fact. Sheppard and Carson above anyone else should have noticed that.

CazzBlade
October 18th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Hmm... maybe she lost some of it when they turned her back at the end of the Queen, took out too much Wraith DNA or something.

I don't actually beleive that, I totally think they just ignored it to fit the story but hey *shrugs*

aboleyn24
October 18th, 2008, 06:28 AM
I don't have a problem with the additional Wraith at the gate because I always thought once there were multiple Wraith that was all she felt, not like she can tune in and give an accurate accounting of how many Wraith are about. But the fact that she didn't detect them in the begining of the episode ruined the entire episode for me. It was such a huge mistake that it pulled me out of any involvement in the story.

Her gift is so established in this show to just throw it aside for a momentary scream and reveal was just cheap theatrics. For a moment I had to make sure Teyla was with the team.

I know that sometimes the writers play fast and loose with canon to advance the story but this was a huge blunder in my opinion.

gatechick
October 18th, 2008, 06:31 AM
Teyla lost her ability to sense the wraith when the writers stopped writing for her. ;)

The6thRace
October 18th, 2008, 06:59 AM
The only possible reason I can think of besides writer screw up is that she couldn't sense the wraith because they didn't intend to feed. Maybe their hunger has something to do with their presence on Teylas radar.

Ltcolshepjumper
October 18th, 2008, 07:53 AM
Well, she actually hasn't used the ability since season 4. So, maybe the Wraith found a way to prevent it, or even Michael took it away from her.

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 08:31 AM
Also, normally she detects Hive Ships, no? Even when sitting in one Hive Ship, she detects a Queen being agitated, and a second one flying next to the first one...

The excuse for her not to feel the extra troops because she's already feeling some is a good one, especially when they're all close by, but on the other hand, the Hive she should have known. I don't know any more if the guys looked surprised at the mention of a ship being there, or not. She could have told them off screen. No use stating the obvious if they show a Hive ship entering orbit.

And I think they intend for her powers to grow even further. We'll know by The Prodigal, or Infection, I recon.

Anubis-
October 18th, 2008, 08:38 AM
Teyla tell's in first season, that gift need lot of focus (or concentrate, what is right word). Maybe Teyla just chilling when walk to gate. It is different situation when exploring.

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Although you could say that, before the team went to Athos, she could 'suddenly' sense some cold in her when the Wraith were nearby...

That didn't require concentration, just DNA, as it just happened, and she didn't learn to concentrate on the feeling yet, and didn't know she could come in contact with them herself.

Killdeer
October 18th, 2008, 09:44 AM
Teyla's wraith "gift" has been strangely absent ever since Spoils of War. I suppose it's especially noticeable this season because JM made so much of Teyla going to have heightened wraith abilities in this season. But instead of having heightened abilities, they seem to have vanished altogether. Even in The Queen, which would have been a perfect opportunity to showcase those abilities if indeed they were going to, we got zilch.

I think if it's going to happen at all it'll happen in The Prodigal, but after The Queen (which is where I thought it was going to happen) I don't have a lot of hope.

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 10:59 AM
Teyla was occupied and was not concentrating. She has to link to the Wraith network to be able to make contact and to feel their presence. Her modem cable was just unplugged, lol. It is not like Teal'c and Carter when they can sense a Goa'uld nearby, or if someone is a goa'uld. Also, remember she has to be in a certain state like sleeping or in a hypnotic state to really make that connection. The writers did not forget anything.

tombombadil
October 18th, 2008, 11:54 AM
writers just messed up. they never gave any explanation in the show.

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 11:58 AM
writers just messed up. they never gave any explanation in the show.

Well Alan McCullough wrote an excellent episode here with all the twists and turns and great character chemistry. I would if I could like to ask him that question and see if he has an answer. I think it was not a big deal and well sometimes you have to use your imagination with a SCI FI show. I am just going to say, there was no time for her to sense the wraith.

maxbo
October 18th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Yes, the writers messed up because Teyla has always been able to sense when Wraith are near. She only needs to concentrate when she attempts to connect with them directly.

AnubisbyNight
October 18th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Ok , first post here...but I am a long time lurker!

There seems to be some confusion going on with Teyla's "Gift". Her "Gift" actually has two main parts to it.

1. The ability to sense the Wraith in the area (to what distance can be debated)

2. The ability to connect to the Wraith hive mind and take control of a Wraith mind.

The first is just instinct and requires no concentration or focus. It is simply a feeling she receives, which she knows means Wraith are around.

The second requires extreme concentration and focus to sometimes a meditative state.

With that all in mind the writers/director/producer simply dropped the ball here and omitted here "Gift" to detect the Wraith from the episode. Most likely as others have suggested it was for dramatic effect or so we may assume.

Dumb move and a big mistake with a main character that has a well established ability from the first episode throughout the series. Hopefully this will not become a pattern.

-Anubis

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Well Alan McCullough wrote an excellent episode here with all the twists and turns and great character chemistry. I would if I could like to ask him that question and see if he has an answer. I think it was not a big deal and well sometimes you have to use your imagination with a SCI FI show. I am just going to say, there was no time for her to sense the wraith.

That he did :D But I would also like to know why Teyla didn't sense them....Maybe someone could ask JM ;) But i'll forgive this little slipup because I loved the rest of the ep :D Well apart from the little bit at the end :S

Platschu
October 18th, 2008, 12:39 PM
If Teyla could control a Queen in last season, than she could try to change the mind of the commander. But I know she was pregnant, so she was more powerful. :)

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 01:03 PM
That he did :D But I would also like to know why Teyla didn't sense them....Maybe someone could ask JM ;) But i'll forgive this little slipup because I loved the rest of the ep :D Well apart from the little bit at the end :S

Honestly, I think the woman screaming had a more dramatic effect than Teyla saying "I sense Wraith People". :p

It really was a minor thing and it did not effect the episode for me.

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Teyla's wraith "gift" has been strangely absent ever since Spoils of War. I suppose it's especially noticeable this season because JM made so much of Teyla going to have heightened wraith abilities in this season. But instead of having heightened abilities, they seem to have vanished altogether. Even in The Queen, which would have been a perfect opportunity to showcase those abilities if indeed they were going to, we got zilch.

I think if it's going to happen at all it'll happen in The Prodigal, but after The Queen (which is where I thought it was going to happen) I don't have a lot of hope.

Infection...

Pictures show her standing behind the Wraith consoles again. If she has no problems flying, (no faint feeling) her powers have grown.

I must say I missed it in The Queen (maybe there was no time), and I'd like an explanation for the missing mind links between the Wraith.

Unless it's got something to do with Michael?

He picks up Teyla from over 10,000 light years, which might mean he was one of the best in it, and therefore they decided to use speech.

If that is so, where do you fit in something like that, can't really have Todd say: "Oh, and if you're wondering why we're speaking out loud, that's because we don't want Michael to know where we are."


Honestly, I think the woman screaming had a more dramatic effect than Teyla saying "I sense Wraith People". :p

It really was a minor thing and it did not effect the episode for me.

True. It wouldn't have been interesting if she would have said it.

Wraith walking into the village was better. :D

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 01:51 PM
Honestly, I think the woman screaming had a more dramatic effect than Teyla saying "I sense Wraith People". :p

It really was a minor thing and it did not effect the episode for me.

Like I said, I enjoyed this ep a great deal so I can forgive this little slip up ;)

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 01:56 PM
I wanted to mention that it's the second episode this season where they could have explored her powers a bit (if only sensing them in this ep), and they're both written by Alan. But on the other hand, in Search & Rescue Michael should have felt she was in labour, right? :o

But it'll get some development in The Prodigal, or Infection. Or maybe they're keeping it for EatG... :S

:lol:

Pegasus_SGA
October 18th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Why wasn't Teyla able to sense the Wraith before they entered the village? The writers have used that numerous times through the seasons and made a major arc dealing with her Wraith DNA and abilities last season. Suddenly, she no longer has it.

Did I miss an explanation in a previous ep?

To me, the writers ignored canon and went with dramatic effect.

So, make up your own canon. Tell me why Teyla couldn't sense them.

I noticed that to, maybe all her spideysense has now been passed over to her son, so hers is now limited? :P

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 02:44 PM
I noticed that to, maybe all her spideysense has now been passed over to her son, so hers is now limited? :P

The force was not strong with Teyla in this episode. :p

Pegasus_SGA
October 18th, 2008, 02:47 PM
The force was not strong with Teyla in this episode. :p
Maybe she was just overwhelmed with actually going off world and being with her team after all this time. ;) :P :D

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 02:53 PM
The force was not strong with Teyla in this episode. :p

Mental green.


Maybe she was just overwhelmed with actually going off world and being with her team after all this time. ;) :P :D

Green.

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Maybe she was just overwhelmed with actually going off world and being with her team after all this time. ;) :P :D

Yeah could be......

SHE FINALLY GETS TO GO OFF WORLD WITH THE REST OF THE TEAM :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Killdeer
October 18th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Actually, I forgot that she did link with Michael (although she thought it was Kanaan) in Kindred. So SoW wasn't the last time - Kindred 1 was. But after that her abilities mysteriously vanished.

If it weren't for JM telling us that her powers supposedly would be greater this season, I might be theorizing that Michael did something to her to neutralize them. Because she (apparently) hasn't been able to use them since he abducted her (There's a fanon explanation for you, Ruffles :D). I still haven't been able to figure out The Queen though. Teyla should have had to use her abilities to convince them - the wraith used to be able to sense each other, and that was true clear up through the beginning of S3.

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Hmm, yes. Michael got given a retrovirus, returned to his Wraithy self, and got kicked out for 'feeling off'.

Maybe the 'stench' was that he spent time with humans, and therefore was tainted, because he wanted to be a liaison between the Wraith and Atlantis...

Yet Teyla, who has a bit of Wraith DNA, can, through some sort of unidentified surgery, pose as a Wraith Queen...

While it was also established that she could sense from Ellia that she was different, didn't wanna feed.

But maybe they thought that a 'Teyla has never fed, so she doesn't know what it feels like' cleared up that latter part?

Hmm. Maybe in the comment on the DVD?

wolverine_nl
October 18th, 2008, 03:39 PM
I got the impression that she was surprised she didnt sense them when she was hiding in the bush with Ronon. I dunno, have to rewatch it, to be sure that my hunch is correct or incorrect.

Ruffles
October 18th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Teyla was occupied and was not concentrating. She has to link to the Wraith network to be able to make contact and to feel their presence. Her modem cable was just unplugged, lol. It is not like Teal'c and Carter when they can sense a Goa'uld nearby, or if someone is a goa'uld. Also, remember she has to be in a certain state like sleeping or in a hypnotic state to really make that connection. The writers did not forget anything.

I didn't mean her ability to link to the hive mind. I meant that dark, cold feeling she's had since childhood when Wraith are near.


Maybe she was just overwhelmed with actually going off world and being with her team after all this time. ;) :P :D

Bwahahahaha! Mental green for you!

Right now, I think my personal canon will be that all of her time with Michael numbed her abilities (like losing your sense of smell). Hopefully, it's temporary.

Zamboni
October 18th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Teyla is too occupied with her job search now that the season is near its end.

So distracted in fact, if you look at her near the end gate sequence, she almost mis-dialed...

(I'm serious, she was about to press a button and then moved to another...)

Sim
October 19th, 2008, 01:03 PM
Just a bit of inconsistent writing noting to see here folks.

aboleyn24
October 19th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Ok , first post here...but I am a long time lurker!

There seems to be some confusion going on with Teyla's "Gift". Her "Gift" actually has two main parts to it.

1. The ability to sense the Wraith in the area (to what distance can be debated)

2. The ability to connect to the Wraith hive mind and take control of a Wraith mind.

The first is just instinct and requires no concentration or focus. It is simply a feeling she receives, which she knows means Wraith are around.

The second requires extreme concentration and focus to sometimes a meditative state.

With that all in mind the writers/director/producer simply dropped the ball here and omitted here "Gift" to detect the Wraith from the episode. Most likely as others have suggested it was for dramatic effect or so we may assume.

Dumb move and a big mistake with a main character that has a well established ability from the first episode throughout the series. Hopefully this will not become a pattern.

-Anubis

Exactly!


Honestly, I think the woman screaming had a more dramatic effect than Teyla saying "I sense Wraith People". :p

It really was a minor thing and it did not effect the episode for me.


See that is my problem. They sacrificed cannon for a cheap dramatic stunt in my opinion. I admit more times than not when I see folks in an uproar over a writer slip up I had missed it entirely until reading about it here on GW. I am ususally so engrossed in the story that I don't notice if there is a smallish fault in the story. I guess why I am bothered by this one is it ripped me out of the story. As soon as we saw the Wrath I started to question if Teyla was actually with the team or if I had imagined her. I am not being sarcastic. I seriously rewound to make sure she was there. Once I made sure yes, Teyla was part of the team I started to wonder why she didn't sense the Wraith as she always has. At that point the curtain had been opened and I saw the man behind operating the pulls and buttons. The fantasy was gone and I lost all involvement in the story. So for me the more dramatic scene had the opposite effect, it took away all of the drama and made the episode subpar.

Ruffles
October 21st, 2008, 05:37 AM
Exactly!

See that is my problem. They sacrificed cannon for a cheap dramatic stunt in my opinion. I admit more times than not when I see folks in an uproar over a writer slip up I had missed it entirely until reading about it here on GW. I am ususally so engrossed in the story that I don't notice if there is a smallish fault in the story. I guess why I am bothered by this one is it ripped me out of the story. As soon as we saw the Wrath I started to question if Teyla was actually with the team or if I had imagined her. I am not being sarcastic. I seriously rewound to make sure she was there. Once I made sure yes, Teyla was part of the team I started to wonder why she didn't sense the Wraith as she always has. At that point the curtain had been opened and I saw the man behind operating the pulls and buttons. The fantasy was gone and I lost all involvement in the story. So for me the more dramatic scene had the opposite effect, it took away all of the drama and made the episode subpar.

It pulled me out of the story too. I REALLY dislike when our team acts out of character or suddenly can't do something (Rodney reloading a gun in Tracker, Teyla sensing the Wraith here) simply to service the story. M enjoyment wasn't completely gone, but it took a while for me to get pulled back in (which happened when Carson and Rodney got stunned).

ToasterOnFire
October 21st, 2008, 08:01 AM
Just a bit of inconsistent writing noting to see here folks.
SGA in a nutshell.

FallenAngelII
October 21st, 2008, 11:09 AM
It's just another random plot hole and case of bad writing. If, what, 10 Wraith drones couldn't hit Carson (who's not as thin as stick and thus a tiny target) standing in plain sight without any cover, then Teyla can randomly forget about her gift.

Maybe she did sense it but it was chilly so she thought she just needed to put on a sweater.

GoSpikey
October 21st, 2008, 02:09 PM
Oh, give it a rest.

They were blinded by his awesomeness! :P

P-90_177
October 21st, 2008, 02:23 PM
well it's the exact same thing with Teal'cs and Carters ability to sence Goa'uld. that just seemed to disappear too.

But for an exlanation in this instance perhaps teylas powers have grown to such a degree that she just senses wraith throughout the universe.

GoSpikey
October 21st, 2008, 02:33 PM
:eek:

Lol, yes.

The final eps haven't aired yet, so there might be a very logical answer coming, and so there's no need to overthink things now. ;)

Brain_Child
October 21st, 2008, 08:35 PM
Often times in stargate things that are established in the first several episodes are forgotten as they are too restricting.

For example remember the early episodes of SG1? Bullets would bounce off the armor of Jaffa warriors.
What about SGA? the wraith could withstand a whole clips from guns (i forgot which firearms they use. P90s or something?) but now a few bullets have been seen to take down wraith

things change. but even so, writers could drop a hint that Michael or the baby have something to do with the gift

GoSpikey
October 22nd, 2008, 06:55 AM
They might be dropping in a big hint in a few weeks time ;)

Stay tuned! ;)

FallenAngelII
October 22nd, 2008, 07:37 AM
Often times in stargate things that are established in the first several episodes are forgotten as they are too restricting.

For example remember the early episodes of SG1? Bullets would bounce off the armor of Jaffa warriors.
What about SGA? the wraith could withstand a whole clips from guns (i forgot which firearms they use. P90s or something?) but now a few bullets have been seen to take down wraith

things change. but even so, writers could drop a hint that Michael or the baby have something to do with the gift
Only the Wraith can still take several clips and the Goa'uld thing was explained:
They started using bullet-piercing armor.

This, this was just a plot hole.

Ruffles
October 22nd, 2008, 10:47 AM
Often times in stargate things that are established in the first several episodes are forgotten as they are too restricting.

For example remember the early episodes of SG1? Bullets would bounce off the armor of Jaffa warriors.
What about SGA? the wraith could withstand a whole clips from guns (i forgot which firearms they use. P90s or something?) but now a few bullets have been seen to take down wraith

things change. but even so, writers could drop a hint that Michael or the baby have something to do with the gift

You make a very good point here. I always hesitate calling the unexplained a plot hole because there might be an explanation later. However, in that case, I would have appreciated a shocked glance by Sheppard, Ronon, or Rodney at Teyla with a question of "spidey sense on the blink?" or something rather than glossing over the fact like it hasn't been a prominent part of the show for the past 4 years.

jenks
October 22nd, 2008, 12:49 PM
This wasn't a normal culling, normally there'd be thousands of Wraith in orbit, this time only a few came through the gate, maybe Teyla's senses aren't that fine tuned?

APFW
October 22nd, 2008, 07:56 PM
Teyla lost her ability to sense the wraith when the writers stopped writing for her. ;)

Too True!!:confused::confused::confused:

Brain_Child
October 22nd, 2008, 11:36 PM
Only the Wraith can still take several clips and the Goa'uld thing was explained:
They started using bullet-piercing armor.

This, this was just a plot hole.

Hmm didnt know that. but anyway, there are still things like this in stargate. The wraith are going down easier compared to their toughness in season 1, i remember that they needed 3 shots of a stunner (or Ronons stun gun, i forget which) to be knocked out. in the last episode Carson knocked out wraith continually with a single shot.

Saying this is the only instance is short sighted. if i even rewatch them all again ill send you a list of more finer points that the writers never really explained.


You make a very good point here. I always hesitate calling the unexplained a plot hole because there might be an explanation later. However, in that case, I would have appreciated a shocked glance by Sheppard, Ronon, or Rodney at Teyla with a question of "spidey sense on the blink?" or something rather than glossing over the fact like it hasn't been a prominent part of the show for the past 4 years.

Indeed, that would have been small but perfect


Teyla lost her ability to sense the wraith when the writers stopped writing for her.


Too True!!

<mod snip>

g.o.d
October 23rd, 2008, 08:51 AM
This wasn't a normal culling, normally there'd be thousands of Wraith in orbit, this time only a few came through the gate, maybe Teyla's senses aren't that fine tuned?

yeah, she doesn't have right firmware