PDA

View Full Version : Were those weapons really Canon?



haloplayer
October 18th, 2008, 01:20 AM
The Human Villagers in this Episode were using Earth based weapons in this episode. They were American 19th century Lever Action Rifles. But there is a problem with this. Where did they get the blue prints?

I dont like it when the Producers use Earth Based Weapons as Props (tend to be Old Earth Weapons) for Humans on other Worlds who have had no Contact with Earth and do not know there tech.

Does anyone agree with me on this?

It does take a sense of realism out of it.

This reminds me of a SG-1 episode called "Icon". In this episode SG-1 come to a human world in which there is a war going on. And some of these Human Military on this world were armed with M1-Garands (American WW2 weapon for the uninformed). Now this comes up with the question were did these people get Blue Prints of the Garand? After all we see them use the weapon so it must be Canon. I disagree.

I think that whenever Humans living on other planets (not the Earth ones, even though all humans have ancestry from Earth) have Earth based Weapons, they would either have been given to them by the SGC or stolen from them (which is unlikely).

Its like Sheppard and his team come across a world in which these humans are armed with Civil War era Single shot Rifles or AK-47's. There has to be an explanation for this.

It would work if the SGC allied with a certain Human Faction in the Pegasus Galaxy, and they decided to give the Blue Prints of say the M16-A1 (older version of the M16, Vietnam era), then i would see no problem with Non-Earth humans waltzing around with Older M16's.

However there was no Explanation for the Villagers in Outsiders using Lever Action Earth based, 19th century Rifles.

The Producers should do what George Lucas did with Star Wars. In the Original Trilogy many of the futuristic blasters (props) were actually created based off of Real world Weapons, Im sure the Producers of SGA could have taken a Earth based weapon and change it up a bit to look different.

Does anyone agree with me on this?
------------------------------------


Maybe the Villagers in Outsiders built a time machine and somehow got to Earth, went back in time and stole some 19th Century weapons from the Wild Wild West.

OR

They teleported a few people to Earth and decided to buy Some Old Earth Rifles from some Gun Collectors.
/sarcasm

fumblesmcstupid
October 18th, 2008, 01:53 AM
I just laughed when he got his shotgun or whatever it is.

If the Wraith left people alone and didn't keep them in the dark ages..the PG would have Ronon blasters and phasers.

I still laugh over the fact that EVERYONE speaks English!

P-90_177
October 18th, 2008, 02:05 AM
The Human Villagers in this Episode were using Earth based weapons in this episode. They were American 19th century Lever Action Rifles. But there is a problem with this. Where did they get the blue prints?

I dont like it when the Producers use Earth Based Weapons as Props (tend to be Old Earth Weapons) for Humans on other Worlds who have had no Contact with Earth and do not know there tech.

Does anyone agree with me on this?

It does take a sense of realism out of it.

This reminds me of a SG-1 episode called "Icon". In this episode SG-1 come to a human world in which there is a war going on. And some of these Human Military on this world were armed with M1-Garands (American WW2 weapon for the uninformed). Now this comes up with the question were did these people get Blue Prints of the Garand? After all we see them use the weapon so it must be Canon. I disagree.

I think that whenever Humans living on other planets (not the Earth ones, even though all humans have ancestry from Earth) have Earth based Weapons, they would either have been given to them by the SGC or stolen from them (which is unlikely).

Its like Sheppard and his team come across a world in which these humans are armed with Civil War era Single shot Rifles or AK-47's. There has to be an explanation for this.

It would work if the SGC allied with a certain Human Faction in the Pegasus Galaxy, and they decided to give the Blue Prints of say the M16-A1 (older version of the M16, Vietnam era), then i would see no problem with Non-Earth humans waltzing around with Older M16's.

However there was no Explanation for the Villagers in Outsiders using Lever Action Earth based, 19th century Rifles.

The Producers should do what George Lucas did with Star Wars. In the Original Trilogy many of the futuristic blasters (props) were actually created based off of Real world Weapons, Im sure the Producers of SGA could have taken a Earth based weapon and change it up a bit to look different.

Does anyone agree with me on this?
------------------------------------


Maybe the Villagers in Outsiders built a time machine and somehow got to Earth, went back in time and stole some 19th Century weapons from the Wild Wild West.

OR

They teleported a few people to Earth and decided to buy Some Old Earth Rifles from some Gun Collectors.
/sarcasm

Icon was the only episode I was really bothered by it since it was clear they were M1s. I haven't seen outsiders yet either so I can't speak for these 19th century rifles. It's better to tray and ignore them. I would prefer if they came up with their own props but that can be quite expensive. Plus they did all the Genii weapons and they seemed quite happy to just use those a lot of the time. I think it would be fine if they used more unusual weapons that people don't recognise so much. But again there's a limit to what they can use.

g.o.d
October 18th, 2008, 02:39 AM
Firefly....TPTW are really desperate that they have to use other shows as an inspiration :lol:

Womble
October 18th, 2008, 05:31 AM
I didn't really mind the fact of them using familiar guns in and of itself. Sure, some tweaking of the furniture could be nice, but the working principles of lever, pump or semi-auto action is not quite rocket science, it stands to reason that they could be independently re-created in another galaxy.

BUT what I don't buy is an isolated village making its own repeater guns. Flintlocks- maybe, although even that is pretty tricky. They had to get their guns from somewhere, an industrial society with relatively advanced knowledge of metallurgy. Not to mention that the Wraith would hardly be content with the idea of Pegasus folks walking around with locally produced Winchesters.

Which brings me to another question: when the renegade villagers led the Wraiths into the cave- HOW COME THEY WERE STILL CARRYING THOSE GUNS? What kind of cretin of a Wraith commander would tolerate half a dozen armed humans standing around him?

Ouroboros
October 18th, 2008, 05:48 AM
Considering I don't think any of the villiagers even fired his rifle so there's no need for it to even be operatable this just smacks of laziness.

How hard would it really have been to chop up some replica guns to at least look alien if not high tech? They did it for the Geni afterall.

The6thRace
October 18th, 2008, 05:49 AM
Perhaps the wraith commander was afraid that asking them to relinquish their weapons might push them to not showing where the refugees are. In any case, the guns didn't bother me too much, but then again I don't really know old guns. If they were P90s I would have definitely been irked. And if I knew that gun by reputation, I probably would have been a lot more critical.

HunGripen
October 18th, 2008, 06:02 AM
It's only because the budget. It would be too expensive to make a new weapon for every episode.

Yeah and in Icon they used AK-47s too.

Ed
October 18th, 2008, 06:04 AM
they should just have all PG humans use wraith, genii, satedan and maybee travler wepons those would all make sence

MCH
October 18th, 2008, 06:05 AM
Perhaps the wraith commander was afraid that asking them to relinquish their weapons might push them to not showing where the refugees are. In any case, the guns didn't bother me too much, but then again I don't really know old guns. If they were P90s I would have definitely been irked. And if I knew that gun by reputation, I probably would have been a lot more critical.

While we know that Wraith can be killed maybe the Commander has so much comtempt for humans that he didn't think the humans weapons where worth worring about.

MCH

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 09:40 AM
I also found it funny that they didn't try to fight the Wraith when they had *that* laying around!

Instead they took the guns and turned it on their own people. Lol.

haloplayer
October 18th, 2008, 11:57 AM
I also found it funny that they didn't try to fight the Wraith when they had *that* laying around!

Instead they took the guns and turned it on their own people. Lol.

Actually the gun was used in the Episode. Near the ending scene in which Sheppard, and his team are fighting off the Wraith at the Gate, there is a scene of a good Villager shooting his Rifle, and reloading it just like a lever Action, i believed he killed a wraith.

Womble
October 18th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Perhaps the wraith commander was afraid that asking them to relinquish their weapons might push them to not showing where the refugees are.
But not afraid to get shot in the back? Puh-lease.

Ncc-72452
October 18th, 2008, 02:07 PM
The weapons I saw looked like Winchesters and other weapons comparable to mid- to late 1800s. We know the Genii have weapons tech in the era of WWI to WWII. Maybe they sold off their old weapons (like the US does) to some of their trading partners and allies. I know it was never established that the Genii knew these guys, but maybe the weapons were sold and resold across the PG. Otherwise, I agree with the others that a single village shouldn't have the manufacturing capabilities.

Ripple in Space
October 18th, 2008, 03:02 PM
Yeah and in Icon they used AK-47s too.

Um, it's clearly because The Trust sells them to them :rolleyes:

section33
October 18th, 2008, 04:44 PM
Considering I don't think any of the villiagers even fired his rifle so there's no need for it to even be operatable this just smacks of laziness.

How hard would it really have been to chop up some replica guns to at least look alien if not high tech? They did it for the Geni afterall.

well it didn't take much effort the Genii weapons were reused props from the film Timecop.
A lot of the weapons that show up are reused props from films like he guns from blade trinity have showed up in SG1 and SGA.

Zamboni
October 18th, 2008, 09:29 PM
What's really the problem is not why they have Earth guns, but rather the fact that there were only three very neat looking shotguns that were obviously machined, while the rest of the mod had sickles...

Seriously, there should not be so much gap between technology levels of the weapons. If some of them had shotguns, then the rest should have hand guns.

If some of them had single loading rifles, then some of them should have high power crossbows.

It's like seeing a dolphin pulling out a phaser pistol for no reason...

Murzin
October 20th, 2008, 01:01 AM
i try to keep it along the lines of:

sga uses the weapons familiar to us so we know roughly whats supposed to happen with the weapon

they are not really supposed to be those weapons, but they function like it, and if they spent the time/money making new "style" of weapons for every culture, it would get really expensive, so they just use human ideal weapons so you the audience knows what to expect when the trigger gets pulled.

jenks
October 20th, 2008, 05:53 AM
What's really the problem is not why they have Earth guns, but rather the fact that there were only three very neat looking shotguns that were obviously machined, while the rest of the mod had sickles...

Seriously, there should not be so much gap between technology levels of the weapons. If some of them had shotguns, then the rest should have hand guns.

If some of them had single loading rifles, then some of them should have high power crossbows.

It's like seeing a dolphin pulling out a phaser pistol for no reason...

Why? Where's the logic there?

Zamboni
October 20th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Why? Where's the logic there?The logic being that personal armaments evolve from less powerful to more powerful. Shotguns are much more powerful than hand guns. Therefore it's unlikely for a society to produce only 3 shotguns, no hand guns, and the rest are armed with sickles. It's too great a technological leap.

jenks
October 21st, 2008, 05:23 AM
The logic being that personal armaments evolve from less powerful to more powerful. Shotguns are much more powerful than hand guns. Therefore it's unlikely for a society to produce only 3 shotguns, no hand guns, and the rest are armed with sickles. It's too great a technological leap.

But they're living in a pre-industrial village, a lot of them are probably farmers, surely it stands to reason that they're more likely to have shotguns than hand guns?

Zamboni
October 21st, 2008, 04:34 PM
But they're living in a pre-industrial village, a lot of them are probably farmers, surely it stands to reason that they're more likely to have shotguns than hand guns?Pre-industrial, yet they have the ability to smooth bore shotgun barrels, distill chemicals at sufficient quality and quantity to produce standardized shells, and enough metallurgical equipments to manufacture hair triggers?

Even humans kept using muskets for quite a while after the industrial revolution. A village of 700 with no sign of manufacturing industry can produce three modern-looking shotguns? I think not.

jnadreth
October 21st, 2008, 04:36 PM
They may have traded for them?????

Zamboni
October 21st, 2008, 10:05 PM
They may have traded for them?????That seems like the only realistic explanation.

However, one has to wonder why the village elders would allow such lop-sided distribution of destructive power in his village. Three shotguns in a pre-industrialized town and everyone else has farming equipments?

That's bad political administration right there...

Col.Foley
October 21st, 2008, 10:14 PM
The only thing that bothers me about the weapons in Icon, is the fact they had AKs, and M1s in the same unit.

haloplayer
October 22nd, 2008, 10:46 AM
Why are you guys calling those guns shotguns? There not there Rifles.