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GateWorld
October 17th, 2008, 12:24 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/512.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/512.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/512.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">OUTSIDERS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 512</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The Wraith arrive in a village where Dr. Beckett is working, and demand that the locals turn over a group of refugees who survived the Hoffan plague -- or the entire village will be obliterated.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/512.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teslan
October 17th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Kudos to McCullough, I really liked this one.

That ending wasunexpected. All the traitors got what they deserved though in the end. I did however expect the Beckett twist. McKay+Beckett scene on the hive ship was just like old times.

Funny, all the episodes I thought would have been my favorites, havent quite met my expectations. On the other hand, all the episodes I was not looking forward to, Ive ended up enjoying.

Pandora's_Box
October 17th, 2008, 06:08 PM
That? Was an outstanding episode!

Character drama. Action. Brilliant performances.

Now that's the kind of episode that does Carson Beckett justice.

The6thRace
October 17th, 2008, 06:10 PM
There were a few funny moments in this, and the 'Volkswagen' comment was pretty hilarious. All and all, its good to see the wraith doing what they do best, although their foot soldiers are laughable. Like 6 of them were shooting at Beckett and he took out most of them with the stunner. Nice work for a human Doctor. If the wraith ever invade Earth we'll just send med students after them.

Vala_M
October 17th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Good to see Beckett again!

Vala,

supersoldier34
October 17th, 2008, 06:13 PM
One of the better episodes. It had good Carson/Rodney moments.

gatechick
October 17th, 2008, 06:17 PM
I enjoyed this one. It wasn't my favorite, but it had a nice old style stargate feel to it. Would be nice to see a few more like this before the season ends.

That one wraith on the ship had some funky looking teeth. Like a beaver :)

Was it me, or do the actors look like they are not as into the show as before. With the exception of Rodney character, who seems to be on, even he is kinda...blah. Maybe it is just me, but things feel kinda off. The acting just seems so disheartened. Maybe I am not explaining well.

prion
October 17th, 2008, 06:19 PM
I thought the episode was okay. Reminded me a bit of "Red Sky" on SG1, but, the Beckett-McKay moments were good, particularly in the dart (snort). And for a split second, I thought, oh great, they're going to kill Beckett again, but when he didn't start aging and they went to commercial, I figured, wait, he's been infected...

Vala_M
October 17th, 2008, 06:21 PM
As I said, good to see Beckett again. That episode was very boring during the beginning. It got interesting around time the Wraith deal thing was mentioned.

I am however glad that we did get to see a followup on the Wraith-Hoffan drug problem. How did they track the survivors to that planet initially?

What tipped off the Wraith to increase the guards at the gate? Did I miss something there?

Beckett and McKay on the hive ship was a funny part! I don't think we've ever had an episode where the captured were the non-fighting types. At least not compared to Sheppard or Ronon I mean.

I'm glad that Beckett didn't decide to do the Wraith's research. I was figuring that he had the Hoffan drug in his system or he wouldn't have risked himself. I hated that they went to commercial during that part but I knew it was coming.

Is it just me or are they purposely placing the commercials in moments like that more than in the past?

Beckett breaking McKay out was cool. I didn't know that Beckett had that in him, I suspected since "The Kindred" but I'm glad we got to see.

My only complaint about the specific Beckett episodes is that we don't get (at least not more than a few) just regular personal moments of Beckett and Beckett-McKay interactions.

I am getting tired of the village spy who works for the enemy. I know, it's an essential part of the episodes but still I feel like it's getting old.

I liked how they mislead the village leader into giving out info that was actually false. A good way to eliminate the traitors and the Wraith at once!

Beckett and McKay both in the dart together was hillarious! I think that was why the canopy didn't form - a safety issue since both of them together took up too much space for it to form.

Smart of McKay to get them into the buffer and have a program to beam them out at the gate.

Where was Woolsey and Keller in this episode? I know they weren't contracted for all of them but for once, I actually miss them being in the episodes.

Vala,

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 06:24 PM
Kudos to Alan McCullough for delivering a Great Carson episode this season!!!

All I can say it's about Time!!

Wow this episode rocked. It had so many twist and turns, and it really had a dark tone to it. Carson's performance was Superb! His character in this episode showed us why we have grown to love Carson. Well for those who like his character. I liked the action in this episode, there was a lot of activity that kept you interesting. I loved how they tied season one and the newer seasons together as well. I was expecting a B episode but with the characters, action, story, and etc this episode gets an A from me, actually an A + because Carson was excellent in this episode and I have waited for a great Carson episode. His first two were meh for me, especially Whispers.

One final note, I loved how Carson took control while on the Hive. He showed some true courage and took a chance that he had the drug from Michael. That was a great character driven moment.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 06:25 PM
That? Was an outstanding episode!

Character drama. Action. Brilliant performances.

Now that's the kind of episode that does Carson Beckett justice.

This episode had everything of a typical solid Atlantis episode. Character driven, good story not boring, and a lot of twists. It also had a very dark tone to it. A lot about human Sacrifice and betryal. Alan is trully a great writer when it comes to the twist and turn eps.

Pandora's_Box
October 17th, 2008, 06:27 PM
All of his scenes were great. From the "doing no harm" speech, to standing up to the Wraith commander, to his humourous banter with Rodney as they evaded capture by the Wraith.

And I don't even like Carson, but I'm glad we finally got to see some great character moments from him.

Pharaoh Atem
October 17th, 2008, 06:28 PM
and once again i forget the damn scifi channle changed the time :ronon:

Pandora's_Box
October 17th, 2008, 06:29 PM
This episode had everything of a typical solid Atlantis episode. Character driven, good story not boring, and a lot of twists. It also had a very dark tone to it. A lot about human Sacrifice and betryal. Alan is trully a great writer when it comes to the twist and turn eps.

Definitely!

I can see the strings that are tying all the episodes together this season. Sheppard's decision to sacrifice those men to save the rest of the villagers is a great lead in to Inquisition next week.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 06:29 PM
All of his scenes were great. From the "doing no harm" speech, to standing up to the Wraith commander, to his humourous banter with Rodney as they evaded capture by the Wraith.

And I don't even like Carson, but I'm glad we finally got to see some great character moments from him.

The episode even had some great funny comic relief lines!

Ronon: (After Teyla says about them stunning the other villagers)But it was Fun!

Mckay: It's not a volkswagon!! :lol:

Earthgate Ricky
October 17th, 2008, 06:30 PM
I am glad that Beckett/McKay duo is best in this episode! Beckett knew that he put himself on test to see if he is toxin to wraiths' feeding and his test is successful. (Horray!). I love Rodney's face when they tried to fit in a dart. ( I want to see recap of them!)

Rodney/Carson duo own this episode!

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 06:30 PM
Definitely!

I can see the strings that are tying all the episodes together this season. Sheppard's decision to sacrifice those men to save the rest of the villagers is a great lead in to Inquisition next week.

They had one of my favorite dramatic scenes in the preview, something that was likely one of the powerful moments for Season 4. So I am hoping for a really strong dramatic episode next week.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 06:31 PM
I am glad that Beckett/McKay duo is best in this episode! Beckett knew that he put himself on test to see if he is toxin to wraiths' feeding and his test is successful. (Horray!). I love Rodney's face when they tried to fit in a dart.

Rodney/Carson duo own this episode!

One of my expectations was the return of the Rodney/Carson duo. Boy, did it ever deliver! Excellent!!!

photocat
October 17th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Brilliant Carson/Rodney episode! LOVED their interaction. Great dialogue with an old Stargate feel. :)

jelgate
October 17th, 2008, 07:29 PM
This felt like a classic Stargate episode. Team goes to planet. Team gets in trouble and must escape. I like seeing the vigilantee group. That isn't a common occurence in Stargate. Some people like the Sheppard-McKay banter but I like the Beckett-McKay banter. I also enjoyed seeing Beckett wresting morality on helping the Wraith with the Hoffan drug. A low point was when the Wraith trying to feed on Clonkett. Sheppard blowing up the mine was hilarious. Overall an enjoyable episode

I apologize to those who like to read my reviews but I lost 90 min of typing when my internet browser decided to exit out.:(

the fifth man
October 17th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Tonight's episode was really good. Much better than I thought it might be. Seeing Carson again is always great, but he really shined in this one. I miss him being around more.

jelgate
October 17th, 2008, 07:33 PM
and once again i forget the damn scifi channle changed the time :ronon:

Would you like me to send a reminder PM:P

dasNdanger
October 17th, 2008, 07:37 PM
I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das

The6thRace
October 17th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Not much discussion going on tonight actually. Maybe some people were so disturbed the murderous Sheppard that they vowed to have nothing to do with StarGate ever again. Of course, thats a worse case scenario. Still, its not very active tonight like it is for other new episodes.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 07:43 PM
I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das

Fun? I thought it added a lot of darkness to Sheppard's character, continuing the events of "Miller's Crossing". I was like Wow, collateral damage! It was not a happy wow, it was a wow this show has gotten dark and NO, its not the lighting on the set.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Not much discussion going on tonight actually. Maybe some people were so disturbed the murderous Sheppard that they vowed to have nothing to do with StarGate ever again. Of course, thats a worse case scenario. Still, its not very active tonight like it is for other new episodes.

The new time splits the country. People in the west don't get the show aired until 11pm EST now. I believe they used to get it at 10pm est like the east coasters. I could be wrong though. But I also noticed lighter traffic for "The Lost Tribe" compared to earlier eps this season.

the fifth man
October 17th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Yeah, it was a dark move by Sheppard. A necessary one though, maybe. Personally, I don't think it was easy for him.

SgaIsBad
October 17th, 2008, 07:48 PM
Have to disagree with previous posters. This episode was very subpar.

1. The Wraith have been weakened so much they are a joke. Would the Wraith negotiate to get Carson to help? NO!! They would start murdering the villagers one by one. The Wraith have so become the Borg,

2. The Wraith dying from feeding on Carson. So obvious that Carson had the Hoffan drug therapy!!! And wouldn't the Wraith be a little scared to feed on Carson when he was one of the people that developed the Hofffan drug!!!

3. The Wraith voice when he died after feeding on Carson. He sounded like a ******!!

4. SGA has no direction in storytelling. Last year we were supposed to care about the Replicators, this year the Asgard make a come back. What about the city itself!!! I guess TPTB just think they can keep making up hidden rooms.

5. Waste to have Woosley on as commander. Fans had the same complaint about Amanda Tapping. At crucial moments the leaders of Atlantis are MIA. TPTB should have learned their lesson after Season 4, and just let John be the Interm Director of Atlantis.

Overall, the show deserved to be canceled with this kind of quality. And I am very happy that Amanda Tapping is on Sanctuary. Sanctuary actually has modern up to date storytelling. SGA is like Dora the Explorer, compared to Sanctuary.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 07:48 PM
Yeah, it was a dark move by Sheppard. A necessary one though, maybe. Personally, I don't think it was easy for him.

I know people said that the writer's would forget Sheppard's dark moment in "Miller's Crossing". Well they didn't, imo.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 07:50 PM
Have to disagree with previous posters. This episode was very subpar.



Well with a handle name of "SgaIsBad" I don't expect much glee from you on this show to begin with, so there.

jelgate
October 17th, 2008, 07:51 PM
The new time splits the country. People in the west don't get the show aired until 11pm EST now. I believe they used to get it at 10pm est like the east coasters. I could be wrong though. But I also noticed lighter traffic for "The Lost Tribe" compared to earlier eps this season.

I would say it more due to the forum speed. Pages take longer to load because of that stupid ad. Not everyone is addictied/patient as us.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 07:52 PM
I would say it more due to the forum speed. Pages take longer to load because of that stupid ad. Not everyone is addictied/patient as us.

Yeah you are probably right. I have Cable and my pages are still taking some time to load.

the fifth man
October 17th, 2008, 07:52 PM
Well with a handle name of "SgaIsBad" I don't expect much glee from you on this show to begin with, so there.

Agreed!:D

the fifth man
October 17th, 2008, 07:54 PM
I would say it more due to the forum speed. Pages take longer to load because of that stupid ad. Not everyone is addictied/patient as us.

I just turned the ads off the other day. Pages load much faster now.

SgaIsBad
October 17th, 2008, 07:56 PM
Well with a handle name of "SgaIsBad" I don't expect much glee from you on this show to begin with, so there.

Beggars can't be choosers. With 1.1 ratings this season, you should appreciate anyone cares to watch and give feedback- not just the positive viewers count.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Beggars can't be choosers. With 1.1 ratings this season, you should appreciate anyone cares to watch and give feedback- not just the positives count.

Back to the ratings talk, eh? Where did you get a 1.1 from? Because I don't recall seeing that number for the season average. Anyway, there are other issues in life to worry about than a ratings for a SCI FI show that has already been deemed cancelled. I would just like to come on here, discuss the aspects of the show and not have to worry about people trolling and trying to get a rise out of people.

A simple, "I did not care for this episode and it was below par" would of been sufficent, but no, you had to twist the knife in a little further by reminding people that the show is cancelled and you feel it deserves to be cancelled because it is like Dora the explorer. You my friend stepped over the line.

The6thRace
October 17th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Don't feed the trolls guys. ;)

Reiko
October 17th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Haven't seen the episode yet (don't get it as fast as you guys in my part of the world), but this seems like one that I'll just take it as it is. Rawr.

And in my mind, S4 and S5 will always be subpar but ... *shuts up*

Pandora's_Box
October 17th, 2008, 08:10 PM
I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das

No, seriously. I don't know how many times I can ask you this. Well, probably a ton and you'll just continue to ignore it, but I'll say it again because I am nothing if not disgustingly stubborn...

Was he just supposed to let all those villagers die instead?

Reiko
October 17th, 2008, 08:12 PM
At least I'm already getting a sense of character complexity and depth just by watching this debate. Things are, surprsingly, looking up. :)

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 08:13 PM
At least I'm already getting a sense of character complexity and depth just by watching this debate. Things are, surprsingly, looking up. :)

Not to sound too assertive or demanding, lol. But I think you are going to enjoy this episode. It raised a lot of moral issues, and I thought Carson was excellent. It also gave a lot of that classic Carson and Rodney chemisty. :)

Xicer
October 17th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Not a big fan of this episode, completely predictable and just boring. I feel like I've seen it 10 times before.

Pandora's_Box
October 17th, 2008, 08:13 PM
At least I'm already getting a sense of character complexity and depth just by watching this debate. Things are, surprsingly, looking up. :)

There's awesome Carson stuff so that should make you happy. :D

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 08:16 PM
Not a big fan of this episode, completely predictable and just boring. I feel like I've seen it 10 times before.

May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me. :)

lirenel
October 17th, 2008, 08:18 PM
May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me. :)

I was expecting an ambush personally. Killing the villagers was...cold.

I did like the episode though. It was a standard one, but still good. And it was nice seeing Carson again.

Briangate78
October 17th, 2008, 08:20 PM
I was expecting an ambush personally. Killing the villagers was...cold.

I did like the episode though. It was a standard one, but still good. And it was nice seeing Carson again.

I think the Carson and Mckay chemistry sold the episode. I have to agree that killing the villagers who did betray the other ones was rather well I guess cold-blooded is the word.

Xicer
October 17th, 2008, 08:28 PM
May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me. :)

The second I saw Jervis I knew he was gonna be dead by the end of the episode, and the looks Sheppard was giving him weren't too friendly either (can't say I blame him). I knew either Sheppard or the Wraith would end up killing him in the end.

A lot of the other events were pretty predictable. By the time the Wraith arrived, it was pretty obvious that some of the villagers would want to get rid of Balarans, and the others including the Atlantis crew would do the opposite. At the same time at least one of the Balarans would probably be thinking the same thing, which is what led to Rodney and Carson getting caught. I knew Carson had the Hoffan drug inside of him by the time Rodney noticed Carson knew something. The rest was pretty standard, team escapes, bad guys die, villagers are saved and get relocated. Honestly I just feel like I'm watching the same episode over and over again.

Reiko
October 17th, 2008, 08:31 PM
There's awesome Carson stuff so that should make you happy. :D

I'm sure it will. But I'll still have to see for myself! :)

Daniela
October 17th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Those few traitors had to die in order to save the village and the Balarans. What part of that don't people understand. Of course it was a sad and unfortunate decision, but it had to happen. No need to cry puppy tears.

star47
October 17th, 2008, 09:31 PM
I was pretty shocked at first with Shephard blowing up the cave with Jervis and his men in it, along with the Wraith, but then I have to remember that if things had gone Jervis' way, they would have found all the Balarans in the cave who would then have been killed by the Wraith, so maybe it's a case of "what goes around, comes around". He certainly didn't seem to suffer any guilty conscience about leading the Wraith to kill a group of innocent people.

Ruffles
October 17th, 2008, 09:33 PM
I found Outsiders to be interesting but not as good as I'd hoped for. I didn't have any particular expectations - all I knew about it was from last week's preview.

Good stuff:

* Carson - FANTASTIC here. I think one thing this ep showed was the difference 2 years with Michael made. In Duet, Carson wanted to save the dying Wraith in the shot down dart. Here, he purposefully kills the commander - not an ounce of remorse or guilt in his actions. He has shades of the man he was before (clone or not, the things that make him Carson - DNA and memories - are there) - the gentle teasing of McKay especially in the end scene as they head to the mess hall, the gentleness of his care for patients, the guilt he feels for helping Michael. But he is not the same. Two years as a POW in the hands of a madman have changed him.

* Rodney - S5 Rodney has returned! A capable fighter (Ronon and Teyla thought they needed John AND Rodney to fight the Wraith at the gate), not panicking in the Wraith cell or when Sheppard asks him to risk even more by disabling the hive's weapons, taking the ribbing from his friends (funny stories) without getting defensive. He's still a genius, still snarky, but calmer. Good to have you back! Speaking of which...

* TEAM! Was that a team I saw, well, briefly before they were split up?

* dealing with the fallout of the Hoffan drug and Michael. Good job of follow through.

* Sheppard's solution. Not because I thought those people deserved to die. Not because I thought it was the only way to defeat the Wraith. But because it is true to his character. He closed the shield against the Genii. He had a conversation with Wallace. He used the nature of Jervis and his men against them. He didn't force those men to go to the Wraith or to go into the mines. But the men threw their lot in with the Wraith and paid the price. And the villager leader was in on it. The look on his face after the cavern blew was not of outrage for being tricked, but of guilt for betraying his people.


Not so good

* When did Teyla stop being able to sense the Wraith? They just waltzed into town without her saying a word.

* I didn't really get interested until McKay and Beckett were captured. I appreciated the storyline, but I would have preferred seeing more team instead of all the exposition by the villagers.

* The first group given to the Wraith including Novo (?) just disappeared. Did the Wraith kill them? Did they escape? Were they taken to the hive?


I did find the ep enjoyable, but, like last week, I was a bit disappointed. I wanted to see more team, to be more emotionally involved, to learn something new.

Next week looks great!

aboleyn24
October 17th, 2008, 09:40 PM
I really seriously disliked this episode and I am usually a SGA cheerleader.

Lets start with the man sized plot hole that had Teyla forgetting her Wraith sense and not being alerted to the presence of the Wraith until the villager screamed and Sheppard helpfully said Wraith after we've seen them incase the rest of the team forgot what they looked like.

I found the entire episode predictable. Not because I saw any spoilers because I've been doing a really good job at avoiding all things spoilery.

I will say that I did like that both sides, the original villager and the refugees had people willing to do anything to save either themselves or the village in general.

I just didn't like all of the contrived plots, starting with Teyla's early detection alarm being ignored, to Carson-clone deciding to go and get more supplies so that he and Rodney could be Wraith bait..... again. The additional Wraith showing up at the gate just at the right time to foil back up also seemed been there done that to me. I suspected that Carson had the Wraith immunity early on and knew what he had planned the moment he refused to tell anything to Rodney.

I also knew Jervis was being set up. It was obvious to me that the other guy was lying. As for Sheppard being responsible for his death, well Jervis had free will. He didn't have to take the bait. He was more than willing to lead the Wraith to a bunch of sick people. I know he really thought he was doing what was right, but he was a bit of a tool.

TraK
October 18th, 2008, 01:46 AM
i thought that at the beginning of this episode it would be boring and unoriginal. It had a similar premise to previous episodes.

However by the second half it started to become exiting and new, from the point where Carson kills the wraith leader. The end was even more surprising. i havent seen a wraith battle against the whole team (most of them anyway) for a long time, and it was nice to see mass wraith killing.

But wtf Sheppard? he killed those rebel dudes along with the wraith. that was so uncalled for. Not one of the best episodes but it was a quite entertaining

Puddle Splasher
October 18th, 2008, 01:53 AM
An ep. in the mold of SG1's "Line In The Sand" and a great one for character development (Carson, Sheppard). Started out looking like another predictable plot... then the ethical twist (C4+mine=Wraith/Jervis crushed). Then again, are we positive that it was Sheppard's idea and not Elson's idea? What was being suggested by that long stare by Elson?

Funny line for me was (and I apologize, I'll have to paraphrase) when the Wraith on Hive becoming aware of the explosion saying, "There has been an seismic disturbance on the planet's surface..." I know it wasn't intended to be funny but for some reason it caught me odd/funny. That Carson/Beckett banter was great too!

Disliked rifles that Jervis' mob used which were CLEARLY Earth-based - what's up with that!? You do not get a day off designing new props just because you came up with a novel new alien suit in the same season.

I know the weapon couldn't have been advanced but design something "foreign" enough not to arrest my attention from the story at hand... some semi-advanced slingshot for all I care.

But my biggest source of confusion is with Beckett... I cannot for the life of me remember anything in "Whispers" (or any other ep.) where it's mentioned/suggested that Beckett is back to Atlantis to stay. I know he went to Earth, then came back (Whispers), but I just don't remember it being established that he was still going to continue working, in some capacity, with the SGA expedition.

Maybe one of you can refresh my memory?

david2708
October 18th, 2008, 03:48 AM
Another been there, done that, medicore filler episode. What a shock!
What a slow, drawn out death this show is having.

CazzBlade
October 18th, 2008, 04:02 AM
I really enjoyed this ep :D Good old fashioned team ep :D

To be honest never thought of Teyla not sensing the Wraith until I read it on here so it didn't bother me.

Loved the set up of the village, it been soooo long since we've actually got involved in the dealings of another civilisation, I really enjoyed the new characters from the village :).

The bit when Teyla scolded Ronon for stunning the villagers was so funny :P

Carson was fantastic! I've felt a bit lacklustre about clone!Carson but I thought he was great in the ep. He was in it for medical reason *cough*unlike certain other doctors at times ;)*cough*. I loved it when he took out the wraith commander! I thought 'oh god they're killing Carson again' then I thought Shep would get one of the Wraith to give his life back and then I realised he wasn't ageing so duh must have the hoffen drug :P

And I totally didn't figure out that the village leader wasn't betraying them :o When he went to the cell I was like 'what's he doing??? I thought he was a good guy! I liked him *pouts*', I didn't suss that it was a set up until the wraith got to the mines and the villages weren't there.

Loved the end too, with Shep rolling away from the beam and his concern when he thought Teyla was going to be taken up :D

JackHarkness_Hot
October 18th, 2008, 04:38 AM
I love this episode for numerous reasons -

1) Beckett and McKay back together again horray!
2) Beckett the sweet soul and you can see he has really grown since (1x01) "Rising".
3) No Keller involved (what a breath of fresh air).
4) Had a classic brilliant Stargate storyline going on with twists and turns.
5) We got Teyla and she spoke for more than 10 seconds.

What I didn't quite like was -

1) The ending obviously talking about McKay's relationship with Keller.
2) The Wraith spoke too much amongst themselves, they're telepathic remember?

What was missing -

1) I reckon was Dr. Weir, for me it felt like it lacked this wee thing which I determined to be was Dr. Weir. Her essence, I can see her radio-ing to Sheppard for an update once Teyla dialled the gate and her going,

"John, get those people back here, we got medics and defence ready, we're waiting for you!"

Then the episode closing with Weir looking at John in her office with her "I don't like it but I can see why you did it"-look once she found out how he got the leader of the village to trick Jervis.

All in all - this episode was brilliant, better than last week's disappointing episode.

FoolishPleasure
October 18th, 2008, 05:02 AM
I only watched this episode because there was no Keller and we got Carson back.

The Carson/McKay banter made me miss Carson much more, and realize just how crummy Keller is. Whiny Keller and her love life can't match the charisma of Carson.

The Carson/McKay scenes were great. The rest was boring. It was hard to stay awake at times.

trekie
October 18th, 2008, 05:21 AM
I think it was a good episode overall, not the 'I'll watch again right away' kind, but still good.

So, the episode started out a little slow for me, but after Beckett and McKay got captured it become more fast-paced.

And that brings us to the two-men commando of McKay and Beckett on the hive, which was awesome by definition. That's what I missed in the previous Beckett episodes this season. He finally had a chance to really shine alongside McKay. I don't only mean the banter but the ethical aspects of the story with the Hoffan drug. So we got both the drama and the comedy.

Speaking of comedy, you just had to love the boys marching through the hive ship like they've owned the place. Okay, they might haven't been that confident, fine, they haven't been at all. But still, you had to love that they've tried.:)


I was expecting an ambush personally. Killing the villagers was...cold.

Yeah, me too. And to be honest I wasn't too keen on it. I understand that it seemed the only way to go at the moment and I really didn't feel sorry for them. But what bothered me about it is that Sheppard didn't remotely seem conflicted about blowing them up, while the leader guy was obviously feeling guilty beside him. It wasn't Miller's Crossing's dark-Sheppard for me, it was more like he didn't care, which is just not very Sheppard like. Although I could have read his expression wrong in that scene, so I don't know...


And I totally didn't figure out that the village leader wasn't betraying them :o When he went to the cell I was like 'what's he doing??? I thought he was a good guy! I liked him *pouts*', I didn't suss that it was a set up until the wraith got to the mines and the villages weren't there.

Don't feel too bad, I totally bought that too. What I did saw a mile away was the feeding on Carson thing and the final escape of the boys.

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 05:33 AM
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell......I really enjoyed this ep.......FINALLY we get a good ol team ep with all the team playing their part...It's been few and far between the last couple of seasons so i'm glad we got some traditional stargate again :D

Teyla was finally prominent in this ep :D She wasn't used as a babysitter or to hold up the walls :D Alan rocks when it comes to writing Teyla...

I don't normally like McKay all that much but I like him alot better when he's with Carson...They play off each other so well and I can tolerate Rodney better :D

Carson Carson Carson.....My doctor baby issssssssssssss baaaaaaaaaaaaaack....Whispers really sucked for him but he was back to his best here :D Can't we have him back for good :(

Oh and that leader guy.....TBH I didn't see that one coming...I really thought in the end he was gonna betray the others but he didn't....As hard as it probably was for him it was the lesser of twpo evil's...It had to be done..I don't think they had any other choice...

Now this is the kind of ep that makes me very happy....The whole team being involved and not being left behind or left out...I hope we get more eps like this the rest of the season but from the spoilers I very much doubt it which is a real shame because this is what I call real stargate...

Alan is a god :D

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 05:41 AM
At least I'm already getting a sense of character complexity and depth just by watching this debate. Things are, surprsingly, looking up. :)

Don't get your hopes up to much...It won't last ;)


May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me. :)

He sacrificed a few to save many!


Those few traitors had to die in order to save the village and the Balarans. What part of that don't people understand. Of course it was a sad and unfortunate decision, but it had to happen. No need to cry puppy tears.

I agree!



* When did Teyla stop being able to sense the Wraith? They just waltzed into town without her saying a word.


I was gonna post about that then I forgot :o Yeah I noticed that too..>What was with that :confused:


I only watched this episode because there was no Keller and we got Carson back.


Oh that's another reason I loved it...No Keller.....And we got the core team together again :D

Ruffles
October 18th, 2008, 05:47 AM
But my biggest source of confusion is with Beckett... I cannot for the life of me remember anything in "Whispers" (or any other ep.) where it's mentioned/suggested that Beckett is back to Atlantis to stay. I know he went to Earth, then came back (Whispers), but I just don't remember it being established that he was still going to continue working, in some capacity, with the SGA expedition.

Maybe one of you can refresh my memory?

The beginning and ending scenes of Whispers where Rodney talks to Carson while he's packing. Carson isn't going back to Earth. He's going to worlds in Pegasus that have been infected by the Hoffan drug to work on a cure. It's why he suggests to John that Porter would be a good person to have on his research team.

Laura Dove
October 18th, 2008, 07:40 AM
A good ol' episode IMO, strongly established in the SGA storyline (unlike a certain episode last week... :eek:). I love it when the characters take morally ambiguous decisions and the show acknowledges the moral ambiguity.

The episode didn't turn out as well as it could have, though, so I give it only a 4/5. I agree with aboleyn24:


I just didn't like all of the contrived plots, [...] Carson-clone deciding to go and get more supplies so that he and Rodney could be Wraith bait..... again. The additional Wraith showing up at the gate just at the right time to foil back up also seemed been there done that to me.

Also I wondered where the doctor with whom Beckett feel in love in "Whisper" was (but that thought didn't last long), I missed more involvement from Teyla (she was there, but didn't do that much), and I found it a bit hard to believe that Carson could be able to hold off several warriors by himself. Those wraith on the hive were really, really clueless, weren't they?

Just a note about the makeup people who messed up the Commander's neck like with Todd in "Miller's Crossing". But as a character, I loved this Commander. Although he didn't keep his word with the Balaran who allowed him to capture Beckett and McKay, he didn't appear as arrogant and cruel as many other wraith. Too bad he had to die. :(

As much as I enjoyed several episodes this season, I wish there were more episodes like this!

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 08:48 AM
another been there, done that, medicore filler episode. What a shock!
What a slow, drawn out death this show is having.

lol

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 08:55 AM
Definitely!

I can see the strings that are tying all the episodes together this season. Sheppard's decision to sacrifice those men to save the rest of the villagers is a great lead in to Inquisition next week.

It wasn't even meant to be one, because this one was supposed to come AFTER Inquisition.

Now Inquisition leads into The Prodigal, which might be better.

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 08:59 AM
I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das

What das means to say is:

How DARE you think an episode where the Wraith get ONCE AGAIN blown up is 'fun'.

Now, be a grown up girl and don't try to hide it. ;)

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 09:00 AM
A good ol' episode IMO, strongly established in the SGA storyline (unlike a certain episode last week... :eek:). I love it when the characters take morally ambiguous decisions and the show acknowledges the moral ambiguity.

The episode didn't turn out as well as it could have, though, so I give it only a 4/5. I agree with aboleyn24:



Also I wondered where the doctor with whom Beckett feel in love in "Whisper" was (but that thought didn't last long), I missed more involvement from Teyla (she was there, but didn't do that much), and I found it a bit hard to believe that Carson could be able to hold off several warriors by himself. Those wraith on the hive were really, really clueless, weren't they?

Just a note about the makeup people who messed up the Commander's neck like with Todd in "Miller's Crossing". But as a character, I loved this Commander. Although he didn't keep his word with the Balaran who allowed him to capture Beckett and McKay, he didn't appear as arrogant and cruel as many other wraith. Too bad he had to die. :(

As much as I enjoyed several episodes this season, I wish there were more episodes like this!

This was a good solid episode following a epic 2 part mid-season episode. I think this episode even raised the bar with character development. I would five his episode more of a 4.5/5 only because Carson really sold this episode and I waited 12 episodes for a good Carson episode. Although his first one was not too bad. This was night and day compared to "Whispers".

Reiko
October 18th, 2008, 09:04 AM
I conclude that from this convo that (potential) character development still exists? :eek:

Laura Dove
October 18th, 2008, 09:10 AM
This was a good solid episode following a epic 2 part mid-season episode. I think this episode even raised the bar with character development. I would five his episode more of a 4.5/5 only because Carson really sold this episode and I waited 12 episodes for a good Carson episode. Although his first one was not too bad. This was night and day compared to "Whispers".

If I was willing to give half points, I'd be noting on 10 instead. :p I agree with you that character development deserved a 5/5, but the defects plot-wise lower the note a bit.

(I strongly disagree about "The Lost Tribe" being epic, but you already know that. ;))

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 09:12 AM
I conclude that from this convo that (potential) character development still exists? :eek:

LOL, yeah the character moments in this episode were really good and added a lot to the characters and continued their previous developments.

GoSpikey
October 18th, 2008, 09:17 AM
This episode gave me more 'squeeeeeeeeeeeeee' than The Lost Tribe did, to be fair. :o

Mekarri
October 18th, 2008, 09:50 AM
I am rather disturbed by how many people thought it was 'fun' that humans got blown up in that mine. Remember, they were only doing what they thought was right to PROTECT their FAMILIES. It may be morally questionable, but no more questionable than Sheppard just MURDERING them in an explosion!

God. I am suddenly very much afraid of you people...


das
The humans needed to be blow up. I must admit, I really got a little satisfaction in the end. If you collaborate with the enemy then you need to die with the enemy. Also how many time have Sheppard have been bitten on the butt for not taking care of the problem from the begining? Look at how he ended up getting involve with Todd. The guys that was willing to sell innocent people to wraith can't be trusted and they had no remose about sending people to their death.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 18th, 2008, 09:57 AM
Anybody notice there've been more headshots this season? I loved the scene where Ronon shot the Wraith in the face and knocked him off his feet.

tombraider
October 18th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Wow. The Outsiders just reminded me why I fell in love with Atlantis and SG-1 in the first place. It is not just the adventure, not just awfully photogenic heros and general sci-fi sense of awe. It is the tale of humanity being imperfect but still trying, about most decisions being morally ambiguous, about life being all shades of grey and not just black and white. This is the episode which makes me really regret that Atlantis is cancelled.
I can't help it, but for the last couple of months, with the exception of the recent two-parter, the episodes were plain bordering on slightly boring and nowhere-ish. Just regular adventures of the week without contributing much to the main stry arc (I might be a little dim, but what exactly is the story arc this season? Todd's gathering more and more power? Newfound Asgard tribe? New foes who flashed in Daedalus Variations? I am fuzzy here.) But this is the one I am going to rewatch and to treasure. All characters are at their best, especially Beckett, Rodney and Sheppard. They are heroic and cunning in very difficult and ever changing circumstances, just the way we love them.
It is great that the writers finally came up with a very engaging storyiline to continue the saga of Hoffan drug in Pegasus Galaxy. Like every serious alteration to the balance of power in the galaxy, it is a very ambiguous two sided thing, originally designed to protect people and repel the wraith, it actually does the exact opposite. Wraith come to a planet which is a shelter to some Hoffan plague survivor refugees and demand them being handed over or else. Original settlers are divided, some want to save their derriere, some have too much conscience to do that. Even some refugees are divided, being all hunted and desperate, at least one is desperate enough to try to buy his ticket from the Wraith lab by betraying Beckett. Some can say that it ends too neatly that all the ones trying to buy their freedom by the lives of otheres are punished. But it is so very fitting, as betrayal sort of upsets the balance and has no other way but begetting another betrayal. This episode hammers this message hard, but it is a kind of message that needs to be hammered. You reap what you sow. We can see that in the eyes of the man who betrays his kin in the final twist. He does that to save everybody, Atlanteans, refugees and the villagers, the people he betrays were the ones who wanted to give up refugees without thinking right from the start, these are bad men he is betraying. When asked the question, if his conscience can take it, he responds that he would have to live with that. And after baddies are buried by the explosion, we see his eyes. It does not matter if you betrayed bad ones. It is the fact that you had to betray, it would always weight on the conscience. Brilliant writing and acting all around.
Another aspect I absolutely loved is Carson. I always knew he had chops, just not many opportunities to shine not just as a brilliant doctor and scientist, but as a man of courage and ingenuity. Of course there was his sacrifice in Sunday. Then bitter regret at losing such great guy. And he is finally back! I mean totally back in the midst of action, not just as another doctor. Here we got to see the same person who does not think long to sacrifice himself for others as soon as he figured out how. It is the Hoffan virus again, this time really helping to protect people, when Carson bravely lets Wraith to feed on him in a suicidal attempt. The stint works without killing Carson and it helps to resolve the situation. Now I was especially glad that they brought him back. This was one hell of an episode. Hoping for more Carson action before the end.
Overall it was highly enjoyable, if I could have rated it 11, I would.

garhkal
October 18th, 2008, 11:39 AM
All of his scenes were great. From the "doing no harm" speech, to standing up to the Wraith commander, to his humourous banter with Rodney as they evaded capture by the Wraith.

And I don't even like Carson, but I'm glad we finally got to see some great character moments from him.

That is true. It showed imo how much carson has matured and gained in confidence to stand up to that wraith commander.. now why he did not do that with Michael i don't know.


I thought it added a lot of darkness to Sheppard's character, continuing the events of "Miller's Crossing". I was like Wow, collateral damage! It was not a happy wow, it was a wow this show has gotten dark and NO, its not the lighting on the set.

And we could see the look of worry on the faces of the other villagers, and iirc teyla as well..


* When did Teyla stop being able to sense the Wraith? They just waltzed into town without her saying a word.

Over the seasons this has gone away slowly... Heck even in season 2, there were few times she did not sense any wraith..

[quote]The bit when Teyla scolded Ronon for stunning the villagers was so funny /quote]

As was Ronon's reply "But it was fun!"

While a good ep, it was not up there.. i give it 6 out of 10

Commander Zelix
October 18th, 2008, 12:32 PM
For me this was an average episode. It started out unoriginal and predictable, but got a bit better toward the end. Though a lot of things seems to be too convenient. (Carson/McKay beaming down at the last minute, the wraith commander talking alone with Carson and feeding on him, Carson having the plague, the wraith following the ambush, Carson becoming a great shooter, easy escape, etc). I like the Carson/McKay interactions. It was an interesting follow up to the plague episode. As others pointed out, Sheppard killing those humans villagers was uncalled for. Those people were not villains, or criminals, but just people trying to protect their people from a real threat, like Sheppard trying to protect those plague people. There's no way, those human villagers were worse that Sheppard in this episode. I predicted the ambush, but I thought they would be a wraith shoot out, not a bomb to kill everybody. It was unoriginal but it still was better than a lot of what else is on tv.

Briangate78
October 18th, 2008, 01:08 PM
I'm still not getting how this episode was predictable? How is it predictable with Sheppard blowing up some villagers with the Wraith. How about how Carson and Mckay suddenly appeared when Sheppard thought Teyla was going to be beamed up by the Dart. I did not see that one coming. I swear we got some Psychics here. Can we go to Atlantic City or Vegas and start placing some bets? I'll split with you 50/50! ;) :p

The only thing I predicted was Carson being immune to Wraith Feeding. But the moment was done so well, I did not care that I had an idea it was coming.

Arica15
October 18th, 2008, 01:11 PM
I loved every second of this one.

Beckett. The team, (all of em!) the story, everything........I especially loved this return to a darker Shep.

Yes it was a little contrived in places, but it zipped along and for once the overall story made the little slips forgivable.

Finally an episode this Season that actively makes me want to watch more Atlantis and not switch off and find something more interesting to do instead!

I honestly didn't think they still had an episode like this in them...and I'm delighted to be wrong.

JackHarkness_Hot
October 18th, 2008, 01:14 PM
Finally an episode this Season that actively makes me want to watch more Atlantis and not switch off and find something more interesting to do instead!

Same here!

Pegasus_SGA
October 18th, 2008, 01:16 PM
May I ask what you thought was predictable, because I did not for the love of God see Sheppard killing villagers to get to the Wraith. Well that was just me. :)

I have to say, I enjoyed the eppie quite a bit, but then I was there during filming, so it will always have a special place in my heart. But apart from those wonderful memories. I loved the ep, because it was a really nice team ep, and oh how i've missed them all working together... on the same planet no less. :P So that gets extra points in my book.

I enjoyed the story, the setting, the villagers seemed like proper villagers, no totty to be rescued. :lol: A good solid ep, loved the scenary and McKay and Carson's bits. There were some funny lines and the two of them trying to squoosh into a dart. Fab. Great to see Teyla there and having something to do. I did wonder what Beckett was doing there. Is he now roaming the galaxy helping survivors? Or is he still based on Atlantis... i'm not quite sure to be honest it didn't seem that clear whether he's out there roaming the galaxy or whether this was just a sideline... anyone help with that?

One thing that I don't get is why people are saying that Sheppard killed the villagers. I've seen that in a few people's post and have no idea where they got the impression that Sheppard actually knew that the villagers were in the mine with the wraith... so anyone? :lol:

cLa
October 18th, 2008, 01:20 PM
I really liked this one. The last two parter with Jackson was great but this one felt like the good ole days where the team were together. Lately it seems like they have been finding any excuse to break up the team.

Pandora's_Box
October 18th, 2008, 01:24 PM
One thing that I don't get is why people are saying that Sheppard killed the villagers. I've seen that in a few people's post and have no idea where they got the impression that Sheppard actually knew that the villagers were in the mine with the wraith... so anyone? :lol:

Someone had to have set those charges and the only ones with C4 were the Lanteans. So if they set those charges that means they expected to blow up the Wraith. Well, they had to get the Wraith in there somehow so logic would dictate that Sheppard came up with the plan to use those men to lure the Wraith there.

Speculation, to a point yes. But highly probable.

bluealien
October 18th, 2008, 01:27 PM
The head of the council pretended to be on Jervis's side and let them out so they would lead the Wraith to the cave where the Balarians were. They took the bait of course and were willing to hand over all the innocent Balarians to be killed by the Wraith. It was Sheppards plan so therefore he is being blamed. But if the villagers werent so intent on handing the Balarians over they wouldnt have been killed.
So I didn't really have a lot of sympathy for them considering they had no problem with handing over the innocent villagers to be killed by the Wraith, and did they think the Wraith would really just let them walk away afterwards.

If Shep hadn't of blown them up the Wraith probably would have killed them anyway...

Pegasus_SGA
October 18th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Someone had to have set those charges and the only ones with C4 were the Lanteans. So if they set those charges that means they expected to blow up the Wraith. Well, they had to get the Wraith in there somehow so logic would dictate that Sheppard came up with the plan to use those men to lure the Wraith there.

Speculation, to a point yes. But highly probable.

See I couldn't disagree more. :P I have no doubt that Sheppard set the charges, but there's nothing at all that we saw would indicate that Sheppard set the villagers up to be killed. If he wanted them dead he could have just blown up the jail or left them to the wraith. We know the wraith had their search parties out anyway, so wouldn't it make sense that the leader let them out of the jail (as we saw) Jarvis took his men to the wraith said to them, that he knew where the outsiders were (as told to him by the village leader) and off they went to the mine. Sheppard and the team from what we saw, did not know that the leader of the village was going to release Jarvis. There was nothing we saw or heard from Sheppard that would suggest he knew about the villagers. When the C4 blew he said that should have stopped the wraith, not the wraith and the villagers. So I still don't believe that Sheppard knew about what the council leader was doing. I can't see Sheppard allowing a collaborator to go back with them to Atlantis, could you?

But how do we know it was Sheppard's plan, Blue? There was nothing in Sheppard's actions, words or reactions that would suggest it was his idea that the Bolarians should be killed along with the Wraith.

Arica15
October 18th, 2008, 01:32 PM
Hmm I really can't see why Shep is getting this much stick.....I mean, he didn't force the villagers to betray anyone, they chose to do so. That it backfired on them is almost beside the point. Yes I know they were only trying to save themselves...but how often is that used as an excuse to simply do nothing. It was a dreadful situation, but their own actions led them into the mine, if they had decided not to go into the mine, i.e. not to betray the others, Shep would have had to have done something else.

Not a good solution, not a nice solution, but Shep couldn't save everyone in the situation they were in, he had to make a choice. And that he was willing to make the hard choices for better or for worse is one of the things that made me love Sheppard way back in Season 1. Nice to see him again.

JackHarkness_Hot
October 18th, 2008, 01:33 PM
It was the scene after he donated the C4 that indicated that Sheppard "suggested" to the village leader to go with the plan, I believe his words are, "Nice work". Therefore, chances are it was Sheppard who came up with the plan.

stclare
October 18th, 2008, 01:41 PM
I realy enjoyed this ep. loved the team and mckay/carson banter. No over the top heaving bussomed women needing to be rescued or flirted with ;)

It was an ep where I actualy came away from watching it questioning what I would do in the 'mine' situation. was shep right? what else could he have done etc.

if I can enjoy an ep for its entertainment value and it also have substance that makes me question the decisions made by the characters and there consequences then its a good ep in my book!

4.5/5 (.5 off just casue I would have liked some convo with woolsey in atantis - i miss the check ins)

bluealien
October 18th, 2008, 01:41 PM
But how do we know it was Sheppard's plan, Blue? There was nothing in Sheppard's actions, words or reactions that would suggest it was his idea that the Bolarians should be killed along with the Wraith.


The plan was for Jervis to lead the Wraith to the cave and once they were all in the cave it was blown up.. so how could Shep not expect Jervis and his men not to be killed along with the Wraith, when the cave was rigged with C4.
I agree that it was the villagers own choice to take the bait.. they didnt have to lead the Wraith there in the first place. They had no problem in sacrificing the Bolarians but instead the tables got turned on them..

Pegasus_SGA
October 18th, 2008, 01:55 PM
The plan was for Jervis to lead the Wraith to the cave and once they were all in the cave it was blown up.. so how could Shep not expect Jervis and his men not to be killed along with the Wraith, when the cave was rigged with C4.
I agree that it was the villagers own choice to take the bait.. they didnt have to lead the Wraith there in the first place. They had no problem in sacrificing the Bolarians but instead the tables got turned on them..

I just watched it again, and I think I can see what people mean, when Sheppard says, 'Nice work'. I can see your point, but what we don't know completely that Shep was aware that the other villagers went into the mines with the Wraith. Yes, I can see it being suggestive now, listening to that bit back again. But I don't know with all the fuss, I expected something bigger. :lol: I do prefer it when the morality is slightly skewered, but I didn't think this was anything along the scale of what happened in Miller's crossing. But nice to see a bit of dark Shep resurfacing. Bring it on I say. :P

And on a completely shallow point Blue, I luffs your sig. :D

JackHarkness_Hot
October 18th, 2008, 01:58 PM
I think they knew, their look wasn't one of joy the village leader was in angst. Poor man, if Heightmeyer was still alive he will definitely need her services.

Linda06
October 18th, 2008, 02:00 PM
I just watched it again, and I think I can see what people mean, when Sheppard says, 'Nice work'. I can see your point, but what we don't know completely that Shep was aware that the other villagers went into the mines with the Wraith. Yes, I can see it being suggestive now, listening to that bit back again. But I don't know with all the fuss, I expected something bigger. :lol: I do prefer it when the morality is slightly skewered, but I didn't think this was anything along the scale of what happened in Miller's crossing. But nice to see a bit of dark Shep resurfacing. Bring it on I say. :P

And on a completely shallow point Blue, I luffs your sig. :D

Well TBH I don't think he had a choice...The wraith would have killed them all if they got their hands on them so he had to sacrifice a few to save many..Plus they were gonna betray the others to the wraith so he it was his fault what happened to him and the others!

GateLadyM
October 18th, 2008, 04:50 PM
This was a bit slow for me, but was a good chance to show how much better Carson is as a character than the gawd-awful Keller and her multiple romances (gag). At least we got more Teyla this week. Unfortunately we will get Keller back oh so soon (but I can watch something else then). Teyla will be pushed out of the way to make room for "As the Stargate Turns".

ladyjanus
October 18th, 2008, 07:26 PM
We've known since the first season that Shep has some very dark places in his soul. Isn't that a very real part of why he's so attractive to so many of us?

What caught my attention, and what I haven't really seen addressed in these postings is how far Beckett went into the shade, morally. In the wake of the "Do no harm" spiel he let the Wraith feed on him, spurred him into it, really, knowing that the Wraith would die from it.

Now that, my friends, is what I call character development...

TheSage
October 19th, 2008, 01:58 AM
This time, Sheppard did put the lives of humans on the line.

The humans were not necessarily the most upright types, but they were humans. They had already once shown, that they were not cold-hearted monsters, when they stepped back from killing the Balarians and willingly surrendered their weapons and allowed themselves to be jailed. It was also the village elder who put the idea of letting the Wraith know of the hiding place of the left-over Balarians, and that Jarvis could/should go and let them know. Jarvis also talked about whether the village elder could live with his conscience after doing this.

As Jarvis and Sheppard devised this plan together, where Sheppard's job was to place the explosives and get the Balarians to safety, Sheppard too was responsible for the death of those 5-6 humans.

Laura Dove
October 19th, 2008, 02:20 AM
The humans were not necessarily the most upright types, but they were humans.

So what? It was about time the Atlanteans treat their fellow humans the way they treat other beings. Wraith might be ruthless and often cruel, but at least, they behave consistently whether it's among themselves or with other species.

But the Atlanteans? If you're a wraith or a replicator, your reward for cooperation and good-will is betrayal (death-like fates like being blanked in his mind and body for Michael, or frozen in the vacuum of space for the ascension-seeking replicators), but if you're human, you are forgiven no matter what you did and the level of danger you pose (the Genii, the criminals in "Condemned")?

Teslan
October 19th, 2008, 08:07 PM
So what? It was about time the Atlanteans treat their fellow humans the way they treat other beings. Wraith might be ruthless and often cruel, but at least, they behave consistently whether it's among themselves or with other species.

But the Atlanteans? If you're a wraith or a replicator, your reward for cooperation and good-will is betrayal (death-like fates like being blanked in his mind and body for Michael, or frozen in the vacuum of space for the ascension-seeking replicators), but if you're human, you are forgiven no matter what you did and the level of danger you pose (the Genii, the criminals in "Condemned")?

Do you know that line in the first "Pirates" movie? The one that talks about how its the "dishonest" that one always knows how to treat? It's the same with the Wraith. We know that at the first chance they get, they'll pull one over on us. (The most trusting and trustworthy among them is Todd, and he wasn't exactly caught completely off-guard when he thought they had betrayed him). They do it to each other. Thus, we always know we have to pull the trigger first.

Humans don't always turn out to be a bunch of two-timing lowlifes. Therefore, the team tries to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Teslan
October 19th, 2008, 08:10 PM
This time, Sheppard did put the lives of humans on the line.

The humans were not necessarily the most upright types, but they were humans. They had already once shown, that they were not cold-hearted monsters, when they stepped back from killing the Balarians and willingly surrendered their weapons and allowed themselves to be jailed. It was also the village elder who put the idea of letting the Wraith know of the hiding place of the left-over Balarians, and that Jarvis could/should go and let them know. Jarvis also talked about whether the village elder could live with his conscience after doing this.

As Jarvis and Sheppard devised this plan together, where Sheppard's job was to place the explosives and get the Balarians to safety, Sheppard too was responsible for the death of those 5-6 humans.

Those humans made their beds when they agreed to work with the Wraith and hand over their fellow human beings. If you're seen co-operating with the enemy during a time of war, and the bomb goes off it is too bad for you.

Laura Dove
October 19th, 2008, 10:36 PM
Do you know that line in the first "Pirates" movie? The one that talks about how its the "dishonest" that one always knows how to treat? It's the same with the Wraith. We know that at the first chance they get, they'll pull one over on us. (The most trusting and trustworthy among them is Todd, and he wasn't exactly caught completely off-guard when he thought they had betrayed him). They do it to each other. Thus, we always know we have to pull the trigger first.

Is it a crime now to have a brain? No, Todd won't "throw himself at their mercy". Being cooperative doesn't mean he's plain stupid, or he'd already be dead. And if by "pull the trigger first", you mean "wait for two of his cruisers, and the wraith inside them, to be annihilated by Atlantis" (albeit unwillingly), then I agree.

And what about Michael at the end of "No Man's Land"?

dasNdanger
October 19th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Do you know that line in the first "Pirates" movie? The one that talks about how its the "dishonest" that one always knows how to treat? It's the same with the Wraith. We know that at the first chance they get, they'll pull one over on us. (The most trusting and trustworthy among them is Todd, and he wasn't exactly caught completely off-guard when he thought they had betrayed him). They do it to each other. Thus, we always know we have to pull the trigger first.

Humans don't always turn out to be a bunch of two-timing lowlifes. Therefore, the team tries to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Well, since Lanteans are always the ones screwing over the Wraith, then I'd say that 'dishonesty' at least goes both ways. In fact, since the Lanteans alway react first, many Wraith have died who - perhaps - could have proven themselves trustworthy, just like Todd. But we'll never know because they are dead. Even Michael helped Sheppard when he really didn't have to - he could have immediately turned Sheppard over to the Queen to win back her favor, but he helped instead - and was immediately betrayed - AGAIN - by the humans. The Lanteans are a bunch of hypocrites, and this episode sealed it for me. They pretend to be the saints, while they prove themselves no better - or even worse - than the Wraith.

das

nx01a
October 20th, 2008, 04:40 PM
RONON DEX: It's the same guards from the village. I recognise the commander.
That was supposed to be an inside joke, right?:P Wraith... different?!:P

The Good:
-Carson kiled another Wraith! His little tirade to the dying Wraith reminded me of Dr. Phlox on Enterprise angrily telling Klingons he had just infected them with a deadly virus and ordering them to let him cure them and others. Once doctors let go of that whole 'do no harm' crap, they seem to get more work done. Perhaps that's why the our Asgard died out.
-When did Carson get this messiah-like complex, walking the way of the poor and downtrodden of Pegasus? At least he's the opposite of other 'main' stars, actually spending long periods of time offworld without hot baths, PlayStation ... deodorant.
-Moral dilemmas galore this episode. Double and triple crosses galore.
-The minute they said 'mining office', I knew there would be an explosion.
-Crystalline technology. I can't remember seeing the Wraith use crystals a la Asgard or Ancients before. Interesting. Their technology's evolving. Good for us, bad for Atlantis.
-Stupid scientist, testing your work on yourself without being forced by an overbearing commander.
-Teyla and John take up shooting stances, Ronon runs straight at the enemy firing.
-Headshots!
-Did Teyla's overhead shooting arc look just like the famous shot of Sam doing the same thing to gliders from the SG-1 credits? It looks alot like it to me.
-And did Ronon and Shep jumping through the gate look just like Daniel and Jack jumping through the gate in 'Torment of Tantalus', also in the SG-1 credits?
-John can dodge Wraith transmat beams!
-Teyla can't!
-Rodney can't fly it, but he sure can manipulate its beaming tech.
-Rodney and Carson were hilarious this episode, from the complaining about Carson's need for MORE supplies to the tongue-in-cheek hive rescues to the weight jokes to my fave:

McKAY: Well, you're gonna have to cover me!

BECKETT: All right.

(He looks around at all the exits.)

BECKETT: From which direction?:carson:

The Bad:
-When did Carson get back to the Pegasus galaxy?
-Again... WHY does anyone go anywhere without a jumper?!?! Even if they're not needed and go back once they've dropped you off, why make Rodney keep whining about long treks from the gate every other episode? Crap, even Michael discovered how handy having a jumper can be.:P
-Nice purple/pink eyeshadow, Teyla. Matches your purple/pink lipstick perfectly. Just once, I'd like to see a female warrior in the midst of battle look hot and sweaty, like it's actually taxing to fight for one's life. Wait... I got that in Sam vs the Kull warrior. Never mind. I got my one.
-Firing P90s and Ronon's energy gun at darts?! Sigh.
-Gods, another backwater village... Well, almost.
-The villagers were openly allowed by the Wraith to progress to the point of developing flintlocks?! Obviously they were overdue for a culling. And why is it that we've never seen a village simply start killing Wraith with pitchforks, taking their weapons and using them? It seems so easy. Then again, the Wraith don't seem as invulnerable or scary as they did in the first season.

The Questions:
-Have we ever seen the facehugger Wraith soldiers wraith someone?
-Anyone else miss seeing a culling? That level of terror and chaos is what made me understand how dangerous, scary, cold, etc. the Wraith were. I'm not feeling it anymore.

The Verdict:
Enjoyable episode. I'm a bit tired of these stupid situations where the team shows up in a backwater village and ends up in the middle of random Wraith madness. Have a cloaked jumper there at all times and negate this foolishness.

DrJacksonsMistress
October 20th, 2008, 09:15 PM
Ok... so I love the series so much that I'm a bit confused here...
Was it really that predictable of an episode or is it just my love of the show that made it easy to figure out for me??
O well, looking forward to the next episode anyways...

DrJacksonsMistress
October 20th, 2008, 09:23 PM
ok is it just me??
I thought this one was entirely too predictable...

I knew the leader of the tribe (Forgive me for not remembering his name) was working with the Atlantis team when he went and had the "bad villagers" (for lack of a better term) and let them out of the cell...

I also totally called the McKay/ Beckett beaming out of a dart "twist"...

those are just the 2 things that popped in my mind (4 days after the episode) but I have a distinct memory of feeling that the entire episode was way too predictable...

Again, I ask... Is it just me, or does someone else feel this way??


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geeks Are Hot!!!

Laura Dove
October 20th, 2008, 11:03 PM
those are just the 2 things that popped in my mind (4 days after the episode) but I have a distinct memory of feeling that the entire episode was way too predictable...

I wouldn't say "predictable", but too many things were too convenient for my taste. I don't mind when our main characters win thanks to a lot of luck, but here, it seemed contrived.

But while the scenario was not perfect, I loved the character development. It was a good idea from SciFi to exchange this episode with the next one, considering what the next one should be about.

Avalonis
October 21st, 2008, 04:51 AM
The badguys get what they deserve and people are crying. Wow.

jelgate
October 21st, 2008, 05:08 AM
Your new so I'll give this advice. Stay away from the Wraith lovers:P

Ruffles
October 21st, 2008, 05:31 AM
-When did Carson get back to the Pegasus galaxy?

In Whispers. He hasn't left Pegasus since. He simply left Atlantis at the end of the ep to help those around the galaxy suffering from the Hoffan plague.

angela23
October 21st, 2008, 10:07 AM
At least I'm already getting a sense of character complexity and depth just by watching this debate. Things are, surprsingly, looking up. :)

:sheppard:This episode was okay, not the greatest but good. I'm not that crazy about Beckett and Mc Kay, they were not that funny. Especially in the Dart. Beckett played it to straight, I don't think he knows what to do when Mc Kay gets sarcastic. Between them on the Wraith- ship it was not that funny. I liked Sheppards dark side so, it shows a diff. character to him. The only once getting blown up was the Ringleader and the Wraith. It was necessary, and he played it good. :sheppard:

nx01a
October 21st, 2008, 02:00 PM
In Whispers. He hasn't left Pegasus since. He simply left Atlantis at the end of the ep to help those around the galaxy suffering from the Hoffan plague.For some reason, I thought he'd gone back to Earth again, like Porter.;) Thanks, Ruffles, I guess he was gating around Pegasus doctoring instead, good and selfless clone that he is.

And the final lines of this episode... Oh dear. Rodney'd got the hots for someone! Who Keller it be?:mckay:

GoSpikey
October 21st, 2008, 02:06 PM
The badguys get what they deserve and people are crying. Wow.

:mad:


Your new so I'll give this advice. Stay away from the Wraith lovers:P

;)

Nusku
October 21st, 2008, 04:52 PM
This episode was a right downer after the Jackson shows. You always now it's gonna be a duffer as soon as you realise it's manly gonna be set in Ye Boring Olde Worlde Village chock full of the local redneck idiots.

Just another low quality offering to go with the rest of the bilge this season is mainly comprised of. And wtf was Carson doing working on that planet. I thought he got sent back to Earth?

Chevron Atlantis
October 21st, 2008, 05:49 PM
Really looking forward to this episode,can't wait to watch.

Amalthea
October 21st, 2008, 07:54 PM
I don't think it was predictable at all. I mean, the lynch pin of the plan was the counselor lying to his people to bring them into the mine to blow them up! That's morally ambiguous at best. Sure, they weren't good people, but still! It doesn't make them much better than the guys who wanted to hand over the Bollerons in the first place.

Anyway, nice to see Carson again. I wasn't expecting him to be out and about, but it makes sense since he knows about the Hoffan drug. It was a good episode. Not my favourite, but still enjoyable.

Jill_Ion
October 21st, 2008, 09:41 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. It was nice. Not great, but solid team adventure ep with morality questions and Beckett/McKay humor. I'll be watching it again next week with my hub, and am interested in what he will think. As others have said, it felt like a good ol' SG ep.

:sheppard: :ronan: :mckay: :teyla: :beckett:

Integrabyte
October 22nd, 2008, 03:30 AM
Didn't they FedEX Carson to the SGC?

Ruffles
October 22nd, 2008, 05:34 AM
And wtf was Carson doing working on that planet. I thought he got sent back to Earth?

Carson came back in Whispers and hasn't left. He's been working with worlds suffering from the Hoffan virus.

Integrabyte
October 22nd, 2008, 06:04 AM
I see. One of the reasons we are all puzzled is because that WAS VERY CLEAR!!!

surfcity
October 22nd, 2008, 08:58 AM
I really, really enjoyed this epi! I was cheering and clapping through practically the entire epi like a kid. Dr. Beckett to the rescue! I was sure they were going to kill him off again and tear our hearts out, but thankfully, they didn't.

There were moments in the beginning, before the villagers turned on the outsiders, where I thought this must have been what it was like when the Nazis threatened non-Jewish people to get them to reveal where the Jewish people were in their town/city before/during WWII. I thought it was very moving and also showed how evil people can be when they only think of themselves.

Bravo for a equally thoughful, fun, and exciting epi!

Mitchell82
October 22nd, 2008, 10:48 AM
ok is it just me??
I thought this one was entirely too predictable...

I knew the leader of the tribe (Forgive me for not remembering his name) was working with the Atlantis team when he went and had the "bad villagers" (for lack of a better term) and let them out of the cell...

I also totally called the McKay/ Beckett beaming out of a dart "twist"...

those are just the 2 things that popped in my mind (4 days after the episode) but I have a distinct memory of feeling that the entire episode was way too predictable...

Again, I ask... Is it just me, or does someone else feel this way??


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geeks Are Hot!!!
Well for me it wasnt predictable. It was a good ep IMO. Not great but good.

Integrabyte
October 22nd, 2008, 12:43 PM
Mistress,

The episode was a typical SGA filler. The same old mediocre quality and writing. Luckily, Paul was in it.

GoSpikey
October 22nd, 2008, 12:58 PM
It was clear where Carson was for those who wanted to hear... ;)

I found this episode more entertaining than TLT, I think. :D

Integrabyte
October 22nd, 2008, 01:01 PM
I think it was Judge DREDD and not Judge Shep. I might be wrong on this one...

nx01a
October 22nd, 2008, 01:02 PM
Mistress,

The episode was a typical SGA filler. The same old mediocre quality and writing. Luckily, Paul was in it.Seconded.:(

Jill_Ion
October 22nd, 2008, 03:01 PM
Not thirded. :)

GoSpikey
October 22nd, 2008, 03:35 PM
Not fourthed, either.

jelgate
October 22nd, 2008, 03:41 PM
Not fifth

Integrabyte
October 23rd, 2008, 02:30 AM
Seconded.:(

What was new in the episode? The same junk over and over again. As someone said before...when an episode starts with a Village and Neanderthals, you know it is gonna be bad. How bad? Well, there is always a new limit :P.

Mitchell82
October 23rd, 2008, 08:37 AM
Mistress,

The episode was a typical SGA filler. The same old mediocre quality and writing. Luckily, Paul was in it.

Not to me.

Dusk
October 24th, 2008, 03:32 AM
The same people get on these boards and praise the show week by week. The same people get on these boards and trash the show week by week. I wish I could be a part of the former, but it would be a lie.

Integrabyte
October 24th, 2008, 03:34 AM
Ginger left and she came back.

Jill_Ion
October 24th, 2008, 05:42 AM
The same people get on these boards and praise the show week by week. The same people get on these boards and trash the show week by week. I wish I could be a part of the former, but it would be a lie.

OK. Do you think anyone is asking you to lie?

huntress
October 24th, 2008, 10:08 AM
One of those episodes, that will fade from your memory as soon as the end credits start to roll. The only reason I watched it, was because Carson was in it but otherwise, the episode was very, very mediocre and predictable. Oh well, still better then last weeks offering. At least I didn't have any high exepectations that got shattered.

Oka
October 24th, 2008, 10:18 AM
Boring episode. Derivative, repetitive, trite... I could go on.

Today's episode looks promising though.

Mitchell82
October 24th, 2008, 11:09 AM
One of those episodes, that will fade from your memory as soon as the end credits start to roll. The only reason I watched it, was because Carson was in it but otherwise, the episode was very, very mediocre and predictable. Oh well, still better then last weeks offering. At least I didn't have any high exepectations that got shattered.

Ok wait I loved Outsiders but better than The Lost Tribe? No way.

nx01a
October 24th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Not thirded. :)Apart from the triple crosses galore and Carson growing a pair, the episode was kinda ho-hum, been there-seen that. It wasn't the worst SGA episode ever, but it didn't break any new ground IMO.

huntress
October 24th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Ok wait I loved Outsiders but better than The Lost Tribe? No way.

"The Lost Tribe" was awful. I am not going to repeat myself because I wrote a lenthy review of the episode in the General thread from "Lost Tribe"

Integrabyte
October 24th, 2008, 12:34 PM
Shame it always happens when a loved SG1 character decides to cross over. It is like they do it on purpose :P.

nx01a
October 24th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Daniel needs to stay in a room and not go out. Every time he discovers something, we discover a new, deadly enemy. Well, to be fair, in this case the enemy was neither old nor deadly... Punked by Travelers. They deserve extinction.:P

Integrabyte
October 24th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Hahahah. I so agree with that :P. Disgrace to the Alliance of Great Races :P.

Mitchell82
October 25th, 2008, 09:52 AM
"The Lost Tribe" was awful. I am not going to repeat myself because I wrote a lenthy review of the episode in the General thread from "Lost Tribe"
I've read it. I don't agree it was a great ep IMO.

Integrabyte
October 26th, 2008, 10:21 AM
^ I don't agree. It was rubbish ;).

Dusk
October 27th, 2008, 02:54 AM
Laugh a minute, you lot. :daniel:

Integrabyte
October 27th, 2008, 10:15 AM
Times up. Start crying again :P.

PantheraLeo
October 31st, 2008, 05:38 AM
SGA basically suffers from bad creative writing. The concepts are interesting but they don't come out nicely because the writers somehow jam up

Jumper_One
November 2nd, 2008, 06:26 PM
P476 writes: I rewatched Outsiders again and it still bugs me that Teyla did not sense the Wraith coming, whats up with that? Did something alter her sense after The Queen?

Answer: My guess? The three bars she had at the tavern.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/november-2-2008-projects-plans-pooches-and-poltergeists/

Briangate78
November 2nd, 2008, 06:46 PM
SGA basically suffers from bad creative writing. The concepts are interesting but they don't come out nicely because the writers somehow jam up

You mean in your opinion right?

Integrabyte
November 3rd, 2008, 01:20 AM
You mean in your opinion right?

You think he talks for his neighbour?

Mitchell82
November 4th, 2008, 07:44 AM
^ I don't agree. It was rubbish ;).

How? It was very well done IMHO.

Mitchell82
November 4th, 2008, 07:46 AM
SGA basically suffers from bad creative writing. The concepts are interesting but they don't come out nicely because the writers somehow jam up

In your opinion. IMHO that's not the case.

Matt G
November 4th, 2008, 01:56 PM
1. Good to see Carson again.

2. Not a bad strategy by the Wraith but a tried and tested one. Am annoyed Jervis and crew fell for it.

3. Carson has the Hoffan virus. Hope it doesn't kill him.

4. My thinking is that Elson had switched sides but Sheppard wasn't as clueless as he'd though. However, he didn't bank on any humans being in the mineshaft. Mine goes boom, Elsom's guiltripping over Jervis's death.

Liked it.

McgillionFan
November 5th, 2008, 01:26 AM
I really liked this episode. It was brillant. I missed the 1st 10mins of it though :( lol (though it started at 9 not 8 lol )

I really liked it when Carson spoke to the head wraith on the ship he had a sort of dark side to him and it was really cool to see. Beckett opened a can of whoopa$$ all over the wraiths Glutmas Maximus !!! lol. And the Mckay and Beckett moments where brillant,loved it when they got in the dart lmao.

C : Maybe it needs a key
R : It's a ship...not a volswagon

lmao :D It was so funny and when they got back to Atlantis as well.

It was a great episode,really liked it.

Lord batchi ball
November 10th, 2008, 05:28 PM
I was really not impressed with the entire episode. Carson just seemed out of place and they didn't even try to disguise the fact that they used the same set as in Whispers ( I kind of ruled out the fact that it was the same village b/c they refered to the passages underground as mines and not catacombs, along w/ other things).

I liked the Wraith in this episode and when they blew up the retards in the mine, oh and when they were fighting the Wraith at the gate and Ronan shot one and he flew back that was pretty sweet.

But like I said this episode was still not very good.

daviewonder156
November 11th, 2008, 05:56 AM
My thought on the episode...well it wasn't the best episode that they had filmed but there was somthing thad confused me about that episode and it still baffles me to this day..

in epiode 502 "the seed", it had been said the would have to go back to earth after Dr Keller found a way of keeping him alive....so i asumed he went back to earth to get better.

so in this episode, how did he manage to get well enought to go back to the planet and help these people?

Integrabyte
November 12th, 2008, 07:32 AM
Magic!!! :p

morjana
November 22nd, 2008, 12:47 AM
SGA - MGM Stargate: Video: Paul McGillion Talks About Outsiders:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/08/sga%205/mgm/paulmcgillion-outsiders.jpg

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=9273165&postcount=779

Falcon Horus
November 24th, 2008, 12:27 PM
Not much to say really...

I had a feeling it was not that bad - there was something of old Atlantis shining through. The CG of the village was bad. My Medal of Honor CG of 3 years ago looks ten times better than that. Good to see Carson again, Carson and Rodney were fun to watch. Carson immune to feeding - I saw it coming when the Wraith was threatening to feed, but still a nice surprise. Rodney and Carson squeezed into that dart. *snort*

Overall, not bad. A whiff of good old Atlantis.

danzig70
February 9th, 2009, 07:17 AM
Yeah Beckett!

major davis
April 24th, 2009, 02:59 PM
YEA great ep, carson pwned

mrscopterdoc
September 16th, 2010, 08:58 PM
Not one of the best episodes but I loved that Carson saved the day so to speak on thehive ship. Him and Rodney bickering in the seat of the dart was the best part. :P

Atlantis4Life
September 17th, 2010, 07:59 AM
I’ve been watching a few season 5 episodes that I liked to see if they improved for me on the second go ‘round, and Outsiders is one of the few that I decided to rewatch. First things first, I noticed that the make-up people didn’t put make-up on the leader Wraith’s neck so you can totally see a human neck with a Wraith head. Someone should have caught this:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/S5OutsidersWraith.jpg

Anyhoo, Outsiders is about as good as it gets for another “Medieval Village” *sigh* story. The great thing is that the focus didn’t continuously stay on the village setting/people even though the team was working to save them. I thought that Beckett and McKay on the hive ship was great, and the whole story worked out well because of its significance. I love how after all of the changes that Carson has gone through during the last 5 years (2 of which where he was tortured by and pressured into helping Michael), he finally stands up to the Wraith and says he’s not afraid of them anymore, so bullying, bribing, and threats of torture and/or death will no longer work because he’s had it. He refuses to be used by them and to play by their ever-changing rules. (An added bonus is that this is one of the few Keller-free episodes of the season. ;) Thank you writing-god Alan M.)

All in all, it’s a good episode. While I liked Outsiders the first time I watched it, after a second viewing, I definitely think that this is one of the best episodes of the season. It may even become one of my favorites. I can definitely watch this one time and time again and enjoy it all the way through. I don’t know why I didn’t love this the first time around (???). Then again, perhaps I do. I think I was waiting for Carson to get his old job back during season 5, and that line from Carson in the beginning about not missing Atlantis didn’t make sense to me. I could understand him feeling obligated to help people by becoming a “doctor without borders,” but not missing his home didn’t make any sense. I don’t buy it. It was like the writers were trying to make the audience okay with the fact that he wasn’t going to get his job back instead of focusing on giving it back to him. Anyway, that’s my main quibble. I like the part where Carson asks Rodney if he’s interested in anyone at the end, but I don’t like that Keller is the one Rodney doesn’t want to mention... :S (She makes me miss Katie.)

Oh - And the best part about this episode:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/S5OutsidersMyTeamIsBack.jpg

My team is back, and you’re gonna be in trouble. http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/sheppard52.gifhttp://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/teyla_onegun.gifhttp://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/beckett_syringe02.gifhttp://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/mckayanime19.gifhttp://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/ronananime15.gif = http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/GW%20JT%20Thread/wraith26.gif

Hey-la, Hey-la. My team is back! :cool:

When you see them comin’ better cut out on the double. http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz280/Atlantis4Life/bolt.gif

Hey-now, Hey-now. My team is back! (Go Beckett!! :D)

It didn‘t last, but it was nice while it did. :)

:P

Linda06
September 18th, 2010, 12:26 PM
You notice that Teyla is waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy at the back there :mckay:

Falcon Horus
September 19th, 2010, 10:04 AM
You notice that Teyla is waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy at the back there :mckay:

That's why it was called outsiders. :p

Linda06
September 19th, 2010, 10:55 AM
That's why it was called outsiders. :p

Ah right, silly me :rolleyes: :p

mrscopterdoc
September 19th, 2010, 11:39 AM
In some of the episodes, does she even speak? :(

Falcon Horus
September 19th, 2010, 12:57 PM
In some of the episodes, does she even speak? :(

When she's in the episode she'll have words - even if it's only in the Previously on Stargate Atlantis... trust me I know. :p

Linda06
September 19th, 2010, 01:21 PM
When she's in the episode she'll have words - even if it's only in the Previously on Stargate Atlantis... trust me I know. :p

:lol: And I can vouch for that ;)

mrscopterdoc
September 19th, 2010, 02:07 PM
wow. I knew it was bad, but didn't realize it was *that* bad. I am doing a season 5 rewatch and I have made it is as far as Inquisition....and I can't make myself watch anymore. :(

Linda06
September 19th, 2010, 02:14 PM
If you're up to Inquisition I'm afraid it doesn't get any better :S IMO of course ;)

mrscopterdoc
September 19th, 2010, 02:16 PM
I know....that is why I just can't make myself watch anymore. I have had all weekend to myself, could have finished up the season....but I didn't even look at the discs. *sigh*

Linda06
September 19th, 2010, 02:23 PM
I haven't even got season 5 on DVD :p

jelgate
September 19th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I know....that is why I just can't make myself watch anymore. I have had all weekend to myself, could have finished up the season....but I didn't even look at the discs. *sigh*

I can answer this. You turn the episode watching into a drinking game

mrscopterdoc
September 19th, 2010, 04:00 PM
:lol: and drink the problem away?

jelgate
September 19th, 2010, 04:05 PM
:lol: and drink the problem away?

Pretty much. The exception is Vegas. No amount of alcohol can make that episode good

mrscopterdoc
September 19th, 2010, 04:10 PM
well, seeing Sheppy in jeans is quite the [good] distraction for me :D but that is about the only good thing for that eppy.

maneth
March 9th, 2011, 08:58 AM
Must say I disagree with you. Just love this show so much, and it's not getting worse for me. Devious stuff in this episode too, and I loved the way Carson tricked the Wraith to feeding on him.

Skie
March 16th, 2011, 03:49 PM
Wow, Shepperd is getting darker by the minute. Luring those guys to certain death AND with the help of this village elder. Of course this elder doesn't know them since they were born, it's not like they live in the same village. So he has no scruple over this. :rolleyes:
Yes, those men wanted to give the wraiths those Hoffan carriers but not out of spite but to protect their people. And they waited before doing that until Shepperds plan delayed. So Shepperd has no problem sacrificing village people BUT has problems to kill human-turned wraiths in Misbegotten, who are a big thread to Atlantis and Earth. Go figure.

Anyone wondered what happened to Todds research? He got all the Lanteans data on the Hoffan drug but wasn't able to come up with a detection method like the other hive in this ep almost did (and they had no data on this). Poor Todd, why did they have you become so stupid in S5.

Falcon Horus
March 16th, 2011, 03:54 PM
I take it you don't like Sheppard much...

Skie
March 17th, 2011, 12:38 PM
I take it you don't like Sheppard much...

No, I don't like what they turned him into in S4-5. Sheppard was one of my favourite characters in S1-3.

Falcon Horus
March 17th, 2011, 02:14 PM
No, I don't like what they turned him into in S4-5. Sheppard was one of my favourite characters in S1-3.

Ah... I can understand that...

Skie
March 21st, 2011, 02:09 AM
Ah... I can understand that...

Well, which "normal" person wouldn't. :)

Um, just a thought. But the wraith are telepathic right? (Yeah, well the writers completely forgot about that in later seasons or used it only if it served the SGA team *sigh*). So interrogation about who is Hoffan carrier and who not shouldn't be much of a problem or am I wrong?

Falcon Horus
March 21st, 2011, 01:34 PM
Um, just a thought. But the wraith are telepathic right? (Yeah, well the writers completely forgot about that in later seasons or used it only if it served the SGA team *sigh*). So interrogation about who is Hoffan carrier and who not shouldn't be much of a problem or am I wrong?

It shouldn't have been... no.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 16th, 2012, 03:21 PM
I didn't like this episode.

Rodney (and somewhat Carson) is a genius (but not as much as Carter is).

Tomorrow, a clipshow (yay?).

Krisz
October 16th, 2012, 08:34 PM
Oh no, another village and a bunch of threatened villagers that need 'saving'!!! *Yawn*

The only good part of this episode was Beckett standing up to the Wraith to enrage him enough to feed on him so he got poisoned by the Hoffan drug in Beckett's body. It was good to see him doing the brave hero bit!

Reversing the Wraith beaming and storage device was a great idea so McKay and Beckett got beamed out when the Wraith was trying to pick up fleeing humans!

I suppose this episode gave more insights into what other Wraith were doing in the face of their problem with the tainted food supply. Each trying to outdo the other hives to get an upper hand. Still, it wasn't one of the better episodes of this season.

Lieutenant Sparrow
October 23rd, 2012, 02:27 AM
Yeah pretty ordinary ep.

I agree that Beckett getting the Wraith to feed on him was the best part.

It's always good to see Beckett and McKay together.

Matt G
October 23rd, 2012, 02:44 PM
Midweek, another ep of Atlantis.

1. Scumbags ahoy! Jervis stabbed the "outsiders" in the back and then that guy stabbed our guy in the back...and then got what was coming to him.

2. Probably Beckett's best moment yet.

3. Agam Darshi. Cool.

4. I don't think Shep honestly knew that humans were in the mineshaft - he probably just assumed or took it for granted that the Wraith would be led there.

Still cool.

jelgate
October 27th, 2012, 05:01 PM
I remember a lot of people complaining that Teyla could not sense the Wraith at the start of the episode. That did not really bother me as it would not have changed anything in the development of the episode. I can't put my finger on it but their is something off on this episode. It is an interesting idea to explore more of the effect the Hoffan drug has on the Pegasus Galaxy now that Micheal isn't a serious threat but something just seems off. It was too formulaic and predictible. It was obvious to me that Carson had the plague and I could see the revolt coming a mile away. Does anyone else but me have a problem with Shepphed killing all those villagers. Yes I realize they were going to turn those aliens in to the Wraith but it just seems wrong to kill people who were just trying to protect their homes. And the Wraith just come off dumb in stragety in protecting the gate. The Hive ship should have fired the second the gate was dialed This episode falls into that category of good idea but bad execution

Lythisrose
February 4th, 2013, 03:37 PM
From Joe Mallozzi's Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/february-2-2013-news-of-note-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-continues-with-outsiders/):

OUTSIDERS (512)

Okay, Ill be honest. I dont really remember much about this episode outside of the scene where McKay and Beckett argue over the cramped seating in the dart.

I do recall one of the fan sites, again, incorrectly stating that the working title of this episode was Amort, presumably based on the fact that some Art Department sketches contained the word Amort under Episode Title. As I explained in a previous post, Amort is short for Amortize in this case, its a reference to the village set, the cost of which was amortized (written off over time) over the course of many episodes.

Actor Brendan Penny who plays the wraith technician here (and stepped in for Chris Heyderdahl in Spoils of War and Be All My Sins Rememberd) is presently playing the part of Brian Lucas on the t.v. show Motive starring Louis Ferreira (SGUs Colonel Everett Young).

Photos:
Book (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/13.jpg)


The local color (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/14.jpg)


The terrific Joel Polis as Elson. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/12.jpg)


Just like high school. Youve got the villager clique and the crew clique. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/15.jpg)


Cast or crew member? Often it was hard to tell. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/11.jpg)

Cluas
February 25th, 2013, 02:02 PM
I hated this episode. No explanations of what Carson was doing. He went back to earth in "The Seed" and I had hoped he would stay there. But no no no. "Let's bring Carson back, and not tell any one why... "
:comeon:
I was waiting for that explanation, but it never came. After 30 minutes I nearly fell asleep
:ronananime17:

Cluas
February 25th, 2013, 02:05 PM
I can answer this. You turn the episode watching into a drinking game

Good advise :D

Baron Of Hell
September 11th, 2013, 03:56 AM
I liked this episode. I enjoy Carson and was glad to have him back. I didn't get why Shep would be ok with killing people to kill the wraith, but I liked it. I didn't see those people as evil but more desperate.

This is another episode that I didn't like the first time around. I'm not sure why I like it now. Same way with the movie the 5th element. Hated it the first time but love it the 12th or so time. Multipass.

Night Maiden
September 4th, 2014, 10:14 AM
I didn't want the wraith to die. :(

Falcon Horus
September 4th, 2014, 10:33 AM
I can't for the life of me remember what this episode was about... :S ...and I've seen it at least 5 times. :eek: That either says a lot about the quality, my brain or how memorable it was.

jelgate
September 4th, 2014, 03:46 PM
Probably your brain

Falcon Horus
September 4th, 2014, 04:45 PM
Probably your brain

I knew you were gonna say that... :mckay: