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Shpinxinator
October 14th, 2008, 02:33 AM
I think it would be awesome so somehow tie in the Cthulhu Mythos somehow...I have no idea how but I think that would be so awesome

Xiphias
October 14th, 2008, 03:34 AM
I disagree. But I'm probably wrong.

kymeric
October 14th, 2008, 04:14 AM
Colour out of space seems like a good alien threat. A pervasive grey death that infects entire worlds killing most things and mutating others into ghastly forms.

Eyah eyah cuthlhu ftaghen!

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
October 14th, 2008, 04:18 AM
I agree completely. I wish a sci-fi show would use more lovecraftian elements. If they are exploring the universe it would be great to see some truly godlike nightmarish threats beyond imagination...not more dull biped aliens. Ia! Ia! Shub-Niggurath!!!

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa207/embodiedscrew/shub-niggurath.jpg

hell, my own stargate series concept had the idea of them finding abandoned ancient cyclopean cities at the edge of the universe and accidently awakening a race of "flying polps" which existed before the universe began, as well as the strange effect these pre-universal beings have on the rest of the universe with their own laws/physics....probably too "out there" for mainstream audiences though. I should really post the three page concept up somewhere though...

Naonak
October 14th, 2008, 05:52 AM
Yes, let's tie Stargate into another fictional universe... :S

Shpinxinator
October 14th, 2008, 11:03 AM
Or at least some based heavily in Lovecraftian mythos

The Prophet
October 14th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Unless Universe can come up with something original (which is hard to do, Original ideas don't exist), then the Lovecraft mythos would be perfect. Dark, Unexplored and Totally Alien.

JackHarkness_Hot
October 14th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Colour out of space seems like a good alien threat. A pervasive grey death that infects entire worlds killing most things and mutating others into ghastly forms.

Eyah eyah cuthlhu ftaghen!

Ooh kinky! :prioranime07:

Infinite-Possibilities
October 14th, 2008, 01:53 PM
I kinda thought a being like Sovereign from Mass Effect (who is inspired by Lovecraftian Mythos) would be a good villian.

ShadowMaat
October 14th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Folks have been clamoring for Lovecraftian stuff in Stargate since the days of SG-1. I used to be one of them; even wrote a crossover-ish fanfic. ;)

Now, however... I think it's a subject best left alone. The Cthulhu mythos is too easy to get wrong, as legions of cheesetastic movies prove, and I doubt TPTB would be up to the task of doing it right when they keep screwing up their own stuff all the time. :P I'm to the point where I'd rather see no Cthluhu than to see it done badly, which means TPTB are out of the picture. LOL!

Infinite-Possibilities
October 14th, 2008, 05:32 PM
I don't think we need to actually see Cthulhu. But there have been many versions of beings that sound similar and seem similar.

Warcraft's "Old Gods" are based on Lovecraft's beings. There was a character called "C'thun."

Justice League Unlimited had an apparently godlike being that was "Great Old One", called "Ikthultu"

I thought they all worked in the story fine. And came across as effective enemies to the good guys, without seeming absurd.

ShadowMaat
October 14th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Yeah, but we're talking about Stargate's writers, here. Do you seriously think they'd be able to pull off a Cthulhu-esque storyline without making it a complete embarrassment? ;)

Infinite-Possibilities
October 14th, 2008, 06:01 PM
I can't say I'm intimately familiar with Lovecraftian Fiction, but I am more familiar with beings, based on some of its concepts. It can't be too difficult to some manner of frighteningly alien and unfathomably powerful monstrosity. At the end of the day it wouldn't even need to be much like like Cthulhu visually.

As I mentioned before, someone like "Sovereign" would work well and doesn't exactly seem to be beyond what I imagine the Stargate writers would be capable of.


An Example *Mass Effect Spoilers* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvrIFIjTGt0)

Shpinxinator
October 14th, 2008, 06:29 PM
I agree with a Sovereign like being but I would like to see something that's not Man (or Alien) made. Something living maybe not even sentient but a being whose very nature is pure evil

Murzin
October 14th, 2008, 06:53 PM
i would say a situation like in call of cthulu would be bad, but i like the idea of that story about the antarctic expidition where they run across the old city would work well.

Shpinxinator
October 14th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Basically I would love to see the SGU enemy be able to be described as grotesque in every sense of the word...something VERY dark and horrific and grotesque...not something that wants power or worship just to feed

ShadowMaat
October 14th, 2008, 07:33 PM
I always thought it'd be cool to have an utterly alien enemy, one that's unknowable and unapproachable and maybe even one whose sole purpose is to wipe out all life in the universe that isn't it. However, I was informed that this was a hopelessly naive and ridiculous wish because no audience could possibly accept an enemy if they can't identify with them. :rolleyes:

Oh well. I guess that leaves out malevolent tentacled nightmares from beyond the depths of space, too. ;)

Shpinxinator
October 14th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Well think about it...the last great enemy were evil ascended beings....basically demi-gods...the only thing that could really pose a threat now would have to be a...well..a God a vast semi-corporeal being.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
October 15th, 2008, 09:05 AM
well, lovecraftian is just a term for a certain "style", often called "cosmic horror" but some of us.

It doesnt have to be part of the cthulhu mythos EXACTLY.

Look at films like Carpenters The Thing, possibly the most lovecraftian film ever. Infact, its rather reminiscent of "Mountains of madness".

Also, cthulhu himself is the most overused of the Old ones IMO. Yog-Sothoth, Nyaralathotep and Shub-Niggurath are the coolest ;) and I love the Yithians, Gugs and Flying polyps!

And yeah, iv wanted lovecraftian elements since SG1 began.

I also mentioned previously how the Necrons from Warhammer 40,000 would fit Stargate very well, they are both lovecraftian and have a stargate esque feel. Just one example of how that kind of thing could fit seamlessly into Stargate mythology and expanding it without making it contrived.

So I stand by my idea of pre-universal beings based on lovecraftian design, very "out there", very "stargate", something fresh and different for the mythos and would fit the "grander" scale of the new series....

ShadowMaat brings an excellent point that doing it not at all is better than making it cheesey though. I for one am sick of cheese dominating the sci-fi genre in TV form.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
October 15th, 2008, 09:08 AM
I always thought it'd be cool to have an utterly alien enemy, one that's unknowable and unapproachable and maybe even one whose sole purpose is to wipe out all life in the universe that isn't it. However, I was informed that this was a hopelessly naive and ridiculous wish because no audience could possibly accept an enemy if they can't identify with them. :rolleyes:

Oh well. I guess that leaves out malevolent tentacled nightmares from beyond the depths of space, too. ;)


Urgh, you hit a nerve there. One of my biggest pet-peeves with TV sci-fans is that whole narrow-minded attitude of "wah we dont want something we cant relate with" BS, when sci-fi is meant to show us things we've never dreamt of, thought of or imagined before and limiting that because we "dont relate to it" goes against the core concept of sci-fi exploring THE UNKNOWN.

Hell, I will go further and add that I feel sci-fi, like fantasy is an exploration of our own imaginations. But unlike fantasy, sci-fi to me is speculative of what could exist, what could happen, what might happen and such. Limiting that just goes against what it means IMO. The imagination should never be limited! only pushed further into new unexplored areas of thought and creation.

Shpinxinator
October 15th, 2008, 09:40 AM
I completely agree...Michael Shanks said the Ori were a great baddy simply because there was nothing to relate to...not even a face

There need to be more horror, more disturbing...ttthhhings.


These people are not only going to be in another galaxy but across the Universe completely cut off from home...in a sense it's almost like being buried alive...and the bad guy should be just as nightmarish

ShadowMaat
October 15th, 2008, 04:50 PM
I think one of my greatest disappointments with the Wraith is that we actually SAW them. I could've sworn early hints about the show had said that they'd be a sort of unseen enemy- or at least not seen very often. Pity they didn't- or weren't allowed to- stick with that; might have made the wraith less laughable. :P

EDIT: as for the non-Cthluhu denizens of the Lovecraftian mythos, I'm currently wearing my Kingsport Moon-beasts junior baseball league shirt. :D

kymeric
October 16th, 2008, 12:00 PM
Something in these unknown galaxies is bound to notice a little ship full of hundreds of DELICIOUS SOULS.

Shpinxinator
October 21st, 2008, 11:19 PM
Something in these unknown galaxies is bound to notice a little ship full of hundreds of DELICIOUS SOULS.

I have seen my death...humans need not bother me with it.

Infinite-Possibilities
October 21st, 2008, 11:49 PM
I agree with a Sovereign like being but I would like to see something that's not Man (or Alien) made. Something living maybe not even sentient but a being whose very nature is pure evil

I don't mean to be a "quibble person" but actually Sovereign's origin is a complete mystery.

Anyway, I think there is a certain limit as to how unfathomable powerful you can make an enemy.

And also personally I found the Ori to be a relatively weak enemy simply because we never saw them. How could they possibly built a threat from something we never see? The Ori weren't frightening because we only ever heard about them.

I myself am of the opinion there doesn't need to be more "horror" per say . But we could use a villian which is much more menacing. I don't know if we need one to "relate" to but I think we need something we can at least pin a face (or maybe not a "face" exactly but something) on.

There was something that came to me while I watched the Ark of Truth for the first time. The Book of Origin talked about a mount that was the source of all evil. What if they uncovered a place that was more like that description. Say a massive great tyrannical religious empire that has hidden places that contain REAL evil creatures. That'd be more similar to the Imperium of Man vs The Forces of Chaos from Warhammer 40-K.

I think it would be interesting to have some alien creature that at first is so unfathomable it doesn't consider humanoid beings more than microbes, but once they begin being appearing as a threat it learns to communicate with them to show it's awesome superiority.

Shpinxinator
October 21st, 2008, 11:54 PM
I don't mean to be a "quibble person" but actually Sovereign's origin is a complete mystery.

Anyway, I think there is a certain limit as to how unfathomable powerful you can make an enemy.

And also personally I found the Ori to be a relatively weak enemy simply because we never saw them. How could they possibly built a threat from something we never see? The Ori weren't frightening because we only ever heard about them.

I myself am of the opinion there doesn't need to be more "horror" per say . But we could use a villian which is much more menacing. I don't know if we need one to "relate" to but I think we need something we can at least pin a face (or maybe not a "face" exactly but something) on.

There was something that came to me while I watched the Ark of Truth for the first time. The Book of Origin talked about a mount that was the source of all evil. What if they uncovered a place that was more like that description. Say a massive great tyrannical religious empire that has hidden places that contain REAL evil creatures. That'd be more similar to the Imperium of Man vs The Forces of Chaos from Warhammer 40-K.

I think it would be interesting to have some alien creature that at first is so unfathomable it doesn't consider humanoid beings more than microbes, but once they begin being appearing as a threat it learns to communicate with them to show it's awesome superiority.

I see what your saying but the menacing angle has been done...SGU needs something different...something...meta-physical

Raven_CWG
October 22nd, 2008, 05:31 PM
It seems to me that this whole Lovecraft idea would be far better suited to another show, like Doctor Who for example, then it would ever be for Stargate. In fact something along those lines was done quite well on Doctor Who in the 2006 series episodes "The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit".

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
October 24th, 2008, 12:18 AM
It seems to me that this whole Lovecraft idea would be far better suited to another show, like Doctor Who for example, then it would ever be for Stargate. In fact something along those lines was done quite well on Doctor Who in the 2006 series episodes "The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit".

man, I have the opposite opinion. I thought that story was awful, after that I just couldnt watch anymore of that show. I think lovecraftian elements would suit Stargate much more. Check out Games Workshop's Necrons to see how id envision it. You of course, are entitled to disagree with me back :D

Occulus
October 24th, 2008, 11:30 PM
man, I have the opposite opinion. I thought that story was awful, after that I just couldnt watch anymore of that show.

Have you seen "Blink"? That redeems DW in my eyes. It's the DW eppy with the weeping angels. I love that episode- in fact, I've used it to introduce people to the series as a whole. The Torchwood analog to that is "Adrift", by the way. In both cases, the stories were written in such a way that they didn't necessarily have to include any of the characters from either series for the stories to work well. Maybe that's the secret.

As for Lovecraftian elements in SGU: Dead Space (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dead+space&search_type=&aq=f).

WARNING: The above gameplay and promotional YouTube videos include extreme violence, horror, and gore. Proceed at own risk. But hey- we were talking about Lovecraft, for frak's sake. The creatures in Dead Space seem to be in that vaunted tradition of utter depravity.

jelgate
October 25th, 2008, 07:11 AM
What is Lovecraft?

nx01a
October 25th, 2008, 07:22 AM
I hate constantly seeing aliens that either look like us or that think like us. What's wrong with the Universe team encountering an entire galaxy orbiting the sleeping Azatoth, inhabited by bizarre tentacled horrors worshiped by the idiot humans or aliens there? The Wraith are predators, therefore evil; the Goa'uld are evil because of genetic memory... What's wrong with having an alien enemy who isn't good or evil as we understand, whose actions may inadvertently help or hinder us?

It's all about how the concept is executed. What's wrong with a Stargate team encountering something they genuinely can't comprehend? How new and groundbreaking can Universe be if we see the same humanoid staff weapon-holding evil aliens across every galaxy? To say that the audience won't accept something they don't completely understand gives the audience the short end of the intellectual stick, right or wrong. :mckay:

nx01a
October 25th, 2008, 07:52 AM
I think one of my greatest disappointments with the Wraith is that we actually SAW them. I could've sworn early hints about the show had said that they'd be a sort of unseen enemy- or at least not seen very often. Pity they didn't- or weren't allowed to- stick with that; might have made the wraith less laughable. :P

EDIT: as for the non-Cthluhu denizens of the Lovecraftian mythos, I'm currently wearing my Kingsport Moon-beasts junior baseball league shirt. :DThe Wraith were terrifying in season 1 because we were at such a disadvantage against them and because we saw the horror and terror of cullings. They were virtually immortal, unstoppable vampires. Now they're a joke, apart from Todd, of course. IMO, making them more 'understandable' made them more human and far less detached and scary.

I'm supposed to get a Miskatonic U t shirt for Xmas.:P