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Arturis
October 13th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Other than the presence of the Stargate itself I really wish TPTB could have come up with a show that has NOTHING to do with something the Ancients did, something the Ancients created, or anything to do with the their back story. Quite simply put, the Ancients have been DONE TO DEATH. Why not take the franchise back to its core or exploration instead or wandering all over the universe trying to find some piece of tech invented by some race that's been extinct for 10 millenia. Atlantis was enough and Universe is just going to be Atlantix redux with a twist of Infinity *shudders...*. There is so much left to do in the Milky Way and areas we already know about. Stories with the Asgard, Nox, and maybe even the Furlings at some point would be interesting, but no more Ancients.

I loved Stargate Continuum. You know why? They only ever even said the word "Ancient" once. I've had enough of the Ancients and hopefully some of the rest of have as well because if not I'm about to be severely dogpiled upon.

DmitriWillguard
October 13th, 2008, 03:23 PM
I was under the impression we didn't mention Infinity in polite company?

TheHumanElement
October 13th, 2008, 04:18 PM
I don't see how you can have a story about an ancient ship and not use Ancients in the story. They may not be as prominently used as in SGA, but they probably will play some type of role in the overall story. I like Ancients tech and when they discover new Ancient sites. So bring on the ancients. And if you try to dogpile me, I'm gonna Google you! j/k :)

LordAnubis82
October 13th, 2008, 05:24 PM
I don't see how you can have a story about an ancient ship and not use Ancients in the story. They may not be as prominently used as in SGA, but they probably will play some type of role in the overall story. I like Ancients tech and when they discover new Ancient sites. So bring on the ancients. And if you try to dogpile me, I'm gonna Google you! j/k :)

i 2nd that. Ancient tech is SO cool and really advanced. they make the other races look weak. LOL. with the exception of the Asgard of course.

LostCityGuardian
October 13th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Virtually everything in Stargate links back to the Ancients in one way or another. I don't think its possible at this point to have a show that does not have some Ancient link, even indirectly (like the most obvious being the human race as an engineered second evolution of the Ancients).

ablevins425
October 13th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Other than the presence of the Stargate itself I really wish TPTB could have come up with a show that has NOTHING to do with something the Ancients did, something the Ancients created, or anything to do with the their back story. Quite simply put, the Ancients have been DONE TO DEATH. Why not take the franchise back to its core or exploration instead or wandering all over the universe trying to find some piece of tech invented by some race that's been extinct for 10 millenia. Atlantis was enough and Universe is just going to be Atlantix redux with a twist of Infinity *shudders...*. There is so much left to do in the Milky Way and areas we already know about. Stories with the Asgard, Nox, and maybe even the Furlings at some point would be interesting, but no more Ancients.

I loved Stargate Continuum. You know why? They only ever even said the word "Ancient" once. I've had enough of the Ancients and hopefully some of the rest of have as well because if not I'm about to be severely dogpiled upon.

Boooooo....

I love the Ancients, and don't believe they have been in the shows enough.

jelgate
October 13th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Thats like saying I want Star Trek without Klingons

Replicator Fifth
October 13th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Boooooo....

I love the Ancients, and don't believe they have been in the shows enough.
It was Good idea for SG-1 and maybe early Atlantis but...yeah. there God in Stargate. "ooo we need a new weapon to defeat this new enemy! lets dig into the Ancient's records!" too, convenient for a third series to draw from. they should explore new races and advanced technology that is different from the Ancient's. the closest thing was the Asgard (then the killed themselves :mckay:) The Stargate Writers need to be creative! *they should have aliens that look like cephalopods . some ally to make that look nothing like a homo sapian (even the Asgard had a vaguely human look) I'll wait to see how they do with Universe. Character development was very good in Atlantis and SG-1 and I hope to see more in Universe.

Professor D.H.D. Puddlejumper
October 13th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Personally, I can't get enough of the Ancients.;)

TheHumanElement
October 13th, 2008, 08:59 PM
It was Good idea for SG-1 and maybe early Atlantis but...yeah. there God in Stargate. "ooo we need a new weapon to defeat this new enemy! lets dig into the Ancient's records!" too, convenient for a third series to draw from. they should explore new races and advanced technology that is different from the Ancient's. the closest thing was the Asgard (then the killed themselves :mckay:) The Stargate Writers need to be creative! *they should have aliens that look like cephalopods . some ally to make that look nothing like a homo sapian (even the Asgard had a vaguely human look) I'll wait to see how they do with Universe. Character development was very good in Atlantis and SG-1 and I hope to see more in Universe.

I see your point. I mean the ancients can't always be the solution for every problem, but i don't think that's reason enough to phase them out of the show. Instead of phasing them out, they should instead take the development of the Ancients within the series in a new direction. For example they can address the relationship with the Furlings, Nox, and Asgard.

I don't think they should create aliens that use too much make up in the show though. I think it will waste too much money from their budget. They should pour more money into getting better writers instead. I wouldn't mind seeing more puppets though, like the Asgard. Farscape did a great job with puppets in their show. If you made the aliens of Stargate like the aliens of Farscape, I'd be down with that, but they'd have to do it sparingly.

Tupopoflungo
October 13th, 2008, 09:54 PM
Could be i misunderstood the plot details of the show, but I am pretty sure that we gate to an ancient ship, and then have to try and find our way back to earth...Not go searching for ancient weapons, or the like...I'm pretty sure we're going to be going out to explore totally new planets...


That's just what the plot releases say. If you guys have more informaton...please...share it with the class...

LostCityGuardian
October 13th, 2008, 10:16 PM
That's just what the plot releases say. If you guys have more informaton...please...share it with the class...

Nope, that's pretty much all we've heard.

I think we are building a tower of cards in this forum on top of a nonexistant base, the plot and character summaries. As soon as TPTB changes one thing and pulls a card out, all our speculation is going to come crashing down.

Which means we can start all over again.

thekillman
October 13th, 2008, 10:51 PM
fun aint it.



i hate the ancients, as TPTB cant keep em up as greatest race ever. lanteans are a disgrace. the asgard wear the crown now. SGU will probably be about annother ancient faction which does even worse. even though i cant wait for SGU

Tupopoflungo
October 13th, 2008, 11:07 PM
Nope, that's pretty much all we've heard.

I think we are building a tower of cards in this forum on top of a nonexistant base, the plot and character summaries. As soon as TPTB changes one thing and pulls a card out, all our speculation is going to come crashing down.

Which means we can start all over again.

That's what I thought...


grr...some people make me quite angry with their...malcontent...and assumptions.........GAH!

Jack_Bauer
October 13th, 2008, 11:12 PM
Look the way I see it is that one of two things can happen with SGU:

1. The Ancient ship premise will be used to simply get the team strandad and then they will find new enemies and technology which the Ancients havn't influenced, or

2. TPTB will pull some unoriginal crap and have the Ancients settle an entire galaxy and seed more primitive and BORING humans

LostCityGuardian
October 13th, 2008, 11:28 PM
grr...some people make me quite angry with their...malcontent...and assumptions.........GAH!

I'm feeling that way myself. We know (and I use the word loosely) three things about SGU:


A brief plot summary of the main ideas behind the first season
Very brief character descriptions of some main characters for casting.
An ambiguous statement about the show being aimed at a younger audience.


Anything else that is said on this forum is speculation or fabrication. And in my opinion, this is not enough to make any sort of call about how good or bad SGU will be, or to decide whether or not to watch it. With respect to those people who have decided that SGU will be bad (or good), or that they think they know enough to decide not to watch it, I think you're wrong - there simply isn't enough information yet to decide this (obviously, if your decision not to watch is based on other factors such as disillusionment with SGA, then fair enough). That is just my opinion, and I frankly don't care about the viewing habits of anyone except myself, but I think that if the sole reason you're not going to watch SGU is because you have decided on the basis of the information that has been made public, then you're making a bad call.

Tupopoflungo
October 14th, 2008, 12:33 AM
I'm feeling that way myself. We know (and I use the word loosely) three things about SGU:


A brief plot summary of the main ideas behind the first season
Very brief character descriptions of some main characters for casting.
An ambiguous statement about the show being aimed at a younger audience.


Anything else that is said on this forum is speculation or fabrication. And in my opinion, this is not enough to make any sort of call about how good or bad SGU will be, or to decide whether or not to watch it. With respect to those people who have decided that SGU will be bad (or good), or that they think they know enough to decide not to watch it, I think you're wrong - there simply isn't enough information yet to decide this (obviously, if your decision not to watch is based on other factors such as disillusionment with SGA, then fair enough). That is just my opinion, and I frankly don't care about the viewing habits of anyone except myself, but I think that if the sole reason you're not going to watch SGU is because you have decided on the basis of the information that has been made public, then you're making a bad call.

to paraphrase the great Lewis Black: Frakin A...

lol...

But seriously, I so agree with you on this. Its really aggravating for people to be judging a shows worth solely on what they have heard so far...WHEN IT HASNT EVEN BEEN CAST YET!...it's ridiculous. I actually read in another thread that "SG1 is definitely better than SGU" as if he had seen SGU in its full run(however long that is going to be) and could compare it to SG1 already...grrrrrr..........why must people be so close minded?lol

LostCityGuardian
October 14th, 2008, 01:30 AM
But seriously, I so agree with you on this. Its really aggravating for people to be judging a shows worth solely on what they have heard so far...WHEN IT HASNT EVEN BEEN CAST YET!...it's ridiculous. I actually read in another thread that "SG1 is definitely better than SGU" as if he had seen SGU in its full run(however long that is going to be) and could compare it to SG1 already...grrrrrr..........why must people be so close minded?lol

Thank you! Perhaps there is still reason on Gateworld! :)

Tupopoflungo
October 14th, 2008, 03:33 AM
Thank you! Perhaps there is still reason on Gateworld! :)


Yes, but it's been my experience that you have to wade through a lot of BS to get to it :P lol

Take this thread...we would HAVE A SHOW! without the ancients...AT ALL...No SG1, No SGA, NOTHING!!! How can we make a show about stargate that has nothing to do with the ancients. While you say aside from using the stargate...what about when we encounter problems with the gate? should we not mention the ancients design of the system? or should it be like:(we'll use SG1 characters for simplistic understanding)

Sam: There seems to be a problem with the Stargate sir.

Hammond: Well what about the guys who built it? Did those mysterious people who we cannot mention for the sake of the fans design something that we have to bypass with our jury-rigged DHD. Oh wait...You messed up Colonel Carter, you can't say Stargate becuase that's what they who must not be named called it! QUICK!!!! Someone please come up with a new name for it!




hehe

Tri_rule
October 14th, 2008, 06:29 AM
Other than the presence of the Stargate itself I really wish TPTB could have come up with a show that has NOTHING to do with something the Ancients did, something the Ancients created, or anything to do with the their back story. Quite simply put, the Ancients have been DONE TO DEATH. Why not take the franchise back to its core or exploration instead or wandering all over the universe trying to find some piece of tech invented by some race that's been extinct for 10 millenia. Atlantis was enough and Universe is just going to be Atlantix redux with a twist of Infinity *shudders...*. There is so much left to do in the Milky Way and areas we already know about. Stories with the Asgard, Nox, and maybe even the Furlings at some point would be interesting, but no more Ancients.

I loved Stargate Continuum. You know why? They only ever even said the word "Ancient" once. I've had enough of the Ancients and hopefully some of the rest of have as well because if not I'm about to be severely dogpiled upon.



I feel your pain truly i do... but it seems that modern-day stargate can't be done without the Ancients..... It's been too long since the old days of Slightly-original storylines and genuine alien species that aren't Human rip-offs....*sigh*....

NIMBUS
October 14th, 2008, 07:03 AM
I wish there could be a show that has NOTHING to do the the Ancients
you wish won't be granted... and if you really want that switch to another channel...

LostCityGuardian
October 14th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Yes, but it's been my experience that you have to wade through a lot of BS to get to it :P lol

Take this thread...we would HAVE A SHOW! without the ancients...AT ALL...No SG1, No SGA, NOTHING!!! How can we make a show about stargate that has nothing to do with the ancients. While you say aside from using the stargate...what about when we encounter problems with the gate? should we not mention the ancients design of the system? or should it be like:(we'll use SG1 characters for simplistic understanding)

Sam: There seems to be a problem with the Stargate sir.

Hammond: Well what about the guys who built it? Did those mysterious people who we cannot mention for the sake of the fans design something that we have to bypass with our jury-rigged DHD. Oh wait...You messed up Colonel Carter, you can't say Stargate becuase that's what they who must not be named called it! QUICK!!!! Someone please come up with a new name for it!




hehe

Exactly. As the series is now, everything relates back to the Ancients. So unless it ignores everything that has gone before, it can't ignore the Ancients (and I can just hear the wailing on Gateworld if they stopped using the Stargate). :)

GhostPoet
October 14th, 2008, 10:56 AM
How about a show about only scientists and all they do is talk technobabble and discuss situations...sometimes running away from battles. Or discussing the possibility of running away.

Alteran of Atlantis
October 19th, 2008, 05:38 PM
Other than the presence of the Stargate itself I really wish TPTB could have come up with a show that has NOTHING to do with something the Ancients did, something the Ancients created, or anything to do with the their back story. Quite simply put, the Ancients have been DONE TO DEATH. Why not take the franchise back to its core or exploration instead or wandering all over the universe trying to find some piece of tech invented by some race that's been extinct for 10 millenia. Atlantis was enough and Universe is just going to be Atlantix redux with a twist of Infinity *shudders...*. There is so much left to do in the Milky Way and areas we already know about. Stories with the Asgard, Nox, and maybe even the Furlings at some point would be interesting, but no more Ancients.

I loved Stargate Continuum. You know why? They only ever even said the word "Ancient" once. I've had enough of the Ancients and hopefully some of the rest of have as well because if not I'm about to be severely dogpiled upon.

Are you insulting my race?!

Personally I can't get enough of the Ancients. I wished they were mentioned more, for heavens sake! I even wish I was one.

Sorry, major Ancient lover here.

poundpuppy29
October 22nd, 2008, 01:34 PM
But they invented the Stargate and besides I like the Ancient storyline

Flyboy
October 22nd, 2008, 02:01 PM
But they invented the Stargate and besides I like the Ancient storyline
But, like everything, not everyone does.

Everyone has a right to enjoy or dislike elements of the show, but I say to those who tell people who don't like the Ancient focus to "Watch another channel" to, (and I say this politely) go stick it. Just because the Ancients annoy us to high teeth does not mean we don't like the show.

The biggest problem is this for us, though we'd had hints about the ancients for a while, the whole Ancient vibe really kicked off with Season 7 and carried to Season 8 of Sg1. Fine, ok, it then spun off SGA, which is MAJORLY ancient based, as heck, it's their city. I've never once been annoyed by Ancients in Atlantis, for me, that's what the show was about.

MY personal issue, was that SG1 could have easily carried on without the Ancients being at the heart of everything, and left it for Atlantis, my issue was over saturation of Ancients EVERYWHERE. After having the damn *******s showed down our throats for the past 6 years, it would be NICE if SGU, whilst obviously having to reference them, wasn't ABOUT them, in the same way SG1 pre S7 referenced the Ancients, but wasn't ABOUT them.

ToasterOnFire
October 22nd, 2008, 03:29 PM
I'm not a big fan of the Ancients after TPTB went out of their way to portray them as such doinks in SGA.

Anon
October 22nd, 2008, 05:07 PM
BAD IDEA, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO No acients, no stargate! THE FRACKING SHOW WAS NAMED AFTER A ACIENT DEVICE, THAT WOULD BE STUPID

jenks
October 22nd, 2008, 05:08 PM
They're a civilization that was around for millions of years. Think about it.

Jack_Bauer
October 22nd, 2008, 05:23 PM
They're a civilization that was around for millions of years. Think about it.

They aren;t the only civilisation though...

jenks
October 22nd, 2008, 05:59 PM
They aren;t the only civilisation though...

What I mean is, no matter how much the Ancients looked like 'doinks' in Atlantis it really doesn't count for that much considering there ridiculously long history. As a civilization, any mistakes they made have made in the short time they were in the Pegasus galaxy are tiny compared to the rest of their heritage, it would be like saying the Human race are idiots because I stubbed my toe last week...

Jack_Bauer
October 22nd, 2008, 08:51 PM
What I mean is, no matter how much the Ancients looked like 'doinks' in Atlantis it really doesn't count for that much considering there ridiculously long history. As a civilization, any mistakes they made have made in the short time they were in the Pegasus galaxy are tiny compared to the rest of their heritage, it would be like saying the Human race are idiots because I stubbed my toe last week...


Fair enough, hopefully in Universe the Ancients will cease to be seen as 'doinks'.

Flyboy
October 23rd, 2008, 04:03 AM
BAD IDEA, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO No acients, no stargate! THE FRACKING SHOW WAS NAMED AFTER A ACIENT DEVICE, THAT WOULD BE STUPID
Rubbish. SG1 managed succesfully with very little Ancient plotlines for the first 6 years.

poisonivy
October 23rd, 2008, 06:12 AM
I loved the ancient characters in Stargate. If anything, we should see more of them

Betelgeuze
October 23rd, 2008, 10:39 AM
They might not be the only advanced race, but they are the most advanced and influential race in the SGA universe so far. I do hope that in SGU there will be advanced races who's technology is not somehow related to that of the Ancients, and who are not influenced by the Ancients other than by the presence of a stargate on their planet.

What i would also really like is a non-ascended Ancient as a regular or recurring character in the stargate universe, if the Ancient would be Janus i would be ecstatic. Maybe he can be can be an advisor to Earth, one Ancient wouldn't make things too easy.

Alteran of Atlantis
October 23rd, 2008, 03:47 PM
What i would also really like is a non-ascended Ancient as a regular or recurring character in the stargate universe, if the Ancient would be Janus i would be ecstatic. Maybe he can be can be an advisor to Earth, one Ancient wouldn't make things too easy.

That would be nice. I'm sick of seeing Ancients either die or Ascend at the end of the episode. Personally, I love them, and I think that would be great if an Ancient was a regular of recurring character. I like them, especially Janus, but TPTB don't listen to us. We're only the fans, after all...

Atlanis
October 24th, 2008, 11:18 AM
Of all the races in the stargate unavirse the aincents are the ones that have sliped up the most (apart form earth) were ever they have left their tecnolagey it has brung untold missery to at least two Galaxies while it was not their intention it has happended so it shows that even with so much advanced tecnolagey they are still falable like the rest of us and that is an intresting way of showing a super power
and it makes the aincents one of the most intresting people in the unavirse

GhostPoet
October 24th, 2008, 11:20 AM
How about a race of ancient ancients? You know...ancients that are older than the current ancients. :)

RepliVeggie
November 2nd, 2008, 09:43 PM
I disagree the Ancients are amazing and we know .000000000001% about them.

Flyboy
November 3rd, 2008, 02:30 AM
I disagree the Ancients are amazing and we know .000000000001% about them.
Why are they amazing?

What makes a bunch of humans that were around millions of years ago amazing?

What is it about humans wearing white clothing with fancy weapons and mind control make people go weak at the knees? (Jedi much?)

KlaxxonBlue
November 4th, 2008, 05:40 AM
Other than the presence of the Stargate itself I really wish TPTB could have come up with a show that has NOTHING to do with something the Ancients did, something the Ancients created, or anything to do with the their back story. Quite simply put, the Ancients have been DONE TO DEATH. Why not take the franchise back to its core or exploration instead or wandering all over the universe trying to find some piece of tech invented by some race that's been extinct for 10 millenia. Atlantis was enough and Universe is just going to be Atlantix redux with a twist of Infinity *shudders...*. There is so much left to do in the Milky Way and areas we already know about. Stories with the Asgard, Nox, and maybe even the Furlings at some point would be interesting, but no more Ancients.

I loved Stargate Continuum. You know why? They only ever even said the word "Ancient" once. I've had enough of the Ancients and hopefully some of the rest of have as well because if not I'm about to be severely dogpiled upon.

The Ancient/Ori/Ascended story archs are the only reason I even watch the shows. Atlantis barely has any real involvement with Ancient Tech or the Ancients as a whole. They always seem to be some off thought. Not a real part of the story of Atlantis.

A show with no Ancient involvement has absolutely no interest for me.

I'm BARELY and I do mean BARELY interested in Atlantis, and there is no love loss about it's cancellation on my end.

Just my 2 cents.

KlaxxonBlue

g.o.d
November 4th, 2008, 05:57 AM
Why are they amazing?

What makes a bunch of humans that were around millions of years ago amazing?

What is it about humans wearing white clothing with fancy weapons and mind control make people go weak at the knees? (Jedi much?)

they're amazing. They're perfect proof that even highly technological advanced civilization can behave like bunch of retarded morons

poundpuppy29
November 4th, 2008, 10:41 AM
But, like everything, not everyone does.

Everyone has a right to enjoy or dislike elements of the show, but I say to those who tell people who don't like the Ancient focus to "Watch another channel" to, (and I say this politely) go stick it. Just because the Ancients annoy us to high teeth does not mean we don't like the show.

The biggest problem is this for us, though we'd had hints about the ancients for a while, the whole Ancient vibe really kicked off with Season 7 and carried to Season 8 of Sg1. Fine, ok, it then spun off SGA, which is MAJORLY ancient based, as heck, it's their city. I've never once been annoyed by Ancients in Atlantis, for me, that's what the show was about.

MY personal issue, was that SG1 could have easily carried on without the Ancients being at the heart of everything, and left it for Atlantis, my issue was over saturation of Ancients EVERYWHERE. After having the damn *******s showed down our throats for the past 6 years, it would be NICE if SGU, whilst obviously having to reference them, wasn't ABOUT them, in the same way SG1 pre S7 referenced the Ancients, but wasn't ABOUT them.

They have been around since the first season Torment of Tantulas, Maternal Instinct, Asension among others they have always been around Window of Opertunity another with an ancient device the Ancients were first brought up in season 2 I think when they were given a name the ep was The Fifth Race

Flyboy
November 4th, 2008, 01:46 PM
They have been around since the first season Torment of Tantulas, Maternal Instinct, Asension among others they have always been around Window of Opertunity another with an ancient device the Ancients were first brought up in season 2 I think when they were given a name the ep was The Fifth Race
Read what I said again.


So what if they've been around since then? So have the Furlings.

My point was that we didn't have their existence and role shoved down our throats pre S7.

Aewon
November 5th, 2008, 10:35 AM
Personally, I want Stargate to be a saga. And sagas have connections beyond the loose connections of mere series. If they are going to introduce a whole new powerful race with no connections to the Four Race Alliance there needs to be a d*** good reason for it.

The Lost Tribe spoiler:

Because of that I think it was important that the "new" race in the Pegasus Galaxy turned out to be the Asgard.

Flyboy
November 5th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Personally, I want Stargate to be a saga. And sagas have connections beyond the loose connections of mere series. If they are going to introduce a whole new powerful race with no connections to the Four Race Alliance there needs to be a d*** good reason for it.

The Lost Tribe spoiler:

Because of that I think it was important that the "new" race in the Pegasus Galaxy turned out to be the Asgard.
How about... the universe is massive and the four races can't get everywhere, and superpowers are bound to spring up all over the place...

SheilaJane47
November 5th, 2008, 02:57 PM
The Ancients have been a key part of the mythology since season two, really... in The Fifth Race. I agree that we should start branching out again, but, remember, the Nox, Furlings, and Asguard were all members of the alliance that the Ancients were also a part of. It is entirely plausible that Universe will allow us to get insites into those races as well, as they are interconnected with the Ancients.

ASAKATA
November 5th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Asking for a Stargate show that has nothing to do with Ancients is like asking for a Battlestar Galactica show without Cylons, or Star Trek show with no Vulcans, impossible and implausible. I love those uppity better than thou Ancients, lol

Flyboy
November 6th, 2008, 09:03 AM
Asking for a Stargate show that has nothing to do with Ancients is like asking for a Battlestar Galactica show without Cylons, or Star Trek show with no Vulcans, impossible and implausible. I love those uppity better than thou Ancients, lol
For the last time.

NO.

IT.

ISN'T.

If SG1 S1-6 can get by with mentioning the Ancients only in passing until "Frozen", then why do you think having a show that doesn't focus on them (note - not denying their existence) wouldn't work. Particularly in a part of the universe they've NEVER BEEN TO. In that case, so what if the ship is Ancient, the rest of the universe sure isn't.


Any actually, were the Vulcans even IN Deep Space 9?! Apart from maybe one episode?


Considering the true spirit of Stargate started as mythology, gods, advanced aliens, military teams, exploring the unknown, it's VERY possible to have Stargate without the Ancients.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
November 6th, 2008, 03:39 PM
If SG1 S1-6 can get by with mentioning the Ancients only in passing until "Frozen", then why do you think having a show that doesn't focus on them (note - not denying their existence) wouldn't work. Particularly in a part of the universe they've NEVER BEEN TO. In that case, so what if the ship is Ancient, the rest of the universe sure isn't.


Any actually, were the Vulcans even IN Deep Space 9?! Apart from maybe one episode?


Considering the true spirit of Stargate started as mythology, gods, advanced aliens, military teams, exploring the unknown, it's VERY possible to have Stargate without the Ancients.

well, if it means anything I completely agree with you on this subject. I'd rather see other old races, especially if its in the rest of the universe. Humanoids are so boring and overdone in televised sci-fi IMO. I always saw SG as more an exploration of tying ancient mythologies and civilizations, gods and archaeology into a sci-fi mythology, and theres way more to do than just Ancient stuff. I want to see some aeons old terminator style machine race, or some lovecraftian esque "gods", and the less symetry the better :D

Flyboy
November 7th, 2008, 01:44 AM
well, if it means anything I completely agree with you on this subject. I'd rather see other old races, especially if its in the rest of the universe. Humanoids are so boring and overdone in televised sci-fi IMO. I always saw SG as more an exploration of tying ancient mythologies and civilizations, gods and archaeology into a sci-fi mythology, and theres way more to do than just Ancient stuff. I want to see some aeons old terminator style machine race, or some lovecraftian esque "gods", and the less symetry the better :D
The entire of a Lovecraftian SGU would be something that would appeal to be greatly. The sheer expanse of the universe, to stare into the void, I think that would be utterly awesome, because the sights that must be out there God knows how far away from Earth, further than Pegasus, it would be a fitting place to discover creatures from before the dawn of time.

DetriusXii
November 9th, 2008, 02:03 PM
well, if it means anything I completely agree with you on this subject. I'd rather see other old races, especially if its in the rest of the universe. Humanoids are so boring and overdone in televised sci-fi IMO. I always saw SG as more an exploration of tying ancient mythologies and civilizations, gods and archaeology into a sci-fi mythology, and theres way more to do than just Ancient stuff. I want to see some aeons old terminator style machine race, or some lovecraftian esque "gods", and the less symetry the better :D

I miss the old Stargate aswell. There was something magical in the Stargates, knowing that they were created by the Ancients, but never knowing what the Ancients were. My imagine lead me to believe they were squidlike beings. My suspension of disbelief was still there until they started connecting everything to the Ancients.

By season 6, we learn that the Ancients are the ascended beings and that the Ancients are humans. Making the ancients human destroyed my suspension because now us Stargate viewers somehow had to reconcile evolution with a larger origin. it was never explained why the Ancients seeded primitive human forms rather than advanced Ancient forms. It was never explained how the great alliance happened and I believe the writers retconned it because of their shortsightedness. Not only that, but we learn that humans occupy several galaxies and several planes of existence. It was just too much to absorb and the mythology got shattered. And by later seasons, we get no hint of a non-Ancient alien species existing. The Replicators, Wraith, and humans all had Ancient origins. Likely the Serrakin, too, if their environment made it impossible for the human-forms to grow their. The universe became boring. Everything became all too human. And the writers were doing their best to sever the remaining connections to the three remaining power alien species: the Asgard, the Go'uld, and the Nox.

What's worse, they decided to make evil Ancients (tying into the fact that the Ancients were ascended). There was no way to have a plausible show when you're fighting the equivalent of the Q-continuum. One is left wondering why the Ori didn't attempt to expand outside their galaxy. After all, the ascended beings were unstoppable war machines (Chaya from Atlantis, Oma from SG-1) so there's no possible reason why the Ori limited their population when it could create more worship.

So yes, the Ancients screwed the show up and I'd be happy if they disappeared. And if the ascended plane disappeared. We don't have to see the Furlings or the Crystal skull aliens, but I do not want to see the Ancients again. They've damaged the writing of two shows. The writers need to learn from their mistakes and stop writing them into the plot.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
November 10th, 2008, 04:05 AM
I miss the old Stargate aswell. There was something magical in the Stargates, knowing that they were created by the Ancients, but never knowing what the Ancients were. My imagine lead me to believe they were squidlike beings. My suspension of disbelief was still there until they started connecting everything to the Ancients.

By season 6, we learn that the Ancients are the ascended beings and that the Ancients are humans. Making the ancients human destroyed my suspension because now us Stargate viewers somehow had to reconcile evolution with a larger origin. it was never explained why the Ancients seeded primitive human forms rather than advanced Ancient forms. It was never explained how the great alliance happened and I believe the writers retconned it because of their shortsightedness. Not only that, but we learn that humans occupy several galaxies and several planes of existence. It was just too much to absorb and the mythology got shattered. And by later seasons, we get no hint of a non-Ancient alien species existing. The Replicators, Wraith, and humans all had Ancient origins. Likely the Serrakin, too, if their environment made it impossible for the human-forms to grow their. The universe became boring. Everything became all too human. And the writers were doing their best to sever the remaining connections to the three remaining power alien species: the Asgard, the Go'uld, and the Nox.

What's worse, they decided to make evil Ancients (tying into the fact that the Ancients were ascended). There was no way to have a plausible show when you're fighting the equivalent of the Q-continuum. One is left wondering why the Ori didn't attempt to expand outside their galaxy. After all, the ascended beings were unstoppable war machines (Chaya from Atlantis, Oma from SG-1) so there's no possible reason why the Ori limited their population when it could create more worship.

So yes, the Ancients screwed the show up and I'd be happy if they disappeared. And if the ascended plane disappeared. We don't have to see the Furlings or the Crystal skull aliens, but I do not want to see the Ancients again. They've damaged the writing of two shows. The writers need to learn from their mistakes and stop writing them into the plot.

Yeah, I was dissapointed when the Ancients turned out to be boring ol humans too. I think they should of left them a mystery like the Furlings. I find it more interesting that way, it leaves something up to the imagination and wonder of the individual - which is an important element of what I enjoy about Sci-fi. I wish they kept the origins of the Replicators hidden as well.

They need to bring back some solid mystery to the franchise IMO. SGU has the potential to do this, but im cautious about that. I dont think I could believe that the whole universe is FULL of medieval human settlements within forests in canada either. A galaxy or two, sure..but I think if your exploring outside that, it would be more interesting to see older more nightmarish alien races we can barely even comprehend.

Some may argue, that doing such aliens would kill the budget, but if the new show has a larger budget then it should surely be able to compensate things like this. I'd also mention babylon5 did really well with the shadows and vorlons as another example, id be glad to see some non-humanoid old races in that style too. Hell, even Star Trek had some pretty good non-humanoid aliens ; The crystaline entity and that Voyager episode with the Microscopic virus that uses its hosts to grow into the Macro world into huge three-tentacled flying things.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
November 10th, 2008, 04:09 AM
The entire of a Lovecraftian SGU would be something that would appeal to be greatly. The sheer expanse of the universe, to stare into the void, I think that would be utterly awesome, because the sights that must be out there God knows how far away from Earth, further than Pegasus, it would be a fitting place to discover creatures from before the dawn of time.

I feel lovecraftian influences would truly freshen up Stargate while staying true to what its meant to be at the same time.

You can easily imagine them finding some aeons old cyclopean city and reawakening some otherworldly nightmarish race, Call of cthulhu/mountains of madness style.

Flyboy
November 10th, 2008, 05:40 AM
I feel lovecraftian influences would truly freshen up Stargate while staying true to what its meant to be at the same time.

You can easily imagine them finding some aeons old cyclopean city and reawakening some otherworldly nightmarish race, Call of cthulhu/mountains of madness style.
Definitely.

And I agree with your previous statement too. When all the mythology in the Gateverse could be traced back to hi-tech humans and not ancient races, and Gods and whatever, it lost its charm.

Arga
November 10th, 2008, 10:38 AM
what would make me laugh is if they would find, during their journey, a non-ascended Ancient (in stasis, and they'd revive him) and it would turn out he is one particularly dumb & clumsy ancient, who was forgotten by the others, or accidentally put himself in cryo-sleep... And would be a comic relief & also source of some knowledge, but he wouldn't be really smarter. (yes, why do all ancients must be smart?)..

Dragon_Heart
November 10th, 2008, 03:54 PM
yeah as many have said, there would be no show without the ancients. they created us, they are like our parents:P

taking the ancients out of the story would be, well epic failure. and i agree with some, from what ive read so far, there are alot of close-minded people on these forums, of course who am i too judge....

-DH

ciannwn
November 11th, 2008, 04:20 AM
from what ive read so far, there are alot of close-minded people on these forums, of course who am i too judge....

I'm not closed minded about Ancients. I'm just fed up with the way they've been presented.

1: The ascended ones have access to all the knowledge of the universe but they've never learned wisdom. They still divide into factions who can't agree about how much interference counts as non interference.

2: Even though they had millions of years worth of scientific knowledge behind them the Ancients on Atlantis still invented useless technology with dangerous side effects. Zelenka was able to figure out why the super weapon on Doranda couldn't work as intended. You'd think the Lanteans would have known enough about Stargate Universe physics to not even attempt it.

My guess is that the Ancients ended up as they did because of plot devices.

1: Ascended Ancients have godlike powers. They can't be allowed to use them to sort the problems out, though, because it would leave the heroes with nothing to do.

2: If the ascended Ancients never interfered they wouldn't be able to appear in any story. This is where the 'thin line' comes in. An ascended Ancient can, therefore, give as much help as is neccessary for a particular plot before being stopped by the others.

2: Unascended Ancients in Pegasus would know how to find and run everything in the city. They'd also know how to make things like drones and ZPMs. They couldn't be allowed to live for more than one episode.

SGU now requires Ancients to have the attention span of gnats. They sent out a Stargate seeding ship but abandoned their plans to follow it and explore these new galaxies because they decided to go for ascension instead. The seeding ship is yet another example of litter left behind when they ascended so our heroes can find it.

Flyboy
November 12th, 2008, 12:54 PM
yeah as many have said, there would be no show without the ancients. they created us, they are like our parents:P

taking the ancients out of the story would be, well epic failure. and i agree with some, from what ive read so far, there are alot of close-minded people on these forums, of course who am i too judge....

-DH
Yes... we are closed minded for not liking a plot element and for believing that it's possible to open up story telling beyond it instead of focusing on something that's been centre stage for 9 years. Exactly.

mike3
November 12th, 2008, 02:33 PM
So yes, the Ancients screwed the show up and I'd be happy if they disappeared. And if the ascended plane disappeared. We don't have to see the Furlings or the Crystal skull aliens, but I do not want to see the Ancients again. They've damaged the writing of two shows. The writers need to learn from their mistakes and stop writing them into the plot.

You mean just retcon all that stuff right out of there? Or reboot the whole damn thing with a new show that starts fresh off from square one right after the conclusion of the original Stargate film? Mmh. I'm not so sure either of those would be cool or not.

Although I might agree with some of your points. It was a bit saddening to see the Ancients revealed as such a bore (just "humans" with more technology almost). It would have been cool to keep it more mysterious and have them as some great cosmic beings of some sort that are extremely old (even older than they have in the show) and incomprehensible and the Stargate system built for unknown purposes that the teams would still be trying to figure out to this day, perhaps even too cosmic to imagine.

Mcfergeson
November 12th, 2008, 04:10 PM
I feel lovecraftian influences would truly freshen up Stargate while staying true to what its meant to be at the same time.

You can easily imagine them finding some aeons old cyclopean city and reawakening some otherworldly nightmarish race, Call of cthulhu/mountains of madness style.


Oh, that would be cool. The Old Ones return to rid the universe of the pests known as humans!

But, of course, that's probably not what we're gonna get....

Flyboy
November 13th, 2008, 12:28 AM
You mean just retcon all that stuff right out of there? Or reboot the whole damn thing with a new show that starts fresh off from square one right after the conclusion of the original Stargate film? Mmh. I'm not so sure either of those would be cool or not.

Although I might agree with some of your points. It was a bit saddening to see the Ancients revealed as such a bore (just "humans" with more technology almost). It would have been cool to keep it more mysterious and have them as some great cosmic beings of some sort that are extremely old (even older than they have in the show) and incomprehensible and the Stargate system built for unknown purposes that the teams would still be trying to figure out to this day, perhaps even too cosmic to imagine.
Oh fcol, nothing so exetreme is needed!

The Ancients cropped up again and again in Pegasus because a) they were there fairly recently in a major capacity, b) the team were living in their city, and c) the main enemys were closely linked to the Ancients.

That in itself is fine.

However in SG1 and the Milky Way, had it not been for the accidental introduction of the Ori, there would have been little to none Ancient involvement because most of their stuff is now gone, they died out a LONG time ago, and frankly, there's no real hang over from them in the same way as PG. How much do we hear about the Romans in present day life?

Now obviously you can't write the Ancients OUT of Stargate, that would be silly, but whilst SGA called for a major Ancient involvement, SG1 certainly didn't and it became annoying for some when both shows focused on them. SGU should in theory be taking us somewhere the Ancients never went, albeit on an Ancient ship. There will be no past enemies, no Ancestor worshippers and that is all good. It doesn't mean writing them out of existence, it just means that (shock horror) the universe doesn't ACTUALLY revolve around the ancients and plots can happen without them.

I never used to hate the Ancients, and I don't hate them in SGA, I just wish they hadn't become centre focus in SG1 (that was SGA's thing) and I hope they wont become centre focus in SGU, because that really will be like the entire Gateverse revolves around Earth finding Jedi tech and thats it, where as before it was about a lot more than that.

shas'Vre
November 16th, 2008, 04:39 AM
the ancients are at the core of starget, i mean they are after all the ones who built the gates. if anything the producers have not shown enough of the ancients at least the lanteans - non corporial. i love the ancients cant get enough of them. infact they should creat a show based on the wraith-lantean war or on the lanteans that would be awesome.

Flyboy
November 16th, 2008, 03:04 PM
the ancients are at the core of starget, i mean they are after all the ones who built the gates. if anything the producers have not shown enough of the ancients at least the lanteans - non corporial. i love the ancients cant get enough of them. infact they should creat a show based on the wraith-lantean war or on the lanteans that would be awesome.
You know sometimes I wonder why I even post....

kymeric
November 16th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Maybe in the spinoff after universe. They send a team to another galaxy network that has nothing to do with the alterans except that their gateship flew thru a few millions of yrs ago. As usual they follow a clue and end up uncovering some mystery from our past. Theres some oppressive alien thats a direct threat to earth. Mix in an eclectic buncha characters and weve got another 5 years of stargate fun on our hands.

ciannwn
November 17th, 2008, 02:14 AM
infact they should creat a show based on the wraith-lantean war

Yes please. Lots of yummy Wraith and they win. :D

travis
November 17th, 2008, 10:55 PM
TBH I don't think I will watch startgate if they had nothing to do with the Ancient's. There's really only 2 main reason I watch stargate 1/ Ancients in all it's entirety 2/ Space battels and technology. I nevered been a fan of SG-1 until they introduce the Ori and Atlantis, why else Ancient city what more could I say. For me the best and most enjoyable eps of of SG-1 and Atlantis will have to be the Ancient base one's.

tombombadil
November 18th, 2008, 02:52 AM
it is impossible the ancients will have nothing to do with this, considering the gate itselfwas made by the ancients. and didn't they mention the ancient outpost in continuum?

Flyboy
November 18th, 2008, 03:44 AM
it is impossible the ancients will have nothing to do with this, considering the gate itselfwas made by the ancients. and didn't they mention the ancient outpost in continuum?
Fcol. No one is suggesting we pretend the ancients never existed, only that for once it should be made clear that the universe does not revolve around them.

Homer 120
November 19th, 2008, 08:43 AM
Thats like saying I want Star Trek without Klingons

Or like 24 without Jack Bauer/real time

Flyboy
November 19th, 2008, 10:38 AM
No.

It isn't.

Arga
November 19th, 2008, 10:50 AM
Thats like saying I want Star Trek without Klingons


Or like 24 without Jack Bauer/real time

Stargate without the ancients, it's more like : a few years worth of Stargate episodes.
For many seasons the show lived happily without stories involving Ancients, and when it did, it was a remote reference to an old civilisation, to explain where some device or ruins came from.

Now Stargate without a star-gate would be rather sacrilegious.

Flyboy
November 19th, 2008, 11:08 AM
Dear God!

Doth my ears deceive me!?

Is this a voice of reason I see before me!

Hark! Tis!

Huzzah and sound the bugles!



*does the dance of joy*

ciannwn
November 19th, 2008, 11:51 AM
*does the dance of joy*

Is this the dance you're doing? :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycFqzNxiTwY

Flyboy
November 19th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Yes. That's exactly the dance.

Jack_Bauer
November 19th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Or like 24 without Jack Bauer/real time

:O

And i agree with those saying the Ancients aren't needed as a focal point. The writers have portrayed them as bundering fools for the past 5 years, and frankly, I'm over them.