Alliance: was there one or not?

[Integrabyte]

What are your thoughts on this matter? Did the Ancients seek assistance from the Asgard? Did they create an Alliance? I noticed several posts on the board confirming this alliance but...

My thoughts...


If you listen carefully to the conversation between Daniel and the rogue Asgard you will not have a confirmation that they were Allies. The Asgard came to the Galaxy during the war. With both the Wraith and the Ancients occupied, they were free to conduct their experiments. Unfortunately, the hostilities came to an end, sooner than they thought and with an unexpected result. They were betting on the Ancients to win because they knew that they would not kill them for experimenting on people. The Wraith do not tolerate the presence of advanced technologies other than their own. Before they knew what was going on, they were under attack. Their intergalactic vessels were destroyed in the first battle. They were confronted with a similar problem like the ancients, lack of numbers, and lack of ressources. I imagine they had a few Beliskners. As a consequence, they left their new settlements and retreated to a place where the Wraith could not exterminate them. Seeing they managed to survive this long and their suits protected them for a certain period, one can assume that they were more advanced than the Wraith and, with the proper ressources, could have helped the Ancients. Why would the Wraith let them live knowing they were a threat?

[Lord batchi ball]

My new understanding of the Alliance is this:

The Ancients; a advanced society came to the milky way galaxy where there were two advanced societies already, the nox and furlings. How advanced they were is hard to determine but just the fact the ancients were there could possibly interfere with the progress of the existing ones.

The Asgard since they at the time were explorers and also advanced enough to travel to the MW and interfere and visa verse the ancients could interfere with the develoment of the Asgard.

So taking inconsideration with what I said the alliance was not for mutialcooperation (otherwise the asgard would not have a cloning problem, ancients would have helped) or for protection, (the gould took over while the nox and furlings were still there and the asgard did not help either) so the last thing I can derive is was a kind of non-interferance within cultures, of the intellectually advanced (meaning large fore brains and capability of speech and learning)

This would explain every advanced cultures kind of non interferance polcies, why the lost tribe did not help or was given help by the ancients, why the asgard eventually helped us (the ancients opened the door when the essiantially played god with humans, which the nox would not agree with) but it took the Asgard a long time to come around to helping relizeing that instead of doing harm they would do good.

[Giantevilhead]

It has never been revealed how long the Asgard were at war with the Replicators. 10,000 years may be a bit of a stretch but it is possible.

[Lord batchi ball]

It has never been revealed how long the Asgard were at war with the Replicators. 10,000 years may be a bit of a stretch but it is possible.

Who stated that?

[Wrath Of Odin]

You would think in all this, with the ancients with their intergalactic hyperdrives would of just asked the Asgard for help, the Asgard may not go looking for a fight but they will for the right reasons. Imagine a fleet of Ancient and Asgard warships roaming the pegasus galaxy absolutely mopping the floor with the wraith, they could of destroyed the Go'uld after aswell and let humans live in peace. *imagines Orion and O'neil class ships hammering the crap of the wraith* ah

[Integrabyte]

You would think in all this, with the ancients with their intergalactic hyperdrives would of just asked the Asgard for help, the Asgard may not go looking for a fight but they will for the right reasons. Imagine a fleet of Ancient and Asgard warships roaming the pegasus galaxy absolutely mopping the floor with the wraith, they could of destroyed the Go'uld after aswell and let humans live in peace. *imagines Orion and O'neil class ships hammering the crap of the wraith* ah

Both the Asgard and the Ancients would have lost because they did not have the numbers and the ressources. Most of the Asgard were in Ida and MW, so I doubt they wanted to interfere in this conflict. Moreover, the rogue faction had no interest to get involved. They had more pressing matters and lets be honest...how would a Beliskner pose a threat to a Wraith Hive? The Asgard, like the Ancients, were cocky and arrogant. Their technology was super advanced but when confronted with an enemy with huge ressources and numbers, they almost came extinct.

On the flip side of the coin, had the Asgard intervened, their war tech would have exponentially improved. O'Neill class ships would have appearead way earlier in order to neutralise hives. A good tactic would have been...guerrilla style, hit and run from IDA or the void between Galaxies. The Wraith could not follow with their cheap hyper drives.

[Wrath Of Odin]

Both the Asgard and the Ancients would have lost because they did not have the numbers and the ressources. Most of the Asgard were in Ida and MW, so I doubt they wanted to interfere in this conflict. Moreover, the rogue faction had no interest to get involved. They had more pressing matters and lets be honest...how would a Beliskner pose a threat to a Wraith Hive? The Asgard, like the Ancients, were cocky and arrogant. Their technology was super advanced but when confronted with an enemy with huge ressources and numbers, they almost came extinct.

On the flip side of the coin, had the Asgard intervened, their war tech would have exponentially improved. O'Neill class ships would have appearead way earlier in order to neutralise hives. A good tactic would have been...guerrilla style, hit and run from IDA or the void between Galaxies. The Wraith could not follow with their cheap hyper drives.

Not only could they do hit and run attacks against the wraith with their vastly superior weapons and hyperdrives, after the war with the Wraith the ancients could help the Asgard solve their cloning problems, everyones a winner and probably a good 9,000 years sooner than our heroes get to pegasus and our grey little friends would all still be alive.

[Integrabyte]

Not only could they do hit and run attacks against the wraith with their vastly superior weapons and hyperdrives, after the war with the Wraith the ancients could help the Asgard solve their cloning problems, everyones a winner and probably a good 9,000 years sooner than our heroes get to pegasus and our grey little friends would all still be alive.

Your sig is too tall. Resize or the mods will give you a warning.


True, I see your point, as you have seen mine, however, do you really think they could inflict huge damage? We don't know the status of their ships back then. They got their tushy handed to them when Anubis stole some ancient tech. They put their tushy into it when the Replicators were beginning to wipe them out and when the ORI started to convert the MW.

Coming now back to the Wraith. Sure, the Asgard could have sent a few vessels for a joint strike mission. They would have been easily disbanded by the Wraith because of their number. As you well know, the Asgard are reluctant to fight a war...even when it comes to their own survival. Knowing the Wraith do not have intergalactic capabilities to wipe the Asgard out...the council would not commit time and ressources to destroy them. Ida would not be in danger. This is the difference between the Wraith and the Replicators. Both the Goa'uld and the Wraith had a minor setback...lack of technology in some areas. The replicators forced them. As a consequence, the Asgard high council was in need for some serious ass kissing from the ancients . Had this happened...combining Aurora with Asgard tech, modify Atlantis and have a bit of Asgard tech in it, create in peace vessels in Ida and unleash them on the Wraith....it sounds so juicy .

[Nailer]

That Asgard Beliskner losing to that Anubis Ha'tac with a few ancient tech..

that was completely ridiculous in my opinion. Asgard ships are vastly more advanced than Goa'uld ships not only in shields and weapons, but also other ship systems such as automatic damage control, hull building material etc.

Their ships have automatic damage control: force fields forming around damaged/exposed portions of the ship, force fields forming on the second the explosion occurs preventing any further damage to any of the systems.. With that kind of technology a Beliskner WITHOUT a shield would still have a chance against a pathetic ha'tac with shields.

Thus my friends, Thor's good ol'ship in that episode didn't lose to a pathetic augmented ha'tac with semi-ancient tech. She lost to the negligence of the writers.

[I'mWithGenius]

That Asgard Beliskner losing to that Anubis Ha'tac with a few ancient tech..

that was completely ridiculous in my opinion. Asgard ships are vastly more advanced than Goa'uld ships not only in shields and weapons, but also other ship systems such as automatic damage control, hull building material etc.

Their ships have automatic damage control: force fields forming around damaged/exposed portions of the ship, force fields forming on the second the explosion occurs preventing any further damage to any of the systems.. With that kind of technology a Beliskner WITHOUT a shield would still have a chance against a pathetic ha'tac with shields.

Thus my friends, Thor's good ol'ship in that episode didn't lose to a pathetic augmented ha'tac with semi-ancient tech. She lost to the negligence of the writers.

Normally I might agree with you. But the Beliskner didn't lose to some pathetic
Goa'uld Hat'ak ship, it lost to a ship upgraded with Ancient tech. I mean, look at the Daedalus class Earth ships. Without the Asgard tech upgrading it, it would be a fairly pathetic ship. With only rail-guns to take on a ship with shields and energy weapons. But it has Asgard shields and plasma beam weapons, so it can take on almost anything now. The same could go for a Hat'ak and ancient tech.

Also, later in that episode, when Asgard reinforcements arrive to save SG-1 at the last second *surprise surprise*, Thor tells Anubis that the ships he's now facing are far superior to the one he faced before. I think that the Beliskner was a bad-ass ship when facing down normal Hat'aks, but it wasn't equipped with the super powerful Asgard tech like the Asgard plasma beam weapons. I mean, in Atlantis's season 4 episode, "Be All My Sins Remember'd", it's shown that even Asgard weapons could break through Ancient shields and destroy ancient ships.

So if Thor was using an older model ship to face Anubis, then that might make sense. His tech wasn't as good as newer Asgard tech.