Jackson, dragged through the gutter.

[Ouroboros]

I really enjoyed watching Daniel make a massive hypocrite of himself in this episode by pissing and moaning about how callous it is to use the Atterro device to further the Asgard survival when it's going to kill humans in the process, while at the same time completely not giving a **** about the entire Wraith species it would wipe out.

Hey Danny boy, or rather "hey lousy writer possessing Danny boy" if you don't even pretend to give a **** about the millions of sentient Wraith you're killing to try and survive when they're only trying to do the same, why should those Asgard give a **** about vaporising a few million of your species so they can survive themselves? If wiping out one entire species to make things easier on your own is acceptable then surely them just blowing up a few million of your kind to make things easier for them is to. Oh but I forgot, they're not the chosen people right, they're just dirty murdering aliens who want to kill all those innocent beautiful humans! They're no better than the Wraith! That whole killing to survive thing the both of them do. How despicable they are, don't they know only humans are allowed to kill others in order to survive!

I've long hoped that the history of obliviousness to the value of any sort of sentient life in this series that wasn't human was just oversight more than intentional but this episode sealed it. They really seem to actually believe this "humans are inherently more valuable" crap don't they.

It's especially damming in this instance to because the SGA expedition is actually suppossed to be working toward a peaceful solution with the Wraith, that whole alternative food thing Teyla risked life and limb for 2 episodes ago remember. Given an easy opportunity to genocide them again though of course nobody raises any objections. Certainly shows where their hearts and intentions really lie doesn't it. Oh they would prefer genocide, it's just that genocide is proving too hard so maybe they'll have to settle for peace instead, at least until an opportunity for an easy genocide presents itself somewhere down the line.

Bang up job tearing down everything the Daniel Jackson character was suppossed to stand for here.

[CarnalPIE]

Interesting take, but the difference is that humans don't kill Wraith merely to eat. To simply exist, the Wraith have to kill humans. In other words, all things being equal, humans will stay on their worlds and leave the Wraith alone. The reverse isn't true. Therefore, they must be wiped out. That doesn't mean you have to be overjoyed about this genocide, but it is what it is.

[ykickamoocow]

I really enjoyed watching Daniel make a massive hypocrite of himself in this episode by pissing and moaning about how callous it is to use the Atterro device to further the Asgard survival when it's going to kill humans in the process, while at the same time completely not giving a **** about the entire Wraith species it would wipe out.

Hey Danny boy, or rather "hey lousy writer possessing Danny boy" if you don't even pretend to give a **** about the millions of sentient Wraith you're killing to try and survive when they're only trying to do the same, why should those Asgard give a **** about vaporising a few million of your species so they can survive themselves? If wiping out one entire species to make things easier on your own is acceptable then surely them just blowing up a few million of your kind to make things easier for them is to. Oh but I forgot, they're not the chosen people right, they're just dirty murdering aliens who want to kill all those innocent beautiful humans! They're no better than the Wraith! That whole killing to survive thing the both of them do. How despicable they are, don't they know only humans are allowed to kill others in order to survive!

I've long hoped that the history of obliviousness to the value of any sort of sentient life in this series that wasn't human was just oversight more than intentional but this episode sealed it. They really seem to actually believe this "humans are inherently more valuable" crap don't they.

It's especially damming in this instance to because the SGA expedition is actually suppossed to be working toward a peaceful solution with the Wraith, that whole alternative food thing Teyla risked life and limb for 2 episodes ago remember. Given an easy opportunity to genocide them again though of course nobody raises any objections. Certainly shows where their hearts and intentions really lie doesn't it. Oh they would prefer genocide, it's just that genocide is proving too hard so maybe they'll have to settle for peace instead, at least until an opportunity for an easy genocide presents itself somewhere down the line.

Bang up job tearing down everything the Daniel Jackson character was suppossed to stand for here.

You do know that the Wraith are the bad guys dont you?

[GateofDOOM]

Yeah, what's new?

It's obvious by now that the only bad guys who can make our good guys look good are the kind of bad guys who don't give a damn about anything but themselves. The "Oh-so-eviiiiil" kind of bad guys. If you need a bunch of Asgard who don't even blink at the thought of killing millions of humans to make the expedition look good, then maybe the plot needs some restructuring me thinks.

[Arturis]

You guys gotta remember that Danny isn't exactly the bleeding heart that he used to be. Jack rubbed off on him a bit and he doesn't care quite as much as he used to about the rights of the bad guys. Remember what he wanted to do to Adria? He's pretty much cool with evil being destroyed at this point.

[dasNdanger]

Wow - and I didn't even write this. Good job - it goes nicely with my thoughts here:


http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=59752

Great minds, and all of that.


das

[Ouroboros]

Interesting take, but the difference is that humans don't kill Wraith merely to eat. To simply exist, the Wraith have to kill humans. In other words, all things being equal, humans will stay on their worlds and leave the Wraith alone. The reverse isn't true. Therefore, they must be wiped out. That doesn't mean you have to be overjoyed about this genocide, but it is what it is.

Did you watch the queen. It's only necessary to wipe them all out if you want it that way and that seems to be the way they want it. What do you want to bet they completely abandon the idea of the gene therapy now and just brush it under the rug.

You guys gotta remember that Danny isn't exactly the bleeding heart that he used to be. Jack rubbed off on him a bit and he doesn't care quite as much as he used to about the rights of the bad guys. Remember what he wanted to do to Adria? He's pretty much cool with evil being destroyed at this point.

The worst thing though is the way he comes off here. He gets all worked up at these Asgard who're doing this to try and salvage what few scraps remain of their race, he's calling them all these things because they've accepted that they're going to have to kill some humans to make their plan possible and he just completely loses sight of the fact that he himself is perfectly willing to do the same thing... so long as it's not his species that has to die of course.

He's suppossed to be smarter than that. I'd expect this sort of "me first" narrow minded attitude from someone like Sheppard or Dex but not Jackson.

Wow - and I didn't even write this. Good job - it goes nicely with my thoughts here:


http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=59752

Great minds, and all of that.


das

Yeah I figured I'd wait until the second part aired to give them a chance to not actually do what I knew they were going to. Given SGA's persistently schizophrenic approach to the Wraith it was hard not to see it coming. One week they're humanized flawed individuals who have no choice and we should try to help them, the next they're an evil faceless intergalactic cockroach swarm in need of extermination. I figured I'd wait to see it all play out again before posting on what I knew was inevitably going to happen, what can I say, I'm a generous soul.

[huntress]

I really enjoyed watching Daniel make a massive hypocrite of himself in this episode by pissing and moaning about how callous it is to use the Atterro device to further the Asgard survival when it's going to kill humans in the process, while at the same time completely not giving a **** about the entire Wraith species it would wipe out.

Hey Danny boy, or rather "hey lousy writer possessing Danny boy" if you don't even pretend to give a **** about the millions of sentient Wraith you're killing to try and survive when they're only trying to do the same, why should those Asgard give a **** about vaporising a few million of your species so they can survive themselves? If wiping out one entire species to make things easier on your own is acceptable then surely them just blowing up a few million of your kind to make things easier for them is to. Oh but I forgot, they're not the chosen people right, they're just dirty murdering aliens who want to kill all those innocent beautiful humans! They're no better than the Wraith! That whole killing to survive thing the both of them do. How despicable they are, don't they know only humans are allowed to kill others in order to survive!

I've long hoped that the history of obliviousness to the value of any sort of sentient life in this series that wasn't human was just oversight more than intentional but this episode sealed it. They really seem to actually believe this "humans are inherently more valuable" crap don't they.

It's especially damming in this instance to because the SGA expedition is actually suppossed to be working toward a peaceful solution with the Wraith, that whole alternative food thing Teyla risked life and limb for 2 episodes ago remember. Given an easy opportunity to genocide them again though of course nobody raises any objections. Certainly shows where their hearts and intentions really lie doesn't it. Oh they would prefer genocide, it's just that genocide is proving too hard so maybe they'll have to settle for peace instead, at least until an opportunity for an easy genocide presents itself somewhere down the line.

Bang up job tearing down everything the Daniel Jackson character was suppossed to stand for here.

Martin Gero screwed up everything about this episode not just Daniel. The way I read it most people agree that Daniel was completely out of character. Think of "the Lost Tribe" as a badfic and you can live with the episode. I for one will do so. For me SG-1 ended with season eight and everything that happened beyond that was just a bad dream.

[Integrabyte]

Two is the lucky number so far. First Sam and now Daniel. Horrible writing and it was an insult to SG1 fans.

[McSwift]

Did you watch the queen. It's only necessary to wipe them all out if you want it that way and that seems to be the way they want it. What do you want to bet they completely abandon the idea of the gene therapy now and just brush it under the rug.

I can see where Todd is coming from. By getting the gene therapy to allow the Wraith to eat normal food, what will become of the Wraith and their way of life.

I can see this fairly easily. I live in Canada (specifically in a region where theres not much of an Asian population). If some "white guy" gave me an offer to change the color of my skin to white, while maintaining all other characteristics, would I be accepting of the idea?

Should I abandon everything about myself, so that I can fit in with the rest of the population?

I think this point is valid. The Wraith are not evil. Thats the foodchain.

[Hermiod]

You do know that the Wraith are the bad guys dont you?

Because their diet is different than the norm doesn't make the Wraith bad guys. Everyone needs to eat something.

[Pitry]

Very very very very very very true. Very.

Daniel is the same one who bothered asking what about the Jaffa when they contemplated using the symbiote poison back in season 5, and the one who worried about the Goa'uld hosts - indiviodual hosts. The entire discussion about whether the end justifies the means or not was ridiculous - didn't Daniel act exactly the same way when he used the Ark of Truth? Merlin's weapon?Several other artifacts that kill all them badguys? And yes - this whole "yeah okay let's totally destroy the wraith".
His moral backbone has disappeared a while ago.

[kymeric]

You are completely out of touch with the character of daniel jackson. Ever since his return in season 7 hes been on a darker path. You must have missed the guy who wanted to kill khalek, or shoot little girl adria. Why dont you just be more honest and scream Waaahhhh waaahhhh this isnt what i want waahhhh! It fits with the established cannon of Sg1

[ykickamoocow]

You are completely out of touch with the character of daniel jackson. Ever since his return in season 7 hes been on a darker path. You must have missed the guy who wanted to kill khalek, or shoot little girl adria. Why dont you just be more honest and scream Waaahhhh waaahhhh this isnt what i want waahhhh! It fits with the established cannon of Sg1

Also going back even futher Daniel killed alot of infant Goa'uld in season 1 (or possibly season 2). Carter wasnt happy with him either.

[Pitry]

Also going back even futher Daniel killed alot of infant Goa'uld in season 1 (or possibly season 2). Carter wasnt happy with him either.

There's a difference. What he did in season 1 was a very gut-feeling thing, somehting both Carter didn' approve of and, probably, he regretted later. I say probably cos that was never adressed again...

as for Daniel season 7 onwards. Yes, he definitely is a darker character. However. Darker does not equal genocidal. I flt the darker side to his character was his being less naive, more sceptic, nmore aware that the "cool" species out there like the Ancients aren;t these wonderful being he believed they were before.

Or, more to the point - how can Daniel speak against "the end justifies the means" to the Asgard when he jsut approved of it towards a different species two minutes ago?