What about the Alliance of Four? (TLT Spoilers)

[Infinatus]

It was established early on in SG-1 that the Asgard and Ancients were allies. So why were the Asgard sneaking around in Pegasus trying to lay low when they could have just asked for the Ancients' help solving their cloning problem. Sure, people are likely going to come in and say that the Ancients would never support experimenting on humans, but that would contradict established canon (i.e. The Game). The fact of the matter is that the Asgard could have likely solved their problem in partnership with the Ancients, yet instead we're made to believe that they're too dumb to ask for help when they need it.

[ha'tak_]

It was established early on in SG-1 that the Asgard and Ancients were allies. So why were the Asgard sneaking around in Pegasus trying to lay low when they could have just asked for the Ancients' help solving their cloning problem. Sure, people are likely going to come in and say that the Ancients would never support experimenting on humans, but that would contradict established canon (i.e. The Game). The fact of the matter is that the Asgard could have likely solved their problem in partnership with the Ancients, yet instead we're made to believe that they're too dumb to ask for help when they need it.

you are right, but I´m beeing to think that this was not alliance like a army alliance but just treading knowledge between the four biggest races in the galaxy

[Cronus]

They probably did ask for help, but didn't they move to the Pegasus galaxy whilst the Ancient/Wraith war was going on? I doubt the Ancients would have much time to help, especially if the Asgards didn't fully throw in their lot with the Ancients when they first arrived.

These guys were a minority. Almost like a group of Loki from Sg1. Probably shunned by the rest of the Asgard and unable to use their usual contacts for help. Almost like the rogue group of the NID who set up their own stargate operations in the Milky Way - couldn't use Earth's diplomatic ties, but determined they had the right way of helping their people.

[Fjord]

The Asgard said they came without the knowledge of ancients, they also said that what they were doing was not ordered by the high council...its these things that lead me to believe that Asgard did not contact the ancients and solve their cloning problem with their willing assistance......I think it is more likely that the asgard took over abandoned ancient outposts after the war and gained control of the database;......using the knowledge of the ancients to solve the problems and build ships capable of penetrating lantean shields.

[Finger13]

They probably did ask for help, but didn't they move to the Pegasus galaxy whilst the Ancient/Wraith war was going on? I doubt the Ancients would have much time to help, especially if the Asgards didn't fully throw in their lot with the Ancients when they first arrived.

These guys were a minority. Almost like a group of Loki from Sg1. Probably shunned by the rest of the Asgard and unable to use their usual contacts for help. Almost like the rogue group of the NID who set up their own stargate operations in the Milky Way - couldn't use Earth's diplomatic ties, but determined they had the right way of helping their people.

I agree with Cronus. These Asgard obviously had differing views from the rest of the Asgard. The Ancients were too busy trying to save their civilization to worry about the Asgard's genetic problems. And considering that the Asgard went on to live for another 10,000 years implies that there was no rush. I realize that's a short period of time in the context of a race's evolution, but the degradation hadn't gone so far as to immediately threaten the Asgard.

The MW Asgard could still exist if they hadn't made the error in trying to reverse their degradation. They say that a virus was created by accident in these attempts, so had they not have made that mistake they'd still be around.

Basically what I'm saying is the Asgard problem was long-term, and the Ancients had little reason to care when they were losing control of Pegasus which was an immediate problem. And it doesn't sound like the Asgard did much to assist the Ancients militarily.

Anyway, the Lost Tribe almost certainly wouldn't have had the support of the Asgard High Council, and it's easy to see that the Lost Tribe holds the other Asgard in contempt. They aren't the least bit concerned when informed that the majority of their species have died.

[Archaeis]

My take on the Alliance is always that it was formed when the Ancients returned to the milky way. The ancients left for Pegasus before the Asgard were space-capable (asgard in LT said 200,000 year history of their race) and they didn't have intergalactic hyperdrive even 30000 years ago (revelations).

My guess is that they learned of the Ancients (who had been long gone) as they began exploring the milky way around 20000 years ago, figured out that they went to the Pegasus Galaxy, much like we did, but this rogue faction had the capablilty to get there in ships, unlike us when we went there. Condemned by the main faction of Asgard, the Lost Tribe went to Pegasus, maybe hoping to find the Ancients for help and learn from them.

They get there around 10000 years ago and find the galaxy at war, so they settle on their planet in hiding, hoping for the Ancients to win. They didn't and retreated to the Milky Way through Stargate, and the Lost Tribe Asgard stayed behind in secret after their ships were lost.

The Ancients that returned to the Milky Way found new sapient species, Asgard Furlings Nox around the galaxy, and these species no doubt knew of the Lanteans, but called them "Ancient" since they didn't know real name. These races form the Alliance and so on...

[Aerilon]

I still don't understand this four great races thing. The Asgard were / are originally from the Ida Galaxy, therefore, regardless as to whether the Ancients were in the Milky Way or Pegasus Galaxy, they can't have met the Asgard for a long while.

[Xaeden]

Sure, people are likely going to come in and say that the Ancients would never support experimenting on humans, but that would contradict established canon (i.e. The Game).

The type of experimenting the Ancients were doing was vastly different than what the Asgard wanted to do. All the Ancients did was send them instructions and observe the effects. What the Asgard wanted to do involved kidnapping live subjects and doing who knows what to them. It's the difference between scientists who keep lab rats (that they possibly care about) for completely harmless observations and scientists who use them for anything and everything that they think will better Humanity, no matter what the cost.

[Infinatus]

The type of experimenting the Ancients were doing was vastly different than what the Asgard wanted to do. All the Ancients did was send them instructions and observe the effects. What the Asgard wanted to do involved kidnapping live subjects and doing who knows what to them. It's the difference between scientists who keep lab rats (that they possibly care about) for completely harmless observations and scientists who use them for anything and everything that they think will better Humanity, no matter what the cost.

I'm sure that manipulating the actions of entire villages can be argued to be immoral. Experimenting on humans to cure a dying species should be much more acceptable than the experiment from The Game. Also, Loki did not harm any of his test subjects, so we do not know that these Asgard would either.

[kymeric]

My take on the Alliance is always that it was formed when the Ancients returned to the milky way. The ancients left for Pegasus before the Asgard were space-capable (asgard in LT said 200,000 year history of their race) and they didn't have intergalactic hyperdrive even 30000 years ago (revelations).

My guess is that they learned of the Ancients (who had been long gone) as they began exploring the milky way around 20000 years ago, figured out that they went to the Pegasus Galaxy, much like we did, but this rogue faction had the capablilty to get there in ships, unlike us when we went there. Condemned by the main faction of Asgard, the Lost Tribe went to Pegasus, maybe hoping to find the Ancients for help and learn from them.

They get there around 10000 years ago and find the galaxy at war, so they settle on their planet in hiding, hoping for the Ancients to win. They didn't and retreated to the Milky Way through Stargate, and the Lost Tribe Asgard stayed behind in secret after their ships were lost.

The Ancients that returned to the Milky Way found new sapient species, Asgard Furlings Nox around the galaxy, and these species no doubt knew of the Lanteans, but called them "Ancient" since they didn't know real name. These races form the Alliance and so on...

He said 100,000. Youre thinking of homo sapiens, weve been around for 200,000 (irl). Amusing how they were pan galactic after 70,000 and we were still spearing antelope.

[Woden]

He said 100,000. Youre thinking of homo sapiens, weve been around for 200,000 (irl). Amusing how they were pan galactic after 70,000 and we were still spearing antelope.

I think 100,000 is for the cloned asgards.

[Xaeden]

I'm sure that manipulating the actions of entire villages can be argued to be immoral. Experimenting on humans to cure a dying species should be much more acceptable than the experiment from The Game.

For all we know they were "manipulating" the actions of entire villages to help Humanity - What other purpose would they have for studying the advancement of primitive societies other than casual curiosity? Although whatever their purpose, there's a huge moral difference between that and kiddnapping, followed by biological experiments. Even if there's no physical damage done, there's a clear emotional damage that individuals will have to deal with for the rest of their lives.

Also, Loki did not harm any of his test subjects, so we do not know that these Asgard would either.

We're not entirely sure what the extent of Loki's actions were. We know he replaced people with clones while he experimented on them and then switched them back when he was done. But considering that it's that he doomed the clones to death, (a serious crime in and of itself since, mentally, they were the same person) I would be surprised if he was careful enough to make sure that none of his subjects were harmed. Also, the fact that the Pegasus Asgard couldn't care less about millions of Humans dying in order to achieve their goals, suggests to me that wouldn't be too concerned about preserving their subjects either.

[Character]

He said 100,000. Youre thinking of homo sapiens, weve been around for 200,000 (irl). Amusing how they were pan galactic after 70,000 and we were still spearing antelope.

Thats because he said 100k years of writen history, of which we have what, like 10k or less?

[YutheGreat]

If these guys were there during the war why didn't they join the Ancients with the added muscle of the Asgard the Ancients could have developed their own clone army. Asgard and ANcients together could win the war.

[1LostFurling]

It was clearly stated 100,000 year history of the Asgard. Not "written" history, or since the Asgaard became technologically advanced history, or since they developed intergalatic hyperdrive tech history...the 100,000 year history of the Asgard. That established canon. The Asgard have been a species for 100,000 years. That's it, no playing around with that statement.

I think that is rather foolish of a statement to make though. As another poster said above "that they were pan galatic after 70,000 years whilst we were still spearing antelope." Very true. This implies that the Asgard developed extremely quickly. Seems unbelievable.

Now of course, what do the writers mean by years? "Earth" years or years measured on some other world (the original Asgard homeworld??) where its orbit around its sun is different so that "Asgard" years are much, much longer than "Earth" years. That's splitting hairs but important.