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Regphorph
September 27th, 2008, 10:18 AM
Ok now that Todd is in control of our ship, isn't there any data on board about the location of earth, the Wraith jackpot?

Platschu
September 27th, 2008, 10:22 AM
I think it is more dangerous that the Wraith got the Asgard beam technology! :eek: :p

naamiaiset
September 27th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Ok now that Todd is in control of our ship, isn't there any data on board about the location of earth, the Wraith jackpot?
I assume there is, but unless wraith upgrade their hyperdrives, it's of no use anyway. even if todd takes information from the daedalus, I'm not sure if he'd use it or not.

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 10:27 AM
Can't Todd just use the Daedalus to go to Earth instead? Who needs upgraded Wraith Cruisers now?

naamiaiset
September 27th, 2008, 10:28 AM
Can't Todd just use the Daedalus to go to Earth instead? Who needs upgraded Wraith Cruisers now?
I don't think just one ship and crew of wraith would last long on earth...

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 10:33 AM
I don't think just one ship and crew of wraith would last long on earth...

Beam more Wraith on-board from some where. Then orbit Earth, occasionally beaming up humans to feed upon. Or just roam the Milky Way, plenty of populous human planets to feed upon.

Take a Wraith Queen too; breed more Wraith whilst they're there.

Jumper_One
September 27th, 2008, 10:35 AM
Beam more Wraith on-board from some where. Then orbit Earth, occasionally beaming up humans to feed upon. Or just roam the Milky Way, plenty of populous human planets to feed upon.

Take a Wraith Queen too; breed more Wraith whilst they're there.

the Odyssey and Apollo would destroy the Daedalus

naamiaiset
September 27th, 2008, 10:37 AM
the Odyssey and Apollo would destroy the Daedalus
:indeed:

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 11:09 AM
the Odyssey and Apollo would destroy the Daedalus

We've never seen a 304 go up against a 304; they might not be able to destroy eachother, even if there are two attacking. The Daedalus could always jump away and stage Hit & Run attacks against the other 304s/ Earth/ other Humanoid worlds.

Jumper_One
September 27th, 2008, 11:15 AM
We've never seen a 304 go up against a 304; they might not be able to destroy eachother, even if there are two attacking. The Daedalus could always jump away and stage Hit & Run attacks against the other 304s/ Earth/ other Humanoid worlds.

how so?

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 11:22 AM
how so?

Asgard Shields might be stronger than Asgard uberbeams. Preventing them from inflicting any damage on the opposing ships?

Myles
September 27th, 2008, 11:26 AM
Asgard Shields might be stronger than Asgard uberbeams. Preventing them from inflicting any damage on the opposing ships?

Doubt it. The beams took out Ori shields. Even if regular 304's shields are stronger then that(if they are it's plain ridiculous) they would still eventually come down. The only thing is Odyssey has a ZPM powering it's shields, which means it would last a lot longer then Apollo or Daedalus.

unluckynumber11
September 27th, 2008, 11:28 AM
We've never seen a 304 go up against a 304; they might not be able to destroy eachother, even if there are two attacking. The Daedalus could always jump away and stage Hit & Run attacks against the other 304s/ Earth/ other Humanoid worlds.

yea and also there is no way earth would know that the daedalus has been hijacked so it would give them the element of surprise

Xaeden
September 27th, 2008, 11:29 AM
Even if you're going to argue that Asgard shields might be immune to Asgard beams, those shields aren't exactly the most powerful things in the world based on how quickly the Wraith drain them. With the Ancient Outpost, (which alone would take out the shields with ease) Earth ships, and possibly allied Jaffa/Tok'ra ships available to them, there's just no way the Daedalus will be able to survive trying to attack Earth. There's also an issue of if they know what rings are and how to protect them so someone can't ring aboard (persumably they'll be able to change the shield frequencies so Earth can't beam people aboard/pass through with 302s).

Plus, it really is pointless. So you can fit a hundred or so Wraith unboard...Are you really going to try to get a foothold in the Milky Way with so few Wraith? Even if they try to make several trips to carry over enough Wraith to man ships that they grow somewhere in the Milky Way, they can carry over too few at a time to be sucessful before Earth puts an end to it. It's much better to either try to reverse engineer some of the tech or, if they can't use those hyperdrives to upgrade their own, then they should use the navigational computer to get Atlantis' location and launch a fleet at it. They can figure out how to upgrade their hyperdrives if they're able to take the city for sure.


yea and also there is no way earth would know that the daedalus has been hijacked so it would give them the element of surprise

Depends if the crystal needed to dial galaxies was destroyed in the blast or not. If not, they can dial Earth once they get another gate and they can do that easily with the help of the Travelers.

Infinatus
September 27th, 2008, 11:34 AM
We've never seen a 304 go up against a 304; they might not be able to destroy eachother, even if there are two attacking. The Daedalus could always jump away and stage Hit & Run attacks against the other 304s/ Earth/ other Humanoid worlds.

Considering that (The Last Man spoilers)
the Phoenix was critically damaged by 3 Hive ships fairly quickly I doubt that the Daedalus could last long against two Earth ships. Not to mention Ori ships are destroyed in about 6 hits, which means that the similarly/less shielded Daedalus would only have to take 2 or 3 beams from each ship.

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Doubt it. The beams took out Ori shields. Even if regular 304's shields are stronger then that(if they are it's plain ridiculous) they would still eventually come down. The only thing is Odyssey has a ZPM powering it's shields, which means it would last a lot longer then Apollo or Daedalus.

The 304's attacking and defensive capabilities are plain ridiculous (and inconsistent) anyway.

Todd probably would be aware of this anyway, and not directly confront the Apollo or Odyssey face-to-face; instead remain in hiding (it's a large Galaxy) and culling the occasional defenseless human world. Then performing guerrilla tactics on Earth (wouldn't be that hard, jump into the system and take out the SGC from space, with an Uberbeam), then jump away again. Preferably whilst the other 304s are on other missions.

Or, if the 304s are ever in repairs or maintenance, jump in and uberbeam them whilst they're defenseless. Easy.

Or, Todd could take a shipment of Wraith from Pegasus, ; along with Darts in the hanger bayplant them down on some backwater planet in the Milky Way (with a Stargate), then keep shipping them there and back, until they've constructed a sizable army/ stronghold, then take on the rest of the Milky Way and it's defenseless human population by Stargate, with a 304 overhead for support.


Plus, it really is pointless. So you can fit a hundred or so Wraith unboard...Are you really going to try to get a foothold in the Milky Way with so few Wraith? Even if they try to make several trips to carry over enough Wraith to man ships that they grow somewhere in the Milky Way, they can carry over two few at a time to be sucessful before Earth puts an end to it. It's much better to either try to reverse engineer some of the tech and, if they can't use those hyperdrives to upgrade their, then use the navigational computer to get Atlantis location and launch a fleet at it. They can figure out how to upgrade their hyperdrives if they're able to take the city for sure.

Earth wouldn't be aware of the gathering Wraith in the Milky Way. Especially if they remain hidden on some uninhabitable planet for a while. It's not like they're going to stumble across them, or the Daedalus.

Also, the Daedalus could destroy the Apollo on 1 on 1, with the element of Surprise. The Odysseus not so much, but if it jumps in on an ambush before the shields came up, it would stand a sizable chance, probably destroying it.

Jumper_One
September 27th, 2008, 11:35 AM
Doubt it. The beams took out Ori shields. Even if regular 304's shields are stronger then that(if they are it's plain ridiculous) they would still eventually come down. The only thing is Odyssey has a ZPM powering it's shields, which means it would last a lot longer then Apollo or Daedalus.

what he said

Blistna
September 27th, 2008, 11:35 AM
The real question is...will we get the ship back before all that happens?

unluckynumber11
September 27th, 2008, 11:42 AM
Even if you're going to argue that Asgard shields might be immune to Asgard beams, those shields aren't exactly the most powerful things in the world based on how quickly the Wraith drain them. With the Ancient Outpost, (which alone would take out the shields with ease) Earth ships, and possibly allied Jaffa/Tok'ra ships available to them, there's just no way the Daedalus will be able to survive trying to attack Earth. There's also an issue of if they know what rings are and how to protect them so someone can't ring aboard (persumably they'll be able to change the shield frequencies so Earth can't beam people aboard/pass through with 302s).

Plus, it really is pointless. So you can fit a hundred or so Wraith unboard...Are you really going to try to get a foothold in the Milky Way with so few Wraith? Even if they try to make several trips to carry over enough Wraith to man ships that they grow somewhere in the Milky Way, they can carry over two few at a time to be sucessful before Earth puts an end to it. It's much better to either try to reverse engineer some of the tech and, if they can't use those hyperdrives to upgrade their, then use the navigational computer to get Atlantis location and launch a fleet at it. They can figure out how to upgrade their hyperdrives if they're able to take the city for sure.



Depends if the crystal needed to dial galaxies was destroyed in the blast or not. If not, they can dial Earth once they get another gate and they can do that easily with the help of the Travelers.

but how will they contact the travelers?

RepliVeggie
September 27th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Ori beam weapons were doing almost no damage to the mountian the Dakara super weapon was in until the weapon itself was hit. How are our beam weapons gonna penetrate hundreds of feet of rock to get to the SGC. The Dakara Super Weapon control room was above ground and able to withstand the Ori beams.

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Ori beam weapons were doing almost no damage to the mountian the Dakara super weapon was in until the weapon itself was hit. How are our beam weapons gonna penetrate hundreds of feet of rock to get to the SGC. The Dakara Super Weapon control room was above ground and able to withstand the Ori beams.

Fair Point.

The White House/ The Pentagon/ Various Major US Cities.

Just to cut off the head of the powers of Earth, to throw it into confusion. Why send 304s out to help other Planets when your own Planet has been cast into chaos and turmoil (especially if the attacks reveal the Program/ Alien/ etc to the world, throwing it into riots and such. Makes it much less of a threat if Earth is having to deal with itself alongside the Wraith attacking planets in the Milky Way.

RepliVeggie
September 27th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Fair Point.

The White House/ The Pentagon/ Various Major US Cities.

Just to cut off the head of the powers of Earth, to throw it into confusion. Why send 304s out to help other Planets when your own Planet has been cast into chaos and turmoil (especially if the attacks reveal the Program/ Alien/ etc to the world, throwing it into riots and such. Makes it much less of a threat if Earth is having to deal with itself alongside the Wraith attacking planets in the Milky Way.

Im pretty sure that US Airforce has spent a large amount of time finding someone with the gene who can use the Control Chair and has someone there too. They can't expect O'niel or Shepphard to be there everything Earth is in danger.

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Im pretty sure that US Airforce has spent a large amount of time finding someone with the gene who can use the Control Chair and has someone there too. They can't expect O'niel or Shepphard to be there everything Earth is in danger.

Well, with the Control Chair in Antarctica being thousands of miles away from North America, I think the Daedalus would be safe from it, especially if it jumped into Earth's orbit, fired it's uberbeam at New York/ Washing DC, then jumped out again. Especially as they'd be taken completely by suprise; they wouldn't have enough time to react before it's too late.

SGFerrit
September 27th, 2008, 12:25 PM
I think he'll do what the Wraith did in Allies, and take not only the location of Earth, but also information regarding the advanced Asgard hyperdrives.

Xaeden
September 27th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Earth wouldn't be aware of the gathering Wraith in the Milky Way. Especially if they remain hidden on some uninhabitable planet for a while. It's not like they're going to stumble across them, or the Daedalus.

It would take around 36 days to go from the Milky Way to the Pegaus galaxy, plus whatever time spent making pit stops. Assuming they can carry about 100 Wraith each trip (Earth ships aren't that big, they need to bring some food along as well, and they're going to need supplies to boot) that's only about 1000 Wraith which can cross over each year. While, sure, queens could help produce more once in the Milky Way, (even though letting queens on the plan means Todd has to go back to not being charge) they can only do so much and will still depend on transporting lots of Wraith over. In all that time they are going to start to have to use to the Stargate to get food (or supplies since the Daedalus' space is limited and growing a fleet of ships requires power sources and lot of components for the parts that cannot be grown) and eventually they are going to screw up and information about what kidnapped a bunch of people is going to get back to Earth. They will then begin a search and eventually figure out what is going on. There is just no way they can maintain a presence in the Milky Way without being detected for as long as it takes for them to bring a large population of Wraith over (they'd have to secretly build a massive fleet and have enough Wraith to man them if they hope to go up against the Milky Way's forces). And all of this is assuming that they have detailed information about Milky Way planets stored on the Daedalus and so they don't have to randomly search for some place to hide in the first place, which increases their risk of detection, or none of the other Wraith find out what Todd is up to and betray him to Atlantis who will be actively searching for the Daedalus on their end.

All in all in, it's a stupid, time consuming plan that goes to hell if your one ship capable of going between galaxies is taken out. While it may be a plan that one of the many shortsighted Wraith would come up with, Todd is too clever for that. He would do everything in his power to use it (one way or another) to upgrade Wraith hyperdrives and only then would going to the Milky Way be an option.

The Prophet
September 27th, 2008, 01:09 PM
It would take around 36 days to go from the Milky Way to the Pegaus galaxy, plus whatever time spent making pit stops. Assuming they can carry about 100 Wraith each trip (Earth ships aren't that big, they need to bring some food along as well, and they're going to need supplies to boot) that's only about 1000 Wraith which can cross over each year. While, sure, queens could help produce more once in the Milky Way, (even though letting queens on the plan means Todd has to go back to not being charge) they can only do so much and will still depend on transporting lots of Wraith over. In all that time they are going to start to have to use to the Stargate to get food and eventually they are going to screw up and information about what kidnapped a bunch of people is going to get back to Earth. They will then begin a search and eventually figure out what is going on. There is just no way they can maintain a presence in the Milky Way without being detected for as long as it takes for them to bring a large population of Wraith over (they'd have to secretly build a massive fleet and have enough Wraith to man them if they hope to go up against the Milky Way's forces). And all of this is assuming that they have detailed information about Milky Way planets stored on the Daedalus and so they don't have to randomly search for some place to hide in the first place which increases their risk of detection or none of the other Wraith find out what Todd is up to and betray him to Atlantis who will be actively searching for the Daedalus on their end.

All in all in, it's a stupid, time consuming plan that goes to hell if your one ship capable of going between galaxies is taken out. While it may be a plan that one of the many shortsighted Wraith would come up with, Todd is too clever for that. He would do everything in his power to use it (one way or another) to upgrade Wraith hyperdrives and only then would going to the Milky Way be an option.

Actually, when put that way; that sounds far better than anything I said :P

Upgrading the Wraith Cruisers with 304 Hyperdrives/ Shields & Weapons ftw!

Regphorph
September 28th, 2008, 01:57 AM
they could keep a low profile on a planet with humans but without a stargate and build up their numbers

wise one
September 28th, 2008, 02:24 AM
3 replicator controlled beliskners could take on 5 normal asgard controlled beliskners and yet the repliactor managed to destroy them(i think it was that much in the episode)

i doubt the asgard shields are that of the ori shields otherwise our beams would do much agaisnt our own ships

just because they are the same make and dsign doesnt mean they are acceptable to they own fire

goauld hataks can destroy one another in a fight so a 304 v 304 would make someone victorious at the end

Invictus
September 28th, 2008, 02:40 AM
Considering that (The Last Man spoilers)
the Phoenix was critically damaged by 3 Hive ships fairly quickly I doubt that the Daedalus could last long against two Earth ships. Not to mention Ori ships are destroyed in about 6 hits, which means that the similarly/less shielded Daedalus would only have to take 2 or 3 beams from each ship.

Maybe the writers well make an exception, so that the scene may last longer... Or be more dramatic. or something like that. :D

Invictus
September 28th, 2008, 02:45 AM
3 replicator controlled beliskners could take on 5 normal asgard controlled beliskners and yet the repliactor managed to destroy them(i think it was that much in the episode)

i doubt the asgard shields are that of the ori shields otherwise our beams would do much agaisnt our own ships

just because they are the same make and dsign doesnt mean they are acceptable to they own fire

goauld hataks can destroy one another in a fight so a 304 v 304 would make someone victorious at the end

Makes perfectly sens, what you are saying over here. I mean, if a 304 goes against a 304, the battle well last longer because the upgraded shields, or it well last less, because of the beaming weaponry. :D

Xaeden
September 28th, 2008, 03:07 AM
they could keep a low profile on a planet with humans but without a stargate and build up their numbers

In order to launch an attack on the Milky Way without bringing any ships over, except the Daedalus, they're going to need to spend a very long time building up their forces and any planet that has a population large enough to sustain both the vast amount of numbers they will need to gather secretly and the repeated feedings over such a prolonged period of time, is not going to be subjugated by one F-304 and a 100 or so Wraith. Even if the planet has nothing to take out the Daedalus' shields with and the Daedalus is able to carefully destroy key targets to make them as helpless as possible, they're going to have to fly the ship away at some point to bring more Wraith over from the Pegasus galaxy and only a small contingent of Wraith will be left behind on the ground with whatever darts they were able to store in the 302 bays. By the time the Daedalus returns, any industrialized world (which are the only ones which can maintain massive populations) would have those Wraith left behind on the run.

But in the end, no matter what they do, at some point they are going to have to reveal themselves by using the gate and it will always happen before they are ready to even think about going head to head with the various space faring races of the galaxy. It just can't work and there's no reason for it to even be attempted. They should be able to use the Daedalus' hyperdrive to improve their own on a fleet wide level and if for some reason it's incompatible with their hyperdrive technology, then they have a big advantage against Atlantis now and a successful attack against it will lead to the technology and knowledge they need to upgrade their hyperdrives for sure. Plus, the combined technology they get from both Atlantis and the Daedalus could lead to an array of upgrades which will give them the edge they need if they hope to be able to go up against all the Milky Way has to combat them.