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View Full Version : Showing vs. Telling



FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 03:35 PM
Regardless of how you feel about shipping or the current/past ships in Stargateverse, what do you guys think about how the McKeller ship has unfolded?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong and I've missed certain key-parts in the McKeller storylines, but this is how I remember it:
* Rodney and Jennifer fall down a hole (with Sam)
* They kill time discussing what men they'd rather sleep with (with Rodney eventually joining in, hi hi, ho, ho, ha, ha)
* Rodney and Jennifer have a drink together
* A lot of nothing
* Rodney starts to lose his mind and randomly blurts out "I love you" in a video diary

(There was also the alternate future BS in "The Last Man", but in that one, Rodney specifically said that they got together because they bonded over grief, loss and other BS things and, hello, alternate future)

Wait... what?

Now, I might not like the ship and I might have preferred to not see it at all, but if they're gonna make it overt and canon, they better show us the buildup!

As it stands, it's pretty friggin' random! I mean, yes, there was the alternate timeline thing, but, hey, Sam married that negotiator guy in that alternate timeline and then he died.

This romance had pretty much zero buildup. They had a drink, then John saw an alternate timeline that will not come to pass and wham, Rodney's so much in love he's ready to declare his love for Jennifer and wants to give us his spare time going off-world with her to visit sick people or whatever. Even with the alternate timeline, that's not enough to have Rodney go from a drink to "I love you".

Ummm... OK. So what do you guys think? I think I'd prefer to actually see more of this than have it randomly pop up. As it stands, IMO, this is a pretty random ship that progressed way, way, way too far off-screen.

Stormtrooper
September 23rd, 2008, 04:10 PM
That's true. The relationship between McKay and Keller started in one timeline, and leaped to another without explanation. Therefore, I expect the writers to kill Keller just like in the original timeline (The Last Man). Sheppard is half expecting it already.

Ackeb
September 23rd, 2008, 04:15 PM
Killing her mey be a little severe, just let Ronon have her instead.

Jumper_One
September 23rd, 2008, 04:16 PM
That's true. The relationship between McKay and Keller started in one timeline, and leaped to another without explanation. Therefore, I expect the writers to kill Keller just like in the original timeline (The Last Man).

LOL :P


Sheppard is half expecting it already.

how so?

mellow yellow
September 23rd, 2008, 04:37 PM
Disclaimer-I ship for ther other team :) Ronon/Jenn but I do understand what you are saying about showing vs. telling.

I don't think McKay is in Love with Keller. I think McKay likes her and we now know he wants a relationship with her.

I think some (for or against ship) are taking things out of context. Just because they went out for a drink doesn't mean Keller wanted to go because she liked McKay in that way.

I'm assuming Trio was the first time they got to spend time with each other and Keller probably realized that McKay wasn't so bad and wouldn't mind hanging out with him. Just like in real life you work with someone and one day you get to talking and you realize this person is cool and you end up going out after work for a drink.

In The Shrine, McKay was out of his mind and I'm thinking he probably wanted to say he liked her but love came out instead. People loose touch with reality sometimes..like being drunk..you may confess to someone that you love them but what you were really trying to say was I like you..I have a crush on you.

FallenAngelII
September 24th, 2008, 03:49 AM
That's true. The relationship between McKay and Keller started in one timeline, and leaped to another without explanation. Therefore, I expect the writers to kill Keller just like in the original timeline (The Last Man). Sheppard is half expecting it already.
I like (love) that theory! It's as logical as the current situation, if not moreso!



In The Shrine, McKay was out of his mind and I'm thinking he probably wanted to say he liked her but love came out instead. People loose touch with reality sometimes..like being drunk..you may confess to someone that you love them but what you were really trying to say was I like you..I have a crush on you.
But Rodney is a man of a lot of thinking and contemplation. Just take a look at his relationship with Katie. I don't think he'd ever say "love" without really meaning it. And I don't think the writers would let Rodney say it without meaning it either.

For Rodney, the person that he is, with problems expression emotions, over-thinker to the extreme and past 40, to have him just declare his love without meaning it would set a bad example for the younger crowd which is already doing it willy nilly.

And I think that was one of those moments of clarity, when his mind wasn't completely fried. He sounded normal, after all. But maybe he'd forgotten a few things and gotten "like" mixed up with "love", dunno.

I think he meant it (and as such, it made no sense).

Also, if he just "liked" her, then it'd make no sense to tell her before he lost his mind completely. Why would he tell her this? "Oh, and BTW, I like you." ... um... OK? "Wow, Rodney, you like me! Yay!"

And why would Jennifer sit teary-eyed and rewatch that segment if she didn't have feelings for him back? I don't think we're merely talking about a little "like" here. It's either love or a very strong sense of "like".

Pandora's_Box
September 24th, 2008, 06:29 AM
Would I have preferred TPTB to have shown more detail in the progression of the McKeller storyline? I think any shipper (I can't believe I just called myself that) wishes and hopes to get a fully fleshed out relationship between two particular characters.

Sure I would have liked to see Jennifer running into Rodney while he spoke to stasis!Carson (that's something you missed, FA. The Seed is particularly rife with McKeller subtext) or see Rodney mumble and flirt clumsily while fixing her laptop or something (something he could have had someone else do).

But I'm also conscious of the fact that SGA has never been about 'ships. Certainly not serious sexual relationships. Unless, of course, either of the party are going to die.

SGA is an SF show replete with action, aliens, spaceships, team-building, and "the best man-on-man friendships you'll ever see!!!" and developing a real, meaningful relationship between two people takes more than a bit of time and writing. And that means taking away from what people have grown accustomed to seeing on SGA and certainly from what Stargate has ben marketed as for the past 13 years.

As it stands, I like that TPTB are finally coming to the conclusion that 13 years and 300 episodes later, some main characters are bound to fall in love, get married, and make babies. But I don't really need to see all the nitty, gritty details.

There's so much about SGA that I suspend my disbelief for in order to watch it without cringing that I can do it just a little bit longer so as to get some enjoyment out of McKeller.

If the only things that ever happened to these characters was what we see on screen, then I would never believe that Rodney could fall in love or anyone else for that matter. But it takes some imagination and, I guess, a will to want to make sense of the realtionship to imagine the inbetween stuff we didn't see.

Show vs. Tell? Obviously showing would be wonderful, but this isn't the show for that. I'll watch BSG for spacesex and overly deep storylines. SGA I'll watch for the humourous characters and relatively compelling storylines.

Brain_Child
September 24th, 2008, 07:11 AM
I really dont think the relationship is anywhere yet, keep in mind Rodney's poor state of mind when he said 'i love you', he is not at that stage now. I'm just expecting there to be an episode which is centered around the relationship, episode starts with "previously on..." and a quick montage of those key moments and then an episode where Rodney wins the girl

I really dont think anything has happened yet. I would say the relationship is the equivalent of both of them being in high school. Keller likes mckay and mckay likes keller. but mckay is trying to see if keller likes him back before he does anything. The writers arent idiots, if something is going to happen, they will make it overt. Its not like the next episode is going to open with Keller in having a baby ;)

Pandora's_Box
September 24th, 2008, 09:10 AM
It wouldn't be the first time a show suddenly decided to pull a "X years later" scenario.

Alias I'm looking at you. :: grumble grumble grumble ::

Although, if anymore people have babies on SGA (granted that'll be hard seeing as how the last season is practically half over) I'm officially giving up.

Lianne
September 24th, 2008, 09:23 AM
Dude, you really like starting new topics, donīt you? :P

I agree, but this is Atlantis we are talking about - this show has erased "buildup" from its production dictionary a loong time ago...

Showfan
September 24th, 2008, 10:09 AM
I agree. It's almost laughable what the writers expect us to swallow.

I mean, come on, seriously? Only last season, episode 13, Quarantine, McKay was ready to pop the question to Katie Brown. Two episodes later he has a beer with Keller. Cut to this season, episode 6, The Shrine, and he's "...been in love with her for a very long time."

I realize that there are always time differences from ep to ep, things we might not see, but honestly Trio was episode 16 of the season and after that things moved pretty quickly. Also, no time stretch between Kindred one and two and between The Last Man and Search and Rescue.

I swear if it wasn't for The Last Man's brainwashing attempt to make fans believe in a relationship that never, ever happened, more fans would be questioning this quickie romance too.

Telling rather than showing is a great big writing no-no. Therefore McKeller is the result of some very bad writing. If McKay never announced his LOVE to Keller in that video in The Shrine, I would never have seen anything on screen to support it.

IMO, the fans had to be told McKay loved Keller..because there was nothing there for them to see.

Showfan
September 24th, 2008, 10:18 AM
That's true. The relationship between McKay and Keller started in one timeline, and leaped to another without explanation. Therefore, I expect the writers to kill Keller just like in the original timeline (The Last Man). Sheppard is half expecting it already.


Yes, totally. That's exactly what happened.

Thank god the show ended before we were forced to see the episode next season where Keller becomes ill, McKay emotes and declares his love at her deathbed, Sheppard feels guilty for not telling McKay the love of his life died in the alternate timeline, Carson races against the clock to save Keller's life and Ronon and Teyla...have nothing to do.


:ronan::sheppard::mckay::teyla:

FallenAngelII
September 24th, 2008, 10:28 AM
Yes, totally. That's exactly what happened.

Thank god the show ended before we were forced to see the episode next season where Keller becomes ill, McKay emotes and declares his love at her deathbed, Sheppard feels guilty for not telling McKay the love of his life died in the alternate timeline, Carson races against the clock to save Keller's life and Ronon and Teyla...have nothing to do.


:ronan::sheppard::mckay::teyla:
Hush. Don't give them ideas for the movie!

bluealien
September 24th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Yes, totally. That's exactly what happened.

Thank god the show ended before we were forced to see the episode next season where Keller becomes ill, McKay emotes and declares his love at her deathbed, Sheppard feels guilty for not telling McKay the love of his life died in the alternate timeline, Carson races against the clock to save Keller's life and Ronon and Teyla...have nothing to do.


:ronan::sheppard::mckay::teyla:

:lol:

Linda06
September 24th, 2008, 02:04 PM
Yes, totally. That's exactly what happened.

Thank god the show ended before we were forced to see the episode next season where Keller becomes ill, McKay emotes and declares his love at her deathbed, Sheppard feels guilty for not telling McKay the love of his life died in the alternate timeline, Carson races against the clock to save Keller's life and Ronon and Teyla...have nothing to do.


:ronan::sheppard::mckay::teyla:

This would be so funny.....If it wasn't so true :S

FallenAngelII
September 24th, 2008, 04:06 PM
This would be so funny.....If it wasn't so true :S
If the movie come even close to being like that, I'm holding Showfan personally responsible. There will be cats!

Showfan
September 24th, 2008, 06:44 PM
If the movie come even close to being like that, I'm holding Showfan personally responsible. There will be cats!

Cats! OMG...anything but cats!

Seriously? I don't put it past them! Keller is pretty much the writer's darling...much to my chagrin. The entire season already revolves around her, why not the movie?

:sheppard::ronan::mckay::teyla:

Lucylee
September 24th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Cats! OMG...anything but cats!


Well, personally, I think Rodney has been shown to have a deeper relationship with his cat than with Keller. ;)

Phenix
September 24th, 2008, 07:40 PM
I'm not even convinced that Rodney is capable of any feeling other than egotism. There was absolutely no build up to this relationship. The Seed shows some but it also shows Ronon attacking the ship to save Keller. I picked up on that much more than McKay. I remembered Ronon having a conversation with Keller about who he reminded her of. I saw that on screen and it stuck with me. Having a beer with Mckay was not shown and I've never really seen Keller and McKay interact. The episode where McKay says he loved her was entirely forced and didn't really make much sense other than that SGA has trouble handing carry over from one episode to the next.

CazzBlade
September 25th, 2008, 02:18 AM
Telling rather than showing is a great big writing no-no. Therefore McKeller is the result of some very bad writing. If McKay never announced his LOVE to Keller in that video in The Shrine, I would never have seen anything on screen to support it.

IMO, the fans had to be told McKay loved Keller..because there was nothing there for them to see.

My dad watched The Shrine for the first time the other day and after Rodney's declaration he asked me: "Who's he talking to? :confused:" :lol:

FallenAngelII
September 25th, 2008, 07:46 AM
My dad watched The Shrine for the first time the other day and after Rodney's declaration he asked me: "Who's he talking to? :confused:" :lol:
It was obviously the lovely man in your sig. Jennifer intercepted it and hid it away so John would never know. Stargate Atlantis: Love Rectangle Edition in all of its glory.

maxbo
September 25th, 2008, 10:34 AM
Yes, totally. That's exactly what happened.

Thank god the show ended before we were forced to see the episode next season where Keller becomes ill, McKay emotes and declares his love at her deathbed, Sheppard feels guilty for not telling McKay the love of his life died in the alternate timeline, Carson races against the clock to save Keller's life and Ronon and Teyla...have nothing to do.


:ronan::sheppard::mckay::teyla:

I'm also thankful that the show ended before we could be subjected to another scene of Rodney railing against the gods because he couldn't save his beloved Keller. However, given their love for this forced, out-of-the-blue ship, TPTB may decide to add the above scenario to the movie, so we aren't completely in the clear yet. :S


My dad watched The Shrine for the first time the other day and after Rodney's declaration he asked me: "Who's he talking to? :confused:" :lol:
:lol: That's too funny.

I have a feeling that your dad wasn't alone in his confusion because even if you go back and carefully review every prior Rodney and Keller moment, I can't see how Rodney could have been "in love with her for some time". That's plot-driven writing at its worse.

elliecat
September 25th, 2008, 12:02 PM
I'm also thankful that the show ended before we could be subjected to another scene of Rodney railing against the gods because he couldn't save his beloved Keller. However, given their love for this forced, out-of-the-blue ship, TPTB may decide to add the above scenario to the movie, so we aren't completely in the clear yet. :S

I have a feeling that your dad wasn't alone in his confusion because even if you go back and carefully review every prior Rodney and Keller moment, I can't see how Rodney could have been "in love with her for some time". That's plot-driven writing at its worse.

Urgh, hate the thought of Rodney even talking to Keller, let alone railing against the odds for her. :(

That's what confuses me, this whole thing has come from nowhere imo and he's supposed to be in love with her?? Do they think that by telling us about it so much and having a couple of scenes like the one from the Shrine where Rodney admits he loves her (still think he meant 'John' not 'Jen' ;)), will maybe make people go "oh yeah, they must be in love because everyone's talking about it" they are trying to trick us I tell you! There is no chemistry between them imo and they want to rush things, so they go on about love triangles and such, and then we are meant to believe that they have always had a spark or something.

Well, i'm not falling for it!! :p :D

Pandora's_Box
September 25th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Well, i'm not falling for it!! :p :D

Dude, I so am. :D

Only because it's tons of fun!

elliecat
September 25th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Dude, I so am. :D

Only because it's tons of fun!

Hehe I wish I could, I really do coz I love Rodney so much! :D I just want him to be happy with Shep is all! :p :D

Pandora's_Box
September 25th, 2008, 12:09 PM
Hehe I wish I could, I really do coz I love Rodney so much! :D I just want him to be happy with Shep is all! :p :D

My eyes! My ears!

My brain!

:: scrubs with bleach ::

In short....I don't see it.

GateofDOOM
September 26th, 2008, 03:18 PM
My eyes! My ears!

My brain!

:: scrubs with bleach ::

In short....I don't see it.

:eek:

Stop! It's not healthy!


:p

Lothriel
October 2nd, 2008, 05:42 PM
I believe that Keller while making her bed, found some of the "special weed" that *takes a deep and quivering breath before uttering the dreaded words* Lucius Lavin *shudders and gags* left behind and turned it into a perfume which overcame the antidote Beckett made.

I personally believe that this is the *ONLY* explaination for how this stupid love triangle could have appeared out of nowhere and how two men who barely speak to her are suddenly falling over themselves...(or their dreadlocks) to get to her.

In total honesty though, I would be a happier bunny if the whole thing just got swallowed up in one of TPTB wormholes that tend to happen at the end of Atlantis episodes and suck away all character development.