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View Full Version : Is this what we deserve after 5 years? A love triangle?



FallenAngelII
September 20th, 2008, 10:16 AM
I mean, Atlantis has dipped into the soapy well before, but this is just too much.

After almost 5 years and almost 5 seasons, this is what we get? The writers finally man up enough to make some shipping canonical instead of just being "wink wink, nudge, nudge" like with the whole Sam & Jack thing which drove all sides nuts.

Finally we get something that's not just years of "Will they or won't they". And what happens? Love triangle.

I'm glad they've finally stopped "Will they or won't they":ing us. But what we got in exchange was, in my opinion, even worse (unless Ronon's just pulling Rodney's leg, which, after the episode and previous hints, seem unlikely).

I mean, horrible ship and buildup to the ship and whatnot aside (subjective opinion), schmaltzy and frankly unnecessary random shipping aside as well, this one takes the cake. An honest-to-Wii love triangle... that's just... no.

Please make it stop, writers!

expendable_crewman
September 20th, 2008, 10:22 AM
I'm going to let it play out before I slash my wrists.

Wait ... I may not have to slash my wrists, thank God-- for me, anyway. If I look hard enough, I may be able to find the remote.

P-90_177
September 20th, 2008, 10:26 AM
The problem is that the writers seem to listen to the fans to much. They try to make EVERYBODY happy by having all the ships running simulatenously. I mean when Weir was still around you had John having Shippy moments with both Weir and Teyla because there were both Teyla/John and Weir/John shippers. The same thing is happening again now.

Reiko
September 20th, 2008, 10:38 AM
Of course we don't deserve it -- but after dishing out Keller, crappy character death and sexism, what more can you expect.

I predict M&M's reign over SGA would end very badly, but what else is new?

FallenAngelII
September 20th, 2008, 11:23 AM
The problem is that the writers seem to listen to the fans to much. They try to make EVERYBODY happy by having all the ships running simulatenously. I mean when Weir was still around you had John having Shippy moments with both Weir and Teyla because there were both Teyla/John and Weir/John shippers. The same thing is happening again now.
Exactly. How about they just don't ship at all?

We got 8 years or "Will they or won't they" with Sam & Jack that left nobody truly happy. For one thing, it drew on for way too long and almost nothing happened in those 8 years, anyway. All the real shipping we got during those 8 years were alt!Universe and alt!Timeline shipping (some of which made zero sense, like the "Moebius" one where they weren't even the same people, I mean, Sam was a completely different person).

In 15 seasons of Stargate insofar, I don't think the PtB have been able to present a single well-handled ship. It's all been frustrating and bad and blah.

Why not just leave the shipping alone? There are plenty of us who are content to guessing/Shipping/Slashing ourselves based on character dynamic and friendships. This is a sci-fi show about an expedition trying to save two (now one) galaxies.

Why must shipping play a prominent part in it?

And so they insist on shipping... and do it badly.

P-90_177
September 20th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Exactly. How about they just don't ship at all?

We got 8 years or "Will they or won't they" with Sam & Jack that left nobody truly happy. For one thing, it drew on for way too long and almost nothing happened in those 8 years, anyway. All the real shipping we got during those 8 years were alt!Universe and alt!Timeline shipping (some of which made zero sense, like the "Moebius" one where they weren't even the same people, I mean, Sam was a completely different person).

In 15 seasons of Stargate insofar, I don't think the PtB have been able to present a single well-handled ship. It's all been frustrating and bad and blah.

Why not just leave the shipping alone? There are plenty of us who are content to guessing/Shipping/Slashing ourselves based on character dynamic and friendships. This is a sci-fi show about an expedition trying to save two (now one) galaxies.

Why must shipping play a prominent part in it?

And so they insist on shipping... and do it badly.

Stargate has always done shipping very badly. In comparison Star Trek does them really well.........well..............not Enterprise. I Like Enterprise but the whole T'Pol/Trip thing did my head in.

jenks
September 20th, 2008, 12:08 PM
There's nothing wrong with a 'love triangle', it just sounds stupid when you say it. Works fine in Lost, no one complains about that.

fumblesmcstupid
September 20th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Love Triangle are Stupid!

Joey/Pacey/Dawson (Dawson got hurt)

Sawyer/Kate/Jack (no one has won ANYTHING from that horror story)

Rodney/Ronon/Keller (still waiting for the fallout)

People get hurt in triangles and I for one Don't like seeing people I like to watch, hurt their friends just cause the writers think that angst is cool!

You might like them, but I didn't watch last night's episode... in 15 years I have NOT missed one but, because I LOVE Rodney and I like Ronon and I LOATH what the PTB are doing to these two smart men I boycotted it!

I watched my brother get so mad at Dawson's Creek with the Triangle, Now I a PIZZED off about this DEBACLE on SGAiI could scream!!!!!

jenks
September 20th, 2008, 12:56 PM
If you can't separate fiction from reality then that's your problem.

fumblesmcstupid
September 20th, 2008, 01:03 PM
ahhhhhh your just cute as a button!!!

I watch a tv show for the ENJOYMENT of the characters!!

maxbo
September 20th, 2008, 01:20 PM
ahhhhhh your just cute as a button!!!

I watch a tv show for the ENJOYMENT of the characters!!

Same here, fumbles. I also watch for the enjoyment of the characters and if the spoilers are such that I don't think I'll enjoy the characters, then I won't watch. Because of this, I didn't watch Trackers and was kind of sad to realize that not watching was much easier than I expected.

jyh
September 20th, 2008, 01:23 PM
P-90 177: The problem is that the writers seem to listen to the fans to much. They try to make EVERYBODY happy by having all the ships running simulatenously. I mean when Weir was still around you had John having Shippy moments with both Weir and Teyla because there were both Teyla/John and Weir/John shippers. The same thing is happening again now.

I agree, the writers should never try to listen to fans & make them (us) happy. It won't work, as there are too many different agendas out here. If the writers don't have their OWN stories to tell, they shouldn't be writing.

FallenAngelII: We got 8 years or "Will they or won't they" with Sam & Jack that left nobody truly happy. For one thing, it drew on for way too long and almost nothing happened in those 8 years, anyway.

SG-1 never got into explicit 'shipping,' and I for one was always "truly happy" about that. I think the writers were smart not to. For one, it doesn't belong in the military and both Sam & Jack knew it. The fact it went on for 8 years is only because they worked together for 8 years. And what happened once O'Neil transferred out of the SGC has only been left to our imaginations. Where it belongs!!!

Truthfully, I think the writers of SG-1 just never knew what to do with it or how to handle it, so they just didn't do anything. But since I didn't want to see it, I was good with that. (If I want sappy relationships and smoochy-smoochy scenes, I'll watch one of those crappy prime-time dramas.)

So my opinion, in short: NO SHIPPING. None. Don't do it. Stop it.

;)

Yaxez
September 20th, 2008, 01:53 PM
There's nothing wrong with a 'love triangle', it just sounds stupid when you say it. Works fine in Lost, no one complains about that.
Indeed, well said.

FallenAngelII
September 20th, 2008, 01:56 PM
There's nothing wrong with a 'love triangle', it just sounds stupid when you say it. Works fine in Lost, no one complains about that.
I don't watch "Lost" but I assume they're doing it well. The SGPtB can't even write a normal ship well, let alone a "love triangle". Also, this isn't "Days of Our Lives". This is Stargate Atlantis. Ships involving only two people is already a lot for a show like Stargate Atlantis, a love triangle is just not necessary and out of place in what should otherwise be a dark sci-fi space opera.

Also, "no one" complains about the "Lost" love triangle, you say? Care to wager 100 dollars on that?


If you can't separate fiction from reality then that's your problem.
It's not about that. Stop strawmanning every single debate you enter into. It's about not liking seeing certain things because it's plain not entertaining to you (you can disagree if you want).



SG-1 never got into explicit 'shipping,' and I for one was always "truly happy" about that. I think the writers were smart not to. For one, it doesn't belong in the military and both Sam & Jack knew it. The fact it went on for 8 years is only because they worked together for 8 years. And what happened once O'Neil transferred out of the SGC has only been left to our imaginations. Where it belongs!!!
But that's the thing, you weren't really "truly happy". Since you didn't like it but were forced to watch it for 8 years with sporadic appearances, I can't imagine you actually liking it when it did happen. I for one didn't enjoy almost every episode surrounding alternate universes or timelines ultimate descend into "Oh, and Sam is dating Jack".

It was OK the first time. But it just got reaaaaally tiresome after a short while, especially when the "Will they or won't they" started up in our!Universe.

It should've been left to each shipper's imagination, yes. I don't understand this obsession some fans seem to have about wanting all of their shows to have canon ships. I mean, this isn't some soap opera or relationship drama. It's an ensemble sci-fi show.


Truthfully, I think the writers of SG-1 just never knew what to do with it or how to handle it, so they just didn't do anything. But since I didn't want to see it, I was good with that. (If I want sappy relationships and smoochy-smoochy scenes, I'll watch one of those crappy prime-time dramas.)
It's more like they were scared little bunnies who didn't want to upset anyone, yet they still wanted to push their agenda with S&J.

jyh
September 20th, 2008, 02:36 PM
But that's the thing, you weren't really "truly happy". Since you didn't like it but were forced to watch it for 8 years with sporadic appearances, I can't imagine you actually liking it when it did happen. I for one didn't enjoy almost every episode surrounding alternate universes or timelines ultimate descend into "Oh, and Sam is dating Jack".

It was OK the first time. But it just got reaaaaally tiresome after a short while, especially when the "Will they or won't they" started up in our!Universe.

It should've been left to each shipper's imagination, yes. I don't understand this obsession some fans seem to have about wanting all of their shows to have canon ships. I mean, this isn't some soap opera or relationship drama. It's an ensemble sci-fi show.

Actually, I was happy (and I should know), because I did NOT have to see explicit shipping. There were a few episodes when you could see a look in Jack's eye, or Sam gives him a look, but it was never really overt or forced down our throats, and could even be explained by the fact that they'd served together for so long, and cared for each other as fellow team-members. That's because the writers left it --all together now!-- to our imaginations.

Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs quoted above are spot-on. It was almost funny whenever there was an alternate-universe episode: would Sam&Jack be married? engaged? divorced? happy parents? It was always one or the other. And I fully, 100% agree w/ you that "this is an ensemble sci-fi show," and not a soap opera.

Whew!! Now, why aren't those writers and producers soliciting our ideas??
:p

Integrabyte
September 20th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Actually, I was happy (and I should know), because I did NOT have to see explicit shipping. There were a few episodes when you could see a look in Jack's eye, or Sam gives him a look, but it was never really overt or forced down our throats, and could even be explained by the fact that they'd served together for so long, and cared for each other as fellow team-members. That's because the writers left it --all together now!-- to our imaginations.

Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs quoted above are spot-on. It was almost funny whenever there was an alternate-universe episode: would Sam&Jack be married? engaged? divorced? happy parents? It was always one or the other. And I fully, 100% agree w/ you that "this is an ensemble sci-fi show," and not a soap opera.

Whew!! Now, why aren't those writers and producers soliciting our ideas??
:p


Why would they?

jyh
September 20th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Why would they? (that is, solicit our ideas)

They wouldn't. But it seems that they've been reading too many board posts and trying to give the shippers what they want. If they listen to THOSE posts, they should listen to OURS. :sam43:

I know, I know, it'll never happen. Nor should it... EVER.

FallenAngelII
September 20th, 2008, 05:29 PM
Actually, I was happy (and I should know), because I did NOT have to see explicit shipping. There were a few episodes when you could see a look in Jack's eye, or Sam gives him a look, but it was never really overt or forced down our throats, and could even be explained by the fact that they'd served together for so long, and cared for each other as fellow team-members. That's because the writers left it --all together now!-- to our imaginations.
I meant that you weren't "truly happy" ("True happiness"/"Perfect happiness"). While you were happy that you didn't have to have it shoved down your throat, I doubt seeing it hinted at (pretty often, I might add) made you happy.

So you weren't unhappy with the situation, it just wasn't true/perfect happiness.


Whew!! Now, why aren't those writers and producers soliciting our ideas??
:p
Probably because they're big Mary Sues and looooove S&J.

jyh
September 20th, 2008, 06:47 PM
I meant that you weren't "truly happy" ("True happiness"/"Perfect happiness"). While you were happy that you didn't have to have it shoved down your throat, I doubt seeing it hinted at (pretty often, I might add) made you happy.

I see your point. But honestly, it never felt like it was shoved down my throat by the show. Just obliquely hinted at from time to time, which I could either indulge or ignore. Actually, if it weren't for all the hoopla about it on these boards, I might not have noticed it half as much as I did. That'll teach me. Stay away from these board so those traitorous thoughts won't be implanted in my head. **Hits self on the side of head: "Out, out, [email protected] thought! Join all the rest of 'em there on the floor." **

:weiranime34:

FallenAngelII
September 20th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I see your point. But honestly, it never felt like it was shoved down my throat by the show. Just obliquely hinted at from time to time, which I could either indulge or ignore. Actually, if it weren't for all the hoopla about it on these boards, I might not have noticed it half as much as I did. That'll teach me. Stay away from these board so those traitorous thoughts won't be implanted in my head. **Hits self on the side of head: "Out, out, [email protected] thought! Join all the rest of 'em there on the floor." **

:weiranime34:
I never said it was being shoved down your throat. In fact, I said it wasn't. But despite it not being shoved, it was still gently nudged. And since you didn't like it, not having it around would've been better.

It's like having a perfectly good meal only to find a random ingredient you dislike in it. You can pick it up and throw it away without any loss since it doesn't taint the rest of the food but it would've been much better (for you) had it not been there at all.

Wolf O'Donnell
September 20th, 2008, 09:35 PM
There is nothing wrong with having a love triangle.

Lythisrose
September 20th, 2008, 09:50 PM
There is nothing wrong with having a love triangle.

Yeah, if you like threesomes...;)

Pandora's_Box
September 20th, 2008, 10:02 PM
This show is ultimately about people. People with feelings and desires and wants and needs.

As much as you may want to knock "shipping" in your sci-fi shows, sex and love are (psychologically speaking) the natural counterparts of death and violence. And we have plenty of the former on this show.

As much as you may roll your eyes at the idea of an sort of love beyond friendship and at the sight of characters kissing or flirting or "Kirk-ing", I would be worried if they didn't. Ever. And, quite frankly, I'd feel gypped by TPTB for not showing me fully realized, 3-dimensional characters.

Because, let's face it, people have sex. And they fall in love, or in lust. Whatever. And when they're forced into situations of life-threatening danger and in nightmarish scenes with horror-fil caliber aliens, it's expected that at the end of the day love, warm fuzzy feelings, and yes people, SEX, is what's going to keep them from totally losing their minds.

Was this love triangle the best way to address this topic? Some would argue no. I personally have nothing against it really, aside from the fact that I've never like Ronon much and see this as him getting far too much screentime, but I digress.

It's inevitable that two men may begin to harbour feeling for the same woman and that that woman may harbour feelings of differing, but equally important, magnitude for those men. I believe it. And I don't think it's nearly the catastrophic occurrence on SGA that some people are making it out to be.

Clearly the majority of the audience doesn't feel disgusted by it (or Keller) or the ratings wouldn't have been improving over the past season and a half and online downloads wouldn't be at an all time high.

I don't see why TPTB should shy away from portraying a perfectly natural and expected part of life. You may disagree with the vehicle they employ, but to do away with "shipping" altogether is to take a part of the humanity out of SGA.

And, ultimately, people don't watch the show just to see explosions or chase scenes or people beating up Wraith or vice versa, they come back again and again for the people and their humanity. Sex and love and "shipping" are all a part of that.

Actionhank
September 20th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Well, it's what makes us - relationships...
And it's about introducing the stuff to a broader audience and it works! Besides that - SciFi is about exploring human life. You can practically set up any stage and play through all aspects of our wicket existence to the extreme. ^^ Look around - every successful SciFi-show has shipping. Hmmm, maybe even every successful show does.

Sp!der
September 21st, 2008, 03:47 AM
maybe ronon is not even interessted in keller and just say that to rodney so he has to do smth...well i only can hope that
^^

Integrabyte
September 21st, 2008, 04:13 AM
This show is ultimately about people. People with feelings and desires and wants and needs.

If that is the case they should re-shoot Season 1,2 and 3.



And, ultimately, people don't watch the show just to see explosions or chase scenes or people beating up Wraith or vice versa, they come back again and again for the people and their humanity. Sex and love and "shipping" are all a part of that.



That is a very bold statement speaking for other people. I watched the show because of the Stargate and Atlantis. The two things the show was based in Season 1. On top of that, exploration of the most advanced city in the Stargate universe was interesting too. Hang on, they dropped that because they thought it was boring and they forgot why they started the show. They shot themselves in the leg. If I want to see Sex, Love, drugs and rock and roll, I will watch something else. From what they showed so far, the humanity you mention is not their forte.

thedrumm3rguy
September 21st, 2008, 04:17 AM
hmm.... to solve this they could have the "bring it on" atlantis eposide; where ronan and mckay dance off for keller! :lol:

..it only seems absurd till u watch 'whispers' :D

SGFerrit
September 21st, 2008, 06:03 AM
From what I could see, Ronon wasn't nearly as interested in Keller as McKay, and he was just messing with him at the end.

This 'love triangle' was massively blown out of proportion before the episode aired, and it's still being blown out of proportion by certain people now. People were acting like it was going to totally consume the show, yet it barely even registered, even in an ep that was supposed to focus on it.

FallenAngelII
September 21st, 2008, 06:06 AM
Stuff.
Let me ask you a question, did you watch Stargate SG-1? Specifically the first 8 seasons of it? Did you see how "well" they handled shipping back then? And it hasn't gotten better since, either.

They're incapable of writing good ships when only two people are involved, let alone three. This isn't a giant knock on shipping, I can live with it as long as it's well done. I may have been a bit too harsh, while I prefer ships to not be shoved down our throats when it's not called for (as in, the ships have nothing to do with plot other than to ship for shipping's sake, for instance, Buffy's relationships in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" were mostly plot driven and the very horribly written ones were quickly finished off), I can live with them and even enjoy them when they're well written.

Don't ship for shipping's sake and above all else, ship well. After 8 years of S&J BS and no improvement in sight, I'm pessimistic about this love triangle... thing.

Also, again, this is a dark-ish space opera drama comedy thingie ensemble show about space exploration, fighting bad guys and the Lost City of the Ancients. Not every single show needs to have overt shipping. Not everything has to be everything. While love, sex and relationships is a part of being human, so are tons of other things.

Not everything has to be in every show, especially when they don't fit in with that show's tone and plot. Why have random ships just to have them? For one thing, if they're good, um... well... OK, so now we have two characters getting it on off-camera (or on) and that's that. If it's bad, everybody loses.

If it's plot driven, then it'll help advance the plot and the storyline in general, thus, becoming a natural part of the show's flow instead of just random interludes of "lovey dovey" stuff.

Like this:
Random BS shipping:
* Rodney and Jennifer go on with their daily lives and duties as usual except for sporadic bouts of "lovey dovey", hints that they're doing "romantic stuff" and throwaway comments. Their relationship doesn't affect the show in any way besides possibly a few "Oh noes, save the expedition or save my boy-/girlfriend?"-dilemmas.
Plot driven shipping:
* Rodney and Jennifer get together. Their unions sets about some great change.
* Like Ronon leaving because he's a lover scorned and whatever.
* Ronon leaving leads to all kinds of drama, culminating in the season finale where, oh, say, bunnies attack the expedition and Ronon comes back guns blazing, saving the day, only to have Jennifer left critically wounded with Ronon blaming Rodney for not protecting her and then the series ends.

See? Instead of a ship that's mostly just in the background except for random moments where it's brought forth just to showcase the ship's existence, we can instead have a ship that's woven into the plot, becoming an integral part of it and driving the story forward.

S&J was just random BS that left a lot of people unhappy. And this probably will, too.

Linda06
September 21st, 2008, 06:10 AM
This show is ultimately about people. People with feelings and desires and wants and needs.

As much as you may want to knock "shipping" in your sci-fi shows, sex and love are (psychologically speaking) the natural counterparts of death and violence. And we have plenty of the former on this show.
going to keep them from totally losing their minds.
out of SGA.


So the reason they didn't ship Teyla/John or John/Elizabeth was......They gave us shippy moments with both of them so why didn't they go the rest of the way with them...

And why now after keller's only been on the show a few months she's got two guys running after her!

Didn't they say there'd be no romance between two main characters a while ago....So what do they call Rodney,Keller and Ronon then if they aren't main characters!

tranquil101
September 21st, 2008, 06:31 AM
This triangle "ship" is almost as bizarre as the Daniel/Janet Fraser ship that some fans were after in SG1. Craaazy.

The minor Jack/Sam ship worked because it was subtle, didn't turn into a huge "o.c/dawson's creek" romance and didn't get in the way of the true point of SG1, which is.....exploring unknown worlds!
It was also believable. They spent enough time together, every episode for multiple seasons, so it was generally assumed "feelings" would develop.

This triangle it seems is like a "by the way", an after-thought development.
Like the writers needed an episode to deal with the kiss between Keller and Ronan in Quarantine (S4) and the Keller and Rodney future ship laid out in The Last Man (S4)

I'm also finding it hard to "buy" the concept of either ship. The characters do not seem to be in enough episodes together to form that strong "special" bond. Every week instead of seeing 4 characters together (i.e. SG1) we are seeing one week - John and McKay....the next week it is Keller and Teyla hanging out. There needs to be more of that group bonding...and hopefully we will get that in the upcoming SGU (seeing as they are stuck on a spaceship!)

It will be interesting to watch further developments....in any case, next weeks episode will truly rock!

Brain_Child
September 21st, 2008, 06:53 AM
Perhaps this love triangle was merely a test, to see how the stargate community would react before they begin writing Stargate Universe, which is meant to be more character based. If the love triangle in SGA is unsuccessful they may use it as research in writing Universe.

ToasterOnFire
September 21st, 2008, 06:58 AM
I think the show did just fine for its first 4 years without shipping main characters together. All TPTB had to do was write characters with good chemistry and the shippers took it from there. Gods know this PTB can't write good canon ship, just look at Sam/Jack and the lack of any sort of resolution.

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 09:06 AM
Also, again, this is a dark-ish space opera drama comedy thingie ensemble show about space exploration, fighting bad guys and the Lost City of the Ancients. Not every single show needs to have overt shipping. Not everything has to be everything. While love, sex and relationships is a part of being human, so are tons of other things.

Not everything has to be in every show, especially when they don't fit in with that show's tone and plot. Why have random ships just to have them? For one thing, if they're good, um... well... OK, so now we have two characters getting it on off-camera (or on) and that's that. If it's bad, everybody loses.

If it's plot driven, then it'll help advance the plot and the storyline in general, thus, becoming a natural part of the show's flow instead of just random interludes of "lovey dovey" stuff.


You know what else is superfluous and doesn't drive the plot at all?

Us knowing that John loves golf, Johnny Cash and ferris wheels.

Or knowing that Rodney is mortally allergic to citrus, or that he has a secret fascination with the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

But if you don't have the little details then you don't have the whole character.

And whose to say that this "love triangle" (I hate the term) isn't driving some plots. Would Ronon have come along on the off-world trip if he hadn't felt something? Would he have gotten Rodney/Ronon scenes if they both didn't have feelings for the same woman?

I don't see it as badly written. Different to what we're used to from Stargate, yes. But after 13 years of the same old same old, and the audience complaining that we're getting too many recycled story lines, something had to change.

FallenAngelII
September 21st, 2008, 09:17 AM
You know what else is superfluous and doesn't drive the plot at all?

Us knowing that John loves golf, Johnny Cash and ferris wheels.

Or knowing that Rodney is mortally allergic to citrus, or that he has a secret fascination with the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
It's called character development. It's called letting us know the characters better.


But if you don't have the little details then you don't have the whole character.
So what has this love triangle taught us about the characters involved that couldn't otherwise have been revealed? In fact, what has it taught us insofar at all?


And whose to say that this "love triangle" (I hate the term) isn't driving some plots. Would Ronon have come along on the off-world trip if he hadn't felt something? Would he have gotten Rodney/Ronon scenes if they both didn't have feelings for the same woman?
The love triangle itself didn't make Ronon go offworld. His possible feelings for Jennifer possibly did. And it didn't drive the plot, it just made him come along. Nobody knows what would've happened had Ronon not come along, it would've just been different.

It's not plot driving just because it causes one thing to happen which doesn't really have anything special to do with the ship.


I don't see it as badly written. Different to what we're used to from Stargate, yes. But after 13 years of the same old same old, and the audience complaining that we're getting too many recycled story lines, something had to change.
Different =/= Good

Just because something has changed doesn't make it good. For one thing, many fans apparently dislike it (as seen in this very thread). And again I reiterate: They couldn't even handle a two-person ship and now a love triangle?

And I see it as pretty random. What did Rodney and Jennifer go through together before he randomly confessed his love for her? Oh, right, they were stuck together in a hole with Sam during which they didn't really so much as fight for their very lives for the most part + play "Who would you rather do" and then he took her out for a drink.

And suddenly he's ready to declare his love for her. And what did Ronon go through with Jennifer? Pretty much nothing and then they kissed. There was no slow progression, there was just "Oh, and they're in love now".

Amalthea
September 21st, 2008, 10:02 AM
I don't think there's anything wrong with a little fluffy love triangle. They see one another 24/7, it's somewhat inevitable in a non-military situation since there isn't anything holding them back. Besides, we only know for sure what's going on in Ronon and McKay's heads, there's no conclusive evidence what Keller thinks/wants.

Ikaros
September 21st, 2008, 11:48 AM
Finally we get something that's not just years of "Will they or won't they". And what happens? Love triangle.

I'm glad they've finally stopped "Will they or won't they":ing us. But what we got in exchange was, in my opinion, even worse (unless Ronon's just pulling Rodney's leg, which, after the episode and previous hints, seem unlikely).


I didn't see any love triangle... Ronon was just having fun with Mckay imo.
And that "will they or won't they" thing it's just a little salt and peper. And to say the truth it's more into "shipers" minds than in the show heheheehehhe

jckfan55
September 21st, 2008, 12:04 PM
I think the show did just fine for its first 4 years without shipping main characters together. All TPTB had to do was write characters with good chemistry and the shippers took it from there. Gods know this PTB can't write good canon ship, just look at Sam/Jack and the lack of any sort of resolution.

Oh, so true. I never understood why you can't just have a great bond among the characters. They did it for several years and had loyal fans. The *team* was the thing. Even if you have attractive men & women that doesn't mean you have to go down the shippy road. And when TPTB have tried it it's been disastrous.

this Keller/Ronan/Rodney thing makes them ALL look bad, imho. :(

rarocks24
September 21st, 2008, 12:21 PM
The problem wasn't that there was shipping in Stargate in general and this episode in particular, the problem is that the writers don't do shipping very well. I guess they're just trying to get the practice in for Universe. ;)

FallenAngelII
September 21st, 2008, 12:32 PM
The problem wasn't that there was shipping in Stargate in general and this episode in particular, the problem is that the writers don't do shipping very well. I guess they're just trying to get the practice in for Universe. ;)
I guess the younger audience they're targeting is more susceptible to stuff like this than I (a 23 year old) am? Or something.

Damn you youngsters! *shakes fist*

P-90_177
September 21st, 2008, 01:18 PM
The problem wasn't that there was shipping in Stargate in general and this episode in particular, the problem is that the writers don't do shipping very well. I guess they're just trying to get the practice in for Universe. ;)

Exactly. Shipping is fine if done correctly. It's just that the writers of Stargate write their ships as if the characters are still in school. O'Neill and Carter was ok. I didn't mind it that much. It just gets a little irksome in some episodes. And the fact that if they really had such strong feelings for each other it would be far more likely that as responsible military officers, at least one of them would ask for reassignment minimum.....Also the Daniel/Vala ship I had no problem with either because Vala was set up from the get go as a rather infantile character.

It seems to be Atlantis that just handles them majorly badly.........Esspecially when there's just so many.......Shep/Weir, Shep/Teyla, Ronon/Teyla, Ronon/Keller, McKay/Keller, McKay/Weir..........it's just all way too much. And what's more is that the writers seem to try to accomodate every single one of the fans who like a particular ship so we're greeted with episodes like this that accomodate both the McKay/Keller AND Ronon/Keller shippers. The problem being is that you end up with a bit of a mess. Along with....well quite frankly sloppy writing. It is very easy to have a love triangle like this. It's also very possible to do it well....problem is that just as I said earlier, TPTB seem to have certain ideas for episodes....then they look online and look at sites like this to see what the fans want and they think "Oooh this group seems to like this ship" or "These guys seem to want to see this..." Problem is that the writers then try to please everyone and I bet also rush a certain aspect in the script because they didn't plan on it originally. It's quite possible that tracker started out as an episode focussing just on Ronon. B

bluealien
September 21st, 2008, 01:43 PM
I don't mind shipping so much if it's done well (and it can be done well in the hands of good writers.. look at Farscape), but the tpb have proven over and over that they havn't a clue what they are doing when it comes to shipping... they end up butchering the characters and Teyla is a perfect example.... I don't really recognize her since the Kanaan fiasco... I know Rachel was pregnant and they had to incorporate it into the show, but they couldnt have done a worse job IMO.... suddenly out of the blue the ptb say that Teyla has been seeing this guy for over a year or longer.. as even Franibeth got pulled into the rediculous plot of trying to convince us that Teyla has had a sparkle in her eye over 2 years ago for dear Kanaan.

But in fact the TPB had been playing around with both John/Teyla and some would say John/Weir and even getting to the stage that Teyla admitted having a crush on someone who was NOT an Athosian.. but then suddenly we are meant to believe that Teyla while crushing on someone from ATLANTIS was in fact secretley seeing Kanaan as well... :p

And instead of killing off the plot device they keep him around as the invisible baby sitter as Teyla couldnt possilby be seeen to go off world and leave her adorable little sprog with strangers!! I mean no one leaves their childern with helpers or friends these days.. !!

Then we have poor wittle Rodney falling in and out of love at the drop of a hat. But it's with Katie a minor character, so no one really minds and Rodney is allowed to get some lovin... relationships are a normal and natural part of life ;).. but then Rodney decides suddenly he is not in love with Katie and dumps the poor thing.... and in the process looking like a bit of a jerk !!

But you can't keep our Rodney down.. he's soon over Katie and even though he doesnt really display much affection for Keller at all he suddenly decides he's in love again.. bless !! and has been for a long time... hmmmm.. but yet he wasn't even bothered opening up her door when she was turning into a Baby Wraith Hive Ship.. I guess he was just trying to keep his feelings from Ronon... in case he got jealous or fell in love with Keller as well...nah !! that would never happen would it!!

And havn't I read somewhere that the ptp don't ever pair MAIN characters up... they only give fairly blatent hints .. like kissing while taken over by aliens or under the influence of a virus... and then if some fans begin to think that these characters have genuinally some real feelings for each other.. the ptb instantly deny there was EVER anything between them... its all in your silly shippy little minds....:weiranime34:


Maybe they felt guilty for messing half the fandom about with their shipper games for the past 10 years or so, and finally decided they would make some fans happy... but they still can't just go with one pairing.. hey that's no fun.. let's have a love triangle and forget everything we said in the past about not pairing MAIN characters.. it will be great because it's gonna be our two fave characters .. and eveyone will love it.. we will suddenly announce they are in love.... and Rodney does fall in love quite easily so it will be believable... and it will be even more exciting if we have 2 guys interested in the same character... so both shipping groups will be biting their nails and hoping it will their pairing that wins...

Well knowing the track record of the ptb when it comes to shipping I doubt there will be any winner... it will end as suddenly as it began... and they'll start all over again when it comes to SGU....:p

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 05:09 PM
It's called character development. It's called letting us know the characters better.

And that can be achieved in many ways. Relationships are another. That's my point.



So what has this love triangle taught us about the characters involved that couldn't otherwise have been revealed? In fact, what has it taught us insofar at all?

It's taught us much about Rodney's character. Take a look at his behaviour with Carter (overbearing and abnoxious) and even with Katie (the overly sweet, overly nice behaviour) and compare that to his behaviour with Jennifer which more of the Rodney to which we've grown accustomed, but with an actual brain to mouth filter that cares what makes it through.

I rather thinks it makes for a nice contrast and insight into his character. You may disagree.



The love triangle itself didn't make Ronon go offworld. His possible feelings for Jennifer possibly did. And it didn't drive the plot, it just made him come along. Nobody knows what would've happened had Ronon not come along, it would've just been different.

Well of course it would have been different. But anything could have been different on the show if this hadn't happened or that had happened instead.

The point is that Ronon did go most probably because of his feelings for Jennifer. It's also possible that he went because he knew Rodney was going. Thus the love triangle driving the plot of the two of them together in the woods in pursuit of Jennifer and her kidnapper.



Different =/= Good

Different doesn't equal bad all the time either. Yet that is the mentality you seem to be going with most often while admonishing me for trying to point out that change is not only necessary, but sometimes can be beneficial.



Just because something has changed doesn't make it good. For one thing, many fans apparently dislike it (as seen in this very thread).

There are maybe 20-30 different people posting in this thread out of the tens of thousands of members on GW out of the millions that watch the show. That's hardly many.



And again I reiterate: They couldn't even handle a two-person ship and now a love triangle?

This seems to be a recurring theme amongst the people who aren't fans of "shipping" on SGA.

"I don't mind ships so long as they're done well."

Well what does, "done well" entail? And do you realize that that is highly subjective and up to individual interpretation? What I like is evidently not something you like, but it could be what many others do, and vice versa.

Feel free to express your opinion, but please don't be so presumptuous as to claim that your opinion is shared by many fans and that the "shipping" sucks and so should be discarded and forgotten.



And I see it as pretty random. What did Rodney and Jennifer go through together before he randomly confessed his love for her? Oh, right, they were stuck together in a hole with Sam during which they didn't really so much as fight for their very lives for the most part + play "Who would you rather do" and then he took her out for a drink.

And suddenly he's ready to declare his love for her. And what did Ronon go through with Jennifer? Pretty much nothing and then they kissed. There was no slow progression, there was just "Oh, and they're in love now".

I find it quite amusing that you are suggesting the "shipping" in this show be left up to the wild imaginations of shippers everywhere, yet now you claim to want everything about the relationship to be shown on screen and in neon lights.

Rac80
September 21st, 2008, 05:18 PM
I don't think the triangle exists anywhere but in Mckay's mind! but that is simply IMHO. :D

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 05:21 PM
I don't think the triangle exists anywhere but in Mckay's mind! but that is simply IMHO. :D

Then it is my duty to inform you that in my humble opinion your speculation is absurd ;)

huntress
September 21st, 2008, 05:21 PM
I can honestly live without a love triangle. The last one I had to endure was even a love square (Lee-Dee-Kara-Anders) and it left a very foul taste in my mouth.

Reiko
September 21st, 2008, 05:25 PM
I think we're just expected to take every bit of crap they decide to dish out at us.

And for some fans, it's true. :(

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 05:28 PM
Hey!

Reiko
September 21st, 2008, 05:32 PM
Hey!

I'm not talking about you. ;) You have opinions on things and offer reasonable justification for them. :) You don't mind saying when you don't like something the writers do, and you don't do it it in a way that will offend me *g*.

But some others take what tptb makes blindly, no matter how far off the mark it is to other people. Simply put, it's the "tptb can do no wrong" syndrome. Not mentioning names. But I do know people. ;)

Jackie
September 21st, 2008, 07:31 PM
Generally relationships are a part of character development. There are many types of relationships and the characters should be involved in different aspects. A well rounded character can related to different people differently.

The problem with tptb is the lack of relationship outside of teenage fantasy ships. Yes, McKay having a crush and sam was amusing...for about 5 minutes.

The quality of relationships in the show are mundane eye rolling events. Of course tptb would try to hint at a love triangle with mckay/keller. A normal healthy relationship would be too boring to write about for these guys.

No one has a healthy loving relationship under the control of tptb's pen.

Let's looks at the past trends:

SG-1:

Sam/Martouf...he died.
Sam/Pete...stalker boy
Sam/Sir...regulations
Daniel/Sha're...kidnapped as a host and killed
Daniel/Vala...fight, fight, fight worse than a little old couple.
Jack/CIA woman...plot device.
Jack/Daniel....space monkey anyone

SGA:
Sheppard/Weir...school teacher/bad boy
McKay/Brown....tptb got bored becuase it seemed too normal. Bye, bye.
Sheppard/Teyla...only noticed her after she had a kid by another man
Teyla/Baby's father....plot device.
McKay/Sheppard...revised space money
Ronon/Keller...not sure if he even likes her to begin with.
McKay/Keller...attempt to get fans to like new character.
Beckett/Cadman...dropped like a hot potato.

It's all remnant of a teenage school drama.:o

Shan Bruce Lee
September 21st, 2008, 08:24 PM
I mean, Atlantis has dipped into the soapy well before, but this is just too much.

After almost 5 years and almost 5 seasons, this is what we get? The writers finally man up enough to make some shipping canonical instead of just being "wink wink, nudge, nudge" like with the whole Sam & Jack thing which drove all sides nuts.

Finally we get something that's not just years of "Will they or won't they". And what happens? Love triangle.

I'm glad they've finally stopped "Will they or won't they":ing us. But what we got in exchange was, in my opinion, even worse (unless Ronon's just pulling Rodney's leg, which, after the episode and previous hints, seem unlikely).

I mean, horrible ship and buildup to the ship and whatnot aside (subjective opinion), schmaltzy and frankly unnecessary random shipping aside as well, this one takes the cake. An honest-to-Wii love triangle... that's just... no.

Please make it stop, writers!

It sounds like you're complaining about the writers giving you exactly what you wanted.

Shan Bruce Lee
September 21st, 2008, 08:33 PM
Sam/Martouf...he died.
Daniel/Sha're...kidnapped as a host and killed

Neither had anything to do with the relationships


Jack/Daniel....space monkey anyone
Sheppard/Weir...school teacher/bad boy
McKay/Sheppard...revised space money

No idea where you got any of those from.


Ronon/Keller...not sure if he even likes her to begin with.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't.


McKay/Keller...attempt to get fans to like new character.

That's just baseless.

Shan Bruce Lee
September 21st, 2008, 08:35 PM
I don't think the triangle exists anywhere but in Mckay's mind! but that is simply IMHO. :D

I agree with this and I think that's why Ronon took advantage of it to mess with Rodney at the end of the episode.

Sweetwaterspice
September 21st, 2008, 08:39 PM
YAAAY! Finally a forum where I can express my true feelings and not feel scolded! I've been enjoying everyone's posts :)

This "romance" and it's in quotes because it's just not believable from any end and painful to watch. I feel like the writers are pushing these Keller pairings far too hard and they're not working! Keller/McKay have little chemistry and Keller/Ronon forced chemistry...just plain...eeeww. I do agree with many of you who said the writers are trying to please way too many of the fans.

I love Ronon and I just can't see how he's "fallen/falling" for Keller. I know she's patched him up several times but this has gone from zero to 80 in a matter of a few episodes...good grief! It seems the writers are set on making Ronon fall for the same cookie-cutter paperdoll = Melena and now Keller. I still have MAJOR problems with that Quarantine episode. It was just plain odd how Ronon/Keller came about.

But like someone else pointed out, not everything has to be shown in the episodes.

I believe in the end, this Triangle will just fizzle. Keller won't pick either one of them to spare the other.

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 09:02 PM
YAAAY! Finally a forum where I can express my true feelings and not feel scolded! I've been enjoying everyone's posts :)

Stick around long enough and I'm pretty sure the warm fuzzy feelings will dissipate quickly.



This "romance" and it's in quotes because it's just not believable from any end and painful to watch. I feel like the writers are pushing these Keller pairings far too hard and they're not working! Keller/McKay have little chemistry and Keller/Ronon forced chemistry...just plain...eeeww. I do agree with many of you who said the writers are trying to please way too many of the fans.

I honestly don't see it that way and I find Keller/McKay to be very believable in that I can imagine two people with their personalities falling in love. Chemistry thing aside (I do think Staite and Hewlett have chemistry and play off of each other very well in scenes), their writing and portrayal is what lends credence to the notion that a relationship between the two of them is believable.

The Shrine, regardless of what people thought of Keller as a doctor and her ethics (let's not get into that here), especially showed the depth of her feelings for him beyond just those of patient/doctor. At the very least it showed that she considers him a great and important friend. Whom she understands very well I may add.

I won't comment on Ronon/Keller.



I love Ronon and I just can't see how he's "fallen/falling" for Keller. I know she's patched him up several times but this has gone from zero to 80 in a matter of a few episodes...good grief! It seems the writers are set on making Ronon fall for the same cookie-cutter paperdoll = Melena and now Keller. I still have MAJOR problems with that Quarantine episode. It was just plain odd how Ronon/Keller came about.

But like someone else pointed out, not everything has to be shown in the episodes.

As much as I may not support that particular ship, it's not hard to envision how it may have come about. Not to belittle Jennifer, but I can see Ronon's first impression of her as being someone similar to his deceased fiancee. That alone would have attracted her to him.

People do have types. As much as some would like to deny it, it's true and Ronon's may very well be the "blond Florence Nightingale" type. Then his interest may have been piqued and sustained by the fact that he began to see her as more courageous and brave than he'd originally thought. Thus their subsequent sparring lessons.

Ronon doesn't strike me as the type to put up with novice fighters just for fun.



I believe in the end, this Triangle will just fizzle. Keller won't pick either one of them to spare the other.

I certainly hope not. If that happens, all it will do is affirm all the naysayers' comments that TPTB only did this for ratings or for controversy or some reason other than character development.

I sincerely hope that this all amounts to more than that.

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 09:08 PM
Generally relationships are a part of character development. There are many types of relationships and the characters should be involved in different aspects. A well rounded character can related to different people differently.

The problem with tptb is the lack of relationship outside of teenage fantasy ships. Yes, McKay having a crush and sam was amusing...for about 5 minutes.

The quality of relationships in the show are mundane eye rolling events. Of course tptb would try to hint at a love triangle with mckay/keller. A normal healthy relationship would be too boring to write about for these guys.

No one has a healthy loving relationship under the control of tptb's pen.

If I wanted a" normal healthy loving relationship" I'd walk down the street, or go watch my grandparents, or buy a Hallmark card.

This is sci-fi and it's a drama with a good dose of comedy. The sci-fi part alone should give you a hint as to how "not normal" this show should be.

And what is normal anyway? Or healthy for that matter?

It seems that people on this thread are being very trigger happy with all these subjective terms and opinions-stated-as-fact, when in reality the ratings and online downloads are speaking for themselves. Oh and the Emmy and Gemini nominations (hello Jewel Staite).

Obviously TPTB are doing something right and obviously there is an audience willing to watch it.



It's all remnant of a teenage school drama.:o

What high school did you go to?

Shan Bruce Lee
September 21st, 2008, 09:09 PM
I sincerely hope that this all amounts to more than that.

I think they're just slowly leading the two characters (Rodney/Keller) to where they were (or relatively close) in 'The Last Man'

Pandora's_Box
September 21st, 2008, 09:14 PM
I think they're just slowly leading the two characters (Rodney/Keller) to where they were (or relatively close) in 'The Last Man'

I think so too based on what we've seen so far and what's been said by the actors and the show runners.

It seems a natural progression and evolution for the two characters and their relationship.

Plus, Rodney is just so earnest about the whole thing and really, really seems to care. He confronted Ronon of all people about it and refused to back down, so that has to say something.

Although, I'm beginning to wonder about everyone being so surprised by that action. We've never really seen Rodney to be too much of a pushover or really all that much of a wimp either, so why should we not have expected him to confront the man he believed to be standing between him and his Lady Love?

Granted his courtship of Katie left much to be desired, but he's a 40 year old man who's surely had some dates and relationships in his time. He can't think that little of himself in that department. Can he?

Shan Bruce Lee
September 21st, 2008, 09:20 PM
Granted his courtship of Katie left much to be desired, but he's a 40 year old man who's surely had some dates and relationships in his time. He can't think that little of himself in that department. Can he?

When he thinks he has to compete with Ronon, yeah he's probably a little insecure.

Sweetwaterspice
September 23rd, 2008, 01:26 AM
Granted his courtship of Katie left much to be desired, but he's a 40 year old man who's surely had some dates and relationships in his time. He can't think that little of himself in that department. Can he?

Rodney has always been quite insecure about any close relationship he's had. He's had relationship issues with several people on the show: his sister, Carson, Katie, Sam just to name a few. Remember Quarantine when he went to ask Katie to marry him and just fell apart? He likes to be in control and if he feels he isn't then his insecurities begin to pop-up. In the past I thought of him as emotionally defiant.

It was refreshing to see him confront Ronon about his intentions for Keller. I think he's learned alot from his recent experiences (life being too short to fool around) and probably feels it's time he took the bull by the horns.

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 02:22 AM
It sounds like you're complaining about the writers giving you exactly what you wanted.
I'm sorry, what leaps in logic did you have to make to arrive at that conclusion?


And that can be achieved in many ways. Relationships are another. That's my point.

It's taught us much about Rodney's character. Take a look at his behaviour with Carter (overbearing and abnoxious) and even with Katie (the overly sweet, overly nice behaviour) and compare that to his behaviour with Jennifer which more of the Rodney to which we've grown accustomed, but with an actual brain to mouth filter that cares what makes it through.
Funny, you must be watching some alternate version of Atlantis because I haven't seen any of that. Name the episode where Rodney and Jennifer have some weird moment where he puts a filter on and "cares what makes it through".



Well of course it would have been different. But anything could have been different on the show if this hadn't happened or that had happened instead.

The point is that Ronon did go most probably because of his feelings for Jennifer. It's also possible that he went because he knew Rodney was going. Thus the love triangle driving the plot of the two of them together in the woods in pursuit of Jennifer and her kidnapper.
Random speculation followed by more random speculation and it didn't drive the plot forward. It was merely part of the plot. The ship itself did not make the plot go in random directions it would never have possibly gone without the ship.


Different doesn't equal bad all the time either. Yet that is the mentality you seem to be going with most often while admonishing me for trying to point out that change is not only necessary, but sometimes can be beneficial.
I have never claimed that different is bad. Just because I dislike most of the changes done recently doesn't mean I dislike change.

However, you was speaking as if different = good.


There are maybe 20-30 different people posting in this thread out of the tens of thousands of members on GW out of the millions that watch the show. That's hardly many.
And the inane logic rears its ugly head again. Yes, the fans on GateWorld cannot possibly be representative of the viewer base!

Especially not if the fans are negative. I mean, if 40 fans say "I loved the episode" vs. 25 who say "I hated it!", then we can safely say that "90% of viewers probably loved the episode!" because, well, the logic is in there somewhere.

Yes, we fans here on GateWorld couldn't possibly have something in common with the average viewer! If 90% of GateWorld hated the episode, well, we're longtime fans who nitpick and whatever, so 75% of the viewer base probably loved the episode!

I bet 90% of all viewers love the new love triangle with 5% indifferent and only 5% dissenting. How? Random speculation and inane logic.


This seems to be a recurring theme amongst the people who aren't fans of "shipping" on SGA.

"I don't mind ships so long as they're done well."

Well what does, "done well" entail? And do you realize that that is highly subjective and up to individual interpretation? What I like is evidently not something you like, but it could be what many others do, and vice versa.,
I'm sorry, I'm Dictator of the World since when? You're free to like it. Have I criticized you for liking it? Have I said "Well, it's highly subjective, so why even talk about liking it?!"? You can like it, I dislike it.

It's subjective, yes. But it's my opinion. And you can disagree with it, but don't bring out the "It's subjective!"-card as if it disqualified me or anyone else from discussing him.


Feel free to express your opinion, but please don't be so presumptuous as to claim that your opinion is shared by many fans and that the "shipping" sucks and so should be discarded and forgotten.
My opinion is shared by many. Many is a subjective word. And many here on GateWorld apparently share my opinion. And I'm sorry, were you here during the 8 years of S&J? People from all over hated it.

It left us with a bad aftertaste and trepidation whenever the PtB ship. In fact, were you here during the first 3 years of Atlantis? Random BS shipping abound which usually lead to nothing.


I find it quite amusing that you are suggesting the "shipping" in this show be left up to the wild imaginations of shippers everywhere, yet now you claim to want everything about the relationship to be shown on screen and in neon lights.
This is this and that is that. Strawmanning is bad!

This triangle was pretty random since it had no buildup. (Earlier shipping attempts had building... well, except for McBrown and we all saw how well that went). Apparently, it's progressed to such a point where Rodney of all people is prepared to declare his undying love for Jennifer.

Yet... nothing was shown to indicate the buildup of such feelings in "Sanctuary" except for... um... a drink?

While I'd prefer to have no blatant shipping shoved down my throat at all by a PtB with a history of horrific shipping, I'd also like to, if they're gonna shove it down my throat anyway, see a more logical approach instead of just random instances of BS.

Shan Bruce Lee
September 23rd, 2008, 04:44 AM
I'm sorry, what leaps in logic did you have to make to arrive at that conclusion?

If I'd have had to make a "leap in logic" to come to the conclusion this thread wouldn't exist.

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 05:09 AM
If I'd have had to make a "leap in logic" to come to the conclusion this thread wouldn't exist.
Again your logic eludes me.

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 07:10 AM
Funny, you must be watching some alternate version of Atlantis because I haven't seen any of that. Name the episode where Rodney and Jennifer have some weird moment where he puts a filter on and "cares what makes it through".

Compare his interactions with Carter (in which he is abnoxious^100 bordering on chauvanistic) to his interactions with Keller. Case in point. That's why I deem these relationships of his (with Carter, Katie, and Keller) to be interesting and revealing and worth the time for the writers to write them and for us to watch them.



Random speculation followed by more random speculation and it didn't drive the plot forward. It was merely part of the plot. The ship itself did not make the plot go in random directions it would never have possibly gone without the ship.

Would Rodney have gone on the mission on his day off if he hadn't been interested in Keller? If he didn't have feelings than he wouldn't have gone and we wouldn't have had the confrontation at the end. Who knows what else may happen between these two characters in future episodes as a result of that scene and episode?

Maybe that was enough for Ronon to begin to see Rodney in a different light. Maybe we'll see some change in their relationship (good or bad). Regardless, something will happen and I'm interested in seeing what that is.



And the inane logic rears its ugly head again. Yes, the fans on GateWorld cannot possibly be representative of the viewer base!

Especially not if the fans are negative. I mean, if 40 fans say "I loved the episode" vs. 25 who say "I hated it!", then we can safely say that "90% of viewers probably loved the episode!" because, well, the logic is in there somewhere.

Yes, we fans here on GateWorld couldn't possibly have something in common with the average viewer! If 90% of GateWorld hated the episode, well, we're longtime fans who nitpick and whatever, so 75% of the viewer base probably loved the episode!

I've never claimed that any group (lovers or haters) on GW is representative of the SGA fanbase. Because, truth of the matter is, we're not. There is a stark difference between what we (as, some would say, hardcore fans) look for in the show and what the average, casual viewer looks for in the show.

I'm merely saying that the ratings and the online downloads speak for themselves. And they're not saying that the majority of viewers hate the direction of the show.



I bet 90% of all viewers love the new love triangle with 5% indifferent and only 5% dissenting. How? Random speculation and inane logic.

Did I say that? Honestly, did I even begin to say that?

I am saying that while you may not like it and you may know hundreds of people who may not like it, there are millions of viewers out there that do. So it doesn't matter what the people of GW say about it or if 90% of GW posters hate it or love it, the ratings and downloads speak for the millions out there who don't post on GW and have a hell of a lot more say than us as to whether something is liked or not.



I'm sorry, I'm Dictator of the World since when? You're free to like it. Have I criticized you for liking it? Have I said "Well, it's highly subjective, so why even talk about liking it?!"? You can like it, I dislike it.

It's subjective, yes. But it's my opinion. And you can disagree with it, but don't bring out the "It's subjective!"-card as if it disqualified me or anyone else from discussing him.

Oh, chill out.

I was simply making the point that continuously berating TPTB for writing 'ships but writing them badly, and constantly saying, "Please PTB! Please stop the insanity!" (obviously I'm paraphrasing) is only done with the consideration of your own views and not those of the millions of others who seem to like it.

And as those millions of others seem to keep watching it, and I assume they don't do so out of a willingness to endure torturous viewing every week, it can't really be all that bad or painful or that insane. And for that matter, it can't have been done all that badly.

I'm not telling, asking, or demanding for you to stop stating your opinion. I'm only pointing out that what you're constantly harping on for being horrible and the harbinger of the apocalypse is something that, for all intents and purposes, is not hurting the show at all. At least not as we've seen so far.



My opinion is shared by many. Many is a subjective word.

Granted.



And many here on GateWorld apparently share my opinion. And I'm sorry, were you here during the 8 years of S&J? People from all over hated it.

It left us with a bad aftertaste and trepidation whenever the PtB ship. In fact, were you here during the first 3 years of Atlantis? Random BS shipping abound which usually lead to nothing.

Ooooooh! I wasn't posting then (the horror!) does that make me an incosequential viewer? Does that exclude me from the priviledged club of people allowed to talk about all things SGA, including those precious 3 seasons when I wasn't posting?

Most "shipping" (as you call it) leads to nothing. I prefer not to call those moments "shipping" so much as friendship and relationship building or, at the very extreme, a way for TPTB to test the waters.

And what's so very wrong with that? Why shouldn't there be at least a mocidum of genuine human interactions that extend beyond the platonic? Is that really so bad and horrible and damaging to the poor, innocent minds of the PG audience? Although, I don't know how PG a show can be when it's shown at 10 pm and has all the suggestively violent situations that this show has, but I digress.



This triangle was pretty random since it had no buildup. (Earlier shipping attempts had building... well, except for McBrown and we all saw how well that went). Apparently, it's progressed to such a point where Rodney of all people is prepared to declare his undying love for Jennifer.

Oh, the horror! That a character can love another character so completely! Love? How atrocious, no?

"Rodney of all people"? What does that even mean?

Give the man a break. He's been fighting the Wraith in another galaxy for four years. He's faced his own mortality probably more times than he can count (and he can count pretty high) and now he's realized that life is short and he wants a good woman and some love in his life. Yes, even super genius astrophysicists need love.



While I'd prefer to have no blatant shipping shoved down my throat at all by a PtB with a history of horrific shipping, I'd also like to, if they're gonna shove it down my throat anyway, see a more logical approach instead of just random instances of BS.

All right fine.

But think of it this way. You seem (and most others against this crazy "shipping" idea) seem to be against the blatantly overt shipping. That's fine. Maybe TPTB are trying to appease the more "SF only" fans while also bringing in the subtly lovey-dovey aspects.

Shippers will ship and will fill in the missing blanks of the realtionship and those that wish to ignore it can. Because "shipping" is really not that big of a part of the show, despite claims by some fans to the contrary.

angela23
September 23rd, 2008, 08:43 AM
Rodney should not have a Love-Relationship. It doesn't go with his Character. This is a bad Idea. Rodney and Keller don't even have any onscreen Chemistry between them, they just act desperate. And if Rodney all of a sudden becomes Mr Nice Guy and romances Keller, that would be awfull. He is supp. to have an attitude and think everybody but him is stupid, that is what makes him fun to watch, if he changes he would not be Mc Kay anymore. I don't think I want to watch Brain Storm. It is supp. to be Keller and Mc Kay. I think they need to leave the Romance stuff alone. Especially Ronon, Keller and Rodney. That is too boring. Maybe Sheppard and Jill or Teyla and Sheppard, now that would be something.

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 08:50 AM
Compare his interactions with Carter (in which he is abnoxious^100 bordering on chauvanistic) to his interactions with Keller. Case in point. That's why I deem these relationships of his (with Carter, Katie, and Keller) to be interesting and revealing and worth the time for the writers to write them and for us to watch them.
Have you been paying attention to the show for the past, you know, 5 years? Rodney's antics when interacting with Sam are quite unique. Compare them to how he acts with any other love interest, not just Jennifer, and you'll see it's like night and day.

And, again I ask, what has Rodney done with Jennifer insofar that's so significant and important? No, really, they've barely had any one-on-one interaction or even interaction at all other than "OMG! Hurt people! Help!" interaction.


Would Rodney have gone on the mission on his day off if he hadn't been interested in Keller? If he didn't have feelings than he wouldn't have gone and we wouldn't have had the confrontation at the end. Who knows what else may happen between these two characters in future episodes as a result of that scene and episode?
Rodney seemed quite prepared to just run. He was all "Let's go back to the gate and dial for backup!", but Ronon was the one who pushed him on, not Jennifer. Ronon was the one who was all "If we don't go now, we might never be able to catch up.", which was why Rodney decided to carry on with it.

And you know what, I think Rodney would be prepared to do what he did for anyone he knew, not just people he's in love with. After all, he's done more for people he only knows and isn't in love with (or isn't family).


Maybe that was enough for Ronon to begin to see Rodney in a different light. Maybe we'll see some change in their relationship (good or bad). Regardless, something will happen and I'm interested in seeing what that is.
Read above.


I've never claimed that any group (lovers or haters) on GW is representative of the SGA fanbase. Because, truth of the matter is, we're not. There is a stark difference between what we (as, some would say, hardcore fans) look for in the show and what the average, casual viewer looks for in the show.
And I factor that in when I judge the show. Still, quite a few people dislike blatantly random and/or badly written shipping.


I'm merely saying that the ratings and the online downloads speak for themselves. And they're not saying that the majority of viewers hate the direction of the show.
So because the show isn't enjoying ratings down the toilet, all viewers who watch the show must love it and everything about it?

Casual or hardcore, very few viewers will stop watching a show just because of a few or even many flaws as long as they still enjoy the show. That said, it doesn't mean that they aren't constantly bothered by it either.

Also, just because X amounts of millions of viewers watch the show doesn't mean X amounts of more viewers wouldn't watch it if it were better written.

So, no, your numbers mean nothing in this conversation.


I am saying that while you may not like it and you may know hundreds of people who may not like it, there are millions of viewers out there that do. So it doesn't matter what the people of GW say about it or if 90% of GW posters hate it or love it, the ratings and downloads speak for the millions out there who don't post on GW and have a hell of a lot more say than us as to whether something is liked or not.
Just because they watch the show does not mean they enjoy the love triangle, or shipping or even Jennifer's presence on Atlantis. Just because they have yet to abandon the show does not mean they love everything about it.

This is some of the most inane logic I've ever seen. Seriously, where is this coming from?! Oh, the show enjoys millions of viewers. Obviously, all or at least a majority or many of them must either love, like or at least not dislike this specific aspect of the show we're currently discussing.


I was simply making the point that continuously berating TPTB for writing 'ships but writing them badly, and constantly saying, "Please PTB! Please stop the insanity!" (obviously I'm paraphrasing) is only done with the consideration of your own views and not those of the millions of others who seem to like it.
Why not? Why should I not? It's my opinion. And it's not like we're seeing threads about this weekly, monthly or even anually. We see it whenever it's called for, like, say, now, when the PtB not only decided to have Rodney randomly declare his undying love for Jennifer two episodes ago but also have him randomly thrown into a love triangle.


And as those millions of others seem to keep watching it, and I assume they don't do so out of a willingness to endure torturous viewing every week, it can't really be all that bad or painful or that insane. And for that matter, it can't have been done all that badly.
Blah, blah, inane logic rules.


I'm not telling, asking, or demanding for you to stop stating your opinion. I'm only pointing out that what you're constantly harping on for being horrible and the harbinger of the apocalypse is something that, for all intents and purposes, is not hurting the show at all. At least not as we've seen so far.
The inane logic lives strong within you. How can you say that it's not hurting the show at all? Seriously? How can you even say that it's not hurting the show significantly? Where are your numbers to show that no viewers or at least not a significant amount of viewers have decided to drop the show after X or Y happened? Where is your proof? Be it actual proof or circumstantial such.


Ooooooh! I wasn't posting then (the horror!) does that make me an incosequential viewer? Does that exclude me from the priviledged club of people allowed to talk about all things SGA, including those precious 3 seasons when I wasn't posting?
Umm... are you actually reading my post as a coherent and well-structured mini-essay or just plucking out random sentence to "refute"?

The question is not whether or not you were posting back then and, thus, have a "privilige", the question is whether or not you were even around. And if you were, how could you possibly sit there and claim my views are not shared by many, be it viewers or just here on GateWorld as if you had been around, you would've seen it for yourself firsthand.


Most "shipping" (as you call it) leads to nothing. I prefer not to call those moments "shipping" so much as friendship and relationship building or, at the very extreme, a way for TPTB to test the waters.
I was speaking of S&J and nothing else. S&J, that is all.


And what's so very wrong with that? Why shouldn't there be at least a mocidum of genuine human interactions that extend beyond the platonic? Is that really so bad and horrible and damaging to the poor, innocent minds of the PG audience? Although, I don't know how PG a show can be when it's shown at 10 pm and has all the suggestively violent situations that this show has, but I digress.
What part of "I do not mind shipping as long as it's well written" is too Canadian French pour toi pour apprender?

Shipping is not bad... as it's well written. Random and badly written shipping is bad. The PtB has a decade long record of badly written ships, and that's when only two people are involved. This is a love triangle. With the PtB's record, this has disaster written all over it.

This is what I've been saying from the start, this what I've had to repeat because you seem incapable of grasping this. At first you were only arguing that I'm wrong in that it's badly written. For some reason, you seem to have forgotten about the fact that I've, many times, said that shipping is fine as long as it's well written and the reason why I'm against it in this case is because of the PtB's track record and because it's a love triangle.

I've also expressed the opinion that I'd prefer to not have it at all but that's neither here nor there if you'd only bothered to read the many posts in which I say (and let me reiterate for the jillionth time) that I do not mind it as long as it's well written.


Oh, the horror! That a character can love another character so completely! Love? How atrocious, no?
Are we even speaking the same language (you know, English, which happens to be my third language) or are you just blatantly trolling now?

The point of that paragraph was that Rodney has somehow come to a point where he's prepared to declare his love for Jennifer. Now I don't know how old you are or how many times you have been truly in love but at 40-something, Rodney isn't a teenager who'll declare his love simply out of sexual attraction.

When Rodney says he loves someone, it most probably means that it's progressed to a very serious state.

And this progression has apparently been all off-screen as I certainly haven't seen any of it.

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 08:50 AM
(I exceeded the 12000 character count)

"Rodney of all people"? What does that even mean?
Rodney... 40... man of science... man of a lot of thinking. Rodney, man of logic, man of "I won't even go grocery shopping without pre-planning".

This is Meredith Rodney McCay. Have you met him? Can you imagine him declaring his love for someone out of the blue without actually being truly in love with them?

As far as we know, Jennifer and Rodney aren't even dating. Because we haven't seen it. We can speculate as much as we want, but from what we've seen and even heard (as in throwaway comments and stuff), Rodney and Jennifer aren't actually dating.

Heck, John seemed quite surprised that Rodney would volunteer to go help Jennifer. I mean, do you think they'd had that conversation if John had known Rodney was dating Jennifer? Because then it wouldn't really be a surprise.

But somehow Rodney's managed to fall in love with Jennifer despite them not dating (as far as anyone knows). That or he was lying or blowing his attraction out of proportion due to desperation or something back in the "Sanctuary".

Either way, it's not a well-written or fleshed out ship. Here we have the two. They meet. They fall down a hole (with another person). They talk a bit. They have a drink. Fast forward 6 months and one party is apparently in love with the other.

Oh yeah, well written all right.


Give the man a break. He's been fighting the Wraith in another galaxy for four years. He's faced his own mortality probably more times than he can count (and he can count pretty high) and now he's realized that life is short and he wants a good woman and some love in his life. Yes, even super genius astrophysicists need love.
... ...
You don't declare your love to someone out of the blue at the age of 40 if you're not actually in love. That or Rodney is a major jerk, doing it to get some tail. You don't just throw "I love you!" out without meaning it, especially not at the age of 40... unless, of course, you're a jerk.

Living for 4 years in the Pegasus galaxy does not change that.


But think of it this way. You seem (and most others against this crazy "shipping" idea) seem to be against the blatantly overt shipping. That's fine. Maybe TPTB are trying to appease the more "SF only" fans while also bringing in the subtly lovey-dovey aspects.
Subtle?! Sutble?! You call that subtle?!

Rodney blatantly declaring his love for Jennifer and John and Rodney having that entire conversation about Rodney volunteering to go off-world with Jennifer on his day off. There is nothing subtle about this. I'd like the name of this imaginary version of "Stargate Atlantis" you must be watching.

Integrabyte
September 23rd, 2008, 09:34 AM
***munching popcorn...encore...encore :P ***

fumblesmcstupid
September 23rd, 2008, 10:22 AM
:lol:

Linda06
September 23rd, 2008, 10:26 AM
I um........Still haven't watched it :o

fumblesmcstupid
September 23rd, 2008, 10:29 AM
I read the transcripts! Still glad I didn't watch. :)

Linda06
September 23rd, 2008, 10:32 AM
I have spies everywhere telling me things about certain eps :samanime27:

fumblesmcstupid
September 23rd, 2008, 10:33 AM
me too! :)

As for the love triangle

If Keller and Ronon get together...Rodney gets hurt!

Keller and Rodney get together....Ronon gets hurt!

Triangle = Great big mess!

I really hate seeing my favorite characters hearts get broken.

Oh yes I do know they are character's and life sucks blah blah blah......I watch Atlantis to get away from reality.......yes characters can be in love.....with one person at a time.

This isn't an episode of RED SHOE DIARIES and the story is "I love two men" stuff (yeah fanfic)

Give me explosions and Wraith and puddlejumpers and Stargates and all the cool stuff I watch Atlantis for and leave the Triangles for the WC.

jelgate
September 23rd, 2008, 10:42 AM
I have spies everywhere telling me things about certain eps :samanime27:

I'm still waiting for that payment you promisied me

Linda06
September 23rd, 2008, 10:45 AM
I'm still waiting for that payment you promisied me

:eek: um.....heh.......*shifts eyes side to side* um oh look what's that....*runs away*

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 12:45 PM
FAII, you seem to be functioning under the impression that everything I say is a deliberate attack against you and your opinions. It's really not. You have yours and you're welcome to them. You like expressing them. That's more than fine as well. I have no problem with debate or discussion even when it becomes more impassioned than the subject matter would typically dictate. If someone feels passionately enough about something, than they should express that. As you've done.

But you know what? There are significantly better ways of doing it than the method you employed in your previous post. The post which I won't even bother quoting as it doesn't deserve the distinction.

You don't like the triangle (clearly) and want to express that (over and over and over...and over) that's fine. All the more power to you. As much as I may disagree eith you on whether love triangles and relationships in general belong on SGA I can't argue on the fact that you just don't like them.

Oh wait.....don't let me forget....unless they're done well.

You want to continually berate me for my opinion and attempt to cheapen my reasons for liking it and reasons for keeping it on the show by claiming them to be born of inane logic, that's your perogative. I, however, will have no further part in this farce of a discussion you seem hell bent on maintaining.

I really did want to know what people meant by, "doing it well" as I'm curious as to other peoples' reasoning on this. Yours I won't ask, because as you seem intent on stating and bolding over and over....and over, that you think the relationship and Rodney's proclaimed love to be BS. Yippe for you. Try to wrap your head around the "inane" idea that not everyone thinks the same way and that their logic may very well be just as applicable as your own.

You may not see how a man like Rodney McKay could fall in love so quickly, but I do and evidently I'm not alone. You wouldn't mind shipping, "so long as it's well written" yet you don't want the show to turn into a romance. I'm sorry to tell you, but you can't really have a well-written romance without devoting significantly more time to it's development. And that would reduce the amount of time devoted to actual SF material on the show.

So TPTB decided to leave the inbetween stuff to people willing to come up with the filler in their minds thinking that it would be so hard to see why McKay would fall in love with Keller. You want to pretend to misunderstand my posts, that's fine and your business, but I won't bother spelling it out for you. Even men as practical and logical as Rodney can fall in love fast, especially when they've changed as much as he has over the course of the past 4 years. You may not have noticed, but he isn't exactly the same person he was when we were first introduced to him.

Oh, and your comment about how unique and different his interactions with Carter were? That was my point. Thanks for reiterating it.

So if anyone has any other reasons for thinking the 'shipping wasn't done well, I'd be interested in hearing it. If however, this thread has simply turned into a forum for FAII to sit atop his soapbox and dictate the proper way to think of 'shipping and love triangles, then I bid this thread au'revoir.

Linda06
September 23rd, 2008, 01:01 PM
Um i can't comment on the shipping in tracker because um......I haven't watched it yet :o So i couldn't tell you if it's done well or badly...I reallt should get round to watching it i guess :S

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 01:18 PM
Um i can't comment on the shipping in tracker because um......I haven't watched it yet :o So i couldn't tell you if it's done well or badly...I reallt should get round to watching it i guess :S

It's really not that bad or that blatant. One scene in the beginning, one scene at the end. The rest is Rodney and Ronon tracking Jen and her captor through the woods.

Eh, if 'shipping isn't generally you're thing I can see how it may bug, but it's hardly indicative of a general trend towards romance over SF on the show.

Personally, I thought it was nicely done and didn't break with the character continuity of either Rodney or Ronon. Obviously, that may not be saying much if you don't see either character as available for 'shipping, but mileage does vary.

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 01:21 PM
hmm.... to solve this they could have the "bring it on" atlantis episode;and the sequel : "get it on" http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/goret.gif


anyway upon reading the title the 1st time, especially the key words "love" & "triangle" - and not having watched the ep yet, back then - I expected the real deal
then I watched the ep, and..."love triangle" ? what love triangle ?

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 01:26 PM
and the sequel : "get it on" http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/goret.gif


anyway upon reading the title the 1st time, especially the key words "love" & "triangle" - and not having watched the ep yet, back then - I expected the real deal
then I watched the ep, and..."love triangle" ? what love triangle ?

Yeah. It's not really in your face at all aside from the last scene. But I loved that last scene. HIGH-larious!

Dr Quinn
September 23rd, 2008, 01:26 PM
and the sequel : anyway upon reading the title the 1st time, especially the key words "love" & "triangle" - and not having watched the ep yet, back then - I expected the real deal
then I watched the ep, and..."love triangle" ? what love triangle ?

Well, I don't know about the triangle - if you look at those opening and closing scenes with Shep it looks like what we have here is a quadrangle!;)

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 01:28 PM
Well, I don't know about the triangle - if you look at those opening and closing scenes with Shep it looks like what we have here is a quadrangle!;)

So Shep is in love with......Rodney?

fumblesmcstupid
September 23rd, 2008, 01:35 PM
Linda06,

You really shouldn't do something you don't want to do.

Don't feel pressured to watch it when you don't want!

I HATE the triangle so I am not going to watch it in this episode, is it there? Yes two guys saying they like her.....She has shown interest in both men..that is a triangle.


On Rodney, whew! poor guy.

Rodney is Petty, arrogant and bad with people. His words in GUP.

I see Rodney trying SO HARD to be someone he THINKS Keller wants! Rodney isn't nice he's rude Brash and I say this with all the love in my heart, he's also kinda of a D**K!

Now, I don't think Rodney should change his personality for well... Anyone!

I see him getting better at dealing with people, but his friends like John and Teyla Roll their eyes when Rodney starts a rant or goes on about useless crap. In The Queen Rodney talks about the Asgaurd beaming crap for Puddle Jumpers, John GROWLED at him.

I dislike it when people change who they are to please other people.

Chang should be..... because you WANT to change, not just to get in someones pants. :)

Dr Quinn
September 23rd, 2008, 01:36 PM
So Shep is in love with......Rodney?

He did seem a bit.... put out that Rodney was going off world with Jen. ;)

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 01:40 PM
Well, I don't know about the triangle - if you look at those opening and closing scenes with Shep it looks like what we have here is a quadrangle!;)that the thing see, we've yet to see a single segment before we can conclude to the existence of a polygon :/



I bid this thread au'revoir.mmm I like it when you speak french http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/bitman.gif

Linda06
September 23rd, 2008, 01:42 PM
It's really not that bad or that blatant. One scene in the beginning, one scene at the end. The rest is Rodney and Ronon tracking Jen and her captor through the woods.

Eh, if 'shipping isn't generally you're thing I can see how it may bug, but it's hardly indicative of a general trend towards romance over SF on the show.

Personally, I thought it was nicely done and didn't break with the character continuity of either Rodney or Ronon. Obviously, that may not be saying much if you don't see either character as available for 'shipping, but mileage does vary.

Oh i'm a shipper...But it's Shep/Teyla i ship ;)

I could always watch it to ogle.....um i mean compare runner tactics between Ronon and the new runner guy :D


Linda06,

You really shouldn't do something you don't want to do.

Don't feel pressured to watch it when you don't want!

I HATE the triangle so I am not going to watch it in this episode, is it there? Yes two guys saying they like her.....She has shown interest in both men..that is a triangle.


On Rodney, whew! poor guy.

Rodney is Petty, arrogant and bad with people. His words in GUP.

I see Rodney trying SO HARD to be someone he THINKS Keller wants! Rodney isn't nice he's rude Brash and I say this with all the love in my heart, he's also kinda of a D**K!

Now, I don't think Rodney should change his personality for well... Anyone!

I see him getting better at dealing with people, but his friends like John and Teyla Roll their eyes when Rodney starts a rant or goes on about useless crap. In The Queen Rodney talks about the Asgaurd beaming crap for Puddle Jumpers, John GROWLED at him.

I dislike it when people change who they are to please other people.

Chang should be..... because you WANT to change, not just to get in someones pants. :)

No one should change for anyone....Ok did that make sense :S People should like you for who you are...You shouldn'r have to change for anyone ;)

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 01:52 PM
I see Rodney trying SO HARD to be someone he THINKS Keller wants! Rodney isn't nice he's rude Brash and I say this with all the love in my heart, he's also kinda of a D**K!

Now, I don't think Rodney should change his personality for well... Anyone!

I see him getting better at dealing with people, but his friends like John and Teyla Roll their eyes when Rodney starts a rant or goes on about useless crap. In The Queen Rodney talks about the Asgaurd beaming crap for Puddle Jumpers, John GROWLED at him.

I dislike it when people change who they are to please other people.

Chang should be..... because you WANT to change, not just to get in someones pants. :)

Rodney can be nice. Because, ultimately, he is a good person.

Yes he's arrogant (because he is in fact smarter than everyone). Yes he's petty (because he has to control everything....because he's smarter than everyone). And yes he's bad with people...because he's arrogant and petty....because he's smarter than everyone else.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

He's not not nice because he's evil or bad or generally a horrible person, he just normally views being nice as a waste of his time and energy when most people aren't worth it.

But we have seen him be nice. He is capable of it. He is capable of caring and feeling good thing and thinking good thoughts when the people he's directing the goodness towards are deemed worth it.

It's what most people do anyway, only with Rodney it's been multiplied a thousand fold because he is a character on TV.

The people one is most nice and thoughful around are the people that matter most.

He's not changing anything for Jennifer. He's just including her in the "privileged" circle of people he deems to be his friends.

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 01:58 PM
He did seem a bit.... put out that Rodney was going off world with Jen. ;)

That's one way to see it I guess :D



mmm I like it when you speak french http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/bitman.gif

I say all that and the French is what sticks with you? Sigh....men....

:p


Oh i'm a shipper...But it's Shep/Teyla i ship ;)

I could always watch it to ogle.....um i mean compare runner tactics between Ronon and the new runner guy :D


The new guy......mmmmmm.....I remember him fondly......mmmmm

fumblesmcstupid
September 23rd, 2008, 02:08 PM
in The Shrine Keller was so transfixed at his niceness that she didn't notice anything was wrong...she was in "awe" at how nice he was, You can take that as she really is not impressed with his everyday personality.

Ya Rodney can be nice! He is a big Marshmallow covered in spikes and you have to be willing to take him for who he is.

He's trying to impress her with his knowledge of medical Jargon after 5 years of calling it soft science and voodoo. (only Rodney)

a Leopard can shave is hair off, but he still has spots ( and where a leopard got a set of clippers well that is beyond me) He's always ganna be Rodney and I see him changing for Keller and like I said He shouldn't have to. If she wants him, she should take him WARTS and ALL!:)

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 02:17 PM
I say all that and the French is what sticks with you? Sigh....men....

:pI post an earnest, laudatory and completely innocent appraisal of your french-speaking skills and that's all the thanks I get ? sigh...women... :(


and if you must know : no of course not, the rest of whatever it is you said also stuck with me - obviously - but for brevity's sake I only commented on the last part, you know what they say, lasting impressions etc. http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/ange.gif



The new guy......mmmmmm.....I remember him fondly......mmmmmwe have a wonderful episode with action & wraith & new tech & spaceships all about the screen, and the new guy is what sticks with you ? sigh...women ˛

stclare
September 23rd, 2008, 02:20 PM
Last season when the Triangle was first brought up on JM's blog I was dreading this season. Not one to ship any Het pairing, prefering my Mcshep I was expecting it to be a lot more front and centre.

However as the season has progreesed I think Tracker is the first hint at a love triangle and thats almost half way through the season. The writing of the first half actualy brought me into the McKeller pairing and ive enjoyed there interaction ever since.

The only true concern I have over the triangle, is that either Ronon or Rodney will come out hurt. That is something I dont want to see, even though im hoping for Rodney to get the girl. The last scene im still jittery about. Not sure what was up with Ronon in that scene and im not sure I like to think of him as, so arrogant that he would smirk at Rodney like that or that he would tease him over something which is obviousley so important to him.

I guess, for me personaly, I will have to wait to see how the triangle shapes up now that its out there. If it does make Rodney look bad or Ronon look bad then I will be disappointed, though in truth if it ends up McKeller ill be singing from the rooftops :)

Oh right my point, I was a staunch no to all ship now im a firm yes to mckeller, so as far as im concerned the love triangle has worked for me, so far. I reserve the right to come back and blast the hell out of it if my ship sinks - its the right of all fans to be selfish about what they want to see in the show, it doesnt however mean that you will actualy get it. Mcshep will not happen on screen ((pouts at the thought of the joint hotness and woobieness that could have been achieved there)) which I am content to live with.

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 02:29 PM
I post an earnest, laudatory and completely innocent appraisal of your french-speaking skills and that's all the thanks I get ? sigh...women... :(

and if you must know : no of course not, the rest of whatever it is you said also stuck with me - obviously - but for brevity's sake I only commented on the last part, you know what they say, lasting impressions etc. http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/ange.gif

Ah, okay. Well, that's alright then. You're forgiven.



we have a wonderful episode with action & wraith & new tech & spaceships all about the screen, and the new guy is what sticks with you ? sigh...women ˛

I'm sorry. Circuits just don't do it for me in the way that an attractive flesh-and-blood male specimen does it for me.

If it helps redeem women in your view, he looked at his hottest when doing "action"-ful things. Like killing those Wraith you mentioned.

See? I do appreciate the action and the Wraith.....in my own unique way. :D

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 02:39 PM
If it helps redeem women in your view, he looked at his hottest when doing "action"-ful things. Like killing those Wraith you mentioned.

See? I do appreciate the action and the Wraith.....in my own unique way. :DI'm good :|



btw I also appreciated the new runner - a lot
especially the part where he left through the stargate
http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/vendredi.gif

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 02:42 PM
I'm good :|

I will refrain...



btw I also appreciated the new runner - a lot
especially the part where he left through the stargate
http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/vendredi.gif

Suckage. That's the part I hated the most.

I was sort of hoping we could keep him.

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 02:47 PM
stclare, hun? I completely agree.

I'm not nearly so indiscriminant in my love for McKeller that I would take it regardless of any character butchery.

If they destroy the characters to create the 'ship then I wash my hands of it. And I'll use my clean hands to strangle TPTB.

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 02:59 PM
Suckage. That's the part I hated the most.I kinda guessed that :sheppardanime21:


I was sort of hoping we could keep him.let's consider the odds...6 wraith + 2 darts + personal teleporter K.O...
















...yup nothing that the writers can't handle, I say
we've had worse in the way of suspension of disbelief in the past, so there's still hope for runner boy

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 03:25 PM
FAII, you seem to be functioning under the impression that everything I say is a deliberate attack against you and your opinions. It's really not. You have yours and you're welcome to them. You like expressing them. That's more than fine as well. I have no problem with debate or discussion even when it becomes more impassioned than the subject matter would typically dictate. If someone feels passionately enough about something, than they should express that. As you've done.
No, I'm not. I don't take offense to you just disagreeing with me.

What I do take offense at is, however, you blatantly not reading through my posts or you you just blatantly ignoring parts of them despite having read them just to be able to "refute" them, as your last post shows.

Either you ignored huge chunks of it or you skimmed it and missed tons of important stuff or you just conveniently "forgot" about parts of it. All of these show disrespect.


But you know what? There are significantly better ways of doing it than the method you employed in your previous post. The post which I won't even bother quoting as it doesn't deserve the distinction.
Oh, because I refuted your very bad arguments with no basis in reality, be it in the episode or the stuff you claimed I said so you could either "refute" me or paint me in a bad light?

I'll show you the same courtesy you just showed me, I shall not read the remainder of this post unless you go back, re-read my post and reply to it, because the only reason why it got heated was because you blatantly disrespected me by either ignoring parts of my post while replying to other parts of it (the ones you could "refute" to make me look bad or whatever) or you read it all and chose to consciously misrepresent what I was saying + throw in a few lies.

If you hadn't, I would've stayed perfectly civil. I turned it up a notch because you "started it". And what I did wasn't even that bad. I just bolded a few lines to outline just how absurd I found some of the things that came out of your keyboard to be.

Like how "subtle" it was. Really?


It's really not that bad or that blatant. One scene in the beginning, one scene at the end. The rest is Rodney and Ronon tracking Jen and her captor through the woods.
"Size does not matter, it's how you use it..."
(The amount of shipping does not matter, it's how it is done)


Personally, I thought it was nicely done and didn't break with the character continuity of either Rodney or Ronon. Obviously, that may not be saying much if you don't see either character as available for 'shipping, but mileage does vary.
Then again, you also think it was "subtle".


So Shep is in love with......Rodney?
Funnily enough, that is what came to mind when John seemed irked at Rodney having an interest in Jennifer.

Rac80
September 23rd, 2008, 05:28 PM
Then it is my duty to inform you that in my humble opinion your speculation is absurd ;)
:P:P uh huh and You LIKE mckay...enuff said! :P


I can honestly live without a love triangle. The last one I had to endure was even a love square (Lee-Dee-Kara-Anders) and it left a very foul taste in my mouth.
*shudders* don't remind me! :P (I admit I wanted to airlock lee & kara and see anders and dee live happily ever after :P)

I agree with this and I think that's why Ronon took advantage of it to mess with Rodney at the end of the episode.
WOW someone agreed! well sorta!;)

Oh i'm a shipper...But it's Shep/Teyla i ship ;)

I could always watch it to ogle.....um i mean compare runner tactics between Ronon and the new runner guy :D



No one should change for anyone....Ok did that make sense :S People should like you for who you are...You shouldn'r have to change for anyone ;)

Oh the new runner guy....has anyone started a new thunk thread for him, he was definintely drool-worthy! http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/rac80/smilies/drool.gif defintiely worth watching! (with a shirt or without, coming or going....)

YutheGreat
September 23rd, 2008, 06:12 PM
Is this what they're planning for SGU as the TPtb's means of "character-driven" storylines. It has some potential. I mean in the 15 years combine SG1 and SGA we have never had anything near that.

Anyway I get the feeling that Ronnon was smiling in the end. Either he was pulling Rodney's leg or he knows he is a little ahead of Rodney now.

DrJenniferDex
September 23rd, 2008, 06:35 PM
I vote for, he knows he's a little ahead of Rodney. Carl Binder said himself that 'perhaps he thinks this won’t be much of a competition'.

jenks
September 23rd, 2008, 06:50 PM
Thinks being the key word. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell she'll end up with Ronon, that just wouldn't work. There's more chance of a Keller/McKay relationship, but I think even that is unlikely. I think the chances are neither of them will end up with her, but if one of them does it has to be Rodney.

FallenAngelII
September 24th, 2008, 03:52 AM
Thinks being the key word. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell she'll end up with Ronon, that just wouldn't work. There's more chance of a Keller/McKay relationship, but I think even that is unlikely. I think the chances are neither of them will end up with her, but if one of them does it has to be Rodney.
Why is it unlikely? You know how the PtB love to Alternate Timeline/Universe ship the ships they like the most.

And since McKeller came to fruition in an alternate timeline (albeit under different circumstances) and now we're getting a massive amount of hints towards it in our!Timeline, chances are pretty good it'll come to pass.

daisy1979
September 24th, 2008, 04:37 AM
I love the idea of a relationship- it's normalcy and is just a natural thing to happen to the characters- I hope it's done right. Am I happy about the triangle? Ehh... it's OK, makes it interesting but would rather them just develop (on the sidelines) a true relationship and not a one shot, sleep with her and be done with it...

I love SGA but sometimes I have to laugh. Here's how the episode goes... it's like the generic plot structure of a SGA episode. Start off happy, something goes wrong, McCay panics, whines about always have to save the day, Ronon uses his gun, someone does something heroic, all is happy or almost all happy in the end. OR... throw in some irritating gov. official to make the SGA characters look incompetent.

So... in my opinion, I like the idea of developing a relationship off on the side. It adds depth to the characters and to the show. It's not like the writers are turning it into a soap opera... :p

Integrabyte
September 24th, 2008, 07:31 AM
Menage :P