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dasNdanger
September 19th, 2008, 08:53 PM
I'm not one to usually complain (a lot), and although I found the episode entertaining enough, I also found the ease with which so many Wraith were dispatched - by so few - laughable (again).

This has always been an on-going problem with how the writers handle the Wraith. After such an excellent episode last week, I get the feeling that some writers are actually interested in the Wraith and in developing them and giving them depth, while others use them as sideshow clowns. I think it's one reason that the Wraith aren't taken very serious anymore - you just know they will all be dead by episode's end, so they really don't present any sort of threat whatsoever.

It was one thing poisoning Steve, or murdering Bob, or blowing up The Defiant One. The first two were 'defenseless' prisoners, and the last was out numbered and out gunned. But when Ford started single-handedly taking down batches of Wraith, then Ronon, and now Keller...well....ya know... :rolleyes:

It's hard to believe these guys were EVER a threat in the galaxy. If anything, I think they should hang up their stunners and all become hair dressers and fashion designers, because - obviously - THAT'S what they're really good at. ;)

Now - how would I have made such an episode different?

1. I would have somehow explained WHY the Wraith hunt. Is it all Wraith? A certain faction of Wraith? Is it for sport? Practice? None of this has been clearly addressed, and it would have been easy enough to have a scene explaining this - perhaps the scene in the cave with the child. I would have preferred to see Keller protecting the child, and her telling it not to hurt the girl, and the Wraith perhaps saying that it didn't want the girl - that she was sick and no challenge to him, and then somehow allude to why they hunt in the first place...THEN Keller sticking it to him.

2. I would have had the Wraith be more menacing - more threatening. The whole 'run into the bullets' thing gets old after a while. But if they stalked and tormented and terrorized their prey first (a la The Predator, or something) - not just jumping out of the bushes - that would have increased the suspense and the audience's fear for the well-being of the humans.

Now - that said - I was actually very pleased to see a LOT of faced Wraith in this episode. This episode, along with last week's, have at least suggested that there are more than just two faced Wraith per hive ship. The Wraith, as a hive-based species, should be presented as a 'swarm' - and this episode did convey that feeling. In this it did well. But by making them so easy to kill, so mindless in their predatory tactics, well...it presented them as inept and unskilled, something they are NOT supposed to be.

das

naamiaiset
September 19th, 2008, 09:20 PM
I agree, but wraith as expendable characters is to be expected by now. instead of being built up and presented as a threat, they're just target practice. it doesn't make sense to me why the writers have obliterated the credibility of their main enemy. it's natural that the team/atlantis has become more skilled in fighting them, but this is kind of ridiculous. at least the writers have done one thing right (so far) in regards to the wraith, todd.

maybe TPTB will wise up by the end/the movie(s) at least and not exterminate the entire species.

Lythisrose
September 19th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Pale and Pesky, just like the TV Guide said....
I think I like them better when they are not so easy to swat ;)

LiquidSky
September 19th, 2008, 09:35 PM
I think in the beginning of the series the writers didn't think that the Wraith would become so popular this is due to the fact of Todd. It seems as the season progressed they started to used the Wraith, the masked ones, as expendable background characters not only that they started to 'dumb' down the Wraith as well. This making them look rather silly running toward gunfire. In "Midway" they did this to the mask Wraith with many of them being a filler for our 'heroes:(' to kill.

As the season progress they made the Wraith easier to kill where it took several bullets to take down a Wraith now it take two shot to take them out.

I think some of the writers for SGA don't know what to do with the Wraith. In one episode they are intelligent and ruthless and can't be trusted. Then in another episode they become expendable subjects at the will of the writers because they couldn't come up with a good story involving the Wraith. I would hate to see the fate of the Wraith as this season closes. Like I said in WDC this doesn't bode well for the Wraith.

LS

MyFavoriteWraith
September 19th, 2008, 09:49 PM
1. I would have somehow explained WHY the Wraith hunt. Is it all Wraith? A certain faction of Wraith? Is it for sport? Practice? None of this has been clearly addressed, and it would have been easy enough to have a scene explaining this - perhaps the scene in the cave with the child. I would have preferred to see Keller protecting the child, and her telling it not to hurt the girl, and the Wraith perhaps saying that it didn't want the girl - that she was sick and no challenge to him, and them somehow allude to why they hunt in the first place...THEN Keller sticking it to him.

das

This is a *really* good point. We had "Runner" and we had "Sateda" and now we have "Tracker" and we still have no idea why the Wraith practice this "hunt". Is it a sport for the elite, like fox hunting is for the English? Is it training for the young adults of the Wraith? Is it just an alternative to culling to make life more interesting? Three episodes now and we still have no answers. Trying to make the Wraith more mysterious by leaving out details about their way of life is just doesn't work beyond Season 1.
The Wraith in the cave with the child was a perfect example to me of how the writers still try to make these the "evil bad guys in black". Now if we'd seen a situation like Das suggested above, or if he had even just acted with some disinterest, that would have been more interesting than the hovering monster threatening the little girl. :rolleyes:

Without going back and watching the episode again, I can remember: a drone/soldier being leveled with one shot, several faced Wraith downed after six bullets were fired into it, one pierced through by a wooden-spike trap and another one skewered by Keller. Now, bravo for Keller (really! I do like her), but none of this makes sense! Todd survived many more shots and was in much worse condition than any of these Wraith in Common Ground. Stabbing and even twisting that blade into the internal organs of a Wraith should not have the same affect as a human, considering it's been stated that, though they have them, they don't use/need them! I thought it had been established at the beginning of the series that the reason the Wraith were a threat was a) because their method of feeding was sucking the lifeforce out of humans, b) as Kenny recently reinforced - this method of feeding gives them their strenth, their ability to heal and their longevity, and c) their massive numbers.

Now there have been setbacks for the Wraith, such as their early awakening from hibernation, the destruction of civilizations by the Replicators even further dwindling their food supply, and Michael's tainting of their food source by the Hoffan drug. If the Wraith are easier to kill now because they're not able to eat as much, as often, would someone just friggin' say so?

mfw

JeffKnight
September 19th, 2008, 10:17 PM
I agree with MFW. I think we really need to get a mythology perspective back into Atlantis, especially leading up to the movies. Alas, I don't think we'll see it.

Here's hoping for next week!

Aurora24
September 19th, 2008, 10:36 PM
I'm just wondering with all the problems that the Wraith have had lately, why they are still spending time tracking Runners. If it is some kind of training program than I guess it would make sense for it to continue, however this was never really explained. I guess I'd just like a good reason why, with all the problems that the Wraith have had, especially lately with Michael and the Hoffman drug, and his other experiments, the Wraith still consider it to be worth their time to chase after Runners.

Kritter
September 19th, 2008, 10:44 PM
I hate to say this, because I'm kind of a fan of the green guys, but this whole episode was one big game of Whack a Wraith! :wraith32:

DeRoest
September 20th, 2008, 12:49 AM
keystone cops... green for obscure reference

dasNdanger
September 20th, 2008, 05:06 AM
keystone cops... green for obscure reference

Hee! Did I make you google? :p

Thanks for the green!


das

Aude
September 20th, 2008, 07:25 AM
This is a *really* good point. We had "Runner" and we had "Sateda" and now we have "Tracker" and we still have no idea why the Wraith practice this "hunt". Is it a sport for the elite, like fox hunting is for the English? Is it training for the young adults of the Wraith? Is it just an alternative to culling to make life more interesting? Three episodes now and we still have no answers. Trying to make the Wraith more mysterious by leaving out details about their way of life is just doesn't work beyond Season 1.
The Wraith in the cave with the child was a perfect example to me of how the writers still try to make these the "evil bad guys in black". Now if we'd seen a situation like Das suggested above, or if he had even just acted with some disinterest, that would have been more interesting than the hovering monster threatening the little girl. :rolleyes:



I'm sure the writers do not know because they never thought about...
I love SGA, but sometimes I wonder if they do not think that the audience is stupid or something...

The episodes are like short stories... Nothing is explain! It was the case with the Teyla's transformation into a Wraith Queen, then we have the same problem with this runner... Who is he? Where did he come from? Why did he become a runner? and so on...

Wardog117
September 20th, 2008, 08:28 AM
I agree das. They have made the Wraith nothing more than target practice. The first season did the battle scenes justice, it took ALOT of bullets to take down one of the "officers". Todd has saved the Wraith, and it will be interesting to see what they do with his story as the season progresses.

dasNdanger
September 20th, 2008, 08:58 AM
I agree das. They have made the Wraith nothing more than target practice. The first season did the battle scenes justice, it took ALOT of bullets to take down one of the "officers". Todd has saved the Wraith, and it will be interesting to see what they do with his story as the season progresses.

What most Todd fans fear is that they will turn Todd evil just because they have watered down the other Wraith so much.

I would like to see the Wraith as a whole to be more imposing, a true threat. Tracker would have been a perfect opportunity to have a 'Predator'-style Wraith, or group of Wraith. Of course, in order to do that they would have had to have a couple 'red shirts' - but it could have been done. The Wraith, picking off a couple of villagers first that stand between the runner and Keller, would have just given it a more menacing feel.

Instead, they are the ones who are ambushed. They are the ones who fall so easily. Instead of making us hate them, it almost makes us feel sorry for them, which isn't what's supposed to happen. In my mind, they're like the poor emo kids picked on by bullies - I just wanna see one of 'em stand up and fight back, but with this sort of writing, it'll never happen.

And don't say 'Todd' - because that's what I'm afraid of. Now - if Todd stands up and saves his kind by making nice-nice with the humans, fine. But if they decide to have him become super evil, hellbent on destroying the Lanteans and regaining control of the galaxy - then I'll be very unhappy. Well...actually - I'd be VERY happy if he did that, and I was writing the show, because it would be a very happy ending for the Wraith. :) But since the Wraith are the 'bad guys', and since the writers have no intention of making them otherwise, then if Todd was to fight back against the Lanteans, it would mean his death, and I certainly don't want that.

So...I guess I should be 'happy' with cartoon Wraith if it means Todd will live. Still, I think so much more could have been done with the Wraith in this episode - something that would have brought them a bit closer to the Wraith we saw last week (cunning, dangerous, intelligent).


das

dasNdanger
September 20th, 2008, 09:19 AM
This is a *really* good point. We had "Runner" and we had "Sateda" and now we have "Tracker" and we still have no idea why the Wraith practice this "hunt". Is it a sport for the elite, like fox hunting is for the English? Is it training for the young adults of the Wraith? Is it just an alternative to culling to make life more interesting? Three episodes now and we still have no answers. Trying to make the Wraith more mysterious by leaving out details about their way of life is just doesn't work beyond Season 1.

Exactly. After three episodes dealing with Wraith hunters, we should have decent answers by now. If it's just for sport - FINE. Show us why it's for sport, and who participate. Is it just those of higher birth? Is it for those who have a more sadistic taste for the kill, who savor human suffering more than others, more than those who simply feed to survive, and take it no further than that? We should have some understanding of this by now.


The Wraith in the cave with the child was a perfect example to me of how the writers still try to make these the "evil bad guys in black". Now if we'd seen a situation like Das suggested above, or if he had even just acted with some disinterest, that would have been more interesting than the hovering monster threatening the little girl. :rolleyes:

And the thing is - we have no idea if the Wraith intended to kill the child. He may have been curious - even confused by the child's presence. He may have just turned around and left. Instead, they just tell us he was going to kill the girl, which may not have been the case if they played it out a bit further, and added the 'twist' of him leaving the girl be. THAT would have made more of an impact, because it would have been an intriguing twist, instead of a predictable intention.


Without going back and watching the episode again, I can remember: a drone/soldier being leveled with one shot, several faced Wraith downed after six bullets were fired into it, one pierced through by a wooden-spike trap and another one skewered by Keller. Now, bravo for Keller (really! I do like her), but none of this makes sense! Todd survived many more shots and was in much worse condition than any of these Wraith in Common Ground. Stabbing and even twisting that blade into the internal organs of a Wraith should not have the same affect as a human, considering it's been stated that, though they have them, they don't use/need them! I thought it had been established at the beginning of the series that the reason the Wraith were a threat was a) because their method of feeding was sucking the lifeforce out of humans, b) as Kenny recently reinforced - this method of feeding gives them their strenth, their ability to heal and their longevity, and c) their massive numbers.

Now there have been setbacks for the Wraith, such as their early awakening from hibernation, the destruction of civilizations by the Replicators even further dwindling their food supply, and Michael's tainting of their food source by the Hoffan drug. If the Wraith are easier to kill now because they're not able to eat as much, as often, would someone just friggin' say so?

mfw

Yes - exactly. These Wraith should have been like Wolverine, or something. They should have kept coming back, again and again. They should have been left on the ground, wounded, with the humans running away before they healed and came after them again. Well, not the poor fella who got his head chopped off...but, ya know - they shouldn't have fallen so easily IF they were supposed to represent a true threat.


I agree with MFW. I think we really need to get a mythology perspective back into Atlantis, especially leading up to the movies. Alas, I don't think we'll see it.

Here's hoping for next week!

I think the next two episodes will be about Daniel, with Todd and the Wraith as an afterthought, much like how The Return focused more on O'Neill and Woolsey than on actual SGA characters. Sometimes I really wish they'd make up their minds - did they make a new series called Atlantis, or did they just keep making new SG1 episodes?

Sad thing is, SGA will NOT get the same attention - if it gets any attention at all - in SGU that SG1 was granted during SGA's run. Sucks, really. Gives me the impression that TPTB never really put their hearts into SGA, and are happy to move on. I really won't be surprised if the movie is just a bone tossed to us to shut us up, with no additional movies afterwards (though Mallozzi tried to reassure me that it's not the case...still...in my gut...I just have this feeling).


I'm just wondering with all the problems that the Wraith have had lately, why they are still spending time tracking Runners. If it is some kind of training program than I guess it would make sense for it to continue, however this was never really explained. I guess I'd just like a good reason why, with all the problems that the Wraith have had, especially lately with Michael and the Hoffman drug, and his other experiments, the Wraith still consider it to be worth their time to chase after Runners.

Again - it's a case of showing, and not really explaining. If we knew the motivations and all behind the hunters, if we understood the mindset of the Wraith as far as this practice goes, then it really would have added - not just to the show - but to the entire Wraith mythos.


I hate to say this, because I'm kind of a fan of the green guys, but this whole episode was one big game of Whack a Wraith! :wraith32:


:lol: SO true, SO true!! (Sadly enough...:rolleyes: )

das

tranquil101
September 21st, 2008, 08:41 AM
They should put Benny Hill music in the background whenever a group of Wraith show up!

FallenAngelII
September 21st, 2008, 09:26 AM
Again - it's a case of showing, and not really explaining. If we knew the motivations and all behind the hunters, if we understood the mindset of the Wraith as far as this practice goes, then it really would have added - not just to the show - but to the entire Wraith mythos.
Why does Sarah Palin enjoy or at least support helicopter hunting where hunters fly around in helicopters and shoot at innocent animals below?

Why does Dick Cheney go moose-or-whatever hunting? Why did the British royal family wait 'til only a few years ago before banning fox hunting on royal grounds (I don't remember if they banned it or if they decided not to)? Why do some Americans view it as a rite-of-passage to bring their sons with them to hunt at the age of 12-16 to "make them a man"?

The Wraith's version of hunting is actually quite tame when compared to human hunting sometimes. Of course, they do cull villages along the way to discourage Runners from staying in one set part of the galaxy for too long and they "cheat" by using tracking devices, but, hey, Sarah Palin and the helicopters.

It's just one of their pastimes (or so I presume).

g.o.d
September 21st, 2008, 09:37 AM
their only purpose is to stand in front of P-90's barrels and get shot. Nothing more. They're complete joke, just like and the Ori. All these races were serious threat in the beginning by they were reduced to the complete joke (the Ori in S10).

They only constant threat in Stargate were the goa'uld(especially anubis) and MW replicators.

rien
September 21st, 2008, 03:45 PM
well according to the episode sateda there were only about 7 runners active (including ronan and they didnt know for sure that all the signals were runners)

given the small number of active runners its possible that only one faction of wraith are interested in hunting runners as if all wraith participated in the hunt then there would likely be a larger number of runners active. also given how quickly and persistently they hunt the runners its possible that their main focus/purpose is the hunt.

someone mentioned that being woken early/asurans destroying human worlds/hoffan drug poisoning their food supply means that there is a food shortage for wraith and that might be why a wraith would go after a sick child (though its not certain he was going to feed of her) but it is possible given the hunter waiths dedication/persistence at hunting runners and their tendancy to cull any inhabited areas that a runner passes thru that hunter wraith do not stop in their hunt to go cull a planet unless absolutely necessary (on point of starvation?) and instead feed on any humans they encounter during their hunt.

there is also the fact that hunter wraith are seemingly able to follow runners to any world whereas other waith hives have to worry about encroaching on other hives territory/feeding ground. maybe they only hunt runners that appear on their territory.

although i fancy the theory that they pick one runner and dont let up until they catch him/her. that would explain why the bald wraith king from sateda was so persistent about ronan even though he was no longer active and there were about 6 other runners who were active

to sum up

-there is probably just a faction of wraith who hunt runners

-this faction are so dedicated/persistent in their hunting that they probably dont stop to cull unless necessary or en route

-they most likely pick one runner to hunt and dont let up til he is dead

im sure someone mentioned somewhere that in the episode tracker we would see a different type of wraith and the hunter wraith do seem different from normal faced wraith in their manner/bearing. they seem almost hyper alert and very single minded/focused on their hunt to the exclusion of anything else (they must have nown their were human inhabitants from the very recently deserted village but were more interested in tracking down the runner)

MyFavoriteWraith
September 21st, 2008, 08:22 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if a Runner is the Wraith equivalent to, say lamb or veal? Where as human we keep our young prey confined and feed it a select diet to make it more succulent, then maybe a Runner, who is flooded with fear, anger, resentment and all those emotion-response hormones, is a delicacy to the Wraith. Rhys sure seemed to be enjoying Ronon in Broken Ties, which actually equated to more of a drug than a delicacy. (And what are sythesized hormones but drugs?)

Oh and just to clear something up. Rien, I think, was referring to my post above and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I wasn't suggesting that the Wraith in the cave was going to feed on a sick girl because he was starving. (I personally didn't think he would.) But instead I was trying to say that, here in Season 5, after all the development as characters the Wraith have had in this series, the writers go back to treating them as the standard bad guy. Then I said, if they had chosen for the Wraith to basically ignore the girl - because she is young and sick, therefore not a very good meal - then it would have been more interesting. And even made a little more sense. I mean, you have your moment of scare - a defenseless young girl alone in a cave with a Wraith, but ultimately he's going not going to waste his time on her.

mfw

dasNdanger
September 22nd, 2008, 08:02 PM
When I get a chance I'll address some of the other comments here - been very busy lately.

But I wanted to add something while I'm thinking about it. I actually liked that these Wraith didn't chit chat. Although I would have liked some interaction between the Wraith and Keller in the cave to get some understanding as to why they hunt, but since it was not to be...well...then I really can't complain about them being all 'hissy'. It represented their telepathy - they had no need to talk, and they certainly had no desire holding a conversation with their food. So...yeah, that bit actually worked for me.


das

Ouroboros
September 22nd, 2008, 09:09 PM
Can't help but agree, totally laughable how they handled them.

So if Keller can fight off a Wraith and I can beat the **** out of Keller does that mean that I can beat the **** out of a Wraith now?

Cool, apparently they give hiveships to people who can do that. You can bet mine's going to be run a whole hell of a lot differently to. We're going to kick a LOT of incompetent bumbling queen ass let me tell you.

dasNdanger
September 24th, 2008, 11:14 AM
Over on Mallozzi's blog, I asked Carl Binder some questions about this episode regarding the Wraith. Here are his answers:

1. So, in your mind, why do they hunt - for sport? For training? And do ALL Wraith hunt in this fashion, or just the elite? Or, is it reserved for those who have a more sadistic taste for the kill, who savor human suffering more than those who simply feed in order to survive?

CB: 1) I think only a few Wraith partake in this activity, for training as well as sport.

2. Since when did the Wraith become the Keystone Cops? Seriously, these guys are predators - hunters by nature - and yet an entire army of them is taken down by Mad Max McKay, Ronon, Rambo...I mean...Keller, dude that just had a heart ‘attack’, and an unconscious kid. Really, now.

CB: 2) Several Wraith were killed, but I would not call what we saw an “entire army.” And nowhere near all of them were taken down. Some were killed by Ronon and Kiryk (both Runners experienced in the art of killing Wraith). A few were killed by McKay, who needed to fire many shots to bring them down. As for Keller, she fought with a Wraith for a few seconds (more or less distracting it while McKay reloaded his gun), but if McKay didn’t then immediately shoot that Wraith several times, she would have been fed upon as well.

3. Would the Wraith have fed upon an ailing child? After what happened to Steve, I doubt any Wraith would opt to feed on someone so ill, unless it was absolutely starving. So, was it your intention to suggest that the Wraith was about to feed on the child, or just kill her outright? If so, is this (attempted killing of a child) your way of turning them back into monsters in viewers’ minds, perhaps to counter the enlightening episode last week?

CB: 3) Yes, a Wraith would feed on a child.

4. Since I thought he’d be stunning as a Wraith, I asked Alan M. if he’s ever considered shaving off his eyebrows, slapping on some green face paint and plopping a cotton mop on his head, and he said no, because he’d look like you. Do you take that as a compliment?

4) Yes. Looking like a Wraith would be a huge improvement in my appearance.

:p

das

Laura Dove
September 24th, 2008, 11:28 AM
3. Would the Wraith have fed upon an ailing child? After what happened to Steve, I doubt any Wraith would opt to feed on someone so ill, unless it was absolutely starving. So, was it your intention to suggest that the Wraith was about to feed on the child, or just kill her outright? If so, is this (attempted killing of a child) your way of turning them back into monsters in viewers minds, perhaps to counter the enlightening episode last week?
CB: 3) Yes, a Wraith would feed on a child.

He cautiously avoids the point of your question. Such a lazy answer sounds very "turning them back into monsters in viewers minds" to me." :mad:

Ouroboros
September 24th, 2008, 12:23 PM
He cautiously avoids the point of your question. Such a lazy answer sounds very "turning them back into monsters in viewers minds" to me." :mad:

Nothing evil about wanting a little veal.:D

Personally I'm more worried that he doesn't see anything wrong with the Jaffa like treatment the Wraith got in this episode.

When was the last time we actually saw a Wraith come back to life after being shot anyway? Probably not quite as long as the last time they used their mental illusions.

The Wraith in this episode weren't highly trained deadly hunters. They were a bunch of idiots that had guns and air support and still managed to lose to a group of people with sticks and knives that they outnumbered.

Laura Dove
September 24th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Nothing evil about wanting a little veal.:D

A little very ill veal? Can't taste that good. :eek:


Personally I'm more worried that he doesn't see anything wrong with the Jaffa like treatment the Wraith got in this episode.
When was the last time we actually saw a Wraith come back to life after being shot anyway? Probably not quite as long as the last time they used their mental illusions.
The Wraith in this episode weren't highly trained deadly hunters. They were a bunch of idiots that had guns and air support and still managed to lose to a group of people with sticks and knives that they outnumbered.

I think the coming back to life and mind tricks have been pretty much forgotten after seasons 1 or 2. :S But it makes sense that wraith in this episode were easy to kill, if you assume (as I do) that most hunters are very young and inexperienced wraith. They couldn't use their illusions either, because a runner certainly won't fall for them, and they are hungry, hence their regenerative abilities are at their minimum.

But I agree they were pretty pathetic. :(