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View Full Version : Ronon pulling Mckay's leg at the end.



Briangate78
September 19th, 2008, 08:38 PM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

Falcon 304
September 19th, 2008, 08:43 PM
I don't know what to think, but I do know the the shippers/whumpers are going to go INSANE with this episode. :P

naamiaiset
September 19th, 2008, 08:44 PM
frankly, if the love triangle is never heard of again, I'll be happy... but I know better. I agree though, I think ronon was just trying to rile rodney.

Pandora's_Box
September 19th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I am seriously hoping that's how TPTB meant it.

But who knew our Rodney was so take charge? That entire last scene was Rodney confronting Ronon. Awesome!

RodneyIsGodney
September 19th, 2008, 08:46 PM
frankly, if the love triangle is never heard of again, I'll be happy... but I know better. I agree though, I think ronon was just trying to rile rodney.

:mckay:

I thought so at first but now ...I'm not so sure...

Ruffles
September 19th, 2008, 08:47 PM
That's what Ronon's grin told me although I was expecting him to say "Just kidding" or something. Then again, maybe he's just going to let Rodney squirm for a while. But I don't think he's nearly as interested in Keller as Rodney is.

Earthgate Ricky
September 19th, 2008, 08:47 PM
frankly, if the love triangle is never heard of again, I'll be happy... but I know better. I agree though, I think ronon was just trying to rile rodney.


I check up few upcoming esipodes of SA5 in Stargate Wiki; as I guessed Dr. Keller chose Dr. Rodney after Ronon.

Cheshyre
September 19th, 2008, 08:48 PM
I was getting that vibe, too, Brian. That smile was just too mischievous to make me think that Ronon was completely sincere with his...intentions. I think Ronon is having a bit of fun with this.

the fifth man
September 19th, 2008, 08:49 PM
I am seriously hoping that's how TPTB meant it.

But who knew our Rodney was so take charge? That entire last scene was Rodney confronting Ronon. Awesome!

Yeah, I am hoping Ronon was just messing with Rodney too. I really think he was.

McKay confronting Ronon. I never saw that coming, that is for sure. Good for him.

tombombadil
September 19th, 2008, 08:50 PM
he didn't seem to serious......but still, i don't care:P

Teslan
September 19th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I wasn't really sure. He grinned, like he was joking, but then so did Han Solo in the first 'Star Wars'. We know how that turned out. Thus,

Rodney is Keller's brother!:eek::rolleyes:

Pandora's_Box
September 19th, 2008, 08:53 PM
I wasn't really sure. He grinned, like he was joking, but then so did Han Solo in the first 'Star Wars'. We know how that turned out. Thus,

Rodney is Keller's brother!:eek::rolleyes:

GAH!!!!

:: runs away screaming ::

Don't say it. Don't you dare even think it again!

Plus, Ronon Dex is no Han Solo. Do not sully my memory of that glorious man.

jenks
September 19th, 2008, 08:56 PM
My connection funked up with about 5 minutes to go, so I missed it, but I didn't get that feeling throughout the rest of the episode.

Cheshyre
September 19th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Plus, Ronon Dex is no Han Solo. Do not sully my memory of that glorious man.

Well, Ronon does look like he's sporting a Wookie on his head. Maybe he's trying to be Han and Chewie. :p

aboleyn24
September 19th, 2008, 09:00 PM
I was under the impression we weren't supposed to post any spoilers for upcoming episodes here. I am really trying to stay spoiler free so please spoiler tag things on unaired episodes.


thank you

RodneyIsGodney
September 19th, 2008, 09:01 PM
^The episode aired 2 hours ago! This is a discussion thread about the episode that we saw!



I wasn't really sure. He grinned, like he was joking, but then so did Han Solo in the first 'Star Wars'. We know how that turned out. Thus,

Rodney is Keller's brother!:eek::rolleyes:


Now I gotta go wash my eyes ...with the strongest disinfectant I can find!:mckay:

Pandora's_Box
September 19th, 2008, 09:01 PM
My connection funked up with about 5 minutes to go, so I missed it, but I didn't get that feeling throughout the rest of the episode.

Shhhhhhh.....

Why are you here? Why are you ruining my moment?!

Shhhhhhhh....

Pandora's_Box
September 19th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Well, Ronon does look like he's sporting a Wookie on his head. Maybe he's trying to be Han and Chewie. :p

No. Just....no.

If anyone is Han, it's Shep. Not this Ronon character with a live animal atop his head and one facial expression.

Although he did change it up tonight and I must say I was proud of him. He grinned mischievously. That is no easy feat, especially for one so unpracticed in the art of expression.


Now I gotta go wash my eyes ...with disinfectant.:mckay:

Bleach works better. I know. I had to do it.

Cheshyre
September 19th, 2008, 09:09 PM
No. Just....no.

If anyone is Han, it's Shep.

Well, I'll give you that. He's got the right snark for it, anyway.

ManiacMike
September 19th, 2008, 09:10 PM
Hes making Rodney work to get Keller. Hes just acting like hes interested to get Rodney up and more interested in her. When hes whimpy side shows itself, its bad for him. He lost his last one that way.

Shan Bruce Lee
September 19th, 2008, 09:30 PM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

Yeah, it's what Ronon always does to Rodney. It was a funny scene.

Redhooks
September 19th, 2008, 11:55 PM
I was under the impression we weren't supposed to post any spoilers for upcoming episodes here. I am really trying to stay spoiler free so please spoiler tag things on unaired episodes.
You are correct. It is against the forum rules and the post has been reported to the mods.


^The episode aired 2 hours ago! This is a discussion thread about the episode that we saw!
The post talked about future episodes in a specific episode thread. Spoiler tags should have been used and you were incorrect that it only talked about Tracker or other previously aired episodes. :(

To stay on-topic, Ronon is definitely playing a mind game with Rodney in my opinion.

Brain_Child
September 20th, 2008, 12:10 AM
You guys all seem to think that Ronon's smile was mischievous when I thought it was confidence. Or atleast thats what the juxtaposition of Rodney's and Ronon's facial expressions seemed to indicate. Ronon appears confident of winning, while Rodney, not so much.

But I dont like the love triangle. I can only see it ending badly for the loser, Mckay or Ronon, and they are two of the best characters in the show. Like if Ronon wins, there will always be this tension when Mckay is in same room as either Ronon or Keller and vice versa.

TeacherGal
September 20th, 2008, 03:44 AM
You guys all seem to think that Ronon's smile was mischievous when I thought it was confidence. Or atleast thats what the juxtaposition of Rodney's and Ronon's facial expressions seemed to indicate. Ronon appears confident of winning, while Rodney, not so much.

But I dont like the love triangle. I can only see it ending badly for the loser, Mckay or Ronon, and they are two of the best characters in the show. Like if Ronon wins, there will always be this tension when Mckay is in same room as either Ronon or Keller and vice versa.

I, too, saw the smile as arrogance more than anything else. Basically thinking that Rodney will be no challenge for him.

I don't want a love triangle either. I just want to see Keller pick Rodney and tell Ronan to buzz off. Of course if she picks Ronan, then I might not be as upset about the cancellation as I've been.

trekie
September 20th, 2008, 05:43 AM
While I think Ronon was playing Rodney a little bit, I don't think that he's not interested at all. Maybe just not as much as Rodney.

spoilers for upcoming episode for the season:
I think in the Lost Tribe when Ronon and Keller have to work together, they will adress the tension between themselves and realize that they are not that into each other.

Although, it could be the McKeller fan talking in me...

Rac80
September 20th, 2008, 09:02 AM
You guys all seem to think that Ronon's smile was mischievous when I thought it was confidence. Or atleast thats what the juxtaposition of Rodney's and Ronon's facial expressions seemed to indicate. Ronon appears confident of winning, while Rodney, not so much.

But I dont like the love triangle. I can only see it ending badly for the loser, Mckay or Ronon, and they are two of the best characters in the show. Like if Ronon wins, there will always be this tension when Mckay is in same room as either Ronon or Keller and vice versa.

I saw it that way too, that was confidence smiling!
I want her to pick Ronon, who wants a whiner like Mckay? not any intelligent girl! ;)

Ethell
September 20th, 2008, 11:23 AM
I, too, saw the smile as arrogance more than anything else. Basically thinking that Rodney will be no challenge for him.

I don't want a love triangle either. I just want to see Keller pick Rodney and tell Ronan to buzz off. Of course if she picks Ronan, then I might not be as upset about the cancellation as I've been.

That's what I thought, too. Never did it cross my mind that Ronon was only teasing McKay, because if he wasn't into Keller, than why would he have volunteered to go off-world with her to begin with?

And the fact that Ronon thinks McKay is no challenge really makes me mad at him! I'd choose McKay over Ronon any day!

jyh
September 20th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I too think Ronon was just pulling Rodney's leg. I did have a few twinges of wondering whether he really did have intentions toward Keller, but in the long run, I don't really think so. Someone (Trekie?) mentioned that Ronon might have SOME interest in Keller, but not too strongly, and that might be the case. In fact, who knows, maybe he hadn't thought of pursuing the Keller Connection, until McKay brought it up. Maybe now he'll actually do something about it.

Nah, I think he might just play w/ McKay's head. He'll be careful not to hurt Keller, but you never know, he might just push Rodney to great romantic achievements.

(Is that even possible...??)

Killdeer
September 20th, 2008, 11:37 AM
I, too, saw the smile as arrogance more than anything else. Basically thinking that Rodney will be no challenge for him.


Yeah - gotta agree, that's how I saw it too. And Rodney was feeling pretty insecure.

Infinite-Possibilities
September 20th, 2008, 11:49 AM
While I think it looked like and would make sense as a smile of mischievousness, it is probably supposed to be a confidence in victory smile.

Frankly, one I thought was doomed from the start because as soon as Ronon gave the girl the doll and smiled at Keller, and Rodney looked upset, I knew that Keller would chose Rodney. The fact is though, I find it incredibly depressing that it has come to this. This triangle is embarrassing tow watch from the minute it appeared whole onscreen.

Rosehawk
September 20th, 2008, 12:12 PM
You guys all seem to think that Ronon's smile was mischievous when I thought it was confidence. Or atleast thats what the juxtaposition of Rodney's and Ronon's facial expressions seemed to indicate. Ronon appears confident of winning, while Rodney, not so much.
I think his smile was a combination of both mischievousness and confidence. Ronon has never been one to lack in the confidence area, while Rodney lacks self-confidence in areas of personal issues such as relationships. So for Ronon's smile to appear confident of winning, that wouldn't suprise me because that is in character for Ronon. Ronon also knows how to make Mckay feel uncomfortable just by staring at him and I think he rather enjoys doing that to McKay! Which is what makes me feel that his smile was more mischievous, at least at first, to give Rodney a hard time.
However it is quite possible that at the end Ronon realized that maybe it's time for him to start opening up to the possiblity of a relationship again.


That's what I thought, too. Never did it cross my mind that Ronon was only teasing McKay, because if he wasn't into Keller, than why would he have volunteered to go off-world with her to begin with?
I wouldn't read to much into him volunteering to go off-world with Keller. He did it several times with Teyla. Wasn't there an episode where Ronon told Teyla that he sometimes just needs to get out of Atlantis - don't remember his exact words but it was something to that affect. And he did volunteer to go with Zelenka to the mainland in Echos, so Ronon does volunteer to help others out off-world.

maffieg
September 20th, 2008, 02:06 PM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

I'm sorry but disagree. I wouldn't like that to be how people perceive Ronon. As someone who would tease his friend about liking the same girl as he does. I like Ronon cause he is what he is. He is to the point and above all I think he is quite honest. In that ending scene, if it were all a joke, he would of told Rodney that he was just kidding and that Rodney would have smooth sailing there but no he didn't. He remained honest enough to his friend to let him know that yep he's a bit attracted to her too.

So I hope it all resolves itself but I'm sooo not a fan of the two of them after Keller. I'd much rather they both found someone else.

thedrumm3rguy
September 21st, 2008, 03:57 AM
hiya!

I could see ronan teasing along Rodney for his own good: making him Man up, in the end for rodneys benifit....

..jsut get the image of ronan making a move on Keller, Rodney storming off, then Ronan smiling and fist-bumping Sheppard :D

Ikaros
September 21st, 2008, 11:42 AM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

Yes i think it was obvius ;)
I wasn't watching alone, all my pals said the same , while laughing at poor Rodney ourselves..... :o

Aquarian
September 21st, 2008, 12:38 PM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

I agree. That seems to make the most sense in this situation.

jenks
September 21st, 2008, 01:44 PM
He wasn't pulling McKay's leg, he just isn't open about that sort of thing and he was embarrassed, that's why he didn't look serious.

Sweetwaterspice
September 21st, 2008, 09:11 PM
I really really really hope you guys are right! Keller belongs with Rodney! Ronon's sex appeal is too much for her to handle!

Reign
September 21st, 2008, 11:14 PM
The question is why did Ronon decide to go with them in the first place? Rodney was suprised that he was going with them. Did Ronon go out of the kindness of his heart? Did he go because he had the same "intentions" that Rodney had? Did Sheppard put him up to it to mess with Rodney a bit, as Sheppard seemed to be messing with him a bit in the beginning too. Dont know, dont care. Personally, I'd perfer they drop the whole thing all together.

metalheart777
September 21st, 2008, 11:33 PM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

Holy mackerel, I can't believe I didn't think of that. I took the scene at face value, but now looking back at it, I can totally see how this might be Ronon's way of "making him squirm" as someone said.

~ mh777

Klinjon
September 22nd, 2008, 03:03 AM
I didn't realise a thread had already been made concerning this topic...

OK, I swear Ronon was joking with McKay at the very end (regarding himself also having "intentions" towards Keller.) Everything, from the way he kept asking him more questions (making an already nervous Rodney feel more awkward and uncomfortable), to the growth of his gradual smile at the satisfaction of being presented another opportunity to tease him relentlessly (their friendship is one of the most intersting in the show) gave the indication Ronan was joking!

I don't think there is a love triangle here at all, at least not in the literall sense. For example, that moment where Ronon gives the girl her doll, which impresses Keller, is meant to make Rodney think Ronon has feelings for her, not make the audience think that.

My understanding of the scene (and episode as a whole) was that Rodney was being strung along to think Ronon was interested in Keller, when really he was just playing up an opportunity to make the good doctor squirm some more.

For those in doubt of my logic, watch that last scene again with the knowledge that Ronon is teasing McKay and doesn't actually have intentions towards Keller. I think the true meaning of the scene that the writers were attempting to convey will become apparent.

Ripple in Space
September 22nd, 2008, 08:00 AM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

Momoa played it like Ronon was just teasing Rodney, and had no "intention" of going after Keller. If that's how he was directed, he did a great job.

If he was told that Ronon is really into Keller then Momoa did a horrible job.

Blencathra
September 22nd, 2008, 08:06 AM
So a man who rarely (if ever) talks about his love life, bearing in mind it took him 2 years to tell his best friend (John) about his wife and her death and who looked totally embarrassed when Jennifer asked him about his wife during the quarantine lockdown, suddenly decides to tell Rodney that he is interested romantically in Jennifer for a joke?

I don't think so.

Briangate78
September 22nd, 2008, 08:10 AM
Momoa played it like Ronon was just teasing Rodney, and had no "intention" of going after Keller. If that's how he was directed, he did a great job.

If he was told that Ronon is really into Keller then Momoa did a horrible job.

I am going with that Jason M did a great job. So he was likely teasing him.

Pandora's_Box
September 22nd, 2008, 08:16 AM
So a man who rarely (if ever) talks about his love life, bearing in mind it took him 2 years to tell his best friend (John) about his wife and her death and who looked totally embarrassed when Jennifer asked him about his wife during the quarantine lockdown, suddenly decides to tell Rodney that he is interested romantically in Jennifer for a joke?

I don't think so.

Not a joke necessarily, but we have seen that Ronon and Rodney have an interesting relationship.

Personally, I haven't seen anything depicted on SGA that would lead me to believe that Ronon has an equal or greater depth of feeling for Jennifer than Rodney does. Rodney loves her for crying out loud.

And while I'm not claiming that Ronon isn't at all attracted to her, he could very well be playing up his "intentions" for her because he sees how uncomfortable Rodney is with the situation. After all, he really only said, "maybe". Not even a yes. And his tone was far too....playful is the only way I can think to phrase it...throughout that entire scene.

We've never seen Ronon played that way, which is why I find it interesting that the director and Momoa chose to lpay him like that this time around in this particular scene.

Blencathra
September 22nd, 2008, 08:26 AM
But Pandora, if what you say is true, that means that Ronon is stringing Jennifer along just to play a joke on Rodney.

I cannot condone anyone toying with someones affections just for a laugh, and I hope TPTB wouldn't say so either.

I think Ronon is telling the truth.

Pandora's_Box
September 22nd, 2008, 08:34 AM
But Pandora, if what you say is true, that means that Ronon is stringing Jennifer along just to play a joke on Rodney.

I cannot condone anyone toying with someones affections just for a laugh, and I hope TPTB wouldn't say so either.

I think Ronon is telling the truth.

That would be true if we'd seen Ronon really doing anything to make Jennifer believe he felt more than he actually does, but we haven't seen him actually do anything aside from the almost kiss in Quarantine.

So far we've seen Rodney and Jennifer be flirtatious and have seen overt feelings that extend deeper than friendship from Rodney especially, but nothing that even comes close to that from Ronon.

You may call him shy or introverted when in it comes to relationships, but Ronon does not strike me as the type of character to just do nothing when he wants something. If he'd wanted more from Jennifer, he would have gotten it. He hasn't done anything so that makes me believe that he either still isn't ready (as per what he told Sheppard ages ago), isn't that interested, or the writers are writing him inconstistently as a plot device to further this triangle.

maxbo
September 22nd, 2008, 08:37 AM
After watching the final scene in the episode. I believe Ronon is totally not into Keller like Rodney is. I think he was teasing with him because he did not know at first what Rodney meant, but then when he did, you can see his smile and it just seemed he was playing with Rodney. What do you think?

I just read the transcript and I agree that Ronon didn't seem to be interested in Keller and Keller didn't seem to be interested in Ronon or Rodney. The only interest I saw was that Rodney was interested in Keller. Now I understand why some are saying that there wasn't any triangle in this episode.


Momoa played it like Ronon was just teasing Rodney, and had no "intention" of going after Keller. If that's how he was directed, he did a great job.

If he was told that Ronon is really into Keller then Momoa did a horrible job.

Good point. I think that's it in a nutshell. Jason either did a great job or he did a lousy job.


So a man who rarely (if ever) talks about his love life, bearing in mind it took him 2 years to tell his best friend (John) about his wife and her death and who looked totally embarrassed when Jennifer asked him about his wife during the quarantine lockdown, suddenly decides to tell Rodney that he is interested romantically in Jennifer for a joke?

I don't think so.

You're inadvertently making a good point about why Ronon doesn't appear to be serious about Keller by discussing how serious he becomes when he talks about Melena.

Yet, when discussing Keller with an obviously smitten Rodney, he teases him. IMO, if Ronon were interested in Keller I don't think he would be cruel enough to tease Rodney about it. It's because he's not a threat to Rodney (where Keller's concerned) that he felt comfortable enough to have fun with him.

I'm relieved that TPTB didn't totally jump the shark with this episode by making it seem that Ronon has been pining over Keller when we've seen no evidence that he's even interested in her beyond that one scene in Trio.

Blencathra
September 22nd, 2008, 08:49 AM
That would be true if we'd seen Ronon really doing anything to make Jennifer believe he felt more than he actually does, but we haven't seen him actually do anything aside from the almost kiss in Quarantine.

So does insisting on going after Jennifer, when Rodney wanted to go back to the gate, fighting Kiryk or giving the little girl her doll and then smiling at Jennifer not count?




So far we've seen Rodney and Jennifer be flirtatious and have seen overt feelings that extend deeper than friendship from Rodney especially, but nothing that even comes close to that from Ronon.

As for Rodney and Jennifer being flirtatious, I hardly call her eating his fruitcup, flirting.



You may call him shy or introverted when in it comes to relationships, but Ronon does not strike me as the type of character to just do nothing when he wants something. If he'd wanted more from Jennifer, he would have gotten it. He hasn't done anything so that makes me believe that he either still isn't ready (as per what he told Sheppard ages ago), isn't that interested, or the writers are writing him inconstistently as a plot device to further this triangle.

But he is introverted when it comes to relationships. It took John two years to find out that Ronon had a significant other on Sateda. Wouldn't you have thought that it might have come up at some point?

I think the bolded part is the most likely. I can't imagine why Ronon would suddenly tell Rodney about being interested in a girl, whether he was joking or not. But I suppose I can live with it. *sigh*

Edit - I don't see how anyone can give their opinion on the subject by just reading the transcript. Sorry.

Pandora's_Box
September 22nd, 2008, 08:53 AM
So does insisting on going after Jennifer, when Rodney wanted to go back to the gate, fighting Kiryk or giving the little girl her doll and then smiling at Jennifer not count?

From what I gather, he would do that for Sheppard, Teyla, or McKay. Does he love them and want to make babies with all of them too? :D



As for Rodney and Jennifer being flirtatious, I hardly call her eating his fruitcup, flirting.

It's what they were saying and how. Very flirtatious.

....Wait.....You don't get turned on by fruitcups, Blen?



But he is introverted when it comes to relationships. It took John two years to find out that Ronon had a significant other on Sateda. Wouldn't you have thought that it might have come up at some point?

All that means is that he would never say anything. He's just not the "kiss and tell" type. That doesn't mean that he's also incapable of making a move or showing feeling. We should have still seen signs of his feelings in his actions towards her sometime before Quarantine and now (like we have with Rodney) if he truly had intentions.



Edit - I don't see how anyone can give their opinion on the subject by just reading the transcript. Sorry.

Oh, they can give their opinion quite freely and readily apparently. That doesn't necessarily mean that there's a lot of substance behind it however.

Blencathra
September 22nd, 2008, 09:38 AM
From what I gather, he would do that for Sheppard, Teyla, or McKay. Does he love them and want to make babies with all of them too? :D

Who knows? He's been "without" for a very long time :S :D

You are right, but I don't think he would be quite so... desperate about it, like running off without Rodney and poking Rodneys knee with his gun while telling him off for holding him up.

But you do admit to the fact that Ronon is wanting to make babies with someone. :D



It's what they were saying and how. Very flirtatious.

....Wait.....You don't get turned on by fruitcups, Blen?

Hell no. I prefer something meatier, that I can get my teeth into. :D



All that means is that he would never say anything. He's just not the "kiss and tell" type. That doesn't mean that he's also incapable of making a move or showing feeling. We should have still seen signs of his feelings in his actions towards her sometime before Quarantine and now (like we have with Rodney) if he truly had intentions.

He did. Most notably in Doppleganger.

After the Quarantine epsiode, perhaps he didn't quite know what to think but Jennifers kidnapping and Rodney's obvious interest has crystalised his feelings.



Oh, they can give their opinion quite freely and readily apparently. That doesn't necessarily mean that there's a lot of substance behind it however.

True. But nuances of look & voice are important though when debating this particular subject.

BTW Pandora, I'm conscious that we are spamming a thread that should be about whether Ronon was joking or not. Perhaps we could take this conversation over to this thread? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=58159&page=5)

Briangate78
September 22nd, 2008, 10:28 AM
I just read the transcript and I agree that Ronon didn't seem to be interested in Keller and Keller didn't seem to be interested in Ronon or Rodney. The only interest I saw was that Rodney was interested in Keller. Now I understand why some are saying that there wasn't any triangle in this episode.



See, this is why I think the writers of Atlantis have become deeper and are writing for 3D characters. When we think like this, it's a good sign.

My take is Keller is interested in Mckay. Remember when Teyla visits her in "The Seed" with the baby? She says to Teyla that she catches Mckay talking to Carson in stasis. She then goes onto say with a smirk that "he amazes me sometimes". Also, in "The Shrine", the video shows Rodney saying he loves Keller, and you can see the look on her face.

I also think "The Last Man" is very Foreshadowing to events that could happen. What would be very impressive of the writers if something did happen to Keller down the road like if she fell ill and actually died, but alas the show has been cancelled for Teenage Mutant Stargate Universe so we will never see this play out. :S

maxbo
September 22nd, 2008, 11:00 AM
See, this is why I think the writers of Atlantis have become deeper and are writing for 3D characters. When we think like this, it's a good sign.

My take is Keller is interested in Mckay. Remember when Teyla visits her in "The Seed" with the baby? She says to Teyla that she catches Mckay talking to Carson in stasis. She then goes onto say with a smirk that "he amazes me sometimes". Also, in "The Shrine", the video shows Rodney saying he loves Keller, and you can see the look on her face.

I also think "The Last Man" is very Foreshadowing to events that could happen. What would be very impressive of the writers if something did happen to Keller down the road like if she fell ill and actually died, but alas the show has been cancelled for Teenage Mutant Stargate Universe so we will never see this play out. :S

I agree that, based on past episodes, Keller is interested in Rodney - I just didn't see any interest in this episode. Also, because Trio was the only Ronon/Keller moment, I was wondering how TPTB would make Ronon a part of a triangle. I was pleased to see that they didn't really try because they put the focus Rodney's feelings more than anything else.

Unfortunately, by focusing on Rodney's feelings, TPTB sort of left him out there twisting in the breeze and I don't care for that because now it looks like he's more interested in Keller than she is in him.

I know one of the writers said they didn't know where this "triangle" was going and this episode certainly supports that.

Briangate78
September 22nd, 2008, 11:09 AM
I agree that, based on past episodes, Keller is interested in Rodney - I just didn't see any interest in this episode. Also, because Trio was the only Ronon/Keller moment, I was wondering how TPTB would make Ronon a part of a triangle. I was pleased to see that they didn't really try because they put the focus Rodney's feelings more than anything else.

Unfortunately, by focusing on Rodney's feelings, TPTB sort of left him out there twisting in the breeze and I don't care for that because now it looks like he's more interested in Keller than she is in him.

I know one of the writers said they didn't know where this "triangle" was going and this episode certainly supports that.

I totally agree that this triangle did not exsist and was supposed to not go anywhere. The episode was meant to focus more on Rodney's feeling for Keller. This time he basically said it out loud in so many words. "I am interested in Keller".

Constanza
September 22nd, 2008, 12:31 PM
I wasn't really sure. He grinned, like he was joking, but then so did Han Solo in the first 'Star Wars'. We know how that turned out. Thus,

Rodney is Keller's brother!:eek::rolleyes:

Hahahahahahaha… oh boy!

Ripple in Space
September 22nd, 2008, 01:14 PM
(...)
You are right, but I don't think he would be quite so... desperate about it, like running off without Rodney and poking Rodneys knee with his gun while telling him off for holding him up.
(...)
He did. Most notably in Doppleganger.

After the Quarantine epsiode, perhaps he didn't quite know what to think but Jennifers kidnapping and Rodney's obvious interest has crystalised his feelings.


True. But nuances of look & voice are important though when debating this particular subject.

BTW Pandora, I'm conscious that we are spamming a thread that should be about whether Ronon was joking or not. Perhaps we could take this conversation over to this thread? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=58159&page=5)

I'm personally of neither camp, because I think "shipping" would be bad for the show (Joe Flannigan said the same thing recently). Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Jack & Sam get married after SG-1 is over with, but any shipping pre-ending would stunt the story.

Like I said before, Momoa clearly played it like he was teasing McKay, his facial expressions were clearly showing that he wasn't being serious, when Ronon's serious it's really obvious. And like others were saying, none of the scenes (recently) showed Ronon indicating that he likes Keller anymore than anyone else. He trains Rodney & Marines too, and whenever anyone of his team are missing or in trouble, he pursues at 100%.

Now if there is a triangle, which based on the most recent eps I doubt, just logically I'm pretty sure she'd pick McKay. Why? Because McKay is a brainy ordinary looking guy like, oh, the writers. Ronon is portrayed by a former male supermodel unlike the writers. Also, the writers have given a more pro-McKay bias than any other character including Jack, Daniel & John. Just look at how many eps McKay is front & center in.

The only reason I'd have a slight leaning towards Keller ending up with McKay would be because Hewlett's given amazing performances showing a deep affection for her in "The Last Man" & "The Shrine." But still, I wouldn't want to see it coming to fruition until they're ready to end the stories of Keller's character. And I really wouldn't care if she ended up with Ronon, well except that that would mean Momoa did a crappy job of showing genuine love & rivalry in this last ep.

Pandora's_Box
September 22nd, 2008, 01:16 PM
.
BTW Pandora, I'm conscious that we are spamming a thread that should be about whether Ronon was joking or not. Perhaps we could take this conversation over to this thread? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=58159&page=5)

Oh, I don't think it's spamming if it's on the topic of whether or not Ronon was teasing Rodney and why.

Right, Brian oh masterful starter-of-the-thread?

MIZA
September 22nd, 2008, 03:07 PM
:mckay:

I thought so at first but now ...I'm not so sure...




yeah i believe that , i think he was just messing with him

but honestly i think Ronon and Keller are a bad match i mean i don't care for anylove triangles i have had a enough of them in shows

also i am particularly fond of behind the doors slash

Briangate78
September 22nd, 2008, 06:19 PM
This might help...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Y3FssMAYY

Ruffles
September 22nd, 2008, 06:45 PM
That's what I thought, too. Never did it cross my mind that Ronon was only teasing McKay, because if he wasn't into Keller, than why would he have volunteered to go off-world with her to begin with?

And the fact that Ronon thinks McKay is no challenge really makes me mad at him! I'd choose McKay over Ronon any day!

Are we sure Ronon volunteered to go off-world? We know McKay did because Sheppard clearly states it. However, I can't imagine Woolsey or Sheppard allowing Keller to go off-world by herself. Even if they fully trusted these people, the Wraith could (and did) show up at any minute. And Sheppard certainly wouldn't let 2 civilians (McKay and Keller) go without armed escort.

Ronon might have volunteered. Keller might have asked him. Sheppard might have asked him. But I don't think you can read Ronon going with her in the same light as McKay going.

And I'd choose McKay over Ronon, too. :D


I'm sorry but disagree. I wouldn't like that to be how people perceive Ronon. As someone who would tease his friend about liking the same girl as he does. I like Ronon cause he is what he is. He is to the point and above all I think he is quite honest. In that ending scene, if it were all a joke, he would of told Rodney that he was just kidding and that Rodney would have smooth sailing there but no he didn't. He remained honest enough to his friend to let him know that yep he's a bit attracted to her too.

So I hope it all resolves itself but I'm sooo not a fan of the two of them after Keller. I'd much rather they both found someone else.

You make a good point - Ronon is what he is. However, he's also spent a lot of time with McKay over the past four years and knows how to motivate him. In McKay's world, everything is a competition. What better way to keep Rodney on his toes than to let him think he has to be his best when he's around Keller? I do think Ronon has a soft spot for Keller because she reminds him of Melena. He's going to be protective of her and want her to be treated right.

I think his initial response to McKay was his honest answer.

What are your intentions? None.
Are you interested in her? No.

It's only after Rodney admits to being interested that Ronon says he is.


So a man who rarely (if ever) talks about his love life, bearing in mind it took him 2 years to tell his best friend (John) about his wife and her death and who looked totally embarrassed when Jennifer asked him about his wife during the quarantine lockdown, suddenly decides to tell Rodney that he is interested romantically in Jennifer for a joke?

I don't think so.

I don't think I'd call what Ronon said a "joke". I think he said it as a challenge to McKay. As I noted above, his original answer was no. I think if he were truly interested in her and McKay had asked the question, that Ronon's demeanor would have been different - a lot more standoffish not smiling. Because you're right. He hasn't been open about his past. Suddenly he's telling McKay that he's interested in Keller? That doesn't sound like him.

Everlovin
September 22nd, 2008, 09:46 PM
Personally, I don't think Ronon was teasing Rodney at all. I think it is important to remember that Ronon is from another culture. He probably doesn't know all of the idioms that we throw around with ease. Intentions at first could have been intending to do any number of things. I think with the look on Rodney's face after Ronon answered "No" clued him into the fact that intentions was probably something significant. Then, he had to decide how vulnerable he wanted to make himself to Rodney. I.e. admitting his feelings. Personally, I thought the smile he gave there could be described as wolfish.

grime
September 23rd, 2008, 07:15 AM
i think keller shows a lot of interest in rodney this episode. well, she at least mentions him twice.

once when she grabs the fried teleportation device, thinking that he would like to to examine it.

second when the little girl says (of the new runner) "he acts means, but he's not really" and keller says that she know someone just like that. i like that she COULD be alking about either ronon or rodney, but i think it's mckay on her mind!

and just for the record, i never even considered that ronon might be kidding! great idea and now my preferred reading of the scene.

maxbo
September 23rd, 2008, 07:31 AM
This might help...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Y3FssMAYY

Thanks for posting this, Brian. That scene played exactly the way I imagined. Ronon was so messing with Rodney here. First, he seemed to be puzzled that Rodney would think he's interested in Keller and then when he realized that Rodney was asking because *he* was the one who was interested, it sort of looked like Ronon was trying to motivate Rodney into going for it.

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 07:36 AM
I found it particulary hilarious when he says,

"Maybe I do have intentions..." but he says it like he's swallowing the "in" in "intentions". Almost like he's swallowing a chuckle and he can only say a part of the word seriously.

I know I do it when I find something hilarious and can't say it with a straight face.

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2008, 09:00 AM
It would be completely random for Ronon to be pulling Rodney's leg.

First, we got "Quarantine". Tension built, they kissed, nothing else was said about the matter. Then, in "Tracker", Ronon quite randomly volunteered to go with Jennifer on the mission.

Now, to then have him turn out to be pulling Rodney's leg at the end would've been quite random and illogical (then again, him at first claiming to not have any feelings for her was random as well).

After all, there was the kiss which was never spoken of again. Did the kiss just fall into a plot hole? Are they pretending it never happened? To have it never heard from again and then have the next time something concerning Kellex ever appear on-screen be him tricking Rodney about liking her... hmmm...

Sweetwaterspice
September 23rd, 2008, 10:00 AM
It would be completely random for Ronon to be pulling Rodney's leg.

First, we got "Quarantine". Tension built, they kissed, nothing else was said about the matter. Then, in "Tracker", Ronon quite randomly volunteered to go with Jennifer on the mission.

Now, to then have him turn out to be pulling Rodney's leg at the end would've been quite random and illogical (then again, him at first claiming to not have any feelings for her was random as well).

After all, there was the kiss which was never spoken of again. Did the kiss just fall into a plot hole? Are they pretending it never happened? To have it never heard from again and then have the next time something concerning Kellex ever appear on-screen be him tricking Rodney about liking her... hmmm...

Actually they never did kiss in Quarantine. It was an almost kiss twice. I could see how the writers would choose to have Ronon pulling Rodney's leg in this instance. We really haven't gotten much after the almost kisses in Quarantine. Had they truly kissed and then nothing said or addressed afterward...now that would be just plain wrong...LOL!

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 01:30 PM
the best part IMO was Rodney's last line - 'may the best man win'

"best man" ? this implies at least 2 men. appart from Ronon, who is the other man ? http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/alex666.gif

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 01:33 PM
the best part IMO was Rodney's last line - 'may the best man win'

"best man" ? this implies at least 2 men. appart from Ronon, who is the other man ? http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/alex666.gif

Oh, HA HA HA HA.......HA.

Rodney is twice the man Ronon is!

Take that!

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 01:41 PM
Oh, HA HA HA HA.......HA.

Rodney is twice the man Ronon is!

Take that!"twice the man" in only half the body ? bummer, that sure isn't gonna work out http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif


but it's ok - clearly you're rooting for mckay, so in deference to your admiration for him, I'll spare the Rod -_-

Pandora's_Box
September 23rd, 2008, 02:40 PM
"twice the man" in only half the body ? bummer, that sure isn't gonna work out http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif

Hey! It's not size that matters, but how you use it. Plus, what Rodney lacks in height and muscle mass, he makes up for in other ways.

I could make a comment about the size of his brain compared to Ronon, but that would be mean. So I won't say it.

But it's implied. :cool:



but it's ok - clearly you're rooting for mckay, so in deference to your admiration for him, I'll spare the Rod -_-

Eh, go for it. Take your best shot.

Rodney is so great, he practically defends himself. Plus, it's not like I go easy on Ronon.

SoulReaver
September 23rd, 2008, 02:53 PM
Rodney is so great, he practically defends himself.aye but judging by his fighting skills he doesn't defend himself very practically :/


Hey! It's not size that matters, but how you use it. Plus, what Rodney lacks in height and muscle mass, he makes up for in other ways.yes, in imagination. case in point, his line about the best man ^_^


I could make a comment about the size of his brain compared to Ronon, but that would be mean. So I won't say it.hey it's ok I'm good, fire at will. I'm certainly not a Chewie uh I mean Ronon fan, and it's not like I've been very kind in the past concerning the size of his noggin http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/hollytiger.gif
and tbh I like Rod a lot


it's just that I'd like to see him win, or at least hold his own, in a 1:1 fight. at least once :(
c'mon writers, you can do it. it's not like you guys are stingy when it comes to suspension of disbelief :(

Black Panther
September 24th, 2008, 12:16 AM
Carl Binder just did an interview on JM's blog about Tracker. He has answered some questions dealing with this particular subject.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/september-23-2008-carl-binder-up-close-and-personal-further-discussion-on-the-black-company-the-mailbag-and-a-behind-the-scenes-snippet/

Ive never felt that Ronon was great friends with Rodney but felt there was a great deal of respect there. However I did find some of the banter harsh and unnecessary towards Rodney and wondered where the respect had gone. Was there a concious decision to portray there banter this way or am i missing something here?”

Answer: There is respect between them. But they are two completely different personalities. Ronon has an abrupt, in your face quality. So if someone is slowing him down while he’s pursuing the man who’s kidnapped someone dear to him, he’s going to let him know. I did not intend for it to be unnecessarily harsh, just Ronon being Ronon.

Michelle writes: “Is Ronon really interested in Keller, or is he pulling Rodney’s chain?”

Answer: Or perhaps he thinks this won’t be much of a competition.

From my own interpretation of the scene coupled with Carl's answers I have to say Ronon was genuine and wasn't pulling Rodney's leg.

Ripple in Space
September 24th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Carl Binder just did an interview
Michelle writes: “Is Ronon really interested in Keller, or is he pulling Rodney’s chain?”

Answer: Or perhaps he thinks this won’t be much of a competition.

From my own interpretation of the scene coupled with Carl's answers I have to say Ronon was genuine and wasn't pulling Rodney's leg.

Good catch. That's probably what he's saying. I wonder if Momoa misread it or is just a bad actor, because...

Black Panther
September 24th, 2008, 11:02 AM
Good catch. That's probably what he's saying. I wonder if Momoa misread it or is just a bad actor, because...

According to Carl that is one of his favorite scenes, and he believes David and Jason played it perfectly. Perhaps people are trying to read too much into the scene, or reading too much into their relationship. To tell the truth, while I was very much aware Ronon was enjoying Rodney's insecurity, it never crossed my mind he was joking. His smile, in my opinion, was smug not teasing. Many people have pointed out it is common for Ronon to pick on Rodney. What they seem to be forgetting is that it was never a I am teasing my friend type. There was always a serious message in it, and that was Ronon doesn't think highly of Rodney. The same way Rodney doesn't think highly of Ronon. Even Jason Momoa in an interview brought out that while Ronon and Rodney have a level of respect for each other, because they are on the same team, they aren't really friends.

Fan-e-Gate
September 25th, 2008, 05:08 AM
No way is he pulling his leg. What a useless scene to put in at the end of an episode if its a joke.
I thought Ronon was smiling to himself because he was finally admitted to himself that he liked her. Maybe he was doing everything subconsciously and now that the question was asked, he thought about it and realised that he indeed did like her.

Lenas
September 25th, 2008, 07:43 AM
Thanks for posting this, Brian. That scene played exactly the way I imagined. Ronon was so messing with Rodney here. First, he seemed to be puzzled that Rodney would think he's interested in Keller and then when he realized that Rodney was asking because *he* was the one who was interested, it sort of looked like Ronon was trying to motivate Rodney into going for it.


Well said, exactly the way I see it.

And as for that interview with CB - of course he have to answer like that - to keep this "love triangle" alive. Naturally he can't reveal the outcome, to make the viewers lose interest.
Wich they already have by the way, the so called love triangel is just stupid and embarrassing:(

stclare
September 25th, 2008, 08:43 AM
Carl Binder just did an interview on JM's blog about Tracker. He has answered some questions dealing with this particular subject.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/september-23-2008-carl-binder-up-close-and-personal-further-discussion-on-the-black-company-the-mailbag-and-a-behind-the-scenes-snippet/

Ive never felt that Ronon was great friends with Rodney but felt there was a great deal of respect there. However I did find some of the banter harsh and unnecessary towards Rodney and wondered where the respect had gone. Was there a concious decision to portray there banter this way or am i missing something here?”

Answer: There is respect between them. But they are two completely different personalities. Ronon has an abrupt, in your face quality. So if someone is slowing him down while he’s pursuing the man who’s kidnapped someone dear to him, he’s going to let him know. I did not intend for it to be unnecessarily harsh, just Ronon being Ronon.

Michelle writes: “Is Ronon really interested in Keller, or is he pulling Rodney’s chain?”

Answer: Or perhaps he thinks this won’t be much of a competition.
From my own interpretation of the scene coupled with Carl's answers I have to say Ronon was genuine and wasn't pulling Rodney's leg.

See now, that I don't like because to me that shows a great deal of arrogance from Ronon and I never felt that he would be a smarmy guit over a girl. confident, yes, totaly, but to smirk over the geek thats, no just not liking that idea :o:(

which ever way this goes the one thing i was counting on was that all three characters would be teated with respect by the writers and not changed to fit the triangle. ill have to wait and see of that happens.

Black Panther
September 25th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Well said, exactly the way I see it.

And as for that interview with CB - of course he have to answer like that - to keep this "love triangle" alive. Naturally he can't reveal the outcome, to make the viewers lose interest.
Wich they already have by the way, the so called love triangel is just stupid and embarrassing:(

First, Ronon and Rodney are not friends. In fact judging by how they treat each other they only have a minimum amount of respect for each other. For this scenario to work Ronon would actually have to care about and approve of Rodney's interest in Jennifer.

Secondly, for there to be a "love triangle" there will have to be two people interested in the same person. If one of the two isn't truly interested then there is no "love triangle".

stclare I don't like it either, but I disagree about it changing Ronon. Just look at the scenario coupled with what we know about their relationship. We have two arrogant men from opposite sides of the spectrum, who only respect each other for their abilities and that they are on the same team, and who are now competing for the same woman. We already know Ronon likes to intimidate Rodney and thinks he is weak. The same way Rodney likes to insult Ronon and thinks he is stupid. So this is well within Ronon's character.

stclare
September 25th, 2008, 03:17 PM
First, Ronon and Rodney are not friends. In fact judging by how they treat each other they only have a minimum amount of respect for each other. For this scenario to work Ronon would actually have to care about and approve of Rodney's interest in Jennifer.

Secondly, for there to be a "love triangle" there will have to be two people interested in the same person. If one of the two isn't truly interested then there is no "love triangle".

stclare I don't like it either, but I disagree about it changing Ronon. Just look at the scenario coupled with what we know about their relationship. We have two arrogant men from opposite sides of the spectrum, who only respect each other for their abilities and that they are on the same team, and who are now competing for the same woman. We already know Ronon likes to intimidate Rodney and thinks he is weak. The same way Rodney likes to insult Ronon and thinks he is stupid. So this is well within Ronon's character.


I guess I just dont like to see it so obvious :o i didnt see rodney act arrogant over his feelings for Keller, he was more subdued at the end. subdued rodney not on my top list of things to see. i wonder if its there way to make him more mature....ponders

Black Panther
September 25th, 2008, 07:46 PM
I guess I just dont like to see it so obvious :o i didnt see rodney act arrogant over his feelings for Keller, he was more subdued at the end. subdued rodney not on my top list of things to see. i wonder if its there way to make him more mature....ponders

I know what you mean.:( As I was typing it I couldn't help but think that sounds harsh!:eek: Sadly it is true.:( As for Rodney I get the feeling his poor record with women doesn't leave much room for him to feel confident much less arrogant. It was heartbreaking to see his face when faced with Ronon's arrogance.:( The fact that he was mature enough to confront Ronon and wants to let Jennifer decide is a testament to his maturity. Also since he is rarely mature when dealing with women it shows he genuinely likes Jennifer. Thus it is a point for the McKeller ship.;)

Rac80
September 25th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Not a joke necessarily, but we have seen that Ronon and Rodney have an interesting relationship.

Personally, I haven't seen anything depicted on SGA that would lead me to believe that Ronon has an equal or greater depth of feeling for Jennifer than Rodney does. Rodney loves her for crying out loud.

And while I'm not claiming that Ronon isn't at all attracted to her, he could very well be playing up his "intentions" for her because he sees how uncomfortable Rodney is with the situation. After all, he really only said, "maybe". Not even a yes. And his tone was far too....playful is the only way I can think to phrase it...throughout that entire scene.

We've never seen Ronon played that way, which is why I find it interesting that the director and Momoa chose to lpay him like that this time around in this particular scene.

the only thing mckay is inlove with is himself! :rolleyes: the man is a total jerk around women... shall we remember how he always treated Sam? the way he was with poor Katie In quarantine? and complaining because he never got captured by "the hot alien chicks"? I will reiterate...HE ONLY LOVES HIMSELF!!!!!
our Jenn is a smart girl and has figured that out and so has Ronon. I predict it will be Jennifer and Ronon. He was not teasing, just being confident! :D

"twice the man" in only half the body ? bummer, that sure isn't gonna work out http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif


but it's ok - clearly you're rooting for mckay, so in deference to your admiration for him, I'll spare the Rod -_-

LOL I loved your comments but can only green you once so more mental green! :)

Mitchell82
September 26th, 2008, 10:08 AM
I am seriously hoping that's how TPTB meant it.
I'm not so sure. I think he does have feelings but maybe not as much as Rodney does.


But who knew our Rodney was so take charge? That entire last scene was Rodney confronting Ronon. Awesome!
Agreed that was really cool seeing him take charge like that.

SoulReaver
September 26th, 2008, 12:32 PM
LOL I loved your comments but can only green you once so more mental green! :)hey thanks lass

let's get married

Rac80
September 26th, 2008, 12:37 PM
hey thanks lass

let's get married

I'd love to laddie, but I need to ask my hubby first! ;) I always appreciate wit and you have plenty. :)

maxbo
September 26th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Carl Binder just did an interview on JM's blog about Tracker. He has answered some questions dealing with this particular subject.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/september-23-2008-carl-binder-up-close-and-personal-further-discussion-on-the-black-company-the-mailbag-and-a-behind-the-scenes-snippet/

Ive never felt that Ronon was great friends with Rodney but felt there was a great deal of respect there. However I did find some of the banter harsh and unnecessary towards Rodney and wondered where the respect had gone. Was there a concious decision to portray there banter this way or am i missing something here?”

Answer: There is respect between them. But they are two completely different personalities. Ronon has an abrupt, in your face quality. So if someone is slowing him down while he’s pursuing the man who’s kidnapped someone dear to him, he’s going to let him know. I did not intend for it to be unnecessarily harsh, just Ronon being Ronon.

Michelle writes: “Is Ronon really interested in Keller, or is he pulling Rodney’s chain?”

Answer: Or perhaps he thinks this won’t be much of a competition.

From my own interpretation of the scene coupled with Carl's answers I have to say Ronon was genuine and wasn't pulling Rodney's leg.

Carl Binder's response to that question is disappointing, but not surprising, given how little these writers seem to know these characters or care about consistent, logical characterization. His response is unfortunate because it totally negates the events of several episodes where we've seen Ronon's regard for Rodney, including The Shrine where Ronon was willing to take on a Wraith filled planet for Rodney's sake.

According to Carl, all of that is out the window because we're now supposed to believe that Ronon is so contemptuous of Rodney that he'll act like a total asswipe because he's confident that Rodney's no competition. Well, I'm not buying it, especally when I've seen no interest on Ronon's part for Keller since Quarantine - where he was written so out of character in order to force him with Keller that it was painful to watch.

Also, since when did Ronon become the kind of guy who would find it amusing to compete for a woman? I've never seen any indication that he views women as trophies to be won.

Crappy, plot-driven writing like this is what is making it easier for me to let SGA go. If this is what I can expect for the last episodes, then I may not even bother with the movie, especially if there is any possibility that this character-damaging triangle will be included.

Black Panther
September 26th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Carl Binder's response to that question is disappointing, but not surprising, given how little these writers seem to know these characters or care about consistent, logical characterization. His response is unfortunate because it totally negates the events of several episodes where we've seen Ronon's regard for Rodney, including The Shrine where Ronon was willing to take on a Wraith filled planet for Rodney's sake.

According to Carl, all of that is out the window because we're now supposed to believe that Ronon is so contemptuous of Rodney that he'll act like a total asswipe because he's confident that Rodney's no competition. Well, I'm not buying it, especally when I've seen no interest on Ronon's part for Keller since Quarantine - where he was written so out of character in order to force him with Keller that it was painful to watch.

Also, since when did Ronon become the kind of guy who would find it amusing to compete for a woman? I've never seen any indication that he views women as trophies to be won.

Crappy, plot-driven writing like this is what is making it easier for me to let SGA go. If this is what I can expect for the last episodes, then I may not even bother with the movie, especially if there is any possibility that this character-damaging triangle will be included.
Personally the only aspect I see this scene dealing with Ronon and Jennifer's relationship is that it confirms Ronon has intentions. The rest strictly deals with how Ronon views Rodney. So this isn't about Jennifer being a prize, but how Ronon doesn't think highly of Rodney.

Ronon and Rodney's relationship has never been written consistantly. On one hand we have moments like you mentioned where I could swear that there is a friendship there. Then we get moments were Rodney is insulting Ronon or Ronon deliberately intimidates Rodney and/or cruelly teases him. It is due to those moments that this scene isn't out of character. The problem is that those moments just don't mix well with their heart touching moments. Ronon and Rodney have a dysfunctional relationship. This scene isn't the only one to show this it is just more in your face about it.

By the way, Quarantine wasn't the only other ep to show Ronon's feelings for Jen it was just more obvious in that ep. Which is the way our PTB work. Once they establish there is a shared romantic interest between two characters that relationship is put in the background and only touched upon occasionally. The only reason they probably focused on Rodney and Jen recently is so they could develop their relationship to have this triangle.

stargatefan1966
September 26th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I loved the scene with Ronan and Rodney in the gym. With Ronan first saying he doesn't have any interest in Dr. Keller...then he does...like he was toying with McKey...I kept thinking.....why does this seem familiar....then it hit me....STAR WARS! Same thing....except I liked this one better....Ronan just kept grinning at Mckay...he was truly enjoying messing with him. Don't really know if he truly has any intentions for Dr. Keller but god it was fun watching him mess with McKay's head!!:ronan::mckay:

maxbo
September 27th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Personally the only aspect I see this scene dealing with Ronon and Jennifer's relationship is that it confirms Ronon has intentions. The rest strictly deals with how Ronon views Rodney. So this isn't about Jennifer being a prize, but how Ronon doesn't think highly of Rodney.

The bolded parts are why this "triangle" didn't work for me because they are not supported by fact. I've seen no indication that Ronon is interested in Keller - before or after Quarantine, yet we're now supposed to believe that he's been harboring "feelings" for her just because TPTB decided that they wanted a triangle.

That's horrible storytelling because it relies too much on twisting characters to suit the purpose and it relies too much on "telling" rather than "showing". This type of storytelling doesn't work for me because I'm not going to forget what I've seen over the years just because TPTB tells me to.

I also don't believe that Ronon doesn't think highly of Rodney - again TPTB are "telling" us where they want this storyline to go instead of building on canon.


Ronon and Rodney's relationship has never been written consistantly. On one hand we have moments like you mentioned where I could swear that there is a friendship there. Then we get moments were Rodney is insulting Ronon or Ronon deliberately intimidates Rodney and/or cruelly teases him. It is due to those moments that this scene isn't out of character. The problem is that those moments just don't mix well with their heart touching moments. Ronon and Rodney have a dysfunctional relationship. This scene isn't the only one to show this it is just more in your face about it.

I agree that Ronon and Rodney have an interesting relationship where they are more likely to insult each other than grudgingly compliment each other, however, I've never seen any proof that they despise each other. Apparently, you disagree, which is why your interpretation of that scene so different from mine.


By the way, Quarantine wasn't the only other ep to show Ronon's feelings for Jen it was just more obvious in that ep. Which is the way our PTB work. Once they establish there is a shared romantic interest between two characters that relationship is put in the background and only touched upon occasionally. The only reason they probably focused on Rodney and Jen recently is so they could develop their relationship to have this triangle.

That's news to me. What other episode did Ronon supposedly show his feelings for Jennifer? I've seen every episode (before Tracker) and I've never seen anything that supports this. That's why that scene in Quarantine was so jarring.

In contrast, I've seen a lot of scenes supporting those who ship other pairings, even though I don't ship any Stargate characters

Rac80
September 27th, 2008, 10:39 AM
That's news to me. What other episode did Ronon supposedly show his feelings for Jennifer? I've seen every episode (before Tracker) and I've never seen anything that supports this. That's why that scene in Quarantine was so jarring.

In contrast, I've seen a lot of scenes supporting those who ship other pairings, even though I don't ship any Stargate characters

I saw it in Tabula Rasa and Doppleganger, but then I have my "shippy" glasses on, You obviously don't see it the same way I do so you won't see those eps the same way I do.

Ripple in Space
September 27th, 2008, 02:20 PM
I hate the triangle, but between the most recent episode and interviews it seems to be very real. I think Momoa did a very poor job in the gym scene btw, because his whole demeanor was more playful than serious, which just doesn't mesh with him seriously loving Keller. Even if he had done a good job, I still dislike this entire angle. Joe/Shepp is anti-ship and so am I. I didn't even want the Jack/Sam thing to eat screen time and in their case BOTH have expressed deep emotion for each other.

maxbo
September 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I saw it in Tabula Rasa and Doppleganger, but then I have my "shippy" glasses on, You obviously don't see it the same way I do so you won't see those eps the same way I do.

Ahh, the shippy glasses, you're right I don't have those. So, with shippy glasses there was something between Ronon and Keller in Tabula Rasa - and I just realized that I also heard there was something between Rodney and Keller too. However, without the glasses, I missed it all and that's the way I liked it. Too bad TPTB decided to abandon eye-of-the-beholder ship because when they try to write ship, IMO, it's never good, which is why I'm dreading this triangle.


I hate the triangle, but between the most recent episode and interviews it seems to be very real. I think Momoa did a very poor job in the gym scene btw, because his whole demeanor was more playful than serious, which just doesn't mesh with him seriously loving Keller. Even if he had done a good job, I still dislike this entire angle. Joe/Shepp is anti-ship and so am I. I didn't even want the Jack/Sam thing to eat screen time and in their case BOTH have expressed deep emotion for each other.

I hate the triangle too and agree that based on the interviews it's suppose to exist, however, it's being handled every bit as badly as I feared. These writers do not understand how to write romance in an intelligent, adult, interesting way, but for some reason they seem believe they should keep trying.

I disagree that Jason Momoa did a bad job because according to Carl Binder that scene in Tracker played out exactly the way he wanted it to. Hence, my rant earlier about how I hate it when the writers show such a profound lack of understanding of their characters.

Based on what I've seen of Ronon over the years, the grinning, teasing Ronon in that scene is not a man who is serious about Keller, yet according to Binder, he is. I think they believe it would be funny to have Ronon taunting Rodney, just so we can see Rodney's poor, whobbie face over and over again. To hell with keeping Ronon in character - this is funnier, according to them.

Just when I thought this triangle couldn't get more ridiculous, TPTB prove me wrong.

Ripple in Space
September 27th, 2008, 10:14 PM
Ahh, the shippy glasses, you're right I don't have those. So, with shippy glasses there was something between Ronon and Keller in Tabula Rasa - and I just realized that I also heard there was something between Rodney and Keller too. However, without the glasses, I missed it all and that's the way I liked it. Too bad TPTB decided to abandon eye-of-the-beholder ship because when they try to write ship, IMO, it's never good, which is why I'm dreading this triangle.



I hate the triangle too and agree that based on the interviews it's suppose to exist, however, it's being handled every bit as badly as I feared. These writers do not understand how to write romance in an intelligent, adult, interesting way, but for some reason they seem believe they should keep trying.

I disagree that Jason Momoa did a bad job because according to Carl Binder that scene in Tracker played out exactly the way he wanted it to. Hence, my rant earlier about how I hate it when the writers show such a profound lack of understanding of their characters.

Based on what I've seen of Ronon over the years, the grinning, teasing Ronon in that scene is not a man who is serious about Keller, yet according to Binder, he is. I think they believe it would be funny to have Ronon taunting Rodney, just so we can see Rodney's poor, whobbie face over and over again. To hell with keeping Ronon in character - this is funnier, according to them.

Just when I thought this triangle couldn't get more ridiculous, TPTB prove me wrong.

You're right, it probably was written that way. You're also right than Ronon playfully grinning (which isn't especially common for him) at the notion of competing against his coworker for a woman he cares about makes absolutely no sense.

I do blame Momoa a little though, he should've objected. Though maybe it was a Torri/Weir-like situation, where she said that in the end, she was up in the writer's room often complaining that "Weir would never say/do this," but it apparently fell on deaf ears.

The only time I remember this bad of a characterization was Daniel in "Bad Guys." That ep made Shanks look like a terrible actor. I said so right away, but later Shanks addressed how disappointed he was in the ep since Daniel's mood swings were supposedly explained when they shot it, but many transitional scenes were cut and he ended up looking randomly schizophrenic.

But at least with Shanks we know he's a good actor. With Momoa we haven't had many real "acting scenes." And this one of him "competing" for the first woman he's loved since his wife's murder, should have had him doing something other than giggling.

maxbo
September 28th, 2008, 12:53 AM
You're right, it probably was written that way. You're also right than Ronon playfully grinning (which isn't especially common for him) at the notion of competing against his coworker for a woman he cares about makes absolutely no sense.

I do blame Momoa a little though, he should've objected. Though maybe it was a Torri/Weir-like situation, where she said that in the end, she was up in the writer's room often complaining that "Weir would never say/do this," but it apparently fell on deaf ears.

The only time I remember this bad of a characterization was Daniel in "Bad Guys." That ep made Shanks look like a terrible actor. I said so right away, but later Shanks addressed how disappointed he was in the ep since Daniel's mood swings were supposedly explained when they shot it, but many transitional scenes were cut and he ended up looking randomly schizophrenic.

But at least with Shanks we know he's a good actor. With Momoa we haven't had many real "acting scenes." And this one of him "competing" for the first woman he's loved since his wife's murder, should have had him doing something other than giggling.

But, Jason Momoa did object to this. He objected quite vocally and in more than one interview. He made it clear that Ronon wouldn't be interested in Keller because she's not his type and he also believes that Ronon and Rodney wouldn't be competing for the same women. Unfortunately, his opinions weren't taken into consideration.

I agree that Jason M. hasn't had as much to sink his acting chops into as have David H and Michael Shanks, but from what I've seen he's every bit as talented because he's had to work harder to make his scenes work, since he's not one of the writers' favorites.

No, this mess we're seeing with this badly written, poorly thought out triangle is not Jason's fault, it's the writers fault. They don't care about whether fans of these characters find their actions believeable, because for them, it's all about their immature vision of how relationships work.

What's even sadder about this high-school musical view of relationships is that the reason why they said they were giving Rodney yet another romance is because they wanted to explore seeing Rodney in a mature relationship. For some reason, they didn't believe his relationship with Katie Brown was mature, but think this high-school foolishness is.

Amazing.

elliecat
September 28th, 2008, 01:19 AM
But, Jason Momoa did object to this. He objected quite vocally and in more than one interview. He made it clear that Ronon wouldn't be interested in Keller because she's not his type and he also believes that Ronon and Rodney wouldn't be competing for the same women. Unfortunately, his opinions weren't taken into consideration.

I agree that Jason M. hasn't had as much to sink his acting chops into as have David H and Michael Shanks, but from what I've seen he's every bit as talented because he's had to work harder to make his scenes work, since he's not one of the writers' favorites.

No, this mess we're seeing with this badly written, poorly thought out triangle is not Jason's fault, it's the writers fault. They don't care about whether fans of these characters find their actions believeable, because for them, it's all about their immature vision of how relationships work.

What's even sadder about this high-school musical view of relationships is that the reason why they said they were giving Rodney yet another romance is because they wanted to explore seeing Rodney in a mature relationship. For some reason, they didn't believe his relationship with Katie Brown was mature, but think this high-school foolishness is.
Amazing.

That's what I don't get either, I just can't see this as being a 'mature' relationship at all. Are they seriously trying to tell us that he has more chance of a serious relationship with Keller than Katie after the way she is shamelessly leading both Ronon and Rodney on at the moment?! :S Dosn't sound too mature to me!

Anyway, I for one would not want to see Rodney in a serious relationship, because that's just not Rodney to me and far too OOC. I know you have to have growth and everything for your characters, but it just changes the loveable character too much imo that I liked in the first place.

I don't know, I just think that this season and some of last that the characters have all changed, but not in a good way, I just don't recognize them sometimes and I like character driven shows, I think i'm in the wrong place atm! ;)

maxbo
September 28th, 2008, 01:50 AM
That's what I don't get either, I just can't see this as being a 'mature' relationship at all. Are they seriously trying to tell us that he has more chance of a serious relationship with Keller than Katie after the way she is shamelessly leading both Ronon and Rodney on at the moment?! :S Dosn't sound too mature to me!

Anyway, I for one would not want to see Rodney in a serious relationship, because that's just not Rodney to me and far too OOC. I know you have to have growth and everything for your characters, but it just changes the loveable character too much imo that I liked in the first place.

I don't know, I just think that this season and some of last that the characters have all changed, but not in a good way, I just don't recognize them sometimes and I like character driven shows, I think i'm in the wrong place atm! ;)

TPTB's lack of understanding of how to write mature relationships is why I wish they would stop trying. They lack the ability to keep the characters *in-character* when they attempt ship, which defeats the purpose of ship.

If you have to change the characters to make ship work, then you're doing something wrong. And, this triangle is turning out to be as stomach-turning as I expected because Ronon is unrecognizable, Rodney is too desparate and pathetic and Keller comes across as either a tease or as someone with Alzheimers because she doesn't appear to remember that Rodney supposedly loves her.

And, the most painful thing about this mess is that the respect, trust and caring that Rodney and Ronon have built up over the years is gone. All because the winners in the back room thought it would be fun to write a triangle even though they admitted that they have no idea how it should end.

The only good thing about this mess is that there won't be a season 6 to further destroy these characters.

elliecat
September 28th, 2008, 01:59 AM
TPTB's lack of understanding of how to write mature relationships is why I wish they would stop trying. They lack the ability to keep the characters *in-character* when they attempt ship, which defeats the purpose of ship.

If you have to change the characters to make ship work, then you're doing something wrong. And, this triangle is turning out to be as stomach-turning as I expected because Ronon is unrecognizable, Rodney is too desparate and pathetic and Keller comes across as either a tease or as someone with Alzheimers because she doesn't appear to remember that Rodney supposedly loves her.

And, the most painful thing about this mess is that the respect, trust and caring that Rodney and Ronon have built up over the years is gone. All because the winners in the back room thought it would be fun to write a triangle even though they admitted that they have no idea how it should end.

The only good thing about this mess is that there won't be a season 6 to further destroy these characters.

Yep, it really does feel forced to me, if you have to force it and change things around then just leave it! Things should happen more naturally than this, but I really don't recognize Ronon or Rodney whenever there's any love triangle business going on, and I hate that!

I fear that come the end of this season the Ronon and Rodney that we did know will no longer exist at all. One of them will be with Keller (poor Rodney I fear) and the other will be shown to be moping over her. And for me, that's just not them at all. Like you said, thank god it's all ending soon, because it's very hard to watch for me at the moment!

Ripple in Space
September 28th, 2008, 09:23 AM
But, Jason Momoa did object to this. He objected quite vocally and in more than one interview. He made it clear that Ronon wouldn't be interested in Keller because she's not his type and he also believes that Ronon and Rodney wouldn't be competing for the same women. Unfortunately, his opinions weren't taken into consideration.

I agree that Jason M. hasn't had as much to sink his acting chops into as have David H and Michael Shanks, but from what I've seen he's every bit as talented because he's had to work harder to make his scenes work, since he's not one of the writers' favorites.

No, this mess we're seeing with this badly written, poorly thought out triangle is not Jason's fault, it's the writers fault. They don't care about whether fans of these characters find their actions believeable, because for them, it's all about their immature vision of how relationships work.

What's even sadder about this high-school musical view of relationships is that the reason why they said they were giving Rodney yet another romance is because they wanted to explore seeing Rodney in a mature relationship. For some reason, they didn't believe his relationship with Katie Brown was mature, but think this high-school foolishness is.

Amazing.

I didn't realize that *objection retracted*.

I think Rodney's characterization in this "triangle" is true enough to his character, I just don't like it. And I wouldn't say Keller's leading them on, she's just friendly. It's just not a good plot, even the dreaded Pete Shanahan plot on SG-1 was better than this because it showed some adult feelings exchanged between Sam, Jack, Jacob & Pete. In this Rodney had two amazing scenes (one in an alt. reality...), but he has enough good scenes anyway, and like Momoa apparently indicated, this is butchering Ronon's character.

nx01a
September 28th, 2008, 11:36 AM
I was surprised Ronon didn't crush Rodney's hand during the shake.:P
I believe Ronon was toying with Rodney during the "Wait. What do you mean by...?" comments, but not about his interest in Keller.
The whole final scene makes it all about them and what they want, and it's kinda adolescent. Please let Keller not be interested in either of them.

Rac80
September 30th, 2008, 08:26 AM
But, Jason Momoa did object to this. He objected quite vocally and in more than one interview. He made it clear that Ronon wouldn't be interested in Keller because she's not his type and he also believes that Ronon and Rodney wouldn't be competing for the same women. Unfortunately, his opinions weren't taken into consideration.

I agree that Jason M. hasn't had as much to sink his acting chops into as have David H and Michael Shanks, but from what I've seen he's every bit as talented because he's had to work harder to make his scenes work, since he's not one of the writers' favorites.

No, this mess we're seeing with this badly written, poorly thought out triangle is not Jason's fault, it's the writers fault. They don't care about whether fans of these characters find their actions believeable, because for them, it's all about their immature vision of how relationships work.

What's even sadder about this high-school musical view of relationships is that the reason why they said they were giving Rodney yet another romance is because they wanted to explore seeing Rodney in a mature relationship. For some reason, they didn't believe his relationship with Katie Brown was mature, but think this high-school foolishness is.

Amazing.

in order for mckay to have a mature relationship, he would actually HAVE to mature... I simply don't see that happening!

nx01a
September 30th, 2008, 03:04 PM
Rodney's matured several times, like Tao and The Shrine, not to mention coming out of a previous relationship. Hey, why have a reset button if you don't use it, right?

aboleyn24
September 30th, 2008, 03:34 PM
I have a slightly different take on the scene, which I loved by the way. I think that yes Ronon is interested, but not necessarily at the same level Rodney is. Just because you are interested (attracted) to someone doesn't make it love.

Before I got married I dated. I wasn't in love with every man I went on a date with. Or every man I would have liked to go on a date with. Interested is just that an interest in someone.

I think that Rodney on the other hand has far deeper feelings for Keller, at least so he said in The Shrine.

So Ronon's grin I think was based on Rodney's discomfort. Yes I think that Ronon might have been in a way teasing him but I don't think it was malicious. I don't think he realizes how much Rodney already feels towards her ( I am not even getting into whether or not that is feasible, thats for another discussion).

Perhaps the whole idea of both of them competing for the same woman amused him. Maybe Rodney's way of coming right out and asking tickled him. Again this is with the idea that Ronon isn't as serious in his "intentions" as Rodney.

That was how the scene played for me.

Infinite-Possibilities
September 30th, 2008, 09:37 PM
There was another way of looking at the scene, and it's infact the initial way I thought of it. It seemed like he had a bit of a sort of mischievous smirk on his face that could be interpreted (correctly too) as possibly confidence or "jest". But it never struck me as a mean spirited smile at all. And both of those options seem to have at least a little bit of unkindness behind them emotionally. It struck me as perhaps it was a friendly smile to Rodney to ease the tension because he respected him for coming forward with the issue an bringing it to light openly rather than letting it poison their friendship from the dark.

mellow yellow
October 1st, 2008, 05:15 PM
There was another way of looking at the scene, and it's infact the initial way I thought of it. It seemed like he had a bit of a sort of mischievous smirk on his face that could be interpreted (correctly too) as possibly confidence or "jest". But it never struck me as a mean spirited smile at all. And both of those options seem to have at least a little bit of unkindness behind them emotionally. It struck me as perhaps it was a friendly smile to Rodney to ease the tension because he respected him for coming forward with the issue an bringing it to light openly rather than letting it poison their friendship from the dark.

That was my take on it too.

Black Panther
October 2nd, 2008, 09:48 PM
Sorry for not responding earlier RL got in the way.


The bolded parts are why this "triangle" didn't work for me because they are not supported by fact. I've seen no indication that Ronon is interested in Keller - before or after Quarantine, yet we're now supposed to believe that he's been harboring "feelings" for her just because TPTB decided that they wanted a triangle.

That's horrible storytelling because it relies too much on twisting characters to suit the purpose and it relies too much on "telling" rather than "showing". This type of storytelling doesn't work for me because I'm not going to forget what I've seen over the years just because TPTB tells me to.

I also don't believe that Ronon doesn't think highly of Rodney - again TPTB are "telling" us where they want this storyline to go instead of building on canon.



I agree that Ronon and Rodney have an interesting relationship where they are more likely to insult each other than grudgingly compliment each other, however, I've never seen any proof that they despise each other. Apparently, you disagree, which is why your interpretation of that scene so different from mine.



That's news to me. What other episode did Ronon supposedly show his feelings for Jennifer? I've seen every episode (before Tracker) and I've never seen anything that supports this. That's why that scene in Quarantine was so jarring.

In contrast, I've seen a lot of scenes supporting those who ship other pairings, even though I don't ship any Stargate characters

One thing I want to make clear is your interpretation of their relationship was my original interpretation as well. I never even considered it a possibility until Jason's interview. My first reaction was to deny it. That was until I looked over the seasons and realized that was a valid interpretation. Still I hoped this wasn't the way tptb thought of their relationship. Judging by the way they are handling the love triangle and Carl's interview I can only assume that is what they were trying to make their relationship out to be.:mad:

As for that eps that show Ronon and Jen's progressing relationship. I am not a Jen shipper. So I don't know how qualified I am to do this so please bear with me. Before Quarantine there were quite a few of Ronon and Jen scenes. Granted they weren't really shippy, but there was enough of them to make me wonder what was the point in pairing them together so often. We find out in Quarantine that the reason he wasn't that close to Jennifer before hand was because he thought she was weak. So perhaps the point was for Ronon to get to know Jen better. As for after Quarantine the ep that stands out to me the most was The Seed. In that ep Ronon was the first to volunteer to test the cure upon himself and to get the cure to her. Then we see him nearly die due to his impatience to get to her and give her the cure.

BTW it is not that tptb don't understand their characters it is that our interpretations were wrong. Since they are the people who created these characters it is a safe bet they know them better than us.

maxbo
October 3rd, 2008, 04:12 PM
As for that eps that show Ronon and Jen's progressing relationship. I am not a Jen shipper. So I don't know how qualified I am to do this so please bear with me. Before Quarantine there were quite a few of Ronon and Jen scenes. Granted they weren't really shippy, but there was enough of them to make me wonder what was the point in pairing them together so often. We find out in Quarantine that the reason he wasn't that close to Jennifer before hand was because he thought she was weak. So perhaps the point was for Ronon to get to know Jen better. As for after Quarantine the ep that stands out to me the most was The Seed. In that ep Ronon was the first to volunteer to test the cure upon himself and to get the cure to her. Then we see him nearly die due to his impatience to get to her and give her the cure.

Regarding The Seed, are you saying that you don't believe Ronon would have done that for anyone else? If so, then I strongly disagree because Ronon has never hesitated to put his life on the line for anyone in Atlantis. He even said as much to Sam last season.


BTW it is not that tptb don't understand their characters it is that our interpretations were wrong. Since they are the people who created these characters it is a safe bet they know them better than us.

No, it's not a safe bet that they understand their characters better than the audience and I'm not willing to give them a pass just because they created these characters. No, I expect these men to behave like professional writers and not like newbies writing bad fanfic. I expect them to have character bibles for each character and then work from those when crafting storylines.

Our interpretations are only wrong because TPTB have an appalling tendency to change their characters to feed their plots. That's not understanding their characters - that's called not giving a damn about their characters because they only see them in terms of which ones are their favorites.

Unfortunately, their favorite characters get the same type of inconsistent writing as those not as favored. The only difference is that the favorites get a lot more screentime in which to be inconsistently written.

Ripple in Space
October 3rd, 2008, 08:49 PM
Regarding The Seed, are you saying that you don't believe Ronon would have done that for anyone else? If so, then I strongly disagree because Ronon has never hesitated to put his life on the line for anyone in Atlantis. He even said as much to Sam last season.



No, it's not a safe bet that they understand their characters better than the audience and I'm not willing to give them a pass just because they created these characters. No, I expect these men to behave like professional writers and not like newbies writing bad fanfic. I expect them to have character bibles for each character and then work from those when crafting storylines.

Our interpretations are only wrong because TPTB have an appalling tendency to change their characters to feed their plots. That's not understanding their characters - that's called not giving a damn about their characters because they only see them in terms of which ones are their favorites.

Unfortunately, their favorite characters get the same type of inconsistent writing as those not as favored. The only difference is that the favorites get a lot more screentime in which to be inconsistently written.

I think the "character" is created by the writers, directors and actors. The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.

Black Panther
October 3rd, 2008, 11:40 PM
Regarding The Seed, are you saying that you don't believe Ronon would have done that for anyone else? If so, then I strongly disagree because Ronon has never hesitated to put his life on the line for anyone in Atlantis. He even said as much to Sam last season.

No, I am merely stating that the way he did it was significant. Granted Ronon has always been a bit reckless but he doesn't act this, dare I say, stupid except when wraith are involved, a person he cared about betrayed him, or someone who is important to him is in danger. The only other time he acted like this without the cause being one of the previously mentioned exceptions is in the beginning when he was adjusting to living on Atlantis. Though wraith don't affect him like they used to anymore. Either then that he has proven himself to be a clear thinking warrior capable of some semblance of self-control. In this ep we have him jumping to do anything that has the potential to save Jen. He couldn't even give the others five minutes to think of a better plan before he started shooting and chopping. It shows how important Jen has become to him. Besides nothing has been stated or showed that prove his feelings have changed. So as viewers we have no choice but to believe he still feels the same.


No, it's not a safe bet that they understand their characters better than the audience and I'm not willing to give them a pass just because they created these characters. No, I expect these men to behave like professional writers and not like newbies writing bad fanfic. I expect them to have character bibles for each character and then work from those when crafting storylines.

Our interpretations are only wrong because TPTB have an appalling tendency to change their characters to feed their plots. That's not understanding their characters - that's called not giving a damn about their characters because they only see them in terms of which ones are their favorites.

Unfortunately, their favorite characters get the same type of inconsistent writing as those not as favored. The only difference is that the favorites get a lot more screentime in which to be inconsistently written.

Your operating under the assumption that they are changing their characters. We have no idea what their intentions were. We may have been interpreting the scenes they shared incorrectly, or tptb did a poor job of showing what they wanted their relationship to be all along. For all we know this is what they planned all along. Neither of us have proof to the contrary.


I think the "character" is created by the writers, directors and actors. The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.

No nothing is clear. You are guessing at what Jason's intent was. You truly don't know.

maxbo
October 4th, 2008, 03:14 AM
I think the "character" is created by the writers, directors and actors. The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.

I agree that the creation of a character is the collaboration of writer/actor/director. That's why I find it so unsettling when writers change directions for a character on a whim because it takes me out of the storyline and leads to an unacceptable disconnect for me.

This is what happened in Tracker because Carl Binder said that Momoa played that scene exactly the way he (Carl Binder) believed it should be played, which is why I've been so critical about how little these writers appear to care about their characters.

There are ways to dramatically change directions for characters that can work and work well, but writers can't just pull these changes out of their butts to do so. No matter how dramatic the change, there has to be some existing facts to build on. Unfortunately, I don't see that with these writers. There doesn't seem to be any sense of direction other than which characters they want to write for more.

Even though I knew the writers wouldn't do a good job with this triangle, I was still holding out hope that they would at least try to keep the characters 'in-character' while crafting this storyline. Unfortunately, their lack of care has me feeling that I don't know, or care, about these characters. That's not good storytelling.



No, I am merely stating that the way he did it was significant. Granted Ronon has always been a bit reckless but he doesn't act this, dare I say, stupid except when wraith are involved, a person he cared about betrayed him, or someone who is important to him is in danger. The only other time he acted like this without the cause being one of the previously mentioned exceptions is in the beginning when he was adjusting to living on Atlantis. Though wraith don't affect him like they used to anymore. Either then that he has proven himself to be a clear thinking warrior capable of some semblance of self-control. In this ep we have him jumping to do anything that has the potential to save Jen. He couldn't even give the others five minutes to think of a better plan before he started shooting and chopping. It shows how important Jen has become to him. Besides nothing has been stated or showed that prove his feelings have changed. So as viewers we have no choice but to believe he still feels the same.

So you don't believe he would have done that for anyone else? You believe that if it had been Teyla, Sheppard, Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, etc, that he wouldn't have cared as much - wouldn't have tried as hard? Based on what? When have we ever seen Ronon not do anything in his power for his team and for Atlantis?

I saw those scenes with Keller as more about giving Keller more screen time than anything else because Keller had a lot of screentime in general. If TPTB were truly going for ship moments then they did a lousy job, IMO, because I was blindsided by Quarantine. I saw more so-called ship moments between Ronon and Teyla, Ronon and Sheppard, and even Ronon and McKay.


Your operating under the assumption that they are changing their characters. We have no idea what their intentions were. We may have been interpreting the scenes they shared incorrectly, or tptb did a poor job of showing what they wanted their relationship to be all along. For all we know this is what they planned all along. Neither of us have proof to the contrary.

I'm not assuming anything because they *are* changing the characters and I'm not going to buy into these changes just because the writers made them. I detest that kind of lazy writing and will not give it a pass. If they wanted this triangle then they should have given it more thought and figured out how to write it so that the characters were recognizable to me.

What's the point of looking forward to seeing these characters in future storylines if they're going to be changed for the storyline?

Lahela
October 4th, 2008, 03:19 AM
No nothing is clear. You are guessing at what Jason's intent was. You truly don't know.

It's probably a fairly safe guess, given the number of times he's stated how much he dislikes the ship.

Black Panther
October 4th, 2008, 11:28 PM
So you don't believe he would have done that for anyone else? You believe that if it had been Teyla, Sheppard, Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, etc, that he wouldn't have cared as much - wouldn't have tried as hard? Based on what? When have we ever seen Ronon not do anything in his power for his team and for Atlantis?

I saw those scenes with Keller as more about giving Keller more screen time than anything else because Keller had a lot of screentime in general. If TPTB were truly going for ship moments then they did a lousy job, IMO, because I was blindsided by Quarantine. I saw more so-called ship moments between Ronon and Teyla, Ronon and Sheppard, and even Ronon and McKay.

John and Teyla most definitely! Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, or anyone else? Would he give his all to save them? Yes. Would he be completely irrational and reckless while doing it? No, he is not emotionally connected to them enough for it to cloud his judgement. Your also forgetting that before Quarantine he viewed Jennifer as a weakling who doesn't belong on Atlantis. A person who was only worth saving because she is a member of the expedition, and Ronon isn't the type to abandon a person in need. After Quarantine they now have him fighting for her as if she is one of his most important people. Up there with John and Teyla. That is a significant change don't you think?


I'm not assuming anything because they *are* changing the characters and I'm not going to buy into these changes just because the writers made them. I detest that kind of lazy writing and will not give it a pass. If they wanted this triangle then they should have given it more thought and figured out how to write it so that the characters were recognizable to me.

What's the point of looking forward to seeing these characters in future storylines if they're going to be changed for the storyline?

Prove it. Prove that they are indeed changing the characters. Not just proving your interpretations wrong.


It's probably a fairly safe guess, given the number of times he's stated how much he dislikes the ship.

So you are saying he is deliberately sabotaging a scene. Just because he doesn't like who his character is being paired up with?:weiranime33: That goes against what Jason himself said. In the interview he admitted to not liking the pairing he also said he would be professional about it and play the scenes like they are supposed to be. Plus Carl said that Jason and David played the scene perfectly.

Ripple in Space
October 5th, 2008, 12:02 AM
No nothing is clear. You are guessing at what Jason's intent was. You truly don't know.

Then Momoa's just a terrible actor.

Lahela
October 5th, 2008, 12:09 AM
So you are saying he is deliberately sabotaging a scene. Just because he doesn't like who his character is being paired up with?:weiranime33: That goes against what Jason himself said. In the interview he admitted to not liking the pairing he also said he would be professional about it and play the scenes like they are supposed to be. Plus Carl said that Jason and David played the scene perfectly.

Oh for heaven's sake, tell me where I have ever said such an absurd thing! :rolleyes:

Of course he's going to be professional about it, but it's a love triangle, it is designed to divide opinion, to be ambiguous (whether or not they have achieved that is the topic of another conversation) so he's hardly going to play it in such a way that it is obvious whether or not he is being serious with Rodney. I'm just saying that given his outspoken objection to the ship, it would make it all the more likely that he would play it for ambiguity. I'm not claiming to know what he did, simply to highlight a possible interpretation.

maxbo
October 5th, 2008, 04:34 AM
John and Teyla most definitely! Rodney, Zelenka, Lorne, or anyone else? Would he give his all to save them? Yes. Would he be completely irrational and reckless while doing it? No, he is not emotionally connected to them enough for it to cloud his judgement. Your also forgetting that before Quarantine he viewed Jennifer as a weakling who doesn't belong on Atlantis. A person who was only worth saving because she is a member of the expedition, and Ronon isn't the type to abandon a person in need. After Quarantine they now have him fighting for her as if she is one of his most important people. Up there with John and Teyla. That is a significant change don't you think?

How was Ronon "irrational and reckless" in The Seed? He came across a road block, then stopped to ask what he should do next. When no one said anything, he said he would shoot. Then, when the others voiced their objections, he stopped again and asked if they had any better suggestions. When they didn't, he started shooting. So, how is that "irrational and reckless"?

I get that you see ship where I don't, but what you seem to be forgetting is that it wasn't just Keller who was in danger in the The Seed, it was all of Atlantis. When Ronon reached that road block he knew the stakes were too high for him to turn back, especially, when no one had any better suggestions. By your own admission, Ronon would help anyone in need and all of Atlantis was in need. Besides, if he failed he knew that someone else would put himself in danger and he didn't want that.


Prove it. Prove that they are indeed changing the characters. Not just proving your interpretations wrong.

Prove it? That's rather aggressive, but I'll answer anyway.

In addition to what they're currently doing to Ronon, two more recent examples of their changing the characters willy nilly are their recent characterizations of Zelenka and Sheppard.

Despite years of characterization to the contrary, suddenly, according to the writers, we're supposed to see Zelenka as a creepy guy that no one really likes and Sheppard is suddenly supposed to be a Mensa want-a-be who's lying about how he could have joined Mensa.

My WFT! reaction to each those changes is the same as my WTF! reaction to Ronon and Keller in Quarantine, Rodney and Keller in Trio/The Shrine and Teyla suddenly not being able to fight or use her Wraith mind link in The Queen. In each case, there wasn't enough build up to make those events believable to me.

I have other examples, but I'll stop there.


So you are saying he is deliberately sabotaging a scene. Just because he doesn't like who his character is being paired up with?:weiranime33: That goes against what Jason himself said. In the interview he admitted to not liking the pairing he also said he would be professional about it and play the scenes like they are supposed to be. Plus Carl said that Jason and David played the scene perfectly.


Oh for heaven's sake, tell me where I have ever said such an absurd thing! :rolleyes:

Of course he's going to be professional about it, but it's a love triangle, it is designed to divide opinion, to be ambiguous (whether or not they have achieved that is the topic of another conversation) so he's hardly going to play it in such a way that it is obvious whether or not he is being serious with Rodney. I'm just saying that given his outspoken objection to the ship, it would make it all the more likely that he would play it for ambiguity. I'm not claiming to know what he did, simply to highlight a possible interpretation.

Lahela, I agree your interpretation of Jason's take on his part in this storyline. He's clearly mentioned that he's going to play it the way the writers want him to, yet he also cares about his character so I can see him using what ever bit of wiggle room he has to try to salvage Ronon during this mess by playing his role as ambiguously as possible.

And, speaking of ambiguity, even the writers said that they have no idea where they're going with this triangle mess so if they don't know where it's going, then I don't blame Jason for using this ambiguity to his character's advantage.

Black Panther
October 28th, 2008, 02:03 AM
Yeah! My computer is back up and running! Let's see what I have missed.

Ripple in Space Then that is your opinion. I personally have no problem with the way Jason played that scene or interpreting it the way we are supposed to interpret it. This is your problem.


Oh for heaven's sake, tell me where I have ever said such an absurd thing! :rolleyes:

Of course he's going to be professional about it, but it's a love triangle, it is designed to divide opinion, to be ambiguous (whether or not they have achieved that is the topic of another conversation) so he's hardly going to play it in such a way that it is obvious whether or not he is being serious with Rodney. I'm just saying that given his outspoken objection to the ship, it would make it all the more likely that he would play it for ambiguity. I'm not claiming to know what he did, simply to highlight a possible interpretation.

You may not have intended it but it was implied. Ripple in Space said...

The writers may want Ronon to have played the scene one way, but Momoa clearly played it lightheartedly.
I reminded RIS that he doesn't know what was Jason's intent. You said in reply...

It's probably a fairly safe guess, given the number of times he's stated how much he dislikes the ship.
So what would you call it when an actor, due to his dislike of a ship, plays a scene in a way that it alters the original intent of the scene.

The only thing ambiguous about a love triangle is who will the person in the middle choose. Not if the people on the opposing sides are interested in the person in the middle. If one of the people on the opposing sides are not truly interested then it isn't a love triangle.


How was Ronon "irrational and reckless" in The Seed? He came across a road block, then stopped to ask what he should do next. When no one said anything, he said he would shoot. Then, when the others voiced their objections, he stopped again and asked if they had any better suggestions. When they didn't, he started shooting. So, how is that "irrational and reckless"?

I get that you see ship where I don't, but what you seem to be forgetting is that it wasn't just Keller who was in danger in the The Seed, it was all of Atlantis. When Ronon reached that road block he knew the stakes were too high for him to turn back, especially, when no one had any better suggestions. By your own admission, Ronon would help anyone in need and all of Atlantis was in need. Besides, if he failed he knew that someone else would put himself in danger and he didn't want that.

Let's take a look at that scene shall we? He asked what he should do and waited a total of 7 seconds for a reply. He then said, "Screw it, I'm gonna make a hole." As he pulls out his gun and charges it Carson tells him not to do it and starts to explain why. Ronon interrupting, "Does anyone have any better ideas?" He then waits a total of 15 seconds. John in the meantime, knowing there is no way they're going to stop him, comes up with an impromptu suicidal plan of his own to save both Jen and Ronon. Ronon bluntly says there is no other way through. Woosley briefly warns him that if he starts shooting he is going to have to move quickly. Ronon's reaction is to sarcasticly say, "Thanks for the advice!" He then starts shooting. The scene lasted for about half a minute in total. Yep, Ronon was completely rational and willing to let the others think up a plan.:rolleyes:

What you seem to be forgetting is that Jen was the only one in immediate danger. They had evacuated that part of the city. In fact it was interesting how in the end they made it practically all about saving her. As Woosley said they had another option and that was to kill Jennifer. The only way the others would be in danger is if they let this go too far.


Prove it? That's rather aggressive, but I'll answer anyway.

In addition to what they're currently doing to Ronon, two more recent examples of their changing the characters willy nilly are their recent characterizations of Zelenka and Sheppard.

Despite years of characterization to the contrary, suddenly, according to the writers, we're supposed to see Zelenka as a creepy guy that no one really likes and Sheppard is suddenly supposed to be a Mensa want-a-be who's lying about how he could have joined Mensa.

My WFT! reaction to each those changes is the same as my WTF! reaction to Ronon and Keller in Quarantine, Rodney and Keller in Trio/The Shrine and Teyla suddenly not being able to fight or use her Wraith mind link in The Queen. In each case, there wasn't enough build up to make those events believable to me.

I have other examples, but I'll stop there.

What did you expect me to say? You said...

they *are* changing the characters
You can't make such declarations with out proof.

I have to say out of all the examples you could have chosen the fact you chose these ones suprise me. Where was it said that Zelenka is a creepy guy that no one likes? The only people who have a problem with him are Sam and Jen and they barely knew him. As for Rodney he has never given him much respect plus he was turning it into a contest as to who Sam liked better. Again who said John is a Mensa want-a-be? Rodney was teasing John like usual. Daniel knows nothing about John. As for Zelenka he doesn't even know about it.

Were you paying attention in Quarantine? Ronon explained that until then he thought Jennifer was a weak person who didn't belong on Atlantis. Jen obviously didn't know how to handle Ronon. As they got to know each other they discovered a mutual attraction between them. What about that is difficult to understand? Was it the near kiss you have a problem with? Let me remind you that we have never before seen how Ronon would react when faced with the opportunity to get some action from a girl he is attracted to. As for Jen we had never seen her in any romantic situation before. What happened in Trio we weren't to take seriously. Jen was merely trying to help Rodney get some experience with reading women. She even admitted in The Shrine she didn't think of it as a real date. Though the fact that Rodney took it as such isn't surprising. As for his love declaration we know for a fact that Rodney likes to jump into things when it comes to women. The way he acted with Sam, the way he took Elizabeth's "We love you" as "I love you" and wanted to have dinner with her, and not to mention his sudden plans to propose to Katie are a testament to that. As for the ep that showed he was indeed interested in her before this is The Seed. His worry over her and doing things for her he normally wouldn't do. It was pretty clear he liked her. Again no where was it said Teyla couldn't use her wraith abilities. She simply didn't use them. The reasons for that were never explained, but that doesn't mean she couldn't use them. As for losing in the hand to hand combat with the wraith she has never been able to defeat a wraith that way. Steve defeated her with little difficulty in Suspicion. Even Ronon couldn't manage it in Sateda. We have yet to see a human capable of defeating a wraith in hand to hand combat.

The fact is it will be extremely difficult to prove they are indeed changing the characters. To prove such a thing you would have to prove that your interpretation of scene A is indeed what the writers intended and that they had indeed altered that fact in scene B. The only way to do that is if you have some way to know the writers intent or there is a factual change. You know like Rodney being capable of eating lemon chicken without any problem.

Lahela
October 28th, 2008, 09:52 AM
Y
So what would you call it when an actor, due to his dislike of a ship, plays a scene in a way that it alters the original intent of the scene.


I shall just roll my eyes in response because no matter what I say you are clearly intent on misinterpreting it :rolleyes:

maxbo
October 28th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Let's take a look at that scene shall we? He asked what he should do and waited a total of 7 seconds for a reply. He then said, "Screw it, I'm gonna make a hole." As he pulls out his gun and charges it Carson tells him not to do it and starts to explain why. Ronon interrupting, "Does anyone have any better ideas?" He then waits a total of 15 seconds. John in the meantime, knowing there is no way they're going to stop him, comes up with an impromptu suicidal plan of his own to save both Jen and Ronon. Ronon bluntly says there is no other way through. Woosley briefly warns him that if he starts shooting he is going to have to move quickly. Ronon's reaction is to sarcasticly say, "Thanks for the advice!" He then starts shooting. The scene lasted for about half a minute in total. Yep, Ronon was completely rational and willing to let the others think up a plan.:rolleyes:.

But, the others weren't thinking up a plan because they had no idea what to do and Ronon realized this.

Where you're basing your contention that Ronon was irrational on the shortness of this scene, I'm basing my contention that he wasn't irrational on his demeanor, which I saw as determined to complete his mission, but not out of control. I've seen Ronon out of control before and didn't see that Ronon here.


What you seem to be forgetting is that Jen was the only one in immediate danger. They had evacuated that part of the city. In fact it was interesting how in the end they made it practically all about saving her. As Woosley said they had another option and that was to kill Jennifer. The only way the others would be in danger is if they let this go too far.

No, Keller wasnt the only one in immediate danger because the one who had to get close enough to her to either save her or kill her would also be in immediate danger and there's no way Ronon would allow Rodney or Sheppard (in his weakened state) to volunteer for such a dangerous mission.



What did you expect me to say? You said...

You can't make such declarations with out proof.

How about taking the novel approach of "asking" me why I feel the way I do instead of demanding that I prove why I feel the way I do.


I have to say out of all the examples you could have chosen the fact you chose these ones suprise me. Where was it said that Zelenka is a creepy guy that no one likes? The only people who have a problem with him are Sam and Jen and they barely knew him. As for Rodney he has never given him much respect plus he was turning it into a contest as to who Sam liked better. Again who said John is a Mensa want-a-be? Rodney was teasing John like usual. Daniel knows nothing about John. As for Zelenka he doesn't even know about it.

The creepy Zelenka reference is a behind the scenes reference. Apparently, the writers have been wanting to add scenes like the Sam & Keller scenes for a while because they see Zelenka as a character that's not really liked. Well, that was news to me because if that was the writers' intent, then they missed the mark because I didn't and don't see it - despite Quarantine and Trio.

The John as the Mensa pretender was apparently mentioned in the Season 4 commentaries by one of the writers (Gero, I believe). Once again, I found myself wondering where that characterization came from because there has been nothing to support that Sheppard would give a damn about Mensa enough to lie about being able to become a member.


Were you paying attention in Quarantine? Ronon explained that until then he thought Jennifer was a weak person who didn't belong on Atlantis. Jen obviously didn't know how to handle Ronon. As they got to know each other they discovered a mutual attraction between them. What about that is difficult to understand? Was it the near kiss you have a problem with? Let me remind you that we have never before seen how Ronon would react when faced with the opportunity to get some action from a girl he is attracted to. As for Jen we had never seen her in any romantic situation before. What happened in Trio we weren't to take seriously. Jen was merely trying to help Rodney get some experience with reading women. She even admitted in The Shrine she didn't think of it as a real date. Though the fact that Rodney took it as such isn't surprising. As for his love declaration we know for a fact that Rodney likes to jump into things when it comes to women. The way he acted with Sam, the way he took Elizabeth's "We love you" as "I love you" and wanted to have dinner with her, and not to mention his sudden plans to propose to Katie are a testament to that. As for the ep that showed he was indeed interested in her before this is The Seed. His worry over her and doing things for her he normally wouldn't do. It was pretty clear he liked her. Again no where was it said Teyla couldn't use her wraith abilities. She simply didn't use them. The reasons for that were never explained, but that doesn't mean she couldn't use them. As for losing in the hand to hand combat with the wraith she has never been able to defeat a wraith that way. Steve defeated her with little difficulty in Suspicion. Even Ronon couldn't manage it in Sateda. We have yet to see a human capable of defeating a wraith in hand to hand combat.

Yes, I did pay attention to Quarantine and I came to a different conclusion - imagine that.

I find this entire triangle/duo or whatever it's suppose to be badly written and a waste of time. Where you saw Ronon and Keller becoming closer before this episode, I saw two characters who barely interacted before they were thrown together in Quarantine and then barely interacted after Quarantine until Tracker.

Although the writers took a bit more time with Rodney and Keller, they also failed to make that pairing believable to me because they moved much too fast with them.

I find your Teyla comment puzzling because if Teyla doesn't use her wraith abilities when expected, then I want to know why. Teyla's abilities have been an important part of the character since the beginning so I expect an explanation when the writers don't use them when it would be logical for them to do so.

As for the hand-to-hand fighting, no Teyla has never defeated a full-wraith in hand-to-hand combat (although she did snap a hybrid's neck in Misbegotten), however, she did better against Steve (when she was fully human) than she did in The Queen, which I found unsettling. If there was a reason for this, other than lazy writing, then I want to know what it was because it put a damper on my enjoyment of that episode. It appeared to be too convenient that Teyla suddenly couldn't fight at all and didn't have either the Queen's mind abilities or even her normal wraith abilties.


The fact is it will be extremely difficult to prove they are indeed changing the characters. To prove such a thing you would have to prove that your interpretation of scene A is indeed what the writers intended and that they had indeed altered that fact in scene B. The only way to do that is if you have some way to know the writers intent or there is a factual change. You know like Rodney being capable of eating lemon chicken without any problem.

It's not difficult for me to judge if the writers are changing the characters because I judge the characters in terms of their pattern of behavior over time. For instance, if their intent was to portray Zelenka as a creep, then they should have established this long before Quarantine & Trio and if they wanted to portray Sheppard as a Mensa want-a-be, then they should have made this clear long before Season 5. Otherwise, they should have left those ideas by the wayside and not tried to include them so late in the series.

With Teyla it appears that they don't want her to have wraith abilities this season - yet they've given no explanation why. That kind of change-at-will writing doesn't work for me, which is one reason why I'm not enjoying this season as much as I should.

Ragitsu
April 30th, 2010, 09:23 PM
I know this thread is a bit old, but I just had to comment: it is amazing how many people interpret the same scene in different ways. This is why I enjoy a good forum :ronan:.

maxrpg
July 7th, 2010, 01:40 AM
Hello,

Its rare that I re-watch an episode of stargate(any series) and hardly remember anything about it but ive just watched this one and its amazing..it was like watching it for the first time because I didnt remember any of it. The episode shows probably the best scene from the entire 5 series of atlantis of rodney kicking some wraith butt instead of just running away lol. Ok he did run away but he put up a blooming good fight concidering its rodney im talking about here lol. He even "stood up" to ronon at the end of the episode which again shows courage for rodney. I felt for ronon though when the runner led the wraith away through the stargate because you could see it in his eyes that he wanted to help the guy out.

This was a great episode and I recommend it to anyone planning on having an atlantis re-watch.

Alpaca
February 24th, 2013, 04:50 PM
I'm interpreting the scene differently than what a number of people said here. I expected him to ignore Rodney's outstretched hand but when he took it then smiled, I was a bit surprised. given his usual aloof I-don't-care-what-you-think attitude. However, I felt that smile was a genuine smile. It seems to me he still remembers that time when Rodney removed the scars on his back.

Also, I think these two characters are similar in the way that it takes a while for them to warm up to you, but when they do, they'll be true friends. They won't say it out loud to you, but you'll know when the going gets tough, they'll come and save you. I think that's how the relationship between the both of them are.