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GateWorld
September 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/513.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/513.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/513.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">INQUISITION</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 513</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
A new coalition of human worlds puts the Atlantis team on trial for their alleged crimes against the Pegasus Galaxy.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/513.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

jiklar
October 24th, 2008, 06:05 PM
I think this episode could have been done without the clips. If they were trying to get the fans to think about what the characters have done and if it was right I think they could have done it much better.

jenks
October 24th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Cigars = WIN

Vala_M
October 24th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Great for a clip show type of episode.

Vala,

Starsaber
October 24th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Loved Woolsey's Federation line.

I was wondering how long it'd be until they made some form of Star Trek reference in relation to him.

jelgate
October 24th, 2008, 06:11 PM
As far as clip show go this was not bad. Not great but not bad. But I guess I am a little biased. I'm a sucker when Stargate show political processes. Surprisingly Woosley is good diplomat. I think he could even rival Weir in that area. I think the worst thing about this episode was that Teyla, Ronon, and McKay were barely their. It was primarly a Sheppard and Woosley episode but still pretty mediocroe. I guess I would like some more varied clips. It seemed like they included the big episodes aka season premiers/finale and mid season two parters.

JeffKnight
October 24th, 2008, 06:11 PM
I really think Woolsey came into his own on this episode. He showed true leadership and the kind of loyalty and resolve to see his team through to "victory" even if it meant the IOA and its policies be damned. We even get to have SG-1 past come back when the judge referred to Woolsey thinking that human life was just a numbers game (SG-1 Season 7: Heroes) and he was visibly upset by this reference.

Very good for a clip/recap episode - especially since we got some MAJOR character development. This episode makes me hope we see Woolsey in the movies.

Murzin
October 24th, 2008, 06:11 PM
its a recap episode. where they breifly recap whats happened in the story so far.

you can skip it if you have watched all the previous epis or at least hte main ones.

but at least they laid to rest that these replicators are totally different tech than the MW ones.

executed pretty interestingly, but its still a recap epi.

not that impressive over all.

tombombadil
October 24th, 2008, 06:13 PM
i missed the first half of it. but the half i saw wasn't bad at all. woolsey saved the day......awesome.

prion
October 24th, 2008, 06:18 PM
the episode was okay. it was a clip episode, and they're always, well, just 'okay.' however, woolsey was the best part of it. finally got to do something!

jenks
October 24th, 2008, 06:18 PM
I'm not sure about the outcome. I liked the way they had to cheat their way out of it, but I didn't like the way that the guy who was voting solely on reason somehow managed to find them not guilty. Hopefully his reasoning was swayed by Woolsey's speech at the end, rather than him actually thinking what they are genuinely innocent.

Charon
October 24th, 2008, 06:21 PM
It's a shame; just as soon as we see the classic SG moments of being trapped with the deck stacked against them, a lead character becoming a joy to watch (kudos to Picardo) and even clip shows being less "clipy" , the end of this particular wormhole is just about here. :(

Briangate78
October 24th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Well this episode brought up some of the moral decisions made my Atlantis so it was good in that sense. But I don't think we need an episode like this to remind us of what Atlantis has been through and that they have taken a few steps back, made a lot of sacrificies, made enemies and allies. But in the end they should be able to have a Pegasus galaxy free of most threats. As per the episode itself was not my cup of tea, and is the lowest rated ep since "Whispers", imo. Well the last 3 eps were excellent, one of them likely being one of the best two-parters of the series, last week's had very strong character development. So you cannot love them all. The next episode looks really good, btw, and will likely will complete yet another story arc of SGA. Well cannot love them all. This one was better than Whispers, imo. That ain't saying much.

BTW, do not tune into SCI FI next Friday, Ghost Plumbers is airing their horrible live special, imo and will likely require some true SCI FI fans to gouge out their eyes with lemons.

*You've been warned, Atlantis returns in 2 weeks*

JeffKnight
October 24th, 2008, 06:24 PM
I'm not sure about the outcome. I liked the way they had to cheat their way out of it, but I didn't like the way that the guy who was voting solely on reason somehow managed to find them not guilty. Hopefully his reasoning was swayed by Woolsey's speech at the end, rather than him actually thinking what they are genuinely innocent.

I think some of it is that the argument that Atlantis can't be held responsible for the actions of things outside their control. Yes we woke the Wraith, yes we created Michael, yes we rewrote the base code - but, we weren't malicious in our intent, and we have been trying to fix these mistakes. Then there's the fact that everything stems back to the ancients, and the judges admitted that they couldn't take out their anger on them, so they put Atlantis in the cross-hairs. The simple fact that this was a witch hunt could also have swayed the judge.

jenks
October 24th, 2008, 06:29 PM
I think some of it is that the argument that Atlantis can't be held responsible for the actions of things outside their control. Yes we woke the Wraith, yes we created Michael, yes we rewrote the base code - but, we weren't malicious in our intent, and we have been trying to fix these mistakes. Then there's the fact that everything stems back to the ancients, and the judges admitted that they couldn't take out their anger on them, so they put Atlantis in the cross-hairs. The simple fact that this was a witch hunt could also have swayed the judge.

"The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions"

I don't think anyone would condemn them for acting maliciously, but they've certainly acted irresponsibly at times, and many people are dead, regardless of what their intentions were.

Vala_M
October 24th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Very nice episode. The first clip show in Atlantis I believe. At least they made it better than SG-1's.

The episode of "Cor-Ai" of SG-1 came to mind here except this was a little different.

When are they going to learn that mysterious meeting places usually mean that you'll get kidnapped?

I find it quite insulting that people like that would blame Atlantis instead of thanking them. Especially since the opinion of the villages of the galaxy has been positive in the past.

The main thing that bugged me about this episode is how could primitive people build a castle-like building underground and burn fires letalone breathe in it without any kind of ventillation. Or did the Genii help them?

Not much to say about this one since most of it was a clip show. But Woolsey's actions looking for the team and detaining that member of the coalition was a good move. I'm so tired of the pitty moves that end up making leaders let the bad guys go.

I was worried when Woolsey first went to that planet. It must be obvious by now that all trials in village-setting planets are rigged. Especially with a non-impartial member.

So what is the Genii's new problem? Didn't they become allies with Atlantis or was that because they had to at the time?

I like that we got to see Woolsey play the defence attorney in this episode. I always felt like he was capable of such things.

Very nice when he leveled the playing field in the crooked trial. Too bad about his father's watch though.

I was very relieved that they ended up letting the team go as I kept thinking that they were going to have to fight their way out of that one. How do those primitive villagers have any info at all on the Asurans or the Todd alliance?

The ending bothered me as it is the first time that I know of in Stargate history that tobacco use has been portrayed by the "good guys" - that felt out of place in my opinion.

I don't know if most of you are against that or in favor of it or don't care but I think it's never good when any TV show portrays the use of tobacco positively, even if it's just a victory cigar? I just can't wait for the questions about whether or not Woolsey and Sheppard smoke or not.

Vala,

Ruffles
October 24th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Clip show. Not what I was expecting. I will say that the clip shows SGA has done have been fabulous. I'm reminding myself that TPTB didn't know SGA was canceled when they wrote and filmed this.

Good stuff:
* the judges - really well acted by all 3. The accusations were well thought out (though I wonder where they got some of their info). I especially enjoyed the woman judge. She vibrated with rage (which I completely understand based on her experiences).

* the entire concept - the expedition has had a decided effect on the galaxy. I loved that it was recognized.

* mention of Atlantis' trade relations in the galaxy. Always good to have affirmation that those kinds of things are still occuring and important.

* Lorne! Always good to see him.

* Woolsey - I love him more every time I see him. Self-assured, strong, and not above bribery.

* Sheppard - forced to face things he already blames himself for. JF did a great job here.

* Ronon and Teyla's response - they see the accusations from a different perspective. I would have really loved to hear Teyla's response to the charges.

* political machinations headed by the Genii - you just can't trust anyone in Pegasus. :D

* the ending balcony scene - AWESOME


Quibbles
* clip show

* hardly any of the other team members. It would have been nice to see all of them have to answer


This was a terrific concept that could have been so much more - a public trial where victims of the different atrocities testified, a heavier sense of danger, responses from all the team. That being said, this was an excellent clip show, and one that could lead to some interesting future interactions in the galaxy.



Cigars = WIN

Indeed. My love knows no bounds for that scene.


Loved Woolsey's Federation line.

I was wondering how long it'd be until they made some form of Star Trek reference in relation to him.

Hee! That was perfect. And Rodney: "Without the ships!"

TheRandomOne
October 24th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Very nice episode. The first clip show in Atlantis I believe

Letters From Pegasus can count as a clip show

Shan Bruce Lee
October 24th, 2008, 06:39 PM
They gave Woolsey Obama's resume' lol

The formation of the "Pegasus Alliance" (or w/e they're gonna call it) in this episode reminded me a lot of the formation of the IOA in SG-1.

prion
October 24th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Well this episode brought up some of the moral decisions made my Atlantis so it was good in that sense. But I don't think we need an episode like this to remind us of what Atlantis has been through and that they have taken a few steps back, made a lot of sacrificies, made enemies and allies. But in the end they should be able to have a Pegasus galaxy free of most threats. As per the episode itself was not my cup of tea, and is the lowest rated ep since "Whispers", imo. Well the last 3 eps were excellent, one of them likely being one of the best two-parters of the series, last week's had very strong character development. So you cannot love them all. The next episode looks really good, btw, and will likely will complete yet another story arc of SGA. Well cannot love them all. This one was better than Whispers, imo. That ain't saying much.

BTW, do not tune into SCI FI next Friday, Ghost Plumbers is airing their horrible live special, imo and will likely require some true SCI FI fans to gouge out their eyes with lemons.

*You've been warned, Atlantis returns in 2 weeks*

The moral issues were tackled but nothing truly resolved; it would be nice if we could see suspicion from some Pegasus Galaxy locals down the line. oh wait, smacks self with dead trout. There will be no later on (shakes fist at MGm and Skiffy).

Meanwhile, folks will watch Ghost Hunters cuz they're stuntcasting Amanda Tapping on the October 31st episode, AND stuntcasting Colin Ferguson from EUREKA on Wednesday's episode. Wish they could have gotten David Hewlett to do one, but if he went into McKay mode, he'd *cough* scare away the ghosts.

prion
October 24th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Letters From Pegasus can count as a clip show


"Letters from Pegasus" had a lot more meat to it. It was a clip show to some degree, but had its own plot within.

lirenel
October 24th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Like the council, I had less of a problem with them waking the Wraith. They were new, they really had no idea what they were up against or getting into. Michael, though, was a series of mistakes that could have easily have been prevented witha few more precautions. Such as, I don't know, not keeping him on Atlantis. Or making the same mistake twice by turning him human again.

I'm iffy on whether they should have been found guilty or innocent. But the part I liked the least was Woolsey and Sheppard smoking and drinking and not even commentating on the fact that part of what they were accused of was true.

Bizzare Star
October 24th, 2008, 06:46 PM
I liked this episode. Woolsey was amazing.

One thing though: I think if they took time to question the whole team, they could have taken out the clips and have more time to add to everyone's character. Different views of the same situation can be a lot more interesting then reshowing old clips.

Still, Woolsey totally gained points this episode.

Ruffles
October 24th, 2008, 06:47 PM
"The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions"

I don't think anyone would condemn them for acting maliciously, but they've certainly acted irresponsibly at times, and many people are dead, regardless of what their intentions were.

That's very true. But should they be punished (exiled for the rest of their lives) for mistakes made while defending their lives?

JeffKnight
October 24th, 2008, 06:48 PM
They gave Woolsey Obama's resume' lol

The formation of the "Pegasus Alliance" (or w/e they're gonna call it) in this episode reminded me a lot of the formation of the IOA in SG-1.

UGH! I hope not. One group of pompous, indecisive, bickering bedwetters is enough...

ladyjanus
October 24th, 2008, 06:51 PM
See, Teyla's been set up right from the beginning as the mediator, the go-between, the diplomatic, calm and unflappable one. Why didn't Sheppard have her talking to the councilors right from the beginning?

Really, that's the only thing I can find to quibble about on this ep.

I like the promise of an increase of the socio-political influence the Expedition is to have in the PG, but it's coming awfully late in the game, considering the cancellation and all. Okay, there's another little quibble...

Ruffles
October 24th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Like the council, I had less of a problem with them waking the Wraith. They were new, they really had no idea what they were up against or getting into. Michael, though, was a series of mistakes that could have easily have been prevented witha few more precautions. Such as, I don't know, not keeping him on Atlantis. Or making the same mistake twice by turning him human again.

I'm iffy on whether they should have been found guilty or innocent. But the part I liked the least was Woolsey and Sheppard smoking and drinking and not even commentating on the fact that part of what they were accused of was true.

We've seen them question themselves in the past. I don't think Sheppard or Woolsey took the accusations lightly, but they've reconciled themselves to what they've done and don't dwell. Continually wallowing in guilt and beating themselves up over past mistakes won't do themselves or anyone else any good.

Sue_Jackson
October 24th, 2008, 07:00 PM
BOOOORING! :ronananime17:Nothing but a damn clip show. No action. No fighting. Ronon didn't even get to shoot his gun. Nothing dull, boring talking and politics. Woolsey is soooo dull. :rolleyes:

Reiko
October 24th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Did they do Lizzie and Carson justice?

APFW
October 24th, 2008, 07:15 PM
This episode was a C+ or a 5 at best. Ugh! the only redeeming quality was Woosley's leadership. I can't wait for the Prodigal.

trupi
October 24th, 2008, 07:20 PM
BOOOORING! :ronananime17:Nothing but a damn clip show. No action. No fighting. Ronon didn't even get to shoot his gun. Nothing dull, boring talking and politics. Woolsey is soooo dull. :rolleyes:

I agree a lame episode! Been there, done it! But Ronon did get to shoot his gun, at a door:)

TragicComedy
October 24th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Overall, I really liked this episode. I think this could have been taken into a two parter. Well, I don't know about that but it definitely could have gone longer than an hour. I felt that they could have done more with the trial but were restricted episode time wise.

I would have loved if they would have brought Teyla into the council room and have her testify. She is a native of this galaxy and a leader of the Athosian people. She expressed that Atlantis has caused their share of problems but she also knows that without Atlantis there is no hope for this galaxy.

I liked that Atlantis was brought up on trial for all this though. Especially after last week's episode and all the moral implications there. Atlantis has made a lot of mistakes, Michael being right up there in the forefront. And while their actions are not with malicious intent that doesn't make the lives lost any less dead. In our court system, an accidental death caused by reckless behavior is called manslaughter.

I personally thought it would be funny if they were sentenced to "community service". Which I guess if you think about is what they are doing anyway but still, it would have been funny.

Ruffles
October 24th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Did they do Lizzie and Carson justice?

Not much Carson that I recall, but lots of Elizabeth here. Nice mention by Woolsey of how valuable she was and what a devastating loss.

Reiko
October 24th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Not much Carson that I recall, but lots of Elizabeth here. Nice mention by Woolsey of how valuable she was and what a devastating loss.

Okay, thanks. This is good sign -- TPTB cannot go without Lizzie or Carson whether they know it or not. :P

the fifth man
October 24th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Like a lot of others have already stated, Woolsey was great in this episode. His role in "Inquisition" really helped add to my enjoyment of the episode. And the end with him and John was priceless.

Pandora's_Box
October 24th, 2008, 08:13 PM
What?The?Hell?

That was not a trial; when one person is bought and paid for to vote one way and another is so obviously biased that no reasoned argument can broach the thick shell of contempt, you do not have a trial, but a farce.

It's a pity. I'd hoped a real dilemma in this episode. A true grasp and understanding of the implications of some of the actions taken and decisions made by the Atlantis Expedition in the Pegasus Galaxy.

Instead, TPTB took the same old route they always do; our heroes are self-righteous and it seems justifiable because the indigenous people are "ungrateful" and too biased to understand the full scope of the situation.

Of course, it's not only the trial that's a farce but the outcome is a sham; bought and paid for in the manner of the Genni. And Atlantis is supposed to be better than them? Granted, it's better to play the game then die, but it should never have been played that way in the first place.

So where are we left at the end? Our heroes have learned nothing except that now they're the "poor misunderstood" heroes who can't trust anybody because the people of Pegasus have been portrayed as simplistic buffoons.

Now they'll just move on their merry way, victims of a cruel joke, forever persecuted and misunderstood by the very people they sacrifice their own lives to save.

Thanks PTB for shoving that down my throat....again....and again.

Delynn
October 24th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Woolsey really had his moment to shine in this episode.

I was expecting it to be more "clippy" and less focused on the team... and was pleasantly surprised.

My only complaint is that Ronan seemed like he was just along for the ride... I don't think he had more than one or two lines of dialogue in the whole episode!

Another thing: why do they list the whole regular cast in the opening credits if they're not all gonna be in the episode? It made sense to have them in there when there was a full-length opening sequence, but not when the names are just flashing up on the bottom of the screen.

TheoryCraft
October 24th, 2008, 08:14 PM
It wasn't that the team was running around being evil. If anything they were on trial for the massive amount of collateral damage. Whether it was entirely their fault or not.

Teslan
October 24th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Woolsey was great, and for a clip show so was this episode. I loved the political powerplays, and no slight to them, but none of the past leaders of Atlantis would have been able to do it. It comes off as almost slimy, but inevitable.

The whole team seemed "along for the ride", IMO but that was really all they could do I guess with the set-up of the episode. Maybe they could have changed it so that every member had to face the council.

Contract arrangements probably force them to put everyone's name at the beginning of the episode.

ScifigirlSG
October 24th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Just starting to watch the episode. IIRC, the gate was destroyed in First Contact/The lost Tribe. The opening scene showed a stargate in the background. Makes one wonder when this took place.

garhkal
October 24th, 2008, 09:03 PM
I really think Woolsey came into his own on this episode. He showed true leadership and the kind of loyalty and resolve to see his team through to "victory" even if it meant the IOA and its policies be damned. We even get to have SG-1 past come back when the judge referred to Woolsey thinking that human life was just a numbers game (SG-1 Season 7: Heroes) and he was visibly upset by this reference.

Very good for a clip/recap episode - especially since we got some MAJOR character development. This episode makes me hope we see Woolsey in the movies.


And i thought it was about time the people of PG did something like this. I mean i was actually wanting something like this to happen since the whole replicator/asuran debacle... It would not have happened if we had not messed around, nor would the gates have exploded killing countless people from 2 eps ago...


The simple fact that this was a witch hunt could also have swayed the judge.

As evident by the woman's attitude. She was wanting to hold someone responsible, no matter what.


The main thing that bugged me about this episode is how could primitive people build a castle-like building underground and burn fires letalone breathe in it without any kind of ventillation. Or did the Genii help them?

My guess, since it was (as it seemed) the Genii who set it up, they helped out by lending one of their underground bunkers.


The accusations were well thought out (though I wonder where they got some of their info).

Probabily from the Genii..


Ronon and Teyla's response - they see the accusations from a different perspective. I would have really loved to hear Teyla's response to the charges.

Very true. I would have loved to see either her or Ronon get on the "stand" so to speak.


Such as, I don't know, not keeping him on Atlantis. Or making the same mistake twice by turning him human again.

Or better yet, putting a subcutaneous transmitter in him, so they oculd find him.


That's very true. But should they be punished (exiled for the rest of their lives) for mistakes made while defending their lives?

Some of that was, some of it was not. How was their messing with the reps not their fault, since it was them who brought the asurans down on everyone's head.
Same with michael and the Hoffan drug.


Delsana, why does it matter if the actors or characters smoke and drink? You act as if it were some kind of federal offense.

To some, when they see role models (which like it or not, all actors and actresses wind up being regarded as) doing stuff like drinking and smoking, they feel it sends the wrong message.

As for me. I liked the ep. I loved the concept, but hated some of the way they went with it, though i liked the Genii/bribery twist.

Lythisrose
October 24th, 2008, 09:07 PM
I liked this episode alot. It was well done for a clip show, (although more of Ronon and Teyla would have been nice).
After all the silly shipping stuff they've been focusing on lately, this was refreshing and reminded me of quite a bit of good stuff from seasons past. :)
And that ending really made me think of Boston Legal.
Denny Crane, Denny Crane.

Nadji
October 24th, 2008, 09:23 PM
The Cigars and Scotch at the end had a very Boston Legal touch, which was amusing to see.

Vis Uban
October 24th, 2008, 09:45 PM
As far as clip shows go, it was pretty good, with some good Woolsey moments, but I couldn't help thinking Weir would have been fantastic in his place. This would have been right up her alley..., and they said they had trouble coming up with storylines for characters like her!

Ok, I have to say it, I know Pandora already has, but come on, I have to. That was a trial? One completely biased judge, one reasonable judge, and one bought-and-payed-for judge? And where was a jury? Shepard didn't even have a defense attorney until Woolsey showed up. Worse, the Pegasus litigation squad kept going on and on about due process! That wasn't due process; it was a drumhead trial! They wouldn't know due process if it walked up and said "I'm due process, but don't worry, you wouldn't know me."

Not to mention the slightly ridiculous nature of the whole thing. The alliance of primitives seems to think they have the superior bargoning position? Their best threat was to not to trade with them anymore. Can't they just get their food from Earth or grow it themselves? Atlantis only has a couple of hundred people. Maybe the Expedition will feel more threatened when the Pegasus Alliance gets beyond the Medieval/Renaissance stage. Comparatively speaking, it's like Da Vince era Italy trying to threaten the modern US. I credit Woolsey for not laughing in his face.

I don't mean to sound too callous; I agree that the people of Pegasus deserve at least an explanation for events in recent history, especially since they seem to have some strange ideas about it, but they could have definitely been just a little less confrontational about the whole thing.

Finally, I'm not really a huge Teyla fan, but I think she could really have been used well here, seeing that she's the leader of an indigenous people in Pegasus. IMO, her perspective would have been more valuable to the "judges" than Shepherd's or Woolsey's.

Pandora's_Box
October 24th, 2008, 09:50 PM
Thank you, Vis! And here I thought I was alone on that front.

Quite frankly, the fact that TPTB couldn't muster up the effort to make that a believable trial ruined the episode for me.

There's so much that the Atlantis crew needs to be held accountable for and that's what we get instead?

I know I shouldn't have expected more, after all, this is coming from the same writing crew that has written every single oversight committee as comprised of nothing more than fools looking to save their own a****. Why should this committee have been any different?



Finally, I'm not really a huge Teyla fan, but I think she could really have been used well here, seeing that she's the leader of an indigenous people in Pegasus. IMO, her perspective would have been more valuable to the "judges" than Shepherd's or Woolsey's.

I suspect we'll get another round of Teyla fans screaming at the injustice of it all. And I don't blame them.

She could have been especially useful in getting through to the woman on the council. There's an opportunity wasted.

Vis Uban
October 24th, 2008, 10:03 PM
Thank you, Vis! And here I thought I was alone on that front.

Quite frankly, the fact that TPTB couldn't muster up the effort to make that a believable trial ruined the episode for me.

There's so much that the Atlantis crew needs to be held accountable for and that's what we get instead?

I know I shouldn't have expected more, after all, this is coming from the same writing crew that has written every single oversight committee as comprised of nothing more than fools looking to save their own a****. Why should this committee have been any different?

Well, you know, great minds and all that. :)

Honestly, I think they could have done so much more with this episode by making the judges much more convincing, three-dimensional characters. Actually have their questions come just a little too close to home, rather than being simplistic and cluttered with faulty information. They could have really made the episode interesting, instead, the "judges" just came off as biased and, well, slightly buffoonish, while our heroes sailed unscathed through the train wreck of the PA's truly horrible legal system. Ah, so much wasted potential...

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Well, you know, great minds and all that. :)

Honestly, I think they could have done so much more with this episode by making the judges much more convincing, three-dimensional characters. Actually have their questions come just a little too close to home, rather than being simplistic and cluttered with faulty information. They could have really made the episode interesting, instead, the "judges" just came off as biased and, well, slightly buffoonish, while our heroes sailed unscathed through the train wreck of the PA's truly horrible legal system. Ah, so much wasted potential...
But our heroes nearly did not sail through unscathed. I would just like to point that out.
In fact: They were hugely scathed if you ask me, now being tied to a political machine that will probably be out to get them in the near future.

Pandora's_Box
October 24th, 2008, 10:18 PM
But our heroes nearly did not sail through unscathed. I would just like to point that out.
In fact: They were hugely scathed if you ask me, now being tied to a political machine that will probably be out to get them in the near future.

Ah yes, in episodes we'll likely never see.

That's just lazy writing; promising more drama in future episodes as a result of this trial. Well, I'm sorry. I didn't watch the episode that TPTB claimed to be the "accountability" episode to be promised a real "accountability" episode sometime in the near, possible future.

The fact remains, Woolsey and Sheppard ended the episode by smoking cigars, drinking scotch, and toasting their victory over the nearly neanderthal-ic Pegasus inhabitants.

Come on! What kind of judge pulls out the 'ole, "how do we really know you killed those Hive ships? You could just be saying that to win us over" retort?

The kind that has done absolutely no research because, for that matter, how does anything anyone said during that trial actually hold up? It's all hearsay.

Were the Wraith on some sort of timer that said they absolutely had to awaken only after a few more generations? Are these Pegasus folk prescient or did the Wraith set an alarm and let everyone know when it would go off?

2 million people? Who came up with that number and how? After all, we know one judge is biased, who's to say that they didn't "exaggerate" the figures?

For Pete's sake, they can't even decide on who's story about the Genni is true!!!

Vis Uban
October 24th, 2008, 10:22 PM
But our heroes nearly did not sail through unscathed. I would just like to point that out.
In fact: They were hugely scathed if you ask me, now being tied to a political machine that will probably be out to get them in the near future.

Good point, at the end of the episode I myself was thinking that tying themselves to the Pegasus Alliance was a horrible idea. Anyone else think of the word "leech?"

I was speaking more from an ethical standpoint. Atlantis has clearly made some controversial decisions in the last five years, and speaking about these choices could have made the episode more interesting, not to mention uncomfortable for the main characters, IMO.

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 10:22 PM
Ah yes, in episodes we'll likely never see.

That's just lazy writing; promising more drama in future episodes as a result of this trial. Well, I'm sorry. I didn't watch the episode that TPTB claimed to be the "accountability" episode to be promised a real "accountability" episode sometime in the near, possible future.

The fact remains, Woolsey and Sheppard ended the episode by smoking cigars, drinking scotch, and toasting their victory over the nearly neanderthal-ic Pegasus inhabitants.

Come on! What kind of judge pulls out the 'ole, "how do we really know you killed those Hive ships? You could just be saying that to win us over" retort?

The kind that has done absolutely no research because, for that matter, how does anything anyone said during that trial actually hold up? It's all hearsay.

Were the Wraith on some sort of timer that said they absolutely had to awaken only after a few more generations? Are these Pegasus folk prescient or did the Wraith set an alarm and let everyone know when it would go off?

2 million people? Who came up with that number and how? After all, we know one judge is biased, who's to say that they didn't "exaggerate" the figures?

For Pete's sake, they can't even decide on who's story about the Genni is true!!!Because we will not get another season to the show, is why, we will never see them. The Powers that be are a lot better at weaving together story threads then most people give them credit for. This episode could have been better. It couldhave shown real accountabillity to. But, it is clear to me at least, that any judge, or jury, would give them an innocent vote for logically they have done nothing wrong. Except for with Micheal, and they have tried to fix that one.

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 10:23 PM
Good point, at the end of the episode I myself was thinking that tying themselves to the Pegasus Alliance was a horrible idea. Anyone else think of the word "leech?"

I was speaking more from an ethical standpoint. Atlantis has clearly made some controversial decisions in the last five years, and speaking about these choices could have made the episode more interesting, not to mention uncomfortable for the main characters, IMO.
I do not think it was comfortable for Shep, at all, he just tried to hide it under his confidence that they would have gotten out of there. There was once or twice where it looked like the court scored a couple of points on him, his soul at least.

Pandora's_Box
October 24th, 2008, 10:26 PM
Because we will not get another season to the show, is why, we will never see them. The Powers that be are a lot better at weaving together story threads then most people give them credit for. This episode could have been better. It couldhave shown real accountabillity to. But, it is clear to me at least, that any judge, or jury, would give them an innocent vote for logically they have done nothing wrong. Except for with Micheal, and they have tried to fix that one.

I'm not looking for a guilt verdict. I also don't happen to think they deserve one.

My main issue remains with the characterization of the council members and the ridiculous premise of the "trial".

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 10:29 PM
I'm not looking for a guilt verdict. I also don't happen to think they deserve one.

My main issue remains with the characterization of the council members and the ridiculous premise of the "trial".
I do see your point.
I guess my only counter is that they do not even need to be put on trial. But, you are right. I mean heck, I have admitted that the members could have been a lot better.

Daisy1974
October 24th, 2008, 10:38 PM
BTW, do not tune into SCI FI next Friday, Ghost Plumbers is airing their horrible live special, imo and will likely require some true SCI FI fans to gouge out their eyes with lemons.

*You've been warned, Atlantis returns in 2 weeks*

Brian, telling people not to tune in next friday to Sci Fi is going going to hurt "The Ghost Plumbers", Sci Fi just gave them a fifth Season with 26 episodes and what did Atlantis Get, CANCELLED!!!!!

Sci Fi loves Ghost Plumbers better then stupid old stargate! SCI FI GAVE GHOST HUNTERS A NEW SEASON AND CANCELED SGA! SCI FI LOVES THEM AND EUREKA NAD SANCTUARY BETTER THEN YOU!

Sorry! after watching the garbage to night I decided the show was not worthing watching anymore and I wont wont cry a single tear when it's gone., I"LL PARTY!!!!!

Vis Uban
October 24th, 2008, 10:43 PM
I do not think it was comfortable for Shep, at all, he just tried to hide it under his confidence that they would have gotten out of there. There was once or twice where it looked like the court scored a couple of points on him, his soul at least.

They may have scored some points, but the judges, their personalities and the manner in which they acted, were never actually convincing. They were just too two dimensional to fulfill their roles. You could have had a cardboard cutout of each judge. One expression really describes them pretty well. Have one appear thoughtful, one glare viciously, and give the last a slight gleam of avarice, and you're set.

I certainly didn't want the team convicted either, but the trial could have been done so much better. Good point though, about Shepard's reaction. I would have loved to see him in place of Woolsey when they brought up Weir.

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 10:46 PM
They may have scored some points, but the judges, their personalities and the manner in which they acted, were never actually convincing. They were just too two dimensional to fulfill their roles. You could have had a cardboard cutout of each judge. One expression really describes them pretty well. Have one appear thoughtful, one glare viciously, and give the last a slight gleam of avarice, you're set.

I certainly didn't want the team convicted either, but the trial could have been done so much better.
Agreed.
Two things that are really sad though about this. One, no one is JMS, JMS is his own pedestal of grand writing...if he can't do it...no one can...he probably be brilliant with this though.
Secondly, we do only have a fourty five minute window. I would love for them to write it better, and they seem to have a problem sometimes fitting in everything they want. But they have only so little time to get into anything indepth, and is beyond a few cliches. Unless you are the above mentioned.
That would have been awesome...I think he would maybe have lost it.

Mekarri
October 24th, 2008, 10:48 PM
I have been waiting for this episode. From the beginning I wondered what gave them the right to come to another galaxy and cause the dealths of millions. They did feel bad about it when they thought about it. The people just didn't really mean a lot to them. Remember how disrespectful and dismissive they were of Teyla and her people in the beginning. They always treated the natives as unintelligent an if they had to make decision for all the people of the galaxy. I never understood how Teyla or Ronon could work with them without some resentment. Then Shep go on to say that the people of the Pegasus galaxy should be thankful for their help. I love the show just for the sci fi quality and try not to think about it. In the beginning I was sure I wasn't going to like Woosley or Keller. But as it turn out I really like Woosley. Keller not so much.

Pandora's_Box
October 24th, 2008, 10:48 PM
Agreed.
Two things that are really sad though about this. One, no one is JMS, JMS is his own pedestal of grand writing...if he can't do it...no one can...he probably be brilliant with this though.
Secondly, we do only have a fourty five minute window. I would love for them to write it better, and they seem to have a problem sometimes fitting in everything they want. But they have only so little time to get into anything indepth, and is beyond a few cliches. Unless you are the above mentioned.

JMS? Who is JMS?

Yeah, I can see how the time frame is problematic, but it's not like it would have been impossible. Crime procedurals wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are if it were impossible.

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 10:51 PM
JMS? Who is JMS?

Yeah, I can see how the time frame is problematic, but it's not like it would have been impossible. Crime procedurals wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are if it were impossible.
Jay. Micheal. Strazynsky. Creator/ Executive Producer/ Head writer to Babylon 5.

Pandora's_Box
October 24th, 2008, 11:01 PM
Jay. Micheal. Strazynsky. Creator/ Executive Producer/ Head writer to Babylon 5.

Would you kill me if I admitted that I've never watched Babylon 5?

Col.Foley
October 24th, 2008, 11:02 PM
Would you kill me if I admitted that I've never watched Babylon 5?
No...I would just say, go to netflix immedietly, rent all five season, and do not return to gate world until you watch them all. :P
I am quite in worship of that mans writing.

Redhooks
October 24th, 2008, 11:50 PM
No...I would just say, go to netflix immedietly, rent all five season, and do not return to gate world until you watch them all. :P
I am quite in worship of that mans writing.
You don't even have to do that if you have a fast internet connection because the first two seasons of B5 are on Hulu here (http://www.hulu.com/babylon-5).

I thought this episode was average but I feel it is long overdue that some sort of alliance/coalition between Atlantis and the people of the Pegasus Galaxy should be talked about. I guess you could say the Atlantis team could have been reluctant after their experience with the Genii, but besides the Athosians (and maybe the Travelers,) who else have they become friends with? Not all the people in PG are at the renaissance level of development just look at the Hoffans and the Satedans to name a few. While they wouldn't be helpful technologically, they would have more manpower and experience dealing with the Wraith and possibly some useful intelligence.

This building of coalition is one of the things I really enjoyed about Babylon 5 and thought it was a neglected storyline in SGA. Too little, too late since from the spoilers I have seen, this coalition will be barely brought up again, if at all.

Franklyn Blaze
October 25th, 2008, 12:06 AM
The Cigars and Scotch at the end had a very Boston Legal touch, which was amusing to see.

Haha I totally noticed that. I just watched the parts of the episode that didn't involve clips, and made generous use of the fast forward button. :D

Khentkawes
October 25th, 2008, 12:30 AM
The Not-Good:
- Why is Sheppard the only one who gets to testify? I know he's the "leader-guy" and so he always has to be in the center of the action, but it would have made more sense to hear from all of the team (sort of the way SG-1 worked in Cor-ai, they all got to participate in the trial). Now, granted, Ronon would make the worst defense attorney ever (he'd probably shoot the judge). And McKay wouldn't be much better. So maybe it was best if they didn't testify. But Teyla, at least, should have been allowed to speak. She would have had some nice perspectives, and she seems more diplomatic than Sheppard.

- The ending. I really wanted Woolsey to say something a bit more profound. Something about moral ambiguity, or how they really should treat the people in the Pegasus Galaxy as beings worthy of governing themselves, or something to show that the trial did bring up some valid issues. It's time that the Atlantis expedition learned to look at the big picture and the consequences of their actions. But of course, that didn't happen here. Not that really I expected it to. (hoped, but didn't expect)

The Good:
- Ronon's line about escaping. "when the guards come in, I'll beat them up." Not "we'll beat them up." That made me chuckle.

- Teyla's comment about how Atlantis had made some mistakes or had some set-backs or however she phrased it. Basically she acknowledged that they made mistakes, but they also brought hope. A very nice perspective.

- Oddly enough, I really liked some of the clips. It was nice to see flashbacks with Ford, Elizabeth, and human-Michael (I love Connor Trineer).

- When Sheppard had to admit he didn't have a plan for their escape. That was funny. Even funnier because he seemed a bit flustered when Woolsey asked him.

- Woolsey! Woolsey! And more Woolsey! Picardo is still awesome. He was wonderful to watch. There was some nice development for him, and some nice bonding time between Woolsey and the team. I was genuinely surprised when I first saw Woolsey in the cell with the rest of them. And I cracked up that he was the only one who bothered to think about trying to win the trial. It was also nice to see Woolsey's intelligent side. I mean, yes, Picardo has great comedic timing, but I don't want the character to always be used as comic relief. So it was great to see a more serious, meaty role for him.

Oh, and Woolsey's comment about a "federation, of sorts" was great. Nice Star Trek moment.

I'd really love to see Woolsey used this way more often, although I doubt that will happen, all things considered.

Either way, the episode had some bumpy parts, but I enjoyed it overall. And it was a nice attempt at something a little different.

Platschu
October 25th, 2008, 12:44 AM
It could have been better with less video clips. I wanted to hear Ronon's and Teyla's opinion about the expedition and their actions, because they are from the Pegasus galaxy. I can give only 5/10 point. :o

bluealien
October 25th, 2008, 02:04 AM
Disappointing episode and once again wasted potential. Very many good points raised by their accusers but as usual it was all brushed aside and no consequenses for the team. Shep was too cavalier and didn't really seem to take the whole thing seriously. But again that's how the writers seem to handle Sheppard lately. I would have liked to have seen more reaction from him instead of jumping to endless clips that went on far too long.

We got a glimmer of something from him at times but then Woolsey stepped in and the whole thing became a bit of a farce. The only scene that really grabbed me was the lady juror telling her story about her family being killed. I would have liked to have seen Shep's reaction to that and not Woolsey. Why didnt Teyla or Ronon get to testify since they are from the Pegasus galaxy and could have given their opinion on how they felt.

It was all too conveniently handled and I didnt like that the Genii get dragged in again. I would have preferred that the council wanted a trial purely because they felt the team had created such distruction in the Pegasus Galaxy and not becasue the Genii wanted to be top dog.

The jury were too cliched and lacked believabilty though they started out well, but then they just seemed to cave far too easily. So we got no accountability, no soul searching by the team.. nothing.

The main charge was that they take things on themselves and act on them without thinking of anyone else in the galaxy, or being accountable to anyone and this was a very valid charge, but it never really got answered at all.

Several times the team have taken action to save themselves or Atlantis but never seem to stop and consider how their actions may be effecting the rest of the galaxy. The latest event was the Alterran Device, Rodney activates it to save himself and Daniel but as usual they just brush off the side effects or consequenses to other inhabitants in the galaxy,.

So many questions asked but none really answered and they get out of their predicament by not so honorable means. I didnt want a guilty version for the team but I would have liked the topic to have been dealt with a bit more seriously and maybe caused the team to do some soul searching but the writers are not willing to go there. They keep things shallow and don't really ever want to delve into anything deep or meaningful in case it may show the team as anything but heros.

The writers seem to prefer love triangles and shallow characters over anything meaningful at all these days..

Sp!der
October 25th, 2008, 02:26 AM
for crying out loud, its the best clip show in the stargate franchise since letters from pegasus. I really liked it. The End was the best...I never thought of John and Woolsey smoking cigars....i kinda liked it.
all in all...it was a good clip show.

Linda06
October 25th, 2008, 02:29 AM
Well I found this episode a little boring...I never felt they were really in any danger of being found guilty..Ronon,Teyla and Rodney were barely there at all..Like others I would have liked to see them questioned with them being Pegasus residents and to see what their POV is on the whole thing..

It was essentially at Sheppard/Woolsey ep...Although Woolsey was great in this ep...We get to see him play to his strength...Liked the reaction of Teyla and Ronon when I think it was McKay that said something about it not being their fault the wraith woke up..

Also I think there were just too many clips through it for my liking..

Oh and another thing I liked about the ep was no Keller anywhere to be seen and no mention of this romance from hell :D

But all in all a pretty deisappointing ep *shrugs*

Atlanis
October 25th, 2008, 02:39 AM
I got to say I've have never seen a clip show as good as this one, and it was fantastic and nicly preformed by Mr. Picardo and that last speach his charicter gave to the "judges" was impressive too
the one thing I was supprised that they didn't bring up what the exploading gates form the two parter this year, I am very supprised that they didn't bring that up but I have to say this ep is one of the best IMHO

segaxgames
October 25th, 2008, 03:32 AM
This episode was<mod snip....the language filter is there for a reason, and if you can't express yourself without circumventing it, then maybe you should keep your thoughts to yourself until you can>

segaxgames
October 25th, 2008, 03:33 AM
This episode lost me at "They are not advanced."

segaxgames
October 25th, 2008, 03:36 AM
and their arguments were illogical...

Atlantis did not blow up a "few" hive ships, but A LOT of hive ships.

And it wasn't because of getting them to fight each other, having ancient tech, or the help of allies...

it was because they had ships -- big powerful ships.

I mean, it was like they were skipping over the fact that Atlantis had the strongest ships in the galaxy...

i mean, the script made no sense -- maybe in season one -- but now? Hell no. Destroying Hive Ships is not an "AMAZING FEET" when you have freaking asgard beams and lazers.... I mean, come on.

This episode was bull S H I T!

bluealien
October 25th, 2008, 03:52 AM
Does anyone know where they got the new gate from... can they just stop by the store and buy a flat packed one...:P

The argument that the Pegasus Galaxy is a better place because the Team distroyed a few Wraith ships is really pretty lame. Also Woolsey saying they lost ONE valuable member.. so I could understand the jurors outrage and indignation at that statement...:mckay:

So a few hundred Wraith on a hive ship as opposed to the countless worlds that they were responsible for destroying. The Alterran Device alone would have wiped out thousands if not more so a few Hive Ships don't really count.

I don't really see one hive ship being able to cull more than a village with a few hundred people,... So the idea of one Wraith Ship culling entire worlds as always bothered me... I'm sure that there are hundreds of Wraith ships out there so destroying a few of them doesnt really make up for all the other distruction the Atlanteans have caused, whether it was unintentional or not....

Fan-e-Gate
October 25th, 2008, 04:29 AM
Well I have mixed feelings about the episode.
When I heard the title I knew it would be a clip show but I thought it would be an Earthbased IOA court case against Shephard.
Instead we got one with an "impartial" judges.
I wanted this premise to be explored at least once in an episode but I feel that they cheapened it by not exactly discussing the issues. It would have also been a good way to throw in suggestions that fans have offered up-ie why not blow up Michael's ship in S&R while they knew he was still on board (and not wait for a daring rescue)

The verdict-I am glad we got to have a verdict rather than the team trying to escape (regardless of how rigged it was). But similarly it sucked that we ended up bribing one of them. I am glad we didn't have to bribe the most rational one who gave us "not guilty"
That said the arguments on each side were pretty superficial and weak (I guess because it is a 40 min show).

Genii- I really liked these guys but I don't see how they even compare to Atlantis. It would have been cool if they were actually on the judgement panel.

In fact it would have been cool if this was done in front of a whole audience of villagers-giving deathstares, heckling etc.

The smoking scene at the end reminded me of Boston Legal but very out of place for Atlantis (regardless of the context)

Characters-
Woolsey-he is just totally great.
Shephard-kind of hiis episode

Ronon, McKay, Teyla- seriously did they need to be there. They said the same things about trying to escape everytime Shephard came back to the cell. I guess some peopel are just thankful Keller wasn't there.
Judges-is the bribed one familar. Have we seen him on a previous SG episode in the past (maybe as a different character)?
Clips-Seen them quite a few times because I would watch several of these episodes for these exact scenes (and more). I would have liked to see the woman's family getting wasted as it would really make us more sympathetic

JackHarkness_Hot
October 25th, 2008, 04:51 AM
It's a clip show, but it's nice to see a review of the past 5 years of Atlantis.

The council is pretty messed up but they don't understand impartial if it came up and smacked them in the ass. Where bribery (of the non-monetary kind), and grief is so easily manipulated.

In some ways, it's good that the coalition acknowledges Atlantis' action and its role in the PG, like destroying the Replicators.

And the end scene smacks of BOSTON LEGAL! Don't it? I was like "huh?"

I can understand why Woolsey misses his suit, I love wearing suits too. And on that note, it was an okay episode. Good to see Weir on our screens even if it was a clip show. :)

EDIT: Oh and still annoyed with that lady coalition member, bet she blames the Ancients for creating Stargates for the Wraith to use, blames the Wraith for culling them, blames the Replicators for destroying her village, blames Atlantis for taking action against them. Why doesn't she blame herself too for marrying her husband and giving birth to her kids, if she didn't do those, they wouldn't have died. It's so pathetic.

Madwelshboy
October 25th, 2008, 05:01 AM
I must say i didnt have many expertations for this episode (never been a fan of clip shows), but i think it worked well in comparison to SG-1's clip shows. I agree with what people are saying in regards to Rodney, Teyla and Ronan, especially since Teyla and Ronan are PG natives. There could have been a scene with these two in front of the counsil addressing this.

Pharaoh Atem
October 25th, 2008, 05:09 AM
well the writers finally found woolsey

great work robert :D

Madeleine
October 25th, 2008, 05:43 AM
Apropos of several deletions... (And that includes posts which were not in themselves offensive or rulebreaking, but which quoted posts which had been pretty out of line)

What actors do in private is no one's business but their own. It's certainly not on topic for this thread.

GW has a longstanding policy of not discussing the private lives of the actors on the show. Please let's keep it that way.

If anyone feels compelled to criticise any actor for that actor's private behaviour, you can (a) go and do it on your own website, and (b) be sure to follow it up with a complete praesis of everything you've ever done so that if other people want to have the same sort of muckraking fun at your expense, they can scan your life's history for things of which they can publicly disapprove.

Cheers.

JadedWraith
October 25th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Disappointing episode and once again wasted potential. Very many good points raised by their accusers but as usual it was all brushed aside and no consequenses for the team. Shep was too cavalier and didn't really seem to take the whole thing seriously. [...] The only scene that really grabbed me was the lady juror telling her story about her family being killed. I would have liked to have seen Shep's reaction to that and not Woolsey. Why didnt Teyla or Ronon get to testify since they are from the Pegasus galaxy and could have given their opinion on how they felt.

It was all too conveniently handled and I didnt like that the Genii get dragged in again. I would have preferred that the council wanted a trial purely because they felt the team had created such distruction in the Pegasus Galaxy and not becasue the Genii wanted to be top dog.

The jury were too cliched and lacked believabilty though they started out well, but then they just seemed to cave far too easily. So we got no accountability, no soul searching by the team.. nothing.

The main charge was that they take things on themselves and act on them without thinking of anyone else in the galaxy, or being accountable to anyone and this was a very valid charge, but it never really got answered at all.[...]

Several times the team have taken action to save themselves or Atlantis but never seem to stop and consider how their actions may be effecting the rest of the galaxy. .

The sad part was when they were accused of taking risks and making decisions for the galaxy, I whole heartedly agreed. Although she was clearly biased, those were valid points and no one really answered her. Sorry, I did not mean it, doesn't cut it.

I like my heroes human but accountability is a leadership quality. Even reckless Ronon took responsibility when he accidentally led the Wraith to that village. I'd like to see Shep do the same, instead of dismissing the whole matter as some Genii scheme.

sindicate
October 25th, 2008, 06:32 AM
it was an ok "Filler" episode

Pharaoh Atem
October 25th, 2008, 06:33 AM
it was an ok "Filler" episode

it was a clip show with a good story behind it

TPTB are saving money for later eps no different then what was done on sg1

sindicate
October 25th, 2008, 06:35 AM
it was a clip show with a good story behind it

TPTB are saving money for later eps no different then what was done on sg1

never said it was a bad thing, just obvious it was a filler episode that's all ;)

Pharaoh Atem
October 25th, 2008, 06:36 AM
never said it was a bad thing, just obvious it was a filler episode that's all ;)
and i'm saying it wasn't a filler

Snookie16
October 25th, 2008, 06:36 AM
Overall, I really liked this episode. I think this could have been taken into a two parter. Well, I don't know about that but it definitely could have gone longer than an hour. I felt that they could have done more with the trial but were restricted episode time wise.

I would have loved if they would have brought Teyla into the council room and have her testify. She is a native of this galaxy and a leader of the Athosian people. She expressed that Atlantis has caused their share of problems but she also knows that without Atlantis there is no hope for this galaxy.

I agree with you on the two parter because if you look at Politics in SG-1 that had many parts it could of been longer or it would of been a great movie concept.

As for Teyla I feel they underused her also in this episode it would of been great to get her opinion, because she is from the galaxy. Opinion Since, the council thought Teyla is from this galaxy she is not to be held accountable for the actions of her friends. :teyla:


Just starting to watch the episode. IIRC, the gate was destroyed in First Contact/The lost Tribe. The opening scene showed a stargate in the background. Makes one wonder when this took place.

They mentioned at the end of The Lost Tribe that the Deadlus found another stargate and it was almost set up it was when Daniel and Rodney where talking at the end.

ashman2
October 25th, 2008, 06:54 AM
Did anyone else think that the ending was a little bit of a copy of every Boston Legal episode, with the drinks, the cigars and the two men on a balcony looking out over their 'domain'?

It was good but it just did not quite have the style of BL

Pharaoh Atem
October 25th, 2008, 06:56 AM
Did anyone else think that the ending was a little bit of a copy of every Boston Legal episode, with the drinks, the cigars and the two men on a balcony looking out over their 'domain'?

It was good but it just did not quite have the style of BL
might have been the point

TPTB have always stolen ideas and use them for their shows

jelgate
October 25th, 2008, 06:57 AM
Did anyone else think that the ending was a little bit of a copy of every Boston Legal episode, with the drinks, the cigars and the two men on a balcony looking out over their 'domain'?It was good but it just did not quite have the style of BLI would imagine Boston Legal isn't the first show to adopt an ending like this. Besides a lot of Atlantis episodes end on the balcony.

Korean_Turtle87
October 25th, 2008, 07:05 AM
5 min into the epi i was thinking, "where's Daniel when you need him"

Pharaoh Atem
October 25th, 2008, 07:12 AM
5 min into the epi i was thinking, "where's Daniel when you need him"
trying to pull vala off of him

trekie
October 25th, 2008, 07:19 AM
I'll just list what I liked and what I didn't because it really wasn't my episode.

The Bright Side
- Woolsey being on the top of his game the whole episode
- Shep's arrogant remark about not remembering all the ways how they blew up hive ships
- Teyla's and Ronon's reaction to the charges in the cell
- the bribeing
- the Boston Legal homeage at the end

The Bad Stuff
- the lack of team, not everybody questioned at the trial
- well, clip-show
- the bit anticlimatic end

I know, I mentioned more good stuff but in overall I didn't enjoy the episode as much as the previous ones, it just wasn't what I was expecting to see.

Korean_Turtle87
October 25th, 2008, 07:46 AM
The bad thing about the episode is how they didn't use Teyla or Ronan. I mean c'mon! Teyla's athosian, Ronan's Satedan!

Reiko
October 25th, 2008, 07:50 AM
And the end scene smacks of BOSTON LEGAL! Don't it? I was like "huh?"

Hee, yes it does. And it makes me remember a year or two ago when Malozzi compared his awesome writing to Boston Legal ... BL will always own SGA, Joe. :rolleyes:

retiredat44
October 25th, 2008, 07:53 AM
I would not call it a filler, Woolsey finally got to streatch his skills a small bit... Ronan and Teyla should have had more of a role in defense. Maybe this should have been a 2 parter episode. But, with the end of SGA in a few more episodes, they at least pulled it off.

;)

Quinn Mallory
October 25th, 2008, 08:15 AM
I was ok that this was a clip show. I was ok with the idea of the trial by the people of Pegasus.

But to resolve it all by simply bribing a guy with god knows what? I thought Woosley would have been able to do better. I thought the ending was quite a bit of a letdown.

MechaThor
October 25th, 2008, 08:19 AM
The main thing that bugged me about this episode is how could primitive people build a castle-like building underground and burn fires letalone breathe in it without any kind of ventillation. Or did the Genii help them?



You are joking right? People have been building Underground tombs, dungeons and castles for thousands of years and had Fires lighting them with perfect Ventilation.

I actually rather liked this Epsiode. I felt it was a great and strong episode for Woolsey and really showed just how strong a character he can be in the show as the Atlantis leader. All of the Clips where entertaining to re-watch and did not feel forced and pointless. It was also nice seeing Ford again in the first few clips. I hope he re-appears for the movie as this series has shown that Sheppard still feels bad for Fords current situation.

I am also happy Atlantis finally showed that the people of Atlantis are not "perfect" heroes and showed that although they are trying to do the right thing, they can easily also be shown as the bad guys. I also felt it was a really strong moment when Woolsey was confronted by the fact that him saying that they lost 1 person (Weir) because of the replicators is nothing compared to what the population of Pegasus have lost because of them.

Overall an enjoyable episode and continues the strong & positive episodes we have had since "First Contact".

7.5/10

Vala_M
October 25th, 2008, 08:23 AM
Letters From Pegasus can count as a clip show

I forgot about that one. I guess the second one then.

Vala,

huntress
October 25th, 2008, 08:30 AM
I hope they are saving up the money for a really good series finale because this episode was seriously cheap to make. Not the worst story and decent to watch.

6/10

bandras
October 25th, 2008, 08:55 AM
I liked Woolsey, but that's just about it. The whole situation was... well it wasn't believable that a coalition of many "nations" would operate like this, trying to eliminate the relations with the Nr1 group of ppl who has means to fight enemies like nobody in the alliance. And BTW, They know all these stuff, but they don't know anything about the galaxy's situation.
As I said it wasn't believable for me

tombombadil
October 25th, 2008, 09:10 AM
i have to say, i really didn't expect some kind of spanish inquisition.......wait for it......

NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!


yes, that joke was 100% needed

lopo30
October 25th, 2008, 09:13 AM
well woolsey got to make he's part other way around this time as in the end of season 7 of stargate sg1 was woolsey the one who wanted to close stargate activity or at least he was turned around :D

but well the cort people looked like more advanced race then farmers cus of there costume designe didnt look so primitive

was good episode just like the sg1 season 7 end episode as showed the clips of the show
and well woolsey was on top of the game as was to expect :D

now the sad part is that we must weight for 2 weeks to see another episode :(

btw this thread is not in the front page as the discussion is directed to episode 511

fumblesmcstupid
October 25th, 2008, 09:21 AM
Boy they kept digging themselves into a deeper hole with all the defending themselves and their actions! :)

g.o.d
October 25th, 2008, 09:25 AM
boring episode

theheartsofatlantis
October 25th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Ok...this post is lame, althought Brian I do agree telling people not to watch Ghost Hunters next week wont hurt GH, they are ratings are very good and they did get a new season.

Daisy: Do you have anger issues?



Brian, telling people not to tune in next friday to Sci Fi is going going to hurt "The Ghost Plumbers", Sci Fi just gave them a fifth Season with 26 episodes and what did Atlantis Get, CANCELLED!!!!!

Sci Fi loves Ghost Plumbers better then stupid old stargate! SCI FI GAVE GHOST HUNTERS A NEW SEASON AND CANCELED SGA! SCI FI LOVES THEM AND EUREKA NAD SANCTUARY BETTER THEN YOU!

Sorry! after watching the garbage to night I decided the show was not worthing watching anymore and I wont wont cry a single tear when it's gone., I"LL PARTY!!!!!

Mitchell82
October 25th, 2008, 09:36 AM
This was definitely one of the best clip eps Stargate has done. Woolsey really came into his own in this one he really is doing a great job IMO. They touched on some of the big issues in this one. Us waking the Wraith, Michael and the Replicators. I really liked how they dealt with both sides of the coin on this one. I could sympathize with both parties points of view here. I could even sympathize with Shiana though she was way too biased to be leading the charges. I like how we kinda cheated our way through the verdict though I think it was obvious to him that we would be better allies than the Genii. I was really impressed with how despite the fact we are indirectly responsible for the situations it did become obvious that despite that we have tried our best to make up for those mistakes and given as good as we've got. Very well done episode.
8/10.

metabog
October 25th, 2008, 09:42 AM
YES! WOOLSEY.

**** YEAH!

He is the best character in Atlantis, seriously. It just felt so awesome when he said he was taking over the trial.

smushybird
October 25th, 2008, 09:56 AM
Brian, telling people not to tune in next friday to Sci Fi is going going to hurt "The Ghost Plumbers", Sci Fi just gave them a fifth Season with 26 episodes and what did Atlantis Get, CANCELLED!!!!!

Sci Fi loves Ghost Plumbers better then stupid old stargate! SCI FI GAVE GHOST HUNTERS A NEW SEASON AND CANCELED SGA! SCI FI LOVES THEM AND EUREKA NAD SANCTUARY BETTER THEN YOU!

I think Eureka and Sanctuary are both excruciatingly boring, but Ghosthunters I like (despite the dorkfest that is most of the team), just because I love seeing the interiors of these beautiful old buildings. It's only a shame they've been let fall to ruin.
Have to admit I also like the EVPs. Spooky. :D

Inquisition was ok--could've been better. Skip the clips and, instead of just bringing Sheppard out to represent everyone, bring the whole team. I agree that Woolsey was good and I loved the tribute to Boston Legal. I think Alan Shore and the original Daniel Jackson would have approved! :)

JackHarkness_Hot
October 25th, 2008, 10:42 AM
I think Eureka and Sanctuary are both excruciatingly boring, but Ghosthunters I like (despite the dorkfest that is most of the team), just because I love seeing the interiors of these beautiful old buildings. It's only a shame they've been let fall to ruin.
Have to admit I also like the EVPs. Spooky. :D

I don't watch Eureka and haven't seen Sanctuary yet however, I love watching Ghost Hunters, I think it's quite an interesting series even though they don't forward their research to third-parties for analysis. Why should anyone "boycott" Ghost Hunters, the show is of different genre to Stargate. It's like boycotting Hannah Montana cos TPTB over at Disney won't remake Chip N Dale.

Mitchell82
October 25th, 2008, 11:08 AM
I think Eureka and Sanctuary are both excruciatingly boring, but Ghosthunters I like (despite the dorkfest that is most of the team), just because I love seeing the interiors of these beautiful old buildings. It's only a shame they've been let fall to ruin.
Have to admit I also like the EVPs. Spooky. :D
Eureka is meh ut Sanctuary is far from boring IMO though Ghost Hunters is very boring.

garhkal
October 25th, 2008, 11:13 AM
and the ridiculous premise of the "trial".

As i posted above, i felt the trial was a long time coming. And in no way was a ridiculous premise.


The main charge was that they take things on themselves and act on them without thinking of anyone else in the galaxy, or being accountable to anyone and this was a very valid charge, but it never really got answered at all.

Too true. I hope at least though, that this has brought to their mind they need to think of ALL the ramifications of their actions before just taking them.


5 min into the epi i was thinking, "where's Daniel when you need him"

Yes.. It would have been great to have him there, especially seeing as how much he show cased his mind in Cor-ai.

theheartsofatlantis
October 25th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Do we have any Lawyers on the forum? It's be nice to have them give some input. Could they really be blamed for Waking the wraith? When Shepperd killed the queen he didn't know that killing the queen meant waking thousands of wraiths,

Oh and the lady who played one of the judges, I saw her in a movie on lifetime today (It looked and sounded like her).

JackHarkness_Hot
October 25th, 2008, 12:08 PM
I seriously doubt real world laws can be used for the likes of out-of this-world situation, lol.

expendable_crewman
October 25th, 2008, 12:26 PM
The sad part was when they were accused of taking risks and making decisions for the galaxy, I whole heartedly agreed. Although she was clearly biased, those were valid points and no one really answered her. Sorry, I did not mean it, doesn't cut it.

I like my heroes human but accountability is a leadership quality. Even reckless Ronon took responsibility when he accidentally led the Wraith to that village. I'd like to see Shep do the same, instead of dismissing the whole matter as some Genii scheme.
I understand what you're saying. We're going through something in my part of the world (oversimplification alert, but bear with me) where some people with the tools and ability and the know-how made reckless decisions and many, many people are paying for it. Oops, they say. Still, there's a lot of pain, a lot that's lost.

Imagine those losses were individual lives and then multiply that by millions.

I wish in last night's ep there was more said. Something besides "not our fault" and "it was an accident" and "but look what we've gained."

Human beings at close range shouldn't measure loss using standards that sound like a "collateral damage" argument. "Collateral damage" is the outsider's verbage, and I can stomach it in this show but so much.

I think that when someone does something in our part of the world that is well-meaning but it leads to one or two deaths, there is uproar and change. When a mistake leads to tragedy far away, the voices of regret are softer, more tentative.

Last night's ep put the expedition in the room with pointing fingers in a story that was about who did what and why.

For myself, I don't see the expedition's mistakes as driven by malice but the argument that the expedition makes decisions without consulting the natives, and those decisions have occasionally backfired, is valid.

It's part of the formula that the show uses to create drama.

To frame the dilemma posed by the ep ... Most governments on Earth wouldn't tolerate comparable losses within their own borders for a single minute.

In last night's ep, I didn't see anything change. I didn't feel the trial was real. And on a personal note, barring the former, I didn't even get a sense that there was real jeopardy. I came away feeling like, yeah, I'd seen another ep and so what?

Delynn
October 25th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Anyone else have flashbacks to Oma Desala's words to Daniel in Meridian? I kept thinking about them during the trial:

"The success or failure of your deeds does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intention of your actions and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way."


I was kind of hoping for a full confession from Woolsey "Yeah, we did it, but with the best of intentions" and that the judges would come to see that their actions, for better or worse, were all done with the intention of making the galaxy a better place.

I guess I'm an idealist =)

JadedWraith
October 25th, 2008, 12:53 PM
I wish in last night's ep there was more said. Something besides "not our fault" and "it was an accident" and "but look what we've gained."

Human beings at close range shouldn't measure loss using standards that sound like a "collateral damage" argument. "Collateral damage" is the outsider's verbage, and I can stomach it in this show but so much.

I think that when someone does something in our part of the world that is well-meaning but it leads to one or two deaths, there is uproar and change. When a mistake leads to tragedy far away, the voices of regret are softer, more tentative.

[...]
For myself, I don't see the expedition's mistakes as driven by malice but the argument that the expedition makes decisions without consulting the natives, and those decisions have occasionally backfired, is valid.

It's part of the formula that the show uses to create drama.

To frame the dilemma posed by the ep ... Most governments on Earth wouldn't tolerate comparable losses within their own borders for a single minute.

In last night's ep, I didn't see anything change. I didn't feel the trial was real. And on a personal note, barring the former, I didn't even get a sense that there was real jeopardy. I came away feeling like, yeah, I'd seen another ep and so what?

That was the problem. Just some frame job with the Genii touch (Wasn't Radim established as an Ally?) Not a real consideration of some collateral damage to the Galaxy. They even regret some future involvement in the local politics. They interfered in the first place. How can they refuse to be involved?




Anyone else have flashbacks to Oma Desala's words to Daniel in Meridian? I kept thinking about them during the trial:

"The success or failure of your deeds does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intention of your actions and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way."


I was kind of hoping for a full confession from Woolsey "Yeah, we did it, but with the best of intentions" and that the judges would come to see that their actions, for better or worse, were all done with the intention of making the galaxy a better place.

I guess I'm an idealist =)
Yeah, some admission of error. Honest mistakes but mistakes never the less.
I think the episode raised a few questions and then did not deliver any answers.

pjt
October 25th, 2008, 01:03 PM
...I love watching Ghost Hunters, I think it's quite an interesting series even though they don't forward their research to third-parties for analysis. Why should anyone "boycott" Ghost Hunters, the show is of different genre to Stargate. It's like boycotting Hannah Montana cos TPTB over at Disney won't remake Chip N Dale.

Well Stargate is ('was' in a short while now) the television show for the people who actually are capable of thinking. Gross Blunders is totally the opposite. Not to mention that a channel like SciFi needs wrestling, para-science besides the SciFi shows just to survive. The next premiere should be 'I'm a celebrity, boink me in front of the cameras with ghosts watching'.

pjt
October 25th, 2008, 01:07 PM
I've actually admired Stargate for putting some effort into the clip shows, it was something new for me: Clip show that doesn't suck.
I don't think this episode was in any sense crucial for the series, but it was even thought provoking on a level.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
October 25th, 2008, 01:07 PM
hrm, think ill skip this one. Never liked clip-shows, always felt like pure filler to me.

SGFerrit
October 25th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Brian, telling people not to tune in next friday to Sci Fi is going going to hurt "The Ghost Plumbers", Sci Fi just gave them a fifth Season with 26 episodes and what did Atlantis Get, CANCELLED!!!!!

Sci Fi loves Ghost Plumbers better then stupid old stargate! SCI FI GAVE GHOST HUNTERS A NEW SEASON AND CANCELED SGA! SCI FI LOVES THEM AND EUREKA NAD SANCTUARY BETTER THEN YOU!

Sorry! after watching the garbage to night I decided the show was not worthing watching anymore and I wont wont cry a single tear when it's gone., I"LL PARTY!!!!!

Get your facts straight love, MGM ended SGA so they could make their new Stargate show. It's so obvious that a 5 year old could see it. There is nothing to really say that the channel wouldn't have continued Atlantis at least until the actors contracts were up had they been given the oppertunity, and we still get a 2 hour movie to wrap things up at the very least.

Oh, and believe me, no one cares what or who SciFi loves, not after the way they've treated some of their best shows over the years. So, go and read up on the facts, go get yourself some English lessons(or are you just drunk?), and come back when you know what you're talking about.


Nice episode, 7/10.

pjt
October 25th, 2008, 01:28 PM
:weiranime34: Don't feed the trolls...

EvenstarSRV
October 25th, 2008, 02:09 PM
I thought Inquisition was pretty good. I wasn't expecting a clip show, so that was a surprise, but a pleasant one since I'm rather fond of clip shows. I thought Woolsey did a great job 'playing the game' at the trial, since it's something that's right up his alley.

I also really liked the female judge, because for all the people and planets who've benefited from the expedition's actions, there are probably also many people who've suffered from them, though usually unintentionally.

I also really liked the Pegasus UN idea, though I wondered why the Travelers weren't mentioned, since they seem to be the strongest military contingent in the galaxy after Atlantis and the Genii.

But I agree with several others about wishing that Teyla and Ronon had gotten a chance to testify, especially Teyla. I thought the look both of them gave McKay when he said something like 'it wasn't all our fault' to be very telling. I thought they were the most qualified to defend the Atlantis expedition as natives of the galaxy. I was also really hoping for some mention of the effects of the Attero device.

I can't really blame the expedition for waking the Wraith, but I personally think Michael is entirely the expedition's fault, and one that's been especially damaging to Teyla. He's kidnapped her several times, sorta experimented on her and her child, kidnapped her people, killed/converted many of them, and is bent on kidnapping her son and using him to take over the galaxy. I would have loved to see Teyla on the stand having to defend the expedition's actions regard Michael. I'd much prefer seeing that to all the clips of Hive ships exploding.

And even though it was a visually cool shot, I didn't really like the ending with Woolsey and Sheppard sharing a drink and cigars. It felt a little too celebratory considering they didn't really 'win' the trial on their own merits. Especially since this is the last season, I was hoping for a more reflective scene. Smoking cigars and toasting each other after having been reminded about all the collateral damage they've caused over years just seemed frivolous and glib on Sheppard's and Woolsey's parts. I don't expect the characters to dwell on their mistakes, but I think after an episode like this they deserved more acknowledgment.


Does anyone know where they got the new gate from... can they just stop by the store and buy a flat packed one...:P


I think McKay said at the end of The Lost Tribe that the Daedalus picked up one of the leftover gates from the gate bridge.

Voxyn
October 25th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Although clip shows bore me almost to death, it was cool to have Mr. Woolsey as the main man for a change rather than Rodney.
And I think he looked uber cool drinking that stuff and smoking that cigar at the end. ;)

O also liked when he stuck with this idea of locking that guy that came to Atlantis up.
:D

But sadly for some unexplained reason the Gate Room was squeaky clean again.
How DO they replace everything like that?
:(

Giantevilhead
October 25th, 2008, 03:05 PM
The Tau'ri are becoming the Asgard of the Pegasus galaxy. It won't be long before they make a Protected Planets Treaty with the Wraith.

Avalonis
October 25th, 2008, 03:42 PM
This was probably one of the best clip shows i have ever seen. Woolsey really shined. It was good to see some of the amazing effects over the years again. I hope it satisfies all the haters who have been crying for the expidetion to be put on trial.


Also, In the last year of the show all the human races of the galaxy are finally pulling together. The federation joke aside, they could be a serious galactic power and challange to the Wraith. What do you get if you shove the Travellers, the Genii and everyone else into a room and tell them to build an empire that can take the wraith? If the milkyway civilizations had done this the Guaould would have fallen in a year or less. Maybe even talk the asgard into the alliance?

Amalthea
October 25th, 2008, 05:23 PM
While I don't really like clip shows, this wasn't bad! Woolsey does well in clip episodes. LOL The character development was good. I like getting the back story for Woolsey. I'm not surprised he was a lawyer. He's all about rules and procedure. And the federation line was just gold. :)

Those Genii are a pain in the arse. Always causing problems. They're like the jealous little brother of the Pegasus Galaxy. It's good seeing them again, though- it feels like it's been a while.

The only thing I didn't like at the beginning was how negative Rodney was! He was so rude about going to see the new coalition people. I would have thought that he would have known by now that you can get interesting surprises from worlds that are less technologically advanced.

Little_McKay
October 25th, 2008, 06:19 PM
Filler episode and total rubbish! There was no sense of real danger throughout and it was entirely old clips save a few seconds of Sheppard/Woolsey and on rare occassions, the team.

Waste of a slot in what is now the final season. It is also fodder for MGM in their decision to cancel as I've no doubt fans will have been lost given how folk have responded to it - wait for next weeks ratings! Maybe it was passable for some, but in a season that has given us such great episodes as, 'The Shrine' or the 'First Contact'/'Lost Tribe' 2 parter - to have something this lame is shocking!

I was at least hoping for a good climax like a breakout or something but we got nothing! They talked to a guy and won the trial with his help. GOD what a formulaic and boring ending!

I've also been discussing this with a lot of my mates and we all agree that the final scene was out of place, it was just a Boston Legal style ending. Sheppard wouldn't smoke cigars and they wouldn't really be celebrating!

Overall a major, MAJOR dissapointment!

To be fair, I always look for something positive during any SGA episode viewing and there was one thing...the trailer for next weeks episode!

the fifth man
October 25th, 2008, 06:43 PM
This episode was even better the second and third time around, at least for me.:D

Pandora's_Box
October 25th, 2008, 07:28 PM
This was probably one of the best clip shows i have ever seen. Woolsey really shined. It was good to see some of the amazing effects over the years again. I hope it satisfies all the haters who have been crying for the expidetion to be put on trial.


That was not a trial.

Briangate78
October 25th, 2008, 08:12 PM
This episode was even better the second and third time around, at least for me.:D

The episode was better the 2nd time around. I did like how Woolsey paid a sort of homage to Weir saying how it cost them someone very important and then it cut to the scene from "Lifeline".

parsnip2009
October 25th, 2008, 08:24 PM
I wasn't that optimistic when i heard this was going to be a clip show, but I have to say I enjoyed it.

With more time it would have made sense to me for Ronon and Teyla to have spoken to the council as natives to the pegasus galaxy. Their opinion would have been welcoming.

I found the current political similarities intriguing, especially as this is something atlantis has tended to stay away from generally. If this was galactica this type of social commentary would have been more expected.

I am of course referring war to the war in iraq, and the question whether the us/uk etc presence has made things worse. (My opinion, in the short term yes, but in the long term the area will be stabilised and much better for the people there) But we can ask the question.

I feel this is also why the writers did not dwell to much into the basis for the trial, and whether they had a case to answer, as to do could be seen as putting the writers opinions forward regarding the 'global terror' conflict.

I found the clips to be entertaining, which is key to a clip show!

It was great to see Woolsey taking an active, and decisive role in the outcome. After all, it seems rather pointless to make such a big deal of him replacing carter pre-season, if he is to have nothing to do.

Overall an enjoyable episode, maintaining the raised quality of atlantis this season.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
October 25th, 2008, 09:26 PM
One thing that stood out: when the representative says there was no consultation or accountability, it sounds like he has a point. But, when you think about it, consultation and accountability would have been impossible with what were, at the time, a bunch of unorganized and unaffiliated villages scattered on different planets.

Ramses818
October 25th, 2008, 09:38 PM
I wonder if they have all this information about differant worlds (Waking the wraith, genii, michael, replicators, todd) why don't they make a mention to the most recent issue of the exploding stargates.

BTW good clip episode but they could have easily enough just done a series of clips with headlines before hand to catch everyone up. It would have been cheaper too.

Overall bad episode and Atlantis has dealt with the wraith so many times why haven't they stolen the technology for a subspace transmitter.

parsnip2009
October 25th, 2008, 09:43 PM
One adverse effect of the clips was how it brought home to me how much the wraith have diluted as a possible threat from their early promise.

The clip of the first wraith queen talking about how they were only caretakers, and know the atlantis team had woken the rest 'all of them!' There was real venom there.

Later we see a clip of Todd spouting some technobabble on his hive ship, acting very much like a commander on the daedalus would. Where has the alien in them gone?

fumblesmcstupid
October 25th, 2008, 09:47 PM
I feel like there was no sense of a dire threat... cause it's the middle of the season so it was like "hey they are DOOMED" ..... nah were just pulling your leg cause next week everything is OKEY DOKEY!

Now if this was the last episode I would have been more worried.

mr_kennedy
October 25th, 2008, 09:51 PM
this episode was ok, i never really liked clip episodes but this was ok



Cigars = WIN

for a while i thought i was watching boston legal :p






not that theres anything wrong with that

Pandora's_Box
October 25th, 2008, 09:57 PM
mr kennedy, I can't believe you forgot Captain Awesome and Casey. :: shakes head ::

Vis Uban
October 25th, 2008, 10:05 PM
This was undoubtedly a good Woolsey episode, but I have to ask the question, why bring him in at all? In th old days, they would have just had one of the team defend their actions, and the leader character would never have even rated an appearance. For example, you wouldn't have seen Hammond, Landrey, Carter, or Weir in such a role, so I wonder whether this was yet another way for TPTB to make Woolsey look better. They have certainly gone to a great deal of effort to make their new characters, Keller and Woolsey, look... well, cooler, for lack of a better way of putting it, by giving them much more attention than I feel is healthy for the show. And while I have nothing against Woolsey per say, this special treatment is something of an insult when I consider that they never gave previous, similar characters like Weir this special attention, despite the fact that they fulfilled the same role. It seems obvious that TPTB can make good storylines for even the leader character, but only if they like them enough to try to get everyone else to like the character too. Again, I have nothing against Woolsey, just TPTB's caprice.

Personally, in all my years of watching Stargate (and I've seen every episode), I've never seen the leader and doctor characters get so much screen time. To be honest, they're trying too hard, those people who don't like the new characters probably aren't going to change their minds, and using the characters more than normal will just be rubbing salt in the wound.

Col.Foley
October 25th, 2008, 10:13 PM
This was undoubtedly a good Woolsey episode, but I have to ask the question, why bring him in at all? In th old days, they would have just had one of the team defend their actions, and the leader character would never have even rated an appearance. For example, you wouldn't have seen Hammond, Landrey, Carter, or Weir in such a role, so I wonder whether this was yet another way for TPTB to make Woolsey look better. They have certainly gone to a great deal of effort to make their new characters, Keller and Woolsey, look... well, cooler, for lack of a better way of putting it, by giving them much more attention than I feel is healthy for the show. And while I have nothing against Woolsey per say, this special treatment is something of an insult when I consider that they never gave previous, similar characters like Weir this special attention, despite the fact that they fulfilled the same role. It seems obvious that TPTB can make good storylines for even the leader character, but only if they like them enough to try to get everyone else to like the character too. Again, I have nothing against Woolsey, just TPTB's caprice.

Personally, in all my years of watching Stargate (and I've seen every episode), I've never seen the leader and doctor characters get so much screen time. To be honest, they're trying too hard, those people who don't like the new characters probably aren't going to change their minds, and using the characters more than normal will just be rubbing salt in the wound.
Woolsey and Keller have been hardly seen at all this season. And, when they are seen, they do get a fair amount of screen time.
But in response. There were two instances, at least, similar to this one, where the leader went off world.
Hammond and the Teldar I believe, aginst the advice of the diplomat.
And Weir with the prison planet. And the Asurans too.

mr_kennedy
October 25th, 2008, 10:16 PM
i believe woolsey has only had like 4 episodes in the whole season?

same with keller aswell i think

Col.Foley
October 25th, 2008, 10:19 PM
i believe woolsey has only had like 4 episodes in the whole season?

same with keller aswell i think
Its hard to really point a finger at which one has had the less screen time this entire season.

mr_kennedy
October 25th, 2008, 10:21 PM
Its hard to really point a finger at which one has had the less screen time this entire season.

indeed

although i think ronon needs abit more screen time this season

Col.Foley
October 25th, 2008, 10:23 PM
indeed

although i think ronin needs abit more screen time this season
Well if you want to get down to it they could all use some screen time this season, except for perhaps Rodney and shep.
Which brings up that other point. I was really happy to see a lot of Lorne again in this episode then we have lately.

mr_kennedy
October 25th, 2008, 10:26 PM
Well if you want to get down to it they could all use some screen time this season, except for perhaps Rodney and shep.
Which brings up that other point. I was really happy to see a lot of Lorne again in this episode then we have lately.

dont worry, from what i hear next episode is his episode :D

Col.Foley
October 25th, 2008, 10:30 PM
dont worry, from what i hear next episode is his episode :D
Really? Cool!
Lorne is my favorite back up team commander in Gate history.

mr_kennedy
October 25th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Really? Cool!
Lorne is my favorite back up team commander in Gate history.

i was about to say dont quote me on that, but you already did so whatever ;)

Col.Foley
October 25th, 2008, 10:41 PM
i was about to say dont quote me on that, but you already did so whatever ;)
:lol:
Oh well. I won't be expecting anything anyways regarding that. I just wish that all the half ***ed rumors I read turned out to be false.
I knew about the Asgard like a month before, saw it on a Wikie article, I thought they were high on something. I was wrong. :( :)

atlantis_babe34
October 25th, 2008, 10:45 PM
i was quite bored with this episode actually. In parts it was good, i.e them having to cheat their way out of it etc etc. but other then that to me there was nothing really interesting happeneing.

Cigars and Whiskey... beuuuuuuuuutiful!:D

Dr Lee
October 25th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Was the middle guy the same guy that played Parkmans dad in Heroes?

tachyonxero
October 26th, 2008, 12:12 AM
This episode was good but also sucked. Watching all those clips from episodes past make me even more sad that SGA got cancelled. Woolsey was amazing, but overall it was a very sub-par episode.

Oka
October 26th, 2008, 04:02 AM
Boring obviously (clip show). Woolsey's performance was good though.

Puddle Splasher
October 26th, 2008, 06:12 AM
I've only read one mention of the continuity disconnect between the gate explosion of 'First Contact/Lost Tribe" and the pristine condition of the gateroom.

I understand the concept of a 'conceit' but sheese... gimme a break.

They've found the place in Atlantis that makes glass windows they are constantly breaking, but they can't find the place to make drones? First, either alot of time had passed between these events, or this ep. is floating out there in the time continuum because no dialogue cues were ever given to place this ep relative to the gate explosion. As a viewer, I take my temporal storyline cues from the dialogue and not the plot, and the stage should be in harmony or provide clues to storyline at hand, but it's too much of a disconnect when there are scenes of the background (gate/control room) looking in perfect order after a super-mego explosion. There was not even any damage to the walls! Where's the crater where the stargate extends below the floor!? Naquada apparently has the consistancy of foam... or circus peanuts. A freakin' stargate blew up and all the gateroom needed were new windows and repainted!!!

More on to what everyone is commenting on....

-Woosley: Good character development. Esp. being willing to employ bribery.
-The judges: Just a *bit* uncompelling. Even that lady recounting her story about her people.
-storyline: found the clip aspect a bit incongruous[sp?] with the trial aspect.
I would have enjoyed Shepard, or even all of the members, retelling their side of the story(s) without the visual clips. This might have left unfamiliar viewers in the dust, but c'mon, it's not like SGA needs to bring in new viewers anymore. + I think it would have flowed better. Would have liked to see McKay be sarcastic to the judges. That would have had viewers disliking the judges, and the intentions of the coalition, in a way that I think would have made the whole situation more compelling. Or... I would have liked an ambiguous result.

PantheraLeo
October 26th, 2008, 07:16 AM
well, personally I think that this episode was sort of a "trial" for the Atlantis Expedition since as we all know SGA is going to end at the end of the season (not that I'm happy about that) and that is sort of like a closure for all the things that have happened in the Pegasus Galaxy. It's sort of a send off and a vindication for the Atlantis Expedition, the bribe notwithstanding

Nusku
October 26th, 2008, 08:11 AM
As soon as a you see a courtroom you know it's gonna be a lame clip show. I know they're part of the budget for American TV shows but still..

This episode was utterly pathetic, boring and dull. The SGA writers have once again demonstrated their total lack of imagination and inventiveness. "Inquisition" is a joke and an extreme insult to the viewers. Could they've cared less about the show?

This steaming pile of dung is not even worthy of a 0/10.

DeeKayP
October 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Overall bad episode and Atlantis has dealt with the wraith so many times why haven't they stolen the technology for a subspace transmitter.

The part about not having a subspace transmitter stood out to me because the Tok'ra have one and it has been used several times in SG-1. Carter even created an Ancient Communications Stone emulator using a Tok'ra long-range subspace communicator to boost the signal, so to speak. It worked so well that Vala was able to communicate through Daniel in "Crusade" when she used the Ancient Communications Terminal in the Ori home galaxy.

That's been 2 years -- it just seems to me that something could have already been developed by this time that is compact (or even subcutaneous like the transmitters used for beaming). IMO, there was no need to go to Todd for such a thing! Earth scientists have been shown to be able to create extremely sophisticated nanotechnology in this show.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
October 26th, 2008, 09:05 AM
I wonder if they have all this information about differant worlds (Waking the wraith, genii, michael, replicators, todd) why don't they make a mention to the most recent issue of the exploding stargates.

The only people other than the Tauri who know that the Tauri were involved are the Wraith, Lost Tribe, and Travelers, and I suppose none of them told the coalition.

Ruffles
October 26th, 2008, 03:26 PM
Some of that was, some of it was not. How was their messing with the reps not their fault, since it was them who brought the asurans down on everyone's head.
Same with michael and the Hoffan drug.

You're correct about them waking the Replicators. However, it was done without malice. The Replicators came after Atlantis once they found out it still existed. Atlantis fought back. When they went to steal a ZPM they took advantage of a situation. Their intention was to fight the Wraith - a plan to save the entire galaxy.

As for the Hoffan drug, that blame lays on the heads of the Hoffans. They are the ones who began the development then spread it amongst their people against Carson's advice. Did Michael make use of it? Certainly. Would he have been able to if the Hoffans had heeded Carson's advice and continued to refine it until it was less harmful to human and Wraith?

And Michael - Carson again was trying his best to save lives - human and Wraith ironically. An experiment went horribly awry but not one meant to kill.


Ok, I have to say it, I know Pandora already has, but come on, I have to. That was a trial? One completely biased judge, one reasonable judge, and one bought-and-payed-for judge? And where was a jury? Shepard didn't even have a defense attorney until Woolsey showed up. Worse, the Pegasus litigation squad kept going on and on about due process! That wasn't due process; it was a drumhead trial! They wouldn't know due process if it walked up and said "I'm due process, but don't worry, you wouldn't know me."

An interesting viewpoint. And one that seems distincly Western. Many cultures on our planet right now do not have the court system you describe. What would make you think it would develop like this in the Pegasus galaxy?

EdenSG
October 26th, 2008, 04:33 PM
While this episode will not go on my top ten favorite list, I really did enjoy it and there were a few bits of information that came out that I find quite intriguing.

On a purely selfish note, one of the reasons I really, really enjoyed this episode is that this past week we had HD TV hooked up along with a DVR and those battle scene clip shots were truly awesome in HD on a large screen HD TV. For that reason alone I could re-watch this episode many times over. :)

On a story note, one of the things I found intriguing about the episode was the fact that some of the races in the PG have formed the coalition. It is a big step forward and an interesting development for the Pegasus Galaxy and I will guess that this is their first coalition.

Another intriguing point is that the Genii are still players – or at least they think they are still players – and they are in a power grab for The PG. This opens a whole new chapter of stories, intrigue and possible plotlines – of course the only problem being that MGM/SciFi/TPTB cancelled the series.

I thought the trial was okay – but I felt it should have been more intense.
I liked the three judges, I thought they represented three opposing viewpoints rather well – the one focused on vengeance, the one on power and the fair minded one. Actually if they were all fair minded and completely democratic I think it would have been most unrealistic. When a new government/coalition forms there is usually a few if not all who are involved for their own personal agenda. If they were all purely altruistic, fair and without prejudice I think it would have been a bit of a stretch. One could say that is cynical or one could say that is realistic. So though they were a bit cliché and predictable, I thought the writers did a good job portraying the judges and having them represent the diversity of opinions that are held within the PG about the Earth expedition on Atlantis.

Loved how Sheppard tried to play the nonchalant defendant as he bided his time looking for an opportunity to escape. He was the typical soldier who was looking for a military strategy to get them out of the situation - but a military solution was not going to work. Even if they managed to escape, that would not have solved the problem – they just would have been essentially fugitives from the Pegasus coalition.

Loved Woolsey in the episode! Diplomat, lawyer, shrewd player – all those skills of his came in handy to outwit and outmaneuver the counsel. In the end his solution did resolve the immediate situation, perhaps not in the most desirable way, but for better or worse it worked - and that is what I liked about it, it was not the perfect solution so it leaves some things unresolved, and thus the possibilities of some interesting stories.

Loved the scene at the end with the drink and the cigar!

SG-Mom
October 26th, 2008, 04:39 PM
[QUOTE=Puddle Splasher;9130377]I've only read one mention of the continuity disconnect between the gate explosion of 'First Contact/Lost Tribe" and the pristine condition of the gateroom.

I understand the concept of a 'conceit' but sheese... gimme a break.

They've found the place in Atlantis that makes glass windows they are constantly breaking, but they can't find the place to make drones? First, either alot of time had passed between these events, or this ep. is floating out there in the time continuum because no dialogue cues were ever given to place this ep relative to the gate explosion. As a viewer, I take my temporal storyline cues from the dialogue and not the plot, and the stage should be in harmony or provide clues to storyline at hand, but it's too much of a disconnect when there are scenes of the background (gate/control room) looking in perfect order after a super-mego explosion. There was not even any damage to the walls! Where's the crater where the stargate extends below the floor!? Naquada apparently has the consistancy of foam... or circus peanuts. A freakin' stargate blew up and all the gateroom needed were new windows and repainted!!!


Seems like I read somewhere that this epi is out of order of when it was planned to be aired - could that account for the lack of damage and for the lack of mention of people killed by exploding gates during the "trial"? Does anyone else remember hearing this or am I just crazy?:confused:

Pandora's_Box
October 26th, 2008, 05:25 PM
An interesting viewpoint. And one that seems distincly Western. Many cultures on our planet right now do not have the court system you describe. What would make you think it would develop like this in the Pegasus galaxy?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a legal system anywhere in the world that isn't based on fairness, objectivity, and the basic precept of "innocent until proven guilty".

If you can, then I'd be very interested to know where.

crowmagnumman
October 26th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Average episode. The best thing about it was Woolsey. He got some time to shine in this episode. Besides him none of the characters did anything interesting this episode.

parsnip2009
October 26th, 2008, 05:54 PM
I don't think that woolsey and keller have had too much screen time. Both Robert Picardo and Jewel Staite are good actors and they have done well with the screen time they have been given.

If anything large ensemble casts can lead to certain characters being overlooked or not developed as fully as we would like.

I think mccay has been the most developed character on the show. I don't think sheppard has really changed at all, and ronon and teyla have probably not been given enough development.

But it could be worse, they could be Harry Kim.

Ruffles
October 26th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a legal system anywhere in the world that isn't based on fairness, objectivity, and the basic precept of "innocent until proven guilty".

If you can, then I'd be very interested to know where.

Based on fairness, objectivity and "innocenet until proven guilty" is not the same as actually functioning that way. I certainly don't know the ins and outs of every court system on the planet, but I've read enough stories on human rights violations in countries such as China, Cuba, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia to know that people are falsely accused, denied legal counsel, and condemned without a fair trial.

But regardless of that, why would you expect the Pegasus galaxy coalition to develop a similar system?

LuxFestinus
October 26th, 2008, 06:09 PM
BOOOORING! :ronananime17:Nothing but a damn clip show. No action. No fighting. Ronon didn't even get to shoot his gun. Nothing dull, boring talking and politics. Woolsey is soooo dull. :rolleyes:

Actually Ronon did fire his gun, several times at the door in the room where the gas was coming in.

On another note, the two judges lack of impartiality is totally believable, at least to me. Look at all the activist judges who do not judge based on the law but on how they feel or even public perception. Look at all the cases that have to go up to SCOTUS to potentially get a fair trial. They can not all be right. I am sure if our judges were quizzed on the State and U.S. Constitutions they would, in large part, score poorly, especially in light of their rulings.

garhkal
October 26th, 2008, 06:38 PM
As for the Hoffan drug, that blame lays on the heads of the Hoffans. They are the ones who began the development then spread it amongst their people against Carson's advice.

Not really. Remember, if it was not for our help they would NOT have even finished the drug. So that blame still goes to us.

Easter Lily
October 26th, 2008, 06:50 PM
The best thing about this episode was the writers giving Woolsey some character development... character development they should have and could have given Weir in earlier seasons.
But the whole trial thing has been done before... better. :(

Jill_Ion
October 26th, 2008, 07:03 PM
I thought this was a very good clip show. :) Letters from Pegasus was better, IMHO, but this was enjoyable - especially since we're looking back 4+ years.

Gotta go - Tabula Rasa starts in 2 minutes (in syndication).

Shep + scotch + moonlight over Atlantis = HEAVEN

fwupow
October 26th, 2008, 11:35 PM
I gave it 4 out of 10 ranking. Can a clip show really ever be better than a 50%?

I thought there was at least one of these every season. Interesting that most of the actors were involved however, since usually the clip shows give the main actors an episode off.

I really won't mind at all if the Jenni, for any reason whatsoever, decide to pull an Asgard in the SGA series finale.

Skydiver
October 27th, 2008, 04:30 AM
it wasn't the worst clip show i've ever seen....but i do wonder why teyla and ronon and rodney were even kidnapped...they were basically forgotten most of the time. (or is this what they taped while rodney and daniel were off in First Contact/lost tribe?

best use of woolsey they've ever had, but it was a boring clip show. and, at the end of the day, they still didn't REALLY have to answer for/account for what they've done.

the inquisitors - partial though they may be - were not making baseless accusations.

the humans really are a lot like their ancient ancestors - we know better, we know right, and here, let us experiment on you to prove it

suse
October 27th, 2008, 05:14 AM
So the kangaroo court talks only to the leader and not to the two PG natives who work with them? Sure... :mckay:

I see no reason they have to honor that agreement, it's not like it wasn't make under duress. I wonder if the woman (who should never have been allowed as a judge) will try to exact revenge herself? She's hate-filled enough to.

I was shocked that some clips were used, considering payment is now due. :P

Wow, lots of time off for most of the cast this ep.

suse

Pandora's_Box
October 27th, 2008, 06:40 AM
Based on fairness, objectivity and "innocenet until proven guilty" is not the same as actually functioning that way. I certainly don't know the ins and outs of every court system on the planet, but I've read enough stories on human rights violations in countries such as China, Cuba, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia to know that people are falsely accused, denied legal counsel, and condemned without a fair trial.

Okay sure, and what do all those places have in common? You said it yourself; the absence of a fair judicial system. Those are countries that commit human rights violations, so clearly there's something about their method of putting people on trial (or not and judging them anyway) that is very wrong.



But regardless of that, why would you expect the Pegasus galaxy coalition to develop a similar system?

A fair question, but then why shouldn't they? The nitty, gritty details don't have to be the same as ours. The terms don't have to be the same as ours, but I firmly believe that an civilized society concerned with the welfare and the well-being of its people will develop a judicial system that is objective and fair.

If this new Coalition of the Pegasus galaxy wishes to remain in power for longer than a couple of years, then they'll develop a fair system of placing people on trial. Otherwise, they're looking at revolt sometime in the near future.

Pajus
October 27th, 2008, 07:45 AM
I have to say that this episode had some very good things in it:
- Sheppard being put on trial (although I still can't understand why he's put on trial by some aliens and not the US military)
- No Keller (always a good thing)
- Almost no McKay (No McKay at all would've been better, but you can't have everything)
- Very good use of Woolsey (TPTWs used him very well)
- Lorne (I'd like to see him more on the show)

But there were also bad things:
- TPTWs stupidity when it comes to the most basic mathematics was painfully obvious
- Teyla and Ronon being wallpapered (as usual)
- No Zelenka (at least I didn't see him)

I'd give it a 6 of 10.

theheartsofatlantis
October 27th, 2008, 09:37 AM
I seriously doubt real world laws can be used for the likes of out-of this-world situation, lol.

I know that real world law can't be used.

Pandora's_Box
October 27th, 2008, 09:39 AM
I seriously doubt real world laws can be used for the likes of out-of this-world situation, lol.


I know that real world law can't be used.

How so?

It is possible to make believable arguments for manslaughter and negligence.

jelgate
October 27th, 2008, 09:56 AM
How so?

It is possible to make believable arguments for manslaughter and negligence.

Yes. What would be the alternative to the manslaughter and negligence. Is it morally worse to the above crimes.

Pandora's_Box
October 27th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Yes. What would be the alternative to the manslaughter and negligence. Is it morally worse to the above crimes.

Can I get a map to that sentence please, jel?

Opposite of manslaughter? 2nd degree murder?

Opposite of negligence? Intent?

Usually intending to kill someone or numerous someones is more "morally worse" than doing it by accident. I should think.

jelgate
October 27th, 2008, 10:04 AM
Sorry I have been up for 24 hours so my mental skills aren't the strongest. Manslaughter and negligence aren't the best examples but sometimes when faced with a choice you have to pick the less of two morally questionable options.

Pandora's_Box
October 27th, 2008, 10:08 AM
Sorry I have been up for 24 hours so my mental skills aren't the strongest. Manslaughter and negligence aren't the best examples but sometimes when faced with a choice you have to pick the less of two morally questionable options.

Of course and I agree that if the alternative to a few people dieing is a lot of people dieing, I would choose fewer people dieing.

And jel? Get some sleep.

Integrabyte
October 27th, 2008, 10:14 AM
What was the purpose of this episode?

jenks
October 27th, 2008, 10:17 AM
Sorry I have been up for 24 hours so my mental skills aren't the strongest. Manslaughter and negligence aren't the best examples but sometimes when faced with a choice you have to pick the less of two morally questionable options.

That's not what happened though. They weren't faced with a dilemma and had to choose the lesser of two evils, they made decided to do something that backfired. People died due to negligence, not because they were knowingly sacrificed for the greater good.

Pandora's_Box
October 27th, 2008, 10:22 AM
What was the purpose of this episode?

Hero worship?


That's not what happened though. They weren't faced with a dilemma and had to choose the lesser of two evils, they made decided to do something that backfired. People died due to negligence, not because they were knowingly sacrificed for the greater good.

I'm not sure if your logic works here. Yes, the Atlantis crew made decisions that backfired, but that in itself is not the definition of negligence or even recklessness. Which is what you would have to prove to get a manslaughter conviction.

I think, considering the circumstances (and this is what makes wartime situations both so unique and so horrible) it is impossible to determine whether any other decision would have been "better" or would have resulted in more lives saved.

Integrabyte
October 27th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Hero worship?

...wasn't it a sitcom/NG documentary?

nx01a
October 27th, 2008, 10:28 AM
I hate clip shows.

The Good:
>I enjoyed this episode!
>Woolsey is simply brilliant! He's a shark who doesn't like to bite too often.
>Considering how much his father meant to him [The Shrine], parting with that watch must have hurt. I hope the whole Pegasus thing is worth it.
>Nice selection of clips! All the booms and bangs! Clip shows can be so boring but, since Atlantis seems to hype the CGI booms and bangs, all the destruction recapped was nice. Drones. Asurans. Sigh
>This is what should have happened to the Ancients in The Return. They should have been held accountable for their actions and made to actively do something about it. I realize you couldn't exactly force them to do anything while they're in control of Atlantis, but someone really needs to rant at one of them for their mistakes. Woolsey raised the issue, smartly.
>Woolsey bribing the judge. He tried to play it above board but, once he found out what the game was, he played it to perfection.
>The mix of motivations on the board [biased, impartial, wants a bigger bribe] was an old standard, but the order of revealing their judgments was different. I expected the impartial/rational guy to be the wild card. Did Woolsey sway him? We knew that the Genii lover was on our side, but it depended if someone else gave him an even bigger bribe to find the Atlantis guys guilty.
>Was that door energy shielded against Dex' gun, or was the energy simply dissipated across the material's surface? Either way, make more doors like that!
>Lorne!
>Federation! Ships!
>What exactly will Atlantis' role be now? Arming the galaxy with P90s? Deploying missions against the Wraith from the gateroom?

The Bad:
>So why didn't Shep defer to the negotiation skills of, oh, I don't know, TEYLA?!?! She may not be a defense attorney but these are her fellow Pegasus residents and she's the best midway between them and Atlantis. She'd know when to shut up and not volunteer information.
>Ronon and Rodney were useless. Seeing them give one testimony would have been hilarious. Rodney'd just annoy them and Ronon'd try to kill them.

The Verdict:
>I usually hate clip shows but this one was enjoyable. Maybe it was the mix of nothing but CGI ship clips and Woolsey's brilliance.

Ruffles
October 27th, 2008, 10:39 AM
Not really. Remember, if it was not for our help they would NOT have even finished the drug. So that blame still goes to us.

It's true that we helped them finish the drug, but I didn't find anything reckless in Atlantis' actions there. They strongly recommended further testing on it. The drug was not ready for use. The Hoffans manufactured and distributed the drug without Atlantis' knowledge. Atlantis shouldn't stop drug testing just because the drug might have side effects. Without that kind of testing, Carson wouldn't have developed the ATA therapy. But short of destroying Hoff themselves, there was nothing Atlantis could do to stop the Hoffans.


Okay sure, and what do all those places have in common? You said it yourself; the absence of a fair judicial system. Those are countries that commit human rights violations, so clearly there's something about their method of putting people on trial (or not and judging them anyway) that is very wrong.

I completely agree. Your question to me was to show places on this planet without due process and a fair legal system. Those of us blessed to live in nations that have them tend to forget that not everyone does. And our justice systems (while not perfect) haven't always been as good as they are now. I don't think you can presume that Pegasus would develop a justice system the same way we have when even places on Earth haven't.


A fair question, but then why shouldn't they? The nitty, gritty details don't have to be the same as ours. The terms don't have to be the same as ours, but I firmly believe that an civilized society concerned with the welfare and the well-being of its people will develop a judicial system that is objective and fair.

If this new Coalition of the Pegasus galaxy wishes to remain in power for longer than a couple of years, then they'll develop a fair system of placing people on trial. Otherwise, they're looking at revolt sometime in the near future.

I agree here too. For them to be a just coalition and govern fairly, they must develop a better justice system than the one on display in this ep. It can be argued that this wouldn't be a typical trial since they knew Atlantis was so superior in weapons and technology. They couldn't very well have a public trial for risk of Atlantis storming in and taking over.

Remember that they were charging the team with crimes against humanity. If they truly believed that Atlantis set out to kill 2 million people then they would have no reason to believe Atlantis wouldn't kill every last one of them to rescue Shep and co.

And I do think a civilized society that wants the best for its people will establish a fair judicial system. But not overnight. They have a lot to learn. There will be squabbling amongst the member worlds, struggles for power, disagreements about who sits on the ruling council and how many votes each world gets.

Woolsey might have save Team Sheppard, but he's going to lose the rest of his hair dealing with this coalition. :P

eye doc
October 27th, 2008, 12:32 PM
I thought the whole premise of the coalition tribunal was a great idea. I was very disappointed by the clips - the episode could have been done without the clips and been much better. The episode also made Sheppard appear less than bright.:<

Integrabyte
October 27th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I thought the whole premise of the coalition tribunal was a great idea. I was very disappointed by the clips - the episode could have been done without the clips and been much better. The episode also made Sheppard appear less than bright.:<

Well...I have to agree with the episode then :D.

morjana
October 27th, 2008, 01:08 PM
SGA - MGM Stargate: Behind the Scenes: Inquisition:


http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=9137456&postcount=472

StarOcean
October 27th, 2008, 01:11 PM
What was the purpose of this episode?

To bring new viewers up to speed.

Everyone was horrible in this episode. It made me cringe that I fast-forward most of it. It came off as a setup to undercut any valid accusations against the expedition. To show that Atlantis shouldn't feel bad about their bad decisions or over the deaths of the Pegasus humans. The Pegasus humans don't deserve to question Lantean decisions because they're not worthy.

And the scenes of Teyla and Ronon implies that they haven't criticize or contribute suggestions in how to avoid these massive mistakes. Which makes me think that the show is telling us that the Pegasus humans are NOT allowed to speak up. Kinda sad.

I set the bar very low for this episode and I'm amazed how much lower TPTB went.

I do like how Woolsey mentioned Todd. But it seems wrong somehow to tell the Coalition what they've named him.

EvenstarSRV
October 27th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I do like how Woolsey mentioned Todd. But it seems wrong somehow to tell the Coalition what they've named him.

What I found kinda odd about that was that Woolsey seemed surprised that Todd wasn't answering his calls, so to speak. Considering the last time Atlantis dealt with Todd he took over the Daedalus, threatened Woolsey's life, and then set the ship on a collision course with no regard for the lives of the humans still on board. Does Woolsey really think that they still have an alliance with Todd? :confused:

StarOcean
October 27th, 2008, 03:29 PM
What I found kinda odd about that was that Woolsey seemed surprised that Todd wasn't answering his calls, so to speak. Considering the last time Atlantis dealt with Todd he took over the Daedalus, threatened Woolsey's life, and then set the ship on a collision course with no regard for the lives of the humans still on board. Does Woolsey really think that they still have an alliance with Todd? :confused:

I didn't get that impression that Woolsey was surprised that Todd didn't answer. I do like that the scene shows Woolsey understands Todd's actions. Hopefully, this means that there will be future dealings, and an attempt to rebuild the alliance and "trust" between them. And I'm really hoping both of them not restart on a shaky foundation (again) by forcing Todd (or the Lanteans) to security measures that discourages trust.

And Sheppard's reaction to Woolsey saying that subspace tracking device was Wraith tech amused me. Me thinks Sheppard has gotten so used to Todd and seeing that tech used that he's forgotten that Atlantis doesn't have that tech.

In fact, I see Inquisition as all about their relationship. Sheppard's pissy because the Coalition interrupted his plotting in how to get Todd back. Woolsey has got to get Sheppard exonerated so that they can go after Todd and make up. His defense of Todd was to begin the Pegasus humans to accept their relationship with Todd. The end scene is congratulating themselves in lessening the threat the Coalition poses to their relationship and plotting together how to go after their errant Wraith. Yup. (I can't stay disappointed and frustrated with this episode because I keep cracking up thinking this way.)

EvenstarSRV
October 27th, 2008, 06:01 PM
I didn't get that impression that Woolsey was surprised that Todd didn't answer. I do like that the scene shows Woolsey understands Todd's actions. Hopefully, this means that there will be future dealings, and an attempt to rebuild the alliance and "trust" between them. And I'm really hoping both of them not restart on a shaky foundation (again) by forcing Todd (or the Lanteans) to security measures that discourages trust.


In response to Sheppard asking about the subspace tracking device:


WOOLSEY: I even tried to contact Todd to see if we could borrow one but he never responded.

Maybe surprised was not the best way to described it, but it just seemed weird to me that Woolsey would think there was even the slightest chance Todd would voluntarily help the expedition after the events of First Contact and The Lost Tribe.

Todd thinks Atlantis betrayed him and destroyed two of his ships, and then Todd almost killed a lot of Atlantis expedition members including Woolsey. I would think that trust would be at an all-time low between both parties.

PantheraLeo
October 27th, 2008, 07:02 PM
well, Woolsey was desperate. I guess he didn't have much of a choice. Besides, I guess he kind of knew that the whole episode was a misunderstanding.

Lythisrose
October 27th, 2008, 07:54 PM
It would perhaps have been interesting if the show had hired a real defense attorney and prosecuter, have them look at the last four and a half seasons and then set forth their arguments. I bet more than a few attorneys would get a kick out of it. :)
The writers could then have used these arguments and based a good script on them.
'Cause I can see legitimate arguments on both sides, and it would have been good to see a serious examination of the consequences of the Atlantis expedition's effect on the Pegasus galaxy inhabitants.

JPS
October 28th, 2008, 05:04 AM
FINALLY!!! Another episode with Lorne!!! Any episode with Lorne is at the top of my list. It was a good one for the Woolsey character too...first one he's really had a chance to show his "negotiative savvy".

Integrabyte
October 28th, 2008, 05:06 AM
It was a Trek remake :P. Q judged Picard...yadda yadda yadda :P.

jelgate
October 28th, 2008, 05:12 AM
It was a Trek remake :P. Q judged Picard...yadda yadda yadda :P.

I didn't know the coalition was omnipotent:P

Jill_Ion
October 28th, 2008, 05:15 AM
I didn't know the coalition was omnipotent:P

I didn't either! Wow, that's pretty impressive for a brand new coalition.

It really wasn't anything like Q v. Picard.

Jill_Ion
October 28th, 2008, 05:17 AM
It would perhaps have been interesting if the show had hired a real defense attorney and prosecuter, have them look at the last four and a half seasons and then set forth their arguments. I bet more than a few attorneys would get a kick out of it. :)
The writers could then have used these arguments and based a good script on them.
'Cause I can see legitimate arguments on both sides, and it would have been good to see a serious examination of the consequences of the Atlantis expedition's effect on the Pegasus galaxy inhabitants.

I see what you're saying, Lythisrose. That would've been interesting.

Integrabyte
October 28th, 2008, 05:19 AM
It really wasn't anything like Q v. Picard.

Same premise. Cause and effect.

ddc
October 28th, 2008, 05:21 AM
Do we have any Lawyers on the forum? It's be nice to have them give some input. Could they really be blamed for Waking the wraith? When Shepperd killed the queen he didn't know that killing the queen meant waking thousands of wraiths,

Oh and the lady who played one of the judges, I saw her in a movie on lifetime today (It looked and sounded like her).

This wasn't a fair trial and wasn't meant to be. That's reflected in the title, Inquisition. The new coalition was looking for someone to blame for what they percieve as everything having gone wrong in the last 5 years, probably to appease their member planets, and the Atlantis Expedition, being outsiders, was a convenient scapegoat. They were blamed but that was not weighed against their efforts to fight the Wraith and fix problems they and others (Ancients, Hoffans) created. If they'd wanted to be fair they could have called in some Travelers, or people from planets Atlantis has helped to testify.

Integrabyte
October 28th, 2008, 05:36 AM
What a load of (*&!&#!!! A bunch of tree huggers form an Alliance to serve their own interests and have the audacity to try and remove the only capable group in the war against the Wraith & co.

I am not defending the episode, far from it, but I cracked up when I saw the accusations and who was passing judgment.


Act 1 :P

Judge : It is your fault you woke the Wraith!!!! DIIIEEEE!!!
Shep: Well, it is a bit more complicated. I just found out I have the ancient gene and Teyla had a bracelet. I was being a gentleman and I picked it up from the mud. How was I supposed to know it was a rigged device to signal the Wraith if the Ancients have returned. You know, in order to use all that Ancient tech you need to have a gene.

Judge: *blank stare, asking for an aspirin*....There is a new race that kills humans...DIEEEE for that!!!!!!!

Shep: They are called replicators and were built by the Ancients. They got pissed with their creators and tried to kill them. We activated the "kill the Wraith button" and they chose a logical course of attack: weaken the wraith by killing people. We had no idea that was gonna happen. But, did you notice that they aren't killing anyone and the Wraith diminished their attacks?

Judge: Well, in the cave I live, we only get MTV so, sorry, I cannot see the results of your actions. So you must DIIIIEEE!!!!! ***where is that aspirin!!!!***



*****technical difficulties****

Integrabyte
October 28th, 2008, 05:45 AM
Act 2:

Judge Judy:The Replicators killed my loved ones. I have been seeking Revenge ever since. You must DIIIIEEEEE for that. I am biased and I am a judge, in yo face :P.

Woolsey: ***drum roll*** Well, there have been casualties on both sides. It is not our fault. We simply wanted to destroy the Wraith.

Judge: If I put a detonator, and the detonator makes chitty chitty bang bang, is it my fault or the detonator's?

Woolsey: The detonator's of course. Following that logic, you must hold the Ancients reponsible for the replicators, the Wraith, etc.

Judge: The ancients are not here to answer. You will answer and DIIIIIEEEE!!!!!!! You must be responsible for everything!!!!! The Genii gave us cookies so we need to make them numero uno!!!!



THE END :P.

Pandora's_Box
October 28th, 2008, 05:45 AM
And you wondered why I hated it.

Are TPTB trying to say that's the best they could come up with?

jelgate
October 28th, 2008, 07:08 AM
Same premise. Cause and effect.

Isn't that that almost all episdoes of most TV shows

fumblesmcstupid
October 28th, 2008, 07:15 AM
I loved Cause and Effect on TNG. I loved how the Enterprise kept blowing up over and over. Data Rocked in that episode!

Pandora's_Box
October 28th, 2008, 07:29 AM
Isn't that that almost all episdoes of most TV shows

You'd think so, wouldn't you. But while most shows are very good at illustrating the causes, the effect part of that dichotomy is sorely lacking.

I exaggerate, yes I know, but there are times when things happen and TPTB just forget about it later on.

Jill_Ion
October 28th, 2008, 11:53 AM
This wasn't a fair trial and wasn't meant to be. That's reflected in the title, Inquisition. The new coalition was looking for someone to blame for what they percieve as everything having gone wrong in the last 5 years, probably to appease their member planets, and the Atlantis Expedition, being outsiders, was a convenient scapegoat. They were blamed but that was not weighed against their efforts to fight the Wraith and fix problems they and others (Ancients, Hoffans) created. If they'd wanted to be fair they could have called in some Travelers, or people from planets Atlantis has helped to testify.

I agree. The Coalition wanted planets to join and was trying to appease those who had suffered the most from the Replicators and Wraith and wanted revenge. Since the Ancients, the Replicators and some of the Wraith are gone/destroyed, some of the Coalition members tried to take it out on Atlantis.

Has there been some iffy actions or unforeseen consequences by Atlantis? Yes, but marooning the Team was not the correct punishment.

nx01a
October 28th, 2008, 12:24 PM
*Looks around and finds it interesting that he hasn't heard any complaints about Shep and Woolsey drinking and smoking in this episode.*

Then again, for a show with brain parasites and people shot in the head... :P

StarOcean
October 28th, 2008, 12:53 PM
It was a Trek remake :P. Q judged Picard...yadda yadda yadda :P.

No it wasn't! You can't compare Encounter at Farpoint with Inquisition! Sacrilege!=O

To be serious: Q's accusations were that humanity, throughout their whole history, caused a lot of pain, evil, are selfish, dangerous, etc. He's a higher power judging us lower beings. So he has all the information. The Genii don't.

And Picard admitted that Q's accusations were correct and didn't try to whitewash humanity's bad side. That humanity did do all that stuff and that they will still do bad stuff. But even though they did bad stuff, humanity also has done some good, and that they were still capable of goodness. Most importantly, they are trying to be better. The people of Atlantis aren't, and also the "trial" was a joke.

Lastly, Q's trial was a test. :)

... and now I'm sad that I donated my Encounter at Farpoint novelization to the library. :(

hisg1fans
October 28th, 2008, 03:17 PM
Felt the same about this episode that I did about Family Ties on SG1. Why in H%%l are they wasting a precious final episode?????!!!!??? A clip show?

I did like seeing 'Darrell' again though. He's cute! :samanime51:

Pajus
October 29th, 2008, 03:22 AM
I agree. The Coalition wanted planets to join and was trying to appease those who had suffered the most from the Replicators and Wraith and wanted revenge. Since the Ancients, the Replicators and some of the Wraith are gone/destroyed, some of the Coalition members tried to take it out on Atlantis.

Has there been some iffy actions or unforeseen consequences by Atlantis? Yes, but marooning the Team was not the correct punishment.

But nevertheless, the Coalition had a very good point. Members of the Atlantis expedition (especially Sheppard) have acted recklessly and got countless people killed. My vote would be guilt with a softer punishment for the actions of the Wraith and guilty with full punishment on Michael.

Dusk
October 29th, 2008, 04:59 AM
Law and Order: Pegasus

I hope SGU builds itself upon a better foundation than Atlantis. I mean, one of the biggest problems with SGA is that it's based in a galaxy where there is one, big, technologically advanced enemy and everyone else is sitting on a medieval privy or drinking ye ale of old. As such, there are only so many stories you can tell before the formula gets boring.

I found the 'victory' scene between Sheppard and Woolsey extremely inappropriate, and having these two as the only speakers during the trial was pure character snobbery.

More to the point, I firmly believe that David Hewlett is the only actor in the show with any actual talent. <snip>... At least with SG-1 I can confidently say that all four original actors were both proficient and, at times, exceptional.

Integrabyte
October 29th, 2008, 07:55 AM
But nevertheless, the Coalition had a very good point. Members of the Atlantis expedition (especially Sheppard) have acted recklessly and got countless people killed. My vote would be guilt with a softer punishment for the actions of the Wraith and guilty with full punishment on Michael.


Yes and no. Shame they made Todd a target. Now everyone knows that there is a Wraith out there hugging the expedition :(. If several factions outside the Alliance find out, Todd will be in Barney :P.

nx01a
October 29th, 2008, 11:54 AM
...and what about the whole 'gates exploding' thing? You'd think that would be high on their list of charges, or, at least, a question to ask them.

"Did you have any part in the destruction of multiple stargates across the galaxy, the stranding of entire worlds and the deaths of many people?"

Integrabyte
October 29th, 2008, 12:06 PM
They have a new gate and they forgot about the whole thing. The Tower was rebuilt...super :).

Jill_Ion
October 29th, 2008, 04:38 PM
Felt the same about this episode that I did about Family Ties on SG1. Why in H%%l are they wasting a precious final episode?????!!!!??? A clip show?

I did like seeing 'Darrell' again though. He's cute! :samanime51:

Cuz they didn't know there wouldn't be a Season Six.

garhkal
October 29th, 2008, 08:16 PM
Yes and no. Shame they made Todd a target. Now everyone knows that there is a Wraith out there hugging the expedition :(. If several factions outside the Alliance find out, Todd will be in Barney :P.

That would be an interesting thing to happen.. one of the coalition mentions it around the camp fire and a wraith worshipper puts it out on the wraith net.

Integrabyte
October 30th, 2008, 03:21 AM
I am so pissed because of that.

Jill_Ion
October 30th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Does anyone know what letters were on the back of the Inquisitors' chairs? Is it FOB (Friends of Brad?)?

Jill_Ion
October 30th, 2008, 11:25 AM
But nevertheless, the Coalition had a very good point. Members of the Atlantis expedition (especially Sheppard) have acted recklessly and got countless people killed. My vote would be guilt with a softer punishment for the actions of the Wraith and guilty with full punishment on Michael.

I'm not doubting the Coalition could call Atlantis on some things that have happened - makes an interesting discussion for sure, but Sheppard isn't responsible for making Michael - that was Carson's project. And Carson had to get the "Okey Dokey" from Elizabeth, not Shep.

Yes, I think Atlantis did make a mistake in experimenting on Michael, but once Michael left, he's responsible for his own actions. Sure, he got screwed over, but lots of people do. Truly horrible and horrifying things happen to people here on Earth every day. Do they all become mass murderers? He can certainly hate Atlantis all he wants - I wouldn't begrudge him that, but his answer, to infect thousands of humans to kill Wraith was OTT, IMHO.

silvercomet
October 30th, 2008, 01:39 PM
But nevertheless, the Coalition had a very good point. Members of the Atlantis expedition (especially Sheppard) have acted recklessly and got countless people killed. My vote would be guilt with a softer punishment for the actions of the Wraith and guilty with full punishment on Michael.

I don't know. Do you really think the actions were reckless? IMO they didn't do the 'bad' things with intention. Surely, they often didn't think about the consequences till the end. But is this reckless? I know, it doesn't matter whether they acted with intention or without - the result is the same in the end. And sadly often bad things are the result of the intention to do something good. It's only human to make such mistakes.

It's hard to decide but I often have a problem with punishment for such things.

And in this case it's true, that the humans probably are the only chance the Galaxy has to defeat the Wraith, isn't it? The good things they have done should definitely be noted.

So, no punishment is o.k. for me. But I'd like to see for the future that they discuss things with the others in the Galaxy instead of thinking they are the only ones who know how to do the right thing.

Jumper_One
October 30th, 2008, 05:07 PM
TBA writes: “1) So, what’s up with the Genii? Thought they were allies when Ladon took over, but seeing what they did in last week’s ep en how the team spoke about them, kinda not anymore?

Answer: 1) What indeed. We were hoping to explore the fall-out from Inquisition in future episode but, alas, it seems unlikely now.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/october-30-2008-author-john-twelve-hawks-answers-your-questions/

Aricosaur
October 30th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Does anyone know what letters were on the back of the Inquisitors' chairs? Is it FOB (Friends of Brad?)?

I was wondering about that too. I assume the chairs are from a prop warehouse and the FOB was "pre-installed." It does make me wonder what the original use of the chairs was and, of course, what the FOB stands for.

EH-T
November 2nd, 2008, 06:30 AM
Can't help but feel a bit cheated. When Sg1 had 22 eps in the early years I accepted the clip show as a necessary evil to save a few bucks so the could spend more on a subsequent blockbuster ep. However, since the Stargate seasons have been cut to 20 eps I feel cheated by a clip show being part of that.

Woolsey saves the day with his legal skills? If I want to see that I'll watch a legal drama. Actually, I should have said "tries" to save the day. In the end he cheats because the whole thing was fixed. Now, they wouldn't have known about the 3rd judge but are we to believe any "federation" would have picked such an obviously biased individual as the female judge?

nx01a
November 2nd, 2008, 06:33 AM
Look at the UN Security Council. What are the chances of Botswana getting a permanent seat on that? I'm guessing she's represents the mindset of that particular group, and they're one of the most powerful *giggle* ones in this 'alliance'.

Jeffala
November 2nd, 2008, 09:21 AM
Entertainment fail.

Integrabyte
November 2nd, 2008, 11:47 AM
Insert coin :P.

Mitchell82
November 3rd, 2008, 08:35 PM
Can't help but feel a bit cheated. When Sg1 had 22 eps in the early years I accepted the clip show as a necessary evil to save a few bucks so the could spend more on a subsequent blockbuster ep. However, since the Stargate seasons have been cut to 20 eps I feel cheated by a clip show being part of that.

Woolsey saves the day with his legal skills? If I want to see that I'll watch a legal drama. Actually, I should have said "tries" to save the day. In the end he cheats because the whole thing was fixed. Now, they wouldn't have known about the 3rd judge but are we to believe any "federation" would have picked such an obviously biased individual as the female judge?

SG-1 had 5 in 10 years that's not a big deal and they were entertaining. This was only Atlantis's second and it was entertaining as well IMO. As to the last part have you actually looked at how biased the justice system is in the real world?

g.o.d
November 3rd, 2008, 09:35 PM
I hate to admit it, but this episode should have been for Teyla instead of Woolsey. Look, she's from PG, leader of her people, knows many different cultures, knows what expedition has done in the past 5 years, knows how were the circumstances and more importantly, that council would have accepted her more than some off-worlder...

Jeffala
November 3rd, 2008, 10:26 PM
I hate to admit it, but this episode should have been for Teyla instead of Woolsey. Look, she's from PG, leader of her people, knows many different cultures, knows what expedition has done in the past 5 years, knows how were the circumstances and more importantly, that council would have accepted her more than some off-worlder...

Or would they have considered her a traitor and/or collaborator? She was a willing participant in their "crimes" after all.

Integrabyte
November 4th, 2008, 01:18 AM
I hate to admit it, but this episode should have been for Teyla instead of Woolsey. Look, she's from PG, leader of her people, knows many different cultures, knows what expedition has done in the past 5 years, knows how were the circumstances and more importantly, that council would have accepted her more than some off-worlder...

...and how does Teyla tie into Atlantis, the expedition that came from the MW, and IOA decisions?

Woolsey was great and when I saw Sheppard berated I said, it should be Woolsey because he is in charge.

g.o.d
November 4th, 2008, 04:08 AM
...and how does Teyla tie into Atlantis, the expedition that came from the MW, and IOA decisions?

Woolsey was great and when I saw Sheppard berated I said, it should be Woolsey because he is in charge.

she has working with them for almost 5 years and was there when the wraith woke up, witnessed the Assurans, Hoffan druh, etc...holy crap, this is probably the first time tham I am defending Teyla :eek:

Pajus
November 4th, 2008, 04:12 AM
she has working with them for almost 5 years and was there when the wraith woke up, witnessed the Assurans, Hoffan druh, etc...holy crap, this is probably the first time tham I am defending Teyla :eek:

It's the end of the world as we know it

Integrabyte
November 4th, 2008, 04:52 AM
she has working with them for almost 5 years and was there when the wraith woke up, witnessed the Assurans, Hoffan druh, etc...holy crap, this is probably the first time tham I am defending Teyla :eek:

You are doing it for the wrong reasons. Teyla lost her status in S1. She has no authority in matters revolving the PG. The expedition is responsible for everything. She is in the back of the bus. Woolsey is great. Shame they waisted time with Weir :(:(:(:(!

g.o.d
November 4th, 2008, 05:45 AM
You are doing it for the wrong reasons. Teyla lost her status in S1. She has no authority in matters revolving the PG. The expedition is responsible for everything. She is in the back of the bus. Woolsey is great. Shame they waisted time with Weir :(:(:(:(!

I see

Integrabyte
November 4th, 2008, 05:54 AM
Had she left with the Athosians...had she managed to build a resistance, etc, yadda, yadda...do something and not have the same role as a tree then maybe she could have been involved ;).

Mitchell82
November 4th, 2008, 07:39 AM
I hate to admit it, but this episode should have been for Teyla instead of Woolsey. Look, she's from PG, leader of her people, knows many different cultures, knows what expedition has done in the past 5 years, knows how were the circumstances and more importantly, that council would have accepted her more than some off-worlder...
Teyla might be a leader but they were charging the whole expedition and Woolsey is the Leader of the expedition.

Ikaros
November 4th, 2008, 09:08 AM
Had she left with the Athosians...had she managed to build a resistance, etc, yadda, yadda...do something and not have the same role as a tree then maybe she could have been involved ;).

Yeap!!!!
I was re-watching season 1 recently (just because i wanted to see why people said it was the best season..) and it was a totaly different Teyla.
The moment she put on those army clothes she became less interesting.
Not because she became less sexy or anything like it but because she lost her "colour" as an Alien Tribe(planet?) leader. Gradually she lost all sence of "another" calaxy's civilazation memper.
For reasons i can't possibly know, she wasn't what she was supposed to be, or what people expected her to be, after watching the first episodes.

ToMiTa
November 7th, 2008, 07:07 PM
My VERY first post!! I was facinated by those 3 inquisitor chairs, I thought I had seen them in a Masonic Lodge.

They are Knights of Pythias Chairs!! F C B stands for Friendship, Charity and Benevolence;)

Jeffala
November 8th, 2008, 03:29 AM
Watched it again last night on SciFi. The best parts were the flashbacks.

Matt G
November 11th, 2008, 02:27 PM
This ep certainly raised my eyebrows coming into it.

1. Federation reference, not sure whether to laugh or groan with that one.

2. There are certainly enough morons in this reality so the trial was realistic enough.

3. Woolsey you've come a very long way.

4. OK, they have to get involved in the alliance. Fine, better that than Sheppard's team getting dumped on some uninhabited planet with no Gate.

One of the better clip shows I've seen.

Geneva
November 13th, 2008, 05:18 PM
This ep certainly raised my eyebrows coming into it.

1. Federation reference, not sure whether to laugh or groan with that one.

2. There are certainly enough morons in this reality so the trial was realistic enough.

3. Woolsey you've come a very long way.

4. OK, they have to get involved in the alliance. Fine, better that than Sheppard's team getting dumped on some uninhabited planet with no Gate.

One of the better clip shows I've seen.

Definitely agree with you on the 2 and 3. I really like how Woolsey's character has evolved. I didn't like him in SG-1.

The flashbacks were done very well. I enjoyed watching the whole ep.

Integrabyte
November 16th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Star trek!!! :)

Ellaneshka
November 17th, 2008, 05:00 PM
I think this episode could have been done without the clips. If they were trying to get the fans to think about what the characters have done and if it was right I think they could have done it much better.

So true. I waited so long for the next episode, then i was like "nooooo.. a flashback episode!!"

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Behind like wow, I finally watched this .... and I mourn the loss of those precious 42 minutes and 14 seconds.

As far as clip episodes go, this one is by far the worst yet. It hurts to see the beauty of season 1 to 3, and be smacked back into season 5 after the bliss.

Woolsey played the game and cheated - the IOA at its best.

Teyla, Ronon and McKay should have stayed at home. Wasn't like they contributed much anyway, other than being screen filler.

For a family show, it's okay to smoke on TV and to have violence but not to have nudity or the sex-thing... It makes me roll my eyes at the double standard. :rolleyes:

Just another meh-episode.

Edit: Whoever is doing the CG-villages these days, should be fired and send back to school.

major davis
April 24th, 2009, 03:02 PM
clip show. meh. guess they have to save money sometime

Starrtom
November 26th, 2009, 12:50 PM
This episode demonstrates all that is wrong with Season 5, and the decline of Atlantis:(

mrscopterdoc
September 17th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Not a great episode, not even a good one, but Woolsey and Lorne were awesome :D

maneth
March 10th, 2011, 09:14 AM
A decent one and not nearly as bad as I feared. I'm not normally too fond of clip eps. I guess I can't understand the season 5 hate...

Falcon Horus
March 10th, 2011, 09:56 AM
If you're not looking for much - then sure season 5 isn't that bad, I guess.

g.o.d
March 10th, 2011, 10:35 AM
If you're not looking for much - then sure season 5 isn't that bad, I guess.

yeah, in case you're deaf and blind

Falcon Horus
March 10th, 2011, 11:05 AM
yeah, in case you're deaf and blind

:p