Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

John and Elizabeth's Relationship

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    John and Elizabeth's Relationship

    » I think Ghost in the Machine truly finalizes how close John and Elizabeth are/were, whether you ship them or not. No matter what it is, romantic or friends, I don't think anybody can deny how close they were, and it especially shines true in GitM. I don't think John will ever have a leader or friend he can trust and confide in as much as he did with Lizzie; and even in this stage when they doubted it was her I think she truly impacted him at the end.

    » In the scene in the hallways with LizzehFran and Koracen, when John yells at her you can see how she is hurt by his words, but after she fights Koracen and he is on the ground looking up at her you can just see the realisation come to his eyes, as disbelief fades away.

    » The final shot when she walks through the gate -- his facial expression truly shows everything here. Such a woobie -- you can see his eyes well up in this scene. Not crying, but his eyes get all shiny and moist. And I just love how he hovers at the gate once everyone is gone, once again emitting the look that makes me want to ick him up and hug him.

    » So, whether you 'ship' them or not I think Elizabeth will always be John's closest confidant and she is also a reminder of the good days in Atlantis.

    #2
    I AGREE SO MUCH.

    Throughout the whole episode I was John, oh John. He was just so visibly sad/defeated like oh world have I not gone through this already twice.

    I miss the John and Elizabeth relationship because it was different than the other relationships on the show. We just saw different sides of them when they were with each other that we didn't get to see when they interacted with other people.
    sigpic
    My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

    Comment


      #3
      i think this episode would have been an amazing chance to explore that relationship. think about it: weir is back, she isn't john's boss anymore, she's been away from humans and indeed any human contact for a long time and he she is, in a new, younger, hotter body, alone, with john sheppard.

      all i know, is that weeks or months enduring non-corporeal suffering, the first thing i would want after getting a body would be some loving. just a hug even would be like water to someone lost in the dessert.

      that and the two would make one hot couple.

      Comment


        #4
        I so agree with you all! I loved GitM, especially because of their ship! And that last look they gave either at gate, I was like, you can't hide it, guys! Just forget the stupid rules!!! And the next moment she is basicly dead!!! I thought oh that just evil! Let them be, for crying out loud!!!

        Comment


          #5
          you forgot the scene where John ask Woolsey what would happen if one of the replicators wants to stay...

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by grime View Post
            i think this episode would have been an amazing chance to explore that relationship. think about it: weir is back, she isn't john's boss anymore, she's been away from humans and indeed any human contact for a long time and he she is, in a new, younger, hotter body, alone, with john sheppard.

            all i know, is that weeks or months enduring non-corporeal suffering, the first thing i would want after getting a body would be some loving. just a hug even would be like water to someone lost in the dessert.

            that and the two would make one hot couple.
            I'm going to ignore the hotter body comment (there's nothing wrong with Elizabeth's body as we know it through first three seasons, mind you ) - you have an excellent point here.

            I like very much what we got from this unique take on John and Elizabeth relationship. I like how their connection managed to transcend everything that happened in the meantime. I wish we were given more, because I never understood the decision to remove Elizabeth, who was quite unique character on this show. To me, her and John are the heart of the show. I loved their interaction and the way they brought out the best in the other.

            John was suffering so much in this episode. I think that last scene sums it all, he will never get over what happened to her.
            I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by singing_and_dancing View Post
              I so agree with you all! I loved GitM, especially because of their ship! And that last look they gave either at gate, I was like, you can't hide it, guys! Just forget the stupid rules!!! And the next moment she is basicly dead!!! I thought oh that just evil! Let them be, for crying out loud!!!
              Except for the part that you can't kill a replicator by throwing them out into the vacuum. Plot holes anyone? I want him to rescue her. Stupid PTB!
              I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

              Comment


                #8
                one little make-out sesh, ONE KISS, that's all i would have needed!
                that would've made the episode a bit more desperate and twisted ... that would've been so awesome ...

                can i just say: i will never get over losing weir ...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by grime View Post
                  one little make-out sesh, ONE KISS, that's all i would have needed!
                  that would've made the episode a bit more desperate and twisted ... that would've been so awesome ...

                  can i just say: i will never get over losing weir ...
                  That makes two of us. Writing her out didn't improve the show one bit, IMO, and "Atlantis needs a military leader" argument doesn't stand either because we know how Carter went. So, it's okay to have a military leader if he's a male and can be used as a comic relief?

                  I'm glad John and Elizabeth's connection wasn't ignored in this episode. Given how much the writers care about her character (we don't leave anybody behind, unless they're not Ford and Doctor Weir, should be the motto) this episode was actually good, but they still wrote her into a plothole (and John as well because John should be I'm not leaving anyone behind kind of guy or he's suffering a split personality problem. He's not that guy from The Storm/The Eye who was ready to shoot Kolya right between his eyes because of Elizabeth.) So it looks like it's okay that some people are saved, brough back and fought for. Others are expendable and I resent that, especially if they're my favorite characters.
                  I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have to disagree on that "no one left behind" thing; we saw in Adrift that he was willing to sacrifice Elizabeth so that her survival wouldn't endanger the city with the nanites and stuff. Still, it was obvious that it pained him to do so, just as it did here. It's a character trait that IMHO fits his character perfectly. He is the poster boy for "no man left behind", yes, but he's not irrational about it, most of the time. If rescuing someone meant directly endangering the entire Expedition, he's going to think twice about it, no matter who's going to get rescued.

                    That said, I agree that the Shep-Weir scenes in this episode was damn sweet and powerful. Though I don't think there's any romance there (just IMHO), they definitely have one of the strongest bonds on the show. You just know that's true from Shep's expression at the end of the episode.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Why didn't somebody tell me about this thread? stupid vacation

                      Anyway, needless to say, ITA. You can argue about the romance angle. But you can't argue about the caring angle. Though some certainly will try. GitM solidified in every objective mind that John and Elizabeth shared a deep and abiding friendship and he has been and continues to be affected by her loss.

                      Even the latest Stargate magazine says he developed an especially deep bond with Weir and had difficulty accepting her loss.

                      I have wondered also if the darker side of his character and the arguably quieter, more intense Sheppard of S4-5 are a result of his grief.
                      sigpic

                      Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by grime View Post
                        one little make-out sesh, ONE KISS, that's all i would have needed!
                        that would've made the episode a bit more desperate and twisted ... that would've been so awesome ...

                        can i just say: i will never get over losing weir ...
                        That would have been perfect.

                        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                        Why didn't somebody tell me about this thread? stupid vacation

                        Anyway, needless to say, ITA. You can argue about the romance angle. But you can't argue about the caring angle. Though some certainly will try. GitM solidified in every objective mind that John and Elizabeth shared a deep and abiding friendship and he has been and continues to be affected by her loss.

                        Even the latest Stargate magazine says he developed an especially deep bond with Weir and had difficulty accepting her loss.

                        I have wondered also if the darker side of his character and the arguably quieter, more intense Sheppard of S4-5 are a result of his grief.
                        I love how the Stargate magazine keeps giving hints of sparky.

                        I like to think that, whether intentional or not. Plus there is no one Shep can interact with like he interacted with Elizabeth thus we don't get that side of him anymore.
                        sigpic
                        My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ruined_puzzle View Post
                          That would have been perfect.



                          I love how the Stargate magazine keeps giving hints of sparky.

                          I like to think that, whether intentional or not. Plus there is no one Shep can interact with like he interacted with Elizabeth thus we don't get that side of him anymore.
                          See that was my whole point in my last statement. Something has been off about him. Whether intentional or not, I don't know, but off nonetheless. I want to say the spark was missing, but that will probably get me slammed. lol

                          In this case, by spark I think I mean conflict. Time and again we've heard in interviews that there could be no conflict with Sam for various reasons and now we're hearing that the hoped for struggle between Sheppard and Woolsey probably won't happen. John needs someone to argue with and Rodney is not filling the bill. Besides, I think their snark is different. John and Elizabeth had occasional disagreements that should have had more impact on their characters than was written. For example in Hot Zone. I always hoped that they would return to finish that final conversation. She accused him of not trusting her, and his answer was not quite adequate. It should have come up again.

                          Even when they were working smoothly as a team, there was something about them that made the relationship more interesting to watch than John listening to Sam or Woolsey issue orders, turning on his heels and striding off. John seems diminished to me. I can't really explain it and you know how I hate those shippy glasses. But losing her does seem to have changed him. And not for the better IMHO.
                          sigpic

                          Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            it was frustrating to me that john could have just flown out and scooped up franweir in a jumper and had her back ... but in retrospect i understand that he can't. she's just too much a replicator now and the pain of not being able to save her is a fountain of beautiful angst to me!

                            it would be cool to see sheppard kinda lose it and go after her, damn the consequences!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                              See that was my whole point in my last statement. Something has been off about him. Whether intentional or not, I don't know, but off nonetheless. I want to say the spark was missing, but that will probably get me slammed. lol

                              In this case, by spark I think I mean conflict. Time and again we've heard in interviews that there could be no conflict with Sam for various reasons and now we're hearing that the hoped for struggle between Sheppard and Woolsey probably won't happen. John needs someone to argue with and Rodney is not filling the bill. Besides, I think their snark is different. John and Elizabeth had occasional disagreements that should have had more impact on their characters than was written. For example in Hot Zone. I always hoped that they would return to finish that final conversation. She accused him of not trusting her, and his answer was not quite adequate. It should have come up again.

                              Even when they were working smoothly as a team, there was something about them that made the relationship more interesting to watch than John listening to Sam or Woolsey issue orders, turning on his heels and striding off. John seems diminished to me. I can't really explain it and you know how I hate those shippy glasses. But losing her does seem to have changed him. And not for the better IMHO.
                              I think it's called...chemistry. LOL.

                              I totally get you, them just interacting speaking to each other was entertaining enough for me. It was totally in the way the actors chose to play the scenes than what was actually written.

                              See this is what I miss, the teasing.

                              More teasing from Lizzie.

                              John and Elizabeth being comfortable around each other.

                              They were adorable.

                              You know what I loved about this episode, the callback to The Eye. It's good to hear your voice.

                              Originally posted by grime View Post
                              it was frustrating to me that john could have just flown out and scooped up franweir in a jumper and had her back ... but in retrospect i understand that he can't. she's just too much a replicator now and the pain of not being able to save her is a fountain of beautiful angst to me!

                              it would be cool to see sheppard kinda lose it and go after her, damn the consequences!
                              HAHA. Yes I do love the angst but there comes a point when you just have to have a happy ending. I hope we get it for Elizabeth and to some extend John.

                              I want John to go after her too. I hope Rodney is still doing some work with the replicator thing.
                              Last edited by Ruined_puzzle; 12 September 2008, 10:30 PM.
                              sigpic
                              My OTP's LEAP with passion. Weir did it better.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X