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View Full Version : Maybe a Rodney episode...BUT also a Keller episode!



Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 07:53 PM
I think that though this is technically a Rodney episode, I believe it is also a Keller episode. We really see Keller like we never saw her before. She is a lot more confident and she takes charge. She is also a lot my dynamic. And Jewel Staite did a great job!

After this episode, Jennifer Keller is a few notches higher in my book. And that puts her at a pretty darn high notch :jack:


PS: I think Jewel Staite looked great with her hair down and wavy.

naamiaiset
August 22nd, 2008, 08:00 PM
The jump in Keller's confidence was weird to me. She can be nervous and lacking confidence on Atlantis (a basically safe environment), but in a cave on a planet with a wraith outpost/10 000 wraith... she's suddenly confident? I know Rodney's life being in jeopardy factored in, but still...

I cringed at the McKeller ending, the only bad part of the episode to me.

musicahumana
August 22nd, 2008, 08:01 PM
There was a snarkiness and snappiness to her character that I really liked.

Yes, definitely a McKay episode. (And a GREAT one.) But they used it to show some growth in her character.

Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 08:04 PM
Exactly! They is a dynamic character. She cares for/loves Rodney. That alone is enough for a person to change how they behave.

EvenstarSRV
August 22nd, 2008, 08:06 PM
I think that though this is technically a Rodney episode, I believe it is also a Keller episode. We really see Keller like we never saw her before. She is a lot more confident and she takes charge. She is also a lot my dynamic. And Jewel Staite did a great job!

After this episode, Jennifer Keller is a few notches higher in my book. And that puts her at a pretty darn high notch :jack:

I agree, it was McKay-centric but Keller had a very important part to play. I noticed the writers seemed to be trying to address the various criticisms that have been leveled against the character, her having a drink with McKay after Trio, letting Sheppard overrule her in Search & Rescue.

I really think Keller is coming in to her own as a character, and I think Jewel was fantastic in this episode. :)

Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 08:09 PM
Yep! :)


And I think her last scene was perfect!

EvenstarSRV
August 22nd, 2008, 08:17 PM
Yep! :)


And I think her last scene was perfect!

I'm still mixed about a McKay/Keller romance. To me, it wasn't that long ago he was about to propose to Katie, and I wouldn't want this to be some sort of rebound crush on his side.

That being said, I've liked their scenes together, from the snarkiness in Trio to the care and concern in this episode. I also liked that Keller was the only one who thought that McKay could consider a brief return to his senses to be a nightmare rather than a gift.

KindlyKeller
August 22nd, 2008, 08:20 PM
Jennifer was great in this episode. When everyone else wanted the chance to say goodbye (understandably) for their own sake, Jen was thinking about Rodney and how he'd react. And she was right.

Earthgate Ricky
August 22nd, 2008, 08:20 PM
Remember... David/Rodney successfully owns this episode tonight but David/Rodney owns Stargate Atlantis! :mckayanime09:

Pic
August 22nd, 2008, 08:26 PM
Agree

You can see how Keller struggled for Rodney & placed her faith in hard science vs. unknown shrines and the emotional team who wanted a chance to say goodbye. It was like she was the only one to "get it", that Rodney would be horrified.

Absolutely fantastic acting by the entire cast. David Hewlett is made of awesome. So is Jewel :D

Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 08:26 PM
...
That being said, I've liked their scenes together, from the snarkiness in Trio to the care and concern in this episode. I also liked that Keller was the only one who thought that McKay could consider a brief return to his senses to be a nightmare rather than a gift.


Jennifer was great in this episode. When everyone else wanted the chance to say goodbye (understandably) for their own sake, Jen was thinking about Rodney and how he'd react. And she was right.
Both great points.

Remember... David/Rodney successfully owns this episode tonight but David/Rodney owns Stargate Atlantis! :mckayanime09:
Wait what?

Korean_Turtle87
August 22nd, 2008, 09:58 PM
i loved that Mckeller ending :D

Lythisrose
August 22nd, 2008, 10:03 PM
Didn't like the McKeller ending because I'm not a fan of the ship, but I thought Keller was very good in this episode. I like her being a sceptical doctor, but willing to go above and beyond for her patients.

Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 10:06 PM
Didn't like the McKeller ending because I'm not a fan of the ship, but I thought Keller was very good in this episode. I like her being a sceptical doctor, but willing to go above and beyond for her patients.

You have to admire her for that.

fumblesmcstupid
August 22nd, 2008, 10:53 PM
I don't admirer her! She blew off Teyla and Ronon's Knowledge of this illness!

Rodney was going to die anyway what could it have possible HURT?

Oh yeah thats right it saved him!

Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 11:03 PM
I don't admirer her! She blew off Teyla and Ronon's Knowledge of this illness!

Rodney was going to die anyway what could it have possible HURT?

Oh yeah thats right it saved him!

If someone told you that there is a place that magically heals people for a day, would you believe it? I know I wouldn't. Not to mention neither of them were credible. Ronon was 6 when he was there. And besides there were two hives there with thousands of wraith.

And no, the place didn't save Rodney. Keller saved him.

naamiaiset
August 22nd, 2008, 11:11 PM
If someone told you that there is a place that magically heals people for a day, would you believe it? I know I wouldn't. Not to mention neither of them were credible. Ronon was 6 when he was there. And besides there were two hives there with thousands of wraith.

And no, the place didn't save Rodney. Keller saved him.
But, Keller most likely could not have saved Rodney if not for the shrine.

I thought Ronon and Teyla were credible - they are native to Pegasus after all, unlike Sheppard and Woolsey. And with everything else the team has encountered, is a magical shrine really that much of a stretch?

Browncoat1984
August 22nd, 2008, 11:16 PM
I didn't find Keller's jump in confidence this episode odd at all. Keller is suppose to be an excellent doctor, and in this episode she showed that she was. Remember, when we first saw her she wasn't too sure of herself, but wouldn't you be that way if you were in her position? You just learned that there were lifeforms in other galaxies you had never even heard of before and are thrust into a totally alien situation from what you're used to, you're also replacing someone who was also an excellent doctor and much loved by all who knew him...yeah, I wouldn't be quite so confident of myself either.

Then, in other situations, such as when she was trapped on the planet with Teyla being chased down by a strange race of humans, this is a situation she is not trained for, so sure she's gonna be terrified, being on the run in an unfamiliar situation.

Now we have Keller facing the possibility that someone she's come to care for a great deal is going to die. She's had a year to get used to her position as Atlantis' CMO and prove that she is capable of doing this job, so sure she is going to put aside her confidence and bring forth all of her medical knowledge and talent to try and save her friend. This is what she was trained to do, and she's doing it well.

I think that Keller's development here makes sense and Jewel did a great job. Overall, everyone did a great job in this episode and it really was a tear-jerker., and the next new episode looks to be just as good.

Vlad
August 22nd, 2008, 11:16 PM
But, Keller most likely could not have saved Rodney if not for the shrine.

I thought Ronon and Teyla were credible - they are native to the Pegasus Galaxy after all, unlike Sheppard and Woolsey. And with everything else the team has encountered, is a magical shrine really that much of a stretch?

Well that is because we give Ronon and Teyla the benefit of the doubt. Also remember, Ronon was the guy that shot someone who threw him a surprise birthday party and ate jello with his hands.

naamiaiset
August 22nd, 2008, 11:22 PM
Well that is because we give Ronon and Teyla the benefit of the doubt. Also remember, Ronon was the guy that shot someone who threw him a surprise birthday party and ate jello with his hands.
Ronon is also the guy who knew exactly what he was talking about (another example is "Tabula Rasa", Ronon and Teyla knew the cure when no one else did). If it was me, I would believe someone who has lived in the PG their entire life versus someone who has been in the galaxy a couple years. :o

Keller is lucky that she chose to give ronon the "benefit of the doubt".

Kraft
August 23rd, 2008, 02:17 AM
If someone told you that there is a place that magically heals people for a day, would you believe it? I know I wouldn't. Not to mention neither of them were credible. Ronon was 6 when he was there. And besides there were two hives there with thousands of wraith.

And no, the place didn't save Rodney. Keller saved him.

In the world of Stargate it wouldn't be surprising at all. They never said it was magic either.

We've seen in a few SG1 episodes where they've been somewhere and there's something that causes some brain reaction and they can't leave the area, eg. The Light.

They were infact credible, just because he was 6 when he was there doesn't mean he wasn't telling the truth, and it clearly showed he and Teyla were right all along anyway. Why bring these people into the team if they're not going to trust them

Severen
August 23rd, 2008, 02:29 AM
Ronan should have shot Keller in the head right after he dispatched the parasite. Now *that* would be an ending I'd cheer... :)

ozziescum
August 23rd, 2008, 03:05 AM
Keller's character was a huge disappointment in this episode, primarily because she stood against Sheppard and Ronon and Teyla. She knew that her judgment had been influenced by her emotions, and that her motives for not letting them take Rodney to the shrine were partly selfish. Keller also gave up on Rodney when the rest of his team refused to.

If Keller had had her way, Rodney would have died. That's not the sort of thing his character is in the habit of forgiving or forgetting.

Agent_Dark
August 23rd, 2008, 04:55 AM
Keller's character was a huge disappointment in this episode, primarily because she stood against Sheppard and Ronon and Teyla.

so you'd prefer a show where everyone agrees with each other and all is peachy?

musicahumana
August 23rd, 2008, 05:11 AM
I think it's important to remember that Keller and McKay were both on the same side. She knew that he'd be horrified to become himself again and realize that he only had about a day left to live. I believe she said that giving him that time would be torture. And McKay reiterated that when they actually got him to the shrine.

Also, because they're both scientists, they wouldn't put much faith in a "shrine." Not when they've got medical and scientific options to pursue, at least. They were both on the same page, there.

And, sure, perhaps she was feeling personally attached to him. At the very least, it's been shown that the two are friends--something that doesn't seem to come easy by McKay. But she was willing to forego the shrine in order to stick with a) her professional beliefs and knowledge and b) what she knew her patient would want.

But doctors can get it wrong to, and in this case, she did. Apparently the shrine did have some effect on the situation. But she figured it out quickly and solved the problem.

I don't think that she was out of place disagreeing with the others. She was putting the life of her patient first. TPTB did a very nice job at presenting her on the wrong side of a moral dilemma, and then showing how she can maturely turn around and fix it when she realizes the truth.

We've been looking for her to mature, and we've got a bit of that here. Great!

Pic
August 23rd, 2008, 05:38 AM
I have to agree with musicahumana, Ronon, Teyla, Shep, Jeannie, et al were all gung ho for the final 'sane' day with Rodney so they could say their goodbyes. Woolsey even got in the act with his dad, likely musing that if there were a slim chance he too would've liked a chance to say goodbye.

All of which have nothing to do with Rodney's wants. Keller recognized that Rodney would've not liked the idea, he already said his goodbyes. A day of clarity knowing you're going to die is not everyone's cup of tea.

It's not a matter of not entirely believing Ronon and Teyla ~ it seemed rather fanciful (until the radiation and energy levels were detected) & would the myth had been life-saving, I'm sure Keller's stance would've altered a bit.

jtjaforever
August 23rd, 2008, 06:22 AM
I think it's important to remember that Keller and McKay were both on the same side. She knew that he'd be horrified to become himself again and realize that he only had about a day left to live. I believe she said that giving him that time would be torture. And McKay reiterated that when they actually got him to the shrine.

Also, because they're both scientists, they wouldn't put much faith in a "shrine." Not when they've got medical and scientific options to pursue, at least. They were both on the same page, there.

And, sure, perhaps she was feeling personally attached to him. At the very least, it's been shown that the two are friends--something that doesn't seem to come easy by McKay. But she was willing to forego the shrine in order to stick with a) her professional beliefs and knowledge and b) what she knew her patient would want.

But doctors can get it wrong to, and in this case, she did. Apparently the shrine did have some effect on the situation. But she figured it out quickly and solved the problem.

I don't think that she was out of place disagreeing with the others. She was putting the life of her patient first. TPTB did a very nice job at presenting her on the wrong side of a moral dilemma, and then showing how she can maturely turn around and fix it when she realizes the truth.

We've been looking for her to mature, and we've got a bit of that here. Great!


Well said!

This can sometimes be a difficult place, thus the reason why physicians don't often treat their own families, can mess w/the judgement.

bluealien
August 23rd, 2008, 06:27 AM
Well said!

This can sometimes be a difficult place, thus the reason why physicians don't often treat their own families, can mess w/the judgement.


And the same reason why Doctors shouldn't treat patients they have romantic feelings for... it can mess with their judgement. but it looks like TPTB are going to ignore the Doctor/Patient thing..

musicahumana
August 23rd, 2008, 08:25 AM
This can sometimes be a difficult place, thus the reason why physicians don't often treat their own families, can mess w/the judgement.

Very true. This reminds me about that movie with Nathan Fillion, where he's a waitress's gynecologist...most of us would argue that that relationship (in this movie for which I forget the name, something about pies, maybe?) was inappropriate on a professional level. So, yes, I think everyone agrees that there are lines that shouldn't be crossed.

But if you think about it, as his next of kin, Jeannie had the ultimate say...and she was just as emotionally invested as everyone else. And in the end, you can't help feeling something, even if you're the doctor. No matter what happened, emotions would be present in the decision making process.

Keller and McKay aren't romantically involved. (At least not yet.) In a base as (relatively) small as Atlantis, I doubt that it's difficult to resist becoming emotionally attached in some way to your peers. So the line as who should or shouldn't treat who has to budge a little, I think. So far, Keller treating McKay isn't out of bounds.

And even if this wasn't true, it's a TV show, so we've got to allow for a little suspension of disbelief. ;) I mean, who in their right mind would walk through a wormhole that basically takes them apart and puts them back together again? (Same with the ST transporter idea.) A little bit of tweaking regarding rules of conduct pales in comparison. <grin>

It does make me wonder if Keller will have another doctor work with him in the future, though. Perhaps that really cool Asian doctor (again, I've forgotten her name...I'm as bad as McKay!) who pops up every once in a while. She seems pretty cool.

Ethell
August 23rd, 2008, 08:52 AM
I didn't find Keller's jump in confidence this episode odd at all. Keller is suppose to be an excellent doctor, and in this episode she showed that she was. Remember, when we first saw her she wasn't too sure of herself, but wouldn't you be that way if you were in her position? You just learned that there were lifeforms in other galaxies you had never even heard of before and are thrust into a totally alien situation from what you're used to, you're also replacing someone who was also an excellent doctor and much loved by all who knew him...yeah, I wouldn't be quite so confident of myself either.

Then, in other situations, such as when she was trapped on the planet with Teyla being chased down by a strange race of humans, this is a situation she is not trained for, so sure she's gonna be terrified, being on the run in an unfamiliar situation.

Now we have Keller facing the possibility that someone she's come to care for a great deal is going to die. She's had a year to get used to her position as Atlantis' CMO and prove that she is capable of doing this job, so sure she is going to put aside her confidence and bring forth all of her medical knowledge and talent to try and save her friend. This is what she was trained to do, and she's doing it well.

I think that Keller's development here makes sense and Jewel did a great job. Overall, everyone did a great job in this episode and it really was a tear-jerker., and the next new episode looks to be just as good.

This is exactly what I think. Plus, I never felt that Keller lacked confidence when she was faced with a crisis. Sure, in First Strike she tells Elizabeth that she doesn't think she's right for the job, but then when the laser grazed the tower she took charge quickly and efficiently.

So yea, character development, but she had it in her since the beginning I think.

Vlad
August 23rd, 2008, 08:59 AM
...
She knew that her judgment had been influenced by her emotions, and that her motives for not letting them take Rodney to the shrine were partly selfish. Keller also gave up on Rodney when the rest of his team refused to.
...
That is not true. She never gave up on him. And it was the rest of the team that was selfish, they wanted to go there to say goodbye not to save his life. Saving his life was NEVER the intention of the mission. And it was Keller the figured out that it was the radiation that made the bug thing retract. And it was Keller that saved his life.


I think it's important to remember that Keller and McKay were both on the same side. She knew that he'd be horrified to become himself again and realize that he only had about a day left to live. I believe she said that giving him that time would be torture. And McKay reiterated that when they actually got him to the shrine.

Also, because they're both scientists, they wouldn't put much faith in a "shrine." Not when they've got medical and scientific options to pursue, at least. They were both on the same page, there.

And, sure, perhaps she was feeling personally attached to him. At the very least, it's been shown that the two are friends--something that doesn't seem to come easy by McKay. But she was willing to forego the shrine in order to stick with a) her professional beliefs and knowledge and b) what she knew her patient would want.

But doctors can get it wrong to, and in this case, she did. Apparently the shrine did have some effect on the situation. But she figured it out quickly and solved the problem.

I don't think that she was out of place disagreeing with the others. She was putting the life of her patient first. TPTB did a very nice job at presenting her on the wrong side of a moral dilemma, and then showing how she can maturely turn around and fix it when she realizes the truth.

We've been looking for her to mature, and we've got a bit of that here. Great!
QFT

fumblesmcstupid
August 23rd, 2008, 09:24 AM
I love that Jeanie showed up and put Keller in her place! She overstepped her boundaries with Rodney!

Rodney was going to die anyway right?

Jeanie is the next of kin! Period!

Earthgate Ricky
August 23rd, 2008, 09:28 AM
I love that Jeanie showed up and put Keller in her place! She overstepped her boundaries with Rodney!

Rodney was going to die anyway right?

Jeanie is the next of kin! Period!

I love to see Jeanie and Rodney work together. Blames the writers!

Vlad
August 23rd, 2008, 09:50 AM
I love that Jeanie showed up and put Keller in her place! She overstepped her boundaries with Rodney!

Rodney was going to die anyway right?

Jeanie is the next of kin! Period!

I wouldn't say Jeanie put Keller in her place. Keller was the doctor and she did have the last say until Jeanie showed up. And Keller never gave up on Rodney.

txTart
August 23rd, 2008, 09:53 AM
I understand that Keller is a scientist and she didn't believe in whatever power the Shrine had. But I saw her refusal to let Rodney go as being a little selfish - SHE wanted to be the one to save him. Even though she'd been unsuccessful for weeks and he was dying, she still thought she could do it. Thank God Jeannie showed up or Rodney would have died because of Keller's tunnel vision.

Pic
August 23rd, 2008, 10:11 AM
Funny how some see Keller being selfish in not wanting to go to the shrine & other see the team as selfish for wanting to go to the shrine to say goodbye.

I have to restate here that going to the shrine was never about saving Rodney's life. Keller was all about saving Rodney's life. What's the point of a last day if you know you're going to die. Rodney had already said his goodbyes (as he mentions when his wits are returned in the cave). If any selfishness were involved, I think it's the team wanting Rodney 'sane' for one more day. That being said, I'm not sure how selfish anyone really is here.

And don't forget that in the end, both the team & Keller were needed to save Rodney. That was the point ~ "it takes a village", etc ~ cementing Keller as part of the team. Even the Ronon quarrel ended with them respecting the other's role in the chain of events.
Oh, and Ronon using his gun ~ a mandatory piece of action ;)

Amalthea
August 23rd, 2008, 10:55 AM
I loved Keller in this episode. I agree with those of you who said she never gave up on Rodney. She believes in medical science and that science would provide the cure. Until Jeanie showed up, it was her decision and I think she made the right one.

All of us looking from the outside knew that The Shrine of Talus would pan out, but for her, on the inside, it sounded like a superstition and it's wrong to blame her for that. I mean, how would any of us react if someone said a hole behind a waterfall would temporarily cure a loved one?

She was a very impressive doctor in this episode. She stood her ground in the face of people she cares about and when she was outnumbered. That is a very hard thing to do. But she KNEW what Rodney would want and she was right. They were lucky that she and John figured out how to operate on him in the Shrine, otherwise, it would have been a very tragic end to Rodney.

In any case, I like their little budding romance. Sure there are some doctor-patient improper issues, but this happened on DS9 one time. Julian just transfered the care of the patient to one of the other doctors, and voila, problem solved. How do we know that in the weeks between when they started their relationship to the time that he was diagnosed that Keller didn't transfer his care to one of the other doctors?

Overall, very satisfied with that whole dynamic. Give me more! :)

Oh, and does Rodney remember what he said? If not, what will he say when he sees the tapes? If he sees them, I suppose...

EvenstarSRV
August 23rd, 2008, 11:41 AM
I thought Ronon and Teyla were credible - they are native to Pegasus after all, unlike Sheppard and Woolsey. And with everything else the team has encountered, is a magical shrine really that much of a stretch?

I think it would have made sense for Sheppard to believe in the 'magical' shrine, and Woolsey to a certain extent because of his long involvement with the Stargate program. But compared to them Keller has seen far less 'magical' stuff, so I thought it made sense for her to put her trust in science and be skeptical about the shrine.

The way I saw it, Rodney was either going to die with honor and dignity at the shrine after getting a day to be normal again, or he was going to die in Atlantis with Keller trying everything medically possible to save him.

In the end, I think it was a team effort that eventually saved McKay.

It was Ronon and Teyla who helped convince Jeannie and Woolsey to let them take McKay to the shrine, and Woolsey who approved the mission. It was Keller who realized that the shrine gave off radiation that shrank the parasite, which would give her the chance she'd missed earlier to surgically remove it. It was Sheppard to help Keller figure out how to operate on McKay in the cave, and Jeannie who modified the life-signs detector. And finally it was Keller who drilled the hole and removed the parasite, and then Ronon who finally killed it.

I think everyone had a significant part to play in 'saving the day' and that's pretty tough to pull off with so many characters. Great writing on Brad Wright's part.



Oh, and does Rodney remember what he said? If not, what will he say when he sees the tapes? If he sees them, I suppose...

Well he seemed to remember what he said and did when he was really far along in his memory loss after he temporarily recovered the in shrine, so I assume with the parasite removed he would still remember everything.

JohnDuh
August 23rd, 2008, 12:30 PM
They were infact credible, just because he was 6 when he was there doesn't mean he wasn't telling the truth, and it clearly showed he and Teyla were right all along anyway. Why bring these people into the team if they're not going to trust them

You listen to their input, they don't get to be god like dictators where everybody has to listen to them - especially when what the talk about sounds like primitive superstition.

JohnDuh
August 23rd, 2008, 12:32 PM
Keller's character was a huge disappointment in this episode, primarily because she stood against Sheppard and Ronon and Teyla. She knew that her judgment had been influenced by her emotions, and that her motives for not letting them take Rodney to the shrine were partly selfish.


As opposed to everbody else who completely selfish.




If Keller had had her way, Rodney would have died. That's not the sort of thing his character is in the habit of forgiving or forgetting.

Or she was the one who understands him better than anybody else and chose what he would have wanted.

fumblesmcstupid
August 23rd, 2008, 12:39 PM
Unless EVERYBODY wanted Rodney dead! then I guess it's a good thing Rodney went!

Ronon + Shrine = Smart

Jeanie + Next Of Kin = smarter

Keller - not listening to Teyla and Ronon = not so smart

In the end Rodney lived and that is the good part right???

Only to be met with the end of the series.

Hypochondriac
August 23rd, 2008, 12:48 PM
I never did like Keller because of the way she was written, this episode made me dislike her even more.

First of all you don't treat a patient you have romantic feelings for. Feelings tend to get in the way.
Second given all the Ancient tech in the Pegasus galaxy, how did it not occur to her or any of the cast that, maybe the shrine was a piece of Ancient tech.

Thors_wisdom
August 23rd, 2008, 02:29 PM
i enjoyed the way in which both keller and mckay acted especially the ending.

I hope they do get together Rodney deserves some love

Vlad
August 23rd, 2008, 04:36 PM
...

I have to restate here that going to the shrine was never about saving Rodney's life. Keller was all about saving Rodney's life. ...
That is what I've been saying.

...
Or she was the one who understands him better than anybody else and chose what he would have wanted.
Excatly!


I never did like Keller because of the way she was written, this episode made me dislike her even more.

First of all you don't treat a patient you have romantic feelings for. Feelings tend to get in the way.
Second given all the Ancient tech in the Pegasus galaxy, how did it not occur to her or any of the cast that, maybe the shrine was a piece of Ancient tech.
If not Keller then who? She is the best doctor in the galaxy.

ladyjanus
August 23rd, 2008, 06:26 PM
As a former McWeir shipper (still sniffling over that) I have been beginning to get behind the idea of the Ronan/Keller/McKay triangle thing that was looming on the horizon. So what I found interesting was how Keller really wasn't giving too much away about how she felt about McKay's declaration. He says, "I love you," but we don't see her jump in in with a response, one way or the other.

I'd kinda like to see how this plays out. Will she, won't she, which one will it be, and how will the guys' friendship weather the tempest...

hhhhhmmmmmmm?

Orion Antreas
August 23rd, 2008, 08:04 PM
I agree with Vlad a 100%. Excellent episode for Rodney and his development as a character, but it was an awesome development for Keller too. Her character has been growing on me for awhile now, especially since mid-season 4. At the beginning she was annoying, etc, but she grew and that is what I love.

I loved the opening and closing for this episode, especially the closing because it showed her almost in tears when Rodney confessed he loved her. I loved that. Great story telling and a great way to end the episode/story.

Besides a Rodney/Keller episode, there was character development for Woolsey, AGAIN. I love what they have been doing with him too. Showing more compassion and humanity to him. He has a snobby exterior for a reason because he has had a hard life. This wasn't really a "Woolsey episode" but you have to admit there was some serious development for Picardo's character, Woolsey. :P

Excellent episode.

Vlad
August 23rd, 2008, 08:59 PM
...
Keller - not listening to Teyla and Ronon = not so smart

In the end Rodney lived and that is the good part right???


and he is alive because of Keller.

fumblesmcstupid
August 23rd, 2008, 09:27 PM
Nu Uh! He is alive Because Jeanie INSISTED that they take him to the Shrine!

Yes Keller preformed Brain surgery on Rodney, only after going to the shrine! If it wasn't for the Radiation the parasite would not have re-tracked so Keller could operate.

The Shrine fixed Rodney!

kufan76
August 23rd, 2008, 09:42 PM
The problem I have with Keller is, is that she is capable of much more. I recently watched Serenity and she is a really good actress. I can't for the life of me put her character as shy, scared, afraid of her own shadow basically, and has basically no people skills, and set in a way that in my view, Carson Beckett would have never chosen her for a position in atlantis, in fact how could someone like that even agree to go?

This is a little thing, and maybe it's just me, but have you noticed that when she talks she barely opens her mouth like she's cringing at her own words almost.

Her snippiness and attitude were clearly over the top, and way outsider her character. Talking down to Ronon and Teyla was just not right. And when they boarded the jumper, Ronon RIGHTLY questioned why keller was there, because she didn't believe, and she made some snooty comment...I thought she was NOT GOOD in this ep, because it was not in her character at all, they turned her into kind of a snotty arrogant..you can fill in the rest of the blanks...I didn't like her before, now it's much worse. Woolsey should send her packing and get carson back!

I'm not usually this negative, and before now i didn't like keller, but was mostly indifferent. Then I saw her character on serenity...They should have copied that character! That would be far more interesting. I realize that they might have been looking for a different type of doctor, all the doctor's in SGA and SG1 have been very strong characters, right from the beginning. It just doesn't work the other way.

Severen
August 23rd, 2008, 10:28 PM
If not Keller then who? She is the best doctor in the galaxy.

:lol:

The best Doctor in the galaxy? You mean the Doctor who never actually manages to solve any of the medical emergencies without some outside intervention to bail her out? You mean the Doctor who recently covered up her own medical condition that then mutated and put the whole station at risk, and everyone on it? You mean the Doctor who has to be talked into actually trying to save someone's life, even when there's clearly no other option? You mean the Doctor who lets her own personal feelings frequently cloud her judgment?

Oh, yeah, she's a real peach... :P

Korean_Turtle87
August 23rd, 2008, 11:04 PM
I don't admirer her! She blew off Teyla and Ronon's Knowledge of this illness!
I can't blame her. She's a scientist. A scientist would easily blow off something like the shrine has fiction, just like in the real world with God and e volution and all those other controversially fun stuff

Browncoat1984
August 23rd, 2008, 11:13 PM
The problem I have with Keller is, is that she is capable of much more. I recently watched Serenity and she is a really good actress. I can't for the life of me put her character as shy, scared, afraid of her own shadow basically, and has basically no people skills, and set in a way that in my view, Carson Beckett would have never chosen her for a position in atlantis, in fact how could someone like that even agree to go?

This is a little thing, and maybe it's just me, but have you noticed that when she talks she barely opens her mouth like she's cringing at her own words almost.

Her snippiness and attitude were clearly over the top, and way outsider her character. Talking down to Ronon and Teyla was just not right. And when they boarded the jumper, Ronon RIGHTLY questioned why keller was there, because she didn't believe, and she made some snooty comment...I thought she was NOT GOOD in this ep, because it was not in her character at all, they turned her into kind of a snotty arrogant..you can fill in the rest of the blanks...I didn't like her before, now it's much worse. Woolsey should send her packing and get carson back!

I'm not usually this negative, and before now i didn't like keller, but was mostly indifferent. Then I saw her character on serenity...They should have copied that character! That would be far more interesting. I realize that they might have been looking for a different type of doctor, all the doctor's in SGA and SG1 have been very strong characters, right from the beginning. It just doesn't work the other way.

No, they shouldn't have copied Kaylee becuse Keller is not Kaylee. Now, this is just me, and I could be wrong, but I think that may be part of the problem so many people dislike Keller. When they said that Jewel Staite would be playing a genius doctor, people think "oh, its Kaylee on Stargate!" I'm glad they didn't make her that way because then people would be complaining that she is too much like Kaylee. Keller is not Kaylee anymore than Woolsey is The Doctor, Mitchell is Crichton, Vala is Aeryn, or Caldwell is Skinner.

ykickamoocow
August 23rd, 2008, 11:29 PM
Keller is not Kaylee anymore than Woolsey is The Doctor, Mitchell is Crichton, Vala is Aeryn, or Caldwell is Skinner.

And McKay isnt Leon Linden. Though i think it could be interesting to see McKay as a psychopathic killer :)

naamiaiset
August 23rd, 2008, 11:38 PM
I can't blame her. She's a scientist. A scientist would easily blow off something like the shrine has fiction, just like in the real world with God and e volution and all those other controversially fun stuff
Wraith, replicators, alternate dimensions, clones, Keller herself mutating, mystery illnesses... As I said in an earlier post, with everything the team has encountered, Keller (and Sheppard and Woolsey, to be fair ;)) had trouble believing in a shrine?

Vlad
August 23rd, 2008, 11:49 PM
Also Ronnon, and Sheppard wanted to say goodbye. They have given up on SAVING HIM. Keller was trying to SAVE HIS LIFE. And she is the only one who was right about that it would be torture for him.


And to who ever said that Keller made mistakes: Ahh yeah, that is what makes her a great character. She is not a perfect person. Nobody in Stargate is, that is why we love it.

Rodney blew up a solar system. Sheppard put the whole city in ganger by going over Weir's head and exposing the whole city to the nanites. Ronon put the whole team in danger by insisting that his friends can be trusted when the whole team was against it. And Teyla.... well there haven't been many Teyla episodes.

naamiaiset
August 24th, 2008, 12:27 AM
Also Ronnon, and Sheppard wanted to say goodbye. They have given up on SAVING HIM. Keller was trying to SAVE HIS LIFE. And she is the only one who was right about that it would be torture for him.
ronon thought it would be an honourable way for his friend to die. he and sheppard just wanted rodney to enjoy his "last day". at the time, there wasn't a cure, so I see nothing wrong with that. I think rodney will forgive a little torture when it ended up saving his life.


and he is alive because of Keller.
if not for ronon's idea, keller wouldn't have been able to help rodney.

bluealien
August 24th, 2008, 01:21 AM
and he is alive because of Keller.

He would have been dead because of Keller only Jeannie stepped in..

KindlyKeller
August 24th, 2008, 02:21 AM
Keller's character was a huge disappointment in this episode, primarily because she stood against Sheppard and Ronon and Teyla. She knew that her judgment had been influenced by her emotions, and that her motives for not letting them take Rodney to the shrine were partly selfish. Keller also gave up on Rodney when the rest of his team refused to.

If Keller had had her way, Rodney would have died. That's not the sort of thing his character is in the habit of forgiving or forgetting.

What the heck?

The exact opposite happened.

They wanted their last day with them, giving up on curing him, while Jen wanted to try to save him.

As for the last part... again: it was proved that she was the one who was right about what Rodney would have wanted. She said it would be torture from him; he used the exact same word to describe it later.

KindlyKeller
August 24th, 2008, 02:23 AM
I love that Jeanie showed up and put Keller in her place! She overstepped her boundaries with Rodney!

Rodney was going to die anyway right?

Jeanie is the next of kin! Period!

She didn't "put Keller in her place." The two of them had a lot of sympathy for one another's positions.

As for "Rodney was going to die anyway?" How is that a, "yeah, you show her, Jeannie!!" moment? Jennifer was trying to save him, for goodness sake.

KindlyKeller
August 24th, 2008, 02:25 AM
I understand that Keller is a scientist and she didn't believe in whatever power the Shrine had. But I saw her refusal to let Rodney go as being a little selfish - SHE wanted to be the one to save him. Even though she'd been unsuccessful for weeks and he was dying, she still thought she could do it. Thank God Jeannie showed up or Rodney would have died because of Keller's tunnel vision.

It wasn't a matter of being "the one" to save him. Based on what everyone thought of the situation, no one else was TRYING to save him.

I feel like people aren't realizing that Ronon, Teyla, and Jeannie had no expectation or claim whatsoever that the shrine could save him. They thought they'd have their day, and then he'd die.

Jennifer wanted to save his life, and is the ONLY one who knew how Rodney would feel. She proved to be right.

KindlyKeller
August 24th, 2008, 02:29 AM
Nu Uh! He is alive Because Jeanie INSISTED that they take him to the Shrine!


So, he should be angry at Keller for being the only one who was actively trying to save his life, and he should thank Jeannie for choosing the option that she felt 100% certain would kill him.

Yeah, that's sound logic.

KindlyKeller
August 24th, 2008, 02:31 AM
:lol:

The best Doctor in the galaxy? You mean the Doctor who never actually manages to solve any of the medical emergencies without some outside intervention to bail her out? You mean the Doctor who recently covered up her own medical condition that then mutated and put the whole station at risk, and everyone on it? You mean the Doctor who has to be talked into actually trying to save someone's life, even when there's clearly no other option? You mean the Doctor who lets her own personal feelings frequently cloud her judgment?

Oh, yeah, she's a real peach... :P

:lol:

The one who saved his life with a power drill and a life sign scanner and has been shown as nothing but competent in the show?

Yeah, she IS a real peach.

KindlyKeller
August 24th, 2008, 02:34 AM
He would have been dead because of Keller only Jeannie stepped in..

Why is no one accepting that Jeannie and Ronon lucked into it? They'd GIVEN UP.

Everyone keeps saying "Keller's lucky she was forced into it." Jeannie and Ronon are damn lucky the shrine happened to play into saving his life, because if it hadn't, they would have lived the rest of their own lives with the knowledge that one day of sanity before death was TORTURE for Rodney (just as Keller knew it would be).

fumblesmcstupid
August 24th, 2008, 02:35 AM
IF IF IF she had listened to Ronon and Teyla... Everything that happened at the end of the episode would have happened SOONER.

Go to the planet! See the radiation was different and see how it effected the parasite.

And boom she would have drilled a nice scarless hole in Rodney's head that we will never hear about again! ooky parasite oozed out, slapped a band aid on his head an took the party home and got to be happy to not have a funeral!

SHE WAS WRONG!

P.S The first thing Ronon did when Jeanie got there was tell her about the shrine! ( Teyla and Ronon LIVE in the P.G. and know what they are talking about!)

Jonzey
August 24th, 2008, 02:56 AM
I love all these people saying ''oh, it was Ronon and Jeannie who saved her, because it was their idea to go to the shrine''. It's like when someone's trying to open a jar, but they can't, so they get someone else to do it. Then when the other person opens it easily, they claim it's because they loosened it first.

Some people will just hate Keller no matter what happens.

And they're still ignoring this one fact:
AS FAR AS THEY KNEW, THE SHRINE WOULD KILL RODNEY. ALL THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD DO WOULD GIVE HIM ONE LAST DAY. IT WAS NEVER A SOLUTION TO HIS PROBLEM. IT WAS A WAY FOR THEM TO SAY GOODBYE. IT WAS NOT WHAT RODNEY WANTED

Honestly, I wouldn't want one last day of clear thinking to say goodbye to people, that would just depress me. Rodney was so far gone that he could have died peacefully back on Atlantis, while Keller had a few moer days to try and find a cure.

fumblesmcstupid
August 24th, 2008, 05:05 AM
There was no cure for her to find!

Some people are just going to pat her on the head no matter what she does!

It is a good thing they went Right? The Shrine worked (High 5's for Ronon and Teyla and Jeanie) ( 1 and a half for "Tim the Toolman Taylor" For drilling into Rodney's head )

We get 15 more episodes with Rodney!

Hypochondriac
August 24th, 2008, 06:21 AM
I give more credit to Ronon then keller. She has seen things she would have considered impossible before joining the SGC/IOA/Expedition. She should have not dismissed the shrine right away. Almost every season they encounter a bunch on abandoned ancient technology. I also blame the rest of the expedition for not bringing up the point it could be a piece of ancient tech

Vlad
August 24th, 2008, 09:41 AM
ronon thought it would be an honourable way for his friend to die. he and sheppard just wanted rodney to enjoy his "last day". at the time, there wasn't a cure, so I see nothing wrong with that. I think rodney will forgive a little torture when it ended up saving his life.


if not for ronon's idea, keller wouldn't have been able to help rodney.

But the shrine wouldn't have saved his life. How hard is that to understand. They went in there knowing the shrine would of killed him. And if not the shrine, 10,000 wraith might have.


He would have been dead because of Keller only Jeannie stepped in..


It wasn't a matter of being "the one" to save him. Based on what everyone thought of the situation, no one else was TRYING to save him.

I feel like people aren't realizing that Ronon, Teyla, and Jeannie had no expectation or claim whatsoever that the shrine could save him. They thought they'd have their day, and then he'd die.

Jennifer wanted to save his life, and is the ONLY one who knew how Rodney would feel. She proved to be right.
QFT


There was no cure for her to find!

Some people are just going to pat her on the head no matter what she does!

It is a good thing they went Right? The Shrine worked (High 5's for Ronon and Teyla and Jeanie) ( 1 and a half for "Tim the Toolman Taylor" For drilling into Rodney's head )

We get 15 more episodes with Rodney!
No it didn't. The Shrine did NOT SAVE HIS LIFE! I simply presented an opportunity for Keller to SAVE HIS LIFE!

Besides we do not know that she couldn't have come up with a cure or something.

If I ask you who saved Weir's life? Are all of you going to scream Keller? NO! You are going to scream Rodney because her was the one that fixed and reactivated the nanites. But it was Keller's idea.

naamiaiset
August 24th, 2008, 10:03 AM
But the shrine wouldn't have saved his life. How hard is that to understand. They went in there knowing the shrine would of killed him. And if not the shrine, 10,000 wraith might have.
could keller have helped him if not for radiation in the shrine making the parasite leave rodney? probably not. I never said the shrine would have saved rodney's life, but if it was you, would you rather have given him a last day of clarity or let him deteriorate and go "insane" on atlantis? technically, the shrine was exactly what rodney wanted. on the pier, he tells sheppard to remember him as his "genius friend", well the shrine gave that opportunity... but rodney must not have thought of that (which is understandable).


Besides we do not know that she couldn't have come up with a cure or something.
doesn't keller say she'd be unable to cure rodney in the beginning of the episode? she then later said rodney would start going downhill faster and faster. to me, that isn't promising.


If I ask you who saved Weir's life? Are all of you going to scream Keller? NO! You are going to scream Rodney because her was the one that fixed and reactivated the nanites. But it was Keller's idea.
and without keller's idea, rodney most likely would not have been able to. it's also true of ronon's idea and keller's actions, one could not have happened without the other.


I give more credit to Ronon then keller. She has seen things she would have considered impossible before joining the SGC/IOA/Expedition. She should have not dismissed the shrine right away.
:indeed:

EvenstarSRV
August 24th, 2008, 10:45 AM
Re who should get credit for saving McKay. What personally impressed me most about this episode was how every character made a significant contribution to saving Rodney's life:

Ronon: Told them about the Shrine and its effects and convinced Jeannie to take McKay there. Shot the parasite at the end.
Teyla: Backed up Ronon's story about the shrine and also helped convinced Jeannie and Woolsey.
Woolsey: Approved the mission to the shrine even though he still seemed a little skeptical.
Keller: Realized the shrine gave off radiation that shrank the parasite, giving her the chance to remove it. Performed the operation and removed the parasite despite difficult conditions.
Sheppard: Put together plan that would allow them to reach shrine despite the Wraith presence. Figured out how to let Keller operate in cave despite limited equipment.
Jeannie: Trusted Ronon and Teyla about the shrine. Helped Keller figure out the shrine gave off radiation that affected the parasite. Modified the life-signs detector.

So to me, everyone contributed to saving Rodney's life, whether it was done intentionally or incidentally doesn't really matter to me. :cool:

Vlad
August 24th, 2008, 11:18 AM
Re who should get credit for saving McKay. What personally impressed me most about this episode was how every character made a significant contribution to saving Rodney's life:

Ronon: Told them about the Shrine and its effects and convinced Jeannie to take McKay there. Shot the parasite at the end.
Teyla: Backed up Ronon's story about the shrine and also helped convinced Jeannie and Woolsey.
Woolsey: Approved the mission to the shrine even though he still seemed a little skeptical.
Keller: Realized the shrine gave off radiation that shrank the parasite, giving her the chance to remove it. Performed the operation and removed the parasite despite difficult conditions.
Sheppard: Put together plan that would allow them to reach shrine despite the Wraith presence. Figured out how to let Keller operate in cave despite limited equipment.
Jeannie: Trusted Ronon and Teyla about the shrine. Helped Keller figure out the shrine gave off radiation that affected the parasite. Modified the life-signs detector.

So to me, everyone contributed to saving Rodney's life, whether it was done intentionally or incidentally doesn't really matter to me. :cool:

AGREED! And besides this episode started off with me saying that this was a great Keller episode.

PG15
August 24th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Hindsight is 20/20 folks. Remember that.


:lol:

The best Doctor in the galaxy? You mean the Doctor who never actually manages to solve any of the medical emergencies without some outside intervention to bail her out?

You mean her medical team?


You mean the Doctor who recently covered up her own medical condition that then mutated and put the whole station at risk, and everyone on it?

Not this again. She was affected, mentally, by the Seed. It was said right in the episode.


You mean the Doctor who has to be talked into actually trying to save someone's life, even when there's clearly no other option?

When did this happen?


You mean the Doctor who lets her own personal feelings frequently cloud her judgment?

Frequently? And in medical matters? Give me a few more instances of this.

See, I think she was being too hard on herself in this episode, because I have no idea how they could've found out McKay was sick. The scans found nothing, and a small change in personality really doesn't mean much. So he's nicer; well, he just got back from being almost frozen to death, and he himself provided the excuse that he didn't get much sleep or food beforehand. Even the early stages of memory loss wouldn't have been a big deal because we all forget things sometimes. Keller had no one to blame but the the parasite and its effects for how long it took to figure it out.


Wraith, replicators, alternate dimensions, clones, Keller herself mutating, mystery illnesses... As I said in an earlier post, with everything the team has encountered, Keller (and Sheppard and Woolsey, to be fair ;)) had trouble believing in a shrine?

All those things had a basis in science; magic shrines don't.



if not for ronon's idea, keller wouldn't have been able to help rodney.

And if it wasn't for Lorne and that scientist in Runner, we wouldn't have found Ronon.

And if it wasn't for Daniel who saved Lorne's and a bunch of other people's lives from the Unas in Enemy Mine, Lorne would've been killed.

And if it wasn't for Apophis coming through the Earth gate, O'Neill and his men would've never gone back to Abydos to fetch Daniel so he can join SG1.

So apparently Apophis saved McKay.

Or, we can just go with the obvious and say that Keller's surgery was ultimately responsible for saving McKay.

Buuuuut...I'll agree with some of the posters above and say everyone helped. There.


could keller have helped him if not for radiation in the shrine making the parasite leave rodney? probably not. I never said the shrine would have saved rodney's life, but if it was you, would you rather have given him a last day of clarity or let him deteriorate and go "insane" on atlantis? technically, the shrine was exactly what rodney wanted. on the pier, he tells sheppard to remember him as his "genius friend", well the shrine gave that opportunity... but rodney must not have thought of that (which is understandable).

Of course it's understandable, because it backs up your argument. :p

But what Rodney really said was that it was torture. Read into it all you want, but he said it loud and loud.

naamiaiset
August 24th, 2008, 01:49 PM
And if it wasn't for Lorne and that scientist in Runner, we wouldn't have found Ronon.

And if it wasn't for Daniel who saved Lorne's and a bunch of other people's lives from the Unas in Enemy Mine, Lorne would've been killed.

And if it wasn't for Apophis coming through the Earth gate, O'Neill and his men would've never gone back to Abydos to fetch Daniel so he can join SG1.

So apparently Apophis saved McKay.

Or, we can just go with the obvious and say that Keller's surgery was ultimately responsible for saving McKay.
has anyone ever told you, you put too much thought into things? :p


Of course it's understandable, because it backs up your argument. :p

But what Rodney really said was that it was torture. Read into it all you want, but he said it loud and loud.
he might've called it torture, but it still would have given him what he said he wanted earlier in the episode. ;)

PG15
August 24th, 2008, 02:03 PM
has anyone ever told you, you put too much thought into things? :p

Yes. Many, many times. ;)


he might've called it torture, but it still would have given him what he said he wanted earlier in the episode. ;)

Well, I think he thought he already did that; he did say that he already said his goodbyes.

Still, you can't deny what he said about it being torture. ;)

naamiaiset
August 24th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Well, I think he thought he already did that; he did say that he already said his goodbyes.

Still, you can't deny what he said about it being torture. ;)
no... I can't, but he lived in the end. so, he can't hold that much of a grudge, can he? ;)

fumblesmcstupid
August 24th, 2008, 02:26 PM
entering the ring tonight ....in this corner Carrying a Blacken Decker power drill and a life signs detector modified by Jeanie Miller is "Doctor Keller"

In the other corner carrying the only type of radiation that the parasite in Rodney's head re acted to "The Shrine"

taking the first punch is the Shrine going for a BRAIN shot withdrawing the tentacle thingies that have spread throughout Rodney's brain restoring the man back to his ole sweet..uh self! during that time Jeanie, Keller and Rodney saw the Radiation was different

and the crowd goes wild

going in for the kill is Keller and Sheppard! Keller with the power drill and Sheppard with the "GROSS ME OUT THE DOOR I DO NOT NEED TO SEE THE INSIDE OF MY BEST FRIENDS HEAD LOOK OF DOOM"

The parasite has been removed and a total TKO by Ronon with the blaster!

1...... uh right BLASTER!

the whole episode 44 minutes and no scar!


Some people say that Keller saved Rodney.

Some say The Shrine did.

You say tomato! I say tamatoe!

Rodney is alive! Yabba Dabba Doo!

Agent_Dark
August 24th, 2008, 02:37 PM
^wtf

Jonzey
August 24th, 2008, 03:43 PM
I have no idea.

I guess some people will just find any way possible to dismiss Kellers contributions because they hate the character. And apparantly if you don't hate the character you love the character and will let them get away with anything.

Vlad
August 24th, 2008, 04:11 PM
I pretty much agree with PG15 there.

fumblesmcstupid
August 24th, 2008, 05:08 PM
I can see that no one has a sense of humor here!

I see that people have been saying throughout this thread that Keller saved Rodney others say the Shrine did!

I can easily see this as Keller vs. the Shrine!

this was a boxing match between the two versions of the debate I was trying to lighten up the mood...but i guess no one wants to see how this is just going to go on and on.

So lets get back to it...

this was clearly a Rodney episode because he was the sick one andIi still feel the Shrine fixed him and Keller just drilled a hole in his head and let the parasite out.

tag your it!

PG15
August 24th, 2008, 05:29 PM
If Keller didn't do anything and Rodney just stayed at the Shrine, then he'll die. If they never went to the Shrine, then Rodney would most likely die (but we can't be sure of that).

Ergo, they both did their parts.

Browncoat1984
August 24th, 2008, 07:29 PM
You're all wrong. Brad Wright saved Rodney. He's the writer ;).

naamiaiset
August 24th, 2008, 08:36 PM
You're all wrong. Brad Wright saved Rodney. He's the writer ;).
:lol:

Vlad
August 24th, 2008, 10:50 PM
...

So lets get back to it...

this was clearly a Rodney episode because he was the sick one andIi still feel the Shrine fixed him and Keller just drilled a hole in his head and let the parasite out.

tag your it!

Ooo love tag.

Yes it was Rodney episode, but Keller was the secondary episode in this one. Everybody else were just the backup singers.


TAG!

fumblesmcstupid
August 24th, 2008, 11:35 PM
And back up singers Rock!

the Supremes
the E street band
the sound machine
the heartbreakers
the news

lead singers (the Shrine) can't do much without the Band (team)

tag