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DARSFOG
August 11th, 2008, 12:28 PM
I have read through a lot of the threads and nobody else seemed to make this connection. While yes it did have a "Quantum Leap" feel to it, I honestly felt this was more of an "Event Horizon" feel.

Quantum Leap has a guy jumping around through time more than jumping through AU trying to fix a wrong or something.

It also has a slight "Sliders" feel, but that is because they are jumping from different AUs, (which according to "Sliders" Mckay's explanation of staying in the same spot is wrong).

Where I get the whole "Event Horizon" feel is from this...
A ship appears out of nowhere, and is all but abandon. I honestly was expecting to see them step into a room and see Sam Neil burst into flames.
Idk, this episode had a really creepy feel to it that reminded me of "Event Horizon." And along the same lines have a log entry with Mckay saying something like "I created the AUD to reach the stars, but she's gone much, much farther than that. She tore a hole in our universe, a gateway to another dimension. A dimension of pure chaos. Pure... evil. When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was alive!"


However, I will say when they were approaching the landing bay and saw the other jumper, my first thought was the Star Trek:TNG episode that had the an identical NCC-1071-D. The one episode that had Riker, Worf, and I think Data on an away team exploring it. (IIRC). And I will also admit that i did also thing of the Borg too with the bad guys and blinking lights.



Also did the tptb forget about something they established in SG1? No two of the same person can be in the same AU. In Point of View they established with the two Sams, that the one from an AU will suffer from a Entropic Cascade Failure. With the increasingly more episodes dealing with AUs shouldn't they keep that in mind? Just saying...

perkin127
August 11th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Also did the tptb forget about something they established in SG1? No two of the same person can be in the same AU. In Point of View they established with the two Sams, that the one from an AU will suffer from a Entropic Cascade Failure. With the increasingly more episodes dealing with AUs shouldn't they keep that in mind? Just saying...


i agree but seeing as the other sga were dead thus they wouldnt have had the entropic cascade failure and the two sheps were only in the same au for a very short thus they prob would not have noticed this, if they had been forced to stay then there would have been a problem, although u have just made me think about mckay and mrs miller where there is two mckays, mmmm might have to rewatch that

DARSFOG
August 11th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Right, I wasn't really saying this episode they had to worry about it, but i have just noticed in increase in AU based episodes and they seemed to have left out that one small detail.

Also... WHAT IF???? the other team on board the Ded, wasn't dead, since both were not from that AU, would they still suffer from entropic cascade failure, If the Shepperd's team from that AU was already dead? (If that makes since?)

PG15
August 11th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Interesting question.

Not only do the appearances of 2 of the same individuals matter, but also the universe itself. If they continued to jump through realities, each time only staying in 1 universe for a brief while, then I don't think there will be ECF. After all, there is no "Daedalus reality", which is the only constant throughout the episode.

Naonak
August 11th, 2008, 02:05 PM
It took a while for the AU Carter in Point of View to experience Entropic Cascade Failure, but Sheppard's team didn't stay in each reality for very long. Also, in Ripple Effect they explained that none of the AU teams experienced it because the different realities were close to each other... Possibly something to do with quantum. It's quite possible that the AU Daedalus' drive jumps to "nearby" realities.

DARSFOG
August 11th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Alright, I will give you that, BUT... how many jumps can you go and still be in the "similar" AU? If you change one thing each time you jumped, pretty soon you will be out of things that are similar. There is a video somewhere floating on the internet that illustrates my point, I can't find it right at this moment.

And keep in mind these are all based on IF they were stranded in a AU long enough for the ECF to happen.

Myles
August 11th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Alright, I will give you that, BUT... how many jumps can you go and still be in the "similar" AU? If you change one thing each time you jumped, pretty soon you will be out of things that are similar. There is a video somewhere floating on the internet that illustrates my point, I can't find it right at this moment.

And keep in mind these are all based on IF they were stranded in a AU long enough for the ECF to happen.

Well, considering there are infinite AU's out there -WARNING: SPECULATION - it would make sense to jump from one reality to another that is 'closer'.

Thinking of it like a tree that starts the trunk with the big bang, every different event that happens since the big bang creates a branch, with each different outcome to an event, more and more branches form.

AU's completely different then ours(no Earth, no MW, ect) should have split branches billions or more changes earlier. In fact, there could possible be even some 'main' branches that led to to realities like ours with thousands of differences; but also realities very different from ours, but those ones different from ours would have many realties similar to that one. Since early in the universe there would probably only be some many different outcomes possibles(thousands or millions, compared to octillion or more of possible changes today) that there are only so many 'main' realities and that there a millions of variations of those realities.

My point, if your going to jump realities using the branching tree method I speculated above, it'd be more likely to jump to a closer minor branch of the same main branch, then to a completely different main branch that has different physics or whatever.

Sorry for all the technobable

DARSFOG
August 11th, 2008, 03:27 PM
Ahh, The tree branching theory, yes, now that would explain the random possibility that we jump to an AU that is similar to us and thus negate the ECF effect. However, what i am seeing/saying is, When you jump from reality to another, how long before you are no longer in a reality that is similar to "Our own" reality and thus brings down the wrath of ECF.

(lets see if my crude drawing makes sense)
-AAAA----------------
-AAA-----------------
-AA------------------
A---------|-----------
AA--------------------
AAA-------------------
AAAA------------------
Line A is our realty. If we move one line up/down we are in another AU, cont. in that direction wouldn't we get to a point in which what ever line we are on is no longer similar to line A.

Obviously Shep's team only jumped like 2 or 3 lines but if they kept going, wouldn't they not run into that situation? And another thing, How different does the AU have to be from ours? If you look at the differences in Point of View and our reality. Not much was different.

Now, I am no quantum physicist and most of my quantum knowledge comes from what Sci-Fi and TV have taught me. I just like these types of discussions.

PG15
August 11th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Actually, if the ship did jump to the closest reality, then the team wouldn't notice any real difference. I mean, we're talking about a difference of 1 atom being in a different place in the universe being enough to cause it to be a different reality. Relatively speaking, the realities they visted were VERY different.

So obviously the reality drive don't jump to similar realities, but to interesting realities. ;)

DARSFOG
August 11th, 2008, 03:43 PM
So now my question is how different does the AUs have to be from ours to keep the ECF from happening?

Myles
August 11th, 2008, 03:51 PM
Actually, if the ship did jump to the closest reality, then the team wouldn't notice any real difference. I mean, we're talking about a difference of 1 atom being in a different place in the universe being enough to cause it to be a different reality. Relatively speaking, the realities they visted were VERY different.

So obviously the reality drive don't jump to similar realities, but to interesting realities. ;)

True, so you obviously don't jump to the closest reality, but a reality on the same main branch your is on. It'd be similar, but not necessarily the same.


So now my question is how different does the AUs have to be from ours to keep the ECF from happening?

Who knows. The one Sam visited had many similarities to ours, but apparently it was different enough that it caused the ECF. So one could guess it doesn't have to be too far apart.

Myles
August 11th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Ahh, The tree branching theory, yes, now that would explain the random possibility that we jump to an AU that is similar to us and thus negate the ECF effect. However, what i am seeing/saying is, When you jump from reality to another, how long before you are no longer in a reality that is similar to "Our own" reality and thus brings down the wrath of ECF.

(lets see if my crude drawing makes sense)
-AAAA----------------
-AAA-----------------
-AA------------------
A---------|-----------
AA--------------------
AAA-------------------
AAAA------------------
Line A is our realty. If we move one line up/down we are in another AU, cont. in that direction wouldn't we get to a point in which what ever line we are on is no longer similar to line A.

Obviously Shep's team only jumped like 2 or 3 lines but if they kept going, wouldn't they not run into that situation? And another thing, How different does the AU have to be from ours? If you look at the differences in Point of View and our reality. Not much was different.

Now, I am no quantum physicist and most of my quantum knowledge comes from what Sci-Fi and TV have taught me. I just like these types of discussions.

Well, I understand what your saying, but you're assuming every time they jump it gets farther and farther away from our own reality. I think it's more like randomly jumping around in our own 'branch' of reality where things will be different, but not to the extreme. Some realities will be more or less similar then others, but I don't think you'll start jumping to the other 'main branches' of reality where things aren't even close(talking differences in the structure of the universe, ect; not that Atlantis was never found)

DARSFOG
August 11th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Okay, Still... wouldn't even blind jumping around randomly get you to the point where the AUs aren't similar? Lets say you have a sphere. Where you are at the present moment is dead center of the sphere. Now you can randomly pick one point within that sphere and move to it. Now when you move to that point, that point becomes the center. Repeat the process. Eventually you would still come to a point that is no longer similar to the original starting point.

And you also have to remember that there was a AU that didn't have Atlantis on that planet. For all we know we never discovered Atlantis in that AU.

NOW... as i was driving home from work I thought of another thing. ARE different time lines the same as different AUs? If they aren't then how did Danial not suffer from ECF in Stargate: Continuum? Because they were in that "Time Line" for quite some time.

Hmmm... something to chew on.

Opener
August 12th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Okay, Still... wouldn't even blind jumping around randomly get you to the point where the AUs aren't similar? Lets say you have a sphere. Where you are at the present moment is dead center of the sphere. Now you can randomly pick one point within that sphere and move to it. Now when you move to that point, that point becomes the center. Repeat the process. Eventually you would still come to a point that is no longer similar to the original starting point.

And you also have to remember that there was a AU that didn't have Atlantis on that planet. For all we know we never discovered Atlantis in that AU.

NOW... as i was driving home from work I thought of another thing. ARE different time lines the same as different AUs? If they aren't then how did Danial not suffer from ECF in Stargate: Continuum? Because they were in that "Time Line" for quite some time.

Hmmm... something to chew on.
I think of it as being related to the different dimensions thing in the show. There was the one Daniel and his granddad were shifted to in Crystal Skull, and then the other one Sam, Mitchell, and later Daniel were shifted to in Arthur's Mantle. Timelines are similar to one another, but layered differently than alternate universes. Does that make sense?:confused:

PG15
August 12th, 2008, 12:17 AM
Not particularly. :p

In my mind, they're the same. An alternate reality is just a different branch from the reality we know, which means that they had to have a common origin, one timeline that diverged due to some difference, which makes them alternate timelines.

Time and space are interlinked, after all.

DARSFOG
August 12th, 2008, 07:43 AM
Yeah,
That is how i see it. AUs and different Time lines are the same, But are different from other dimensions, or plans of existences.

Jack_Bauer
August 12th, 2008, 07:51 AM
Even Horizon was a terrible movie IMO.

But yeah the ECF thing, i'm getting the feeling its gone the same way as the third shot on the ZAT....

DARSFOG
August 12th, 2008, 11:55 AM
The third shot from the zat isnt gone. They just don't shoot three shots consecutively anymore.

but man... ECF... It is what made AUs impractical!

Jack_Bauer
August 12th, 2008, 07:50 PM
The third shot from the zat isnt gone. They just don't shoot three shots consecutively anymore.

but man... ECF... It is what made AUs impractical!

The third shot from the ZAT gun (the one which disintergrates matter) has been retconned, just like the ECF appears to have been.

DARSFOG
August 12th, 2008, 08:05 PM
when did they do that?

Jack_Bauer
August 12th, 2008, 08:09 PM
when did they do that?

A while back, RCC said it was too convenient for the team so we won't be seeing it again... I think they made a joke about it in '200'

Mitchell82
August 12th, 2008, 09:07 PM
A while back, RCC said it was too convenient for the team so we won't be seeing it again... I think they made a joke about it in '200'

Which makes sense IMO because it makes the threat of dectection minimal at best. I was glad that they didn't overuse that. I also don't agree that ECF has been ignored. I will agree that Event Horizion sucked though.

Col. Matarrese
August 12th, 2008, 11:02 PM
On a related note, Event Horizon has a character named "Dr. Wier". Perhaps a good amount of stuff was pulled from EH for use in Stargate.

DARSFOG
August 15th, 2008, 09:35 AM
A while back, RCC said it was too convenient for the team so we won't be seeing it again... I think they made a joke about it in '200'

They did make a joke about it in 200. I guess i just never really caught on to it.

And Col. Matarrese, Dr. Weir created the Event Horizon, which went into another dimension and Elizabeth Weir headed the "jaunt through the old orifice". Maybe there is a connection there.