Head Sucker---What's it really for?

[Aer'ki]

Why did the MW ancients build the head suckers to turn humans into ancients if the last remaining ancients headed off to Pegasus and did their thing there?

More over, why give all their knowledge and physical abilities to someone they didn't know? If they knew they were dying from the plague and wanted to restart their civilization the hard way then maybe...but it doesn't fit with the whole Pegasus thing.

Is there more to the Head Suckers than a walking talking ancient library?

Spoiler:

My theory is that when the ancients ascended some other ascended beings were waiting for them and restricted their actions. This is why the rest of the ancients died from the plague instead of getting help ascending from their brothers and sisters.

Spoiler:

I think the Head Suckers are a master plan that the ascended ancients slipped to their mortal brethren containing knowledge of the 'booby-trap' of ascension and how to rescue them before the last of the ancients died from the plague.

Spoiler:

Theory---ascension is not the only next step in development. If you don't ascend you can continue to advance and gain some impressive abilities that require a physical body, abilities that can counter energy beings and even be a threat to them.

Spoiler:

Head Sucker is really ingenious, hidden weapon to create advanced ancient that can remain in human form and grow strong enough to fight back against these 'others' and free the ancients who haven't turned shol'va and help the 'others' enforce their non-interference and other dishonorable policies

Spoiler:

These 'others' gave ancients the plague to stop their development before they became a danger to them. The few that ascended were stopped from helping their brothers and sisters ascend and basically enslaved to their 'empire' which, by the way, didn't extend all the way to the Ori galaxy. The Ori knew of these 'others' and were hesitant to move onto their turf, but thought the risk worth it to kill the ancients. This is why Adria didn't want Merlin's weapon completed and fired, for fear of bringing the 'others' down on the Ori...at least not until the Ori had bulked up from human worshipers in the MW.

Spoiler:

These 'others' kill off any species that begins to advance towards a biological or technological level that could threaten them. A few ascendeds they can control, but they don't want anyone gaining powers from the other evolutionary track or gaining tech that could be used against them. This is why they sabotaged the Asgard's DNA to kill them off and made it so they COULDN'T ASCEND, like some of the ancients had.

Spoiler:

Head sucker would also have security protocols that would search the mind of the person in question and give them mental tests to make sure they were worthy and capable before revealing these buried secrets, tests that they wouldn't be aware of unless they passed. Once they proved themselves(virtually) and accepted the burden of what they were being asked to do...the ancient's master plan would begin to take effect in an effort to free them from their bondage and to win this 10 million year war against the 'ascended Empire'

Just an idea I had. I don't like the ascended ancients being the bad guys. After all they killed everyone on the world Orlin had given the advanced weapons instead of just removing the knowledge from their minds. It makes more sense to think their hand was forced in that situation or maybe the 'others' are the ones who killed them.

I'm an Ancient fan, and get tired of having them dumped on all the time. Anyone else in that same mindset?

[Crazy Tom]

I don't know, there were quite a few spisodes that said that you could not continue with advanced powers and abilities but had ot ascend. Tao Of Rodney, the one about Anubis's clone, the ones about go'uld genetic memory, etc.

[stargater1990]

all they are is access terminals that the aincents put in place so that they could find an answer to their problems i mean its way easier than loking through a million pages of info to just stick your head into the machine and use your mind as a search engine. it just wasnt desinged for a phisiology as primitive as ours. so there were unfortunate side effects. nothing more.

[Aer'ki]

I don't know, there were quite a few spisodes that said that you could not continue with advanced powers and abilities but had ot ascend. Tao Of Rodney, the one about Anubis's clone, the ones about go'uld genetic memory, etc.

Tao of Rodney caused him to advance to the point of being able to ascend by screwing with his DNA and that meant he either had to make it or die.

With Caelic(probably not spelled right) they were talking about what was required to ascend, not what would force an ascension.

Don't know anything about the genetic memory and ascension...Which Episode are you refering to?

Also note, the 2nd Head Sucker gave O'neil the healing ability. In the time dialation/ascension village the hot chick told Sheppard that many people gained these advanced abilities right before they ascended.----Then why advanced someone to that point and give them all that technical knowledge if it meant that had to ascend within a year or some timeframe like that? Kind of defeats the purpose of a repository. Also remember, the MW ancients had the advanced abilities and only learned to ascend when they were hit by the plague.

Anything a Pegasus ancient says is suspect...they worshiped the concept of ascension let the galaxy go to crap because of it.

[Aer'ki]

all they are is access terminals that the aincents put in place so that they could find an answer to their problems i mean its way easier than loking through a million pages of info to just stick your head into the machine and use your mind as a search engine. it just wasnt desinged for a phisiology as primitive as ours. so there were unfortunate side effects. nothing more.

That doesn't explain O'neil gaining the ancient healing ability.

[Crazy Tom]

I don't remeber, there was one where the Trust made a gould/human hybrid, and one where two goulds had a kid.

[Crazy Tom]

That doesn't explain O'neil gaining the ancient healing ability.

Maybe the knoledge was the equivalent of 30 years of concentrated meditating sesions.

[Aer'ki]

I don't remeber, there was one where the Trust made a gould/human hybrid, and one where two goulds had a kid.

The one where the two Goa'ulds (Apophis and Amonet) had a harcisus(probably misspelled). Oma De Sala took the kid to protect him and eventually helped him to ascend even as he was a child. He retained the Goa'uld genetic knowledge and had to suppress it so it wouldn't turn him to the darkside.

I don't think there was anything there saying the knowledge forced him to ascend or die. After all, the Goa'uld have the same knowledge in their tiny snake brains and they're not forced to ascend.

[Crazy Tom]

The one where the two Goa'ulds (Apophis and Amonet) had a harcisus(probably misspelled). Oma De Sala took the kid to protect him and eventually helped him to ascend even as he was a child. He retained the Goa'uld genetic knowledge and had to suppress it so it wouldn't turn him to the darkside.

I don't think there was anything there saying the knowledge forced him to ascend or die. After all, the Goa'uld have the same knowledge in their tiny snake brains and they're not forced to ascend.

Touche, I stand corected. But the goa'uld never displayed pre-ascension abilities.

[Aer'ki]

Touche, I stand corected. But the goa'uld never displayed pre-ascension abilities.

Thankfully...though they were trying for a human host who could...the whole haktar thing.

[Crazy Tom]

Thankfully...though they were trying for a human host who could...the whole haktar thing.

Hok'tar If I remeber corectly, wouldn't it be cool if we had genetic memory injections? No more exams!

[lord groovy]

The one where the two Goa'ulds (Apophis and Amonet) had a harcisus(probably misspelled). Oma De Sala took the kid to protect him and eventually helped him to ascend even as he was a child. He retained the Goa'uld genetic knowledge and had to suppress it so it wouldn't turn him to the darkside.

I don't think there was anything there saying the knowledge forced him to ascend or die. After all, the Goa'uld have the same knowledge in their tiny snake brains and they're not forced to ascend.

According to Daniel in the episode with the Goa'uld/Human hybrid, the Ascension thing was a way to help the Harcesis cope with his genetic memory.

I like the idea of an ascended empire, or rather what looks like some Ascended Soviet Union. where the community enforce the rules on everyone. It makes the Ancients less one-sided, justifies the existence of different levels of Ascension and makes people like Anubis and the Oris some cool bad boy trait.

But the more I am thinking about it, the more it makes me think of Babylon 5, the Vorlon (which somewhat look like the Ascended being under their suit) and the Shadows and blah-blah.

[EternalAlteran]

It was not designed to change humans in Ancient level people. It was designed to work with an advanced lifeform like an Ancient or an Asgard. It was a device which could be used to download info in a being, or to store info from a being. The device caused O'neill (and probably Daniel in some way) to grow advanced, so that they could store the info without dying. However it could not do a full job, because O'neill would eventually die if the Asgard hadn't removed it and Danield was saved by failsafes made by Merlin.

[lord groovy]

It was not designed to change humans in Ancient level people. It was designed to work with an advanced lifeform like an Ancient or an Asgard. It was a device which could be used to download info in a being, or to store info from a being. The device caused O'neill (and probably Daniel in some way) to grow advanced, so that they could store the info without dying. However it could not do a full job, because O'neill would eventually die if the Asgard hadn't removed it and Danield was saved by failsafes made by Merlin.

Yeah you're right, the whole thing did not work as well as it should have. This is what is odd : the Ancients should have left some device that tell people :
1- if the device will work on them
2- if their brain would hold this much information without permanent damage.

I even wonder if it would have been possible to just transfer small parts of the repository or slow down the process of Ancientinisation so that the host could devise a way to improve his body (by building a mini-genetic manipulation thing)

[x303]

HARCICUS
the harcicus child had all the genetic memory of the goaulds but was human. oma helped him deal with everything that he knew and then helped him ascend. basically the best therapy in the galaxy for the most messed up human kid in the galaxy.

ONEIL AND HEADSUCKER
the headsucker is meant to detect a human who has evolved so great that he/she could take in all the knowledge, the sensor is there to detect if someone had reached ancient level again as we are all seeded from them. sadly oniel was 1 step there but still has far to go. thats y he wud eventually die unless it was all erased. the headsucker isn't an ascension machine. its like the asgard said because oneil was a degree close his subconcious brain acted as an interface between himself and the knowledge. so his subconcious brain probably brought himself a small step closer to ascension to deal with all the knowledge and there for oniel was able to develop healing power.

DANIEL
daniel was different, like eternal alteran said. he was only given some of the knowledge and power with mental failsafes all given to him by merlin to fulfill the plan he concocted.

RODNEY
rodney however was NOT given all the knowledge he was genetically altered to become more evovled and close to ascension like the ancients. but what they found was there was no short cuts u couldn't force someone to ascend if u weren't ready mentally. basically it sped the body up to ascension, but the person mind/spiritual side was to slow and u know 1 cant exist with out the other, as the body tried to ascend the mind couldnt and then u die.

ANUBIS
anubis's clone and his machines pretty much did the same thing but in a slightly different so that u didnt have to be completely mentally moral and spiritual to ascend.