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Nusku
August 6th, 2008, 08:50 AM
From the evidence shown I think it's safe to say the Alternate Reality Drive was developed in a reality that was almost identical to the SGA reality. Therefore the motivations and actions of the people from the original alternate reality would be almost identical to the people from the SGA reality.

The only possible reasons they would have for developing an Alternate Reality Drive, that I can come up with, are these:

1) As a defensive tactic.
2) To rob other reality's of useful items such as ZPM's.
3) For pure exploration.

All of these seem highly unlikely motivations; especially considering that, at best, the drive was highly experimental and highly dangerous. Which leads on to the question: why would they fit such a highly experimental and highly dangerous device, that obviously didn't work properly, to such a valuable asset as the Daedelus?

These are the questions that drive Dr. Radek Zelenka to gnaw of his limbs, one by one, in quiet moments of reflection and contemplation.

What say you?

grime
August 6th, 2008, 09:11 AM
this is a good point!

i was kinda wondering that myself.

looking for zpms would be a good explanation. can you imagine them plundering alternate atlantis' for their zpms? that could make for some interesting villainy!!

maybe the atlanteans who built the drive will come looking for it??

Reiko
August 6th, 2008, 09:16 AM
» Plot device? :o

kymeric
August 6th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Other than stealing rare things millions of times i suspect Intel would be the best use. You could see what horrible things have a liklihood of happening and plan for them. Be prepared!

grime
August 6th, 2008, 09:50 AM
omg ... now i want an evil alt-atlantis soooooo badly ...

Nusku
August 6th, 2008, 11:03 AM
omg ... now i want an evil alt-atlantis soooooo badly ...

That would be a good twist.

Enzo Aquarius
August 6th, 2008, 11:18 AM
Could be from the same alternate reality in which the alternate-SG-1 arrived at the SGC to plunder our Atlantis' ZPM. There's your plot device for unlimited ZPMs....make an alternate reality drive and mess up the other realities :lol:

ziga1980
August 6th, 2008, 11:59 AM
people. imagine this:

with this drive you can find an entirely empty reality and you can populate it however you want. sort of what anubis planned for dakara weapon. you can go to other realities to procure tech and advancements they had made, gather intel, etc. or you can grab a few mckays and make them work for you. you find a reality where the ancients purged the wraith and ask for help. there are millions of things you can do with it. that's why it unnerves me that shep wont allow mckay to make an improved version of it.

btw the wraith would have an unlimited supply of humans. they would never need to hibernate again. yey!

PG15
August 6th, 2008, 01:05 PM
I don't see how they were at all similar realties. Sobol commanded the Daedalus, not Caldwell, and the only member of the expedition we know who survived up to that point was McKay. For all we know Earth has been destroyed, and everyone's dead except McKay and the crew of this alternate Daedalus.

They went to other realities to get new tech the same way they travel to different planets to get new tech through the Stargate. Simple.

grime
August 6th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Could be from the same alternate reality in which the alternate-SG-1 arrived at the SGC to plunder our Atlantis' ZPM. There's your plot device for unlimited ZPMs....make an alternate reality drive and mess up the other realities :lol:

there was an evil alt-sg-1?

damn!

Nusku
August 6th, 2008, 02:51 PM
I don't see how they were at all similar realties.

Because of the fact that they had an identical ship, that had identical tech (excepting the AR drive) and was manned by an SG team that appeared to be human, etc. The fact that it was orbiting the "same" planet, etc. All those factors show that the timeline of the original alternate reality was near identical to the SGA reality timeline.

In the grand scheme of things minor personnel changes are insignificant when it comes to comparing the similarity of two realities. :)

Infinatus
August 6th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Ripple Effect showed that alternate main characters in Stargate can have radically different motivations than those of the characters we have come to know. I personally think it would have been interesting if this Daedalus had been built in the same reality as from Ripple Effect and the ship's purpose was to snatch ZPMs from as many realities as possible.

MagicWok
August 6th, 2008, 03:16 PM
What I thought....

.... do the Acended Acients live in only one 'reality' - or across all realities?:confused:


I think it would be good if they came from the 'bad' alt. SG1 reality. Maybe we can find out about which wire to cut and why :cameron: lol

PG15
August 6th, 2008, 03:37 PM
Because of the fact that they had an identical ship, that had identical tech (excepting the AR drive) and was manned by an SG team that appeared to be human, etc. The fact that it was orbiting the "same" planet, etc. All those factors show that the timeline of the original alternate reality was near identical to the SGA reality timeline.

In the grand scheme of things minor personnel changes are insignificant when it comes to comparing the similarity of two realities. :)

I'm sorry, but that's not nearly enough. For one, having Sobol instead of Caldwell is a HUGE change, as that meant that every decision Caldwell ever made could've been made differently by this other captain, and considering the stuff Caldwell has been responsible for...yeah, big changes are not unlikely.

Whats more, McKay was the only one we're semi-sure was alive in Sobol's reality, and if the rest aren't alive, then things would certainly be vastly different. Look at The Last Man and how one fatal error led to a disaster of galactic proportations.

The Daedalus exists, yes, but then it's existed since Season 2 and since then the timeline could've diverged in literally an infinite number of directions, and if the commander of the Daedalus was different for all those years since its appearance, then I don't see how the realities could be at all similar...within reason, of course. I mean, I'm not saying that they're spacetime is made of jello or something, but it's entirely possible that they're in a vastly worse shape than we are right now and are in need of help or supplies from other, more fortunate realities.

Look at Ripple Effect. SG1 was all there, and yet their reality is different enough for them to cross realities to try to steal our ZPM. Same thing here, possibly.

Nusku
August 6th, 2008, 04:01 PM
I'm sorry, but that's not nearly enough. For one, having Sobol instead of Caldwell is a HUGE change, as that meant that every decision Caldwell ever made could've been made differently by this other captain, and considering the stuff Caldwell has been responsible for...yeah, big changes are not unlikely.

Whats more, McKay was the only one we're semi-sure was alive in Sobol's reality, and if the rest aren't alive, then things would certainly be vastly different. Look at The Last Man and how one fatal error led to a disaster of galactic proportations.

The Daedalus exists, yes, but then it's existed since Season 2 and since then the timeline could've diverged in literally an infinite number of directions, and if the commander of the Daedalus was different for all those years since its appearance, then I don't see how the realities could be at all similar...within reason, of course. I mean, I'm not saying that they're spacetime is made of jello or something, but it's entirely possible that they're in a vastly worse shape than we are right now and are in need of help or supplies from other, more fortunate realities.

Look at Ripple Effect. SG1 was all there, and yet their reality is different enough for them to cross realities to try to steal our ZPM. Same thing here, possibly.

Your response tells me that you failed to see the implications of what I said. Therefore I can't really respond further without it seeming like I'm calling you a moron.

May I suggest you dedicate yourself to a lifetime's study of the nature of reality -- you could throw in some quantum mechanics too -- then come back to me. ;)

Jackie
August 6th, 2008, 04:32 PM
From the evidence shown I think it's safe to say the Alternate Reality Drive was developed in a reality that was almost identical to the SGA reality. Therefore the motivations and actions of the people from the original alternate reality would be almost identical to the people from the SGA reality.

The only possible reasons they would have for developing an Alternate Reality Drive, that I can come up with, are these:

1) As a defensive tactic.
2) To rob other reality's of useful items such as ZPM's.
3) For pure exploration.

All of these seem highly unlikely motivations; especially considering that, at best, the drive was highly experimental and highly dangerous. Which leads on to the question: why would they fit such a highly experimental and highly dangerous device, that obviously didn't work properly, to such a valuable asset as the Daedelus?

These are the questions that drive Dr. Radek Zelenka to gnaw of his limbs, one by one, in quiet moments of reflection and contemplation.

What say you?

One of the more intelligent questions I have seen in a long time. I was wondering what possible gain could be the motive for the government to spend millions of dollars on a "reality" ship.

If the purpose of going to another reality is to steal stuff...like ZPM's then the ship is essentially nothing more than a glorified pirate ship.

It they built it to explore, then what were they looking for? And why?

If it was an experiment, then what possible monetary value could the investor be looking to get back and in what form, how?

It was established in ripple effect that the gate could be used to jump realities as well and the Ancients even had a mirror that did the same thing.

Why abandon that technology for an unproven one that is far more dangerous and far more costly?

ablevins425
August 6th, 2008, 05:24 PM
From the evidence shown I think it's safe to say the Alternate Reality Drive was developed in a reality that was almost identical to the SGA reality. Therefore the motivations and actions of the people from the original alternate reality would be almost identical to the people from the SGA reality.

The only possible reasons they would have for developing an Alternate Reality Drive, that I can come up with, are these:

1) As a defensive tactic.
2) To rob other reality's of useful items such as ZPM's.
3) For pure exploration.

All of these seem highly unlikely motivations; especially considering that, at best, the drive was highly experimental and highly dangerous. Which leads on to the question: why would they fit such a highly experimental and highly dangerous device, that obviously didn't work properly, to such a valuable asset as the Daedelus?

These are the questions that drive Dr. Radek Zelenka to gnaw of his limbs, one by one, in quiet moments of reflection and contemplation.

What say you?

I have to agree with PG15 on this one. You are inferring that these realities are similar why? The only facts we know are that there is the Daedelus and McKay. How can you say that the motivations and actions of the people would be the same? We don't even know if anyone else on Atlantis exists in our reality.

We don't know if Weir was in charge at all, and like PG15 said the captain of the Daedelus really is more evidence to the contrary. You can't even get on board by saying that the jumps between realities are close like with the quantum mirror, because in one reality there was new aliens and another the sun went supernova. To me everything about this episode is screaming the difference in realities, not the similarities.

But as to the question or thought provoking purpose of this thread, I would probably have to guess that the drive was constructed because they needed help, or to steal technology. But we will never know for sure, because there is an alternate reality for every possible reason that they would build one.

Xaeden
August 6th, 2008, 05:39 PM
If the purpose of going to another reality is to steal stuff...like ZPM's then the ship is essentially nothing more than a glorified pirate ship.

To be fair, just because one tries to recovering things from other realities doesn't mean they have to be to stealing them. There are plenty of realities out there where Earth never made it to the Pegasus galaxy because the Goa'uld, Ori, etc., destroyed them (for example) and where a whole host of other things happened which prevents that Earth/others from taking advantage of all the Pegasus galaxy has to offer. If they find such a reality and things are similar enough to where the Ancients left things like ZPMs in the same locations, they are doing nothing all that worse by going after them then they are by going after the same things in their reality. So long as they're not taking them from people who lay claim to them, then it's not stealing and so long as they feel that an item will remain unused if they just left it there, I don't have a personal problem with it.

PG15
August 6th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Your response tells me that you failed to see the implications of what I said. Therefore I can't really respond further without it seeming like I'm calling you a moron.

Oh, nice. Instead of actually explaining your point, or explaining why I'm wrong, you lower yourself to insults. :rolleyes:


May I suggest you dedicate yourself to a lifetime's study of the nature of reality -- you could throw in some quantum mechanics too -- then come back to me. ;)

Been studying that for 2 years now, actually. It's a start.

Jackie, they needed a Stargate and a blackhole to jump realities in Ripple Effect (and we don't even know if the events of that episode happened in that reality, so it's possible they never knew about it), and the quantum mirror isn't something you find in a garage sale, if you know what I mean.

Merlin1701
August 7th, 2008, 01:36 AM
Sobol in command of the Deadalus was a big change, I thought she was described as captain Sobol in spoilers but during her little log she called herself colonel.

We could flip the question around and ask why do “we” have hyperspace engines? The alternate Deadalus could have been exploring new realities to see if their enemy has a weakness they had yet to discover.

It could be anything.

wise one
August 7th, 2008, 04:48 AM
instead of a alternate reality drive, they could just channel that energy into its weapons and shields basicallly the you could biuld a bigger ship


who knows maybe there are thoasands of realitys doing the same thing and biulding this drive

The_Carpenter
August 7th, 2008, 05:09 AM
One of the more intelligent questions I have seen in a long time. I was wondering what possible gain could be the motive for the government to spend millions of dollars on a "reality" ship.


There are many possible motives, one could be that the Atlantis/ Earth is under attack from a alien species from another reality. Now in such a circumstance it would make sense for us to attempt to capture of their vessels and reverse engineer and subsequently build a copy of the drive, in order to strike back at their production capabilities for instance.

SG13-NightOps
August 7th, 2008, 10:42 AM
Could be from the same alternate reality in which the alternate-SG-1 arrived at the SGC to plunder our Atlantis' ZPM. There's your plot device for unlimited ZPMs....make an alternate reality drive and mess up the other realities :lol:

LMFAO! That is exactly the same thought I had when I read the thread title!

Pic
August 7th, 2008, 10:45 AM
What would motivate someone to create an alternate reality drive in the first place? I'm gathering that's the gist of the question, right?

To liberate (aka steal) items from alternate realities?
To hide from their own reality?

Completely unanswered in the episode, IMO.

How different was the source-reality from 'our' SGA reality? It rather hard to say. Folks raise many interesting points. It would have to be similar enough for Atlantis to be on this planet and not the original one 'we' found it on. Unless there's another reason for them to be orbiting that particular planet (perhaps they learned that Atlantis was moved in some realities?). As for the rest, it's pretty ambiguous.

Also, there's another reality in the midst there that had the same fab4 team. That one's pretty interesting, too. Not a peep about them other than McKay could get a head start using that McKay's work-to-date (meaning the McKay from the team not the McKay who helped design the initial alternate reality drive).

Then there's the reality with the freaky new enemies. They had a Sheppard who was a pilot, but I don't recall hearing about anyone else from that reality. Was there a McKay there?


highjack/tangent:
OK, I've decided that there are too many McKay's. We've got ours, fine. Then there's the dude from the first failed alternate reality drive stuff. There's repli-McKay. In this episode we got two other McKays. So, we're up to 5? What am I missing?

SG13-NightOps
August 7th, 2008, 10:58 AM
highjack/tangent:
OK, I've decided that there are too many McKay's. We've got ours, fine. Then there's the dude from the first failed alternate reality drive stuff. There's repli-McKay. In this episode we got two other McKays. So, we're up to 5? What am I missing?

Road Not Taken and Moebius. :mckay:

Shan Bruce Lee
August 7th, 2008, 01:19 PM
I don't see how they were at all similar realties. Sobol commanded the Daedalus, not Caldwell, and the only member of the expedition we know who survived up to that point was McKay. For all we know Earth has been destroyed, and everyone's dead except McKay and the crew of this alternate Daedalus.

They went to other realities to get new tech the same way they travel to different planets to get new tech through the Stargate. Simple.

That's what I thought. I figured it was a very different reality.

There's a lot of reasons they would've wanted to build an AR-Drive.
-New tech
-looking for help fighting an enemy
-possibly recon. See if there's anything out there they haven't come across yet.

andromeda_dan
August 7th, 2008, 01:58 PM
point of an alternate reality drive is for Rodney of that universe to go tell Sam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_TwPN5LXzg

YutheGreat
August 7th, 2008, 05:51 PM
The only reason to build something like that is because there is a need for it so I believe that they need it for some mission.

perkin127
August 8th, 2008, 01:10 PM
i agree i think the other atlantians needed something from an alternate reality, maybe zpms maybe a type of 'alpha' site if the war was bad with the wraith/replicator, maybe someone in washington decided it was the best way of getting new tech and maybe even finding ancients alive to help them, and mckay didnt have much choice in making it. i think that there would have to be a pretty good reason why they needed to make one, i mean its a big risk and they ended up loosing a ship complete with crew

Enzo Aquarius
August 8th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Eureka?

(Possible spoilers for "First Contact" and "The Lost Tribe"?)
I wonder if the AU based the alternate drive technology on Janus' time jumper technology? Sure, the one on the Alt-Daedalus was huge, but the premise was the same and Area 51 has it (IIRC). Knowledge in Janus' lab may lead to the eventual development of this drive.

Just a thought that came to mind.

Kyronea
August 8th, 2008, 07:46 PM
There are plenty of plausible reasons, really. Not just stealing/taking unused items either.

Take a look at the resources we have on Earth for instance. We've mostly used them up, so they'd need to find new resources. Perhaps for them it would be easier to get them on an alternate Earth where all of the various resources would still be available. (Or alternate versions of the planets they've got naquada mines on, ect ect. Resource collection.)

Then there are some strategic reasons. What if you wanted to get your forces in to assault some sort of huge enemy stronghold but could never approach them normally? You could move the forces into an alternate reality, position them appropriately, then zap back into your own. Bam, you're behind enemy defensive lines and have some serious advantages.

Of course, there are other reasons to, from escape, to information gathering, and all sorts of stuff.

Nobody0x00
August 9th, 2008, 07:40 AM
Exploration. Aquiring information, technology...there are a myrad of reasons as to why something like that would be useful. Not to mention just flat out curiousity which fits rather well in with the fact that it was built by humans. ;d

Col. Matarrese
August 9th, 2008, 08:16 AM
There are plenty of plausible reasons, really. Not just stealing/taking unused items either.

Take a look at the resources we have on Earth for instance. We've mostly used them up, so they'd need to find new resources. Perhaps for them it would be easier to get them on an alternate Earth where all of the various resources would still be available. (Or alternate versions of the planets they've got naquada mines on, ect ect. Resource collection.)

Then there are some strategic reasons. What if you wanted to get your forces in to assault some sort of huge enemy stronghold but could never approach them normally? You could move the forces into an alternate reality, position them appropriately, then zap back into your own. Bam, you're behind enemy defensive lines and have some serious advantages.

Of course, there are other reasons to, from escape, to information gathering, and all sorts of stuff.
That's EXACTLY what I had in mind when I saw this episode. It makes considerably more sense than any of the other theories I've seen. I think that capacitor also has a good amount of potential, if you can control when it discharges its power.

Kremnari
August 9th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Hello Alll,

My prediction. The universe that built the drive is already battling the unknown enemy in this episode. I read somewhere (maybe here on gateworld, read below) that there will be a new enemy rearing it's ugly head this season. I think we've just been introduced to them. Looking at IMDB.com I believe we'll officially make "First Contact" with them in episode 10. If the first universe is under attack by these new enemies, then I'd be willing to bet they were looking for help/tech/allies/ect against them, especially since Ori cruisers were destroyed after a few hits from the asgard beam weapons, and atleast 3 shots were required to take out just the main cannon of the enemy ship.

Expanding on that, I think that enemy ship isn't a cap ship, I think it's more of a carrier sent because their Atlantis didn't have weapons (probably out of drones since their shields were powered). If so, then heavier enemy ships would be able to take more of a beating.

I don't think we've seen the last of the ARD in our reality, and I think we'll need one for a few key episodes. For a twist, it might be fun if we aren't even the reality that comes up with the solution to our knew alien party poopers.

Kremmy
Best quote from this episode: "Easy Chewie, those buttons are your friends."

PG15
August 9th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Sorry, but we know for sure (as in, we have info directly from the writers) that the new aliens in the mid-season 2-parter are NOT the ones introduced here.

Merlin1701
August 10th, 2008, 12:44 AM
Quick thought...in the episode they transferred power from the majority of areas to the drive, including shields. Why didn’t they just transfer all that power to life support, weapons, defence systems, sensors and impulse engines to slow the drives power regeneration and power the weapons during the battle?

Infinatus
August 10th, 2008, 09:05 AM
I can only assume that there wasn't any way to transfer power from the AR drive to other systems.

MIZA
August 10th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Because your own reality sucks so you try to visit a better one, thats why i would do it

rarocks24
August 10th, 2008, 03:07 PM
I thought the intent of the drive was to draw zero point energy from multiple universes so as to prevent the buildup of exotic particles in those universes, but that the reason it became a alternate reality drive was because it was malfunctioning due to a design flaw?

Greenace
August 10th, 2008, 04:05 PM
What you seem to be missing is that only our Mcay figured out to put the drive in reverse...
I could be wrong, and that the creators of the drive knew how to work it, but that is a possibility.

Col. Matarrese
August 10th, 2008, 11:09 PM
I thought the intent of the drive was to draw zero point energy from multiple universes so as to prevent the buildup of exotic particles in those universes, but that the reason it became a alternate reality drive was because it was malfunctioning due to a design flaw?

Not quite...the capacitor was supposed to draw small amounts of energy from subspace on a continual basis (slowly, probably to avoid exotic particles). Our McKay suspected that the original crew tried to tamper with it and broke it, so that the spigot has no "valve". The ARD itself was supposed to have a mapping system attached to it, but for reasons never mentioned in the episode, the system didn't work. It could be that the ARD was meant to find a universe with nothing in it so that the project from "McKay and Mrs. Miller" would work without causing harm to any living beings.

grime
August 12th, 2008, 01:20 PM
they were prolly looking for the ancients!

but maybe they found them ... and they had borgy heads!

tricky
August 13th, 2008, 03:44 PM
One thing that crossed my mind as I watched this show was something I got from a short story I read (and a lil from Sliders): This scientist created a device to send him into alternate realities. Of course, he tested it by using it himself. Jumped to an alternate reality, made note of the differences and then hit the return button. Then he discovered that that reality was slightly different too; not his 'home reality'. So he tried again. This one was even more different. (he eventually ended up in a reality in which the 13 colonies broke away from England, but became 13 independent and continualy warring states).

The problem was, as this poor guy found out, was that as he jumped, the 'quantum nature' that creates alternate realities was not a static thing; it changed from second to second. So, the minute you disconnect from your reality to another, the almost infinite number of variations that are created make it impossible to get home.

Of course, that would have made a really sad episode.

PMN1
September 4th, 2008, 12:23 PM
The only possible reasons they would have for developing an Alternate Reality Drive,

Maybe they didn't set out to develop it but have decided to make use of an accidental discovery??

Discotrash
November 12th, 2008, 06:40 PM
They may also have used the device to escape out of desperation, much as the alternate Carter and Kowalski did when they fled their reality by means of the quantum mirror in There but for the Grace of God. Admittedly, the circumstances would have had to be dire.

Possible First Contact spoiler:

Perhaps in their universe the Wraith had adapted the Attero device to render Asgard hyperdrives useless, and the Daedalus crew jumped to another universe before their alternate-reality drive was perfected.There was considerable damage, ostensibly from weapons fire, to the ship that may have been caused in the universe where the alternate Daedalus originated. This seems extremely far-fetched, but since a separate quantum universe exists for every decision, it's not impossible. These scenarios are fun to think about, in any event.

LT. COL. John Sheppard
September 25th, 2011, 06:25 AM
blunt