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    Daniel's "angst?" (spoilers, of course)

    So, a while back, I remember reading Brad Wright say that their plot explanation for Daniel not appearing in the Artic scenes with Jack -- the leg issue, which resulted in amputation -- would provide opportunity for a dark character study of Daniel.

    I didn't see a single frame in the picture that supported that assertion. In fact, I thought it was the exact opposite: Daniel handled the setback unhumanly well.

    Now, I wasn't at all bothered by its handling in the movie. I just thought it was strange that what's in the film doesn't square with that earlier declaration by Brad Wright. Did it get pared down for time, tossed out, or are they under the impression that it actually came across in the movie?
    Theoretically spoilerish:
    Spoiler:
    Sig courtesy of Pandora.

    #2
    i read somewhere he was going to struggle in the film and remember his grandfathers struggle with one leg
    i'm going to rewatch the film later and i'll see if theres anything i missed
    but i don't remember him struggling really
    "What we need now is a tactical retreat. Did you see the episode on Stargate where they found themselves on a planet with a culture based loosely on Earth Athens and Sparta?"

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      #3
      I think that they didn't have Daniel struggling enough with loosing his leg. By the time they get to the gate he is running. I have a friend that lost his leg during a fight with cancer. He had a really long recovery time. The cancer was in remission once he lost his leg. He took several years to find the proper leg replacement. He now is training to run in a 10K. I think that they didn't show the angst that Daniel would have gone through when he lost his leg. Also they made the transition to quick from loosing his leg to running.



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        #4
        Well, it was a year. And we do have examples of rehabilitation within that time. A soldier who volunteered to go back on active duty to Iraq (after losing a leg in Iraq before) comes to mind.

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          #5
          Loosing a leg is a huge thing, couple that with being in an altered time line, just having witnessed your best frind killed, and two other close friends vanish, then being told you can't contact the only two people in the altered time line who you know. All a tremendous amount to deal with. Yet, as usual, the emotional impact is brushed under the carpet, and Michael Shanks once again denied of a chance to flex his considerable acting skills to the full.

          This was yet another movie filled with lost opportunities - Cam got his montage of recovery in Avalon, Teal'c was seen struggling with recovering from a terrible injury in Orpheus and yet Daniel, suffering the most severe injury of them all - the permanent loss of a limb, gets barely a second thought. And they could hardly use time as an excuse - they had at least twice as much time as they had in regular episodes.

          Still, I wasn't overly disappointed, because I've learned to accept these kind of ommisions in stories from TPTB, therefore, I never expected his loss to get more than a passing mention. Plus, TPTB's idea of dark, and the majority of the fans idea of dark are quite clearly two entirely different things.

          All I can say is thank goodness for fan fiction - as that's the only place we'll ever get true satisfaction anymore.

          Just wish there was some kind of official channel where we could voice what we liked and disliked about the movies where someone would actually take note - okay - so that's a never to be realised dream, after all, we are only the fans, the people who shell out the hard cash that finances these productions - what do we matter !

          Sorry to sound so jaded and cynical - but after enduring the crushing blow of SG-1 being cancelled (two years on and just as angry) then sorely disappointed by AoT, mildly pleasantly suprised by Continuum because I'd kept my expectations so low in the first place, I'm beginning to loose hope that the next movie will be worth watching - esp if it's going to be a Sam'n'Sir ship fest !

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by DeltaFlyer View Post
            Loosing a leg is a huge thing, couple that with being in an altered time line, just having witnessed your best frind killed, and two other close friends vanish, then being told you can't contact the only two people in the altered time line who you know. All a tremendous amount to deal with. Yet, as usual, the emotional impact is brushed under the carpet, and Michael Shanks once again denied of a chance to flex his considerable acting skills to the full.
            I couldn't agree more DeltaFlyer. I have alot of conflicting feelings about this movie. I did enjoy it because well... it was a well made movie with lots of cool SFX (which I like), great villains and, you know, it’s Stargate! also I think Michael did very well with what he was given, but how come I also still felt very disappointed at the end? I think I expected more catharsis…. from not only the build up to the movie (the spoilers regarding Daniel leg was released a long, long! time before the movie itself was) but being able to see the old team again, hoping to get some Jack and Daniel moments and yes a little of Daniels journey after his injury.

            Originally posted by DeltaFlyer View Post
            This was yet another movie filled with lost opportunities - Cam got his montage of recovery in Avalon, Teal'c was seen struggling with recovering from a terrible injury in Orpheus and yet Daniel, suffering the most severe injury of them all - the permanent loss of a limb, gets barely a second thought. And they could hardly use time as an excuse - they had at least twice as much time as they had in regular episodes.

            Still, I wasn't overly disappointed, because I've learned to accept these kinds of ommisions in stories from TPTB, therefore, I never expected his loss to get more than a passing mention. Plus, TPTB's idea of dark, and the majority of the fans idea of dark are quite clearly two entirely different things.
            Again agree.

            I like the two seconds Daniel allowed him self a moment of comfort, when he thought he had just condemned himself to death alone on the ice, it was a poignant moment in the film, but really after that, comfort/angst wise? … Daniel did go darker, which was especially evident with his angry *slavery and death* and the *We told you so* speech to the president and also I think Michael portrayed Daniels despondency at finding his alternate self mocked and maybe a little crazed wonderfully but I felt more was needed to recognized the true impact of his injury and how that effected his life, this sadly was left to the viewer’s imagination.

            Originally posted by DeltaFlyer View Post
            All I can say is thank goodness for fan fiction - as that's the only place we'll ever get true satisfaction anymore.

            Just wish there was some kind of official channel where we could voice what we liked and disliked about the movies where someone would actually take note - okay - so that's a never to be realised dream, after all, we are only the fans, the people who shell out the hard cash that finances these productions - what do we matter !

            Sorry to sound so jaded and cynical - but after enduring the crushing blow of SG-1 being cancelled (two years on and just as angry) then sorely disappointed by AoT, mildly pleasantly suprised by Continuum because I'd kept my expectations so low in the first place, I'm beginning to loose hope that the next movie will be worth watching - esp if it's going to be a Sam'n'Sir ship fest !
            I desperately want to have hope for the next movie; I don’t particularly like J/S ship (mostly because of eps like Evolution, Gemini and the non-team endings of Threads and Mobious) but generally I can ignore it in the series and it doesn’t bother me. I do certainly enjoy Jack and Sam as individual characters. If they have to have J/S together? fine? who cares! But don’t make it what the movie is about and don’t disappoint all the fans of the other two characters that have also been on the show the beginning, the other half of the Team!

            I much as I love Stargate I can't say I would want to watch another movie where they are side lined.
            Last edited by Sprinkles; 31 July 2008, 07:51 AM.
            AncientsTimeline

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              #7
              Originally posted by Bee11 View Post
              i read somewhere he was going to struggle in the film and remember his grandfathers struggle with one leg
              i'm going to rewatch the film later and i'll see if theres anything i missed
              but i don't remember him struggling really

              I think I can remember the article your talking about (in the official Stargate mag) where Michael Shanks talks about in preparation for the role he rememberd his own grandfather who had lost his leg in WWII and he remebered thinking about how his grandfather was able to live and do normal things with the injury (paraphrasing here).

              I must say I can't think of one scene (where Daniel is moving around) that the injury wasn't in evidence.
              AncientsTimeline

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                #8
                Daniel has never focused on his personal difficulties, except where others were involved. That goes right back to the first time he stepped in front of a staff weapon to save Jack. It doesn't strike me as out of character at all.
                Instead of brooding on his own personal loss, he was on the phone with his alternate, trying to help him believe in his work. This strikes me as classic Daniel behavior. With that phone call, he can both help someone else and potentially save the world. At that point, the only thing that can prevent eventual invasion is proof found by his alternate, and made public. He's the type who feels tremendous sorrow for those he can't help, but really doesn't get all angsty about himself. The closest he ever came to that was when he was dying of radiation poisoning, and he wasn't very bitter about that, either.

                Re: his recovery/use of his leg. We know from stories about some of the Iraq Vets that this is possible. Most people don't manage to recover in this kind of time frame, but some do. It would take a tremendous effort of will and tolerance for pain. Daniel has both of these things in abundance, and absolutely nothing else to do but rehab.
                Last edited by amconway; 31 July 2008, 08:50 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by amconway View Post
                  Daniel has never focused on his personal difficulties, except where others were involved. That goes right back to the first time he stepped in front of a staff weapon to save Jack. It doesn't strike me as out of character at all.
                  Instead of brooding on his own personal loss, he was on the phone with his alternate, trying to help him believe in his work. This strikes me as classic Daniel behavior. With that phone call, he can both help someone else and potentially save the world. At that point, the only thing that can prevent eventual invasion is proof found by his alternate, and made public. He's the type who feels tremendous sorrow for those he can't help, but really doesn't get all angsty about himself. The closest he ever came to that was when he was dying of radiation poisoning, and he wasn't very bitter about that, either.

                  Re: his recovery/use of his leg. We know from stories about some of the Iraq Vets that this is possible. Most people don't manage to recover in this kind of time frame, but some do. It would take a tremendous effort of will and tolerance for pain. Daniel has both of these things in abundance, and absolutely nothing else to do but rehab.


                  WOW!..you've summed up "my Daniel" perfectly!....green for you and a pat on the back from me for such a brilliant summation of his approach to the whole experience....


                  Deeds xx
                  sigpic
                  Thanks to slizzie1986 for signature
                  MSOL - Official Website of Michael Shanks

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                    #10
                    Why, thank you! Pats on the back are always appreciated!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by amconway View Post
                      Daniel has never focused on his personal difficulties, except where others were involved. That goes right back to the first time he stepped in front of a staff weapon to save Jack. It doesn't strike me as out of character at all.
                      Instead of brooding on his own personal loss, he was on the phone with his alternate, trying to help him believe in his work. This strikes me as classic Daniel behavior. With that phone call, he can both help someone else and potentially save the world. At that point, the only thing that can prevent eventual invasion is proof found by his alternate, and made public. He's the type who feels tremendous sorrow for those he can't help, but really doesn't get all angsty about himself. The closest he ever came to that was when he was dying of radiation poisoning, and he wasn't very bitter about that, either.

                      Re: his recovery/use of his leg. We know from stories about some of the Iraq Vets that this is possible. Most people don't manage to recover in this kind of time frame, but some do. It would take a tremendous effort of will and tolerance for pain. Daniel has both of these things in abundance, and absolutely nothing else to do but rehab.
                      I hadn't thought of it that way but it makes alot of sense and is very in character for Daniel.

                      I really did enjoy the movie.
                      AncientsTimeline

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by amconway View Post
                        Daniel has never focused on his personal difficulties, except where others were involved. That goes right back to the first time he stepped in front of a staff weapon to save Jack. It doesn't strike me as out of character at all.
                        Instead of brooding on his own personal loss, he was on the phone with his alternate, trying to help him believe in his work. This strikes me as classic Daniel behavior. With that phone call, he can both help someone else and potentially save the world. At that point, the only thing that can prevent eventual invasion is proof found by his alternate, and made public. He's the type who feels tremendous sorrow for those he can't help, but really doesn't get all angsty about himself. The closest he ever came to that was when he was dying of radiation poisoning, and he wasn't very bitter about that, either.

                        Re: his recovery/use of his leg. We know from stories about some of the Iraq Vets that this is possible. Most people don't manage to recover in this kind of time frame, but some do. It would take a tremendous effort of will and tolerance for pain. Daniel has both of these things in abundance, and absolutely nothing else to do but rehab.
                        You ara absolutely right! I didn't realize that the phone call wasn't made just to support A.Daniel. Thanks!
                        sigpic
                        Sig made by slizzie1986

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                          #13
                          I did wonder about the medical accuracy of Daniel's recovery. The first time he started walking without a cane, I was surprised by how complete his recovery seemed to be. But, it's not like they brushed it under the rug. There were frequent reminders about Daniel's injury. And I completely agree that Daniel has the determination to overcome this kind of injury.

                          Part of the problem is that Brad Wright started giving out details of this movie way too long ago. Which gave all of us fans far too much time to imagine how things would play out. Plus, I think BW was just trying to assure Daniel fans that even though MS couldn't go to the Arctic, Daniel would still be important and have his own part in the story.

                          As for the angst level... I actually thought it was pretty strong angst. Subtle, but strong. From the moment Landry accuses our three misplaced heroes of arrogance, there's a sense melancholy that presides over the characters. They're all isolated and alone, but they accept their situation to some extent. I found those scenes incredibly sad, but it's almost a quiet, moody type of angst. You feel for all three of them because they have lost everything. But at the same time, I think you have to admire the fact that they aren't sitting there feeling sorry for themselves. They're just trying to cope as best they can.

                          Daniel's injury does mean that he should have a more difficult time coping, but again, I think he does struggle with his injury, he just doesn't complain about it or talk about his struggles. After all, he said from the beginning that losing his leg was better than the cold death he'd expected. So even in the beginning, he tries to put a positive spin on the situation. Daniel did seem a little more depressed than Sam or Cam, IMO (which made his initial excitement over his alternate's book all the more enjoyable), and then he turns a little bit bitter later on, for example, in the "I told you so" scene. He also seems more withdrawn and depressed after they are rescued, when they are questioned, and when they talk with Landry.

                          But overall, I think they went for the subtle approach in regards to the angst. And I think MS does subtle very well. If they had focused too much on the angst it would have become exaggerated and out of character.

                          Still, someone needs to get to work on the fan fiction to fill in the blanks.
                          Chief of the GGP (Gateworld Grammar Police). Punctuation is your friend. Use it!

                          Great happy armies shall be gathered and trained to oppose all who embrace doubt. In the name of Hope, ships shall be built to carry our disciples out amongst the stars, and we will spread Optimism to all the doubters. The power of the Optimi will be felt far and wide, and the pessimists shall become positive-thinkers.
                          Hallowed are the Optimi.

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                            #14
                            I totally agree with your post! Their helplessness in the face of disaster that they knew would come was striking. I found their solitude and lack of purpose very sad and touching.... Well said!

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                              #15
                              I don't think there was any problem with how it was handled in the movie. I liked it on the whole. All I'm saying is that Brad Wright implied it would be something that it proved not to be, in my opinion.
                              Theoretically spoilerish:
                              Spoiler:
                              Sig courtesy of Pandora.

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