PDA

View Full Version : The Siege, Part 1 (119)



Pages : [1] 2

GateWorld
November 7th, 2004, 05:28 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/119.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/119.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>THE SIEGE, PART 1</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 119</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
With a group of Wraith hive ships on the way to Atlantis, the team searches for a place to flee and a way to destroy the city. McKay leads a team to try and activate the Ancients' orbital weapons platform.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/119.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

tfalls1
January 24th, 2005, 05:26 PM
is it on yet in canada?

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 05:28 PM
it did and IMHO it was slow and a bit predictable-what happened was: (scroll down)



























they used the space station to try to blow up the wraith ships. at the same time they find out that there is a wraith in atlantisand its not teyla giving info out.long story short,the station distroys 1 of the 3 hive ships then the other 2 blow it up with(scroll down further to find out) inside. also they capture the wraith and kill it.











Peter Grodin dies on the ship.

AtlantisRising
January 24th, 2005, 05:28 PM
is it on yet in canada?

I just finished watching it about 30 minutes ago. I was pleased with it though I was saddened at the loss of a valued member of the Atlantis Expedition! :(

Major Tyler
January 24th, 2005, 05:28 PM
I'm so excited that I'm freaking out!!

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 05:31 PM
Ah man thats lame They hadn't been using him for the past few episodes they didn't even freaking TRY to write for that character they just tossed him [mod snip].

The rest of it was good though.

soulblade64
January 24th, 2005, 05:34 PM
i'm not gonna look at this thread, because i don't wanna be spoiled. but can someone PM me and tell me if it gave away too much of moebius(i'm not coming back here until i've seen it. i know about where they got the ZPM from.

that would be greatly appreciated.

AtlantisRising
January 24th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Though this isnt a spoiler, Its just a personal thought that I figured could use the tag anyways.
Im hoping that he didnt really die, but at the last moment, someone like Oma (Omar?) helped him to ascend with the other ancients. I think that would make an interesting plot twist. But thats my opinion.

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 05:38 PM
if anyone wants to know about crossovers ill tell you we dont make contact with earth at all-nothing,not even talk about it or hope that help will come-they dont even seem to think of it as a possibility

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Man I'd say Peter Grodin Got Jonas Quinned. (tm). Absolutely retarded it was like he was just there to get built up and die.

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 05:40 PM
I was disappointed - I wanted the ?%$ to die.(the guy thats all paranoid and stuff) :(

We did learn some significant stuff though


- The ancients were undoubtadly more advanced. Give me a few death stars, then we'll see some real goauld bustin :)

- The wraith may not have the capacity to actually travel outside of pegasus. They APPEAR to be limited as indicated by Zalenka (the scientist guy) when he mentions he cant do enough damage to stop them getting to the hyper drives

- That jerk off didnt die... GRRR
- Grodin did. :(

- They (the earth folks) finally pieced together that the ancient database was a more important thing to destroy.

- The athosians are NOT happy about the plan to nuke atlantis - some kind of religious thing no doubt. They seem to think the ancients will come out of nowhere and save the city.. Yeah ok...



No summery for you - come back 2 years.!

:)

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 05:41 PM
if anyone wants to know about crossovers ill tell you we dont make contact with earth at all-nothing,not even talk about it or hope that help will come-they dont even seem to think of it as a possibility

Ya it's supposed to be a big surprise when the troops march in through the gate. at least that's what I got from that german stargate site. My german is sub par though.

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 05:42 PM
Ya it's supposed to be a big surprise when the troops march in through the gate. at least that's what I got from that german stargate site. My german is sub par though.


Well earth defiinitely did notin this ep - I was looking forward to seeing daedaleas

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 05:44 PM
i dont see why they dont just take the dhd like they did in home and then nuke the database-whats the rest of the city matter?

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 05:45 PM
i dont see why they dont just take the dhd like they did in home and then nuke the database-whats the rest of the city matter?


Thats the whole point - the wraith cant (with their current technology) reach earth. That whole thing about the city not taking enough damage was in regards to the hyper drive systems.

AtlantisRising
January 24th, 2005, 05:47 PM
i dont see why they dont just take the dhd like they did in home and then nuke the database-whats the rest of the city matter?

The city has hyperdrive engines that, if the wraith got a hold of, could use, or study until the could build their own and hyper-space it all the way to Earths doorstep.

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 05:51 PM
The city has hyperdrive engines that, if the wraith got a hold of, could use, or study until the could build their own and hyper-space it all the way to Earths doorstep.

The weird thing about this whole issue is that up until this point the wraith are made out to be near equals to the ancients - yet they seem to lack technology which seems fundamental to space based civilizations (hyperdrives). We know they can go into hyperspace, im just wondering if the short hops between planets are for feeding or because their systems just cant go that far.... See the initial tests done on the x302s using naquadria as an example, or even the x304 without its buffer

queenselqet31
January 24th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Wait, let me rephrase that: are spoiler tags necessary?

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 05:54 PM
Do we need to put spoiler tags in this thread?


I think its just a courtesy - no one wants to give out the details :)
Thus no summerys thus far...

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 05:56 PM
... What's with the use of spoiler tags?

You don't need them in this thread.

Anyways... the episode.

OH MY GOD! I LOVED IT!

I'm skipping the big summary this week (I'm tired)

This is basically it though: They find this satellite, Rodney fixes it, Wraith show up, they shoot one down, it stops working, Wraith blow up the satellite, Grodin dies (or so it seems DUM DUM DUMM!!), Zelenka is really cool, Bates gets beat up (think it's Teyla), find out they got a Wraith hanging around. He sets a trap up, takes down Sheppard and his team (not Teyla and Ford though because they show up and shoot the Wraith down). John names him Bob, Teyla tries to connect to him, Bob kind of mind melds and hurts Teyla, John starts shooting Bob, Bob is all arrogent (we will find you wherever you go, we will find Earth), and John kills him.

Rodney got to wear a space suit (he looks so cute), and he got to scream like a woman when the gravity in the satellite came on, and um... they would be able to back up around 10% of the Ancient Database, and um... what else... oh, since the satellite blew up, Elizabeth gave them orders to prepare for evacuation.

Early on, Zelenka kind of admited that Rodney was smarter than him, and Rodney was really happy...

Umm... can't think of much else.

Episode ROCKED! Poor Grodin... :(

As Rodney put it, "One down, two to go."

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Well earth defiinitely did notin this ep - I was looking forward to seeing daedaleas

We Probably won't see the deadalus until season2

Just a feeling I have.

queenselqet31
January 24th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Ok, I read in an interview on SGP with Craig Veroni (Peter Groden) and the way he was talking suggested that his character was going to be in Season 2. So, maybe he's not dead?

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:01 PM
Ok, I read in an interview on SGP with Craig Veroni (Peter Groden) and the way he was talking suggested that his character was going to be in Season 2. So, maybe he's not dead?
So um...

'DUM DUM DUMMMM!!!' really was in order? :P

Yay to know that he may not actually be dead...

Grodin is my hero! :) He bought the Atlantis crew some more time.

Before Rodney, Grodin, and that pilot guy who I think is kind of cute when off on their flight to the satellite they said the Wraith would be there in about 49 hours.

It took about 15 hours to get there and then probably... a couple hours to fix it and such...

So they probably have two or so days until they get there.

They might have gotten whatever Bob found out and might decide to speed up or something...

Hmm... :P

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 06:02 PM
We Probably won't see the deadalus until season2

Just a feeling I have.

Didnt I see somewhere that deadalus is carrying the zpm to assist with defeating the two remaining hives?

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:05 PM
Didnt I see somewhere that deadalus is carrying the zpm to assist with defeating the two remaining hives?
Wait for The Siege, Part 2!

Remember this is how it works in the states and such:

Moebius Part 1 airs, then right after The Siege Part 1 airs.

Then the next week:

Moebius Part 2, then right after that ending The Siege Part 2.

So we know that no matter what happens in Moebius Part 1 and 2 that they make it out okay with the 'time ship'.

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Didnt I see somewhere that deadalus is carrying the zpm to assist with defeating the two remaining hives?


Ok i"m gonna stop using the spoiler tag now as this is a spoilertastic thread. The deadalus is powered by a zpm that they find on earth. I doubt it will last very long against the hive ships but it will probably hurt them. In the end atlantis' victory over the wraith attack will likely be due to the control chair in atlantis.

Calicto
January 24th, 2005, 06:12 PM
Extremely Detailed Summary needed. And a lot of Popcorn. (just dont give me the popcorn without the summary.

My regular computer died and Macs just suck, so i wont be watching this episode till March.... :S

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Extremely Detailed Summary needed. And a lot of Popcorn. (just dont give me the popcorn without the summary.

My regular computer died and Macs just suck, so i wont be watching this episode till March.... :S
Well, Rodney was very nervous in the space suit.

He had to go into the satellite to get the power online and he kept on asking about how much air is in there.

Bates wasn't happy with Teyla. John and the team (while looking over some potential alpha sites) came back in hot. Bates thought that it was the Wraith and that Teyla gave away their position. Turns out they were being chased by a big T-Rex.

Teyla wasn't too happy that Bates accused her of such a thing and punched him. John and Ford had to hold he back and someone else held back Bates. "This isn't over!"

Next thing you know Bates got the crap kicked out of him.

Umm... Rodney, Grodin, and the other guy tried rock paper scissors (one of them had to go outside to fix the thing). It didn't work (the game). So the one guy had a pencil, broke it apart, Rodney got the short part, had to go outside with the space suit.

Grodin (in the satellite) was saying to Rodney, "Are you there yet?"

Rodney: "I haven't left yet!"

He was stuck at the back of the jumper because he didn't want to go out there lol.

Rodney was calling Grodin basically 'Captain Obvious'.

Zelenka got to talk alot with Elizabeth. Umm...

Not much else I can think of.

That might be the best you will get unless someone else makes a summary :P

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 06:22 PM
So um...

'DUM DUM DUMMMM!!!' really was in order? :P

Yay to know that he may not actually be dead...

Grodin is my hero! :) He bought the Atlantis crew some more time.

Before Rodney, Grodin, and that pilot guy who I think is kind of cute when off on their flight to the satellite they said the Wraith would be there in about 49 hours.

It took about 15 hours to get there and then probably... a couple hours to fix it and such...

So they probably have two or so days until they get there.

They might have gotten whatever Bob found out and might decide to speed up or something...

Hmm... :P
bob didnt tell them anything and the wraith where at the weapons platform-so 15 hours till they get there(with out hyperspace)

queenselqet31
January 24th, 2005, 06:23 PM
Dude! I forgot about Shep mentioning a t-rex like creature chasing them off one of the potential Alpha Sites. That would be cool if they did an ep with them on a planet full of dinos... but the CGI for that would be pretty expensive, so the chances of that happening are low. :( But, there's something people could use for fanfic...

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:24 PM
bob didnt tell them anything and the wraith where at the weapons platform-so 15 hours till they get there(with out hyperspace)
Hey, he could have told them something earlier.

Who knows?

Bob is my hero.

Poor Bob... and Greg... and Steve... :(

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Well, Rodney was very nervous in the space suit.

He had to go into the satellite to get the power online and he kept on asking about how much air is in there.

Bates wasn't happy with Teyla. John and the team (while looking over some potential alpha sites) came back in hot. Bates thought that it was the Wraith and that Teyla gave away their position. Turns out they were being chased by a big T-Rex.

Teyla wasn't too happy that Bates accused her of such a thing and punched him. John and Ford had to hold he back and someone else held back Bates. "This isn't over!"

Next thing you know Bates got the crap kicked out of him.

Umm... Rodney, Grodin, and the other guy tried rock paper scissors (one of them had to go outside to fix the thing). It didn't work (the game). So the one guy had a pencil, broke it apart, Rodney got the short part, had to go outside with the space suit.

Grodin (in the satellite) was saying to Rodney, "Are you there yet?"

Rodney: "I haven't left yet!"

He was stuck at the back of the jumper because he didn't want to go out there lol.

Rodney was calling Grodin basically 'Captain Obvious'.

Zelenka got to talk alot with Elizabeth. Umm...

Not much else I can think of.

That might be the best you will get unless someone else makes a summary :P
there is also bob hurting bates,how they will distroy the database, the platform exploding and bob ??dieing??

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:25 PM
Dude! I forgot about Shep mentioning a t-rex like creature chasing them off one of the potential Alpha Sites. That would be cool if they did an ep with them on a planet full of dinos... but the CGI for that would be pretty expensive, so the chances of that happening are low. :( But, there's something people could use for fanfic...
Damn that money!

They need more!

It's awesome how it is, but I would have loved to see that T-Rex!

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 06:26 PM
Hey, he could have told them something earlier.

Who knows?

Bob is my hero.

Poor Bob... and Greg... and Steve... :(
then why would teyla need to connect with him?

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:26 PM
there is also bob hurting bates,how they will distroy the database, the platform exploding and bob ??dieing??
That was in my summary at the end of the first page.

This is just a little add on for more details :P

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 06:26 PM
Wait for The Siege, Part 2!

Remember this is how it works in the states and such:

Moebius Part 1 airs, then right after The Siege Part 1 airs.

Then the next week:

Moebius Part 2, then right after that ending The Siege Part 2.

So we know that no matter what happens in Moebius Part 1 and 2 that they make it out okay with the 'time ship'.


Didnt someone say that the uk is airing the sg1 episodes differently?

Like: SG1-819 then sg1-820

Then the next week: SGA119 & 120


I really would like to see it though :)

queenselqet31
January 24th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Damn that money!

They need more!

It's awesome how it is, but I would have loved to see that T-Rex!
Let's get people together and DONATE some money!

corey2002
January 24th, 2005, 06:28 PM
That was in my summary at the end of the first page.

This is just a little add on for more details :P
oops

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:28 PM
then why would teyla need to connect with him?
Wraith are telepathic remember?

Who knows how far it goes?

Teyla is just trying to show off :P

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Let's get people together and DONATE some money!
Yay!

*throws pennies*

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 06:33 PM
Im still stuck on the wraith tech stuff. Its just not adding up for me..

I mean how could they beat the ancients but not have hyperdrives capable of galaxy to galaxy travel... It makes NO sense at all...

The wraith are really starting to remind me of the ultimate parasites. Goauld part II basically.

It looks like they leeched just enough technology from the ancients to become a threat and then simply sat back and fed for thousands of years. They dont appear to have any desire / need to attempt to advance. They dont even seem to have the curiousity to find out where the ancients went even though they knew exactly where atlantis is....

For an "advanced" race they are surprisingly .... dull witted - I have an enemy I know where he lives, one day his house moves and he no longer attacks me to protect his family.. Do you A) keep killing the family and ignore the fact your real enemy disappeared B) seek out the real enemy and deal with the family later....

First rule of warfare - know your enemy.....

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:35 PM
The Wraith didn't overpower the Ancients with fancy weapons and such, they just... the Ancients were outnumbered.

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 06:41 PM
The Wraith massively out numbered the ancients on a grand scale. IT really doesn't matter how powerful you are , bar ascension, if you have hundreds of ships firing everything they have at you and then going kamakazi into you, then you're going to get your butt kicked. The ancients technology was more than a match for wraith tech it's just that there were a LOT of wraith.

I can't put enough emphasis on "a lot of wraith" there were a lot.




Im still stuck on the wraith tech stuff. Its just not adding up for me..

I mean how could they beat the ancients but not have hyperdrives capable of galaxy to galaxy travel... It makes NO sense at all...

The wraith are really starting to remind me of the ultimate parasites. Goauld part II basically.

It looks like they leeched just enough technology from the ancients to become a threat and then simply sat back and fed for thousands of years. They dont appear to have any desire / need to attempt to advance. They dont even seem to have the curiousity to find out where the ancients went even though they knew exactly where atlantis is....

For an "advanced" race they are surprisingly .... dull witted - I have an enemy I know where he lives, one day his house moves and he no longer attacks me to protect his family.. Do you A) keep killing the family and ignore the fact your real enemy disappeared B) seek out the real enemy and deal with the family later....

First rule of warfare - know your enemy.....

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 06:42 PM
The Wraith didn't overpower the Ancients with fancy weapons and such, they just... the Ancients were outnumbered.


Its the math that doesnt add up though - speculation earlier in the season indicates that there are like 60-100 hives...

Now putting into account what we now know -
- wraith hyperdrives arent very good (roughly level with current human/earth hyperdrives - short burst basically)
- Wraith weapons are not that powerful - it took two hives to destroy that satellite and it wasnt a one shot kill

If there was a defense grid around the atlantis solar system - lets say 10 satellites. Knowing that the satellite shold have been able to destroy 3 hives no problem (aside from the whole short circuit thing that happened) that means that 30+ hives could have been wiped out by the satellites alone.

Either there are ALOT more wraith than we know of (unlikely) or the ancients killed/wiped out 50+% of the wraith forces and they still havent recovered.

The other comment is that if their hyperdrives arent that good how the hell could they possibly mass at one solar system - they could not possibly have built all those hives on one planet so just distance alone would indicate this is nt possible.

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 06:46 PM
Its the math that doesnt add up though - speculation earlier in the season indicates that there are like 60-100 hives...

Now putting into account what we now know -
- wraith hyperdrives arent very good (roughly level with current human/earth hyperdrives - short burst basically)
- Wraith weapons are not that powerful - it took two hives to destroy that satellite and it wasnt a one shot kill

If there was a defense grid around the atlantis solar system - lets say 10 satellites. Knowing that the satellite shold have been able to destroy 3 hives no problem (aside from the whole short circuit thing that happened) that means that 30+ hives could have been wiped out by the satellites alone.

Either there are ALOT more wraith than we know of (unlikely) or the ancients killed/wiped out 50+% of the wraith forces and they still havent recovered.

The other comment is that if their hyperdrives arent that good how the hell could they possibly mass at one solar system - they could not possibly have built all those hives on one planet so just distance alone would indicate this is nt possible.

Your last part there makes the most sense. The Ancients lost, but I'm sure they were able to inflict damage on a grand scale to the wraith. The wraith just won by numbers in the end.

Have you ever played starcraft? The Ancients got zergling rushed.

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 06:46 PM
The Wraith massively out numbered the ancients on a grand scale. IT really doesn't matter how powerful you are , bar ascension, if you have hundreds of ships firing everything they have at you and then going kamakazi into you, then you're going to get your butt kicked. The ancients technology was more than a match for wraith tech it's just that there were a LOT of wraith.

I can't put enough emphasis on "a lot of wraith" there were a lot.


Now the question of the day:

Is it:
"There WERE alot of Wraith"

or

"There ARE alot of Wraith"

Thats the key - im basically thinking that the wraith are like the Asgard - they dont really reproduce (because in the case of the wraith they effectively do not die of aging so there would be little to no need), so the massive wipeouts caused when fighting the Ancients were never really recovered.

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:48 PM
....

Shh... It's a TV show. It's not supposed to make sense :P

Well, I think there are more Wraith then they're showing. A helluva alot more. A crap load of Wraith.

What if the few ships that are showing up now are just... the first wave attack? Others follow not far behind.

I mean, in the season 1 finale of SG-1 Apophis showed up with two ships. Was that all he had? No. He could have showed up with more...

Am I making any sense?

I think I should shut up for tonight.

*falls asleep*

MartoufMarty
January 24th, 2005, 06:49 PM
Now the question of the day:

Is it:
"There WERE alot of Wraith"

or

"There ARE alot of Wraith"

Thats the key - im basically thinking that the wraith are like the Asgard - they dont really reproduce (because in the case of the wraith they effectively do not die of aging so there would be little to no need), so the massive wipeouts caused when fighting the Ancients were never really recovered.
I'm going for ARE and WERE...

There ARE alot of Wraith out there right now. MANY WRAITH!

But there WERE even more before.

So that's... yes. :P

TOA
January 24th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Your last part there makes the most sense. The Ancients lost, but I'm sure they were able to inflict damage on a grand scale to the wraith. The wraith just won by numbers in the end.

Have you ever played starcraft? The Ancients got zergling rushed.

Lol maybe - but it still doesnt add up - if Ancients had greater technology guerilla warfare would work well in this case, because only in large groups could the wraith over power ancient ships.

Im hoping that my next theory isnt correct - The only real way I could see the wraith kicking the ancients if they used something akin to hit and run attacks of the separated hives is if they were (stupid enough) to mass the majority of their fleet when going to meet the wraith for "peace" talks.. Overwhelming force would wipe out the ancients armada in one swipe at that point.

alaskannut
January 24th, 2005, 07:38 PM
I am with Marty on this one...its very likely that there are many more Hives than we currently know about and that there used to be A LOT more before their war with the ancients--its only been ten thousand yrs since the ancients fled and the wraith most likely have simply not been awake long enough to recover from their personnel/matierial losses.

alaskannut
January 24th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Now would someone PLEASE post a decent summary of the ep...not just a series of main points????

Orange Crush
January 24th, 2005, 08:05 PM
One would imagine that during the Ancient's heydey and their first encounter with the wraith there were billions and billions of humans for the wraith to feed upon--so they could've had huuuuuuuge numbers. We also know how powerful the Ancients were, so they'd have to be horrifically outnumbered. I figure that once the wraith conquered Pegasus and drove the Ancients out--their population was decimated, but so was the human population, and they had no choice but to hibernate for a few thousand years to get the human population up. Even so, there were fewer humans around than before, so they must've suffered another big dieoff from starvation--that's one of the Wraith's achille's heels . . . they may be hard to kill, but they will die without enough food.

And now that the Earthlings have woken them up prematurely, there's not enough food to go around, so they're in a pretty big bind. The wraith *must* get to the Milky Way, or they'll suffer another dieoff.

-Nick

Calicto
January 24th, 2005, 08:09 PM
Okay. Let's use common Sense.

Let's assume the following:

1 PuddleJumper = 10 Wraith Darts


It kinda makes sense. It'll probably take more resources to create 1 Puddle Jumper than 10 Wraith Darts, seeing how more effective weapons and shields are on the puddle jumper.

However, as we saw in Brotherhood, one carefully planted shot by a Wraith Dart could easily destroy a puddle jumper.

Now, Atlantis probably had 20 MAX Puddle Jumpers when it was fully operational. There doesnt seem like enough space nor function to have more.

1 Hive Ship is assumed to have 3 Cruiser which has 100 Darts approximately each. from the look of Before I sleep, It seemed like there were 5-6 Hive Ships outside Atlantis. That means, you have 20-30 Puddle Jumpers VS. 1000+ Wraith Darts.

Now, even more is the fact that QUANTITY is better than QUALITY.

If 1 puddle jumper does 100 damage per shot and can take 500 pts of damage while a Dart does 50 damage per shot and can take 50 pts of damage. then let's take the following scenario; 1 PJ vs. 10 Darts.

10 Darts have 10 different chances to hit PJ. While PJ has 1 chance to hit 1 Dart. If the Darts had 50% Accuracy and the PJ had 100% Accuracy that means the following.




First Shots Fired: 1 Dart Destroyed. (9/10) PJ is at 250/500
Second Shots Fired: 1 Dart Destroyed. (8/10) PJ is at 25/500.
Third Shot Fired. 1 Dart Destroyed. (7/10) 1 PJ Destroyed.


See where this is going? If you're a PJ pilot, you can realistically shoot down one or two Darts at a time while ammo lasts. If you're a Dart pilot, you've got apparently unlimited ammo and you've got friends. If you miss, you've got 294 friends who can help out.

Therefore, the Ancients may have been 100% technologically stronger than the Wraith, but in space warfare (in place of 3D combat), quantity wins over quality.

The Ancients could have had 10 Satellites and the Wraith could have easily unleashed a horde of Darts. The satellites can only shoot so many things at a time.

I believe that these 3 ships are merely a test of sheild. Do as much damage as you can. The Wraith's most important enemy are the Ancients. They need a distraction to waste the time of the Ancients (and to test their defense) so that they can gather all 60+ Hive ships and attack at once.

*Imagines 18,000 Wraith Darts taking on Shepherd's PJ & Atlantis*

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 09:33 PM
For anyone who didn't catch it. I'm pretty sure McKay called Zelenka "Bradik"

Carbito
January 24th, 2005, 09:39 PM
I'm pretty sure McKay called Zelenka "Bradik"

What scene was that in?

Alpha17X
January 24th, 2005, 10:12 PM
What scene was that in?


While McKay is packing to leave

Teal'c
January 24th, 2005, 10:25 PM
I just finished watching it (got up at 6:30 am to do so) and I'm literally in tears. Poor Peter, I can't believe he's gone. I thought it was going to be Bates, but he's half-gone too :( I certainly won't be able to concentrate at college today :(

Bossman
January 24th, 2005, 10:44 PM
I don't think Grodin is gone for good, not after I've read that interview with him. So keep you hopes up.

Angel of Fire SG1
January 24th, 2005, 11:04 PM
OMG I LOVED IT!!

EXCEPT THEY KILLED PETER!! Although it IS still STargate LOL we know how they are with killing ppl....they have a tendency to...not be dead!!

BUT OMG IT WAS SO COOL!!

AND TEYLA PUNCHED BATES!!

*calms down*

I thought that was so cool, and I'm not even a big Teyla fan but I was like "OOOH GO TEYLA" and me listening with headphones attracted the attention of my parents who were calmly watching the news

WHOOPS! hehe

DAMN CLIFFHANGERS!!!

*sits around impatiently waiting for next week*

IMForeman
January 24th, 2005, 11:47 PM
I think we can now conclusively say that the Wraith do not have Asgard level hyper-drives. Ancient tech is far superior to Wraith tech... Yay!

-IMF

Zamboni
January 25th, 2005, 12:25 AM
As far as the "Wraith outnumber Ancient" theory goes, I think it does makes sense. It's kinda like Russians vs. Germans in WWII, Germans have better tanks but Russians have more.

Or if you were to take an example from Stargate the movie, recall the two Jaffa that got swamped by the miners near the end... Sure they've got staff weapons but there were so many miners.

And here's a brief summary.

Starting the episode is McKay telling Weir that he believes the Ancient Orbital weapon can be used to destroy the hive ships. Weir agrees and McKay sets off with Grodin and a pilot (forgot his name). Meanwhile, John, Teyla, and com. are looking for another possible alpha site. Things go wrong and Bates accuses Teyla of unwillingly giving away information. John comes to Teyla's aid by explaining they ran into a T-Rex like creature. Teyla however, got into a confrontation with Bates but John stops her in time.

McKay and com. arrives at the weapon platform and managed to get the station on line. Grodin activates the AG field and McKay falls on the floor rather hard. A string of bad luck then ensued as McKay draws the short straw (pencil) and has to go EVA to fix the satalite.

Back on Atlantis, Bates is found unconscious from serious injury. Teyla is suspected and questioned by John. She is soon cleared by Beckett as he finds Wraith DNA on Bates. John, Teyla, and Aiden go after the Wraith in two teams. They managed to capture the Wraith.

Meanwhile McKay manages to get the station on line, just in time for the hive ships' arrival. The weapon fires and destroy its first target easily, however the weapon goes off line and Grodin is trapped inside as the remaining hive ships fire on the satalite.

After getting the bad news Weir declares the plan to evacuate the city. John get frustrated with their new prisoner and decides to kill it...

Positively Kanyon
January 25th, 2005, 12:38 AM
I thought this episode was fantastic, with lots of little tidbits revelead... Most interesting was the Database stuff that was mentioned about space travel, ascension and weapon schematics... They will definately play a bigger part down the track...

I jumped out of my chair and cheered when the first Wraith hive ship was destroyed... A great Atlantis moment! I was pretty pissed off about Grodin dying, that was definately a bullsh!t decision by the writers. The Seige - Part II will definately up the ante next week... Should be a very interesting battle...

Zipacna_fr
January 25th, 2005, 02:21 AM
ANALYSIS
IMO, Grodin death is due to Zelenka developpement.
Zelenka and Grodin were redondant at "resident" tech/sci character, like if there was two Siler or two Hariman in SG-1. Except his expertise, Grodin hadnt any significant character specificity.
Zelenka is simultaneously the "czech guy" and McKay rival. Grodin didnt survive to such natural selection of the more efficient character...
TV series, like Life, begin with too much and continue with just enough. That's an universal rule of stabilty...

Now, the second thing which make "tilt" in my head was the database stuff.
We learnt that they only "scratched the surface", like the asgard did.
Oh my god! what will they discover in future seasons?
The ascencion recepy?
The plans of the Nuclearisator, a powerful weapon powered by 20 zpms which is able to destroy armadas 20 millions lightyears away?
The true scenario of Gone with the wind end?
The telephone number of the Hologram lady?

An other thing : the orbital platform shot like the mini-ones in SG1 episode "Absolute power" : standard laser thing, no jellyfishs. IMO, Orbital platforms are one of the many technologies Goa'uld had stolen.

conclusion :
It dont seem that it s a season finale. Just a speedy episode to introduce the catastrophic situation where stands the TRUE finale... Its like The Lost City Part One.
Part 2 will have 42 minutes to introduce Terrian contingent, to make new colonel shrie with Shep, etc, i mean, with all spoilers we read, and THE end we dont know, this episode will be incredibly fast!

last, but no least:
WHO WAS THIS NEW LIEUTENANT WHO CAN PILOT PJs SO EASILY?

Blend
January 25th, 2005, 03:20 AM
i didnt expect them to blow up a wraith ship.. I thought it would cut out and restart next time with earts forces arriving..

But it didnt take away from it at all.

I was slightly bothered that grodin was killed, but its not that big a deal, he wasnt a main character that i was attached to like some nuts here (j/k).

Great episode, althought the satelites easy dispatch of the ship was.. a bit much. 1/3 of their forces gone in a moment.

I was suprised by the wraiths awesome weapons. Whoever said that it took 2 ships to destroyt the sattelite and not even in 1 hit was really not giving credit where its due. Itd have only taken 1 ship to destroy the satellite. They sprayed that blue plasma (?) rapid fire into the sattelite and blew it to hell in moments.

overall very impressive and i cant wait to see the end. Too bad Sg1 and Atlantis are all our of sync. Id have been good to see it in the intended order.

vamped_me
January 25th, 2005, 04:09 AM
last, but no least:
WHO WAS THIS NEW LIEUTENANT WHO CAN PILOT PJs SO EASILY?

I haven't seen the ep, yet. (*crosses fingers for tonight*), but could it be Stackhouse? Him and that other guy... starts with M... (the one that was killed in the brohterhood), I think they both knew how to fly the jumper.
But we do know that more than a dozen people have the gene. Would make sense that they trained all of them. Like Beckett can fly. From what I gather, it's not *that* hard to fly the jumper. John, with his training, would of course do it best, but it seems to be pretty instictive. You think, it flies. IF you manage well with the other technology, basic/reasonably good control over the jumper shouldn't be too hard. Like it doesn'T take much to learn how to drive a car - for most people anyways. But to drive a race car, different thing. So a normal car would be normal jumper flying abilities, racing cars--- John.

Blend
January 25th, 2005, 04:14 AM
Markum and Stackhouse both died though, so it couldnt be him.

Teal'c
January 25th, 2005, 04:21 AM
Markum and Stackhouse both died though, so it couldnt be him.
Stackhouse is still alive and can't pilot Jumpers. Miller is obviously the other pilot from The Brotherhood that we didn't get to see... probably with Stackhouse on board with him.

I think Craig might have said that stuff in the interview so as not to spoil the surprise... PETER!!! :(

keppiezbt
January 25th, 2005, 04:23 AM
i dont get why people are so hung up on this wraith tech? it was never said they were super advance. the hologram lady said their power rivaled their own. and then in before i slept it was made crystal clear that one on one, the ancients won. but the wraith had too many numbers. remember the screen when the cargo ship was coming in? there was the 1 cargo ship and hundreds of darts. obviously the darts arent that powerful as they have it the PJs before and not blown it up but enough hits and pj goes down.

like the kid said- they got a zerlig rush. 1 pj may take out 10 darts but what about the other 90 that are coming his way. wier said clearly they lost not b/c of tech, but that they were completly out numbered.

see its the simple.

V-MAN
January 25th, 2005, 04:50 AM
What I don't understand is, the system atlantis is in. is kinda big as are most star systems. In this episode they say that the ancient satalite is the last of a network that would have protected the whole star system.

Anyone care to take a guess on the odds that the Wraith fleet would enter the star system right next to that one remaining Ancient satalite let alone within range of it's particle beam?

plz don't reply with something stupid like "oh but they through it was dead so they wasn't worried about it"

Space is vast

Maybe there's a reasonable explanation such as the satalite was located in one of the few if only safe places to exit hyperspace in a star system due to navigational hazards such as planetary bodies etc. Even then that's assuming a lot but it makes sense to me.

Alpha17X
January 25th, 2005, 04:53 AM
i dont get why people are so hung up on this wraith tech? it was never said they were super advance. the hologram lady said their power rivaled their own. and then in before i slept it was made crystal clear that one on one, the ancients won. but the wraith had too many numbers. remember the screen when the cargo ship was coming in? there was the 1 cargo ship and hundreds of darts. obviously the darts arent that powerful as they have it the PJs before and not blown it up but enough hits and pj goes down.

like the kid said- they got a zerlig rush. 1 pj may take out 10 darts but what about the other 90 that are coming his way. wier said clearly they lost not b/c of tech, but that they were completly out numbered.

see its the simple.


KID?! :( :mad:

is 23

FoolishPleasure
January 25th, 2005, 04:55 AM
So we know Teyla needs anger management classes, and TPTB are trying to give her mind-meld talents now, ala Spock? She seems to totally change every week. I'm really tired of her - her character has changed so much, she almost seems schizo. ;)

We got another Wraith prisoner and they bumped him off awfully fast. I really want to see some juicy interaction with the Wraith, other than killing.

And Grodin. *sigh* . .I was really starting to like him - big disappointment. I'm not overly happy with this episode, but will hold judgement until Pt. 2.

AlphaBlu
January 25th, 2005, 05:04 AM
OMG! They killed Grodin! Those *******s!

And they put Bates in a coma.

Interestingly, I had a feeling that there was going to be a "Go! Leave me here and I'll fire the weapon" moment, but I thought it'd be McKay that did it, not Grodin. Then I thought the weapon wouldn't fire and the Wraith would ignore it and they'd rescue McKay.

Then, I thought in the last few seconds of the episode, Becket would walk into Weir's office where her and Sheppard were talking, only to tell them that Bates had just died from his injuries.

Instead we get Bates in limbo and Grodin D-E-A-D-DEAD!

Ahh! This is too much...

BYE

MartoufMarty
January 25th, 2005, 05:06 AM
So we know Teyla needs anger management classes, and TPTB are trying to give her mind-meld talents now, ala Spock? She seems to totally change every week. I'm really tired of her - her character has changed so much, she almost seems schizo. ;)

We got another Wraith prisoner and they bumped him off awfully fast. I really want to see some juicy interaction with the Wraith, other than killing.

And Grodin. *sigh* . .I was really starting to like him - big disappointment. I'm not overly happy with this episode, but will hold judgement until Pt. 2.
I'm really liking Teyla. She's cool now. She has a kind of purpose. Really liked The Gift.

I think that I would be kind of pissed off and hit Bates if he accused me of giving away information to the Wraith.

Bob should have lasted longer, yes... :(

And Grodin... well... with the interview with the guy who plays him, it turns out he's really not actually quite dead considering the guy was saying that he would like to go off-world in season 2. We're just supposed to think he's dead. He's not really. The Wraith probably beamed him out.

If I were the Wraith I would beam him up and try to get information from him.

So don't be too sad.

I loved this episode!

Can't wait for next week!

queenselqet31
January 25th, 2005, 05:06 AM
For anyone who didn't catch it. I'm pretty sure McKay called Zelenka "Bradik"
Maybe it's his first name or something. I tried looking it up, but so far haven't found anything on it... but I did find out that Zelenka means "little green one". Hmm.

MartoufMarty
January 25th, 2005, 05:07 AM
Maybe it's his first name or something. I tried looking it up, but so far haven't found anything on it... but I did find out that Zelenka means "little green one". Hmm.
MAYBE ZELENKA'S AN ALIEN SPY!

AHHH!!!

*runs*

Hatcheter
January 25th, 2005, 06:26 AM
Maybe it's his first name or something. I tried looking it up, but so far haven't found anything on it... but I did find out that Zelenka means "little green one". Hmm.

I'm pretty sure he called him Radek, like Radek Bonk, the Czech born center of the Ottawa Senators. (I can apply my hockey fandom to Stargate? SWEET! :D )


Overall: A Freakin' Awesome Episode!!! It was so good I had to watch it twice in a row. My random likes:

The pacing is note-perfect, quickly establishing the episode's tension and then just tightening the screws on you.

"That's life long pain."

Teyla finally hit Bates. He did have it coming. I kinda hope they get a chance to finish it; Telya would win, I think, but Bates would give pretty good. Might help them find a mutual respect.

Zero-G: Excelently done. I hope they put out a documentary or something about how they did it.

The Ancient Weapon Platform carved that hive ship like a Thanksgiving Turkey. Then the other two ships recovered, and punched it full of holes. The Wraith obviously have a whole lot of fire power at their disposal.

Bob's interrogation. No mercy for the merciless.

The Weapon platform set. Very functional looking, and very cool. This must be where all the money saved by reusing the "generic stone arcitecture set" went.

"We are at war, Elizabeth. In war, there are casualties."

And there's the fact that all this was just a set up for the true finale. That should be incredible.


I'd like to address the issue about Wraith hyperdrives, if I may. It's not unreasonable to think that their hyperdrives have limited range and/or speed, compared to the Asgard, or even the Goa'uld. Look where they are. The Pegasus Dwarf Irregular Galaxy is only 4,000 lightyears wide, tiny by galactic standards (the Milky Way is 100,000 lightyears across). They've never had a need to go further. They drove the Atlanteans under the water, where they appeared to stay for thousands of years. The Wraith obviously had no idea that there was food to be had in other galaxies, especially not one three million lightyears away. There was never a need to improve upon technology that did exactly what they required.

I'm thinking that future seasons will not only be about protecting Atlantis from the Wraith, but also about keeping one step ahead of them, foiling any other plans they develop to invade the Milky Way.

TOA
January 25th, 2005, 07:21 AM
Great episode, althought the satelites easy dispatch of the ship was.. a bit much. 1/3 of their forces gone in a moment.

I was suprised by the wraiths awesome weapons. Whoever said that it took 2 ships to destroyt the sattelite and not even in 1 hit was really not giving credit where its due. Itd have only taken 1 ship to destroy the satellite. They sprayed that blue plasma (?) rapid fire into the sattelite and blew it to hell in moments.

The basis for the comment about the relative power of the wraith weapons is basically this: The satellite had no shields - it was basically a big metal shell with a power source. If I make a round hollow metal ball 50 ft across and give you a patriot missle to shoot at it, it would explode.

The fact that the wraith required a large number of shots (I would guess 10-15) to cause a defenseless metal shell to explode (into itty bitty pieces) says something about the actual power their weapons exert.

astronomicalchick
January 25th, 2005, 07:27 AM
they killed Peter...

*cries*

TOA
January 25th, 2005, 07:28 AM
I'd like to address the issue about Wraith hyperdrives, if I may. It's not unreasonable to think that their hyperdrives have limited range and/or speed, compared to the Asgard, or even the Goa'uld. Look where they are. The Pegasus Dwarf Irregular Galaxy is only 4,000 lightyears wide, tiny by galactic standards (the Milky Way is 100,000 lightyears across). They've never had a need to go further. They drove the Atlanteans under the water, where they appeared to stay for thousands of years. The Wraith obviously had no idea that there was food to be had in other galaxies, especially not one three million lightyears away. There was never a need to improve upon technology that did exactly what they required.

I'm thinking that future seasons will not only be about protecting Atlantis from the Wraith, but also about keeping one step ahead of them, foiling any other plans they develop to invade the Milky Way.

With the hyperdrive thing - the problem I have with it is that the ancients were actively fighting the wraith right up until the day they left atlantis. If you were fighting a war and had your enemy boxed in, then suddenly they stop fighting and just disappear - wouldnt you look to see where they went?

People dont fight a war for 100+ years then all of a sudden disappear.... Its just that the logic doesnt add up.

Similarly the fact that they (Wraith) didnt make any attempt to goto another galaxy to look for another food source also is a logic flaw... Even with earth technology we know there are other galaxies, knowing humans existed on hundreds of planets in pegasus even the most limited intellegence says that there must be other places with viable food sources. The wraith didnt even attempt to find them....

I agree about the future seasons - its clear that at some point the wraith will figure out where Earth is and how to get there.

Quinn Mallory
January 25th, 2005, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=TOA]People dont fight a war for 100+ years then all of a sudden disappear.... Its just that the logic doesnt add up.

Similarly the fact that they (Wraith) didnt make any attempt to goto another galaxy to look for another food source also is a logic flaw... Even with earth technology we know there are other galaxies, knowing humans existed on hundreds of planets in pegasus even the most limited intellegence says that there must be other places with viable food sources. The wraith didnt even attempt to find them....
QUOTE]

I think from the point of view of the Wraith in the battle against the Ancients, the Wraith saw Atlantis sunk under the ocean and probably just assumed all the Ancients just drowned with the city.

The plan was probably to have the Wraith invade the Milky Way when the SG-1 show ends. Then the Atlantis team will probably control both Pegasus and have a good amount of activity back on Earth to defend against the Wraiths. Now that SG-1 is continuing (which I am of course grateful for), this may delay the Wraiths' date with Earth. I guess it also depends on who the new enemy will be for SG-1 next season.

Quinn Mallory
January 25th, 2005, 08:03 AM
they killed Peter...

*cries*

I was sad to see him go. I expected him to take out another hive ship by sacraficing himself but I guess he never got the chance. He is the most prominent UK character on stargate, right? I wonder how the UK fans feel about this.

I was definitely relieved that Dr. Zelenka didn't go on that mission.

Quinn Mallory
January 25th, 2005, 08:13 AM
I guess I can't keep all my thoughts in one post but had to spread it out (at least I am building on the number of posts). Here are some scattered thoughts.

I am left with an empty feeling after this episode and I will probably not watch it again until next week.

I was surprised by how Teyla went after Bates, perhaps the effect of being possessed by a Wraith hasn't wear off yet? I know they want to shield the presence of a Wraith at that point of the show but I hope that this is not just a out of character moment without futre explanation.

Did Sheppard called the Wraith "Brian" once mixed in with "Bob" twice? Sheppard let his emotion to get a hold of him...again.

Just one more episode for season 1, I wonder who will survive until season 2.

Finally, a thought that concerns more about the episode Sanctuary than this episode. Can the Atlantis team just let the Wraith chase them to the planet in Sancturay and them Athar in the effort to protect the people on that planet will have to destroy the Wraiths. This would be way to convenient and something tells me Athar may be a forgotten character.

FoolishPleasure
January 25th, 2005, 08:28 AM
they killed Peter...

*cries*

*grabbing Stoning Kit*

Come on. . .let's go find the writers!!! :D

astronomicalchick
January 25th, 2005, 08:43 AM
I was sad to see him go. I expected him to take out another hive ship by sacraficing himself but I guess he never got the chance. He is the most prominent UK character on stargate, right? I wonder how the UK fans feel about this.

I was definitely relieved that Dr. Zelenka didn't go on that mission.

Beckett is a UK character, as well as Scottish (Scots are both Scottish and from the UK), he was English and from the UK. I liked him...


But not as much as Zelenka... phew!

astronomicalchick
January 25th, 2005, 08:44 AM
*grabbing Stoning Kit*

Come on. . .let's go find the writers!!! :D

I'll bring the penguins...


Grodin... *cries again*

Ohper
January 25th, 2005, 09:42 AM
However, as we saw in Brotherhood, one carefully planted shot by a Wraith Dart could easily destroy a puddle jumper

That Dart was modified, they said that very explicitly.


Now, Atlantis probably had 20 MAX Puddle Jumpers when it was fully operational. There doesnt seem like enough space nor function to have more.

We've seen a fraction of Atlantis. You simply can't make that kind of assumption. Despite the obvious fact that they would be kept near the Gate, the mere fact that we saw one cruising around Antarctica means they used them for other things as well.

Outside of those two problems, it was a really good post :)

You seem to enjoy crunching numbers, so here are some images for your counting pleasure (I assume the big dots are Hives, while the little ones are Darts):

http://img179.exs.cx/img179/8909/far4ll.jpg

http://img179.exs.cx/img179/7038/near1bs.jpg


What I don't understand is, the system atlantis is in. is kinda big as are most star systems. In this episode they say that the ancient satalite is the last of a network that would have protected the whole star system.

Anyone care to take a guess on the odds that the Wraith fleet would enter the star system right next to that one remaining Ancient satalite let alone within range of it's particle beam?

Zelenka said it's the last of several dozen. Dictionary.com's primary definition of several is "Being of a number more than two or three but not many". I'm thinking at least four, at the very most ten dozen satellites once defended the area. The mere fact that only one remains indicates that they were all put to good use.

I rewatched the part with Zelenka's quote, I didn't hear anything about defending the entire star system. If you could give me an approximate time, I'd appreciate it :)

Now, onto My Opinion of the Episode

Overall: Great.

Character development: Zelenka's development and screen-time is clearly being put in place to offset the death of you-know-who. I like this, since I'm a Zelenka fan and I didn't much like you-know-who. We also saw the excellent scenes with Teyla and Bates, and learned about how Teyla and her people get offended by accusations of working for the Wraith. Excellent, largely overlooked scene with Halling speaking to Weir about destroying Atlantis. Really said alot about the differences between Athosians and Earthlings' respective points of view. Shep had a good, although rather short scene with Bob. Ford was a little annoying with this one, following Shep around the whole time.

Action: Nice seeing the Hive ship destroyed, that was pretty much it. I wouldn't have minded seeing the T-Rex, but oh well ;)

Definetly can't wait for next week.

IMForeman
January 25th, 2005, 10:50 AM
One of my favorite moments for me is when Sheppard walks into the brig area and looks at the Wraith prisoner. At that moment, I said "Hello, Bob." Then a moment later, Sheppard names him Bob. Hehehe. That was fun.

-IMF

elvital
January 25th, 2005, 11:38 AM
Hm, overall fantastic episode - can't wait for Part 2 :( :( :(
I liked who they gave Teyla a purpose - though I don't especially like the purpose, seems very Vulcan to me - never mind... :rolleyes:



Maybe there's a reasonable explanation such as the satalite was located in one of the few if only safe places to exit hyperspace in a star system due to navigational hazards such as planetary bodies etc. Even then that's assuming a lot but it makes sense to me.
I think this is probably the best explanation already - and as the ancients would be the very first to know where you best leave hyperspace, it comes as no surprise that they put their satellite (at least one) right there :)


Now Grodin...I feel rather sorry that he died (did he, anyway? ;) ) but still better than Bates (hope he doesn't die in part 2 :S )...
Still, they should have killed off the other pilot - he got a lot to say so I assumed he would have been an easy-kill :D
By the way, I really wonder where they found that pilot anyway ^^
I can't imagine him aboard Stackhouse's ship - he seems to be a much better pilot than Beckett - so it would probably have been him flying instead of Beckett....

And then about shipping...
I saw Teyla/Sheppard getting stronger again after "Letters from Pegasus" - I just wanna see that one :D
Zelenka seemed to be able to speak to Weir without too much trouble though :p

IMForeman
January 25th, 2005, 11:54 AM
Hey, who wants to get some Teyla/Bates shipping going. ;)

"You're a security threat!"
"You're insulting my people!"

They stare, then kiss passionately. Music swells.

-IMF

insomniac8400
January 25th, 2005, 11:57 AM
Most likely with Grodin we will find that the wraith captured him, and who knows maybe thats a reason they stopped advancement. He is going to know everything about the defenses that atlantis has and they will need time to get the info out of him. But of course this is speculation. So in the spirit of speculation, lets say that orbital defense platform, since designed to have people in it, had a transporter built into to it and would either beam people to the surface of the planet or back to atlantis in the event that its destruction was emiment. I doubt he is dead, but I am banking on the wraith having him, and Teyla finding out about it. That way they with the help of earth, defend themselves from the wraith and rescue Grodin.

Shep'sSocks
January 25th, 2005, 12:20 PM
Ford was a little annoying with this one, following Shep around the whole time.

Yeah but he seems to have grown himself something of a backbone because he actually disagreed with Sheppard at times. Looked a mite uncomfortable about it but he had an opinion that wasn't Sheppard's, which was nice for him.

Shep'sSocks
January 25th, 2005, 12:22 PM
Hey, who wants to get some Teyla/Bates shipping going. ;)

"You're a security threat!"
"You're insulting my people!"

They stare, then kiss passionately. Music swells.

-IMF

Heh, I thought that, too.

Stargate Agent
January 25th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Wow what a great season Atlantis has going. This episode was where most things went down the toilet. That is exactly was should happen during a season finale!!!

I really am disappointed that Grodin died he was a cool character...
but as Q told Picard in ST: TNG "If you are afraid to get a little bloody nose then you should go back to your world and stay there". (Something to that effect anyway)

I hate waiting for next week for the second part it!!! I always wondered in brotherhood why some wraith wouldn't sneak into atlantis... It only made sense...

I think the Hive ships now know that Atlantis has no shield and is defenseless I reallly wonder how they are gonna pull off a resolution next week.

I also really loved them tying in different technologies and not just relying on Atlantis' weapons and shields. It makes for great variety in a show.

It might of had some sad moments but this episode just shows what level Atlantis is operating at and it is only first season!!!

joanne1138
January 25th, 2005, 12:47 PM
My house is freezing an I've been curled up on the floor watching this episode. W. O. W. Is this another one by Martin Gero, by the way? I've liked all of his so far. Except Childhoods End.

Anyway I was crying a but when Grodin 'died'because I'd got rather attached to him. First the Brotherhood Puddlejumper mishap and now this. And Bates! My favourite minor character list is down to two from five. Bates had better not die... I am holding out hope though about Grodin though because of that Craig Veroni interview. Anyway, this is sci fi! No one stays dead for long. Look at Apophis! ;)

Oh and as for what the UK fans think if he *is* dead, I can definitely say as a UK fan: *sniff* also *sulk*.

The funny thing is that as soonas they saw them, my family were sure they would either kill off Grodin or the pilot guy whose name escapes me. Why? The were wearing... red shirts, well, overall type things. Heh. :p

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 25th, 2005, 01:04 PM
Noooooo! Grodin!!! I liked him! Why couldn't the pilot dude have died? Rodney could have flown the Jumper back to Atlantis!

Peter!! :(

What a great episode! Had me on the edge of my seat the whole time! Mostly because I was terrified of what would happen to Grodin. OTH I'm glad Bates is ok, I like the dude.

I can't wait for the second part!

V-MAN
January 25th, 2005, 01:21 PM
[QUOTE=Quetzcoatl]
Zelenka said it's the last of several dozen. Dictionary.com's primary definition of several is "Being of a number more than two or three but not many". I'm thinking at least four, at the very most ten dozen satellites once defended the area. The mere fact that only one remains indicates that they were all put to good use.

I rewatched the part with Zelenka's quote, I didn't hear anything about defending the entire star system. If you could give me an approximate time, I'd appreciate it :) QUOTE]

The fact that only 1 satalite remains proves nothing other than that the others were destroyed....

Okay I missheard what he said but there's no need to be an asshat and start quoting dictionary definitions of a simple word like "several" that's just plain rude.

I was correct in that it's the last one and the original point I was making that seems to have flown straight over your head still stands.

What are the odds that the wraith fleet would decide to enter the star system within range of the satalites particle beam? Even if the wraith fleet was approching the system from same direction the odds have got to be staggering.

They really should have explained why the wraith fleet would pass so close to the satalite it can't be a coincidence.

MartoufMarty
January 25th, 2005, 01:21 PM
I have a theory that the whole Time Ship thing with Moebius part 1 and 2 from SG-1 will play a part with Grodin.

I have a feeling, because it doesn't really see like Grodin is dead if you heard about the interview with the guy who plays him. He was talking about his character in season 2!

AlphaBlu
January 25th, 2005, 01:37 PM
That Dart was modified, they said that very explicitly.

For long ranged flight and recon. I doubt they would've upped its weapons.

BYE

Whitster
January 25th, 2005, 01:51 PM
It's a shame Grodin was killed but I hope he gets replaced with an English character that isn't a posh sterotype like he was, someone more down to earth that doesn't talk liike the Americans think we do or should, how bout Simon Pegg as the new English rep?

joanne1138
January 25th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Hmm. I've seen worse portrayals of British. Apart from the accent which actually grew on me I couldn't find much fault with Grodin. *shrug* Maybe I know too many posh people. :p

Ohper
January 25th, 2005, 02:23 PM
plz don't reply with something stupid like "oh but they through it was dead so they wasn't worried about it"

There's your answer. You call it stupid very offhandedly, with no real reasoning. The show established that their route would take them right by it. For all they care, it's just a piece of scrap metal with no energy signatures being given off. They weren't thinking in terms of "better safe than sorry", they care about getting to their new feeding ground.

You call me an "asshat", and yet I'm the rude one? I merely referenced the definition so we wouldn't wind up plodding through an argument of semantics.


For long ranged flight and recon. I doubt they would've upped its weapons.

Why do you say that? The Wraith know that the expedition has Jumpers at their disposal, they only sent one dart in and it makes sense that they would send it in prepared.

Teal'c
January 25th, 2005, 02:25 PM
I have a theory that the whole Time Ship thing with Moebius part 1 and 2 from SG-1 will play a part with Grodin.

I have a feeling, because it doesn't really see like Grodin is dead if you heard about the interview with the guy who plays him. He was talking about his character in season 2!
Which he could easily just have been saying to keep Grodin's death a secret.

Peter Grodin's last words: "I'm sorry." :(

As for pilots, Atlantis has the following pilots:
- Shep
- Beckett
- Miller
- McKay to an extent
- The late Sgt. Markham

Stackhouse is not a Puddle Jumper pilot, if you recall 38 Minutes he was Markham's "co-pilot" (like Ford normally is to Shep)

joanne1138
January 25th, 2005, 02:38 PM
Peter Grodin's last words: "I'm sorry." :(



Double sniff :( :(

Ohper
January 25th, 2005, 02:46 PM
McKay to an extent

http://img194.exs.cx/img194/346/fgff4pv.jpg

;)

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 25th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Woah!

Poor, poor Petrie.... :sad eyes

MacKay was really choked up, there. So am I.

I hope he's in some protected part of the satalite, to be recovered in part two. :eek:

Great stuff from Bates, Zelenka and Peter. Kudos to the PTB for developing the secondary cast. :)

And there was a Wraith in the city! Cool! I was very happy to see "Bob" show that upstart dinner entree that just because she had certain telepathic abilities she was no match for him. Yes! Now there's an enemy we can count on to be hard to beat. He must have fed just before encountering Bates to have not killed him.

I'm hoping for a nice scene between Bates and Teyla when he comes around. Perhaps an apology from Bates, some mutual peacemaking.... Or, not. It might be better to keep some animosity between those two characters....

Oh, and Bates has got spidey sense. :D

A good, gripping drama. Lots of little, almost throwaway lines that are sure to take prominence in future eps, like Zelenka's line about using the virus to attack the Wraith systems.

I liked Ford's little nod to Daniel Jackson about how they should name the planets. :p

Oh, and how many of you yelled out loud at the geniuses that 3 people can't play rock, paper, sissors? :p :p :p

Good viewing. :)

MartoufMarty
January 25th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Which he could easily just have been saying to keep Grodin's death a secret.

Peter Grodin's last words: "I'm sorry." :(

As for pilots, Atlantis has the following pilots:
- Shep
- Beckett
- Miller
- McKay to an extent
- The late Sgt. Markham

Stackhouse is not a Puddle Jumper pilot, if you recall 38 Minutes he was Markham's "co-pilot" (like Ford normally is to Shep)
I'm holding onto the hope he's still alive.

It would make it so much cooler.

He can't just die!

Especially when it's the end of the FIRST part of the two part season finale.

I have a belief that if a character is to die, they'll die not in the first part of the season finale, but the second part.

Or not die at all :P

... Or kind of die, but not really...

Or die and come back to life...

You get my point :P

MartoufMarty
January 25th, 2005, 03:04 PM
Oh, and how many of you yelled out loud at the geniuses that 3 people can't play rock, paper, sissors? :p :p :p

Good viewing. :)

That was the greatest.

Had me laughing out loud.

Rodney in the space suit complaining about the amount of air and then later falling down like that and screaming like a woman were also great parts of the episode.

Also I have to say that Rodney and Zelenka have to be my favorite little team. They didn't really spend much time working side by side in this episode, but they're just so cool together! :)

Quinn Mallory
January 25th, 2005, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=astronomicalchick]Beckett is a UK character, as well as Scottish (Scots are both Scottish and from the UK), he was English and from the UK. I liked him...
QUOTE]

Of course, somehow I forgot about that. Beckett wears the Scottland flag rather than the British Union Jack. I didn't think Scotland (in the present day) is that different from England.

Mio
January 25th, 2005, 03:12 PM
They....they....they...


...they killed peter.


How could they?

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 25th, 2005, 03:16 PM
It looks like they leeched just enough technology from the ancients to become a threat and then simply sat back and fed for thousands of years. They dont appear to have any desire / need to attempt to advance.

I think that you are mostly right about that. But I see this as a scary thing. :eek:



First rule of warfare - know your enemy.....

You are assuming that the Wraith view the Ancients as enemies. They might, of course, and I just missed the references to their "war." I think the Wraith simply saw the Ancients as wild food, harder to catch than most "game", dangerous at times, but not an enemy.

Ohper
January 25th, 2005, 03:35 PM
You are assuming that the Wraith view the Ancients as enemies. They might, of course, and I just missed the references to their "war." I think the Wraith simply saw the Ancients as wild food, harder to catch than most "game", dangerous at times, but not an enemy.

You might want to check this (http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/aliens/) out. :)

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 25th, 2005, 03:38 PM
Anyone care to take a guess on the odds that the Wraith fleet would enter the star system right next to that one remaining Ancient satalite let alone within range of it's particle beam?


This may be one of those stupid answers because I'm no astrophysicist, but perhaps spaceships can only exit hyperspace into a Lagrange point. The satalite is situated in a LaGrange point(The Defiant One), so the hiveships would have no choice but to pass within range of it. If that is the case, then a weapons satalite platform in LaGrange point around the galaxy makes sense. Otherwise, given, as you said, the vastness of space, it is a waste of materials.

And, before anyone says anything, yes, I know that they don't seem to have a problem entering hyperspace wherever and whenever they darned well please, as suits the action - kinda like how zats will knock you senseless for hours at a time, one ep, just knock the wind out of you the next, and put you down for minutes the next. :rolleyes:

V-MAN
January 25th, 2005, 03:54 PM
There's your answer. You call it stupid very offhandedly, with no real reasoning. The show established that their route would take them right by it. For all they care, it's just a piece of scrap metal with no energy signatures being given off. They weren't thinking in terms of "better safe than sorry", they care about getting to their new feeding ground.

You call me an "asshat", and yet I'm the rude one? I merely referenced the definition so we wouldn't wind up plodding through an argument of semantics.



Why do you say that? The Wraith know that the expedition has Jumpers at their disposal, they only sent one dart in and it makes sense that they would send it in prepared.

Still very "convenient" that the wraith would go right by that last remaining satalite. The show just explains it away as a coincidence.

My point still stands.

As for referencing that definition, it was both pointless and unnecessary you did it to be rude and act magnanimous. If your gonna be rude to people expect them to be rude back.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 25th, 2005, 03:57 PM
You might want to check this (http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/aliens/) out. :)

Ouuu!

I stand corrected. :)

Thanks for the link. I never think to read the annals of the Keeper for some reason.

V-MAN
January 25th, 2005, 04:00 PM
This may be one of those stupid answers because I'm no astrophysicist, but perhaps spaceships can only exit hyperspace into a Lagrange point. The satalite is situated in a LaGrange point(The Defiant One), so the hiveships would have no choice but to pass within range of it. If that is the case, then a weapons satalite platform in LaGrange point around the galaxy makes sense. Otherwise, given, as you said, the vastness of space, it is a waste of materials.

And, before anyone says anything, yes, I know that they don't seem to have a problem entering hyperspace wherever and whenever they darned well please, as suits the action - kinda like how zats will knock you senseless for hours at a time, one ep, just knock the wind out of you the next, and put you down for minutes the next. :rolleyes:

That's what I was thinking with regards to what you said about the lagrange point. Otherwise those satalites would be a waste of materials. There has to be a reason for it being there other than to randomly hope it will snag a ship that is foolish enough to come close enough.

Major Tyler
January 25th, 2005, 04:00 PM
This may be one of those stupid answers because I'm no astrophysicist, but perhaps spaceships can only exit hyperspace into a Lagrange point.What is a LaGrange Point?

V-MAN
January 25th, 2005, 04:05 PM
What is a LaGrange Point?


This (http://www.physics.montana.edu/faculty/cornish/lagrange.html)

This explains it better (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_point)

Easter Lily
January 25th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Whew... it's getting hot in here... :p

Just when you think that it is not possible for Atlantis to feel more desperate, voila... the TPTB pull out another trick! Wow... they've really upped the tension yet again... what a fabulous first season this has been. I don't think I've felt this much urgency since season 3 of B5...

"In war there are casualties..." The TPTB are certainly taking this as their motto for Season One... what is the body count now?... Poor Grodin... at least he gave his life for others... noble to the last... will miss his James Masonish voice...

Ha... the "Bob" wraith finally emerges... Shep's got such great chemistry with the Wraith, hasn't he?

The running naming joke resurfaces :D ... I'm with Ford... labelling planets with numbers and alphabets is very unromantic... Now I remember why I like Ford... :D He's got this boyish eagerness that I find endearing.

Weir gets to do a Winston Churchill! Yeah, the Battle for Atlantis! That woman is going from strength to strength.

Lots of Zelenka... nice... I heard "Bradek" also... :D Banter with McKay was fabulous and a lovely touching moment when they shook hands. Ahhhh... the Two Davids.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 25th, 2005, 04:07 PM
What is a LaGrange Point?


Lagrange points are locations in space where gravitational forces and the orbital motion of a body balance each other.

They were discovered by French mathematician Louis Lagrange in 1772 in his gravitational studies of the ‘Three body problem’: how a third, small body would orbit around two orbiting large ones.

There are five Lagrangian points in the Sun-Earth system and such points also exist in the Earth-Moon system.

For more info:

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/what_lagrange_points.html

TOA
January 25th, 2005, 04:08 PM
You might want to check this (http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/aliens/) out. :)

I just keep remembering the lines from the second entry (same site):
"Barring our way, however, stand our Ancient Enemies. We know this because more new humans invaded our hive to free those whom our scouts had corralled. "

The Wraith obviously view the Ancients differently than they do humans, calling humans the "pets" of the Ancients pretty much sums up their views.

alaskannut
January 25th, 2005, 04:09 PM
http://img194.exs.cx/img194/346/fgff4pv.jpg

;)
ROFLMAO!!!
'nuf said my friend! :D :D

Stargate Agent
January 25th, 2005, 04:40 PM
I wonder what would happen if someone made a show that was 100% correct on the science level?? Would deticated fans be COed from bickering and nitpicking on the subities of a show....?

AtlantisRising
January 25th, 2005, 05:53 PM
*has read every post thus far*
Ugh, headache. Note to self; dont do that again. very stupid.

I have a question. What was the symbol that kept appearing behinf Weir and Zelenka when he was showing her the simulation of how the city would be destroyed.

I wonder... If they overloaded a generator next to the gate, could that not produce enough of a blast to take out the city? I doubt it, that would be WAY to easy a plot device.

I taped the episode so I can watch it before the Finale next monday. EEE, im so excited!!!

Ohper
January 25th, 2005, 07:01 PM
I have a question. What was the symbol that kept appearing behinf Weir and Zelenka when he was showing her the simulation of how the city would be destroyed.

Do you mean the thing on the blue display?

This?:

http://img79.exs.cx/img79/8796/dsdsfdd3eb.gif

It looks like a fancy Ancient screensaver to me.

watcher652
January 26th, 2005, 01:13 AM
Random comments.

I'm surprised there aren't more comments about the special effects. They were totally awesome! The weapons platform was superb! The Puddle Jumper docking and undocking with the platform was beautifully done, so realistic! And of course an exploding hive ship is always welcome. And even the exploding weapons platform was good, although I was really distressed to see it go.

Yeah! Zelenka gets a first name! I think it's Radek, too. His voice got a little deeper when he was explaining the self destruction to Weir. That was kinda odd. Mmm, he looks good when he combs his hair and takes his glasses off.

You go Teyla! That Bates really needed a punch, even if he was doing his job and had a point.

Knowing David Hewlett is a scifi geek, I hope he had fun in that space suit. At least before it got to be a pain to move around in.

Love those "cranberry" jumpsuits.

Halling is nuts if he thinks the Wraith won't use any of Atlantis.

Having seen the TV Guide Channel special, I'm happy that it was McKay and not Hewlett letting out that yell as he fell to the floor. I think he would have been even more seriously hurt if he fell from that height with the gravity at 100%, so it must have been at least a little slow to reach 100%. Falling McKay was *not* a special effect.

Damn, I thought for sure there would be some sort of transportation device on that weapons platform. Why would the Ancients have something that would take so long to get to? Can you imagine the Ancients spending 15 hours in a Puddle Jumper? That doesn't seem to be very good military planning. If what Zelenka said is true tht it was the last of several dozen, I can't see traveling from platform to the platforms only by Jumper. Even a remote controlled weapon would need to be maintained.

Love that 3 story set used for the weapons platform interior.

Ancients use touch panel screens. OK, I'm slow, I never noticed it before.

How could anybody think Teyla beat up Bates when she didn't even have a scratch on her when Sheppard and Ford were questioning her? And why was Sheppard letting Ford do the questioning? For practice?

Heh - Miller: You're the best one to fix it, sir. McKay: Hmm, flatter the dead man. Good.

Hey, Miller called McKay Sir!

Scientists. They still carry pencils. I guess you can tell when you're coming to the end of your pencil, you can't tell when your pen may run out of ink. And if you don't have a space pen, you can't write upside down with a regular pen but you can with a pencil. Pens don't work well in no-grav, either.

Wonder what Miller's specialty is.

Love how McKay was bumping into things in no-grav. Floating McKay was very good.

Ooo, it's that alien tracking thingy from Sanctuary.

Ugh, Wraith mind meld, gah!

Oh, no, Peter! This sucks! There have been more scientists killed than military. 8 scientists and 5 military have died. Not good.

Exploding platform look really good.

The only good Wraith is a dead Wraith.

Mio
January 26th, 2005, 03:40 AM
One thing I hated about this episode.

No one suggested Pulling an entire Ancient Terminal, or at least hunting rigerously for some kind of Ancient data storage device.

Based on what Zelenka said, it's reasonable to assume that the database backed itself up to each terminal, correct? The terminals aren't that large, given how superior Atlanean storage technology must be. In fact, If it takes every hard drive we have to store 8% of the database, It's likely that the Ancients could fit their whole database on a crystal the size of a small computer, at the very most.

Purpleyin
January 26th, 2005, 05:04 AM
I was sad to see him go. I expected him to take out another hive ship by sacraficing himself but I guess he never got the chance. He is the most prominent UK character on stargate, right? I wonder how the UK fans feel about this.


As a UK fan I'm devasted! But not just becasue he's British - I realy liked the potential for him and they finally gave him development and whooph - dead, or so they'd like us to believe.
Fortunately I don't beleive, I still hope...

I posted a question about Grodin's future up to the Ask Joe thread. Maybe we'll get a reply?

Just because Grodin's last known place to be was obliterated doesn't mean he's dead.
Come on, this is scifi we're talking about.

There are as I see it so far 9 possibilities.

1. He's dead, he blew up - end of story - bit of angst
2. Someone helped him ascend - though I find that option a bit cheap and don't want to see it - rather have him dead than that be used.

The next 3 are based on what if the Wraith 'culled' the station - I admit its unlikely and I would have to look back and see if there is any evidence in the special effects in the scene to show any beaming off. But should that have happened I see three possible outcomes.
3. He's a tasty snack for them.
4. He ends up being experimented on much like the rumours for another character and appears in later seasons.
5. Considering the Wraith might know that Bob, their spy on Atlantis is dead, they might keep and interrogate Grodin. Obviously if he was kept on the hive ship and if those got destroyed in the seige then he's die there instead of where they all think he did, but if somehow he remained with the Wraith I could well see them using him to gain the advantage against humans, to learn of the technology etc once they realise the human threat is a bit more serious - all presuming that everyone on Atlantis wins the fight of course.

6. There was alifepod Grodin got to. He does know the systems well and maybe he looked it up and got to it in the nick of time - and it might have got missed in the explosion and debris. If it got hit by debris and he was unconscious then that would explain why he didn't radio to say he was still alive.

7. If the station had some odd portected thing like a lifepod - with everything but that core bit being obliterated and it just looking like a large enough part to be big bit of debris (there did seem to be some large chunks afterwards too)

8. Back to what if he found something on the schematics - maybe there's a transporter down to a base on that planet nearby. Hard to believe since they never mentioned anything Atlantean on the planet in The Defiant One, only that damaged Wraith ship.

9. Same as above, but maybe to another station like that or a different safe planet?

I know some are far fetched but I think they aren't all so. The one i'd most like to see done would be 5.

Purpleyin
January 26th, 2005, 05:14 AM
Zelenka seemed to be able to speak to Weir without too much trouble though :p

Dang, I guess thats proof against the idea of his crush on her, unless he's getting more confident. ;)
i haven't sen any Zelenka/Weir shipping but I can well imagine it.

Purpleyin
January 26th, 2005, 05:15 AM
Hey, who wants to get some Teyla/Bates shipping going. ;)

"You're a security threat!"
"You're insulting my people!"

They stare, then kiss passionately. Music swells.

-IMF

Actually I know someone who seems to ship those two, starting from Suspicion.
She wrote a fic or two I think.

There's a thread for it here on an Atlantis forum.
http://ancientscity.proboards33.com/index.cgi?board=pairings&action=display&num=1105633220

Purpleyin
January 26th, 2005, 05:19 AM
It's a shame Grodin was killed but I hope he gets replaced with an English character that isn't a posh sterotype like he was, someone more down to earth that doesn't talk liike the Americans think we do or should, how bout Simon Pegg as the new English rep?

Whereas I don't agree that it was bad to have Grodin be posh (since they shouldn't have to go for not-posh just becuase others usually go for posh british - sometimes trying too hard to be PC is just as bad IMO)
But the other comment of yours...
ROTFLOL.
My god that's an insane and yet insanely funny idea.
Would have made me choke if I'd been eating/drinking when I read that!

Purpleyin
January 26th, 2005, 05:32 AM
One thing that was nice to see was the defense platform explosion being 3D rather than the usual explode on a 2D plane as used to happen in Star Trek.
The special effects are really good, nice wraith hive ships and love the odd spiky sputnik crossed with a snowflake design of the Ancient platform, kudos to the people who work so hard on these things.

AlphaBlu
January 26th, 2005, 05:51 AM
I still hold out hope that the satilite had a built in escape pod thing that separates the main control bit from the rest of it in case of a direct attack.

BYE

aAnubiSs
January 26th, 2005, 06:14 AM
The second I saw the interior I always thought there were rings in the octagonal in the center.

Major Tyler
January 26th, 2005, 07:08 AM
8. Back to what if he found something on the schematics - maybe there's a transporter down to a base on that planet nearby. Hard to believe since they never mentioned anything Atlantean on the planet in The Defiant One, only that damaged Wraith ship. I like this one, maybe have a few episodes of him trying to survive alone with no way to communicate long distance. Or he just beamed into the rear compartment of the PJ and got knocked out...Rodney and Miller will find him on their way to the loo. :rolleyes:

Ugly Pig
January 26th, 2005, 11:42 AM
And forth from the bellybutton of the beast came


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Siege'

Okay, things are getting tense now. I really can't wait to find out what will happen... At the moment, Atlantis is defenseless and the two Wraith hive ships will be there shortly. But at least they managed to take one out - something I had definately not expected.

I had also not expected to lose the Ancient defense satelite this soon. And... I was not expecting Peter Grodin to die. I knew we'd lose someone, but I was almost positive it would be Bates. Guess I was wrong.

While watching it, my brother commented that his respect for Bates grows with each episode. I can't help but agree. I couldn't stand him in 'Suspicion', but I rather like him now. And, he's right. After what happened in 'The Gift', they should be more careful about what they let Teyla see... Not because she can't be trusted, but because it can't be determined with absolute certainty that the Wraith can't see everything she can see. (I should say, though, that I was pleasantly surprised to see Sheppard telling Teyla off for punching Bates, rather than predictably taking her side.)

Anyway - despite the building tension and the tragic loss of Peter, there were some nice funny bits in there. McKay/Zelenka banter in the beginning, "Bob" the Wraith and some brief snippets of McKay/Grodin banter later on - unfortunately, it will be the last time.

It's hard to judge this episode on its own merits, because it feels mostly like build-up to part 2. But based on what we've seen so far, I think we are in for a great season ender! And now - to wait in agony for a week. Oh, the humanity!

joanne1138
January 26th, 2005, 11:51 AM
Yay! Always love the useless opinions. :D

elvital
January 26th, 2005, 12:14 PM
I like this one, maybe have a few episodes of him trying to survive alone with no way to communicate long distance. Or he just beamed into the rear compartment of the PJ and got knocked out...Rodney and Miller will find him on their way to the loo. :rolleyes:
Funny idea :D

I agree with all of you that he might still be alive - nice idea, but I assume that would mean someone else has got to die - like Bates - and I wouldn't want that :(

TechnoBoY
January 26th, 2005, 12:30 PM
I cant wait to see this episode! GAH!

It better be good. I wonder who dies! I hope its nt who I think it is!

Ugly Pig
January 26th, 2005, 12:37 PM
Ok i"m gonna stop using the spoiler tag now as this is a spoilertastic thread. The <snip> is powered by a <snip>.
You know, you still need spoiler warnings/tags for upcoming episodes!!

Yay! Always love the useless opinions. :D
Why thank you! :D

Purpleyin
January 26th, 2005, 03:05 PM
I'm rather more hopeful Grodin is alive after rewatching the explosiion frame by frame.
there's an odd bit of debris that comes off at slighlty iffy trajectory - at first I wondered if it was a dart - though that seems foolish for wraith to do when also firing on the thing. rewatching it appears its part of the satellite - at the side that sort of detaches/undocks and moves away.

I could just be debris but it moves across screen deliberately away into your view, like its filling the corner - meant for us to see?

I thought i might be imagining it but a friend rewatched it and agrees it looks to be moving faster than the other debris and looks too shiny and pointy for a dart but like part of the the satelite.

They also pointed out they were expecting a much large explosion considering theres a naquadah generator on board the satelite - since the explosion from one in hotzone was quite big.
That might point to the bit they docked to being the same bit that might be detaching - and if so likely to have both Grodin and the generator on - explains the odd debris and the lack of big explosion.

Far fetched I know but not impossible. I really hope this might be becasue I want the character back and he was listed as being in part 2 on imdb.

Here's a rather unclear screen cap I got of it as it moves away - couldn't get any better unfortunately.
http://elnino.is-a-geek.com/hannah/119/spoiler_whatsthis.JPG

Major Tyler
January 26th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Funny idea :D I agree with all of you that he might still be alive - nice idea, but I assume that would mean someone else has got to die - like Bates - and I wouldn't want that :(I don't want to lose Bates either. I really respect Bates because he is a great chief of security. He doesn't let his emotions take over like Sheppard does. Instead of Bates dying, they could kill random scientist #7...that would be okay. :D

AtlantisRising
January 26th, 2005, 05:18 PM
Do you mean the thing on the blue display?

This?:

DONTQUOTEPICS

It looks like a fancy Ancient screensaver to me.


*Would have replied soon had he had access to a computer*

Yes, thats exactly what I meant, :) I wish that these things had a purpose. Would make it a lil more interesting. IMO.

Lt. Elliot
January 26th, 2005, 07:00 PM
So I finished watching “The Siege: Part 1” yesterday. As usual, here are my comments/opinions on the episode for Atlantis, Season 1.

Things I Liked:
1. The banter between Grodin and McKay in the weapons platform.
2. McKay falling when Grodin turned on the gravity.
3. The weapons platform tearing apart the Wraith Hiveship
4. McKay freaking out in the space suit. He’s so cute when he’s scared.
5. The whole T-Rex thing. Damn that Sgt. Bates and his jumping to conclusions.
6. Bob!! First Steve, now Bob! I love those Wraith we name!
7. The little brouhaha between Teyla and Bates.
8. Weir’s speech right at the end. I got a little teary-eyed.

Thing’s I Didn’t Like:
1. Zelenka’s simulation of Atlantis’ destruction. Scary!!
2. GRODIN!!! Nooooo!!!! Our one British guy we’ve been introduced to, gone!
3. Halling’s stupid speech about Atlantis and not destroying it. If it means saving Earth, blow it to hell! They aren’t coming back!
4. Bates accusing Teyla of compromising their location. I know she would never do such a thing! But still, poor Bates.
5. Not ONE mention of Earth. I mean, at least someone should mention it. Maybe Ford??

Good Quotes/Moments:
1. “Keep an eye on my city while I’m gone.” What! McKay’s city!
2. The whole Zelenka/McKay banter at the beginning about who is smarter! Cute!
3. The whole 8-hour thing in the space suit. He was so nervous it was cute.
4. Grodin’s last words. “I’m sorry.”
5. All of Weir’s speech.
“May I have your attention please? This is Dr. Weir. Our plan to stop the Wraith armada has failed. They will make it to Atlantis. Therefore, we must being our evacuation plans. I wish I could tell you all this is a fight we will win, but I can’t do that. I wish I could tell you we will find a safe harbor when we leave here. I can’t promise you that either. I can tell you this: Up to know, you all have accomplished extraordinary things. And I believe that even in the face of an uncertain future, as long as we stay together, we have a chance to do so. Now we all have our evacuation duties, so thank you. And I’ll see you on the other side.”

Overall, an 8/10. I expected some action, not just talking and seeing an Ancient’s weapon platform destroy a Hiveship. Not too exciting, but some good moments and the whole feel of the episode was good. Kinda sad to know the first season of Stargate: Atlantis ends in one week!

*Sorry about the switch-around with my posts Mods!

Mr. Seven
January 26th, 2005, 07:53 PM
I really liked this episode. Grodin's death was well done I thought. Still we didn't see him that much after the two episodes, so I had a feeling he would be outted in some way.

Bob didn't have a long shelf life as far as Wraith's go. Even Steve lasted longer than him.

I think Part 2 is going to be action packed. I can't wait, even though it will most likely be a cliffhanger like all other SG Season finales.

Buzz Lightyear
January 26th, 2005, 08:08 PM
I'm not sure if this has already been discussed...

...but if that Wraith pilot was hiding in Atlantis for two weeks, what did it do for food? If he had fed on a human, wouldn't someone have raised the alarm when that person went missing? Unless the feeding only took place very close to the time Bates ran into him (hence Bates not being drained of his life force). Or maybe Wraith only need to feed once every few weeks?

And why the heck did it take the Atlantis crew so long to get internal sensors going that could differentiate between human and non-human life signs, not to mention differentiating between various types of humans? It's not like there haven't already been incidents of hostile intrusions in Atlantis.

Blend
January 26th, 2005, 08:22 PM
Ive gotten the impression the wraith dont need to feed very often at all really. Definitly not daily, nor weekly..

and the reason the sensors were down was explained in the ep. They said that to save power they only turned them on in the gate room (because it was the location where they suspected theyd need to detect people)

Buzz Lightyear
January 27th, 2005, 05:07 AM
Ive gotten the impression the wraith dont need to feed very often at all really. Definitly not daily, nor weekly..

It does seem that way.


and the reason the sensors were down was explained in the ep. They said that to save power they only turned them on in the gate room (because it was the location where they suspected theyd need to detect people)

But they weren't even doing periodic sensor sweeps, even after encountering unknown entities ("Hide & Seek"), being invaded ("The Storm"), having the city perimeter breached ("The Brotherhood"), or having Teyla's wraith-sensing abilities conveniently causing nightmares ("The Gift").

I guess it all serves the story as written, but as a fan of Sgt Bates being a cautious security chief, I'm a bit disappointed Atlantis security wasn't better addressed before Bates got ambushed.

jagowar
January 27th, 2005, 05:46 AM
Whew... it's getting hot in here... :p

Just when you think that it is not possible for Atlantis to feel more desperate, voila... the TPTB pull out another trick! Wow... they've really upped the tension yet again... what a fabulous first season this has been. I don't think I've felt this much urgency since season 3 of B5...

"In war there are casualties..." The TPTB are certainly taking this as their motto for Season One... what is the body count now?... Poor Grodin... at least he gave his life for others... noble to the last... will miss his James Masonish voice...

Ha... the "Bob" wraith finally emerges... Shep's got such great chemistry with the Wraith, hasn't he?

The running naming joke resurfaces :D ... I'm with Ford... labelling planets with numbers and alphabets is very unromantic... Now I remember why I like Ford... :D He's got this boyish eagerness that I find endearing.

Weir gets to do a Winston Churchill! Yeah, the Battle for Atlantis! That woman is going from strength to strength.

Lots of Zelenka... nice... I heard "Bradek" also... :D Banter with McKay was fabulous and a lovely touching moment when they shook hands. Ahhhh... the Two Davids.

I agree, last time I was wanting to see the next episode now was Star Trek: Deep Space 9 when the dominion was was going on and those convienent season ending episodes always left you wanting to know how things were going to turn out.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 27th, 2005, 06:31 AM
But they weren't even doing periodic sensor sweeps,


I got the impression that the part of the (Manhattan sized) city where the scout beamed down was empty of Atlantis personel. They didn't use the great big aliens-among-us sensors because of energy issues, and, lets face it, there is a lot to do for so few people in such a large place, what with the Genii attacking them, clean-up after that horrendous storm, disease breaking out, etc, etc.

I figured that "Bob" brought... erm... "supplies" with him, which would explain the white dots surrounding his orange dot on the sensor screen.




as a fan of Sgt Bates being a cautious security chief, I'm a bit disappointed Atlantis security wasn't better addressed before Bates got ambushed.


<nods> Maybe now the guy will get the respect and co-operation he deserves.

How do you folks imagine how that encounter went, between Bob and Bates? Bates must have surprised the scout for him not to have been stunned. I hope Bates had the chance to give as good as he got. Of course, Bob heals quickly(at least he used to <eg>), so I guess we'll never know.

Major Tyler
January 27th, 2005, 06:50 AM
5. Not ONE mention of Earth. I mean, at least someone should mention it. Maybe Ford?Uhh, Earth was mentioned quite a bit...

Purpleyin
January 27th, 2005, 07:40 AM
I
I figured that "Bob" brought... erm... "supplies" with him, which would explain the white dots surrounding his orange dot on the sensor screen.


I never thought that but it does bring up the point of how many people can darts store - 2 darts got away in Rising with 6? people.

Anyway I just thought the white dots of people were explained by the sensors detecting it from birds eye view and others were on different levels. though i guess that makes very little sense.

But anyway rewatching it the closeup frame makes it look like the wraith is very close to other people on sensros but in a small room on the map outline.

noxturnal
January 27th, 2005, 08:59 AM
I loved this ep but I still have to say that I’m caught up on the Bob/Bates fight. From what was shown of Bob during the interrogation it doesn’t seem that he'd be likely to leave Bates alive. Surely he'd have killed Bates if only to be sure he couldn't tell anyone what happened.
Furthermore Bates is found at 'generator station 1' thus I’m assuming this would be checked regularly, so wouldn't Bob have tried to hide the body somewhere?
Given that Bob had been around undetected for 2 weeks he would probably know at least roughly the areas of Atlantis that are inhabited/frequented and be able to dispose of Bates effectively.

(I admit I’m smiling at the thought of Bates being disposed of).

Teal'c
January 27th, 2005, 09:26 AM
Killing Bates might have made them suspect his presence earlier. If he fed on Bates, they would have known immediately. Perhaps Bob was an optimist and figured if he left Bates alive he'd have the chance to feed off him later on :P

Purpleyin
January 27th, 2005, 10:32 AM
On the topic of bob and Bates. Reading the official annal of the keepers they don't really see humans as very logicla or much threat, so Bob was probably presuming they would never find out he beat up Bates (not thinking humans would have DNa testing) and so left Bates unable to report him (presuming Bates came across Bob trying to sabotage generator 1) and yet looking like it was a person who did it.

Point is feeding would alert them to a definite Wraith presence.
Whilst the DNA testing proved that too, Bob likely beleived humans too weak a race to possess such knowledge since they've been dealing with humans who are far behind technologically.

Buzz Lightyear
January 27th, 2005, 10:40 AM
I loved this ep but I still have to say that I’m caught up on the Bob/Bates fight. From what was shown of Bob during the interrogation it doesn’t seem that he'd be likely to leave Bates alive. Surely he'd have killed Bates if only to be sure he couldn't tell anyone what happened.
Furthermore Bates is found at 'generator station 1' thus I’m assuming this would be checked regularly, so wouldn't Bob have tried to hide the body somewhere?
Given that Bob had been around undetected for 2 weeks he would probably know at least roughly the areas of Atlantis that are inhabited/frequented and be able to dispose of Bates effectively.

(I admit I’m smiling at the thought of Bates being disposed of).

I'm thinking that Bates put up quite a fight and injured Bob sufficiently for the wraith to have to retreat temporarily. Meanwhile, Bates is able to stumble away and escape, till he succumbs to his injuries and collapses where he is eventually found.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 27th, 2005, 02:50 PM
I'm thinking that Bates put up quite a fight and injured Bob sufficiently for the wraith to have to retreat temporarily. Meanwhile, Bates is able to stumble away and escape, till he succumbs to his injuries and collapses where he is eventually found.

Yeah, I like this scenario! The Wraith may not have been anywhere near that generator station. Bates may have dragged himself there in the hopes he would be found. I would be nice if we get a flashbackie to the fight when Bates wakes up, though that's probably too much to hope for.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you; the writers have been doing just fine, IMO. :)

Mio
January 27th, 2005, 03:52 PM
Didn't ANYONE else find the whole 'we can't take the database with us' thing stupid?

Purpleyin
January 27th, 2005, 04:35 PM
Didn't ANYONE else find the whole 'we can't take the database with us' thing stupid?

Firstly it wasn't they can't take the database, it was they can't take *all* the database - only 9% as Zelenka last promised.

And I thought it was good to have that. Makes sense the ancients collected more data than human harddrives (that they as an expedition have access to) could store.

It's also a nice setup for problems in later seasons - places where the episodes would be uninteresting if they could just look it up and that would be the end of it.

I reckon it's good since it adds extra problems that they'll later have to overcome and ultimately thats what drives stories.

It would be unrealistic for the Wraith battle not to cause unexected problems like that.
But thats just my thought on the matter.

Buzz Lightyear
January 27th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Didn't ANYONE else find the whole 'we can't take the database with us' thing stupid?

What was stupid about it? The entire Ancient database is so huge that they can only take at most 9% of the translated portion using their current available data storage capabilities.

Presumably, the original copy of the database is not in an easily transportable format, like a few Ancient equivalents of data crystals or flash memory drives.

Mio
January 28th, 2005, 02:42 AM
What was stupid about it? The entire Ancient database is so huge that they can only take at most 9% of the translated portion using their current available data storage capabilities.

Presumably, the original copy of the database is not in an easily transportable format, like a few Ancient equivalents of data crystals or flash memory drives.

But they said that the database backed itself up to places all over the city. I didn't understand why they couldn't pull a terminal and bring it with them.


Even if the original copy of the database isn't in an easily transportable format, the Ancients had portable storage devices far more efficient than our hard drives.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 28th, 2005, 03:41 AM
But they said that the database backed itself up to places all over the city. I didn't understand why they couldn't pull a terminal and bring it with them.


Even if the original copy of the database isn't in an easily transportable format, the Ancients had portable storage devices far more efficient than our hard drives.

Computer illiterate person chiming in, here;

Is it possible that Zelenka and co don't yet recognize the terminals? Considering that these are alien computers, they might still be at a stage resembling my lack of understanding about PEE CEEs: I can use the d*mmed things but I couldn't tell the hard drive from the motor, or which memory chip is which :S . Zelenka might pull out a whole console thinking that it holds all the data but can't be activated without some other piece he hasn't found out about yet. It would be like trying to build a jetplane based solely on the dashboard.

I liked how, even as late as The Brotherhood, they were still discovering programs in the Ancient computers.

Purpleyin
January 28th, 2005, 04:11 AM
Computer illiterate person chiming in, here;

Is it possible that Zelenka and co don't yet recognize the terminals? Considering that these are alien computers, they might still be at a stage resembling my lack of understanding about PEE CEEs: I can use the d*mmed things but I couldn't tell the hard drive from the motor, or which memory chip is which :S . Zelenka might pull out a whole console thinking that it holds all the data but can't be activated without some other piece he hasn't found out about yet. It would be like trying to build a jetplane based solely on the dashboard.

I liked how, even as late as The Brotherhood, they were still discovering programs in the Ancient computers.

Motor???
Definitely trusting you there when you say you are computer illerate :D

But anyway, yes its interesting to have the Ancient systems be so beyond them they don't know what's what and what exists.

Besides that the computer systems there if they don't understand them and the fact they seem to be crystal and light based (possibly? i'm going on those weird console panels they take out etc) means it would never likely be as simple as pulling a harddrive or anything - and not just because they wouldn't know what it looks like.
I agree it's a nice touch to the show.

Buzz Lightyear
January 28th, 2005, 09:04 AM
Even if the original copy of the database isn't in an easily transportable format, the Ancients had portable storage devices far more efficient than our hard drives.

That's an easy assumption to make, but in what episode were portable Ancient storage devices discovered? For all one knows, if you try to pry an Ancient terminal loose from its connections, it might activate some failsafe autodelete mechanism.

Teal'c
January 28th, 2005, 03:23 PM
Or the terminals could weigh a ton, making them impossible to get up to the gate room.

TechnoBoY
January 28th, 2005, 03:36 PM
OMG! They killed him! I thought it was whats his face, but it wasnt! OMG! ahh ahh!

Good ep though. I cant wait until part 2!

Mr. Seven
January 29th, 2005, 12:57 PM
If they delete the Ancient Database (even if they recover 9%) I will be thoroughly pissed!

Stupid Weir and Zalenka...

Buzz Lightyear
January 29th, 2005, 02:37 PM
If they delete the Ancient Database (even if they recover 9%) I will be thoroughly pissed!

Stupid Weir and Zalenka...

Yeah, that would be a stupid plot device to make it more difficult to discover new Ancient technology. It's not necessary at all since [spoiler]Thor has stated even the Asgard have barely scratched the surface in studying part of the Ancient database themselves.

CrackedButter
January 30th, 2005, 05:10 AM
Somebody mentioned the distances involved in the wraith getting to the milky way. One assumes they know which galaxy earth is in anyway and the distance it is from Pegasas via warp speed.

The wraith know *of* earth and that is it. Nothing about the Galaxy. Hell for all they know it could be in their Galaxy and they missed a spot.

Also the length of the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. The distances you need to travel between Galaxies is even greater and to think the wriath could hibinate for that long? Its quicker to get to the Stargate with all things concerned.

aAnubiSs
January 30th, 2005, 05:44 AM
WARP?! WARP?!! I know we have the Borg and now the Species 8472 but we ain't got any warp here!

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 30th, 2005, 06:10 AM
WARP?! WARP?!! I know we have the Borg and now the Species 8472 but we ain't got any warp here!

ahem... yes... no warped minds allowed in this fandom. :p

FYI, CrackedButter, we Gaters do not use warp technology, we use the more civilized hyperspace tech. :)

CrackedButter
January 30th, 2005, 11:31 AM
Whatever, you knew what I meant, plus its quicker to type. I'll stick to using warp. ;)

Major Tyler
January 30th, 2005, 12:23 PM
Whatever, you knew what I meant, plus its quicker to type. I'll stick to using warp. ;)If you try to go against the tide, you're going to be getting people commenting about it every time you say it. Or people will just ignore you because they'll think you don't know what you're talking about.

CrackedButter
January 30th, 2005, 02:23 PM
Oh please.

I have more important things in life to worry about rather than be worried about whether I used the words "warpspeed", "hyperdrive", FTLdrive or "lightspeed" in the right context for each and every different sci fi show. I'm not a geek.

If "the tide" are going to debate over such a thing then I truly wonder what else you guys can waste your time on when it comes to debating a fictional TV series in such depth and with such energy. I grew out of that attitude when I was 16. Infact the attitude I'm receiving smacks of elitisim. Sad. Again, over a TV show.

You picked out the word "warp" rather than discuss the merits of my post. Yet "warp" means exactly the same thing!

Don't bother ignoring my future posts either, I'll just not post anymore. Like I said I do have better things to do, the moments I spend away from my work can be put elsewhere. No big loss you say? Same can be said on this side of the screen as well. Bye.

AtlantisRising
January 30th, 2005, 05:39 PM
CB,
Its not really about the term, in my opinion. Its about respect for the series and the differences it has from other scifi out there. In essence its the same as a person calling you by a pet name you dont like instead of your given name.

It is childish to ignore somone for that reason, but still. effort must be made on both sides.

Your last paragraph is loaded with childish attitudes. please. drop it. When I read it, this is what I see, "I dont like you anymore *sticks out tongue* so Im not gonna talk to you anymore"
Seriously, its *just* a forum. Is it worth it to abadnon it just because someone made that one remark? No.

Back onto the discussion at hand...

The Wraith have hybernated for 10 000 years. With small hyper jumps it *could* and I stress that /Could/ Make it with hybernation. If they alternated who drove the ship I think its a good possibility. Besides, if everyone else isnt awake, you dont have to listen to "are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet" :D ;)

I also had the idea of "why not rip out a few control consoles and take em' with you through the gate? "
I mean, if *that* were possible, at least they might someday be able to gain access to quite a bit of information. heck, even if they only saved 50% of the database, that would still be a hella lot.

Thats all
~AR

Buzz Lightyear
January 30th, 2005, 08:02 PM
You picked out the word "warp" rather than discuss the merits of my post. Yet "warp" means exactly the same thing!

Ok, here's a comment on your post. The distance of the Pegasus galaxy from the Milky Way galaxy via "warp speed" is the same distance as via slower-than-lightspeed. ;)

Your point about not assuming that the Wraith know the exact location of Earth is a good one, btw.


Don't bother ignoring my future posts either, I'll just not post anymore. Like I said I do have better things to do, the moments I spend away from my work can be put elsewhere. No big loss you say? Same can be said on this side of the screen as well. Bye.

Wow! You sure back down easily from one mildly critical post. Do you participate on any forums where you've posted more than 5-10 messages? :rolleyes:

CrackedButter
January 30th, 2005, 11:49 PM
Okay.

You both make a good point. I'll concede again. Even though I AM acting totally out of character. Normally I'll debate something to death. :) But.

Last night I was in a certain frame of mind because of a bus journey I took. I nearly considered attacking to guys because they were bullying a disabled guy and ignored 2 verbal warnings from me. That kinda thing is disgusting, I also saw human ignorance from the tormentors and from the other passengers who were pretending to ignore the situation when nobody would help tho poor guy, plus he had a speech impediment. That kind of thing can frighten people as it is, plus add a confused look looking for help, he doesn't make an appealing victim.

So if you can understand then thats cool, because coming here and seeing my post being nitpicked was tiny compared to what I was going to do last night on the bus to these 2 guys. Out of respect, I won't say warp either okay.

Anyway... thread at hand.

Buzz Lightyear
January 31st, 2005, 12:10 AM
Last night I was in a certain frame of mind because of a bus journey I took. I nearly considered attacking to guys because they were bullying a disabled guy and ignored 2 verbal warnings from me. That kinda thing is disgusting, I also saw human ignorance from the tormentors and from the other passengers who were pretending to ignore the situation when nobody would help tho poor guy, plus he had a speech impediment. That kind of thing can frighten people as it is, plus add a confused look looking for help, he doesn't make an appealing victim.

So if you can understand then thats cool, because coming here and seeing my post being nitpicked was tiny compared to what I was going to do last night on the bus to these 2 guys. Out of respect, I won't say warp either okay.

Anyway... thread at hand.

Hey, say warp all you want (glances furtively around as he stirs up more controversy... ), I don't mind. ;)

And yeah, ignorant bystanders can be just as culpable as the bullies.

gate01
March 1st, 2005, 10:41 AM
thanks cant wait till i see it in 30 mins in on sky one in the uk and the uk dude dies o well not the biggest lots

.:Lemon:.
March 1st, 2005, 01:10 PM
Grodin!! Noooo!! I was just starting to like him damnit!!

Good episode. I liked 'Bob' ;) . shep's now called two of the wraith 'steve' and 'bob'. Weren't they the two names that Sheppard was going to be called before TPTB settled on John? Can't wait for Part 2 next week, it should be good :D

Funkmeister
March 1st, 2005, 01:17 PM
just seen this on sky one, and it was a fantastic episode. It's the edge of your seat kind of thing. I loved it when grodin turned on the gravity, and mckay fell a great distance. It's a shame that grodin is dead though. I really liked him.

Now i have to suffer the torment of waiting a week to find out what happens.

StarGate-SAS1
March 1st, 2005, 01:46 PM
just seen this on sky one, and it was a fantastic episode. It's the edge of your seat kind of thing. I loved it when grodin turned on the gravity, and mckay fell a great distance. It's a shame that grodin is dead though. I really liked him.

Now i have to suffer the torment of waiting a week to find out what happens.


i was also sorry to see grodin go ... he will be missed ... was he british? as he seemed to be able to speak proper english ...

poor old Bob ... shame he didn't last as long as Steve ...

Can't wait for next ep ... will be good!

.:Lemon:.
March 1st, 2005, 01:50 PM
i was also sorry to see grodin go ... he will be missed ... was he british? as he seemed to be able to speak proper english ...

Yeah Grodin was a Brit

mancslad08
March 1st, 2005, 01:55 PM
just seen this on sky one, and it was a fantastic episode. It's the edge of your seat kind of thing.


I definately wouldn't call it 'edge of your seat'. It was ok, to be honest I thought it was a bit slow for a season finale; though I'm sure next week will be faster (then again that's what I thought with Moebius and look at what a horrible episode that was)

Crazedwraith
March 1st, 2005, 01:57 PM
Very very good episode...Poor Grodin :( He shall be missed and those last words: "I'm sorry" very good very dignified. RIP Gordin (though very small ones from the looks of it :( )

Teyla's attmept to telepath a Concious wraith and tell him you're doing at the time was incredible stupid and obviously doomed to failiure.

Very good though. 'Bob' was nearly so good in the armour as 'Steve' was in the a coat...

Bring on PtII.

Matt G
March 1st, 2005, 02:56 PM
1. Decent ep that felt more like a set up than a finale.

2. Scratch 1 Brit! :(

3. I was dead cert Deadeleus was going to turn up in this ep but it was not to be. Dealing with Bob and the space platform still worked nicely though!

Let's get ready to rumble with part 2!

WormholeAlien
March 1st, 2005, 03:41 PM
Woohoo! great Ep!

Me wants to see T-Rex vs. Wraith.

Can they drain the life out of a T-Rex? or will the T-Rex fill its stomach with wraith? :)

Poor Bob! hope he's still alive. um... and Peter too. ;)

To all the folks arguing over wraith tech level vs. ancient tech level and saying that 1 PJ = x amounts of darts and there being hundreds of darts vs. a handful of PJs....

What about the glow squids? the outposts seem to be chokoblock full of those things. Atlantis should have had enough of those to rip through the wraith ships like anything. But then again, we saw in the first PJ vs. Wraith encounter Major sheppard fired 3 glowsquids simultaneously at the dart to destroy it in one hit.


But.... Super cool slicer beam on that ancient weapons platform. Very much like the Shadows' slicer beam in B5. :D

Sheppard's autotrust of Teyla is getting a bit annoying. Even though bates takes a lot of satisfaction on badmouthing Teyla, his suspicions are sound given the situation. She got taken over by a wraith in her last wraith comms attempt, she should be kept out of some things.

As for Teyla trying to go Vulcan with Bob, she forgot to say "My mind to your mind, My thoughts to your thoughts..." ;) Thats why Bob got the upper hand.

Me wants to see Part 2!

Anubis
March 1st, 2005, 11:06 PM
Brilliant episode. ;)


This felt like more of a set-up to the finale, than Moebius I did. Much more. Great humour from McKay and Grodin at the weapon platform, great stuff. :) It's a shame that he got blown up, though. Perhaps he may have survived .. as it wasn't completely destroyed, just into small chunks. Good special effects for the ships and explosion, though.

Bates was GREAT in this episode, I was never fond of him up to this point, but I really enjoyed it. ;) And then the little fight between him and Teyla, if only Sheppard for Ford hadn't arrived earlier. :P As for Sheppard always trusting Teyla, ok, I know she's a team-member .. but a bit too much, perhaps? Don't get me wrong, she's a great character, but being trusted so much may be a little over-the-top. ;) Perhaps some ship development between the two?

Have to say, Bob was great, what a name. :P All those bullets in him, over, and over. I'm guessing he's dead, since he's not much use anymore.


BUT .. I'm REALLY looking forward to part two next week. ;)

Metarock Sam
March 2nd, 2005, 10:09 AM
Oh my God they killed Grodin. Not only a good character but English one thats wrong :( . However I liked this episode. It rocked and Mckay was happy when Zalenka said He was more important.
What a name for a Wraith Bob. I liked Bob even though he died he had a neat Tatoo thing on his head.
Can't wait for next week and then I will have to be sad and not watch much TV for another six months waaaa

smallgirl
March 2nd, 2005, 12:03 PM
I agree with Anubis this was a great set up for a finale episode.
Unlike all the 2 part SG-1 ones that we have had I have high hopes for part 2 of Siege. With the SG-1 two parters I enjoyed the first part and then felt let down by the second. Siege part 1 was at a slower pace so you felt you were really building towards an explosive finale rather than having a fast paced part 1 that then turns into an anti-climax with part 2.

An awful lot happened in Siege part 1 but it didn't feel rushed.

I loved McKay and Zelenka's interaction at the beginning with Zelenka trying to get McKay to let him go instead by pandering to his ego about being indispensable to Atlantis. The parting between them with McKay asking Zelenka to look after Atlantis and Zelenka wishing McKay luck was lovely. I always enjoy the banter between Zelenka and McKay because they annoy each other ( especially McKay annoying Zelenka) but clearly are good friends and think a lot of each other. McKay was also great with Grodin. I am so gutted about Grodin's death. I am glad they gave us some real quality Grodin time first and had him die heroically but it just makes me miss him even more.

Weir was good in this episode as well. It was good to see her working with Zelenka to try and salvage some Ancient info from Atlantis. It all looks pretty hopeless but Weir is behaving as a leader should by trying to think of as many options to try and achieve success as possible and trying to be positive for those under her command. Her conversation with Halling about destroying Atlantis so it didn't fall into the hands of the Wraith was interesting. For a diplomat, she can be quite undiplomatic when it comes to the Athosians. I think there was more that she could have said to try and make him see things from her perspective. However like in 38 minutes when she shut him down in regard to Teyla facing death on the trapped PJ, she is on a limited timescale with big life/death decisions to make and she clearly hasn't got the time to debate Athosian beliefs with him. One of the things I really enjoy about SGA is how often situations arise where I can see both sides to the argument. I like that SGA doesn't resolve these things straight away. They leave it up to the audience to then debate at leisure what should have been said or what should have happened in any given situation.

This was also the case with the Teyla/Bates situation. I understand why Teyla would hate not being trusted and feel personally insulted that she was accused of unwittingly giving information to the Wraith. However Bates was correct to be concerned and it is his job at the end of the day to be the pain in the ass who puts security ahead of people's feelings. Sheppard and Ford both acknowledged that as Teyla isn't in control of what happens and because they all still don't know exactly how the link works it's possible that the Wraith could access her mind without her knowing. I wasn't keen on the way Bates approached Sheppard about his concerns and his attitude towards him. Bates acted unprofessionally in regard to how you speak to a superior officer but Sheppard is partly at fault because he has been unprofessional in the past in dealing with Bates as his subordinate. Bates and Sheppard seem destined to continually butt heads where Teyla is concerned ( if Bates is okay that is). I don't see Sheppard's defence of Teyla as an indication of any possible 'romantic' feelings towards her. I see it as that he has decided to trust her and have her as part of his team and he doesn't like his authority questioned in this matter. I also thought Bates was out of line with how he handled Teyla striking him. She shouldn't have hit him but the fact that Ford had to hold him back from retaliating and then he started wagging his finger at her and making threats was not appropriate for a chief of security. All this however, like the Weir/Halling discussion, is a indication of how the impending doom at the hands of the Wraith is making everyone at Atlantis very on the edge. They are showing signs of normal human emotional frailty whilst still getting the job done.

That leaves me with Sheppard and 'Bob'. Poor Bob didn't last long but he was enjoyable whilst he lasted. I think letting Teyla try to access his mind was very dangerous. Under monitored conditions in the infirmary with the Wraith light years away she couldn't control things and yet they let her try it face to face with a Wraith? The result only showed how right Bates was earlier to be concerned about things. It then ended with Sheppard shooting 'Bob' in cold blood, whilst he was a prisoner of war with Ford telling him that he had gone too far. I don't think anyone is more on the edge in Atlantis than Sheppard himself. I can still see this situation from both sides like all the others but morally speaking Sheppard shouldn't have killed a P.O.W.

SG-1 has dealt with military moral dilemas often enough but I always found their approach more clear cut. SGA feels darker.

Funkmeister
March 2nd, 2005, 05:16 PM
I dunno if the wraith would even count as POW's. They aren't human, and they're pure evil. Shooting him was probably a good idea. As Sheppard said in an earlier episode (poisoning the well, I think) "if the wraith had been at the Geneva Convention, they would have eaten everyone."

Major Tyler
March 2nd, 2005, 05:29 PM
I dunno if the wraith would even count as POW's. They aren't human, and they're pure evil. Shooting him was probably a good idea. As Sheppard said in an earlier episode (poisoning the well, I think) "if the wraith had been at the Geneva Convention, they would have eaten everyone."You know, I don't buy that the Wraith are pure evil...they're just hungry. How friendly would you be to your hamburger. :p

Major Clanger
March 3rd, 2005, 10:47 AM
We had the discussion about attitudes to other species in Pretence (was it?) way back when in Stargate, when lord Zippy made the comment that we aren'T actually humane to pigs (I think it was pigs)

The Wraith treat humans as badly as we treat cod. In fact, i reckon that if Atlantis were to be broadcast in the North Sea the cod would all be rooting for Steve, Bob and their buddies.

Anyhooooo on to the ep.

Liked this one a lot. And not for purely shallow reasons either.

Let me get The Big Bates Thing (big for me, anyway) out of the way. Bates, for me, is one of the very few military characters in any tv show (sci-fi or otherwise) who actually behaves like a really professional member of the military. I get so mad when I see people criticising him and ripping him apart (on boards) because he "disagreed with Shep". Sure, Major Shep is about as edible as it gets if you're not the Deppster, but even so: he is a human character and he has flaws.

I love Shep's flaws. I adore that he has flaws. But I wish Bates would be given more credit than he gets. He is, IMO, 100% totally and completely and utterly right about Teyla. Something, I have to say, that I have been bugging Mr. MC about since her silly necklace was broadcasting to the Wraith, and have been positively fizzing with since her little mindmeld thingy.

I don't care about her character at all, btw, the writers haven't done a good job in making me care one jot about her. She is an annoying girly, who isn't even enough of a good leader to her people to stay with them, or delegate someone to lead in her place.

But I digress, because I can live with the 2d Teyla that we have.

Fantastico that Shep nearly ate the face off her after the Bates thing, and sent her to her room.

How fab was Dr.Z? (oh, and he did not say that Rodders was cleverer - more clever? - than him) I think he could get to be one of the truly fantastic characters in any show, but certainly in this one. I hope his character expands more and more (I have some candidates for who could get less and less...) I loved the way he and Rodders were sniping at each other, like an old married couple who are worried about each other.

On to some more stuff about the ep. Nice one that the Wraith could hide for 2 weeks. I still don't think we are getting anything like near enough of the scale of the city though. could someone hide in Manhattan for 2 weeks? you bet they could. (How many are on Atlantis anyway? from Earth I mean)

Not going to comment on Weir at all, I wouldn't mind if she vanished one day.

Sad that they killed a character though, but yipppppeeeeee that we (hopefully, since nobody in Sci-fi is ever truly dead unless you see the body, and even then not always) do not have to put up with that silly approximation of an English accent. Get some Yorkshirpersons on there for goodness sakes.

And the shots of the jumper docking onto the satellite were fab. I deffo want one of those.

Right, I'm rambling and ranting so I'll push off.

And I know I sound pretty negative, but I really would give this four and a half out of five.

ShadowMaat
March 3rd, 2005, 11:17 AM
I didn't like Bates when we saw him in Suspicion, but I've liked him ever since. However, I found his behavior in Siege 1 a little aggravating. I agree 100% about his complaints, but I think he was a little outrageous in his behavior... and when you look back, the guys who wrote suspicion also helped on Siege 1. *sigh* I can see how people wouldn't like him, it's BECAUSE of the (IMO) extremity of his reactions in eps like Suspicion and Siege 1, but the rest of the time, he's a great, solid character who manages to communicate his suspicions without seeming overly rabid. I hope we'll see more of him in S2. Alive and well. :)

I could care less about Teyla. I find her tedious and vastly uninteresting. Every time she opens her mouth, I'm annoyed. But she's the Sexy Female Alien of the show, so she isn't going anywhere. *sigh*

As fo Zelenka, he's awesome. :D And just because I'm a glory hog, I'll mention here, too, that I've put a Zelenka-centric plot bunny up for adoption, if anyone wants to go take a look. :)

smallgirl
March 3rd, 2005, 11:24 AM
Let me get The Big Bates Thing (big for me, anyway) out of the way. Bates, for me, is one of the very few military characters in any tv show (sci-fi or otherwise) who actually behaves like a really professional member of the military. I get so mad when I see people criticising him and ripping him apart (on boards) because he "disagreed with Shep". Sure, Major Shep is about as edible as it gets if you're not the Deppster, but even so: he is a human character and he has flaws.

Major Clanger I totally agree that it is wrong to take offence at Bates for disagreeing with Sheppard and upsetting Teyla when the guy is just doing is job. I do hope Bates recovers from his injuries because Atlantis needs him. They need a security chief who is prepared to express legitimate concerns about safety even if it means upsetting people and questioning a senior officer's judgement. However my objection to Bates in this ep and in the past is not what he says and whether it is right for him to express his opinion, because clearly that's what his position requires but it's more the way on occasion he has chosen to go about it. As previously mentioned, I think it's partly Sheppard's fault. Sheppard is too quick to shut Bates down when he doesn't agree with him and that makes Bates frustrated. Bates sometimes doesn't show the right respect to Sheppard because Sheppard doesn't show the right respect to Bates. In HZ, Bates disobeyed Weir in order to obey an order from Sheppard because Sheppard is his military CO and because I believe Bates thought Sheppard was correct in his decision regarding base security. Sheppard doesn't seem to have taken that into account in his handling of Bates since. It should have shown Sheppard that Bates while not always having the most appealing manner does have his head screwed on and is conscientiously doing his utmost to fulfill his duty to protect Atlantis and it's staff. I liked in HZ that Bates apologised to Weir after disobeying her, there was not real necessity to do that, he genuinely felt bad about undermining her authority. His doing that showed to me that he respects her, despite not always agreeing with her decisions and maybe possibly not being fully confident in her because she is a civilian. I believe this is because Weir respects him and recognises the job he has to do. Like with what you said about Sheppard having flaws, Bates does too and I like both characters because it makes them believable.

I didn't mention before, but thinking about Bates and having seen Siege 1 again today, I was really impressed with Ford. Ford was showing quite a lot of maturity and sense in this episode. He didn't have the answers but he was asking the right questions and being thoughtful and controlled in his approach to situations. He expressed his concerns about Teyla to Sheppard and Weir and Teyla herself whilst trying really hard to be respectful to all. I liked that Weir asked his opinion because she could see his discomfort and knew he wasn't 100% in agreement with Sheppard but didn't want to contradict him in front of her. Even when Ford wasn't saying anything in this episode you could see him really thinking whilst everything was going on around him and taking it in and evaluating the situations.

joanne1138
March 3rd, 2005, 11:30 AM
You know, I'm in the UK and I actually know people who talk like Grodin. I have a friend with practically the same accent and apparantly most of the people in her village talk like that too. It's actually kind of freaky.

And the bunny, the wonderful bunny! Go see the bunny. Sorry, I reeeaaally want someone to write it. :D

And I like Bates too. Especially in Letter from Pegasus. Not so much in Suspicion and this eppy.

The Last Ancient
March 3rd, 2005, 12:08 PM
When Grodin died (apparently, maybe he ascended, hope so, because i'm english too and i hate to see english characters die more than others. kinda a weird patriotiscm or something, i dunno. My mind's screwed up a lot lately) I was like: "Nooo! You can't kill off the only english character!(Well, the only one i've ever seen on the show)

Major Clanger
March 3rd, 2005, 12:17 PM
I didn't mention before, but thinking about Bates and having seen Siege 1 again today, I was really impressed with Ford. Ford was showing quite a lot of maturity and sense in this episode. He didn't have the answers but he was asking the right questions and being thoughtful and controlled in his approach to situations. He expressed his concerns about Teyla to Sheppard and Weir and Teyla herself whilst trying really hard to be respectful to all. I liked that Weir asked his opinion because she could see his discomfort and knew he wasn't 100% in agreement with Sheppard but didn't want to contradict him in front of her. Even when Ford wasn't saying anything in this episode you could see him really thinking whilst everything was going on around him and taking it in and evaluating the situations.

Ford, in this, was about as good as he's been (which isn't saying much, the poor guy hasn't had much to work with). I loved that he didn't automatically side with Shep - he clearly knows his place as a marine Lt (Bates is a marine too, right?) He was clearly torn between wanting to believe in Teyla, wanting to follow Shep and agreeing with Bates. An excellent scene, I felt.

And yes, he was asking the right questions. Go Ford!!

Shadow: I'll bite the bunny. Not promising to write though.

As to Grodin's accent... well, apparently I talk posh. It's not his actual accent that I object to, since it is quite close to mine. It's his inflections and use of words that a Brit would never say. Basically he is speaking American with a British accent, which is not how most Brits speak.

But apart from the accent (which, incidentally, he appears to have stolen from Dr Bashir from DS9) I just didn't like the character. He was little more than wallpaper, and I (like someone else up there in the thread) believe that it was a toss up between him and the delicious Dr.Z - and Peter lost. Sorry Pete, you are the weakest link, goodbye!

But what a heroic exit. Good for him.

joanne1138
March 3rd, 2005, 12:28 PM
Nothing has really stuck out at me with the words Grodin uses. Possibly because I spend too much time around Americans. But I have an excuse to rewatch some eppies and check.

I can't argue with Grodin v Zelenka though!

Major Clanger
March 3rd, 2005, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure I could put my finger on specific words - more inflections really.
But it's a good excuse to re-watch the whole season, and then we can start a really nitpicky Grodin Accent Thread.

Oh and Mr.MC wants to know why Rodders went into the satellite thingy alone.

lord-anubis
March 18th, 2005, 05:08 PM
im watching this ep right now its good so far. i just saw the part were shep said they ran in to a t-rex that was funnny to me for some reason

zats
March 18th, 2005, 07:42 PM
Not bad. I'm assuming that several points will become clearer when Pt2 airs (here, anyway)

What was good:
a. McKay bickering. Although I'm liking him a lot less since that little moment on 'Mobius I'.
b. Zelenka. Man, I love that guy.
c. Weir. Good acting on TH's part.
d. Beckett. Didn't exactly have a pivotal role...but I like the character.
e. Bob. Funny! Doesn't have quite the same ring as 'Steve'...but it'll do.

What wasn't good:
a. I liked Grodin! Bring him back!!!!!!!!!!
b. Generally speaking, I like Teyla. Seriously. But I have a hard time with her decking Bates.
c. Speaking of which (and this isn't a bad point, just a comment), why is it taking the other members of the Atlantis team so long to accept Teyla? I seem to remember it taking the SGC a lot less time to accept Teal'c.
d. Sheppard did realize that he was completely shattering the Geneva Convention when he shot Bob, didn't he? I can see his reasons for killing him, but a small part of my brain muttering, "And here Kavanagh goes again."

Just out of curiousity, and my apologies if this has already been covered...why is it that the Wraith want to eat people so much? Why can't they just eat the T. Rex on M1M-316? Are they connisuers (spelling totally off, I know) or what? 'Cause that wraith from 'The Defiant One' didn't seem to have any qualms about eating those insects.

And while I'm thinking about it....watching Zelenka and McKay's little goodbye moment, I couldn't help thinking "And now the Zelenka/McKay shippers join the party."

kadosho
March 18th, 2005, 09:04 PM
This kinda 2-parter definitely has everyone on pins and needles.
And some memories..
"good ole bob" never knew what hit ya
"Grodin.. Did his best being part of the team.. and died bravely.

SmartFox
March 18th, 2005, 09:13 PM
Liked this ep. I think that Sgt. Bates played perfectly. He was a little over the top but only one that showed any concern at all which he should of. *makes a note to go to Sgt. Bates appreciation thread again* The satelite was great too, to bad we had to lose peter. I like him. Also we got another Wraith name; Bob. So its Steve, Bob and the non canon name Greg from Defiant One.

Erik Bloodaxe
March 18th, 2005, 10:58 PM
Not bad. I'm assuming that several points will become clearer when Pt2 airs (here, anyway)

What was good:
a. McKay bickering. Although I'm liking him a lot less since that little moment on 'Mobius I'.

That "little moment on Moebius" was a completely different McKay w/ as much difference in his personality as the alternate Daniel and Carter. ;)


b. Generally speaking, I like Teyla. Seriously. But I have a hard time with her decking Bates.

Well, thing is, not only has she been getting little sleep recently, but Bates essentially smirked at the fact that he was likely making the ultimate insult in the eyes of her culture. When she asked "do you realize how much of an insult it is to us Athosians to insinuate that we would ever collaborate w/ the Wraith?" (or something to that effect), he actually gives a slight smirk as he says "yes, I do". It was like he was egging her on. ;)


c. Speaking of which (and this isn't a bad point, just a comment), why is it taking the other members of the Atlantis team so long to accept Teyla? I seem to remember it taking the SGC a lot less time to accept Teal'c.

Ah, but there are still Earthlings in general that don't trust Teal'c even after this long (just watch Affinity for an indication of this). We just don't notice this because the ones confined to the SGC are the ones that trust him, but for Atlantis everybody that are there are confined to the same place, complete w/ those more-suspicious-minded people that just wouldn't cut it at the SGC. ;) That, and Teal'c had good moments at the very beginning to really earn that trust; here, OTOH, Bates' paranoia seems more often than not to be fueled by the more recent revelations regarding Teyla. That said, it is mainly just Bates w/ that high level of concern regarding her. ;)


d. Sheppard did realize that he was completely shattering the Geneva Convention when he shot Bob, didn't he? I can see his reasons for killing him, but a small part of my brain muttering, "And here Kavanagh goes again."

This came up in "Poisoning the Well", where Sheppard pointed out that if the Wraith were at the Geneva Convention, they would've ate everybody. ;) The Geneva Convention makes sense for a group of humans fighting another group of humans, but a battle of one species against another for the very survival of their entire species... well, not quite sure how that one would work, actually. That said, it also came across in that scene that Bob was goading him on as well. ;)


Just out of curiousity, and my apologies if this has already been covered...why is it that the Wraith want to eat people so much? Why can't they just eat the T. Rex on M1M-316? Are they connisuers (spelling totally off, I know) or what? 'Cause that wraith from 'The Defiant One' didn't seem to have any qualms about eating those insects.

And probably got pretty much nothing off of them, but did it instead just to kill them and keep them from continuing to bother them. "The Gift" actually seems to heavily hint that humans are the only species compatible w/ them because they are in fact part human.

-Bloodaxe

keshou
March 19th, 2005, 07:02 AM
Nooooo........Grodin. :(

If you'd told me when I started watching Atlantis that I'd care more if Grodin or Zelenka got killed off than Teyla or Ford, I would have called you a nutty fruitcake. But it's true. They've done a great job with some of the secondary characters on this show.

McKay was great as usual. Annoying, reluctantly brave. And his face when the satellite blew up. :( I just adore him.

Bates. He was right you know. They should be watching Teyla very closely until they figure out how this wraith-connection thing works. Shep's got his pretty head up his ass on that one. Of course then Bates had to go and be a jerk when Teyla got back. I kind of like that she hauled off and hit him myself - makes her seem a little more interesting at least.

Weir was also pretty good in this. I think TH and the writers are finally getting a handle on how her character should be played. I found myself (finally) buying her as the leader of this expedition. Making the tough decisions. And I didn't even disagree with any of them.

I *so* wish I hadn't been spoiled on the wraith being in the city. That was a master touch having him beam in from the scout ship and go undetected for a couple of weeks. And to have it tie in to Teyla's nightmares/visions from "The Gift". Good stuff. And Shep finally got to name his wraith "Bob".

I still think the wraith are kind of cheesy when they start snarling but I enjoy these little "talks" between Shep and his wraith-in-a-box. Boy he kind of lost it when he shot old "Bob". So what did "Bob" do while he was hiding out at Atlantis? Anxiously waiting for part II.

Yay! Great ep. Good special effects on the satellite and the wraith ships.

Oh, and I'd seen that TVGuide "behind the scenes" thing where they were shooting McKay falling flat on his face when the gravity came on. That was a lot of fun seeing it in the episode. :D

Avalar
March 19th, 2005, 07:47 AM
This is a great episode, but just wait till part 2. You guys are in for a real treat.

not so ancient
March 19th, 2005, 07:57 AM
This is a great episode, but just wait till part 2. You guys are in for a real treat.

That's right, just torment and tease us. :mad: You're cruel. Seven days. Seven WHOLE days. :S

:( ::mopes!:::

Daz
March 19th, 2005, 08:32 AM
''that wraith from 'The Defiant One' didn't seem to have any qualms about eating those insects.''

I took it as he didn't want his position given away to shep because of the insects following him. Remember shep throwing a chocolate bar or something to get rid of them so the wraith couldn't spot him hiding behind the rock?

ToasterOnFire
March 19th, 2005, 09:22 AM
Oh and Mr.MC wants to know why Rodders went into the satellite thingy alone.

My guess would be because they only had one spacesuit.

On that topic, where in the heck did they get it? Was it already on the PJ? Did they bring it from Earth? If so, why did they bring a spacesuit to Atlantis, since we haven't seen any SG1 missions that required one before (have we?)? Also, why did they bring only one?

"Rodders"...hee

Avalar
March 19th, 2005, 09:36 AM
That's right, just torment and tease us. :mad: You're cruel. Seven days. Seven WHOLE days. :S

:( ::mopes!:::

The longer you have to wait, the sweeter it is when you see it. Then again, it's sweet regardless.

Hyperspace
March 19th, 2005, 09:47 AM
My guess would be because they only had one spacesuit.

On that topic, where in the heck did they get it? Was it already on the PJ? Did they bring it from Earth? If so, why did they bring a spacesuit to Atlantis, since we haven't seen any SG1 missions that required one before (have we?)? Also, why did they bring only one?

"Rodders"...hee

In SG-1's "Fail-Safe" Teal'c and O'Neill have spacesuits. So that's at least two.

zats
March 19th, 2005, 10:25 AM
''that wraith from 'The Defiant One' didn't seem to have any qualms about eating those insects.''

I took it as he didn't want his position given away to shep because of the insects following him. Remember shep throwing a chocolate bar or something to get rid of them so the wraith couldn't spot him hiding behind the rock?
Ooh, good point. I hadn't thought about eating something to get rid of it...silly me! :p

zats
March 19th, 2005, 10:27 AM
The longer you have to wait, the sweeter it is when you see it. Then again, it's sweet regardless.
Still mean to tease us, though. Thus far I've managed to resist reading the transcript. Don't make me give in!!! :eek:

Avalar
March 19th, 2005, 10:28 AM
It's not really the transcript that is so impressive about the episode, although there is absolutely no problem with the dialogue.

zats
March 19th, 2005, 10:30 AM
Yeah, but it's the next best thing. And when you combine screen captures with the transcript...well, it still sucks, but it's at least somewhat close.

Redwall
March 19th, 2005, 10:53 AM
In SG-1's "Fail-Safe" Teal'c and O'Neill have spacesuits. So that's at least two.

Also, at the beginning of "Message in a Bottle", I think the episode's name was. With the ball that shoots out a rod and sticks O'Neill into the wall of the gate room.

For someone who mentioned Bates' branch on a previous page: I think all the soldiers in Atlantis besides Sheppard are Marines.

jyh
March 19th, 2005, 11:35 AM
How could anybody think Teyla beat up Bates when she didn't even have a scratch on her when Sheppard and Ford were questioning her? And why was Sheppard letting Ford do the questioning? For practice?

I wondered, too, about Ford questioning Teyla. Plus, he's been a little less easy-going and more suspicious of Teyla lately. Maybe they're setting him up for next season in his sort-of-diminished role. :rolleyes:

Erik Bloodaxe
March 19th, 2005, 06:43 PM
My guess would be because they only had one spacesuit.

On that topic, where in the heck did they get it? Was it already on the PJ? Did they bring it from Earth? If so, why did they bring a spacesuit to Atlantis, since we haven't seen any SG1 missions that required one before (have we?)? Also, why did they bring only one?

"Rodders"...hee

I figure they took spacesuits just in case to prepare for any contigency, and have such a limited number that they only sent them up w/ one since it likely would've only taken one person to get everything back online anyway. :)

-Bloodaxe

caz345
March 19th, 2005, 07:56 PM
unfortunatly my dvr failed to record the siege part 1 does anybody know when it will air again in the USA on the sci fi channel??

Thanks

Oma Desala
March 20th, 2005, 09:17 AM
I only watch SGA because I am a SG-1 fan and my thirst for knowledge is great. So I put up with watching the show just so I know more about the Ancients and such. SGA isn't even close to being as good as SG-1. There were only a handful of episodes of SGA that I liked. I hope part 2 is very good, because this part was alright. I keep hoping this series will get better, but sometimes I wonder.

ToasterOnFire
March 20th, 2005, 03:10 PM
I figure they took spacesuits just in case to prepare for any contigency, and have such a limited number that they only sent them up w/ one since it likely would've only taken one person to get everything back online anyway. :)

Hmm...so they may have more than one suit on Atlantis but they just took one to the satellite. Makes sense. I wonder if we'll ever see them again, or if they were a one time use sort of thing.

For that matter, I wonder if they brought any SCUBA gear...

GhostPoet
March 22nd, 2005, 09:17 AM
EXCELLANT episode. I don't care what cinescape says..they are typical critics..which means their opinions are worth less than a grain of salt. There was great action and great character interaction. Over-all another great Atlantis episode.

Bobthespirit
March 22nd, 2005, 12:01 PM
I liked this episode as a preparatory episode. I like how it sets up the threads for the other episodes. But I don't see why they're remotely afraid of the wraithe getting to earth.

First of all, right now they are outnumbered by the wraithe. On earth...that is not the case. Second of all, how exactly do they get past the iris?

And furthermore, even if they could get past the iris and overwhelm earth's massive numbers. We kinda saved the Asgard from being completely wiped out by the replicators. It seems to me like Thor could just jump over to the Pegasus galaxy and blow up Atlantis for good. Not to mention casually dispatch any wraithe that get remotely into the area.

If the writers want to make it so the wraithe actually become a threat to earth, they'll need to do at least three or four twists-of-convenience. First the wraithe would have to find some sort of phasing technology to beat the iris. (Speaking of which, why don't they send a ship to the Tollan homeworld to see if they can salvage any technology, or maybe even find any survivors?). Then, the wraithe, though they are weaker than the ancients were ten thousand years ago technologically, would have to find some exploit that makes them stronger than the Asgard now. Or the Asgard would need some new distraction that prevents them from even sparing one warship.

And I still don't understand why the Atlantis team can't just blow up the Stargate when they leave. It *is* the only Stargate in the galaxy that can get to earth. The kneejerk reaction 'send a nuke' O'Neall always has? Do that. No more Atlantis.

GatetheWay
March 22nd, 2005, 12:15 PM
The Wrath don't have to use the Stargate to get to earth. As Zelenka explained in the scene where he was showing Weir the self destruct simulation:

ZELENKA: Our self destruct plan. It’s nowhere near effective enough.
WEIR: Now that seemed pretty effective to me.
ZELENKA: Atlantis is more than just a city. It is an intergalactic spacecraft.
WEIR: Yes?
ZELENKA: Yes, well, Teyla said the Wraith are not interested in destroying Atlantis. They’re coming here to get to Earth. They can only do that by going through the Stargate ...
WEIR: ... which means stealing the city, which is why we have a self destruct in place.
ZELENKA: Yes, but if they are even the least bit resourceful – which I must assume that they are – they can easily reverse engineer their own intergalactic engine from the wreckage on the sea bottom.

So the Wraths could build their own ship to get to Earth therefore becoming a big threat to earth.

greytop
March 23rd, 2005, 05:39 AM
Sometimes I like to watch both parts before post in a two part thread and I was going to wait until Pt 2. But a couple of scenes were making me wonder and I have the same question for them.

Why were McKay, Grodin and the pilot all wearing red when they were in the puddlejumper instead the colors of the speciality as with the others?

ToasterOnFire
March 23rd, 2005, 08:34 AM
Why were McKay, Grodin and the pilot all wearing red when they were in the puddlejumper instead the colors of the speciality as with the others?
To allow TPTB to sneek in a Star Trek "red shirt" shout-out when Grodin died? :D
Other than that, perhaps because the red jumpers were more comfortable to wear in zero gravity or when repairing the satellite?

Darkdreams
March 23rd, 2005, 09:50 AM
The Wrath don't have to use the Stargate to get to earth. As Zelenka explained in the scene where he was showing Weir the self destruct simulation:


ZELENKA: Yes, but if they are even the least bit resourceful – which I must assume that they are – they can easily reverse engineer their own intergalactic engine from the wreckage on the sea bottom.

So the Wraths could build their own ship to get to Earth therefore becoming a big threat to earth.


booyaa, yep the wraith would overwelm the earth in full force meaning all their ships lock stock and barrel, think of this they overwelmed the ancients and they were millions of years more advanced then us if the wraith came at us full force the asgard, tokra and anyother race wouldnt have a chance in hell of defeating them unless some way could be developed that would make it so they could not feed from us, in that case the wraith would just destroy us for spite. so we would be screwed either way.

Darkdreams
March 23rd, 2005, 09:52 AM
I liked this episode as a preparatory episode. I like how it sets up the threads for the other episodes. But I don't see why they're remotely afraid of the wraithe getting to earth.

First of all, right now they are outnumbered by the wraithe. On earth...that is not the case. Second of all, how exactly do they get past the iris?

And furthermore, even if they could get past the iris and overwhelm earth's massive numbers. We kinda saved the Asgard from being completely wiped out by the replicators. It seems to me like Thor could just jump over to the Pegasus galaxy and blow up Atlantis for good. Not to mention casually dispatch any wraithe that get remotely into the area.

If the writers want to make it so the wraithe actually become a threat to earth, they'll need to do at least three or four twists-of-convenience. First the wraithe would have to find some sort of phasing technology to beat the iris. (Speaking of which, why don't they send a ship to the Tollan homeworld to see if they can salvage any technology, or maybe even find any survivors?). Then, the wraithe, though they are weaker than the ancients were ten thousand years ago technologically, would have to find some exploit that makes them stronger than the Asgard now. Or the Asgard would need some new distraction that prevents them from even sparing one warship.

And I still don't understand why the Atlantis team can't just blow up the Stargate when they leave. It *is* the only Stargate in the galaxy that can get to earth. The kneejerk reaction 'send a nuke' O'Neall always has? Do that. No more Atlantis.


Well to try to salvage tollan tech is going to be hard the gou'ald attached the planet who's to say they arnt still there if they are forget that but if not most likely everything of value would be destroyed, except for materials to recycle and such.. just a thought

watcher652
March 25th, 2005, 01:30 AM
I only watch SGA because I am a SG-1 fan and my thirst for knowledge is great. So I put up with watching the show just so I know more about the Ancients and such. SGA isn't even close to being as good as SG-1. There were only a handful of episodes of SGA that I liked. I hope part 2 is very good, because this part was alright. I keep hoping this series will get better, but sometimes I wonder.Huh. My feelings exactly. Except, reverse the shows!

I'm slightly irked that I have to watch SG1 because of the crossover story lines. Not that I dislike SG1. I've always liked the writing in the SG1 episodes I've seen (the recent Prometheus Unbound being one of the few exceptions to the rule in my book). But, like everything in life, it's a matter of personal taste. I was never attached to any of the characters on SG1. I don't know why, that's just the way it is. But I love McKay. And all the other Atlantis cast members ring true to me.

So when it became apparent the Grodin was going to die, I was upset. We didn't get a chance to know him, and now he's gone. That young blond guy in the control room that Weir talks to now just doesn't inspire any confidence. Although we'll probably find out he's some kind of science specialist in communications hardware or something like that. But we knew Grodin was a scientist who could hold his own with McKay.

joanne1138
March 25th, 2005, 03:44 AM
Huh. My feelings exactly. Except, reverse the shows!

I'm slightly irked that I have to watch SG1 because of the crossover story lines. Not that I dislike SG1. I've always liked the writing in the SG1 episodes I've seen (the recent Prometheus Unbound being one of the few exceptions to the rule in my book). But, like everything in life, it's a matter of personal taste. I was never attached to any of the characters on SG1. I don't know why, that's just the way it is. But I love McKay. And all the other Atlantis cast members ring true to me.


I'm with you on this one. I was an original SG1 fan but now it seems to have lost the sparkle, with some of it's recent episodes (Except Reckoning. Reckoning rocks). Atlantis is all fresh and shiny with new ideas and as you said, characters you really get attached to. *mourns Grodin*

I thought this episode was a great one in it's own right which served to make it an excellent build up to Seige Part 2.

Fanwoman
March 25th, 2005, 09:28 AM
Why were McKay, Grodin and the pilot all wearing red when they were in the puddlejumper instead the colors of the speciality as with the others?
To allow TPTB to sneek in a Star Trek "red shirt" shout-out when Grodin died? :D
Other than that, perhaps because the red jumpers were more comfortable to wear in zero gravity or when repairing the satellite?
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this elsewhere as a potential explanation for the jumpsuits, but I'm thinking it was to minimize possible sparks. There was no telling what the station might be like inside, so it was a reasonable precaution. As McKay might say, all I know is that fire in a sealed environment can only be very very bad.

Why they were red, though...


I know it was brought up before, but I've only just succumbed and joined GW. There are a few things that bug me in this episode, and the more I think about this one issue, the more it bothers me. Sadly, I think the only explanation is, "because it's a show."

They have said pretty much nothing about the solar system Atlantis is in. For the sake of argument, let's assume the planet Atlantis is on is in an orbit around a sun like ours, at a distance similar to Earth's, about 150,000,000 miles from the sun. A bit more or less won't really make a difference.

So we know the jumper takes 15 hours to get to the defense platform Gaul discovered. There was no mention of which direction the defense platform is, in relation to the planet Atlantis is on, other than it's at a Lagrange point and on the "other side of the solar system." That suggests it's at L3, in roughly the same orbit but on the opposite side of the sun from Atlantis' planet. That would place it roughly 300,000,000 miles away–and that's if you fly in a straight line through the sun. To travel that far in 15 hours would require a speed of about 20,000,000mph. That's mighty fast for such a tiny craft, a lot faster than the speed Sheppard suggested in Suspicion, though he wasn't flying in space at the time.

Okay, so maybe the details of the trip can be explained away by saying it's Ancient technology and/or their solar system is really small...

The station has been without power for 10,000 years. Even with them knowing the Wraith's route, there was no mention of altering the station's orbital speed or trajectory. So, given the vastness of the spaces involved, even if their solar system is small and we ignore 3-dimensional thinking, why, exactly, did the station end up being right in the path of the Wraith? Even if you take into consideration the suggested-but-as-of-yet-never-mentioned-in-the-show possibility that you have to jump to Lagrange points, why not pick one of the four others, all of which would be closer to Atlantis? Why jump to a point that puts the sun between you and your target?

It bugs me.

That the radio in the Jumper has no problems transmitting from the far side of the sun but gets messed up by the storm bugs me.

The idea that even a few terminals might give the Wraith lots of knowledge but ripping some of them out to take to the Alpha site isn't even suggested bugs me.

That neither Grodin nor McKay seemed to consider the possibility the "quadruple bypass" might have some seriously detrimental side effects and that they didn't try to have Grodin cold shirt it to the Jumper bugs me...a lot.

And while I agree Bates is just doing his job, he SO taunted Teyla before she decked him. That wasn't business; that was personal. It might have been stupid of Teyla to do that, but I think he deserved it.

It was nice to finally get to see Zelenka without the glasses. :D

Stricken
June 1st, 2005, 02:28 AM
I liked the episode, great build up to The Siege Part II

SeaBee
June 5th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Nice, story-based 1st episode with a good pace, which is rare for multi-ep story lines.

Some excellent McKay stuff. I really didn't like him in SG-1, but he's kind of grown on me over the run of Atlantis.

greytop
June 5th, 2005, 05:46 PM
Some excellent McKay stuff. I really didn't like him in SG-1, but he's kind of grown on me over the run of Atlantis.I think that is with most people. He played oppsited of Carter in SG-1 and in SGA, he came into his own, IMO.

Lucreleia
June 23rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
I think its just a courtesy - no one wants to give out the details :)
Thus no summerys thus far...

Yes, thanks to the one that marked the spoilers. I'm watching Stargate Atlantis in Fox in Argentina, and it's a first for me, so this way I can enter the forum without spoiling next chapter!
I appreciate the courtesy!

Lucreleia
June 23rd, 2005, 05:42 PM
Oh, and how many of you yelled out loud at the geniuses that 3 people can't play rock, paper, sissors? :p :p :p



Just loved that scene!

But, please, why would you have a pencil in your suit while travelling in a jumper to a satellite, without any paper!!!! :o :rolleyes:
I would instead carry a Victorinox, but not a pencil.... maybe that's just me!

Lucreleia
June 23rd, 2005, 06:19 PM
I *so* wish I hadn't been spoiled on the wraith being in the city. That was a master touch having him beam in from the scout ship and go undetected for a couple of weeks. And to have it tie in to Teyla's nightmares/visions from "The Gift". Good stuff. And Shep finally got to name his wraith "Bob".


First of all, please understand that I have only met the SG world this year, since it is only now that I can see it in my local cable system.

OK, now about the quote: I can undestand that the wraith was undetected for two weeks before finding Bates, but, how did he feed? How long can he be without eating? Why didn't he eat Bates (not that I would want that, but for a reason I don't end up liking him...)

And, come on, when they detected the wraith as a "yellow light", what were all the white lights surrouding him?????? At first I thought they were humans, but apparently he was alone. So??? What were they?????? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Please, if someone reads this (though for the rest of you it must be a really old episode), would you care to give me your opinion?

Dr. Dredd
June 26th, 2005, 07:27 PM
OK, now about the quote: I can undestand that the wraith was undetected for two weeks before finding Bates, but, how did he feed? How long can he be without eating? Why didn't he eat Bates (not that I would want that, but for a reason I don't end up liking him...)

It is a good question. We saw cocooned Wraith in the Defiant One. Maybe "Bob" went into a type of stasis for a week or so, then came out at a time when he knew the hive ships would be closer.

purple_drake
November 2nd, 2005, 04:30 PM
OK, now about the quote: I can undestand that the wraith was undetected for two weeks before finding Bates, but, how did he feed? How long can he be without eating? Why didn't he eat Bates (not that I would want that, but for a reason I don't end up liking him...)

If I recall, Steve lasted for weeks without food. I always thought that Bob did the same; giving up sustenance in return for secrecy, and simply didn't feed at all while he was on Atlantis. As for not eating Bates, if he did then it would've been a dead giveaway that a Wraith was in the city. I know they found out anyway, but he still wouldn't've wanted to make it obvious.

The other possibility is that he had some people stored in the dart that had been previously culled, and beamed them down with him to eat later on.

andrelage
February 23rd, 2006, 09:18 AM
this episode was amazing. shame about grodin but at least he had a heroes death

mckaychick
February 24th, 2006, 10:09 AM
This was one of my favorite episodes of season 1. The episode was amazing and very goood.

captain jake
April 10th, 2006, 08:21 AM
Ya it definately was one of my favourites.

Catsitter
May 6th, 2006, 04:19 AM
Newby to this forum, but I have watched SG1 from the beginning (on Channel 4 in England, so I am only up to the end of season 8), and all the first season of Atlantis. (About to start watching Season 2 Vol 1 DVD)

I just had to register to say that Craig Veroni was born in South Africa and lived there till he was about nine, when he moved to Canada, hence his accent! I've been trying to find a shot of Peter Grodin with his flag on to find out what it is, but so far I haven't managed to find one. But I didn't think he was supposed to be English.

As for Moebius Rodney, that was my favourite part of that episode (as hopefully you can see from my sig), and his personality was like "our" Rodney's would be if he hadn't had the experiences "our" Rodney had (Russia and Atlantis). I have watched that little scene about a hundred times!

captain jake
May 6th, 2006, 08:11 PM
1st-off welcome to the forum.
2nd-I did not know alot of that stuff.

woody
May 12th, 2006, 05:50 AM
This episode was great, and well Catsitter some good info there, and same here just started watching sg - 1 at season 8 not the best idea but hey.

But another Rodney fan is great is Stargate Atlantis on in the UK? if so which channel and time?

Matt G
May 12th, 2006, 12:44 PM
Not at the moment but it was on Sky One 8pm Wednesdays.

captain jake
May 12th, 2006, 05:39 PM
Sorry this might be off topic but why the mask?

purple_drake
May 21st, 2006, 06:43 PM
I just had to register to say that Craig Veroni was born in South Africa and lived there till he was about nine, when he moved to Canada, hence his accent! I've been trying to find a shot of Peter Grodin with his flag on to find out what it is, but so far I haven't managed to find one. But I didn't think he was supposed to be English.

Easy. 'Rising' is about the only episode where he wears his jacket, so it's difficult to get a screenshot of his flag, but if you check out the scene at the beginning, when they're packing up in the SGC, you'll get a nice clear image. Definately British.

Catsitter
May 24th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Thanks for that, you're absolutely right. I wonder if that is why he never wore his jacket again?

harsiesis child
May 26th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Quite good first part, which is may be a bit long, but which has a good cliff, with the destruction of the satellit, I liked it at the first and the second (DVD...) vision :)
At the first vision, I found a bit of "2001 space odyssey" style :D ... what do you think of this?