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GateWorld
November 7th, 2004, 06:24 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/113.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/113.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>HOT ZONE</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 113</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Several residents of Atlantis are infected with a deadly nanite virus, forcing a lockdown of the city.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/113.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
November 22nd, 2004, 05:26 PM
here you go you lucky Canadians. Have fun :D

Major Fischer
November 22nd, 2004, 05:45 PM
I'm going to jump the gun here and speak for all the Spoilerific Americans.

Someone want to give a summery?

Jack O' Neil
November 22nd, 2004, 06:00 PM
This was another great episode! :D This first season is having all really great episodes and this one doesn't dissapoint one bit! I can't wait to find out who the enemies are who made that nanovirus! :D :) Enywayz It was really good!!!!!

Gothann
November 22nd, 2004, 06:12 PM
I'm going to jump the gun here and speak for all the Spoilerific Americans.

Someone want to give a summery?
While the episode is quite long, I'd rather give a short summary of what I have right now since I ran out of tape mid-episode.

Starts out with McKay and a full science team and a military team in a flooded area of the city, then, they recieve a message from two scientists who are being "attacked" by something. When they arrive, one is dead and the other is in shock. After a few moments, the other scientist dies in Zelenka's arms of what seems to be hallucinations.
After that, McKay orders everyone to stay where they are, for fear that they are infected, and contacts Weir telling her of the situation. He then proceeds to go out of where he was and try and find where the two first scientists were when they were infected. He then finds what seems to be a small lab and goes in with Ford covering his six.
Next, we see Sheppard and Teyla training with what seems to be short sticks, after which they recieve the city-wide warning that the city is in lockdown. Sheppard searches for a radio.
Switch back to McKay, he asks for Beckett's medical team, in full Hazard suits, in order to examine everyone. As that happens, one more scientist dies and seemingly throws herself on one of the more jumpy scientists there, who proceeds to have a hallucination and runs away.
Weir sees him running and closes all doors in his way and powers down everything. McKay tells Weir that the guy has just as much knowlege about Ancient technology as he does, and doing those door locks will only slow him down.
Sheppard talks to Weir, demanding that he go get the runaway, Weir says no. Sheppard orders Sargeant Bates to open the door, who is now torn between Sheppard and Weir ordering him to do opposite things. He finally caves in and opens the door, apologizing to Dr. Weir.
Beckett's team gets to McKay, they examine everyone, they learn that the deaths were caused by hemorrages behind the visual center of the brain. Meanwhile McKay has been having hallucinations, alongside another scientist.
Sheppard goes to the med lab, gets a Hazard suit, and goes in search for the guy.
The scientist who was infected dies, and McKay goes into a very emotional speech, thinking they are his last words. When he's done, he notices that he's not dead, wherein he SHOULD have died at the same time as the other. Beckett is intrigued by this and wonders what happened.
Sheppard and Teyla find the runaway man in a hallway, and corner him against a door he just barely opened to go through. As they force him to give up, he runs to a transporter and goes into the Mess Hall of the main tower, but not before being shot by Sheppard's P90. He falls down and dies in the mess hall, with the people there in a panic. Then, the whole city goes into lockdown, where every door closes and all commands cease working.
It's then that Sheppard tries to go back to the main tower, noticing that he can go through a door. He then asks Weir if she can use the doors, who says no, then procedes to yell at Sheppard for having even considered doing what he just did, resulting in the infection of EVERYONE in the control tower.
Ford starts panicking back at the Ancient lab, because he has only an hour left to live.
Sheppard and Teyla reach the Mess Hall and start acessing the infection, then McKay radios in and says that he should go to his lab.
Sheppard then goes there, ordered to initiate an EMP. After doing so, nothing happens, Ford and Zelenka start getting desperate. McKay and Beckett find out that the virus is a nanovirus and that it's made to target solely humans. Since McKay has ATA innoculation, he didn't die, but since Zelenka's body rejected it, his time is clocked at 29 minutes left to live. We now learn that only 48% of people who are innoculated have a lasting effect.
The people in the mess hall have their first hallucination, they panic. Teyla tries to calm them down, but is thrown on glass. She notices that her Hazard suit is cut open, and then gets hit by the knowlege that she's now infected.
McKay thinks of a way to destroy the nanites, by making a nuclear explosion detonate 20 miles over the city. At that point, Weir contests the loss of a Naquadah generator, but Sheppard says it's the only and last shot they all have at survival. She gives the OK. Sheppard makes it go into overload and runs quickly to a PJ. Once inside, he takes the generator to a 20-mile vertical distance and starts to run away from it with 30 seconds to spare, the bomb explodes and everyone waits...

Then, all ancient systems go back online for all humans, the nanobots are all disabled.

Dr.Weir calls Sheppard to talk with her when he gets back, and then points out that General O'Neill and Colonel Sumner had warned her that Major Sheppard has a hard time grasping command structure. Then, McKay and Zelenka go in and talk about the nanovirus, and how they ruled out the implication of the Wraith in it's creation.

McKay notices how it was in an Ancient lab that this thing was being studied... He then asks who made it and why... But he just hopes that the people who made it aren't still around...

End Short Synopsis.

EDIT: Crap, just noticed that I spent half an hour on that one. BEWARE: some of the timeline in my text is very likely out of order by about one or two scenes. Sorry for that, but how do you expect me to remember something I saw fifteen minutes before starting my writing, AND without the tape to guide me.

Gothann
November 22nd, 2004, 06:18 PM
I've just noticed something...

McKay mentions that it was not the Wraith who made the virus. He also tried to avoid/deny that the Ancients made it. If that were true, that would mean that the Atlantis Expedition might be facing way more threats than just the vengeful Genii and the human-farming Wraith... They might be up against a Human-hating race. (ooh, if those are the Furlings I'd just die... Since their reason for breaking the 4-Race Alliance is still unknown, well.. EVERYTHING about them is unknown... They might have developed a hatred for the Humans and disbanded from the Alliance when the Ancients tried to save them. This is just a theory)

Major Fischer
November 22nd, 2004, 06:40 PM
I've just noticed something...

McKay mentions that it was not the Wraith who made the virus. He also tried to avoid/deny that the Ancients made it.

I have NOT seen this episode, and the following is speculation based on his speculation. I'm putting it in White Text for those of you who don't want to read it.

Presuppose for the moment that it was the Ancients who created it. Might it be a biological weapon for use against humans who rebelled or attacked them? I've long been suggesting there is an Alpha/Beta relationship between the Ancients and the humans they seeded. Perhaps some movement of humans did not view their creators so kindly?

Gothann
November 22nd, 2004, 06:49 PM
I have NOT seen this episode, and the following is speculation based on his speculation. I'm putting it in White Text for those of you who don't want to read it.

Presuppose for the moment that it was the Ancients who created it. Might it be a biological weapon for use against humans who rebelled or attacked them? I've long been suggesting there is an Alpha/Beta relationship between the Ancients and the humans they seeded. Perhaps some movement of humans did not view their creators so kindly?
Though that might be a valid cause, it might also be something else...

When the Ancients saw that the humans were the perfect food for the Wraith, they might have created the virus to eliminate all humans in order to cripple the Wraith's feeding grounds.

Major Fischer
November 22nd, 2004, 06:50 PM
Though that might be a valid cause, it might also be something else...

When the Ancients saw that the humans were the perfect food for the Wraith, they might have created the virus to eliminate all humans in order to cripple the Wraith's feeding grounds.

That would also seem extremely plausable to me.

MartoufMarty
November 22nd, 2004, 06:52 PM
Rodney has a sister? Cool...

Rodney developed even more. He was so scared with all the people just dying around him. He took charge for most of the episode, and he was just great.

That episode was great!

Me and my sister figured out the Ancient gene thing about 10 minutes before they did lol. Maybe we should head over to the Pegasus galaxy :P

Loved the close-to-ending-scene. They were just so happy. Ford hugging Beckett (whoohoo) and then hugging McKay (who looked like he was about a cry!) Awww...

I think that it's the Ancients who made the virus. Killing off the Wraith's food source was probably their last plan.

Gothann
November 22nd, 2004, 06:52 PM
That would also seem extremely plausable to me.

Remember, although the Ancients were a benevolent race, they are also one who takes drastic measures in order to protect their own race. Daniel Jackson was punished for having interfered with Ascended Ancient laws by failing to interfere with the happenings in Season 6. We also know that the Ancients took it upon themselves to sink the city of Atlantis instead of stand against the Wraith, fleeing back to Earth instead of protecting what was left of their human seeds.

Major Fischer
November 22nd, 2004, 06:56 PM
Remember, although the Ancients were a benevolent race, they are also one who takes drastic measures in order to protect their own race.

The Ascended cast themselves and the Ancients as a benevolent race. They show little actual evidence of it.

Gothann
November 22nd, 2004, 06:56 PM
Rodney has a sister? Cool...

Rodney developed even more. He was so scared with all the people just dying around him. He took charge for most of the episode, and he was just great.

That episode was great!

Me and my sister figured out the Ancient gene thing about 10 minutes before they did lol. Maybe we should head over to the Pegasus galaxy :P

Loved the close-to-ending-scene. They were just so happy. Ford hugging Beckett (whoohoo) and then hugging McKay (who looked like he was about a cry!) Awww...

I think that it's the Ancients who made the virus. Killing off the Wraith's food source was probably their last plan.
And yet again, Sheppard comes to the rescue...

Well, at least I was able to see a few fun things here, plus the McKay's-last-words bit nearly squeezed a tear out of my eye. His despair almost looked genuine. IMHO that was the greatest acting I've seen David Hewlett do ever since The Cube.

Merlin7
November 22nd, 2004, 07:15 PM
I'm so envious of you guys. As a SHEP lover. Anyone got more details about his role in this? I gather he gets in trouble. Heeee.

Thanks in advance.

MartoufMarty
November 22nd, 2004, 07:42 PM
I'm so envious of you guys. As a SHEP lover. Anyone got more details about his role in this? I gather he gets in trouble. Heeee.

Thanks in advance.
He gets in a bit of trouble, but he's not really there in the episode that much.

He's doing some stick training with Teyla, then he gets Bates to open the door, Elizabeth gets mad at him, he goes around, sets off the EPM, comes up with the idea of the Naquadah generator explosion over the planet, does it, gets yelled at.

Merlin7
November 22nd, 2004, 07:46 PM
He gets in a bit of trouble, but he's not really there in the episode that much.

He's doing some stick training with Teyla, then he gets Bates to open the door, Elizabeth gets mad at him, he goes around, sets off the EPM, comes up with the idea of the Naquadah generator explosion over the planet, does it, gets yelled at.

Thanks. You actually cheered me up. If Shep's not in it much...then not seeing the ep doesn't bother me so much.

queenselqet31
November 22nd, 2004, 07:47 PM
He gets in a bit of trouble, but he's not really there in the episode that much.

He's doing some stick training with Teyla, then he gets Bates to open the door, Elizabeth gets mad at him, he goes around, sets off the EPM, comes up with the idea of the Naquadah generator explosion over the planet, does it, gets yelled at.
He gets a nice smack in the ass by Teyla's stick. Kinky... ;)

MartoufMarty
November 22nd, 2004, 07:49 PM
Thanks. You actually cheered me up. If Shep's not in it much...then not seeing the ep doesn't bother me so much.
Well, he's in there. Just not as much as McKay. It's a great episode to watch! Go watch! Go!

Merlin7
November 23rd, 2004, 02:51 AM
Well, he's in there. Just not as much as McKay. It's a great episode to watch! Go watch! Go!

Wish I could. But stuck not watching till Jan.

Is Sanctuary next week? I take it no scenes of Shep and Mckay together? They kill me together.

Merlin7
November 23rd, 2004, 02:52 AM
He gets a nice smack in the ass by Teyla's stick. Kinky... ;)

Goooo Teyla. *Sigh* Now I'm envious again. I'm all about the Shep and,apparently, so is she. *No I'm NOT shipping* LOL

There is Zalenka, right? He doesn't die does he?

FoolishPleasure
November 23rd, 2004, 04:25 AM
Sounds like Teyla is slowly being changed from "leader of her people" to the Pegasus version of Xena. I want to see good SciFi, not skimpy, leather-clad women warriers. *sigh* The writers still don't know what to do with her.

Gothann
November 23rd, 2004, 05:13 AM
Sounds like Teyla is slowly being changed from "leader of her people" to the Pegasus version of Xena. I want to see good SciFi, not skimpy, leather-clad women warriers. *sigh* The writers still don't know what to do with her.
More like they know, but they don't want us to see it yet. Same as what they wanted for Teal'c. From a mere traitor to a legend within 8 years...

As for Teyla, she seems like she's only good at stick fighting, that's about it. The use of a P90 is yet to be seen from her, though I believe that with such limited ammo they want to train her as basically as possible.

Wass
November 23rd, 2004, 10:39 AM
Wish I could. But stuck not watching till Jan.

Is Sanctuary next week? I take it no scenes of Shep and Mckay together? They kill me together.

Yes next week episode is “Santuary” 114 I thought it was this week and “Hot Zone” 113 was next week but it was gateworlds episode guide that is incorrect and needs updating.

Major Fischer
November 23rd, 2004, 10:42 AM
Yes next week episode is “Santuary” 114 I thought it was this week and “Hot Zone” 113 was next week but it was gateworlds episode guide that is incorrect and needs updating.

Gateworld is not numbering the episodes by the Canada or UK airing order, but by the SciFi airing order, because apparently they occasionally differ and Darren doesn't want to do work only to undo it later.

Wass
November 23rd, 2004, 10:46 AM
I see well I'm not saying Darren is wrong or anything it just that I thought it was the final order of the episodes honest mistake on my part but no big deal.

Ugly Pig
November 23rd, 2004, 11:39 AM
Beware! It's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Hot Zone'

Wow. Another Martin Gero written winner! Boy, that guy just keeps 'em coming, huh? We've just seen his excellent mid-season two-parter, and with just one episode between that and this new one, one has to wonder just how many episodes he can crank out per season. I say, keep that Gero goodness coming! :D

One thing I've noticed is that he seems to have an especially good handle on McKay. Like his tormenting at the hands of those little kids in 'Childhood's End', his planning and his great attitude in 'The Storm'/'The Eye' ("In case you haven't noticed, I'm an extremely arrogant man who thinks all his plans will work!") and his "last will" in 'Hot Zone'. All great stuff. Speaking of McKay - boy, an electromagnatic pulse? That's just his answer to everything isn't it? :D (Well... To this problem and the one in 'Redemption', at least.)

Other than that, this episode also had a lot of other stuff going for it. A nice and creepy atmosphere throughout, including an ending which appears to hint of a dangerous potential enemy the Atlantis team might encounter in the future. Bring it on! This is what is so great about the series being set in an entirely different and unexplored place. No one knows what's out there, no one knows what might happen. It could literally be anything. After half a season, we probably haven't even seen the team scratch the surface of their future adventures. Can you tell I love this show?

Great character interaction, too. We get to see just what Sumner and Jack were talking about regarding Sheppards occasional disregard for chain of command, which leads to an interesting conflict between him and Weir. And it's not fully resolved at the end. Then there's Ford - is it me, or has he just been getting grumpy lately? Is this the direction in which his character is being developed? Or is it just because we happen to always see him at his worst lately? In any case, this episode contains the first instance of someone adressing him by his first name. I know that will make some folks happy.

Lots of recurring characters in this one, too: Beckett, Bates, Zelenka and Grodin. None of whom were, fortunately, among the relatively high amount of expedition members dying. I lost count, but surely this episode alone must have doubled the total body count so far for the team?

Yep, I have a feeling this episode will be followed up on. Probably not this season, though. Can't wait to find out who created those nanites...

veneticuss
November 23rd, 2004, 11:45 AM
Well again your useless opinion as always Piggy :D
What shall i say? :D :D

Mr. Seven
November 23rd, 2004, 12:34 PM
I loved this episode.

We all knew that they weren't going to kill any of the main characters, but still..it was some nice suspense.

Oh and I think that possibily the Replicators made that Nanovirus.

If not them then it was the Ancients. Notice how at the end when McKay says, "Whoever did it, I hope they aren't around anymore.." then the camera cuts to Shepperd who is the closest thing to a living Ancient you can get without being one...

Oh and yeah Teyla was looking great in this episode. Although they had to ruin it and put her in that baggy clunky hazmat suit.

veneticuss
November 23rd, 2004, 12:35 PM
I liked this episode, but still i dont see much development of Ford

Ugly Pig
November 23rd, 2004, 12:37 PM
Oh and I think that possibily the Replicators made that Nanovirus.
Replicators??! Whatever drew you to that conclusion? :confused:

Mr. Seven
November 23rd, 2004, 12:41 PM
Seems like their calling card. I'm only a SG Newbie, so I dunno. I saw the recent SG1 replicator episodes and figured that maybe this little nanovirus later evolved into the Replicators or something like that....

Just a theory though.

Oh and yeah...Ford does need some better character development. He's become...annoying lately.

shockwave
November 23rd, 2004, 12:42 PM
the reps probably weren't around by then

Major Fischer
November 23rd, 2004, 12:44 PM
Replicators??! Whatever drew you to that conclusion? :confused:

I was wondering about that little leap of logic too.

No, it's not logical that the Replicators would do this, they aren't the biological weapons sort of enemies, and we have no evidence that they've ever been in the Pegesus Galaxy, or in fact that they are old enough to have been involved with the Ancients at all.

Ugly Pig
November 23rd, 2004, 12:45 PM
I saw the recent SG1 replicator episodes and figured that maybe this little nanovirus later evolved into the Replicators or something like that....
Nope... See the episode 'Menace' from SG-1 Season 5 to see where the replicators came from.. :)

Mr. Seven
November 23rd, 2004, 12:48 PM
Oh ok, yeah like I said I'm a newb.

PlaZ
November 23rd, 2004, 12:49 PM
no, the replicators cannot have something to do with this
they were created back home by that robot chick and they just recently evolved to a more advanced form (human reps) so it is unlikely (acually, make that impossible) that they did their thing far away in peg galaxy at way higher tech level too


about the ep: i enjoyed it much.
but i guess it wont really contribute to the whole storyline for quite some time. i know however that the writers have to stop killing atlantis team every episode.

Ugly Pig
November 23rd, 2004, 12:52 PM
i know however that the writers have to stop killing atlantis team every episode.
Every episode? I've actually been surprised at how little they've been killing Earth people off. Until 'The Storm' I don't remember anyone dying except Sumner in the pilot.

Taonas
November 23rd, 2004, 12:53 PM
This episode was amazing!!! IMO Atlantis hasn't had a single bad episode so far!

Could there have been an enemy before the Wraith? Or could the Wraith have been servants of that enemy? This episode presents a new possible threat to the Ancients

aAnubiSs
November 23rd, 2004, 01:18 PM
I really don't see why the Ancients would build nanites with chips and wires. The Ancients moved away from that a long time ago, so why would they design something that's millions of years less advanced then that they've got now.

waz
November 23rd, 2004, 01:44 PM
There is Zalenka, right? He doesn't die does he?


No

Merlin7
November 23rd, 2004, 02:15 PM
No


Phew. Thank you. I really like Zalenka.

ColdZero
November 23rd, 2004, 02:40 PM
Well if the virus wasn't created by the Wraith, and not by the Ancients, but it doesn't attach ancients....then is there some other advanced race in Pegasus that hates the wraith, likes the ancients and has no regard for human life if it helps them defeat the wraith? That could be interesting. Especially if the Ancients tried to protect the humans from these people.

Major Fischer
November 23rd, 2004, 02:46 PM
I'm still betting that it was a weapon created by the Ancients for use as a means of cutting the Wraith food source, or perhaps in some weapon against a human enemy.

Z_2
November 23rd, 2004, 02:48 PM
Just a quick post. Didn't look to see if anyone brought this up in this thread already, but is Sora going to stay on Atlantis? It wasn't shown if she was shipped back to the Genii at the end of The Eye, and she wasn't in The Defiant One or Hot Zone.

If she sticks around, Sora seems about Ford's age, and they'd be good sparring partners or something. What do you think? ;)

Also, did you notice that McKay carried around a Zodiac 1 in The Eye (kinda like a Teddy Bear for comfort at the end of the episode), and it also was shown on the table/counter/Ancient computer console in the Ancient Lab near McKay and a laptop in Hot Zone? Tapwave was using their Stealth Marketing (http://mboard.scifi.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=84862&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1) again! They just need to capitalize on it with some brand awareness. :cool:

Major Fischer
November 23rd, 2004, 02:50 PM
I doubt they're going to let Sora have any weapons if she's still in an Atlantis holding cell.

somme
November 23rd, 2004, 02:53 PM
I wanna know who that enemy is. I thought the ancients to start with, but the built up the "mystery" to much at the end for it to be them. I can't really see two years down the line, "Yeah it was the ancients who built those nanites, eh well, anyone got a something without lemon in it?"

Z_2
November 23rd, 2004, 03:00 PM
Well, that's a good point if she's in a holding cell; I didn't think about that. But Sheppard quipped that he saw that Teyla had made a 'friend' at the end of The Eye. So could it be since she helped bring back Beckett that she might have had a change of heart? Or would she have to "serve time", if she's still there at Atlantis, for her past actions?

And should Atlantis be run with more respect for the various leaders and their responsibilities like in Battlestar Galactica's Litmus? Or is the informal-ness between Weir and Sheppard good enough? At least it isn't as unorganized as the group in ABC's Lost!

Melyanna
November 23rd, 2004, 03:08 PM
I suspect that it was created by a non-human race who, much like the Retu encountered in SG-1 were trying to deprive the Goa'uld of hosts, were trying to quell the power of the Wraith by denying them a food source. And I'm really hoping, unlike McKay, that they're still out there and this thread doesn't get tied off in just one episode.

Mel

Liv
November 23rd, 2004, 03:45 PM
I am so loving this show! This was another wonderful episode, filled with suspense, great acting and a side of humor throughout.

The opening with McKay, Zelenka and the prime number challenge was funny; and I can't help but wonder exactly how long they had asked Ford to contribute with his guesses, because he was a bit on the grumpy side there. :p

McKay really took charge from the very beginning of this episode. Loved that. And nice to see a bit more of Grodin, Zelenka and Bates too. Speaking of Bates; I thought it was a nice touch to have him follow Sheppard's orders and not Weir's. I like that they're keeping his character somewhat unpredictable.

I thought the stick fighting sequence with Sheppard and Teyla was pretty funny. In a good way.

Sheppard: "If this was really a fight, I would have shot you by now."

Teyla looked close to rolling her eyes at that statement. :D

McKay's "Interesting?!" in response to Zelenka saying the same thing, when they'd found out Rodney was going to be okay, was just hysterical to me. That look on his face and the tone of his voice is what had me nearly ROFL. Loved all the things he was telling Zelenka and Ford to think of when he tought he was dying. DH just continues to impress me. He can go from funny to emotional in the blink of an eye.

Oh, and the best line of the episode belonged to Sheppard:

- "Get as far away from the nuclear explosion as possible... That's good advice, Rodney." Heh. :D

What else? Well, the infected people in the mess hall were flailing about a bit too much, I thought. A bit on the comical side there; but it's no big deal really, since the rest of the episode was so amazing.

And oh yeah, the virus. Scary, obviously, but I'm curious about the visions that accompanied them. McKay mentioned something about that and it just made me wonder if that is any sort of a clue to who's behind it. Not that I have any theories on that. ;)

Also; I liked that we got to see some conflict between Sheppard and Weir. Makes things interesting.

ColdZero
November 23rd, 2004, 03:51 PM
Wait a minute, if the Ancients were the only ones living on atlantis and the ancients were unaffected by this disease, then....why did Atlantis seal everybody off? If you can't get infected by the diesase, why stop people who have it from walking around. If anything, thats proof of a few possibilities I can think of right now:

1. There were humans living on Atlantis and the Ancients designed this feature into the city to protect anybody who was living there from this.

2. The Ancients were trying to cure the disease and brought some humans to Atlantis and did not want it to spread to others.

3. The Ancients designed the city for humans as well knowing they may return one day to awaken the city.

The fact that the city sealed itself to protect the humans is proof that the Ancients were not malevolent towards the humans and built this feature into the city thinking ahead. Its strange that Atlantis, with all its protective measures didn't just create an EMP when it detected the virus was loose. You'd think the Ancients would have thought of a way to get rid of the virus when the the method to do so is so simple. Unless it knew it would destroy their computers....those silly Ancients always thinking of everything.

kashi
November 23rd, 2004, 04:29 PM
Presuppose for the moment that it was the Ancients who created it. Might it be a biological weapon for use against humans who rebelled or attacked them? I've long been suggesting there is an Alpha/Beta relationship between the Ancients and the humans they seeded. Perhaps some movement of humans did not view their creators so kindly?

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The virus makes humans see horrible nightmarish ghosts. It's designed to torture them. The Ancients were not that evil.

kashi
November 23rd, 2004, 04:30 PM
Wait a minute, if the Ancients were the only ones living on atlantis and the ancients were unaffected by this disease, then....why did Atlantis seal everybody off? If you can't get infected by the diesase, why stop people who have it from walking around. If anything, thats proof of a few possibilities I can think of right now:

1. There were humans living on Atlantis and the Ancients designed this feature into the city to protect anybody who was living there from this.

2. The Ancients were trying to cure the disease and brought some humans to Atlantis and did not want it to spread to others.

3. The Ancients designed the city for humans as well knowing they may return one day to awaken the city.

The fact that the city sealed itself to protect the humans is proof that the Ancients were not malevolent towards the humans and built this feature into the city thinking ahead. Its strange that Atlantis, with all its protective measures didn't just create an EMP when it detected the virus was loose. You'd think the Ancients would have thought of a way to get rid of the virus when the the method to do so is so simple. Unless it knew it would destroy their computers....those silly Ancients always thinking of everything.

Not at all. It might just react this way to the presence of nanobots in general. There may well be other nanobots designed to kill Ancients.

Gothann
November 23rd, 2004, 04:33 PM
I'm guessing that the nanites were most likely a dumbed-down version of what may be a foreshadowing of the REAL virus, one that would kill Ancients.

Now this is wild theory, but it COULD tie up loose ends: The Ancients were studying and working on the bugs; Ancients wanted to protect their race from a plague; the Ancients happened to fail in their attempts to protect humans from the virus.

First case: The Atlantean Ancients most likely had been infected by this virus. Something stranger even, it may have been released on the City when it was on Earth. This is cause for the outbreak caused by Ayiana, which she could cure herself, probably because her manipulation through her mind could destroy the nanites within someone else's body.

Second case: The plague affected the Ancients to the point that they had to Ascend. The ones left to fight it were "wiped out" by it, but I'm theorizing that the plague happened before Atlantis left Earth. Now, the Ancient physiology is proven to be similar to that of Humans, only with vastly superior abilities. That, coupled with self-regeneration, could lead to the Atlanteans being able to fend off the Nanite virus long enough to find a way for it to be dumbed down from affecting the Atlanteans.

Third case: I'm quite sure that they did NOT test the nanites on the Humans they brought to seed the Pegasus galaxy. That would suggest that they DID make Ancients resistant to it yet since the humans don't have the same advanced physiology, they can't resist the virus. What's worse, it affects them at a faster rate.

Through all of this, it still keeps the arc of a "new and more terrifying" enemy set up by the episode.

Now feel free to pick my theory apart if you wish.

Major Fischer
November 23rd, 2004, 04:54 PM
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The virus makes humans see horrible nightmarish ghosts. It's designed to torture them. The Ancients were not that evil.

We have no idea what the Ancients were like. Our experiances with the Ascended is mostly with a renegade group that may or may not even involve Ascended Ancients.

Our experiance with the Ancients themselves is for the most part what they said about themselves.

aAnubiSs
November 23rd, 2004, 05:42 PM
I guess it could've been created by an advanced alien race that decided that having regular humans in the galaxy would only make the Wraith stronger, but killing the Ancients wasn't needed since they are very powerful.

We know that Pegasus is a drawf-galaxy in the Andromeda galaxy, so it is possible that the Wraith started out (and still are there) in Andromeda and has an old enemy there. (60+ Hive Ships sounds little for a race that has been around for a very, very long time) Could be the Furlings for example, they created the virus as a last resort.

Although I don't believe it's either Ancient nor Furling. The writers screwed up when they made the nanites with chips and wires and therefore being effected by an EMP. Any technological race would've dumped chips&wires a long time ago.

If we forget about the EMP bit we have much more options.

1. Furlings or someone else as I said before.
2. Ancient Atlantis defensive weapon (We don't know that it doesn't affect the Wraith. The halucinations might be anti-Wraith stuff kicking in).

There are a near infinite number of possibilities if one forgets the EMP part :)

Gothann
November 23rd, 2004, 06:23 PM
Yet there are a million possibilities if one KEEPS the EMP part, too.

A race that has achieved nano-tech wiring can eventually lead into a whole different race specialty. We all know that wires are what makes everything computer or electric-related weak to magnets and EM fields, yet they offer one reliable source of routing command transfer in a concrete manner.

It may be that whoever made that virus has evolved their technology past the nano-tech point into smaller things.

ColdZero
November 23rd, 2004, 06:23 PM
From the Torment of Tantalus we know that there was an aliance with the Nox, the Asgard and the Furlings. We don't know about the Furlings, but both the Nox and the Asgard are peaceful races. I don't think either of them would associate with the Ancients if they were evil. Aiyala decided to heal the rest of the team in Anarctica from the plague she was carrying rather than just save herself, which she could have done very easily. Also, the Ancients were this all powerful race, they have no reason to decieve us. Malevelent or not, there is nothing anybody in the galaxy could do to stop them. If they wanted to conquer us, there is no reason to play the "good guy" part to trick us into accepting them. On the same note, there is no reason to leave a note to us at Atlantis telling us of what they did and how they awoke the Wraith.

I think from what we've seen we can assume that the Ancients were a benevolent race that tried to help the humans where they could. We haven't seen anything to suggest that the Ancients were evil or had alterior motives.

Mr. Seven
November 23rd, 2004, 06:24 PM
Well the thing is, the Ancients might have been trying to figure out a way to combat the nanites. Just because they were in their lab doesn't mean that they created the virus. Although their built in immunity does raise an eyebrow. Which pretty much throws out the possibility that they were trying to find out how to prevent humans from becoming infected with it.

I dunno, it was kind of close to the images that the Wraith sometimes make. Probably a connection in there somewhere.

Oh and I think that they need to get Sora out of the brig soon...it doesn't make sense to just let her sit in there rotting away. Sure Shepperd probably wants to treat her as an enemy solider, but she could be very useful to them.

I could see her and Ford hooking up.

Gothann
November 23rd, 2004, 06:37 PM
Mr. Seven, as I suggested, the Ancients might have been fighting the virus in order to save their race. With my semi-broken timeline it would also show how no humans were infected due to the nanites being contained and hidden away in the outskirts of the city.

I'm guessing the Ancients either knew that the humans would get infected and harvested the bugs from their bodies and in the air, then hid them away. AFTER that they brought humans here. The improbability that a human would find the nanites and break a vial became very probable, 10 THOUSAND years later...

As for the people who made the nanites, since they are unknown as of yet, it's safe to assume that they are NOT the Wraith and it's nearly safe to assume that it's not the Ancients. This foreshadowing of a bigger threat could lead to somewhat of a helpless battle to gain a foothold in Atlantis...

If my storyline layout is the most accurate, that could spell the end for the Atlantis Expedition within a few years, IF they don't get help from an outside source (Furlings, more Nox, Asguard... or Ancients)

kodamawu
November 23rd, 2004, 07:13 PM
Oh and yeah Teyla was looking great in this episode. Although they had to ruin it and put her in that baggy clunky hazmat suit.
i know!! i thought she was sooo hot in that dress, i was hoping that her and shep would get locked in the gym and start getting it on! *drools*

Mr. Seven
November 23rd, 2004, 07:16 PM
Yes that would give double meaning to the episode title....

I think there has been a double meaning to every title though since the Rising.

Zamboni
November 23rd, 2004, 08:25 PM
Where the heck is Teyla getting her dresses? Anybody ever wonders? I mean, the rest of the personnel are wearing uniforms, only Teyla runs around in a different dress everyday... And for every occasion... Not that I'm complaining...

Major Fischer
November 23rd, 2004, 08:28 PM
Where the heck is Teyla getting her dresses? Anybody ever wonders? I mean, the rest of the personnel are wearing uniforms, only Teyla runs around in a different dress everyday... And for every occasion... Not that I'm complaining...

Especially given that they left Athos in a hurry, and she herself was kidnapped by the Wraith and went directly from the Wraith ship to Atlantis. Didn't see any luggage there.

Zamboni
November 23rd, 2004, 09:07 PM
Maybe there are a bunch of duty-free shops on Atlantis? Afterall it's almost like an airport... It's got jumpers, and gates (well, gate... but still)... LOL

rhade
November 23rd, 2004, 09:07 PM
What a great episode it had suspence, some great recurring characters and some character development for the main characters. I really liked the atmosphere of it. I think that the writers are planting seeds about new threats in the future. I think they have a general idea about who they are but until they are brought into the fold who knows. Overall it was very well done. It keeps the tension high throughout and I can't wait to see the rest of the season.

KayMan2k
November 23rd, 2004, 09:27 PM
Diverging a bit from the major plot points, it is terrible that parts of Atlantis are damaged.. maybe beyond repair. The sensors did not detect the infection while in the flooded zone :( I wonder just how much more damage Atlantis recieved? Homefully not much. Its not fun living in a broken city. I am looking forward to Atlantis being restored to full health in the upcoming seasons.

Red_Rabbit
November 23rd, 2004, 10:02 PM
OK I thought that this was a great ep but there was one thing that really bugged me, if you set off an EMP you would not be able to yous your mics after it went off, now unless they shut them off right before the emp and then turned it right back on i might by it but besides that it was a great ep.

w1cket01
November 23rd, 2004, 11:03 PM
I wasn't quite sure why McKay survived. Was it because he had the Ancient gene?

I'm hoping that the new "enemy" might launch new and shocking revelations in the Atlantis universe.

kodamawu
November 23rd, 2004, 11:16 PM
Especially given that they left Athos in a hurry, and she herself was kidnapped by the Wraith and went directly from the Wraith ship to Atlantis. Didn't see any luggage there.
maybe some1 else picked it up for her? or maybe some1 else made it or gave it to her, or maybe she just likes to take clothes and rip them up into really hot outifts, man she was so hot in that ep

Athenaktt
November 23rd, 2004, 11:25 PM
I wasn't quite sure why McKay survived. Was it because he had the Ancient gene?

I'm hoping that the new "enemy" might launch new and shocking revelations in the Atlantis universe.

Yes Mckay lived because he had the Ancient gene. Some where in the episode they said that these nanites were made to target only humans. But the things they don't know who made the nanites...dun dun dun...

Mio
November 24th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Interesting. I hope that they won't pull a SG1 and abandon what could be a really neat story line.

aAnubiSs
November 24th, 2004, 04:22 AM
Yeah I hope they make sure to keep most storylines active, or finish them properly.

Wass
November 24th, 2004, 04:33 AM
Damn it I thought the virus was designed to kill ancients need to pay more attention.

Teal'c
November 24th, 2004, 04:42 AM
I loved Shep's solution: Nuke it! :P

I never thought I'd see the day when nuking a virus is the solution to a problem. Very original :D

Wass
November 24th, 2004, 04:54 AM
Hey it could have been worst they could have called in the wraith.

sdfd
November 24th, 2004, 07:02 AM
I loved Shep's solution: Nuke it! :P

I never thought I'd see the day when nuking a virus is the solution to a problem. Very original :D


Yeah...You got a problem? - Nuke it. :rolleyes:

Though, I must admit that this solution is plausible... ;)
Is it possible that the SGA death toll has risen significantly over the past few episodes? Is that a smart move by the authors? There should be some people remaining until the season finale...

veneticuss
November 24th, 2004, 07:16 AM
I guess it could've been created by an advanced alien race that decided that having regular humans in the galaxy would only make the Wraith stronger, but killing the Ancients wasn't needed since they are very powerful.



You might have a point there, remember what were the Reetous doing?

Anyway the thing about Sara, i think they will exange her in order to get that ZPM in the ep Brotherhood.

kodamawu
November 24th, 2004, 09:15 AM
Yeah...You got a problem? - Nuke it. :rolleyes:

Though, I must admit that this solution is plausible... ;)
Is it possible that the SGA death toll has risen significantly over the past few episodes? Is that a smart move by the authors? There should be some people remaining until the season finale...
hm thats kinda making me wonder, they used 1 generator on that black fog monster thingy, they've used another one on this bio weapon thingy, naquadah generators cant be easy to come by, so it makes you wonder how many they have left and how much of a setback it is everytime they lose one.

sdfd
November 24th, 2004, 10:01 AM
hm thats kinda making me wonder, they used 1 generator on that black fog monster thingy, they've used another one on this bio weapon thingy, naquadah generators cant be easy to come by, so it makes you wonder how many they have left and how much of a setback it is everytime they lose one.


I think their naquadah generators will last until the season finale. By then, they will have a connection to earth from where they will be able to replenish their supplies. But I suspect this problem is never going to be dealt with by the authors...So the show will pretend as if they have unlimited resources... You need a naquadah generator? -You simply have one. That's the way things work on this show...

SGA is a very good show, but it is definitely not perfect.

the dancer of spaz
November 24th, 2004, 10:40 AM
Hey guys! Just wanted to thank you all personally for putting all of those spoilers up there! It took me a while to get over here, but I'm glad I did. While I am very proud of SG-1's sister show, I haven't quite been obsessed over it... yet... I'm sure, with the coming months, that will change! :)

Anyway, quick question - sorry if it's been asked before - but I was just wondering if I'm to understand that Teyla's character development is at a minimal and Ford's is also nonexistent? Just wanted to clarify the general consensus.

I still hold out hope for both Teyla and Ford, because I see potential in them. I also know that Teal'c had, like, twelve lines and three facial expressions per season, during the early years, so I don't worry much. They're still fleshing her out like they were Teal'c, and now he's a very much-loved character. :P Apparently they really dig the Token Alien thing. ;) And I think she'll get her chance to hit her mark in The Gift and The Seige Parts I and II .

As for Ford... It doesn't look like they're gonna do that man justice this season. For one thing, it seems like he's a very young character, and they need to play into his expertise as well as his inexperience. Also, they tried to mention his Grandma and stuff, but I don't think they really went into detail like they could have. Ah well... There's always next season. :D


DoS ;)

aAnubiSs
November 24th, 2004, 10:53 AM
I expect some heavy Ford development early in season two, else I'll be sending out some death threats :)

Merlin7
November 24th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Okay....as someone who has only read the transcript. Did anyone who saw the ep think it interesting that Bates obeyed Shep over Weir? I mean...I know he obeyed orders in SUSPICION. But Weir picked Bates and he seems to have an allegience with her. But when push came to shove, even after Weir says Bates agreed with her about the actions taken *I think it was bates*....but in the end, Bates obeys Shep and we know they don't see eye to eye.

AsgardCarnage
November 24th, 2004, 03:43 PM
great ep as always. loved the fight between shep and telya. i have a few points

* The ancient data base: i was hoping it would go the way of the 3rd zat shot, but there it was again, i'm glad they are trying to dumb it down only holding some information not a know all end all kind of thing.

* The Virus: i dont think this is the ancient killer virus that nearly destroyed their people all them years ago, other wise why would the virus not work on ancients. and if the ancients didn't make the virus why did they have it in their lab. if they found it on some other planet y didn't it say so in the research mckay found? maybe he just wasn't up to that part.

so why would someone make a nano-virus thaat makes u see visions like the wraith make and then 6 hours later explode your brain? it would seem to point towards the wraith being pupets for a greater race, someone who dosn't want the humans in this galaxy so they make a virus to try and kill them, the ancients put a stop to that with no problem (and keep samples for study) so for some reason unable to battle the ancients them selfs, they decide we will make a race of creatures that only eat humans and ancients using the bug thing they found as a prototype for the race.

so obviusly its the ferlings, yeah sure why not them 40ft death robots made out of an even mix of flowers and puppies did it, anyhing unexplained in the staargate universe was the ferlings who else could it be?

i wonder if the writers knew they would do more with the ferlings after only casually mentioning them 2 times or how the fans would react to a non-story race. lol

Mio
November 24th, 2004, 04:04 PM
The ancient data base: i was hoping it would go the way of the 3rd zat shot, but there it was again, i'm glad they are trying to dumb it down only holding some information not a know all end all kind of thing.


I have no problem with them using the database, so long as the writers keep in mind that nearly all of the information in there would be on a scientific level so far above the Atlantis team, that it would be pretty useless to them.


But getting data on things like the city's layout, the symptoms of this virus....

Those I'm fine with.

AsgardCarnage
November 24th, 2004, 04:41 PM
i'd be fine with that as well, small story points nothing major like they key to accention is on page 312. i guess i would be fine with that

also i guess it makes sence ancients storing their common knowladge type things in a database

ShadowMaat
November 24th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Forgive if this has been mentioned before, I'm a bit tired and not reading well... ;)

Great ep. Very suspenseful, good action, good plot and character development. McKay has a sister. Very interesting. Now, as for the nanites....

There seems to be some indication that the Ancients could be responsible for the nanovirus. This would be a very interesting development and would further deepen the idea that the Ancients aren't as all-benevolent as they like to claim. HOWEVER... Ancient tech, from the look of it, seems to be immune to EMPs. The Ancient comp systems and PJ and all that continued to function as normal. So... if the Ancients DID design the nanites, why would they make them succeptible to EMPs?

I'll talk more if/when I get a chance. Running out of battery power now and my plug is in my luggage which is god knows where waiting for our 7 hours delayed flight to London... *sigh* Random OT comment. It's been a long day.

Back on topic- I love McKay and Zelenka. They're a great duo. ;) Hope we get to see more of Dr. Z and find out more about him. :)

Boo on Ford's continuing lack of development! :P

Mio
November 24th, 2004, 06:19 PM
Also, Peter appears to be more than just Siler. I mean, He's still the Pegasus's Siler, but more like a Siler 2.0 <ramble>

Chevron_nine
November 24th, 2004, 08:25 PM
I just noticed something. Zelenka and McKay were WRONG. During their prime numbers game McKay asked if 4021 was prime, Zelenka said No, McKay didn't say he was wrong but according to www.prime-numbers.org (http://www.prime-numbers.org/) it is prime:)

lordvader
November 25th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Can I put forth a theory?

A biological weapon, specifically targeted at humans?
Can anyone say Aschen?

What if they were the ones who created the plague that killed the ancients too?

sgeureka
November 25th, 2004, 04:05 AM
It's possible that the Ancients tried to be a benevolent race, but with so many members in their community, I'm sure they must have had some wackos with them. Imagine walking around in a city the size of New York City with no-one living there (like in a few thousand years). I wouldn't be surprised if you found an appartment with some very lethal drugs/weapons in there, and after all this time it would be hard to determine if a chemistry student was experimenting around a little, if there was a single mad man doing his job, or if the entire civilization had some issues with your race.

I'm going with a small evil Ancient subgroup, but I think the TPTB will do something else with this story.

Mio
November 25th, 2004, 05:20 AM
Can I put forth a theory?

A biological weapon, specifically targeted at humans?
Can anyone say Aschen?

What if they were the ones who created the plague that killed the ancients too?

Uh. No.

A) The downfall of the Ancients timeline doesn't even remotely correspond with the aschen timeline.

B) The aschen were humans.

C) They didn't have the ability to even hop more than a solar system away.

lordvader
November 25th, 2004, 07:08 AM
Uh. No.

A) The downfall of the Ancients timeline doesn't even remotely correspond with the aschen timeline.

B) The aschen were humans.

C) They didn't have the ability to even hop more than a solar system away.

But how much do we know about the Aschen timeline? How can we be sure that they didn't once reside in the Pegasus galaxy, find their way to the Milky Way, and somehow lose a lot of their tech ?

And just because they're human, doesn't mean they won't target other humans ... They were about to unleash a biological attack on earth in "2001" .....

Wass
November 25th, 2004, 07:19 AM
I agree with you that the aschen will not hastate to target other humans from what we have learnt about them they seem to be experts in everything about human biology. Each race of human encountered by SG-1 have been experts in certain field but I disagree with you that the aschen are from Pegasus galaxy that just sounds to far fetched to be true.

Ugly Pig
November 25th, 2004, 07:21 AM
Do nanites even count as a biological weapon? And in any case, they looked nothing like the stuff the Aschen use.

ColdZero
November 25th, 2004, 07:24 AM
So the Aschen came from Pegasus, decided to pick the MW out of all other galaxies, found a planet, settled, lost all their tech and the knowledge to recreate it, started from scratch again, found a stargate made by the very people who were in the galaxy they came from, and for all of their advanced technology they couldn't figure out stellar drift? I think the Aschen are best left in the MW as just a more advanced race rather than the convoluted story that would lead to them being the creators of that virus.

Wass
November 25th, 2004, 07:25 AM
It’s more of an artificial weapon

ColdZero
November 25th, 2004, 08:16 AM
What if the Wraith were created by the real "enemy" of the Ancients as soldiers. This race lost control of the Wraith and decided to create the virus to destroy their food source in a last ditch effort to stop them. The virus doesn't target Ancients because they were the next best hope for stoping the Wraith if this virus failed. The Ancients were studying the virus to find a way to protect the humans. Eventually the Wraith ate their creators and began attacking atlantis.

lordvader
November 25th, 2004, 08:28 AM
It is far fetched .... but it'll be cool no ?

I miss the Aschen :(

Wass
November 25th, 2004, 08:34 AM
It is far fetched .... but it'll be cool no ?

I miss the Aschen :(


Me personally I would like to keep the humans races encountered by sg-1 out of Atlantis.

Wass
November 25th, 2004, 08:36 AM
What if the Wraith were created by the real "enemy" of the Ancients as soldiers. This race lost control of the Wraith and decided to create the virus to destroy their food source in a last ditch effort to stop them. The virus doesn't target Ancients because they were the next best hope for stoping the Wraith if this virus failed. The Ancients were studying the virus to find a way to protect the humans. Eventually the Wraith ate their creators and began attacking atlantis.


Hey that’s a good explanation but some how TPTB will add more twist/surprise to this story line that is if they follow up on this episode.

asura
November 25th, 2004, 04:12 PM
What if the Wraith were created by the real "enemy" of the Ancients as soldiers. This race lost control of the Wraith and decided to create the virus to destroy their food source in a last ditch effort to stop them. The virus doesn't target Ancients because they were the next best hope for stoping the Wraith if this virus failed. The Ancients were studying the virus to find a way to protect the humans. Eventually the Wraith ate their creators and began attacking atlantis.

If you remember the first episodes the hologram in atlantis said that the ancients came to pegasus to seed life because thay could not detect any there and that was several million years ago.
In the episode with the virus to block the wraith feeding shepard said that steve only had an appatite for one type of meal, humans.
And in the defiant one you saw that a wraith could possiably live 10000 years If he had a large supply of humans and a couple of wraith to feed from.
The wraith ancient war started 10000 years ago.
It obviously took a long time for the ancients to seed life through pegasus say a couple million years.
The wraith couldent of been the ones the ancients woke because there is no way thay would of been able to survive millions of years without food without compleatly destroying their race.
The nanite virus was probabily made a long time ago by some melovent race and when the ancients woke them they used it on the ancients but the ata gene stopped it so thay created the wraith to battle the ancients.
If for example you look at the wraith tech thay have weapons capaible of defeating ancient shields but dont seem to have any shield tech themselves.
Also it would seem their hyperspace drives are not all that advanced because if thay where the wraith would be able to harvest several planets a day and thay would of been at atlantis by now.

Taonas
November 25th, 2004, 04:18 PM
Does anyone else find that even Zelenka is becoming more important than Ford? :(

(by amount of time spoken)

Major Fischer
November 25th, 2004, 05:04 PM
Does anyone else find that even Zelenka is becoming more important than Ford? :(

(by amount of time spoken)

I'm of the general opinion that they either need to drop the character, or develope him, or move him to a secondary role, because right now, Ford is about as deep as a frizbie, and that's a shame.

ShadowMaat
November 25th, 2004, 05:07 PM
Zelenka has, IMO, had a lot more character development than Ford has. Or, at least, he seems to come across better onscreen. Rainbow seems like a very nice guy. I feel kinda sorry for him that Ford is being reduced to Pointless Exposition Guy. He's the Swiss Army Knife character, he does whatever needs doing in a particular plot, but he's more of a utility than an actual character.

Incidentally, one scene that I intensely disliked was the freak-out scene in the cafeteria. I know it's hard to react to something that isn't there, but it REALLY looked like they were reacting to something that wasn't there (meaning it looks as if the director said, "OK, now scream and start panicking and lash out at the invisible somethings that are trying to attack you! OOOoo, they're scary!!"). I didn't buy it at all. If the nanites are all programmed the same, it might have been slightly more interesting if, say, they'd all reacted to "danger" coming from the same direction. I think it still would have looked stupid, though.

And how come the people trapped down below didn't react like that? They encountered the virus before the cafeteria dwellers did. And don't tell me it's because they knew what they were dealing with- McKay knew, too, and he still freaked out a bit. And the cafeteria people had an idea what was going on, too. So how come no freakout from the initial group? Standing around looking nervous is all well and good, but it doesn't do much to convey a sense of fast-approaching doom. :P

ColdZero
November 25th, 2004, 06:43 PM
What if the Wraith were created by the real "enemy" of the Ancients as soldiers. This race lost control of the Wraith and decided to create the virus to destroy their food source in a last ditch effort to stop them. The virus doesn't target Ancients because they were the next best hope for stoping the Wraith if this virus failed. The Ancients were studying the virus to find a way to protect the humans. Eventually the Wraith ate their creators and began attacking atlantis.

Ok gonna revise this a little.

The Ancients awoke this other enemy first, they got into a war with this race. That race created the Wraith who could feed on the one thing that the Ancients would strive to protect, humans. The Ancients one weakness. Later, a peace was developed between this race and the Ancients and the fighting stopped. In this peace, the humans were to be left alone. As their only food source, the Wraith would have died out. To prevent their own demise, the Wraith begin feeding on humans again against their creators' wishes. The Wraith were too powerful for the other emeny and the Ancients were spread too thin protecting the humans. Then in a last ditch effort, the enemy creates this virus to eliminate the humans but not the Ancients since they have the technology to go head to head with the Wraith. The Ancients get pissed at this and begin studying the virus to find a cure. The Wraith consume their creators and move onto Atlantis.

h22chen
November 25th, 2004, 10:41 PM
Hm... just curious, it is said that the ones with the ancient gene does not get killed; but, Major Sheppard and some others in the Atlantis team also have the Ancient gene (so that they could use Ancient tech). The main question is, would they be killed off by the virus or not?

the dancer of spaz
November 26th, 2004, 12:10 AM
I'm of the general opinion that they either need to drop the character, or develope him, or move him to a secondary role, because right now, Ford is about as deep as a frizbie, and that's a shame.

I agree, MF, and I really, really, REALLY hope it doesn't come to that. Really. :(

Luckily he and Shep get along well. I liked it in the beginning when he had some funny lines... Alas, they apparently are all gone. :S

Zelenka? Hmmm... I'm trying to remember that bloke, and I can't. I'm still in the US waiting impatiently for the rest of the freakin' season to start up again. :P

Ugly Pig
November 26th, 2004, 07:16 AM
Hm... just curious, it is said that the ones with the ancient gene does not get killed; but, Major Sheppard and some others in the Atlantis team also have the Ancient gene (so that they could use Ancient tech). The main question is, would they be killed off by the virus or not?
They would not. That is why McKay survived.

Wass
November 26th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Mackay used genetic manipulation technology to change his gene to ancient gene.

h22chen
November 26th, 2004, 12:32 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering since Ford got scared by the virus but he have the ancient gene.

shaqarava
November 26th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Ok gonna revise this a little.

The Ancients awoke this other enemy first, they got into a war with this race. That race created the Wraith who could feed on the one thing that the Ancients would strive to protect, humans. The Ancients one weakness. Later, a peace was developed between this race and the Ancients and the fighting stopped. In this peace, the humans were to be left alone. As their only food source, the Wraith would have died out. To prevent their own demise, the Wraith begin feeding on humans again against their creators' wishes. The Wraith were too powerful for the other emeny and the Ancients were spread too thin protecting the humans. Then in a last ditch effort, the enemy creates this virus to eliminate the humans but not the Ancients since they have the technology to go head to head with the Wraith. The Ancients get pissed at this and begin studying the virus to find a cure. The Wraith consume their creators and move onto Atlantis.


These Wraith-creators could still be around somewhere not caring what the Wraith do. Sort of like watching TV with a cold beer whilst you let your dog run loose in the backyard, but when the times comes the Wraith will obey the orders of their creators, IF this theory is even true.

Also, humans are not the Wraith's only food source, they could feed on Ancients and their own kind, so it's possible they could feed on other humanoid life as well, if there are any more in Pegasus, or even other types of life like some sort of lobster-like-people, or insectoids etc.

Athenaktt
November 26th, 2004, 02:24 PM
Zelenka? Hmmm... I'm trying to remember that bloke, and I can't. I'm still in the US waiting impatiently for the rest of the freakin' season to start up again. :P

Silly Spaz...Zelenka was that other guy who was helping Mckay figure out a solution in "the Storm" in the beginning of the episode.

Athenaktt
November 26th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering since Ford got scared by the virus but he have the ancient gene.

I don't think Ford has the gene.

Lt. Aiden Ford
November 26th, 2004, 08:14 PM
Ford doesn't have the Ancient gene, but I think after "Hot Zone" he'll want one. How come Aiden is becoming a little jerk. He was so nice in the beginning! I don't like where this is heading; I can't see Aiden "beating up" someone like Zelenka. From what little has been established about him, it doesn't fit.

At least Carson finally used his first name. At least someone sees Aiden as more than just a gun with legs.

darkwarden
November 26th, 2004, 08:14 PM
I don't know if this has already been said, but I think the people who made the nano virus are in a similar situation to the Reetou from SG1. The Reetou had the plan of weakening the Goa'uld by eliminating possible hosts, the race that made the nano virus most likely decided to do a similar thing by killing off all the humans in the Pegasus galaxy in an effort to starve the Wraith to death.

Chances are though that when they tried to implement this plan the Ancients invervened and prevented them from releasing the virus and took a sample for themselves, possibly in an effort to develop a similar virus that targets Wraith.

My two cents.

shaqarava
November 27th, 2004, 06:03 AM
I don't know if this has already been said, but I think the people who made the nano virus are in a similar situation to the Reetou from SG1. The Reetou had the plan of weakening the Goa'uld by eliminating possible hosts, the race that made the nano virus most likely decided to do a similar thing by killing off all the humans in the Pegasus galaxy in an effort to starve the Wraith to death.


I doubt it was a plan to starve the Wraith to death, maybe wear them down, becuase they could feed on Ancients and amongst themselves, so it's possible the Wraith could feed on other humanoid, or non-humanoid, life as well.

h22chen
November 27th, 2004, 04:38 PM
Sorry, my mistake. I thought he was piloting one of the puddle jumpers during an episode.

Mio
November 27th, 2004, 05:03 PM
Sorry, my mistake. I thought he was piloting one of the puddle jumpers during an episode.
anyone can. It's just that the neural interface is easier to use.

ColdZero
November 27th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Everybody cannot pilot a puddle jumper. It requires the gene to respond to the pilot. If it wasn't a requirement, the Wraith would have just flown it out in "The Defiant One". Or they wouldn't have said something to the effect of "...a shot in the arm and a flying lesson and you think you can fly?" in the episode where they found the ZPM and those kids, I forget the name.

Gothann
November 27th, 2004, 06:44 PM
Everybody cannot pilot a puddle jumper. It requires the gene to respond to the pilot. If it wasn't a requirement, the Wraith would have just flown it out in "The Defiant One". Or they wouldn't have said something to the effect of "...a shot in the arm and a flying lesson and you think you can fly?" in the episode where they found the ZPM and those kids, I forget the name.
You mean "Children's End"? Yeh..

But you have to consider that the PJs, along with other ATA devices, are made for a certain gene. As for the ATA Gene Therapy, Beckett already said that it only holds and stays within about 48% of the people injected. Zelenka is one of those people who can't have the ATA gene hold, Ford might not either (to keep him from being the pilot...)

Now let's talk the virus for a sec. It is also certain for a FACT that the thing isn't Ancient, either, since McKay states that he's never seen that type of technology before. This rules out the Wraith and the Ancients from having made that nanovirus. This is obvious foreshadowing for a new, powerful, enemy. I just hope they can be downed by a P90, this time around.

ColdZero
November 27th, 2004, 07:11 PM
This is kinda off the wall, but what if it was a semi-advanced race that idolized the ancients. Maybe even thought of them as gods. They were more advanced than us but were still working on electronic devices. Seeing the Wraith give themselves and the Ancients so much trouble, maybe they decided to try and help the Ancients out by starving the humans before the wraith could get to them.

What nobody has figured out yet is the visions, why bother having them? They must mean something otherwise they wouldn't be the same in everybody. If the goal was to kill as many humans as possible, why create a common trend that people could track? People just up and dying would be much harder to start making connections about than people seeing the same thing and then up and dying.

asura
November 27th, 2004, 07:41 PM
well the visions where kind of like what the wraith make them see so that leads back to the theory of whoever made the virus made the wraith.

and just to tie up a lot speculation i think that energy eating dark cloud is an ascended form of the real enemy which is why the ancients left it in atlantis when they left as it could of called outhers of its kind to earth if they took it with them and also why the ancients dont permit the use of the ascended powers unless they have to for fear that it may attract the enemy?.

Taonas
November 27th, 2004, 07:51 PM
well the visions where kind of like what the wraith make them see so that leads back to the theory of whoever made the virus made the wraith.

and just to tie up a lot speculation i think that energy eating dark cloud is an ascended form of the real enemy which is why the ancients left it in atlantis when they left as it could of called outhers of its kind to earth if they took it with them and also why the ancients dont permit the use of the ascended powers unless they have to for fear that it may attract the enemy?.
Interesting theory... Could prove to be right... Would explain the annoyingness of the ascended ancients :p

AsgardCarnage
November 27th, 2004, 07:58 PM
but with that black clud thing, didn't they say they found ancient documents on it that said it was like an energy animal that had no higher brain functions other then must eat/survive? i dont remember it to well but that wasn't a theory it was something they found, information from the ancients them selfs.

its a good idea, would be cool, like the ancients have a greater reason not to medal with lower plain stuff.

asura
November 27th, 2004, 09:11 PM
if the black cloud had no higher brain functions then they would of caught it in the stasis trap again for example intelegance is a higher function without it you cannot learn and then you would be driven by instinct.
an energy eating clouds instinct would be to drain an energy source without even looking at it.
however when it went back to the stasis trap it recognized it and left which hints at intelegance.

ColdZero
November 28th, 2004, 03:35 AM
My dog can recognize when we're going to the vet, it doesn't mean she can defeat the Ancients or engineer another race :)

darkwarden
November 28th, 2004, 04:14 AM
My dog can recognize when we're going to the vet, it doesn't mean she can defeat the Ancients or engineer another race :)

ROFLMAO

asura
November 28th, 2004, 04:57 AM
thats because dogs do have intelegence.

several examples:
fish - no intelegance (2000 years and thay still hvent learnt to stay away from a worm floating in the water on a hook)
cats - intelegant also think their the center of the universe (you might think of them as the animal equivelent of the common teenager)
moths - no itelegance (oh look a bright light ZAP!)
dogs - intelegant on the same level as a one and a half year old child will pick something up show it to you and then do the same thing three minutes later.
and finally
the urban jungle ape (or to give it its scientific name georgeus bushus) - some intelegance (though not much) to find where this one is compaired to you get a copy of darwins theroy of evolution (which is completely correct) locate yourself (the one on the far right) then go back and couple and youll have it.

Major Tyler
November 28th, 2004, 06:52 PM
Uh...it's "intelligence"

Gothann
November 28th, 2004, 07:52 PM
In all honesty I seriously don't think that the creators of the nanovirus aren't the ones who were in league, creators of, or even knew of the Wraith, for that matter.

I believe that they are a totally different race which will BECOME in league with the Wraith. My reason for saying this? Those illusions were not the same as Wraith shadows. They have faces and have distinct expressions on them. The Wraith shadows only shine through someone's mind for an instant, but look more like a refraction of whatever thing the person is looking at. The illusions would block the view of the person.

ShadowMaat
November 29th, 2004, 08:51 AM
Dunno if this will help clarify matters any, but Martin Wood and PDL were at the L3 con in London this past weekend and said that there was a scene cut from Rising in which the holograph/viewing chamber actually "transported" the team back in time to see a Wraith hiveship hovering over the city. It was supposed to illustrate how the shields worked, but they had to find another way to do it due to time/budget contraints.

So my guess is, as uninteresting as it is, the Wraith really are the "dark enemy". Although there's always the chance that TPTB could later take advantage of the needed gap to make the Enemy something else. For all intents and purposes, though, the implication seems to be otherwise.

Wass
November 29th, 2004, 08:56 AM
Thanks for that Shadow that might clear some questions up I post earlier the link for interview with JF where he dropped a hint of bigger enemy don't know whether that is of any important plot twist in the future.

Major Tyler
November 29th, 2004, 09:01 AM
Martin Wood and PDL were at the L3 con in London this past weekend and said that there was a scene cut from Rising in which the holograph/viewing chamber actually "transported" the team back in time to see a Wraith hiveship hovering over the city.Any chance this scene will be added to the DVD set when it comes out?

Wass
November 29th, 2004, 09:09 AM
Well if we ask MGM nicely they might just do that.

Ugly Pig
November 29th, 2004, 10:38 AM
So my guess is, as uninteresting as it is, the Wraith really are the "dark enemy".
That was already confirmed in 'The Defiant One'. :p

Animaniac
November 29th, 2004, 11:59 PM
Why can't these nanovirus creators simply be renegade Ancients? Up until now, the Ancients have been shown to be a rather monolithic race that are perfectly moral and good. If this series is really about Atlantis and the Ancients, it's necessary to add depth to their kind. I really think the most logical conclusion, as the virus was stored in a self-contained suite on Atlantis, is that it was created by these hypothetical renegade Ancients. On top of that, who else would know about the Ancient marker gene?

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, this is a long thread and I haven't had a chance to read it completely.

darkwarden
November 30th, 2004, 01:46 AM
That is a good point, the Wraith don't know about the Ancient gene, and they are the arch enemy of the Ancients so thats a very possible explanation.

Jarnin
November 30th, 2004, 02:12 AM
Why can't these nanovirus creators simply be renegade Ancients?If it was a separate faction of ancients from the Atlantians, then they would have had to technologically diverged from the Atlantians in order for the technology to be unrecognizable to McKay. This means different architecture, different power sources, and so on.

The ancient technology found in Atlantis is roughly at the same level as the technology found in the ancient outpost in Antarctica. That means that their technology barely diverged in 5 million years, if at all.

The show implies that it is a race that we haven't met yet.

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 08:22 AM
I still strongly believe TPTB have started a perfect arc where by in the future for what ever reason they want to replace the wraith they can bring in new enemy that may well have create the virus that killed off the ancients. What would be interesting is if they turn out to be the furlings as mentioned on various threads.

Animaniac
November 30th, 2004, 09:25 AM
If it was a separate faction of ancients from the Atlantians, then they would have had to technologically diverged from the Atlantians in order for the technology to be unrecognizable to McKay. This means different architecture, different power sources, and so on.

The ancient technology found in Atlantis is roughly at the same level as the technology found in the ancient outpost in Antarctica. That means that their technology barely diverged in 5 million years, if at all.

The show implies that it is a race that we haven't met yet.

I believe he said that nanovirus itself was like nothing he had ever seen. I don't believe that anyone in either series has encountered Ancient nanoviral technology, so I think it's tough to assume that McKay would be able to recognize if it was of Ancient origin.

ColdZero
November 30th, 2004, 10:08 PM
Just watched Hot Zone again to confirm one of my suspicions. You do not see the stargate itself in the episode at all. Making it one of the few episodes in either series where the gate does not make an appearance.

keppiezbt
December 3rd, 2004, 12:31 PM
just saw this episode. it was really good. they episodes keep getting better and better the more we get into the season

Easter Lily
December 3rd, 2004, 05:33 PM
Where the heck is Teyla getting her dresses? Anybody ever wonders? I mean, the rest of the personnel are wearing uniforms, only Teyla runs around in a different dress everyday... And for every occasion... Not that I'm complaining...

Maybe she sews... it has been known to happen... ;)

Purpleyin
December 5th, 2004, 02:53 PM
Did anyone else spot the gaping technical plothole with the EMP pulse.
Nothing wrong using it to kill the nanovirus but powering down and closing the laptops etc is not going to suddenly make their harddrives not magnetic based and therefore unaffected.
Other than saving their lives it would have wiped (or atleast damaged) alot of the data on hardware like the laptops they brought from Earth.
But maybe they couldn't think of any other way to kill it off and hoped most people wouldn't notice.

Just a pedantic point that I noticed when watching episode, though it didn't spoil it. I really loved David Hewletts acting in the episode but was dissapointed that they didn't appear to even mention that McKay was going to die to those in the control centre, i.e. Weir. Although I'm a McWeir shipper so I'm bound to complain about lack of such interaction when one of them is faced in near certain doom.

ShadowMaat
December 5th, 2004, 03:06 PM
It also would have killed all their watches and whatnot, wouldn't it?

And I thought the point was that McKay WASN'T going to die. He had the gene, so he wouldn't be affected by the nanovirus.

Incidentally, what's the point of combining names? McWeir? That sounds so... cheesy. Like something you'd order at McDonalds. You don't see people running around calling themselves O'Carter shippers or being Fraisons, so why do it to the poor Atlanteans?

Easter Lily
December 5th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Did anyone else spot the gaping technical plothole with the EMP pulse.Nothing wrong using it to kill the nanovirus but powering down and closing the laptops etc is not going to suddenly make their harddrives not magnetic based and therefore unaffected.

I did wonder about that... but not being technically minded I couldn't be sure what would happen when an EMP pulse is released. I was a little surprised that only the only thing that fried was the nano virus... but well, it is sci-fi afterall.

An enjoyable episode all round, I thought... liked the tension between Weir and Sheppard. Wasn't our favourite Major a naughty boy :p but I think Weir was a little naive thinking that Sheppard would sit still like a well-trained German Shepherd for an extended period of time. This is afterall the Major that took on an entire Genii raiding party!!! ;)

darkwarden
December 5th, 2004, 03:55 PM
Isn't the control room of Atlantis shielded? After all people were safe from the storm's lightning if they were in the control room.

ShadowMaat
December 5th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Isn't the control room of Atlantis shielded?
Good thing every computer in Atlantis is in the control room, then. ;)

darkwarden
December 5th, 2004, 03:58 PM
Yeah.

Easter Lily
December 5th, 2004, 04:16 PM
Incidentally, what's the point of combining names? McWeir? That sounds so... cheesy. Like something you'd order at McDonalds. You don't see people running around calling themselves O'Carter shippers or being Fraisons, so why do it to the poor Atlanteans?

It's probably a new cheeseburger available only in Atlantis... A McWeir... lots of mustard, slices of pickled gerkin and double helpings of cheese.
;)

Purpleyin
December 8th, 2004, 06:40 AM
It also would have killed all their watches and whatnot, wouldn't it?

And I thought the point was that McKay WASN'T going to die. He had the gene, so he wouldn't be affected by the nanovirus.

Incidentally, what's the point of combining names? McWeir? That sounds so... cheesy. Like something you'd order at McDonalds. You don't see people running around calling themselves O'Carter shippers or being Fraisons, so why do it to the poor Atlanteans?
I figure it would kill digital watches but not sure about how analogue ones work and if they have any magnetic parts that could be damaged.

Also if he wasn't going to die because of having the gene then why did he still have visions. They explained visions were result of the swelling near the visual cortex which eventually ruptured killing people. So if he wasn't dying surely he wouldn't have swelling and therefore no visions, or atleast not much swelling which should have meant his didn't escalate like the others.

Well I'm not the one who coined the phrase. Despite the tendancy to think McDonalds and a corniness, it is quite catchy. It doesn't work well with most ships but somehow it does with McKay and Teyla... I've also heard Sheyla, McKeyla, McShep. It seems SGA names are oddly possible to do that with.

Purpleyin
December 8th, 2004, 06:43 AM
Isn't the control room of Atlantis shielded? After all people were safe from the storm's lightning if they were in the control room.
Shielded from the process they were using to harness electricity, however it didn't seem clear if they were shielded once the electricity powered the shield (which was temporary) or if it is a general thing.
Besides EMP is a little different form just electricity, can't assume shielding by whateer means it is (grounding?) was made to withstand magentic interferences which was what they were relying on.

Wass
December 9th, 2004, 08:14 AM
Me did a little bit of research on the subject and found out about the effects of EMP, now it is isn’t clear to what can survive and what can’t but it does give you an idea of how powerful and EMP wave can be.

“To be sure, the size of the signal from this process is not large, but systems connected to long lines (e.g., power lines, telephone wires, and tracking wire antennas) are at risk because of the large size of the induced current. The additive effects of the MHD-EMP can cause damage to unprotected civilian and military systems that depend on or use long-line cables. Small, isolated, systems tend to be unaffected.”


Here is link if you want to read the effects of EMP
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm

Purpleyin
December 9th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Me did a little bit of research on the subject and found out about the effects of EMP, now it is isn’t clear to what can survive and what can’t but it does give you an idea of how powerful and EMP wave can be.

“To be sure, the size of the signal from this process is not large, but systems connected to long lines (e.g., power lines, telephone wires, and tracking wire antennas) are at risk because of the large size of the induced current. The additive effects of the MHD-EMP can cause damage to unprotected civilian and military systems that depend on or use long-line cables. Small, isolated, systems tend to be unaffected.”


Here is link if you want to read the effects of EMP
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm

So is it unclear what effects a nuclear blasts EMP would have on computer equipment? From what it says it sounds like the EMP from the nuke is somehow different from having EMP making machine next to laptop. Is it just to do with blast radius and EMP weakening the further away? It'd be great to know if anyone finds out any answers, this is bugging me.

Brendan
December 10th, 2004, 07:44 PM
My bad, I got the wrong episode. :D

EDIT: I originally posted a repsonse here but realized soon after it was for the wrong episode.

GatetheWay
December 10th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Also if he wasn't going to die because of having the gene then why did he still have visions. They explained visions were result of the swelling near the visual cortex which eventually ruptured killing people. So if he wasn't dying surely he wouldn't have swelling and therefore no visions, or atleast not much swelling which should have meant his didn't escalate like the others.

Yeah, thats my question: If he was going to be okay because of the gene, then why did Mckay start seeing things? Is this a plot hole or is there a reason?

Major Tyler
December 10th, 2004, 11:56 PM
Yeah, thats my question: If he was going to be okay because of the gene, then why did Mckay start seeing things? Is this a plot hole or is there a reason?I think it was because Rodney is not an Ancient. He has the Ancient gene artificially imposed on him, which was enough to keep the nanobots from killing him, but not enough to prevent him from having any symptoms.

GatetheWay
December 11th, 2004, 09:49 AM
I think it was because Rodney is not an Ancient. He has the Ancient gene artificially imposed on him, which was enough to keep the nanobots from killing him, but not enough to prevent him from having any symptoms.

Yeah, but Purpleyin said (and the episode confirms it) that the visions were being caused by the swelling in the visual cortex and the swelling resulted in the death of the victim. Or was that what they thought in the begining and change their assesment later. Can't remember.

Edit: Spelling mistakes

Lt. Aiden Ford
December 11th, 2004, 10:28 AM
Yeah, but Purpleyin said that the visions were being caused by the swelling in the visual cortex and the swelling resulted in the death of the victim.They thought that initially, but if that were the case the visions would be random and unique to each person. Once it became clear that all the visions were the same, they determined that there must be another, more deliberate, cause.

DownFallAngel
January 4th, 2005, 07:06 PM
I read through most of the posts, didn't see this so just wanted to say that this title is a culture reference to the book entitled Hot Zone. The book deals with an outbreak of the Ebola virus, and this deals with the outbreak of a nano-virus or something. Just pointing out the connection.

michelleb
January 11th, 2005, 01:48 PM
I haven't finished watching this yet, but i just want to say that David Hewlett is fantastic in this. That moment, where he's telling Beckett what to say to his sister is so moving and touching. in fact, he's fantastic all the way through.

this is a great episode

Thor's Gunner
January 11th, 2005, 01:59 PM
He did a good job in the episode, quite a few of the unknown characters were very good in that eisode. I was glad to see the return of that English guy from the control room. Good episode and i think this may set the way for one of Atlantis' new enemies, as lots of people have been saying they cant see much future for the wraith so maybe we are about to see a new enemy arrive.

Whistler
January 11th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Well I've just finished watching this, now I thought EMP was meant to totally wipe technology, not "if you turn off your laptops they will be OK", and it also raises the question of what exactly is Aincient technology powered by? I know crystals, but what's in 'em?

astronomicalchick
January 11th, 2005, 02:07 PM
I haven't finished watching this yet, but i just want to say that David Hewlett is fantastic in this. That moment, where he's telling Beckett what to say to his sister is so moving and touching. in fact, he's fantastic all the way through.

this is a great episode

I agree! McKay is just great! I can't believe how much I love him. I think he might be my favourite character now that Sheppard has been extremely disrespectful to Weir.

Thor's Gunner
January 11th, 2005, 02:08 PM
WellI've just finished watching this, now I thought EMP was meant to totally wipe technology, not "if you turn off your laptops they will be OK", and it also raises the question of what exactly is Aincient technology powered by? I know crystals, but what's in 'em?
I dont think anyone knows the answer to that really. But also the question arises why just wipe out humanity, why not ancients as well? It doesnt make sense, but i suppose they've played it well leaving us on a cliff hanger.

And your right it is supposed to wipe out technology such as laptops, but no power grids or whatnot, still it is science fiction so not everythings going to be authentic.

lord-anubis
January 11th, 2005, 02:11 PM
i loved this ep when i first heard about it i thought i would suck. my fav part is when mckay thinks he is going to die and he say. tell his sis that he died saveing kids and tell every one he had a plan for unifying but the notes were lost when he die. than i for got his name but he said when you were saveing the kids. for some reason mackay is funny when he thinks he is going to die

Thor's Gunner
January 11th, 2005, 02:16 PM
i loved this ep when i first heard about it i thought i would suck. my fav part is when mckay thinks he is going to die and he say. tell his sis that he died saveing kids and tell every one he had a plan for unifying but the notes were lost when he die. than i for got his name but he said when you were saveing the kids. for some reason mackay is funny when he thinks he is going to die
That is definitly true, Mckey is very funny, especially when he thinks he's going to die and thats what only every other episode.

Crazedwraith
January 11th, 2005, 02:20 PM
Nice episode. Very good alround. Is it just my or are alot more people we only see this one episode getting killed this half as opposed to the 1st? Also to you think TPTB are keeping records of how many people they said went/ how many got killed? I',m think like ST:VGR where they stated crew figures that didn't jive with no. of deaths and previous figures. :D (lets not get in to the shuttelcraft issue)

aAnubiSs
January 11th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Crystals can easily(in the future) be used to store data, and then read it with a laser, it's researched quite alot atm. Crystals can store so much more information then our current magnetic ways.

Personally I think the Ancients designed the nano-virus as a last resort. They'd release it on all planets and those who understood what it was and were able to disable it would also be able to fight the Wraith and therefore weaken them. The rest, well they were primitive and would only be food.

JackDaniels
January 11th, 2005, 03:22 PM
I liked this episode, though a couple of things are still bugging me.

1. it seems so typical that the ancient gene protects people.
2. Elizabeth is too nice for her own good, all she didi was scowl at Shephard's actions
3. We all know Ford doesn't get much to do anyway, but he was just plain annoying for most of that!

I do believe apart from that it was a solid episode, though some of the camera work did seem a little shaky.
The Teyla/John fight scenes were cool and a light relief for what was about to happen.
Also, the look on Teyla's face when that girl was going nuts and then wehn her clothing was ripped was just sheer class!

Looking forward to 'Before I sleep' as I've felt Elizabeth has been underused a little of late, but sure it'll be good. Liked SG-1 better this week, though never get tired of Dr Beckett, McKay and Shephard!

JackDaniels
January 11th, 2005, 03:23 PM
Also, forgot to add that I can't wait to see who this new enemy is. Is this Atlantis' aschen?

Ancients Rising
January 11th, 2005, 04:19 PM
Great ep. Great great ep :D

Shep's effective insubordination of Weir was a little odd, but added to the whole ep.

Next week it's Sanctuary....I think I'm gonna mess myself :p

lord-anubis
January 11th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Crystals can easily(in the future) be used to store data, and then read it with a laser, it's researched quite alot atm. Crystals can store so much more information then our current magnetic ways.

Personally I think the Ancients designed the nano-virus as a last resort. They'd release it on all planets and those who understood what it was and were able to disable it would also be able to fight the Wraith and therefore weaken them. The rest, well they were primitive and would only be food.

i don't think the ancients made the nano-virus. i think it was just one ancient beascue all the info about the nanp-virus was only in that lab. he was pobly breaking the rlues by makeing it.

Blue Banrigh
January 12th, 2005, 02:48 AM
For some reason I keep thinking it's the Genii. No evidence, just a sneaking suspicion.

They said they were once a great confederation, prehaps before the Wraith destroyed most of their civilization they were a conquering race. Used the virus as a weapon.

It would be interesting, the Genii could be the first major enemy in Stargate that is completely human (I think, I don't really recall any other humans who really opposded them that weren't controlled by a snake). Adds a moral issue.

Just a random thought/speculation. I've only watched up to 'Before I Sleep', so am not privy to anything that might have happened in 'The Brotherhood'.

Anubis
January 12th, 2005, 08:05 AM
First thought of the virus -- the Genii. :P Simply because they're Genii. ;)

It was good seeing how everyone was waiting for Mckay to die -- then he said I'm still here, and didn't really care why he wasn't dead, basically.

I like the scenes at the beginning between Sheppard and Teyla, with the martial arts (?) practice. :P Teyla looked pretty dam hot in that outfit. ;) Poor Sheppard, got beaten there -- though I liked his comments on "If it was a fight, I'd have just shot you."

Good to see a bit of Carson back again too. :)

mancslad08
January 12th, 2005, 09:14 AM
I loved this episode.

We all knew that they weren't going to kill any of the main characters, but still..it was some nice suspense.

Oh and I think that possibily the Replicators made that Nanovirus.

If not them then it was the Ancients. Notice how at the end when McKay says, "Whoever did it, I hope they aren't around anymore.." then the camera cuts to Shepperd who is the closest thing to a living Ancient you can get without being one...

Oh and yeah Teyla was looking great in this episode. Although they had to ruin it and put her in that baggy clunky hazmat suit.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with what you said.

No the replicators didn't make the nanovirus! For one, they weren't around at the time of the Ancients, as well as not even being in the Pegasus galaxy. Secondly, ignoring all that, why would they create a virus that would kill humans? All they care about is replicating.

I also think it's pretty clear the Ancients didn't build them (as they said numerous times in the episode itself). The final shot of Shappard had NOTHING to do with it. SG-1 episodes end very often on Jack's face, just because he's the main character.

mancslad08
January 12th, 2005, 10:31 AM
Ok gonna revise this a little.

The Ancients awoke this other enemy first, they got into a war with this race. That race created the Wraith who could feed on the one thing that the Ancients would strive to protect, humans. The Ancients one weakness. Later, a peace was developed between this race and the Ancients and the fighting stopped. In this peace, the humans were to be left alone. As their only food source, the Wraith would have died out. To prevent their own demise, the Wraith begin feeding on humans again against their creators' wishes. The Wraith were too powerful for the other emeny and the Ancients were spread too thin protecting the humans. Then in a last ditch effort, the enemy creates this virus to eliminate the humans but not the Ancients since they have the technology to go head to head with the Wraith. The Ancients get pissed at this and begin studying the virus to find a cure. The Wraith consume their creators and move onto Atlantis.
That's a brilliant idea!! I'm not too taken with the wraith to be honest

Elite Anubis Guard
January 12th, 2005, 01:25 PM
nice episode, some great developement in some of the characters and one hell of a set up for furture baddies!

Crazedwraith
January 12th, 2005, 01:34 PM
I just hope TPTB don't chicken out and all the insubordintion fears worries and all forgetto next week and everything fine and dandy.

I alos don't get why it's called Hot Zone.

Purpleyin
January 12th, 2005, 02:28 PM
I just hope TPTB don't chicken out and all the insubordintion fears worries and all forgetto next week and everything fine and dandy.

I alos don't get why it's called Hot Zone.

Because people got hot under the collar, confined and fearful?
I guess its a quesiton for the producers etc but form the title and the initial spoilers I thought it would be something quite different, more like the name seems to me but it wasn't, though I plan to write a fic of same title that has what I thought it might be in a way.

The episode was a great one though regardless of difficult to explain title.

aAnubiSs
January 12th, 2005, 02:31 PM
insubordintion? Afaik the only military there who showed any emotion were Ford(30min from dying) and Sheppard(locked in, and he is the ranking military officier)

Easter Lily
January 12th, 2005, 02:47 PM
Because people got hot under the collar, confined and fearful?
I guess its a quesiton for the producers etc but form the title and the initial spoilers I thought it would be something quite different, more like the name seems to me but it wasn't, though I plan to write a fic of same title that has what I thought it might be in a way.

The episode was a great one though regardless of difficult to explain title.
If you look at post number 160, the poster explains the origins of the title... apparently it is based on a book about the Ebola virus.

Mjolnir
January 12th, 2005, 03:24 PM
As far as I am concerned no one during hot zone gave any reason why it couldn’t have been the Ancients who developed the nano-virus. I think it would make sense if they did, because it would have reduced the amount of people the Wraith could feed on and so made them weaker and easier for the Ancients to fight. I reckon that Ancients were generally good but it doesn't mean they all are, just look at Humans not all of us are very nice people. Perhaps some rogue Ancient scientist developed it. The aspect of the nano-virus I find most interesting is the hallucination it causes, what’s the point in it? Wouldn’t be more effective if the virus simply just caused the victim to fall over and die without any warning?
Also the fact it doesn’t kill Ancients, I mean the Wraith can feed on Ancients as well as Humans so why would an alien race create the nano-virus to just kill Humans when there would still be Ancients around to feed on, it would make more sense if the Ancients or at least an Ancient had developed the nano-virus.

PeeJ
January 12th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Maybe the virus was ment for the ancients, just a failed attempt.

Perhaps it didn't look for the aincient gene and then decide not to kill the victim. Genes generally have a purpose, what if the aincient gene is what made the aincients capable of healing as opposed to being there just as an id card to let them use certain systems. Humans with the gene don't have the knowlege of how to harness it (except jack AFTER he got the aincient database the second time) and thus it only acts automatically to immediate life threatening situations e.g. this nano virus. This would explain why mckay still got the visions, because up untill the point that it became life threatening the gene didn't respond to it.

lord-anubis
January 12th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Maybe the virus was ment for the wraith but i was not done yet or it was made by some rogue Ancient scientist like some has said

Matt G
January 14th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Hmmm...

1. I've only read the transcript for this ep and I've got a feeling that this ep might come accross better after I catch it on screen.

2. Overall it did come accross as a bit horror-movie ish.

3. The Sheppard-Bates-Weir exchange came across well though.

4. Shep's got a point - why DOES she need to teach him that stick fighting thing?

NotANumber
January 14th, 2005, 09:40 PM
4. Shep's got a point - why DOES she need to teach him that stick fighting thing?
Yeah, it's not like to see that much stick-fighting in the series. I'm sure the Wraith would relish the opportunity of being in a hand-to-hand situation (or should that be hand-to-chest?)

It was probably just an excuse to have Teyla in something skimpy, and as well as that Sheppard's crack about shooting her was funny.

Platschu
January 15th, 2005, 05:06 AM
What was the name of the doctor, who exanined the corpses? Dr.Bíró? Becaise this is a Hungarian profession, which means "judge". I was so proud of her, because I write from there. :D

TST
January 15th, 2005, 01:52 PM
I don't think the Ancients designed the virus. My theory is that whoever created the nanovirus intended to kill the Ancients with it. The Ancients isolated the virus for study, which is why it's in the city; I don't think that if us humans could deal with it that it would pose the Ancients much of a problem :rolleyes:
The reason the Ancient gene protects people would be because the virus isn't the original one designed to kill Ancients. The Ancients took that and modified it so that those with the gene, i.e. everyone in Atlantis presumably, wouldn't be affected. A precaution, so that they could therefore study it to their hearts content without risk of nasty death. There was no reason to make it harmless to humans, and to do so would probably require more significant alterations making it unworthy of study...
No idea who did create it though.

GatetheWay
January 15th, 2005, 05:04 PM
I don't think the Ancients designed the virus. My theory is that whoever created the nanovirus intended to kill the Ancients with it. The Ancients isolated the virus for study, which is why it's in the city; I don't think that if us humans could deal with it that it would pose the Ancients much of a problem :rolleyes:
The reason the Ancient gene protects people would be because the virus isn't the original one designed to kill Ancients. The Ancients took that and modified it so that those with the gene, i.e. everyone in Atlantis presumably, wouldn't be affected. A precaution, so that they could therefore study it to their hearts content without risk of nasty death. There was no reason to make it harmless to humans, and to do so would probably require more significant alterations making it unworthy of study...
No idea who did create it though.

But if they modified it so it wouldn't hurt them then why did the city react to it and quarantine everyone? Why would they bother to program the city to respond to the virus unless there were humans to protect?

Purpleyin
January 16th, 2005, 06:13 AM
But if they modified it so it wouldn't hurt them then why did the city react to it and quarantine everyone? Why would they bother to program the city to respond to the virus unless there were humans to protect?

Maybe it's because the city can detect there are humans there to protect from it. Or maybe, since it never got addressed, it doesn't affect artificial ATA induced humans but does affect those with ATA naturally and humans generally. I couldn't think of any reason why it could work like that but it never got to a point where they had someone aobut to die who had natural ATA, so it was never talked of but still might be possible.

Quinn Mallory
January 17th, 2005, 05:39 AM
Maybe it's because the city can detect there are humans there to protect from it. Or maybe, since it never got addressed, it doesn't affect artificial ATA induced humans but does affect those with ATA naturally and humans generally. I couldn't think of any reason why it could work like that but it never got to a point where they had someone aobut to die who had natural ATA, so it was never talked of but still might be possible.

I like the idea that maybe it is the ATA that prevents one from being affected from the Virus rather than the actual Ancient gene. That makes more sense why to explain why Atlantis quarantined automatically.

Now I do have 2 questions for everyone to discuss that came from watching this episode (sorry about not using spoiler alerts and stuff since I'm (obviously) a pretty new poster here).

1.) Why hasn't the gene therapy been tried on everyone? Ford never had it as explained in the episode and he can easily benefit if the therapy is successful by having the ability to pilot a puddle jumper (what would happen if the only capable pilot(s) on a mission is killed...SPOILER...can they really just used the hand of a dead guy as implied in The Defiant One?)

I would think that attempting the gene therapy on everyone would be a priority task. The only reason that I can think off is that maybe Beckett is still refining the process and they are putting it off until then. From this episode, we know that only 1/3 of the people in Atlantis does not have gene therapy (and probably also include the number of people who does not have the Ancient gene to start with) since that's the amount Sheppard said would die if they don't do anything. So the fact that the first four people infected all didn't have the gene is (1/3)^4=1.2% speaking of statistical anomaly (refering back to the banter at the beginning of the show). This calculation support the theory that it is the ATA rather than the Ancient gene that give one immunity to the virus since a large percentage of the people in Atlantis are selected for the mission b/c they have the Ancinet gene (so only few people have the ATA).

2.) I might be nitpicking here but I don't see why the EMP would destroy the nannite but not affect the Ancient technology. For all we know the nannites might had been created with the similar technology that does not have electronics (no idea what this would be but I guess it's established in the show that they exist...e.g. Ancient computers that controlled Atlantis).

So just some fruits for thoughts. Hopefully enough people will keep this discussion going until most of the other US viewer (without good internet connections) get to see this episode in a month of so.

Q

===================================================
Time to return to my physics lab and work on my anti gravity device (ok so that last statement is only half true).

Matt G
January 19th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Caught this ep on screen. Only thing I have to add is that it was Sheppard's weakest ep so far!

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 06:07 PM
OOooooo, SCIFI frakked up big time. Instead of the teaser, we got a black screen. Tsk tsk tsk.

To fill in... McKay, Zelenka and the other geeks were going through an unexplored part of the city and mocking babysitter Ford about not knowing his prime numbers. They get a wild radio report from one of the other scientists claiming they're under attack. Everyone rushes there to find the two scientists dead.

Er... recalling from memory, I think that's basically what happened.

ETA: I think McKay, Zelenka and Ford found an Ancient virus lab. Or is that later? Must be some reason to think it's a biological agent...

Skydiver
February 4th, 2005, 06:08 PM
just a note, before anyone asks, yes the first 2 minutes of the first airing of atlantis tonight did not air. Scifi messed up and didn't roll the show. We got 2 minutes of black before they rolled a break

i have no idea about the second airing, but all of the first airing was effected

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Starts out with McKay and a full science team and a military team in a flooded area of the city, then, they recieve a message from two scientists who are being "attacked" by something. When they arrive, one is dead and the other is in shock. After a few moments, the other scientist dies in Zelenka's arms of what seems to be hallucinations.
After that, McKay orders everyone to stay where they are, for fear that they are infected, and contacts Weir telling her of the situation.
OK, that's a better synopsis. Thankies. :D

Bobthespirit
February 4th, 2005, 06:20 PM
Hmm...one comment.

One big problem with Voyager looks to be in danger of being repeated in Atlantis.

You see...Voyager had a limited number of crewmembers that could not be replenished. Yet, when one died, it didn't seem to reduce the number of crew on board.

I hope in this show the producers are trying to maintain this type of continuity. That they have a number which represents the total number of people there, adn they actually reduce it every time someone dies.

CKO
February 4th, 2005, 06:26 PM
oh god i hope its only the first airing... cuz i was like... frell... i need it... oh god the evil black screen of death.... hopefully the second showin will be okay... and im taping eps too so im jsut a lil annoyed

Quinn Mallory
February 4th, 2005, 06:41 PM
Hmm...one comment.

One big problem with Voyager looks to be in danger of being repeated in Atlantis.

You see...Voyager had a limited number of crewmembers that could not be replenished. Yet, when one died, it didn't seem to reduce the number of crew on board.

I hope in this show the producers are trying to maintain this type of continuity. That they have a number which represents the total number of people there, adn they actually reduce it every time someone dies.

Very minor spoiler for Letters from Pegasus about the minor characters

All the minor characters who died were mentioned and remembered in this episode. They are definitely not forgotten (not in this season anyway).

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 4th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Yes, the evil black screen of death had me chucking things at my TV. But aside from that, what an awesome ep!! I love how Atlantis gets better with every ep. Weir's and Sheppard's interaction, Rodney showing a new level when he thought he was dead without losing his Rodneyness, the special effects, and "get away from the nuclear explosion, that's good advice." My only issue was Teyla getting infected a whole 2 seconds before they cured the virus seemed a little odd. Maybe that'll show up later.

greytop
February 4th, 2005, 07:06 PM
It was a good episode and I thought it should be air after the Eye, since they were checking out the flood part of the city.

Thanks for the telling what was in the first two minutes of the show, Shadow. So really we didn't miss too much of it.

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 07:10 PM
I still say that we're going to discover the Ancients/Lanteans aren't as benevolent as we think. Rodney gets too defensive about the possibility of it being them, meaning he thinks there's a good chance it's true. :D

Either that or we're gonna run into someone that'll make the wraith look like pansies. *blink* Well, OK, the wraith already look like pansies, but maybe we'll run into an enemy who's actually scary! And threatening! Wow, what a concept... :P

Bobthespirit
February 4th, 2005, 07:13 PM
This was a pretty good episode, although I wish Weir would be firmer with Sheppard about blatant insubordination.

And I hope the producers are keeping a running tally of dead people so the number of crew actually goes down when somebody dies.

What I really like about this episode is that it opens up an interesting question of who made the virus. My first instinct says...the ancients. Maybe it was intended to fight the wraithe, who are actually quite similar to humans because they are an offspring of ancients. In fact, it'd be right along line with scifi cliches if some ancient scientist discovered a way to extend his own life by feeding off others, which turned them into the wraithe.

Then again, most of you people for some mind boggling reason seek out as many spoilers as soon as possible, and probably already know whether I'm right or wrong. (I try to avoid all spoilers of any sort, even to the point of trying to avoid episode trailers)

Merlin7
February 4th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Shep and Teyla fighting >TOo cute and love how he admits she can kick his butt. But he just seems so...wired.
Interesting that he forgot his radio. Doesn't seem Shep like.

I loved his talk with Weir. I actually saw BOTH their points. I love that Joe made me feel Shep's anxiety and I was with him. What could it hurt.

Rodney believes someone should go after that Peterson. Now see..THIS is part of WHY I think Shep was right to do what he did. He was far enough away from the virus, since they didn't know he was safe with the gene, to get the suit and help. Rodney said someone needed to get the guy. I love the McShep! LOL

Know what? I felt for Liz but the person I would have really been pissed at was BATES! He made the deciding move. Yes..Shep was countermining Liz in front of Bates...but I had thought, given the Recaps that it was in front of everyone. Really it was bates and Grodin and Teyla that heard it.

And I think it's an interesting BATES conflict. Liz put him in power of head of security. He knocks heads with Shep all the time. But he OBEYED Shep. I don't think it's just out of respect for Chain of command. I think BATES felt it was the right thing to do. I think he wanted PETERSON stopped because he KNEW they couldn't stop him with doors and stuff from where they were. So SHEP was his chance to stay safe. I think that's neat.

I liked Teyla calling Shep on what he did. He was RIGHT about what Liz does. And it was nice that Teyla let him know just how alike he and Liz are. LOL

God Joe does anger/heated well.

And he looked good.

I understand Lizzie is in a snit..But I wanted to smack her. I still say had she delivered the suit to him...blah blah. Some have argued WEIR was better informed but..I'm sorry. Given how the ep was written RODNEY is the expert <I liked his dying moment of NOT DYING> but was peeved that it made Beckett out to be an idiot. Beckett discovered the ATA gene and is able to inject it into people. HELLO! Smart man. But he was the resident idiot during this crisis. Now if SUPER RODNEY Thinks someone should have gone after PETERSON..then who is Weir or anyone else to argue? Certainly not me.

I do see her point, but she was overly witchy. And I adore the conflict. YES! I really do.

And I actually love that JOHN figures out how to save them then LITERALLY does save all their butts at the risk of his own life. She can witch about it all she likes..but HER way...those without the gene would have DIED! John fixed his mistake. Did she fix hers??


Weir was pissy with Rodney too though. LOL

I loved the end. The concern. It was a good issue to see them deal with. I don't think he trusted her judgement. But this ep made me realize something, more than I had before. I think even WEIR knows that John is the heart/passion of Atlantis. She's the soul and Rodney is the brains so to speak. But John is the heart. Weir was willing to let people die. Now....John put people at risk but then put himself at risk to save them. I dont' think he was being selfish like a few people stated when it aired back when. He wanted to save them in the control area. He made a bad choice...but so did she. And it took RODNEY to convince her John was right. But it was JOHN who was the first to say it's worth the Risk and in the end the RISK was his.

I like how he blew off what he had done at first but got defensive when she laid into him.

Typical of the difference not so much of military and civilian but male and female. It happened. It was over. Happy ending. Let it go. But she wouldn't. Saw her point . Saw his. She was right to talk about it though.

I have to admit...I would have done what Shep did. That would have been my first instinct. In part because Rodney thought it was the right thing to do too. And I still love the BATES factor. Yes I do! LOL

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 07:30 PM
Personally, I thought Bates obeyed Shep because Shep is the ranking military officer and he felt he HAD to obey. That, IMO, is why he apologised to Weir.

I think Weir was completely right. Shep screwed up and screwed up big time. He didn't even seem willing to consider the possibility that she might have a point. He was so consumed by his own self-righteousness that he ignored everything and everyone else. Bad Shep. :P He came through in the end, yes, but he made it more difficult for everyone in the process.

I felt that Weir acted appropriately in all instances, although personally I would have been a lot harder on Shep. A LOT harder. I admit that Shep isn't one of my favorite characters, but I like him well enough most of the time. However, in this ep and Sanctuary, I actually hated him. *grinds teeth* The cocky boyish act doesn't play well for me, particularly in this ep.

Merlin7
February 4th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Personally, I thought Bates obeyed Shep because Shep is the ranking military officer and he felt he HAD to obey. That, IMO, is why he apologised to Weir.

I think Weir was completely right. Shep screwed up and screwed up big time. He didn't even seem willing to consider the possibility that she might have a point. He was so consumed by his own self-righteousness that he ignored everything and everyone else. Bad Shep. :P He came through in the end, yes, but he made it more difficult for everyone in the process.

I felt that Weir acted appropriately in all instances, although personally I would have been a lot harder on Shep. A LOT harder. I admit that Shep isn't one of my favorite characters, but I like him well enough most of the time. However, in this ep and Sanctuary, I actually hated him. *grinds teeth* The cocky boyish act doesn't play well for me, particularly in this ep.


Weir made her OWN mistakes and was willing to risk alot of lives. Shep owned up to his mistake and risked HIS life to save EVERYONE. And he was one of the people who was safe from the virus.

So I respectfully disagree with you. He wasn't consumed with selfrighteousness. Not for nothing but Shep isn't about being full of himself or selfish. This is the guy who puts his life on the line for others ALL THE TIME. THe guy who's first at the side of a downed colleague. The guy who gives credit where credit is due. Who thanks people who save HIS butt.

And if you think about it...that you don't like Shep much. That's gonna color your perspective. Cause I've noticed you are kinda all about the ROdney love. Which is cool. But I'm on the other side of that fence.

Oh..wanted to add about Bates. Yeah..he apologized but I still firmly believe he felt Shep was the only chance they had to stop Peterson. **Because WHEN has Bates EVER had a problem disagreeing with Shep? He didn't argue the point at all. And when he feels Shep is wrong? He points it out. No problem. But..Just like Rodney stated straight out...Someone had to go after him and...think about it. THAT was when Shep was ready to go out the door .Because RODNEY said so. Basically..>Rodney and Shep were in synch the whole ep.

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 07:56 PM
And if you think about it...that you don't like Shep much. That's gonna color your perspective. Cause I've noticed you are kinda all about the ROdney love. Which is cool. But I'm on the other side of that fence.
I am going to step away from this thread, now. I don't appreciate being told what I've already said myself, I don't like being pandered to and I loathe the condescension that I can't like more than one character.

You see it your way. I see it mine. End of discussion.

defina91rvc
February 4th, 2005, 08:14 PM
yeah, i was mad that the first 2 minutes were black. and there was that SciFi logo sitting in the the corner taunting me. anyway, Mckay is 0-2 using electromagnetic generators.

-its strange that when u think about it, both eps where mckay tries an EMP pulse end up in something exploding in space. (redemption s6)

UnderT
February 4th, 2005, 09:14 PM
This was a good episode, not great but good.

Who do you think created this Nano-Virus, I think it is the Ancients. Why else would it not respond to those with the Ancient Gene?

Madeleine
February 4th, 2005, 10:44 PM
That's gonna color your perspective. ... But I'm on the other side of that fence.

What colour is it on your side of the fence? :p

From my position on top of the fence ;) I thought Shep was totally in the wrong. To fail to follow orders in an emergency (non-military) situation when the decision had been made independantly of him and by minds with more of the pertinent info than he had himself; to unilaterally throw out the safety plan and do his own thing was really bad of him.

Once it's been established that Shep's not following the plan that everyone else is following, how can there be a plan at all? Weir and the scientists were trying to work stuff out, but in effect they now had to run everything by Shepherd, and they couldn't be sure that anything they wanted to do would be implemented because if Shep could commandeer the entire military contingent and give them contradicting instructions...

Merlin7
February 4th, 2005, 10:57 PM
What colour is it on your side of the fence? :p

From my position on top of the fence ;) I thought Shep was totally in the wrong. To fail to follow orders in an emergency (non-military) situation when the decision had been made independantly of him and by minds with more of the pertinent info than he had himself; to unilaterally throw out the safety plan and do his own thing was really bad of him.

Once it's been established that Shep's not following the plan that everyone else is following, how can there be a plan at all? Weir and the scientists were trying to work stuff out, but in effect they now had to run everything by Shepherd, and they couldn't be sure that anything they wanted to do would be implemented because if Shep could commandeer the entire military contingent and give them contradicting instructions...

Firstly. Rodney didn't run anything by Sheppard. Rodney..who was so running the show. Rodney who said someone needed to go after Peterson. Rodney who asked for Shep's help. Rodney who agreed with Shep that the generator idea was good and that it was worth the risk and the time was NOW. Weir was deferring to Rodney in all things.

Actually....Shep broke out AFTER Rodney said someone had to go after PETERSON. RODNEY SAID. John followed ROdney for the most part and Rodney agreed with John's choices as well. Rodney was running the SHOW. Period. OVer Beckett the DoCTOR even.

And I still, firmly, believe that Bates opened that door because he agreed with Rodney. Someone had to stop Peterson. It was proven they could NOT stop him from the control area and Peterson would have reached them.

Weir wasn't trying to do much. It was really Rodney telling everyone what to do and Shep listened to Rodney. I was with Rodney and Shep on this one. Weir, if the choice had been hers and they had simply listened in the end, lots of people, including Zalenka and Ford, would have died.

Remember, Rodney kept agreeing with Shep too. So he wasn't listening to Lizzie either. Bottom line. RODNEY was calling the shots and even BECKETT and WEIR were following HIS orders. And HE said someone had to go after Peterson and THAT is when Shep decided to leave. He wanted to leave right away but he LISTENED to Weir and stayed put UNTIL Rodney said what HE said. And Rodney was totally calling the shots and he was totally right. And he agreed with Shep.

The Liz and Shep thing? Had to happen at some point. Like I said. They BOTH made mistakes and had he listened he wouldn't have gotten the messhall infected and he GOT her point on that. But..bottom line. Had he stayed locked in...and Lizzie got her way. More people would have died. Peterson was going to die anyway. John didn't get anyone else killed. And he fixed his mistake.

I expect more conflicts like this with Shep and Weir. I like them. They're both human and this is realistic and I could see BOTH their POV's. But I still would have done what Shep did. Listen to Rodney.

LoneStar1836
February 4th, 2005, 11:26 PM
BTW, I’ve only read 30 or so posts back, and not the whole thread yet.

Another great episode, especially for McKay. Has he had a bad episode yet? :P Even the stick fighting scene was in good taste, imo. Poor Teyla. That’s about all she seems good for. Though, she actually had some good dialogue tonight. Maybe not a lot, but it’s better than nothing. And poor Ford getting picked on by the “nerds” cause he couldn’t even correctly guess between prime and not a prime. :D As always, I loved Dr. Zelenka and Dr. Beckett. It’s always nice when they write them into an episode.

Okay, Shep was being bullheaded in this one, but I think he did the right thing in going after Peterson. He may be in command of the military aspect, but Weir is in command of the entire expedition, and if she had been compromised and died, she would have been the greater loss. Shep is expendable. For me he’s not ;), but in the overall scheme he is because there are other officers to take his place. Peterson was headed strait for the command section and didn’t seem too intent on stopping no matter what, imo. The only hope was for him to die before he reached Weir and crew. Now I’m guessing the city would have gone into lockdown before he actually got to Weir, but no one knew the city would do this.

I see Shep’s decision to defy Weir as an attempt to save the leader of the expedition, despite the danger to himself. Yeah, he blundered and Peterson got away by accident, but what was the alternative? He do nothing, and Weir possibly become compromised. As soon as Shep got to Peterson, Weir should have ordered the power to the section be turned off again, until it was determined if Peterson was going to cooperate and go back or put up a fight. Imo, the guy needed to be stopped because obviously the city doors were no obstacle at the time. I see Shep as making the only decision he had available to him: protect the expedition by protecting the leader of it, even if it cost him his own life. That’s just the way I see it. I can see that his decision to defy Weir did hamper her attempts to resolve the situation, but in my opinion, I don’t think her plan of talking Peterson down was going to work. Someone was going to have to physically go out there and stop him. The episode makes Shep looks like an a**, but deep down he felt like he was doing the right thing in the heat of the moment, and I tend to agree. Though, now in the back of Weir’s mind, she’ll have that doubt that Sheppard does not trust her judgment and is willing to side-step her decisions. Does make for some interesting confrontation between her and Shep in this one and possibly in future episodes, imo. Previous confrontations about Shep’s decisions always seemed to be nicely brushed off by Weir not leaving a sour taste in either’s mouth. This time it is more serious and will seem to have later repercussions. Or I’m hoping and guessing it will. The writers may totally forget about it and move on like nothing happened.

As for the possible new enemy, I’m hoping they are still around, because I want something more than just the Wraith. The Wraith are a joke to me. I want something scarier. Though it could be interesting if we later find out that this was, in fact, created by the Ancients making them not the so nicey-nice race that we think they are. Makes you wonder why the Ancient gene makes you immune if it possibly wasn’t created by the Ancients. Maybe these “enemies” are not enemies after all. Then again, whoever created it may not have taken into account that the Ancients would be immune because they were mostly aiming at killing the human population or the Wraith. Maybe they didn’t like humans or Wraiths and wanted the monopoly on bad guys in the Pegasus Galaxy. ;) Just as long as somewhere down the line they readdress this storyline and don’t leave it hanging in the cluttered closet designated for unresolved Stargate storylines.

Nice episode. I enjoyed it.

SophieTucker
February 5th, 2005, 04:59 AM
I stayed up for the second airing so I could get those "blanked" minutes.

I thought Weir was wrong, in fact I am becoming less and less impressed with her leadership. You've got a hysterical individual ready to spread a fatal virus and she's going to try to negotiate. I have to agree with Sheppard and McKay. I was really impressed with Rodney by the way. He may be a whiner but, unlike Peterson, he would not risk the lives of everyone else while trying to save his own. He was very professional in a difficult situation. I think Sheppard was responding to how he'd been trained to deal with those types of situations.

Interesting topic because it is relevant. I am sure if we had a potential outbreak in any US city that our government would force a quarantine and wouldn't try to talk people down if they tried to escape. (I say US because not living there - I don't know how other countries would respond) I don't think risking the lives of the entire population to save one person is a good idea.

On the other hand, I have wondered how I would respond if I had been exposed to a deadly pathogen?

Blue Banrigh
February 5th, 2005, 05:27 AM
I'm just wondering why, when the first realised Peterson was gone, Ford did not go out and drag his sorry ass back. He couldn't have gotten that far away. Or when Shep disobeyed why not just get a Wraith stunner and stun him?

Lol, I'm starting to think Rodney's solution to everything is to generate an EM pulse. Wasn't that his plan against Anubis in S6? At least it worked this time. :D

derrickh
February 5th, 2005, 06:38 AM
Sheppard should be in the brig. What he did in this episode was so off the mark that it's a wonder how he stayed in the military so long.

Not only did he disobey Weir, he did it in a way that effectively strips her of any respect with her subordinates. Now everyone knows that when push comes to shove, Weir doesn't matter and Sheppard is the man in charge.

On top of that, his actions directly led to the lockdown of the base. If he hadn't needed his section powered up, the teleporters would've been off line and Peterson would not have infected the base.

But wait, theres more. Sheppard shot(and killed?) Peterson. At that point, Sheppard didn't know for sure what was going on. He just knew that Peterson needed to stay quarantined. Spreading his blood all over the place with 10mm bullets may have increased the infection rate. He didn't take a stunner or a zat gun, he shot at the guy's chest with a P-90. He didn't try to immobolize the guy, he wanted to kill him. An Atlantis team member.

And at the end, he had ZERO remorse for undermining Weir. He made it sound like he'd do it again if he thought he had to.

So we have another show where Sheppard kills someone other than a Wraith. The guy is a menace.

D

Madeleine
February 5th, 2005, 06:50 AM
You've got a hysterical individual ready to spread a fatal virus and she's going to try to negotiate.

Yes! because if negotiation had worked then no one would have been risked by it, and if negotiation had failed she still had the option of having him met by a soldier at the end of a corridor before he reached her position and zatted. Weir's way didn't risk anyone who wasn't already compromised. Shep's way risked Shep and Teyla, and led to the infection of everyone in the canteen; unlike Weir the canteen bods didn't have any armed hazmat-suited soldiers to put inbetween themselves and the deadly-virus-bearing intruder. Good for Shep for pulling it out of the bag in the end, but it was more through luck than judgement.

keshou
February 5th, 2005, 07:34 AM
Another solid episode. Of course I love quarantine/lockdown shows. You usually get a lot of character-development and angst and I'm a sucker for that stuff. This episode certainly delivered in that regard with good development for the regulars and the supporting characters.

McKay (as usual) rocked. He's come a long way from the arrogant man in "48 Hours" - the man who viewed Teal'c's death as an acceptable loss. Such a complex character and becoming quite the leader. Even though Beckett had the superior medical knowledge they were really all looking to McKay for a solution.

When McKay thought he was near death he was trying to deliver information that would help the others. Then his self-interest kicks in. "Tell them I died saving......kids". "That's it.....kids". How can he be so funny and so tragic at the same time? Anyway, love McKay. And David Hewlett continues to impress with his acting skills.

Shep and Weir. Well, this showdown was important and I have to say I came away at least respecting that Weir stood up for herself. But I honestly think both she and Shep made poor decisions in this one.

I think Weir should have let Shep out of the cell in the first place. He was the best person to try and stop Peterson (I mean didn't she see "The Eye" ;) ), especially since McKay warned that Peterson was very familiar with Ancient technology and might be able to override the controls. If she had given Shep immediate permission he might have reached Peterson well before he ended up in the mess hall.

But when Weir said "No", I think Shep should have accepted her decision because if this thing is ever going to work Weir's leadership needs to be respected. Weir's decision, while I think it was incorrect, wasn't totally without merit. But Shep's kind of a hothead so off he goes. Luckily it all worked out.

But anyway it led to some nice dramatic moments that I enjoyed. It will be interesting to see how Shep and Weir's relationship plays out from here.

All the supporting characters were great - Zelenka, Beckett, the blond scientist gal. Ford kind of disappointed me though. He just seems kind of out in left field most of the time.

I actually liked Teyla better in this. She still has an odd manner about her but I thought the stick-fighting with Shep was pretty cool. Even if she was wearing a skirt that looked like she stole it from a car wash. :D

I really thought they were heading towards the Ancients being the ones who made the virus. I still think the Ancients - or at least a group of them - may not be so nice after all. But the potential of a new enemy is good too. I still have trouble with the Wraith being the enemy who destroyed the Ancients - they just don't seem that smart. Maybe there's someone else out there who's pulling the strings. Kind of a DS-9 Jem'Hadar/Founders thing.

So good episode. Atlantis continues to deliver a very consistent second half of the first season. :D

kris
February 5th, 2005, 12:08 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. It was worth waiting for. From the transcript it seemed like it was going to play out very tensely and it did. A McKay fan’s delight.

Weir kind of drove me mad with her slowness. I would never want to work under her and the excuse of essentially “Beckett and his people are too busy” to bring Sheppard a hazmat suit was lame. And that's what started it all, their not getting along-ness. Instead of telling John, “I promise I will get one to you, wait, trust me, call you back in 20 minutes”, and approaching him right away on a more personal level, she maintained a distance in their relationship. As a leader, she should know things get done faster and more efficiently on the level of personal dynamics than in official mode.

If she had given him a little leeway from the beginning, got him to the control room in a hazmat suit, then she may have been able to keep him from becoming gung-ho to go after Peterson. People who are used to action get pretty itchy waiting and impulse takes over. If Weir had him next to her, then Sheppard could’ve seen what Grodin was doing and that is just might work.

Maybe this episode was too early in their working relationship to have that kind of ebb and flow. Wouldn’t seem like it. Sheppard is the ranking military officer, her right arm in a dangerous place. I suppose the ending scene tried to explain a little of Weir’s mistrust, her image of Sheppard. Finally she asks him to trust her but I think Sheppard is going to have a hard time doing that considering her cold management style. If John has a rep of not respecting the chain of command, then she needs to approach him on another level he can relate to.

Poor Beckett. He was reduced to a passive dumbfoundedness, especially in the blood pressure scene. Rodney was clearly in charge the whole time, I loved that. I would never be able to think straight if my life was in immediate danger like his but he kept plugging away and found the answer. The “ghosts” were menacing, great job on the effects. The deaths were horrifying.

The viral lab is an enigma that I hope produces an interesting new angle that uses nanotech again. They could wreak havoc in many ways.

All in all, a great 44 minutes of show and I ate up every minute.

Ugly Pig
February 5th, 2005, 01:24 PM
OOooooo, SCIFI frakked up big time. Instead of the teaser, we got a black screen. Tsk tsk tsk.
Oy. That must've cost them quite a few viewers for the evening... :S

GatetheWay
February 5th, 2005, 01:36 PM
I think the reason why TPTB made Beckett so usless was to make the situation more threatening. Beckett kept on saying he didn't see anything wrong with them and if a fully trained doctor couldn't spot the virus then this thing will be really hard to detect and fight. Regular medicine could not help them because the virus was in fact a bunch of machines.

Wass
February 5th, 2005, 01:41 PM
I think the reason why TPTB made Beckett so usless was to make the situation more threatening. Beckett kept on saying he didn't see anything wrong with them and if a fully trained doctor couldn't spot the virus then this thing will be really hard to detect and fight. Regular medicine could not help them because the virus was in fact a bunch of machines.

Nano virus to be precise ;)

Merlin7
February 5th, 2005, 02:13 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. It was worth waiting for. From the transcript it seemed like it was going to play out very tensely and it did. A McKay fan’s delight.

Weir kind of drove me mad with her slowness. I would never want to work under her and the excuse of essentially “Beckett and his people are too busy” to bring Sheppard a hazmat suit was lame. And that's what started it all, their not getting along-ness. Instead of telling John, “I promise I will get one to you, wait, trust me, call you back in 20 minutes”, and approaching him right away on a more personal level, she maintained a distance in their relationship. As a leader, she should know things get done faster and more efficiently on the level of personal dynamics than in official mode.


This really was the RODNEY SHOW and by that I mean that everyone deferred to his knowledge and decisions. Even the Medical doctor. Weir wasn't in the loop. She offered nothing to solve the problem.

Sheppard stayed put until RODNEY said...Someone needs to go after Peterson. Rodney...who was the guy who figured out everything from start to finish, told Weir someone needs to stop the guy. That's when Shep went against Weir. And Rodney and Shep then worked together to solve the problem and save everyone.

The comment in another post about Shep being a menace and getting everyone infected. Only those in the messhall got infected by Peterson. They had more time than Rodney's people...but ultimately, John saved them all. Did he make a bad choice. Yes and no. But he tends to fix his mistakes. Does Weir? He choice/decision would have killed Zalenka and Ford.

I'll take Shep working with Rodney over Weir any day. And I like Weir.

Easter Lily
February 5th, 2005, 03:42 PM
I'm convinced at least in this episode that Weir didn't really understand the kind of man Sheppard was... he really isn't the type of person to hang around and do nothing (for better or for worse)... but in The Seige II you'll see that both of them have a much better grasp of one another's character.

Sheppard did undermine her authority... naughty boy... but I think she was quite mistaken in thinking that the man who took on the Genii in The Eye was going to sit around and do nothing.

smallgirl
February 5th, 2005, 03:42 PM
This really was the RODNEY SHOW and by that I mean that everyone deferred to his knowledge and decisions. Even the Medical doctor. Weir wasn't in the loop. She offered nothing to solve the problem.

Sheppard stayed put until RODNEY said...Someone needs to go after Peterson. Rodney...who was the guy who figured out everything from start to finish, told Weir someone needs to stop the guy. That's when Shep went against Weir. And Rodney and Shep then worked together to solve the problem and save everyone.

The comment in another post about Shep being a menace and getting everyone infected. Only those in the messhall got infected by Peterson. They had more time than Rodney's people...but ultimately, John saved them all. Did he make a bad choice. Yes and no. But he tends to fix his mistakes. Does Weir? He choice/decision would have killed Zalenka and Ford.

I'll take Shep working with Rodney over Weir any day. And I like Weir.

I agree that Weir was being too slow, she didn't respond quickly enough when Rodney advised that Peterson was perfectly able to get through the security lockouts in the system. She had Grodin working on it but when Rodney said someone needed to stop him, she didn't come up with idea of who could go and do it. However I think Sheppard acted too quickly. He had been itching to get out of the gym and do something ever since the alert first started and when Peterson escaped he decided it had to be him. I understand why he felt like that but I also understand why Weir acted the way she did but neither of them at that point showed any flexibility or frankly any logic. It was like the discussion Sheppard had with Teyla afterwards, both he and Weir were completely locked into their own decisions and neither were thinking clearly. Weir was following outbreak protocol and sticking to a lockdown and non-movement of all personnell which is completely correct. Sheppard on realising that the situation was in danger of escallating decided as the military CO that it need dealing with, which is also correct. I was angry at Sheppard for undermining Weir's authority and getting Bates to overide her decision, I thought it was very unprofessional but I do think that Weir at that point wasn't coming up with any ideas of how to deal with the situation. She looked lost and out of her depth which of course made it the worst possible occasion for Sheppard to disregard her authority. They were both being rather pigheaded and stubborn. It never should have escallated into a contest of wills over the radio.

Whilst watching that scene I was thinking that they both needed to take a breath for a second and logically sort something out. I don't know the layout of Atlantis, where the Control Centre is in relation to the gym and where Peterson was but the most sensible thing was to locate where he was, where he was heading ( they could see it all on the computer screen) and work out who (military wise) was the nearest to him and also able to get access to a hazmat suit to go and deal with him without having to open up too much of city that was already locked down. It may have been the case that Sheppard and Teyla were the most suitable people for the task but that was never addressed because the whole situation got out of hand. I remember thinking when Peterson first escaped and they were tracking him from the CC why didn't they just send Bates to deal with it. They could lock everything down after him as he passed through.

You're right about Rodney, despite being in another near-death situation ( and we all know how well he handles those ~lol) he was the only one keeping a cool head. Rodney saved the day. He worked out the nature of the virus and then how to deal with it. Sheppard did come up with the final solution and risked his life but only after Rodney had already done most of the groundwork. The combination of Weir's cautiousness and Sheppard overzealousness could have led to a lot more deaths than actually happened.

kris
February 5th, 2005, 03:42 PM
I'll take Shep working with Rodney over Weir any day. And I like Weir.


Amen on Shep and Rodney. As for Weir, I'm trying hard to like her.

DarkQuee1
February 5th, 2005, 04:17 PM
Personally, I thought Bates obeyed Shep because Shep is the ranking military officer and he felt he HAD to obey. That, IMO, is why he apologised to Weir.

I think Weir was completely right. Shep screwed up and screwed up big time. He didn't even seem willing to consider the possibility that she might have a point. He was so consumed by his own self-righteousness that he ignored everything and everyone else. Bad Shep. :P He came through in the end, yes, but he made it more difficult for everyone in the process.

I felt that Weir acted appropriately in all instances, although personally I would have been a lot harder on Shep. A LOT harder. I admit that Shep isn't one of my favorite characters, but I like him well enough most of the time. However, in this ep and Sanctuary, I actually hated him. *grinds teeth* The cocky boyish act doesn't play well for me, particularly in this ep.


ITA. I was furious with the character at that point. Basically, he pulled a military coup on the civilian leadership of the base. And this is the guy who, when Sumner told him to remember who was in command, replied, "That would be Dr. Weir." Unless, apparently, she doesn't do what he wants her to do.

And his action actually made things worse. He ended up being responsible for exposing a lot of other people to the disease.

I'm very glad that TPTB addressed it and had her ream him out at the end; I was afraid that it was going to be another "male" and "military" gets to diss "female" and "civilian" situation. He stepped way over the line and he didn't seem remotely apologetic about it until she hit him.

BTW, in my opinion, Bates was wrong, too. If Gen. Jumper gave a sergeant an order to disobey a direct order from the President, would he be expected to follow it? No, he wouldn't. Weir was in command of that base and Bates should have followed *that* chain of command.

I don't like the increasingly skimpy costumes for Teyla. Hey, TPTB: try working on her character instead of her bustline!

The most interesting thing for me was the question of who created the virus, and why. Was it an enemy of the Wraith with a Ree'tou rebel idea that humans were the Wraith's primary food source, so destroy the food, destroy the Wraith? Or something worse than the Wraith out there?

(Watch: this will be the "new enemy" of SG-1's season 9!)


J.

Merlin7
February 5th, 2005, 06:29 PM
I agree that Weir was being too slow, she didn't respond quickly enough when Rodney advised that Peterson was perfectly able to get through the security lockouts in the system. She had Grodin working on it but when Rodney said someone needed to stop him, she didn't come up with idea of who could go and do it. However I think Sheppard acted too quickly. He had been itching to get out of the gym and do something ever since the alert first started and when Peterson escaped he decided it had to be him. I understand why he felt like that but I also understand why Weir acted the way she did but neither of them at that point showed any flexibility or frankly any logic. It was like the discussion Sheppard had with Teyla afterwards, both he and Weir were completely locked into their own decisions and neither were thinking clearly. Weir was following outbreak protocol and sticking to a lockdown and non-movement of all personnell which is completely correct. Sheppard on realising that the situation was in danger of escallating decided as the military CO that it need dealing with, which is also correct. I was angry at Sheppard for undermining Weir's authority and getting Bates to overide her decision, I thought it was very unprofessional but I do think that Weir at that point wasn't coming up with any ideas of how to deal with the situation. She looked lost and out of her depth which of course made it the worst possible occasion for Sheppard to disregard her authority. They were both being rather pigheaded and stubborn. It never should have escallated into a contest of wills over the radio.

Whilst watching that scene I was thinking that they both needed to take a breath for a second and logically sort something out. I don't know the layout of Atlantis, where the Control Centre is in relation to the gym and where Peterson was but the most sensible thing was to locate where he was, where he was heading ( they could see it all on the computer screen) and work out who (military wise) was the nearest to him and also able to get access to a hazmat suit to go and deal with him without having to open up too much of city that was already locked down. It may have been the case that Sheppard and Teyla were the most suitable people for the task but that was never addressed because the whole situation got out of hand. I remember thinking when Peterson first escaped and they were tracking him from the CC why didn't they just send Bates to deal with it. They could lock everything down after him as he passed through.

You're right about Rodney, despite being in another near-death situation ( and we all know how well he handles those ~lol) he was the only one keeping a cool head. Rodney saved the day. He worked out the nature of the virus and then how to deal with it. Sheppard did come up with the final solution and risked his life but only after Rodney had already done most of the groundwork. The combination of Weir's cautiousness and Sheppard overzealousness could have led to a lot more deaths than actually happened.


For Weir and Shep it turned into a pissing contest, which I think they both learned from. And I love the realism of it. In that kind of situation, people react. Differently. Weir's instinctive reaction is to get all the intel and work it through. NO TIME FOR THAT. Shep's reaction is to do something. ACTION. But he did stay put at first.

They both made mistakes. THANK GOODNESS! That's realistic.

For me I lean more towards Rodney was running the show. He thought someone should get PETERSON. He then worked in tandem with Sheppard. Rodney did have the basic idea, but Shep found the way to make it work .That's what McShep do. They work together. Weir and Shep are LEARNING to do that. IT's just another dynamic of SGA that I adore.

I like that Weir called him on it, but what makes what he did very interesting to me is still the BATES Factor. Bates is always calling Shep on reacting on his feelings rather than taking a more logical stance on things. *like in Suspicion and eps to come* ALways calling him on it. Yet in this matter he didn't even hesitate. BATES agreed with Shep. For once. He felt Sheppard should go after Peterson. as well. So I'm leaning towards it was the right thing to do, ultimately since Rodney said get the guy.

WEir's mistake was in locking Shep in. He was far enough away that he wasn't going to be in danger even if he and Teyla headed out for the hazmat suits. And I don't think they really HAD time to debate it. Peterson wanted IN the control area and he would have made it.

Weir could have kept talking to Shep. I'm sure though that Rodney would have jumped in at that point and told her to let Shep go. Shep and Rodney really did work together. Weir contributed...nothing. She meant well but at this point, Rodney and Shep worked better on the problem. And I just love the Bates factor. I do. Because he's made it so clear that when he disagrees with Shep he's very vocal about it. He totally thought it was the right thing to save the control area. Bates..the head of security. So...that was cool.

phenxF16
February 5th, 2005, 08:04 PM
I loved this episode! Probably my favorite of the season so far, except for the Eye, maybe.

I'm a big shep/weir fan, but this ep. had something for everybody.

I really hope that they don't just ignore the trust issue, because so far this series has been one of the most realistic that I've seen on TV. Mckay was great and I'm glad that Ford finally showed some real emotion, which happened to be panic.

ShadowMaat
February 5th, 2005, 08:41 PM
...I'm glad that Ford finally showed some real emotion, which happened to be panic.
Yeah, he's been hanging around McKay too long. http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/lynx/magwink.gif

Merlin7
February 5th, 2005, 08:52 PM
I loved this episode! Probably my favorite of the season so far, except for the Eye, maybe.

I'm a big shep/weir fan, but this ep. had something for everybody.

I really hope that they don't just ignore the trust issue, because so far this series has been one of the most realistic that I've seen on TV. Mckay was great and I'm glad that Ford finally showed some real emotion, which happened to be panic.


That really was one of the coolest things about the ep. Everybody got a moment/issue.

Bates and Grodin and Zalenka and Ford and Beckett...plus the main characters. SGA does this well and I'm so glad. I don't always like how the characters are written...and I was surprised at how panicked Ford was considering he's a soldier and usually plays it much cooler. But then again..I adore the fact that the characters on SGA are all flawed. All make mistakes. They're so real/human. ::::Hugs show:::

Vapor
February 6th, 2005, 11:48 AM
Just a few stray comments this week.

The Weir/Shep dynamic continues to stay interesting. I love the concept of the two dueling leaders and their often-conflicting viewpoints. In this situation I particularly like that neither side was completely wrong, and they come out learning from each other. I don't know what Weir-haters are talking about. Her thinking was perfectly logical. Just because we know what happened after her decision was made doesn't suddenly make her "wrong." She didn't know anymore than we did at first what was going to happen next. Same with Shep.

Ford's little freakout was my least favorite part of the ep. Sorry, I just continually dislike the things Ford does and says through this season. I've lost all interest in the guy.

McKay, of course, rules.

Notice also that ALL the recurring characters return in this one. Great!

So, I hope it doesn't take them 3 years to follow up on this "who made the virus?" thing. I want to know sometime in the near future, thank you.

This ep rocked. I give it an A. Helluva lot better than last week's.

Jeril
February 6th, 2005, 01:58 PM
I thought this was a really well-done episode with character development practically all around.
I think my favorite part was when McKay was talking real fast before he was supposed to die and he was telling Ford about his sister and he said something along the lines of, "Tell her I died saving someone! Make it sound good! Uh, kids! Yeah! Tell her I died saving kids!" Lol. :rolleyes: He's so hopeless...

I was however very irritated with Sheppard when he made Bates let him out of the gym. Weir was so in command and he completely undermined her authority there. He was way out of line. Yes, he saved the day and they couldn't have done it without him, etc. etc. but poor Weir! How's she ever going to have the respect and authority she should if Sheppard continues to do that? He's really gotta work on following her orders more... though he really wouldn't be the same character if he did so I guess I just gotta learn to tolerate that quirk of his. Oh well. :D He's cute so I'll forgive him.

I think he was right though in the way he wanted to deal with the situation. I was sitting there, watching Weir, and thinking to myself, "Girl, you've got Bates right there! Give him a gun and tell him to go blow the hell out of that idiot Peterson!" That's what I would've done, at least, but I guess Weir doesn't work that way. Hopefully Sheppard will rub off on her some in the seasons to come. :D

DarkQuee1
February 6th, 2005, 05:34 PM
I think he was right though in the way he wanted to deal with the situation. I was sitting there, watching Weir, and thinking to myself, "Girl, you've got Bates right there! Give him a gun and tell him to go blow the hell out of that idiot Peterson!" That's what I would've done, at least, but I guess Weir doesn't work that way. Hopefully Sheppard will rub off on her some in the seasons to come. :D


We have no idea that she wouldn't have, had Peterson made it to the control room. She was still trying to contain him. And remember, the city had locked them all down. Unless Bates had a hazmat suit in the control center, he wouldn't have been able to move around.

J.

ShadowMaat
February 6th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Send Ford or one of the other babysitters. They're military trained, they know what Peterson looks like, and they're already infected.

slipstream
February 6th, 2005, 06:18 PM
I agree partially with some of the other posters here. Altho I was gratified to see Sheppard taking charge from Weir from a male female perspective I thought it was very wrong and dangerous from a military-civilian perspective. I hope that genuine American soldiers would never conduct themselves that way.

However, as the mission is international and strictly speaking none of the national contingents are answerable to the others perhaps Sheppard did not act so badly after all. The American soldiers are there to support and protect but Weir is not an elected official of America and tho she might be chosen by the President I'm sure Weir would never be leading without international support. So maybe very strictly speaking she doesn't really command the military and that's why Sheppard felt morally he could override her.

Weir was being very stupid tho. Mckay/Sheppard/Bates recognized the situation for what it was.

SmartFox
February 6th, 2005, 11:00 PM
I really like that episode. I thought Sheppard shouldn't of undermined Wier's leadership but that Wier wasn't thinking smart at all. She was watching how Peterson kept coming and nothing stopped him yet she did nothing to stop him and if I were Sheppard i would do the same thing. Stop him at all costs. Yes through Shep's actions a lot of people got infected but what if instead Peterson got to the control room. Then you have all the main leadership dead and then no one can get into the control room.

I'm guessing that the Ancients were the ones that made the virus. Complete guess no backing at all. Just the way Mckay avoided answering the question. Also it would make perfect sense as a desperate last resort way to stop the Wraith.

Azramm
February 7th, 2005, 06:17 AM
Spoilers......moved from other thread as well, sorry new/lurker here
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Consider the following:

-Beckett's comment on how the Ancients would never deliberaly design such a thing.

-The insidius nature of the virus. The sudden frightening visions, the foreknowledge of an imminent death at a predetermined time. With the technology of the Ancients they could have made a much faster acting virus. Even with our real life current technology we have invisible chemical and biological agents that kill instantly. The creator of the virus wanted its victims to suffer before they died.

-Consider all of the races/individuals that the Atlantas team and SGC have encountered that would have not only the ability to create such a virus but also the desire.

-The conclusion: Linea. No one knows where she came from. All we know is that she is capable and happily willing to wipe out all life as she finds it. Linea could have been an Ancient or have somehow gotten access to Atlantis at some point. While this may now be a thing of the past her current amnesia points to her being a walking time bomb waiting to wipe out the current race she lives with.


-Second possibility. Slightly remote. Perhaps the Ancients were trying to find a way to counteract the illusion casting capability of the Wraith and it backfired or was not given sufficient development time.

GatetheWay
February 7th, 2005, 09:04 AM
For those who saw the first two minutes of the episode. Was the prime number game McKay and Zelenka playing a reference to DH's movie Cube or was is it just a coincidence?

prion
February 7th, 2005, 09:24 AM
Personally, everybody sorta screwed up in this episode, which made it more realistic. Sheppard saw it strictly froma military viewpoint that he had to protect the base's personnel, and that included Weir. Weir saw it from the 'we can reason this out' point of view- guns and violence are her very last resort - and also figured Grodin could lock the guy out. Sheppard doesn't ascribe to the plan that Grodin's plan MIGHT work.

If Petersen had made it ot the control room, that would have taken out key personnel, AND he could have escaped further into the base. Of course, nobody thought far enough (ahem) about Petersen ducking into that transporter. Oops.

Hyperspace
February 7th, 2005, 01:55 PM
^^^
Someone above mentioned that Peterson should have been zapped. Do they have zat guns on Atlantis? I suppose the Wraith guns...

And what's the total population of Atlantis and the body count so far in Season 1?

Keffler
February 7th, 2005, 02:32 PM
They dont have zats and the wraith stunners work differently.

Did anyone else think it was stupid that the ancients systems could be affected by flooding and yet they put the city ontop (or underneath) the ocean?

ShadowMaat
February 7th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Did anyone else think it was stupid that the ancients systems could be affected by flooding and yet they put the city ontop (or underneath) the ocean?
No. As I recall, they didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. And there are very few things that aren't affected by something like flooding. ;) But if the choice is to have a few flooded hallways and wrecked sections of the city or have the wraith come in and destroy everything and/or possibly use the city for dire purposes, I'm guessing a few soggy socks are worth it. :)

SmartFox
February 7th, 2005, 06:30 PM
^^^
Someone above mentioned that Peterson should have been zapped. Do they have zat guns on Atlantis? I suppose the Wraith guns...

And what's the total population of Atlantis and the body count so far in Season 1?

I dont think they brought any Goa'uld weapons or technology with them. I dont why though. Several times a zat would be useful. Also i would like to see what effect a staff weapon would have on the Wraith.

As for the body count im uncertain.

GatetheWay
February 7th, 2005, 06:39 PM
Body count so far in Atlantis (only up to Hot Zone):

Rising: 1 (Col. Sumner)

The Storm: 2 (the two soldiers who were guarding the gate)

The Defiant One: 2 (Abrams and Gaul)

Hot Zone: 5 (Johnson, Wagner, Dumai (sp?), Hayes, and Peterson)

So thats 10 so far...

Bastet11191967
February 8th, 2005, 08:39 AM
I missed the first four minutes of the show, since my satellite blacked out on me, so I didn't see that part. I thought Shepard went too far in disobeying Weir's orders. He seemed to come across as too much of a hot-head in this episode. I liked that Teyla scolded him for doing it. I think Teyla understands Weir's burden of responsibility for everyone's safety, since she had been the former leader of the Athosians. The ending of the show seems to point to continued conflict between Weir and Shepard, which would be unfortunate. However, it would be totally fake and unrealistic if they were both all smiles and blowing the incident off casually, like in a sitcom. It'll be interesting to see how the upcoming episodes and season two play that part out.

greytop
February 8th, 2005, 08:44 AM
I missed the first four minutes of the show, since my satellite blacked out on me, so I didn't see that part.
If it was on Scifi, it wasn't your satellite. I have cable and Scifi did it on. Btw, the blackout has been descuss earlier in this thread.

GhostPoet
February 8th, 2005, 12:05 PM
So I take it that new alien tech they discovered could possibly be made by the aliens who will be the new enemy of season 9 for SG-1?

aAnubiSs
February 8th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Any race making technology with chips and wires would be crushed in a second :)

Jeril
February 11th, 2005, 11:25 PM
For those who saw the first two minutes of the episode. Was the prime number game McKay and Zelenka playing a reference to DH's movie Cube or was is it just a coincidence?
It might've been a nod or a coincidence, as you said. I suppose the only ones who know are TPTB. Maybe they'll tell us someday...
I was thinking though; it'd be interesting if they took that bit about how Ford was missing every time he guessed although it was nigh-impossible because of statistics or whatnot, and made something out of it later on. I don't know how they'd do it, but it'd be interesting, nonetheless. :D

SmartFox
February 11th, 2005, 11:31 PM
The Ford thing was just a plot filler and most likely wont come up again.