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GateWorld
November 7th, 2004, 06:23 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/114.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/114.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>SANCTUARY</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 114</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The team finds a paradise world that would make an ideal sanctuary for those fleeing from the Wraith, but the local inhabitants believe their goddess will not permit it.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/114.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

dd78matt
November 29th, 2004, 05:57 PM
Well, is anyone gracious enough to give the unfortunate a review/summary?

Gothann
November 29th, 2004, 06:04 PM
I can only review, I don't have time for a summary.
There is a LOAD of spoilers in it too, so watch out.

I believe that Major Sheppard is, without any doubt, becoming a mirror image of Captain Kirk, as Rodney so aptly describes as "So 1967".

Here's my review.

I found the episode quite relieving from the tense episodes we've seen of late (what, FOUR episodes with impending doom in them? I was getting tired of it). The relationship between the High Priestess and Sheppard was surprisingly familiar (the Kirk bit) and we get to see Sheppard's first on-screen kiss, with an ANCIENT, no less. The whole romance thing became a key factor in the episode too quickly in my view, with Sheppard jumping the gun and Weir LETTING him go out alone on a PJ to fight a fleet of Wraith Darts.
But still, the episode was extremely interesting and calm (aside from McKay's apparent blunders here).

Here's a major spoiler: We can now see an Ascended Ancient's power. Let's just say it's not a pretty sight when it's unleashed.

dd78matt
November 29th, 2004, 06:12 PM
So an Ancient that was once ascended, but is no longer, still retains the ascended powers?

Gothann
November 29th, 2004, 06:15 PM
So an Ancient that was once ascended, but is no longer, still retains the ascended powers?
She can switch freely between being ascended and not.

tfalls1
November 29th, 2004, 07:06 PM
hmmm.... I wonder if they could not make Daniel "un-ascended" therefore they made him just go back to human "form" and took away his memories. He may actually still be ascended... just a thought

Gothann
November 29th, 2004, 07:27 PM
hmmm.... I wonder if they could not make Daniel "un-ascended" therefore they made him just go back to human "form" and took away his memories. He may actually still be ascended... just a thought
No, Daniel was re-born, or something to that effect. To be expelled from being Ascended is to be returned to your original form. To be damned from the ranks of the Ascended leaves you Ascended, but stuck to one place (like what's his name on that planet with the powerful weapon)

Jarnin
November 29th, 2004, 10:32 PM
No, Daniel was re-born, or something to that effect. To be expelled from being Ascended is to be returned to your original form. To be damned from the ranks of the Ascended leaves you Ascended, but stuck to one place (like what's his name on that planet with the powerful weapon)
Sorry, Daniel wasn't reborn. He was forced into his mortal form because he was going to break the rules.

Also, Orlan wasn't "trapped" on Velona. If he were stuck there, how could he have followed SG-1 through the gate?

Personally, I think Orlan's punishment was like jail time. He couldn't operate the Stargate to leave, and he could just fly away or teleport somewhere. He was stuck. Then the SG-1 team came, and opened up his cell.

Gothann
November 29th, 2004, 11:15 PM
Sorry, Daniel wasn't reborn. He was forced into his mortal form because he was going to break the rules.

Also, Orlan wasn't "trapped" on Velona. If he were stuck there, how could he have followed SG-1 through the gate?

Personally, I think Orlan's punishment was like jail time. He couldn't operate the Stargate to leave, and he could just fly away or teleport somewhere. He was stuck. Then the SG-1 team came, and opened up his cell.
True, but if we look at Athar, she was stuck on her own planet, too, until she was brought back by Sheppard. But being away too long would alert the Wraith of her absence and summon them there.

As for Daniel, yes, he was forced to his mortal form, but by being re-born I meant he had absolutely no idea of who he was at first, almost like amnesia from the banishment. Though he regained his memory, he also retained a tad bit of the Ancient language, too.

Now let's get back on topic before someone deletes these posts.

Leonor Varela did a wonderful job being an Ancient, being mystical and always hiding something. Although I don't really know why Athar should have a slight hispanic accent, it was good to see more than just white-looking Ascended Ancients for once.

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 02:51 AM
The thing is that Daniel didn't know how to ascend, Athar did so she could switch freely.

Daniel got help from an Ancient, she did not :)

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 02:55 AM
Also Athar is an ancient therefore she is biologically more advanced then Daniel who is human and she probably has better control of her powers then Daniel ever did.

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 03:07 AM
Well once ascended I don't think biology matters.

Alpha17X
November 30th, 2004, 04:06 AM
This episode made my loins burn in 2 ways. One way is not aloud to be described on this board.

the second way is that they FINALLY found an ACTUAL ancient. I was afraid they were gonna drag it on forever with the whole where's waldo the ancient thing.

Now I want them to find the death star.... oh wait they did. I bet they'll never reference that thing again.

Nee
November 30th, 2004, 05:39 AM
i was well impressed with this episode. hope theres more of that.

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 06:23 AM
I have been impressed by the whole season.

Teal'c
November 30th, 2004, 07:31 AM
She was ascended the entire episode. Orlin didn't know how to ascend, why would Athar? And in Absolute Power Shifu had a solid body when he was ascended (Unless you think a little boy has the power to knock Daniel out and give him a dream :P)

veneticuss
November 30th, 2004, 08:19 AM
Good episode. I hope we'll see them again ;)

keppiezbt
November 30th, 2004, 08:22 AM
cna someone post a sumarry of this episode?

related to ascension, oriln was trapped on vorash but was still asended and he still had asended powers. When he de-asended (by choice) to be with Carter, he still retained his powers. Daniel lost it all. Shifu was asended by could de-asended into a corprael form at will (orlin did that too) so my guess is that when u are forced out, you lose it all but you can switch between corpreal and non-corpreal if your asended and if you just give up being asended you still retain the knowledge you had. (or in the case of anubis you werent forced out all the way) cant comment on the ancient in this episode w/o seeing it.

summary?

veneticuss
November 30th, 2004, 08:33 AM
keppiezbt: I dont think he kept his powers. He just kept the knowlegdge

keppiezbt
November 30th, 2004, 08:38 AM
keppiezbt: I dont think he kept his powers. He just kept the knowlegdge

yeah thats what i said

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 08:42 AM
My guess is that the knowledge of ascension is limited to a group of people.

The Others - The ones that know how to ascend, and helped the other Ancients to ascend.

The rest - Ancients, and other people like Skaara, Daniel and so on, who don't know how to ascend.

Oma Desala - The one who figured out how to ascend. Therefore they allow her to operate outside the normal rules.

Anubis - Oma, in her foolishness, taught Anubis how to ascend, she didn't just help him like she did with Daniel. Therefore if the Others would force him to descend he would just ascend again. Therefore the best the Others could do is to have him in a ascend-descend loop, but as long as he doesn't use his powers they leave him alone.

keppiezbt
November 30th, 2004, 08:49 AM
My guess is that the knowledge of ascension is limited to a group of people.

The Others - The ones that know how to ascend, and helped the other Ancients to ascend.
The rest - Ancients, and other people like Skaara, Daniel and so on, who don't know how to ascend.
Oma Desala - The one who figured out how to ascend. Therefore they allow her to operate outside the normal rules.

who says oma taught everyone to ascend?

my guess is that the ancients, a large majority of them, figured out how to asend and did it to escape the plague, whatever that may have been. they helped other ancients ascend too. in time, some ancients/others decided to help others ascend...ie oma and mike. went around help people asend but never really broke any rules so they couldnt be forced out they were just like outcasts. (hence a possibility as to why orlin knew nothing of her). Those that follow oma seem to be the ones that she helps ascend and are like a seperate group of ancients/others.

People like skaara or daniel know how to ascend once you ascend but i think ordinary people need the help of ascended beings to get up there. (i'm not sure if that is what you meant)

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 08:50 AM
I sort of agree with you to certain extent but I think all ancients had the knowledge to ascend maybe once few ascended they helped others by showing them the right path. IMO the reason oma is allowed to help others to ascend is either the others don’t want harm another ancient or there are some sympathizers who understand the reasons for oma helping others.

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 08:53 AM
What I meant is that Oma Desala was the scientist who figured out the last piece of the puzzle how to ascend, therefore she was the first.

The Others are the ones that had access to Omas knowledge, and therefore have power over all the other Ancients who doesn't have the knowledge how to ascend. They just got the help from the Others. Therefore they have no choice but to follow their rules, else they'll get kicked out or banished.

Think of it as any company. You got the CEO (Oma), The major stock-owners(The Others) and the employees(Everyone else ascended)

As for:
"People like skaara or daniel know how to ascend once you ascend but i think ordinary people need the help of ascended beings to get up there. (i'm not sure if that is what you meant)"

I say that Daniel and Skaara have no idea whatsoever how to ascend. They were just lucky/earned Omas attention and took the chance when given.

Other Ancients are evolved enough the ascend, they just need the right catalyst(some sort of radiation, a virus(maybe the plauge was a failed attempt towards ascension), a chemical or whatever). However, they dont know WHAT the catalyst is, and therefore they can't ascend without help (Orlin for example)

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 08:57 AM
What I meant is that Oma Desala was the scientist who figured out the last piece of the puzzle how to ascend, therefore she was the first.

The Others are the ones that had access to Omas knowledge, and therefore have power over all the other Ancients who doesn't have the knowledge how to ascend. They just got the help from the Others. Therefore they have no choice but to follow their rules, else they'll get kicked out or banished.

Think of it as any company. You got the CEO (Oma), The major stock-owners(The Others) and the employees(Everyone else ascended)

There is no evidence that oma was the first to ascend and she was scientist. Secondly the ancients were not power huger that they would let there own kind die if they don't follow there views/rules.

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 09:00 AM
I said "I think" - which means that it's my theory. :D There's no reason The Others would be so strict towards everyone else BUT Oma. There must be a reason. She IS interfering with human evolution.

The Ancients were not power hungry? Well they wouldn't kill them, but they'd force them to live by their rules, else you'll be banished to the planet you tried to help. Both said in Ascension and Sanctuary.

keppiezbt
November 30th, 2004, 09:05 AM
i think someone needs to post a summary of this episode lol

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 09:07 AM
yeah tell me about it I'm waithing for MM (can't spell her full name).

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 09:10 AM
Sanctuary Summary:

SGA-1 gets attacked by Wraith Darts in orbit of a planet.
"Energy weapon" destroys the Darts
SGA-1 goes down on the planet to investigate
The population has never heard about the Wraith. Their goddess protects them.
SGA-1 talks to the high priestess.
SGA-1 want to bring people to the planet.
The goddess won't allow it.
Sheppard invites the high priestess to Atlantis.
High priestess touches a device, it activates.
McKay goes Inspector Gadget.
Shep and priestess kisses.
McKay scans her and guesses she's an Ancient.
The priestess says that she is the goddess that's protecting the planet and that she isn't allowed to protect anyone else but the original inhabitants.(She's the energy weapon)

Something like that =)

veneticuss
November 30th, 2004, 09:14 AM
Was that a weapon? I thought it was that ascended who did the wave.

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 09:16 AM
Ahhhhh you haven't seen the episode yet or have you :p :D

Wass
November 30th, 2004, 09:17 AM
Was that a weapon? I thought it was that ascended who did the wave.

It was ascended ancient from what I have read.

Rogtag
November 30th, 2004, 09:23 AM
Wow, what an excellent episode! Atlantis IMHO just keeps on getting better and better, :)

I'll try to give a brief summary, but I'm afraid I can't convey the true awesomeness of the epsiodes (I'm a bit of a ancient-fan yes :D)

Sanctuary - The Lowdown
---------

The episode opens with Sheppard and the others in a puddlejumper beeing chased by several darts. Their weapons are offline and Rodney is unable to fix the problem, when suddenly a massive energy burst wipes out the darts while leaving the puddlejumper unharmed. Rodney speculates that it's an ancient weapon and that they should land to see if they can find a ZPM or study the weapon.

Upon landing they discover a people without any technology worth mentioning, and even more mind boggeling, they have never even heard of the wraith. They chitchat and are taken to the high-priestess of Athara, she's quite beautiful by the way ;).

The team tries to come to some understanding with the high-priestess about granting sanctuary to other people in the galaxy, since the world is untouched by the Wraith. The locals however, after consulting with their deity, denies the request. Upon which Rodney goes into a frenzy about them hiding behind their religion. Sheppard sends them all back to their ship and is able to convince the high-priestess to come with them to Atlantis and learn to know them a little better. (go Shep!)

At Atlantis they start noticing odd things about the high-priestess, she's in _perfect_ health she shows up different on a new life sign detector that she activates by touch. All the time while Sheppard continues to romance her, walks around the city, a picnic and the works. Rodney on the other hand is very suspicious and thinks she could be a dangerous alien.

Weir tries to come to an understanding about what they could share, but it seems the high-priestess isn't interested in anything. Yatta-yatta and she's interested in earth's religions and myths.

Finally Rodney convinces Weir to allow him to scan her while they have a meeting. In the meeting she says some may be welcome to her planet, but not others and she stares at Rodney and says: "Find anything on your scans yet?" Then she says she has stayed too long, and that she must return. While walking towards the stargate, she shows signs of dizzyness and we see a vision of her planet with wraith ships all around. She ascends, and goes through the stargate.

Sheppard soon grabs a puddlejumper and follows suit, he destroys some darts. And then she's in his ship and just says "I'll take care of this" and the big energy woosh destroys all the wraith.

Down on the planet Sheppard learns that she's an Ancient who after ascended protected the humans of her once homeworld. And as punishment she's exiled to the planet to always protect her people, and that the other ascended won't let her interfere in any other way.

Sheppard is pained, but they somehow kiss the ascended way, they share themselves. Awesome!

Excellent episode, my fast summary just can't convey it's awesomeness :D

veneticuss
November 30th, 2004, 09:33 AM
Was that the same sharing like in the episode Ascension, when that guy did it with Sam?

Rogtag
November 30th, 2004, 09:46 AM
Was that the same sharing like in the episode Ascension, when that guy did it with Sam?
I think so, I'm not entirely sure since I don't have that episode availble at the moment.

She says that in moments they'll know more about eachother than anything and then sort of engulfs him in her white fog.

keppiezbt
November 30th, 2004, 10:07 AM
I think so, I'm not entirely sure since I don't have that episode availble at the moment.

She says that in moments they'll know more about eachother than anything and then sort of engulfs him in her white fog.

maybe now this will give sheppard more understanding of atlantis and the ancients.....allowing much more possibility in stories.

but wait, if she says she was condemned for interfering with her people, then her people are not ancients which means she is not which means that she figured out how to asencd w/o someone elses help? (maybe?) or someone helped her like oma did skaara...

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 10:59 AM
'When those of us, whom you call the Ancients, figured out how to ascend we were supposed to leave our human ties behind..." She was an Ancient, but the people seeded on that planet has been her people for several thousands of years

veneticuss
November 30th, 2004, 11:04 AM
'When those of us, whom you call the Ancients, figured out how to ascend we were supposed to leave our human ties behind..." She was an Ancient, but the people seeded on that planet has been her people for several thousands of years
Meaning, that it was the planet she seeded?

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 11:05 AM
Or the planet she was assigned to guide, or she just liked it there. We don't really know how the Ancients worked pre-ascension.

Ugly Pig
November 30th, 2004, 11:34 AM
Rejoice! The time has come for


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Sanctuary'

Although not the best of the Atlantis episodes so far, this one was pretty interesting. Granted, it didn't reveal much new information to those of us who have been following all things Stargate, but it introduced Atlantis to some things previously only seen on SG-1: The ascended Ancients, their no-interference law, their "mind sharing" (you know... the thing Orlin did with Sam), as well as random Wizard of Oz references. :D

Also, this episode contains the series' first romance (not counting Weir/Simon), and thankfully it's not between two series regulars (and will probably not be followed up on anytime soon). This lead to my biggest laugh of the episode; specifically McKay's comments regarding captain Kirk.

No big plot revelations or anything, but this was still a solid, enjoyable episode. One can not really ask for more... every week. :)

Ugly Pig
November 30th, 2004, 11:46 AM
So an Ancient that was once ascended, but is no longer, still retains the ascended powers?

She can switch freely between being ascended and not.
No no no... She's ascended all the time. Ascended beings can fake human form, we've seen it many times: Orlin, Shifu, Daniel, Skaara... They don't quit being ascended every time they appear in human form. :)

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 11:50 AM
I actually don't think they fake human form, I think they do become solid. Since the human body isn't anything else then energy that shouldn't be that hard for them to do. However they can revert back to their ascended state at will and use their powers.

PlaZ
November 30th, 2004, 12:04 PM
oh my god extremely hot chick. great ep for ancient fans, gotta love their light show! had some wraith, had some ancients, had some rodney, had some looove, some action and i believe ford had a line

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 12:09 PM
She was indeed very beautiful

Alpha17X
November 30th, 2004, 12:15 PM
My favorite part was;

"I'm sorry Chaya, I honestly believed it wouldn't cause any harm, I.." -Weir

"Stop apologizing, Elizibeth!.. She's an Ancient! But what I can't understand is... why the act? I mean, don't you know we'd give just about anything just to talk to you? To learn from you? I mean what were you doing, checking us out?!" -Mckay

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 12:20 PM
I don't see why everyone is always telling McKay to shut up. He always says what he's thinking, and he's really smart so they should listen to him. So what if what he says upsets a few people. Although his approach isn't always the best it feels like they always wait 'til something has happend then they ask him, and he says exactly what he thinks, without any diplomacy.

Hm.. Now I see why I like him so much. He's exactly like me.

Ugly Pig
November 30th, 2004, 12:40 PM
I actually don't think they fake human form, I think they do become solid. Since the human body isn't anything else then energy that shouldn't be that hard for them to do.
Sorry, I meant to put the word "fake" in quotation marks. I agree, they can really become solid, but they don't "de-ascend" in order to do it like Daniel and Orlin both eventually did - that is a different matter entirely. They're still ascended when they're solid, they just can take physical form at will.

aAnubiSs
November 30th, 2004, 12:43 PM
Sorry, I meant to put the word "fake" in quotation marks. I agree, they can really become solid, but they don't "de-ascend" in order to do it like Daniel and Orlin both eventually did - that is a different matter entirely. They're still ascended when they're solid, they just can take physical form at will.
Then we are in agreement.

TOA
November 30th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Sorry, I meant to put the word "fake" in quotation marks. I agree, they can really become solid, but they don't "de-ascend" in order to do it like Daniel and Orlin both eventually did - that is a different matter entirely. They're still ascended when they're solid, they just can take physical form at will.


You know it makes you kind of wonder. Its been implied a number of times (especially in sanctuary where its pretty much stated) that humans and ancients are related - its not a matter of seeding or genetics. Its almost said that humans are like younger cousins or something.

The ancient in sanctuary obviously had VERY strong feelings for numerous humans. (love/lust/friends/family...) Which is why she is being punished, she simply could not let go. Other Ancients we have met have similar issues: Oma is bending the rules helping numerous humans learn to ascend, the guy with sam with his assistance to a human world etc.

The thing this all brings together is: Did Daniel ACTUALLY get re-corporialized? Or did Oma simply place a block on his ability to remember how to re-form into an energy state?

(ie is Daniel really a human at this point?)

Since ascended can pretty effectively mimic living/unascended humans would Daniel even know?

Good my brain hurts..

None the less gotta say that this episode does have the best (thus far) scene of the Wraith attacking planets... There were hundreds of darts and inleast 1 hive.....

A

AsgardCarnage
November 30th, 2004, 02:54 PM
my guess is daniel is indead human, otherwise he would be in perfect health and he isn't he still uses his glasses and almost got killed by the game-chair thing.

maybe people are just mixing words here but they dont "de-send" everytime they choice to be in a corporial form, they can still use their powers while in that form. the way i see it is, energy and matter and interchangeable, and since they are pure energy now they have a great and apparently magical control over energy so they can change some energy to be matter at will and form a human body. while their minds are still acended, if that makes sence. they arn't acending/ de-sending everytime they wanna look human its just energy in the shape of a corporial body.

as for her punishment and maybe orlins to, ancients dont live in our "plain" of exsistance, they arn't all just on another planet or in another galaxy somewhere, they dont exsist in our dimension (i have a long explination of dimensions greater then 3/4/5 depending on which u think we live in, but i wont go into that basicly u can understand dimensions lower then the one your in but u can't understand ones that are higher) so basicly orlin and athar are still ascended but are forced to exsist in our plain of exsistance, so they can move around through the stargate to other worlds that dosn't break the punishment and call down the anger of the other ascended ancient high council.

on a couple of other notes, i'm glad to see shep knowns now that u only need one glowing jelly fish of doom to destroy a dart. and it was good to see a fleet of them and after a closer look i couldn't see a hive ship, there are some other non dart ships there but they dont look big enough to be hive, maybe command and comunication ships or something? if there was a hive there, now we know athar can take care of her self and destroy anything that comes close, even a hive, then maybe the atlantis team should "accidently" get followed by some ships to that planet and she can do the hard work for them? thats not breaking the rules, shes not interfering in mortal problems shes just protecting her planet as the others made her do?

somme
November 30th, 2004, 03:59 PM
Great episode. :)

One thing though, when the ancients ascended why did they get so damned arrogant. Surely it would be better for all, even them, if they just destroyed the wraith. Then the ancients who didnt ascend could live happily, etc. It just seems very arrogant and seflish to "find and wake" the wraith on a "dark world", then find out how to ascend and then dissappear leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

I did like the "hispanic" accent though, it made her seem more alien. lol. Sounds stupid but the clothes and accent did make her seem a little "different" and more "ancient" to me. That's probably only 'cos I'm not hispanic though. :D

8/10

Bring on "Before I Sleep". Woohoo.

Z_2
November 30th, 2004, 04:04 PM
Great episode! I liked the comments by McKay to Shep that "the whole Captain Kirk routine is very problematic and morally dubious" when talking about how he was schmoozing with the "alien princess" and that it was very "1967" of him! Wonder if Sheppard will pine for Chaya Sar now?

Stargate Agent
November 30th, 2004, 04:39 PM
This was an amazing episode!!!

Great character development. The chemistry between the cast is getting better every episode and it is only the first season!!!

Some of the one liners are great, although some Star Trek reference seems to be a norm it is still placed well.

Very stylish writing on this one, if this kinda writing keeps up Atlantis is gonna be a force to be reckoned with in the future!!

Animaniac
November 30th, 2004, 04:45 PM
All in all a very good episode. It definitely cheered me up from a terrible day. My only disappointment is that Chaya didn't give us some cool Zen Koan-like lines. :)

Edit: How come we didn't see this scene (http://gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/graphics/1x3_02.shtml) in the episode? It was probably cut out. :S

Gothann
November 30th, 2004, 05:06 PM
Remember that we didn't see a few pics happening in The Rising and The Eye.

As for Athar, she was able to revert back to a humanoid form, then go back to being ascended, then went back to being a humanoid, then back to ascended, then back again.

Either she is always ascended and can modify her energy to fake out being human, or she can REALLY revert back to her original Ancient humanoid form and return to her energy form at will, when it's needed. Since she seems to have a lot of power, it might be because of that power that she can freely change to and fro so quickly.

Now let's get back on the Leonor Varela stuff, I liked her in Blade 2, but this time she truly shined. Her beauty was somewhat overshadowed by being a vampire in B2, but now we got to see her in great outfits and her hair flowing. (yeah, you could say I have a thing for long dark hair)

Positively Kanyon
November 30th, 2004, 06:01 PM
I think the Ascended beings can take any form they wish. I don't know why people are getting so confused about it.

Watch "Abyss" for example, Daniel was ascended but he chose to show himself to Daniel as a familiar face. A good example of this is the end of "Contact" starring Jodie Foster.

As for "Sanctuary" I quite enjoyed it. Lots of little subtle hints in it from a storyline perspective, plus I loved the Sheppard = Kirk comparisons that McKay was making (which I've been saying for weeks on this board!!!)

Definately the best line, after Chaya reveals why she came to Atlantis...

"Oh my God, he is Captain Kirk!"

DarkQuee1
November 30th, 2004, 08:03 PM
I don't see why everyone is always telling McKay to shut up. He always says what he's thinking, and he's really smart so they should listen to him. So what if what he says upsets a few people. Although his approach isn't always the best it feels like they always wait 'til something has happend then they ask him, and he says exactly what he thinks, without any diplomacy.


It may not be the lack of diplomacy so much as the fact that McKay has shot himself--and the "Tau'ri"--in the foot on occasion by flapping his gums too much!


J.

po134
November 30th, 2004, 08:31 PM
You're so how of the track, especially aAnubiSs, all the banned ancient know how to ascend, but the others, wich are already ascended, refuse them to do so, and stop them (as they did with Anubis).

don't worry aAnubiSs, I still think as for you, I love McKay and also think the way you do on that. They should listen to him, but we have to know that it is a US team, not a international as they wanna us to think it is, cause in civilized society in 2004, they listen to other people. sorry if i choked a few people who live in USA (Who are not Americans, cause canadians are also americans and i dont wanna be so if USA use americans to talk about them) but they have to agreed that this series really represent the reality of what they did in Irak :). I really love to see the really undetectable signs that the authors put in these series, I love to compare that "fiction" to the reality and laugh about USA military politics :) so funny !

As other idea, I would glady give a 10/10 for this episode 1 suspens, love, personnal problem, feedback to the main story-line, a few explaination at the end and still, a very large place for personnal interpretation ... to probably wait for SG-1 or SG-A season's final to see (I dont watch spoiler :))

The actress who play the new ancient is a top model =) :rolleyes: Sheppard must have be very happy to embrace her :cool: !
I wonder if they will talk about what sheppard will have learn in the next episode, it would be stupid if they don't ...

See u next week ;)

Major Tyler
November 30th, 2004, 09:29 PM
So an Ancient that was once ascended, but is no longer, still retains the ascended powers?
She can switch freely between being ascended and not.My theory on this is as follows:

When Ascended Ancients choose to return fully to human form, they loose the ability to re-ascend without the help of the others. I think that, because Athar's punishment was to forever defend Proculous, they allowed her to be able to alternate between forms to better serve that purpose. In that way she is unique.

She'd have to be human (or solid) in order to shag the Major. ;)

njsutorius
November 30th, 2004, 10:29 PM
omg this episode was so good I love how they are making atlantis!!.. this episode just makes me wonder even more and ask even more questions! are we there acedants omg to many things brain overload .. good episode

Major Tyler
November 30th, 2004, 10:31 PM
omg this episode was so good I love how they are making atlantis!!.. this episode just makes me wonder even more and ask even more questions! are we there acedants omg to many things brain overload .. good episodeWelcome to GateWorld, exuberant one. :D

Positively Kanyon
December 1st, 2004, 01:45 AM
When Ascended Ancients choose to return fully to human form, they loose the ability to re-ascend without the help of the others.

NO NO! NO!!

Why do people assume that when a person "descends" they lose the ability to ascend again? Do people just want to ignore my posts or something?

When you ascend, you become energy. That energy has the ability to take on any form they like. It's so simple yet people here need to make things complicated... and I blame that on the writers for using all that philosophical mumbo-jumbo from "Maternal Instinct" and "Meridian"

Angel of Fire SG1
December 1st, 2004, 02:01 AM
LOL Mumbo jumbo & ancients usually come together :P

I absolutely LOVED this episode!! Atlantis is getting better every week!!! So far there isn't an episode I DONT LIKE!!

ITS GREAT!! :D

I agree Kanyon, once they know how to ascend there's nothing to stop them ascending again.

Daniel for example basically had his ascension done for him...Oma ascended him. She also descended him

Therefore Daniel has not done the research and prior to his ascension did not know the process, after he was descended his memory was also wiped, obviously making sure he can't ascend again.

Well that's my opinion!!

But onto the episode:

I loved it!! The village looked NOTHING like the typical Vancouver forests we see in SG-1, it was actually different! And it was just cool! I loved the village!

And I'm a sucker for anything with the word "ancient" in it! LOL i LOVE the Ancients!!! And ahaha Sheppard got a giiiiirl!!

And i LOVE MCKAY!! EEEEEEEEEH!! He is SO FUNNY!!! LOL the whole Captain Kirk thing had me laughing so hard!!! :D :p I love him!!

OK...Ford....wat's going on??? He has less lines than Teal'c for crying out loud and he doesn't seem to have a character...and he gets more narky every week!!

Teyla's improving though ;) I like her now, I didn't like her earlier in the season!

Mio
December 1st, 2004, 03:15 AM
Not a bad episode. At least we finally got to see an Ancient!!

aAnubiSs
December 1st, 2004, 05:46 AM
Hah, soon enough I'll have enough followers to start my own club and then ascend. Then we'll be The Others making up the rules, and Mio will be banned to the J/S-ship thread for eternity :P

po134
December 1st, 2004, 06:22 AM
Major Tyler > your also so wrong, watch just when carter has recerveid his ban ancient's friend ... he was able to make him pure black light too, but he wasn't able to "modify" the world, cause the ancient refused to allow it. even if He could, the other watch them all the time, so in theory He could, but they would stop him if he trys ... but they wont stop the female ancient we've discover because they told her to do it !

Anyway I love this episode but the next will be better, I so hope sheppard will have get some knowledge or something like that =)

Major Tyler
December 1st, 2004, 08:24 AM
Why do people assume that when a person "descends" they lose the ability to ascend again?I "assume" that because Orlin says it in the season five episode "Ascension."

Do people just want to ignore my posts or something?Just because you post something doesn't make it true.

Major Tyler > your also so wrong, watch just when carter has recerveid his ban ancient's friend ... he was able to make him pure black light too, but he wasn't able to "modify" the world, cause the ancient refused to allow it. even if He could, the other watch them all the time, so in theory He could, but they would stop him if he trys ... but they wont stop the female ancient we've discover because they told her to do it !I'm sorry but I didn't understand any of that. I got the vague idea you're talking about Orlin, so here goes. Orlin could do anything an Ancient could do, he just couldn't leave Velona. When he took human form (fully, not just appeared as human) to be with Sam, he could not re-ascend without the others. When they went back to Velona, he was shot and about to die. The other Ancients helped him to ascend and gave him another chance. He used that chance to save Sam.

Wass
December 1st, 2004, 08:25 AM
Did anyone else notice that when the ancient turn in to energy form she looked different then what Oma looked when Daniel ascended.

Major Tyler
December 1st, 2004, 08:28 AM
Did anyone else notice that when the ancient turn in to energy form she looked different then what Oma looked when Daniel ascended.Maybe different Ancients have different ethereal appearances, just like we have different physical appearances.

Wass
December 1st, 2004, 08:38 AM
Could be but I have feeling it's more then that.

aAnubiSs
December 1st, 2004, 08:54 AM
It's a new company doing the special effects, hence some things will look a bit different.

waz
December 1st, 2004, 09:52 AM
Great ep, had everything, especially the girl.....she was hot!

Wass
December 1st, 2004, 11:22 AM
Great ep, had everything, especially the girl.....she was hot!


Calm down tiger :p , she’s taken :D

Wass
December 1st, 2004, 11:23 AM
It's a new company doing the special effects, hence some things will look a bit different.

Really didn’t know but for some reason I like to old version it just looks better.

alaskannut
December 1st, 2004, 12:12 PM
Calm down tiger :p , she’s taken :D
Yeah. By Me :D :p

*pulls out nuclear bomb in case anyone wants to argue* :p

veneticuss
December 1st, 2004, 12:19 PM
Really didn’t know but for some reason I like to old version it just looks better.
Well, you will have to get use to it ;)
Its not that bad actually
Though, it looks always looks like a mist and not and ascended

Wass
December 1st, 2004, 12:54 PM
Yeah. By Me :D :p

*pulls out nuclear bomb in case anyone wants to argue* :p

By me

*pulls out the H-Bomb in case anyone arguses* :p :D

aAnubiSs
December 1st, 2004, 12:56 PM
Walks by with a tollan phase shifter and grabs the girl. Bye bye :)

AsgardCarnage
December 1st, 2004, 01:56 PM
it seems to me people are confused about how they take human form, some people seem to think that everytime the ancients look human they are desending? they arn't! they are just changing the way they look. they dont lose powers or change anything but the way they look. to truly desend means to lose all powers and go back to your original form. the only reason orlin still knew all the ancient knowladge when he desended was because he was an ancient before hand.

HellBound
December 1st, 2004, 01:57 PM
Ah! This have to be my favorite episode :) Everyting is perfect..love it! :o
Cant wait for a new episode, atlantis have a nice first season..

Some nice wallpapers fo Leonor Varela :P

Wallpapers (http://www.sexydesktop.co.uk/varela.htm)

Major Tyler
December 1st, 2004, 02:09 PM
it seems to me people are confused about how they take human form, some people seem to think that everytime the ancients look human they are desending? they arn't! they are just changing the way they look. they dont lose powers or change anything but the way they look. to truly desend means to lose all powers and go back to your original form. the only reason orlin still knew all the ancient knowladge when he desended was because he was an ancient before hand.When an Ancient takes the appearance of a human, they are not solid, as Athar was. In "Ascension" Orlin had no physical form until he became entirely human and lost his powers. In "Abyss" Daniel appeared to Jack as a human, but Jack was able to throw a shoe through him, so he obviously was not fully human.

Athar, though, seemed to be able to alternate between forms at will. I believe the other Ancients gave her this unique ability so she could better defend Proculous. It is clear from everything we know about Ancients, that, with the obvious exception of Athar, once they retake human form, they cannot re-ascend without the others.

Mio
December 1st, 2004, 05:03 PM
When an Ancient takes the appearance of a human, they are not solid, as Athar was. In "Ascension" Orlin had no physical form until he became entirely human and lost his powers. In "Abyss" Daniel appeared to Jack as a human, but Jack was able to throw a shoe through him, so he obviously was not fully human.

Athar, though, seemed to be able to alternate between forms at will. I believe the other Ancients gave her this unique ability so she could better defend Proculous. It is clear from everything we know about Ancients, that, with the obvious exception of Athar, once they retake human form, they cannot re-ascend without the others. Or that Orlin just wasn't as good as Athar was at manipulating solid matter. ;) Might be an ability that took a great deal of time to master.... or their ascended abilities can vary from ascended being to ascended being for no apparent reason. We just don't know enough about the ascended ancients to come up with a real explanation. Hopefully we'll learn at some point next season.

kodamawu
December 1st, 2004, 05:34 PM
Or that Orlin just wasn't as good as Athar was at manipulating solid matter. ;) Might be an ability that took a great deal of time to master.... or their ascended abilities can vary from ascended being to ascended being for no apparent reason. We just don't know enough about the ascended ancients to come up with a real explanation. Hopefully we'll learn at some point next season.
maybe orlin was ascended but not an ancient? or maybe athar is just an older more powerful ancient or something... and i hope they bring her back

Gothann
December 1st, 2004, 06:25 PM
Although you all have intersting points, it's quite possible that most Ascended Ancients are all around the same age (give or take the lifespan of an Ancient). It may have been that Orlin was completely banished from the realm of the other Ancients, making any attempt to regain a human form a permanent one, or that Athar and the others of her cursed kind have been granted access to go to and fro ascencion, yet are bound to the protection of their own planet, forever.

AsgardCarnage
December 1st, 2004, 07:00 PM
opp's i forgot orlin couldn't touch anything.

i guess we will have to wait for the show to actully say what powers ancients have. maybe in season 8 of sg-1 "threads" i think it is will tell us for sure, or atleast give more detail

KayMan2k
December 1st, 2004, 09:12 PM
I was also glad that this episode confirms the Ancients did not refer to themselves as Ancients. Athar always made a point to say something like "those who you call the Ancients". My guess is that they are called Atlanteans (that is what the Wraith call them) and their capital city,their home, was Atlantis.

I had a feeling the whole time that Athar was an Atlantean. The way she walked around Atlantis felt like she has been there before.. and knows how every system works.. exactly. It must be funny to see us try to explain how some stuff works and what machines did what, etc...

Tok'Ra Hostess
December 1st, 2004, 09:41 PM
Firstly, this was another fine episode with solid performances by all - even poor Lt Lightly Used got to say a very dramatic "Yes, Sir!" (will this become his "Indeed?")

I wonder if we'll see Chaya Sar again in Before I sleep?

As to the Daniel/Orlin/Chaya Sar thing: Different punishments for different crimes is my guess.

This is how I imagine Ancient politics to be:

Daniel was enlisted into a cult that operates just at the threshold of what the Ancients tolerate. When Daniel even tried to interfere in "matters mortal," Oma had to act quickly to "discipline" her disciple in order to avoid the wrath of the big brass. It was the newbie, or her whole operation. Daniel got the boot - all of it - 100% return to mortal status, "let's not file any paperwork 'cause none of this happened, okay?" type stuff.

Orlin the Ancient-who-figured-out-how-to-ascend, disobeyed the (arrogant, IMO) Prime Directive of the Ancients, but, he being a short-sighted, soft-hearted right wing liberal or some such political leaning, he got a really severe punishment for his crime from the politically left-leaning Ancients in power( arbitrary labels given for the sake of example): Orlin was given the sentence of living the rest of eternity as a genie in a bottle - a being of light with PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER - in a itty bitty living space devoid of people, or he could retake mortal form and eventually die.

Chaya Sar probably killed as many Wraith as the Velonans killed Jaffa/Goa'uld, but she did the killing, whereas Orlin taught the mortal Velonans how to do the dirty work and then these mortals tried to conquor other worlds. Therefore it stands to reason that Chaya Sar's punishment, though severe, would not be as severe as Orlin's.

HellBound
December 1st, 2004, 09:44 PM
What happend to Sheppard in the end? What did Chaya Sar share with him?
If you look at pictures for the siege part 1 sheppard is useing the atlantis defence/attack chair.. Did he maybe get som more info\understanding of the atlantis? Maybe he find the chair..? Must say it one more time, this episode was so great, a magic episode..you can se to hive ships in this episode to :)

Hope we will see more of Chaya Sar, she was so great to be an "ancient" in the episode! :D

kodamawu
December 1st, 2004, 09:44 PM
ok this is kinda off the whole "ascended descended" thing (which personally i think its proposterous that we're just going to say that she descends temporarily, but whatever)
uhm for the images from the ep, was i not paying attention or did that scene with her touching the child's face not happen?

Hatcheter
December 1st, 2004, 11:20 PM
I can't believe everybody's overlooking the awesome vfx. The Wraith fleet at the end was amazing. Dozens of Darts buzzing around in every direction, and a pair of hive ships in the distance. We still haven't seen a close up of one of those things yet. They're (cruelly) wetting our appetites for 'The Seige", I think.

AsgardCarnage
December 2nd, 2004, 12:25 AM
are we sure them things at the back were hive ships? sure i only saw them for a second but they seemed a bit small to me maybe a diffrent type of ship like a command ship or something?

kodamawu
December 2nd, 2004, 03:47 AM
are we sure them things at the back were hive ships? sure i only saw them for a second but they seemed a bit small to me maybe a diffrent type of ship like a command ship or something?
thats a good point...

Wass
December 2nd, 2004, 04:11 AM
I alway's thought the Ancients were called the Atlanteans as the wraith refer to them. A;so I think Chaya Sar left some clues in shappered brain which will later help him.

Ancient-Jaron
December 2nd, 2004, 06:55 AM
I was also glad that this episode confirms the Ancients did not refer to themselves as Ancients. Athar always made a point to say something like "those who you call the Ancients". My guess is that they are called Atlanteans (that is what the Wraith call them) and their capital city,their home, was Atlantis.


I've thought about this a bit, and always came to the conclusion that they called themselves The Ancients, although I don't know why a race would call themselves that. For instance, all other races referred to them in this way, even races that were seemingly on the same level (Asgard, for instance). Why would the Asgard call them anything but what they called themselves? Surely the Asgard looked up to the Ancients, but even so, I would think they would refer to the Ancients as they knew them, which is probably how the Ancients referred to themselevs.

The other thing is "Nou ani Anquitas". They did write that, although I suppose we could have botched the translation. Although, a person with the Ancient's knowledge did aid in the translation (Jack, The Fifth Race)

AJ

Wass
December 2nd, 2004, 07:05 AM
Maybe the changed there name when they came back from Pegasus :p

Gothann
December 2nd, 2004, 12:07 PM
As for the "Sharing", Chaya Sar is an ancient, so was Orlin. Orlin shared with (at the time) Major Carter and they were able to share emotions and some experiences. I'm guessing the same thing happened to Sheppard, but just like Carter he doesn't have any Ancient knowledge.

Merlin7
December 2nd, 2004, 12:13 PM
As for the "Sharing", Chaya Sar is an ancient, so was Orlin. Orlin shared with (at the time) Major Carter and they were able to share emotions and some experiences. I'm guessing the same thing happened to Sheppard, but just like Carter he doesn't have any Ancient knowledge.

Carter doesn't have the ancient gene though. My impression is that Chaya wasn't attracted to Sheppard in the same way he was with her. That maybe she sensed his GENE so to speak. So maybe she was able to SHARE more with him because of it. Which I hope is the case. The whole point of Sheppard going to Atlantis was his ability to use the Gene beyond anyone else. SGA needs to make that MEAN Something. That they point out his unique ability to manipulate his fabricated reality in HOME led me to believe it was the show's way of saying that Sheppard is special too. Being that he's the only one with no knowledge of anything STARGATE related before the trip...it would make for very interesting story telling.

Gothann
December 2nd, 2004, 12:21 PM
Carter doesn't have the ancient gene though. My impression is that Chaya wasn't attracted to Sheppard in the same way he was with her. That maybe she sensed his GENE so to speak. So maybe she was able to SHARE more with him because of it. Which I hope is the case. The whole point of Sheppard going to Atlantis was his ability to use the Gene beyond anyone else. SGA needs to make that MEAN Something. That they point out his unique ability to manipulate his fabricated reality in HOME led me to believe it was the show's way of saying that Sheppard is special too. Being that he's the only one with no knowledge of anything STARGATE related before the trip...it would make for very interesting story telling.
Although your reasoning is sound, it's also flawed. McKay is on the Gene therapy, yet he couldn't manipulate his own reality in Home. He also didn't attract Chaya, either (of course, it might be because of his annoying rants at her "beliefs").

Though, I'm quite sure that Sheppard having the gene has nothing to do with the sharing. The gene seems to only be an ID marker which is recognizable by ATA machines, with the mind-control being part of the technology tapping into the minds of the user.

Here's the last part. Chaya seems overjoyed to be in the presence of Sheppard, it almost seems purely emotional...

TechnoBoY
December 2nd, 2004, 12:33 PM
Did Sheppard have sex with whats her face? In another board I go to their talking like he did. Did he? Huh Huh?

I thought the ep was okay. Not that great but pretty good. Atlantis is living beyond my expectations so far.

keppiezbt
December 2nd, 2004, 12:45 PM
Did Sheppard have sex with whats her face? In another board I go to their talking like he did. Did he? Huh Huh?

I thought the ep was okay. Not that great but pretty good. Atlantis is living beyond my expectations so far.

they banged like jackrabbits..i mean they were doing full graphic porn. wow

Wass
December 2nd, 2004, 12:57 PM
LOL, I bet they did

Z_2
December 2nd, 2004, 01:21 PM
Did he? Huh Huh?

http://s04.imagehost.org/0886/chayanjohn.jpg
Well, you can't tell by looking at the fx-enhanced pic... What do you think the actors were really doing where it's "lit"?!?
Thumb wrestling? :)

Major Tyler
December 2nd, 2004, 01:25 PM
Did Sheppard have sex with whats her face?Based on their behavior after the picnic, and John's "not having slept last night" when Rodney asks him, we can reasonably assume that they did indeed have sex.

kodamawu
December 2nd, 2004, 03:39 PM
Based on their behavior after the picnic, and John's "not having slept last night" when Rodney asks him, we can reasonably assume that they did indeed have sex.
i thought about that, however, if they had sex, why would shep just get up and start walking around. plus, wouldnt he be wearing pajamas or something instead of his full out military gear? and shouldnt chaya be wearing one of shep's oversized t-shirts and no pants? i think we will be stuck speculating for a long time, until she gets pregnant and asks shep to help support the child... new harsisus anyone?

Icegod
December 2nd, 2004, 03:52 PM
can ascended ancients even have sex? Or a child for that matter. :D

Gothann
December 2nd, 2004, 05:07 PM
can ascended ancients even have sex? Or a child for that matter. :D
Probably not a child, sex is a different thing, but seeing as how Athar can take *human* form, I'm betting she can do both very much like any human can.

Oh, and if you call Sharing "sex", what about Carter and Orlin?

Mio
December 2nd, 2004, 05:10 PM
The other thing is "Nou ani Anquitas". They did write that, although I suppose we could have botched the translation. Although, a person with the Ancient's knowledge did aid in the translation (Jack, The Fifth Race)
Anquitas would be latin for Ancient, I'm guessing?

The word Anquitas was probably what (in the language of the Ancients) their race was called.

And when Latin was formed off of Ancient, the word Anquiatas was changed to mean 'old' (Ancient!)

Tada!

Merlin7
December 2nd, 2004, 05:18 PM
Although your reasoning is sound, it's also flawed. McKay is on the Gene therapy, yet he couldn't manipulate his own reality in Home. He also didn't attract Chaya, either (of course, it might be because of his annoying rants at her "beliefs").

Though, I'm quite sure that Sheppard having the gene has nothing to do with the sharing. The gene seems to only be an ID marker which is recognizable by ATA machines, with the mind-control being part of the technology tapping into the minds of the user.

Here's the last part. Chaya seems overjoyed to be in the presence of Sheppard, it almost seems purely emotional...

Beckett has it too. But he's not as good at it as Shep. And as for Rodney. He has it but it was injected into him. Which still actually bugs me. I preferred Rodney not having it. But that aside. Because he wasn't BORN with it. I'm of the belief Rodney won't have the same abilities as someone who was born with it. It can't be the same as it is for Shep or even Beckett. To me it's a bit like getting and organ transplant. You can have an absolute match from a donor but it's still not the same as the one you're born with naturally.

Gothann
December 2nd, 2004, 05:18 PM
Before people start quoting me and talk about harcesis, I'm guessing any child born from Athar's human form (Chaya) would be human, mortal, and whatnot.


Beckett has it too. But he's not as good at it as Shep. And as for Rodney. He has it but it was injected into him. Which still actually bugs me. I preferred Rodney not having it. But that aside. Because he wasn't BORN with it. I'm of the belief Rodney won't have the same abilities as someone who was born with it. It can't be the same as it is for Shep or even Beckett. To me it's a bit like getting and organ transplant. You can have an absolute match from a donor but it's still not the same as the one you're born with naturally.
Let me state that Athar didn't warm up to Beckett in the least, keeping her act together and being semi-cold to him, while acting all curious about everything.

As for the gene, though Sheppard can "control" things better, that's mostly due to his profession. He's military, and focusing on flying a ship or firing a shot is quite easy for someone who's a pilot. Beckett was extremely scared of the chair when he used it and is very unsecure about himself, leading to instability in the mind-control of ATA devices. I'm pretty sure that if the gene was the cause for the manipulation of the realities in Home, Beckett would have been able to as well.

kodamawu
December 2nd, 2004, 06:41 PM
Before people start quoting me and talk about harcesis, I'm guessing any child born from Athar's human form (Chaya) would be human, mortal, and whatnot.


Let me state that Athar didn't warm up to Beckett in the least, keeping her act together and being semi-cold to him, while acting all curious about everything.

As for the gene, though Sheppard can "control" things better, that's mostly due to his profession. He's military, and focusing on flying a ship or firing a shot is quite easy for someone who's a pilot. Beckett was extremely scared of the chair when he used it and is very unsecure about himself, leading to instability in the mind-control of ATA devices. I'm pretty sure that if the gene was the cause for the manipulation of the realities in Home, Beckett would have been able to as well.
yea but i dont think that the manipulation in home had anything to do with the gene, the fog ppl werent ancients by any means, if they were they wouldve said something because they could read the team's minds. the pilot theory might have something to do with shep's natural ability to focus and control things, but ultimately we dont really know why shep is special, he just is.

Merlin7
December 2nd, 2004, 07:32 PM
Before people start quoting me and talk about harcesis, I'm guessing any child born from Athar's human form (Chaya) would be human, mortal, and whatnot.


Let me state that Athar didn't warm up to Beckett in the least, keeping her act together and being semi-cold to him, while acting all curious about everything.

As for the gene, though Sheppard can "control" things better, that's mostly due to his profession. He's military, and focusing on flying a ship or firing a shot is quite easy for someone who's a pilot. Beckett was extremely scared of the chair when he used it and is very unsecure about himself, leading to instability in the mind-control of ATA devices. I'm pretty sure that if the gene was the cause for the manipulation of the realities in Home, Beckett would have been able to as well.

Believe it or not...what you're saying just leads me to believe all the more that ..or maybe I should say HOPE that... TPTB do something with Sheppard and his Gene. And that maybe what happened with him and Chaya at that end is a hint of things that might come in that regard. I still believe her attraction to John went deeper than a physical thing or the desire to not be alone. THanks for the thoughts.

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 04:53 AM
Haven't read the thread yet so forgive any repetition, but by golly, did I hate this ep! I'm sorry, but just because McKay runs around screaming "Kirk" every five minutes doesn't make it OK that they are pulling a Kirk. Unless it's done well, it's absolutely the LOWEST form of episode "development" and IMO, it wasn't done well.

I didn't like the characterizations of McKay and Sheppard in Sanctuary. I know McKay can be a bit of a jerk sometimes, but it isn't necessary to continuously hammer the point home and while Sheppard can be a bit stubborn, I found him unecessarily self-centered and self-serving with his blatant pursuit of the "alien priestess".

Chaya herself didn't interest me at all. She's too much like other characters we've already met and I don't think she adds anything to the story. A handful of dialogue here or there that might turn out to be important later, but that could easily have been handed in a more tactful and intelligent manner.

For someone who didn't even know what Ascension was, Sheppard showed absolutely no reaction at all to his girlfriend turning into a glowy octopus. Knowing something happens and seeing it happen are two different things and it might have been nice to see Shep react with something other than a blank, dopey look on his face.

We already know that the Ancients have a "hands off" pocily, we already know that they're capable of great destruction when they put their minds to it (if you'll pardon the pun), we already know that they ban anyone who breaks the rules and personally, I always knew there were Ancients still floating around the Pegasus galaxy. I don't see what we've really gained from this except visual confirmation that the Ancients ARE still here and that in Chaya's case, it isn't going to do us any good.

Wass
December 3rd, 2004, 05:04 AM
You made some good points shadow as always :p , I liked this episode but I agree with you it could have been better and we learnt nothing new expect that the ancients are still around. Now what would make this episode better is if it's connected to future story arcs which I have feeling it might be.

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 05:24 AM
You made some good points shadow as always :p , I liked this episode but I agree with you it could have been better and we learnt nothing new expect that the ancients are still around. Now what would make this episode better is if it's connected to future story arcs which I have feeling it might be.
It had better connect up with a future storyline. I didn't sit through that garbage just for a one-off ep never to be referenced again. However, if it IS going to be referenced in the future, I think it would have been nice if it had been a strong, memorable story with oodles of development and off-hand comments which eventually come to have significance rather than this predictible dreck-fest of re-hashed Trek plots and regurgitated SG-1 information.

Wass
December 3rd, 2004, 05:31 AM
It had better connect up with a future storyline. I didn't sit through that garbage just for a one-off ep never to be referenced again. However, if it IS going to be referenced in the future, I think it would have been nice if it had been a strong, memorable story with oodles of development and off-hand comments which eventually come to have significance rather than this predictible dreck-fest of re-hashed Trek plots and regurgitated SG-1 information.


LOL, Hey shadow I think TPTB have got the message, don’t hurt them now :p . I’m waiting for what looks to be like the best episode of the season next week.

astronomicalchick
December 3rd, 2004, 05:37 AM
It had better connect up with a future storyline. I didn't sit through that garbage just for a one-off ep never to be referenced again. However, if it IS going to be referenced in the future, I think it would have been nice if it had been a strong, memorable story with oodles of development and off-hand comments which eventually come to have significance rather than this predictible dreck-fest of re-hashed Trek plots and regurgitated SG-1 information.

I haven't seen the episode, but I do hope it was more than just "Did Shep boink the hottie or not?"

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 05:47 AM
I haven't seen the episode, but I do hope it was more than just "Did Shep boink the hottie or not?"
Oh, there was more to it than that. There was also McKay running around, waving his arms and screaming "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" :P

Emi
December 3rd, 2004, 07:41 AM
The most interesting thing to me about this episode is Chaya/Athar's choice to protect her people from the Wraith for all time. How far do you think the protection goes? Does Athar solve all their major problems (sickness, hunger, etc), or does she only protect them from the Wraith with perhaps some spiritual guidance thrown in?

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 07:49 AM
Chaya was sentenced to protect her people for all time... and she's also pretty much doomed them all to a permanent existence on her planet. They're so healthy, and so non-violent and so... culturally naive that they wouldn't last very long if NOT under her protection. The potential for diseases alone... I was actually kind of surprised Chaya didn't come down with something while on Atlantis, but I guess her being an Ancient protects her. Or are we to understand that ALL of her people are basically invincible to germs/disease? That still leaves the fact that it's an unsafe universe out there and not everyone is so 100% goodly and graceful as Athar's people.

Wass
December 3rd, 2004, 08:29 AM
I haven't seen the episode, but I do hope it was more than just "Did Shep boink the hottie or not?"

Mackay was also screaming the fact that “she is alien impostor but she is pretty so perttyyyyyyy, now step aside Major Shapperd she is coming with me tonight." :p

kodamawu
December 3rd, 2004, 10:36 AM
The most interesting thing to me about this episode is Chaya/Athar's choice to protect her people from the Wraith for all time. How far do you think the protection goes? Does Athar solve all their major problems (sickness, hunger, etc), or does she only protect them from the Wraith with perhaps some spiritual guidance thrown in?
i think the sickness and hunger bit traces back to her powers

FoolishPleasure
December 3rd, 2004, 10:51 AM
I haven't seen the episode, but I do hope it was more than just "Did Shep boink the hottie or not?"

From what I have heard, the consensus on this episode seems to be, "Chaya was one hot chick!"

I have not seen this episode, but do I really want to look forward to an episode devoted to a "hot chick" making out with Sheppard (who seems like he comes across as rather "easy" himself)? Uh. . nope.

Does "Sanctuary" give us more info on the Ancients (other than they look " hot")? Do we learn any more about the Wraith (other than the CGI was excellent)? Is the overall SGA storyarc developed/expanded in any way? Or is this truly only "Sheppard makes out with hot alien chick"?

Yes, I'll probably cave in and watch the episode whenever SciFi decides to show it in the States, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

"Siege", on the other hand, looks really cool!

kodamawu
December 3rd, 2004, 11:41 AM
From what I have heard, the consensus on this episode seems to be, "Chaya was one hot chick!"

I have not seen this episode, but do I really want to look forward to an episode devoted to a "hot chick" making out with Sheppard (who seems like he comes across as rather "easy" himself)? Uh. . nope.

Does "Sanctuary" give us more info on the Ancients (other than they look " hot")? Do we learn any more about the Wraith (other than the CGI was excellent)? Is the overall SGA storyarc developed/expanded in any way? Or is this truly only "Sheppard makes out with hot alien chick"?

Yes, I'll probably cave in and watch the episode whenever SciFi decides to show it in the States, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

"Siege", on the other hand, looks really cool!
this episode does not directly further the story line in anyway, it might have some sort of impact in the future, but we dont know yet. we learn a little about the ancients, and we learn nothing about the wraith. oh and we discover a new machine that scans lifesigns for any irregulaties

Liv
December 3rd, 2004, 12:45 PM
Oy.

Well, I guess the streak of great episodes had to end sometime. This ranks as my least favorite episode of the season, along with Childhood's End. No, actually, I liked Childhood's End better.

Enough with the Captain Kirk references already. Three times in this episode alone, FCOL! Sheppard is not Kirk, nor should he be. Just let the character develop on his own, without constantly throwing in those clumpsy lines that are supposed to be funny, but really - not so much. I just hope the writers have gotten it out of their system by now.

I wish they would go at least one episode without having McKay react to impending doom in his trademark way. Well, that's a bit unfair, because they have, and in previous episodes I haven't had any objections to it at all. Hide and Seek was funny. 38 Minutes was early on in the season and didn't hammer the point home. Hot Zone was very poignant. But in this one it was overdone. I think we've got it by now, thank you.

What was good:

- Weir's "Of course he has."

- Teyla's line about the late night picnic. The picnic itself was cringe-worthy, but her delivery was pretty funny.

- The "NO!" in unison, when Sheppard asks if he and Chaya could have a moment to themselves in the conference room.

~

Every season is allowed to have at least one episode that isn't up to the usual standard, especially since we're still in the first season. I think they've spoiled me with the last four episodes which, IMO, were amazing. Now, let's get back on track with Before I Sleep. :)

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 01:15 PM
The guy who wrote this ep, Alan Brennert, has also written for Enterprise. Not that that means anything, necessarily, just thought I'd throw that out there. ;)

If you ask me, some of the characterizations in this ep were WAY off. Alan has no idea what McKay's about and not much clue with Sheppard, either. Weir was OK, but I spent most of the ep giggling at her just 'cause I kept remembering Torri at the convention this past weekend. ;) Chaya came off as very flat and ininteresting, too. I guess Sexy Alien Females don't need any personality. And can I just complain AGAIN about the stereotype of women who seem to base all of their decisions on sex?? Can't we do something of our own volition WITHOUT it having to be about some hot guy?? *grinds teeth* Sorry, but that's getting to be a sore point with me, particularly in the Stargate universe...

FoolishPleasure
December 3rd, 2004, 01:47 PM
The guy who wrote this ep, Alan Brennert, has also written for Enterprise. Not that that means anything, necessarily, just thought I'd throw that out there. ;)

Ugh. I gave up on "Enterprise" because of its poor portrayal of women characters.

If I want to watch "The OC", I'll turn on Fox. When I want intelligent science fiction, hopefully SG1 & SGA will be there for me.

Liv
December 3rd, 2004, 01:57 PM
The guy who wrote this ep, Alan Brennert, has also written for Enterprise. Not that that means anything, necessarily, just thought I'd throw that out there. ;)
That might explain a few things, yes. ;)

Agreed on the characterization being off. In some ways the script felt as a rehash of sorts, with the romance being thrown in there for the sake of it simply being in there - without any real connection to the storyline.

Now, what was the storyline again? Oh, right, they stumbled upon an Ancient. Somehow, that got lost in there. I wonder why. :p

Tok'Ra Hostess
December 3rd, 2004, 01:59 PM
And can I just complain AGAIN about the stereotype of women who seem to base all of their decisions on sex?? Can't we do something of our own volition WITHOUT it having to be about some hot guy?? *grinds teeth* Sorry, but that's getting to be a sore point with me, particularly in the Stargate universe...


<shrugs> No more so than that male, Orlin.

It's true, sometimes they do go the sexual attraction route, but not every time; what about that cute doctor from PtW?

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 02:06 PM
<shrugs> No more so than that male, Orlin.
OK, then people in general. And I'm not saying ALL decisions are based on sex, obviously, but Character A's attraction to Character B has been a pivotal plot point on a number of occasions in SG-1 and I'd prefer not to see it become common on Atlantis as well.

Major Tyler
December 3rd, 2004, 03:12 PM
When girls swoon it's called thunking...when guys swoon it's called being a pig. :rolleyes:

Mio
December 3rd, 2004, 03:58 PM
I was actually kind of surprised Chaya didn't come down with something while on Atlantis, but I guess her being an Ancient protects her. Or are we to understand that ALL of her people are basically invincible to germs/disease?
She was ascended, for one.....

alaskannut
December 3rd, 2004, 08:33 PM
Walks by with a tollan phase shifter and grabs the girl. Bye bye :)
#$%%$^ tollan phase shifter!! :p :D

Mr. Seven
December 3rd, 2004, 10:57 PM
Very nice episode. The Star Trek references are starting to get a bit much, but they are actually pretty funny most of the time, so who cares.

It's awesome that they meant an Ancient. I thought it would be until at least Season 2.

That last episode was tough to top, but this one did it.

Alpha17X
December 4th, 2004, 02:54 AM
She was ascended, for one.....

and the left the Sol system to get away from the plague. We can safely assume that they didn't bring it with them.

keppiezbt
December 4th, 2004, 10:44 AM
It had better connect up with a future storyline. I didn't sit through that garbage just for a one-off ep never to be referenced again. However, if it IS going to be referenced in the future, I think it would have been nice if it had been a strong, memorable story with oodles of development and off-hand comments which eventually come to have significance rather than this predictible dreck-fest of re-hashed Trek plots and regurgitated SG-1 information.


this was a good episodes people. sure we didnt learn anything really new about the ancients but i think this is a good reference to show hey some ancients are around....and maybe in a future episodes they will go back.

they are going to give away everything in one episodes...they probably have a few season to spread this out. if they told you everything now, what fun would that be

ShadowMaat
December 4th, 2004, 10:51 AM
this was a good episodes people.
You think it's a good ep, and that's fine. I simply disagree with your assessment. :)

And I'm not saying that I want to know everything immediately. That would be stupid. But I want to be entertained, I want the plots to be coherent and at least semi-relevant and I don't want to have to dig through layers of effluvia to find ONE tiny worthwhile tidbit.

Give us something wild and crazy and full of red herrings and bury the important fact in the middle of it all so we at least have something to play with while we're looking. ;)

PlaZ
December 4th, 2004, 11:04 AM
for a spin off series the creators maybe felt that it necessary to mention the facts about the ancients once again. dont forget that we only know everything we know after having watched 8 seasons of sg1. sg-a watchers who are just becoming gaters may have needed this ep to get a feeling for the whole ancient thang!
jm2c

Ace-SG1-
December 4th, 2004, 04:56 PM
any one knows if one of the seens was film in Hawaii??? cuz if so ill be pissed OFF!!!!

Major Tyler
December 4th, 2004, 06:14 PM
any one knows if one of the seens was film in Hawaii??? cuz if so ill be pissed OFF!!!!Why would that upset you?

veneticuss
December 5th, 2004, 02:08 AM
any one knows if one of the seens was film in Hawaii??? cuz if so ill be pissed OFF!!!!
I think it was all filmed in canada.
Why should they fly to Hawai just for a couple of scenes?

Gothann
December 5th, 2004, 05:59 AM
any one knows if one of the seens was film in Hawaii??? cuz if so ill be pissed OFF!!!!
No, I'm guessing it was a set made in Canada. As for the looks of the people in the town, NO, they're not trying to imitate Hawaii's culture. There are no such references to past or current cultures in Atlantis (hence why Daniel isn't needed here. ^_^)

Wass
December 5th, 2004, 12:20 PM
It would have cost them to much to film it in Hawii any way.

astronomicalchick
December 5th, 2004, 01:00 PM
That might explain a few things, yes. ;)

Agreed on the characterization being off. In some ways the script felt as a rehash of sorts, with the romance being thrown in there for the sake of it simply being in there - without any real connection to the storyline.

Now, what was the storyline again? Oh, right, they stumbled upon an Ancient. Somehow, that got lost in there. I wonder why. :p

Hey Liv ((((((((((Liv))))))))))))

I can't get any feel to what this episode was about except a good looking alien chick and Sheppard getting it together, and McKay running around like a headless chicken...

Hmm...

astronomicalchick
December 5th, 2004, 01:06 PM
When girls swoon it's called thunking...when guys swoon it's called being a pig. :rolleyes:

You guys should have your own... er..... thingy thread. Not sure that you thunk exactly... no! dont tell me I don't want to know.. :)

Gothann
December 5th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Awwright, let me go off-convo for a bit and ask one question...

I THINK I saw a reference in McKay's dialogue, though I'm not sure if I'm right.


Grodin: It seems to be an internal, external, biosensor.
McKay: Sadly, I know what that means. Where did all of those Saturday nights go...

Erm, I assume he's refering to the airtime of new Star Trek episodes here in Canada, usually being on Saturdays (when DS9 and Voyager were playing, it was usually Saturdays that the new eps would air).

Anyone else have any idea as to what show he's refering to?

ShadowMaat
December 5th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Anyone else have any idea as to what show he's refering to?
Not knowing the show schedules of Canada, I just assumed he meant he spent Saturday nights studying. Or, at least, reading random weird science geek things. :P

Easter Lily
December 5th, 2004, 03:36 PM
this episode does not directly further the story line in anyway, it might have some sort of impact in the future, but we dont know yet. we learn a little about the ancients, and we learn nothing about the wraith. oh and we discover a new machine that scans lifesigns for any irregulaties

An amusing and silly episode...
I don't care if we don't learn anything more about the ancients or the Wraith or about the tech of that galaxy but I'm not very keen on the idea that our very cool and smart Major suddenly (suddenly being the operative word)becomes a sucker for a pretty face (and a rather dull one at that). (Or perhaps being stuck with Weir and Teyla is really getting to him) I don't think that I'm that naive to think that nobody is going to cast their eye over Sheppard during the course of the expedition but really, the guy lost all sense of reason!
I'm hoping against hope that all this is telling us something significant about Sheppard... that he is some Ancient reborn or some such thing. Otherwise, the episode will stay in my mind as comic relief.
Less testosterone and more of the closet mathematical genius please...

kodamawu
December 5th, 2004, 04:31 PM
An amusing and silly episode...
I don't care if we don't learn anything more about the ancients or the Wraith or about the tech of that galaxy but I'm not very keen on the idea that our very cool and smart Major suddenly (suddenly being the operative word)becomes a sucker for a pretty face (and a rather dull one at that). (Or perhaps being stuck with Weir and Teyla is really getting to him) I don't think that I'm that naive to think that nobody is going to cast their eye over Sheppard during the course of the expedition but really, the guy lost all sense of reason!
I'm hoping against hope that all this is telling us something significant about Sheppard... that he is some Ancient reborn or some such thing. Otherwise, the episode will stay in my mind as comic relief.
Less testosterone and more of the closet mathematical genius please...
hey dont get me wrong, just cus i dont think this episode didnt really serve much purpose in furthering the story line, doesnt mean i didnt love it. i thought it was a great episode, and i hope we see more of the ancient chick in the future.

Gothann
December 5th, 2004, 05:22 PM
hey dont get me wrong, just cus i dont think this episode didnt really serve much purpose in furthering the story line, doesnt mean i didnt love it. i thought it was a great episode, and i hope we see more of the ancient chick in the future.
So long as Athar doesn't become a recurring character, since seeing Sheppard getting serious with an Ascended Ancient is folly.

Vyse
December 6th, 2004, 07:49 AM
Really enjoyed the episode, atlantis rocks so far. I LOVED it when McKay said "Oh my God, he is Kirk"! I couldn't stop laughing! McKay is definetly my favorite character on the show.

kodamawu
December 6th, 2004, 10:12 AM
So long as Athar doesn't become a recurring character, since seeing Sheppard getting serious with an Ascended Ancient is folly.
hey, im all for her becoming a recurring character, not a regular, but id like to see her again, not talking like every other ep, but once or twice more (this season) would be nice.

Blueicus
December 6th, 2004, 10:57 AM
McKay's rampant paranoia/jealousy of Sheppard in this episode struck me as a bit off, does anyone else think so as well? And I loved the part where everyone yelled "No!" when Sheppard asked for private time.

ShadowMaat
December 6th, 2004, 11:56 AM
I thought that McKay and Sheppard were both wildly out of character in this ep. McKay isn't THAT rabid and Sheppard isn't that sex-starved.

Wass
December 6th, 2004, 12:16 PM
I agree with shadow although I understand Mckays character being arrogant and always moaning about something I think it was overdone a bit and as for sheppard wouldn't any man be mesmerise by a beautiful woman.

ShadowMaat
December 6th, 2004, 01:19 PM
as for sheppard wouldn't any man be mesmerise by a beautiful woman.
Mesmerised? Maybe. So completely captivated as to forget everything and everyone around you without drugs or mind control being involved? I sincerely hope not. Let's hope this was a one-off and that it doesn't become a recurring character trait for Sheppard.

FoolishPleasure
December 6th, 2004, 01:22 PM
I agree with shadow although I understand Mckays character being arrogant and always moaning about something I think it was overdone a bit and as for sheppard wouldn't any man be mesmerise by a beautiful woman.

Sheppard just never seemed the type to jump on a "hot chick" almost immediately.

I'm with Shadow. . .hoping this doesn't become a regular character trait. I prefer Sheppard as a "thinking" person. .not a hormonal one.

Major Tyler
December 6th, 2004, 01:25 PM
Mesmerised? Maybe. So completely captivated as to forget everything and everyone around you without drugs or mind control being involved?Maybe Ancient females have super-pheromones that us human men cannot resist. :rolleyes:

FoolishPleasure
December 6th, 2004, 01:35 PM
Let's bring Chaya back but find out she is totally evil. . .she has Sheppard totally under her spell, and moves on the other men of SGA.

No. . wait. That was "Hathor". Hmmm. I liked Hathor. Nothing like a good, beautiful and EVIL woman. :D

fair_nymph
December 6th, 2004, 10:41 PM
Did Sheppard have sex with whats her face?


Based on their behavior after the picnic, and John's "not having slept last night" when Rodney asks him, we can reasonably assume that they did indeed have sex.

I'm pretty positive that Shep and Chaya did NOT have sex, because of the way that Shep responded at the end when Chaya offered that they 'share themselves' -- Shep's 'okay' seemed to indicate, to me at least, that he thought by that she meant having sex -- a reasonable assumption. If they had had sex, wouldn't he have responded by saying 'um, didn't we already *smirk* 'share ourselves'?'

In response to Shadow's bashing of the episode:

One of your main complaints was that the episode doesn't provide any new info about the ancients. What you are forgetting here, though, is that probably not ALL SGA viewers have seen SG-1. I fall into this category, because I have never had TV, and I like to watch things from the beginning. So I know virtually *nothing* about the ancients, and this episode was VERY enlightening for me as a result. So please, keep in mind, not EVERY person watching SGA is a seasoned SG-1 expert. And thank god, TPTB seem to realize this.

In response to Shep falling for Chaya:

I don't think it's fair to criticize Shep so harshly for being interested in Chaya, and I definitely don't think she is 'just another pretty face' -- or that that was how he viewed her. Shep is very intuitive and sensitive to his surroundings (as we witnessed in Home), so I think it's safe to assume that he sensed, even if merely unconsciously, something special about Chaya. Also, while I'm sure he DID want to shag her (and who can blame him?), why couldn't he also be playing the romantic card to get more info out of her and to try and secure the treaty of sanctuary on her planet? In any case, thinking Shep was just after a bit of fun is oversimplication. As in most cases, he almost certainly had several motives.

ShadowMaat
December 7th, 2004, 04:25 AM
One of your main complaints was that the episode doesn't provide any new info about the ancients. What you are forgetting here, though, is that probably not ALL SGA viewers have seen SG-1. I fall into this category, because I have never had TV, and I like to watch things from the beginning. So I know virtually *nothing* about the ancients, and this episode was VERY enlightening for me as a result. So please, keep in mind, not EVERY person watching SGA is a seasoned SG-1 expert. And thank god, TPTB seem to realize this.
That was pointed out to me already. However, bigger than the fact that "we already know this" is the fact that it was, IMO, presented in one of the most unoriginal, unrealistic ways possible and with little or no effort made to make it "unique". Boy meets Girl. Boy falls for Girl. Girl isn't what Boy thinks. Cue the credits. When I say that there's nothing new in this ep, I mean in every respect, not just the stuff about the Ancients. ;)

But like I said, hopefully it's just a one-off and the rest of the season will be a lot better.

Major Tyler
December 7th, 2004, 09:47 AM
Boy meets Girl. Boy falls for Girl. Girl isn't what Boy thinks. Cue the credits.From my perspective, it seemed like she fell for Sheppard a lot harder than he fell for her. She was willing to leave her charge of defending Proculous just to be with John for a little while.

And don't forget her super-pheromones! :P

Wass
December 7th, 2004, 10:10 AM
Well what do you expect the girl has spent 10, 000 years alone :rolleyes:

Easter Lily
December 7th, 2004, 01:34 PM
Well what do you expect the girl has spent 10, 000 years alone :rolleyes:

The proverbial genie in a bottle that makes all of men's dreams come true, eh? :p Frankly I preferred Robin Williams. :D

Wass
December 7th, 2004, 01:40 PM
Robin Williams :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

joanne1138
December 22nd, 2004, 08:08 AM
After I looked up the meaning of Kolya's name which turned out to mean 'of the conquering people' I have now started randomly looking up the name meanings of guest characters. So far they have proved to be oddly accurate.

Chaya Sar:

Chaya - 'life giver'
Sar - 'noble ruler'

TPTB do their research ;)

lord-anubis
January 5th, 2005, 01:25 PM
im i the only one who thinks mckay all most lost it in is ep. even when that girl said she was a a Ancient even mckay was shocked. i bet even he though he was going a little carzy

joanne1138
January 5th, 2005, 01:38 PM
I tried to write down what bugged me about this episode and I ended up with a page and a half A4. As I appear to be th only one who disliked it I will shut up. I guess it's OK, but little things bugged me.

About McKay I thought that too. The guy's been through a lot, though, capture by the Genii, torture, friend commiting suicide in front of him, near death by terrifying hallucinogenic virus, colleagues dying from the same thing around him so soon after Gaul and Abhams, so I guess he has an excuse to be cranky.

Quinn Mallory
January 17th, 2005, 07:23 AM
But like I said, hopefully it's just a one-off and the rest of the season will be a lot better.

I think on both SG-1 and Atlantis, they try to have shows of different natures to break the monotony. So a more romantic show was penned after 4 pretty intense episodes.

I fall in the category of the people who think this episode was good (loved those one-liners) but not great (compared to the last 4-5 episodes). I do think it is a nice change of pace episode at this point of the season, though.

Q

p.s. I guess there weren't much behind the scene romance brewing between Sheppard and Teyla.

NotANumber
January 17th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Chaya was sentenced to protect her people for all time... and she's also pretty much doomed them all to a permanent existence on her planet. They're so healthy, and so non-violent and so... culturally naive that they wouldn't last very long if NOT under her protection. The potential for diseases alone...
I was wondering about this as well. I found it interesting that there were a few Maoi head statues from Rapa Nui / Easter Island to be seen about the village as the team took a look around at the beginning of the ep.

Easter Lily
January 17th, 2005, 11:46 PM
I tried to write down what bugged me about this episode and I ended up with a page and a half A4. As I appear to be th only one who disliked it I will shut up. I guess it's OK, but little things bugged me.

About McKay I thought that too. The guy's been through a lot, though, capture by the Genii, torture, friend commiting suicide in front of him, near death by terrifying hallucinogenic virus, colleagues dying from the same thing around him so soon after Gaul and Abhams, so I guess he has an excuse to be cranky.

Hi Joanne...
You are definitely not the only one who disliked this episode... if you refer back to some of the earlier posts... you'll see that quite a number of us found this episode a little hard to swallow. Moreover someone started a thread on "The Worst Episode of Season One..." and Sanctuary does feature quite prominently there as well. ;)

Crazedwraith
January 18th, 2005, 01:57 PM
Very very cie episode. Although I think McKay's and Sheppards action were vboth a little too much too fast. The price you pay for a story in 44 mins I suppose. Very Good i especially liked the sweet Teyla/Shep moment beofre the picnic.

Ancients Rising
January 18th, 2005, 03:34 PM
This was an odd episode. Some bits good, some bits not so good.

Chaya as an Ancient was great, had a sprinkling of mystique about her. The scene in the conference room was excellent and her disapproval of our “backward” ways on Earth was fitting. McKay was fantastic.

We saw Wraith Hives, OK for all of 3 seconds, but we saw them! :)

The not so good….

The effects, were in some instances let down by two really quite appalling instances. The energy beam was low grade ball lightening that anyone could do even using Adobe Premiere! The lighting and blue screen for the Picnic scene was atrocious. The background looked like wallpaper! :eek:

As for the story it was rushed, so quick, but not that bad.

On the whole an enjoyable episode, in many ways different from the usual. We got to meet a real life Ancient, albeit an ascended one.

Well I’m already looking forward to meeting purely corporeal Ancients next week :D

Matt G
January 18th, 2005, 03:35 PM
OK...

Here we have:

1 fit female*who Matt promptly grabs off Anubis after doing some scanning with a TER*;) :)

Teyla reminding me of B5's Delenn in the pre-picnic scene.

Some fairly funny moments.

A pretty light ep overall

JackDaniels
January 18th, 2005, 04:28 PM
Clearly some very mixed reactions to this episode. At the end, with the revealtion that Koyla was an Ancient, it seemed too much like 'Ascension' to me.
I thought that it was interesting that she wanted to know about earth religions and about what had happened to the Anceints they knew about. I also liked that she clearly wanted to be human becuase of her feelings for John.

I liked McKay and Beckett esp in this episode. Both were cautious, funny and yet remained wholly protective over their new home. It was also nice to see the english tech guy again. Obviously working his ass off trying to understand the ancient technology and McKay happy that he can talk to someone on his own level!

I think the end of the episode was rather rushed, and ending on Shepherd saying 'That is so cool' was just a bit lame. You also have to wonder why the wraith don't look for other ways to go to this planet or why they sent so many ships when they know not one has ever returned.

I'm not sure I liked her as an ancient, though i think there was a good chemistry between the two characters. It was also nice to see Teyla touch upon John's need to maintain a front as the ranking militiary officer (as we know this won't be the case next season, maybe this hints at a change in how he will act and also that we may see her again?)

Overall not bad, a nice change of pace, and again allowing us to realise that the ancients are really selfish b******s!

aAnubiSs
January 18th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Koyla's an Ancient? Didn't know our Genii friends were Ancients :) you must mean Athar :)

Anubis
January 19th, 2005, 12:08 AM
I really enjoyed Sanctury. :)

I though the aciting of them 'digusing' themselves at the start was a bit plain obvious to myself, and as soon as Carson said about all that health-related materail -- just plain obvious they're Ancients. ;)

I liked how Sheppard arrived and took care of the Wraith darts -- didn't the scenary on the planet look like the set of It's Good to be King to others aswell? Well, it may just be me. ;)

GateGipsy
January 19th, 2005, 04:04 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed Sanctuary. It was an excellent episode for both McKay and Shepherd. Loved McKay's hissy fit through out. Those two balance each other beautifully (and yes, I do think they are so doing it!).

TheWarrior
January 19th, 2005, 05:06 AM
I liked this episode - it did seemed rushed but it had some good and bad points.

Good
Was it me or did Tayla seem slightly jealous of Sheppard and the Ancient woman.

McKay and Sheppard's interaction again - "I always behave myself!" lol
and "My God - he is Kirk!"

I liked the bit when Grodin said Sheppard is watching over her and McKay goes oh off course he is - slightly jealous he isn't hanging out with the hot Ancient chick.

Overall some good comedy moments and again we meet another Ancient who has been kicked out. Also the Sheppard and Ancient bit when on a picnic reminded me of O'Neill and Anise when O'Neill felt uncomfortable.

Bad
Where the hell did Ford go! The Writers have lost interest in this guy I swear!

NotANumber
January 19th, 2005, 08:54 AM
I'm not sure that McKay was jealous, I just think he was suspicious (perhaps to the point of paranoia) of Chaya and how she had Sheppard "wrapped around her little finger".

His line "My God - he is Kirk!" was a cracker.

astronomicalchick
January 24th, 2005, 08:18 AM
I watched this for the first time last night. Thinking I was switching on for the re-run of Citizen Joe that I missed earlier on in the week I was faced with Sanctuary. Poor me...

I think it must have been Atlantis' homage to Star Trek, the original series that is. I found the attraction between the Alien Priestess and the leading man far too fast and unconvincing. She did fall for him in a Captain Kirk way, and he just looked like he was going to get some and was pleased about it.

My being-kind-to-Sheppard theory is that when she touched him on the chest she had him under mind control... that was the only way I could explain why he took her round Atlantis showing her sensitive systems and hardly caring.

She was also wearing a dress with a slit up the leg, if that isn't orignal trek I don't know what is. The top was a bit unrevealing but it did have an interesting cut.

Plus McKay's references to Star Trek that were really funny. He had some good scenes with Weir. But HE IS SO GOOD ANYWAY. I don't see McWeir ship, I just think he's too good to waste on a single relationship, to be honest. I'd hate to see him tied down and not relating to the rest of the characters. You could have read a slashy subtext in there with Sheppard.

The rest of the episode was marked in the fact that outside the Shep-Priestess thing, everyone else gave great performances.

Beckett's accent much more improved in this ep. Less helium, more gravitas.

In summary: terrible story, unless it's a homage to Captain Kirk in which case it still wasn't good, but excellent interaction between the supporting cast.

Cronus
February 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM
If Chaya has to protect her people then why don't Shep lure the wraith to outside her planet. That way she can destroy the wraith, Atlantis can survive and everyone can go home happy. It may be morally wrong, but tactically it would be genius.

WormholeAlien
February 11th, 2005, 01:07 PM
There are 10 Pages in this thread and I'm sure it has been said a number of times in these 10 pages, but.....

The ancient in this episode was Super hot, as in beyond gorgeous.

Cronus
February 11th, 2005, 01:09 PM
There are 10 Pages in this thread and I'm sure it has been said a number of times in these 10 pages, but.....

The ancient in this episode was Super hot, as in beyond gorgeous.

I agree, she was the reason that made me watch this episode over and over and over again.

Major Tyler
February 11th, 2005, 02:19 PM
If Chaya has to protect her people then why don't Shep lure the wraith to outside her planet. That way she can destroy the wraith, Atlantis can survive and everyone can go home happy. It may be morally wrong, but tactically it would be genius.How, exactly, would he "lure" the Wraith halfway across the galaxy?

Cronus
February 11th, 2005, 02:23 PM
How, exactly, would he "lure" the Wraith halfway across the galaxy?

No idea. That's one for Mckay to come up with.

...

Maybe one of those wraith distress signals, or something like that necklace Teyla used to wear.

American3.141592654
February 11th, 2005, 06:45 PM
I can only review, I don't have time for a summary.
There is a LOAD of spoilers in it too, so watch out.

I believe that Major Sheppard is, without any doubt, becoming a mirror image of Captain Kirk, as Rodney so aptly describes as "So 1967".

Here's my review.

I found the episode quite relieving from the tense episodes we've seen of late (what, FOUR episodes with impending doom in them? I was getting tired of it). The relationship between the High Priestess and Sheppard was surprisingly familiar (the Kirk bit) and we get to see Sheppard's first on-screen kiss, with an ANCIENT, no less. The whole romance thing became a key factor in the episode too quickly in my view, with Sheppard jumping the gun and Weir LETTING him go out alone on a PJ to fight a fleet of Wraith Darts.
But still, the episode was extremely interesting and calm (aside from McKay's apparent blunders here).

Here's a major spoiler: We can now see an Ascended Ancient's power. Let's just say it's not a pretty sight when it's unleashed.


Well about him being a "captain kirk" he's a man so when he sees a beutiful woman he loses his capability to use reason, Trust me I know first hand what that's like.. Secondly he's a better character and a much better soldier. Lets face it, kirk never single handedly killed off 65 enemy military troops. :) hehe... Also he's a much better character and far more cerebral than kirk ever was...

Bobthespirit
February 11th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Pretty strong episode, except that....we've all done the 'found potential help from outside forces but they can't/won't help us for some reason' thing before. It seems like a variation of the Tollan.

Loved the Kirk comments though.

Icemancmd
February 11th, 2005, 07:04 PM
ANother great Atlantis ep. Much better then the SG1 ep before it. Next week eps looks great again..unlike SG1s.

BruceDickinson
February 11th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Hey all, first post, been around awhile, great site - thanks for that!

This was a decent episode, but had some problems.

First, the Atlantis staff should show a little more wisdom in the writing of their characters. I mean, here they are trying to force themselves onto a planet like they have the right. Did they forget that they are the reason the Wraith are around again in the first place? Please cut down on the holier than thou art attitude...

This episode should have been called, "McKay's Manifest Destiny". I was honestly a little disgusted with the attitude several of these hand picked "best of the best" displayed. I would hope in the future the writers present this cast with a little more respect for other people's cultures. The whole flying in and telling everyone, "Hey! We just flew in from another galaxy!" thing is a bit stupid.

The shows been great this season and has become my favorite show on TV, Rachel is smokin, and hopefully the Ancient hottie make occasional appearances too ;) , but I hope all the disrespecting of unknown alien cultures thing comes to a quick end.

McKay acting like their god was a joke was pretty disturbing, and if the writers think that makes his character endearing, I think they are a bit foolish. I'm not a very religious person myself, but I would hope that initial contacts with alien peoples would be done in a more sophisticated manner. It is possible to show concern without being abbrasive or neurotic as McKay's character seems to relish so much. Were it not for those ridiculous antics, I would give this episode 4 stars, but as it stands with all the banal behavior from McKay, I have to say 2, maybe 2 1/2 stars.

Thanks for reading, and again, great site! Hope to discuss this awesome show with you all in the future!

NightGloom
February 11th, 2005, 08:11 PM
I think McKay said it best that during this episode Sheppard was Captain Kirk. I'm not saying that he's becoming an exact replica, but during this episode he sure as heck acted like him. Frankly, I didn't like the episode too much, solely because it takes a lot for me to go for the whole romance thing. It was also kinda a little bit too much like Ascension I think. We really didn't learn that much in this episode either. There wasn't much towards character development, besides turning McKay into a complete jerk, not a funny sarcastic guy like he usually is, he was a complete jerk in this episode. And Ford had, what? One? Maybe two lines during the ENTIRE EPISODE!

Ace
February 11th, 2005, 10:26 PM
Hey all, first post, been around awhile, great site - thanks for that!

This was a decent episode, but had some problems.

First, the Atlantis staff should show a little more wisdom in the writing of their characters. I mean, here they are trying to force themselves onto a planet like they have the right. Did they forget that they are the reason the Wraith are around again in the first place? Please cut down on the holier than thou art attitude...

This episode should have been called, "McKay's Manifest Destiny". I was honestly a little disgusted with the attitude several of these hand picked "best of the best" displayed. I would hope in the future the writers present this cast with a little more respect for other people's cultures. The whole flying in and telling everyone, "Hey! We just flew in from another galaxy!" thing is a bit stupid.

The shows been great this season and has become my favorite show on TV, Rachel is smokin, and hopefully the Ancient hottie make occasional appearances too ;) , but I hope all the disrespecting of unknown alien cultures thing comes to a quick end.

McKay acting like their god was a joke was pretty disturbing, and if the writers think that makes his character endearing, I think they are a bit foolish. I'm not a very religious person myself, but I would hope that initial contacts with alien peoples would be done in a more sophisticated manner. It is possible to show concern without being abbrasive or neurotic as McKay's character seems to relish so much. Were it not for those ridiculous antics, I would give this episode 4 stars, but as it stands with all the banal behavior from McKay, I have to say 2, maybe 2 1/2 stars.

Thanks for reading, and again, great site! Hope to discuss this awesome show with you all in the future!

I wonder if I should watch the episode a 5th time, as I didn't see anything even similar to what you are talking about.

Force themselves on a planet? They weren't forcing anybody, they were discussing a treaty...

Holier than thou attitude? Once again haven't a clue as to what you are referring to...any examples?

McKay's Manifest Destiny? - Yet again I am perplexed as to what you mean by this...at no time did McKay suggest that we simply go ahead and send people there for sanctuary. Want to give an example of how you see Manifest Destiny in any part of this episode, especially in McKay.

McKay acting like their god? - What?!? Now I know you have to be watching a different episode. There was no part or dialog at all in the episode that made McKay act like he was a god to the people on the planet. He did express his dislike for their religion...but then again he's a scientist and he's McKay ;)

Initial contacts - I myself am not religious but once again I am unsure of your complaint about inital contacts. Sheppard, Teyla and Ford I thought were doing an outstanding job of trying to be understanding to their culture. Even setting aside logic to make it easier to communicate. McKay, well he spoke his mind. Which is something I have come to expect and like about McKay.

Maybe this is what you meant by all of those other comments, McKay spoke his mind throughout this entire episode. About their religion, the notion of a weapon on the planet, and finally about Chaya! IS this what you meant?

Ace

DJFavorite
February 11th, 2005, 10:29 PM
I'm not to sure I liked this episode. Rodney's pessimistic additude is starting to get a little old. I'd like to see him think a little more positively.

The story was ok, nothing spectacular in my opinion.

On a side note, I chuckled at how similar Chaya residence looked an awful lot like Mayborne's current residence. ;)

SmartFox
February 11th, 2005, 10:30 PM
The ancient in this episode was Super hot, as in beyond gorgeous.

I have to agree.


And Ford had, what? One? Maybe two lines during the ENTIRE EPISODE!

That is becoming a trend unfortunatly.

I think this was a pretty good ep. Though i could tell she was an Ancient from early on. Especially since Mckay is never wrong.

Jolinarsam
February 11th, 2005, 10:35 PM
I thought that was weird too that they just go and show this woman everything in Atlantis without knowing really anything about her. I was having deja vu of certain SG-1 episodes. How many times do they have to make this mistake before it sticks in their heads? They got lucky this time. Plus it seemed like McKay was the only one wanting to take precautions which should be standard procedure.

When they zoomed in on her with a big slit up her dress I was just kind of stunned. Not that it's that important, but it just took me out of the story for a second trying to figure out why someone would kneel down like that with no one else around when it was obvious her dress had been strategically placed that way. :rolleyes:

Jeril
February 11th, 2005, 11:19 PM
Er, okay... I'm confused about one thing about Chaya and her being Ancient and Ascended 'n all that nifty stuff.
Soooo, she was Ascended she said but she comes and visits her people every once and a while. So, she's going back and forth from corporeal to Ascended, corporeal to Ascended, which kinda contradicts what I remember Orlin in S5 of SG-1 saying about Ascension. He said that once the Ascended take human form, they can't become Ascended again without the help of the Others. (Which, by the way, always makes me think of that Nicole Kidman movie. :p)
This means that the Ascended Ancients were hanging around the whole time in SGA because they had to have been there at Atlantis to allow Chaya to re-Ascend. This doesn't kinda make sense to me though because Chaya said her punishment was to protect her people. But then why would the Others let her leave? She couldn't do the protecting if she was gone so she'd be kinda escaping her punishment, yes?

Oh, side note!
I loved the comments about Kirk! :D Completely rocked my socks!! :p Sheppard was getting all Kirk-y there for a bit and I loved it when Rodney made the comment that they weren't in 1967 or something like that. :D That made my night.

Er, but one last thing... what was with the Ascension soul-sex? :eek: I'm sorry, but that just creeps me out. It made me cringe when Carter and Orlin did it on SG-1 and I cringed just as much when Sheppard and Chaya did it here.
Is it just me or is the whole thing kinda creepy? They just meet these people and they're like, "Sure, I'll share my very essence of soul with you! Like that's not important!" Shouldn't they want to get to know these Ascended a bit more before doing this? Maybe I'm just being uber-conservative but it kinda strikes me as the Ascended version of sexual promiscuity...

So, yeah... my thoughts, whether you want 'em or not. :D

slipstream
February 11th, 2005, 11:32 PM
After reading thru this thread it seems the majority of the episode haters are women (who perhaps feel some catty hate/envy for the leading lady?) and generally good reviews from the guys. I'm seeing a trend here..... :rolleyes:

Overall excellent episode ......and the poll seems to agree to date at least. Excellent storyline, excellent guest characters, outstanding cgi. Very well done episode all around. :) :cool:

SmartFox
February 11th, 2005, 11:34 PM
She wasnt really going back and forth. When she went to Alantis it was the first time in thousands of years that she had left that planet. As for the ascended part idk.

LoneStar1836
February 12th, 2005, 12:33 AM
I’ve yet to read this thread beyond the comments on this page, so excuse any repetitiveness or stupid rhetorical questions. :P

Okay hopefully tptb got that homage to Kirk having a woman on every planet out of their system. I admit this episode is my least favorite of the season so far, but it was not quite as bad as I expected from some of what I gathered around the board. Though, what was the point? We already know that it is not beyond the Ancients to break rules and be banished from the honorary Ancient club, which to me is not all that it’s cracked up to be. Was it just to introduce a character that may possibly reappear in a later episode? Or just so they can say they finally met an Ancient still wandering the Pegasus galaxy?

Shep and McKay were a little out of character in this one. Shep going all gaga over what’s her name, and McKay overreacting just a tad too much. Even when facing death, he’s not that snide or pessimistic, and Shep may be a guy, but he’s more respectable than to fall for the first beautiful alien chick he sees and put aside his ability for rational thought and suffer from tunnel vision over a woman he has just met. Not that I think he and Chaya did anything, but Shep does have a little more self-control than that (or I hope) otherwise he’ll end up with every STD of the Pegasus galaxy. :rolleyes: (Had to laugh though at the face McKay made when Beckett mentioned she didn’t have any STDs.) This and the so-so story are why this drags up the rear of the season so far for me. Oh, and poor Ford. :( I think he was just there for a little bit of eye candy this week and not much more. They even had to demote Weir’s character development when they let her make the stupid decision to let Shep run after her in the PJ when they knew the Wraith were waiting on the other side of the gate, but then we don’t get our umm….glowy ending. :rolleyes:

It had some good parts, but was just kind of boring and sloppy with the non character development, imo. It wasn’t awful, but not their best work either. And why were the Wraith so interested in this planet? You would think by now they would know that an Ancient protects it and just leave it alone since it really didn’t have that many people to snack on anyway.

Erik Bloodaxe
February 12th, 2005, 12:50 AM
Er, okay... I'm confused about one thing about Chaya and her being Ancient and Ascended 'n all that nifty stuff.
Soooo, she was Ascended she said but she comes and visits her people every once and a while. So, she's going back and forth from corporeal to Ascended, corporeal to Ascended, which kinda contradicts what I remember Orlin in S5 of SG-1 saying about Ascension. He said that once the Ascended take human form, they can't become Ascended again without the help of the Others. (Which, by the way, always makes me think of that Nicole Kidman movie. :p)


Actually, no, she was in far too perfect health to have ever been truly corporeal during any part of that episode; excellent imitation though. :)


Er, but one last thing... what was with the Ascension soul-sex? :eek: I'm sorry, but that just creeps me out. It made me cringe when Carter and Orlin did it on SG-1 and I cringed just as much when Sheppard and Chaya did it here.
Is it just me or is the whole thing kinda creepy? They just meet these people and they're like, "Sure, I'll share my very essence of soul with you! Like that's not important!" Shouldn't they want to get to know these Ascended a bit more before doing this? Maybe I'm just being uber-conservative but it kinda strikes me as the Ascended version of sexual promiscuity...


Rewatch "Ascension"; if you notice, the whole "soul-sharing" thing is a method of getting to know each other, albeit instantly; and the Ancients all strike me as being a quite-forward culture anyway. :-p

-Bloodaxe

Merlin7
February 12th, 2005, 05:41 AM
Female here who LOVED the ep.

Love the beginning. John with his "McKAY!" And Rodney's "It's not like I'm holding back" It's so not that for Shep. It's that he's Rodney. He's supposed to be able to fix everything! LOL

But I still don't get WHY Shep is all bundled up through the whole ep. Everyone else is so NOT. LOL

Smitten Shep. And it wasn't about lust. Loved that. He wasn't all MACHO he was flustered but eager to have her help them.
Loved it and how Joe played it.
I really don't get why Rodney was so angry with her though. They all want Athar to help, but why was he so touchy right from the beginning? He's not really like that usually.

Love how patient John was with him, considering.

<Shallow moment>Loved him LYING DOWN! GUH! God he looked so beautiful. I want his jacket off though. LOL

I like Chaya. I do. And I see her interest in John. I really do. She was flirting back. It was sweet.

And I like how John understood how religious people are about their beliefs. So far I love this muchly. So much SHEP!

GUH! He was so cute when he held out his arm . And when Rodney wanted to tag along and he clapped him on the shoulder. Loved it.

I liked Chaya touching his arm and leading him off at one point.
This ep really does read like ROdney and Chaya vying for Sheppard's affection. Love that! LOL

Okay..I freaking adore her. SEriously. I saw oodles of chemistry. I thought she was totally in to him and flirting back. And actually MORE in control of it than Shep was. Almost like she was orchestrating it. I like her. Yup. I like them together.
The kiss? GUH! God to be her. Lucky woman! LOL
He was too adorably cute when he jumped up and was all flustered about liking her. So JOE. So...GUH!

This ep is great.
DH is still playing Rodney as so damn jealous. <Naughty boy> LOL

I wonder about the console. What if Shep had touched it? Would it have lighted just cause of the gene? Hmmm


Shep was smitten. And..I really like the way the actress played Chaya. THis ep, to me, and I'm probably reading it wrong, but hope I'm not, given that the Show tends to put in clues then follow through. Chaya was attracted to John and came to Atlantis for him. Because of him. *I* want to believe, and I could see it being played out on the ep, it's because, as she tells him in the end, they're not so different. She could have connected to the HUMANS on her planet to NOT be so lonely. Someone other than the priests. But she connected to JOHN! Why? Cause of his Gene? Cause of WHO he is really?

I hope so.

I loved him throughout. Loved every mintute of him and really...I like Chaya. For me she conveyed what she was supposed too. Loved Weir and her thought proccess. Beckett was so cute. Rodney was..just off. Seriously. WHY was he so sure she was evil? Bad? Right from the get go? Makes no sense. Especially since Rodney is all about facts and he had NO FACTS she was bad/evil. Even at the end> Sure Chaya didn't tell them who she was. Her choice really. But she was NEVER a threat. No one felt she was and Rodney had no proof. Hmmmmm

I'm probably reading WAY more into this...but so what. What I got from this ep was...they made it a point to bring up John woke the Wraith. I think that meant something. Also, Weir tells him to GO, then when he says he thinks the Wraith are attacking Athar's planet...Weir is upset. Understood. But I love John knowing he won't be taking on the Wraith with just one ship. When Chaya shows up on the PJ...she seemed stunned that he came to HELP HER SAVE HER PEOPLE! I think that meant something to her and it showed her WHO John is. She already guessed he was a warrior who would fight to save his people. NOw he was figthing to help save hers, even knowing WHO she was and what she could do. I think THAT meant something.

Then at the end, when he's a bit upset...that she had lied to him..was untruthful.. I loved how he admitted how he felt about her was part of why he was there. But not all. He really wanted her to help them. To learn from her even if she couldn't offer Sanctuary.

I like that she said she had no regrets and didn't get connected to anyone in the villages and that it was only NOW, with HIM, that her exile was punishment.
And his offer to visit. Then his.."Man..I'm flirting with someone of a different species" She pointed out "Not so different and SHOWED HIM" I think that means something and I LOVE IT!

I know some shippers got caught up in the Kirk/Romance thing. I don't think that's what this ep was supposed to be about. I think it was supposed to Show that Shep isn't so different from an Ancient. That it's MORE than just the gene. She shared with him so SHOW him they weren't so different. I was like YES!

I'm thrilled about this.
And I'm thrilled that I loved Chaya. This is my fave ep so far of the new ones. Because I think it DID tell us alot about John. Which is what I have been waiting for.

ShadowMaat
February 12th, 2005, 06:40 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: whoever wrote this ep has absolutely NO CONCEPT of what the characters are really like. McKay was wildly out of character, basically a parody of himself, and Shep was almost as bad.

And screaming "Trek" every five minutes doesn't change the fact that this ep was a very poor (VERY poor) knock-off of classic Trek plotlines.

There was some interesting stuff in this ep, but it was buried under smarm, cheesiness and melodrama to the point where it's barely worth the trouble to try and find the "good bits". IMO, this was one of the worst eps of the season and I hope they don't let this writer out of the closet very often. He does awful things to the characters.

JustRun
February 12th, 2005, 07:01 AM
Hi! This is my very first post!.... okay, glad I got that out of the way.

I absolutely loved the "Sanctuary" episode. I would watch it again and again just for Chaya.... incredibly beautiful. I tip my hat to Major Sheppard, Tim Meadows would surely give him the "Ladies Man" crown after this episode.

By the way, isn't anyone concerned with Atlantis' diminishing stock of Ancient Drone weapons on the PJ's? They have used quite a few already this season and I dont think there are any just lying around to reload the Jumpers.

jckfan55
February 12th, 2005, 09:15 AM
McKay was a *total* jerk on the planet, but he did raise good security concerns later in the episode.
Before we knew she was an ancient & we found out that she was in perfect health, did anyone else wonder if the Atlantis crew was going to be responsible for her death by infecting her with all kinds of earth diseases? I at first thought this was going to be a case of her not having any antibodies to earth disease & we blunder in and kill off a planet or something.

keshou
February 12th, 2005, 09:48 AM
I wasn't spoiled that much but had heard this was the worst episode of the last half of the season. I didn't think it was dire but not one I'm going to jump to rewatch again.

One problem is that it just felt like I was watching a Star Trek episode. And I mean an episode from the original series. ;) At least they recognized it and kind of threw in a few "Kirk" references to acknowledge it. :)

After great strides in fleshing out and maturing McKay's character in recent episodes he seemed very pissy in this one. He was being a real jerk on the planet and not much better back at Atlantis. He was right about his concerns but the character has grown enough recently that his behaviour in this episode now seems out of character.

And Shep. I mean all the Kirk references were right on. He seemed like a teenager with a crush in this one rather than the military leader of the Atlantis group. His boyish playfulness is fun but in this episode it was too much. The end - with the "oh cool" from Shep was kind of a perfect silly line to punctuate his whole behavior.

I did enjoy Chaya being an Ancient. The actress was very pretty, but not much of an actress. They kind of telegraphed the storyline with the "previously on Atlantis" clips but I still enjoyed her story and the opportunity to find out more about the Ancients in the Pegasus galaxy. Still big on the "no interference" thing of course.

One nice thing was that Weir or Teyla didn't seem too concerned about Shep getting romantic. I was afraid with the kind of writing I was seeing that their jealousy claws were going to come out. Guess they left that to McKay. :p

So.........nice to peel back the layers on the Ancients a little more. And I still love seeing all the sets and the visual aspects of Atlantis itself. But all in all it just seemed like a throwback to early Star Trek. :)

kris
February 12th, 2005, 11:01 AM
I’ve yet to read this thread beyond the comments on this page, so excuse any repetitiveness or stupid rhetorical questions. :P

Okay hopefully tptb got that homage to Kirk having a woman on every planet out of their system. I admit this episode is my least favorite of the season so far, but it was not quite as bad as I expected from some of what I gathered around the board. Though, what was the point? We already know that it is not beyond the Ancients to break rules and be banished from the honorary Ancient club, which to me is not all that it’s cracked up to be. Was it just to introduce a character that may possibly reappear in a later episode? Or just so they can say they finally met an Ancient still wandering the Pegasus galaxy?

Shep and McKay were a little out of character in this one. Shep going all gaga over what’s her name, and McKay overreacting just a tad too much. Even when facing death, he’s not that snide or pessimistic, and Shep may be a guy, but he’s more respectable than to fall for the first beautiful alien chick he sees and put aside his ability for rational thought and suffer from tunnel vision over a woman he has just met. Not that I think he and Chaya did anything, but Shep does have a little more self-control than that (or I hope) otherwise he’ll end up with every STD of the Pegasus galaxy. :rolleyes: (Had to laugh though at the face McKay made when Beckett mentioned she didn’t have any STDs.) This and the so-so story are why this drags up the rear of the season so far for me. Oh, and poor Ford. :( I think he was just there for a little bit of eye candy this week and not much more. They even had to demote Weir’s character development when they let her make the stupid decision to let Shep run after her in the PJ when they knew the Wraith were waiting on the other side of the gate, but then we don’t get our umm….glowy ending. :rolleyes:

It had some good parts, but was just kind of boring and sloppy with the non character development, imo. It wasn’t awful, but not their best work either. And why were the Wraith so interested in this planet? You would think by now they would know that an Ancient protects it and just leave it alone since it really didn’t have that many people to snack on anyway.

Ditto, ditto. You said almost everything I wanted to say. This was my take on the episode, too. I will add I liked Ford in this one, especially when he was encouraging a tired McKay along on their hike. I was hoping there was a subplot for him but there wasn't. This was the simplest episode yet and although amusing, not a unique variation. I loved Chaya's dresses. Very pretty.

Weir: yes go, no maybe you shouldn't. Make up your mind, please.
McKay: If it wasn't for him, I would've watched it later in the week. I think he'd be a little more respectful of other religions, too. I also wish he would've been vindicated in a more dramatic way than in a conversation at a conference table.

And I would think that Chaya could take care of the bad guys before John could get there.

Mil
February 12th, 2005, 11:55 AM
I liked the episode quite a bit.

This is not out of character for Sheppard he did the same with Talya fist episode. (And she gave back as good as he did)
Of course Sheppard was highly attracted after all this was an ideal woman seriously and she was chasing him as much or more. Why an ideal woman, she was not only beautiful, she was the leader of her people and clearly very intelligent. She was not a Kirk babe she was superior to Sheppard in every way.

The ancient was also ethical in that she avoided relationships to the people she protected and controlled. She chased someone who she would not be using her power to control or take advantage of. Not ideal but she was forbidden her own kind.

I wrote a long theory on why flirtation is historically a common thing for what SG is doing and flirtation is an effective tool that SG should commonly use.

I like that Talya this episode (and before) seamed to approve of this and that she seams to consider flirtation part of her bargaining/negotiation tactics and that just because the flirtation is somewhat tactical it’s not exploitation if an equal exchange is the goal and a real romance is a possibility.

I thought the worry about the romance also good because romancing is a two edged sword in that it can backfire. But just like other tactics I think it’s a risk benefit decision to be taken on a case by case basis and ruling out flirtation could be a negative to SG mission success.

I also like romance storylines and sense romance is a realistic common part of exploration I see no reason not to have it occur fairly frequently.

ShadowMaat
February 12th, 2005, 11:59 AM
I think flirting/romance as a "tool" is appallingly stupid and if it happens much more often on Atlantis, I'll stop watching. Sex may sell to other people, but it does not work for me and I don't want to see it.

As far as I'm concerned, Shep and the others should learn to keep it in their pants.

Merlin7
February 12th, 2005, 12:09 PM
I think flirting/romance as a "tool" is appallingly stupid and if it happens much more often on Atlantis, I'll stop watching. Sex may sell to other people, but it does not work for me and I don't want to see it.

As far as I'm concerned, Shep and the others should learn to keep it in their pants.


Flirting/romance as a TOOL in general doesn't work for me either. But I didn't see Shep doing that with Chaya. He was GENUINELY attracted to her. Yet still focused on trying to convince her to convince Athar that they deserved Sanctuary for their people as well.

And I still believe the CONNECTION with Chaya/Athar was all about the GENE/Ancient thing, baby! :D

GatetheWay
February 12th, 2005, 12:16 PM
I think that like Hot Zone was suppose to show the weaknesses in Sheppard's character, Sanctuary was suppose to show the weaknesses in McKay's. But Hot Zone, IMO, did a much better job justifying Sheppard's behavour then Sanctuary was in justifying McKay's.

Sure maybe you can say he did not like the planets selfishness for only using the 'weapon' to deffend themselves and no one else but I really thing they made him overly angry. TPTB should of just made him more suspicious of Chaya (sp?) then being full out hostile.

But security wise I think McKay had better idea about caution then anyone else. It makes you wonder where the heck Bates was to back him up.

P.S. I thought it was great that we finally saw Teyla has a sense of humor. :)

animoid
February 12th, 2005, 12:54 PM
P.S. I thought it was great that we finally saw Teyla has a sense of humor. :)

Yes, and to me it felt somehow out of character. :S Her chat with Sheppard was clearly written in for comic relief purposes.

Thek
February 12th, 2005, 01:13 PM
This episode was serously...wrong. The entire time I was waiting for either Sheppard to finally smack McKay back to earth....eeer...Atlantis, anyway, or McKay to have his "I told you so" moment when Chaya ended up being evil or something.

Or both.

The characters were totally not themselves and it blew the episode.

It was painful.

SmartFox
February 12th, 2005, 09:21 PM
I think Mckay was a big jerk but what bothered me is he was only one thinking security wise. If there is anything i've learned from Stargate is that you never let a strange alien back to home base.

GatetheWay
February 12th, 2005, 09:30 PM
This episode was serously...wrong. The entire time I was waiting for either Sheppard to finally smack McKay back to earth....eeer...Atlantis, anyway, or McKay to have his "I told you so" moment when Chaya ended up being evil or something.

Or both.

The characters were totally not themselves and it blew the episode.

It was painful.

I think the episode would of been more interesting if Chaya had turned out to be evil. Then they could of had an evil-Ancient story arc to work with in the future. :) But I don't see that happening.

The McKay in 'Sanctuary' was not the the same McKay that has been in the rest of Atlantis (this goes for Sheppard as well) so I think I will just ignore this ep.

Angelique
February 12th, 2005, 09:44 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: whoever wrote this ep has absolutely NO CONCEPT of what the characters are really like. McKay was wildly out of character, basically a parody of himself, and Shep was almost as bad.

And screaming "Trek" every five minutes doesn't change the fact that this ep was a very poor (VERY poor) knock-off of classic Trek plotlines.

There was some interesting stuff in this ep, but it was buried under smarm, cheesiness and melodrama to the point where it's barely worth the trouble to try and find the "good bits". IMO, this was one of the worst eps of the season and I hope they don't let this writer out of the closet very often. He does awful things to the characters.
I couldn't agree more! This has probably been said before, but if Chya can destroy a Wraith fleet with her mind why was it so hard for the ancients to wipe out the wraith?!? Now the whole "The wraith where impassable to defeat" plot doesn't make sense. :confused:

Jolinarsam
February 12th, 2005, 10:02 PM
The McKay in 'Sanctuary' was not the the same McKay that has been in the rest of Atlantis (this goes for Sheppard as well) so I think I will just ignore this ep.

It seemed like he was reverting back to the way he was on 'SG-1'. Which is why I hated him then. Hopefully he will go back to his more likable self again soon. :o

kashi
February 12th, 2005, 10:45 PM
I watched this episode a couple of months ago thanks to the wonders of the internet, and I have to say that it is one of my favourites in season 1. I would like to see more of humans interracting with ancients.

chanvw
February 13th, 2005, 12:33 AM
I couldn't agree more! This has probably been said before, but if Chya can destroy a Wraith fleet with her mind why was it so hard for the ancients to wipe out the wraith?!? Now the whole "The wraith where impassable to defeat" plot doesn't make sense. :confused:

I think the only reason Chaya could destroy the Wraith ships with her mind is because she has ascended. The Ancients who were being attacked by the Wraith didn't have that advantage.

On a side note however - did anybody see in Threads on Daniel's first newspaper the Ascended's article on how the Wraith are coming? I thought it tied in the shows quite nicely.

SciFiGeek
February 13th, 2005, 12:34 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: whoever wrote this ep has absolutely NO CONCEPT of what the characters are really like. McKay was wildly out of character, basically a parody of himself, and Shep was almost as bad.



Thank you ShadowMaat. You've put your finger on exactly why I was so disappointed with this episode, which I had a hard time determining after my first viewing. I only watched it a second time because my sister hadn't seen it yet and she's a big Sheppard fan so she liked it a bit better than I did.

Unfortunately, I hated it even more on the second viewing then the first. I mean, ignoring all the cheesy, cliche romance scenes between Sheppard and Chaya (during which I pretty much zoned out), I was literally cringing during some of the Sheppard-McKay stuff on the planet. And I practically shrank down into my seat during the confrontation between them in the hall when McKay kept accusing him of being Kirk. The whole situation was so ridiculous, topped by the fact that the two of the were acting so out of character.

Number one thing: McKay annoyed me. And I hate having McKay annoy me because he's my favorite character. He's the reason I started watching the show and the primary reason I keep watching. And while I laughed at some of his lines, and felt the episode's only near saving grace was the fact that McKay was calling Sheppard on his Kirk-like attitude, his overall attitude was just too much. I mean, his behavior is normally of that which is sometimes hard to watch just because he starts rambling and doesn't know when to stop talking, but that's part of why I love the character. In this episode he was just...pretty annoying.

And Sheppard...who I do like and really want to like; I hate how easily he falls for the beautiful alien, giving up all semblance of logic, and becoming so moony-eyed over her in scenes that, IMO, weren't all that intriguing. Like McKay, it wasn't even really character development; at this point, I don't know what it was. The confrontation in the hall so annoyed me because, as idiotic McKay kinda was in this episode, he was right, and Sheppard was only defending her on the basis of the fact that he thought she was beautiful and had managed to fall completely in love with her over the course of a day.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I'll be doing my best to suppress this episode down to the darkest depths of my mind. Maybe rewatching The Defiant One and Hot Zone will help...

kris
February 13th, 2005, 01:09 AM
Maybe rewatching The Defiant One and Hot Zone will help...


oooh, excellent idea. I'll add Hide and Seek to the mix for a wonderful trilogy.

Angelique
February 13th, 2005, 01:13 AM
I think the only reason Chaya could destroy the Wraith ships with her mind is because she has ascended. The Ancients who were being attacked by the Wraith didn't have that advantage.

On a side note however - did anybody see in Threads on Daniel's first newspaper the Ascended's article on how the Wraith are coming? I thought it tied in the shows quite nicely.
Well after they ascended they could have wiped them out and saved the pegusus galaxy, but that would have been braking the rules...never mind.
here's the link to what the paper said:
The Ascended Times (http://www.scifigate.net/theascendedtimes.php)

SciFiGeek
February 13th, 2005, 10:42 AM
oooh, excellent idea. I'll add Hide and Seek to the mix for a wonderful trilogy.

Even better. :D

Mil
February 13th, 2005, 02:15 PM
I think flirting/romance as a "tool" is appallingly stupid and if it happens much more often on Atlantis, I'll stop watching. Sex may sell to other people, but it does not work for me and I don't want to see it.

As far as I'm concerned, Shep and the others should learn to keep it in their pants.

Why is it appallingly stupid? Historicly flirting/romance has worked very well sometimes in diplomacy and negotations. (this question is curiosity not a critical one)

In my observation flirting/romance is a tactic with both pros and cons as is almost any negotiating tactic is when dealing with an unfamilar culture. In example even if you tell your side to avoid flirting/romance what should they do if the other side initiates it when there is a possibility that refusal could cause a negative reaction?

I was primarily referring to flirting/romance not moving on to sex. Is the objection to romance or sex outside of marriage?

I posted a way more in depth post here on this subject and would love comments and disagreement.


Captain Kirk Diplomacy (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=8736)

Bobthespirit
February 13th, 2005, 05:44 PM
I don't get people's comments about McKay being a jerk.

He was being practical. One thing that Stargate has always had that Star Trek does not is a dialogue between idealism and pragmatism. In SG1 it was just about every Daniel/Jack argument. McKay in this episode simply said 'This is the empirical truth, this is what we need to do.' They're on the verge of being wiped out. Making your case to take what you need to take to protect yourself isn't the same as an ethical compromise. And prudent suspicion of a stranger with strange unexplained abilities isn't the same as being a jerk.

You know what I'd call this episode if all the characters were perfectly respectful of the people's wishes not to allow people on their planets? Boring. "Okay...we won't trespass or bother you any more. We'll just go home and die." That I would call 'stupidity'. I, unlike a few of the other posts I've read, appreciate that the characters were not completely stupid.

As for McKay disrespecting their religion. Well, if somebody told me "We're going to send you off to die when you could effortlessly protect you because our god says not to," I'd be ticked, especially if it appeared as if they were making decisions for themselves and blaming it on their god.

Bobthespirit
February 13th, 2005, 05:52 PM
Yeah, I'm also having a harder and harder time believing that the wraithe beat the ancients. Especially since a single jumper seems to trump three or four wraithe ships.

slipstream
February 13th, 2005, 06:10 PM
I don't get people's comments about McKay being a jerk.

He was being practical. One thing that Stargate has always had that Star Trek does not is a dialogue between idealism and pragmatism. In SG1 it was just about every Daniel/Jack argument. McKay in this episode simply said 'This is the empirical truth, this is what we need to do.' They're on the verge of being wiped out. Making your case to take what you need to take to protect yourself isn't the same as an ethical compromise. And prudent suspicion of a stranger with strange unexplained abilities isn't the same as being a jerk.

You know what I'd call this episode if all the characters were perfectly respectful of the people's wishes not to allow people on their planets? Boring. "Okay...we won't trespass or bother you any more. We'll just go home and die." That I would call 'stupidity'. I, unlike a few of the other posts I've read, appreciate that the characters were not completely stupid.

As for McKay disrespecting their religion. Well, if somebody told me "We're going to send you off to die when you could effortlessly protect you because our god says not to," I'd be ticked, especially if it appeared as if they were making decisions for themselves and blaming it on their god.


Hear, Hear! I agree entirely. I think that the ill will stems from catty envy of the leading guest character and Sheppard's admiration and desire for her. With both mckay and sheppard absorbed by the exotic beauty the female fans invested in teyla and weir felt vicariously jilted.

BruceDickinson
February 13th, 2005, 06:33 PM
I wonder if I should watch the episode a 5th time, as I didn't see anything even similar to what you are talking about.

Force themselves on a planet? They weren't forcing anybody, they were discussing a treaty...

Holier than thou attitude? Once again haven't a clue as to what you are referring to...any examples?

McKay's Manifest Destiny? - Yet again I am perplexed as to what you mean by this...at no time did McKay suggest that we simply go ahead and send people there for sanctuary. Want to give an example of how you see Manifest Destiny in any part of this episode, especially in McKay.

McKay acting like their god? - What?!? Now I know you have to be watching a different episode. There was no part or dialog at all in the episode that made McKay act like he was a god to the people on the planet. He did express his dislike for their religion...but then again he's a scientist and he's McKay ;)

Initial contacts - I myself am not religious but once again I am unsure of your complaint about inital contacts. Sheppard, Teyla and Ford I thought were doing an outstanding job of trying to be understanding to their culture. Even setting aside logic to make it easier to communicate. McKay, well he spoke his mind. Which is something I have come to expect and like about McKay.

Maybe this is what you meant by all of those other comments, McKay spoke his mind throughout this entire episode. About their religion, the notion of a weapon on the planet, and finally about Chaya! IS this what you meant?

Ace

You maybe should watch this episode 5 or 6 more times because you obviously have a comprehension problem. First, you practically flame an admitted first time poster, (thanks for that schmucko) then you proceed to blunder about in your response.

I had nothing but good intentions in coming to this board but if moronic responses like this is all I can expect I will stick to posting on other forums.


They weren't forcing anybody, they were discussing a treaty...

HAHAAAAA!!! If you had any understanding of what Manifest Destiny was, then me and you could share a laugh here, but alas, you have no hope. Lets ask Sitting Bull, Red Cloud, Cochise, Big Foot and some other Indian Chiefs how honorable these "treaties" you speak of are. You make me laugh, but in an "at you" kind of way.

Here's what I said:

McKay acting like their god was a joke was pretty disturbing

To which you replied:

McKay acting like their god? - What?!?

What I WAS refering to was how McKay took their religious nature they openly displayed as if it were something to scoff at, I never said McKay actually acted like their god. You have shown you ineptitude when it comes to reading comprehension, so I can only assume that same problem haunts you when you watch programs on TV.

If you watch the show and actually pay attention, you will see that on several occasions McKay was very offensive and like I originally stated, I would hope the "best of the best" would be able to interact with aliens they meet for the first time in a more sophisticated manner.

Thanks for the warm welcome Ace. :rolleyes:

I would have never made a post like this were it not for the insulting way in which you replied to me, so think about that before you start flaming back chum.

ShadowMaat
February 13th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Why is it appallingly stupid? Historicly flirting/romance has worked very well sometimes in diplomacy and negotations. (this question is curiosity not a critical one)
You are allowed to believe anything you like. Personally, I think that romance/flirting has absolutely NO PLACE in ANY type of serious negotiations and while you maintain that it doesn't have to lead to sex, that's a level of subtlety that can be hard to define from person to person, nevermind across cultures or even SPECIES.

This has NOTHING to do with "sex outside of marriage". Puh-LEASE. I see it as being extremely disrespectful of the situation and of the people involved. I see it as stupid and arrogant and incredibly, OBVIOUSLY (in the context of the ep) hormonally driven.

Nothing you say will ever convince me otherwise and I have no desire to discuss it further.

SmartFox
February 13th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Yeah, I'm also having a harder and harder time believing that the wraithe beat the ancients. Especially since a single jumper seems to trump three or four wraithe ships.

They only had a couple jumpers where the Wraith had tons upon tons of darts. Spoilers SGA Underground Didnt they find out that there were 40 something hive ships in their sector of Pegasus galaxy alone. And a jumper cant take out a hive ship.

ShadowMaat
February 13th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I don't get people's comments about McKay being a jerk.
He definitely had some good points, it's more how he COMMUNICATED those points that people find objectionable. As I said before, McKay at his worst is never as bad as he was in Sanctuary... with the possible exception of him in 48 Hours, but he's grown a lot since then and I still find it out of character for him to behave that way.

Same goes for Shep.

Erik Bloodaxe
February 13th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I'm also having a harder and harder time believing that the wraithe beat the ancients. Especially since a single jumper seems to trump three or four wraithe ships.

Remember Rising? That ancient mentioned that they were defeated because there were overconfident and outnumbered; the Puddle Jumpers may be able to take out Wraith darts 5:1, but hardly helpful if they're outnumbered 10:1 or more. :)

-Bloodaxe

Erik Bloodaxe
February 13th, 2005, 08:04 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: whoever wrote this ep has absolutely NO CONCEPT of what the characters are really like. McKay was wildly out of character, basically a parody of himself, and Shep was almost as bad.

As a poster on my own board put it, McKay's an arrogant man who tends to think he's always right and belittles those he thinks are wrong. So how was this out of character from that? :)


There was some interesting stuff in this ep, but it was buried under smarm, cheesiness and melodrama to the point where it's barely worth the trouble to try and find the "good bits". IMO, this was one of the worst eps of the season and I hope they don't let this writer out of the closet very often. He does awful things to the characters.

Seeing as how it seems he's only written this single episode, my guess is he's not exactly one of their regulars. ;)

-Bloodaxe

ShadowMaat
February 13th, 2005, 08:18 PM
As a poster on my own board put it, McKay's an arrogant man who tends to think he's always right and belittles those he thinks are wrong. So how was this out of character from that? :)
*sigh* There are degrees of arrogance, degrees of belittling and degrees of sarcasm. If you can't understand that much then there is no feasible way for me to explain the difference. :P

Bobthespirit
February 13th, 2005, 08:58 PM
That was a great line in The Eye.

"In case you haven't been paying attention, I'm an extremely arrogant man!"

McKay's not really strong on social graces. When he disagrees with somebody his first impulse is to get in their face and hostily explain why they're wrong. But I didn't see this as any more prominent in this episode than in another Classic Trek-esque episode, the '25 year old sacrifice' one which I forgot the name of.

Erik Bloodaxe
February 13th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Well after they ascended they could have wiped them out and saved the pegusus galaxy, but that would have been braking the rules...never mind.
here's the link to what the paper said:
The Ascended Times (http://www.scifigate.net/theascendedtimes.php)


LMAO (at that spoiler link). Is that what it really said, or is some of that made up? :)

-Bloodaxe

Erik Bloodaxe
February 13th, 2005, 09:39 PM
*sigh* There are degrees of arrogance, degrees of belittling and degrees of sarcasm. If you can't understand that much then there is no feasible way for me to explain the difference. :P

48 Hours: "You are a certified whackjob, and so are all the rest of you if you even listen to her!" Yes, degrees. :) Which degree does that make McKay? :-P

No misunderstanding here; I was just pointing out that McKay tends to be rather more blatant than yourself, and in the path of character development it's not uncommon for people to slip into a previous frame of mind once in a while, and that seemed to be the case here (perhaps out of frustration of having not yet found any help against the Wraith); and for the record, his "slip" wasn't quite as bad as Hammond's backward slip during "Spirits" in which he should've learned a whole lot more by that point. :D

Oh, and as a final comment, that arrogance and belittling nature that makes McKay overly annoying and unbearable at times is also what makes him such fun at other times; it really just depends on whether or not you agree w/ him at the time, and this just wasn't one of those times. ;) But when he's belittling someone like Koyla, then it's fun. :D

-Bloodaxe

Angelique
February 14th, 2005, 05:17 AM
LMAO (at that spoiler link). Is that what it really said, or is some of that made up? :)

-Bloodaxe
I'm pretty sure they didn't make any of that up,Loved the part about the exploding cat LOL! :p :D

FoolishPleasure
February 14th, 2005, 07:22 AM
This certainly wasn't the brightest episode I've ever seen. Folks may like Chaya because she is "hot" but I found her a bit disturbing. She certainly didn't want any advancement amongst her people. She was ruling a totally stagnant civilization and she had no intention of allowing her people to expand, learn, or grow in any way. Does she have "control" problems?

Rodney had issues with her, so did Beckett, but Weir didn't listen to either of them, which really bothered me. In fact Weir had no problem with Shep taking Chaya all over the place, looking at sensitive equipment, learning they were just a small group, with little defenses. Uh, that seemed just dumb to be telling an alien that you don't really know!

And as for Shep taking off alone in the puddlejumper at the end. . to help her save her people. She has taken care of them for thousands of years - what was his deal? That one line of dialogue has to be one of the worst lines ever written for this show in its first season. And why did Weir let him go? *duh*

During the picnic scene, my husband walked out of the room and asked me to let him know when "Galactica" started. It has to be pretty bad for him to walk out. Every show is allowed their "dog" episodes - I will forget about this one, never watch it again, and move on to better things next week. :D

Matt G
February 14th, 2005, 08:20 AM
The wierd thing is...a certain individual that I IM with who'll remain nameless reckoned this ep takes the rest of Atlantis to the cleaners! And this guy usually sets the bar higher than I do in terms of ep quality - I reckoned that hot female aside, it was OK but not much more than that.

His take on the comments here were: "Well if the characterisation was way off in this ep that that doesn't say much about the rest of the series"

Bastet11191967
February 14th, 2005, 09:28 AM
Rodney had issues with her, so did Beckett, but Weir didn't listen to either of them, which really bothered me. In fact Weir had no problem with Shep taking Chaya all over the place, looking at sensitive equipment, learning they were just a small group, with little defenses. Uh, that seemed just dumb to be telling an alien that you don't really know!

And as for Shep taking off alone in the puddlejumper at the end. . to help her save her people. She has taken care of them for thousands of years - what was his deal? That one line of dialogue has to be one of the worst lines ever written for this show in its first season. And why did Weir let him go? *duh*

I thought Weir and Shepard was taking quite a chance allowing Chaya access to sensitive equipment and information, because for all they knew, she could have been an agent of the Genii or worse.:S As for McKay acting like a jerk, he has demonstrated previously that when he gets scared, he tends to lash out, so it didn't seem too out of character for him. (In real life, that is a normal reaction for some people.) I think religion is a very sore subject for him too. I did get a chuckle out out of McKay comparing Shepard to Caption Kirk.

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 14th, 2005, 09:33 AM
It did seem very odd to me that they showed this woman absolutely everything knowing that there was something off about her. I didn't think the ep was terrible (I loved the Capt. Kirk comparisons), but I was left at the end feeling: "ok. so what?" How does this affect, well, anything at Atlantis? She's just going back to her planet, the end? Seems like a poor excuse to give Sheppard someone to kiss. But I loved, loved Rodney. They're really giving the character depth. McKay used to be mildly amusing, kinda annoying-I can only take him for 5 minutes at a time, but now he's becoming a fav character.

DarkQuee1
February 14th, 2005, 12:55 PM
He definitely had some good points, it's more how he COMMUNICATED those points that people find objectionable. As I said before, McKay at his worst is never as bad as he was in Sanctuary... with the possible exception of him in 48 Hours, but he's grown a lot since then and I still find it out of character for him to behave that way.

Same goes for Shep.


The problem for me with McKay is that there are times when he comes across as an idiot savant, with the emphasis on the idiot. He's not stupid, so why can't he figure out when to zip his lip? In at least two earlier eps (the one with the Genii was one), he blabbed information about Atlantis and their technology and the like that anyone with half a brain would know you don't go around telling total strangers.

And in the first part of this ep, he was a guest on this world and his comments and attitude were absurd. This man has a damaged sense of self-perservation: he recognizes the danger in a gun, but not in trampling all over another people's beliefs and culture. He's lucky they were pacifists and not Aztec; he would have been skewered in the first five minutes.

And there's a limit to how much you can excuse it because he's an arrogant SOB. At some point, his colleagues have right to expect him to actually *learn* from his mistakes.

J.

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 14th, 2005, 01:12 PM
And in the first part of this ep, he was a guest on this world and his comments and attitude were absurd. This man has a damaged sense of self-perservation: he recognizes the danger in a gun, but not in trampling all over another people's beliefs and culture.

Despite the depth they've given him on Atlantis, Mckay is still just a wee bit egocentric. Most people with that kind of self-absorption (especially the "geek" of the show) don't equate that same level of danger with trampling over another cultures's beliefs.

C'mon, weren't you rolling your eyes just a little at "Athar will take care of everything, Athar provides," etc.? :D

FoolishPleasure
February 14th, 2005, 01:22 PM
C'mon, weren't you rolling your eyes just a little at "Athar will take care of everything, Athar provides," etc.? :D
*LOL* yep - Athar sure didn't want her people to LEARN anything either. Keep 'em in the uneducated dark ages. .easier to control. ;)

As for McKay being more obnoxious than usual in this episode, yeah, I think so, but I think he was very frustrated with no one bothering to listen to his concerns. And, yes, he probably tramples cultural beliefs all the time. That is just Rodney. :D

Ace
February 14th, 2005, 09:21 PM
You maybe should watch this episode 5 or 6 more times because you obviously have a comprehension problem. First, you practically flame an admitted first time poster, (thanks for that schmucko) then you proceed to blunder about in your response.

I had nothing but good intentions in coming to this board but if moronic responses like this is all I can expect I will stick to posting on other forums.

Ok first off...as you have stated you are a first time poster. Because of this, maybe you aren't aware that I was not insulting you. No where in my post did I insult you, instead I ask for clarification on many of your view points because I did not agree with them or see them in the episode.

A good idea would have been to respond and reinforce your arguments instead of coming right out and insulting me! But that's ok, as you said you are a first time poster. So I'll let it slide, I have sent you a Private Message as well. ;-)




HAHAAAAA!!! If you had any understanding of what Manifest Destiny was, then me and you could share a laugh here, but alas, you have no hope. Lets ask Sitting Bull, Red Cloud, Cochise, Big Foot and some other Indian Chiefs how honorable these "treaties" you speak of are. You make me laugh, but in an "at you" kind of way.

Once again, you did not need to insult me by saying I did not understand what Manifest Destiny was. But as a first time poster, I guess your reaction to a post that did not agree with you, was to fire back with insults. No Problem. :D I see your point about treaties America made with Native Americans, in which WE completely ignored later and forced them ever further west.

You bring up a good point, but one could also argue that every time we walk through the Stargate we are imposing our Manifest Destiny on others. Our very presence in Atlantis confirms this notion. We aren't even from the same galaxy, yet we are the ones that occupy Atlantis with the Athosians as our GUESTS.


What I WAS refering to was how McKay took their religious nature they openly displayed as if it were something to scoff at, I never said McKay actually acted like their god. You have shown you ineptitude when it comes to reading comprehension, so I can only assume that same problem haunts you when you watch programs on TV.

Once again I mentioned the insults, so we don't need to go there again. However I see what you wrote was very ambiguous and confused me and probably others in the way it was written.


McKay acting like their god was a joke was pretty disturbing

The way you wrote this sentence, it sounds like McKay is "acting" like a god. Instead what you meant to say was that McKay was unappreciative of the Proculans's religious beliefs, and that their religion was a joke. Very confusing.


If you watch the show and actually pay attention, you will see that on several occasions McKay was very offensive and like I originally stated, I would hope the "best of the best" would be able to interact with aliens they meet for the first time in a more sophisticated manner.

Indeed I do watch the show and pay attention, I've been watching Stargate for all 8 seasons, and consider myself a loyal fan. I agree McKay came off very offensive, however that is character McKay is ever since the SG-1 episode "48 hours". This is probably why Major Sheppard sent the rest of the team away because they “weren’t helping”.



Thanks for the warm welcome Ace. :rolleyes:

I would have never made a post like this were it not for the insulting way in which you replied to me, so think about that before you start flaming back chum.

I'm sorry you feel that I insulted you; I have already apologized to you in a Private message. Though I never insulted you, I simply did not understand your view points on the episode and asked at several points for examples of your view points. Which you sort of did in this recent post....

I do not flame others, especially those that are new to this forum. This forum is for intellectual conversations about the episodes among fans, not for insulting others. Some of the best conversations I have had in this forum are with those that disagree and have different view points then my own.

We get to discuss the merits of each person's points/values and generally talk about Stargate in general. It can be very rewarding, so I'm sorry if you feel you were insulted. It was never my intention. ;) Look forward to your reply

Ace

Stargate
February 14th, 2005, 09:39 PM
i dont see how you insulted him

SmartFox
February 14th, 2005, 10:13 PM
I do not flame others, especially those that are new to this forum. This forum is for intellectual conversations about the episodes among fans, not for insulting others. Some of the best conversations I have had in this forum are with those that disagree and have different view points then my own.
Ace


Thats the way i always think. Of course none of my family will have debates with me anymore about anything especially my sister. I think its because im very opinated and am very strong in voicing my opinions. Maybe ill put a disclaimer on my signature warning people not to get to offended by what i say.

watcher652
February 15th, 2005, 06:23 PM
I liked Sanctuary. And this is why -

McKay: All I know is she's not who she's pretending to be.
Weir: And you know this because?
McKay: What, I'm not allowed to have intuition?
Weir: You? No.
McKay: Oh.

And

McKay to Sheppard: I'm sorry, I know I'm normally Mr. Sensitive, but you gotta believe me, that there is something about her... I know it's intangible, but I can feel it.

McKay is about truth. That’s why he’s an awful bluffer. He knew there was something not truthful about Chaya, but he couldn’t express it. And when he tried to alert the others of his suspicions, he was brushed off. McKay doesn’t have feelings, he has hard data. Only when he had the hard data to back up his feelings did anyone take him the least bit seriously.

McKay never said Chaya was evil. He just knew that there was something wrong about her story. And he was beside himself trying to convince the others that this is not a good thing.

When he made his declaration that Chaya was an Ancient, it was another leap in his intuition.

McKay: She’s an Ancient, Major.
Sheppard: She’s what?
McKay: I’m right aren’t I? The perfect health, the energy weapon, the fact that she has the Ancient gene. It’s the only logical explanation.

And

McKay: I just don’t understand the act. I mean, you must know we’d give just about anything to talk to you, to, to learn from you. What is it? What are you, checking us out?

McKay said this with such a pained look on his face.

And

Weir: He’s right?
McKay: I’m right?

Poor McKay. He’s in charge of trying to figure out all the Ancient stuff. Here’s an opportunity to talk to an Ancient, but she won’t, she can’t. He had an Ancient right there in Atlantis and couldn’t get one single bit of information out of her. That must have really disappointed and frustrated him.

It must have really hurt McKay to know he wasn’t going to be taken seriously because he has feelings. After all this time, no one was willing to take that leap of faith and trust him, they trusted this person they just met more.

I appreciated this look of McKay outside his box.

Mil
February 18th, 2005, 10:07 AM
ShadowMaat I realize you want no further discussion but I wanted to respond so at least others could share ideas even if you do not want to.
You are allowed to believe anything you like. Personally, I think that romance/flirting has absolutely NO PLACE in ANY type of serious negotiations and while you maintain that it doesn't have to lead to sex, that's a level of subtlety that can be hard to define from person to person, nevermind across cultures or even SPECIES.

This has NOTHING to do with "sex outside of marriage". Puh-LEASE. I see it as being extremely disrespectful of the situation and of the people involved. I see it as stupid and arrogant and incredibly, OBVIOUSLY (in the context of the ep) hormonally driven.

Nothing you say will ever convince me otherwise and I have no desire to discuss it further.
I thought we were having a discussion not a statement of beliefs. Your original comment is rude to dismiss an opposing view as stupid without giving an rational argument. To me you have no intention of convincing others that your belief is correct without being willing to discuss the reasons. You could convince me your right others have changed my opinon on other topics.

I do agree that hormonally driven romances are dumb and if that was the only thing going on it was dumb.
“ I think that romance/flirting has absolutely NO PLACE in ANY type of serious negotiations“

That‘s your cultural view that may be a good idea inside our culture and a good idea after cultural understanding can be built with another culture. What if their culture thinks romance/flirting does have an important place in serious negotiations? Are you going to offend them be refusing to participate?

“...that's a level of subtlety that can be hard to define from person to person, nevermind across cultures or even SPECIES.“

I agree and that applies to all aspects of negotiation with a forgen culture or Species. You can be damned if you do you can be damned if you don’t. If you had argued that the Con’s of romance out weigh the Pro’s or had said that you thought romance was an unwise idea I would have understood but stupid indicates there is no Pro’s and that my argument was ignorant.

“I see it as being extremely disrespectful of the situation and of the people involved.“ That sounds similar to views that got many missionaries killed by natives because the missionaries refused to bend their moral views to be accommodating to local views.

Mil
February 18th, 2005, 10:23 AM
I liked Sanctuary. And this is why -

McKay: All I know is she's not who she's pretending to be.
Weir: And you know this because?
McKay: What, I'm not allowed to have intuition?
Weir: You? No.
McKay: Oh.

And

McKay to Sheppard: I'm sorry, I know I'm normally Mr. Sensitive, but you gotta believe me, that there is something about her... I know it's intangible, but I can feel it.

McKay is about truth. That’s why he’s an awful bluffer. He knew there was something not truthful about Chaya, but he couldn’t express it. And when he tried to alert the others of his suspicions, he was brushed off. McKay doesn’t have feelings, he has hard data. Only when he had the hard data to back up his feelings did anyone take him the least bit seriously.

McKay never said Chaya was evil. He just knew that there was something wrong about her story. And he was beside himself trying to convince the others that this is not a good thing.

When he made his declaration that Chaya was an Ancient, it was another leap in his intuition.

McKay: She’s an Ancient, Major.
Sheppard: She’s what?
McKay: I’m right aren’t I? The perfect health, the energy weapon, the fact that she has the Ancient gene. It’s the only logical explanation.

And

McKay: I just don’t understand the act. I mean, you must know we’d give just about anything to talk to you, to, to learn from you. What is it? What are you, checking us out?

McKay said this with such a pained look on his face.

And

Weir: He’s right?
McKay: I’m right?

Poor McKay. He’s in charge of trying to figure out all the Ancient stuff. Here’s an opportunity to talk to an Ancient, but she won’t, she can’t. He had an Ancient right there in Atlantis and couldn’t get one single bit of information out of her. That must have really disappointed and frustrated him.

It must have really hurt McKay to know he wasn’t going to be taken seriously because he has feelings. After all this time, no one was willing to take that leap of faith and trust him, they trusted this person they just met more.

I appreciated this look of McKay outside his box.

I thought the only stupid thing about McKay is that the team lets him interact directly with the natives. Although annoying he is a very valuable asset to the team and you need a view point like his around when deciding what to do. Just keep him on communications back at HQ or in a jumper or somehow get him to keep his mouth closed and share his opinion only in private with the rest of the team.

Buzz Lightyear
February 18th, 2005, 11:03 AM
You maybe should watch this episode 5 or 6 more times because you obviously have a comprehension problem. First, you practically flame an admitted first time poster, (thanks for that schmucko) then you proceed to blunder about in your response.

I had nothing but good intentions in coming to this board but if moronic responses like this is all I can expect I will stick to posting on other forums.

Thanks for the warm welcome Ace. :rolleyes:

I would have never made a post like this were it not for the insulting way in which you replied to me, so think about that before you start flaming back chum.

I think you owe Ace an apology. I read the original response and it was in no way offensive or insulting to you. Can't say the same for your subsequent response.

It was a legitimate misread on Ace's part of your statement about McKay treating their culture's god like a joke. Using the word "acting" in the context you did is what created the confusion.