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GateWorld
November 7th, 2004, 06:22 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/112.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/112.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>THE DEFIANT ONE</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 112</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Sheppard's team investigates a downed Wraith ship, and find themselves stuck on a planet with a lone Wraith survivor.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/1x1.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 06:13 PM
Since I can't start any new threads in the episode discussion section, this should be fused into the official thread. I will warn for SPOILERS here and now, since this is a temporary thread for the episode.

DO NOT READ ON IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS.

I just saw it and LOVED it.

From what I could see, we've seen two new pieces of Wraith technology: A Cargo ship and a Wraith Grenade.

From what I can see the grenade has massive radius, with blast noise that can be heard for several hundreds of meters, with a lot of impact noise.
Also, there was a LOT of development on the Wraith: we now know that if a Wraith has fed recently, they can regenerate much faster and much more damage.

What with the wraith having fed upon two men, he was able to take well over 20 P90 rounds, three full clips from a handgun and a Wraith Grenade, nearly in his face, yet KEPT ON GOING.

I believe that this is why the Ancients had a hard time during the war: the wraith are incredibly resiliant when they feed appropriately. Making their bodies nearly impossible to kill without having them vaporized.

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 06:56 PM
First I went, "Hey! It's Nyan!"

I was surprised to see those glowy enegry beings that first appeared in the episode Prodigy. Those things are cool. Maybe we'll get to know more about them!

Loved the Wraith (Greg as my mom was calling him lol). He was cool! Just about as cool as Steve!

I feel sorry for McKay. He had to see the guy... well, kill himself.

Loved how McKay and John were kind of pissed off at each other for a little while there, and then how McKay was all impaitent...

Wasn't much Teyla, Ford, or Elizabeth but hey, who needs them when we got John, McKay, and Greg?? :P

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 06:58 PM
I found McKay's bravery quite interesting, showing that he's not just a wuss who's smart, he can dish out some kind of damage (TWO clips into that Wraith, pretty cool)

I also feel sorry for Sheppard. He got shot in the arm, he got beat on, he almost got blown up...

He needs a break...

Skydiver
November 15th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Have fun you wild and wacky canadians...and thanks MF

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:01 PM
I found McKay's bravery quite interesting, showing that he's not just a wuss who's smart, he can dish out some kind of damage (TWO clips into that Wraith, pretty cool)

I also feel sorry for Sheppard. He got shot in the arm, he got beat on, he almost got blown up...

He needs a break...
That's why McKay was gonna fly home :D

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:01 PM
Hey, do you think you could just merge the 'The Defiant One (112) (Spoilers)' thread with this one? Me and Gothann were having a little talk about the episode already. :D

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Hey, do you think you could just merge the 'The Defiant One (112) (Spoilers)' thread with this one? Me and Gothann were having a little talk about the episode already. :D
Yes, it would be good to have it incorporated.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=5938
That's the link.

As for continuation... McKay seemed to have liked flying the PJ, just that... he doesn't know how to pilot squat. He needs a LOT of practice. Either that, or he was just playing around.

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 07:06 PM
No need for that now...

Oh, I also noticed something, if anyone read the "Annals of the Curator" on SciFi's site, it talks about how Wraith warriors that were injured were fed upon by the other Wraith.

I guess that small side-story has some canon to it, what with the Wraith warrior being cannibalized by "Greg" (I think that may become his unofficial name now)

queenselqet31
November 15th, 2004, 07:06 PM
Wasn't much of Ford, but ARMS OMG. *dies*

corey2002
November 15th, 2004, 07:08 PM
was i the only 1 surprised at the length of time (long for such an obvious thing-in my opinion)it took shepard to figur out that that wraith thing was a grenade?

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 07:09 PM
Ooh, forgot to mention something else before I go AFK.

In the showdown between Sheppard and "Greg", "Greg" learned how to use a handgun REALLY quickly... Could it be that the Wraith have advanced analysis abilities? Because, it seems to me that no wraith or ancient weapon has a finger-operated trigger. Not to mention how "Greg" had killer aim in a fast-paced skirmish.

corey2002
November 15th, 2004, 07:11 PM
Since I can't start any new threads in the episode discussion section, this should be fused into the official thread. I will warn for SPOILERS here and now, since this is a temporary thread for the episode.

DO NOT READ ON IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS.

I just saw it and LOVED it.

From what I could see, we've seen two new pieces of Wraith technology: A Cargo ship and a Wraith Grenade.

From what I can see the grenade has massive radius, with blast noise that can be heard for several hundreds of meters, with a lot of impact noise.
Also, there was a LOT of development on the Wraith: we now know that if a Wraith has fed recently, they can regenerate much faster and much more damage.

What with the wraith having fed upon two men, he was able to take well over 20 P90 rounds, three full clips from a handgun and a Wraith Grenade, nearly in his face, yet KEPT ON GOING.

I believe that this is why the Ancients had a hard time during the war: the wraith are incredibly resiliant when they feed appropriately. Making their bodies nearly impossible to kill without having them vaporized.

the thing about feeding recently is a "THEORY"-not fact ;)

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 07:14 PM
the thing about feeding recently is a "THEORY"-not fact ;)
Even so, it's consistent with what was seen in other instances. Tough Wraith warriors were taken down by less than twenty P90 bullets, yet this one was able to regenerate after having been showered with bullets.

The main thing: Steve, the Wraith warriors, and the Wraith keeper, they all seemed to have fed a very long time ago, or took way too much bodily damage to heal (in the Keeper's case, a metal rod through the gut)

McKay might be right, especially since "Greg" took the life of two men before engaging Sheppard in battle.

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:22 PM
Ooh, forgot to mention something else before I go AFK.

In the showdown between Sheppard and "Greg", "Greg" learned how to use a handgun REALLY quickly... Could it be that the Wraith have advanced analysis abilities? Because, it seems to me that no wraith or ancient weapon has a finger-operated trigger. Not to mention how "Greg" had killer aim in a fast-paced skirmish.
I think a gun is pretty simple. You got a little place to put your figure, you aim and pull. Maybe we missed a part where Greg accidently shot himself.

Chlex
November 15th, 2004, 07:30 PM
Oooh! Recycling the glowing bugs from Prodigy? Not smooth. Kinda like reusing ex-SG1 characters, only people actually remember them… but that really was a tiny issue when you think about how fabulous this episode was. Again, Sheppard was the one-man-army. I loved how he was rolling around in dirt and getting shot at... the scene reminded me of a desert war movie or something.

Great to see some character development for McKay… I like that they’re not rushing into anything with him. He’s still such an arrogant geek, I don’t want him to lose that. Did you see those sparks fly between McKay and Sheppard on the Wraith ship? Er… completely heterosexual sparks of course. Those two just have a great dynamic.

So Ford was in the episode for about thirty seconds. Weir came in close second with twenty five, and Teyla… I believe she had a line in there somewhere. I missed them in this ep, where’s the team? The two sacrificial scientists were necessary to the plot, but they just weren’t as interesting. That Wraith was damn scary though. Interesting that they're harder to kill after they’ve just eaten…

Anyway, this episode definitely had an amazing ‘look’ to it. I didn’t notice any obvious plot holes (not that I was looking hard) and they had a really great mix of suspense/humor in the script… I just really enjoyed every minute.

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:33 PM
Wasn't much of Ford, but ARMS OMG. *dies*
Oh yeah, go for the arms. It's all about the arms with you isn't it?

What about Greg! THINK OF GREG DAMNIT! :(

corey2002
November 15th, 2004, 07:38 PM
Oh yeah, go for the arms. It's all about the arms with you isn't it?

What about Greg! THINK OF GREG DAMNIT! :(
what was the guys real(character) name(the guy that killed himself)

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:38 PM
Oooh! Recycling the glowing bugs from Prodigy? Not smooth. Kinda like reusing ex-SG1 characters, only people actually remember them…
They aren't recycling them... Really.

It's not like they're completely different. We get to find out more about them. Seems like they just weren't on that moon. They're in the Pegasus galaxy too so they must have some sort of significance... I hope.

They're cool anyways, so don't diss them :P

Now I noticed Nyan right off the bat lol. Seems like he's a little chubbier than we last saw him.

I have a theory. Nyan (after he came to Earth), changed his name and lived among the people for a few years, discovered his nack for science, sneaked aboard the Atlantis expedition, and POOF! There he is getting motion sickness and getting the life sucked out of him and such...

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:40 PM
what was the guys real(character) name(the guy that killed himself)
... Very-Pissed-Off-10,000-Year-Old-Cannibal-Wraith-That-Just-Can't-Get-A-Break-And-Probably-Now-Doesn't-Like-Energy-Bars I'm guessing.

Never gave him a name.

My mom gave him the name Greg lol. Gotta love my mom lol.

Edit: Ah! You were talking about Nyan! Richard Cox.

You replied to my comment about Greg so I assumed that were talking about him...

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 07:50 PM
As for the gun part, "Greg" couldn't have shot himself. He grabbed the 9mm pack, looked inside, took one 9mm handgun out, threw it on the floor.

After having been hit by Sheppard's P90, he fell with his hand next to the 9mm. He takes it, then aims (quite well, might I add) at Sheppard, shooting and missing, until he hits Shep. in the arm.
Guns ARE hard to handle. For someone who doesn't know anything about terran technology, he learned QUITE fast how to use a handgun accurately.

As for Weir, Teyla, and Ford... Well, this WASN'T their episode. The episode was made to develop Sheppard and McKay. And I must say, it was very well done. McKay's arrogance was shot down by the constant waiting in the supply ship. Not to mention, his arrogance was thrown aside when he faced "Greg" one on one.

Go McKay!

MartoufMarty
November 15th, 2004, 07:54 PM
I 'twas only kidding about the gun scene :P

Maybe they could add in another scene where he does shoot himself.

Gothann
November 15th, 2004, 07:59 PM
I 'twas only kidding about the gun scene :P

Maybe they could add in another scene where he does shoot himself.
That would be preferable, seeing as how "Greg" takes it out so clumsily, without any visible knowlege of how to hold the thing (he holds it by the connection between the barrel and the handle, from the top).

All of a sudden, he just seemed to analyse the gun, take it into one hand and start shooting with it. Though, I think it was good to show he doesn't know that the guns have limited physical ammo (clips).

Dallista
November 16th, 2004, 01:03 AM
I think this has just become my fave episode of the season (so far, anyway). McKay and Sheppard are my two fave 'main cast' characters, and this was such a great episode to see these characters develop. I loved how not-Nyan (took me about half the episode to figure out why he looked so familiar!) realized how much McKay has changed; that he did want to go out there and fight. How different from the geeky arrogant scientist we met on Stargate SG-1!

Angel of Fire SG1
November 16th, 2004, 01:26 AM
I LOVED THIS EPISODE!!!!

MCKAY AND SHEPPARD ARE SOOO COOL! I love them both so much, especially together!!

And I loved that they brought the bugs into it!! It could suggest something very intersting about them....maybe they'll become more important later!!!

soulblade64
November 16th, 2004, 03:21 AM
i really enjoyed this episode. the explosion at the end could have been better.

i was wondering though, how did ford and teyla know they were going to a desert planet (desert camo gear). i reckon it could've been from the ancients archive.

Angel of Fire SG1
November 16th, 2004, 04:24 AM
THAT'S WAT I WAS THINKING!!!

Great minds think alike :p :D

AlphaBlu
November 16th, 2004, 04:39 AM
I like "Greg". Let's go with Greg.

I was actually kinda hoping that it was Nyan, and they were finally clearing up the problem of where he's been for the past 5 years, but it wasn't.

And the glowy things. I'm willing to go with them being related to the Prodigy glow-bugs, not just a rehash.

Anyway, Greg was very cool. The fights between Sheppard and him were well put together. I don't think he worked out the gun to quickly. Guns are obvious. He didn't know what it was at first, but then he saw Sheppard firing a bigger one at him and thought 'Hmm...'. The trigger part should be a give-away too.

McKay was his excellent self again. I was so happy when he showed up, and really felt for him when Nyan (I'm gonna call him that) killed himself. He acted that scene very well.

Speaking of acting, young Lieutenant Ford was a bit over-enthusiastic with his first line to Weir. It was terrible. He sounded so urgent, yet Weir was so calm. And so what if Weir wasn't in it all the time, when it's an "out in the field" episode she's the Hammond character, and Hammond sometimes only showed up once of twice during an episode.

It was poor Teyla who got to do nothing this time around.

BYE

Major Fischer
November 16th, 2004, 06:07 AM
Just a comment on handguns.

I'm an expert shot with a rifle (not being self important, I have the certificates to prove it). I have trouble hitting the board side of a barn with a handgun and I know how to shoot them. They are hard weapons to be accurate with and require a fair bit of training to understand. Even when you do know where your hand goes and that you are supposed to pull a trigger.

Question. Did anyone see Greg flip a safety? Was this thing supposedly stored with the safety off?

MartoufMarty
November 16th, 2004, 06:08 AM
Yay! Greg! :D

(Thank my mom for that name lol)

Gothann
November 16th, 2004, 06:55 AM
Just a comment on handguns.

I'm an expert shot with a rifle (not being self important, I have the certificates to prove it). I have trouble hitting the board side of a barn with a handgun and I know how to shoot them. They are hard weapons to be accurate with and require a fair bit of training to understand. Even when you do know where your hand goes and that you are supposed to pull a trigger.

Question. Did anyone see Greg flip a safety? Was this thing supposedly stored with the safety off?
I'm pretty sure he must have knocked the safety off when he threw it down (he grabbed it, but when he threw it down he might have flipped it)

If not, well... The handguns aren't made for "safety" when in hostile territory. If they pull out their sidearms, it's probably because they NEED to, due to the P90 being empty of broken. So they need quick reaction time (every split second counts against the Wraith)

tfalls1
November 16th, 2004, 07:29 AM
Did anyone else notice that the Wraith found the shield button in the Puddle Jumper something that has never been shown before and at the very end there was hardly any mention made of it ???? Hope they come back in another episode and sort out the eventual exploration of the giant weapons platform!

Gothann
November 16th, 2004, 07:51 AM
Umm, Sheppard says at the end "You can drive", "assuming you can lower the shield."

The shield wasn't lowered during all of that time..

aAnubiSs
November 16th, 2004, 08:47 AM
Must be a small solar system. 15h with a PJ, and I believe they said that the planet was on the other side of the solar system. so the solar system must be around 7.5 lighthours in radius... "big"

Blueicus
November 16th, 2004, 10:57 AM
Where was it established that Puddle Jumpers travel at light speed when they are not passing through a stargate? I'm not always great at picking up minute details.

aschen
November 16th, 2004, 11:10 AM
I'm getting really sick of my threads constantly being closed down. :mad:

I'll be watching this episode tonight.

On a scale of 1-10 how good was it?

Shipperahoy
November 16th, 2004, 11:22 AM
Good episode. Poor Nyan. I too wish it could have really been Nyan. It would have been a nice way of clearing up what he's been doing since season 3. Then there's Rasta Wraith (nice dreadlocks buddy). I like Shep and McKay's interaction. Those two play well off of each other. Oh and Ford looks nice in the no sleeves t-shirt. :D I wasn't expecting the Prodigy bugs and I kept expecting them to start turning pyscho. I liked the energy bar scene a lot. They were like pigeons at the park. I love Shep's "You've got to be kidding me" after Rasta Wraith got back up after being practically blown up.

veneticuss
November 16th, 2004, 12:33 PM
Good episode, i dont understand though, how come all the things didnt kill him
As we've seen, sometimes hlaf of p90 is enough, well for this time i dont get it

Wass
November 16th, 2004, 12:40 PM
Because he had something to eat before he got shot therefore he’s body regenerated quickly now you know what ancients were up against.

aAnubiSs
November 16th, 2004, 12:59 PM
Where was it established that Puddle Jumpers travel at light speed when they are not passing through a stargate? I'm not always great at picking up minute details.
My fault, if the galaxy is 15h wide, then it should be 7.5 lighthours at most. 0.5c is about max you can do without frelling up the time-relativity.

veneticuss
November 16th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Because he had something to eat before he got shot therefore he’s body regenerated quickly now you know what ancients were up against.
Yeah, but i had a feeling he was quiet tired though

aAnubiSs
November 16th, 2004, 01:10 PM
I don't think the Ancients problem were the Wraiths regenerative powers, I doubt the Ancients did much ground combat. Most of it was probably in space.

PlaZ
November 16th, 2004, 02:01 PM
great ep. could've had more infos on that satelite thingy. gotta love huge floating advanced weapon stations in space.

had the feeling the producers were trying to underline kay's and shep's ability to kick ass and keep their cool if the situation affords it, considering we just had the two parter which was pretty much about the same thing.

but cool very cool (even better with more ancient techy stuff)

Teal'c
November 16th, 2004, 03:05 PM
OK, firstly I want to state this, and I'll bold it to make sure people do see it :P

The bugs were not the same ones from Prodigy

A) They were clearly smaller.
B) You could see a fly-like centre in their glow.
C) They exerted no properties the same as the Prodigy bugs, save floating and glowing.

Our Wraith, "Greg" (I prefere Clive :P), was able to crush them. Prodigy beings would have went through his hand.

Also, I loved when Nyan shot himself... I hope that doesn't sound odd. The way it was shot, and McKay's reaction. It just reaffirmed my belief that David Hewlett is the greatest actor of all time.

Positively Kanyon
November 16th, 2004, 05:17 PM
Also, I loved when Nyan shot himself... I hope that doesn't sound odd. The way it was shot, and McKay's reaction. It just reaffirmed my belief that David Hewlett is the greatest actor of all time.

I agree with you there, Sheppard and McKay did an absolutely fantastic job this episode. I think the team is starting to gel together very well in the first season. This episode would have to be one of my favourites so far this year.

donnie_darko
November 16th, 2004, 05:18 PM
What I liked about this ep. is that we have more info on the Wraith and the Puddle Jumper.
highlight to read
1) We know that the P.J. has shields.
Its just you can't activate it by thought, there must be some button combination that turns them on because the wraith had to rewire the ship to get them on. Although because he had to rewire things it might not be a regular function of the ship, the wraith might have rigged up some sort of energy field by using the engines or some other system.

2) The wraith can feed on Humans/Ancients/Wraith with different effects for each.
Have suspected but never had confirmation, and it seems that the older they are or depending on what and when they are feed the harder to kill them. Or they gain some of the power from the thing they ate. If they eat an Ancient then they might gain some extra healing power or something. It can’t just be from the time they last ate, the hive keeper that they killed ate at least two people and it was just killed by stabbing it with a wraith weapon.

aschen
November 16th, 2004, 06:03 PM
That WAS a great episode!!

Gothann
November 16th, 2004, 06:55 PM
What I liked about this ep. is that we have more info on the Wraith and the Puddle Jumper.
highlight to read
1) We know that the P.J. has shields.
Its just you can't activate it by thought, there must be some button combination that turns them on because the wraith had to rewire the ship to get them on. Although because he had to rewire things it might not be a regular function of the ship, the wraith might have rigged up some sort of energy field by using the engines or some other system.

2) The wraith can feed on Humans/Ancients/Wraith with different effects for each.
Have suspected but never had confirmation, and it seems that the older they are or depending on what and when they are feed the harder to kill them. Or they gain some of the power from the thing they ate. If they eat an Ancient then they might gain some extra healing power or something. It can’t just be from the time they last ate, the hive keeper that they killed ate at least two people and it was just killed by stabbing it with a wraith weapon.
Spoilers aren't needed in this thread.

Anywhoo, the Wraith keeper had fed on people, yes, but she was also dealt massive damage compared to smaller bullet holes. Being stabbed by such a large weapon, with it being stuck there, must have cause some of her internal organs to shut down, requiring much more regeneration in order to survive, thus killing her.

As for the PJ, while there was no doubt that the Ancients had put a shield on PJs, it was only a matter of time before the terrans found out that those things had shields. Looks like Sheppard found out the hard way.

april_flower75
November 16th, 2004, 07:18 PM
Anyone else notice that McKay did NOT tell Sheppard that Brenden (that was his name), killed himself. He just basically said he didn't make it. Seeing as watching somebody kill themselves in front of you is a pretty tramatic experience, I think keeping this to himself is going to result in some serious emotion problems in the future for Rodney. Yay! more angsty acting from David Hewlett! I think this experience alone will change him, Rodney is growing every episode, and i loved how Brenden pointed that out to him earlier. Some attention needed to be brought to the fact that McKay is changing and developing (which is more than u can say about any of the other characters).

MartoufMarty
November 16th, 2004, 07:22 PM
We've just seen Rodney change so much from when we first saw him in 48 Hours.

He was quite angsty out in the rain in The Eye, and he just keeps on getting so much more angsty...er...

april_flower75
November 16th, 2004, 07:26 PM
Yes, but angsty with emotional trauma is something we havent seen yet, just physical trauma/danger.

Gothann
November 16th, 2004, 07:36 PM
And yet now... McKay will become somewhat more human, less arrogant.

It almost seemed like he changed the instant Brenden died, like as though he became aware that the Wraith can take away everyone he knows and possibly care about, and that he NEEDS to do whatever he can to prevent that.

I liked the emotion. McKay's friendship toward Sheppard is clearly becoming easy to identify.

ShadowMaat
November 16th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Still more wonderful McKay development and the first verifiable sign that he's "changed" since joining the Atlantis crew. Brendan seemed very surprised that McKay was gung-ho to go help Sheppard. Will love to see how the suicide affects McKay. The fact that he didn't mention to Shep HOW Brendan died is very tellling, IMO.

I'm not sure what I think about Brendan, himself, though. The whole "I'm younger and smarter and am gonna outshine you and you're jealous so if I wind up dead it will look suspicious" thing would have worked a lot better as a joke, IMO, but played seriously, it just didn't feel right to me. Maybe if we actually knew something about the character it would have made a difference. But some random twit claiming superiority with us having no proof of it kinda weakens the point for me.

I liked Greg. I'm interested to know how he was "different" than the wraith the Atlantis crew have come to know and love and I really wish they hadn't blown him to tiny tiny bits. Give us some time to actually come to know and understand the wraith a bit. Whatever happened to "know thy enemy"? They wasted Steve when they had him, now they've wasted Greg as well.

Re: Greg and the gun. Did he also learn how to switch off the safety, or are we to expect that a trained military crew flies around with a bucketful of LOADED GUNS that all have the safeties off?

I get the feeling they were trying to do something with Ford and Ford in Charge, but the character is still so anemic and so much screen-time was wasted on McKay and Shep/Greg that I don't really know what (if any) point the writers were trying to make with the Ford storyline, other than him dutifully trudging after Shep at Weir's command.

The Prodigy bugs. What the hell?? They were brought in why?? Either go the extra to pay for NEW CGI bugs (that look unique) or give us some sort of reason for the Prodigy pixies to be in the Pegasus galaxy. As for crushing... maybe Greg was sucking the lifeforce out of them, instead. He IS a different kind of wraith. :P And after 10,000 years he's probably had to learn some new tricks. Or maybe there's more to those bugs than we realize... ;)

kashi
November 16th, 2004, 10:34 PM
I thought that was a mediocre episode for a couple of reasons.

1. It seemed unrealistic to me that sheppard and mackay would allow two scientists to explore part of a wraith ship on their own.

2. Surely they would be aware that hibernating wraith give off no life signs, since in the first episode of atlantis they observed the life signs detector suddenly coming up with lots of signals as the hive ship was waking.

Mr. Seven
November 16th, 2004, 11:53 PM
Loved this episode...but who was the Defiant one?

McKay? Shepperd? The Wraith?

Arguments could be made for all three.

I liked how they had the glow bugs from that SG1 episode (one of the few SG1 eps I have watch).

kashi
November 17th, 2004, 12:59 AM
They were quite different from the bugs in the SG1 episode, as has already beed discussed in this thread.

Major Fischer
November 17th, 2004, 04:33 AM
Re: Greg and the gun. Did he also learn how to switch off the safety, or are we to expect that a trained military crew flies around with a bucketful of LOADED GUNS that all have the safeties off?

Thank you! Was wondering that myself and was given "well, they don't want the safeties on if they need to pull them out in an emergency" or "it could have been knocked off when he dropped it."

It's a weak point to me, and just says that the writers don't handle weapons themselves very often.

ShadowMaat
November 17th, 2004, 04:34 AM
They were quite different from the bugs in the SG1 episode, as has already beed discussed in this thread.
They were small glowy points that flitted around the characters. That's close enough for me.

I agree with you about Shep and McKay leaving the two geeks on their own. And they really should have gone in aware of the fact that hibernating wraith don't show up on the detector. While I get that it was a plot point, Shep should not have needed to tell/remind McKay of that fact.

somme
November 17th, 2004, 04:46 AM
Maybe those bugs were just baby versions of the other ones? :P

I don't think the writers would create something so like the other bugs without them actually being the same ones. Especially seeing as they would know how quickly we lot would pick it apart. :P

Maybe they are baby furlings. :P

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 05:53 AM
Did anyone else notice that this episode was like...the first one where a Wraith refered to the city as Atlantis?

Wass
November 17th, 2004, 05:54 AM
Yeah good point I think they called it the “ocean city” or something like that.

Gothann
November 17th, 2004, 05:55 AM
I'm getting the feeling that the Prodigy bugs have a future purpose in the series, simply to justify what the heck they were doing in the Pegasus galaxy.

april_flower75
November 17th, 2004, 05:56 AM
i thought the glowy bugs were cute.. :p

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 07:09 AM
I'm getting the feeling that the Prodigy bugs have a future purpose in the series, simply to justify what the heck they were doing in the Pegasus galaxy.
:) Silly Gothann! Remember that one guy was like "The atmosphere is highly ionized?" Well I don't have the ep on me right now, but on SG-1, there was a similar situation on the planets.

The only difference, is that the ones on SGA aren't hostile.

ShadowMaat
November 17th, 2004, 07:29 AM
I'd be amazed if the bugs were meant to have any significance beyond being a plot device. :P

chodu82
November 17th, 2004, 07:37 AM
the bugs were diferent.
in sg1 they were bigger and passed through our bodies.
the ones in sga didnt so no future for bugs sorry

chodu82
November 17th, 2004, 07:40 AM
Defiant One spoilers the wraith in this episode said that defeat is impossible since atlantis was the last one who stood. so something happened then that stop the wraith from defeating atlantis, maybe weir came bk from the future??

Liv
November 17th, 2004, 09:09 AM
I loved this episode! Absolutely loved it.

But then, with two of my favorite characters occupying the main story, how could I not? ;)


A tiny list of numerous things that made me laugh and/or smile at the same time:


- Sheppard and McKay. Oh, the joys of the witty banter. It's like they've been going on missions forever.

- "Don't let go of the controls!" Heh. :D

- Their mutual efforts in convincing Weir to let them investigate the Wraith ship.

- "I can't hear you threatening to suck the life out of me 'til you hit the button on the radio."

- "You've got to be kiddin' me!"


And then there were the more serious stuff which I equally enjoyed; particularly JF's and DH's performances throughout.

Hewlett was so great when he was reacting to Gaul having aged and when he heard the gun go off. And all the little reaction shots in between. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: He has such an expressive face.

And Flanigan was just awesome; playing mind games with the Wraith and challenging him the way that he did.

The only thing that I wasn't so fond of in this episode were the Glowy Alien Insects. (I know it's already been brought up, but I want to play too, so... :p) Their remarkable resemblance with the insects from Prodigy kind of annoyed me. Are they supposed to be related to them in some way? Because otherwise they don't make much sense to me, except for them proving very useful in blowing up the almost impossibly hard-to-kill Wraith. ;)

And I still think that Ford is in need of some serious character development. It's gotten better, but nowhere near enough, IMO.

Oh, and McKay to the rescue! That was excellent. :)

ShadowMaat
November 17th, 2004, 09:28 AM
Gentle plea for people to remember that while past eps of Atlantis don't need spoiler warnings in ep discussions, future eps do. If it hasn't aired yet, it's definitely a spoiler and should be tagged as such. Thankies.

And I still say the bugs were stupid. Sorry, and I don't care if there are some nitpicky little differences, they're still too similar for my tastes. What's the point? Sure, some bug designs may be universal, but if you have a chance to make them visibly, obviously different, why not do so?

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 10:06 AM
What was with the Wraith spending all his time killing them, anyway? Is he really that simple?

waz
November 17th, 2004, 12:07 PM
Good episode, but I was REALLY dissapointed we didn't discover more. More tech the good guys get, the better. It'd have been cool if we went above the weapons station and discovered all it needed was a measly ZPM :D . It probably would need about 10............

This really should be revisited at a later date, potenial alpha site.

Another thought, how long would a wraith be able to feed of another wraith? Seeing as though they don't naturally age and the wraith 'suck your years away from you'. That wraith looked normal(the one that had been fed off).

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 12:16 PM
waz, stop expecting SGA to become SG1. It's not going to happen

waz
November 17th, 2004, 12:17 PM
waz, stop expecting SGA to become SG1. It's not going to happen
What exactly do you mean by that?

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 12:20 PM
SGA is it's entirely own show. Having an alpha site would just inch it closer and closer to being like SG1- something that many (including myself) don't want to see happen.

waz
November 17th, 2004, 12:29 PM
I don't know if thier will be but I have been hearing rumors.

Ugly Pig
November 17th, 2004, 12:35 PM
Hey, did anyone notice a new Stargate Atlantis episode aired this week?


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Defiant One'

Now, this was cool. Entertaining from beginning to end, and lots of Wraith action. My only nitpick would have to be that it was said that the Ancients probably made their technology gene dependant after they encountered the Wraith, which doesn't make sense - what then about the outpost on Earth? Hm? Hmmmmm?

Character-wise, this one was big on Sheppard and McKay, while everyone else had very limited screen time. Good action involving Sheppard, and nice character moments for McKay. It's nice to have episodes from time to time that showcase the individual characters. When is Lt. Ford gonna get one? He's the one who needs it the most.

And now, for some Random observations!
- This episode puts to rest any doubts that the Wraith were indeed the enemy who defeated the Ancients.
- Sheppard thinks there's something different about this particular Wraith beside it having recently fed. Wonder if this will be elaborated upon later?
- What about that Ancient defense satelite? Is it still functional?
- The glowy bugs looked like the ones from 'Prodigy', but I guess they're not the same since the Wraith was able to squish them in his hands and all.
- The deaths of the two Red Shirts give the Atlantis Expedition Team Death Count a grand total of 5. Unless I'm forgetting someone.
- Suicide. Yikes.
- Just after I left work today it started snowing. By the time I got home it was winter. I am unhappy now.

Yep, good episode. It will hold me over until the next one, at least. (Hmm... Which episode airs next week?) Party on.

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 12:37 PM
I don't know if thier will be but I have been hearing rumors.
Rumors are never true. :P

waz
November 17th, 2004, 12:51 PM
Spolier about alpha site and ep 120.





After looking at some more reliable sources, ie. Gateworld in ep 120 the alpha site is mentioned

keppiezbt
November 17th, 2004, 01:12 PM
can some one tell me about the ancients weapons platform? details.

waz
November 17th, 2004, 01:16 PM
It was a big black thing about the size of a gou'ld mothership, it was the first line of defense against the wraith attack.....thats about all we know.

aschen
November 17th, 2004, 01:40 PM
Wow...I just read that thing, waz. That's so stupid!

waz
November 17th, 2004, 02:12 PM
I would think they would have to have somehow gathered alot more supplies before they make another site or Atlantis will be greatly weakened by the loss of resources. If they've had contact with Earth then maybe they've brought more people over as there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained.

april_flower75
November 17th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Everyone knows i love McKay, but the joke about "Maybe they're just smelling the girlish fear..", haha it makes me laugh every time. Even if it is at Mckay's expense. :D :(

ShadowMaat
November 17th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Everyone knows i love McKay, but the joke about "Maybe they're just smelling the girlish fear..", haha it makes me laugh every time. Even if it is at Mckay's expense. :D :(
I kept waiting for him to snap that it wasn't girlish fear, it was manly concern for everyone's wellbeing or something like that. ;)

april_flower75
November 17th, 2004, 03:56 PM
I think he was too concerned with the scary bug. :p

Mio
November 17th, 2004, 06:26 PM
Wow. Puddle Jumper Shields. The Wraith darts don't stand a chance anymore :)


Overall, A good episode. Most importantly, we got to see a Glowy Jellyfish of DOOM! used.

kodamawu
November 18th, 2004, 02:52 AM
Wow. Puddle Jumper Shields. The Wraith darts don't stand a chance anymore :)


Overall, A good episode. Most importantly, we got to see a Glowy Jellyfish of DOOM! used.
out of curiosity, how can we be so sure that the shields havent been used before? i mean maybe they used them in some mission we didnt see, or maybe it happened while we were looking inside the jumper, we've just never seen anybody bother to use it on land cus its already cloaked anyway. and you'd think the ancients would've made it a little harder to jury rig a jumper...
and those werent exactly jellyfish...

Mio
November 18th, 2004, 03:30 AM
out of curiosity, how can we be so sure that the shields havent been used before? i mean maybe they used them in some mission we didnt see, or maybe it happened while we were looking inside the jumper, we've just never seen anybody bother to use it on land cus its already cloaked anyway. and you'd think the ancients would've made it a little harder to jury rig a jumper...
and those werent exactly jellyfish...

In The Lost City, Part 2, the Ancient Drone weapons looked like Jellyfish. Since then, they've appeared to change the CG slightly, but they are still Glowy Jellyfish of DOOM.

AsgardCarnage
November 18th, 2004, 04:40 AM
great ep, i loved it as always. i love the way shep goes about his one on one battles, like with kolya from the storm/eye. it seems like he's teasing/provoking them but its really a diverstion. it seems he has a great tacticle mind. oh and a suicide i love the darkness i hope it gets a bit darker, one thing that kind bugged me about sg1 was the lack of darkness.

a few observations about topics in the thread

'Prodigy' bugs: sure its a nit pick but they were a bit similar, any poisible solutions to that problem. they are the say and choice to interact with the enviroemnt (candy bar) or has any one noticed evolution dosn't seem to work its best in the SG universe alot of specis ending up looking the same, maybe its a diffrent evolution that just looks the same. or the producers are cheap, or its a new CG company that didn't know about the prodigy bugs
PJ Sheilds: i think they knew the PJ had sheilds because when shep said "we can get in once u lower the sheilds" mckey wasn't freaking out going "wow we have sheilds?" he was like ok unless it faded to black to fast. also we may have never seen them because they have never been fired at at these sheilds seem to need to be interacted with (hit or shot at) to glow/show up
Greg: Greg was cool, gotta love any villian who goes on about doom and what not, as for him crushing the bugs, i think he might have been eating them, or just swatting them away. he was smart good to see wraith are smart on their own, they know how ancient systems work enought o by-pass the gene thing and turn on the sheild manually. to bad he got killed by the glowing jelly fish of doom but what else could shep have done he might have been killed otherwise. also him being the only wraith to refer to atlantis, maybe the ancients pulled a fast one on the wraith made em think the city was destroyed.
Wraith Grenades: why do the wraith have explosive grenades, they like cooked human now? it was pirtty obvius when shep found em they were grenades i just thought they were gunna be stun grenades like flashbangs or them gou'ld flash balls.

Wass
November 18th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Wraith Grenades: why do the wraith have explosive grenades, they like cooked human now? it was pirtty obvius when shep found em they were grenades i just thought they were gunna be stun grenades like flashbangs or them gou'ld flash balls.
[/list]

You have to remember this was 10, 000 years ago when the wraith were at war with ancients that’s the reason he was carrying grandes. The wraith cargo ship was shot down 10, 000 years ago so Greg has been on that planet for 10, 000 years.

Teal'c
November 18th, 2004, 03:33 PM
The bugs looked like the Prodigy beings because of Mr. Breakspear's VFX department, not PDL.

vfxsoup
November 18th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Wow... I've never been refered to as Mr Breakspear... makes me sound really serious! I'll let you in on a secret...

The bugs are real. Seriously. They live in a jam jar on the MGM lot in Vancouver. The reason they look like the prodigy bugs is quite simple. The contract the prodigy bugs signed with the producers means that whenever we do a show with "glowy yellow bugs things" that we have to use Edna, Kevin and Syd (oh... that's their real names by the way). They control the glowy bug market and there's nothing we can do about it.

We wanted to use the gargantuan pink fluffs, a race of multi-eyed scaled beings from the outskirts of the Pegasus Galaxy that we found on a scene scout last year. They wanted too much money and each bug wanted their own trailer. It just wasn't worth the legal battle in the end and so we opted to use Edna, Kev and Syd. Oh... an interesting note: There are only three bugs and we had to shoot motion control to duplicate them into hundreds.

Alas... all the vfx department had to do in The Defiant One was feed the bugs. The eat a lot on donuts and their favorite color is yellow.

Mark

berserklover
November 18th, 2004, 10:02 PM
We see mc kay getting better, but the wraith is kind of disappointed (the actor who plays it). The episode is definatly good, but not the best.

Elwe Singollo
November 18th, 2004, 10:32 PM
We see mc kay getting better, but the wraith is kind of disappointed (the actor who plays it). The episode is definatly good, but not the best.I don't think this episode was even good, i'm not saying it was horrible, or the worst episode yet (because it obviously wasnt), but i would have taken an on-world SG1 episode over this. Although, i did like Mckay in this episode :)

Wass
November 19th, 2004, 07:16 AM
I think it was the same actor who played Steve.

KayMan2k
November 19th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Did anyone hear/remember what word the Wraith ("Greg") used to refer to the Ancients? I couldnt' quite make it out... and it didn't sound like 'Ancients'.

Shipperahoy
November 19th, 2004, 12:44 PM
Wow... I've never been refered to as Mr Breakspear... makes me sound really serious! I'll let you in on a secret...

The bugs are real. Seriously. They live in a jam jar on the MGM lot in Vancouver. The reason they look like the prodigy bugs is quite simple. The contract the prodigy bugs signed with the producers means that whenever we do a show with "glowy yellow bugs things" that we have to use Edna, Kevin and Syd (oh... that's their real names by the way). They control the glowy bug market and there's nothing we can do about it.

We wanted to use the gargantuan pink fluffs, a race of multi-eyed scaled beings from the outskirts of the Pegasus Galaxy that we found on a scene scout last year. They wanted too much money and each bug wanted their own trailer. It just wasn't worth the legal battle in the end and so we opted to use Edna, Kev and Syd. Oh... an interesting note: There are only three bugs and we had to shoot motion control to duplicate them into hundreds.

Alas... all the vfx department had to do in The Defiant One was feed the bugs. The eat a lot on donuts and their favorite color is yellow.

Mark

OMG! ROFLMAO! Are you sure you do visual effects and aren't actually a writer? ;)

OfF3nSiV3
November 19th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Alas... all the vfx department had to do in The Defiant One was feed the bugs. The eat a lot on donuts and their favorite color is yellow.

Mark

i think i'm gonna enter the visual effects market!

OfF3nSiV3
November 19th, 2004, 02:01 PM
what about the ancient orbital weapon?
it looked pretty nasty! i'm sure mckay just has to plug in a few wires in it to have a new toy to play!

Wass
November 19th, 2004, 02:17 PM
Did anyone hear/remember what word the Wraith ("Greg") used to refer to the Ancients? I couldnt' quite make it out... and it didn't sound like 'Ancients'.

He called them “Atlantains”

waz
November 19th, 2004, 03:09 PM
He called them “Atlantains”
I thought it was just Lanteans.

Lol, for some reason I always seem to be contradicting wass in all the threads.....supose its just his fault for copying my name :D

Gothann
November 19th, 2004, 03:19 PM
No, he says Atlantean.

Good thing I taped the episode. ^_^

aAnubiSs
November 19th, 2004, 03:37 PM
Yup, Atlanteans it is :)

Gothann
November 19th, 2004, 07:27 PM
"This ship... Is Atlantean" - The Wraith (that's actually how he's credited... darn it, I wish Sheppard could have given him a name)

AsgardCarnage
November 20th, 2004, 07:33 PM
yeah that should have been a good running gag, naming all the stray wraith shep find/has words with

Gothann
November 20th, 2004, 07:53 PM
I just felt like watching the Episode again and noticed a cute little Star Trek reference (again, another ST reference... Any more of these and they'll be seriously overdoing it)

"He's in my ship" - Shep
"Who do you think you are; Captain Kirk?" - McKay

Wass
November 21st, 2004, 08:57 AM
I thought it was just Lanteans.

Lol, for some reason I always seem to be contradicting wass in all the threads.....supose its just his fault for copying my name :D

Hey I was here before you :p , is waz short for wesley.

Wass
November 21st, 2004, 09:02 AM
"This ship... Is Atlantean" - The Wraith (that's actually how he's credited... darn it, I wish Sheppard could have given him a name)

I thought we agreed on Greg

Wass
November 21st, 2004, 09:04 AM
No, he says Atlantean.

Good thing I taped the episode. ^_^

So I got the spellings wrong but that's what I meant as well.

Gothann
November 21st, 2004, 10:57 AM
I thought we agreed on Greg
Unofficially, we did (thanks to MartoufMarty) but officially he's The Wraith.

OfF3nSiV3
November 21st, 2004, 04:29 PM
any info on that orbital platform?

Gothann
November 21st, 2004, 07:17 PM
any info on that orbital platform?
Aside from it being as large as a Goa'uld mothership and it being the "LAST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE WRAITH" (NOT the first, geez), nothing right now.

One assumption is that this thing is very likely what shot down that Wraith cargo ship.

Major Tyler
November 21st, 2004, 09:37 PM
I loved this episode! There was a lot of development and depth that the suicide scene added to the feel of the episode. Not too many shows would be so bold; I'm very impressed by the kind of episode this turned out to be.

I missed Ford, but he got to wear the desert MARPAT camo, so that was cool.

Theories:

Bugs: Sheppard himself thought that something other than recent feedings was giving the Wraith (Greg) extra regenerative powers. When you watch Greg interact with the Bugs, he always grabs them with his life-sucking hand. I believe that the Bugs supercharged Greg and allowed him to survive for so long and be much more resiliant than the average Wraith.

Even if the Bugs didn't serve a real purpose, it's reasonable to assume that when we go to alien planets we'll see alien things...get over it.

Scoobing
November 21st, 2004, 11:56 PM
I was thinking that it might be the fact Greg had fed from other Wraith, so he may have taken their strength when he took their life energy.

Wass
November 22nd, 2004, 05:45 AM
I think the theory presented in the actual episode is the best and logical explanation for Greg to survive that many bullets.

Wass
November 22nd, 2004, 05:47 AM
Aside from it being as large as a Goa'uld mothership and it being the "LAST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE WRAITH" (NOT the first, geez), nothing right now.

One assumption is that this thing is very likely what shot down that Wraith cargo ship.

That was pretty obvious but what I don’t understand is why the wraith did not destroy it completely.

veneticuss
November 22nd, 2004, 07:01 AM
I think the theory presented in the actual episode is the best and logical explanation for Greg to survive that many bullets.
what theory?

Wass
November 22nd, 2004, 07:15 AM
Mackay: “Dr Beckett has theorised that the wraiths ability to heal itself is directly proportionate to have recently it has feed.”

Major Tyler
November 22nd, 2004, 08:24 AM
I think the theory presented in the actual episode is the best and logical explanation for Greg to survive that many bullets.I'd agree except for the fact that when McKay presented that theory, Sheppard said that he thought that something else beyond that was going on. I think that "something else" was the Wraith feeding off of the energy bugs.

Wass
November 22nd, 2004, 09:35 AM
It's possible or it was the energy bar :p

OfF3nSiV3
November 22nd, 2004, 10:16 AM
i don't think the wraith was feeding from the bugs, i think they were annoying him

veneticuss
November 22nd, 2004, 11:30 AM
Or it was the wraith he fed off

Wass
November 22nd, 2004, 03:30 PM
The dead wraith looked like he had been there for while.

Mr. Seven
November 23rd, 2004, 12:56 AM
They really need to come back and get some teams exploring that huge weapons satellite and that Wraith ship. That weapons platform could have a slew of cool stuff. I doubt a ZPM, since that is most likely going to be a major arc of some kind due to what it can do for the team.

They should check out that old Wraith ship to try to find the history of the Wraith. Although I don't think that their computer would be accesible after so many years and the constant infighting of the crew.

Oh and those bugs are definetly the same ones from SG-1's Prodigy episode. The comment about the atmosphere's ionization in the atmposphere of the planet(s) is too much to be a coincidence. Plus they look the same unless you have way too much free time on your hands to break down the colors and sizes of them.

Major Tyler
November 24th, 2004, 12:41 AM
This episode illustrates perfectly why SG-teams and SGA teams who carry P90s should also carry 5-7 pistols. P90s use a 5.7 millimeter round, whereas the Berettas they carry are 9 millimeter rounds. If they carried the FN 5-7 pistol, they could use the same ammo from the P90s in the pistol, and vice versa.

Sheppard's P90 got damaged and it was worthless. He had plenty of magazines and plenty of 5.7mm bullets, but they couldn't be used in his Beretta M-9. Plus, 5-7, because of the smaller bullets, have 20 round clips! And they look cool. :D

http://img29.exs.cx/img29/9717/five7.gif (http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/index.htm)

Source: http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/index.htm

Wass
November 24th, 2004, 05:42 AM
Damn you Americans know hell of alot about guns we in UK don't carry guns although it's becoming growing problem where guns are used in crime.

Anyway back to the topic how did shappereds P-90 got damaged I thought he ran out of ammunition.

OfF3nSiV3
November 24th, 2004, 05:49 AM
Anyway back to the topic how did shappereds P-90 got damaged I thought he ran out of ammunition.

i'd love to watch him throwing the gun at the wraith and hitting something sensitive

Wass
November 24th, 2004, 05:57 AM
LOL, now that would be funny I think they need to add a bit of humour into Atlantis.

OfF3nSiV3
November 24th, 2004, 06:14 AM
imagine the gun falling into the wraith's foot and then the wraith jumping in pain, slipping into his long hair, cursing

Major Tyler
November 24th, 2004, 08:57 AM
Damn you Americans know hell of alot about guns we in UK don't carry guns although it's becoming growing problem where guns are used in crime.I don't know a lot about guns because I'm American, I know a lot about guns because I'm interested in military equipment. The vast majority Americans *gasp* don't own guns or have ever fired one. That's just a stereotype (especially perpetuated in Europe).


How did shappereds P-90 got damaged I thought he ran out of ammunition.When the Wraith fired at Sheppard, one of the bullets hit the P90.

Jarnin
December 5th, 2004, 06:01 PM
This episode sort of established the top speed of a puddlejumper in a vaccum, but it's based on alot of assumptions.

IN the show they said that the ancient weapon platform was in the lagrange point on the opposite site of the solar system from the planet Atlantis is located on. They also said that that location was 15 hours away from Atlantis in a Puddlejumper.
Planets that can support life have a habital region, which is roughly 100,000,000 kilometers to 250,000,000 kilometers away from a star like the sun. Earth is at 149.5 billion kilometers from the sun, so we'll estimate the planet Atlantis is on is an even 150 billion kilometers from it's parent star.

The lagrange 3 point is located slightly past the orbit of the planet, on the opposite side of the sun, so roughly 320 billion kilometers away from Atlantis. However, to get there you have to fly around the sun, so we'll say an even 350 billion km from Atlantis.
350 billion km in 15 hours equates to 6481 kilometers per second, or ~2% lightspeed.

Sheppard told McKay that it would take 804 years to come and get him in a puddlejumper if he broke the DHD in "Home". Traveling at 2% the speed of light, they'd travel ~18 lightyears in 804 years.

It's a good thing the PJ can fly through the gate :cool:

Major Tyler
December 5th, 2004, 06:12 PM
I'm impressed! :cool:

Brendan
December 10th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I just felt this episode was filler. That's what some of the more recent episodes of SGA have been. They do nothing to further the story arc and they're just there to help fill the 20 (or 21/22) episode qouta. There was also a lot of unanswered questions:

1. What were those bugs?
2. How did the Wriath ship crash exactly?
3. Is the Wraith ship valuable at all to the SGA team?
4. Are they going to examine the Wraith ship? And get information from it?

I'd have to see it again but I know there was more.

Major Tyler
December 10th, 2004, 09:35 PM
I just felt this episode was filler. That's what some of the more recent episodes of SGA have been. They do nothing to further the story arc and they're just there to help fill the 20 (or 21/22) episode qouta. There was also a lot of unanswered questions:It was mainly a character-developing episode, especially for Rodney.


1. What were those bugs?The bugs were what allowed the Wraith to survive for so long and become so strong. The Wraith "ate" them and that gave him the extra energy boost.

2. How did the Wraith ship crash exactly?The orbital weapons platform shot it down.

3. Is the Wraith ship valuable at all to the SGA team?Yes.

4. Are they going to examine the Wraith ship? And get information from it?Yes.

GatetheWay
December 11th, 2004, 10:10 AM
As soon as they showed Nyan I was very excited (I have been waiting for SG-1 to explain what happened to him) that we were finally seeing what happened to him after 'New Ground' but then they called him by a different name and my hopes were shattered.

As the episode went on I started thinking 'maybe he changed his name to fit in better and got interest in science along the way and volunteered to go to Atlantis because he was exiled from his planet' but when he knew he was going to die and ended up killing himself to make McKay go help Shepard my hopes were shattered again because would he not have confessed he's whole back-ground story to McKay? That would of been better then his pointless speech about how much better he was then McKay.

I think it would of been an interesting twist in the story. I still have a shred of hope that maybe in season two they'll mention he was in fact Nyan.

Lt. Aiden Ford
December 11th, 2004, 10:34 AM
That would of been better then his pointless speech about how much better he was then McKay.That wasn't a speech, it was a joke. Because Brandon was so weak it kinda came out wrong. He and Rodney obviously have history because they feel comfortable joking with each other the way friends do. The "girlish fear" comment was my favorite. :D


I think it would of been an interesting twist in the story. I still have a shred of hope that maybe in season two they'll mention he was in fact Nyan.I think it is extremely unlikely that Dr. Brandon Gaul was, in fact, Nyan from Bedrosia. I certainly hope it wasn't because that would mean Nyan was dead...and fat.

GatetheWay
December 11th, 2004, 10:46 AM
Well, Nyan might as well be dead because when they reuse an actor for a different character on the some-what-same show he had appeared before, then its safe to assume that we will never see Nyan again.

Major Tyler
December 11th, 2004, 11:08 AM
Well, Nyan might as well be dead because when they reuse an actor for a different character on the some-what-same show he had appeared before, then its safe to assume that we will never see Nyan again.I'd rather have a character I like not be dead, even if I haven't seen him for a while. I suppose you want Cassandra dead, too. :P

GatetheWay
December 11th, 2004, 11:39 AM
I really liked Nyan in 'New Groud' I'm just disappionted we will never know what happened to him after he escaped to Earth. It seemed like a promising story arc.

EyeStrain
December 11th, 2004, 11:50 AM
i'm a newbie here :D
i remember the wraith say "I’ve fed upon countless thousands of humans, Atlanteans, even a part of my own crew."
So they feed on other life form or something?

Major Tyler
December 11th, 2004, 11:52 AM
I really liked Nyan in 'New Groud' I'm just disappionted we will never know what happened to him after he escaped to Earth. It seemed like a promising story arc.I agree. I think that there should have been an episode in season six where Nyan goes back to Bedrosia and finds that the Optricans are winning the war. Nyan, with the help of his Terran friends, is able to speak the truth, negotiate an end to the war, and be a hero to his people. It would have been a great episode!

Erik Pasternak
December 12th, 2004, 05:17 PM
I agree. I think that there should have been an episode in season six where Nyan goes back to Bedrosia and finds that the Optricans are winning the war. Nyan, with the help of his Terran friends, is able to speak the truth, negotiate an end to the war, and be a hero to his people. It would have been a great episode!
That echos a lot of what happened to Jonas. Maybe TPTB viewed their character arcs as too similar.

Major Tyler
December 12th, 2004, 05:54 PM
That echos a lot of what happened to Jonas. Maybe TPTB viewed their character arcs as too similar.True, but I think because the war between the Bedrosians and the Optricans was about the Stargate specifically, they could have found a way to meaning fully differentiate the two stories.

Erik Pasternak
December 12th, 2004, 05:56 PM
True, but I think because the war between the Bedrosians and the Optricans was about the Stargate specifically, they could have found a way to meaning fully differentiate the two stories.
True, and hopefully this will be the last off-topic post (:D), but TPTB also view Daniel and Jonas a pretty similar. I think that they both could be regulars on the series myself, but I guess in both cases, it is nothing more than personal opinion.

Ohper
December 13th, 2004, 01:15 PM
Did anyone else think the shield was something the Wraith set up by himself, and that the PJ's don't have shields? That was my immediate first impression.

Major Tyler
December 13th, 2004, 02:21 PM
True, and hopefully this will be the last off-topic post (:D), but TPTB also view Daniel and Jonas a pretty similar. I think that they both could be regulars on the series myself, but I guess in both cases, it is nothing more than personal opinion.I agree completely! I so wish they could have kept those two together. I never thought of Jonas as a Daniel clone, he definately developed his own unique character. I always liked how Jonas was a bit more militarily minded than Daniel. He was like a cool smart guy with a gun!

Okay...back on topic.

Did anyone else think the shield was something the Wraith set up by himself, and that the PJ's don't have shields? That was my immediate first impression.That's what I thought, too. I was afraid to mention it because I didn't want to incur the wrath of the pro-shielders. :P They're almost as rabid as the pro-shippers :eek:...kidding! :D

Paintballman
December 14th, 2004, 03:24 PM
One word...BOOM!

Lt. Aiden Ford
December 14th, 2004, 03:25 PM
One word...BOOM!What?

Paintballman
December 14th, 2004, 04:09 PM
What?

When the wraith was hit by the weapon from the puddle jumper.

CrackedButter
December 17th, 2004, 03:09 PM
This is my first post and I do regret it, I am now going to waste another portion of my life in another forum! :)

Anyway, i'm normally a lurker and I just had to post this because some of you guys have missed out on some things in this episode. I've read every comment as well to make sure.

STAR TREK reference: Sheppard says when cloaking the PJ, "Everybody remember where we parked". I'm not going to tell you which movie its from, you guys should know ;).

With regard to the wraith hotwiring the ship, i got the impression that he knew his way around the technology, having fought a war, you would of course come across their tech and explore it. I felt he knew how the systems worked and thus activated the shield, but since any tech the wraith would discover would be damaged, its reasons for not working (other than thinking, its badly damaged, the lights won't come on) wouldn't be explained until they had an intact peice of technology. In other words, he knew his way around the system but didn't know you needed a gene in order to use it, like flying the ship.

alz0rz
December 17th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Very observant :D Welcome to the forum

I remember that part and actually thought of a movie but didnt I've never watched star trek :o

Blueicus
December 20th, 2004, 11:44 AM
I believe the quote "Remember where we parked" is from Star Trek 4, when they land the Klingon Bird of Prey in the San Francisco park and activate its cloaking device.

CrackedButter
December 20th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Thats something I like about SGA, it quotes othef sci-fi nicely and doesn't take itself seriously.

MadJaffa
December 30th, 2004, 10:32 PM
I just felt like watching the Episode again and noticed a cute little Star Trek reference (again, another ST reference... Any more of these and they'll be seriously overdoing it)

"He's in my ship" - Shep
"Who do you think you are; Captain Kirk?" - McKay

Right after this, Shep notices the ice, because of my tv, I thought it was just some mineral and I thought "Oh god, he's going to make gunpowder, oh wait he already has a gun."

Standback
January 1st, 2005, 11:21 AM
I'm afraid I didn't enjoy this episode much... I'm really not fond of the Wraith, who I think have yet to rise above "Oooooo, we're creepy life-sucking vampires... ooooooo.... life-sucking, y'hear? We're creeeeeepy..." Ahem.

The impression I'm getting of the Wraith so far is horror-movie baddies, whose strength is in their numbers and, well, strength. This is, to me, a poor choice, because it doesn't lend itself well to interesting stories about fighting the Wraith. "What're we up against this episode?" "Well, you know how we fought against the Wraith a few episodes ago? Well, today it's the same thing... but there's more of 'em." Or "Today it's the same thing, but they've got bigger guns." Or whatever. They (IMHO) lack the complexity, the uniqueness, the level of detail, and the depth of character that should be serving as a springboard for original, fascinating and exciting episode plots.

SGA has done a wonderful job in other areas. They've been focusing a great deal on the effect the Wraith have had on other civilizations, which has lots of room for originality and complexity, and also gives a real sense of consequence - each episode is important, because look, what's going on in the main storyline has massive repurcussions on everyone else in the galaxy. What SGA do means something, carries beyond each individual episode. We've also been introduced to the Genii, who have all the complexity, character and deviousness the Wraith lack. SGAs doing very, very well... except with the B-Movie Vampire Army.

"The Defiant One" did a great job with the SGA team. Sheppard's grim determination and resourcefulness are well-done. McKay's neurotic heroism, and Gaul's sacrificial suicide, were excellent. But the Wraith character was still just a flat bogeyman, easily summed up by:

Defiant Cannibal Wraith: You cannot defeat me! I will kill you! You will all be-- GAK!

This is why I found the episode disappointing. The Wraith look like SGA's main baddies, and I'm just waiting for them to actually make them interesting. But "The Defiant One" was a plain horror episode. "Stranded on a desert planet, stalked and hunted by a life-sucking monster who cannot be killed..." I get the feeling that "oooo, creeeeepy"-type horror is all the Wraith are going to be, and we're not gonna see them gaining much character anytime soon. And that, especially when compared to all the great things Atlantis does have to boast, is a cryin' shame.

GatetheWay
January 2nd, 2005, 06:12 PM
I don't know if this was mentioned before but did anyone notice that McKay's jacket was a different color. It was blue and a kind of dark gray instead of his usual blue and little yellowish gray. His pants were also different to match his jacket. Just thought it was interesting. In my opinion I like that color better then his usual. :D

Lt. Aiden Ford
January 2nd, 2005, 06:18 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/beautyofgrey/Stargate/32381567.gifhttp://perso.wanadoo.fr/mg-web/sg_ljicons/atlantis.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/carolynypayne/worm.gif:)

Major Tyler
January 2nd, 2005, 10:19 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/beautyofgrey/Stargate/32381567.gifhttp://perso.wanadoo.fr/mg-web/sg_ljicons/atlantis.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/carolynypayne/worm.gifLOL, I'm stealing that iris one! :P

Carbito
January 4th, 2005, 07:04 AM
Quick question:
That shield that the Wraith activated around the puddle jumper, was that generated from the ship or from some sort of Wraith device he had on him?

aschen
January 4th, 2005, 07:05 AM
My thread was better.

sshspooky
January 4th, 2005, 02:53 PM
i don't think the bugs can be classified as definately different. were they a different size? hard to tell on a small screen, but then all bugs vary slightly in size so this would be no surprise. didn't go through things? they didn't in the SG-1 episode much, and didn't go through people until they were angered. Wraith could just squash them in his hand? well, to me i like the suggestion that the wraith ws able to absorb their energy so they couldn't just go straight through him. could explain why he decided to use up his time squashing them. also they could just bea similar species that have slightly diferent properties. i'd guess they went with the slowy designs as on a tv screen a glowy bug stands out to the viewer, while a small black bug does not.

JackDaniels
January 4th, 2005, 04:02 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. It was a strong follow-up episode to The Eye and had a lot of McKay and Shephard so I'm happy.
Oh bless little Nyan, comes back only to get himself sucked on by a wraith and then shoots himself just to be done. The bit where he shut up because McKay told him too was good, as was the bit where he showed there was obvioulsy a lot of rivalry between the two of them.
The wraith was class, though when Shepard mentioned he thought there was something different about this wraith i thought they may have expanded upon this, as he didn't accept McKay's belief that they regenerate quicker if they've more recently fed.
Those little bugs very similar to those from 'Prodigy' (they obviously knew everyone would make the comparison and its noteable that Peter DeLuise directed both episodes) seemed annoying and pointless at first, but it was great how they were used to get the bad guy, even if they didn't deserve to die in the process.
There was very little from the other main cast members (starting to feel really sorry for Ltnt Ford esp cos he never does anything except get excited about weapons and go on rescue missions and speak to people over the radio) We at least know that Teyla and Dr Weir have big eppys coming up.

All in all a good episode, and showed some good military tactics from John and some clear growth in McKay's character. He wants to fight as well as think (I thunk there's a little Daniel Jackson to him) and i for one would like to see more of that. I also love the banter that they've got going between the two.
My only complaint is i feel Teyla is becoming a little too 'Teal'c for me. Her misunderstandings of what's being said, and ger stoically standing there with her weapon saying not a damn thing at all. There were some way underused characters and some pretty obvious wraith fodder.

Anubis
January 5th, 2005, 12:14 AM
Didn't the orange, glowy bugs look like those we see on SG-1, though I can't remember which episode. ;) I liked how they kept annoying Sheppard when he was fighting the Wraith. :D

Sheppard showed some good military skills there and I'm kinda glad he got shot, just to show that not everyone is perfect. ;) The Wraith are very hard to defeat after a recent feeding -- very. He must of took about 1,000 bullets, a grenade and a few more bullets from pistols too and then finally being destroyed by the Ancient Drone. :)

TheWarrior
January 5th, 2005, 01:56 AM
Quick question:
That shield that the Wraith activated around the puddle jumper, was that generated from the ship or from some sort of Wraith device he had on him?

I thought about that as well - was it a device that was in the Puddle Jumper and the Wraith then put round his wrist or was it a device the Wraith had. Most likely it will be the first idea - it was a device in the Jumper he put on his arm. But then - how do McKay and Sheppard get into the Jumper to go home - as the sheild deactivation is on the wristband that got blown up.

Now the shield might have collapsed when the device was blown up, but still the device that activated the shield was not the same device that the team had to cloack the Jumper.

That was one nitpick I had with the episode as well as McKay running out of Ammo, he should have had another clip when he ran out full stop. He had the clip in his berratta - the spare clip he carries and he was given the clip from the dead scientist, so he should have had another clip to put rounds in the Wraith.

Overall a good episode - shame not much Ford, Weir, Tayla etc.
I didn't think Sheppard would have allowed the scientists to go round on there own even if the ship was deserted.

McKay has deffo changed since he first appeared on our screens in "48 Hours" he has become more rounded as a character and a team player.

Na'onac
January 5th, 2005, 07:34 AM
I loved this episode, I thouight that it was very funny in places and nice to see different angles to Mackay and Sheppard as well as the technical side of the Wraith.

To answer the nit pick of the remote and forcefield around the jumper:

Mackay could probably mess around with his own remote to decloak the ship and change it to disable the force field set up by the wraith. That's my opinion anyway!

Terok
January 5th, 2005, 07:36 AM
A good episode, I enjoyed it. I liked the continued development from previous episodes for Rodney's character, he's becoming more willing to get involved in battle and fight to help and protect his team.

Don't think the episode suffered from the lack of the other main characters, but those characters really do need to be given big storylines to develop in the near future.

One thing though, don't know if it's been covered, but how did the Wraith manage to deactivate the cloak on the puddle jumper when he found it? If he stole a wristband he wouldn't have been able to use it!

TST
January 5th, 2005, 08:28 AM
Good episode, but a few things bothered me;
1) It was too predictable the guys would die. The suicide did something to alleviat that, as it wasn't expected, but it was obvious they would be the ones eaten by "Greg"
2) If the Wraith are so hard to kill, why does everyone repeatedly shoot at the big bits of metal on their chest? You'd think a P-90 clip in the head would do more damage than one having punched through what looks like an inch or so of some sort of body armour. McKay I can forgive, but Sheppard being military should really know better when taking him by surprise.


Now, what interested me:
The shields: I'm inclined to think these were from the jumper itself. These prevented Sheppard from entering the craft, but unless they are one-way (rather than 0-way), they must have activated after the Wraith left. Now, the Wraith could have set them up, but I wonder if they're an automated defence by the puddle jumper? Wraith-DNA detected, subsequent modification to the ship; shield up once Wraith outside the ship to prevent re-entry? We know it must have a DNA-analysation thing, and lifesign-sensors, so this doesn't seem too implausible (to me anyway).

And the glowey bugs; If they were anything more than alien flies used as a plot device for blowing up the Wraith, I'll eat my cat...erm, hat.

Elite Anubis Guard
January 5th, 2005, 09:04 AM
this was an awesome episode, one of my favorite so far, loved this new wriath, shows how much of a punch the things can take.

liked the new wriath equipment, grenade and portable shield and supply ship, loved that mckay finally got himself into a fight, woulda loved him using them as duel weapons. :D

awesome battle scenes and nice new weapons platform!

.:Lemon:.
January 5th, 2005, 10:35 AM
Nice bit of McKay and Sheppard interaction in this episode :) I thought overall it was quite a good ep. The glowing things reminded me of the SG-1 episode 'Prodigy' (I think thats the episode anyway) and it might be interesting to see them in a future episode. Also, I loved the wraith from this episode! He was fantastic, and he had a great walk :D

Ancients Rising
January 5th, 2005, 12:54 PM
Bit of a disappointment for me this ep.

Why?

Because I read ALL the spoilers and the episode thread beforehand. Kinda ruins the whole experience....

Wraith guy was funny :D

Ugly Pig
January 5th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Bit of a disappointment for me this ep.

Why?

Because I read ALL the spoilers and the episode thread beforehand. Kinda ruins the whole experience....
So don't do that! :p

Elite Anubis Guard
January 5th, 2005, 01:23 PM
anyone else notice the star trek references again? particuly the line everyone remember where we parked and then cloaks the ship! :D

GateGipsy
January 7th, 2005, 08:10 AM
I loved this episode. Kudos to PDL who wrote and directed it. For me, this has been the best episode of the season so far. It had tension, drama, a bit of humour and great interaction between the characters.

Plus a real 'they did what!' moment, when Brendon shoots himself. Wow. I really didn't expect that. Of course they were the two who were most likely to die, given that McKay and Shep are main characters. But suicide? It really didn't occur to me. I thought they'd go for the tired old cliche of finding out when all the action is over that the little light creatures could heal and in thanks to Shep for befriending them instead of squishing them like the Wraith did, they'd heal him.

Anyway, I like what they did with that storyline more. Not that it was likeable! Just that it was much better TV - it was unexpected.

And McKay - I love the guy! He just gets more and more wonderful. Very watchable. He's kept me watching the show even when I didn't like most of the episodes. And this ep was a great reward for me!

Crazedwraith
January 9th, 2005, 02:03 PM
Wow, this was a really sad episode. Gol killing himself on his first mission (shades of elliot only without the sacrifice bit) the fact that the scientist's deaths were more or less in vain. Nice Character growth for rodney and nice action with Shep vs wraith. Although i find it hard to beleive those berettas are stored full loaded with a chambered round and the safety off. But was a nice touch with the P90 jamming. Common enough ocurnece for propely millitaries (i would think) but a rarity on TV.

Nice moment with the grenades. But surely thats the oldest trick in the book. and was the red but supposed to be a saftly like the handle of a grenade? meaning it doesn't start counting till you let go?

Matt G
January 14th, 2005, 04:51 PM
OK...please bear in mind that I haven't actually seen this episode. I was in Antigua when it aired in the UK and the digibox went haywire while I was away.

Therefore I'm just relying on transcripts for this ep and Hot Zone - I will manage to catch the eps on screen at some point and will probably make some more commets then.

1. Good work from Sheppard in going one-on-one with the Wraith/Greg.

2. Wasn't sure exactly who this Brendan guy was supposed to be - some guy the McKay mentored back on Earth? Where?

3. Ford seemed to have a decent ep.

4. Good ep overall

aAnubiSs
January 14th, 2005, 04:53 PM
You missed two of the best episodes this season Matt. And Ford didn't have much screen time, 2-3 minutes at most.

Quinn Mallory
January 16th, 2005, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by Carbito
Quick question:
That shield that the Wraith activated around the puddle jumper, was that generated from the ship or from some sort of Wraith device he had on him?

The shield is generated by the puddle jumper. If you watch closely at the end of the episode, I believe Sheppard said that McKay that "you've got to put the ship backtogether, provided that you can disarm the shield".

Overall I thought this was a great episode. I kinda wished that Sheppard made even more use of the Swiss army knife and MacGyver something. Btw, was it duct tape or just grey colored bandage that he used to tied up his wound?

I was disappointed that Gaul decided to kill himself since the only reason that Sheppard and McKay were in harm's way was because of their attempt to save Gaul. I guess the show needed to have some death to reiterate how much danger it is in the stargate universe.

mathwizard
January 16th, 2005, 02:37 AM
But it seems curious why is the shield not being used as defence while in space if it's generated by the jumper. :rolleyes: And while leaving the PJ, I sort of remember that the wraith punch something on his wrist to activate the shield? Or was I mistaken? lol

Crazedwraith
January 16th, 2005, 10:11 AM
Just a thought: when we saw lifeform scanners this episode the wraith dot was the smae colour as the humans, yet in Rising didn't wraiths show up a red dots? What gives?

Quinn Mallory
January 17th, 2005, 05:50 AM
But it seems curious why is the shield not being used as defence while in space if it's generated by the jumper. :rolleyes: And while leaving the PJ, I sort of remember that the wraith punch something on his wrist to activate the shield? Or was I mistaken? lol

So the shield comes with a remote control (I am pretty sure the Wraith controlled the shield with a device on wrist band). As for why the shield is not used in space (has there been any concrete evidence that it wasn't there before?) I can only justify that by either 1) the Atlantis crew hasn't discover it yet (Come on McKay, get your act together!). or 2) this shield is only a weak one to present small object (like a person) from entering and does nothing for space weapons.

Q

Matt G
January 19th, 2005, 02:49 PM
Having now caught this ep on screen:

1. I'd re-evaluate Ford's role as small but crucial(he did play his part in taking out Wraith-with-dreads).

2. Brendan's suicide played out differently to how I imagined.

ShadowMaat
January 28th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Sheppard and McKay have this big conversation about how cold the nights get on the planet. I get that they needed some exposition about the timeframe on rescue, but the coldness never plays a part in the story. Hmph.

IMForeman
January 28th, 2005, 06:42 PM
Watching it on TV here in the US, even though I've seen it already, has allowed me one advantage I previously hadn't had: Closed Captioning. The Wraith and Sheppard both call the Ancient technology "Lantian".

-IMF

Athenaktt
January 28th, 2005, 07:00 PM
Watching it on TV here in the US, even though I've seen it already, has allowed me one advantage I previously hadn't had: Closed Captioning. The Wraith and Sheppard both call the Ancient technology "Lantian".

-IMF
I believe the Closed Captions meant "Atlantean" ...Closed Captions have a tendency to be wrong sometimes. ;)

ShadowMaat
January 28th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Well, listening to Greg say it, it sure sounded like Lantian to me. ;)

Wow, Hewlett's good at emoting. You can really feel his angst and guilt over what happened.

IMForeman
January 28th, 2005, 07:02 PM
I believe the Closed Captions meant "Atlantean" ...Closed Captions have a tendency to be wrong sometimes. ;)

Nope. This has been a point of contention since it's airing in Canada. The Wraith and Sheppard clearly say "Lantian" and now closed captions confirm it. It seems that the Ancients were known in Pegasus as the Lantians.

-IMF

Athenaktt
January 28th, 2005, 07:05 PM
Nope. This has been a point of contention since it's airing in Canada. The Wraith and Sheppard clearly say "Lantian" and now closed captions confirm it. It seems that the Ancients were known in Pegasus as the Lantians.

-IMF
Could be...i guess we'd never know for sure. Unless someone could get a hold of the script.

Major Fischer
January 28th, 2005, 07:05 PM
Nope. This has been a point of contention since it's airing in Canada. The Wraith and Sheppard clearly say "Lantian" and now closed captions confirm it. It seems that the Ancients were known in Pegasus as the Lantians.

-IMF

I don't think that's confirmation enough, closed captions are notoriously inaccurate.

greytop
January 28th, 2005, 07:06 PM
I feel sorry for the glowly bugs. All they wanted was the food. Otherwise it was an okay episode. I did feel for the guy that killed himself. That siuided was go with McKay for a long time.

Jeff O'Connor
January 28th, 2005, 07:21 PM
Beautiful episode. One of the best, thus far. This and last week's, alongside the premiere, have got to be my favorites right now. The suicide was very emotional. The statements to McKay from him, about how he's changed... breathtaking. Just twelve episodes, and so much development... egads, I'm just so happy with how things are going. John's blazing dynamo, Solid Snake style of trickery and gunplay was as fun as ever. The Star Trek jokes -- especially the one from IV with the 'cloak ship, remember where we parked' got me laughing. The whole thing was nice.

MartoufMarty
January 28th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Maybe Greg was speaking some sort of Wraith slang with saying 'Lanteans'.

Maybe he's just lazy...

Said this long-while ago, but I loved this episode. Haven't watched it since I first saw it, but love it still.

Yay McKay! And Greg!

... Poor Greg :(

alz0rz
January 28th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Lanteans not Lantians :)

Daniel's_twin
January 28th, 2005, 07:33 PM
I actually liked this episode better then I liked the Eye. I don't know about the guy shooting himself towards the end, but after thinking about it, in a way it was self-sacrificial. The action as well as the humor was very good. :cool:

Jeff O'Connor
January 28th, 2005, 07:43 PM
I actually liked this episode better then I liked the Eye. I don't know about the guy shooting himself towards the end, but after thinking about it, in a way it was self-sacrificial. The action as well as the humor was very good. :cool:

Yeah... he sort've might well have saved John's life. I think that's quite powerful.

UnderT
January 28th, 2005, 08:45 PM
Yeah, it was good, it wasn't quite as good as the Eye but not many will be. I thoguht it was still good.
Maybe they should tow that Satillite back and put it above Atlantis. ;)

Bobthespirit
January 28th, 2005, 09:13 PM
Pretty so-so episode. You took one look at those two young guys and it was obvious they were the designated redshirts. I think the sequence might have been better if it were a little more tactical and conversational, like The Eye was. I like how Sheppard told the wraithe that their side lost the war, but that was the end of the mind games and the rest was just Sheppard trying harder and harder to blow the thing up but finding that it just regenerates too much.

I also want to know exactly how many wraithe there were at the time of the Atlantian war. 60 hive ships versus a thriving civilization of presumably millions, whose technology 10,000 years ago seems to usually outclass the wraiths? Technology or not that seems like a bit of a mismatch.

keshou
January 28th, 2005, 09:14 PM
I haven't read any of this thread and I'm sure it's all been said.

Nice episode, following a really great episode last week. I'm really loving what they're doing with McKay. And the whole Shep/McKay dynamic is starting to become a highlight of the show.

And Nyan/Gall, whatever your name is. Bless you, I guess everyone saw that coming a mile away but it was still very sad. Mckay's face said it all. :(

The Wraith are still cheesy but this guy was better than most. Although not as good as Steve, of course. ;) Certainly was hard to take down. I like the idea that they get stronger as they feed and I suspect there's going to be more revealed down the road. At least I hope so. These guys were wiping out the Ancients - there HAS to be more. It was way too creepy that he'd been there for thousands of years feeding off the supply ship and his fellow wraiths. Eww.

Didn't see much of Weir, Ford or Teyla this week and didn't actually miss them. It was redshirt week on Atlantis I guess.

I kept thinking the fireflies were going to be more hostile. Obviously I was remembering their previous appearance in Prodigy. ;) Very funny when Shep threw the power bar and they went after it like a dog on a bone. :D

Best line of the episode - appropriately - was McKay's. "What are you, Captain Kirk?" :D

Gabe
January 28th, 2005, 10:08 PM
Sorry Atlantis fans, but this was an unforgivablely bad episode. Wake up, the coffee's done. Have a cup.

I wanted to like it because I adore Peter D., but he dropped the ball writing-wise and set a roomful of people--the gang I watched it with--into Mystery Science Theater 3000 mode.

We gave it a chance and tried to take it seriously, but the first volley of our inserted dialogue came during Weir's scene as she cautions the boys about exploring the old abandoned ship. "Hey--didn't any of you bozos see ALIEN?????"

We stopped snorking and gave it another chance until the 4 guys split up and the discussion was: "Which of the two guest star science geeks will die in the next scene?"

"Both of them," I said. "The wraith will kill one right away and take the other to his lair to snack on later. He'll be in bad shape so McKay will have to look after him."

Danged if it didn't happen just like that. We were so sorry it did.

Our watching party's silence quickly broke down, and we all started cat-calls, hooting, and occasionally screaming in rage at characters for being too stupid to breathe. My reply to the "What would Jack O'Neill do?" query was "He'd shoot Sheppard as a liability to the whole project, then kill the alien and get his people OUT of there."

But no such luck.

Shep blunders on, shooting the Big Bad. (Yo, dude! Ever hear of head shots?)

(Basic strategy hint--wait until the enemy is clear from valuable stuff, THEN shoot him!)

I--who have NO military training, no combat abilities whatever--even *I* know better than to shoot an enemy while he's so close to the freakin puddle-jumper that stray bullets will certainly hit the fragile innards, preventing me from leaving the planet.

But Shep did exactly that.

What he did NOT do as follow-through had us all groaning.

While the wraith was down did Shep rush up--a short jaunt while he's still unwounded--and put a few bullets in the critter's head??? I don't care how fast these things recover from wounds, if his brain is turned to mush by a few P-90 rounds bouncing inside his skull the chances are that he's dead, Jim.

But our hero didn't do this sensible action.

Noooooo-ooooo! He lets it recover to get UP again. For Round Two.

Reality check: When your people are in danger and being killed by a butt-ugly alien elf vampire, your job is to *not* play fair, but kill the dang thing and leave.

We hoped it would not get worse, but it did.

Shep made the SAME FREAKIN' mistake a SECOND time. When the alien grenade stuns the wraith, Shep had several MINUTES to get over there and cut his head off with his K-Bar if necessary.

And this didn't happen, either. We were screaming at him, at the writer, at a production staff that made characters we really want to like into COMPLETE MORONS.

As for the glowy bug things--soon as we saw them, we figured "They're going to save everyone at some crucial moment down the line."

Danged if that didn't happen, too. *groan*

Oh, yeah, sidebar to the B-storyline-- as soon as McKay put the gun in the other geek's hand I knew there would be a suicide before the ep. was over. Not kidding here. I'd not read one word about this show, not read a single spoiler. I just *knew.*

Why is that? 'Cause it's a lousy cliché from the get-go. It would have been more interesting if the character had chosen to live, but the writer took the easy way out. To quote another scriptwriter, "Convenience is the death of any script." (JMS of B-5)

More groaning came from our unhappy watch party when, in the middle of a stand-off with the e-vul space elf, Shep has a snack. You'd think after all that combat and getting shot and bleeding and lying around in the sand and sun for hours on end that he'd want a nice drink of water but nope--he treats himself to a power bar!

He shares it with glowy bug. Awwww, ain't that cute. (Wait--didn't Princess Leia do that sharing thing with an Ewok and made friends, then they helped save the galaxy??)

Glowy space bugs....that look too much like the other ones from that SG-1 episode, Prodigy. By then I wanted a whole horde of them to eat the idiot to the bone like teeny little glowy piranhas. It would have put the audience out of its misery. (By then some of us were begging for sporks so we could gouge our eyes out.)

But nope--Shep does his shtick with the snack bar and the glowy things do their predictable bit of (too-easily) distracting the e-vul alien elf until he's blown up by someone other than the hero himself.

All right, once and for all, the ONLY guy who can save the day with a candy bar is McGyver. The *only* guy----not that idiot Sheppard!

I'm sure I've offended many who are content to go giddy over all the pretty (and except for McKay & the Scottish doc, utterly brainless) characters. (Our discussions in my group are along the lines of "Dear gawd--WHAT will Shep DO when he runs out of hair gel? *gasp*)

I've wanted to like this show, and I've seen each episode, and thus far the series just doesn't live up to its promise. I am angry that it could be better, yet it is not. I would regulate it to the level of a Saturday morning kid show except the kids would be insulted by this product. I wish to heaven that the money wasted in the production of this loser episode alone was in my bank account, so I could retire and put it to better use than the producers of "Atlanta-prise."

As it is, I am p.o.'d that there goes an hour of my life I will never get back again.

Honestly, if it didn't have "Stargate" in the title I would have given up watching it after the pilot. As it is, I've yet to see an episode I'd be willing to give a second viewing. Most of them--like this week's offering--offend my intelligence. My group has referred to it as "Stargate-Lite-- half the plot and none of the character."

Don't bother to write and tell me how wrong I am. All messages will be deleted, unread.

Don't dismiss me as a mere troll. I know what I'm talking about, having made my living for the last 15 years as a print-published writer. I only came to vent so I could sleep tonight. I won't be back to this thread. This episode has wasted enough of my time.

Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

GhostPoet
January 28th, 2005, 11:49 PM
Unlike the overly long-winded negative spew posted above..I thought this episode was VERY enjoyable. Kept my attention the entire time.

Avreana
January 29th, 2005, 12:17 AM
Sorry Atlantis fans, but this was an unforgivablely bad episode. Wake up, the coffee's done. Have a cup.... *snipped very long diatribe*



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/avreana/nopity.gif



Anyway, I think that this episode is one of my favourite of the season. It is definitely the one I have re-watched the most so far. I just loved the character interactions. Plus the excellent mix of action/drama/humor. And it doesn't hurt that it is based around Sheppard and Mckay ;) So all in all, a 5 star episode.

Hyperspace
January 29th, 2005, 01:33 AM
i'm a newbie here :D
i remember the wraith say "I’ve fed upon countless thousands of humans, Atlanteans, even a part of my own crew."
So they feed on other life form or something?

Yes the Wraith need to feed on the life-force of apparently any living organism that their talons are compatible of grasping. Welcome to the board!

As for this episode, I thought it was pretty good, of course I immediately thought, 'Didn't you guys see ALIEN'??? I think that Stargate has a good dose of light humor, both SG-1 and Atlantis, but in recent eps the 'dumbitis' has become a little too much. Having the trio not notice that the one redshirt was not with them for a while, and then leaving them there was pretty dumb, it my opinion. Plus there were the mistakes when Sheppard tried to get back to the jumper.

That said--I still enjoyed this ep, it was fun and entertaining and offered some character development plus much-needed beefing-up of the Wraith threat (to a degree). I am a huge fan of Action Sheppard since 'The Eye' and was glad to see his and McKay's character development continued.

Some questions:

1) What happened to the Ancient weapons platform? Will they revisit it?
2) What is the body count of Atlantis vs. the number total still alive?

I look forward to the next ep! So far, good variety of episodes in a strong Atlantis first season. But we scifi fans have been through a lot of series, and are getting a bit more sophisticated--not all the old tricks will work! Let's see if Atlantis can keep doing it well.

frawgz
January 29th, 2005, 02:02 AM
Does anyone know what kind of sunglasses Sheppard was wearing in this episode?

Hyperspace
January 29th, 2005, 02:06 AM
LOL I liked his sunglasses!

kiyuchan
January 29th, 2005, 05:53 AM
I know what I'm talking about, having made my living for the last 15 years as a print-published writer.

Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

Okay, I'm responding to this even though you "won't be coming back"...
Just because you're print-published doesn't mean that your opinion is suddenly more valuable than the rest of us non-published or non-writers. Personally, I enjoyed the episode, and just because you have superior skills in logical deductions, doesn't mean 99% of the world does.

No, I didn't doubt that McKay(who IS pretty, IMO) and Shep would make it out alive, but I had actually believed that Gaul would have livedas they hadn't been in the habit of killing off secondary characters yet. It also had a the effect of making me sad...a real accomplishment for a throw-off character.

Now, I'm all for you having an opinion and not liking it...but to justify that opinion by saying because of your profession, is an insult to the rest of us--implying that our opinion is somehow less informed.

Also, Season One, here! For the first season of a show, the show has been REMARKABLY good. Does anyone remember SG-1's first season *coughBrocaDividecough*...or even Star Trek:TNG's. Both absolutely wonderful shows, but they DID get off to a rocky start. The first season is where the show figures out its direction and, while I love it to death, I know Atlantis is still doing that...hence the change in casting/casting precedence next season... ;_; I'll miss you, RSF, even though your character has had NO development.

That said, and I might have said it earlier, I ADORE this episode...it's easily in my top three faves of the season(all 19 eps I've seen). I thought the interaction was great between Shep and McKay, and McKay and Gaul. I liked that they didn't make all the right choices--they're still learning and that makes them more real to me than if they always did all the right things.

I liked Gaul's acknowlegement of Rodney's development as a character...too often those things go ignored and it was nice for someone to say something. And I liked that Shep was fighting the Wraith with a KNIFE. :D Also, DH has the most wonderfully expressive face I've seen on an actor in a long time. You can see the shock/guilt/sadness when Gaul offs himself and then later when he tells Shep about it. Great stuff.

ShadowMaat
January 29th, 2005, 06:11 AM
Okay, I'm responding to this even though you "won't be coming back"...
Just because you're print-published doesn't mean that your opinion is suddenly more valuable than the rest of us non-published or non-writers. Personally, I enjoyed the episode, and just because you have superior skills in logical deductions, doesn't mean 99% of the world does.
Is that what was in that long, pedantic diatribe? I only got far enough in to figure out he didn't like the ep and then I stopped reading. ;) Sorry, but I've never cared for people like Kavanagh.

I thought the ep was so-so, myself. I liked it a bit better on the second viewing, but I still thought there was an over-all weakness to it. However, McKay's struggle and the plight of Gall were wonderful things to watch and THAT is mostly why I bothered with this second viewing.

Of course, that's just MY opinion and I don't have enough of an ego to say that my opinion is more valid than anyone else's. ;)

Also, if Gabe was talking about going off to watch Prometheus Unbound and considering THAT to be a fantastic ep well worthy of it's fantastic characters... I think I'll have to have a fit of the giggles. ;) Sorry, but HA! Defiant One may not be the best ep, ever, but I'd pick it over PU any day. :P

Of course, again, that's just my poor, uninformed, insignificant little opinion. :D

kiyuchan
January 29th, 2005, 06:20 AM
Also, if Gabe was talking about going off to watch Prometheus Unbound and considering THAT to be a fantastic ep well worthy of it's fantastic characters... I think I'll have to have a fit of the giggles. ;) Sorry, but HA! Defiant One may not be the best ep, ever, but I'd pick it over PU any day. :p

Haha. :D

I enjoyed "PU", myself. But I sometimes like silly things. And I DO understand why other people didn't like it. :) But, yeah. It's still just my opinion, and that's fine. I seem to be in the minority on that one. Oh, well. :)

Defiant One WAS still a much better ep, but then I've been enjoying Atlantis more than SG-1 for most of the season. :( I think the next few eps of SG-1 should pick up my opinion a bit, though. *crosses fingers*

Merlin7
January 29th, 2005, 06:45 AM
I love this ep. Course..I adore Shep Whumping so that just made it right there for me.

But starting with the snark in the PJ in the beginning. The McShep stuff is alway fabulous. JF and DH play off each other so beautifully. And I love watching Shep's face. JF often times doesn't have dialogue in scenes/moments but everything Shep is feeling is there to be seen. IT's wonderful.

Shep and Rodney are two little kids. Mama Weir shook her head at her boys. Heeee

The thing I love about this show is that NO ONE is perfect. NO ONE. They all make mistakes and have to live with them. Look at Shep. He woke the Wraith. Didn't mean too, had no clue it would happen but HE has to live with that. But watching him do so is wonderful. Watching all of them learn from their mistakes and go on and make more. That's what's so great about this show.

I think Shep was right about the Wraith. It wasn't just his having fed recently that made him so unbeatable. Yikes. Made them scarier.

He was a smart Wraith too. He figured out how to find the ship even cloaked. Figured out the remote. Figured out how to hot wire the shield into place with none of the GENIUS scientists from Atlantis did. And you KNOW they have studied the PJ's. He would have gotten that signal out if Shep hadn't gone after him.

I love the TEAM work feeling involved. Rodney wanted to help Shep. I like his fear. Is Shep can't defeat the Wraith...they're screwed. And Shep couldn't...so EEEEK!

But that's where the TEAM feeling comes in. I like that Shep isn't the SAVE THE DAY Hero. Love that. He kept the Wraith distracted. Then Rodney showed up and helped for a few more minutes. Then the calvary showed up. THAT's WHAT it's all about.

Loved the exchanges between Shep and the Wraith. And Shep's disbelief when it got back up after being blown up the first time. LOL

Loved the ending too. You could see how both Shep and Rodney felt about Gaul dying. Then Shep did the right thing. They had a long trip home. They couldn't do anything about what happened to Gaul in that moment and both of them were dead on their feet, especially Shep. So he moved past it for now and they headed home. Once home they could deal with the aftermath.

Great ep.

impulsivelad
January 29th, 2005, 06:51 AM
Yeah, I noticed all the mistakes with how Sheppard handled the Wraith too. But other than that I liked it a lot. All the Star Trek jokes really made me smile and Shep in his Top Gun glasses was just unbearably cool. It also didn't hurt that it featured the two best characters on the show and one particularly cool Wraith. I would’ve like to have seen some Alien or Predator puns, cause they would’ve been more appropriate to the episode. I think the good bits out weigh the bad ones.

Sue_Jackson
January 29th, 2005, 08:20 AM
S P O I L E R S P A C E
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Hey....I finally know what happened to Nyan (Scientist - "New Ground"/S3/SG1)! :) They changed his name to Brendan Gaul, and sent him to Atlantis. :) I'm telling you it was him. :D

I liked this episode a lot. I think this my favorite SGA episode so far. I like the interaction with Sheppard, McKay, and they other scientists (Gaul & Abrams). The two geeky scientist (I mean, Daniel was never THIS geeky) were really funny. And, McKay was annoying as usual, but I think I'm getting use to it. I especially love how Sheppard and McKay interact with each other. I liked how they played off each other. Sheppard was hot as always. He is really good at what he does. I like how this episode shows off his survival skills. I thought it was cute with Sheppard and those lightning bugs, and how they kept coming back for his energy bar. :D Oh...and the Wraith was cool. Mean and nasty, but cool. :cool:

But, those poor scientists (Gaul and Abrams). It was painful, and heartbreaking to watch Gaul dying. That scene really brought tears to my eyes. Then, cried when Gaul shot himself. :( It was so sad.

This was an excellent episode with an awesome performance by Joe Flanigan, Richard Cox, and David Hewlet. :cool:

Vapor
January 29th, 2005, 09:56 AM
Ah, this is much better. For some reason, I was really in a hurry to get past the Storm/Eye 2-parter thing and move on to new stories. I don't know what it was about it, but I just was ready to get on with it. And "The Defiant One" turned out to be a pretty good first ep out.

So now it's established that we have this Ancient defense sattelite thingy, but I guess it's not operational or something?? I dunno, but it's an interesting idea that I'm sure I'll be seeing explored more in later episodes.

Somehow, this ep plays much better with me on the second viewing. Once I knew what was going to happen to the characters, I found myself paying a lot more attention to everything being said between them and what their feelings and thougts were before it really starts to hit the fan.

The best part of the ep for me had little to do with the Wraith or the ships or anything- it was the interplay between McKay and Gall (sp???), who I remember from that one SG-1 ep, "New Ground"... I think. Anyway, this pretty much made the ep worth it for me.

FINALLY someone aknowledges on-screen that McKay has grown as a character since his first days in Atlantis. Instead of thinking just of himself, or... something else, he spends half the time itching to run out and help Sheppard fight the Wraith. At least now those that complain about lack of character development have slightly less to complain about.

And speaking of that Wraith, he's probably the coolest-looking one I've seen so far. And he bares a striking resemblance to the one they had imprisoned in Atlantis, Steve. I wonder if they got the same actor to play this one too- that would be awesome. (*looks around to check*)

There were a few stray moments that felt slightly off or deserved some kind of indifferent mention, so I'll just stick them all in this paragraph. First the scene with Ford. I'm sorry, but he looked like a cartoon during his brief conversation with Weir. He just did. Second, the Wraith grenade-thingy. I think it would've been more appropriate for it to have released some kind of explosion of energy, rather than just blow up like a normal bomb. A stun grenade would've felt more appropriate. Third, that god-awful make-up used for Gall. I mean, I get that they're on a budget and all, but... wow. And fourth, the sound effect used when the Puddlejumper fired at the Wraith and it blew up. I dunno what the deal is, but they need to add some extra oomph to those punctuating moments. We had the same problem last week with the impact-sounds for the fight with Teyla and Sora. Sucked me right out of it.

The most shocking scene, which I did not see coming at all, was of course the scene in which Gall takes his own life. That just completely came out of nowhere. I expected that he would just talk McKay into leaving without him and then, when they returned, he'd already be dead... like, naturally. This way is much more effective, as it forces David Hewlett to react as McKay to something that he's surely never witnessed before. I'd like to see something of him dealing with this situation later on, but... I ain't holdin' my breath.

So, in closing, I think this ep was good. Not great. But good. I give it a B-.

Lugal
January 29th, 2005, 10:34 AM
I thought this ep was only a so-so ep. Last week we saw Sheppard outwit and defeat Kolya, one of the Genii's apparently top commando, yet this week he was very uncautious when dealing with the wraith. It may have worked better if it had aired earlier in the season.

The other guys were obviously redshirts, although Gaul's plight was interesting. I thought it would have been better if he survived, and they had an Atlantis team member who had been through a Wraith feeding.

The best part about this one was McKay, and we got to see a lot more development of his character.

Athenaktt
January 29th, 2005, 10:53 AM
Sorry Atlantis fans, but this was an unforgivablely bad episode. Wake up, the coffee's done. Have a cup.

<snippy>

Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

I would argue you point by point, but I see no point since you don't plan on returning to this thread.

But Believe you are in the minority in this opion, which is your right.

As for "Well-done" Sg-1 episodes...lately...I'd beg to differ, but that is my opinion.

Athenaktt
January 29th, 2005, 10:59 AM
Some questions:

1) What happened to the Ancient weapons platform? Will they revisit it?


As for the ancient weapons platform It comes into play in first part of "The Siege" So for once we get to see the the awesome power of this weapon action.

Daniel's Sister
January 29th, 2005, 11:51 AM
I think that this ep was good because it had the right amount of funny in it, like with the little bugs, and, personally the part where Sheppard said: 'you've got to be kidding me!' I kinda think that was funny. (i have a weird sence of humer).
So that ep was really,really good. Not as good as 'The Eye' but still very good. ;)

GatetheWay
January 29th, 2005, 12:22 PM
I really think you guys should give Shep and McKay a brake. That ship did crash there 10,000 years ago. The Egyptian pryamids are only three or four thousand years old. Like McKay said it was roughly the dawn of human civilization. By comprehending how much time that is it is surprising there was anything left of the ship let alone a live wrath. True they are in an alien enviroment and maybe should of expected the unexpected but it is understandable why they made the mistakes they did.

As for me I liked this ep. alot. I'm a big McKay fan so it was great to see some more growth of his character.

Zelazny
January 29th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Sorry Atlantis fans, but this was an unforgivablely bad episode. Wake up, the coffee's done. Have a cup.

...

My reply to the "What would Jack O'Neill do?" query was "He'd shoot Sheppard as a liability to the whole project, then kill the alien and get his people OUT of there."

But no such luck.

Shep blunders on, shooting the Big Bad. (Yo, dude! Ever hear of head shots?)

(Basic strategy hint--wait until the enemy is clear from valuable stuff, THEN shoot him!)

I--who have NO military training, no combat abilities whatever--even *I* know better than to shoot an enemy while he's so close to the freakin puddle-jumper that stray bullets will certainly hit the fragile innards, preventing me from leaving the planet.

But Shep did exactly that.

What he did NOT do as follow-through had us all groaning.

While the wraith was down did Shep rush up--a short jaunt while he's still unwounded--and put a few bullets in the critter's head??? I don't care how fast these things recover from wounds, if his brain is turned to mush by a few P-90 rounds bouncing inside his skull the chances are that he's dead, Jim.

But our hero didn't do this sensible action.

Noooooo-ooooo! He lets it recover to get UP again. For Round Two.

Reality check: When your people are in danger and being killed by a butt-ugly alien elf vampire, your job is to *not* play fair, but kill the dang thing and leave.

We hoped it would not get worse, but it did.

Shep made the SAME FREAKIN' mistake a SECOND time. When the alien grenade stuns the wraith, Shep had several MINUTES to get over there and cut his head off with his K-Bar if necessary.

And this didn't happen, either. We were screaming at him, at the writer, at a production staff that made characters we really want to like into COMPLETE MORONS.

...

More groaning came from our unhappy watch party when, in the middle of a stand-off with the e-vul space elf, Shep has a snack. You'd think after all that combat and getting shot and bleeding and lying around in the sand and sun for hours on end that he'd want a nice drink of water but nope--he treats himself to a power bar!

...

Glowy space bugs....that look too much like the other ones from that SG-1 episode, Prodigy. By then I wanted a whole horde of them to eat the idiot to the bone like teeny little glowy piranhas. It would have put the audience out of its misery. (By then some of us were begging for sporks so we could gouge our eyes out.)

But nope--Shep does his shtick with the snack bar and the glowy things do their predictable bit of (too-easily) distracting the e-vul alien elf until he's blown up by someone other than the hero himself.

All right, once and for all, the ONLY guy who can save the day with a candy bar is McGyver. The *only* guy----not that idiot Sheppard!

I'm sure I've offended many who are content to go giddy over all the pretty (and except for McKay & the Scottish doc, utterly brainless) characters. (Our discussions in my group are along the lines of "Dear gawd--WHAT will Shep DO when he runs out of hair gel? *gasp*)

I've wanted to like this show, and I've seen each episode, and thus far the series just doesn't live up to its promise. I am angry that it could be better, yet it is not. I would regulate it to the level of a Saturday morning kid show except the kids would be insulted by this product. I wish to heaven that the money wasted in the production of this loser episode alone was in my bank account, so I could retire and put it to better use than the producers of "Atlanta-prise."

As it is, I am p.o.'d that there goes an hour of my life I will never get back again.

Honestly, if it didn't have "Stargate" in the title I would have given up watching it after the pilot. As it is, I've yet to see an episode I'd be willing to give a second viewing. Most of them--like this week's offering--offend my intelligence. My group has referred to it as "Stargate-Lite-- half the plot and none of the character."

Don't bother to write and tell me how wrong I am. All messages will be deleted, unread.

Don't dismiss me as a mere troll. I know what I'm talking about, having made my living for the last 15 years as a print-published writer. I only came to vent so I could sleep tonight. I won't be back to this thread. This episode has wasted enough of my time.

Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

You post comments like that and refuse to return or acknowledge the response it generates. How utterly closed minded and ignorant. But then, we all know you are going to read the responses to your diatribe. It is human nature to be curious.

What I gathered is that you have a supreme hatred of Sheppard. Well, those are your feelings. Fine, but your reasons are stupid. By pointing out how he should just shoot it in the head to kill it and then praise SG-1 on it's superior storylines is contradictive. How many head shots do you even see on a TV series? You know, if SG-1 did a bunch of head shots, a lot of their problems would have been sovled also. The symbiote is in the head/neck region afterall. It's a poor comparison, I admit, since Goa'ulds are easier to kill than Wraiths, but it's still an argument to your "obvious" head shot Wraith solver.

About Sheppard approaching the Wraith slowly after shooting it, I see nothing wrong with it. I can't think of any instance in which a character in either SG-1 or Atlantis, or other series, rushed up to a downed enemy. Are you stupid? You proceed with caution. O'Neill does it. Teal'c does it. Carter does it. Hell, even Daniel does it. If Sheppard had rushed up to that Wraith after he shot it that first time, he probably would have gotten a bullet in the face instead of a grazed arm.

As for Sheppard having a snack in his battle with the Wraith, it took them 15 hrs to get to that satelite. Sheppard probably didn't eat much, if anything, in that time. He WAS schooling a driver's ed class. :D And those ARE energy bars. He probably needed a boost. Maybe it helped him think. Maybe it helped the shock of being shot and losing blood. Maybe he was just starving. :P

Now about the glowy bugs. I liked them. I believe they are the same kind of bugs as in Prodigy, or maybe a distant relative. At any rate, I liked the glowy bugs. It showed some strange kind of continuity.

And as others have said in response to your comments, this IS the first season. Not everything is going to work right away. It's when the second season doesn't accomplish much more than the first that you start worrying.

I liked The Defiant One. It's one of my favorite episodes. I look forward to the next episode.

Hyperspace
January 29th, 2005, 02:07 PM
I think so far there has been quite nice a variety of eps in Atlantis' first season, and this one is included!

Buzz Lightyear
January 29th, 2005, 03:52 PM
As it is, I am p.o.'d that there goes an hour of my life I will never get back again.

Gee, I was gonna say there goes a couple minutes of my life from reading this post that I will never get back. :rolleyes:


Don't bother to write and tell me how wrong I am. All messages will be deleted, unread.

Don't dismiss me as a mere troll. I know what I'm talking about, having made my living for the last 15 years as a print-published writer. I only came to vent so I could sleep tonight. I won't be back to this thread. This episode has wasted enough of my time.

Of course you're always right. I'm sure your mommy has told you so all your life. ;)


Now I'm going to watch a well-done Stargate SG-1 episode that has characters behaving and reacting as the intelligent people I've come to love, cheer for, and respect.

Oh, you mean like Gemini (SG-1 8x11) and Prometheus Unbound (SG-1 8x12)? :D

Athenaktt
January 29th, 2005, 05:40 PM
Gee, I was gonna say there goes a couple minutes of my life from reading this post that I will never get back. :rolleyes:

I was thinking the exactly same thing!




Of course you're always right. I'm sure your mommy has told you so all your life. ;)

ROTFLMAO



Oh, you mean like Gemini (SG-1 8x11) and Prometheus Unbound (SG-1 8x12)? :D

You were brave enough to named the episodes...while I could not. >_<

Blue Banrigh
January 29th, 2005, 07:48 PM
Was the fourth guy in Ford's team Chris Judge's stand-in aka. Grell the Robot?

impulsivelad
January 30th, 2005, 07:43 AM
I know this has been talked about to death but I also heard "Lantean" which I like a lot and makes perfect sense too. Their language is a proto-Latin, right, and Lantean and Latin seem to have the same root word which denotes a point of origin. So it'd be cool if Atlantian is a corruption (over time) of the name Lantean.

Buzz Lightyear
January 30th, 2005, 09:41 AM
I know this has been talked about to death but I also heard "Lantean" which I like a lot and makes perfect sense too. Their language is a proto-Latin, right, and Lantean and Latin seem to have the same root word which denotes a point of origin. So it'd be cool if Atlantian is a corruption (over time) of the name Lantean.

Seems more likely to be the other way around. "Atlantean" --> "Lantean"

derrickh
January 30th, 2005, 09:03 PM
If you step back a couple of steps and take a look, Sheppard is a villian.

The latest case in point is that he killed off a bunch of those glowing beings while killing the Wraith. Those were intelligent life forms. Maybe they weren't as evolved as humans maybe they were, we don't know. Let's say they were on the intelligence level of something like dogs. What Sheppard did was the same as sticking a milkbone in the pants of a bad guy, sending a few dozen puppies after it to 'distract' the bad guy and then blew them all up. They just wanted something to eat and he killed them. That's not the actions of a nice guy, no matter what the situation.

That brings Shep's kill count up to what...over 100 dead in 2 episodes?

D

ShadowMaat
January 30th, 2005, 09:12 PM
Prove the intelligence level of the bugs.

It doesn't take intelligence to follow a food source. Yes, Bug 1 went back and got all his little bug friends. So what? Bees do something very similar, I think. Or possibly ants. Definitely creatures less intelligent than dogs, though. And lets face it, dogs would eat all the food themselves and screw any doggy pals that might be nearby. ;)

You seem to be rather determined to paint Shep as a bad guy, though, and I doubt that anything ANYONE says will convince you otherwise, so hey, attack Shep all you want. I'll just politely disagree. :)

impulsivelad
January 30th, 2005, 09:22 PM
I think calling Sheppard a bad guy isn't fair. He's a soldier and he kills (a lot), but that's his job. If he didn't kill anyone (or got shot himself every once in a while) it wouldn't be believable. What I want to know is why we’re so intent (and I do it myself) on keeping count of all the people Sheppard has killed? Is it just that we like the character so much that we’re taken aback by his killing?

Buzz Lightyear
January 30th, 2005, 09:26 PM
If you step back a couple of steps and take a look, Sheppard is a villian.

The latest case in point is that he killed off a bunch of those glowing beings while killing the Wraith. Those were intelligent life forms. Maybe they weren't as evolved as humans maybe they were, we don't know. Let's say they were on the intelligence level of something like dogs. What Sheppard did was the same as sticking a milkbone in the pants of a bad guy, sending a few dozen puppies after it to 'distract' the bad guy and then blew them all up. They just wanted something to eat and he killed them. That's not the actions of a nice guy, no matter what the situation.

That brings Shep's kill count up to what...over 100 dead in 2 episodes?

D


Hmm, and if you had to sacrifice a flock of seagulls in order to save your child, a co-worker, or even a total stranger you just met, would you?

A more difficult dilemma might arise if it wasn't a flock of seagulls but your family pet instead.

ShadowMaat
January 30th, 2005, 09:29 PM
What I want to know is why we’re so intent (and I do it myself) on keeping count of all the people Sheppard has killed? Is it just that we like the character so much that we’re taken aback by his killing?
Speaking for myself, I haven't been keeping track. ;) And not just because I suck at numbers. hehe. As you said, Shep is just doing his job. He takes whatever steps are necessary to protect his people. Does he cross the line? Maybe sometimes. But he'd be less interesting if he didn't. He'd be less human.

Buzz Lightyear
January 30th, 2005, 09:39 PM
Speaking for myself, I haven't been keeping track. ;) And not just because I suck at numbers. hehe. As you said, Shep is just doing his job. He takes whatever steps are necessary to protect his people. Does he cross the line? Maybe sometimes. But he'd be less interesting if he didn't. He'd be less human.

This issue often recurs in society wherein some of the more pacifist segments frequently voice disapproval of the military, yet are quite relieved such aggressive elements exist in our nations when global conflicts erupt and threaten our freedom and security.

derrickh
January 30th, 2005, 10:26 PM
The closest alien we've seen to the glow bugs are the ones from SG-1. They're probaly a little different from each other, but as they're portrayed, there's more than a passing resemblance. Let's say the 2 lifeforms are distant cousins. Now, it was establishind in SG-1 that the glow bugs are intelligent and work in groups. It was also established that the glow bugs don't like to be held captive and will attack out of revenge. This would lead you to the conclusion that the glow bugs are at least a little bit 'sentient' ..maybe they're dumber, maybe they're smarter. But they're still intelligent beings.

They seemed friendly enough. Shepard even talked to one in a friendly manner. It's doubtful he would have talked to an ant or a gnat in the same way, so it looks like Shepard acknowledged that the glow bug had a 'some' sort of intelligence.

Then he lured dozens of them to their deaths. Without blinking an eye.

So he's a soldier. Does that give him carte blanche to massacre friendly aliens whenever he's in a bad situation? Sooner or later Weir is gonna have to explain to some alien leader 'Sorry we killed 30 of your people, but you see, we had a guy fighting a single wraith and he would've had to hold out an extra 60 seconds for backup to arrive. I'm sure you understand that 1 of our guys is worth more than 30 of your people. Did I mention that he's also the one that woke up the Wraith in the first place? No?.okay good.'

D

Zelazny
January 30th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Hmm, and if you had to sacrifice a flock of seagulls in order to save your child, a co-worker, or even a total stranger you just met, would you?

A more difficult dilemma might arise if it wasn't a flock of seagulls but your family pet instead.

I must say, very well said.

I myself felt bad for the bugs when they were killed with the Wraith, but understood why Sheppard sacrificed them. He is military and it was what he had to do to save McKay, Gaul(since he didn't know of his death), and himself.

As for Sheppard's killing, the events of the Eye were in defense of Atlantis and of his people who were held captive. And, if Sheppard had had a nice ZAT gun, he would've used that. Although, that does spring to mind why he didn't get himself a Wraith stunner to use... And why didn't the Atlantis team bring any ZATs or Staff Weapons with them to Atlantis? Is it because they didn't want to chance what Atlantis or people they may have encountered would have done at the presense of Goa'uld Tech? Ancient devices did have either no or bad reactions to Goa'uld stuff on SG-1...

Zelazny
January 30th, 2005, 11:05 PM
The closest alien we've seen to the glow bugs are the ones from SG-1. They're probaly a little different from each other, but as they're portrayed, there's more than a passing resemblance. Let's say the 2 lifeforms are distant cousins. Now, it was establishind in SG-1 that the glow bugs are intelligent and work in groups. It was also established that the glow bugs don't like to be held captive and will attack out of revenge. This would lead you to the conclusion that the glow bugs are at least a little bit 'sentient' ..maybe they're dumber, maybe they're smarter. But they're still intelligent beings.

They seemed friendly enough. Shepard even talked to one in a friendly manner. It's doubtful he would have talked to an ant or a gnat in the same way, so it looks like Shepard acknowledged that the glow bug had a 'some' sort of intelligence.

Then he lured dozens of them to their deaths. Without blinking an eye.

So he's a soldier. Does that give him carte blanche to massacre friendly aliens whenever he's in a bad situation? Sooner or later Weir is gonna have to explain to some alien leader 'Sorry we killed 30 of your people, but you see, we had a guy fighting a single wraith and he would've had to hold out an extra 60 seconds for backup to arrive. I'm sure you understand that 1 of our guys is worth more than 30 of your people. Did I mention that he's also the one that woke up the Wraith in the first place? No?.okay good.'

D


Okay. You don't like Sheppard. I like Sheppard. We agree to disagree on that.

I thought there could be a relation to the Prodigy bugs also, but we are assuming this. SG-1 didn't study those bugs near long enough to measure the extent of their intelligence. You know, a bee gets ticked off if you harass it, too. You mess with one or some bees, and you could be on the receiving end of a bunch of them soon(killer bees). So you could say those glow bugs had the intelligence of bees. Would you sacrifice a handfull of bees to save your friend?

Also, Ford was close enough to see lifesigns on the planet and he told Sheppard of this. The Wraith was closing in on McKay and McKay was out of ammo. Ford couldn't fire on the Wraith until he knew which lifesign was the Wraith. Sheppard knew this. He remembered the very strong lifesign those glowing energy bugs emitted and how they would follow his food. He made the decision and attacked the Wraith, stopping its advance on McKay and planting the energy bar. The bugs made the Wraith's lifesign greater than McKay's and Sheppard's. Sheppard told Ford to shoot the largest lifesign. Even then, Sheppard and McKay could be too close or the beam could be slightly off.

Either way, that was a decision Sheppard made in the situation he was in. Put yourself in his shoes and see what you would have done. McKay might not have had "60 seconds", you don't know how far out Ford and the jumper was yet. He was within range to pick up lifesigns and fire, that's all. Actually, here is a bit of dialog immediately after the Wraith blowing up. SPOILERS BELOW











Ford: Sir, this is Ford. The target is gone.

Sheppard: Well now, it's about damn time.

Teyla: We got here as soon as we could Major.

Sheppard: That's not what I mean. Thanks.

Ford: You're welcome sir. We'll be there in just a few minutes.



Did you catch that? "We'll be there in just a few minutes." I would say McKay and Sheppard had around five minutes or maybe even longer when Ford told Sheppard he was picking up their lifesigns. I highly doubt McKay and Sheppard could have survived against the Wraith for five minutes with no weapons to defend themselves. Therefore, I agree with Sheppard's decision to sacrifice the bugs.

Oh, and yeah, Sheppard caused the Wraith to wake. He didn't know that would happen. Do you really think the Keeper would have left all those Wraiths to sleep at the knowledge of Earth and the billions of people they could feed off of? Doubt it.

LoneStar1836
January 31st, 2005, 12:19 AM
Hmm, and if you had to sacrifice a flock of seagulls in order to save your child, a co-worker, or even a total stranger you just met, would you?
Well I would if I had to, but I did like their song even though it was a one-hit wonder. ;)

Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode. It was interesting and entertaining which is more than I can say for the blah that was SG-1’s episode Friday night. It is easily one of my favorites of the season so far.

Honestly, they couldn’t go wrong for me with my two favorite characters as the center of the episode. *knock on wood* (since that didn’t hold true for the ep of SG-1.) Very much enjoyed JF and DH's performances in this one. I could feel the emotion. Admittedly, Shep is my favorite, and any chance to get to see him in action is always a plus for me. And not just for purely shallow reasons. ;) The banter between he and McKay was great as always. The entire PJ sequence at the top of the episode was my favorite. :D

I enjoyed the character development for Rodney. His character has really advanced as the season has progressed. i.e. he’s left behind most of the doom and gloom attitude that I thought was prevalent at the start of the season. Thankfully, he’s also a good shot since Sheppard seemed to be in his line of fire there at the end. :D DH’s acting skills were in high gear in this episode. (Course I think he pretty much stays in high gear for each ep. ;)) He and JF are always so expressive, especially when it comes to the facial expressions.

"Greg" was good, but I still am not very enthralled with the Wraith in general. Steve still has the best line, “I am your death.” :D

Okay, this episode may have not been perfect, but I can look past the little nitpicky flaws. Yeah, it was predictable that one or both of the “red shirts” was going to get it, but the suicide was somewhat unexpected for me because Stargate is usually not very gritty and plays it safe most of the time to give us nice, happy endings. I prefer the grit. Yeah, the glowy bugs were a plot device, but again, I don’t care. Shep may have made some tactical and leadership mistakes, but I don’t expect him to be perfect. If he were a robot, then I’d complain, but I like his flaws. Unless they are ridiculously stupid. *cough* SG-1 *cough*

Enjoyed the two Star Trek references, but they better start spacing them out more between the episodes. Too much of a good thing and they’ll soon get old. Quick.

Excellent episode. One of my favorites. PDL did a great job writing and directing it. :)

Buzz Lightyear
January 31st, 2005, 12:44 AM
The closest alien we've seen to the glow bugs are the ones from SG-1. They're probaly a little different from each other, but as they're portrayed, there's more than a passing resemblance. Let's say the 2 lifeforms are distant cousins. Now, it was establishind in SG-1 that the glow bugs are intelligent and work in groups. It was also established that the glow bugs don't like to be held captive and will attack out of revenge. This would lead you to the conclusion that the glow bugs are at least a little bit 'sentient' ..maybe they're dumber, maybe they're smarter. But they're still intelligent beings.

You're making a huge assumption about the "bugs" in episode 4x19 "Prodigy". It was NOT established that they had any more intelligence than a swarm of bees or wasps. Besides, just because they're both "glowy bugs" doesn't mean they're related.


They seemed friendly enough. Shepard even talked to one in a friendly manner. It's doubtful he would have talked to an ant or a gnat in the same way, so it looks like Shepard acknowledged that the glow bug had a 'some' sort of intelligence.

Huh? Humans talk to animals all the time. Even plants. Doesn't mean either group has a high level of intelligence.


Then he lured dozens of them to their deaths. Without blinking an eye.

So he's a soldier. Does that give him carte blanche to massacre friendly aliens whenever he's in a bad situation? Sooner or later Weir is gonna have to explain to some alien leader 'Sorry we killed 30 of your people, but you see, we had a guy fighting a single wraith and he would've had to hold out an extra 60 seconds for backup to arrive. I'm sure you understand that 1 of our guys is worth more than 30 of your people.

Well, if those glow bugs have a level of intelligence like the energy beings in episode 1x09, I'm sure Sheppard et al will eventually pay for their crimes. :rolleyes:


Did I mention that he's also the one that woke up the Wraith in the first place? No?.okay good.'

He certainly didn't do so intentionally. So the Wraith wake up earlier than scheduled. So they go snack on the humans in Pegasus sooner rather than later. Your point?

Jeril
February 5th, 2005, 02:19 AM
Wow. I really liked this episode. Really. :D
Sure, at the beginning, I was like, "Oh, this is just average stuff. Nothing big here." But as soon as McKay got left behind with Gaul, my ears perked up and I was glued because I could smell character development coming on and I've gotta say: Excellent character development for McKay.
I liked actually hearing another character saying, "You've changed." I don't know why. That just affects how I view a character a lot and makes me really look at them in a new light.
Like, after this episode and Hot Zone, I think I can actually say I really like McKay. Geniunely. Before he just annoyed the hell out of me but now he's grown on me and I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of him.

And maybe I'm just sick, but I loved how Gaul killed himself. I was totally not expecting that. When McKay gave him the gun, I thought to myself, "Plot point!" but I never saw that coming. I actually rewound the tape I had the episode on and rewatched the scene three times. It was so different from anything else I remember from Stargate and, wow. Completely couldn't have seen it coming.
McKay's expression when he turned around was so good. Just indescribable. Loved it.

About those glowy bug-things: I kinda felt bad for them when Sheppard blasted them to hell but at the same time, it was so cool. :D Smart man.
Of course, he could've just told Ford to target the life sign in the middle. :p Wouldn't that have worked too?

SmartFox
February 6th, 2005, 10:46 PM
I really like this episode. I read how a bunch of you were bad mouthing Sheppard and i think its a bunch of crap.
First of all there is no way you could know that those glowy bugs are intelligent at all.
Second if you were in his shoes would you kill 10 bees to save your life and someone elses. What about 100 bees. What about 100 dogs. Answer these questions first and if no then you can say hes a "murder" but i think your kind of messed up if you would die so 10 bees could live.

Bastet11191967
February 7th, 2005, 12:10 PM
As far as the glowing bugs, my guess is that the wraith had stayed alive long after feeding upon everyone else by feeding upon the glowing bugs. It looked like the wraith was grabbing them and taking their life energy, so I think it's safe to say that they were goners before Ford fired upon the wraith. I may also be stretching it by comparing it to killing off deer to curb the spread of TB.

"Those are my thoughts, not yours."

SmartFox
February 8th, 2005, 08:27 PM
As far as the glowing bugs, my guess is that the wraith had stayed alive long after feeding upon everyone else by feeding upon the glowing bugs. It looked like the wraith was grabbing them and taking their life energy, so I think it's safe to say that they were goners before Ford fired upon the wraith.


Interesting never thought of that. I thought he just didnt like them so was killing them. They are so small i doubt he could get much energy from them though. Plus he did still have tons of bodies left in the ship.

Phaedron
February 8th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Right after this, Shep notices the ice, because of my tv, I thought it was just some mineral and I thought "Oh god, he's going to make gunpowder, oh wait he already has a gun."

I'm glad someone else noted the slyly embedded homage to "Arena." I'm surprised it didn't elicit more in the way of comment...!

Daniel's_twin
February 9th, 2005, 12:56 PM
Interesting never thought of that. I thought he just didnt like them so was killing them. They are so small i doubt he could get much energy from them though. Plus he did still have tons of bodies left in the ship.

Actually, who knows how much energy they have? My sister and I thought pretty much since we saw the little guys that the Wraith used them for some kind of snack. And since they seem to be made entirely of energy, who knows how much it could feed a Wraith? :cool:

greytop
February 9th, 2005, 02:10 PM
Actually, who knows how much energy they have? My sister and I thought pretty much since we saw the little guys that the Wraith used them for some kind of snack. And since they seem to be made entirely of energy, who knows how much it could feed a Wraith? :cool:
Maybe they were like a mid-morning or afternoon snack to him.

Easter Lily
February 9th, 2005, 09:04 PM
If you step back a couple of steps and take a look, Sheppard is a villian.

The latest case in point is that he killed off a bunch of those glowing beings while killing the Wraith. Those were intelligent life forms. Maybe they weren't as evolved as humans maybe they were, we don't know. Let's say they were on the intelligence level of something like dogs. What Sheppard did was the same as sticking a milkbone in the pants of a bad guy, sending a few dozen puppies after it to 'distract' the bad guy and then blew them all up. They just wanted something to eat and he killed them. That's not the actions of a nice guy, no matter what the situation.

That brings Shep's kill count up to what...over 100 dead in 2 episodes?

D

I can only imagine that you're playing Devil's Advocate here... and you're merely attempting to "stir the pot"... frankly speaking, if you are really that opposed to violence, what in the world are you doing watching sci-fi?!
On the off-chance that you're really serious, let me just say that it is easy for us to moralize and sit in judgement of someone who has to make life and death decisions when we are sitting in the comfort of our lounge chairs with all of life's luxuries at our finger tips... like everyone else has said, you've certainly jumped to a lot of conclusions about a lot of things...
This reminds me of a dialogue that I had with someone on another forum (during the blackout) about whether the Wraith had the right to exist and that it wasn't their fault that they needed sustenance by feeding on others etc etc... I know the Wraith are hungry but trust me... I'm not going to stand around for them to feed on me just because I might feel a little sorry that they need food... if I have the ability to fight back, I would. That's what makes Gaul's decision so compelling because I believe that it indirectly sheds light on what Sheppard did with regards to Sumner.

I don't think somehow that we're suppose to see Sheppard as a villain in all of this... he did what he had to survive... The best thing I can say is that you've seriously misunderstood the intention of the episode or perhaps you should wait till you've seen The Seige to have a better idea of Sheppard's character.

Finally, SG-1's been blowing Jaffa ships and causing problems on different planets for the last 8 years... I don't see anyone calling Jack a villian... Want to play the numbers game? Jack'll beat Sheppard hands down...

SeaBee
April 9th, 2005, 12:58 AM
A good ep.

Nice to see McKay getting into the firefight, proving that he's not just a geek.

Shep definately needs to get himself some more body armour, though. He's getting knocked about way too much. :)

SGLAB
May 12th, 2005, 08:32 PM
I liked this episode. While it was obvious Gaul and Abrams were red shirts, their deaths had an impact on the main characters.

Most red shirts on other shows are there just to be killed and the main characters seem to brush the deaths off like they were excess baggage.

Gaul's death had a real impact on Mckay and added to his development as a character and I liked that.

Daniel's_twin
May 13th, 2005, 06:04 AM
I liked this episode. While it was obvious Gaul and Abrams were red shirts, their deaths had an impact on the main characters.

Most red shirts on other shows are there just to be killed and the main characters seem to brush the deaths off like they were excess baggage.

Gaul's death had a real impact on Mckay and added to his development as a character and I liked that.

My family usually calls characters that are just there to be killed the "expendible crewmen". In a spoof of Star Trek TOS, they made fun of the fact that almost every episode had someone there just to croak. :cool:

SGLAB
May 13th, 2005, 03:48 PM
My family usually calls characters that are just there to be killed the "expendible crewmen". In a spoof of Star Trek TOS, they made fun of the fact that almost every episode had someone there just to croak. :cool:

Exactly. Star Trek TOS was just what I was thinking of when I posted before. It was nice to see their deaths could have some purpose other than "expendible crewmen" as you said. And that their deaths mattered.

watcher652
May 15th, 2005, 02:06 AM
If you step back a couple of steps and take a look, Sheppard is a villian.

The latest case in point is that he killed off a bunch of those glowing beings while killing the Wraith. Those were intelligent life forms. Maybe they weren't as evolved as humans maybe they were, we don't know. Let's say they were on the intelligence level of something like dogs. What Sheppard did was the same as sticking a milkbone in the pants of a bad guy, sending a few dozen puppies after it to 'distract' the bad guy and then blew them all up. They just wanted something to eat and he killed them. That's not the actions of a nice guy, no matter what the situation.

That brings Shep's kill count up to what...over 100 dead in 2 episodes?

DI'm surprised to see that someone thinks the glowy bugs are intelligent life forms. I don't see any indication that they are any more intelligent than bees. Not that there should be wanton killing of bees, but I'm glad Sheppard chose to save McKay and himself instead.

Another post suggests they are like some bug from SG1. I'm not familiar with those bugs, but I don't think they're the same. I think they were made glowy so we could see them in the bright sun, and to show that they give off some kind of energy. Energy that the Wraith can use since he seemed rather distracted by them when they appear.

There are only so many ways a glowy bug can glow.

And why say the glowy bugs are as intelligent as a dog? That's not indicated anywhere in the story. The bugs pretty much acted just like bugs.

Wow, Sheppard is a villian? What show is that? I just don't see it. It doesn't seem that the rest of the Atlantis expedition sees it either.

Sela
June 3rd, 2005, 07:17 PM
OMG - LOL!!! At the beginning, when Sheppard and the guys are on the planet and walking away from the ship, "Sheppard says, "Everyone remember where we parked." and the cloaking engaged. That shot was straight out of Star Trek: The Voyage Home and that was the very line that Kirk used.

I missed it before. That was great!!! :D

I had caught the other line about the ship before but I must have been distracted during the first part the first time it aired.

Atteria
June 3rd, 2005, 07:44 PM
OMG - LOL!!! At the beginning, when Sheppard and the guys are on the planet and walking away from the ship, "Sheppard says, "Everyone remember where we parked." and the cloaking engaged. That shot was straight out of Star Trek: The Voyage Home and that was the very line that Kirk used.

I missed it before. That was great!!! :D

I had caught the other line about the ship before but I must have been distracted during the first part the first time it aired.

That's exactly why I feel like I HAVE to watch each episode more than once, because I really miss alot. Last time I watched The Defiant One, I was very distracted by other things going on, and I missed the the fact the actor that played Dr. Brendan Gaul also played the archeologist Nyan, from SG-1, season 3.

And I LOVED when Shep said that line. It was great! :D

Overall, I enjoyed this episode more the second time around. :)

PsychoPenguin
June 3rd, 2005, 08:26 PM
Newbie here. I just saw this episode for the first time tonight, and I have to say I really enjoyed it! I think it's primarily because, despite the fact that the audience knows the regular characters *have* to survive the ep, the writers/actors/director still manage to create a real sense of horror and suspense in this story. I think this can primarily be attributed to the fact someone mentioned earlier: the deaths may have been of "expendable characters," but they weren't allowed to be dismissed or brushed off that easily, and taken into consideration with the other episodes I've seen, I think this "refusal to dismiss" is a real strength of the show. Every act of violence, every bad situation, every death serves as an opportunity for the main characters to display how they feel about the desperate situation they're in. And these actors do that so well! Even when they aren't given the lines, you can see it in their eyes. I love that!

I wasn't able to get into these shows during the school year, but now that I'm off for a little while, I'm trying to see how I feel about the "New Friday Night Lineup." Thus far, "Atlantis" eps can vary from a rocking action show to an excellent horror movie, followed nicely by the gritty, realistic serial drama that is BSG. "SG1," I have to admit, isn't doing much for me (I carried on a long conversation with my hubby during tonight's ep and neither one of us felt like we missed anything), but I'm going to wait and see what season nine brings.

Again, fantastic episode. Although when John just stood there after stabbing the wraith that time and immediately got the crap knocked out of him, my Air Force OSI husband ended up saying, "Yeah. He fights like a pilot." I just patted him on the knee and said, "Realism, baby. Realism." :D

P.S. I forgot to mention how much I loved the "Den Mother/Schoolboys" dynamic of the interchange between Weir and Shep and McKay at the beginning of the ep. I played poker with a table full of Navy, Air Force, and USMC guys last night (I came in third; hubby was the third person knocked out--Heh!), and that's exactly the way I feel sometimes. Although that doesn't keep me from taking their money. No matter how cute they are! ;)

Panther
June 4th, 2005, 12:41 AM
Shep displayed some nice tactical thought in that episode (finally!!!). Still there's always ways to nitpick. He was a moron for not keeping a steady rate of fire up when the wraith guy was down to keep him on the defensive, before shoving a Wraith Grenade sandwhich into his mouth...:D