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View Full Version : How did...? (spoilers for The Seed, regarding Keller)



Ouroboros
July 22nd, 2008, 12:13 AM
Ok so it was established fairly early on that this thing was growing out of her body right. So all these tentacles and what not are actually connected to her and sprouting through her skin and tissue and not just draped over her the way the FX were.

So when they inject the creature with the retrovirus the tentacles all die and the pathogen in her system is removed but what about the damage already done to her body?

Even if we go ahead and assume that the tentacles that are inside her and growing out through her skin just dissolve shouldn't that then leave her with skin that looks more like Freddy Kruger's than what we saw in the episode. There would be holes and scars and gashes everywhere a tentacle had displaced or replaced her normal human tissue. Either that or they don't dissolve and we end up with them having to just shave them down as much as possible to avoid ripping dozens of holes in her skin and now we've got Dr. Treestump.

In either case, short of some sort of elaborate nano tech removal and regeneration efforts or some as of yet undisclosed ability to regenerate skin like a Wraith she should not have come out of this in anything approaching pristine condition, even if she did live.

So did I miss something or is this just a typical no lasting consequences reset button.

Gate-builder
July 22nd, 2008, 12:43 AM
I noticed the same thing and can't think of any logical explanation. Nothing mentioned on the show would have been able to heal her like that with the exception of perhaps a sarcophagus, or nanites, neither of which they have access to.

The Signal
July 22nd, 2008, 01:49 AM
A wizard did it? :)

senilegreen
July 22nd, 2008, 01:53 AM
Yes, I wonder why she has no scars! Also, shouldn't she be in some sort of psychological trauma from all of this?

As I indicated in a short blurb on the long discussion of this episode, the action in the storylines are stomping all over any chance of realistic fiction/drama.

"The Seed" was not one of the franchise's better efforts.

thekillman
July 22nd, 2008, 01:54 AM
looks like they just grew out of her belly

Alipeeps
July 22nd, 2008, 02:16 AM
looks like they just grew out of her belly

I think they started growing out of her hand (which was lying on her stomach when they first discovered the growths), which was were the infection had previously started with the gooey stage.

FallenAngelII
July 22nd, 2008, 04:04 AM
What? More illogical stuff in "The Seed" we'll have to either fanwank our way to a solution or just go "Suspension of disbelief!" over? Who would've expected that?

Mitchell82
July 22nd, 2008, 10:00 AM
Ok so it was established fairly early on that this thing was growing out of her body right. So all these tentacles and what not are actually connected to her and sprouting through her skin and tissue and not just draped over her the way the FX were.

So when they inject the creature with the retrovirus the tentacles all die and the pathogen in her system is removed but what about the damage already done to her body?

Even if we go ahead and assume that the tentacles that are inside her and growing out through her skin just dissolve shouldn't that then leave her with skin that looks more like Freddy Kruger's than what we saw in the episode. There would be holes and scars and gashes everywhere a tentacle had displaced or replaced her normal human tissue. Either that or they don't dissolve and we end up with them having to just shave them down as much as possible to avoid ripping dozens of holes in her skin and now we've got Dr. Treestump.

In either case, short of some sort of elaborate nano tech removal and regeneration efforts or some as of yet undisclosed ability to regenerate skin like a Wraith she should not have come out of this in anything approaching pristine condition, even if she did live.

So did I miss something or is this just a typical no lasting consequences reset button.
The retrovirus healed her as well as getting rid of the growth.

FallenAngelII
July 22nd, 2008, 05:42 PM
The retrovirus healed her as well as getting rid of the growth.
That's some mighty retrovirus. Did Carson just invent some kind of ultra-cure that will heal even big gaping wounds in a jiffy?

SG-Lover-SL
July 22nd, 2008, 06:03 PM
That's some mighty retrovirus. Did Carson just invent some kind of ultra-cure that will heal even big gaping wounds in a jiffy?

The vaccine only killed the pathogen...

It does NOT destroy the already grown stuff. The vaccine severed the connection.....and prevented more growth, took away the intelligence and turned it to something like a Tree bark. Thats all. Thats what Carson said. They probably needed chainsaws to get her outa there....

FallenAngelII
July 22nd, 2008, 08:49 PM
The vaccine only killed the pathogen...

It does NOT destroy the already grown stuff. The vaccine severed the connection.....and prevented more growth, took away the intelligence and turned it to something like a Tree bark. Thats all. Thats what Carson said. They probably needed chainsaws to get her outa there....
I was being sarcastic after Mitchell82 claimed the following:
"The retrovirus healed her as well as getting rid of the growth."

PG15
July 22nd, 2008, 08:52 PM
Ancient dermal regenerator. ;)

EternalAlteran
July 23rd, 2008, 12:07 AM
That is the same thing when Sheppard got infected with the retrovirus, his body mass increased also I believe, so he should have some additional stuff on his body but he didn't. Also when the retrovirus was used on the Hive (No man's land & Misbegotten) we saw reversed Wraith, some of which I believe used to be warriors, but none of the guys seen in Misbegotten quite matched the posture of the warriors.

Unless of course the retorvirus can remove body mass, if so NO MORE LIPOSUCTION

FallenAngelII
July 23rd, 2008, 03:48 AM
That is the same thing when Sheppard got infected with the retrovirus, his body mass increased also I believe, so he should have some additional stuff on his body but he didn't. Also when the retrovirus was used on the Hive (No man's land & Misbegotten) we saw reversed Wraith, some of which I believe used to be warriors, but none of the guys seen in Misbegotten quite matched the posture of the warriors.

Unless of course the retorvirus can remove body mass, if so NO MORE LIPOSUCTION
Different retroviri.

talyn2k1
July 23rd, 2008, 04:09 AM
I wish we'd seen Keller suffering some after effects at the end of the episode, it was a bit Voyager-ish how she was on the verge of turning in to a Hive Ship but was absolutely fine at the end of the episode with no scars, no mental trauma, nothing.

I don't like the episodes where the crew are transformed/mutilated in some way by a virus but are all 100% cured by the end. The after effects don't even have to last in to the next episode, just beyond the end of the current one.

Surely it wouldn't have cost that much to stick some fake wounds or tentacle stumps on her for that short last scene.

Jill_Ion
July 23rd, 2008, 05:08 AM
Good ol' Stumpy Keller?

:lol:

I would've been OK with a few bandages or wounds - something that wouldn't leave scars that would have to be applied on the actress every week.

Cautious Explorer
July 23rd, 2008, 05:09 AM
Yes, I wonder why she has no scars! Also, shouldn't she be in some sort of psychological trauma from all of this?

As I indicated in a short blurb on the long discussion of this episode, the action in the storylines are stomping all over any chance of realistic fiction/drama.

"The Seed" was not one of the franchise's better efforts.

ITA. We're talking about the freak-out queen from Missing. Realistically, I think she'd be in a straight jacket (and this is one case where I could hardly blame her). Instead we get a happy little smile as if she just got over a case of the flu.

Of course, this is from the same writers who thawed out Beckett and put him right to work even though he has two years worth of trauma to deal with (prisoner, forced to assist mad scientist commit attrocities, and finds out he's a clone). No signs of psychological damage there either.

FallenAngelII
July 23rd, 2008, 06:44 AM
Bad writing? Who'd expect that.

No, seriously, I totally agree about the "Oh, people don't get traumatized on Atlantis"-part. Jennifer woke up without being able to move, told there's a creature growing out her body, then they just randomly leave her and shut the power off, leaving her alone.

Then, at some point, the creature took over her friggin' body and used it to speak its mind and she had tendrils and tentacles growing out of her body and covering it (at least her face).

Yet she's all smiles and jokes at the end. Hmmmm...

thekillman
July 23rd, 2008, 06:53 AM
why didnt they cut her out and say "she is recovering". much better. ronon is speechless. shep is hurt. and jennifer"i am a babyhive" keller walks around smiling. please, get her out of that scene, and add two lines.

"how is keller"

"shes recovering."

Jack_Bauer
July 23rd, 2008, 07:34 AM
a wizard did it? :)

lol

Ouroboros
July 23rd, 2008, 07:27 PM
It's a shame because having Keller, an attractive young woman, have to deal with something as devastating as massive body wide scarring that would at best only improve slightly over time would actually create a fairly original character arc for the series and serve to hammer home that what these people do is actually dangerous.

We don't want character arcs on Atlantis though, no sir, much more satisfying to just jam on the rest button Voyager style. But hell, even Voyager was willing to acknowledge that it would be impossible to remove every last trace of Borg technology from 7 of 9.

Cautious Explorer
July 24th, 2008, 04:59 AM
A wizard did it? :)

Not so far fetched. Did anyone else feel like they were watching a rehashed version of Sleeping Beauty at the end? The valient prince must cut his way through the evil brambles/tentacles, while the beautiful maiden lies helpless on her bed waiting for rescue. Granted, Keller wasn't so beautiful lying there draped in goo, but still....

ykickamoocow
July 24th, 2008, 05:17 AM
It's a shame because having Keller, an attractive young woman, have to deal with something as devastating as massive body wide scarring that would at best only improve slightly over time would actually create a fairly original character arc for the series and serve to hammer home that what these people do is actually dangerous.


That would work if Keller was really vein and cared alot about her looks but so far we havent seen any evidence of that.

FallenAngelII
July 24th, 2008, 06:11 AM
That would work if Keller was really vein and cared alot about her looks but so far we havent seen any evidence of that.
Or not. It doesn't take a really vain person to become distressed over getting horribly disfigured, even if it's only temporarily.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 08:22 AM
That's some mighty retrovirus. Did Carson just invent some kind of ultra-cure that will heal even big gaping wounds in a jiffy?

I'll grant you that they didn't explain how she was healed.

cjp240573
July 24th, 2008, 09:11 AM
The retrovirus healed her as well as getting rid of the growth.

the retrovirus can manipulate cells and active DNA growth, so this is what must have happened. How else can it make a wrath turn into human and back again.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 09:13 AM
the retrovirus can manipulate cells and active DNA growth, so this is what must have happened. How else can it make a wrath turn into human and back again.

That's kinda what I figured.

Lahela
July 24th, 2008, 09:13 AM
I enjoyed the ep overall, except for that one thing, which I must admit put a big mark against it. It just seemed utterly implausible that she could be healed so quickly and back on duty. IMO, it would have been far more believable if she had still been recovering - they could have played out the scene with her in the bed next to Sheppard's if they felt they needed her in it.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 09:16 AM
I enjoyed the ep overall, except for that one thing, which I must admit put a big mark against it. It just seemed utterly implausible that she could be healed so quickly and back on duty. IMO, it would have been far more believable if she had still been recovering - they could have played out the scene with her in the bed next to Sheppard's if they felt they needed her in it.

It's possible that because she was the main host that the injection reacted quite quickly to heal her. John was more gravely injured since he wasn't healed by the retrovirus after he was impaled.

Lahela
July 24th, 2008, 09:26 AM
It's possible that because she was the main host that the injection reacted quite quickly to heal her. John was more gravely injured since he wasn't healed by the retrovirus after he was impaled.

I guess so, but as much as I'm am advocate of "show, don't tell" I think a line of explanation would have sufficed... or maybe I can only suspend my disbelief so far ;)

FallenAngelII
July 24th, 2008, 10:31 AM
the retrovirus can manipulate cells and active DNA growth, so this is what must have happened. How else can it make a wrath turn into human and back again.
It's not the same retrovirus as the one that turns Wraith into humans (which is impossible through scientific means, that's just some BS the writers made up. In order to turn the Wraith into humans, the retrovirus would have to literally rebuild the Wraith's DNA cell by cell and then mutate most of their body... and somehow this can be reversed).

A retrovirus =/= The retrovirus

If it's so great at healing wounds and stuff, why is John in the infirmary? Why not inject John with some of it to instantly heal him like it did Jennifer?

GateofDOOM
July 24th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Bad writing? Who'd expect that.

No, seriously, I totally agree about the "Oh, people don't get traumatized on Atlantis"-part. Jennifer woke up without being able to move, told there's a creature growing out her body, then they just randomly leave her and shut the power off, leaving her alone.

Then, at some point, the creature took over her friggin' body and used it to speak its mind and she had tendrils and tentacles growing out of her body and covering it (at least her face).

Yet she's all smiles and jokes at the end. Hmmmm...

When the scene came up where they just shut off the lights without an explanation I was a little appalled at that doctors bedside manners. And I actually felt sorry for Keller (and I really don't like Keller). Anyway, it bothered me at the end that she was totally fine. The reset button again...

Off Topic: So there you have it, the best way TPTB have to make me like Keller is to have other characters be total jerks to her! ;)


It's possible that because she was the main host that the injection reacted quite quickly to heal her. John was more gravely injured since he wasn't healed by the retrovirus after he was impaled.

Eh? I don't think it would have healed a stab wound. Even if it can somehow heal the tentacles.

LoneStar1836
July 24th, 2008, 05:47 PM
A wizard did it? :)
lol! :D Bingo. We have a winner. That's as good as anything else tptb could have come up with.

I just totally blew off that miraculous recovery, as trying to come up with some believable excuse was pointless.


It took Shep weeks to recover from turning into a Wraith in Conversion. Slightly different situation but still....

FallenAngelII
July 24th, 2008, 05:48 PM
It's possible that because she was the main host that the injection reacted quite quickly to heal her. John was more gravely injured since he wasn't healed by the retrovirus after he was impaled.
What kind of a BS retrovirus is this? Oh, it can heal numerous holes (that go pretty deep) in someone's body... but only if they're hosts the pathogen!

Getting rid of the pathogen and healing the body are two different things. Also, explain why Ronon still needs healing? Or can this magical pathogen cure only heal big gaping holes and not bruised larynges?

Ouroboros
July 25th, 2008, 02:54 AM
If that virus really has the ability to basically instantly heal massive tissue damage like that then they've basically invented the classic video game "health pack" here. You get shot a bunch of times, use one and like magic allt he holes are gone and you're all better right on the spot.

If the next episode doesn't include everyone going out into the field carrying a bunch of health packs with them I'm going to have to assume they all have some sort of warped death wish.

I'm also going to echo the poster that talked about how them basically abandoning Keller in a locked dark room with the organism that was slowly devouring her had no impact what so ever on her cheerful friendly demeanor.

I know it might not be the most rational thing from a purely logical perspective but I'm inclined to think that having something like that done to you might just put a little bit of you know, strain, on some of your new budding friendships.

**** no one even stayed on and tried to comfort her over the damn intercom.

Mister Oragahn
July 25th, 2008, 03:32 PM
Not so far fetched. Did anyone else feel like they were watching a rehashed version of Sleeping Beauty at the end? The valient prince must cut his way through the evil brambles/tentacles, while the beautiful maiden lies helpless on her bed waiting for rescue. Granted, Keller wasn't so beautiful lying there draped in goo, but still....

No, that would be too 2D.

Wait...

melfan
July 26th, 2008, 12:45 PM
A wizard did it? :)

Best explination I've heard ;) :D

Mitchell82
July 27th, 2008, 10:17 AM
What kind of a BS retrovirus is this? Oh, it can heal numerous holes (that go pretty deep) in someone's body... but only if they're hosts the pathogen!

Getting rid of the pathogen and healing the body are two different things. Also, explain why Ronon still needs healing? Or can this magical pathogen cure only heal big gaping holes and not bruised larynges?

It was engineered to specifically get rid of the pathogen and truthfully she could still have plenty of scars we couldn't see since she was wearing clothes.

RepliBeau
August 23rd, 2008, 07:21 PM
As for the "trama" i think it's likely that she doesn't remember much of being a host.

And it wasn't a retrovirus that cured her, it was a PHAGE, short for bacteriophage, look it up on wikipedia. I think what happened was that it ate away the tendrils, because they were part of the infection.

And, if the tendrils were growing from her skin, and not from the inside, they would just fall off, apparently leaving minimal/no scarring.