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Phenix
July 19th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Who else is tired of Shep saving the day? I do not mind it when he's doing something that is militarily sound however ramming a VERY VALUABLE ship into the side of a building is just stupid. It is unjustifiably stupid.

I think it is high time for Shep to realize that his daredevil routine is going to get someone killed. Or that just maybe he needs to forgive himself and realize that Ford was not his fault.

Anyway, the ending I would have preferred to watch last night.

Ronon would still blast his way through the door. He'd go all samurai and cut through the vines. The vines would capture him but he'd get out of it. Throw the sword in the air or some ridiculous thing. During this escape he loses his ear piece. Command and Shep think he's down.

Cut to Shep...He runs out and prepares to board the PJ. Shep retains the same dialog but the audience is aware that Ronan is still still moving towards Keller.

Cut to Ronan fighting his way to Keller again. Honestly a flame thrower would probably be the only means but he's Super Samurai Ronan today. He lunges towards her and is thrown back by the concussion. Shep's idiot plan knocks Ronan out but wait he managed to inject Keller.

Shep walks out realizes that Ronan and covered in vines. You could even have the same position as before. As the seeds last act Shep is stabbed by a vine b/c he's an idiot.

Woosley proceeds to tear Shep a new one for destroying a PJ, isolation room, possibly allowing the seed to grow, and nearly killing both Ronan and Keller. Someone can tell Shep that you're not always the guy. You need to trust your team.

Later in the season maybe even next episode you could have Ronon turn on Shep....

Anyway just some thoughts.

Infinatus
July 19th, 2008, 10:38 AM
I actually like that Ronon didn't save the day in this episode because Ronon is always portrayed as virtually super human in strength and endurance. It's nice to see some more realistic outcomes for his heroics like in Outcast.

andromeda_dan
July 19th, 2008, 10:58 AM
the puddle jumper wasnt totaled. He had the shield up. At the most, it may need some light body work and new paint job.

jelgate
July 19th, 2008, 11:01 AM
Puddle Jumpers normally don't have shields

Infinatus
July 19th, 2008, 11:04 AM
Puddle Jumpers normally don't have shields

What makes you say that?

Linzi
July 19th, 2008, 11:04 AM
I rather liked the ending :D

But, I wouldn't mind Ronon saving the day, but in this instance, I think it was good to see Ronon incapacitated, because he's rarely seen like that. He's so strong and pretty invulnerable, I liked to see him all tied up! ;)

I do agree Shep saves the day a lot. However, he's the hero and lead, so it's par for the course, I'm afraid. :)

jelgate
July 19th, 2008, 11:07 AM
In Grace Under Pressure, Zelenka says that giving the Jumpers sheids seriously drains the power of a Jumper so sheilds are only used in extreme cases. Also it takes some tweaking to the Jumper to incorparate sheilds

Linda06
July 19th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Yeah it's getting rather tiresome with either Shep saving the day or Rodney saving the day............It happens far too frequently......Let different people save the day for once!

Infinatus
July 19th, 2008, 11:13 AM
I'll agree that shields drain power but I don't recall it ever being necessary to tweak a jumper to give it shields. And if it's possible to have a personal shield generator that fits in your palm then something as large as a jumper should definitely have shields.

kymeric
July 19th, 2008, 12:17 PM
Lol, hes pretty much the main character. Thats like saying WTF MACGUYVER SAVED THE DAY AGAIN on macguyver. lol?

padr49904
July 19th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Umm did you watch any episodes besides this one? They said in Grace under pressure and some other episodes I think that they had to make the cloak into one that the jumpers don't have them naturally. The cloak can hide them form virtually anything so there was never any real need for shields until now.

I really wish that Teyla could save the day sometimes. Has she ever been the real heroine?

Linda06
July 19th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Lol, hes pretty much the main character. Thats like saying WTF MACGUYVER SAVED THE DAY AGAIN on macguyver. lol?

It's different.......That other show is called MacGyver so of course he's gonna save the day but this show isn't called Sheppard...It's Stargate Atlantis and it's about the team,not just one man......Well it's supposed to be anyway....I mean on SG-1 O'Neill was the main man but you didn't see him saving the day all the time ;)

Linda06
July 19th, 2008, 12:25 PM
I really wish that Teyla could save the day sometimes. Has she ever been the real heroine?

Not that i can recall....It seems to be that only the guys are allowed to save the day :rolleyes:

Xaeden
July 19th, 2008, 12:28 PM
It's been said that they need to convert the cloak into a shield so it's not as simple as pushing a button and having shield up. When Zelenka was first doing it took him hours to reconfigure it and whether they've figured out how to do it faster since then or not, the shield wasn't up in this particular case (when he crashed into the building the shield would've become visible if it was on). But, even without the shield that was hardly enough force to destroy the jumper. I doubt there's even any damage to repair.

Platschu
July 19th, 2008, 12:37 PM
I thought a such alternate ending, when Sheppard flew away with the jumper and he let Atlantis be destroyed. :P

Linzi
July 19th, 2008, 02:07 PM
I thought a such alternate ending, when Sheppard flew away with the jumper and he let Atlantis be destroyed. :P
:lol:

PG15
July 19th, 2008, 07:46 PM
Who else is tired of Shep saving the day? I do not mind it when he's doing something that is militarily sound however ramming a VERY VALUABLE ship into the side of a building is just stupid. It is unjustifiably stupid.

Give me another option given the same situation.

Sometimes there's a REASON for the "daredevil" routine; nothing else will cut it (HAHA PUN).

Killdeer
July 19th, 2008, 07:53 PM
I actually think having Teyla come up with the solution would have been the best course. Not only has Shep done the reckless hero routine twice in a row now (I can't believe I'm saying this, but it is getting old) - it really didn't fit with the episode IMO. AND - it didn't make a bit of sense, to me anyway. I don't see a single reason that Shep wasn't swallowed up in tentacles the instant he set foot out of the jumper. Even if he still had some of the stuff in his system like Ronon did (and that's questionable, considering he was supposed to be cured), Ronon was taken down when he started shooting. How much more aggressively should the thing have responded to the jumper impact?

Teyla, on the other hand, has the wraith gene, and if the Wraith really grow these ships, they must have some way to control their growth, possibly telepathically. I think they could have used that to find a solution that made more sense, and it would have been a good way to get Teyla back in action. While I enjoyed her scenes with Rodney and her leading the team, she vanished rather inexplicably for the last 15-20 minutes of the show. And Sheppard didn't really need to be the "big damn hero" (apologies to Firefly) two episodes in a row. :S

Honestly, if the solution had just made sense to me, I don't know if I'd have cared that Sheppard was the one saving the day. Again. But it didn't, and that made Sheppard charging off to do his hero routine just that much more jarring. Urm. No pun intended. :o

chensuu
July 20th, 2008, 04:18 AM
I really wish that Teyla could save the day sometimes. Has she ever been the real heroine?

I've always kind of thought Teyla saved the day in Tabula Rasa. :teyla:

rarocks24
July 20th, 2008, 04:34 AM
I've always kind of thought Teyla saved the day in Tabula Rasa. :teyla:

She was also the one that got the Wraith to stop firing at the city in Siege, Pt 3 and allowed the ploy to work.

FallenAngelII
July 20th, 2008, 06:11 AM
Give me another option given the same situation.

Sometimes there's a REASON for the "daredevil" routine; nothing else will cut it (HAHA PUN).
Or we could stop it with the daredevil BS and the "everyone must be saved!" BS. Is this what Atlantis will be from now on? An expedition member's life on the life in every episode, a decision has to be made, save everyone or try to save that one person, risking everyone else's lives?

And then John saves the day by being a daredevil. That's two episodes in a row. Can we expect a 3rd for next week?

How did John even know where in the tower the infirmary was and where to crash the PJ as to not accidentally kill Jennifer? And how come the creature didn't attack John? I mean, he just walked up to Jennifer and injected her with the antidote.

Total BS.

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 06:18 AM
I've always kind of thought Teyla saved the day in Tabula Rasa. :teyla:

Nah that was Rodney that saved the day yet again......All Teyla had to do was tell him to press enter on his computer but essentially it was Rodney that done most of the work!

Laura Dove
July 20th, 2008, 07:23 AM
Teyla, on the other hand, has the wraith gene, and if the Wraith really grow these ships, they must have some way to control their growth, possibly telepathically. I think they could have used that to find a solution that made more sense, and it would have been a good way to get Teyla back in action.

I have to agree. I liked the episode a lot but I would have preferred Teyla playing a crucial role at the end. Maybe everything remains the same as in the actual episode, except that Teyla connects telepathically to the growing ship and either distracts it so that it won't attack Sheppard, or even orders it to release Ronon and let Sheppard go through.

marty2006
July 20th, 2008, 07:27 AM
What makes you say that?

Well they have been like that forever. Jumpers werent built for the purpose of fighting, they are recon ships with drones as defence just in case. Sure they can be altered but as said in pervious posts it seriously drains power.

Phenix
July 20th, 2008, 08:14 AM
I have to agree. I liked the episode a lot but I would have preferred Teyla playing a crucial role at the end. Maybe everything remains the same as in the actual episode, except that Teyla connects telepathically to the growing ship and either distracts it so that it won't attack Sheppard, or even orders it to release Ronon and let Sheppard go through.

I did not think of a link between Teyla and the Shipling. I think that would have worked and it would have put Shep is an awkward position.

Everything Shep did in that final scene shows that he doesn't trust his team and relies on himself. That is not exactly something I want in a team leader. He needs to learn a lesson at one point that carry through the series. I think that this episode provided a great avenue for showing Shep that he is not always that 'guy'.

I also think that it would be a good idea since Ronon temporarily abandons the team next episode. They could have used Shep's behavior as a way to get Ronon to change allegiances.

I understand that these writers have a hard job but I sometimes think that they always go for the easiest route. I don't think they realize that the audience is very intelligent and can follow plot lines.

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Or we could stop it with the daredevil BS and the "everyone must be saved!" BS. Is this what Atlantis will be from now on? An expedition member's life on the life in every episode, a decision has to be made, save everyone or try to save that one person, risking everyone else's lives?

Uh...hasn't that been the whole theme of the show since the beginning of SG1?


How did John even know where in the tower the infirmary was and where to crash the PJ as to not accidentally kill Jennifer?

Are you serious? You're questioning how Sheppard, someone who lives in Atlantis, and someone with access to schematics of the city, knows where the infirmary in that tower is? Really?

Do you see a problem here? How can he NOT know where it is?! The entire episode has been focused on that area of the city!


And how come the creature didn't attack John? I mean, he just walked up to Jennifer and injected her with the antidote.

That's less clear but I imagine he was just being innocuous until that last moment when he injected Keller. He was just walking around. Zelenka at least had started scanning the tendrils before it grabbed him.

I suppose you also want to know why they didn't attack him when he crashed the jumper. I have a theory for that too: the tendrils sensed that a projectile had hit the tower; they had no way to know that Shep was responsible, and thus he wasn't attacked. It's kind of flimsy, but it's fine for me.

Phenix
July 20th, 2008, 12:57 PM
Are you serious? You're questioning how Sheppard, someone who lives in Atlantis, and someone with access to schematics of the city, knows where the infirmary in that tower is? Really?

Do you see a problem here? How can he NOT know where it is?! The entire episode has been focused on that area of the city!

That's less clear but I imagine he was just being innocuous until that last moment when he injected Keller. He was just walking around. Zelenka at least had started scanning the tendrils before it grabbed him.

I suppose you also want to know why they didn't attack him when he crashed the jumper. I have a theory for that too: the tendrils sensed that a projectile had hit the tower; they had no way to know that Shep was responsible, and thus he wasn't attacked. It's kind of flimsy, but it's fine for me.

It is fair to question how Shep managed to crash his PJ into a building with out injuring Keller or Ronon. I think you are giving the writers too much leeway in this situation. Shep also has to know those schematics by heart since he had no time to really plan this out. Maybe we can give the writers some more leeway and say that the schematics are in the PJ and he was letting the PJ guide him to the crash site. BUT that is a lot of leeway. He'd also have to have the exact velocity so that he does not kill Keller by penetrating too far. There was a much simpler way to end the story.

The Shipling knows that it is under attack. I doubt it would let anyone near its most sensitive areas. Especially after a projectile has hit its main building. I mean come on. It is supposed to have intelligence. It is a writers gaffe. You again give them a ton of leeway.

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 01:16 PM
I'm fine with giving them "leeway" if it means I'm consistently entertained. Besides, you just provided the explanation right there; why can't the PJ have sensors that can show the schematics of the building? And yeah, Shep took a chance in crashing the PJ into the building despite there being 2 people inside it; he didn't have much choice at that point.

Kritter
July 20th, 2008, 01:20 PM
He'd also have to have the exact velocity so that he does not kill Keller by penetrating too far.

:eek:

But what a way to go :o

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 01:41 PM
:eek:

But what a way to go :o

:rolleyes: :lol:

melfan
July 20th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Puddle Jumpers normally don't have shields

Yes, they do

jelgate
July 20th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Prove it. Sheilded jumpers seriously drain power as stated in GUP

Klenotka
July 20th, 2008, 02:20 PM
Yeah it's getting rather tiresome with either Shep saving the day or Rodney saving the day............It happens far too frequently......Let different people save the day for once!

You know, the sad thing is that it´s not even Rodney who saves the day any more. He comes up with some plan, yes, but it´s usually Sheppard who takes the credit for saving everyone. Because it´s him who is the hero here so he listens to Rodney and then goes and "hey, Sheppard saved us while the others done nothnig".

But I have to agree that it would be fine if Teyla (when she is still there after being two years only an annoying wallpaper) could save the day. She has that potential. She doesn´t have to be always a victim. She is usually only kidnapped lately.

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 02:23 PM
You know, the sad thing is that it´s not even Rodney who saves the day any more. He comes up with some plan, yes, but it´s usually Sheppard who takes the credit for saving everyone. Because it´s him who is the hero here so he listens to Rodney and then goes and "hey, Sheppard saved us while the others done nothnig".

But I have to agree that it would be fine if Teyla (when she is still there after being two years only an annoying wallpaper) could save the day. She has that potential. She doesn´t have to be always a victim. She is usually only kidnapped lately.

It would have been so great if Ronon got to save the day in The seed.....I mean two times in a row Shep's done a daring mission :rolleyes:

Well i'm cautiously optimistic about Teyla this year :D And this is coming from a devout pessimist ;)

Killdeer
July 20th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Prove it. Sheilded jumpers seriously power as stated in GUP

I think jelgate's right. Jumpers normally have cloaks. They've modified a jumper occasionally to have a shield, such as in GUP, but I don't think it's a standard feature. :D

VOOK
July 20th, 2008, 06:24 PM
I didn't get why they just didn't use the Daedalus' Asgard beam and beam someone into the spot, the whole Episode after the whole "we have to get into there" I was like "Beam, Beam, Beam, Beam, Beam".

Amalthea
July 20th, 2008, 07:48 PM
I didn't get why they just didn't use the Daedalus' Asgard beam and beam someone into the spot, the whole Episode after the whole "we have to get into there" I was like "Beam, Beam, Beam, Beam, Beam".

Was the Daedalus still in orbit?

Alendra
July 21st, 2008, 12:25 AM
Shields on jumper drain power when they are under strain, like say ... some hundred feet under water, but when in the air or space I doubt it would drain much more power than the cloak.

stclare
July 21st, 2008, 04:43 AM
You know, the sad thing is that it´s not even Rodney who saves the day any more. He comes up with some plan, yes, but it´s usually Sheppard who takes the credit for saving everyone. Because it´s him who is the hero here so he listens to Rodney and then goes and "hey, Sheppard saved us while the others done nothnig".

But I have to agree that it would be fine if Teyla (when she is still there after being two years only an annoying wallpaper) could save the day. She has that potential. She doesn´t have to be always a victim. She is usually only kidnapped lately.

ITA

Shepp feels like he becoming predictable. though this didnt detract from the ep for me, i still enjoyed it. i would have enjoyed it even more if Telya had done the rescue. Also sad to say im fed up with ronan being all flexing of the biceps in every ep - waving his sword around ala He Man :o

Constanza
July 21st, 2008, 11:22 AM
Teyla, on the other hand, has the wraith gene, and if the Wraith really grow these ships, they must have some way to control their growth, possibly telepathically. I think they could have used that to find a solution that made more sense, and it would have been a good way to get Teyla back in action.

I was expecting the same thing… Teyla had to be the hero this time… those writers! They had the great ending right there, and the let it go! :confused:

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 11:24 AM
Shields on jumper drain power when they are under strain, like say ... some hundred feet under water, but when in the air or space I doubt it would drain much more power than the cloak.

But your forgetting that it takes time to change a cloak into a sheild or vice versa

marty2006
July 21st, 2008, 11:48 AM
I think jelgate's right. Jumpers normally have cloaks. They've modified a jumper occasionally to have a shield, such as in GUP, but I don't think it's a standard feature. :D

Spot on, end of discussion about the jumper shield.

Phenix
July 23rd, 2008, 08:11 PM
I'm fine with giving them "leeway" if it means I'm consistently entertained. Besides, you just provided the explanation right there; why can't the PJ have sensors that can show the schematics of the building? And yeah, Shep took a chance in crashing the PJ into the building despite there being 2 people inside it; he didn't have much choice at that point.

So, Shep destroys a PJ because he had no other choice. He essentially decided that Ronon would fail and that the rest of the base could not figure it out. He took it upon himself to crash into a building with out knowing if he'd kill both Ronon and Keller. I'm saying he did not know that he'd succeed b/c we do not know if the room's structural integrity would remain intact after that collision. The man who does this is not the man I want in charge.

You'll also have to get around how any commanding officer would not discipline Shep for destroying a piece of equipment that is more valuable than anyone on that base. Last time I checked they still can not build new PJs.

I guess I could deal with his heroics if he was occasionally punished. Not court marshaled just relegated to the base for an ep. That would at least allow for Ronon and Teyla to get some face time.

PG15
July 23rd, 2008, 09:29 PM
But again I ask: what choice did he have? What could any of them have done to save the creature from consuming the city?

People keep criticising and criticising, but none of them have ever given any other options. If there are none; if there is no other way to get into the building, then Shep's way, though dangerous, is the only thing that could've happened.

And they can certainly fix jumpers. I don't think it was that badly damaged so as to be unsalvageable.

miniglik
July 23rd, 2008, 10:13 PM
You'll also have to get around how any commanding officer would not discipline Shep for destroying a piece of equipment that is more valuable than anyone on that base. Last time I checked they still can not build new PJs.


So the expedition should put a price on human life? One jumper is more important than one person?

Lahela
July 24th, 2008, 09:09 AM
I know jumpers don't normally have shields, but I'm sure that particular jumper had a shield - we saw the blue flashy thing to show it... maybe it was the jumper from GUP and they kept it as shielded instead of cloaked?

andromeda_dan
July 24th, 2008, 02:28 PM
I take back my comment about Shepard ramming the building wiith a PJ with shields, to convert cloak to shield would take Shepard too long to make it happen (unless McKay obliged Shep's need for 'plug and play', in this case, its press the shield's up). The ancients just built a really darn good space ship that can hit a building at speeds of god knows how fast he is going without squashing the ship like a tin can. The inertia dampening system may save Shepard from being bounced straight up to the window and get squashed like a bug, but the physics for that ship's survival from such a crash at that speed is just.....

Ltcolshepjumper
July 24th, 2008, 02:33 PM
I actually think having Teyla come up with the solution would have been the best course. Not only has Shep done the reckless hero routine twice in a row now (I can't believe I'm saying this, but it is getting old) - it really didn't fit with the episode IMO. AND - it didn't make a bit of sense, to me anyway. I don't see a single reason that Shep wasn't swallowed up in tentacles the instant he set foot out of the jumper. Even if he still had some of the stuff in his system like Ronon did (and that's questionable, considering he was supposed to be cured), Ronon was taken down when he started shooting. How much more aggressively should the thing have responded to the jumper impact?

Teyla, on the other hand, has the wraith gene, and if the Wraith really grow these ships, they must have some way to control their growth, possibly telepathically. I think they could have used that to find a solution that made more sense, and it would have been a good way to get Teyla back in action. While I enjoyed her scenes with Rodney and her leading the team, she vanished rather inexplicably for the last 15-20 minutes of the show. And Sheppard didn't really need to be the "big damn hero" (apologies to Firefly) two episodes in a row. :S

Honestly, if the solution had just made sense to me, I don't know if I'd have cared that Sheppard was the one saving the day. Again. But it didn't, and that made Sheppard charging off to do his hero routine just that much more jarring. Urm. No pun intended. :o

I agree. This was the same tentacle like stuff that was on the Wraith Queen in Spoils of War, and yet the queen could control it. Teyla definitely should have been the one to go in.

Jackie
July 24th, 2008, 03:49 PM
But again I ask: what choice did he have? What could any of them have done to save the creature from consuming the city?

People keep criticising and criticising, e is no other way to get into the building, then Shep's way, though dangerous, is the only thing that could've happened.

And they can certainly fix jumpers. I don't think it was that badly damaged so as to be unsalvageable.

I honestly kept waiting for the Deadelus to show up at the last minute and beam him in. Beam out Ronon and then beam keller to the infirmary. I was glad tptb didn't go with that option.

Though, I see no reason for why teyla didn't go with either sheppard or ronon to deliver the magic cure all.

Carter1994
July 25th, 2008, 06:37 AM
Hmmm, seems I've come in rather late for this discussion. Oh well, I suppose it just means extra studying & reviewing (Yay! I love debates!) on my part. :)
Alright, so I've read over the entire thread and chosen some of the key issues to deal with in this particular post. Here we go!
1. The Jumper
a. Was there a shield or not?
b. So why wasn't the jumper destroyed on impact?
c. How did Sheppard know where to crash?
A.) I just replayed it (gotta love TiVo! :D) in slow-motion, and there was definitely no shield, which makes sense since jumpers don't normally have shields. (Grace Under Pressure; The Return pt. 2)
B.) While the jumpers have their flaws and aren't near as tough without the shield, they are pretty sturdy things. Considering how much Sheppard knows about not only the physics and such of flying, but also jumpers in particular, I find it very easy to believe he would be able to determine how fast to go without severely damaging the jumper or threatening the structural integrity of the tower.
C.) Are you kidding?! He's been the head of military operations for 5 years now, and you don't think he knows his way around? He probably knows more about the base than anyone, and he's proved it on multiple occasions. ;) (The Eye; The Long Goodbye)
2. What's with the oblivious vines?!
a. Why didn't they attack him the moment he set foot out of the jumper?
b. Why not after that?
A.) Well, you have to take into account that he did just ram a jumper into it. My guess is the vines were severed from the main part, rendering them useless.
B.) I'm not to sure about this, but I think the reason Sheppard had Beckett and Woolsey talking to 'Keller' was to distract it, therefore giving Sheppard the ability to walk through unnoticed.

3. Dumb idea?
a. Does he distrust his teammates?
b. Any other way?
A.) Absolutely not! He trusts them completely, but anyone could tell that it was going to go disastrously wrong, Ronon's only shot was if he could get through without having to fight.
B.) I certainly can't think of one, other than using drones which was suggested earlier in the episode.

4. Fine, but why'd it have to be him?
a. Ronon
b. Teyla
c. Other
A.) If Ronon had gotten through, I would have been extremely ticked with them. And I have nothing against Ronon- I'd be mad with them if they'd made Sheppard do it that way. There ware vines everywhere, and if we're going at this realistically, there is no way anyone could have made it through.
B. Although (most ;)) everyone seems to have forgotten, Teyla does have a baby! I was surprised she even went with Zelenka, does Atlantis have a nursery now? :D
C.) Once again, who else could do it?

________________________


Wow. That was a mouthful! Sorry, I sometimes get a little carried away when I write! :( (Strange, though... I'm actually very shy in person! :p)
Anyway, that was everything from my view point,and if there's any other possible situation anyone comes up with, I'd be quite interested! :)

Laura Dove
July 25th, 2008, 09:03 AM
B. Although (most ;)) everyone seems to have forgotten, Teyla does have a baby! I was surprised she even went with Zelenka, does Atlantis have a nursery now? :D

Well, I don't suggest that she should have gone all the way to Keller, that would have been way to dangerous for a young mom. But I still think that she should have at least tried to telepathically connect with the growing ship. It could have provided the distraction that effectively allowed Sheppard to access Keller without being attacked, and it would have been team work, instead of single hero work.

Carter1994
July 25th, 2008, 12:58 PM
While the ship was 'sentient' (per se :rolleyes:) and had accessed Keller's voice and tactics, it wasn't a wraith mind, it's a machine using a human mind, like in the SG-1 episode Entity, and we've never seen Teyla be able to link with a human mind, which is what she would be doing since it was in Keller's brain.
Also,I highly doubt Michael would have or could have given it the ability to access the wraith collective, seeing as if it was possible to do this to ships, that would mean Teyla could reach out to a regular Hive ship and order it to stop firing at the Daedalus in a battle or something like that? it just doesn't make sense! :D

Of course, I am a bit biased because while Teyla is one of my top 3 favorites, I hate it when she does the wraith telepathy stuff. :S

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2008, 05:14 PM
I know jumpers don't normally have shields, but I'm sure that particular jumper had a shield - we saw the blue flashy thing to show it... maybe it was the jumper from GUP and they kept it as shielded instead of cloaked?

It had a shield that is quite obvious I don't see how it isn't http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-3907681.png
It's also not the first time we've seen that either...http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/return2_0034.jpg
That is Return II. They normally don't have shields but in these two cases they did.

Carter1994
July 29th, 2008, 06:26 AM
I'm sorry, but how does that picture make it "quite obvious" that there was a shield? All I see appears to be smoke, possibly even the windscreen reflecting smoke, and the occasional spark...? :S

Mitchell82
July 29th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I'm sorry, but how does that picture make it "quite obvious" that there was a shield? All I see appears to be smoke, possibly even the windscreen reflecting smoke, and the occasional spark...? :S

Um the blue fluctuation is exactly what something impacting the shield looks like.

Carter1994
July 30th, 2008, 05:16 AM
The only blue I can see is just part of the jumper's consoles to the right... (My graphics card can't be that bad, can it? :p)

KindlyKeller
July 30th, 2008, 05:48 AM
I would have rolled my eyes and been pretty annoyed if Super Ronon just hacked through like Hercules as he usually does, and I didn't at all mind that Sheppard saved the day. But then again, I don't like Ronon and I like Sheppard a lot, so my feelings on the matter are pretty predictable.

I do agree that playing off of Teyla's vague Wraith telepathy would have been a good way to go, even if it wasn't only used concurrently with John's plan. They could have just used it as "Teyla keeps the entity completely occupied, which is why Sheppard was able to walk through unharmed."

Carter1994
July 30th, 2008, 05:57 AM
Well, I like 'em both, but as you said, there's just no way Ronon (OR Sheppard, or Teyla, or anyone) could manage to hack through all that, there was just way to much of it.

Zamboni
July 30th, 2008, 10:18 AM
It would have been better if Woolsey saved the day... With his bureaucratic prowess. He should have overwhelmed the vines with triplicates, forcing each vine to sign a release form here, here, and here.

And while the vines are busy signing, He just walks right in and injects Keller with his ballpoint pen... Err I mean antidote...

perkin127
July 30th, 2008, 03:30 PM
well my first impression was not again give it a rest shep, i know ronon is always being all super man but he never really saves the day! plus with the whole keller thing it might have been nice for ronon to save her, also i like the idea that it could have been teyla, as she certainly never saves the day (although she saves kellers life in missing) but u am getting a little bored of shep being the rebel with a cause that always saves the day, and thats saying a lit as i love shep.

And one more thing i think we also have to remember that beckett is the one to come up with the antidote in the first place so technically he's part responsible for saving the day

YutheGreat
July 31st, 2008, 04:25 PM
I have no problem about how Shepard did it. My problem is why was is SHEPARD again! I like the guy but It is always him. Many if not all of our Ancient Allies are connected to him: Todd Larrin Ancients etc.

Why don't they give others a chance?

ori soldier
August 29th, 2008, 09:29 AM
I'd have prefered it if sheppard set ronon free and then got trapped by tentacles and then ronon saved the day

Carter1994
August 29th, 2008, 11:41 AM
If I may make a point here, is it really the fact that Sheppard saved the day, or the fact that he did it twice in a row? What I mean is, I highly, highly doubt this would have ever come up if there was a larger amount of time or a few episodes between The Seed & Search and Rescue. So, perhaps we should argue timing rather than a character's methods! :p :D

michellec24_7
November 15th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Hmm, I do like the thought that Ronon for once gets to be 'the guy' but sounds like Shepherd isn't your favorite character?