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FallenAngelII
July 19th, 2008, 04:17 AM
Not again.

Yet another weird occurence in Atlantis where the person it happens to (once more a doctor) ignores it completely as if it were just a dream or something minor.

Jennifer wakes up with slime covering her hand. You'd think she'd be worried and, you know, tell people and have them look into it, but noooo, she cleans it up and then doesn't tell anyone.

This is how entire bases die from epedemics, people! For the love god, could these "professionals" be any less professional?!

And then when Jennifer doesn't show up as promised and doesn't respond, Rodney goes "Well, maybe she's just sleeping". Come on! After what happened with Kate?!

g.o.d
July 19th, 2008, 04:27 AM
that's because she shouldn't be CMO. She's another another whining young barbie girl, not a CMO

MathiasE
July 19th, 2008, 04:30 AM
Did you stop to think that maybe, just maybe this was because the seed in her system told her not to? She was under the influence of an alien entity which didnt want her to tell anyone so they wouldnt react to it.

*subrosa*
July 19th, 2008, 04:32 AM
I completely agree with all this, it annoyed me no end... but my mind compells me to discuss this no end, even though I really don't like what Keller did *coughdon'tlikeKellercough*

It is said that this thing messes with your brains even before the visual symptoms begin so who knows why she didn't report it in? Maybe she really did want to, but the..... thing, whatever it was, told her not to, it was like a second personality to her and maybe it was telling her that everything's ok and all...

Once again, I'm no fan of Keller, she's a whining, annoying, scared little girl and she is most deffinitely not fit to be a CMO, but I kinda thought that this should be pointed out...

FallenAngelII
July 19th, 2008, 04:34 AM
Did you stop to think that maybe, just maybe this was because the seed in her system told her not to? She was under the influence of an alien entity which didnt want her to tell anyone so they wouldnt react to it.
Yeah, the entity told her to wash all evidence away and then lie to everyone. Great entity.

Still doesn't explain Rodney's inexplicable case of "Oh, she's just sleeping".

*subrosa*
July 19th, 2008, 04:36 AM
true... but that's Rodney... he wouldn't want to be barging in on some girl naked in her bed doing God knows what right?

FallenAngelII
July 19th, 2008, 04:41 AM
More idiocy. Zelenka lying on the ground not screaming for Teyla to hurry up while sentient vines are preparing to strangle him or something.

(Yes, I'm watching the episode as I type this)

It's like they have to have every named doctor on base be stupid in this episode or something.

melfan
July 19th, 2008, 04:42 AM
More idiocy. Zelenka lying on the ground not screaming for Teyla to hurry up while sentient vines are preparing to strangle him or something.

(Yes, I'm watching the episode as I type this)

It's like they have to have every named doctor on base be stupid in this episode or something.

He had hit his head, so I think he wasn't thinking clearly

Platschu
July 19th, 2008, 04:42 AM
It is nice that you have time to create negative threads before you finished the episode. :rolleyes:

FallenAngelII
July 19th, 2008, 04:50 AM
He had hit his head, so I think he wasn't thinking clearly
But he wasn't unconscious. He was moving around.

If I'd spent 4 years in Atlantis under constant threat of death from an inumerable number of alien whatevers, I'd sure as hell have screamed the second I regained consciousness (if he was unconscious).

And impaired judgment or not, if something was growing out of my hand, I'd tell someone at once. I wouldn't be Rodney-paranoid but something weird occuring, oh yeah, everyone's gonna get to know about it.

g.o.d
July 19th, 2008, 05:19 AM
It is nice that you have time to create negative threads before you finished the episode. :rolleyes:

yeah, I forgot, some fans allow only positive comments here on GW.

*subrosa*
July 19th, 2008, 05:58 AM
I don't... but I hadn't really thought of this (Zelenka not screaming out) as a bad thing... Teyla was already heading over to him and he had a mild concussion and all... I would probably lose my ability to speak in a situation like that, merely because of the shock...

Malakriss
July 19th, 2008, 06:08 AM
Zelenka would be groaning at best and in a lot of pain if he took a hard blow to the head, but certainly he wouldn't be able to scream or call out immediately after that. Teyla was already on her way and had to jog him back to coherence.

They did make a point in the episode about how the seed impaired judgment. That was blatantly meant to explain Keller's (lack of) actions. What are you complaining about again?

SGFerrit
July 19th, 2008, 06:13 AM
This was basically explained in the episode. The entity takes control of you, and can exert influence over you even before the first symptoms appear.

FallenAngelII
July 19th, 2008, 06:39 AM
They did make a point in the episode about how the seed impaired judgment. That was blatantly meant to explain Keller's (lack of) actions. What are you complaining about again?
Explain to me again how impaired judgmenet = Meticulously scrubbing away all traces of Wraith fluid thingie. Also, explain how out of everyone's actions, Jennifer's was the only one who did something monumentally stupid while the rest just seemed like themselves, just a little more on edge.

HJtravels
July 19th, 2008, 07:49 AM
The episode is another example of the problems with Stargate Atlantis. The story just doesn't make much sense. First Sam leaves, which makes things unstable for us who like her. Woolsey is an idiot, so we automatically don't like him. The only thing that would have been more annoying about this episode is if we had Rodney constantly whining a little more.

I hate this, we need to move forward with some good storylines. These one episode things that create a big problem and complete it by the end are good but don't really move the storyline forward. If we had gotten anything constructive out of the story. Maybe we could have fingured out how it works and what it's supposed to do. But in the end it's just kind of over. I loved SG-1 and like Atlantis, but the show needs to get back on track. These lines that don't make a lot of sense aren't helping my like this show anymore.

HJ

Vala_M
July 19th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Not again.

Yet another weird occurence in Atlantis where the person it happens to (once more a doctor) ignores it completely as if it were just a dream or something minor.

Jennifer wakes up with slime covering her hand. You'd think she'd be worried and, you know, tell people and have them look into it, but noooo, she cleans it up and then doesn't tell anyone.

This is how entire bases die from epedemics, people! For the love god, could these "professionals" be any less professional?!

And then when Jennifer doesn't show up as promised and doesn't respond, Rodney goes "Well, maybe she's just sleeping". Come on! After what happened with Kate?!

With Woolsey in command, would YOU tell him that you woke up with slime on your hand?

Vala,

Lord batchi ball
July 19th, 2008, 09:01 AM
When I first saw her hand covered I thought wow, she can really drool, then i thought maybe she has a cold ;). I really didn't see it as a problem, just like she didn't see it as one she was just embarrassed, and rightfully so b/c that was nasty.

Now the doc I find stupid is the one who was intibating shep, didn't she ever learn that in order for that to work it has to enclosed around his mouth and not 3 inches above it. :D

Phenix
July 19th, 2008, 09:37 AM
But he wasn't unconscious. He was moving around.

If I'd spent 4 years in Atlantis under constant threat of death from an inumerable number of alien whatevers, I'd sure as hell have screamed the second I regained consciousness (if he was unconscious).

And impaired judgment or not, if something was growing out of my hand, I'd tell someone at once. I wouldn't be Rodney-paranoid but something weird occuring, oh yeah, everyone's gonna get to know about it.

A knock on the head can disorient you for a period of time.

Keller's judgement (why do I write like a Brit?) was impaired by the seed.

Rodney's reaction was ridiculous but I despise his character.

Xaeden
July 19th, 2008, 09:53 AM
Explain to me again how impaired judgmenet = Meticulously scrubbing away all traces of Wraith fluid thingie. Also, explain how out of everyone's actions, Jennifer's was the only one who did something monumentally stupid while the rest just seemed like themselves, just a little more on edge.

It was more than impaired judgement. The thing was subtly compelling her actions. Thus she wanted to run a scan, but didn't know why she didn't. Instead she almost zombie like washed the slime off and had this look of worry on her face when the other doctor walked in on her doing it. Then she went back to zombie mode and began saying what she needed to get rid of the other doctor.

Cory Holmes
July 19th, 2008, 11:29 AM
First Sam leaves, which makes things unstable for us who like her.

I know! How dare the actress go off and join another show?!

Nath
July 19th, 2008, 01:23 PM
I know! How dare the actress go off and join another show?!

Well, I love her and it was good to see her in Atlantis. But we can't be selfish. She has another project, it's understandable. She played Sam Carter during 10 years ! She even went to Atlantis. Maybe she doesn't want to be stuck with her character all her actress's life. It would make sense, don't you think ?

As for this episode, I have to admit it was a little awkward and it would have been nice to see more explanations about the organic stuff that grows, it's curious and strange. But again, all was coherent (as always with the franchise). It was explained how Keller did not report her problem and we could see there was something wrong with her. Maybe at first she appears weak, but she is very capable I think. And Radek has hit the floor, I know I would be shocked too. It's difficult to make coherent thoughts in these situations.

(Constructive criticism is welcome. Personally, I watch an episode twice before making any judgment, it helps a lot to fully understand the story. Try it.)

So be positive guys and enjoy the show (or don't watch it)

Cory Holmes
July 19th, 2008, 02:03 PM
I don't think I was clear enough that I was being sarcastic. I support Ms. Tapping in everything she does and can appreciate the hard choice she had to make whether or not to stay with The A-Team or go with her own show. I was merely mocking those who blame the replacing of Carter as leader on the PTBs.

RepliVeggie
July 19th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Yea i was under the impression Keller didn't know why she didnt report it. Kinda like she knew she had to but for some reason didn't because the Seed was manipulating her.

GateofDOOM
July 19th, 2008, 04:39 PM
If you wanna talk about idiot doctors...

*The scene where they shut off the power in the tower.*

Keller: What's happening? Maria, what's going on?

Arbitrary Doctor: Doctor we've been ordered to evacuate the building. I'm sorry.

*The power goes off*

I mean, damn that's cold. Cut off all lights and communications to your terrified patient without an explanation?
That is poor, poor bedside manner, bordering on the irresponsible and idiotic.


Sorry, that line really bugged me.:o

Amakusa
July 19th, 2008, 06:36 PM
I mean, damn that's cold. Cut off all lights and communications to your terrified patient without an explanation?
That is poor, poor bedside manner, bordering on the irresponsible and idiotic.


I'll have to remember that the next time you've got a tentacle monster growing out of you.

Jack_Bauer
July 19th, 2008, 06:37 PM
More idiocy. Zelenka lying on the ground not screaming for Teyla to hurry up while sentient vines are preparing to strangle him or something.

(Yes, I'm watching the episode as I type this)

It's like they have to have every named doctor on base be stupid in this episode or something.

'have you ever had a concussion?

PG15
July 19th, 2008, 07:36 PM
So...problem solved in this here thread?

Keller was under alien influence; Rodney was being Rodney; and Radek got a blow to the head that disoriented him. Thread's done.

GateofDOOM
July 20th, 2008, 02:11 AM
I'll have to remember that the next time you've got a tentacle monster growing out of you.

Hey, it happens more often then you'd think.









:D

Cory Holmes
July 20th, 2008, 07:24 AM
Hey, it happens more often then you'd think.









:D

You so earn green for this :)

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 10:36 AM
Jennifer wakes up with slime covering her hand. You'd think she'd be worried and, you know, tell people and have them look into it, but noooo, she cleans it up and then doesn't tell anyone.

» Because Keller's a dumba**. ;)


And then when Jennifer doesn't show up as promised and doesn't respond, Rodney goes "Well, maybe she's just sleeping". Come on! After what happened with Kate?!

» :weiranime22: My thoughts exactly. Except unlike Kate, I wanted Keller to die.

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 10:51 AM
» Because Keller's a dumba**. ;)

On the contrary. The fact that some fans were too...uh...unfocused to pick up that point (about the seed controlling her mind) in the plot pretty much says how much comprehension power they have...

FallenAngelII
July 20th, 2008, 11:25 AM
On the contrary. The fact that some fans were too...uh...unfocused to pick up that point (about the seed controlling her mind) in the plot pretty much says how much comprehension power they have...
The seed didn't control her (back then at least), it influenced her. If it were indeed controling her and sharing her mind (which it's shown to do later) already back then, it would've commanded her to wander straight to a room somewhere where it could easily tap into the ZPM. In fact, it would've gone straight for the ZPM instead of going for the power conduits first.

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 11:31 AM
On the contrary. The fact that some fans were too...uh...unfocused to pick up that point

» I know what you're saying; don't hide the truth that the word you had in mind was "stupid". ;):D

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Moi?! I would never, EVER use such a...uh...rude word. :D


The seed didn't control her (back then at least), it influenced her. If it were indeed controling her and sharing her mind (which it's shown to do later) already back then, it would've commanded her to wander straight to a room somewhere where it could easily tap into the ZPM. In fact, it would've gone straight for the ZPM instead of going for the power conduits first.

You're right, I misspoke. Nonetheless, influence is still plenty enough for her to keep her mouth shut about the slime.

EdenSG
July 20th, 2008, 01:07 PM
I am neutral on Keller, she isn’t a favorite but I don’t hate her. The scene where she wakes up with the slime on her hand was interesting. The character seemed a bit confused as to where it came from. When she cleaned it off her hand and didn’t tell anyone I thought it was irresponsible – at the time. However I thought the writers did a good job explaining why she didn’t tell anyone and reinforced that fact several times through out the episode.

From the moment she awoke with the goo on her hand she was acting a bit strange, almost zombie-like as other posters have mentioned. Many other characters noticed it. The doctor that came in when she was washing the goo off her hands thought she looked tired and told her to get some rest. Then Rodney noticed it at the meeting the next morning and asked if she was alright; then Sheppard noticed it after they welcomed Carson back and told her to get some sleep. In the scene where Rodney is talking to the infected Keller, he asks her why she didn’t tell anyone about the goo and she says she wanted to run a scan but didn’t know why she didn’t indicating she knew something was wrong, knew she should investigate it but for some reason didn’t. The explanation on why she didn’t was given in the scene where Teyla told Woolsey and Zalenka about Rodney’s warning about the creature going for the power conduit. They stated that the creature could impair a person’s judgment even before symptoms appeared. So she may not have been “controlled” by the entity at the time she washed her hands of the goo but I think it was pretty obvious the writers were saying the entity was impairing her judgment, thus the reason she did not do anything about it.

If you take the goo hand washing scene out of context and look at just that, she was not looking so smart. But if you put that scene into the context of the story, the information that was eventually revealed about the entity and overall situation through the other supporting scenes I mentioned I think the explanation is very apparent. I think the writers emphasized this point quite well.

Pic
July 20th, 2008, 01:15 PM
And impaired judgment or not, if something was growing out of my hand, I'd tell someone at once. I wouldn't be Rodney-paranoid but something weird occuring, oh yeah, everyone's gonna get to know about it.

She did mention that she had meant to perform a scan but didn't for some reason. Hence the whole mind-interference thing.

On another note, if she had sounded the alarm - what would it be?
"I fell asleep at my 'desk' and woke up with a bunch of goo on my hand. Oh, and I'm kinda tired."
Fans would probably blast her for complaining and being whiny or something. I mean, you've taken a job on a remote base in another galaxy, suck it up! *gigglesnort

As for Zelenka and Carson (the other doctors racing around the city) I think McKay said it best when he talked about the "B-team". And before the Carson-lovers flame me for that, I only mean because Carson's condition obviously didn't have him functioning at 100% (at least I'm hoping that is what that horrid make-up job was supposed to convey).

FallenAngelII
July 20th, 2008, 02:27 PM
On another note, if she had sounded the alarm - what would it be?
"I fell asleep at my 'desk' and woke up with a bunch of goo on my hand. Oh, and I'm kinda tired."
Fans would probably blast her for complaining and being whiny or something. I mean, you've taken a job on a remote base in another galaxy, suck it up! *gigglesnort
You wake up with spontaneous mystery goo around your hand in the Pegasus Galaxy, you report it. It would irresponsible not to. It's been established by now that creature at least had influence enough over her to tell her not to report it and I'll admit that, yah, maybe her will was just that weak by then.

But had she not been under its influence, it would be very irresponsible to not report it. It's Pegasus. You report mystery slime even if it's on the floor!

Amalthea
July 20th, 2008, 02:42 PM
At first, I thought the slime was like when you fall asleep at the office and then wake up with post-it notes all over you.

After, it was pretty clear Keller was out of it and that the slime had taken over.

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 02:47 PM
Not again.

Yet another weird occurence in Atlantis where the person it happens to (once more a doctor) ignores it completely as if it were just a dream or something minor.

Jennifer wakes up with slime covering her hand. You'd think she'd be worried and, you know, tell people and have them look into it, but noooo, she cleans it up and then doesn't tell anyone.
A) She didn't ingore it she just didn't think it was that big of a deal due to the influence of the entity.



And then when Jennifer doesn't show up as promised and doesn't respond, Rodney goes "Well, maybe she's just sleeping". Come on! After what happened with Kate?!
Um because it's Rodney? Duh.;)

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 02:47 PM
The scene where she wakes up with the slime on her hand was interesting. The character seemed a bit confused as to where it came from.

» *non-PG thoughts ... non-PG thoughts* :eek:

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 02:47 PM
You wake up with spontaneous mystery goo around your hand in the Pegasus Galaxy, you report it. It would irresponsible not to. It's been established by now that creature at least had influence enough over her to tell her not to report it and I'll admit that, yah, maybe her will was just that weak by then.

But had she not been under its influence, it would be very irresponsible to not report it. It's Pegasus. You report mystery slime even if it's on the floor!

Um you just proved my point here she was under it's ifluence hence the reason she didn't report it.

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 03:00 PM
» *non-PG thoughts ... non-PG thoughts* :eek:

...

Ok, I really wished that I'd chosen a different name here.

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 03:07 PM
...

Ok, I really wished that I'd chosen a different name here.

:lol: I'm not sure I want to know exactly what Reiko is thinking.

ziga1980
July 21st, 2008, 01:47 AM
The episode is another example of the problems with Stargate Atlantis. The story just doesn't make much sense. First Sam leaves, which makes things unstable for us who like her. Woolsey is an idiot, so we automatically don't like him. The only thing that would have been more annoying about this episode is if we had Rodney constantly whining a little more.

I hate this, we need to move forward with some good storylines. These one episode things that create a big problem and complete it by the end are good but don't really move the storyline forward. If we had gotten anything constructive out of the story. Maybe we could have fingured out how it works and what it's supposed to do. But in the end it's just kind of over. I loved SG-1 and like Atlantis, but the show needs to get back on track. These lines that don't make a lot of sense aren't helping my like this show anymore.

HJ

you're absolutely right!!! i completely agree. but furthermore we're up against so many scary, evil, monsters/enemies who are so smart and cunning and advanced and we're so puny, stupid and week compared to them and we still win time and time again. without even breaking a sweat. that's the main problem. i've been talking about it from the beginning of s4. but no...we get even more of this horse**** episodes and obviously it has progressed even further and now even our own people are idiots.

however the biggest idiot in this ep was ronon. why on earth didn't he toss a few grenades into the hallway to kill that thing but instead he walks right into the middle of it and then he starts shooting.

and beckett...he engineered that phage real quick. makes one wonder...

Xaeden
July 21st, 2008, 03:37 AM
however the biggest idiot in this ep was ronon. why on earth didn't he toss a few grenades into the hallway to kill that thing but instead he walks right into the middle of it and then he starts shooting.

We know why - They all thought someone could much more easily sneak their way in without incident than one could fight their way through from the start. The plan failed near the end when Ronon ran into a dead end so his only options were to leave and rethink the plan or to try and shoot his way through and make a run for it. Had he thrown grenades around previous to that he would've had to stop and fight his way through with his weapon at the point where he got stuck anyway as he was too close to Keller to use explosives.

g.o.d
July 21st, 2008, 04:14 AM
I was missing one thing in this episodes...well not just one..but, why the hell didn't they use Flamethrowers or great friend of Vietcong, Mr. Napalm

Jumper_One
July 21st, 2008, 10:49 AM
I was missing one thing in this episodes...well not just one..but, why the hell didn't they use Flamethrowers or great friend of Vietcong, Mr. Napalm

because that would've probably killed Keller

g.o.d
July 21st, 2008, 10:55 AM
because that would've probably killed Keller

and save entire city without putting it and the expedition under the risk in the first place.

it's the samething like in 501 when Daedalus didn't destroyed Michael's cruiser with him, his army and Teyla aboard

Rac80
July 21st, 2008, 11:29 AM
With Woolsey in command, would YOU tell him that you woke up with slime on your hand?

Vala,
LOL- Not me!


When I first saw her hand covered I thought wow, she can really drool, then i thought maybe she has a cold ;). I really didn't see it as a problem, just like she didn't see it as one she was just embarrassed, and rightfully so b/c that was nasty.

Now the doc I find stupid is the one who was intibating shep, didn't she ever learn that in order for that to work it has to enclosed around his mouth and not 3 inches above it. :D
My first thought was -"wow and I thought my allergies were bad!" :P


A knock on the head can disorient you for a period of time.

Keller's judgement (why do I write like a Brit?) was impaired by the seed.

Rodney's reaction was ridiculous but I despise his character.

you need to visit this thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=56613) you will find like minded people there! :D


She did mention that she had meant to perform a scan but didn't for some reason. Hence the whole mind-interference thing.

On another note, if she had sounded the alarm - what would it be?
"I fell asleep at my 'desk' and woke up with a bunch of goo on my hand. Oh, and I'm kinda tired."
Fans would probably blast her for complaining and being whiny or something. I mean, you've taken a job on a remote base in another galaxy, suck it up! *gigglesnort

As for Zelenka and Carson (the other doctors racing around the city) I think McKay said it best when he talked about the "B-team". And before the Carson-lovers flame me for that, I only mean because Carson's condition obviously didn't have him functioning at 100% (at least I'm hoping that is what that horrid make-up job was supposed to convey).

I thought it was a toupee...the stasis chamber made his hair fall out! :eek:


you're absolutely right!!! i completely agree. but furthermore we're up against so many scary, evil, monsters/enemies who are so smart and cunning and advanced and we're so puny, stupid and week compared to them and we still win time and time again. without even breaking a sweat. that's the main problem. i've been talking about it from the beginning of s4. but no...we get even more of this horse**** episodes and obviously it has progressed even further and now even our own people are idiots.

however the biggest idiot in this ep was ronon. why on earth didn't he toss a few grenades into the hallway to kill that thing but instead he walks right into the middle of it and then he starts shooting.

and beckett...he engineered that phage real quick. makes one wonder...

I wonder, too, how much control michael exerts over carson.......

Reiko
July 21st, 2008, 02:13 PM
because that would've probably killed Keller

» You're saying that like it's a bad thing ...

FallenAngelII
July 21st, 2008, 03:09 PM
Yes, not sacrificing Jennifer was extremely irresponsible of them. What happened to "We don't send people in blind to fight a losing battle"? They knew the creature would protect itself judging by what it did when Radek merely touched it.

So they sent Ronon in blind on the hopes that him carrying the pathogen would have it ignore him despite the fact that it was nothing like the Iratus bug. Then, when Ronon lost contact, they allowed John to run off and risk his life as well!

In the end, they lucked out due to Deus ex Machina (the creature didn't even react to John 'til he'd doomed it). But what if they hadn't? 3 lives lost and a chunk of the ZPM. I bet they're gonna love that when Michael and the new evil race attack!

Reiko
July 21st, 2008, 03:12 PM
» And I thought the writers liked big explosions. Sadly, back to square one: we're stuck with Keller for another 15 episodes.

» I'm sure the writers would have no hesitation blowing it to pieces if it were Zelenka or Lorne. :rolleyes:

Mitchell82
July 21st, 2008, 03:35 PM
» You're saying that like it's a bad thing ...

For some like me it would be.

Mitchell82
July 21st, 2008, 03:38 PM
Yes, not sacrificing Jennifer was extremely irresponsible of them. What happened to "We don't send people in blind to fight a losing battle"? They knew the creature would protect itself judging by what it did when Radek merely touched it.
Because you don't always play by the rules. Jennifer has become close with the other members of the team. Yes they made an emotional call but it turned out to be the right one.


So they sent Ronon in blind on the hopes that him carrying the pathogen would have it ignore him despite the fact that it was nothing like the Iratus bug. Then, when Ronon lost contact, they allowed John to run off and risk his life as well!
And....?

I
n the end, they lucked out due to Deus ex Machina (the creature didn't even react to John 'til he'd doomed it). But what if they hadn't? 3 lives lost and a chunk of the ZPM. I bet they're gonna love that when Michael and the new evil race attack!
That wasn't a case of Deus ex Machina.

Jumper_One
July 21st, 2008, 03:58 PM
» You're saying that like it's a bad thing ...

um...yup

ziga1980
July 22nd, 2008, 03:03 AM
Yes, not sacrificing Jennifer was extremely irresponsible of them. What happened to "We don't send people in blind to fight a losing battle"? They knew the creature would protect itself judging by what it did when Radek merely touched it.

So they sent Ronon in blind on the hopes that him carrying the pathogen would have it ignore him despite the fact that it was nothing like the Iratus bug. Then, when Ronon lost contact, they allowed John to run off and risk his life as well!

In the end, they lucked out due to Deus ex Machina (the creature didn't even react to John 'til he'd doomed it). But what if they hadn't? 3 lives lost and a chunk of the ZPM. I bet they're gonna love that when Michael and the new evil race attack!

oh dont worry about the zpm. micheal and his army are incompetent. it was obvious in all the previous eps.



Because you don't always play by the rules. Jennifer has become close with the other members of the team. Yes they made an emotional call but it turned out to be the right one.

as it always happens. they just always know what the right call is. this is bad for the show. you dont always know what to do and you dont know what is the right thing and you most certainly dont gamble with so many lives and recourses at stake. killing keller in that situation would be the right call. or transporting her to a nice piece of land and comfortably sit back while you wait for your brand new hive.

FallenAngelII
July 22nd, 2008, 04:09 AM
Because you don't always play by the rules. Jennifer has become close with the other members of the team.
Tell that the many people who were left behind on SG-1. Tell that to Elizabeth who was left behind because "it would be too risky" to send a team in to rescue her. What, like she hadn't become close with expedition?


Yes they made an emotional call but it turned out to be the right one.
They got lucky. I know that it's Sci-fi and a TV-show but realism is still something one should strive for. Constantly making emotional calls based on nothing but empty theories ("I don't think it'll attack someone with the pathogen inside of them!") and going in blind is stupid. They only manage to do it due to dumb blind luck.

And these are the people who are supposed to be fighting for the fates of two (now one) galaxies? Yeah... if I were a Pegasian or someone from the IOA, I'd kick their asses for being such dumbasses and risking the lives of tons for the lives of a few when the risk is considerably and you have to rely on sheer dumb luck to win.


That wasn't a case of Deus ex Machina.
"The creature was too stupid to defend itself... despite having shown itself sentient and intelligent just earlier." - That's shoe-horning in an illogical conclusion because they couldn't come up with a good solution, sounds like Deus ex Machina to me.

g.o.d
July 22nd, 2008, 09:05 AM
» You're saying that like it's a bad thing ...

killung her is pointless, because she can always return. She's like Teyla...immortal. She'll be there until the very end:(

g.o.d
July 22nd, 2008, 09:07 AM
"The creature was too stupid to defend itself... despite having shown itself sentient and intelligent just earlier." - That's shoe-horning in an illogical conclusion because they couldn't come up with a good solution, sounds like Deus ex Machina to me.

no, creature was just like every other Stargate enemy..too stupid to defend itself. No matter how powerful it really was, our heroes are always more powerful :rolleyes:

Kezia
July 22nd, 2008, 09:11 AM
Tell that the many people who were left behind on SG-1. Tell that to Elizabeth who was left behind because "it would be too risky" to send a team in to rescue her. What, like she hadn't become close with expedition?

ITA, that's just inconsistent writing.


"The creature was too stupid to defend itself... despite having shown itself sentient and intelligent just earlier." - That's shoe-horning in an illogical conclusion because they couldn't come up with a good solution, sounds like Deus ex Machina to me.

It was weird how the creature was able to subdue Ronon of all people, but not Shep.

thekillman
July 22nd, 2008, 09:18 AM
so. does it occur to anyone, that the entity was like the wraith version of a goauld, except it grows into a ship, and doesnt have glowy eyes? it controlled her, like a little puppet. i bet she had forgotten what happened, right after she had washed her hands. then, she heard voices, and at the table, she had forgotten it. it appeared like she was sleepy. and i hoped they DIDNT hint at it. just a case of, someone is sleepy. she had been at work all day, figuring out the cure for beckett. and to make sure its good, cause taking him out of stasis, giving him the cure, which doesnt work, and wait for it to work, while it wont, and have him near death in the freezing chamber again, will lead all pro beckett anti keller fans to go berserk. after all, if the treatment WOULNT work, precious time wouldve been wasted. and seeing as everything goes over 100x slower in the freezer, they wouldve had many many more days to figure out, and to make sure its 100% failsafe. because all medical treatments, arent applied if they 100% know for sure they know what the results are.


as to the ending: the entity was quite smart. but it saw the jumper as the cause of the crash, not john, and john , that way, posed no threat. and its odd, cause the creature should only allow beings near, if they are wraith/ hybrids. atleast, thats what i would program it to do. as to radek on the ground not screaming. well, you have just hit the ground really hard, wouldnt you be dizzy?

Mitchell82
July 22nd, 2008, 09:51 AM
Tell that the many people who were left behind on SG-1. Tell that to Elizabeth who was left behind because "it would be too risky" to send a team in to rescue her. What, like she hadn't become close with expedition?
They have left people behind before when the risk was to high. In Weir's case we had no way of successfully pulling off a rescue not without massive casualties. In this case there was at least a small chance of success.


They got lucky. I know that it's Sci-fi and a TV-show but realism is still something one should strive for. Constantly making emotional calls based on nothing but empty theories ("I don't think it'll attack someone with the pathogen inside of them!") and going in blind is stupid. They only manage to do it due to dumb blind luck.
It's more than luck when you have very experienced people that could pull it off.


And these are the people who are supposed to be fighting for the fates of two (now one) galaxies? Yeah... if I were a Pegasian or someone from the IOA, I'd kick their asses for being such dumbasses and risking the lives of tons for the lives of a few when the risk is considerably and you have to rely on sheer dumb luck to win.
They've got more than luck on their side.



"The creature was too stupid to defend itself... despite having shown itself sentient and intelligent just earlier." - That's shoe-horning in an illogical conclusion because they couldn't come up with a good solution, sounds like Deus ex Machina to me.
I disagree.

Reiko
July 22nd, 2008, 02:47 PM
Tell that to Elizabeth who was left behind because "it would be too risky" to send a team in to rescue her. What, like she hadn't become close with expedition?

» All I can do is nod my head in agreement.:weiranime17:


It was weird how the creature was able to subdue Ronon of all people, but not Shep.

» That's because this week it was Shep's time to play Chuck Norris. Wait - that's every week. :mckay:

SG-Lover-SL
July 22nd, 2008, 05:09 PM
The Dr. Jennifer Keller + an unknown alien pathogen?

:eek: Thats a spooky combination... who knows what might have happened :eek: :p :D

FallenAngelII
July 22nd, 2008, 05:41 PM
no, creature was just like every other Stargate enemy..too stupid to defend itself. No matter how powerful it really was, our heroes are always more powerful :rolleyes:
Which is seriously getting on my nerves.

It's not suspension of disbelief (they went way beyond that a while back). It's now suspension of intelligence.


They have left people behind before when the risk was to high. In Weir's case we had no way of successfully pulling off a rescue not without massive casualties. In this case there was at least a small chance of success.
Based on what? Wild guessing?

They knew nothing about it. They didn't even know how big it had grown or if Ronon even had a chance of making it (which he didn't). They had no idea if she could even still be saved.

They went in blind. All they knew was that they had a retrovirus (not another one!) that would kill the pathogen and... that was it.

Meanwhile, this little escapade cost them a portion of the ZPM's (and the power generators') power. That'll be very appreciated when Michael or the new race attack and its insufficient to shield Atlantis.

It's not like they have tons of ZPMs lying around.


It's more than luck when you have very experienced people that could pull it off.
Again, they went in blind.


They've got more than luck on their side.
Not really in this case.

KindlyKeller
July 23rd, 2008, 01:48 AM
So, considering this was clearly explained in the episode, as noted by several people in this thread, I'm going to take a moment to point out something under the radar...

Speaking of "a city full of idiot doctors," I was just wondering where the outcry is for Beckett incorrectly performing CPR in 'The Seed,' since Keller was ripped apart for such things last season.

Or are we finally going to acknowledge that the characters- since their methods are effective on the show- can't be held responsible for the fact that the show's crew and advisers didn't correct Jewel or Paul on their techniques?

FallenAngelII
July 23rd, 2008, 03:47 AM
Or are we finally going to acknowledge that the characters- since their methods are effective on the show- can't be held responsible for the fact that the show's crew and advisers didn't correct Jewel or Paul on their techniques?
Or we could blame them both for not learning how to perform proper CPR. They portray doctors, it should be common sense to learn how to do it properly in order to be able to, you know, do it properly.

Hypochondriac
July 23rd, 2008, 06:11 AM
I got tired of complaining that no doctor on any show does CPR correctly. Will just have to live with it.

KindlyKeller
July 23rd, 2008, 06:52 AM
So, you're saying that 100% culpability belongs to Jewel and Paul for performing it incorrectly? There are people whose sole job it is to make sure things like that go as they're supposed to.

And heck, for all we know, Paul knows how to do it correctly, but got caught up in the scene and simply missed the mark. Someone's supposed to be watching the screen or the actors and say, "Oops. Let's try that again."

Anyway, my general point is: not a peep out of the people who claimed that incorrectly portrayed medical techniques made Keller "a terrible doctor," when Beckett does the exact same thing.

g.o.d
July 23rd, 2008, 08:17 AM
It's more than luck when you have very experienced people that could pull it off.


or absolutely stupid enemies;)

g.o.d
July 23rd, 2008, 08:18 AM
Which is seriously getting on my nerves.

It's not suspension of disbelief (they went way beyond that a while back). It's now suspension of intelligence.


You'll get used to it, like me. The Ori were incredibly stupid, Adria was stupid and absolutely naive. So I don't care anymore.

FallenAngelII
July 23rd, 2008, 08:59 AM
So, you're saying that 100% culpability belongs to Jewel and Paul for performing it incorrectly? There are people whose sole job it is to make sure things like that go as they're supposed to.
I said that when? I merely said that it's Jewel's and Paul's fault as well. They're not solely responsible, there are others. But they're not free from any wrongdoing, either.


And heck, for all we know, Paul knows how to do it correctly, but got caught up in the scene and simply missed the mark. Someone's supposed to be watching the screen or the actors and say, "Oops. Let's try that again."
Yes, a lot of people did wrong. Or they just didn't care about authenticity as I hear real CPR can break ribs.


Anyway, my general point is: not a peep out of the people who claimed that incorrectly portrayed medical techniques made Keller "a terrible doctor," when Beckett does the exact same thing.
It's called "Being a biased fan".

KindlyKeller
July 23rd, 2008, 11:57 AM
I said that when? I merely said that it's Jewel's and Paul's fault as well. They're not solely responsible, there are others. But they're not free from any wrongdoing, either.



But... you didn't say "as well" anywhere, actually.

Direct quote:
"Or we could blame them both for not learning how to perform proper CPR. They portray doctors, it should be common sense to learn how to do it properly in order to be able to, you know, do it properly."

'As well' didn't appear at all. Every word there refers to the actors.

Regardless, you're right that they share in the culpability. I'm just saying, there's supposed to be mechanisms in place to catch that, and they're apparently not working.

And totally irrespective of all of that, it's silly for people to somehow think it reflects on the character, rather than the actor and crew (you didn't do that here -- it's just what happens generally).

FallenAngelII
July 23rd, 2008, 01:08 PM
"Or we could blame them both for not learning how to perform proper CPR. They portray doctors, it should be common sense to learn how to do it properly in order to be able to, you know, do it properly."

'As well' didn't appear at all. Every word there refers to the actors.
Using the same brand of logic, I never said "Solely the fault of Jewel and Paul" either. I blame everyone for that miss. Every single person who should've known better.


Regardless, you're right that they share in the culpability. I'm just saying, there's supposed to be mechanisms in place to catch that, and they're apparently not working.
Yes, I blame everyone responsible.


And totally irrespective of all of that, it's silly for people to somehow think it reflects on the character, rather than the actor and crew (you didn't do that here -- it's just what happens generally).
Well, it's a show. We're supposed to, you know, take it for canon. If someone makes a mistake on the show, it'll be assumed it's canon that the character made that mistake.

jenks
July 23rd, 2008, 01:47 PM
Or we could blame them both for not learning how to perform proper CPR. They portray doctors, it should be common sense to learn how to do it properly in order to be able to, you know, do it properly.

Yes we should, although as I've observed, most anti-Keller sentiment is really fierce pro-Beckett sentiment, so good luck with that.

KindlyKeller
July 24th, 2008, 02:30 AM
Using the same brand of logic, I never said "Solely the fault of Jewel and Paul" either. I blame everyone for that miss. Every single person who should've known better.


That's extremely weak logic. If you only discuss Jewel and Paul, why are we supposed to infer that you hold others responsible too, when you make no mention of them? Especially when you claim afterwards to use a phrase that you didn't.



Well, it's a show. We're supposed to, you know, take it for canon. If someone makes a mistake on the show, it'll be assumed it's canon that the character made that mistake.

Except that, as long as we're talking canon -- in the Stargate universe, that's just how CPR is done. It's not as if they're cracking the ribs of the patients they're working on. Since their patients respond positively to what they're doing, there's no argument to be made that the character is making a mistake within the show's fictional panorama.

stclare
July 24th, 2008, 02:51 AM
Wether the cpr etc was done correctly or not, didnt bother me. it looked real as far as im concerned. im not a doctor or the first aider where i work so dont realy have a base of reference to compare it to - apart from other tv shows and it looked ok.

i wouldnt ever think to use what i see doctors (or physisits for that matter) doing on screen in a real life situation.

the things that irk me more are the emotions that are/not shown by the doctors on screen, thats where i look to the bedside manner to see how good of a doctor they are and wether the actor/actress has pulled that off is what i find important.

FallenAngelII
July 24th, 2008, 03:33 AM
That's extremely weak logic. If you only discuss Jewel and Paul, why are we supposed to infer that you hold others responsible too, when you make no mention of them? Especially when you claim afterwards to use a phrase that you didn't.
I made a mistake. I apologize.


Except that, as long as we're talking canon -- in the Stargate universe, that's just how CPR is done. It's not as if they're cracking the ribs of the patients they're working on. Since their patients respond positively to what they're doing, there's no argument to be made that the character is making a mistake within the show's fictional panorama.
If a show says something, it's the truth (within the show)?

So if someone shakes Teyla's baby violently and no one reacts, it's safe to shake babies in SGverse? The show is supposedly taking place in modern times, in a universe where everything is pretty much the same as in the real world, only there's a Stargate and aliens and stuff.

How CPR works doesn't magically change just because they don't do it properly on the show.

Cautious Explorer
July 24th, 2008, 06:19 AM
Wether the cpr etc was done correctly or not, didnt bother me. it looked real as far as im concerned. im not a doctor or the first aider where i work so dont realy have a base of reference to compare it to - apart from other tv shows and it looked ok.

i wouldnt ever think to use what i see doctors (or physisits for that matter) doing on screen in a real life situation.

the things that irk me more are the emotions that are/not shown by the doctors on screen, thats where i look to the bedside manner to see how good of a doctor they are and wether the actor/actress has pulled that off is what i find important.

I agree. Give me a reasonable facsimile of a medical procedure while the character delivers it with confidence and authority, and I'll be happy. But if there's something about the character that makes me wonder about their qualifications, then I'm more likely to pick up on things that don't look quite right.

FallenAngelII
July 24th, 2008, 06:28 AM
Stuff.
But they're playing a character. It shouldn't just look authentic and believable, it should be authentic and realistic.

So it's OK as long as those with no deeper knowledge on the field can get duped into believing it's correct? What about those who know what real CPR looks like? What about those who know how physics work? What about those who know how guns work, the laws of physics, science, history, language, etc., etc., etc.?

Is it OK for an actor to speak gibberish as long as people who don't speak German know that he's not really speaking German? They're paid to play a role. They should do the research and learn how to play it properly. That said, there are other people paid to keep track of that the actors are doing things right. They should do their jobs as well.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Which is seriously getting on my nerves.

It's not suspension of disbelief (they went way beyond that a while back). It's now suspension of intelligence.
I disagree.



Based on what? Wild guessing?

They knew nothing about it. They didn't even know how big it had grown or if Ronon even had a chance of making it (which he didn't). They had no idea if she could even still be saved.

They went in blind. All they knew was that they had a retrovirus (not another one!) that would kill the pathogen and... that was it.

Meanwhile, this little escapade cost them a portion of the ZPM's (and the power generators') power. That'll be very appreciated when Michael or the new race attack and its insufficient to shield Atlantis.

It's not like they have tons of ZPMs lying around.


Again, they went in blind.


Not really in this case.

Well we will have to agree to disagree.

JohnDuh
July 25th, 2008, 12:08 PM
More idiocy. Zelenka lying on the ground not screaming for Teyla to hurry up while sentient vines are preparing to strangle him or something.


It briefly knocked him out, and Teyla was there at once.

JohnDuh
July 25th, 2008, 12:14 PM
yeah, I forgot, some fans allow only positive comments here on GW.

No, but whiny hysterics from people with a teenage mentality is mostly just a waste of everybodies time.

LoneStar1836
July 25th, 2008, 05:59 PM
But they're playing a character. It shouldn't just look authentic and believable, it should be authentic and realistic.I agree with that when it comes to certain things like your example of speaking another real language, etc. You don't just toss gibberish out there because you are too lazy to learn the correct way to speak a couple of lines in another language.

But then I disagree when it comes to real procedures like CPR. I would in no way ever want them to actually correctly perform CPR on a real person who didn't need it. That in no way should be completely authentic. :S Except for the compression to breath ratio for the specific situation as well as the hand placement. And in some cases the placement of the body cuz I've seen some shows where they have the person sitting up and in all kinds of weird incorrect positions that would just totally invalidate any proper CPR. lol.

I agree that they could have definitely faked it in a more realistic way, but I don't want to see the real thing performed on a person who doesn't need it because it bruises and often fractures bones as well as possible messing with the heart.

I had to laugh at Carson performing that so called CPR. lol. Man, it just yanked me right out of that scene.

I've never done it on a real person, but I have been trained to do CPR, though my certification is not up to date, but I have performed in on dummies. And geez that was just awful faking in The Seed. I've seen better.

DragonLadyK
July 25th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Not to put too fine a point on things, but keep in mind the Seed was using Keller as a host. She's not exactly what I'd call a strategist (Missing, Search and Rescue) or really perceptive (Quarantine, The Seed).

A Baby Hive with that to work with really wouldn't stand much chance of realizing that the Jumper wasn't a discrete unit and that while the Jumper took no hostile action after crashing, the thing that came out of the Jumper was, in fact, harmful. That would also explain why Zelenka (who isn't classically attractive and who Keller dislikes) was attacked right away with enough viciousness to daze and concuss whereas Shep and Ronon (who are classically attractive and Keller does like) were able to pass freely until they did something actively harmful.

As for the CPR thing -- for the sake of the actor on bottom's comfort and safety, I tend to give them a free pass on that.

DragonLady

LuxFestinus
July 26th, 2008, 05:29 AM
"The creature was too stupid to defend itself... despite having shown itself sentient and intelligent just earlier." - That's shoe-horning in an illogical conclusion because they couldn't come up with a good solution, sounds like Deus ex Machina to me.

No one here has raised the possibility that the creature may have been disoriented from having a jumper crash through a huge portion of it. Not one. Makes me wonder about the critical thinking skills of some of you folks.

Cautious Explorer
July 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Not to put too fine a point on things, but keep in mind the Seed was using Keller as a host. She's not exactly what I'd call a strategist (Missing, Search and Rescue) or really perceptive (Quarantine, The Seed).

A Baby Hive with that to work with really wouldn't stand much chance of realizing that the Jumper wasn't a discrete unit and that while the Jumper took no hostile action after crashing, the thing that came out of the Jumper was, in fact, harmful. That would also explain why Zelenka (who isn't classically attractive and who Keller dislikes) was attacked right away with enough viciousness to daze and concuss whereas Shep and Ronon (who are classically attractive and Keller does like) were able to pass freely until they did something actively harmful.

As for the CPR thing -- for the sake of the actor on bottom's comfort and safety, I tend to give them a free pass on that.

DragonLady

I love your thoughts! Imagine how scary that thing could have been if it had taken Ronon as a host.

Mitchell82
July 27th, 2008, 10:14 AM
No one here has raised the possibility that the creature may have been disoriented from having a jumper crash through a huge portion of it. Not one. Makes me wonder about the critical thinking skills of some of you folks.

Actaully I've tried but no one listens.:(

GoSpikey
July 28th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Poor Mitchell... :(

*Hug*

Pic
July 28th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Well, I think perhaps the seed/creature/thing was disoriented by the jumper crashing and isn't to blame for being a doctor who can't perform CPR at all...
.... huh?

I've lost the point of this conversation, apparently, but find myself not caring too much.

Greening Mitchell because that's the point I'm able to follow. :D

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Well, I think perhaps the seed/creature/thing was disoriented by the jumper crashing and isn't to blame for being a doctor who can't perform CPR at all...
.... huh?

I've lost the point of this conversation, apparently, but find myself not caring too much.
I know the feeling.;)


Greening Mitchell because that's the point I'm able to follow. :D
I love green!;)