Hive ships, Clones, The Wraith War and ZPMs

[RepliVeggie]

Ok already we know the Wraith were able to get there hands on a few ZPMs to grow clone armies.

Tonight we learned how Hive Ships are made.

I dunno if anyone else put this together but, I believe with the use of a ZPM for a ships source of power when growing they were probably able to grow ships at a much much faster rate. After "Spoils of War" people assumed that some how the Wraith grew ships faster as well with the ZPMs. I as always under the impression that the Wraith would build a ships systems, ie. weapons, engines life support and whatever else and grew the ships hull and interior around those systems. Tonight's episode pretty much confirmed this for me. If left alone I am pretty sure a super hive would have grown around the city of Atlantis.

So know we know how the Wraith were able to defeat the Ancients. I have never subscribed to the idea that the Ancients simply were bad at war. That they didn't know how to fight. Now we know. After fighting a winning war for 100 years or more a simple act, one that could not have been for seen lost them the war. Any race that was facing a unending army would eventually lose or have to withdraw like the Ancients did. For decades they destroyed Wraith ship after Wraith ship until likely their drones were depleted at which time I believe they decided to return to Earth to either give up on Pegasus or reorganize and head back.

[Ouroboros]

Honestly with what this episode showed us about the rate, and more importantly ease, at which these things can grow it's something of a mystery why there's said to be 60 of them as opposed to 60 million.

All you need is a human (or possibly Wraith drone) host and a bit of power and you can make a ship. So why aren't the Wraith making huge swarms of hiveships again for these latest wars of theirs.

You don't even need a ZPM either, that just makes it faster. Woolsey even said in this episode that it was likely that it would keep growing even if they shut all the power off. It did afterall start growing without access to any source of power other than what it could pull from Keller's body. Then it just plugged itself into the basic electrical system and started spreading over multiple levels in a matter of hours before it even reached that main power conduit.

This episode makes it look like all you'll need to grow Wraith ships is a starting host and some marginal source of power, possibly even a small reactor or just a planet close to a star. Granted though the more power you do have available the faster you can make it grow. Power that could easily be provided by the vast reactors of an already mature hiveship or cruiser.

The only question that remains is how do they make the mechanical parts and does a hive really need the mechanical parts at all. This episode seems to suggest that the whole thing can grow on it's own, meaning either it can grow the parts as well somehow (Beckett mentioned it had some metallic characteristics) or they're not strictly necessary to it functioning.

I can't see any reason here why you couldn't just land a hiveship or cruiser in a big open field somewhere, spread around a bunch of "seeds" connect them all together, maybe supply them with some basic raw materials like metals and what not to eat and have an entire fleet in what, a month or two.

The method of reproduction the ships use enables essentially exponential growth. It's potentially faster than the way the Wraith reproduce once it gets going, even with the cloning facility.

There must be some other requirement because if it really was this easy to grow complete hiveships the Wraith are a lot more powerful and impossible to stop than they ever seem to let on. Perhaps the knowledge of how to do it is only held by a small number of Wraith queens or hive keepers? Maybe Michael improved the process somehow with more genetic engineering?

[Kebab Gud]

So.. she was growing a Hive.. but was she also turning into a Queen?
that that where the Queens come from?
if so.. that would explain why there are no more then 60 hives..
No queen would ever OK the creation of another Queen

[SGFerrit]

Honestly with what this episode showed us about the rate, and more importantly ease, at which these things can grow it's something of a mystery why there's said to be 60 of them as opposed to 60 million.

All you need is a human (or possibly Wraith drone) host and a bit of power and you can make a ship. So why aren't the Wraith making huge swarms of hiveships again for these latest wars of theirs.
...

Perhaps the knowledge of how to do it is only held by a small number of Wraith queens or hive keepers? Maybe Michael improved the process somehow with more genetic engineering?

Well, the whole 60 hives thing was not long after they work up. Considering how many of their ships must have been wiped out by now... We have seen 14 destroyed, and god only knows how many have been destroyed in the civil war or how many the Asurans managed to destroy when they were at war with the Wraith for a few months. It is likely that more than half would be destroyed, rather easily. Before they were woken up early they didn't need more as they weren't opposed, but now I expect the Wraith are indeed making more. However there are likely a number of variables, Queens for instance. Kebab's speculation that Keller was being turned into a Wraith Queen is very interesting/plausible, and the stuff you came up with about Michael's improved process/sharing of information is interesting and feasible too.

Again, we get some answers, yet we are left with even more questions Shows like doing that these days. I'm looking forward to The Queen, apparently we learn about Wraith Politics and stuff in that episode so perhaps we will learn more about this sort of stuff too. I'm happy they didn't give everything about Hives and their construction process away in The Seed, I like that they are giving us bits of information but not giving everything away about them.

[puddle_jumper5]

i dont think she was turning into a QUEEN cos then sheppord and macaky were all infected and last time i checked they were male? lol

as for no more than 60 hives- although the ships have a metaliorganic hull (a tisue with high metalic content) they need things like computers and engines and powersources and wepons and and and (list goes on)


they said it was like the SHELL of a beetle- the shell, ie not the body or the legs- only the hull

so thats why there are only 60 hives- which is a massive number when you think what each one is capable of (it would take only one to cull earth)

plus- does it not seem more likely that it sprouts pods which develope into wraith darts- and WERE DO THE SEEDS COME FROM ANYWAY?

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

One has to remember that at minimum there were 60 hives, Grodin did say 60 or more so personally I wouldnt stick to the figure of saying "There are only 60 Hiveships in the galaxy, thats all".

[Buba uognarf]

I also don't see why everyone assumes the Wraith haven't built more. This does clear up the plot hole of how a ZPM powering a clone facility could sway the tide of war against the Ancients. With the virtually 'limitless' power of several ZPMs they could accelerate the growth of their ships exponentially.

The growth of the organism wasn't random as it had a goal. Maybe it grows into a certain shape which is then filled in by other components like weapons and hyperdrives. Or it could be grown around an existing shell including all the gadgets and technology.

[FallenAngelII]

Well, the whole 60 hives thing was not long after they work up. <snip>

There were 60 Hives back in season 1, when we'd barely destroyed any ships and the civil war hadn't really broken out yet.

[Livestick]

i dont think she was turning into a QUEEN cos then sheppord and macaky were all infected and last time i checked they were male?

Maybe infected females turn into queens and males turn into something like that big Wraith from "Sateda."

[rien]

didnt todd or some wraith say that the keepers were responsible for maintaining the fleet? could be that only the keepers had the knowledge of working cloning facilities/creating hive ships etcetera

that would explain why the wraith arent mass producing cloned warriors/building ships cause it was also said the keepers left their posts/made their own alliances? so now maybe only a couple of hives have keepers and thus the knowledge required to expand their fleet whilst the rest are desperately trying to figure it out.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

I also don't see why everyone assumes the Wraith haven't built more. This does clear up the plot hole of how a ZPM powering a clone facility could sway the tide of war against the Ancients. With the virtually 'limitless' power of several ZPMs they could accelerate the growth of their ships exponentially.

The growth of the organism wasn't random as it had a goal. Maybe it grows into a certain shape which is then filled in by other components like weapons and hyperdrives. Or it could be grown around an existing shell including all the gadgets and technology.

To me, I think that certain components are placed at a location such as hyperdrive, weaponry and other mechanical components and the seed is placed and takes form. Either that or things like the hyperdrive have the bio-hull growing around it after which other compenents like weapons are added once its complete.

I think personally that the Keepers are placed in order to direct growth of the developing ship in order to produce say darts or cruisers or any other ship. Its an interesting approach really.

[jenks]

The 60 Hives thing was just speculation on Grodin's part, they never actually knew how many other Hives there were.

[Xaeden]

The problem as I perceive it is that there's a lack of Wraith to man these ships right now. And even if place a smaller portion of Wraith on a new Hive (which we've seen them do in 'Misbegotten' - that one Hive didn't have a full compliment for whatever reason) you have to trust someone to command it. With how quick they are to break up into fractions and do their own thing, that very well could lead to one of your underlings becoming your enemy.

[Cory Holmes]

It's also a matter of logistics. You build a brand-new hive ship, yay for you! Now you have to feed it, power it, crew it, launch it, maintain it, provise for the troops and crew... as any homeowner can attest to, once you have it is only the beginning

Also, at the time of S1 the Wraith had little need for a gigantic fleet. They were the undespuited Heavyweight Champions of the galaxy. The Lantians were a memory and the Atlantians were barely bugs on their viewscreens. Now that we have the Big D on our side, plus fractional fighting by way of the civil war, I imagine new hives are under growth all over the place for any faction that can afford them.

[Mister Oragahn]

We still need to see where they build the skyscrapper large and high structures seen on hiveships. Look at Siege part III when the Daedalus flies under the belly of a hiveship, you'll understand.
Growing stuff isn't enough, but Stargate is incredibly reluctant to show any single sort of decent shipyard, safe for Earth. Even for the Lantians, what we had at best was a cramped hangar in Inferno.