Dumb decision? (ep 5x01 spoilers)

[Wyrminarrd]

This thread contains spoilers for episode 5x01 so don´t read further unless you don´t mind.






In the episode when the Daedalus arraived at the planet should it have simply destroyed Michaels ship? From my point of view they took an incredibly risky and stupid decision when confronted with the option of either A) Destroy the wraith cruiser though that meant Teylas death or B) lower shields so that they could get the two survivors but risk the entire ship in the process!!!!!!!!!!! This stupidity is compounded when you consider that Teyla would die anyway if Michael escaped or won the day.

I find it difficult to believe that a military commander would put everyone under his command in such risk just to save one or two people, especially when losing the one would mean that a dangerous mass murderer like Michael was taken out as well.

Now I understand that from the shows point of view they couldn´t very well have the good guys kill one of the main characters (a pregnant one at that) but in real life it seems like that would have been the "right" thing to do. It´s an ugly decision, one that would propably torment those taking it, but considering that it could mean the difference between life or death of millions (should M escape he would certainly pose a threat to millions). Would any of us argue against shooting down a plane that´s been taken over by terrorists and was heading for a city even if the plane was filled with civilians? This is the same scenario only on a much larger scale.

In the show they showed no casualties on the Daedalus or in the F-302´s but let´s face at least some of them would have died in a fight like that, were those lifes less important then Teylas? For the show the answer is yes but in real life?

So my question to you all is simple, would you have done the same thing as the show did or would you have destroyed the ship? (obviously not knowing a head of time how things would turn out )

[LtColCarter]

First, when you're posting spoilers...use spoiler tags to hide it...don't simply say there's a spoiler and spaced down a bit.

2nd this is science FICTION...and its well established in the Stargate universe that they don't leave their people behind. We've seen over 11 years of this.

3rd I think your comparison to the 9/11 attacks on NYC are in poor taste.

This thread contains spoilers for episode 5x01 so don´t read further unless you don´t mind.






In the episode when the Daedalus arraived at the planet should it have simply destroyed Michaels ship? From my point of view they took an incredibly risky and stupid decision when confronted with the option of either A) Destroy the wraith cruiser though that meant Teylas death or B) lower shields so that they could get the two survivors but risk the entire ship in the process!!!!!!!!!!! This stupidity is compounded when you consider that Teyla would die anyway if Michael escaped or won the day.

I find it difficult to believe that a military commander would put everyone under his command in such risk just to save one or two people, especially when losing the one would mean that a dangerous mass murderer like Michael was taken out as well.

Now I understand that from the shows point of view they couldn´t very well have the good guys kill one of the main characters (a pregnant one at that) but in real life it seems like that would have been the "right" thing to do. It´s an ugly decision, one that would propably torment those taking it, but considering that it could mean the difference between life or death of millions (should M escape he would certainly pose a threat to millions). Would any of us argue against shooting down a plane that´s been taken over by terrorists and was heading for a city even if the plane was filled with civilians? This is the same scenario only on a much larger scale.

In the show they showed no casualties on the Daedalus or in the F-302´s but let´s face at least some of them would have died in a fight like that, were those lifes less important then Teylas? For the show the answer is yes but in real life?

So my question to you all is simple, would you have done the same thing as the show did or would you have destroyed the ship? (obviously not knowing a head of time how things would turn out )

[Iguana775]

The only thing I thought was dumb was not taking out the hive weapons before dropping shields.

[Integrabyte]

The only thing I thought was dumb was not taking out the hive weapons before dropping shields.

Was there a hive and I missed it?

[Wyrminarrd]

First, when you're posting spoilers...use spoiler tags to hide it...don't simply say there's a spoiler and spaced down a bit.

2nd this is science FICTION...and its well established in the Stargate universe that they don't leave their people behind. We've seen over 11 years of this.

3rd I think your comparison to the 9/11 attacks on NYC are in poor taste.

It has spoilers in the name of the thread, that alone should be enough and I only included the spoiler warning at the start as an extra warning in case someone ignored that.

As for the supposed 9/11 comparison it was actually an executive decision comparison (the type the president would most likely have to make in the US), one that highlights the need to put the safe being of innocent people who´s lives can certainly be safed over those of lives that are by no means certain that they can be saved.

I know that the Stargate universe does things like this, I even said that from the shows point of view this was right but the question was whether or not this would be the right thing to do IRL.

[Xaeden]

What I find interesting is that Caldwell went along with it so easily. It's definitely a change of pace from his past self. I mean I get where Sheppard coming from. He puts the idea of missing personnel on this pedestal and so to him they have a responsibility to go after them no matter what the risk. I can't figure out Caldwell though. He's mellowed from that person who refused to risk his ship and his people for Ronon and I wonder if it's because he's started to agree with them, stopped trying to fight them, or perhaps it has something to do with Carter being the one doing the pushing this time (as opposed to Sheppard/Weir).

I disagree with you that he should've just blown up the ship though. As long as there was any hope to get Telya back it was the right decision to try and disable the Cruiser. But lowering the shields for two people was rather odd. Michael already had a hostage and if they were going to get her back they could've gotten Ronon and Sheppard back at the same time. So risking putting the Daedalus out of action served no real purpose then. The whole thing just seemed like a forced way to disable the Daedalus so that they could build tension. However, they shouldn't have had to lower the shields to begin with and they shouldn't have actually done it. In my opinion, they should've tried to further disable the Cruiser and then tried to board it. They could've done it in secret just the same when the darts returned with Sheppard and Ronon.

Although it might not have even been necessary to rescue anybody but Telya from the Cruiser. Had they taken a couple more minutes to first try to disable the Cruiser's weapons, it might've been possible to safely beam them off the planet. Caldwell had no idea how close the hybrids were so to be on the safe side they should've worked on the assumption that perhaps they had more time. Although that wasn't the case, a couple of minutes wouldn't have hurt. Sheppard and Ronon would buy themselves some time by firing until the hybrids were able to stun them. Then it would take the hybrids a little longer to drag them out and into the open where they can be swooped up by a dart. Anytime before then they could've been beamed out and it should've been plenty of time to launch a 302 attack against the Hive (which didn't have all the darts it launched on the surface nearby as they did during the actual 302 attack which might've made it easier if Michael was understaffed) or try disabling them with the Daedalus' still functioning weapons.

[Stormtrooper]

Whoever watched Be All My Sins Remembered knows SG producers and writers can't deliver consistent space battles despite spending lots and lots of money on special effects and such. It's hilarious.

And you're right about Caldwell. They are transforming the guy into a pansy just so he can fit the plot.

[jenks]

I think theres a different between not doing something, and not being able to. Though if you're referring to the strength of the Asuran ships, that's already been explained.

[Integrabyte]

Both Caldwell and the shield were a plot device.

[x303]

yeah we have all seen that they dont like to leave ppl behind. even if theres a chance they can save them.

also someone else was right in that they should have taken out the weapons 1st but it ruins the fabric of the story line...

in that. if they took out the weapons 1st with the 302. by the time shepard got to the main bridge the darts wud have already been deployed and then they wudnt have a way in to the cruiser.

[Jackie]

yeah we have all seen that they dont like to leave ppl behind. even if theres a chance they can save them.

They don't? Are we watching the same show. They left Weir behind...sheppard had no problems doing that. Never even fired a shot at the replicators flanking her.

Then...rescue effort? I must of missed it cause I don't remember one.

[Xaeden]

in that. if they took out the weapons 1st with the 302. by the time shepard got to the main bridge the darts wud have already been deployed and then they wudnt have a way in to the cruiser.

Well persumably they would've had to board the Cruiser without Sheppard or blast their way in. If they launched a 302 attack to take out the Cruiser's weapons and then beamed Sheppard out safely they would've had three opportunities to send a jumper in. First when they came out, then when they went back in, and again when the jumpers on the surface returned to the Cruiser.

Of course, all the darts would've already been safely back on the Cruiser by the time Sheppard talked his way into being involved so they would've had to act without him in such a scenario. Which unfortunately means we would've lost the whole part about Sheppard personally needing to make sure he saved Telya. But they still could've done it by instead having Sheppard convince them to blast through the dart bay doors and attack with force rather than sneak in with a small party. All they would've had to do send enough people over on the jumpers so they could get the jamming technology turned off. Then they could beam everybody off, including Telya. Meanwhile, one person would stay with each jumper so they could fly them home.

They don't? Are we watching the same show. They left Weir behind...sheppard had no problems doing that. Never even fired a shot at the replicators flanking her.

Then...rescue effort? I must of missed it cause I don't remember one.

To be fair Sheppard had a huge problem with it. He only did it because he was ordered to and deep down knew that she was right about none of them being able to get out if he tried to get them all out. So he ran, (after Ronon strongly prodded him and it was finally clear that Weir's control dying) while hoping to come back for her. In the following episode we see that he had been fighting the IOA to try to let him do just that and even tried to convince Carter to back him. But ultimately nobody would let him go and I suspect he wasn't foolish enough to think he could get her back by using the Stargate (he probably wanted them to let him go there on the Apollo so he could launch a cloaked jumper to the planet). Plus although he disobeyed orders to rescue people before Atlantis started, he has not done so in the series. Even in Rising, he fought to convince Weir to let him go and seemed like he would reluctantly have gone along with her had they not found the jumpers.

[Wyrminarrd]

Well persumably they would've had to board the Cruiser without Sheppard or blast their way in. If they launched a 302 attack to take out the Cruiser's weapons and then beamed Sheppard out safely they would've had three opportunities to send a jumper in. First when they came out, then when they went back in, and again when the jumpers on the surface returned to the Cruiser.

Of course, all the darts would've already been safely back on the Cruiser by the time Sheppard talked his way into being involved so they would've had to act without him in such a scenario. Which unfortunately means we would've lost the whole part about Sheppard personally needing to make sure he saved Telya. But they still could've done it by instead having Sheppard convince them to blast through the dart bay doors and attack with force rather than sneak in with a small party. All they would've had to do send enough people over on the jumpers so they could get the jamming technology turned off. Then they could beam everybody off, including Telya. Meanwhile, one person would stay with each jumper so they could fly them home.

The problem with attacking in force is that it puts Michael in the posistion of having to point a gun at Teylas head... And given that this is Michael I believe he would pull the trigger (of course the writers would somehow prevent this but that would just be another gimmick of theirs).

[Xaeden]

The problem with attacking in force is that it puts Michael in the posistion of having to point a gun at Teylas head... And given that this is Michael I believe he would pull the trigger (of course the writers would somehow prevent this but that would just be another gimmick of theirs).

He probably would if backed into a corner. But, again, the idea is to get in and out. You send three cloaked jumpers up to the Cruiser, blow the dart bay door, and send them in. At this point there's still shock throughout the ship so they will able to land and split up without must resistance. Then it's just a matter of getting Mckay to terminal so he can turn off the jamming technology. During this time Michael will either try to fight them off, make off with a jumper, or go to Telya and be ready to use her a hostage. But, in the case of the latter, he will make the mistake of thinking they will be coming for her, when really their plan is to beam her out (worst case scenario he grabs onto her and is taken along for the ride - unless he has more than a stunner, which has not been shown to be the case, he will have no chance of living through that). Although knowing what the writers have planned for the follow up episode I'd assume they'd go with him managing to make off with a jumper at some point or another. Besides Telya's baby being born on the Cruiser with Mckay's help you can achieve all the same major points (Sheppard having to be the one to rescue her and Michael stealing a jumper) without that whole Daedalus taking their shields down mess. I liked the episode as the whole, but that one aspect gnaws at me greatly.

[x303]

they cudnt really blast their way in though. coz it was a stealth mission. if they blasted in they wud have got much more resistence and they wud of got teyla straight away. u see how pissed michael was when he realised they're inside.

beaming them out wasn't the original plan. it was get in and out stealth like. dont wanna leave a PJ behind if u don't have too. once the jumper was gone it was like destroy the jammers 1 plan, darts another.

ur right in that there wasn't just only 1 point they cud have got in. but i rekon thats the only point where they knew they cud definetly do it timing wise. to b sure to have enough time to grab teyla and get out before michael get hyperdrive repaired and does one.

how cool was it when michaels ship failed hyperdrive?