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Alipeeps
July 20th, 2008, 12:18 PM
Major Lauren?! OMG! The virus does make Wraith queens!! And if you're a man, it changes your sex first so you become a woman!!! :eek:

:lol:

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 12:19 PM
It's much easier not to accidentally spell something else if you spell tentacle correctly with an a not an i... ;) :D [/grammar snarkage]

Oh yeah...right,....It'd certainly help if i spelt it right in the first place........Well i'm blaming it on tiredness seeing as i didn't go to bed till 5 in the morning :o Well that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it :p

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Major Lauren?! OMG! The virus does make Wraith queens!! And if you're a man, it changes your sex first so you become a woman!!! :eek:

:lol:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...........My poor Major baby :eek:

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 12:34 PM
» Lorne is a woman now? My Lorne? :eek: I must cure him with eye!sex now! :P

jelgate
July 20th, 2008, 12:47 PM
» Lorne is a woman now? My Lorne? :eek: I must cure him with eye!sex now! :PI think I'm going to be sick

BerrySciFi
July 20th, 2008, 12:48 PM
It all makes sense now. So THAT'S why John, or should I say Joan, refused to take his/her shirt off for the CPR scene. Good girl! I don't watch sci fi for the nude scenes!

Pegasus_SGA
July 20th, 2008, 01:17 PM
It all makes sense now. So THAT'S why John, or should I say Joan, refused to take his/her shirt off for the CPR scene. Good girl! I don't watch sci fi for the nude scenes!

Well we're nekkid coming in, we should be nekkid going out. ;) Well one of them should anyway. Lalalalalala :D And it makes sense if you think about it, I mean what if they had to shock him, wouldn't want the clothes catching fire now would we? ;) So that's my reasons and i'm sticking to them. :D

Linzi
July 20th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Its not just the UK. I have heard simliar things for US medical professionals.When a male tenticle and a femal tenticle love each other very much...
Awwww! The tentacles give each other special cuddles? ;)

Not even! :eek: If it were just two happy tentacles in love, it wouldn't be so disturbing... :lol:
Awww! The wuve each other? :D

I have personal (and painful) experience with how easily ribs can be fractured or cracked.:( No need to do that to an actor (or anyone else, for that matter), if it can be avoided.
Ouch! No kidding! :eek:

Good think you were able to spell it 'tenticle' twice! Cos it's easy to give it another spelling.

*Doesn't imagine them rubbing over each other, feeling each other out...*

:S :S :S

Great, that.

:o
Ok, so tentacle is spelt with an 'a' not an 'i'. Because I saw tenticle and my mind went somewhere it shouldn't! :eek:

Trust me, you don't want to know. :S When I first heard the term, hentai, I couldn't leave well enough alone and had to satisfy my curiosity - and then wished I hadn't. :lol:

Anyway, back to The Seed. I enjoyed it, not as much as Search and Rescue, but I enjoyed it. It served as a good introduction to Woolsey as leader and it was great to see Teyla and Carson back in action. And, it was great to see Zelenka for the first time this season.
Ok, so now I'm REALLY curious!

You...you were speechless? Really?

Wow. ;)



Are you being sarcastic? ;)

I don't know if it were right or wrong (I'm not a doctor), but it was sure entertaining, and that's what counts.



:p



You...shouldn't ask. Trust me.

Just, never ever google it. ;)

Ok, google it is then! :D


Edit: So I now wish I hadn't googled it! :eek: I'm too young for that sort of thing...or is it too naive? :lol:

GoSpikey
July 20th, 2008, 01:52 PM
How on earth did this whole subject start :S :rolleyes:

Jelgate did it, for me...

And let's pray to Gawd that I will never ever have to say that again... :S

*Goes to wash herself*


PG15 mentioned it in his review and Linzi made a mention of it in her reply. I should mention I am completely innocent http://bestsmileys.com/angles/5.gif

Miss-speller. :P


It's much easier not to accidentally spell something else if you spell tentacle correctly with an a not an i... [/grammar snarkage]

Jelgate again... :P


every one keeps asking if this is how a queen is made . Did any one catch that Major Lauren was showing singes as well stated be wolsey when talking to john in his room I think it was.

Did she? :eek:

I wouldn't have mind seeing 'them' with tentacles sprouting out of their skull... :o


Major Lauren?! OMG! The virus does make Wraith queens!! And if you're a man, it changes your sex first so you become a woman!!! :eek:

:lol:

Hey? That's probably one of the cheapest ways out there to become a female! :D


Oh yeah...right,....It'd certainly help if i spelt it right in the first place........Well i'm blaming it on tiredness seeing as i didn't go to bed till 5 in the morning :o Well that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it :p

Don't blame it on that, blame it on Jelgate. He started going too far. :o


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...........My poor Major baby :eek:

:lol:


» Lorne is a woman now? My Lorne? :eek: I must cure him with eye!sex now! :P

Bwahaha. There she goes.


It all makes sense now. So THAT'S why John, or should I say Joan, refused to take his/her shirt off for the CPR scene. Good girl! I don't watch sci fi for the nude scenes!

:lol:


Edit: So I now wish I hadn't googled it! I'm too young for that sort of thing...or is it too naive?

*Doesn't Google...* :o

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Edit: So I now wish I hadn't googled it! :eek: I'm too young for that sort of thing...or is it too naive? :lol:


Young, of course. ;)

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Jelgate did it, for me...

And let's pray to Gawd that I will never ever have to say that again... :S

*Goes to wash herself*

:eek: Oh that sounds wrong in so many ways :S



Don't blame it on that, blame it on Jelgate. He started going too far. :o

Ok then....It's Jelgate's fault :p

jelgate
July 20th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Why do people always blame their gross minds one me:(

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Why do people always blame their gross minds one me:(

Just because we can :D

Anyway what is it with this forum today :rolleyes:

And i looked up google too.............Why oh why can't we control our curiosity.,.....I'll never be the same again :S

Amalthea
July 20th, 2008, 02:35 PM
I just saw it and loved it! Picardo is so great as Woolsey, and as much as I love Carter, I think I'm going to enjoy him being there.

I think the new table is a good idea, since before they were all so spread out before with that arched one. This allows for the potential for some cool interactions, and you can see more than one person on a close up. Plus, it's a nice table. LOL

Keller talking about how Rodney surprises her was sweet, as was Rodney's volunteering to go get her, albeit somewhat after the other two. If I were Jen, though, I'd want Ronon coming to get me out of the three of them.

Woolsey's crisis of faith was great. Life's a little tougher on the ground than behind a desk.

I also think they should consider installing airbags if John's going to make a habit of crashing jumpers like that.

I like getting back to some wraith development too. That's a dang creepy way of growing your ships if you ask me! I wonder who or what the Wraith usually use to get the whole process going.

Overall, awesome! Next week also looks awesome! I love Atlantis!

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Wow what can I say this episode was 100x better than what I was expecting. I truthfully wasn't expecting such a great episode as I just expected a mediocre one. This episode hit everything dead on. Excellent if creepy plot led by very strong performances by all the actors, great pacing of the ep as well. Great to see Carson again he, great job my the makeup and prop department as well. Woolsey was very well written and I have to say I was right that he was going to be a good choice. The tension is definitlely there and I am really looking forward to seeing more of him. From what I expected to be a good stand alone ep turned out to be a top notch episode. 10/10.

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 02:46 PM
» I am rather surprised that most of you do not know what 'hentai' is; but then again, you can't blame me, as almost every person under 25 I know is geekily obsessed with anime ...

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 02:48 PM
» I am rather surprised that most of you do not know what 'hentai' is; but then again, you can't blame me, as almost every person under 25 I know is geekily obsessed with anime ...

When did japanese anime porn come into this?;)

Pegasus_SGA
July 20th, 2008, 02:51 PM
» I am rather surprised that most of you do not know what 'hentai' is; but then again, you can't blame me, as almost every person under 25 I know is geekily obsessed with anime ...

I don't know... still haven't googled it yet, i'll save that for a 'special moment' ;) I don't watch anime, and passed 25 over a decade ago!! :eek:

I suddenly feel very old. :lol:

ETA: Ok I googled and learned that whilst I may be old in age, at least I know i'm young in other ways [read: naive]. :lol:

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 02:51 PM
When did japanese anime porn come into this?;)

It was Jelgate's fault...Well he seems to be getting the blame for everything today ;)

GoSpikey
July 20th, 2008, 02:52 PM
» I am rather surprised that most of you do not know what 'hentai' is; but then again, you can't blame me, as almost every person under 25 I know is geekily obsessed with anime ...

Ah, you see, there lies the problem. I'm twenty-six...


When did japanese anime porn come into this?;)

Jelgate... :mckay:

GoSpikey
July 20th, 2008, 02:54 PM
It was Jelgate's fault...Well he seems to be getting the blame for everything today ;)

:lol:

Would have even be funnier if I posted a couple of seconds earlier... :P

BerrySciFi
July 20th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Wow what can I say this episode was 100x better than what I was expecting. I truthfully wasn't expecting such a great episode as I just expected a mediocre one. This episode hit everything dead on. Excellent if creepy plot led by very strong performances by all the actors, great pacing of the ep as well. Great to see Carson again he, great job my the makeup and prop department as well. Woolsey was very well written and I have to say I was right that he was going to be a good choice. The tension is definitlely there and I am really looking forward to seeing more of him. From what I expected to be a good stand alone ep turned out to be a top notch episode. 10/10.


I wasn't sure about Woolsey, but it looks like TPTB are going to write the character well. I think Picardo is an awesome actor. I suppose I am predisposed to like Woolsey since I am a big fan of Voyager. I would love to see Kate Mulgrew make a guest appearance at some point.

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 02:55 PM
:lol:

Would have even be funnier if I posted a couple of seconds earlier... :P

:lol: yeah it would have.....Now i'm running off to hide from the Jel :S

PG15
July 20th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Actually, I'm not obsessed with anime either. The Internet is just a big place, that's all. ;)


It was Jelgate's fault...Well he seems to be getting the blame for everything today ;)

It's surprising how ok I am with that.

:D

flynn1959
July 20th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Well, against my better judgement I just watched this episode. I hate Woolsey really, really, really hate him - at least I did when he was on SG1.

But... and I can't believe I am going to say this... I actually liked him in this!!!

I can see him working as leader, I loved his interactions with John and Rodney. I loved his throwing the rules out the window but worrying that his world view had just shifted if he couldn't trust the rules to steer him in the right direction. Great stuff!

I can't wait for next weeks episode and that really is something I never thought I would be able to say again.

I give this one a 9/10.:)

Linda06
July 20th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Actually, I'm not obsessed with anime either. The Internet is just a big place, that's all. ;)



It's surprising how ok I am with that.

:D

Oh i think the Jel is gonna be on the rampage today :S *runs off to hide*

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 03:03 PM
It was Jelgate's fault...Well he seems to be getting the blame for everything today ;)

Why am I not surprised at this?

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 03:05 PM
I wasn't sure about Woolsey, but it looks like TPTB are going to write the character well. I think Picardo is an awesome actor. I suppose I am predisposed to like Woolsey since I am a big fan of Voyager. I would love to see Kate Mulgrew make a guest appearance at some point.

I wasn't either though he got more tolerable on Atlantis and showed redeeming qualities so I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I was right to do so. I really like him now.

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Oh i think the Jel is gonna be on the rampage today :S *runs off to hide*

*joins you and hopes it's a deep deep hole*;)

jelgate
July 20th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Why am I not surprised at this?Because I'm the forum scapegoat.:(

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 03:33 PM
Because I'm the forum scapegoat.:(

It's all good fun.;)

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 03:37 PM
» Poor Jelly :(:D

» Now will you guys stop distracting me from my recap :D

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 03:37 PM
» Poor Jelly :(:D

» Now will you guys stop distracting me from my recap :D

Fine party pooper.;) *throws tomatoes at Reiko*

Alipeeps
July 20th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Because I'm the forum scapegoat.:(

Awwwww. *pets the goat and feeds it cookies* :D

majorsal
July 20th, 2008, 03:51 PM
Liked that the team missed Carter and I also liked that they thought she'd been replaced because she'd done too well. She deserved that credit and respect, IMO. I miss her!


i loved that too! :D

i got to watch this yesterday, wanting to see it specifically for this scene. i'm glad this scene was written. (and it leaves room for sam to pop in again ;))




sally :)

Enzo Aquarius
July 20th, 2008, 05:26 PM
When did japanese anime porn come into this?;)

When the tentacles started hitting on Zelenka, Ronon, and especially Sheppard (literally). :lol:

Reiko
July 20th, 2008, 06:04 PM
» Don't forget Keller :P

jelgate
July 20th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Keller was the tentacles:P

Mitchell82
July 20th, 2008, 07:42 PM
Keller was the tentacles:P

LMAO! Ok who let the goofy gas out this time? *uses Ricky Ricardo voice*Reiko you've got some splaining to do!;)

Enzo Aquarius
July 20th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Well, they were controlled by her mind...so they were technically her's. So 'technically', Keller took down Zelenka, Ronon AND Sheppard. :P

I will say this though, the deep voice for TentacleKeller was spot on. Didn't sound corny or anything, it was really well done.

Jessiye
July 20th, 2008, 10:41 PM
\

What I didn't get was why the things didn't attack him as soon as he came into the room.

I said the same thing as I was watching the episode, Then I looked at the time on my cable box and figured it out. I knew there wasn't enough time to send someone else in after shep

Crazynewf
July 20th, 2008, 11:12 PM
As many of you have now stated I agree the ending was ridiculously predictable. Although you have to admit Sheppard was less lucky than usual(while still being exceedingly lucky). Previously I don't think the tentacle-thing would have actually stabbed him. It would have just missed or he would have shot it, something like that. There seems to be a lot of ' oh look I was just a few steps away from a massive explosion and my hair isn't even out of place' moments.

Despite that I do think Ronon deserves a chance to save the day. I say they should have kept the script right up to the puddlejumper but Sheppard doesn't have the chance to use the serum. It didn't make sense that it took so long for the tentacles to attack. Ronon breaks the tentacles somehow(That's for the writers to figure out;)) and uses the serum to take out the plant. Whumpers squee, Ronon fans celebrate, and everyone gets a break from the classic hero save. Win win situation. :ronan::sheppard:

sweetsamurai
July 21st, 2008, 01:33 AM
Keller should not have kept her sticky gooey hands to herself. SHe should have told someone. In the place and moment in which they all live in - weird occurences like those, for the safety of others, must be told.

Keller is sneaky. Carson come back, please.

ykickamoocow
July 21st, 2008, 01:41 AM
Keller should not have kept her sticky gooey hands to herself. SHe should have told someone. In the place and moment in which they all live in - weird occurences like those, for the safety of others, must be told.

Keller is sneaky. Carson come back, please.

Most women (or men) would prefer not to announce to the world that they have a white sticky substance on their hands as people may leep to the wrong conclusion :D

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 01:49 AM
Keller should not have kept her sticky gooey hands to herself. SHe should have told someone. In the place and moment in which they all live in - weird occurences like those, for the safety of others, must be told.

Keller is sneaky. Carson come back, please.

I think it was made clear in Keller's conversation with McKay in the isolation room that by the time the symptoms began to show (with the sticky gooey hand), the infection was already affecting her mind. She didn't deliberately choose not to tell anyone or to ignore the issue, she was already starting to space out (as evidenced at the meeting the next morning) and be influenced by the infection.

pjt
July 21st, 2008, 03:14 AM
Keller should not have kept her sticky gooey hands to herself. SHe should have told someone. In the place and moment in which they all live in - weird occurences like those, for the safety of others, must be told.

Keller is sneaky. Carson come back, please.

Please read the FAQ. ;)

Klinjon
July 21st, 2008, 05:44 AM
It looks like TPTB are going to write the character well. I think Picardo is an awesome actor. I suppose I am predisposed to like Woolsey since I am a big fan of Voyager. I would love to see Kate Mulgrew make a guest appearance at some point.

I agree. I think the writers have done a fantastic job integrating Woolsey into the established relationships within Atlantis, and experimenting with how individuals (particularly Sheppard and Teyla) have reacted to him taking command. What I also like is that, despite his prefered way of doing things, he's beginning to realise that flexability is a neccessity, if situations like the events of The Seed, that the Atlantis team regularly face in their struggle against the Wraith, continue to occur.

I really enjoyed this ep. It follows on from the season opener beautifully, with broad continuity references throughout. And a Kate Mulgrew guest appearence would be great, much like Robert Picardo, she can't "do" bad acting. I've seen some video of her Tea at 5 show, the one that was so successful that it stayed on Broadway for what seemed like forever, and she was fantastic.

g.o.d
July 21st, 2008, 05:53 AM
Please read the FAQ. ;)

why?

Rac80
July 21st, 2008, 06:09 AM
<snippety snip for space>


Ok, google it is then! :D


Edit: So I now wish I hadn't googled it! :eek: I'm too young for that sort of thing...or is it too naive? :lol:

I learned to never EVER google anything I read in GW. There are things I am too naive to know and I want to keep it that way! :eek: :S:S


I wasn't sure about Woolsey, but it looks like TPTB are going to write the character well. I think Picardo is an awesome actor. I suppose I am predisposed to like Woolsey since I am a big fan of Voyager. I would love to see Kate Mulgrew make a guest appearance at some point.

Oh I love love to see Kate Mulgrew on Atlantis. I love John De Lancie's turn as Frank Simmons on SG1. (but then he does despicable soooo well! :) )

joebags
July 21st, 2008, 06:09 AM
I think it was made clear in Keller's conversation with McKay in the isolation room that by the time the symptoms began to show (with the sticky gooey hand), the infection was already affecting her mind. She didn't deliberately choose not to tell anyone or to ignore the issue, she was already starting to space out (as evidenced at the meeting the next morning) and be influenced by the infection.

Keller always acts wimpy like that, it was just business as usual for cowardly Keller. They really need to get rid of her.

Woolsey though, he was da man! I didn't like the idea of him on Atlantis, but it worked for me.

Sheppard needs to stop saving the day. Its getting ridiculous.

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 06:23 AM
Keller always acts wimpy like that, it was just business as usual for cowardly Keller. They really need to get rid of her.

Woolsey though, he was da man! I didn't like the idea of him on Atlantis, but it worked for me.

Sheppard needs to stop saving the day. Its getting ridiculous.
Why is it getting ridiculous? It's always either Sheppard or McKay saving the say, since, oh yeah, season 1. It's either Shep being the hero, or occasionally using his brain to come up with an out of the box plan, or Rodney using his genius to save everyone. That's the way the show has been set up, so I don't see why it should suddenly get ridiculous after 4 seasons of it... some might see it as tedious or predictable, sure, but ridiculous? I don't care who saves the day personally though. As long as the story is entertaining, what does it matter?

As for Keller... She was cowardly here? If it'd have been me shut in a dark room, abandoned by everyone as they'd been ordered to leave the building because I was mutating into goodness knows what, I'd have been sobbing into my pillow, and shouting for someone to stay with me - VERY loudly. Yeah, me, I'm a coward! :lol: I thought she was pretty brave here, actually, and I say that as someone who isn't Keller's biggest fan, though I'm liking her much more in season 5 so far.

How did you think she was cowardly in this episode? Even when she asked Rodney what was happening to her, she wasn't cowardly or full of histrionics. She seemed scared, sure, but in a very subdued and dignified way, so I just don't see how she was a wimp here. Sorry. :)

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 06:24 AM
Keller always acts wimpy like that, it was just business as usual for cowardly Keller. They really need to get rid of her.

You're entitled to your opinion of Keller but nonetheless the PLOT indicates that her failure to do anything about the gooey hand symptom was in itself a further symptom of the infection.

If she was really being cowardly, as you claim, surely she'd have been scared by what happened (instead she was kind of spaced out and confused) and have run crying for help? The suggestion that because she is a coward ("a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.") she would wilfully ignore something that would possibly lead to "danger, difficulty, pain" etc) is nonsensical.

If she had been in her right mind, her failure to do anything about the unexplained gooey hand would not have been cowardly but rather it would have been stupid. And she has never been portrayed as being stupid with regard to medicine etc. You may not like her personality traits but the show has always portrayed her as being a very competent Doctor.

GateLadyM
July 21st, 2008, 06:39 AM
You may not like her personality traits but the show has always portrayed her as being a very competent Doctor.

*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.

DragonLadyK
July 21st, 2008, 06:40 AM
I think my reaction to this ep can be summed up on one question: why didn't they just have Teyla order the thing to stand down? We know she can control Hive ships.

M&M need a beta reader. ~.^

However, I have to say, as much as I wanted to hate the ship -- McKay/Keller is pretty darn cute. Keller is adorable with Rodney in such a way that for those moments I completely forget she's a whiney waste of space that I loathe.

ykickamoocow
July 21st, 2008, 06:42 AM
*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.

I would as she is very nice looking. My doctor is a 60 year old man and for some strange reason i dont find him attractive at all.

pjt
July 21st, 2008, 06:45 AM
why?

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8598255&postcount=138

Cautious Explorer
July 21st, 2008, 06:45 AM
Keller always acts wimpy like that, it was just business as usual for cowardly Keller. They really need to get rid of her.

Woolsey though, he was da man! I didn't like the idea of him on Atlantis, but it worked for me.

Sheppard needs to stop saving the day. Its getting ridiculous.

I'm going to have to agree with others and say Keller's behaviour wasn't so much cowardly as it was brainless. In hind sight, since the virus had taken hold by that point, it really wasn't her fault. However, my problem with this scene was that it didn't immediately stand out to me as being out of character for Keller. Had it been Beckett behaving in the same way as Keller did, I would have known right away that something wasn't right. With Keller, since I've not been overly impressed with her past actions, I didn't find her behaviour much different than usual.

I love Sheppard, but I have to agree that the grand heroic gesture and self-sacrifice are becoming way overused. Especially if he's going to do it in back to back episodes like this. It takes away from the drama and excitement that I felt in episodes like The Seige and The Defiant One. Making a suicide run or overcoming injuries to save the day are becoming old hat, and that should never be.

jenks
July 21st, 2008, 06:46 AM
*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.

Do you realise how easy it would be to write up a list like that for Carson? Oh ma wee baby turtles WAAAAAAAHHH!

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 06:47 AM
*cough*Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides.?* OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.?* Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor!?* But not one I would go to.Oh yes because is a comptent doctor would have waken Carson no matter the cost. Who cares if it might kill him.

pjt
July 21st, 2008, 06:50 AM
i would as she is very nice looking. My doctor is a 60 year old man and for some strange reason i dont find him attractive at all.

:) :) :)

GateLadyM
July 21st, 2008, 06:52 AM
I would as she is very nice looking. My doctor is a 60 year old man and for some strange reason i dont find him attractive at all.

Um, most people don't choose their doctors based on appearance. That would be kinda scary. :)

ykickamoocow
July 21st, 2008, 06:54 AM
Um, most people don't choose their doctors based on appearance. That would be kinda scary. :)

If i had to have someone examine my prostate i would rather it be Keller than Carson :D

pjt
July 21st, 2008, 06:54 AM
Oh yes because is a comptent doctor would have waken Carson no matter the cost. Who cares if it might kill him.

I remember a well known german doctor, late thirties, early forties, Doctor Whatshisname, he was always competent. ;)

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 06:57 AM
*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.

That's personality issues - lack of self-confidence, social awkwardness, unaccustomed to off-world dangers etc.

In terms of her portrayal as a DOCTOR, in performing medical treatments, investigations, diagnoses etc, she has never been portrayed as anything other than competent.


She kept Weir alive despite serious injuries and performed emergency surgery on her and worked with McKay to try and find a way to save her.
She performed successful emergency surgery on a man with limtied resources in the field.
She successfully identified the cause of the Kirsun fever outbreak, despite being infected and affected by the disease herself.
She treated Sam's badly broken leg with limited resources in the field.
She identified the cause of The Seer's illness and made him as comfortable as she could at the end of his life.
She discovered evidence that Carson was a clone and identified the cause of his deterioration.
She worked through Michael's research and was able to successfully recreate the serum that would keep Carson alive.


We have NEVER seen her make a medical mistake or in any way be anything less than competent in her medical skills.

As for your point about her being "afraid to try" the cure for Carson, she had valid concerns and wanted to be as sure as possible before trying it. It was a catch 22 situation - the only way to test the cure and find out if it worked was to try it on Carson... but if they did that and it didn't work, he'd die. Good reason for a bit of caution, I'd say.


I think my reaction to this ep can be summed up on one question: why didn't they just have Teyla order the thing to stand down? We know she can control Hive ships.

M&M need a beta reader. ~.^


Teyla can fly a fully functional complete hive ship - with effort (apart from durnig her pregnancy when the addition of her son's gift made it easier for her). There's never been any suggestion that that means she could connect to the consciousness of a growing hive ship and give it orders. We still have no idea hwo this process of growing a hive ship relates to the complete hive ships we've seen in the show. Do they still have a consciousness or a human host? Or does that last only long enough to complete the growth stage? There's never been any suggestion when Teyla was piloting hive ships that she was in any way connecting to any kind of consciousness... and I think she might have mentioned that! ;)

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 07:19 AM
I would as she is very nice looking. My doctor is a 60 year old man and for some strange reason i dont find him attractive at all.
:lol:

Do you realise how easy it would be to write up a list like that for Carson? Oh ma wee baby turtles WAAAAAAAHHH!
No kidding. The way Carson performed CPR was dreadful in this episode, he looked totally incompetent! Maybe his time in stasis fogged his brain a bit, or being a clone has made him forget his training? Or maybe the series needs proper medical advice? :lol:

If i had to have someone examine my prostate i would rather it be Keller than Carson :D
OMG! Diet coke over the keyboard time! :eek:

I think my reaction to this ep can be summed up on one question: why didn't they just have Teyla order the thing to stand down? We know she can control Hive ships.

M&M need a beta reader. ~.^



I don't see how Teyla could order a virus to stop becoming what it was destined to - to create an organic ship. There's no evidence Teyla could communicate telepathically and order it to do anything. As it said to Beckett, it was fulfilling its purpose and would become what it was destined to be.
So, I don't think that would work here, or make sense, to be honest.

Ruffles
July 21st, 2008, 07:47 AM
Teyla with the baby was awesome, rachel is just GLOWING as a mother :D Can baby Luttrell get a scene in the credits? Only 6 months old and already bringing home the bacon XDDDD

That is not Baby Luttrell.


Im kinda suprised theres soo many ppl asking whos taking care of teylas kid while shes working? I kinda wanna say 'whos takign care of your kid while YOUR working?' Is this really a plot point? Should we have a daycare center episode? Lawl. Im sure itll get worked in sooner or later and it can just be assumed someones watching junior. Does it hafta be spelled out. At work monday im gonna ask an employee OMG WHOS WATHING UR KIDS and see how they react XD

Our society has daycare centers on every corner. I hadn't noticed one on Atlantis recently. And the city was in the process of being taken over by a Wraith organism. I was curious who was holding Junior while Teyla was trying to save the city. No daycare. The people she is closest to are infected. Kanaan is in a refugee camp on the mainland. Someone in zoology? Maybe one of the chemists?


What do you mean?

After the power conduits, we never see Teyla again. After Sheppard leaves the infirmary we never see Rodney again. Where'd they go?


Your explanation doesn't make any sense, the whole point of my post was that Teyla's indecision to return to active duty wasn't addressed. You are telling me the time that has passed in between episodes and that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

The episode where Teyla showed her indecision was Midway, and yes that was quite a while ago. Though she seemed so torn I thought for sure that there would be some indication of her getting over that fear and being able to return to active duty. Also the fact that you mentioned that she's going to Earth on the Daedalus completely bewilders me, even if it's true, what does that have to do with my post?

Teyla isn't on active duty though - active duty being going off-world on missions. The city was under attack (the city where she AND her son live). She led the team on recon. I think her active duty status will be addressed in the future.


Shep almost getting intubated. I actually paused the video and laughed my ass off because I know Linzi and the rest of the Shep Whumpers must've screamed at that point. :D But oooooooh, so close. Damn Shep for waking up early, right? ;)

We were definitely screaming. Unfortunately, he recovered before he could be put on the vent.


Actually, no. I don't think many people are dumb enough to take medical advice from SciFi shows. Besides, 30 compressions? I don't care how fast it's performed; it will take up valuable time that can be used for other, more entertaining things.

You don't have to show all 30. One of the problems here was Carson actually counting out loud. Don't. Show the CPR from different angles. CPR is something that many people have training on and have seen repeatedly on other TV shows. When SGA does it wrong, it's obvious. Now, the surgery on Weir in Adrift - they could have said anything and I wouldn't know the difference. But certain medical procedures need to be done right. I giggled at JM's question (tongue-in-cheek I'm sure) if they needed a new med reference. Gracious, any whumper here would be glad to help out. :D

Rac80
July 21st, 2008, 08:00 AM
*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.


Oh yes because is a comptent doctor would have waken Carson no matter the cost. Who cares if it might kill him.
;)jelgate! ;)
on Jennifer's competence:
In the pharmaceutical industry there are several levels of testing any product has to go through before BEING GIVEN TO HUMANS - these are called protocols - and include animal testing from rats to rabbits to pigs. THEN if the FDA (in the usa that is) approves it may be tested on humans WHO VOLUNTEER to be test subjects. ( that is why it can take 10 YEARS for a drug to complete this process ) Jennifer's reluctance to give an untested drug to a human being (even if he was "only a clone") is perfectly understandable and admirable. It would have dovetailed with her medical training. In the usa that is. I can't speak for how drug protocols are dealt with in other countries.


If i had to have someone examine my prostate i would rather it be Keller than Carson :D

HA! you made me laugh!

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 08:17 AM
I giggled at JM's question (tongue-in-cheek I'm sure) if they needed a new med reference. Gracious, any whumper here would be glad to help out. :D

Oooh oooh! Pick me! Pick me! *channels Donkey from Shrek* :D :D

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 08:24 AM
We were definitely screaming. Unfortunately, he recovered before he could be put on the vent.

I thought that was very inconsiderate of Shep to recover like that. I mean, I'd love to have seen Carson intubating Shep. He'd probably have stuck the tube in the wrong orifice! ;) :lol:






You don't have to show all 30. One of the problems here was Carson actually counting out loud. Don't. Show the CPR from different angles. CPR is something that many people have training on and have seen repeatedly on other TV shows. When SGA does it wrong, it's obvious. Now, the surgery on Weir in Adrift - they could have said anything and I wouldn't know the difference. But certain medical procedures need to be done right. I giggled at JM's question (tongue-in-cheek I'm sure) if they needed a new med reference. Gracious, any whumper here would be glad to help out. :D

I laughed when I saw that. I'd do it... I mean I'd be putting myself out terribly, but I'd do it if pushed! ;) :D

Yeade
July 21st, 2008, 08:29 AM
I've only a vague impression of the discussion so far, but I wanted to toss in my two knuts on Sheppard's last minute heroics.

Was it too easy? Too quick? Cliched? Quite possibly. However, I also feel this resolution makes the most sense given the situation and characters.

Of the folks involved, seeing as how invasive alien organisms aren't exactly McKay's field of expertise, who's most likely to pull some dangerous off-the-wall solution from thin air when everybody else's out of ideas? I say, Sheppard.

Crashing a jumper straight into the isolation room isn't much crazier than stopping your heart with a portable defibrillator or flying a jumper with a nuclear payload into a hive ship or any of the many, many last resorts Sheppard's cooked up over the years. Man's got something of a knack. I figure because there's a pretty sharp mind under that hair, one not bound by conventional tactics, diplomacy, scientific knowledge, or even morality (cf. "Miller's Crossing").

Who's most likely to come to a decision quickly and take action without awaiting orders? Again, I say, Sheppard.

He's accustomed to making split-second, life-or-death choices in the field, and he's in charge. The only one who can overrule him is Woolsey. That Sheppard went himself is his known preference to take missions that may be suicide if he has the skills required instead of sending another. Nothing unexpected, yes, because the character would never act otherwise.

All of which leads me to the somewhat uncomfortable realization that Atlantis depends on Sheppard being willing to die and dirty his hands to save the city and her people. To be sure, I've read this idea in fanfic. I just don't remember it being so clear on the show itself.

When Woolsey updated Sheppard, McKay, and Ronon, I got the distinct impression he was fishing for volunteers. He didn't want to order someone to fire drones on Keller or to take the experimental phage when it could prove deadly. He didn't have to because, by presenting the situation, Sheppard would volunteer to do both. And everyone knew this--the audience, Woolsey, Sheppard. Which makes the whole thing not unlike Sheppard talking Henry Wallace into feeding himself to a Wraith, IMO.

Later on, nobody tried to argue Sheppard down from whatever he planned to do. Hell, nobody even asked what he had in mind! Granted, Sheppard didn't give them much time to do so, but the opportunity was there. Woolsey could've demanded Sheppard take a few seconds and explain himself when he first arrived in the control room or while the jumper was en route. I think Sheppard would've obeyed this command if not any of the ones that followed. Yet that order didn't come. Why not?

Could Sheppard be a victim of his own success? He's performed so many incredible feats of derring-do, survived against unbelievable odds so many times, that the entire Atlantis expedition expects, even relies on, him to come up with an answer when all else fails. He hasn't let anyone down so far because he really is good at this hero business for reasons that are rooted in his characterization, so everybody's learned to step aside and let him do his thing.

What's more, Sheppard's willing to take responsibility for whatever ills result from his decisions. Even those of a team under his command. He's both sacrifice and scapegoat, and he's perfectly aware of that. Not particularly happy about it sometimes, but his own feelings in this regard would never stop him.

Perhaps the question to ask isn't why Sheppard did what he did but why people let him.

On a different note, my first thought when the baby hive didn't react immediately to Sheppard's presence was that it somehow recognized him as a proto-hybrid or a Wraith worshipper. That may be wishful thinking. :p

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 08:33 AM
When Woolsey updated Sheppard, McKay, and Ronon, I got the distinct impression he was fishing for volunteers. He didn't want to order someone to fire drones on Keller or to take the experimental phage when it could prove deadly. He didn't have to because, by presenting the situation, Sheppard would volunteer to do both. And everyone knew this--the audience, Woolsey, Sheppard. Which makes the whole thing not unlike Sheppard talking Henry Wallace into feeding himself to a Wraith, IMO.


I totally got that feeling from that scene as well - and even thought as well that it kinda compared to Sheppard "presenting the situation" to Wallace in Miller's Crossing. The deliberate way Woolsey presented the situation, the way he got right in Sheppard's face as he made his final point, he knew Sheppard would volunteer to test the drug and the way Sheppard nodded and said "I'll do it" made it clear he knew this too - he was answering the question Woolsey hadn't asked aloud.

kanadra
July 21st, 2008, 08:51 AM
you guys are nuts in here......lol.. will be more careful with the spelling. have fun.

noxic
July 21st, 2008, 09:08 AM
I watched this episode with someone who had never seen Stargate before and had been smoking weed, and it was pretty embarrassing.

Show: "blah blah endless exposition... Colonel, when you were in the future.."
Me: "This must be hilarious for you."
Him: "What?"
Me: "'..when you were in the future..'"
Him: "That's what I thought I heard."

Yeade
July 21st, 2008, 10:14 AM
Alipeeps, I'm very fond of Sheppard, to say the least, lol, and Woolsey's awareness that Sheppard will do whatever it takes to save Atlantis and his people makes me worry some about the spiky-headed fool. One point about Weir and his team and even Carter, via McKay, is that they all have a very personal stake in whether Sheppard lives or dies. I suspect one of the main reasons why they let Sheppard go all kamikaze is because they feel it'd hurt something essential in the man to forcibly keep him from helping people when he thinks he can.

While Woolsey wouldn't want anyone to die or kill, he must recognize how much easier it is to get out of big trouble when you've someone who's not only willing to and capable of dying and killing but would do so without being asked or shifting the responsibility of these acts to you when you don't ask outright. Woolsey set events into motion by deciding to let Beckett conduct the investigation and Ronon attempt to reach Keller but, IMO, he also abdicated authority to Ronon in taking hostile action against the baby hive, to Sheppard in testing the phage and the final jumper run. In other words, every circumstance wherein the chances of death were good. I felt Woolsey was clearly out of his depth then and fell back on his role as an observer.

Sheppard, being who he is, will make the hard calls if Woolsey doesn't, but my fangirl heart doesn't want him to have to. At least not every time. :o :D

Charon
July 21st, 2008, 10:16 AM
Well I was certainly hoping for more of a splash from Woolsey's new assignment ; maybe it will take a few more eps. as Mr. Picardo stated. The placement of a civilian bureaucrat who everyone obviously despises will serve to do two things:
1. Bring a level of mistrust to the series we haven't seen since mid-season SG1. (involving their own not those pesky aliens)

2. Quite possibly help to bring a little cohesion to our band of stalwarts.

We can only hope. :)

morjana
July 21st, 2008, 11:04 AM
SGA - IGN: Review - 'The Seed':

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8610523&postcount=250

katikatnik
July 21st, 2008, 11:11 AM
I loved the episode, like really. The only thing that's starting to worry me is the general lack Shep vs. McKay banter. That was the thing that got me into the show. And suddenly, all the eps are totally devoid of it. Did the amount of McShep out there scared the writers/network so much that they suddenly decided to stick Shep with Ronon and McKay with Keller just to be sure? That would miff me a lot. Their bickering made even the worst ep enjoyable :(

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 11:15 AM
I loved the episode, like really. The only thing that's starting to worry me is the general lack Shep vs. McKay banter. That was the thing that got me into the show. And suddenly, all the eps are totally devoid of it. Did the amount of McShep out there scared the writers/network so much that they suddenly decided to stick Shep with Ronon and McKay with Keller just to be sure? That would miff me a lot. Their bickering made even the worst ep enjoyable :(Thats the problem with earlier seasons. To much McShep banter. It seriously reduced Ronon and Teyla to wallpaper. I see TPTb trying to make this season more team episodes. In the two episodes I have seen so far, everyone had a crucial role. However, their is no way you can get rid of the banter.

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 11:16 AM
I watched this episode with someone who had never seen Stargate before and had been smoking weed, and it was pretty embarrassing.


You mean TPTB are missing out on the untapped "disinterested pothead" demographic? :eek: I'm sure they'll be gutted! :lol:


Alipeeps, I'm very fond of Sheppard, to say the least, lol, and Woolsey's awareness that Sheppard will do whatever it takes to save Atlantis and his people makes me worry some about the spiky-headed fool. One point about Weir and his team and even Carter, via McKay, is that they all have a very personal stake in whether Sheppard lives or dies. I suspect one of the main reasons why they let Sheppard go all kamikaze is because they feel it'd hurt something essential in the man to forcibly keep him from helping people when he thinks he can.

While Woolsey wouldn't want anyone to die or kill, he must recognize how much easier it is to get out of big trouble when you've someone who's not only willing to and capable of dying and killing but would do so without being asked or shifting the responsibility of these acts to you when you don't ask outright. Woolsey set events into motion by deciding to let Beckett conduct the investigation and Ronon attempt to reach Keller but, IMO, he also abdicated authority to Ronon in taking hostile action against the baby hive, to Sheppard in testing the phage and the final jumper run. In other words, every circumstance wherein the chances of death were good. I felt Woolsey was clearly out of his depth then and fell back on his role as an observer.

Sheppard, being who he is, will make the hard calls if Woolsey doesn't, but my fangirl heart doesn't want him to have to. At least not every time. :o :D

Oooh some very good points there. I can definitely see what you're saying about Woolsey's approach and that could be something interesting to watch for as the Season goes on... see how that develops...

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 11:27 AM
I've only a vague impression of the discussion so far, but I wanted to toss in my two knuts on Sheppard's last minute heroics.

Was it too easy? Too quick? Cliched? Quite possibly. However, I also feel this resolution makes the most sense given the situation and characters.

Of the folks involved, seeing as how invasive alien organisms aren't exactly McKay's field of expertise, who's most likely to pull some dangerous off-the-wall solution from thin air when everybody else's out of ideas? I say, Sheppard.

Crashing a jumper straight into the isolation room isn't much crazier than stopping your heart with a portable defibrillator or flying a jumper with a nuclear payload into a hive ship or any of the many, many last resorts Sheppard's cooked up over the years. Man's got something of a knack. I figure because there's a pretty sharp mind under that hair, one not bound by conventional tactics, diplomacy, scientific knowledge, or even morality (cf. "Miller's Crossing").

Who's most likely to come to a decision quickly and take action without awaiting orders? Again, I say, Sheppard.

He's accustomed to making split-second, life-or-death choices in the field, and he's in charge. The only one who can overrule him is Woolsey. That Sheppard went himself is his known preference to take missions that may be suicide if he has the skills required instead of sending another. Nothing unexpected, yes, because the character would never act otherwise.

All of which leads me to the somewhat uncomfortable realization that Atlantis depends on Sheppard being willing to die and dirty his hands to save the city and her people. To be sure, I've read this idea in fanfic. I just don't remember it being so clear on the show itself.

When Woolsey updated Sheppard, McKay, and Ronon, I got the distinct impression he was fishing for volunteers. He didn't want to order someone to fire drones on Keller or to take the experimental phage when it could prove deadly. He didn't have to because, by presenting the situation, Sheppard would volunteer to do both. And everyone knew this--the audience, Woolsey, Sheppard. Which makes the whole thing not unlike Sheppard talking Henry Wallace into feeding himself to a Wraith, IMO.

Later on, nobody tried to argue Sheppard down from whatever he planned to do. Hell, nobody even asked what he had in mind! Granted, Sheppard didn't give them much time to do so, but the opportunity was there. Woolsey could've demanded Sheppard take a few seconds and explain himself when he first arrived in the control room or while the jumper was en route. I think Sheppard would've obeyed this command if not any of the ones that followed. Yet that order didn't come. Why not?

Could Sheppard be a victim of his own success? He's performed so many incredible feats of derring-do, survived against unbelievable odds so many times, that the entire Atlantis expedition expects, even relies on, him to come up with an answer when all else fails. He hasn't let anyone down so far because he really is good at this hero business for reasons that are rooted in his characterization, so everybody's learned to step aside and let him do his thing.

What's more, Sheppard's willing to take responsibility for whatever ills result from his decisions. Even those of a team under his command. He's both sacrifice and scapegoat, and he's perfectly aware of that. Not particularly happy about it sometimes, but his own feelings in this regard would never stop him.

Perhaps the question to ask isn't why Sheppard did what he did but why people let him.

On a different note, my first thought when the baby hive didn't react immediately to Sheppard's presence was that it somehow recognized him as a proto-hybrid or a Wraith worshipper. That may be wishful thinking. :p
What a wonderful post. I agree with you here. You understand Sheppard really well, IMO, and I see him the same way. Not sure why the baby hive didn't react to Shep. I just thought it was hurt and in a bit of shock from the jumper crashing in, and maybe as you say, it doesn't see humans as a threat unless they do something to alarm it?

Wow, I'm still nodding in agreement at your post. Well done! :)

I also agree with you about Woolsey. He totally wanted a volunteer and everyone just KNEW who would volunteer, didn't they? Nobody even tried to talk Sheppard out of it, did they? So you're spot on there, IMO.

I loved the episode, like really. The only thing that's starting to worry me is the general lack Shep vs. McKay banter. That was the thing that got me into the show. And suddenly, all the eps are totally devoid of it. Did the amount of McShep out there scared the writers/network so much that they suddenly decided to stick Shep with Ronon and McKay with Keller just to be sure? That would miff me a lot. Their bickering made even the worst ep enjoyable :(

I think it's early days, to be honest. The nature of S and R, and certain characters being separated from each other, and the nature of this episode too didn't perhaps lend themselves to much McShep banter. I did see plenty of caring from McKay towards Sheppard in both eppies though, but there just wasn't much time for banter - they were both quite serious episodes. I'm sure there'll be some soon. TPTB aren't stupid, and they know for many the banter between these two character is very important, and central to the show for many too :)

katikatnik
July 21st, 2008, 11:28 AM
Thats the problem with earlier seasons. To much McShep banter. It seriously reduced Ronon and Teyla to wallpaper. I see TPTb trying to make this season more team episodes. In the two episodes I have seen so far, everyone had a crucial role. However, their is no way you can get rid of the banter.

Yeah, well but that was the reason why I started to watch it. And it's something that a lot of fans agree on liking - which is a real shocker, fandom actually agreeing on something ;P They brought a lot of humor to the show and their bickering spiced every episode. Don't get me wrong, I love Ronon and Teyla but I feel kind of cheated without the banter. The eps lack the certain... something for me to be really content with what I see. It's like an essential part of the show is missing. It just feels a bit... lackluster.

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 11:44 AM
Yeah, well but that was the reason why I started to watch it. And it's something that a lot of fans agree on liking - which is a real shocker, fandom actually agreeing on something ;P They brought a lot of humor to the show and their bickering spiced every episode. Don't get me wrong, I love Ronon and Teyla but I feel kind of cheated without the banter. The eps lack the certain... something for me to be really content with what I see. It's like an essential part of the show is missing. It just feels a bit... lackluster.Well this brings back to the core of fandom. Who is the majority? Do TPTB listen to people who love McShep banter or do they listen to the people who want the more Ronon and Teyla. Like Linzi said, its only two episodes and one thing that will never disappear is the McShep banter. This episode was not lackluster to me and know pleanty of fans who would agree. Everything needs to be done in moderate quanties.

JohnDuh
July 21st, 2008, 11:48 AM
Crybaby Keller would have left Carson to rot in that pod, too fearful to try her potential serum, until Woolsey kicked her butt.

She, being a caring person, was afraid to cause harm - where Woolsey didn't give a damn if Carson died.

katikatnik
July 21st, 2008, 11:54 AM
Well this brings back to the core of fandom. Who is the majority? Do TPTB listen to people who love McShep banter or do they listen to the people who want the more Ronon and Teyla. Like Linzi said, its only two episodes and one thing that will never disappear is the McShep banter. This episode was not lackluster to me and know pleanty of fans who would agree. Everything needs to be done in moderate quanties.

I mostly base my observations on what people complain about, here in the forums and in other forums/comms too. There are not many people who complain about them bickering - I mean compared to people disliking Keller/Teyla/Ronon/etc. etc. And I'm not arguing about what the majority/minority/whatever is in fandom - that's just word games and without hard statistical data undefinable anyway.

I'm also not saying that these two first eps were bad. I liked them a lot and I watched them like ten times already. I'm just saying that the banter would have made them even better. Not every ep has to be like "Inferno" but something to lighten up the mood here and there wouldn't hurt.

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 11:57 AM
I mostly base my observations on what people complain about, here in the forums and in other forums/comms too. There are not many people who complain about them bickering - I mean compared to people disliking Keller/Teyla/Ronon/etc. etc. And I'm not arguing about what the majority/minority/whatever is in fandom - that's just word games and without hard statistical data undefinable anyway.

I'm also not saying that these two first eps were bad. I liked them a lot and I watched them like ten times already. I'm just saying that the banter would have made them even better. Not every ep has to be like "Inferno" but something to lighten up the mood here and there wouldn't hurt.
I really do think we might get some very soon. :)

katikatnik
July 21st, 2008, 12:02 PM
I really do think we might get some very soon. :)

Your word in God's ear, as the German say ;) I also believe that the banter will be back, eventually, I'm just being impatient. I think that maybe it's the writers. Not every writer can do well-written bickering.

Pegasus_SGA
July 21st, 2008, 12:09 PM
I agree. I think the writers have done a fantastic job integrating Woolsey into the established relationships within Atlantis, and experimenting with how individuals (particularly Sheppard and Teyla) have reacted to him taking command. What I also like is that, despite his prefered way of doing things, he's beginning to realise that flexability is a neccessity, if situations like the events of The Seed, that the Atlantis team regularly face in their struggle against the Wraith, continue to occur.

I really enjoyed this ep. It follows on from the season opener beautifully, with broad continuity references throughout. And a Kate Mulgrew guest appearence would be great, much like Robert Picardo, she can't "do" bad acting. I've seen some video of her Tea at 5 show, the one that was so successful that it stayed on Broadway for what seemed like forever, and she was fantastic.

I was worried about having Woolsey on board, in fact I do recall I had a bit of a hissy fit when it was announced. BUT, I found myself liking his very simplistic ways, even if they don't always suit the purpose. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. I do like his no nonsense brusqueness, and I really get the impression he doesn't care who he pisses off. I didn't see that much friction in this ep, and am hoping that will change so that we get a bit of it. I agree in that by the end of the eppy he was starting to realise that the rules don't always fit, but I don't think he'll be throwing the rule book out just yet. We need someone to occasionally reign the boys in and their reckless behaviour. ;)





As for Keller... She was cowardly here? If it'd have been me shut in a dark room, abandoned by everyone as they'd been ordered to leave the building because I was mutating into goodness knows what, I'd have been sobbing into my pillow, and shouting for someone to stay with me - VERY loudly.

I'd have joined you. :lol:



*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.

Wow how on Earth did she manage that in this ep, whilst being trapped inside the cocoon and being taken over by the noodle of doom? If she managed to do all that, well that's talent. :P ;)

If you look at a different way, say a good friend of yours was seriously ill and on deaths door, would you give them a drug that could potentially cure them or as a result of your actions kill them. It's not an easy decision, and it's not as black and white as Woolsey made out. This is someone's life in your hands. Irrespective of whether she's a doctor or not, it could have potentially killed Carson. And if you recall even Carson was hesitating on whether to use the cure. So, Keller and Carson, not so different.


I think my reaction to this ep can be summed up on one question: why didn't they just have Teyla order the thing to stand down? We know she can control Hive ships.

M&M need a beta reader. ~.^

However, I have to say, as much as I wanted to hate the ship -- McKay/Keller is pretty darn cute. Keller is adorable with Rodney in such a way that for those moments I completely forget she's a whiney waste of space that I loathe.

You made a good point there, I hadn't thought of that. I wonder if she could have still controlled it when it had already taken another host?


I'm going to have to agree with others and say Keller's behaviour wasn't so much cowardly as it was brainless. In hind sight, since the virus had taken hold by that point, it really wasn't her fault. However, my problem with this scene was that it didn't immediately stand out to me as being out of character for Keller. Had it been Beckett behaving in the same way as Keller did, I would have known right away that something wasn't right. With Keller, since I've not been overly impressed with her past actions, I didn't find her behaviour much different than usual.

I love Sheppard, but I have to agree that the grand heroic gesture and self-sacrifice are becoming way overused. Especially if he's going to do it in back to back episodes like this. It takes away from the drama and excitement that I felt in episodes like The Seige and The Defiant One. Making a suicide run or overcoming injuries to save the day are becoming old hat, and that should never be.

The Sheppard thing, we've been discussing on the whump thread and its his nature to do some of those reckless things, just as its Teyla's personality to try and pacify before she beats the crap out of something. Or Ronon's warrior instinct to kill anything that moves. ;) Or Rodney and his science. It's something inherant in their personalities. I want to know why he does that, and what drives him. I don't think it's a sense of him being self destructive, more that he values someone elses life over his own. And he said this way back in Sateda, that he'd do what Ronon was going to do. If he had to give his life to save his 'family' he would. There's no choice for him it's instinctual.


If i had to have someone examine my prostate i would rather it be Keller than Carson :D

:lol:




:lol:

No kidding. The way Carson performed CPR was dreadful in this episode, he looked totally incompetent! Maybe his time in stasis fogged his brain a bit, or being a clone has made him forget his training? Or maybe the series needs proper medical advice? :lol:

I thought we weren't going to mention the CPR thing again, unless of course you want me going off on a tangent for the next ten pages? ;)



I don't see how Teyla could order a virus to stop becoming what it was destined to - to create an organic ship. There's no evidence Teyla could communicate telepathically and order it to do anything. As it said to Beckett, it was fulfilling its purpose and would become what it was destined to be.
So, I don't think that would work here, or make sense, to be honest.

I think Dragon Lady was referring to teyla's ability to control hive ships, as at that point the noodles were listening to Keller, and if they were able to do that, there must have been some kind of telepathic link, so Teyla might have been able to get through to either Keller or the noodles. Especially if it had incorporated some of the Wraith DNA in Keller. We know from the past how she's been able to remote access other hive ships. It would have been interesting for her to try this.

JohnDuh
July 21st, 2008, 12:57 PM
Keller should of took the risk with the gene therapy to try and save Carson. Mckay and Carson would of taken the risk.

"Would have".

bluealien
July 21st, 2008, 02:07 PM
Yeah, well but that was the reason why I started to watch it. And it's something that a lot of fans agree on liking - which is a real shocker, fandom actually agreeing on something ;P They brought a lot of humor to the show and their bickering spiced every episode. Don't get me wrong, I love Ronon and Teyla but I feel kind of cheated without the banter. The eps lack the certain... something for me to be really content with what I see. It's like an essential part of the show is missing. It just feels a bit... lackluster.

There are also a lot of fans who have become fed up with the McKay/Sheppard show, and we had way too much of the banter IMO and I'm glad the ptb have finally toned it down, and I hope it stays that way. It's not just the Sheppard and McKay show and as much as I enjoy the interaction between Sheppard and McKay I dont want to see them acting like bickering kids each week. It's also nice to see the writers explore other combinations besides Sheppard and McKay.. and after watching Search and Rescue the Ronon/Sheppard interaction is becoming my favourite on the show...
I hope the ptb continue to give equal attention to all of the main 4 cast members and so far season five looks promising.

bluealien
July 21st, 2008, 02:15 PM
The Sheppard thing, we've been discussing on the whump thread and its his nature to do some of those reckless things, just as its Teyla's personality to try and pacify before she beats the crap out of something. Or Ronon's warrior instinct to kill anything that moves. ;) Or Rodney and his science. It's something inherant in their personalities. I want to know why he does that, and what drives him. I don't think it's a sense of him being self destructive, more that he values someone elses life over his own. And he said this way back in Sateda, that he'd do what Ronon was going to do. If he had to give his life to save his 'family' he would. There's no choice for him it's instinctual.

I agree it is inherent in his personality but even so it seems to be taken to the extreme at times. Why the need to sacrifice his life constantly.. and in the case of Keller, does he really consider her part of his family... anyone new he meets and only knows for a few months is suddenly his family.. I still have a bit of difficulty with that... I can understand him giving his life for his team who he has worked with so closely over the past 4 years.. but he seems to be adding new names to this family rather quickly.. I think there has to be more to it than that and I would love to see it touched on in some way.. but I doubt that will ever happen..

Reiko
July 21st, 2008, 02:17 PM
» I take issue with this new "family" being forced onto us. (I'm looking at you, Keller). Especially without the old family being mourned and celebrated. The expedition gave Sheppard a family he never had, and you just don't get over losing members of it.

Linda06
July 21st, 2008, 02:19 PM
There are also a lot of fans who have become fed up with the McKay/Sheppard show, and we had way too much of the banter IMO and I'm glad the ptb have finally toned it down, and I hope it stays that way. It's not just the Sheppard and McKay show and as much as I enjoy the interaction between Sheppard and McKay I dont want to see them acting like bickering kids each week. It's also nice to see the writers explore other combinations besides Sheppard and McKay.. and after watching Search and Rescue the Ronon/Sheppard interaction is becoming my favourite on the show...
I hope the ptb continue to give equal attention to all of the main 4 cast members and so far season five looks promising.

Yep i agree....I was never really into the Shep/McKay thing and it did get out of hand.....It was used way too much and Teyla and Ronon got ignored in the process so i'm glad they toned it down a great deal.....I'd like to see more of a different pairings on the show...maybe some more Teyla/Rodney for example...We never really had any until S & R and their scenes together was great.......They should start to mix it up a bit more!

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 02:21 PM
» I take issue with this new "family" being forced onto us. (I'm looking at you, Keller). Especially without the old family being mourned and celebrated. The expedition gave Sheppard a family he never had, and you just don't get over losing members of it.Who says the old group wasn't mourned?

Ltcolshepjumper
July 21st, 2008, 02:31 PM
» I take issue with this new "family" being forced onto us. (I'm looking at you, Keller). Especially without the old family being mourned and celebrated. The expedition gave Sheppard a family he never had, and you just don't get over losing members of it.

It is sort of disrespectful how the core cast could practically forget Weir and Beckett that quickly and easily, who have been replaced by first carter, then Woolsey, and Keller. With Beckett, at least another beckett exists, but it's not good when the two characters with the most heart and emotion, Weir and Beckett, are so soon forgotten. And it is even worse when someone like Carter is wrongly praised for one year of doing relatively nothing, while Weir is regarded as a distant memory. The "family" Sheppard was referring to in Sateda was Weir, Mckay, Teyla, Beckett, and Ronon. Two out of five have been killed within less than 6 months of each other. How do you get over that so quickly? The team recovered so quickly from their deaths, but two months after Carter leaves, it's "difficult". That is what is out of place. When someone from another show is cherished more than members of the original cast.

Pegasus_SGA
July 21st, 2008, 02:49 PM
I agree it is inherent in his personality but even so it seems to be taken to the extreme at times. Why the need to sacrifice his life constantly.. and in the case of Keller, does he really consider her part of his family... anyone new he meets and only knows for a few months is suddenly his family.. I still have a bit of difficulty with that... I can understand him giving his life for his team who he has worked with so closely over the past 4 years.. but he seems to be adding new names to this family rather quickly.. I think there has to be more to it than that and I would love to see it touched on in some way.. but I doubt that will ever happen..

But that's it, when it's your personality, its a hard thing to change, and the only thing (I think) that will change your behaviour is by people pointing it out to you, or you having an epiphany. Ronon mentioned something in S&R about it, and it's a starting point, but behaviour like Sheppard's won't change overnight. He'll either have to face it head on, or someone will have to point it out to him, and continue to point it out, otherwise how will he ever know that what he's doing isn't always the best course of action? And who is better placed than someone who can see things onjectively, like a friend? So unless an external force tells him, then he'll probably never see his behaviour as anything but a natural instinct inherent in him.

As for your part about adding family, isn't that what we do when we make good friends, we bring them into our lives and make them part of our extended family? If my friend was in trouble and I could do something to save her that may injure me in the process i'd probably still do it. :lol: Because that's who I am. Some of my best friends are closer than family, and that's the purpose of true friendship to me, so they become in a sense a part of your life... isn't it?


» I take issue with this new "family" being forced onto us. (I'm looking at you, Keller). Especially without the old family being mourned and celebrated. The expedition gave Sheppard a family he never had, and you just don't get over losing members of it.

I don't think they've been forgotten Reiko, and you kinda owe keller a debt of gratitude by saving Carson. ;) :P :D

*runs and hides*


It is sort of disrespectful how the core cast could practically forget Weir and Beckett that quickly and easily, who have been replaced by first carter, then Woolsey, and Keller. With Beckett, at least another beckett exists, but it's not good when the two characters with the most heart and emotion, Weir and Beckett, are so soon forgotten. And it is even worse when someone like Carter is wrongly praised for one year of doing relatively nothing, while Weir is regarded as a distant memory. The "family" Sheppard was referring to in Sateda was Weir, Mckay, Teyla, Beckett, and Ronon. Two out of five have been killed within less than 6 months of each other. How do you get over that so quickly? The team recovered so quickly from their deaths, but two months after Carter leaves, it's "difficult". That is what is out of place. When someone from another show is cherished more than members of the original cast.

I won't get into heart and emotion and which character possess the most of it, because it is subject to the character you care about, and each person will feel differently.

As for the family, yes in that instant Shep was talking about those you mentioned, and sorry to be blunt, but, you can't cling to the past, you have to move on. You can't isolate yourself and close of from everyone because someone has died/gone missing etc. You need to deal with it and move on. it doesn't mean you forget them or never talk about them again, nor does it mean that you can't create a 'new family'. If you lost a best friend, would you stop meeting people, making friends because you don't want to taint the memory of that family member or that friend? Wouldn't your 'family memeber/friend' want you to be happy and move on with your life and carry on, and in this case of Weir and Carson stop it from happening again. Can you do that without the support of new friends and family? Just a thought. :o

Ltcolshepjumper
July 21st, 2008, 03:01 PM
I won't get into heart and emotion and which character possess the most of it, because it is subject to the character you care about, and each person will feel differently.

As for the family, yes in that instant Shep was talking about those you mentioned, and sorry to be blunt, but, you can't cling to the past, you have to move on. You can't isolate yourself and close of from everyone because someone has died/gone missing etc. You need to deal with it and move on. it doesn't mean you forget them or never talk about them again, nor does it mean that you can't create a 'new family'. If you lost a best friend, would you stop meeting people, making friends because you don't want to taint the memory of that family member or that friend? Wouldn't your 'family memeber/friend' want you to be happy and move on with your life and carry on, and in this case of Weir and Carson stop it from happening again. Can you do that without the support of new friends and family? Just a thought. :o

More so, it's the lenght of time in which they "got over" the deaths of Weir and Beckett, as opposed to the departure of Carter. I think we can assume that 2 months didn't pass between Sunday and Submersion, or between Lifeline and Reunion. The point is, it seems as though a greater emphasis was placed on Carter's departure than Weir and Beckett's deaths. A sudden death is something you can't prepare for, and it takes longer to get over. And it's not so much with Woolsey and Keller, who don't seem to be close with the team at all, as it is with Carter. And, this is concerning Teyla and Shepaprd's statements about her, more so Teyla, who said that Carter's absence was difficult to deal with. That is OTT to me. That was never implied in the loss of Weir or Beckett. All that was said was Teyla saying, "I feel a great deal of sadness" for Beckett, and Mckay eight eps later saying he missed Weir. They were not shown to be getting over their deaths. Remember SG-1, when Daniel died. They actually showed Carter having to deal with her loss. That's what SGA should have shown. And, I know one must get over it, but frankly, it should have been on screen.

Pegasus_SGA
July 21st, 2008, 03:16 PM
More so, it's the lenght of time in which they "got over" the deaths of Weir and Beckett, as opposed to the departure of Carter. I think we can assume that 2 months didn't pass between Sunday and Submersion, or between Lifeline and Reunion. The point is, it seems as though a greater emphasis was placed on Carter's departure than Weir and Beckett's deaths. A sudden death is something you can't prepare for, and it takes longer to get over. And it's not so much with Woolsey and Keller, who don't seem to be close with the team at all, as it is with Carter. And, this is concerning Teyla and Shepaprd's statements about her, more so Teyla, who said that Carter's absence was difficult to deal with. That is OTT to me.

But with grief there is no time frame. Each person is different, and each person reacts differently. If we look at each of the characters, and how they handle situations, they each have their own way at resolving things. It took Rodney a long time to get over losing Carson and Weir, compared to say, Ronon; who just felt the need to fight for justice. Or Sheppard who doesn't say much, but carries it all inside him until one day it explodes. Or Teyla dealing with the death immediately. With Carson it's different, he's dead, then not dead, then a clone, then he's leaving again. Mixed emotions. With Rodney you can see he has some issues in dealing with it. There is no right or wrong, no timescale, it's how a person reacts to it. And who says they 'got over' their deaths within that two months? Heck Shep is still carrying around guilt about Ford and Weir a year or two on. Rodney said he'd not gotten over it in BAMSR that was what 6/8 months after the event. They continue to talk about Beckett and Weir in The Seed, Keller was still trying to find a cure, which suggests they're not forgotten about.

I disagree with the sudden death and it takes longer to get over. I say this because i've had to deal with a sudden death, a prolonged death and a i've had an opportunity to say goodbye tp someone who was near death. Each of them are hard in their own way, so I disagree with your point that sudden death is more difficult to come to terms with. But again, it depends on the person, the relationship, your feelings and how you deal with it. Each death is different just as each grieving time is different.



That was never implied in the loss of Weir or Beckett. All that was said was Teyla saying, "I feel a great deal of sadness" for Beckett, and Mckay eight eps later saying he missed Weir. They were not shown to be getting over their deaths. Remember SG-1, when Daniel died. They actually showed Carter having to deal with her loss. That's what SGA should have shown. And, I know one must get over it, but frankly, it should have been on screen.

But realistically, would you want to see them crying their eyes out for 16 eps out of 20? It's not that sort of show, i'd hate that to be honest. Snippets here and there, Keller's talk to Teyla about Rodney and Carson for me was great. Those little things are enough for me. I don't want months of mourning, that's not what the show is about. They're essentially in a war zone, you cope now and deal with the emotional impact later when the danger is over and you've time to evaluate things that have happened and people that you've lost.

Reiko
July 21st, 2008, 03:23 PM
» Well, it was just so sudden after Sunday and Lifeline ... things went too quick. And I know everyone mourns differently, but could it be done on screen?

Mitchell82
July 21st, 2008, 03:31 PM
» Well, it was just so sudden after Sunday and Lifeline ... things went too quick. And I know everyone mourns differently, but could it be done on screen?

They did mourn, several times on screen.

Ltcolshepjumper
July 21st, 2008, 03:36 PM
But with grief there is no time frame. Each person is different, and each person reacts differently. If we look at each of the characters, and how they handle situations, they each have their own way at resolving things. It took Rodney a long time to get over losing Carson and Weir, compared to say, Ronon; who just felt the need to fight for justice. Or Sheppard who doesn't say much, but carries it all inside him until one day it explodes. Or Teyla dealing with the death immediately. With Carson it's different, he's dead, then not dead, then a clone, then he's leaving again. Mixed emotions. With Rodney you can see he has some issues in dealing with it. There is no right or wrong, no timescale, it's how a person reacts to it. And who says they 'got over' their deaths within that two months? Heck Shep is still carrying around guilt about Ford and Weir a year or two on. Rodney said he'd not gotten over it in BAMSR that was what 6/8 months after the event. They continue to talk about Beckett and Weir in The Seed, Keller was still trying to find a cure, which suggests they're not forgotten about.

I disagree with the sudden death and it takes longer to get over. I say this because i've had to deal with a sudden death, a prolonged death and a i've had an opportunity to say goodbye tp someone who was near death. Each of them are hard in their own way, so I disagree with your point that sudden death is more difficult to come to terms with. But again, it depends on the person, the relationship, your feelings and how you deal with it. Each death is different just as each grieving time is different.



But realistically, would you want to see them crying their eyes out for 16 eps out of 20? It's not that sort of show, i'd hate that to be honest. Snippets here and there, Keller's talk to Teyla about Rodney and Carson for me was great. Those little things are enough for me. I don't want months of mourning, that's not what the show is about. They're essentially in a war zone, you cope now and deal with the emotional impact later when the danger is over and you've time to evaluate things that have happened and people that you've lost.

Ok, first, I said they should have at least had one scene in a episode where they really focus on their losses. But no, they were just passing mentions of them. And it was never shown that Mckay had a difficult time getting over the losses- only a comment in This Mortal coil, which was hardly believable. They talked of colen beckett in the Seed; Weir got only a small mention by Ronon, hardly being "talked about".

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 03:38 PM
I saw little bits of mourning om screen. They can't devote a whole episode to mourn someone death. When Daniel ascended their were only a few tiny bits about his death/ascension, Also bear in mind people mourn in different ways. When my grandfather died I kept it bottled up and cried in private

Reiko
July 21st, 2008, 03:39 PM
» And then there's lots of subtext open to viewer interpretation. Teyla and John both think about Elizabeth in S&R, but probably no one except us angsty Anti's would notice it.

» Bottle it up and cry in private? Show it.

Mitchell82
July 21st, 2008, 03:39 PM
Ok, first, I said they should have at least had one scene in a episode where they really focus on their losses. But no, they were just passing mentions of them. And it was never shown that Mckay had a difficult time getting over the losses- only a comment in This Mortal coil, which was hardly believable. They talked of colen beckett in the Seed; Weir got only a small mention by Ronon, hardly being "talked about".

I disagree. The scene in This Mortal Coil was believable and they all grieved in the ep he died and the ep we realized Weir was gone. No need to keep bringing it up.

Pegasus_SGA
July 21st, 2008, 03:49 PM
Ok, first, I said they should have at least had one scene in a episode where they really focus on their losses. But no, they were just passing mentions of them. And it was never shown that Mckay had a difficult time getting over the losses- only a comment in This Mortal coil, which was hardly believable. They talked of colen beckett in the Seed; Weir got only a small mention by Ronon, hardly being "talked about".

The scene in Sunday comes to mind, each of them talking and grieving or not. Rodney going onto the pier to 'talk' to Carson, and in Carson's quarters clearing out his belingongs, talking to Ronon about blaming himself for Carson's death, the memorial service they held for Carson. BAMSR Rodney and Radek talking about Weir, and Carson, sorry but that was a heart to heart talk. How often do we see/hear him talking like that, honestly and openly about people he's lost? Did he do that with Grodin, or Gaul? Nope, he did do that with Carson and Elizabeth.

With Elizabeth it was different, was she dead, wasn't she? Do you grieve in the same way if someone is missing, would you hold a memorial service immediately after the person goes missing. Would you have wanted a memorial service for Elizabeth 8 months on? They cleared away her things, which suggest they started the grieving process then, Sheppard fought with Carter to try and save Weir. The memories and feelings were brought up again in TMC... so they have shown these scenes, but it just might not be in the way that you want them.


I saw little bits of mourning om screen. They can't devote a whole episode to mourn someone death. When Daniel ascended their were only a few tiny bits about his death/ascension, Also bear in mind people mourn in different ways. When my grandfather died I kept it bottled up and cried in private

Agreed and *hugs*


» And then there's lots of subtext open to viewer interpretation. Teyla and John both think about Elizabeth in S&R, but probably no one except us angsty Anti's would notice it.

» Bottle it up and cry in private? Show it.

You're angsty hon? ;)

By bottling it up, you don't see it, it's in your behaviour, but you don't hear it or always see that someone is grieving straight away. I know people where it's hit them a few years down the line or when someone else close to them dies, then they release all these pent up emotions. How do we know that the times they stare off to space they aren't thinking of Weir, Carson, Ford etc. I wasn't expecting you know who in S&R, that surprised the hell out of me, but isn't that suggesting they're not forgotten also? They're showing you that. :)

Ok I gotta go to bed, I gotta get up for work soon, great discussion though. :D

Cautious Explorer
July 21st, 2008, 04:55 PM
The Sheppard thing, we've been discussing on the whump thread and its his nature to do some of those reckless things, just as its Teyla's personality to try and pacify before she beats the crap out of something. Or Ronon's warrior instinct to kill anything that moves. ;) Or Rodney and his science. It's something inherant in their personalities. I want to know why he does that, and what drives him. I don't think it's a sense of him being self destructive, more that he values someone elses life over his own. And he said this way back in Sateda, that he'd do what Ronon was going to do. If he had to give his life to save his 'family' he would. There's no choice for him it's instinctual.

I love the reckless, protective, self-sacrificing part of Sheppard's nature. And no, I don't think he's at all motivated by any self-destructive tendencies. Maybe that's part of my problem with what seems to be back- to-back suicide runs this season. Going on the rescue mission for Teyla with a temporarily patched up injury, while stretching credibility a little, is understandable because this is an extreme circumstance -- the rescue of one of his team. But the very next episode to offer himself up to test the vaccine, then fly a jumper into the tower to save Keller -- now we're starting to verge on excessive.

Self-sacrifice and death-defying missions along with serious injury should be an infrequent thing, saved for "special occasions" for lack of better words. When it becomes a weekly event, it no longer seems like extraordinary measures, but old hat. Challenges and injuries start to lose importance and the characters start to feel like superheroes instead of real human beings.

That was one of the things I found so distasteful about Carter. Her first mission in Pegaus (the Wraith facility in Reunion), the woman looked bored. In Doppleganger, nothing was new to her, she had a "been there done that" example for everything. I don't want to see anyone in SGA, expecially Sheppard, turn into such a jaded and cartoonish figure.

I hope this was just a case of awkward timing in the episode lineup.


There are also a lot of fans who have become fed up with the McKay/Sheppard show, and we had way too much of the banter IMO and I'm glad the ptb have finally toned it down, and I hope it stays that way. It's not just the Sheppard and McKay show and as much as I enjoy the interaction between Sheppard and McKay I dont want to see them acting like bickering kids each week. It's also nice to see the writers explore other combinations besides Sheppard and McKay.. and after watching Search and Rescue the Ronon/Sheppard interaction is becoming my favourite on the show...
I hope the ptb continue to give equal attention to all of the main 4 cast members and so far season five looks promising.

I agree. Sheppard and McKay was overdone, to the detriment of the team. While I used to love the banter, it grew tiresome with overuse. And I found it very frustrating to have almost every bit of Sheppard's screentime shared with McKay. I'm really enjoying the change in combinations lately. Like you, scenes with Ronon and John are among my favorites. I still love McKay as a part of the team, but he's worn out his welcome with me in any other context.

Koshi700
July 21st, 2008, 05:13 PM
Well, I finally got around to watching The Seed. And I have to say I enjoyed it. I didn't really get a sense of urgency from it. But I enjoyed it and was entertained, and in the end that's really all that matters.

LOVED LOVED LOVED seeing Carson again. I have missed him so much. It was great to see him back in his old role again. I gave a little squee when I heard that lovely accent again. (yeah yeah, I'm hopeless fangirl. :D )

For some reason I didn't find Keller boring this time, which I usually do. I understood her reasons for not wanting to just simply try the cure on Beckette. I mean she hadn't completed her research and had hit a wall, she had no clue if it would work or not and the results held a human life in the balance. They got lucky she had it right. And OMG, I cannot believe I'm defending Keller. :lol: But she wasn't that bad in this episode. Usually I find her boring, and I actually was interested in what she had to say in this ep. Not sure what was different about her but something was. Maybe Jewel has finally found her feet with the character. *shrug* We'll see if the trend continues.

Moving on, I'm not sure I'm particullarly thrilled about them so obviously shipping Rodney and Keller (and Ronon). Not because I don't like Keller, but simply because I can't stand it when TPTB start feeling like they have add in romance to "spice up" the show. All it does is make me roll my eyes and tune out until the scene is over. Romance does not help a show like SGA, at least in my opinion. 9 time out 10 it runis it and bogs it down. If I want a love triangle I'll go watch Grey's Anatomy. Yes, I love character growth and team/friendship moments. But leave the romance to the soap operas and let us enjoy our sci-fi.

Loved Robert Picardo!!! :D I wasn't sure if I was going to like Woolsey but if he stays like he was in this episode, I will. I liked that he was willing to bend but then wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do. Very Woolsey. I also liked that he gave off a sense of, "I'm not sure if I'm cut out for this" and that he was nervous of how the crew would respond to him. At least that was how I read him when he was being greeted by Shep and the gang.

Loved seeing Teyla and the baby. So cute. While I don't want a lot of schmoopy focus on the baby I will enjoy the occasional moment. I mean it's a baby for goodness sake, how can you not enjoy it. :)

Of course I loved seeing Rodney even if most of his point in the ep was to play up the "romance" between him and Keller. I always love seeing Rodney. :)

I was a bit confused on how Shep just waltzed in and gave the shot. I mean the creature was pretty ticked off at this point, and as someone else pointed out ealier, Shep had been cured, he no longer registered as "friend". I'd be thinking the creature would be looking for some fresh meat to much. I guess I'll just have to chalk it up to a BIG plot hole and move on.

Anyways, all in all, I'm encouraged. The last two episodes have felt stronger to me and I'm noticing my interest in SGA being rekindled. Still not overly happy with the cavalier way they disposed of Carter, but that can be forgiven. :)

Shaod
July 21st, 2008, 05:35 PM
Does anyone else think that the only reason why you liked the episode was because it featured Beckett?

Although it was kind of interesting to learn how hive ships are grown.

And how about the whole Mckay v. Ronon to decide who would help Dr. Keller

PG15
July 21st, 2008, 05:37 PM
*cough*

Excuse me while I run screaming for help because I can't find my stash for my solitary drinking games, which I engage in because no one invites me to parties because I'm oh-so-smart, and I like to play with you insides. OMG, I am so out of breath because I so hate exercise.

Oh, BTW, I do have a possible cure for Carson, but I'm afraid to try it, so I'm going to leave him frozen until my boss kicks my butt and orders me to proceed.

Yeah, Keller is a mighty doctor! But not one I would go to.

Seek help.

Seriously.

Yeade
July 21st, 2008, 06:40 PM
Not sure why the baby hive didn't react to Shep. I just thought it was hurt and in a bit of shock from the jumper crashing in, and maybe as you say, it doesn't see humans as a threat unless they do something to alarm it?Whenever I see Sheppard around Wraith technology, my mind immediately goes back to "Conversion" and "Common Ground," lol. I also tend to assume Sheppard's lying by omission about, well, everything personal that hasn't been forced out of him yet. Had to sternly remind myself not to read too much into Sheppard's statement about the baby hive allowing the infected to move freely so long as no overtly threatening moves were made when he'd already been cured. Of this Wraith taint. :p

At any rate, I understand TPTB have addressed this issue. The baby hive considered the jumper and everything in it as one discrete object. Similar to how the stargates work. When the jumper took no further action against it, it dismissed the ship as a threat. Sheppard was a new factor the baby hive had to assess from scratch.
[Re: Sheppard] Why the need to sacrifice his life constantly.. and in the case of Keller, does he really consider her part of his family...I wouldn't say Sheppard has any need to sacrifice his life. He doesn't want to die or land in the infirmary again. Rather, if he feels the situation calls for taking big risks, he won't hesitate to do so. There's a difference between being willing to die and seeking death, IMO.

Though I don't entirely agree with Pegasus_SGA about this kind of self-sacrifice being instinct for Sheppard. His heroics are rooted in a bone-deep need to protect his people, yes, but Sheppard's always struck me as quite calculating when it comes to how he goes about that. He's just capable of seeing himself as a pawn on the larger board and using himself to what he feels is the greatest advantage. Actually, this may be more the mark of a highly intelligent strategist than anything else.

However, bluealien, I think you're selling Sheppard short if you believe he'll only put his life on the line for his adopted family. Which I honestly don't feel ever included Weir, Beckett, or Ford. Beckett's close to McKay, but I never got the impression he's nearly so chummy with Sheppard. There were chain of command issues with Weir and Ford that I think prevented Sheppard from treating them as equals. Something essential to being family, IMO. Well, once you're old enough, lol.

Not that Sheppard wouldn't try as hard to save Weir, Beckett, and Ford as McKay, Teyla, and Ronon. Or that he wouldn't feel as guilty for failing to do so. Personal affection aside, Weir, Beckett, and Ford, like Keller, are all or once were key members of the Atlantis expedition and, as military commander of such, Sheppard apparently takes his responsibility of ensuring everybody's safety very seriously. He has since "Rising," really, when he infiltrated an enemy stronghold blind--the life-sucking aliens who defeated the Ancients--to rescue Sumner, Bates, and a couple Marines. Who didn't even like him much.

Finally, a general comment on grief and other emotional moments in SGA. In one of the BSG vs. SGA threads, I wrote that the difference between how the two shows present psychological drama boils down to: 1) SGA having a vague timeframe much longer than BSG's and a more relaxed overall atmosphere with lots of opportunity to wind down. 2) The emotional responses of choice on SGA being denial, avoidance, sublimation, repression, and denial again, with a side of sarcasm. All characterized more by a lack of reaction. 3) TPTB of SGA being averse to showing characters in private or unaware. Possibly because the show largely presents a third-person limited POV.

These are creative and stylistic choices that either work for you or don't. Not much point in arguing about which approach is better when it's all subjective, IMO.

Koshi700
July 21st, 2008, 06:50 PM
Does anyone else think that the only reason why you liked the episode was because it featured Beckett?

Although it was kind of interesting to learn how hive ships are grown.

And how about the whole Mckay v. Ronon to decide who would help Dr. Keller

No, I wouldn't say that Beckett being in the ep was the ONLY reason I enjoyed the episode. I listed several other things that made me enjoy the episode. I won't deny that I truly enjoyed that Carson was back or that it is was one of my favorite things about the ep. Is there something wrong with that???

The hive thing was cool.

Not sure about the McKay v. Ronon thing. As I stated before, I'm not too keen on the whole love triangle thing.

joannej
July 21st, 2008, 07:53 PM
I was very disappointed with the seed. I still think the woolsy character is going to be the destruction of the show. Until now I have been a hard core fan. Guess I'll wait a few more episodes but don't have much faith in the new season

pjt
July 21st, 2008, 10:11 PM
[/COLOR] Bottle it up and cry in private? Show it.

Ew. This is a sci-fi series, it's called Stargate Atlantis, not Dallas Atlantis, or Beverly Hills Atlantis. (shudders)

katikatnik
July 21st, 2008, 11:26 PM
Ew. This is a sci-fi series, it's called Stargate Atlantis, not Dallas Atlantis, or Beverly Hills Atlantis. (shudders)

I couldn't agree more. It's a sci-fi/action series, so please, less romance/emo, more butt kicking!

I didn't like the whole UST between Sam and Jack on SG-1 and I don't like the relationship between McKay and Keller here - BTW, didn't they do the whole "awkward scientists in love" scenario with Katie Brown already? I like Keller as a character and I hate to see her demoted to a blond love interest. And yes, I quite dislike it when some fans - and I am saying some, not all, just a disclaimer here - of various ships accuse fans who don't like those ships of being jealous. Like, for real? :confused:

Also, I didn't like Beckett in this episode. I like him as a character but in this ep, he was the weakest link, IMHO. His presence was literally manic in places and to me, it felt like he totally disrupted the chemistry between the characters.

Alipeeps
July 21st, 2008, 11:35 PM
More so, it's the lenght of time in which they "got over" the deaths of Weir and Beckett, as opposed to the departure of Carter. I think we can assume that 2 months didn't pass between Sunday and Submersion, or between Lifeline and Reunion. The point is, it seems as though a greater emphasis was placed on Carter's departure than Weir and Beckett's deaths. A sudden death is something you can't prepare for, and it takes longer to get over. And it's not so much with Woolsey and Keller, who don't seem to be close with the team at all, as it is with Carter. And, this is concerning Teyla and Shepaprd's statements about her, more so Teyla, who said that Carter's absence was difficult to deal with. That is OTT to me. That was never implied in the loss of Weir or Beckett. All that was said was Teyla saying, "I feel a great deal of sadness" for Beckett, and Mckay eight eps later saying he missed Weir. They were not shown to be getting over their deaths. Remember SG-1, when Daniel died. They actually showed Carter having to deal with her loss. That's what SGA should have shown. And, I know one must get over it, but frankly, it should have been on screen.

The difference is, they had to explain why Carter wasn't there. With both Weir and Beckett, we'd seen what happened to them, we'd been "shown" why they were no longer in Atlantis. Because of the nature of Amanda leaving the show, they had to, after just one episode, explain to the viewers why Carter was no longer in Atlantis. She didn't die or go missing in action, so they had to have a scene with some dialogue to try to rationally explain her absence. They had to "tell" us why she was gone.

It's not a case of Carter's departure being more important than Weir's or Beckett's or affecting the team more, it's just the need to quickly impart the information to the audience to wrap up that plot point.



» Bottle it up and cry in private? Show it.

And if they did show us e.g. Sheppard crying his eyes out with grief, there would immediately be cries of "OOC".

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 11:42 PM
I saw little bits of mourning om screen. They can't devote a whole episode to mourn someone death. When Daniel ascended their were only a few tiny bits about his death/ascension, Also bear in mind people mourn in different ways. When my grandfather died I kept it bottled up and cried in private
Absolutely. Sunday, for example, showed me exactly how affected each character was by Carson's death. I didn't need to see anymore. Life goes on. It'd get boring pretty quickly if each week I was hearing about Carson, Weir, Ford, or whoever isn't around anymore. Just the odd mention was good enough for me, and I think we have had that.

» And then there's lots of subtext open to viewer interpretation. Teyla and John both think about Elizabeth in S&R, but probably no one except us angsty Anti's would notice it.

» Bottle it up and cry in private? Show it.
No thanks. I don't want to see it.

Does anyone else think that the only reason why you liked the episode was because it featured Beckett?

Although it was kind of interesting to learn how hive ships are grown.

And how about the whole Mckay v. Ronon to decide who would help Dr. Keller
To be honest, I wasn't overly impressed with Carson in this episode. He seemed...out of sorts for various reasons. He was fine, but nothing exceptional for me, to be honest. So, his being there didn't make me enjoy the episode more, no. I liked the story, pure and simple.

Whenever I see Sheppard around Wraith technology, my mind immediately goes back to "Conversion" and "Common Ground," lol. I also tend to assume Sheppard's lying by omission about, well, everything personal that hasn't been forced out of him yet. Had to sternly remind myself not to read too much into Sheppard's statement about the baby hive allowing the infected to move freely so long as no overtly threatening moves were made when he'd already been cured. Of this Wraith taint. :p

:lol: You make a good point though.




At any rate, I understand TPTB have addressed this issue. The baby hive considered the jumper and everything in it as one discrete object. Similar to how the stargates work. When the jumper took no further action against it, it dismissed the ship as a threat. Sheppard was a new factor the baby hive had to assess from scratch.I wouldn't say Sheppard has any need to sacrifice his life. He doesn't want to die or land in the infirmary again. Rather, if he feels the situation calls for taking big risks, he won't hesitate to do so. There's a difference between being willing to die and seeking death, IMO.


I agree. :)


Though I don't entirely agree with Pegasus_SGA about this kind of self-sacrifice being instinct for Sheppard. His heroics are rooted in a bone-deep need to protect his people, yes, but Sheppard's always struck me as quite calculating when it comes to how he goes about that. He's just capable of seeing himself as a pawn on the larger board and using himself to what he feels is the greatest advantage. Actually, this may be more the mark of a highly intelligent strategist than anything else.

Good points again. I think Sheppard is a talented and brilliant strategist. I have never thought as Sheppard as self-sacrificing per se. More that he'll do what's necessary to get the job done. He actually seems to value his health and well-being etc... However, he'd die for his family, no question. Then again, wouldn't most of us? He'd also die doing his job.



However, bluealien, I think you're selling Sheppard short if you believe he'll only put his life on the line for his adopted family. Which I honestly don't feel ever included Weir, Beckett, or Ford. Beckett's close to McKay, but I never got the impression he's nearly so chummy with Sheppard. There were chain of command issues with Weir and Ford that I think prevented Sheppard from treating them as equals. Something essential to being family, IMO. Well, once you're old enough, lol.

I agree here. Sheppard would put his life on the line to do his job. He's very professional in that respect and takes his responsibilites seriously. He can be reckless, yes, and hot-headed, but as in The Seed, he does what he does to get the job done quickly without endangering people, or his perception of that. I never got the impression Sheppard was especially close to Beckett, though he obviously was fond of him. Same with Ford. Ford was his subordinate and a team member who Sheppard felt he'd failed. Ford was young, and rather looked up to Sheppard, and Sheppard has felt he'd not protected Ford and helped him when he should have as a CO and team mate. As far as Weir goes, I have no doubt Shep was very fond of her, but she was his boss. And you can never have a closeness to your boss the way you do with your team, there always has to be a professional distance there. Weir and Sheppard never hung out like Shep did with his team, and I've not seen evidence that Shep hung out with Beckett either. He may have done with Ford, but again, the chain of command thing would have meant the two never had a strong friendship as such. I think Sheppard has found family with his team more than anyone else, and I do wonder if that's common in that situation? Obviously the team has been together longer than most military teams would, I'm guessing?

What was interesting for me here, is that for the first time I saw Sheppard caring about Keller. He was concerned she was working too hard and needed rest, and seemed really alarmed as to what was happening to her. I've not seen that before really. So, I think as far as I'm concerned, she's becoming one of Sheppard's extended family now. I always felt Weir and Beckett were important to Sheppard, but not as much as his team. So I think his concern for Keller fits in with how Sheppard is really.


Not that Sheppard wouldn't try as hard to save Weir, Beckett, and Ford as McKay, Teyla, and Ronon.

Absolutely. He'd fight just as hard to save them equally, I think.


Or that he wouldn't feel as guilty for failing to do so. Personal affection aside, Weir, Beckett, and Ford, like Keller, are all or once were key members of the Atlantis expedition and, as military commander of such, Sheppard apparently takes his responsibility of ensuring everybody's safety very seriously. He has since "Rising," really, when he infiltrated an enemy stronghold blind--the life-sucking aliens who defeated the Ancients--to rescue Sumner, Bates, and a couple Marines. Who didn't even like him much.

Indeed. And that's rather at odds with the man who fell out with his family and didn't have strong ties to Earth somewhat. But, as you say, he wants to save everyone from a professional viewpoint too. I remember on Inferno, Caldwell criticising Sheppard for not leaving sooner because he wanted to save everyone. I think he would save everyone if he could because he takes his job seriously. However, I don't feel it's ever been dealt with properly on the show as to WHY he feels that way, or as to why it's such a strong compulsion for him. Did someone leave him behind once? Just a thought.




Finally, a general comment on grief and other emotional moments in SGA. In one of the BSG vs. SGA threads, I wrote that the difference between how the two shows present psychological drama boils down to: 1) SGA having a vague timeframe much longer than BSG's and a more relaxed overall atmosphere with lots of opportunity to wind down. 2) The emotional responses of choice on SGA being denial, avoidance, sublimation, repression, and denial again, with a side of sarcasm. All characterized more by a lack of reaction. 3) TPTB of SGA being averse to showing characters in private or unaware. Possibly because the show largely presents a third-person limited POV.

These are creative and stylistic choices that either work for you or don't. Not much point in arguing about which approach is better when it's all subjective, IMO.
I see what you're saying here. I'm not a fan of big, emotional drama style things generally. After a while I feel battered and bruised. Sometimes I like caring, but more of a played down response to things. I've always found Stargate sometimes leaves me wanting more. I've felt frustrated at times. Why don't characters express how they feel? Why aren't they honest? Why don't they say what they're thinking? Then I look at my life, and people around me. And I realised it's pretty much how real life can be. Life isn't one long soap opera for me. I often curb my thoughts and emotions around people so as not to upset them, and I'm sure they do the same around me, for the sake of peaceful co-existence. Sometimes I have to bite my tongue. So, for me, I quite like SGA's approach.

As you say, it's totally subjective. I actually am not a fan of BSG's approach, personally. So, I can't really compare it with SGA, because I don't enjoy its style very much. Whereas, with SGA, I generally get what I want from it.

All of this brings me back to The Seed. I really enjoyed it - it's as simple as that. For me, it's about the story, the look but mostly the characters. I liked the characterisations here. I like the interactions between Woolsey and Sheppard. I loved Rodney's little defiant 'I'm not standing up' stance when Woolsey arrive, even though he caved in the end. I enjoyed Woolsey realising that you can't be 'by the book' in the Pegasus Galaxy. Just these little things really made the episode appealing to me.

JF said recently that the show was telling more sophisticated stories now, and I have to agree. There seem to be more layers for me to look at. Things I might miss first time round. Others will disagree with me, I'm certain. But I do feel a concerted effort has been made to give us more depth and a more individual style to SGA. So, for me, The Seed succeeds as a compelling piece of drama.

Ew. This is a sci-fi series, it's called Stargate Atlantis, not Dallas Atlantis, or Beverly Hills Atlantis. (shudders)


Agreed. (Shudders as well!) :eek:

Linzi
July 21st, 2008, 11:58 PM
The difference is, they had to explain why Carter wasn't there. With both Weir and Beckett, we'd seen what happened to them, we'd been "shown" why they were no longer in Atlantis. Because of the nature of Amanda leaving the show, they had to, after just one episode, explain to the viewers why Carter was no longer in Atlantis. She didn't die or go missing in action, so they had to have a scene with some dialogue to try to rationally explain her absence. They had to "tell" us why she was gone.

It's not a case of Carter's departure being more important than Weir's or Beckett's or affecting the team more, it's just the need to quickly impart the information to the audience to wrap up that plot point.



Good point. We did need an explanation of why Carter had been replaced. We got none in S and R, and it was sorely needed here. We all knew what had happened to Carson, Weir and Ford and it needed no further explanation to the audience in that respect.




And if they did show us e.g. Sheppard crying his eyes out with grief, there would immediately be cries of "OOC".

There would be from me :lol: I don't want to see characters booing their eyes out, especially Sheppard. That'd be so OOC I'd throw something at the screen. When Carson died, Weir didn't cry. She held herself together, and was totally professional, as did Sheppard, McKay, Ronon and Teyla. They all looked emotional, but controlled, and I found that more realistic then them breaking down in public. These are people who are used to death. It might hurt them terribly, but they get on with it and set an example to those around them, IMO. I've always thought in a military environment that's what happens, and on Atlantis, with there being so much danger at times, I just think the balance is right. Even the civilians are somehow hardened to death. It's so easy to for shows to become cheesy and to have a character die and it be so over the top, it's sickening, and I'm glad SGA isn't like that. Obviously for me, that a personal choice thing, but it is one of the reasons I like SGA :) Also, when we do get an emotional scene, it's so much more rewarding, IMO.

thekillman
July 22nd, 2008, 12:08 AM
i like the mckay/shep banter. but it should become more... subtile. those two will [hopefully] never like eachother fully. it cant be. just have to be more subtile. like, mckay is working, and he doesnt know if it will work, and sheppard is like "as long as the planet doesnt blow, im fine"

Alipeeps
July 22nd, 2008, 12:12 AM
i like the mckay/shep banter. but it should become more... subtile. those two will [hopefully] never like eachother fully. it cant be. just have to be more subtile. like, mckay is working, and he doesnt know if it will work, and sheppard is like "as long as the planet doesnt blow, im fine"

You think they don't fully like each other? :confused:

I think it's been portrayed right from Hide and Seek that Sheppard and McKay get on well and are good friends. Their snark and banter is a part of that - it's their sense of humour, it's just how they are. The fact that they insult each other doesn't mean they don't fully like each other, on the contrary it is how they express their affection for each other. :)

pjt
July 22nd, 2008, 12:49 AM
More so, it's the lenght of time in which they "got over" the deaths of Weir and Beckett, as opposed to the departure of Carter. I think we can assume that 2 months didn't pass between Sunday and Submersion, or between Lifeline and Reunion. The point is, it seems as though a greater emphasis was placed on Carter's departure than Weir and Beckett's deaths.

I'm slowly getting to understand, how the scene should have been written:
DEX: I don't get it. I thought Colonel Carter was doing a good job.

TEYLA: Sort of. Well, we defeated the Replicators, but that's not that much. Do you know who did excellent jobs? Dr. Elizabeth Wier and Dr. Carson Beckett.

SHEPPARD: (sobbing) I so miss Elizabeth.

McKAY: Me too. (closeup on a teardrop down his cheek)

TEYLA: (sad but positive) At least we may have Dr. Beckett back.

McKAY: (losing it) HE'S JUST A CLONE! (runs out wailing)

WOOLSEY: (enters room) C'mon children settle down, it'll all be alright in a couple of seasons, you'll see. Okay then, will somebody tell Dr. McKay to come back, so we can have this briefing. (to Dr. Keller) Not you, no shipping today!

Alipeeps
July 22nd, 2008, 12:52 AM
:lol: Darn it pjt, it won't let me green you! Have some mental green. :D

senilegreen
July 22nd, 2008, 01:39 AM
So far this season has been a disappointment for me. The story lines are over-riding the continuity of the characters' development lines. Best example is Teyla in this episode - she is a new mother (!!!) yet even though in earlier episodes is was clear she was conflicted (and so was Shep) with the responsibilities of being a mother and also being on a military team, somehow here all of that is lost in the bravado to go shoot'em-up.

Over the years one problem has crept up over and over with the Stargate franchise - divergent demographics among the intended audience(s). The need to have a neatly packaged 42 minute shoot-em-up for the young male audience makes it difficult to have truly realistic drama. My interest in the Stargate productions have been waning for a few years now, and especially with Atlantis as the writers can't seem to make up their minds about whether the show should be a serious drama (in the sci-fi genre) or a cowboy-and-indians remake in space, for the after-school crowd.

Linzi
July 22nd, 2008, 01:39 AM
I'm slowly getting to understand, how the scene should have been written:
DEX: I don't get it. I thought Colonel Carter was doing a good job.

TEYLA: Sort of. Well, we defeated the Replicators, but that's not that much. Do you know who did excellent jobs? Dr. Elizabeth Wier and Dr. Carson Beckett.

SHEPPARD: (sobbing) I so miss Elizabeth.

McKAY: Me too. (closeup on a teardrop down his cheek)

TEYLA: (sad but positive) At least we may have Dr. Beckett back.

McKAY: (losing it) HE'S JUST A CLONE! (runs out wailing)

WOOLSEY: (enters room) C'mon children settle down, it'll all be alright in a couple of seasons, you'll see. Okay then, will somebody tell Dr. McKay to come back, so we can have this briefing. (to Dr. Keller) Not you, no shipping today!
:lol:

I just spat tea over the keyboard! Very funny! :D

Alipeeps
July 22nd, 2008, 01:46 AM
So far this season has been a disappointment for me. The story lines are over-riding the continuity of the characters' development lines. Best example is Teyla in this episode - she is a new mother (!!!) yet even though in earlier episodes is was clear she was conflicted (and so was Shep) with the responsibilities of being a mother and also being on a military team, somehow here all of that is lost in the bravado to go shoot'em-up.

I don't think Teyla's actions in this episode are any indication that any possible conflict about her being on an active gate team have been dropped/resolved. She is not on active duty in this episode and is not going off-world... but this didn't happen off-world. The place where she - and her baby - live was under threat and she did her part to help combat that threat. I don't think it would be in her character in such a situation to sit back and say, "Okay, you guys deal with this. I'm going to go wait in my quarters with my baby and hope it all turns out for the best. Let me know when you've saved the day."

Also, when she went with Radek to check the power conduits, it was just supposed to be a visual inspection. Sure she went armed - it would be silly to do otherwise - but at this point, until it attacked Radek, they had no idea it could do that and physically attack people.

Cautious Explorer
July 22nd, 2008, 04:26 AM
Good point. We did need an explanation of why Carter had been replaced. We got none in S and R, and it was sorely needed here. We all knew what had happened to Carson, Weir and Ford and it needed no further explanation to the audience in that respect.


But it wasn't the fact that there was an explanation, but the nature of the explanation that annoyed me. In S&R we had Sheppard and McKay throwing accolades at Carter. Now this week we have Teyla reciting Carter's "accomplishments" under her watch and Sheppard explaining that in his opinion, Carter was removed because she's just too good at her job.

It felt to me like the writers were trying to sell Carter. I didn't see all her heroic accomplishments in SG-1 (never got in to the show), and they didn't show me anything special about her when she arrived in Atlantis. It took me out of the show. It didn't feel right. Too much like a commercial maybe.

Oh well. She's gone now. Maybe the characters can stop singing her praises now that she's officially written out of the show and moved on to new pastures. :)

pjt
July 22nd, 2008, 04:34 AM
Oh well. She's gone now. Maybe the characters can stop singing her praises now that she's officially written out of the show and moved on to new pastures. :)

I'm sorry, but I got some bad news for you. She'll be back...

Cautious Explorer
July 22nd, 2008, 04:38 AM
I'm sorry, but I got some bad news for you. She'll be back...

Maybe for a cameo, but even that's not guaranteed.

Don't ruin my happiness. I can still celebrate that Carter is no longer a regular part of Atlantis. Already Woolsey is a better fit IMO.

Linzi
July 22nd, 2008, 04:47 AM
But it wasn't the fact that there was an explanation, but the nature of the explanation that annoyed me. In S&R we had Sheppard and McKay throwing accolades at Carter. Now this week we have Teyla reciting Carter's "accomplishments" under her watch and Sheppard explaining that in his opinion, Carter was removed because she's just too good at her job.

It felt to me like the writers were trying to sell Carter. I didn't see all her heroic accomplishments in SG-1 (never got in to the show), and they didn't show me anything special about her when she arrived in Atlantis. It took me out of the show. It didn't feel right. Too much like a commercial maybe.

Oh well. She's gone now. Maybe the characters can stop singing her praises now that she's officially written out of the show and moved on to new pastures. :)
I'm not sure the writers have to sell anything to us as viewers as far as Carter's concerned - they certainly didn't need to sell Carter to me, and some other viewers, I suspect.

However, I think the point was perhaps also that the IOA had been waiting to jump in and take over the running of the expedition with a person of their choice, and because the threat level appears to have subsided they felt they could relieve Carter of command and bring in an IOA person of their choice. I think it's important to note, that when a new 'manager' takes over, if many things are achieved under their command - even if they're in command for a relatively short period, then they take the credit, even if they perhaps haven't been instrumental in the success of some of those things. At the end of the day, the hierarchy everywhere looks at the present results of their subordinates, and whosoever is in charge at that moment gets the praise or criticism. It's not necessarily fair, but it's the way it is.

I did need an explanation as to why Carter was replaced. I felt S and R left too many questions unanswered about Carter's removal. So, for me, I was glad to hear she had basically been credited with making the Pegasus galaxy a safer place and that she'd done well. Because I didn't see her doing anything wrong in her time as leader, and if she'd been removed because of her poor leadership skills, I'd have not agreed and would have questioned that she'd been removed as a plot device, whereas now I understand the manipulative IOA's motives, and to me, I feel satisfied with the direction the leadership has been taken in. That was important to me. As to support Woolsey in charge, I needed to understand why Carter was removed and why he was given her role. Now it makes sense, to me. I'm not sure the IOA is correct, but it does make sense from what I know of them previously.

pjt
July 22nd, 2008, 04:50 AM
Maybe for a cameo, but even that's not guaranteed.

She actually has a contract for two episodes this year, and it's left open if she's available for more, depending on Sanctuary.

Cautious Explorer
July 22nd, 2008, 04:53 AM
She actually has a contract for two episodes this year, and it's left open if she's available for more, depending on Sanctuary.

Well, S&R was one. That leaves one more and a big maybe. I can live with it. :)

Cautious Explorer
July 22nd, 2008, 06:44 AM
I'm not sure the writers have to sell anything to us as viewers as far as Carter's concerned - they certainly didn't need to sell Carter to me, and some other viewers, I suspect.

I'm sure there were plenty of people who knew and liked Carter from SG-1. But there were also SGA fans that didn't know her except for a couple of brief guest spots on the show. To me it felt like TPTB couldn't be bothered to show me a reason to like and admire Carter. They preferred to tell me that she was a hero, a genius, a legend in her own time. In that sense, I think they were trying to sell her, and S&R and The Seed were more of the same.


However, I think the point was perhaps also that the IOA had been waiting to jump in and take over the running of the expedition with a person of their choice, and because the threat level appears to have subsided they felt they could relieve Carter of command and bring in an IOA person of their choice. I think it's important to note, that when a new 'manager' takes over, if many things are achieved under their command - even if they're in command for a relatively short period, then they take the credit, even if they perhaps haven't been instrumental in the success of some of those things. At the end of the day, the hierarchy everywhere looks at the present results of their subordinates, and whosoever is in charge at that moment gets the praise or criticism. It's not necessarily fair, but it's the way it is.

I agee that the IOA was waiting for their chance. It makes sense. I just thought the there could have been more straight forward explanation and less rapsodizing of Carter. It just felt to me like they were pointing out how the SG-1 hero had to come in and save the day. It bugged me.

It's common enough for the person in charge to take all the credit. But it's usually done in press releases, etc. -- not by the people who actually did all the work.



I did need an explanation as to why Carter was replaced. I felt S and R left too many questions unanswered about Carter's removal. So, for me, I was glad to hear she had basically been credited with making the Pegasus galaxy a safer place and that she'd done well. Because I didn't see her doing anything wrong in her time as leader, and if she'd been removed because of her poor leadership skills, I'd have not agreed and would have questioned that she'd been removed as a plot device, whereas now I understand the manipulative IOA's motives, and to me, I feel satisfied with the direction the leadership has been taken in. That was important to me. As to support Woolsey in charge, I needed to understand why Carter was removed and why he was given her role. Now it makes sense, to me. I'm not sure the IOA is correct, but it does make sense from what I know of them previously.

That's exactly why I took issue with it. She didn't make the Pegasus galaxy safer. She came in at the tail end and benefited from a lot of things that had already been set in motion. Carter was barely there and was shown doing very little while she was commander. I didn't see her making tough decisions or handling conflicts within the city. She was barely a presence for me. I didn't read it as Carter being removed for poor performance in the first place. She didn't do anything. How could she make mistakes?

An explanation of why she left is fine. I just think they could have done it without practically canonizing her for sainthood.

CazzBlade
July 22nd, 2008, 07:33 AM
:eek: For once I'm disagreeing with Linzi! There must be something wrong with me :P

Gotta agree with ya on Carter Cautious Explorer, and I did watch SG1 :o

JohnDuh
July 22nd, 2008, 08:12 AM
I have a feeling they are going to do an ID4. The Atlantis Expedition finds the ultimate "Wraith Mothership" & makes enough of the cure to put into the mothership & then the cure spreads through every single hive ship ever made & still around & therefore taking care of the wraith

But then they would have gotten rid of the "big bad" - they wouldn't know what to write then :)

Linzi
July 22nd, 2008, 08:21 AM
I'm sure there were plenty of people who knew and liked Carter from SG-1. But there were also SGA fans that didn't know her except for a couple of brief guest spots on the show. To me it felt like TPTB couldn't be bothered to show me a reason to like and admire Carter. They preferred to tell me that she was a hero, a genius, a legend in her own time. In that sense, I think they were trying to sell her, and S&R and The Seed were more of the same.

I don't see Carter as a legend in her own time really. I'd agree her presence on Atlantis wasn't played to its full advantage, so I do understand what you're saying here. She didn't do enough for me sometimes, as well. But there were times, as leader, particularly in The Seer, where I do feel she showed her leadership style well.





I agee that the IOA was waiting for their chance. It makes sense. I just thought the there could have been more straight forward explanation and less rapsodizing of Carter. It just felt to me like they were pointing out how the SG-1 hero had to come in and save the day. It bugged me.

It's common enough for the person in charge to take all the credit. But it's usually done in press releases, etc. -- not by the people who actually did all the work.

See, I didn't see them rapsodizing Carter either. In fact, McKay said she wasn't by the book, same with Weir. Thus there was an admittance that she might not be seen by the IOA as a saint, hero or legend etc.

The thing is, just because Sheppard said she was an apparent victim of her own success doesn't mean he thought it was all down to her. He was looking at it from the perspective of the IOA, perhaps, who were looking for a reason to replace her with one of their own. I don't see those scenes as canonising Carter. I see them as complimentary, sure, and explaining what Shep et al thought the reasons behind her replacement were, but of course, officially, ie, from the IOA, we've not actually heard the reasons as yet.






That's exactly why I took issue with it. She didn't make the Pegasus galaxy safer. She came in at the tail end and benefited from a lot of things that had already been set in motion. Carter was barely there and was shown doing very little while she was commander. I didn't see her making tough decisions or handling conflicts within the city. She was barely a presence for me. I didn't read it as Carter being removed for poor performance in the first place. She didn't do anything. How could she make mistakes?

An explanation of why she left is fine. I just think they could have done it without practically canonizing her for sainthood.
When I watched the end of S and R, I did get the impression she'd been removed abruptly and I did wonder if she was seen as not being successful, so I didn't view those scenes the same way as you did. There are different ways of interpreting scenes, and I thought Carter's dismissal was shocking, dramatic and not very nicely done. So, yeah, I did wonder if she'd been removed for poor performance. I couldn't think why that would happen though, which was why I was keen for an explanation on the situation.

Again, I thought Shep et al were complimentary, but I don't see those scenes as being over the top or making Carter out to be perfect. At the end of the day, we'll have to agree to have different perspectives on those scenes. :)

:eek: For once I'm disagreeing with Linzi! There must be something wrong with me :P

Gotta agree with ya on Carter Cautious Explorer, and I did watch SG1 :o


:lol: I won't share my ginger cake with you! How dare you have your own opinions! What happened to the hive collective minds thingy then? ;) :D

jelgate
July 22nd, 2008, 08:33 AM
I'm slowly getting to understand, how the scene should have been written:
DEX: I don't get it. I thought Colonel Carter was doing a good job.

TEYLA: Sort of. Well, we defeated the Replicators, but that's not that much. Do you know who did excellent jobs? Dr. Elizabeth Wier and Dr. Carson Beckett.

SHEPPARD: (sobbing) I so miss Elizabeth.

McKAY: Me too. (closeup on a teardrop down his cheek)

TEYLA: (sad but positive) At least we may have Dr. Beckett back.

McKAY: (losing it) HE'S JUST A CLONE! (runs out wailing)

WOOLSEY: (enters room) C'mon children settle down, it'll all be alright in a couple of seasons, you'll see. Okay then, will somebody tell Dr. McKay to come back, so we can have this briefing. (to Dr. Keller) Not you, no shipping today!

I think I brusied something laughing at that one

Cautious Explorer
July 22nd, 2008, 08:57 AM
I don't see Carter as a legend in her own time really. I'd agree her presence on Atlantis wasn't played to its full advantage, so I do understand what you're saying here. She didn't do enough for me sometimes, as well. But there were times, as leader, particularly in The Seer, where I do feel she showed her leadership style well.



See, I didn't see them rapsodizing Carter either. In fact, McKay said she wasn't by the book, same with Weir. Thus there was an admittance that she might not be seen by the IOA as a saint, hero or legend etc.

The thing is, just because Sheppard said she was an apparent victim of her own success doesn't mean he thought it was all down to her. He was looking at it from the perspective of the IOA, perhaps, who were looking for a reason to replace her with one of their own. I don't see those scenes as canonising Carter. I see them as complimentary, sure, and explaining what Shep et al thought the reasons behind her replacement were, but of course, officially, ie, from the IOA, we've not actually heard the reasons as yet.

But in the SGA world, not going "by the book" is a compliment. So is being unappreciated by the IOA. The IOA is seen as a bunch of uninformed bureaucrats with no real world experience. Just more ways of saying how much the team appreciated Carter.

I would have been far more interested in hearing the IOA's real reasons for dismissing Carter instead of Sheppard and crew's complimentary guesses. But I don't think that would have served TPTB's purpose.




When I watched the end of S and R, I did get the impression she'd been removed abruptly and I did wonder if she was seen as not being successful, so I didn't view those scenes the same way as you did. There are different ways of interpreting scenes, and I thought Carter's dismissal was shocking, dramatic and not very nicely done. So, yeah, I did wonder if she'd been removed for poor performance. I couldn't think why that would happen though, which was why I was keen for an explanation on the situation.

Again, I thought Shep et al were complimentary, but I don't see those scenes as being over the top or making Carter out to be perfect. At the end of the day, we'll have to agree to have different perspectives on those scenes. :)

If the SGA group were more expressive and threw compliments around more casually, it wouldn't have struck me as over the top either. And since I never felt that Carter was one of the group, I'm probably finding it far more intrusive than others might.

As I said, it made me feel like their was an implication that the SGA folks weren't competent to handle things in Pegasus without the help of the mighty SG-1. Just my perspective as someone who doesn't watch SG-1 and has no investment in those characters.

Yeade
July 22nd, 2008, 09:10 AM
I think we can assume that 2 months didn't pass between Sunday and Submersion, or between Lifeline and Reunion.Forgot to address this. Do you really believe the IOA came to a consensus on the new leader of Atlantis in a week? Personally, I figured at least two weeks between "Lifeline" and "Reunion." More if Carter spent one or both legs of her round trip back to Earth on the Apollo or the Deddy.

edit: Watched "Lifeline" and "Reunion" again. Carter gated to and from Earth. Probably via the midway station. Still, I think it's likely she spent a week or so tying up loose ends after the IOA appointed her to Atlantis.

As for the time lag from "Sunday" to "Submersion," seeing as how McKay flew to Scotland to visit Beckett's family and attend the funeral there, I bet a week slipped by between the ceremony in the gate room and Rodney's farewell to Carson at the end of the episode. Six months have passed since "Sunday" by "The Kindred." With the "First Strike"/"Adrift"/"Lifeline" and "This Mortal Coil"/"Be All My Sins Remember'd"/"Spoils of War" triplets happening in quick succession as well as my theorized two weeks or so from "Lifeline" to "Reunion," there are fourteen episodes to spread out over the remaining five months plus. If Atlantis had a couple particularly busy weeks, you can squeeze a month easy, maybe two, between "Sunday" and "Submersion."

edit: Watched "The Kindred" again. McKay actually says "Sunday" was six months after "Misbegotten." Which kind of throws off all my calculations, lol. Doesn't change my point, however. Assuming S3 was at least nine months or three-quarters of a year, there are only three episodes to fill the remaining time. With even spacing, that's a solid month between "Sunday" and "Submersion."

TPTB seem to have become more conscious of noting time passage since late S4. Beckett was frozen for two months from "The Kindred" to "The Seed." "Search and Rescue" directly followed "The Last Man," but Sheppard spent twelve days missing in that episode. Subtract the month between "Search and Rescue" and "The Seed," and Teyla was in Michael's hands for about three or four weeks. Likewise, it's clear "The Seed" happened over the course of two or three days. Note also that though, as of "Search and Rescue," the Atlantis expedition has been in Pegasus for four years, S4 only accounts for nine or so months of that time, roughly coinciding with Teyla's pregnancy. Which means the other seasons must pick up the slack.

So, don't assume the airing schedule or episode lengths accurately reflect the in-universe timeline.
I think Sheppard is a talented and brilliant strategist.Pretty sure I got distracted by the fact that Sheppard's a crazy person. :p

I recently did an exhaustive review of the tactical options open to the Atlantis expedition in "Rising." Somewhat to my surprise, I found myself agreeing with Sheppard that trying to rescue Sumner et al. was the right thing to do given what was known of the situation at the time. The actual mission turned out to be pretty sound, too, IMO. Even Sheppard's staking of the Keeper.

Now I'm reconsidering whether Sheppard's truly as reckless as his reputation says. He takes big risks, yes, but he's often faced with big problems that are basically unresolvable without running a significant degree of risk. Sheppard's always going to put lives before objectives first, I think. However, that doesn't mean he ignores objectives or can't see later that an objective is more important than the lives lost.

Being reckless implies to me that you're blind to or uncaring of how dangerous your actions are. That doesn't fit with my view of Sheppard as a rather calculating thinker. Maybe it's more that he weighs the possibilities and chooses the one best in line with his personal ethics as well as his military training and position. Folks just disagree with his worldview. Doesn't help that he isn't good at articulating why he feels a course of action is right. Or that I'm not certain he's aware where in his head these crazy yet ultimately working plans come from.
I think Sheppard has found family with his team more than anyone else, and I do wonder if that's common in that situation?Agreed. And I do think interacting closely with the same three people for three years has something to do with the strength of the bonds on Sheppard's team. SG-1, too. Then there's the whole intrepid space explorers thing. All the life-or-death situations aside, stargate teams probably all develop a certain understanding over weird shared experiences, lol.
What was interesting for me here, is that for the first time I saw Sheppard caring about Keller.To be sure, we have little idea how Sheppard acts when there isn't a crisis. For all we know, he routinely checks that people on long or stressful assignments get enough rest and leave.

Actually, I think the entire senior staff does this or else Atlantis personnel would work themselves to nervous breakdowns, lol. Sheppard's likely largely concerned with the military contingent but, given his friendship with McKay and responsibility in protecting the city, he may occasionally take an interest in the civilians, too. Certainly, he'd watch out for his peers in command, who nobody else can order around, and Keller is CMO. Atlantis really has a tight group at the top. Figure that's the only reason why this wacky setup hasn't gone down in the flames. :p

I do have some thoughts on why Sheppard's the way he is but, at this point, I feel like I'm straying way off-topic, lol.

On the subject of Carter, er, I got nothing. Everyone's already said everything I have to say about the episode! :o

JohnDuh
July 22nd, 2008, 09:34 AM
LOL!!!!!!! And if she had said "there's a chance it could kill him, but I'll try it" right off the bat, everyone would have been talking about how "reckless" and "unprofessional" she was. "Beckett wouldn't have risked her life like that!"

Quite right. Anything to whine ;)

Mitchell82
July 22nd, 2008, 09:40 AM
I'm slowly getting to understand, how the scene should have been written:
DEX: I don't get it. I thought Colonel Carter was doing a good job.

TEYLA: Sort of. Well, we defeated the Replicators, but that's not that much. Do you know who did excellent jobs? Dr. Elizabeth Wier and Dr. Carson Beckett.

SHEPPARD: (sobbing) I so miss Elizabeth.

McKAY: Me too. (closeup on a teardrop down his cheek)

TEYLA: (sad but positive) At least we may have Dr. Beckett back.

McKAY: (losing it) HE'S JUST A CLONE! (runs out wailing)

WOOLSEY: (enters room) C'mon children settle down, it'll all be alright in a couple of seasons, you'll see. Okay then, will somebody tell Dr. McKay to come back, so we can have this briefing. (to Dr. Keller) Not you, no shipping today!
ROTFLMAO! My nose hurts now. Why was I drinking soda when I read this.;)

Mitchell82
July 22nd, 2008, 09:44 AM
Ew. This is a sci-fi series, it's called Stargate Atlantis, not Dallas Atlantis, or Beverly Hills Atlantis. (shudders)

Agreed. If SGA becomes this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyJ5Ow7cbFk) Ithink I'll be sick.

CazzBlade
July 22nd, 2008, 10:03 AM
:lol: I won't share my ginger cake with you! How dare you have your own opinions! What happened to the hive collective minds thingy then? ;) :D

:eek: No ginger cake! *sobs*

Switches collective mind back on "Resistance to the Shep Whump is futile" :P

Jill_Ion
July 22nd, 2008, 10:13 AM
I'm slowly getting to understand, how the scene should have been written:
DEX: I don't get it. I thought Colonel Carter was doing a good job.

TEYLA: Sort of. Well, we defeated the Replicators, but that's not that much. Do you know who did excellent jobs? Dr. Elizabeth Weir and Dr. Carson Beckett.

SHEPPARD: (sobbing) I so miss Elizabeth.

McKAY: Me too. (closeup on a teardrop down his cheek)

TEYLA: (sad but positive) At least we may have Dr. Beckett back.

McKAY: (losing it) HE'S JUST A CLONE! (runs out wailing)

WOOLSEY: (enters room) C'mon children settle down, it'll all be alright in a couple of seasons, you'll see. Okay then, will somebody tell Dr. McKay to come back, so we can have this briefing. (to Dr. Keller) Not you, no shipping today!

I read every post in this thread (of those who aren't on my ignore list) and this one made me laugh out loud. I think it's the mental image of McKay flinging himself out the door, arms flailing, and crying all the way down the hall.

:lol:

Before I throw my pennies in the event horizon, I'm gonna go watch The Seed again.

pjt
July 22nd, 2008, 10:21 AM
:eek: No ginger cake! *sobs*

The cake is a lie!

Linda06
July 22nd, 2008, 10:22 AM
:eek: For once I'm disagreeing with Linzi! There must be something wrong with me :P

Gotta agree with ya on Carter Cautious Explorer, and I did watch SG1 :o

:eek:cazz......How could you :mckay: Ooh i wonder if Camy will let me borrow her bat *Wanders off whistling innocently*

jelgate
July 22nd, 2008, 10:54 AM
:eek:cazz......How could you :mckay: Ooh i wonder if Camy will let me borrow her bat *Wanders off whistling innocently*Aim for the knees

Rac80
July 22nd, 2008, 11:04 AM
The difference is, they had to explain why Carter wasn't there. With both Weir and Beckett, we'd seen what happened to them, we'd been "shown" why they were no longer in Atlantis. Because of the nature of Amanda leaving the show, they had to, after just one episode, explain to the viewers why Carter was no longer in Atlantis. She didn't die or go missing in action, so they had to have a scene with some dialogue to try to rationally explain her absence. They had to "tell" us why she was gone.

It's not a case of Carter's departure being more important than Weir's or Beckett's or affecting the team more, it's just the need to quickly impart the information to the audience to wrap up that plot point.



And if they did show us e.g. Sheppard crying his eyes out with grief, there would immediately be cries of "OOC".


Very well said! :D! We saw the deaths (or loss) of the others, sam's leaving was unexplained in that sense.


I'm slowly getting to understand, how the scene should have been written:
DEX: I don't get it. I thought Colonel Carter was doing a good job.

TEYLA: Sort of. Well, we defeated the Replicators, but that's not that much. Do you know who did excellent jobs? Dr. Elizabeth Wier and Dr. Carson Beckett.

SHEPPARD: (sobbing) I so miss Elizabeth.

McKAY: Me too. (closeup on a teardrop down his cheek)

TEYLA: (sad but positive) At least we may have Dr. Beckett back.

McKAY: (losing it) HE'S JUST A CLONE! (runs out wailing)

WOOLSEY: (enters room) C'mon children settle down, it'll all be alright in a couple of seasons, you'll see. Okay then, will somebody tell Dr. McKay to come back, so we can have this briefing. (to Dr. Keller) Not you, no shipping today!

That was wicked...simply wicked! ;) (mental green for you!)


I'm not sure the writers have to sell anything to us as viewers as far as Carter's concerned - they certainly didn't need to sell Carter to me, and some other viewers, I suspect.

However, I think the point was perhaps also that the IOA had been waiting to jump in and take over the running of the expedition with a person of their choice, and because the threat level appears to have subsided they felt they could relieve Carter of command and bring in an IOA person of their choice. I think it's important to note, that when a new 'manager' takes over, if many things are achieved under their command - even if they're in command for a relatively short period, then they take the credit, even if they perhaps haven't been instrumental in the success of some of those things. At the end of the day, the hierarchy everywhere looks at the present results of their subordinates, and whosoever is in charge at that moment gets the praise or criticism. It's not necessarily fair, but it's the way it is.

I did need an explanation as to why Carter was replaced. I felt S and R left too many questions unanswered about Carter's removal. So, for me, I was glad to hear she had basically been credited with making the Pegasus galaxy a safer place and that she'd done well. Because I didn't see her doing anything wrong in her time as leader, and if she'd been removed because of her poor leadership skills, I'd have not agreed and would have questioned that she'd been removed as a plot device, whereas now I understand the manipulative IOA's motives, and to me, I feel satisfied with the direction the leadership has been taken in. That was important to me. As to support Woolsey in charge, I needed to understand why Carter was removed and why he was given her role. Now it makes sense, to me. I'm not sure the IOA is correct, but it does make sense from what I know of them previously.

I agree, sam's removal seemed very abrupt and needed some explanation. it left me (as a Sam fan) feeling shell-shocked (even though I knew it was going to happen! :P ). I thought it was appropriate and not over-the-top at all!

CazzBlade
July 22nd, 2008, 11:16 AM
:eek:cazz......How could you :mckay: Ooh i wonder if Camy will let me borrow her bat *Wanders off whistling innocently*

I ain't scared o'you! *grabs Yappichick and hides behind her*


Aim for the knees

Hey! She needs no encouragement from you :P

Linda06
July 22nd, 2008, 11:58 AM
I ain't scared o'you! *grabs Yappichick and hides behind her*



Hey! She needs no encouragement from you :P

hehe...That won't protect you....YC is in my bad books,remember ;)

encourage away the great Jel :D

Linzi
July 22nd, 2008, 11:59 AM
Agreed. If SGA becomes this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyJ5Ow7cbFk) Ithink I'll be sick.
:eek: I feel nauseous!

:eek: No ginger cake! *sobs*

Switches collective mind back on "Resistance to the Shep Whump is futile" :P
Resistance to the Shep whump is indeed futile. Just look how much TPTB have squeezed into the first two eppies of season 5. My telephathic messages have been heard loud and clear! ;) :D

:eek:cazz......How could you :mckay: Ooh i wonder if Camy will let me borrow her bat *Wanders off whistling innocently*
Good idea, Linda! Happy belated birthday! :)

Aim for the knees
Jel, your violent tendencies have me concerned! But at least you didn't say aim for the head! :eek: ;)

I ain't scared o'you! *grabs Yappichick and hides behind her*



Hey! She needs no encouragement from you :P

:lol: You need Sheppy to protect you! He'd take a hit to the knees with no problems at all. In fact, he'd be running round afterwards apprehending Linda and passing her over to Lorne for punishment! :D On second thoughts that wouldn't be much of a punishment, would it? Hmmmm, let's pass Linda over to Kavanagh :D

Linda06
July 22nd, 2008, 12:16 PM
Good idea, Linda! Happy belated birthday! :)

Thanks Linzi :D see all my birthday pressies *points below to sigs*



:lol: You need Sheppy to protect you! He'd take a hit to the knees with no problems at all. In fact, he'd be running round afterwards apprehending Linda and passing her over to Lorne for punishment! :D On second thoughts that wouldn't be much of a punishment, would it? Hmmmm, let's pass Linda over to Kavanagh :D


Oh yes please....You could hand me over to major baby anytime for punishment :D......:eek: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not Kavanaugh *runs out thread screaming like a little girl*

CazzBlade
July 22nd, 2008, 02:36 PM
:lol: You need Sheppy to protect you! He'd take a hit to the knees with no problems at all. In fact, he'd be running round afterwards apprehending Linda and passing her over to Lorne for punishment! :D On second thoughts that wouldn't be much of a punishment, would it? Hmmmm, let's pass Linda over to Kavanagh :D

Ooo, I like that idea! Linda, come at me with that bat all you want, just as long as you connect with Shep and not me :D

jelgate
July 22nd, 2008, 02:39 PM
But first we must prepare the CPR team for when Linzi and Peg go THUD. I'm trainied but I like seeing them suffer. http://bestsmileys.com/angles/9.gif

Linda06
July 22nd, 2008, 03:03 PM
Ooo, I like that idea! Linda, come at me with that bat all you want, just as long as you connect with Shep and not me :D

I'm a good aim ya know :D Now where did i put that bat!

DrJenniferDex
July 22nd, 2008, 03:25 PM
I read every post in this thread (of those who aren't on my ignore list) and this one made me laugh out loud. I think it's the mental image of McKay flinging himself out the door, arms flailing, and crying all the way down the hall.

:lol:

Before I throw my pennies in the event horizon, I'm gonna go watch The Seed again.

You can ignore people? Teach me, please? Certain posters need to read Skydiver's first post in here VERY carefully.

jelgate
July 22nd, 2008, 03:48 PM
You can ignore people? Teach me, please? Certain posters need to read Skydiver's first post in here VERY carefully.Say you can't stand me. I don't know why you would though. I am so damn likeable. Anyway, access my profile. Click user lists and and scroll down to add to ignore. Now the computer will omit my posts for you. BUt I don't understand why you would want to ignore a great person like me. Oh, this method works for any member.

JohnDuh
July 22nd, 2008, 03:53 PM
Thank you! Hello Dr Idiot. You wake up with strange stuff on your hands and you tell nobody and go take a rest!!!!!!! Quadruple those malpractice insurance rates.

Yeah, you've got to wonder why the writers wrote it that way

morjana
July 22nd, 2008, 04:24 PM
SGA - Discover Magazine Blog: Stargate Atlantis Gets Biomechanical:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8617895&postcount=254

DrJenniferDex
July 22nd, 2008, 04:24 PM
Say you can't stand me. I don't know why you would though. I am so damn likeable. Anyway, access my profile. Click user lists and and scroll down to add to ignore. Now the computer will omit my posts for you. BUt I don't understand why you would want to ignore a great person like me. Oh, this method works for any member.

-laughs- Don't worry, Jel, you're one of the ones I enjoy in this thread.

surfcity
July 22nd, 2008, 05:11 PM
Excellent episode! I had to stop my Tivo a couple of times just to scream "Euuwwww!" Suspenseful, and I didn't even hate Woolsey by the end.

Never a big Elizabeth fan, I was happy when Amanda Tapping came in, although the role is thankless and not much of a stretch acting-wise, pretty much relegated to ordering people to do this or that. However, I think the role does call for someone older who isn't likely to go on missions.

Jill_Ion
July 22nd, 2008, 06:39 PM
You can ignore people? Teach me, please? Certain posters need to read Skydiver's first post in here VERY carefully.


Say you can't stand me. I don't know why you would though. I am so damn likeable. Anyway, access my profile. Click user lists and and scroll down to add to ignore. Now the computer will omit my posts for you. BUt I don't understand why you would want to ignore a great person like me. Oh, this method works for any member.

Do what jelgate said. In this post. Other posts....uh....do at your own risk. ;) You'll still see posts by ignorami "ignorees" if they are quoted by others, but not a biggie.

DrJenniferDex
July 22nd, 2008, 06:45 PM
-laughs- Thanks, Jill! And yes, I'm sure you know exactly why I'm quite tired of some of the posts.

JohnDuh
July 22nd, 2008, 06:51 PM
Sheppard was not attacked because he was also infected...so the creature picked him up as being friendly.. .

Except he was cured before he left.

jelgate
July 22nd, 2008, 07:15 PM
Except he was cured before he left.And how much time had elasped? Antidotes to sicknesses take some time to go through the the system.

JohnDuh
July 22nd, 2008, 07:17 PM
2. What a terible doctor/character is Keller, for not telling anyone about the goo on her hands.


Yeah, its almost like she was under the control of something else.

Ltcolshepjumper
July 22nd, 2008, 07:26 PM
Excellent episode! I had to stop my Tivo a couple of times just to scream "Euuwwww!" Suspenseful, and I didn't even hate Woolsey by the end.

Never a big Elizabeth fan, I was happy when Amanda Tapping came in, although the role is thankless and not much of a stretch acting-wise, pretty much relegated to ordering people to do this or that. However, I think the role does call for someone older who isn't likely to go on missions.

I think the probl;em with Weir's character was that she really needed something to develop her. Unlike Hammond and Woolsey, Weir was relatively young, and TH performed best when she was doing something. Same with AT and Carter. Their characters don't benefit from sitting on the sidelines. That's why Weir tanked. She shouldn't have been a background character. And Carter- there was no way she could have worked out perfectly. They had to compromise with her. Woolsey, perfect for the role. Background, past his prime.

JohnDuh
July 22nd, 2008, 07:34 PM
what does whump even mean?

Female randiness ;)

Jill_Ion
July 22nd, 2008, 07:40 PM
-laughs- Thanks, Jill! And yes, I'm sure you know exactly why I'm quite tired of some of the posts.

LOL, yeah. I enjoy reading the variety of opinions in this sort of thread, but when I encounter someone with whom I have basic lifeview/philosophical differences that won't be worked out, it's better to just put those posts aside for a while. I'm sure I'm on a few ignore lists out there - it's all good.

Watched The Seed a second time. As I said on JMz's blog, my hub & I thought it was a "weird little episode," but we still liked it. It holds up as a B+ ep, with lots of info about who/what/where things are happening in Pegasus.

I was OK with Woolsey in Pegasus - so came into this ep maybe a little worried - hoping they would keep Woolsey's character as it has been, with room to grow and develop. I think the writers and RP did a great job bringing Woolsey in. His entrance, beaming into the Control Room, with no speech and a brusque manner, was a great contrast to Sam's entry via the Gate, with a smile and a short, warm speech.

I loved Keller's and Teyla's discussion at the beginning. Nice to see Teyla in mommy mode, but not have that be her entire focus - see her blowing the crap outta the tendrils when they attacked Zelenka!

Carson's hair - oooh, stasis wasn't kind to his hair. We thought it made him look like Scotty. Zelenka, on the other hand, must've taken youth pills cuz he looked several years younger than the last time I saw him!

I liked the enthusiasm Beckett and Zelenka had when initially discussing with Woolsey how the hive ship was growing. Even though things were getting dire, the scientific thrill of discovery was still apparent. :)

I'm not a shipper and don't want a lot of romance on SG shows, but I'm OK with a little bit. I thought McKeller was kinda cute. Especially since Shep made a reference to the weirdness of it in the alternate-future.

Shep rocked in this ep. (Go figure I'd say that! LOL!) His response to Carson's "Just relax," was pure Shep. I was concerned he got gut-whumped again so soon (a month, but hey, that's still soon!), but if he needs a nurse, there are lots of thunkers and whumpers who'd be glad to help out the overworked Pegasus med team!

Although it didn't bother me that Shep "saved the day" again, I see where some might not care for it. Two things that, for me, brought him down to mere demi-god status ;) was one - he crashed a Jumper into the side of a building(!) and two - he didn't walk out after the tendril attack. He had to ask for rescue. (JF really plays hurt well, eh?)

I liked many other things about this ep, but will stop at saying I liked the crashing waves and ocean view from Shep's quarters. Hmmmm....wonder if he'll let me see the view from there some night? :sheppard:

DrJenniferDex
July 22nd, 2008, 08:14 PM
-laughs- I think my favourite part was probably, "Well, it's not a case of the hives, now is it?"

PG15
July 22nd, 2008, 08:37 PM
I read every post in this thread (of those who aren't on my ignore list) and this one made me laugh out loud. I think it's the mental image of McKay flinging himself out the door, arms flailing, and crying all the way down the hall.


Hahaha! Yeah, that's what got me as well. Maybe he trips too; that's just more funny. :D

pjt
July 22nd, 2008, 10:08 PM
Yeah, its almost like she was under the control of something else.

Even though it wasn't obvious for lots of people here. Well, mostly for those who, how should I put it, not very fond of the new doctor, for various reasons (like she's responsible for losing our beloved Dr. Beckett). :D

Alipeeps
July 23rd, 2008, 12:25 AM
Actually, I think the entire senior staff does this or else Atlantis personnel would work themselves to nervous breakdowns, lol. Sheppard's likely largely concerned with the military contingent but, given his friendship with McKay and responsibility in protecting the city, he may occasionally take an interest in the civilians, too. Certainly, he'd watch out for his peers in command, who nobody else can order around, and Keller is CMO. Atlantis really has a tight group at the top. Figure that's the only reason why this wacky setup hasn't gone down in the flames. :p


Also, with all the various changes in leadership, Sheppard is the most senior member of the expedition who has been a constant presence - and he has on several occasions been left in command while the leadership issues are happening. It's no surprise he would take it upon himself to look out for everyone on the base, civilian as well as military, in that context.


The cake is a lie!

As Eddie Izzard said, "Cake or death!!" :D


And how much time had elasped? Antidotes to sicknesses take some time to go through the the system.

I'm pretty sure they did specifically state (in the scene just after Sheppard being resuscitated) that the cure had worked, that Sheppard's latest tests revealed so sign of the infection.

I have to say, something of a plot hole has occured to me whilst rewatching last night... why wasn't Carson surprised to see Teyla? He wakes up in an infirmary bed with everyone stood around, including Teyla. Last he knew, upon being frozen, Teyla was in the hands of Michael and heavily pregnant. He wakes up (what, to him, feels like only moments later) and there she is, safe and sound in Atlantis and clearly not pregnant anymore. And he says.... nothing? No comment of, "Oh, thank goodness, they found you!"? No, "Teyla! You're safe!"? No, "Teyla? Oh how wonderful to see you! And... and your baby?"? :S

Linzi
July 23rd, 2008, 04:04 AM
Also, with all the various changes in leadership, Sheppard is the most senior member of the expedition who has been a constant presence - and he has on several occasions been left in command while the leadership issues are happening. It's no surprise he would take it upon himself to look out for everyone on the base, civilian as well as military, in that context.



As Eddie Izzard said, "Cake or death!!" :D



I'm pretty sure they did specifically state (in the scene just after Sheppard being resuscitated) that the cure had worked, that Sheppard's latest tests revealed so sign of the infection.

I have to say, something of a plot hole has occured to me whilst rewatching last night... why wasn't Carson surprised to see Teyla? He wakes up in an infirmary bed with everyone stood around, including Teyla. Last he knew, upon being frozen, Teyla was in the hands of Michael and heavily pregnant. He wakes up (what, to him, feels like only moments later) and there she is, safe and sound in Atlantis and clearly not pregnant anymore. And he says.... nothing? No comment of, "Oh, thank goodness, they found you!"? No, "Teyla! You're safe!"? No, "Teyla? Oh how wonderful to see you! And... and your baby?"? :S
Good point. I was surprised he didn't comment on her being safe too. Maybe his brain was foggy from the freezing he'd endured? ;) :D

JohnDuh
July 23rd, 2008, 04:29 AM
Lol @ 'its not a case of the hives'. So now we know how hives are made. Id just assumed since theyre organic a daddy hive would meet a mommy hive and theyd fall in love, and after courting and marriage they would have a little baby hive. :D:D:D:D:D:D


Wouldn't that be a shuttle? :)

Alipeeps
July 23rd, 2008, 04:44 AM
Good point. I was surprised he didn't comment on her being safe too. Maybe his brain was foggy from the freezing he'd endured? ;) :D

Freezer burn? ;) :D


Wouldn't that be a shuttle? :)

A cute little baby dart... until it hits puberty and grows into the troubled teenaged "cruiser" years and finally matures into a responsible, grown-up hive? :D

Cautious Explorer
July 23rd, 2008, 04:51 AM
I have to say, something of a plot hole has occured to me whilst rewatching last night... why wasn't Carson surprised to see Teyla? He wakes up in an infirmary bed with everyone stood around, including Teyla. Last he knew, upon being frozen, Teyla was in the hands of Michael and heavily pregnant. He wakes up (what, to him, feels like only moments later) and there she is, safe and sound in Atlantis and clearly not pregnant anymore. And he says.... nothing? No comment of, "Oh, thank goodness, they found you!"? No, "Teyla! You're safe!"? No, "Teyla? Oh how wonderful to see you! And... and your baby?"? :S

I think it would have been better to revive Carson in his own episode or at least in one that allowed time to show his adjustment to being home on Atlantis. Carson spent the last two years as a prisoner doing who knows what under threat of death (his own or another's), only to be rescued and discover that everything he believed to be true about himself was a lie. And yet there's no reaction to all this. It's still the same old Carson jumping back into the thick of things to save Keller.

I understand that people would be disappointed not to get the same Carson back, hence the need to give him all of Carson's memories. But even the original Carson would have been dealing with some major issues. Anyone would be affected by being imprisoned for years. Now take a medical doctor and force him to assist in transforming innocent people into mutant creatures and you're adding even more trauma.

He's acting way too normal. Maybe we'll see some signs of cracking later.

Alipeeps
July 23rd, 2008, 05:03 AM
I think it would have been better to revive Carson in his own episode or at least in one that allowed time to show his adjustment to being home on Atlantis. Carson spent the last two years as a prisoner doing who knows what under threat of death (his own or another's), only to be rescued and discover that everything he believed to be true about himself was a lie. And yet there's no reaction to all this. It's still the same old Carson jumping back into the thick of things to save Keller.

I understand that people would be disappointed not to get the same Carson back, hence the need to give him all of Carson's memories. But even the original Carson would have been dealing with some major issues. Anyone would be affected by being imprisoned for years. Now take a medical doctor and force him to assist in transforming innocent people into mutant creatures and you're adding even more trauma.

He's acting way too normal. Maybe we'll see some signs of cracking later.

Good point. But then, let's be honest, SGA has never been the best at recognising/portraying phsychological consequences of what the characters go though. Imprisoned and deliberately tortured by being fed to a Wraith multiple times with your closest friends watching? No worries. Back to your usual wry humour within moments Held captive by a madmen who gives you unwanted scans and drugs etc whilst you're heavily pregnant and wants to experiment on your unborn child? Ah well, back home now with baby so all's well that ends well. :rolleyes: :lol:

That said, there is a limit to how far such things can and should be portrayed on this kind of show - it isn't BSG and I wouldn't want it to be. But a little acknowledgement now and then that there are repercussions to some of what the characters go through would be nice. I do think they are getting better at that and little touches like e.g. Sheppard's dream showing us that he still feels guilty over losing Ford so long ago are nice.

Cautious Explorer
July 23rd, 2008, 05:20 AM
Good point. But then, let's be honest, SGA has never been the best at recognising/portraying phsychological consequences of what the characters go though. Imprisoned and deliberately tortured by being fed to a Wraith multiple times with your closest friends watching? No worries. Back to your usual wry humour within moments Held captive by a madmen who gives you unwanted scans and drugs etc whilst you're heavily pregnant and wants to experiment on your unborn child? Ah well, back home now with baby so all's well that ends well. :rolleyes: :lol:

That said, there is a limit to how far such things can and should be portrayed on this kind of show - it isn't BSG and I wouldn't want it to be. But a little acknowledgement now and then that there are repercussions to some of what the characters go through would be nice. I do think they are getting better at that and little touches like e.g. Sheppard's dream showing us that he still feels guilty over losing Ford so long ago are nice.

I agee with you. I wouldn't want to see them take it too far the other way either. I can pretend that Sheppard is so good at suppressing his emotions that he can set aside the effects of the Wraith feeding and that Teyla is so happy that the baby is healthy that she can move forward as well. But Carson's ordeal lasted for two years!

He created a monster and then, in turn, was used by that monster as a tool to mutilate and kill countless numbers of people. At least give him a whole episode to come to terms with it. Then he can glibly go on with the same selective amnesia as all the others next week. :)

pjt
July 23rd, 2008, 05:37 AM
At least give him a whole episode to come to terms with it. Then he can glibly go on with the same selective amnesia as all the others next week. :)

They say he'll be back this season, so it's possible, that they will deal with this.

Rac80
July 23rd, 2008, 06:47 AM
I think it would have been better to revive Carson in his own episode or at least in one that allowed time to show his adjustment to being home on Atlantis. Carson spent the last two years as a prisoner doing who knows what under threat of death (his own or another's), only to be rescued and discover that everything he believed to be true about himself was a lie. And yet there's no reaction to all this. It's still the same old Carson jumping back into the thick of things to save Keller.

I understand that people would be disappointed not to get the same Carson back, hence the need to give him all of Carson's memories. But even the original Carson would have been dealing with some major issues. Anyone would be affected by being imprisoned for years. Now take a medical doctor and force him to assist in transforming innocent people into mutant creatures and you're adding even more trauma.

He's acting way too normal. Maybe we'll see some signs of cracking later.

How does anyone know what is "normal" for a CLONE? he isn't carson and who knows what Michael has "programmed" into him? He may not be "wired" the same mentally as a real person.

Jeyla4ever
July 23rd, 2008, 07:53 AM
I'm overdo for my review here....Let's see....

LOOVED LOOOVED Teyla....I have no clue what happened to her though in the last half. I presumed it might have to do with the fact that most had been evacuated, but it would have been nice to have had her at least be mentioned.

Rodney was just too adorable! I"m telling you the writers really have me loving him since Season 3. THANK YOU!

Ronon...Gosh I LOVE that muscle maniac with his strong arms...*clears throat* Sorry, momentary laps there....he...well, look the only thing that worries me about this whole thing was Keller's comments about Rodney in that first part...I like Rodney and Keller but things are rushing too fast for this shipper.

I really have to give the writers credit for this one though. I was under the impression that this was going to be a Keller episode and frankly I didn't see it as such. She just lay there most of the time. This was really a Woosley episode for me..and I have to say, I really don't know what to think of him, yet. But I"m not sure that he's showing the leadership skills that I would like to see in him. And for the first time since the dissappearance of Elizabeth, I'm going to write, that I do miss her leadership.

But it really is too soon to make a call on Woosley, but I hope that he has other layers than the one I saw in The Seed.

ZELENKA...WOOHOOO!

Not a la Search and Rescue, but good episode.

What I did love.....the whole idea of how Wraith Hive ships are formed...that was INTRIGUING! I wish there was more on that.

Jill_Ion
July 23rd, 2008, 07:57 AM
...Ronon...Gosh I LOVE that muscle maniac with his strong arms...*clears throat* Sorry, momentary laps there....

No, please go on! Strong arms...and? :ronan:

Also, I am really interested in learning more about how hive ships are grown.

JohnDuh
July 23rd, 2008, 09:56 AM
The Phage. AND the references begin! For those who don't know, The Phage was the name of a Season 1 Star Trek Voyager episode featuring a disease of the same name. Again, I paused the video and had a good laugh. Can't wait for more of these! :D


A phage is a virus which can infect bacteria. They used it in a medical context here (and probably on Voyager), not as a reference.

JohnDuh
July 23rd, 2008, 11:21 AM
They could have at least have cut a minute of Keller time to have ONE nice Carson/Rodney moment, or have Teyla walking in on Rodney talking to Carson (show, don't tell, remember?) But instead we get Keller praddling on, "Oh, it's all about me though I'll hide that fact by talking on and on about somebody else but note the amount of screentime I have doing this because it's all about ME, love ME!" :mckay:

She is a regular. He is a guest (who will be back).

Jumper_One
July 23rd, 2008, 11:24 AM
She is a regular. He is a guest (who will be back).

actually Carson's a recurring character

PG15
July 23rd, 2008, 11:51 AM
A phage is a virus which can infect bacteria. They used it in a medical context here (and probably on Voyager), not as a reference.

Yeah...JM said as much on his blog recently. Oh well.

I guess I'll pretend that it's a reference. :D

Cautious Explorer
July 23rd, 2008, 03:27 PM
How does anyone know what is "normal" for a CLONE? he isn't carson and who knows what Michael has "programmed" into him? He may not be "wired" the same mentally as a real person.

He's a clone with almost all of Carson's memories. To me that's close enough. What's normal for Carson would be normal for his clone.

Your second point is interesting. I suppose there could be some hidden mental changes even though he acts and behaves like the original Carson. I tend to think TPTB aren't looking beyond an expedient way to bring Carson back and will sweep the whole clone issue under the rug as soon as possible. Who knows?

jayeffaar
July 23rd, 2008, 03:54 PM
On another note i liked the McKay/Teyla interaction as they had several scenes together (Teyla keeping McKay in the loop when McKay was quarantined in his room aswell as Teyla calling McKay for help in opening Keller's door). It is something which has been severely lacking in the past few seasons so hopefully the writers rectify that in season 5 as i like their interaction.

Along the same lines, I also enjoyed the Teyla/Zelenka scene when they went to check out the power conduit. With Rodney temporarily out of the picture, it made sense Zelenka would be called upon, but I thought they worked well together. It's nice that the show has this extended team that can work together in various combination, and still give us interesting scenes.

Rac80
July 23rd, 2008, 04:50 PM
He's a clone with almost all of Carson's memories. To me that's close enough. What's normal for Carson would be normal for his clone.

Your second point is interesting. I suppose there could be some hidden mental changes even though he acts and behaves like the original Carson. I tend to think TPTB aren't looking beyond an expedient way to bring Carson back and will sweep the whole clone issue under the rug as soon as possible. Who knows?

Remember when Michael got Clone!Carson to put down the gun and not shoot him? Michael obviously has messed with him mentally, whose to say what that will do to the poor clone's psyche?

Jill_Ion
July 23rd, 2008, 04:55 PM
Along the same lines, I also enjoyed the Teyla/Zelenka scene when they went to check out the power conduit. With Rodney temporarily out of the picture, it made sense Zelenka would be called upon, but I thought they worked well together. It's nice that the show has this extended team that can work together in various combination, and still give us interesting scenes.

I agree. I thought they worked well together. :)

DanJack
July 24th, 2008, 05:13 AM
Remember when Michael got Clone!Carson to put down the gun and not shoot him? Michael obviously has messed with him mentally, whose to say what that will do to the poor clone's psyche?

I think you have a good point there. I have a feeling that they will bring this little genetic programming into another story later on this season. I bet we will have more Carson/Michael scenes. I don't see any other reason why they would have had that scene in there otherwise last season. Incidentally, that could make for some great scenes.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 07:58 AM
:eek: I feel nauseous!
I've never understood how some people liked that show.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 08:00 AM
Even though it wasn't obvious for lots of people here. Well, mostly for those who, how should I put it, not very fond of the new doctor, for various reasons (like she's responsible for losing our beloved Dr. Beckett). :D

I've never understood that argument.

Jill_Ion
July 24th, 2008, 08:41 AM
I've never understood how some people liked that show.

(Re: Beverly Hills 90210)

I never watched it, but I have liked a few fluffy shows over the years.

DrJenniferDex
July 24th, 2008, 08:58 AM
I watched it when I was a kid. Watched Baywatch, too.

Edit: Thanks for telling us what show you guys are talking about, Jill, because I skipped over that part of the conversation, so I was a bit confused.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 09:00 AM
(Re: Beverly Hills 90210)

I never watched it, but I have liked a few fluffy shows over the years.

I've watched a few myself (Charmed, Dallas) but I hated Beverly Hills, Mellrose Place and Seventh Heaven.

Jumper_One
July 24th, 2008, 10:28 AM
I watched it when I was a kid. Watched Baywatch, too.

Edit: Thanks for telling us what show you guys are talking about, Jill, because I skipped over that part of the conversation, so I was a bit confused.

yeah ok but how can you not like Baywatch? to quote Chandler... :D

CHANDLER: Doesn't matter, time for Baywatch.

EDDIE: Y-, y-, you like that show?

CHANDLER: You don't like that show?

EDDIE: Wha-, n-, no. I mean it's just a bunch of pretty people runnin' around on the beach, ya know.

CHANDLER: Well that's the brilliance of it. The pretty people... and the running.

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 10:32 AM
yeah ok but how can you not like Baywatch? to quote Chandler... :D

Exactly. *bouncy, bouncy, bouncy*;)

Reiko
July 24th, 2008, 10:35 AM
» *needs to finish her recap*

DrJenniferDex
July 24th, 2008, 11:29 AM
-cracks up- Well, I'm pretty sure I was about seven, I wasn't interested in pretty people running. Even when I watched Baywatch: Hawaii, and Jason was on. I just found out recently that I used to watch him.

jannagalaxy
July 24th, 2008, 02:07 PM
I was totally glad to see Carson back. :) Two thumbs up for that.

I still miss Weir. :(

I kinda understood what Woolsey was saying about the rules. But life doesn't really follow many rules. I've learned that. Even though I've not warmed up to having Woolsey about, I think hate's a bit tough of a word but he's still got away to go before I can accept him. I just hate it when shows get new characters and they're accepted *clicks fingers*just like that. I hope that they don't do that with this character.

Jill_Ion
July 24th, 2008, 02:30 PM
I was totally glad to see Carson back. :) Two thumbs up for that.

I still miss Weir. :(

I kinda understood what Woolsey was saying about the rules. But life doesn't really follow many rules. I've learned that. Even though I've not warmed up to having Woolsey about, I think hate's a bit tough of a word but he's still got away to go before I can accept him. I just hate it when shows get new characters and they're accepted *clicks fingers*just like that. I hope that they don't do that with this character.

I am hoping for some character development through the difficulty of the Team getting used to Woolsey too. :)

GateofDOOM
July 24th, 2008, 04:22 PM
I am hoping for some character development through the difficulty of the Team getting used to Woolsey too. :)

I want to see some rules being followed! But I'm probably the only person who when I heard about Woolsey coming to Atlantis thought, "A bureaucrat coming to Altantis? YESSSSSSSSSSS!"

Not that I'm in love with bureaucrats as a rule or anything...:P

I just love contrasts. Cause they bring with them some character clashing and conflict! OR they should anyway. :)

Reiko
July 24th, 2008, 06:40 PM
» I am looking forward to the potential relationship between Keller and Woolsey this year, I kid you not. I love how he instills such confidence in her, he and their relationship might make her more bearable. :)

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 06:53 PM
I want to see some rules being followed! But I'm probably the only person who when I heard about Woolsey coming to Atlantis thought, "A bureaucrat coming to Altantis? YESSSSSSSSSSS!"

Not that I'm in love with bureaucrats as a rule or anything...:P

I just love contrasts. Cause they bring with them some character clashing and conflict! OR they should anyway. :)

I knew that he would add conflict to the show and so far he is doing a great job but I'd hardly say the show has been without conflict before.

DrJenniferDex
July 24th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Some of us think she's more than bearable already.

CazzBlade
July 25th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Some of us think she's more than bearable already.

And Reiko and a lot of others don't.

Personally I initially liked her but the more I see of her the less I like :o, and after watching The Seed I realised that I really wouldn't have cared if she had died! I would have been more bothered about looking forward to who would replace her.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti Keller and I don't want her to die, it just wouldn't impact on me if she she did :S

DrJenniferDex
July 25th, 2008, 04:37 AM
Okay, I'm confused, CazzBlade...nothing about the episode, I'm just a little slow with names...I'm sure I've seen and talked to both you and HyperCaz before, but I can't remember where...don't suppose you know, do you?

CazzBlade
July 25th, 2008, 04:47 AM
Okay, I'm confused, CazzBlade...nothing about the episode, I'm just a little slow with names...I'm sure I've seen and talked to both you and HyperCaz before, but I can't remember where...don't suppose you know, do you?

Umm... no I don't think so.. unless it was another general thread like this. Or... I see you know Krissie, she might have lead you to the icontest that I run. Other than that, you must have a better memory than me :P

DrJenniferDex
July 25th, 2008, 05:14 AM
Must've been another general thread, then, because it's definitely not the icontest. I never go to that, it just makes me jealous that I have no clue how to do any of that.

GateofDOOM
July 25th, 2008, 01:49 PM
I knew that he would add conflict to the show and so far he is doing a great job but I'd hardly say the show has been without conflict before.

More is better! :)

Also I'm a big fan of ethical dilemma's, "do we follow the rules or don't we?", kind of fits into that. Not that Atlantis hasn't had it's share of these I just want such things to be integral to the episode rather then afterthoughts (but not in every episode, I guess :P). Like in Michael or Childhood's End...or something. Could be that Woolsey brings that back.

DragonLadyK
July 25th, 2008, 05:28 PM
I say that Teyla not telling the BabyHive to stand down is a plot hole because it's been previously established that Teyla can operate whatever technology a Wraith can, like Hives and labratory doors. For continuity's sake they should have at least had her try to shut it down.

That being said, if Tyela hadn't been able to shut BabyHive down it would mean the Wraith would have engineered something that, once started, could not be shut down. That would at least have proved that they are capable of Ancient-level stupidity (Project Arcturus and the Replicators, anyone?), which as of yet we've not seen them display.

Of course, they could also have had Teyla say that Michael's alterations to the Hive spores made it impossible for her to control them. That would have done me, too.

I'm not picky, I'm just after consistency. ^^;;

Nevertheless, I'm still giving the ep an 8 because not only did it have a lot of Radek, but there was Zelenka-whump. There can never be too much Zelenka. I dearly hope there's at least one Zelenka Competence ep this season. :zelenka: We had "Thirty Eight Minutes" in Season One (the ep that hooked me on SGA), "Trinity" in Season Two, "Tao of Rodney" and "Submersion" in Season Three, "Adrift" and "Tabula Rasa" in Season Four, and while Radek got dumbed down in the transporter with Carter (starstruck, perhaps) in "Quarantine," he did technically save the day.

DragonLady

Leliana McKay
July 26th, 2008, 02:35 AM
I really liked The Seed because of the Keller plot, Carson back and Woolsey's arrival.

Everyone's reaction to Woolsey in command was great. I particularly liked Rodney's obvious unhapiness with Sam gone.

I loved the plot. The gross wraith experiment growing on Keller was cool and so creepy. It is surprising she came back to her old self that fast.

Woolsey's first impression as commander is not good but I liked that it stayed true to the character. He is complaining about Keller putting all her ressource on saving Carson and not wanting to actually to the final deed, test her/Michael's cure on him, a good point actually.

The writers are seriously leaning on the McKeller ship...which is not a bad thing. I could accept the pairing since we have a future timeline already pointing to it. Jen and Rodney are similar so the relationship is not awkward at all. Rodney is still old Rodney in all his awkwardness with women and Keller is interested in him! Did you see the way she talked about him with Teyla? It was cute, a bit too cheesy the way Keller describes Rodney visiting Carson but still sweet. Teyla now knows... too bad her son Thoran (how do you spell that?) started wailing, I wanted to see what Teyla would answer to that.

Keller saves Carson, Rodney is happy, everyone is happy but that's just the beginning of the episode so...you smell trouble when you remember Keller's hand and the gross liquid sticked to it. Keller goes to sleep but never wakes up.

Rodney is quite fond of Keller too I think. He didn't want to break in her quarters, he is worried when he first sees the thing growing from her, he also is the one who goes to talk to her and finally he freaked out when she was left all alone when they decided to cut the power in the area.

Long story short, Ronon goes to inject Keller with the cure Carson created but get captured by the slippery tentacles (not sure what they are called anyways) and Sheppard takes a jumper and crashes it directly into Keller's room and manages to inject her but not before she strikes him with a tentacle. Ouch, that hurt!
Sheppard gets whumped and saved the day! Love that!

Carson...leaves Atlantis for Earth. So unfair! I hate the musical chair Atlantis has been playing with its main characters.

My grade of the episode: 8.5/10 because of the cool tentacles, Carson's return, Zelenka's short appearance, and Rodney sulking.

Alipeeps
July 27th, 2008, 09:15 AM
I say that Teyla not telling the BabyHive to stand down is a plot hole because it's been previously established that Teyla can operate whatever technology a Wraith can, like Hives and labratory doors. For continuity's sake they should have at least had her try to shut it down.


Umm. No, it hasn't. I've no idea where you've gotten that idea from? All we've seen of Teyla operating Wraith technology is that she can (with a great deal of effort) fly a hive ship - and even then only fairly basic manouevring. The sole exception being while she was pregnant she found it easier to fly a hive ship, presumably because of her son having the Gift too and somehow enhancing her ability.

We've never seen it stated or shown that having the Gift allows an Athosian to operation "whatever technology a Wraith can". To assume that her ability to, with difficulty, fly a hive ship (which would appear to work in a similar way to the ATA ability and jumpers - that you need the right DNA and to be able to form some kind of mental link) means that she can operate/command any Wraith technology is mere supposition. And if it were the case, surely it's a bigger plot hole that in all the 4+ seasons to date on all the occasions the team have been captured by the Wraith, Teyla has not simply opened the cell doors for them? :rolleyes:

It's also worth noting that to fly a hive ship (the only interaction we have ever seen Teyla have with Wraith tech) she needed to use the physical ship controls. We've never seen her be able to simply connect mentally to a hive ship and make it obey her (see point above about cell doors) so even if we suppose she CAN force her will onto any Wraith tech, it would have to be assumed that she would have to get be in physical contact with the hive "control center" (i.e. Keller) to do so. And how would they propose to do that? It was risky enough sending Ronon in - Teyla is a new mother who has yet to decide whether she is returning to active duty and also she is not infected with the virus that would make her appear "safe" to the hive consciousness.

Aside from all that, the consciousness that the growing hive created had one sole purpose "to become as [it is] meant to be". There's no indication that even a Wraith could have forced the consciousness to abort its growth and shut down.

In other words... it's really not a plot hole. There's never been any indication that Teyla should have been able to shut down a growing hive.

Mitchell82
July 27th, 2008, 10:13 AM
More is better! :)

Also I'm a big fan of ethical dilemma's, "do we follow the rules or don't we?", kind of fits into that. Not that Atlantis hasn't had it's share of these I just want such things to be integral to the episode rather then afterthoughts (but not in every episode, I guess :P). Like in Michael or Childhood's End...or something. Could be that Woolsey brings that back.

Agreed. Personally Childhoods End is one of my favorites and the ethical situation is the main reason it is.

GateofDOOM
July 28th, 2008, 02:46 PM
Agreed. Personally Childhoods End is one of my favorites and the ethical situation is the main reason it is.

:eek:

I thought that episode ranked fairly low amongst most people.

:D

Anyhoo's, I'm looking forward to some Woolsey spotlighting in Inquistion in terms of ethical dilemma's and hopefully some controversy in Ghost in the Machine.
Obviously Woolsey can't be at odds with the expedition all the time (That would be very inefficient!), but I'm looking forward to the times that they do have that play in. (After they get him settled in, I think they'll try to establish him as competent etc before they toss all this conflict stuff at us)

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2008, 05:01 PM
:eek:

I thought that episode ranked fairly low amongst most people.

:D
It does but I'm not most people. It's defintely not the best but it's still quite enjoyable.


Anyhoo's, I'm looking forward to some Woolsey spotlighting in Inquistion in terms of ethical dilemma's and hopefully some controversy in Ghost in the Machine.
Obviously Woolsey can't be at odds with the expedition all the time (That would be very inefficient!), but I'm looking forward to the times that they do have that play in. (After they get him settled in, I think they'll try to establish him as competent etc before they toss all this conflict stuff at us)
Agreed.

Chelle DB
July 29th, 2008, 04:56 AM
The Seed was wicked!!! Loved this episode!!! Those tendril things are just creepy!!!...cool...but creepy!!
I have a few questions though. You know how Shepperd got the vaccine thingy right...and how he had a seizure and his heart stopped?? Did all those infected...Sam included...did they have to have the same vaccine to rid their bodies or the organism?? Coz Lorne and another team member were already starting to show signs that they were affected...so I'm assuming they used the vaccine on everyone infected. So...assuming that...does that mean they too had seizures and their hearts stopped too??? I'm thinking that it would have been hard on Sam...being so far from the cure and from her friends who were in the same predicament as her...except she was alone...they still had each other.
Oh yeah...why didn't the safety protocols kick in and the city shut down when that thing was spreading and when the teams came back with a foreign organism in the blood??? Or did I miss that being covered???
Loved this ep...Woolsey was good...kept Becket there!! Yay!!

Lenas
July 31st, 2008, 02:03 AM
How did Keller look weak?

She kicked off the show by working herself to exhaustion and saving Carson. Then she was incapacitated for the rest of it, and she handled that fact just fine!

Sigh.

If they have things go well for Keller, everyone whines about how the writers are doing too much for her. When they don't, everyone whines that she's weak. There's no pleasing anybody with her. 95% of the fan base has made up their minds one direction or another, and those mindsets won't ever change, no matter what appears on the screen in the future.

I can see your point, you liking Keller that is.
But we all know WHAT ill appear on the screen in the future. Some silly love triangle, "heavy flirtation" I quote JS here, between her and Ronon, "heat up between her and Rodney" quote JS again.
I want a scifi show, not a bloody soap. And why destroy the little friendship there is between Ronon/Rodney??

The writers are not doing her any favour here - I will only dislike her more because of this!!:mad:
They need to give her some backbone,and make her stand on her on two feet without any men, and what, is she stupid? Do she not know that she is flirting with two guys at the same time, it doesn't seem very fair to either of them.

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2008, 03:25 PM
I just watched this episode, in between some Army Wives. I figured I had to catch up some time, preferably before the next one airs. Which will set me behind two episodes again once it does.

But anyway... The Seed

GOOD

* FLAIL - TEYLA!!!
Why yes, I'm happy to see her back in action. And I loved the scene with Torren, that was cute. Mmm...fic ideas...AU fic ideas anyway...
Finally some more to do for my (second) favorite lady. That was nice. Too bad she disappears somewhere in the middle, or towards the end, not to be seen again. :(

Teyla breaking into Keller's room. I don't know about anyone else, but I had a Doppelganger flashback, though there she seemed to be able to enter Kate's room without a problem, while here she had Rodney override the lock. Rodney's reaction was brilliant though. Keller's room is the same as Kate's, as in the set is the same. It's a cursed place. :p

* Keller made me smile. I don't outright hate the character, I'm in the meh-department. This episode put her in a different sort of light. Then again, she wasn't the Doctor, Carson was. However, Keller will never reach the strength or charisma Carson has/had.
But I seem to like characters being whumped so there... I guess that was it.

* Radek - It's always nice to see my favorite Czech scientist. Teyla saved his butt, guns blazing. I cheered. Radek really rocked in this episode, and I really hoped it would be the B-Team for once to save the day. But nope, it had to be Hewo-Sheppard again.

* Flying a jumper into the city. Weir would have a thing or two to say about that, but then again it looked daft. Leave it to Sheppard to get the job done in his own way of course. The faster, the better.

* Beckett back in action - it's a pleasure, but I missed his cool hair.

* Sheppard communicating with the tentacles, that was very Weir-like.

BAD

* Teyla disappearing halfway through the episode.

* Woolsey - too willing to put the many before the one. I'd say go for it but not before you run out of all your options, and then some. If he were to stay like this, I could see the potential for some good drama. But the way he was used for comic relief here and there, doesn't hold much promise of that. Who said it again they would tone him down like they did Rodney? I don't want that. If you want Woolsey, then keep him the way he is, or have him change over time. Like he was in the briefing room (I want that cool table back btw, out with that new one).

* I had a deja-vu feel throughout the episode and I still don't know why. But it all felt like I had seen it before somewhere. I think I've read it in a fic maybe... I don't know. *shrug*

* Teyla reduced to praising Carter as a goddess. :confused: (Yes, bitter!)

* Also bitter on the fact that Paul gets an "as Dr. Beckett", while Torri hasn't and won't get that - BITTERNESS and unfairness rule. Recognize TPTB's faves.

CONCLUSION

It wasn't all that bad. I smiled a few times. Was happy to see more of Teyla, who looks even more beautiful (the wig looks okay even). The story was okay, I guess, apart from that deja-vu feeling. It was popcorn enjoyment. (When I use that term it means that the brain can take time off, since it's not needed for the duration of the episode/movie. Mindless entertainment.)

Reiko
July 31st, 2008, 03:28 PM
I* Also bitter on the fact that Paul gets an "as Dr. Beckett", while Torri hasn't and won't get that - BITTERNESS and unfairness rule. Recognize TPTB's faves.

» B-but he's always had that tagged onto his name in the credits. :o

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2008, 03:33 PM
» B-but he's always had that tagged onto his name in the credits. :o

Mmm, good point. :o

Still, no chance in hell for TH to ever get that anyway... and thus bitterness remains.

Reiko
July 31st, 2008, 03:51 PM
» No, she wouldn't. :(

» I think that the other person beside PM and DH that had their name in the opening credits was Robert Patrick in the pilot episode... I think Mitch Pileggi might have had it at one time too? Which, I have no idea why they do that. :S

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 03:57 PM
* Also bitter on the fact that Paul gets an "as Dr. Beckett", while Torri hasn't and won't get that - BITTERNESS and unfairness rule. Recognize TPTB's faves.

and that's unfair because...? PMG will be back for four eps, Torri didn't want to appear in any eps

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2008, 04:00 PM
» I think that the other person beside PM and DH that had their name in the opening credits was Robert Patrick in the pilot episode... I think Mitch Pileggi might have had it at one time too? Which, I have no idea why they do that. :S

From what I know, it's a contract thing. *shrug*


and that's unfair because...? PMG will be back for four eps, Torri didn't want to appear in any eps

And that's not what I meant. And she probably had a darn good reason too, but I'm not going to go into that anymore.

I just meant that AT gets a special appearance, PM gets it... TH didn't get it the first time around, and won't get it since she (wisely) chose not to return.

jelgate
July 31st, 2008, 04:01 PM
Is it really that big of a deal?:S

DrJenniferDex
July 31st, 2008, 04:02 PM
To some people, apparently it is.

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2008, 04:04 PM
Is it really that big of a deal?:S

YES! To me it is... BOO-HOO!

Call me selfish and what not... but I feel it shows some sort of respect to someone who has been on the show for a number of years, contributing to your success and being a part of something.

Then again... maybe I expect too much, and need to seriously tone down. Possibly that.

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 04:05 PM
And that's not what I meant. And she probably had a darn good reason too, but I'm not going to go into that anymore.

I just meant that AT gets a special appearance, PM gets it... TH didn't get it the first time around, and won't get it since she (wisely) chose not to return.

ok but Sam Carter has been a SG character for more than 11 years, of course she get's a Special Appearance. I'm sure MS will get the same in the mid-season two-parter


Is it really that big of a deal?:S

not really imo

CazzBlade
July 31st, 2008, 04:07 PM
Gotta agree with FH on the credits issue! I don't know why it bothers me but it does :S

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 04:10 PM
Gotta agree with FH on the credits issue! I don't know why it bothers me but it does :S

what's the big deal? Weir wasn't even in this ep...

jelgate
July 31st, 2008, 04:10 PM
YES! To me it is... BOO-HOO!Call me selfish and what not... but I feel it shows some sort of respect to someone who has been on the show for a number of years, contributing to your success and being a part of something.Then again... maybe I expect too much, and need to seriously tone down. Possibly that.We're fans. Selfish is part of the defination:P

CazzBlade
July 31st, 2008, 04:16 PM
what's the big deal? Weir wasn't even in this ep...

The eps Weir was in she didn't get a special credit, like Carson did in this ep and AT did in S&R

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 04:22 PM
The eps Weir was in she didn't get a special credit, like Carson did in this ep and AT did in S&R

but that was in s4

CazzBlade
July 31st, 2008, 04:26 PM
but that was in s4

and that makes a difference?

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 04:36 PM
and that makes a difference?

yes it does. Torri won't appear in s5, Paul will be in four more eps

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2008, 04:39 PM
We're fans. Selfish is part of the defination:P

True. :)

Jumper_One, it's the idea behind it... not whether she'll appear now or never.

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 04:42 PM
True. :)

Jumper_One, it's the idea behind it... not whether she'll appear now or never.

ok but you're complaining that PMG got a Special Appearance and Torri didn't even though she wasn't in this ep...

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2008, 04:47 PM
ok but you're complaining that PMG got a Special Appearance and Torri didn't even though she wasn't in this ep...

I'm not complaining (1). It's not about the episode, so technically OT for the topic at hand being The Seed (2). It's just the idea behind it all (3).

Jumper_One
July 31st, 2008, 04:50 PM
I'm not complaining (1). It's not about the episode, so technically OT for the topic at hand being The Seed (2). It's just the idea behind it all (3).

ok :)

Reiko
July 31st, 2008, 05:28 PM
Call me selfish and what not... but I feel it shows some sort of respect to someone who has been on the show for a number of years, contributing to your success and being a part of something.

» Yup. Not going into it to avoid a snip, but I hate what they did with PM and especially TH.

» And that's my issue. :)

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 10:41 AM
Is it that thing with BAMSR again?

It's fairly simple. Saying that Torri will appear at the beginning of the episode spoils the twist at the end that almost no one here saw coming (which is good). Now, if she didn't get that credit in Adrift and Lifeline...that'd be strange. Even This Mortal Coil involves the twist of her appearing halfway though, so I can imagine them not giving her a credit at the beginning.

It's just how the industry works. The show is always taken as a sum of its parts in order to entertain, instead of singling out specific things.

CazzBlade
August 1st, 2008, 10:51 AM
Is it that thing with BAMSR again?

It's fairly simple. Saying that Torri will appear at the beginning of the episode spoils the twist at the end that almost no one here saw coming (which is good). Now, if she didn't get that credit in Adrift and Lifeline...that'd be strange. Even This Mortal Coil involves the twist of her appearing halfway though, so I can imagine them not giving her a credit at the beginning.

It's just how the industry works. The show is always taken as a sum of its parts in order to entertain, instead of singling out specific things.

No, its thats AT gets 'special appearance by' and PM gets 'as Carson Beckett' whereas TH was just Torri Higginson in the guest starring section along with the other guest stars

jenks
August 1st, 2008, 10:53 AM
She's not important enough to get anything more.

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 10:54 AM
She was certainly important in Adrift and Lifeline, where she didn't get that.

Ok, that's...that's unfortunate.

jelgate
August 1st, 2008, 11:09 AM
Aren't such things neogated between the actor and TPTB.

Pegasus_SGA
August 1st, 2008, 11:15 AM
Is it that thing with BAMSR again?

It's fairly simple. Saying that Torri will appear at the beginning of the episode spoils the twist at the end that almost no one here saw coming (which is good). Now, if she didn't get that credit in Adrift and Lifeline...that'd be strange. Even This Mortal Coil involves the twist of her appearing halfway though, so I can imagine them not giving her a credit at the beginning.

It's just how the industry works. The show is always taken as a sum of its parts in order to entertain, instead of singling out specific things.
Wasn't it explained that because it was a big part of the plot, they didn't want to give anything away. And that with some things, where they don't want to 'spoil' the viewer they place the 'important' person at the end credits.

With Carter there was no surprise we knew the eps she was going to be in, with Torri and Rainbow we didn't, as it was a big plot point. That's how I understood it worked.

Falcon Horus
August 1st, 2008, 02:10 PM
Is it that thing with BAMSR again?

I can forgive them for BAMSR as that would have made the end less of a surprise. It would have been like knowing the end to a movie... mmm... never mind, sometimes you do.

TMC maybe... But Adrift and Lifeline most certainly not, since we knew she'd be in them. If this was negotiated then so be it, I'll have to blame her agent.... But it still feels of lesser importance than the "special appearance by" AT and PM get/got.

Reiko
August 1st, 2008, 02:58 PM
» I'm for special appearence by Torri if Torri shows up again. Because, she is teh awesomest and deserves it :D

jenks
August 1st, 2008, 03:35 PM
<mod snip...you don't know, cause you weren't there> Giving her the boot was the best decision the writers ever made.

DrJenniferDex
August 1st, 2008, 04:50 PM
<mod snip...you don't know, cause you weren't there> Giving her the boot was the best decision the writers ever made.

What do you mean? I don't know the story.

Falcon Horus
August 1st, 2008, 04:57 PM
What do you mean? I don't know the story.

I think he means TH/EW... but I could be wrong.