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GateWorld
June 28th, 2008, 02:14 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/412.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 30</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE STOLEN EARTH</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 3012</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Donna and the Doctor must track down Earth after it vanishes, while the planet's greatest heroes deal with the return of the return of the Daleks.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

JackHarkness_Hot
June 28th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Well, well, well - gripping or what? :D

Harriet Jones, dear love her, "Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister" followed by "We know"

I really can't wait to see the conclusion next week, I was sitting on the edge of my seat like a little dweeb. Why wouldn't you? like you gotta love it when the "secret army" cooperated with the whole plan of calling the Doctor, that was a sweet scene. With Rose muttering, "He's coming back" or "He came back for me" despite the fact that she wasn't really involved with the calling of the Doctor though it was her who sent the "Bad Wolf" message... but to compensate Rose and Doctor running to each other was so beautiful, but no, the Dalek had to be on the street that intersects the road they were on.

Anyway, amazing first parter, love it, the Daleks are awesome and poor Sarah Jane, using a car? While Rose had what looked like a dimensional transporter, Martha has the Project Indigo and Jack had his wristwatch thing, poor Sarah only has a car. **sigh**

Ianto continues to be as cute as ever, especially when Jack references how he knew the Project Indigo.

Kateski
June 28th, 2008, 02:28 PM
I am just really overwhelmed...so much was going on in that episode. Think i'm going to have to re-watch it right now cos people are talking about hearing 'the drums' and i didn't even notice!! Gripping, really gripping stuff.
And regeneration?! Uh what?? But DT isn't leaving, right..? Bewildered and impatient=me :confused:

Billz
June 28th, 2008, 02:34 PM
This whole situation is still a paralellel universe created around Donna Noble as evidence by that worker at the Shadow Proclomation saying 'there is something on your back' meaning that Donna still has one of those Tricksters Brigade beetles attached to her.

In this alternate reality that was made around Donna, the Doctor regenerates. I wonder who the alternative Doctor will be played by next week?

wise one
June 28th, 2008, 02:48 PM
that was quite edgy on the seat, poor kaan though, he would of been quite good if he stayed normal

davros didnt really surprise me, we all knew who was going to come back, it lost the appeal to me

donna noble still has that thing on her back, likely another alternate reality inside another one since DT said he be around till 2010

where are the dalek shields gone, maybe davros couldnt give them all one since making humans out of them

harriet jones, former prime minister.......(dalek): we know

phaha best line in that ep

Reefgirl
June 28th, 2008, 02:50 PM
What the http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gif that was awsome, I don't actually know what to say yet as I've only just seen it but I loved it, I loved the way all the companions just came together, Rose's jealosy of Martha was funny and Dr/Rose Hollywood running towards eachother with cheesy 'Love Story' music I could really have done without but that's my only gripe. I'm going to have to watch it again before I can add any more but I can't wait to see who the Doctor regenerates into, I wonder if it's Christopher Ecclestone, I can't believe there's no clip of next week's show.

Line of the week

"Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister"

"We Know"

Edit Well now we know what happened to the bees and the Adipose and Pyroville planets, I loved Gwen's line about Tosh and Owen and Ianto's "Yes Ma'am" And the Medusa Cascade is the Cardiff Rift, who knew

JackHarkness_Hot
June 28th, 2008, 03:02 PM
'there is something on your back' meaning that Donna still has one of those Tricksters Brigade beetles attached to her.I thought so too so I rewatched the episode again on the BBC iPlayer and it was actually, "There was something on your back". Which Donna replies with, "Yeah, there was".

I love the incidental music that was accompanying this episode, it features almost everything from the past years.

mazzmatazz
June 28th, 2008, 03:11 PM
I loved nutty Dalek Caan. Brillian. Dalek Sec now has a contender for my affections!

Brilliant ep. I can't wait a whole week!

Kady
June 28th, 2008, 03:15 PM
loved the tiny janto moment (you need to squint):

Martha: The Indigo Project in top secret. No-one is supposed to know about that!
Jack: I met a soldier in a bar, long story!
Ianto: When was that? (N/B: look at Iantos face, which is slightly annoyed where he says this!)
Jack: Strictly professional! (N/B: Look at the slight "oh, sh*t!" look on jacks face when he says this! )

*cackles*

Line of the series: "Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister" "We Know" :lol:

I honestly think that this penultimate episode and the series finale will be a bit of a cop out as i think that its not our reality (if you know what i mean), because DT said that he would be Doctor to 2010 (there would have be a big hype if he was leaving) and that really white woman, who gave donna food, noticed "that there's something on your back"!!

oh and, er.....

WHO THE HELL WAS IT THAT DECIDING TO WRITE "TO BE CONTINUED" AT THE END, IN BIG HUGE SILVER LETTERS ACROSS THE SCREEN, WAS A GOOD IDEA?!?! They've never done that before (as far as i know)...I mean, i threw my remote across the room because of that! Are TPTB winding us up, what with that and no preview for next weeks episode?! :tealcanime22:

The preview keeps me going!! *whines*

Reefgirl
June 28th, 2008, 03:23 PM
loved the tiny janto moment (you need to squint):

Martha: The Indigo Project in top secret. No-one is supposed to know about that!
Jack: I met a soldier in a bar, long story!
Ianto: When was that? (N/B: look at Iantos face, which is slightly annoyed where he says this!)
Jack: Strictly professional! (N/B: Look at the slight "oh, sh*t!" look on jacks face when he says this! )

*cackles*

Line of the series: "Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister" "We Know" :lol:

I honestly think that this penultimate episode and the series finale will be a bit of a cop out as i think that its not our reality (if you know what i mean), because DT said that he would be Doctor to 2010 (there would have be a big hype if he was leaving) and that really white woman, who gave donna food, noticed "that there's something on your back"!!

oh and, er.....

WHO THE HELL WAS IT THAT DECIDING TO WRITE "TO BE CONTINUED" AT THE END, IN BIG HUGE SILVER LETTERS ACROSS THE SCREEN, WAS A GOOD IDEA?!?! They've never done that before (as far as i know)...I mean, i threw my remote across the room because of that! Are TPTB winding us up, what with that and no preview for next weeks episode?! :tealcanime22:

The preview keeps me going!! *whines*
Unless Everyone's been keeping a tight lid on everything and deliberatly feeding the press red herrings

Jonzey
June 28th, 2008, 03:54 PM
If that's it for the 10th doctor that's probably the worst doctor death ever. Yes, even worse than old age. If this is just another paralell universe then that's a massive cop out. And how cheesy was that running-towards-each-other thing? And the stupid TO BE CONTINUED at the end?

Apart from that, great episode. Good effects, and Davros was genuinely creepy looking.

huntress
June 28th, 2008, 03:56 PM
I am not quite coherent I tried to write a review but it came out all jumbled. So excuse the mess.

I took a shower, drank some tea and feel a bit calmer now. This review has to be written now. I have so many ideas that are spinning round my head in regards of this episode. There was so much I loved about this episode. Little things, big things and visual things too.

- The view of 26 planets and satellites in the sky was really a sight and the Dalek ships entering earth's atmosphere was just wow.
- It was wonderful to have every one of the companions in the episode and what do you know - it didn't feel overcrowded at all. It was just simply squeeworthy
- the music by Murray Gold: it was grand but it also confused me. Why are the drums back? Why is the theme from the Master back? It was! The episode had new renditions of the YANA theme. Master? :hopeful:

Sarah Jane: I love her boy and I loved how Jack, the doctor and everybody asked her who that boy is. Like a big family. Sarah Jane has of course encountered enough Daleks in her time with the doctor too and the the look on her face when she heard the voice of Davros. The shock. I love Sarah Jane. Don't you dare kill her. I am sure she won't be killed but I do wonder what will happen to save her from those two Daleks.
Torchwood: Ianto , my dear you have gained weight ;-) but he was rather relaxed. I loved how committed Jack now is. When both Gwen and Ianto ask him how he knows about Project Indigo and Jack starts to mention a bar and soldier he met there...I loved Iantos sharp look and how Jack add hastily "It was all professional, don't worry." Ianto doesn't share :g: I also loved how Jack held both Gwen and Ianto kissed them on the head and declared helplessly that there was nothing he could do. Absolutely nothing. I hope Ianto and Gwen will also make it.
Martha: Might have the most kickass job but she had the weakest storyline. It simply didn't engage me much.
Harriet Jones: You've got to love her. How she defended her actions from "Christmas Invasion" and died heroically after calling the doctor successfully.
Rose: Oh Rose. This was so weird. How come the network wasn't able to pick her up? How she tried to get in contact with the doctor and the network and wasn't able to. Why? Why was she not able to get in contact via network? The doctor was so proud and happy to see his "family", his "children" but clearly sad. "Everybody is here! :softly: Except for Rose" He so wanted to see her and when he finally did......

I sobbed. When both Rose and the doctor ran as fast as they could to each other. His incredibly happy smile. The woman he loves, the one person he so desperately wanted to see again and then EXTERMINATE! I screamed. I had tears running down my face. I just shook all over and screamed at my screen. Please, don't led it end like this. The doctor regenerating. Please no! I have two theories:

Theory 1: This is still a parallel universe. Why? Because Donna still has a trickster beetle on her back, that's why. The albino girl from the Shadow Proclamation said the same thing that everybody has said to her in "Turn Left" - that Donna has something on her back and also the priestess in Pompeii spoke about whatever Donna has on her back. It is just strange that the doctor doesn't see the beetle. So in this alternate universe the doctor regenerates, what would happen in the real universe? Rose being killed by the Dalek and not the doctor. I would hate that but RTD did say that someone would die still if it were Rose then it wouldn't make sense why the albino girl said to Donny that she is sorry for her future loss. Donna wouldn't weep over a dead Rose.

The other theory: The hand started to bubble furiously. Is it maybe possible that the doctor regenerates again into his old self because there is still a piece of him that was not affected by the Dalek beam? Or what if two doctors regenerate? Our doctor (David Tennant) and a different one. Maybe the one that River Song has encountered?

and the ending no preview, that is so mean. How will we survive till next Saturday?

Major Clanger
June 28th, 2008, 04:01 PM
There is never (well, in New Who) a preview for the last ep, as far as I know. And it's a long ep too
*squee*

What did Ianto say when Jack was schmoozing with Sarah Jane?

queen_hathor
June 28th, 2008, 04:40 PM
Bewildered and impatient=me :confused:
Ha ha, glad it's not just me. I wish I'd skipped it now then I could get it off bbci player next Sat & watch the 2 together :(


I wonder who the alternative Doctor will be played by next week?
Do you think there will be one? They might not actually show anyone :-/


DT said he be around till 2010
I heard he hadn't been approached to do the next series but he's doing 2008 & 2009 Christmas specials. Has it been confirmed now whether he'll be in 1 more series?


WHO THE HELL WAS IT THAT DECIDING TO WRITE "TO BE CONTINUED" AT THE END, IN BIG HUGE SILVER LETTERS ACROSS THE SCREEN, WAS A GOOD IDEA?!?! They've never done that before (as far as i know)...I mean, i threw my remote across the room because of that! Are TPTB winding us up, what with that and no preview for next weeks episode?! :tealcanime22:

The preview keeps me going!! *whines*
My sentiments exactly!


There is never (well, in New Who) a preview for the last ep, as far as I know.
There has been for most of them, I'm almost certain :(

Naonak
June 28th, 2008, 04:47 PM
That was fantastic. :D

Aww... I don't want Donna to go... IMO this was probably CT's best episode so far. Julian Bleach was excellent as Davros, too.

Random "SQUEE" moments:
Clom! They stole Clom! :D
Jack getting told off by Harriet Jones (former Prime Minister)... twice. :D
Gwen fancies the Doctor! And Donna fancies Jack! :D (How long before the Jack/Donna shippers spring up...? :p)
Even in Doctor Who, Ianto's getting the best line. "No broken bones... Slight loss of dignity... No change there, then."



It's damned unlikely that we're getting Doctor Eleven next week. Aside from the fact that David Tennant would get a far more epic death scene than that (he better do, anyway)...
... pictures got out of David filming the Christmas 2008 special, so unless they actually got him to hang around in costume for a few weeks just to throw people off, he's not leaving.
Plus, with everything that's gotten out over the last couple of years - the Daleks in season 2, the Master, BP leaving, FA leaving... - do you really think they could have kept that quiet?

Whatever happens to the Doctor will probably have something to do with the Hand, although I'm still hoping that certain rumours/spoilers aren't true...

Although I can't help but feel there'll be another massive reset like last year :(, having it be another parallel universe still formed around Donna would be an even worse cop-out than that. It was definitely "There was something on your back", though...

And what the hell happened to the Bad Wolf stuff...? :S

queen_hathor
June 28th, 2008, 04:50 PM
It's damned unlikely that we're getting Doctor Eleven next week. Aside from the fact that David Tennant would get a far more epic death scene than that (he better do, anyway)...
... pictures got out of David filming the Christmas special, so unless theY actually got him to hang around in costume for a few weeks just to throw people off, he's not leaving.
Plus, with everything that's gotten out over the last couple of years - the Daleks in season 2, the Master, BP leaving, FA leaving... - do you really think they could have kept that quite?

And what the hell happened to the Bad Wolf stuff...? :S
Spoiler - very true, no I don't think they could lol.

Bad wolf - not a bloody clue!!

Alipeeps
June 28th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Holy crap. Just... holy crap!

So much going on in this ep that I feel I need a few hours to cogitate - and possibly to watch it again! - before I can comment coherently. Obviously my overriding thoughts right now are "Nooooooooooooooooooo! You evil people! You can't do this to me!!!" and "Is it Saturday yet?"

I was quite happily not getting worried cos we know David has filmed the Xmas special and is signed up for the other specials... but then I started getting paranoid that that's all misdirection (they've done it before and knowingly lied to the effect that Rose was never coming back when they always planned to bring her back) and that this is it! Eeep! :S


Unless Everyone's been keeping a tight lid on everything and deliberatly feeding the press red herrings

That's my worry! Someone reassure me please!!!

Naonak
June 28th, 2008, 05:13 PM
I was quite happily not getting worried cos we know David has filmed the Xmas special and is signed up for the other specials... but then I started getting paranoid that that's all misdirection (they've done it before and knowingly lied to the effect that Rose was never coming back when they always planned to bring her back) and that this is it! Eeep! :S

That's my worry! Someone reassure me please!!!
OK... Just breathe... Christmas special pictures (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-561218/David-Morrissey-star-Doctor-Who-Christmas-special-featuring-deadly-Cybermen.html)...! (Spoilers, obviously...)

JackHarkness_Hot
June 28th, 2008, 05:19 PM
I'm gonna stick to the belief that the Doctor is fine, I'm sure he could do with a cup of tea first though, lol.

Jonzey
June 28th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Well I'm reassured :)

But how do you stop a regeneration?

And if he does regenerate, I think it would overload the next episode. We already have all the previous characters, Earth in danger, Davros and the Daleks, throwing in a new Doctor adapting to his new body and personality would be too much. Besides, last time he regenerated he spent 3/4 of an episode sleeping.

JackHarkness_Hot
June 28th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Honestly I don't know and I don't wanna speculate, I just want the week to fly so I can watch the conclusion and find out how he'll get out of the regeneration, lol.

ShadowMaat
June 28th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Holy mother, what an episode!

First and foremost, Miss Red Eyes said, "There WAS something on your back." Past tense. Donna doesn't still have a bug on her back, although I think she's probably going to be central to whatever happens to bring back Ten. Whether it's her own universe-spawning abilities, the severed hand, the second-out-of-sync or something else entirely, I'm guessing it'll all be down to her.

David leaving the show is a bit TOO big to have been so successfully hidden. I can see David misdirecting things a bit by saying he'd be around in 2010 when it might not necessarily be true, but the fact that there's been little or no evidence to suggest he won't be around is a little more convincing. To me, anyway. The most convincing thing, IMO, is that River Song recognized him. While he certainly could have done so in between eps I don't think TPTB would play it that way- he's gonna meet her again... as Ten.

The ep itself was so full of awesome I'm still trying to process it. ;) I deeply regret that I didn't post my "So Long, and Thanks For All the Flowers" gag last week when I thought of it. LOL!

Multiple crossovers! I love it! This is the way crossovers SHOULD be done, IMO. Save them up for something super spectacular and then blow the doors off everything. :) HOWEVER, points off for Jack leaving his team behind WHEN THE DALEKS ARE COMING! Grrr. It isn't as if his teleport can't handle multiple people.

Harriet Jones! Yay! I laughed loud enough that the people upstairs probably heard me when she identified herself to the Daleks and they said, "Yes. We know who you are." LMAO! Even the Daleks know! Too funny!

Ianto did get some good lines (the dignity thing someone mentioned earlier), but can someone tell a Dumb Yank what show he was watching that made him laugh?

Still a bit amazed at my love for Rose. Probably because she still hasn't really had any scenes with the Doctor and instead is busy being all kick-ass and competent and not at all like the sulky, stroppy ***** I loathed by the end of S2.

Wow. Loved it. And the whole thing about the Dalek getting through to the Time War... you KNOW that's gonna come into play at some point.

Kateski
June 28th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Holy mother, what an episode!

First and foremost, Miss Red Eyes said, "There WAS something on your back." Past tense. Donna doesn't still have a bug on her back, although I think she's probably going to be central to whatever happens to bring back Ten. Whether it's her own universe-spawning abilities, the severed hand, the second-out-of-sync or something else entirely, I'm guessing it'll all be down to her.

David leaving the show is a bit TOO big to have been so successfully hidden. I can see David misdirecting things a bit by saying he'd be around in 2010 when it might not necessarily be true, but the fact that there's been little or no evidence to suggest he won't be around is a little more convincing. To me, anyway. The most convincing thing, IMO, is that River Song recognized him. While he certainly could have done so in between eps I don't think TPTB would play it that way- he's gonna meet her again... as Ten.

The ep itself was so full of awesome I'm still trying to process it. ;) I deeply regret that I didn't post my "So Long, and Thanks For All the Flowers" gag last week when I thought of it. LOL!

Multiple crossovers! I love it! This is the way crossovers SHOULD be done, IMO. Save them up for something super spectacular and then blow the doors off everything. :) HOWEVER, points off for Jack leaving his team behind WHEN THE DALEKS ARE COMING! Grrr. It isn't as if his teleport can't handle multiple people.

Harriet Jones! Yay! I laughed loud enough that the people upstairs probably heard me when she identified herself to the Daleks and they said, "Yes. We know who you are." LMAO! Even the Daleks know! Too funny!

Ianto did get some good lines (the dignity thing someone mentioned earlier), but can someone tell a Dumb Yank what show he was watching that made him laugh?

Still a bit amazed at my love for Rose. Probably because she still hasn't really had any scenes with the Doctor and instead is busy being all kick-ass and competent and not at all like the sulky, stroppy ***** I loathed by the end of S2.

Wow. Loved it. And the whole thing about the Dalek getting through to the Time War... you KNOW that's gonna come into play at some point.

It's the Paul O' Grady Show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_O%27Grady_Show

Willow'sCat
June 28th, 2008, 06:03 PM
I was a bit taken aback by the regeneration thing.:S

I mean even if it is a parallel universe *thingy* there should be no other Doctor as the Time Lords lived out side of time and space (or something like that... he explained it in series two, I think they also mentioned it in the classic series, but I would need a lot of re-watching to find where :P)

*ponders*

I guess with no more Time Lords, only one TARDIS (that we know of) I could believe this, this thing of a parallel Doctor/Time Lord... I just don't actually want to. :( He should be and remain unique IMHO not used in some cheap way to end a finale. :rolleyes:

It would be much better if DT had decided to leave and this is a real regeneration and the specials are with a new Doctor. However as I had already seen the piccies some have mentioned and more... well it ain't going to be *our* Doctor is it? Is it? Would they (TPTB) go to all the trouble of filming Chrissy scenes that will never happen? Just to make a us think he is staying on? I wouldn't put it past them :P but I still think they are messing with us either way.

I am willing to give them the benefit of a dam good explanation. :cool::cool:

Anyho... my concerns about regeneration aside.;)

BRILLIANT EPISODE!!!

I loved Torchwood's bits, I bet this was filmed a few months later, all three look like they haven't been to the gym in a while :D and I loved that despite it being in Doctor Who they didn't shy away from Jack and Ianto's relationship *sigh* and Gwen was phoning Rhys, they mentioned Owen and Tosh *sniff* and how cool is Ianto when he packs heat. :D

It makes me really miss Torchwood though. :(

SJS, I haven't watched the spin off so I was a bit lost there, but I know the SJS character so well that it didn't really matter. Luke (is that his name?) he is not really her son right? :S Adoptive?

Martha, best not mention her.

Rose, so over the top with that gun, but brilliant. I loved it when she smiled at The Doctor, now that was Rose, 100% pure Rose. :D

Jack. Man in charge. LOVE.

Donna, something is brewing there, I keep thinking of Buffy and Dawn, Dawn being the key. Is Donna also the 'key' to something? She keeps saying she is just a temp. She is obviously so much more. Again CT played her part so well. I will truly miss her when she leaves. :(

Harriet, well she redeemed herself I guess. I never felt she was a bad person just slightly misguided. Although you can argue she was right about aliens coming and The Doctor not being there... I still feel the point wasn't about The Doctor not being there, but more about the point of what kind of race do we want to be. I prefer a dead one with dignity and compassion to a living one with malice and hatred... leave that kind of thinking to Davros.

Professor Richard Dawkins. That was it? Two seconds. I got my hopes up, oh well.

Daleks: Davros. Pity we all knew it was coming. I would have preferred to not know but even the trailers had him in them. :rolleyes: I have always loved the character of Davros, he is so much of an Adolf Hitler type persona, he really use to freak me out whenever he appeared. I didn't really feel that way here, maybe I am older or maybe he isn't as threatening... yet. Interesting to see where it goes from here.

I do love me some Daleks. Really it isn't Doctor Who without them. I can take a lot of Daleks before I get sick of them. :D An insane (more insane) Dalek like Cann is priceless! lol He was so cute in a totally wrong way. Also what did he say about a companion? "Everlasting death for the most faithful companion" ? Now if Torchwood wasn't going on... ooh maybe Jack gives The Doctor some of his life, so he can die now.

Or

I am thinking Rose may die.

Donna may also but if Donna wasn't real (like Dawn) then would her death count?

I think Rose will die. Rose has to be seen, in the context of New Who, as the most faithful of all his companions. Also when she was Bad Wolf, TARDIS heart and all, she could see everything in time and space, all that had been and all that WILL be. Maybe she already knew this was going to happen. Maybe she has always known, but until she could find a way to see an end to it (Donna?) she couldn't say anything to The Doctor...

It's a thought. ;)

I seriously cannot wait until next week. :D

Uranium118
June 28th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Incredible episode! I can only hope next week's finale will be as good, or better.

There's so much that was left unanswered. The Shadow Proclamation, I hope we see more of them and Dr Jones' square key, I want to know what it is!!!

Grayvorn
June 28th, 2008, 06:27 PM
So awesome I nearly collapsed with delight!

The Valiant getting pounded by Daleks, Martha ending up at her parents place, every scene at Torchwood, Mr.Smith..............I could go on.

That was without a doubt one of the most awesome episodes of Doctor Who I have ever seen and I cannot wait for the conclusion, especially with that cliffhanger..... :D

ShadowMaat
June 28th, 2008, 06:37 PM
So, assuming that we do get to see a new regeneration- for however long- do you think he'll be Eleven at some point down the road or is he going to be some "False Doctor" and we'll get a completely new Eleven at some point.

Also, just realized, technically the regeneration could stick and one or more of the specials could center on River. Assuming the specials are non-linear.

Willow, what you said about Donna... Do you mean that Donna is the Osterhagen Key that Martha has? That could be interesting and would theoretically explain a few things, though it'd leave a ton more questions in its wake. And I dunno, "salvation of mankind" tends to make me think of some kind of genesis device that could repopulate the planet or something similar.

BTW, what was with the Master's drumbeat playing when Harriet Jones' signal was being received?

Willow'sCat
June 28th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Just wanted to add.

I REALLY don't want David to leave. :(

What ever they are planning I just hope David stays on. I can live with weird arsed endings, I would completely accept a new actor in the role, even Nesbitt :rolleyes::cool: but I just want David there for a bit longer.

He is such a good actor and totally hot! lol :D:P

btw: When I say it would be cheap, I mean it would be cheap if the regeneration wasn't real for our Doctor. I am fully aware that Classic Who used the regeneration thing to end series. I remember waiting and waiting to see what Peter Davison would be like as Doctor... how could Tristan (I loved Tristan) become The Doctor? :P But he was brilliant as it turned out. :D

Willow'sCat
June 28th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Willow, what you said about Donna... Do you mean that Donna is the Osterhagen Key that Martha has? That could be interesting and would theoretically explain a few things, though it'd leave a ton more questions in its wake. And I dunno, "salvation of mankind" tends to make me think of some kind of genesis device that could repopulate the planet or something similar.Well not so much that 'key' or maybe. :S

I was just thinking out loud that while on Buffy, Dawn was human but not, she was a key to open another dimension. Well I guess I am thinking as RTD does love the Buffyverse and given that Rose is from another dimension, one The Doctor said was locked for him, either the key to opening it is Donna or maybe the answer to closing something is Donna. Not as literal as Dawn, but a 'key' in some way to stopping this from happening, or even reversing it.

I don't know, but it seems a little odd with everything that is going on with Donna. I think we are pretty much all in the one mind that there is something else happening with Donna in the background. ;) We know she is involved in whatever is going to happen, and not just as another companion.

River seemed to also be hinting at that, even Rose had that look on her face when see told Donna she would die. Now Donna thinks it was her 'other' self that died, but what if it wasn't. What if Rose still knows 'this' Donna will die?

The square key that Martha has may be related to this or it may be a red herring. I have no idea. Should be fun finding out though. :D


BTW, what was with the Master's drumbeat playing when Harriet Jones' signal was being received?No more money for new music? :P

jonno
June 28th, 2008, 08:02 PM
There is never (well, in New Who) a preview for the last ep, as far as I know. And it's a long ep too
*squee*

Indeed - from the BBC Doctor Who Website:




If you've just watched the thrilling cliff-hanger to The Stolen Earth, you're probably wondering how we could possibly wrap things up in just one more regular episode.

The answer is - we can't. That's why next week's, episode, Journey's End, will run for an amazing 65 minutes! That's almost 50 per cent longer than a regular episode, and even longer than the first two Christmas Specials.

Make sure you're glued to your TV at the slightly earlier time of 6.40pm on Saturday 5th July so you don't miss a moment of epic action.

If you can't wait that long, however, tune in to BBC One tomorrow just before 1pm to see a bonus trailer for the episode. We'll have it online here at the Official Site straight afterwards too.


As for the ep ... Wowsers. That is all ...

insomniac8400
June 28th, 2008, 09:46 PM
I'm gonna bet Donna is a time lord and that giant ring is her "pocket watch". If I recall the master heard a heart beat when he was on the verge of realizing who he was in utopia. And acted somewhat in that same disconnected/disoriented way. It would be an interesting twist. Maybe she will sacrifice herself to undo everything we have seen happen in this episode. Another time lord found and lost.

And as for the scene when rose and the doctor were running at each other. I was so hoping Jack was gonna teleport right between them just before they met. That would have been great. Because having Rose carry a weapon that can easily blow up a dalek and watch the doctor get shot was kinda lame.

Irish Eyes
June 28th, 2008, 09:48 PM
^Well, at least we're getting some sort of preview tomorrow. Thank goodness. :D

One small thing I loved in this episode was the look on Donna's face when the Doctor and Rose were running towards each other. Donna totally gets how the Doctor feels about Rose and isn't threatened by it. Just another reason I love Donna. :)

I hope Donna sticks around for awhile, but I'm afraid the omens aren't good.

ShadowMaat
June 28th, 2008, 10:01 PM
And as for the scene when rose and the doctor were running at each other. I was so hoping Jack was gonna teleport right between them just before they met.
LMAO! Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that. :D

Didn't think Rose's complete stupefication when the Doctor got shot was stupid. If I'd traveled across the multiverse trying to hunt someone down only to watch him "die" right before I could hug him, I'd probably freeze for a crucial second or three, too. +++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++

Willow'sCat
June 28th, 2008, 10:26 PM
I'm gonna bet Donna is a time lord and that giant ring is her "pocket watch". If I recall the master heard a heart beat when he was on the verge of realizing who he was in utopia. And acted somewhat in that same disconnected/disoriented way. It would be an interesting twist. Maybe she will sacrifice herself to undo everything we have seen happen in this episode. Another time lord found and lost.I was thinking that too, until I re-watched the part where the women brings her water, as she is sitting on the steps. She says Donna is something new. (Dam me and my Buffy watching!) That is almost like with Dawn being the key. She was new as well. (EDIT: Ooh had a thought; maybe Donna is new as in her persona as Donna is new but she is a Time Lady. Also wondering what the women meant by 'sorry about your loss... the loss that is to come. )

Donna could still be a Time Lady.;)

I think however, if Donna is a Time Lady, then she is a 'new' one. Maybe only just created as the war started, maybe she was a baby and that is why she would be 'new' to being a Time Lady.

Or she could be something created to end this or stop it from happening. Even that bug thing could have been used for good really, maybe this is a lot worse then whatever else may have happened to Earth if Donna had turned right?

Donna is the key... to something! :D

I don't know! I am going mad with the waiting (and my own speculation) and it has only been 6 hours since I *first* watch it! :p:D

Mr Prophet
June 28th, 2008, 11:41 PM
I'm gonna bet Donna is a time lord and that giant ring is her "pocket watch". If I recall the master heard a heart beat when he was on the verge of realizing who he was in utopia. And acted somewhat in that same disconnected/disoriented way. It would be an interesting twist. Maybe she will sacrifice herself to undo everything we have seen happen in this episode. Another time lord found and lost.

Didn't the Master hear the drums, rather than a heartbeat? Still, Donna as Romana would have a nice, sorry, ring to it.

Trek_Girl42
June 28th, 2008, 11:55 PM
Still hyperventilating after that episode, holy frak!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Possibly the most brilliant crossover ever, all of the stories worked fantastic with each other and seeing the Doctor talking to the companions on the screen! :eek: And then Donna, Rose, Jack and the Doctor all in the TARDIS together. WITH THE DOCTOR REGENERATING!

Didn't see that ending coming. :eek:

I know there are these mentions of DT filming the Christmas special, but I'm still genuinely worried. :S And I want to remain worried all week. :D *refuses to look at any pics or spoilers*

I WANT Ten to stick around but how does he get out of this????? (my guess being either the hand or Jack- there were so many shots of that hand, it has to come in to play somewhere)

And the Master's drumbeats.....that's got to be important as well! Is it too much to hope for an appearance by John Simm? :P

And the opening credits with all those names that barely lasted a second on there made me laugh with nerdish glee. I love this show.

*can't form any more coherent thought*

ShadowMaat
June 29th, 2008, 12:43 AM
You'd think the Doctor would have sensed if Donna was a Time Lady. And having her be "hidden" like the Master was would be flat-out stupid. Particularly since they just used that idea last year.

Also, wouldn't Donna "dying" in front of the lorry have caused a few hiccups since she would have regenerated? Unless she's still "locked" in human form.

Nope, sorry, I think Donna's something special, but I don't think she's a Time Lady. :)

And yes, the Master heard drums, not a heartbeat. Although I do wonder what that heartbeat means. I really hope they don't pull an "it was all a dream" thing and have this all be something Donna imagined as she was dying (and listening to her heartbeat slow down). Fortunately that doesn't work for a lot of reasons.

Teddybrown
June 29th, 2008, 01:40 AM
Absolutely Bloody Brilliant :lol:

Best ever episode in my opinion!!! Cant wait for Finale!
This is the way crossovers should be done!!!
Great links to past episodes. Explained some things like the missing planets
Is DT meant to be leaving??
Cant wait for second half!!!

The bit in the Shadow Proclamation was funny with the doctor speaking the alien language
Was also funny when Harriet Jones was like 'Harriet Jones former Primeminister' and everyones like 'We Know'!
Bit where Doctor and Rose were running towards eachother, I thought Rose would be shot not the Doctor
The severed hand in the Tardis has to have some relevance because its in loads of shots
The Doctor regenerating though, never saw that coming

huntress
June 29th, 2008, 01:46 AM
Something that is slightly OT but I have been noticing a while here (in a good way don't worry). We are really blessed. In this part of the GatWorld forum we get mostly gushing and very little ranting compared to the SGA and SG-1 folders. While in the SGA and SG-1 folders there are anti threads and there are precious few episodes on which all fans agree that they were done well. Here we all basically just slap each other on the back with huge grins and say "Well, that was bloody brilliant wasn't it?"

ShadowMaat are you sure it was past tense what Miss Red Eyes said? I have to re-watch the episode. In that case it seems to me that the lady can also look into the past and the future. Interesting. I thought she is just a clairvoyant.

I think we all agree that whatever is going to happen in the next episode will have to do with Donna. I really wonder what she is. I don't think she is something like Dawn but maybe she is a bit like the "dream vortex" in Sandman ( those who have read the graphic novel "The Doll's House" from the Sandman series know what I am talking about). Maybe Donna is a person who was born as an anomaly and threatens and is able to mainpualte the normal space-time continuum. In the book sandman hasto kill Rose Walker, the dream vortex, but her grandmother who was supposed to be the vortex offers herself instead. It would be an interesting twist. Donna the annomaly...it woudl make her something of a time lord.

Willow'sCat
June 29th, 2008, 01:59 AM
And then Donna, Rose, Jack and the Doctor all in the TARDIS together. I was so taken aback by the regeneration moment I totally forgot Jack was with Rose in the TARDIS! lol It wasn't until I re-watched it that I thought, oh Jack and Rose. :D:p

I know there are these mentions of DT filming the Christmas special, but I'm still genuinely worried.Actually so am I a bit. Although I have faith in the BBC's relationship with British tabloids :p they so would have leaked this kind of info by now. :D They did with Chris and Billie. OR so it would seem.

And the opening credits with all those names that barely lasted a second on there made me laugh with nerdish glee.I loved that 'cause first is proves totally that Jack is a companion, ;) and secondly Billie got the all important last bill. Last is like second when you can't be second... er something like that anyway. :p And both Eve and Gareth are in the credits as the ep starts proper. Eve would have already had her name in Doctor Who though. ;)


You'd think the Doctor would have sensed if Donna was a Time Lady. And having her be "hidden" like the Master was would be flat-out stupid. Particularly since they just used that idea last year.If she is new, she may not be a true Time Lady. So The Doctor may not be able to sense her... also (not sure on this) but if she is 'hidden by the watch' thingy, can another Time Lord sense them? Wouldn't she have to be 'unhidden'?

I agree it would be flat-out stupid but to me so is having Rose travel between dimensions (voids) that The Doctor said couldn't be breached any longer. I mean if it was that easy, as easy as it appears to be for Rose (and you watch confidential she ain't the only one doing some breaching) then why hasn't The Doctor done it himself? Why hasn't he at least tried?


Also, wouldn't Donna "dying" in front of the lorry have caused a few hiccups since she would have regenerated? Unless she's still "locked" in human form.
Maybe they can die when they are in human form like humans do. I have no idea but it is an interesting question. Mind you it wasn't as if they stayed on her face after she died... we only saw as much as RTD wanted us to see maybe. ;)

Night Marshal
June 29th, 2008, 02:25 AM
^Well, at least we're getting some sort of preview tomorrow. Thank goodness. :D

One small thing I loved in this episode was the look on Donna's face when the Doctor and Rose were running towards each other. Donna totally gets how the Doctor feels about Rose and isn't threatened by it. Just another reason I love Donna. :)

I hope Donna sticks around for awhile, but I'm afraid the omens aren't good.

Donna feels more like a friend to the Doctor than the more Romantic overtones he had with Rose and to a much smaller degree Martha. I like the fact they seem like buddies that they could be drinking in a pub one night and saving the world another.

As for a Preview I say don't watch I want to know how this episode ends so badly I don't dare be spoiled.

memnarch
June 29th, 2008, 02:53 AM
I didn't know how they were going to top the Last of the Time Lords Trilogy from last year. Now I know. Epicness abounded, great character moments and one of the most fitting death scenes I've ever seen made this episode great.

Harriet Jones' last words were absolutely true to her character. I love that joke and the fact that the Daleks responded to it was probably the funniest thing I've seen in quite a while.

The Shadow Proclamation was a bit disappointing, but I don't think we've seen the last of them. I think they'll be a bit more impressive if they come in like the cavalry and wipe out a bunch of Daleks. Judoon to the rescue!

The Medusa Cascade was pretty much what I expected it to be, although I don't think we've seen the last of it either. The Doctor mentions visiting it as a young man of 90 and in Last of the Time Lords the Master said that the Doctor singlehandedly sealed the rift of the Medusa Cascade during the Time War. Also, it was mentioned that the secret of his name lies in the Medusa Cascade. Clearly the Doctor has strong ties to this location.

On a side note not related to the episode, I'm pretty sure that eventually, but possibly next season, we'll see the Time War. The one place and time he can never go to? Of course he has to go back there. The temptation for him (and the writers) would be too great.

Pitry
June 29th, 2008, 03:34 AM
Double-you Tee Ef. And Wow.

!!!

Doctor! Donna! Rose! Martha! Jack! Sarah Jane! Gwen! Ianto! ToshMention! Luke! MariaClydeMention! Harriet Jones! Judoon! Davros! InsaneDalekCaan! Bees&lst planets & the Medusa Cascade & the Shadow Proclamation! squee. :)
Interesting choice, not bothering to explain all the spin off bits. And hoporay for Sarah Jane telling Mr Smith to stop with his annoying rituals, sigh.

I wonder. They made a point of mentioning the last time Earth was stolen.... that was by the Time Lords, wasn't it? The end of Trial of a Time Lord is a bit hazy cos Mel got on my nerves but I'm pretty sure it was them? And mentioning Callufrax from The Key to Time stories.... odd. Ah, and of coruse "why would anyone want Clom?" Ha.
Rose being jealous about Martha, tsk tsk.
Jack flirting with Sarah Jane (abnd being told off by Harriet Jones, brilliant), Donna asking about him, Gwen commenting about the Doctor - ha! And that settles it, Torchwood do know who the Doctor is.
"I am Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister."
"Yes, we know who you are. Exterminate!" that bit was completely hilarious. :)

Ah. And the regeneration. Mmph. Yeah, I'm worried. Well, I don't think the Beeb would lie in the press release saying David Tennant is in all the specials... but... ermph. I don't want DT to go!! :(
I was actualy expecting Rose to be exterminated. I mean, the both of them running towards each other with Rose's music... come on! Ah, well. I am hoping the companion who's gonna be "permenantly dead", as Dalek Caan put it, isn't going to be Martha, too much of a cop out.
Oooh and Dalek Caan! "I fleeeeeeew". All Daleks should be insane. It does them wonders. He's officially my favourite Dalek.

I want episode 13. And a trailer, damnit! they owe me a next time trailer! Gah!

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 03:45 AM
OK... Just breathe... Christmas special pictures (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-561218/David-Morrissey-star-Doctor-Who-Christmas-special-featuring-deadly-Cybermen.html)...! (Spoilers, obviously...)

Thank you! That's just what I needed! I knew I'd seen pics somewhere but couldn't remember what was in them. But I'm still paranoid that this is some form of evil misdirection! :lol:


But how do you stop a regeneration?


I really don't know - I wouldn't even guess at where to speculate. But I'm terribly impatient to find out! :lol:


HOWEVER, points off for Jack leaving his team behind WHEN THE DALEKS ARE COMING! Grrr. It isn't as if his teleport can't handle multiple people.

He didn't know. He didn't see the screen showing the saucer on the way and they didn't tell him. Bless them, they nobly let him go and do what needed doing... that's why when he was lauging and saying he was coming back, they didn't say anything and just looked serious and waved him off. They were sacrificing themselves... Bless.

Mind you, not really sure why cos they could have said something and gone with him and what difference would it have made really? Why did they need to stay at Torchwood?


Harriet Jones! Yay! I laughed loud enough that the people upstairs probably heard me when she identified herself to the Daleks and they said, "Yes. We know who you are." LMAO! Even the Daleks know! Too funny!

That was just brilliant. Loved it! :D


I WANT Ten to stick around but how does he get out of this????? (my guess being either the hand or Jack- there were so many shots of that hand, it has to come in to play somewhere)


I rather think the hand has to play into it somewhere cos the certainly deliberately panned past it/focused on it at least once. Foreshadowing?


The bit in the Shadow Proclamation was funny with the doctor speaking the alien language


Bit odd though cos the TARDIS translates everything? Sure we saw the Judoon speaking their own language in Smith and Jones but we weren't seeing it through the Doctor's eyes, as it were. So why, with the Doctor and Donna stood right there with the TARDIS, would the Judoon's words not get translated (and indeed, the Doctor's reply)? Feels a little bit like logic was ignored for the sake of a cool gag.

melfan
June 29th, 2008, 04:02 AM
I was absolutely blown away by this episode. I just recently started watching this show from the new series and onwards, and I am loving it!
The Crossovers was awsome (only seen Torchwood, not the other show though)
Can't wait until next week when the conclusion comes.

Willow'sCat
June 29th, 2008, 04:13 AM
I wonder. They made a point of mentioning the last time Earth was stolen.... that was by the Time Lords, wasn't it? "The Dalek invasion of Earth"? The Daleks try and use the planet like a space ship, er something like that anyway. Needless to say they don't succeed in moving it anywhere. ;)

I think that is the ep in question as one of the lines on the Classic site of the BBC has "we are the masters of Earth" just like in this eppy. :)

Reefgirl
June 29th, 2008, 04:20 AM
"The Most Loyal Companion Will Die" That's got to be Rose (with any luck) It can't be Sarah-Jane or Jack (The Sarah-Jane Adventures and Torchwood would be worthless without them) so, in reality, it's a toss up between Rose and Donna

I've watched it again and I can't hear the 'Drums' a heartbeat when Donna was talking to the Albino Woman but not drums

Tracy Jane
June 29th, 2008, 04:23 AM
The osterhagen key is some sort of contingency plan in the case of Earth's destruction. At least that's what I'm assuming, seeing as "Osterhagen" is an anagram of "Earth's Gone".

As for the regeneration.... Billie lied to the press for ages, saying she had no plans to return, when her return had been planned right from the moment she left. And RTD has been boasting about what a coup it would be to kill off a main character without it leaking out. And didn't CT say in an interview that DT wasn't returning, and then DT hadto come out and deny everything and say he'd signed on for 2010?

I'm not really sure either way, but as much as I love ten, if they managed to pull this off without it laking, it would be amazing.

And let's face it, the fact that there has been a steady stream of leaks throughout the past 4 seasons with the black/red daleks, Davros, Rose and other things... almost makes me wonder if those leaks were engineered to make us think it is impossible to keep anything a secret.

And one last thought.... getting DT back to shoot a false scene or two, to throw the tabloids off the scent? Is it that hard?

---

On the other hand, there's been so much talk of clones, DNA, regeneration, and other such bits and pieces this season, plus the close up on the jar, that I can also believe that there will be some weird and wonderful twist.

Dusk
June 29th, 2008, 04:43 AM
A brilliant episode, for all the reasons you have given. My one gripe is being thoroughly let down by The Shadow Proclamation. What a bore! Surely the intergalactic police would be more... well, more!

I too was quite taken aback by the cliffhanger, and I dearly hope it isn't a quick fix solution 60 seconds into the next episode. You know what I reckon, is that the next episode will begin somewhere else, perhaps even sometime else, without an immediate resolution to the situation, much like "Sound of Drums"/"Last of the Time Lords".

Also, UNIT comes about with some truly inspired technology through reverse-engineering. But they cannot arm themselves with anything better than bullets and old skool guns? Bah!

The Time War was "time-locked"? Hmm, and yet Khan managed to slip in without hindrance.


Bit odd though cos the TARDIS translates everything? Sure we saw the Judoon speaking their own language in Smith and Jones but we weren't seeing it through the Doctor's eyes, as it were. So why, with the Doctor and Donna stood right there with the TARDIS, would the Judoon's words not get translated (and indeed, the Doctor's reply)? Feels a little bit like logic was ignored for the sake of a cool gag.

We are simply hearing the scene as the Judoon hear it. The TARDIS is translating, but not for us. This serves as a cool revisit to the Judoon language and also keeps us wondering what exactly was exchanged, whilst still maintaining continuity.

Next week will come quickly, and the episode will be amazing, and then it will all be over, until Christmas, until next year!

Pitry
June 29th, 2008, 04:53 AM
Thank you! That's just what I needed! I knew I'd seen pics somewhere but couldn't remember what was in them. But I'm still paranoid that this is some form of evil misdirection! :lol:


I'm keeping optimistic not because of the pictures but because of the press release that clearly stated he's back for the specials... don't think the BBC would have lied in a press release. BP and DT lying in interviews and such (for example about BP leaving) is a different matter, they don't have the same public responsibility.
Hoping not.
IOf course, it could all be some sort of mad timeline bits and he does regenerate but we see Ten instead of Eleven... I hope not!!



"The Dalek invasion of Earth"? The Daleks try and use the planet like a space ship, er something like that anyway. Needless to say they don't succeed in moving it anywhere. ;)

I think that is the ep in question as one of the lines on the Classic site of the BBC has "we are the masters of Earth" just like in this eppy. :)

Mmm.. hey moved it as well in Dalek Invasion of Earth? I haven't watched that one, TBH. But I'm pretty sure it was moved on Trial of a Time Lord as well.


"The Most Loyal Companion Will Die" That's got to be Rose (with any luck) It can't be Sarah-Jane or Jack (The Sarah-Jane Adventures and Torchwood would be worthless without them) so, in reality, it's a toss up between Rose and Donna

I've watched it again and I can't hear the 'Drums' a heartbeat when Donna was talking to the Albino Woman but not drums

One might argue the most loyal companion is MArtha, because of what she had to go through for the Doctor. I hope this isn't the case!

Oooh, and on another note, Gwen mentioned both Owen and Tosh, not just Owen. Squee :)

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 05:09 AM
I'm keeping optimistic not because of the pictures but because of the press release that clearly stated he's back for the specials... don't think the BBC would have lied in a press release. BP and DT lying in interviews and such (for example about BP leaving) is a different matter, they don't have the same public responsibility.
Hoping not.

Good point. In fact, I recall RTD mentioning something in an interview recently, in his usual jovial manner, about how unfair it was that they have to tell the truth because of some rules or legislation, that he wants to lie to the fans and have everything be a surprise! :lol:

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 05:12 AM
Indeed - from the BBC Doctor Who Website:


If you've just watched the thrilling cliff-hanger to The Stolen Earth, you're probably wondering how we could possibly wrap things up in just one more regular episode.

The answer is - we can't. That's why next week's, episode, Journey's End, will run for an amazing 65 minutes! That's almost 50 per cent longer than a regular episode, and even longer than the first two Christmas Specials.

Make sure you're glued to your TV at the slightly earlier time of 6.40pm on Saturday 5th July so you don't miss a moment of epic action.

If you can't wait that long, however, tune in to BBC One tomorrow just before 1pm to see a bonus trailer for the episode. We'll have it online here at the Official Site straight afterwards too.


Where on the website did you find that? Cos I can't see it mentioned anywhere on there and I've just sat through the last 5 minutes of the freaking Politics Show and the first few seconds of Eastenders and no promo! And nothing on the website either. :(

Reefgirl
June 29th, 2008, 05:15 AM
Where on the website did you find that? Cos I can't see it mentioned anywhere on there and I've just sat through the last 5 minutes of the freaking Politics Show and the first few seconds of Eastenders and no promo! And nothing on the website either. :(
It's on the BBC site, I'm waiting for it to come online too

Jonzey
June 29th, 2008, 05:24 AM
Where on the website did you find that? Cos I can't see it mentioned anywhere on there and I've just sat through the last 5 minutes of the freaking Politics Show and the first few seconds of Eastenders and no promo! And nothing on the website either. :(

Me too! I guess its the only way they can get people to tune in to the politics show.

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 05:25 AM
It's on the BBC site, I'm waiting for it to come online too

On the BBC Doctor Who website or the main BBC website? Cos I can't find any such announcement on the BBC Doctor Who website, the trailer didn't air when the announcement said it would and it's not online on the BBC Doctor Who website either. :S

Jonzey
June 29th, 2008, 05:26 AM
Ah!


UPDATE: Well, there was meant to be a trailer on at 1pm. Once we find out what happened to it, we'll put it on the site too! But we're not allowed to show it until it's been on TV. Sorry.

Tracy Jane
June 29th, 2008, 05:27 AM
Well, there was meant to be a trailer on at 1pm. Once we find out what happened to it, we'll put it on the site too! But we're not allowed to show it until it's been on TV. Sorry.

It's from the News section. That's the update.

Jonzey
June 29th, 2008, 05:37 AM
Too late, missy :p

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Okay I'm missing something here cos I'm still not seeing these announcements! Are you talking about the official BBC Doctor Who website? Cos the most recent news story I'm seeing on there is "Series Four final extended to special length". :mad:

Jonzey
June 29th, 2008, 05:43 AM
Okay I'm missing something here cos I'm still not seeing these announcements! Are you talking about the official BBC Doctor Who website? Cos the most recent news story I'm seeing on there is "Series Four final extended to special length". :mad:

That's the one. Click on it and the update is right at the bottom of the article.

Tracy Jane
June 29th, 2008, 05:47 AM
Yepp, LOL. My net is having issues today. Really slow.

Speaking of net issues, is it me, or have they not uploaded last night's confidential to iPlayer?

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 05:48 AM
That's the one. Click on it and the update is right at the bottom of the article.

Ah. Thanks for that. I didn't realise the info was contained within that news item - from the title I thought that was just something about the extended time for next week's ep. Mind you, it's still njot showing the update when I click on that story.

Naonak
June 29th, 2008, 05:49 AM
I know there are these mentions of DT filming the Christmas special, but I'm still genuinely worried. :S And I want to remain worried all week. :D *refuses to look at any pics or spoilers*
You're a stronger person than most of us, then... Well, that, or you have some weird masochistic issues... :p

Yepp, LOL. My net is having issues today. Really slow.

Speaking of net issues, is it me, or have they not uploaded last night's confidential to iPlayer?
No, it's not just you... I watched it on TV though, and I loved RTD talking about how every romantic film would be vastly improved by having the male lead shot down by a Dalek at the end! :lol:

Mr Prophet
June 29th, 2008, 05:53 AM
Yepp, LOL. My net is having issues today. Really slow.

Speaking of net issues, is it me, or have they not uploaded last night's confidential to iPlayer?

It's not just you. It's mentioned in the same article as the new trailer.

Spoilers for Episode 13 trailer:

Short version for those not seeing it: Donna is desperate, the TARDIS is flying down some sort of, dare I say it, thermal exhaust port, and Davros wants to destroy... well, everything.

Reefgirl
June 29th, 2008, 06:11 AM
It's not just you. It's mentioned in the same article as the new trailer.

Spoilers for Episode 13 trailer:

Short version for those not seeing it: Donna is desperate, the TARDIS is flying down some sort of, dare I say it, thermal exhaust port, and Davros wants to destroy... well, everything.

Is the new trailer up then??

I had an epiphany whilst doing the washing up (this happens often with me) who is the Doctor's most loyal companion, who's been there since the beginning? the Tardis, I'm shifting my opinion to something happens to the Tardis and somehow Donna becomes part of the Tardis to keep it going, mad I know but, as I said, strange things happen to me when I'm washing up

Edit: Ok I've seen it now and all I have to say is
The Death Star????

"Use the force Donna" :lol:

Pitry
June 29th, 2008, 06:34 AM
Mmm. Now that trailer wasn't too spoilerym, was it? What's witht he big secrecy?

Reefgirl
June 29th, 2008, 06:47 AM
Err on the side of caution or someone will complain about no spoiler tags and Nanny will come and slap our wrists

Jonzey
June 29th, 2008, 06:49 AM
Yeah the trailer was pretty rubbishy. Didn't give anything away.
And half of it was clips from this episode anyway.

Mr Prophet
June 29th, 2008, 07:00 AM
Edit: Ok I've seen it now and all I have to say is
The Death Star????

"Use the force Donna" :lol:

Like I say; thermal exhaust port. It's a classic for a reason.

Pitry
June 29th, 2008, 07:11 AM
Err on the side of caution or someone will complain about no spoiler tags and Nanny will come and slap our wrists

Oh, I didn't mean the spoiler tags here - I'm all for them. I meant the reason the trailer wasn't attached to the episode itself like it usually is.... ;)

Reefgirl
June 29th, 2008, 07:30 AM
Who knows how the BBC's mind works

melfan
June 29th, 2008, 08:24 AM
Who knows how the BBC's mind works

The BBC themself? :rolleyes: ;)

Reefgirl
June 29th, 2008, 08:43 AM
I'm not so sure :lol:

stargatefan234
June 29th, 2008, 09:03 AM
But I'm still paranoid that this is some form of evil misdirection! :lol:

i don't think David's lying when he says he's in the christmas specials because he'd have to turn down acting jobs because they would think he is other wise engaged.

Irish Eyes
June 29th, 2008, 09:06 AM
Is the new trailer up then??

I had an epiphany whilst doing the washing up (this happens often with me) who is the Doctor's most loyal companion, who's been there since the beginning? the Tardis, I'm shifting my opinion to something happens to the Tardis and somehow Donna becomes part of the Tardis to keep it going, mad I know but, as I said, strange things happen to me when I'm washing up

The trailer didn't really give us anything. Ah well.

I like this theory about Donna and the Tardis. The line I keep thinking about is in last week's episode when the woman asks Donna what will you be, not who.

Has anything been said about CT's future on the show?

queen_hathor
June 29th, 2008, 09:13 AM
It's the Paul O' Grady Show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_O%27Grady_Show
Which struck me as odd with it being on C4 and not BBC!! :lol:

stargatefan234
June 29th, 2008, 09:13 AM
Just watched the trailer on bbc.co.uk, and if davros is fussing with reality, then all bets are off when the docotr regenerates.

God i hope it's not a parrellel world excuse, thats just poor writing

i think that if davros is fussing with reality then perhaps the tenth and eleventh doctors will be the same, ie played by david.

although ive heard rumours about him getting split into to, possibly due to davros fussing with reality.

i like the word fuss, can you tell

Elinor
June 29th, 2008, 09:34 AM
Blimey!! Well that episode was a bit of all right...

...and the ending? Blimey!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-020.gif

valen_sinclair
June 29th, 2008, 10:06 AM
well what can I say that hasn't already been said, although I have noticed a couple of mistakes in various posts.....for one people said the masters drums could be heard whilst donna was sitting down...it wasn't the drums..it was a double heart beat...the drums came when they started to activate the phone call.
Still interested what the drums have too do with it though...could be interesting...

The trailer for next week looks good, davros having a fit and delusions of grandur is always good too see, but one thing I did notice at 17secs into the trailer...is that the earth looking a bit borgified??? and I do remember from the daleks invasion earth (the movie and the hartnell episode) that the daleks were trying to reach the earths core, now that big circular thing in the middle of the earth could be something like that.
I have too also admit that so far donna has been brilliant, i was upset when I heard CT was going to be the new compianon as I can not stand her, but what a turn around, all i hope it is rose that dies, cause she is nothing but a brat with her jealousy...
The series crossovers were brilliant, although I haven't seen the Sarah Jane Adventures as it was blatant cash in for kids, the torchwood parts however were fab...but I swear I read the other day that writing for torchwood series 3 was underway and I can't cope with gwen!

Kady
June 29th, 2008, 10:11 AM
It's the Paul O' Grady Show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_O%27Grady_Show

and he comes from BIRKENHEAD - where i live near! WOOHOO! UP THE BIRKONIANS!!!


Blimey!! Well that episode was a bit of all right...

...and the ending? Blimey!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-020.gif

you've summed it up there, love!!

And i might actually miss the series finale, which i'm p*ssed off about, as i'm going to Old Trafford! *grumbles*

ShadowMaat
June 29th, 2008, 10:33 AM
If Red Eyes had said "There IS something on your back" don't you think Donna would have reacted a bit more forcefully?

As for "most faithful Companion" how about K-9? ;)

Tracy Jane
June 29th, 2008, 10:53 AM
But isn't K9 sealing a black hole with his butt or some such nonsense?

Hulabaloo
June 29th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Okay, my thoughts.

I absolutely love this ep. and the fact that I've missed most of the Davros spoilers made it even better for me, I'd also (luckily) completely forgotten about the Daleks so when the message was sent as Exterminate! as I smiled. Understandably some believe that the Daleks are overused and I can see why, lets hope there are no Daleks over the specials and they could be back in season five.

Crossovers! Yes Torchwood! No Jack left them! Heh, I remember at the point that Jack used his teleportation device I remarked to my mum that there probably would have been a Jack/Ianto kiss, but this was a kid's show. :'( Oh and I hope that Gwen and Ianto actually get to meet the Doctor in person allowing him to vist them more often...perhaps?

Doctor regeneration? No, say it isn't so! Although I have a theory that because the planet is out of sync with everyone else maybe they could go back in time and Jack could be that second faster? Not sure, but I hope it is a false regeneration and not the real eleventh Doctor, unless it's some one I really like. To be honest, I'd love to see how Nesbitt would cope in the role. :D

Overall I cannot wait until next Saturday! OMG LIKE WOW! :D

Edit: On the Davros thing, my mum said that he was a 'bad' Timelord? Can someone confirm? I'm kinda of the newest generation that wasn't born when Davros was on DW. Also the Doctor mentioned that in the Time War he tried to save him before he disappeared into the Nightmare Child, was this part of an episode or just the Time War we haven't seen? Thanks.

RogueSeven
June 29th, 2008, 12:13 PM
wow, simply amazing, when the daleks transmitted the exterminate message i got chills, loads and loads of chills

the acting of everyone was FANTASTIC, couldnt ask for anything more

and i cant wait to see what happens with the doctor regenerating, david tennant is signed for at least the specials next year, is it possible for a timelord to regenerate into the same form?

Pitry
June 29th, 2008, 12:21 PM
The series crossovers were brilliant, although I haven't seen the Sarah Jane Adventures as it was blatant cash in for kids, the torchwood parts however were fab...but I swear I read the other day that writing for torchwood series 3 was underway and I can't cope with gwen!

I'm not a kid and I loved Sarah Jane Adventures and the crossover bits with her. Except for Mr Smith. Eurgh. He's the one thing that I really dislike about SJA.


Okay, my thoughts.

I absolutely love this ep. and the fact that I've missed most of the Davros spoilers made it even better for me, I'd also (luckily) completely forgotten about the Daleks so when the message was sent as Exterminate! as I smiled. Understandably some believe that the Daleks are overused and I can see why, lets hope there are no Daleks over the specials and they could be back in season five.

I actually talked about this with my friend - and they agreed with me. It's not that the Dalek are overused, it's that we're all still traumatised from Dalek in Manhattan. Seriously. They started going like "oh, it was a good Dalek episode for a change!" and then we went through Dalek episodes and there was a general consensus they're all fantastic except for last year. :)


Edit: On the Davros thing, my mum said that he was a 'bad' Timelord? Can someone confirm? I'm kinda of the newest generation that wasn't born when Davros was on DW. Also the Doctor mentioned that in the Time War he tried to save him before he disappeared into the Nightmare Child, was this part of an episode or just the Time War we haven't seen? Thanks.

He's not. He's a scientist from the planet Skaro who went through an accident that left him bitter and insane. And once his war efforts to destroy the Thals on the planet went unappreciated by the other scientists, he set the Daleks loose on everyone - watch Genesis of the Daleks. It's a great episode with Tom Baker as the Doctor and Sarah jane! And poor Harry ;)

ShadowMaat
June 29th, 2008, 12:26 PM
I'm not a kid and I loved Sarah Jane Adventures and the crossover bits with her. Except for Mr Smith. Eurgh. He's the one thing that I really dislike about SJA.
I laughed when Sarah Jane called him on the fanfare thing. LOL! That bit started getting on my nerves. ;)

Pitry
June 29th, 2008, 12:28 PM
I laughed when Sarah Jane called him on the fanfare thing. LOL! That bit started getting on my nerves. ;)

Started? It was my #1 pet peeve from day one!!| :D

ShadowMaat
June 29th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Started? It was my #1 pet peeve from day one!!| :D

It amused me the first time or two, then it got old. Then it got annoying.

Anyway, I wonder if Mr Smith and/or Luke will play a part in the conclusion or if that was a convenient way of getting rid of them for the actiony stuff.

GodAtum
June 29th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Its a shame the Master storyline isn't going to be resolved :(
And I cant remember where the mad dalek came from?

scarimor
June 29th, 2008, 01:13 PM
Its a shame the Master storyline isn't going to be resolved :(
It was. But it could always come back.


And I cant remember where the mad dalek came from?
He was the last Dalek. He escaped into the rift.

Everlasting Death. Heh.

Oh poor Donna: to lose so much to become what she must. Donna - "... the most important woman in all creation."

GodAtum
June 29th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Oh ok. thanks scarimor! But didn't a hand pick up the Master's ring?

Alipeeps
June 29th, 2008, 02:24 PM
As for "most faithful Companion" how about K-9? ;)

Heh. My hubby keeps saying that! :lol:

Willow'sCat
June 29th, 2008, 02:30 PM
But didn't a hand pick up the Master's ring?Yes, but they could hold back continuing that story for years if they want to. ;) We may have to wait until 2010 to see who picked up that ring or until next week! Who knows?!

I watched the trailer... could Donna, being as she is down on her hands and knees, well could she be transforming? Could she be regenerating? It just seems an odd way to have her, I mean she could grab hold of the console or those seats around the console rather then be shown on her hands and knees. Is she near the TARDIS heart's door? Ooh. :D

Naonak
June 29th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Oh ok. thanks scarimor! But didn't a hand pick up the Master's ring?
Yeah, but even if it's not resolved now, there's no reason why it can't be resolved further down the line.

EDIT: Curse you, Willow!!! :p

scarimor
June 29th, 2008, 03:05 PM
That's my worry! Someone reassure me please!!!
The Threefold Man is coming. Do not be afraid! :)

scarimor
June 29th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Btw, I liked the reference to the Mr Copper Foundation.

And that Red Dalek - elevated above primitive emotions... uh. oh.

spargo003
June 29th, 2008, 03:15 PM
[QUOTE=Reefgirl;8494273]Is the new trailer up then??

I had an epiphany whilst doing the washing up (this happens often with me) who is the Doctor's most loyal companion, who's been there since the beginning? the Tardis, I'm shifting my opinion to something happens to the Tardis and somehow Donna becomes part of the Tardis to keep it going, mad I know but, as I said, strange things happen to me when I'm washing up





first off great episode!!
I think you got idea there.. the most loyal companion is TARDIS.. it a living thing!! in the trailer for the next week it look like the TARDIS is in very bad shape!! may be Donna a New tardis or something..

and if you check out the Regeneration the doctor old hand is glowing to!!

dam can`t wait for next week. just a shame i won`t see the final till sunday night!!

docballen
June 29th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Hey-- just wanted to answer some questions I never saw answered adequately... especially in the wake of this fabulously great episode.

1) In the Sixth Doctor episode "The Mysterious Planet" he and Peri land on the primitive planet Ravolox... which we find out is actually Earth. The High Council of the Time Lords ordered the planet moved and renamed because they were trying to conceal the information thgat was stolen by the "SLEEPERS" who had stolen the secrets of the MAtrix. So, the Time Lords may have moved the planet-- this may be the "beginning" of the time period we see the ending of with the Sixth Doctor and Peri.

2) David Tennant can still be in the Christmas Specials AND regenerate... it could be memories or flashbacks... sorry that's the only way I can see it happening.

We are getting Doctor Who on the Sci-Fi Channel-- we are up to "Midnight"-- but next week is Independence Day so they're showing The Twilight Zone instead. (sigh.) We'll get "Midnight" in two weeks.

a6346
June 29th, 2008, 04:49 PM
Rumour for the next Doctor if you want to be surprised don't read.

Biggest rumour is that he regenerates into the Master or the character who played the Master. Fits in line with the sound of the drums and the BBC saying 'Earth's greatest heroes assemble to fight the New Dalek Empire. But a fearsome old enemy waits in the shadows.' The old enemy in the shadows is the Master maybe somehow he shares his body with the doctor both of them fighting for controll and possibly how David is in the Christmas special. Or maybe it is a timelord punishment that if you take the life of another timelord your next regeneration will assume its form so everytime you see yourself you remember your sin.

Don't give me any red for this it is in spoiler tags.

Anyway good episode and poor Valiant.

Most faithful companion doesn't mean the one who loved him most (Rose/Martha). It might mean SJS or even the Tardis as said. All we know is that Captain Jack will survive considering he grew to be thousands/millions of years old as the face of Bo.

I think that key Martha had might phase Earth out of the universe and somewere safe. It would corespond with why they didn't want to use it and how it could protect them. Also it could end up moving the Darleks to that universe with Earth or without it. Maybe 'The stolen Earth' means we steal it from space but who knows.

The Doctor obviosly will survive but maybe not in this form. Chances are Song moon or what ever her name was could have just been refering to his expressions and general way of acting and behaving saying that he acted older but still the same, Kinda like how and old person still moves with the general tone of when they were young must be the same with Timelords considering the personality doesn't seem to change.

Maybe the other habited planets thats were transported can help Earth I would assume that the Daleks seemed to be solely focused on Earth that the others would bond together against a common threat and attack the Dalek fleet.

I think the Darlek were taking humans to get the cells they need from them, remember from bad wolf that they could take 1 cell out of every 1000 and turnn it into a Darlek cell.

Anyway enjoy.

wraith form Replicator
June 29th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Ok you know the doctor can't die again because if you remember the ep's
Silence In the Library and Forest of the Dead the doctor's future wife say's you can't die and implies he can't regenerate again.

Jonzey
June 29th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Rumour for the next Doctor if you want to be surprised don't read.

Biggest rumour is that he regenerates into the Master or the character who played the Master. Fits in line with the sound of the drums and the BBC saying 'Earth's greatest heroes assemble to fight the New Dalek Empire. But a fearsome old enemy waits in the shadows.' The old enemy in the shadows is the Master maybe somehow he shares his body with the doctor both of them fighting for controll and possibly how David is in the Christmas special. Or maybe it is a timelord punishment that if you take the life of another timelord your next regeneration will assume its form so everytime you see yourself you remember your sin.

Don't give me any red for this it is in spoiler tags.

No. No no no no no. Sorry. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Firstly, as seen in this episode, the old enemy is Davros, as given by the fact he, you know, spends most of the episode waiting in the shadows. Plus the Doctor never took the life of another Time Lord.

If he does regenerate, DT could still be in the Christmas specials if it's a multiple doctor story, like 11 and 10. But I reckon it'd be waaaaay too soon for that.

ShadowMaat
June 29th, 2008, 05:21 PM
I kinda like the idea of the spoiler pics for the Christmas special being fakes. ;) But yes, there are all kinds of possibilities in either direction. And we still have to wait six days to find out the answers. *grumble*

Ruined_puzzle
June 29th, 2008, 05:43 PM
^Well, at least we're getting some sort of preview tomorrow. Thank goodness. :D

One small thing I loved in this episode was the look on Donna's face when the Doctor and Rose were running towards each other. Donna totally gets how the Doctor feels about Rose and isn't threatened by it. Just another reason I love Donna. :)

I hope Donna sticks around for awhile, but I'm afraid the omens aren't good.

I know I LOVE Donna so much, maybe as much I love Rose.

Sister Spooky
June 29th, 2008, 11:59 PM
Well, well, well - gripping or what? :D

Harriet Jones, dear love her, "Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister" followed by "We know"
LOL. yeah that's like Captain Jack Sparrow saying "I'm Captain Jack Sparrow" everywhere he goes and everyone he meets is like yeah we know.


I really can't wait to see the conclusion next week, I was sitting on the edge of my seat like a little dweeb. Why wouldn't you? like you gotta love it when the "secret army" cooperated with the whole plan of calling the Doctor, that was a sweet scene.
Ohhh yea I loved that! so Awesome!

but to compensate Rose and Doctor running to each other was so beautiful, but no, the Dalek had to be on the street that intersects the road they were on.
eh, I've been watching to many action movies where something like that would happen so as the Doctor was running to Rose I was like DUDE MOVE YOUR *CENSORED*!!!! there could be a Dalek around the corner! man, my SISTER CAN RUN FASTER THEN YOU! sheesh!


Anyway, amazing first parter, love it, the Daleks are awesome and poor Sarah Jane, using a car? While Rose had what looked like a dimensional transporter, Martha has the Project Indigo and Jack had his wristwatch thing, poor Sarah only has a car. **sigh**
yeah poor SJ *sigh* she would've made it to the TARDIS if only she had a dimensional transporter or a wristwatch thing.

huntress
June 30th, 2008, 12:26 AM
I really, really don't want to be spoiled - at least not more then i already have been by unfortunate glances at "The Sun" etc. Just glances not reading the whole thing but I still caught some and it sounded possible. It didn't make me happy but it would make sense. I really want to enjoy this finale and be knocked out of my shoes by it.....even if it leaves me in a tearful mess.

Col.Foley
June 30th, 2008, 12:53 AM
So, assuming that we do get to see a new regeneration- for however long- do you think he'll be Eleven at some point down the road or is he going to be some "False Doctor" and we'll get a completely new Eleven at some point.

Also, just realized, technically the regeneration could stick and one or more of the specials could center on River. Assuming the specials are non-linear.

Willow, what you said about Donna... Do you mean that Donna is the Osterhagen Key that Martha has? That could be interesting and would theoretically explain a few things, though it'd leave a ton more questions in its wake. And I dunno, "salvation of mankind" tends to make me think of some kind of genesis device that could repopulate the planet or something similar.

BTW, what was with the Master's drumbeat playing when Harriet Jones' signal was being received?I just have to say...........You noticed it too. I watched the episode three...err....four times...and I was like....listening to that scene in particualar each and every time. I was even doing the drumming on my desk to see if they matched. And it did!
Any way. Brilliant episode. Want it to be Saturday too.
Anyone got a spare TARDIS lying around? ;)

AvatarIII
June 30th, 2008, 01:43 AM
omgomgomgomg.... that is all i have to say :D

Celestial
June 30th, 2008, 03:35 AM
OMFG!!!! There were so many things that went on in this episode I was a bit overwhelmed. I'm still relatively new to Dr Who so the little discoveries that many dedicated Dr Who fans knew already were a pleasant surprise for me...like for example that this Davros was the creator of the Daleks. And this Dalek Caan, will need to read up on him unless someone wants to catch me up on who this Dalek is. :D

Loved the crossovers of all the companions. Funniest line is Harriet Jones' being an ex PM and everyone saying "We Know!" LOL!!

As for the regeneration of the Doctor, I did speculate on that and mentioned it it in The Turn Left episode thread, but boy I didn't expect it to eventuate even if it turns out to be a parallel reality/universe.

*Groans* My head hurts just from all the speculations and assumptions, that I think I'll stop now and just wait till this weekend. I really hope that the final episode meets my expectations!

Forseti (a.k.a. Thor's lawyer)
June 30th, 2008, 04:11 AM
The Doctor obviously will survive but maybe not in this form. Chances are Song moon or what ever her name was could have just been referring to his expressions and general way of acting and behaving saying that he acted older but still the same, Kinda like how and old person still moves with the general tone of when they were young must be the same with Timelords considering the personality doesn't seem to change.


You can also interpret "young" as "a previous form". Maybe River Song knew the doctor as one of his later, "older" (possibly final) regenerations. Although I think it still is a bit of a jump.
There is however another reason why DT's Doctor should stick around a little longer. Remember the end of last season's "The Shakespeare Code". Queen Elisabeth (?) immediately recognized him as her biggest enemy, even though they weren't introduced yet (in the episode). TPTB still have to resolve that bit or it will be plot hole. Unless they resolve it off screen in a book or an audio play or something (which would be evil!)
Now, if all the leaked photos from the Christmas episode, press releases and interviews would turn out to be part of an intricate ruse, it would be plain EVIL. It's almost an invitation to break out torches and pitchforks and go give them an early Christmas ;)
Then again, this is Journey's End's cast according to the BBC's site:

The Doctor ...... David Tennant
Donna Noble ...... Catherine Tate
Rose Tyler ...... Billie Piper
Martha Jones ...... Freema Agyeman
Captain Jack Harkness ...... John Barrowman
Sarah Jane Smith ...... Elisabeth Sladen
Mickey Smith ...... Noel Clarke
Jackie Tyler ...... Camille Coduri
Luke Smith ...... Thomas Knight
Gwen Cooper ...... Eve Myles
Ianto Jones ...... Gareth David-Lloyd
Wilfred Mott ...... Bernard Cribbins
Sylvia Noble ...... Jacqueline King
Francine Jones ...... Adjoa Andoh
Davros ...... Julian Bleach
German Woman ...... Valda Aviks
Scared Woman ...... Shobu Kapoor
Chinese Woman ...... Elizabeth Tan
Liberian Man ...... Michael Price
Dalek Voice ...... Nicholas Briggs
Dalek Operators ...... Barney Edwards, Nick Pegg, David Hankinson, Anthony Spargo
Voice of Mr Smith ...... Alexander Armstrong

It's not much to go on, but it doesn't mention an other Doctor. We'll just have to wait and see.

Alipeeps
June 30th, 2008, 04:35 AM
^Well they're never gonna give away a major plot point like a new Doctor in the cast list. :)

AvatarIII
June 30th, 2008, 05:20 AM
i guess rose is the one to bite the bullet

Dalek Caan: Everlasting death for the most faithful companion...

Pitry
June 30th, 2008, 07:17 AM
^Well they're never gonna give away a major plot point like a new Doctor in the cast list. :)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there was at least one time in the apst this ind of list published by the BBC wasn't the whole list, they left someone out. Can't remember when it was.
I'm still hoping they left out John Simm, BTW :)

Mr Prophet
June 30th, 2008, 11:04 AM
i guess rose is the one to bite the bullet

Dalek Caan: Everlasting death for the most faithful companion...

That doesn't make any sense to me (although I'm aware I may be on my own out here). She's not the most faithful. Clingy, yes, but not faithful. Look at this episode; she's all about the entitlement: "Oh, Doctor! Come back for me!" Stuff the rest of the world, apparently.

padr49904
June 30th, 2008, 11:57 AM
Is Sarah Jane the most faithful? I hope it is the clingy one.

ShadowMaat
June 30th, 2008, 12:03 PM
That doesn't make any sense to me (although I'm aware I may be on my own out here). She's not the most faithful. Clingy, yes, but not faithful. Look at this episode; she's all about the entitlement: "Oh, Doctor! Come back for me!" Stuff the rest of the world, apparently.

Mmmm.... Yes, that's very true, but do you think that's how a majority of fans and/or TPTB see it? One person's spoiled little prat is another's true and faithful Companion. ;)

Still, everlasting death is a bit ominous. Might explain the ill-concealed look of horror/pity that River gave Donna. Or it could be someone/something else entirely. I'd like to hope it's Rose just so we never have to see her again (she's been good so far this finale, but she hasn't been around the Doctor), but I have a feeling it isn't going to work out that way.

The TARDIS could be interesting, especially since she )or TARDISRose anyway) was going on about "MY Doctor" in the S1 finale, but we'd better hope that the everlasting part doesn't come true because TARDISes (TARDII?) aren't easy to come by. ;)

Trek_Girl42
June 30th, 2008, 01:48 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there was at least one time in the apst this ind of list published by the BBC wasn't the whole list, they left someone out. Can't remember when it was.
I'm still hoping they left out John Simm, BTW :)
Utopia perhaps. ;)

And I'm hoping they've left out John Simm too. :D

Pitry
June 30th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Utopia perhaps. ;)

And I'm hoping they've left out John Simm too. :D

D'oh! Utopia, of course, Derek Jacobi regenerating into John Simm which no one was supposed to see til episode 12. :)

As for the "most faithful companion"
I'd bet on Rose, not because I think she's the most faithful - I think Martha did more out of her loyality to the Doctor - but because I find it hard to think of a reason she wouldn't go back to travelling with him if she isn't dead. I'm pretty sure Donna is either a Time Lady or is going to ascend...

huntress
June 30th, 2008, 02:28 PM
You know what drives me really crazy? The fact that today is only Monday which means we still have five whole bloody days to wait till the next episode aaaaargh. Waiting for a new Who episode has never been more torturous.

Trek_Girl42
June 30th, 2008, 02:34 PM
You know what drives me really crazy? The fact that today is only Monday which means we still have five whole bloody days to wait till the next episode aaaaargh. Waiting for a new Who episode has never been more torturous.I know! Argh. This is PAINFUL! *dies* *regenerates* *dies again* *gives up*


Dramatic enough? :P

Jonzey
June 30th, 2008, 05:33 PM
With regards to the most faithful companion:
Rose just hung out with him for 2 years and fell in love with him, then came back from another universe apparantly just to see him.

Martha gave up a year of her life travelling the world alone to spread the message.

Donna's not really done anything.

So I'd say Martha, though I hope it's Rose or Donna.

huntress
July 1st, 2008, 12:40 AM
I know! Argh. This is PAINFUL! *dies* *regenerates* *dies again* *gives up*



So, have you checked the mirror? Are you ginger now? ;) :D

Okay by now we have declared every regular companion of Nine and Ten as a possible death candidate LOL. I stick to K-9 LOL

scarimor
July 1st, 2008, 12:41 AM
You know what drives me really crazy? The fact that today is only Monday which means we still have five whole bloody days to wait till the next episode aaaaargh. Waiting for a new Who episode has never been more torturous.
Hee-de-hee-de-hee!

*giggles gleefully*

Mamid
July 1st, 2008, 12:51 AM
Rose - his love interest. more like his obsession. Not gonna die

Martha - his equal in intellect. She was loyal because she spent a year travelling the earth to save him.

Donna - that double heart beat makes me wonder if she's not Rani or Romana in disguise. Too many coincidences surround her. She has to be if not a Gallifreyan, than some sort of cosmic irony. If she is, the two of them need to start making lots of little Gallifreyans. tons of them.

Jack - He spent 100 years waiting for the Doctor to come around. He can't die. Period.

K9 - the BBC sold the rights to K9 last year. WTF were they thinking?

Tardis - maybe this is when Astrid Pith comes back and becomes a Tardis? Still, killing her would be stupid. (Anyone else notice that the rift machine in Torchwood looks like a tardis centre consol thing - you know... the piece that goes up and down?)

that leaves...

Sarah Jane Smith.

Last we see Ms. Smith, she was in the car and was about to be exterminated by the two daleks in front of her. I think she's going to die.

And I think the doctor is going to either split in two or three or regenerate as himself - Tenant. The spoiler pics seem to put him as being there with Rose or at least someone who looks awfully similar...

ShadowMaat
July 1st, 2008, 01:11 AM
*Covers eyes to avoid possible spoilers in that last post*

*burns holes through fingers with glaring*

Anyway, didn't SJA get renewed? (Did it? Seemed to be some confusion last time I looked.) Would make S2 a bit inconvenient. ;) And even if it was canned I don't think that the producers would risk the traumatisation of SJA's core audience by not only killing off the lead character but killing her off on another show.

Mousie
July 1st, 2008, 01:46 AM
This whole situation is still a paralellel universe created around Donna Noble as evidence by that worker at the Shadow Proclomation saying 'there is something on your back' meaning that Donna still has one of those Tricksters Brigade beetles attached to her.

In this alternate reality that was made around Donna, the Doctor regenerates. I wonder who the alternative Doctor will be played by next week?

Sorry if this has been said, but without reading through all the pages, I thought the Shadow lady said "there WAS something on your back"

Pitry
July 1st, 2008, 02:53 AM
Rose - his love interest. more like his obsession. Not gonna die

Or, if Ten really ism regenerationg here, it's a good way to make sure the Rose obsession doesn't continue to a new showrunner and the 11th Doctor.


K9 - the BBC sold the rights to K9 last year. WTF were they thinking?

hey weren't, and they didn't - the rights weer never theirs, but the wrtier who invented K9. It was the same story with whether or not they could use the Daleks on the new series, the Terry Nation estate gave them so much trouble that at at some point RTD donated the Toclafane to be the Dalek badguys. They then renamed the episode "Absence of the Daleks" :) Luckily, things worked out in the end.


Sarah Jane Smith.

Last we see Ms. Smith, she was in the car and was about to be exterminated by the two daleks in front of her. I think she's going to die.

Mmmnope, for the saem reason Ianto and gwen are not going to die - crossover is one thing, killing crossover characters outside of their show is another. No chance in hell, no sane writer would ever do that.
And, besides...
ES is shooting at the moment series 2 of the Sarah Jane adventures... she's the one person we know doesn't die :)


And I think the doctor is going to either split in two or three or regenerate as himself - Tenant. The spoiler pics seem to put him as being there with Rose or at least someone who looks awfully similar...

Next Christmas special spoiler and a reference to the spoiler aboce...
I dunno about nay pictures with Rose, but he definitely is in the Christmas special - which also has David Morrissey whose character was referred to somewhere as "the Other Doctor". I wonder. They coudl pull this regeneration off without lying to the media about DT doing the specials if the regenration goes wrong and the Doctor splits into Doctor 10 and 11, played by Morrissey. They keep them as a duo for the specials and then Tennant leaves and Morrissey becomes the 11th Doctor. And another silly anecdote, Sylvester McCoy was interviewed for DW Confidential from the Cardiff studios wearing smoething that really looks like his Doctor costum. I wonder. Dalek Caan's "three fold man"?

And yes, I'm obsessing about this a lot more than I'm supposed to. It's a great way to avoid doing my papers. :D


Hee-de-hee-de-hee!

*giggles gleefully*

Dalek Caan! Dalek Caan! Heeeelp! :P

scarimor
July 1st, 2008, 03:29 AM
Dalek Caan! Dalek Caan! Heeeelp! :P
Yes! Yes! I am mad, but I see ALL! The Threefold Man is coming! :):):) The Dark Lord is come! :cool:

wise one
July 1st, 2008, 05:15 AM
didnt the master say he saw the daleks and the cruciform and he ran away to the end of the universe

thats what davros is using is it not?

the dark lord - thats the master is it not?

AvatarIII
July 1st, 2008, 05:28 AM
didnt the master say he saw the daleks and the cruciform and he ran away to the end of the universe

thats what davros is using is it not?

the dark lord - thats the master is it not?

no, the master ran away to the far future, davros is at the medusa cascade. the dark lord is the doctor presumably.

the 3 fold man is what i'm confused about it would be nice to get a multi doctor story :D

The_Carpenter
July 1st, 2008, 05:42 AM
didnt the master say he saw the daleks and the cruciform and he ran away to the end of the universe

thats what davros is using is it not?

the dark lord - thats the master is it not?
Davros has the

Crucible... which apparently is a Dalek Death Star type thing

AvatarIII
July 1st, 2008, 05:44 AM
Davros has the

Crucible... which apparently is a Dalek Death Star type thing

is that what the tardis is flying through in the teaser?

The_Carpenter
July 1st, 2008, 05:48 AM
is that what the tardis is flying through in the teaser?
Its certainly likely :)

scarimor
July 1st, 2008, 06:20 AM
the dark lord - thats the master is it not?

The Doctor and The Master are two sides of the same coin :thoranime09:

Reefgirl
July 1st, 2008, 06:42 AM
Multiple Doctor's seems to be the popular theory concerning the 'Three Fold Man' idea, I'm assuming it would be Dr's 8, 9 and 10 or it could be Jack, Born in the Future, after his 'death' escaped into the Past, now lives in the Present plus the fact he's immortal

AvatarIII
July 1st, 2008, 07:35 AM
Multiple Doctor's seems to be the popular theory concerning the 'Three Fold Man' idea, I'm assuming it would be Dr's 8, 9 and 10 or it could be Jack, Born in the Future, after his 'death' escaped into the Past, now lives in the Present plus the fact he's immortal

ah but the three fold man is Coming (present/future tense) jack was already here. one of the 3 parts of the doctor is already here, hence he has started coming, the other 2 parts are yet to come. although i think multi docs would work better as a christmas special. having them in this ep would be a little too much!! unless they stay on until the x-mas ep.

Reefgirl
July 1st, 2008, 09:29 AM
It was one of my 'Hands in the sink' lunacy moments :lol:

AvatarIII
July 1st, 2008, 09:58 AM
It was one of my 'Hands in the sink' lunacy moments :lol:

i sort of saw where you were coming from though :P

Reefgirl
July 1st, 2008, 10:09 AM
That's good to know :D

wise one
July 1st, 2008, 11:39 AM
the doctors severed hand has something to do with it, the camera paid some attention to it for a while

Fudgiepoos
July 1st, 2008, 02:45 PM
the doctors severed hand has something to do with it, the camera paid some attention to it for a while
I noticed that too. I've wondered for a while why he always had it lying around near the console. You'd think he'd put it in a cupboard or something!

ShadowMaat
July 1st, 2008, 04:39 PM
I noticed that too. I've wondered for a while why he always had it lying around near the console. You'd think he'd put it in a cupboard or something!

Would it go in the H bin for Hand or the S bin for severed? Or maybe the M bin for Me. Or even the D bin for Doctor. Maybe he couldn't make up his mind where to put it. ;)

Although if I had a spare bit of me floating around I'd probably want to keep a close eye on it, too. Wouldn't want it to get up to anything tricksy while I had my back turned. Er... not that I'm a tricksy type or anything. *innocents* ;)

Dusk
July 2nd, 2008, 03:13 AM
Harriet spoke of the Mr Copper Foundation... the guy from Voyage of the Damned! That is interesting.

Who else is crossing their fingers and hoping that once this season is over, that we will never see the Daleks again?! I'm wishing like a madman, but know the producers would never allow it.

According to the Doctor Who Commentaries on BBC 7, in original script of The Stolen Earth, The Shadow Proclamation was supposed to consist of many more different species of aliens, including the Slitheen - but the scene was cut due to budget. Such a shame, it would have been amazing!

Pitry
July 2nd, 2008, 03:41 AM
I noticed that too. I've wondered for a while why he always had it lying around near the console. You'd think he'd put it in a cupboard or something!

ASh, but it's very helpful in flying the Tardis - he doesn't seem to be having the "oops, 12 months, not 12 hours" mistakes anymore :)



According to the Doctor Who Commentaries on BBC 7, in original script of The Stolen Earth, The Shadow Proclamation was supposed to consist of many more different species of aliens, including the Slitheen - but the scene was cut due to budget. Such a shame, it would have been amazing!

The SLitheen? or general Rexacoricophallapatoriouses?

wise one
July 2nd, 2008, 04:03 AM
I noticed that too. I've wondered for a while why he always had it lying around near the console. You'd think he'd put it in a cupboard or something!

if he holds his severed up while he is regenerating maybe that could regenerate a whole new body from that hand

Defiant
July 2nd, 2008, 04:32 AM
I noticed that too. I've wondered for a while why he always had it lying around near the console. You'd think he'd put it in a cupboard or something!

They've played with that severed hand a few times now so it's definitely going to get used for something big

Dusk
July 2nd, 2008, 06:41 AM
So what you guys are saying is that the hand could allow the Doctor to rejuvenate but not regenerate? Or rather, he spends one of his regeneration slots but maintains his visage? That would mean he only has two regenerations left!

I read somewhere that there will be a component of the final scene of the next episode that will take everybody by surprise, and also that...

MINOR NON PLOT-RELATED SPOILER

The TARDIS explodes!

Woo hoo, especially for fans of "that" scene in The Mind Robber.

Alipeeps
July 2nd, 2008, 10:41 AM
According to the Doctor Who Commentaries on BBC 7, in original script of The Stolen Earth, The Shadow Proclamation was supposed to consist of many more different species of aliens, including the Slitheen - but the scene was cut due to budget. Such a shame, it would have been amazing!


The SLitheen? or general Rexacoricophallapatoriouses?

^What she said. The Slitheen aren't a race, they're a family. A criminal family - not one I would think the Shadow Proclamation would associate with.

Dinoflo
July 2nd, 2008, 11:10 AM
My theory, the Osterhagen key is obviously some weapon to be used to defend the earth if the doctor is unavailable. If the doctor isn't there then the next best thing is another time lord. I think that the masters ring somehow contained the masters DNA or his consciousness, and whoever picked it up in LotTLs, UnIT have it now. I think that some UnIT base (possibly the 'vault' [mentioned in the radio times 11 weeks ago]) has a master clone all ready, and the Osterhagen key activates it or downloads his consciousness into it. I know that this is a long shot, but the reactions of all of the characters to Osterhagen could fit this, and the rumor that John Simm might be back make it at least plausible.

hydr0san
July 2nd, 2008, 11:15 AM
My theory, the Osterhaggen key is obviously some weapon to be used to defend the earth if the doctor is unavailable. If the doctor isn't there then the next best thing is another time lord. I think that the masters ring somehow contained the masters DNA or his consciousness, and whoever picked it up in LotTLs, UnIT have it now. I think that some UnIT base (possibly the 'vault' [mentioned in the radio times 11 weeks ago]) has a master clone all ready, and the Osterhaggen key activates it or downloads his consciousness into it. I know that this is a long shot, but the reactions of all of the characters to Osterhaggen could fit this, and the rumor that John Simm might be back make it at least plausible.

OSTERHAGEN

EARTHS GONE

It's a anagram.

Jonzey
July 2nd, 2008, 11:38 AM
OSTERHAGEN

EARTHS GONE

It's a anagram.

It's also an anagram of
HEARTS GONE
A THREE SONG
ENRAGE SHOT
RANEE GHOST (maybe they can't spell Rani properly?)
ERASE THONG (God I hope so)
AGE HORNETS (getting the bees back to fight the Daleks)
GATHERS ONE
AGENT HORSE
A GREEN SHOT

Think about it.

Dinoflo
July 2nd, 2008, 11:48 AM
Yeah, but I reckon its just a name which has no bearing on the key's purpose, like ASTRID = TARDIS.

Unless you were just correcting my spelling?

ShadowMaat
July 2nd, 2008, 12:53 PM
AGENT HORSE
OMG! A crossover with Mr Ed??!! And he's a TIME AGENT!! It all makes sense now... http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh2.gif

Sealurk
July 2nd, 2008, 01:16 PM
That was a fantastic episode, but I can't help feeling we're going to see a big ol' reset of some description.

Anyway, the two aspects that have kept rolling around inside my skull are the Osterhagen Key and Dalek Caan's prophecy. Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:


After Last of the Time Lords, UNIT appropriated the Archangel Network. Martha informed them of what it did, and so they kept it in reserve, as a last resort weapon. I think the Key activates its, but uses its power to use the minds of the entire human race as a massive psychic weapon...with consequences (like eradicating all memory of the important events, like Grand Theft Planet, Dalek invasion etc, a nice convenient reset...again).
UNIT has much experience of the Doctor and his Tardis - the Key has some effect on the Tardis, maybe even a self-destruct (I'd imagine a Tardis destroying itself would be a helluva bang.
Osterhagen is an anagram of Earths Gone, as has been mentioned. What if its not a suicidal doomsday device that annihilates the planet, but a one-shot, untested planetwide teleport / hyperspace shunt / transmat / temporal shift? I.e. Earths gone...from its last position.
Number 2 really fits with the other thing that got me, Caan's prophecy about everlasting death for the most faithful companion. I reckon its the Tardis, which sacrifices itself (and Donna?) to confine the Daleks forever in a time-loop. Of course, the Doctor will somehow acquire a new Tardis if that happens.

Mr Prophet
July 2nd, 2008, 02:05 PM
Number 2 really fits with the other thing that got me, Caan's prophecy about everlasting death for the most faithful companion. I reckon its the Tardis, which sacrifices itself (and Donna?) to confine the Daleks forever in a time-loop. Of course, the Doctor will somehow acquire a new Tardis if that happens.

Gah! Bite your tongue! While I can see that the TARDIS could be seen as the most faithful companion, for that very reason the idea of the Doctor getting a new one is as outrageous as continuing the series with some other Time Lord travelling in the original TARDIS.

Not saying they won't do it, just that I will have to punch some fool if it happens.

Reefgirl
July 2nd, 2008, 02:16 PM
It's also an anagram of
HEARTS GONE
A THREE SONG
ENRAGE SHOT
RANEE GHOST (maybe they can't spell Rani properly?)
ERASE THONG (God I hope so)
AGE HORNETS (getting the bees back to fight the Daleks)
GATHERS ONE
AGENT HORSE
A GREEN SHOT

Think about it.

Also it's NASTY GEEK HERO, if you add Key to Osterhagen

Atlantean2005
July 2nd, 2008, 02:24 PM
If it's okay for me to throw my crazy theory in, I just want to say that I've read all the pages and if I say something that has already been stated or shot down, etc... please forgive me. So here we go:

If you notice that when someone is shot by a Dalek, their whole body lights up. My theory is that the doctor is maybe gonna do a partial regeneration (even though he's doing the YMCA fireworks display) because when he got shot, only his arm/shoulder lit up.

Sounds stupid I know, but this is just my theory among the many on here. Please don't hate me!

Sealurk
July 2nd, 2008, 02:24 PM
I know, I know, but she's old, she's got to go some time, and what an ending that would be, annihilating the Daleks! And he'd get a new one...maybe the one Jack's growing back at the Hub (allegedly).

Besides, I'd bet its the kind of thing RTD would do, especially since he's leaving the show:

"Ha! Lets see Steve Moffat write Who without a Tardis! And while I'm at it, I'll make a very popular Doctor regenerate...but then pull some ridiculous contrived stunt that hits the cosmic reset button, just like the last season finale!"

Anyway...can I stop biting my tongue now? It's beginning to bleed and these salt and vinegar crisps are suddenly feeling like a bad idea...

wise one
July 2nd, 2008, 02:25 PM
osterhagen key must have a hidden adgenda otherwise they would of called it danger key or something

they said the key is to save the human race yet the way ppl go on about it in that episode suggest something bad will come out of it

Willow'sCat
July 2nd, 2008, 03:05 PM
If it's okay for me to throw my crazy theory in, I just want to say that I've read all the pages and if I say something that has already been stated or shot down, etc... please forgive me. So here we go:

If you notice that when someone is shot by a Dalek, their whole body lights up. My theory is that the doctor is maybe gonna do a partial regeneration (even though he's doing the YMCA fireworks display) because when he got shot, only his arm/shoulder lit up.

Sounds stupid I know, but this is just my theory among the many on here. Please don't hate me!You mean how he
regenerated only his hand? I can see that happening, given it was as far as I know an RTD invention for the character. I can't remember any other Doctors having that ability or any other Time Lord... then again there is a lot of stuff in Who you can so easily miss. :P Also that hand does seem to be important or they wouldn't have it sitting there taking up space for no apparent reason.

I don't mind the idea of a participial regeneration if we get to keep the 10th Doctor. Although he did seem to be glowing out of all his body :P not just one side.

Are we really only half way through this bloody week!!! :(:P

Naonak
July 2nd, 2008, 03:14 PM
You mean how he
regenerated only his hand? I can see that happening, given it was as far as I know an RTD invention for the character. I can't remember any other Doctors having that ability or any other Time Lord... then again there is a lot of stuff in Who you can so easily miss. :P
I don't think any other Doctor had an appendage chopped off before, though, either... ;)

Pitry
July 2nd, 2008, 03:30 PM
Number 2 really fits with the other thing that got me, Caan's prophecy about everlasting death for the most faithful companion. I reckon its the Tardis, which sacrifices itself (and Donna?) to confine the Daleks forever in a time-loop. Of course, the Doctor will somehow acquire a new Tardis if that happens.

I thought about it... and I don't like it. As in really don't like it. As in "describing the Tardis as the Doctor's most faithful companion actually makes loads and loads of sense."
But I don't think they would do it cos that would affectively get the Doctor stuck in one time and place... the Tardis has to go on. And it's the last Tardis in the universe, they only grow on Gallifrey. So it can't be the Tardis.
Can't.
Just can't.
Nonononono.

*puts Tardis' death in the same denial list as the regeneration that did not exist at the end of The Stolen Earth*

Sealurk
July 2nd, 2008, 03:34 PM
If a TARDIS is a living thing, and it is a Time Lord creation, and a TARDIS has a strong, symbiotic bond with its Time Lord...can a TARDIS regenerate?

*backs away slowly to observe fireworks and avoid being punched in the face if the TARDIS does indeed die...*

ShadowMaat
July 2nd, 2008, 04:05 PM
I thought the Osterhagen Key was a last resort if humanity was in mortal peril and the Doctor wasn't around? Bit silly to invent a self-destruct button for a TARDIS that won't be there. ;)

Jack seemed very adamant that the Key not be used. Of course, he said the same about the teleport harness thingy (Indigo), but the Key, I think, is several levels up the OMGDONTDOIT ladder. Is it a MAD-type weapon meant to wipe out whoever's wiping us out, or is it more of a Genesis thing and meant to reboot humanity?

Jonzey
July 2nd, 2008, 05:36 PM
ANyone else think the Shadow Proclamation is going to take over the role the Time Lords had in the old series? Like as an occasional ally/adversary for the Doctor. The scene when he runs away after being told he is going to lead the army was a lot like when the 5th Doctor ran after being named President of Gallifrey in the Five Doctors.

Dusk
July 2nd, 2008, 09:44 PM
Let's not forget "The Shadow Proclamation" can be rearranged to say "Doctor Who has a time plan".

Reefgirl
July 3rd, 2008, 12:10 AM
If a TARDIS is a living thing, and it is a Time Lord creation, and a TARDIS has a strong, symbiotic bond with its Time Lord...can a TARDIS regenerate?

*backs away slowly to observe fireworks and avoid being punched in the face if the TARDIS does indeed die...*
That's an interesting theory


I thought the Osterhagen Key was a last resort if humanity was in mortal peril and the Doctor wasn't around? Bit silly to invent a self-destruct button for a TARDIS that won't be there. ;)

Jack seemed very adamant that the Key not be used. Of course, he said the same about the teleport harness thingy (Indigo), but the Key, I think, is several levels up the OMGDONTDOIT ladder. Is it a MAD-type weapon meant to wipe out whoever's wiping us out, or is it more of a Genesis thing and meant to reboot humanity?

Another interesting theory

Scoobing
July 3rd, 2008, 12:13 AM
Did anyone else think that when The Doctor said to Davros something along the lines of

"After everything we've seen, after everything we've been through, I only have one thing to say to you....BYEEE!!"

was very similar to the way the Master spoke in 'Utopia' ("Tell you my plans...I don't think!

I don't think it means anything but noticed the similarity in the style of delivery, was pretty funny too... :)

I think this ep qualifies as greatest cliffhanger of the new who, although maybe it will be topped by next week.

Have to say as a fan of teaser trailers, the trailer for this episode, with the quick flashes of all the companions was very good. Maybe it was just that fact that so many well known faces were in it, but I thought it was well put together and made an exciting preview...

Mr Prophet
July 3rd, 2008, 08:14 AM
osterhagen key must have a hidden adgenda otherwise they would of called it danger key or something

they said the key is to save the human race yet the way ppl go on about it in that episode suggest something bad will come out of it

Did anyone actually say that it was to save the human race? All I recall them saying is: "I can't take it" and "Don't ever use it."

wise one
July 3rd, 2008, 08:52 AM
Did anyone actually say that it was to save the human race? All I recall them saying is: "I can't take it" and "Don't ever use it."

the unit officer who gave it to her said something like that before he she put on project indigo and the daleks came knocking

AvatarIII
July 3rd, 2008, 10:26 AM
harriet ordered jack to forget about it, therefore it's very important :D

Trek_Girl42
July 3rd, 2008, 11:41 AM
Let's not forget "The Shadow Proclamation" can be rearranged to say "Doctor Who has a time plan".:lol: Who the frak sits down and figures all these out..... :P

huntress
July 3rd, 2008, 01:18 PM
:lol: Who the frak sits down and figures all these out..... :P

People with waaaaay too much time on their hands. I have also read somewhere that the Osterhagan Key can be rearranged into the anagram "Earths Gone" and the translation is supposed to be "burning man". I couldn't find the latter and I don't know if the fans are going a bit too far here but still interesting.

Dusk
July 3rd, 2008, 09:02 PM
There's probably some website that lets you put in letters and then comes up with variations.

ShadowMaat
July 3rd, 2008, 09:23 PM
There's probably some website that lets you put in letters and then comes up with variations.

Quite a few of them, yup. But they can generate tons of results depending on your parameters (and the number of letters) and I for one get bored fast trying to wade through it all. ;) Others, obviously, don't. More power to 'em. lol

Trek_Girl42
July 3rd, 2008, 10:19 PM
Quite a few of them, yup. But they can generate tons of results depending on your parameters (and the number of letters) and I for one get bored fast trying to wade through it all. ;) Others, obviously, don't. More power to 'em. lolGot a link to a good one? :)

Reefgirl
July 3rd, 2008, 11:54 PM
I used this one http://www.crosswordtools.com/anagram-generator/

Guest750
July 4th, 2008, 12:41 AM
osterhagen = Earnest hog

Dusk
July 4th, 2008, 04:44 AM
Osterhagen Key = Nasty Geek Hero

Haha!! Funniest thing I've seen all day.

AvatarIII
July 4th, 2008, 05:55 AM
http://www.ssynth.co.uk/~gay/cgi-bin/nph-an?line=osterhagen+key&words=no+limit&dict=engp&doai=on

Mamid
July 4th, 2008, 08:58 AM
well.. it looks like
from one of the spoiler sites that yes, Tenant stays as the Doctor. But other than that, I can't really figure out what happens to the companions.

mazzmatazz
July 4th, 2008, 12:37 PM
I am convinced that

Ten is going to split in two. As we have all seen, Caan called him the 'threefold man'. Well. Jenny is made from his DNA, and if he splits during regeneration, we've got three Gallifreyans running around the universe with the same DNA.

I'm not sure on the TARDIS dying. I was pondering about that, but apparently the TARDIS coral that Jack is growing is gonna take another 470 years before it can begin to be used.

Sealurk
July 4th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Cool, Who goes Farscape (though not for half a season, probably)! Good theory on the threefold thing too (I wondered where that would come in), although if you're right, I doubt we'll see much of one of them if Rose has anything to say about it.

valen_sinclair
July 5th, 2008, 01:24 AM
well i know who doesn't die...MAJOR SPOILER ALERT BELOW

sarah jane smith, because I was watching blue peter (BY ACCIDENT) and they had shots from Journeys End making off and the scene they showed being shoot at the time had micky, jackie and sarah jane being led off by the daleks..
was a bit cross cause I really wanted to avoid spoilers, the BBC should have had more thought when they made this documentry!!!!!

Alipeeps
July 5th, 2008, 09:43 AM
well i know who doesn't die...MAJOR SPOILER ALERT BELOW

sarah jane smith, because I was watching blue peter (BY ACCIDENT) and they had shots from Journeys End making off and the scene they showed being shoot at the time had micky, jackie and sarah jane being led off by the daleks..
was a bit cross cause I really wanted to avoid spoilers, the BBC should have had more thought when they made this documentry!!!!!

It's a foregone conclusion that she doesn't die as the next series of her spin-off show is already in production.

Hulabaloo
July 5th, 2008, 10:22 AM
I am convinced that

Ten is going to split in two. As we have all seen, Caan called him the 'threefold man'. Well. Jenny is made from his DNA, and if he splits during regeneration, we've got three Gallifreyans running around the universe with the same DNA.

I'm not sure on the TARDIS dying. I was pondering about that, but apparently the TARDIS coral that Jack is growing is gonna take another 470 years before it can begin to be used.


Yea but the Doctor can just travel in time to... ah, right.
It sucks not having a TARDIS. :P

nx01a
July 8th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Wow.
This is why I avoid spoilers.
I was well and truly blown away by this episode by the time the opening credits rolled.

The Good:
>I wanted to see an event in Who that would have ripples through Sarah Jane and Torchwood, but never did I imagine that Torchwood and Sarah Jane would come to Who! I'm not a Sarah Jane watcher, but the characterization of the Torchwood team was right on. Which makes sense since RTD's the warped mind Ianto sprung from.:P
>Speaking of whom... Ianto Jones. Martha Jones. Harriet Jones... I wonder if the Doctor'll see that coincidence?
>I loved the crammed credits, chock full of companion goodness.
>"So-bro-dojo-mo-ho...etc."
>The scene with the TARDIS slowly drifting into the Medusa Cascade... Simply beautiful.
>Nice to see all the plot threads and tidbits finally come together. The bees and their alien trail, the lost planets and moons, the ShadowProc, the effects of that thing on Donna's back stretching into the past and the future.
>Speaking of the ShadowProc, what were those albino aliens running things?
>Donna. Poor Donna. My theory on Donna... She's Romana. I mean, the first place the Doctor was going to take her was Rome.:P
Ok, how do I arrive at that? Well... Donna's a 'temp', not a 'real' employee, just filling in when necessary. She's also experienced two temporary realities so far. Perhaps she's not a 'real' person, but a temporary one specially created to assist the Doctor in general and against Davros in particular. If the leader of the Daleks escaped the time war, it follows that the leader of the Time Lords would find a way, too, if not via the same event somehow. One intricately carved watch later, she's herself again.;) Of course, she and Davros have to go back into and die in the time war to stop the walls of reality from crumbling... But whether she's Romana or not, I definitely get the feeling she's invented, not 'real', and her stint is coming to an end.
>The walls of reality are crumbling because Davros escaped the time war? Or because of this infernal engine he's creating?
>Harriet Jones got Daleks to groan and roll their eye stalks.:P I'm glad she stuck to her guns and didn't, like almost everyone else, believe that the Doctor was always right and would always save us. I agree with her decision to destroy the Sycorax ship, and I'm glad she's sensible enough to realize the Doctor's a far more powerful ally than an enemy, and knew that, in some cases, he's really the only hope for humanity.
>Sarah Jane. Of all of the companions, she's the one who has the most history with the Daleks and Davros. Not even Capn Jack can fully appreciate it. Seeing her face when their 'message for the people of Earth' came through and when Davros was revealed really struck home how horrible these things are. Wonderful acting.
>This Oster-Haagen key... What? It's a kitchen appliance that makes ice cream? :P
>"Exterminate UNIT!" "Annihilate Torchwood!" I was seriously waiting for "Exterminate Sarah Jane!":P
>The 'lovers running through a field towards each other' turning into 'inter-species almost-lovers running through a post-apocalyptic wasteland at midnight, interrupted by evil cybernetic organism almost killing one of them'. I was rooting for a Dalek to show up! Thanks, RTD.
>The Doctor only getting half exterminated. We only saw one side of his skeleton. Nice turn, turn, pirouette, Doctor.;)
>RTD's writing. I don't know how it happened, but from 'Midnight' to now... BRILLIANT!!! I don't know if he's taking some lessons from Moffat or if he's trying to rival Moffat's 'Library' 2 parter for a BAFTA award:P, but he's doing a wonderful job. Action and emotion in great proportions. I'm loving it.
>I originally wanted Rose to come back and interact with everyone except the Doctor, highlighting the doomed nature of their... 'love', but seeing them together did make me get a little happy.
>Davros and his children vs the Doctor and his companions.
>"We're going out fighting, like Owen, like Tosh."
>"I thought he'd be older." "He's not that young."
>"I got it from a soldier in a bar." "When was that?" "Strictly business."
>"Might I say, looking good, ma'am." "Really? Oh!"
>"Find me, Doctor. Find me." I don't care what anyone says, it was Rose's phone that got through to the Doctor.:D

The Bad:
>Martha and her mother. I'm a bit sick of it now.
>Doesn't the TARDIS have, oh, I don't know, temporal sensors? 1 second is enough to fool it?
>The Rift. I always thought the Rift was a fixed point in space/time that just happened to pass through Cardiff. When the Earth moved, the Rift moved with it? Er...
>Guns can't hurt Daleks? What about "Aim for the eye stalks!"? And why aren't all the other alien devices in Torchwood being carted out to help? Or, at least, some heavy explosives?
>The scene with the TARDIS wobbling as it came into phase with the planets. It just looked hokey.
>Rose being so sad at the regeneration. It's happened before. He's still the same person he was the first time. It's sad, but at least he's not dead. Or, perhaps, her "You can't!" meant that he literally can't regenerate. Something to do with the crumbling walls of reality or the out-of-phase pocket?
>Jack's gun and Jack's teleport. Hello!!!!! Honestly, with the invasions we're having twice-yearly now, shouldn't mass-producing such technology be primary among the aims of UNIT or Torchwood? Sure, the average person from the 21st C probably wouldn't know how to reverse engineer a laptop for people in the middle ages to use, but Jack's not the average person from the 51st C. I really don't think Jack's doing enough.
>The Valiant. NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
>Mr. Smith? Dialling all the phones on Earth at once? Was that really necessary? I mean, I know they need to include everyone meaningfully, but a single phone dialing a # and powered by the rift wouldn't be enough? So much for any non-Doctor resistance fighters trying to use their phones for anything meaningful...

What I'm Hoping For:
>Christopher Eccleston or Paul McGann. A reverse regeneration.:P
>A resolution that isn't completely dumb, like the telepathic satellite network. Bad Wolf worked. 'Floating Doctor'... not so much. Someone needs to die this time. Sorry, Donna.
>Rose back in her reality. I don't want her to die.

The Verdict:
I was totally blown away. This is the kind of episode an entire series leads up to, years of build up, years of hints and info... Sigh. It made me feel good. I hope the season finale will be as good as I want it to be. Don't disappoint me, RTD.

RDAfan61
July 15th, 2008, 10:24 AM
I agree with a lot of the things said here and having seen the end already it's neat to see what people were speculating about what would actually happen and to see how close some were. :D

Anyway, I have a question that doesn't seem to have been discussed at all. I was confused about what exactly happened when they were in the Medusa Cascade? The Doctor seems to have given up doing anything, why exactly? When they get the phone call then he's all back in action. I am sure I have missed something but not sure what it was. I'm assuming it has something to do with the Cascade being slightly out of phase?

Also, wonder if the Doctor is now in trouble with the Shadow Proclamation since he ran off like that? Might play in another episode. :)

nx01a
July 15th, 2008, 11:05 AM
He'd followed the trail of the alien bees to the end [can't believe I just said that] and found nothing in the Cascade. He had no other options, no other trails to follow. The 1 second phasing that kept the planets masked from the TARDIS sensors was quite effective.

I'd love to know who those albino aliens in the Shadow Proc were. They had some kind of time sensitivity, at least the one who talked to Donna...

RDAfan61
July 15th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Ah thanks nx that makes a bit more sense now.

Yes, I'd like to know more about them as well. We may as they tend to revisit things in this show which is good.

gateship777
July 16th, 2008, 08:53 AM
Ah thanks nx that makes a bit more sense now.

Yes, I'd like to know more about them as well. We may as they tend to revisit things in this show which is good.

i think fact they showed the shadow proclomation and everything means we be there in next season or the specials. the fact he pissed off the leader and has practically got the space police after him means it be fun season :P

Madeleine
July 18th, 2008, 11:39 AM
I still don't get why they were called "the Shadow Proclamation". I always imagined that a proclamation was a type of announcement or a decree: words, not actual people or organisations.

Yes, I know it's a silly thing to care about, but coming from the show who bucked a universal trend to use the word 'decimate' correctly, it irks me.

Sealurk
July 18th, 2008, 11:47 AM
Maybe Shadow Proclamation is essentially slang, i.e. it/they is/are named after the perhaps famous declaration that created...it. I mean, maybe, in good sci-fi tradition, the SP's real name is "too long and complex for mere human minds", so everyone's taken to calling it the Shadow Proclamation as a kind of shorthand.

Or maybe it's more like the Geneva Convention.

Or, from answers.com:
n.

The act of proclaiming or the condition of being proclaimed.
Something proclaimed, especially an official public announcement.
Could that work?

Madeleine
July 18th, 2008, 11:52 AM
It'll have to, it's the best explanation I've seen anywhere - not that I've looked terribly hard, after all it's a bit pedantic to be fussing over a mere word.

(Even though the Doctor did set a decent standard in the Sontaran episode by correcting a person's grammar.)

Mr Prophet
July 18th, 2008, 12:18 PM
I sort of assumed that either:

a) Shadow Proclamation is a shorthand for 'The August and Universal Enforcement Authority Under the Terms and Auspices of the Shadow Proclamation', or some such, or
b) that the Shadow Proclamation is such a massive and complex piece of intergalactic legislation that it is embodied in the creepy albino women, rather than merely inscribed on paper. If they show up again they could then have titles like Senior Preamble and operate in Sections, Subsections, Articles and Paragraphs.

Given that I can't see Rusty turning down the opportunity to use the former in full, I lean towards the latter.

Madeleine
July 18th, 2008, 12:19 PM
Okay that's pretty cool.

Pitry
July 18th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Maybe it works like the opposite of the Geneva Convention...

but yeah, it's been nagging me as well, as I've always thought hte Shadiw Proclamation would be a piece of paper with words and articles in it. Like #15...

ShadowMaat
July 18th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Dumb question, but why is it proCLAMation when you proCLAIM something?

Pitry
July 19th, 2008, 01:00 AM
Huh.

*ponders this for a moment*

I'd go for either the great vowel shift (although I don't recall it ever changing orthography, so that's a bit unlikely...) or some sort of weird umlaut (vowel change between different forms of the same stem, derived from another vowel's influence). It probably is an umlaut because of the "ation" ending... methinks.

*ponders some more*

Mr Prophet
July 19th, 2008, 01:16 AM
Dumb question, but why is it proCLAMation when you proCLAIM something?

Because pro-clay-may-shun just make it sound like you're committed to the support of future Wallace and Gromitt films.

nx01a
July 19th, 2008, 09:13 AM
English is the worst language in the world, and not just for non-native speakers.
I mean, absorbing energy is called 'absorPtion'. ;)
Best to accept it and leave it alone.

Alipeeps
July 20th, 2008, 02:02 PM
English is the worst language in the world, and not just for non-native speakers.
I mean, absorbing energy is called 'absorPtion'. ;)
Best to accept it and leave it alone.

Ah but that's probably a holdover from the days of mutation - and most languages had mutation at one time or another. Most of em have grown out of it... with the notable exception of Welsh! :lol:

wwlh
July 22nd, 2008, 04:14 PM
Everlasting Death for the most faithful Companion: If Dalek Kahn is seeing the future and speaking only the truth...then maybe he sees the Doctor being triumphant...which would once again seal Rose away forever...and she was the one who called it the story of her Death or something like that???

nx01a
July 22nd, 2008, 04:49 PM
You're right, she did say her last story was the story of 'how she died'. Interesting theory. Enjoy the finale.:D

MasySyma
July 25th, 2008, 08:03 PM
This episode was not my favorite. The bad, the really bad, and the awful outweighed the good, so I'll likely skip the rewatch until the DVD comes out.

The Good:
I liked seeing all of the companions again, and I was surprised to realize that I had missed the Torchwood crew a bit.

Donna as always was fantastic.

The Bad:
Rose: I don't know what it is. I was resigned to her return, but I had decided to look forward to it. All she did was walk around, look wooden, and whine. I particularly had problems during the regeneration moments at the end. Donna was screaming as expected during this scene, but Rose's melodrama annoyed me. She has been here before, and while the Doctor may change into someone who doesn't love her, it would be preferable to the alternative, a dead Doctor. She is so selfish. I wanted her chucked through an airlock right about then. We still have no idea why she is here, what she went through to get here, and how she will be useful. I also wasn't that impressed by her jealousy of the other companions, particularly Martha. She is aware that he travels with women. This isn't new. She doesn't seem to learn.

The Really Bad:
Who is Dalek Caan again? Didn't he die in the Daleks in Manhattan fiasco? We just moved, and my DVDs are packed, so I can't answer this myself. I'm also suffering from Dalek overkill. Mainly, I wish they would say "Exterminate" and then just do it already. The constant repetition of "we will kill you" gets old quick, even if I don't want Sarah Jane dead. One death threat is enough.

The companions (except Rose): All of the companions were wonderful, but they took up entirely too much of the episode. We saw the Doctor and Donna for all of ten minutes, and we also had to suffer through odd moments of explaining Luke, why Martha was in New York, etc. The Ianto/Jack look was cute as were many of the inside jokes, but I wish that we didn't have to have companions or the Doctor sometimes.

The Awful:
Dalek Caan. I realize that he lost his mind, but he had my family laughing at the screen and not in a good way. His giggly comments and tentacle waving just made me expect him to burst into song. Even now, I can picture him singing "I Feel Pretty" faster than I can see him serving any useful purpose, despite the spoilers I've read.

It didn't help that SciFi choose to interrupt the episode at horrible times with really inappropriate commercials. Right after the scenes with Sarah Jane and Jack holding their loved ones as they realize what is to come, SciFi ran a musical trailer of Eureka with everyone dancing.

I'll watch it again on DVD, and hopefully, I'll like it better then. Right now, I found it slow and annoying. A 4/10.

Pitry
July 26th, 2008, 02:02 AM
Awww, but the entire point was to laugh at Dalek Caan! :) He was soooooo sweet! I loved him. "I fleeeeeeeeeeeeeeew" :D

As for how he survived Evolution of the Daleks, he does an emergency temporal shift at the end of that episode, just like the Cult of Skaro did at the end of Doomsday.

Re: Rose's "this is the story of how I died", I believe their excuse was that she was on the lsit of the dead?:) But indeed, that one was a cheat.
*whistles*

SGalisa
July 26th, 2008, 11:22 AM
The Really Bad:
Who is Dalek Caan again? Didn't he die in the Daleks in Manhattan fiasco? We just moved, and my DVDs are packed, so I can't answer this myself. I'm also suffering from Dalek overkill. Mainly, I wish they would say "Exterminate" and then just do it already. The constant repetition of "we will kill you" gets old quick, even if I don't want Sarah Jane dead. One death threat is enough.
...
The Awful:
Dalek Caan. I realize that he lost his mind, but he had my family laughing at the screen and not in a good way. His giggly comments and tentacle waving just made me expect him to burst into song. Even now, I can picture him singing "I Feel Pretty" faster than I can see him serving any useful purpose, despite the spoilers I've read.

It didn't help that SciFi choose to interrupt the episode at horrible times with really inappropriate commercials. Right after the scenes with Sarah Jane and Jack holding their loved ones as they realize what is to come, SciFi ran a musical trailer of Eureka with everyone dancing.

yep, commercials are notorious for spoiling moods and disrupting thoughts of some programs.. :p


okay, I have to state the amount of "Exterminate" mantras that went forth in this "The Stolen Earth" (# 3012/412) episode were a bit on the excessive side.. but it's probably like a song jingle to the Daleks, whenever they go forth into *kill* mode.

Viewers who don't know Dalek history, should be forewarned that the Daleks are deranged creatures, which Davros created in a science lab (see "Genesis of the Daleks" Tom Baker era episode). Davros was quite deranged himself when the Doctor first met up with him. Mostly everyone knew from that ep forward, that the Daleks were mutations who could think to some degrees, but were gross distortions of humanity.

The phrase "Exterminate!!" has been their stapled mantra ever since day one, and to repeat it in excess is mostly all they know when they go on their crazed (psycho) rampages. They are more or less broken records because they have broken spirits and (broken / mutated) DNA. It fits with their character. I used to see them as having some sort of Hitler obedience mentality with either Davros or their *supreme* emporer (Dalek) as their ultimate leader.

Daleks were born (or created) to conquer (the supremest mentality race). The question is as someone previous mentioned somewhere on these forums, is what will they do once they've annihilated the entire universe, and only have themselves left to live with. It's probably one of the most popular age-old questions about history in general for all populations, wherever they are in the universe.

As for Daleks in general, their true physical appearance looks like a disfigured octopus or squids that were in some serious accident. Pretty hideous, especially when they are able to survive outside of a seawater environment and have universal translaters for the entire world to understand their thoughts, etc. ;)


I've never liked Davros, but storywise for the DW series, Davros has always been a challenging adversary for the Doctor over many, many seasons. Davros is a psychopathic maniac (who was in a tragic accident and rebuilt into that chair by some misguided science / medical people, who became totally devoted to him). Davros does love his experimental Dalek creations, and he has been considered upon occasion to be a wicked but "brilliant scientist" by the Doctor. And I have to agree that this particular characterization of Davros was just as much menacing as the original Davros (played by Michael Wisher), who was super creepy. Of course, it may have been the cave of his rejects that made that whole "Genesis of the Daleks" episode even creepier. brrrrrrr.

The metalic hand on the Davros in this eppy, made him just as creepy as the original. Plus, his voice was fairly close to the original. And Sarah Jane was with the Doctor when he first met Davros, so the encounter in "The Stolen Earth" eppy was very personal to her, as well. :(

I also kind of liked the squeamish reaction memory (continuity of) how Captain Jack remembered the fate he experienced with the Daleks back on "The Parting Of The Ways" (ep# 2713/113). It just seemed sort of sad, but the impact point was well made.. Jack fearing deja vu..??

mizzoueng
July 28th, 2008, 12:04 PM
I liked this episode, but as I am just starting to get into DW I didn't understand some of the finer points that I am seeing on here.

What was the key and project indigo? I know Jack explained indigo, but where did we get teh technology for it? Martha said the pack "sensed where she wanted to go" and took her home, so does that make it a mini TARDIS? It didn't seem to be able to travel time, just space.

The time shift. The TARDIS travels through time, why did it seem to be such a feat to travel 2 seconds into the future? This just didn't make sense to me, if yo traveled 3 seconds into the future you would still see the planets all around the Medusa Cascade, why such a specific location?

Rose, based on her teleportation and the fact she used a phone to get there, I assumed she was still using the old TARDIS from the alternate Earth that we saw with Donna and the Beetle.

MasySyma
July 28th, 2008, 12:36 PM
I liked this episode, but as I am just starting to get into DW I didn't understand some of the finer points that I am seeing on here.

What was the key and project indigo? I know Jack explained indigo, but where did we get teh technology for it? Martha said the pack "sensed where she wanted to go" and took her home, so does that make it a mini TARDIS? It didn't seem to be able to travel time, just space.

The time shift. The TARDIS travels through time, why did it seem to be such a feat to travel 2 seconds into the future? This just didn't make sense to me, if yo traveled 3 seconds into the future you would still see the planets all around the Medusa Cascade, why such a specific location?

Rose, based on her teleportation and the fact she used a phone to get there, I assumed she was still using the old TARDIS from the alternate Earth that we saw with Donna and the Beetle.

I can help a bit, I think.

Project Indigo is attempting to create a teleport from technology leftover after the Sontaran two-parter earlier this series. They could beam people from the surface of the planet to their ships.

The Doctor becomes part of events when he visits a time and place, so while he can visit the future in general, he can't go ten seconds into his own future at any specific locale. That's why the two seconds are crucial.

Rose has a phone that should be able to call the TARDIS, but unless something unusual has happened, she doesn't have a TARDIS, and the one she had access to in Turn Left was the Doctor's and would have returned to him when Donna and Rose fixed the timeline.

mizzoueng
July 28th, 2008, 01:15 PM
i see, so we (humans) managed to shrink down the teleportation pod that was left in that kids mansion from the sontarans into a backpack. Nice.

I understand the part about Rose loosing the phone, but since she is essentially "jumping" realities, and the fact that she had and used a phone in this eppy, does it stand to reason that since the walls of reality are falling that the "Donna Beetle" reality is still there and she is using the TARDIS from that reality (or residual BADWOLF powers) to travel across the void to find the Doctor?

The only reason I wonder about the "beetle" reality is because in that reality the Doctor dies, Rose is there and she just misses him befoer he dies. This reality was centered around Donna turning right. Donna goes back in time and dies, making her turn left. Thus the beetle reality and the shows reality merge, so Rose should have followed the shows reality when they merged and could have appeared during the Christmas spider thing invasion. But she didn't, and she can still jump realities, I thought this was only possible because of the use of the dead doctors TARDIS.

I'm confused, hopefully they will explain how Rose is essentially a human TARDIS.

Mr Prophet
July 28th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Rose is using the same alt-Torchwood tech that Jackie and Mickey are using to jump across and within universes, which is made possible by the merging of the realities as a result of the Crucible's pan-dimensional effects. Throughout Turn Left she had to keep popping in and trying for the right moment to contact Donna. What the TARDIS allowed them to do was send Donna back in time; it wasn't connected to Rose's reality-hopping.

wurlitzer153
July 28th, 2008, 08:53 PM
which is made possible by the merging of the realities as a result of the Crucible's pan-dimensional effects.

Huh? If this is from 3013, please use spoiler tags. Some of us haven't seen it yet.

Mr Prophet
July 28th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Huh? If this is from 3013, please use spoiler tags. Some of us haven't seen it yet.

I don't think so. Rose mentions the threat to all the universes and the thinning of the walls in Turn Left.

Pitry
July 29th, 2008, 02:05 AM
Rose mentioned the dimensional cannon measuring timelines and stuff. Now as far as I can tell she can't travel in time, but it's a good thing to remember that her universe is running at a different pace to our own - Rise of the Cybermen/ The Age of Steel was jsut several months before Army of Ghosts/ Doomsday for Rose adn the Doctor, but it was 3 years for Mickey and Pete. If they can switch from one dimension to another perhaps they can play with that time difference, too. So not exactly time travel - she can't travel to her own future and she can't travel to somewhere that is in our universe's future - otherwise she would have travelled to the future and realised what Davros is doing - but she can sort of travel to the past.
Maybe.
I personally tend to solve these things by a shrug and muttering "Doctor Who logic". I said it before, but tight plottings and well thought of techno babble is not the reason I watch DW :)

Anyway, I don't think she was using the Tardis from the beetle reality - first, it looked like that whole thing was fried and dead, and then dead some more in order to send Donna back in time, and second, she would have actually used it - what she used looked like the inter-dimensional teleport from Doomsday, not anything they did with Donna. And another thing - the parallel universe was very much like our own... but it has no Doctor. Same in the old series, if I'm not mistaken - both in Inferno and in season 18 where the Doctor travels to parallel universes, he never meets himself. I've always assumed Time Lords are so much outside of time and space that they don't have parallels, they exist only in one dimension. So the beetle reality really does stop existing, because unlike other universes, it's simply not an option - you can't have two different realities with the Doctor in them.

And alstly the timeshift, the way I understood it it's not that everything happens in the Medusa Cascade before or after it does in the universe, it's just that it's completely seperated by a sort of time barrier from the rest of the universe, it's no longer a part of the known universe.

Mr Prophet
July 29th, 2008, 02:12 AM
And alstly the timeshift, the way I understood it it's not that everything happens in the Medusa Cascade before or after it does in the universe, it's just that it's completely seperated by a sort of time barrier from the rest of the universe, it's no longer a part of the known universe.

This is what I believe. It's a temporal displacement; so long as you're in synch with the rest of the universe, the captured planets are a few seconds ahead of you. When you get to when they were - by time machine or by waiting - they've gone another few seconds further ahead. You need to have a time machine and to know that the displacement is there if you want to cross the divide.

nx01a
July 29th, 2008, 02:29 PM
I alway assumed the TARDIS had temporal sensors that would be able to detect things like that. If the Daleks are such aces [ahem] at destroying TARDISes, then why can't a TARDIS be ace at detecting Dalek time tricks?

ShadowMaat
July 29th, 2008, 10:13 PM
I don't think so. Rose mentions the threat to all the universes and the thinning of the walls in Turn Left.

I think some of it was, actually. Jackie and Mickey haven't shown up yet. Unless I'm forgetting something big from a previous ep. Or if Skiffy snipped out something big from Stolen Earth.

Mr Prophet
July 30th, 2008, 01:31 AM
I think some of it was, actually. Jackie and Mickey haven't shown up yet. Unless I'm forgetting something big from a previous ep. Or if Skiffy snipped out something big from Stolen Earth.

Point. Edited. Sorry.

nx01a
August 22nd, 2008, 06:03 PM
I forgot to ask...
Anyone else see that bed of nails at the Shadow Proclamation hq? :P

Coco Pops
September 22nd, 2008, 01:41 AM
The Medusa Cascade hid Earth and the other planets. They were exactly 1 second ahead of the rest of the universe and that's why no one could see them till the Doctor found them in the TARDIS.......

Hey what happens if a Dalek shoots Captain Jack? Shouldn't he come back to life? Woudln't that just piss them off?

Did anyone notice the voice of the red dalek was just like the voice of the Emperor?

Other things I noticed. I can't get over the fact Elisabeth Sladen is 60. She looks niiiicccceeeee....... I read that on the net, about her age. I can't get over it....

Like the free computer UNIT gave her, cheesy. Dr. Who is all about cheese..

My gripe is that again we have the bloody Daleks.. I'm honestly over them.

gateship15
September 22nd, 2008, 02:06 AM
i don't like that the doctor regenerates because that will mean that we gate another doctor and i think it will be Donna who will die. because in last episode her in the parallel world said that she will die there but live in the doctors world would live and rose said shes sorry witch implies she will die if not in the next episode sometime after

Coco Pops
September 22nd, 2008, 02:42 AM
i don't like that the doctor regenerates because that will mean that we gate another doctor and i think it will be Donna who will die. because in last episode her in the parallel world said that she will die there but live in the doctors world would live and rose said shes sorry witch implies she will die if not in the next episode sometime after


Actually they do something unforgivable to Donna IMHO... The doctor wipes her memory of her time in the TARDIS and she just becomes Donna ordinary human...... I mean she was at the start of the series but doing what they did was in my opinion unforgivable.

I still hate them for it.

gateship15
September 23rd, 2008, 02:14 AM
don't worry it may not have been shown here yet but i cheat anyway so u don't have to hide it. i also don't think it is right but if its the only way to save her then it is acceptable. i also think that it would of been hard for the doctor to do since it is hard for him when any of his companions leave that he knows she would live a happy normal life without him.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2008, 03:01 AM
don't worry it may not have been shown here yet but i cheat anyway so u don't have to hide it. i also don't think it is right but if its the only way to save her then it is acceptable. i also think that it would of been hard for the doctor to do since it is hard for him when any of his companions leave that he knows she would live a happy normal life without him.



See that's what I don't get. Everyone says "it's the only way" what does that meaan? Living on Earth with memories of travelling in time and space. What's the harm? Unless her time away has altered her in such a way that wiping her mind saves her life. I DON'T THINK SO....... I don't think they gave enough of a good reason for doing it.

Atlantean2005
September 23rd, 2008, 01:03 PM
See that's what I don't get. Everyone says "it's the only way" what does that meaan? Living on Earth with memories of travelling in time and space. What's the harm? Unless her time away has altered her in such a way that wiping her mind saves her life. I DON'T THINK SO....... I don't think they gave enough of a good reason for doing it.

If this helps any:

The reason the Doctor wiped her mind was because of the Time-Lord knowledge that she gained when the biological metacrisis occurred. That much info in a brain that wasn't prepared for it was litterally overloading her mind and would've eventually killed her. Almost like when Rose absorbed the Time Vortex in "The Parting of the Ways." The strain would've killed her had the Doctor not fixed her.

Anyway, hope that helps clear any confusion :)

Atlantean2005
September 23rd, 2008, 01:22 PM
Like the free computer UNIT gave her, cheesy. Dr. Who is all about cheese..

Mr. Smith didn't come from UNIT.

In "The Sarah Jane Adventures, the season/series" (which ever term you use) 1 finale, Sarah Jane explains Mr. Smith's origins after he goes "rouge" (even though he's been playing her from the start by manipulating her in minor events). She says (if I'm remembering correctly b/c it's been awhile since I've see it) that an archeaologist (sp?) friend of hers found an unusual crystal while on a dig and sent it to her as a gift. Sarah Jane discovered that it was actually part of an alien lifeform/computer. Turns out Mr. Smith is called a Zylog, an alien "with a purpose."

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2008, 08:14 PM
If this helps any:

The reason the Doctor wiped her mind was because of the Time-Lord knowledge that she gained when the biological metacrisis occurred. That much info in a brain that wasn't prepared for it was litterally overloading her mind and would've eventually killed her. Almost like when Rose absorbed the Time Vortex in "The Parting of the Ways." The strain would've killed her had the Doctor not fixed her.

Anyway, hope that helps clear any confusion :)



Ah...... But still given the scifi premise they could have removed specific parts of that and kept her memories of travel in the TARDIS... Surely a more selective method could have been done, after all it's scifi......

And what specific Timelord knowledge had she gained?

Atlantean2005
September 23rd, 2008, 08:25 PM
Ah...... But still given the scifi premise they could have removed specific parts of that and kept her memories of travel in the TARDIS... Surely a more selective method could have been done, after all it's scifi......

And what specific Timelord knowledge had she gained?

True. I was kinda disappointed with the Donna thing as well. I really liked her. :( But to answer your other question, she knew EVERYTHING the Doctor knew. Hence the "DoctorDonna" phrase that the Ood were talking about. I guess in a way, or really in fact, she became a Time Lord in a human body.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2008, 08:29 PM
True. I was kinda disappointed with the Donna thing as well. I really liked her. :( But to answer your other question, she knew EVERYTHING the Doctor knew. Hence the "DoctorDonna" phrase that the Ood were talking about. I guess in a way, or really in fact, she became a Time Lord in a human body.




I don't get that. How did she gain all the knowledge the Doc had? Was that from when she was poisoned in the Christmas special? The Ood was like the second or third episode wasn't it so where did this knowledge download occur lol??????????

BTW speaking of the Ood there's no logical reason they have to hold that brain in their hand. They could just let it hang like they used to do with the orb... And thus they'd get use of both hands.

Atlantean2005
September 23rd, 2008, 08:56 PM
I don't get that. How did she gain all the knowledge the Doc had? Was that from when she was poisoned in the Christmas special? The Ood was like the second or third episode wasn't it so where did this knowledge download occur lol??????????

I'm gonna work on the assumption that you've seen both part of the finale, right? Because I don't really ruin anyting for you if you haven't, although I probably already have :). Behind the spoiler tags for those who haven't.

Of course, at the end of "The Stolen Earth" the Doctor is shot by the Dalek and begins to regenerate. Then we get the "TO BE CONTINUED". At the opening of "Journey's End", the Doctor somehow siphons the energy off after healing himself and sends it into his spare hand in the Torchwood Jar from Jack. After this, the Daleks render the Tardis powerless/defenseless and send it to the Crucible. Doing the noble thing, everyone one surrenders but on the way out, Donna stops because she hears a heartbeat. The Tardis doors close, locking her in. The Daleks then try to destroy the Tardis by dropping it down a shaft into the core. While everything is blowing up around Donna, she begins to hear the heartbeat again and notices the hand is glowing. When she reaches out and touches the jar, the energy does a feed back into Donna before shattering the jar and sprouting a new Doctor from the hand. That's when the "download" happend. Although her new knowledge didn't activate until Davros hit her with an electrical surge (finger of doom, for lack of a better term :S). After that, she knows how to pull the plug, quite literally, on Davros' plan. And about the Ood, I think that it was implied that they have some sort of psychic ability. Also, thanks to Dalek Caan, the time lines were manipulated around Donna, getting her to the right places at the right time.

Sorry it's so long, but I was trying to cover all the bases. Though I probably left something out. Again, hope this helps.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2008, 09:11 PM
I'm gonna work on the assumption that you've seen both part of the finale, right? Because I don't really ruin anyting for you if you haven't, although I probably already have :). Behind the spoiler tags for those who haven't.

Of course, at the end of "The Stolen Earth" the Doctor is shot by the Dalek and begins to regenerate. Then we get the "TO BE CONTINUED". At the opening of "Journey's End", the Doctor somehow siphons the energy off after healing himself and sends it into his spare hand in the Torchwood Jar from Jack. After this, the Daleks render the Tardis powerless/defenseless and send it to the Crucible. Doing the noble thing, everyone one surrenders but on the way out, Donna stops because she hears a heartbeat. The Tardis doors close, locking her in. The Daleks then try to destroy the Tardis by dropping it down a shaft into the core. While everything is blowing up around Donna, she begins to hear the heartbeat again and notices the hand is glowing. When she reaches out and touches the jar, the energy does a feed back into Donna before shattering the jar and sprouting a new Doctor from the hand. That's when the "download" happend. Although her new knowledge didn't activate until Davros hit her with an electrical surge (finger of doom, for lack of a better term :S). After that, she knows how to pull the plug, quite literally, on Davros' plan. And about the Ood, I think that it was implied that they have some sort of psychic ability. Also, thanks to Dalek Caan, the time lines were manipulated around Donna, getting her to the right places at the right time.

Sorry it's so long, but I was trying to cover all the bases. Though I probably left something out. Again, hope this helps.




Oh no that's cool...... Love it makes the episode seem more exciting to look forwards to. Again though is it because of the mangled time lines tha tthe Ood sensed "doctordonna"

Also is what I said about the Ood and their use of their hands reasonable?

Atlantean2005
September 23rd, 2008, 09:22 PM
Oh no that's cool...... Love it makes the episode seem more exciting to look forwards to. Again though is it because of the mangled time lines tha tthe Ood sensed "doctordonna"

Also is what I said about the Ood and their use of their hands reasonable?

Honestly, I'm not sure if the magnles time lines had anything to do with it or not. Maybe, then again maybe not. All I know is that at the end of "Planet of the Ood" the "leader" tells the Doctor and Donna "we will forever sing songs of the DoctorDonna" or something to that nature.

And about the brain thing, it does make sense. Although I guess they (the writers) wanted to make it seem like since that it was part of their brain and themselves, put a bit more...respect/dignity to the Ood and have them hold it instead of the easy,defiling (if that's even a word :S) way out with sticking it on their clothes like with the translator orb thingys. I hope that makes sense. It kinda sorta does to me but then again, only I can comprehend the stuff that goes through my head... sometimes :cool:

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2008, 09:53 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure if the magnles time lines had anything to do with it or not. Maybe, then again maybe not. All I know is that at the end of "Planet of the Ood" the "leader" tells the Doctor and Donna "we will forever sing songs of the DoctorDonna" or something to that nature.

And about the brain thing, it does make sense. Although I guess they (the writers) wanted to make it seem like since that it was part of their brain and themselves, put a bit more...respect/dignity to the Ood and have them hold it instead of the easy,defiling (if that's even a word :S) way out with sticking it on their clothes like with the translator orb thingys. I hope that makes sense. It kinda sorta does to me but then again, only I can comprehend the stuff that goes through my head... sometimes :cool:



Oh no I got what you meant. Made perfect sense actually. I get the whole "defiling" comment... With them holding the small forebrain they are showing that they are gentle creatures, and that they're respectful of that organ and so others seeing them would pay them respect, because as Donna said. "any creature that comes at you like that with its brain in its hand like that doesn't mean you harm, and they're showing you they're defenseless" If my memory serves me correctly.

gateship15
September 24th, 2008, 12:54 AM
i find that the companions of the doctor usually don't want to leave him and that some of the companions do not seem to react well in being thrust back into the normal world because of what they have seen and done during there time with the doctor.

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2008, 01:04 AM
i find that the companions of the doctor usually don't want to leave him and that some of the companions do not seem to react well in being thrust back into the normal world because of what they have seen and done during there time with the doctor.


I guess, but to me it would have been a fairer mor realistic end to Donna unless they do a magic reset and find a way for her to return. Maybe that honking big ring on her finger is something.

gateship15
September 24th, 2008, 01:43 AM
big ring?

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2008, 02:38 AM
big ring?



In the finale they do seversl closeups of a ring on Donna's hand

gateship15
September 24th, 2008, 02:45 AM
oo ok i will look out for it. what happens to rose does she go back to the parallel world?

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2008, 02:51 AM
oo ok i will look out for it. what happens to rose does she go back to the parallel world?



Yep... read back on this thread and you shall find out... She even gets' her own doctor

gateship15
September 24th, 2008, 02:56 AM
[spoil]oo cool so she gets a doctor to love after all and the parallel world gets there own doctor to help them

nx01a
September 26th, 2008, 03:26 PM
You might wanna spoiler tag that ^ for people who haven't seen the 2nd part yet, gateship.;)
As for The Doctor...
For another... 60 years or so they've got a Doctor, yeah. Then he, ahem, dies. :( Human old age and what not. There's always the wonderful prospect of partly Time Lord children!:D

Chevron Atlantis
September 27th, 2008, 05:38 PM
I love watching Doctor Who its awesome, :D Cheesy graphics but yeah the storyline is very good, that tells you that you don't need good CGI in order for a Sci Fi series to be good.

I don't know what BSG purists are on about saying SGA has crappy CGI, its CGI are ok, but I am more into the storyline.
Doctor WHo rules :D

nx01a
September 28th, 2008, 12:27 PM
CGI crappy... Where? How?

gateship15
September 29th, 2008, 01:11 AM
lol yea well when i posted that i hadn't watched it. but the doctor seems to love humans even in the old serise but i'm glade it all worked out well

Coco Pops
September 29th, 2008, 01:53 AM
But I remember on more then one occasion the CE Doctor calling humans stupid apes....... Not in a nice way either......


Did we ever see the Doc regenerating into CE?

gateship15
October 1st, 2008, 03:05 AM
well if the humans stoped doing stupid things he would stop calling them that. but still in the old series he may not of liked having humans around at first he slowly adapted and now i think he misses it when he doesn't have anyone to keep him company and to stop him.

Coco Pops
October 1st, 2008, 08:13 AM
well if the humans stoped doing stupid things he would stop calling them that. but still in the old series he may not of liked having humans around at first he slowly adapted and now i think he misses it when he doesn't have anyone to keep him company and to stop him.



Hey you asked about CE....... "Christopher Eccleston" = CE

gateship15
October 2nd, 2008, 02:50 AM
no i think that we were never meant to see it and it was only meant to be suggested. and thank u for clearing that up for me.

mi_guard
September 17th, 2011, 11:38 AM
:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMpO5aA7TaU&feature=related

Coco Pops
September 17th, 2011, 05:36 PM
no i think that we were never meant to see it and it was only meant to be suggested. and thank u for clearing that up for me.

Pardon me but what were we not meant to see?

maneth
May 8th, 2013, 08:58 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. Great to see all the companions, including Sarah Jane!