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Merlin1701
June 9th, 2008, 12:55 PM
I was just watching ‘New Order’ and think the character of Daniel Jackson would be a viable leader figure on Atlantis.

• He has been ascended, twice, so has a grasp of ancient rules and the ancients kind of like him. Before anybody says he can't remember his time ascended, i know; but its still in there and would you not agree he is an authority on the subject?!

• He’s a non-military character that has negotiated with multiple races throughout the Milky Way galaxy

• He learns spoken and written languages rather quickly

There are more, feel free to add more…

While he may be prowling through the Asgard interface/ library he has to be better than Woolsy.

Your thoughts…

rarocks24
June 9th, 2008, 12:57 PM
I was just watching ‘New Order’ and think the character of Daniel Jackson would be a viable leader figure on Atlantis.

• He has been ascended, twice, so has a grasp of ancient rules and the ancients kind of like him. Before anybody says he can't remember his time ascended, i know; but its still in there and would you not agree he is an authority on the subject?!

• He’s a non-military character that has negotiated with multiple races throughout the Milky Way galaxy

• He learns spoken and written languages rather quickly

There are more, feel free to add more…

While he may be prowling through the Asgard interface/ library he has to be better than Woolsy.

Your thoughts…

As much as I love Dear Dr. Jackson, he's not leadership material. He's become sort of Mary-Sue ish in some ways.

Chuck would be the perfect leader of Atlantis. Yes, Chuck.

g.o.d
June 9th, 2008, 12:58 PM
I agree. He should be there as a leader of expedition instead of Woolsey

g.o.d
June 9th, 2008, 12:58 PM
As much as I love Dear Dr. Jackson, he's not leadership material. He's become sort of Mary-Sue ish in some ways.

Chuck would be the perfect leader of Atlantis. Yes, Chuck.

what or who is Mary-Sue? I've seen thin in several threads :confused:

Jumper_One
June 9th, 2008, 02:10 PM
what or who is Mary-Sue? I've seen thin in several threads :confused:

Mary Sue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary-sue) ;)

Pic
June 9th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Chuck would be the perfect leader of Atlantis. Yes, Chuck.

:lol:

jelgate
June 9th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Mary Sue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary-sue) ;)Do you something to back that up. I don't trust wikipedia.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 9th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Daniel is not a leader. He is not qualified to be the overseer of scientific and military operations in atlantis. woolsey is qualified.

jenks
June 9th, 2008, 04:16 PM
He's a hell of a lot more qualified than Weir ever was.

morjana
June 9th, 2008, 05:59 PM
I was just watching ‘New Order’ and think the character of Daniel Jackson would be a viable leader figure on Atlantis.




No.

Daniel's experiences do NOT add up to qualifications as the Atlantis mission commander.

His experiences as a negotiator (for example, "Divide and Conquer,' or "Learning Curve"), put his skills more in the appeaser category.

Weir, who learned to bluff from watching her father's games ("New Order, Part One), had a reputation for being a tough negotiator.

Plus, Daniel (due to his theories on the Egyptian pyramids), doesn't have the full respect of his archeology peers.

Woolsey also has the reputation, the working experience, to be the new Atlantis mission commander.

Morjana

Ltcolshepjumper
June 9th, 2008, 06:08 PM
He's a hell of a lot more qualified than Weir ever was.

Not really. Weir had diplomatic and leadership experience. Unlike Daniel, she actually brokered several treaties (the writer's must have forgotten about that when writing her character). Daniel is the most qualified to be in Atlantis, but not the leader. Would you put Daniel in charge of the SGC?

madaboutdanny
June 9th, 2008, 06:19 PM
As much as I love Dear Dr. Jackson, he's not leadership material. He's become sort of Mary-Sue ish in some ways.

Chuck would be the perfect leader of Atlantis. Yes, Chuck.
Are you kidding? If there was a Mary Sue on Stargate certainly wasn't Daniel...


No.

Plus, Daniel (due to his theories on the Egyptian pyramids), doesn't have the full respect of his archeology peers.

Woolsey also has the reputation, the working experience, to be the new Atlantis mission commander.

Morjana

But Daniel doesn't need that, 'cause in Atlantis they know that his theories were rigth! And I don't think that Woolsey deserves more respect than Daniel or, better, that Atlantis crew respect him more than Daniel. Plus Daniel has 10 + 2 Stargate's years of training....

Ferret
June 9th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Not really. Weir had diplomatic and leadership experience. Unlike Daniel, she actually brokered several treaties (the writer's must have forgotten about that when writing her character). Daniel is the most qualified to be in Atlantis, but not the leader. Would you put Daniel in charge of the SGC?

And doom the planet? I wouldn't.

Mitchell82
June 9th, 2008, 07:06 PM
I was just watching ‘New Order’ and think the character of Daniel Jackson would be a viable leader figure on Atlantis.

• He has been ascended, twice, so has a grasp of ancient rules and the ancients kind of like him. Before anybody says he can't remember his time ascended, i know; but its still in there and would you not agree he is an authority on the subject?!

• He’s a non-military character that has negotiated with multiple races throughout the Milky Way galaxy

• He learns spoken and written languages rather quickly

There are more, feel free to add more…

While he may be prowling through the Asgard interface/ library he has to be better than Woolsy.

Your thoughts…
Those examples show that he is more than capable to be a member of the expedition but not a leader. He is not the leadership type anymore than Rodney.

Mitchell82
June 9th, 2008, 07:07 PM
As much as I love Dear Dr. Jackson, he's not leadership material. He's become sort of Mary-Sue ish in some ways.
Daniel a Mary Sue? Uh if anyone qualifies for that it certainly is not Daniel.


Chuck would be the perfect leader of Atlantis. Yes, Chuck.
LMAO yeah sure he is...

jelgate
June 9th, 2008, 07:10 PM
I can't help but laugh at that. Can imagine what would happen if McKay was the leader?

Mitchell82
June 9th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I can't help but laugh at that. Can imagine what would happen if McKay was the leader?

Yup this.http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/HDTVsg1-10x20_2414.jpg

jenks
June 9th, 2008, 07:34 PM
Not really. Weir had diplomatic and leadership experience.

Not really, her leadership experience must of lasted only a couple of weeks.


Unlike Daniel, she actually brokered several treaties (the writer's must have forgotten about that when writing her character). Daniel is the most qualified to be in Atlantis, but not the leader.

Daniel brokered the treaty between Earth and the Tok'Ra. Beyond that he's negotiated with funk knows how many aliens races and has lots of experience with gate travel and interplanetary relations, not to mention the fact that he's Earth's foremost expert on the Ancients. Seriously, he's more qualified than Weir ever was, and by a large margin too.


Would you put Daniel in charge of the SGC?

No, but then I wouldn't have put a diplomat with zero relevant experience like Weir in charge either.

Frontastic
June 10th, 2008, 04:46 AM
Weir, not qualified?! Are you mad!
I'm actaully coming around to Woolsey being leader, at first I hated the idea but I think it could be ok.
I couldn't see Daniel being leader either, maybe an adviser, like in New Order, but not leader.
I know it was only a joke but if they put Chuck in charge I'd stop watching, I HATE Chuck. :mad:

KlaxxonBlue
June 10th, 2008, 07:41 AM
Not really. Weir had diplomatic and leadership experience. Unlike Daniel, she actually brokered several treaties (the writer's must have forgotten about that when writing her character). Daniel is the most qualified to be in Atlantis, but not the leader. Would you put Daniel in charge of the SGC?

Ummmmm..... Mehbe I'm not thinking right, but didn't he along with a few others broker the alliance with the Asgard? If so, doesn't that count for a bit more than a couple treaties? :)

The thing is, Daniel has never been given true leadership ability, and probably for good reason. As Ganos Lal said, he thinks and speaks from his heart. While your heart never leads you wrong, others may be quick to take advantage of that.

KlaxxonBlue

DesertFox2020
June 10th, 2008, 07:51 AM
I know it was only a joke but if they put Chuck in charge I'd stop watching, I HATE Chuck. :mad:

:thoranime09: Nobody hates Chuck!!

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 09:21 AM
He's a hell of a lot more qualified than Weir ever was.

and Woolsey ever will be

Jackie
June 10th, 2008, 09:43 AM
Daniel opened the Gate, played a leadership role in Abydos, has more degrees than McKay, (smarter too). Has 14 years plus of off world experience, which includes negotiations, POW, voicing his opinion against Jacks' and BEING right.

Daniel is more than qualified to be the leader of Atlantis and is certainly more qualified than Woosley who has done nothing but quote laws and regulations.

He's more qualified than Weir and the reason he didn't go to Atlantis according to show canon is because JACK wouldn't let him go becuase Daniel was needed here!

IMO he was as qualified as Carter, if not more!

The only person I would like to see on Atlantis as leader OTHER than Daniel from SG-1 would be Hammond! :)

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Daniel opened the Gate, played a leadership role in Abydos, has more degrees than McKay, (smarter too). Has 14 years plus of off world experience, which includes negotiations, POW, voicing his opinion against Jacks' and BEING right.

Daniel is more than qualified to be the leader of Atlantis and is certainly more qualified than Woosley who has done nothing but quote laws and regulations.

He's more qualified than Weir and the reason he didn't go to Atlantis according to show canon is because JACK wouldn't let him go becuase Daniel was needed here!

IMO he was as qualified as Carter, if not more!

The only person I would like to see on Atlantis as leader OTHER than Daniel from SG-1 would be Hammond! :)

exactly! ;)

flynn1959
June 10th, 2008, 10:20 AM
Daniel opened the Gate, played a leadership role in Abydos, has more degrees than McKay, (smarter too). Has 14 years plus of off world experience, which includes negotiations, POW, voicing his opinion against Jacks' and BEING right.

Daniel is more than qualified to be the leader of Atlantis and is certainly more qualified than Woosley who has done nothing but quote laws and regulations.

He's more qualified than Weir and the reason he didn't go to Atlantis according to show canon is because JACK wouldn't let him go becuase Daniel was needed here!

IMO he was as qualified as Carter, if not more!

The only person I would like to see on Atlantis as leader OTHER than Daniel from SG-1 would be Hammond! :)


I agree. Daniel has shown that he has true leadership qualities. He has always been a take charge character, ever since the movie when he saved Jack's life and organised the people of Abydos to overthrow Ra. I think he would make an excellent leader of Atlantis. I loved Weir but if she really had to go, and I don't want to start that thing up again but if she did, then Daniel would have been the logical choice to replace her.

I have no idea why they chose Carter and now Woolsey.:(

Of course, Jack would never let Daniel get that far away from him, long distance relationships are a pain in the neck!

stclare
June 10th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Daniel opened the Gate, played a leadership role in Abydos, has more degrees than McKay, (smarter too). Has 14 years plus of off world experience, which includes negotiations, POW, voicing his opinion against Jacks' and BEING right.

Daniel is more than qualified to be the leader of Atlantis and is certainly more qualified than Woosley who has done nothing but quote laws and regulations.

He's more qualified than Weir and the reason he didn't go to Atlantis according to show canon is because JACK wouldn't let him go becuase Daniel was needed here!

IMO he was as qualified as Carter, if not more!

The only person I would like to see on Atlantis as leader OTHER than Daniel from SG-1 would be Hammond! :)

I would not say that Daniel is smarter than Rodney or Sam. He maybe smarter in his chosen fields, but that does not mean he is smarter overall.

Really I would not like anymore sg1 members becoming regulars on Atlantis. Carter, I felt was a shadow of her former self (from my limited knowledge of her) I dont see as yet how Woolie boy is going to fit, but thats tuff as thats what we have got. if they then changed Wooley for Daniel id wonder whats so difficult about this position that no one can hold it down for any length of time ;)

if wooley doesnt continue this role into the following season (if that happens) I for one would like to see someone new.

Klenotka
June 10th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Chuck would be the perfect leader of Atlantis. Yes, Chuck.

I thought he already is a leader of Atlantis.:D In S4, I usually saw him and the team, without anyone else - so I assumed that he was their boss :D

And no, not Daniel. I don´t mind him being in Atlantis for few episodes but not as a leader. I don´t think they should put any SG1 character into major role in SGA. They tried it last year and it didn´t work. And, Daniel really isn´t a leading material. They had someone very similar there - with leading abilities - Elizabeth. Even after such long time, I don´t understand why did they do what they did.

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Not really, her leadership experience must of lasted only a couple of weeks.
I can't believe I'm actually going to defend Weir but I actually have grown to like her character up until First Strike. She acted like a baby in that ep and Torri's behavior is enough to make me loose respect for the character. However she was qualified to run the expedition with her negotiating skills and knowledge of the Ancients however she was not qualified to make military decisions and one of the reasons I don't like her behavior in First Strike. However the military should have at least consulted her.




Daniel brokered the treaty between Earth and the Tok'Ra. Beyond that he's negotiated with funk knows how many aliens races and has lots of experience with gate travel and interplanetary relations, not to mention the fact that he's Earth's foremost expert on the Ancients. Seriously, he's more qualified than Weir ever was, and by a large margin too.
His knowledge of the Ancients is far superior but other than that no Weir was more qualified from a negotiation standpoint.




No, but then I wouldn't have put a diplomat with zero relevant experience like Weir in charge either.
A civilian shouldn't have been put in charge but she did have plenty of experience to draw from.

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 11:45 AM
I thought he already is a leader of Atlantis.:D In S4, I usually saw him and the team, without anyone else - so I assumed that he was their boss :D

And no, not Daniel. I don´t mind him being in Atlantis for few episodes but not as a leader. I don´t think they should put any SG1 character into major role in SGA. They tried it last year and it didn´t work. And, Daniel really isn´t a leading material. They had someone very similar there - with leading abilities - Elizabeth. Even after such long time, I don´t understand why did they do what they did.

I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala:(

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 11:46 AM
His knowledge of the Ancients is far superior but other than that no Weir was more qualified from a negotiation standpoint.

Negotiations can be very easy if you have superior firepower like we have with out ships:)

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2008, 11:47 AM
I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala:(

Waits for the forum to http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/2x01_866.jpg

flynn1959
June 10th, 2008, 12:04 PM
I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala:(

Or...leave Atlantis as it is and make Stargate SG1 season eleven! I miss Vala too.:(

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Or...leave Atlantis as it is and make Stargate SG1 season eleven! I miss Vala too.:(

it won 't be same without the Ori :(

Stormtrooper
June 10th, 2008, 12:09 PM
I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala:(

I agree. Atlantis is butchered anyway.

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 12:09 PM
I agree. Atlantis is butchered anyway.

it is

flynn1959
June 10th, 2008, 12:10 PM
it won 't be same without the Ori :(

Ah but don't forget nobody ever dies in SF!

g.o.d
June 10th, 2008, 12:12 PM
Ah but don't forget nobody ever dies in SF!

I believe that RCC won't introduce so powerful enemy again. He didn't know what to do with them so he decided to kill them off-screen in the most idiotic way possible:S

Ltcolshepjumper
June 10th, 2008, 12:19 PM
I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala:(

WHy not just bring back SG-1 then. It wouldn't be the same with them in Atlantis. Besides, getting rid of one cast in order to bring back an old one is not better, it's worse.

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2008, 12:20 PM
WHy not just bring back SG-1 then. It wouldn't be the same with them in Atlantis. Besides, getting rid of one cast in order to bring back an old one is not better, it's worse.

Ok this is getting way off topic. We don't need this to evolve into a "I hate Atlantis" thread.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 10th, 2008, 12:23 PM
hasn't this topic been discussed before anyway? I think we need to stop debating SGA vs SG-1 altogether. We all know that the problem is the writers, not the cast/characters or the story.

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2008, 12:30 PM
hasn't this topic been discussed before anyway? I think we need to stop debating SGA vs SG-1 altogether. We all know that the problem is the writers, not the cast/characters or the story.

Yes it has. Regardless as to who does or does not think there is a problem with the show, this topic has been said and done.

jenks
June 10th, 2008, 01:13 PM
I can't believe I'm actually going to defend Weir but I actually have grown to like her character up until First Strike. She acted like a baby in that ep and Torri's behavior is enough to make me loose respect for the character. However she was qualified to run the expedition with her negotiating skills and knowledge of the Ancients however she was not qualified to make military decisions and one of the reasons I don't like her behavior in First Strike. However the military should have at least consulted her.

His knowledge of the Ancients is far superior but other than that no Weir was more qualified from a negotiation standpoint.

Her knowledge of the Ancients didn't come until she got to Atlantis, she never had it going in. And she may be a better negotiator than Daniel, but I really don't think that qualifies someone in any way to lead an expedition to another galaxy, if it did then every SG team would have one. I think Daniels experience off world outweighs anything Weir can contribute.


A civilian shouldn't have been put in charge but she did have plenty of experience to draw from.

Like? Keep in mind at the time she was put in command Anubis was dominating the System Lords and he was on his way to Earth, negotiations weren't going to get her very far...

Ltcolshepjumper
June 10th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Her knowledge of the Ancients didn't come until she got to Atlantis, she never had it going in. And she may be a better negotiator than Daniel, but I really don't think that qualifies someone in any way to lead an expedition to another galaxy, if it did then every SG team would have one. I think Daniels experience off world outweighs anything Weir can contribute.



Like? Keep in mind at the time she was put in command Anubis was dominating the System Lords and he was on his way to Earth, negotiations weren't going to get her very far...

Look. Daniel's offworld experience does not really have anything to do with whether or not he should command Atlantis, or any base for that matter. The problem with Atlantis's situation is that Sheppard was never chosen to be ranking military officer. That's why Sumner was chosen. To orchestrate the military operations. Weir's primary jurisdiction was over the scientific, medical, and civilian aspects. Atlantis was never meant to be led by a military commander. Dr. Weir was not written correctly, hence her seemingly poor job as a diplomat. Atlantis was initially supposed to be a civilian base. They did not know the Wraith existed.

Also, Weir was not chosen to lead the SGC against Anubis's attack. That came after she was chosen. She was chosen so that the other nations of the Gate Alliance Treaty would not become alarmed that a military general was in control.

jenks
June 10th, 2008, 02:54 PM
All true, but none of it explains why a diplomat would be better suited to run Atlantis than Daniel. I'm not arguing that Daniel should be the leader, only that he's more qualified than Weir ever was.

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Her knowledge of the Ancients didn't come until she got to Atlantis, she never had it going in. And she may be a better negotiator than Daniel, but I really don't think that qualifies someone in any way to lead an expedition to another galaxy, if it did then every SG team would have one. I think Daniels experience off world outweighs anything Weir can contribute.
He may trump her in offworld travel but that has nothing to do with who was more qualified.




Like? Keep in mind at the time she was put in command Anubis was dominating the System Lords and he was on his way to Earth, negotiations weren't going to get her very far...
Maybe so but her performance in LC and New Order showed that Weir has great command potential it just was never constant on Atlantis. There would be times where she shined and others where she didn't.

Mitchell82
June 10th, 2008, 06:16 PM
All true, but none of it explains why a diplomat would be better suited to run Atlantis than Daniel. I'm not arguing that Daniel should be the leader, only that he's more qualified than Weir ever was.

I'm still trying to figure out how Daniel is even remotely qualified to run Atlantis other than his Ancient knowledge.

jenks
June 10th, 2008, 06:38 PM
He may trump her in offworld travel but that has nothing to do with who was more qualified.


I disagree.


I'm still trying to figure out how Daniel is even remotely qualified to run Atlantis other than his Ancient knowledge.

It's an expedition to another galaxy, how many times has Daniel gone on missions to places that have never been explored by humans from Earth before? Must be in triple figures at least, he's met with countless alien civilizations and managed to get himself out of all sorts of situations, plus he's Earths foremost expert on the Ancients. Now, let's see what Weir has, hmmm... She's negotiated a few treaties between countries on Earth, she's essentially a desk jockey. Daniels vast experience with gate travel, off world exploration, the military, the Ancients and pretty much anything else to do with the gate in general dwarfs anything that Weir has to offer.

Jackie
June 10th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I agree. Daniel has shown that he has true leadership qualities. He has always been a take charge character, ever since the movie when he saved Jack's life and organised the people of Abydos to overthrow Ra. I think he would make an excellent leader of Atlantis. I loved Weir but if she really had to go, and I don't want to start that thing up again but if she did, then Daniel would have been the logical choice to replace her.

I have no idea why they chose Carter and now Woolsey.:(

Of course, Jack would never let Daniel get that far away from him, long distance relationships are a pain in the neck!

We all wonder why tptb chose them. Sam...basically turns down leadership roles in SG-1. Woosley is just a prick with a pencil. :S




And no, not Daniel. I don´t mind him being in Atlantis for few episodes but not as a leader. I don´t think they should put any SG1 character into major role in SGA. They tried it last year and it didn´t work. And, Daniel really isn´t a leading material. They had someone very similar there - with leading abilities - Elizabeth. Even after such long time, I don´t understand why did they do what they did.

Wier was written out to give her a major story arc. Of course, the major arc was more like a bottle rocket than a major blast.

IMO, Wier was supposed to have been the female equivalent of Daniel. A civilian and negotiator who could speak read ancient. Nothing more. She was also (according to JM) was supposed to be a "hammond type role" more of a support than a leading female. Leave the leading female to Teyla...who is usually holding up the wall. Which leaves us with Rodney as the leading female IMO.


I would remove entire SGA team from the show and replace them with Cam, Vala, Daniel and Teal'c. I miss Vala:(

I could remove the cast as well. Vala? Honestly, I would have cast CB in a different role. I would have kept Vala as a one time, stand alone ep and hoped no one remembered the character.

Then cast CB as a new lead, under a new character, that had the fun of Vala but not the baggage of her past.

I did come up with a fic idea where CB would have been cast as a character that had parts of the Ancient knowledge that was embedded in her genetic code. (I would have made her a new type of ancient...but she didn't know she was an ancient)

I would given the character the ability to build space age gadgets, like Jack did when he was downloaded, but not really comprehend the whole picture.
Of course, I also would have dropped the boring Ori like a rock too!

I think the Wraith should find earth! I also think the wraith should get even stronger if they feed of a Jaffa or Goa'uld, Tok'ra and outright go after the Jaffa as dinner.

Yep, the Wraith need to take Atlantis and gain the city. Come to the milky way and wage a war with the Jaffa, To'kra and humans. Make Pegasus the Wraith's domain and have them continue to look for food.

We would be sending ships into Pegasus to rescue any humans we find and wage gorilla warfare with the Wraith. Yep, tptb need to kick the wraith into high gear.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 11th, 2008, 04:34 AM
He may trump her in offworld travel but that has nothing to do with who was more qualified.




Maybe so but her performance in LC and New Order showed that Weir has great command potential it just was never constant on Atlantis. There would be times where she shined and others where she didn't.

The writers should have written Weir consistently- the way they did in LC and New Order. I do not believe Daniel is more qualified to lead Atlantis. Daniel may have leadership capabilities, but he does not have administrative skills. There is a difference. You can be a natural leader, but not have the necessary skills or requirements to be in a position of command. Weir proved herself in handling the threat of Anubis and the other system lords.

Carter was chosen because the writers obviously felt they needed her to draw in SG-1 fans. That, and they wanted a viable reason to keep her on the show. After RDA left, Carter was obviously the figurehead of the series.

Woolsey, IMO, is the more reasonable choice. He has the skills of Daniel and Weir (minus the strong leadership capability), plus the political skills necessary. Remember, Weir was picked to be the administrator of Atlantis, not the commander of Atlantis. The distinction is very important when considering who exactly is qualified to be in charge. Daniel would be- he has most of the skills- but he doesn't have experience in top-level decision-making. And when you are sending an expedition to another galaxy, you want someone who has had that experience making tough decisions in administrative and diplomatic situations. As I posted earlier, Sheppard is supposed to make up for Weir's lack of military expertise (Carter was not needed to command Atlantis). Unfortunately, that doesn't work out too well, because he is offworld most of the time. Therefore, Atlantis really only needs a seasoned colonel to command the military aspects of the Expedition (someone like Everett, Sumner, or Oneill).

flynn1959
June 11th, 2008, 08:00 AM
[QUOTE=Ltcolshepjumper;8389404] I do not believe Daniel is more qualified to lead Atlantis. Daniel may have leadership capabilities, but he does not have administrative skills. There is a difference. You can be a natural leader, but not have the necessary skills or requirements to be in a position of command.
Carter was chosen because the writers obviously felt they needed her to draw in SG-1 fans. That, and they wanted a viable reason to keep her on the show. After RDA left, Carter was obviously the figurehead of the series.

QUOTE]

Daniel obviously needed admin skills to organise the people of Abydos, and as head of his dept at the SGC he would also need those same skills. He would have made a very good leader of Atlantis imo.

I don't think Carter was a good fit at all, she has no leadership skills to speak of. As for her drawing in the fans well, we all know how that worked out.:(

Figurehead of the series? Not sure which show you've been watching but it's obviously not the same one as me! Carter was, is, and always will be a supporting character.

Woolsey? I don't like him, have never liked him, and feel that his inclusion on the show is just stunt casting and smells of desperation on tptb's part.

Jackie
June 11th, 2008, 08:19 AM
The writers should have written Weir consistently- the way they did in LC and New Order. I do not believe Daniel is more qualified to lead Atlantis. Daniel may have leadership capabilities, but he does not have administrative skills. There is a difference. You can be a natural leader, but not have the necessary skills or requirements to be in a position of command. Weir proved herself in handling the threat of Anubis and the other system lords.

Carter was chosen because the writers obviously felt they needed her to draw in SG-1 fans. That, and they wanted a viable reason to keep her on the show. After RDA left, Carter was obviously the figurehead of the series.

Woolsey, IMO, is the more reasonable choice. He has the skills of Daniel and Weir (minus the strong leadership capability), plus the political skills necessary. Remember, Weir was picked to be the administrator of Atlantis, not the commander of Atlantis. The distinction is very important when considering who exactly is qualified to be in charge. Daniel would be- he has most of the skills- but he doesn't have experience in top-level decision-making. And when you are sending an expedition to another galaxy, you want someone who has had that experience making tough decisions in administrative and diplomatic situations. As I posted earlier, Sheppard is supposed to make up for Weir's lack of military expertise (Carter was not needed to command Atlantis). Unfortunately, that doesn't work out too well, because he is offworld most of the time. Therefore, Atlantis really only needs a seasoned colonel to command the military aspects of the Expedition (someone like Everett, Sumner, or Oneill).

How did you deduce that Daniel has no administrative skills for top level administration. He has 2 doctor's degrees! One of those degrees is in Anthropology. I believe part of the very curriculum to get a doctor's degree in any subject would be administrative skills!

Then add in his experience in the field, his leadership roles in the Stargate Program...including training roles. His ability to negotiate deals was brought up in a number of eps.

SGA needs to be restructure over all.

First no department heads should be going off world...that would technically include Sheppard and McKay if that were carried out.

The leader of SGA was intended as a "Hammond" type role. A supportive role but it didn't work out that way.

Wier did really good in the first season, as did the team because they were cut off from earth. After the ships came on a regular basis the series lost some of it's appeal IMO.

For me...Daniel on SGA would have been a major selling point. Sending him to replace weir would have made more sense than woosley or carter.

If tptb were serious about attracting sg-1 fans they would put either jack or daniel on SGA but that is not going to happen.

When people read fan fics...the ones I write with Jack and Daniel always get more attention than all the others.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 11th, 2008, 12:06 PM
How did you deduce that Daniel has no administrative skills for top level administration. He has 2 doctor's degrees! One of those degrees is in Anthropology. I believe part of the very curriculum to get a doctor's degree in any subject would be administrative skills!

Then add in his experience in the field, his leadership roles in the Stargate Program...including training roles. His ability to negotiate deals was brought up in a number of eps.

SGA needs to be restructure over all.

First no department heads should be going off world...that would technically include Sheppard and McKay if that were carried out.

The leader of SGA was intended as a "Hammond" type role. A supportive role but it didn't work out that way.

Wier did really good in the first season, as did the team because they were cut off from earth. After the ships came on a regular basis the series lost some of it's appeal IMO.

For me...Daniel on SGA would have been a major selling point. Sending him to replace weir would have made more sense than woosley or carter.

If tptb were serious about attracting sg-1 fans they would put either jack or daniel on SGA but that is not going to happen.

When people read fan fics...the ones I write with Jack and Daniel always get more attention than all the others.

One, TPTB should not really be focused on getting SG-1 fans to watch their own favorites star on SGA. They should be trying to get them to watch the Atlantis characters. SGA is not SG-1 v2.0! And, if you notice, I put TOP-LEVEL administration. Daniel doesn't have that experience.

And, please do specify what leadership roles Daniel has been put in that compare to a "Hammond-esque" leadership style.

Weir has brokered many UN treaties, and has proven herself capable of leading during difficult situations. Daniel's degree in Anthropology would only get him on Atlantis's elite team as lead negotiator (by the way, Teyla/Dr. Weir was supposed to fill that role). Remember, Atlantis does not have an archaeology department.

And tell me exactly how Woolsey is not qualified! And Carter has just as much leadership experience as Daniel.

RowenaR
June 11th, 2008, 04:26 PM
How did you deduce that Daniel has no administrative skills for top level administration. He has 2 doctor's degrees! One of those degrees is in Anthropology. I believe part of the very curriculum to get a doctor's degree in any subject would be administrative skills!

I have no idea how it's done in the US, but in Germany getting a doctor's degree usually is about researching and teaching, not administrating and leading. And honestly: It wouldn't make much sense incorporating an education on administrative skills into a doctorate curriculum (I don't even think there is such a thing as a doctorate curriculum in Germany... in fact, you're pretty much on your own most of the time you write your thesis), at least from a scientific point of view, because it's about research, not administrating (sorry if I'm being redundant, but reading the statement above it makes me wonder if you even actually got the point of the whole doctorate thing).

But of course: Show me something stating that doctorates in the US are something completely different from doctorates in Germany, and I'll reconsider my statement.

And, getting to the point: Having two doctorates doesn't automatically make you a good administrator. It just makes you - at least in most cases - a good scientiest. Which are, often enough, two completely different things.

Merlin1701
June 12th, 2008, 01:03 AM
RowenaR...why does a degree make you a good leader?

The character has acquired skills from his studies in anthropology and archaeology but his time within the military structure of the SGC; would that not count towards "skills" of leadership? On numerous occasions Jackson has taken on/ been given authority roles within missions and negotiations. These attributes that have been further developed through interactions with military officers and peoples from other worlds.

RowenaR
June 12th, 2008, 01:52 AM
On numerous occasions Jackson has taken on/ been given authority roles within missions and negotiations. These attributes that have been further developed through interactions with military officers and peoples from other worlds.

That may very well be, but this is due to his experience with the SGC, not due to his doctorates. Aquiring a doctorate has nearly next to nothing to do with aquiring leadership qualities. There may be other things making him a leader (although, honestly, I really don't want to see just another SG1-character as a recurring role or even part of the main cast on Atlantis... I mainly watch the show because it's or at least was supposed to be different from SG1), but just don't use the phrase "But he has two doctorates!" as an argument, because quite frankly it just isn't.

Jackie
June 12th, 2008, 07:49 AM
Wier's specialty was politics. She was a diplomat.

Daniel referred to Wier's work when drafting the alliance between the Tok'ra and Earth. Daniel drafted the alliance! There is your proof that Daniel is equal to Wier in diplomacy.

Top Level Administration is a very open to opinion term. Hammond was a top level administrator and a Major general. His expertise was a in military operations...not diplomacy. Yet, no one doubts his ability to lead or administer. All officers of the us armed forces attend special military schools and the majority go into their careers with master's equivalently degrees. Many General's (a major general) would have gone a little further in military schools and gotten the military equivalent to a doctor's degree.

If Daniel Jackson can gain 2 doctoral degrees, speak 32 languages, broker alliance treaties with the Tok'ra, lead the people of abydos in an uprising against Ra, establish relations with other races, such as the Unas, have the Asgard name a ship after him, is considered a vital part of the stargate program, then how can he NOT be qualified to lead Atlantis?

My sister just got her master's degree, she did indeed need to take some courses that would also be found in administrative majors.

Administrative courses are made to the subject they are getting the degree in. Business administrative courses would not be duplicate of a medical administrative course but some subjects, such as human resources would be. Administrative degree in politics would not require the same courses as a degree in public school administration.

Top Level administration for SGA certainly wouldn't require someone with a degree in politics. It would need a person with a degree in military strategy. Over all...Hammond would be ideal.

But, that doesn't mean someone like Daniel cannot lead the expedition and he is certainly more qualified that weir was.

Merlin1701
June 12th, 2008, 10:42 AM
oi, RowenaR...did i say "But he has two doctorates!"

check again...

do you hold some form of OI, RowenaR...did I say "But he has two doctorates!"

Check again...

Do you hold some form of negative, antagonistic feeling towards those that have studied? All that you seem to mention is that the character could not fulfil this post because he has two doctorates?

As Jackie has mentioned above the character of Daniel Jackson, ahem...DR Daniel Jackson, has a vast skill set.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 12th, 2008, 12:00 PM
Wier's specialty was politics. She was a diplomat.

Daniel referred to Wier's work when drafting the alliance between the Tok'ra and Earth. Daniel drafted the alliance! There is your proof that Daniel is equal to Wier in diplomacy.

Top Level Administration is a very open to opinion term. Hammond was a top level administrator and a Major general. His expertise was a in military operations...not diplomacy. Yet, no one doubts his ability to lead or administer. All officers of the us armed forces attend special military schools and the majority go into their careers with master's equivalently degrees. Many General's (a major general) would have gone a little further in military schools and gotten the military equivalent to a doctor's degree.

If Daniel Jackson can gain 2 doctoral degrees, speak 32 languages, broker alliance treaties with the Tok'ra, lead the people of abydos in an uprising against Ra, establish relations with other races, such as the Unas, have the Asgard name a ship after him, is considered a vital part of the stargate program, then how can he NOT be qualified to lead Atlantis?

My sister just got her master's degree, she did indeed need to take some courses that would also be found in administrative majors.

Administrative courses are made to the subject they are getting the degree in. Business administrative courses would not be duplicate of a medical administrative course but some subjects, such as human resources would be. Administrative degree in politics would not require the same courses as a degree in public school administration.

Top Level administration for SGA certainly wouldn't require someone with a degree in politics. It would need a person with a degree in military strategy. Over all...Hammond would be ideal.

But, that doesn't mean someone like Daniel cannot lead the expedition and he is certainly more qualified that weir was.

But tell me, what was Daniel again? An archaeologist, anthropologist and a linguist. Although he may have had equal skills with Dr. Weir, he does not have the political background that either Weir or Woolsey have. Furthermore, Daniel's "leading the people of abydos in an uprising against Ra, establishing relations with other races, such as the Unas, having the Asgard name a ship after him, and being a vital part of the stargate program" have nothing to do with him being qualified to lead Atlantis. He is vital why? Because he has been with it since the beginning and is first and foremost a humanitarian and possesses diplomatic skills. And yet, his brokering of treaties with the Tok'ra mean nothing. Those were in no wise similar to brokering treaties between nations. Treaties between two conflicting nations involve politics, geography, economic, and military issues. Weir has had that experience. Daniel has not. And having experience in military strategy was not needed for Weir's position, because Sumner and Sheppard filled that role. Oh, by the way, if Daniel had to reference Weir's work, then that proves that Weir, not Daniel, is the more proficient in diplomacy and politics.

jenks
June 12th, 2008, 12:42 PM
We're talking about skills needed to lead an expedition to another galaxy. A decades worth of experience in gate travel and exploration, plus dealing with the military and negotiating with alien civilizations trumps a political background on Earth any day of the week. End of.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 12th, 2008, 01:39 PM
We're talking about skills needed to lead an expedition to another galaxy. A decades worth of experience in gate travel and exploration, plus dealing with the military and negotiating with alien civilizations trumps a political background on Earth any day of the week. End of.

As you said, skills needed to lead an expedition. As well, although Weir did not have experience with alien civilizations, she did deal with the military (opposing it at first even).

jenks
June 12th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Weir had none of the skills needed to lead an expedition to another galaxy, she had zero experience with anything even close to it. She's a diplomat, so her only potential contribution would be dealing with alien civilizations, something that Daniel is much more experienced in anyway. In every other respect Daniel is more qualified.

Atlantis1
June 12th, 2008, 05:34 PM
Daniel opened the Gate, played a leadership role in Abydos, has more degrees than McKay, (smarter too). Has 14 years plus of off world experience, which includes negotiations, POW, voicing his opinion against Jacks' and BEING right.

With all the abilities they have given Daniel it makes the character look over qualifitied. He becomes someone that is not likely to be found in realitity.

Also, in the movie he wore the necklace with the Ra symbol. This set him up as someone important in the eyes of the people of Abydos. He was given the daughter of the leader for a wife. These were a great part of what gave Daniel the ability to get them to rise up against Ra.

majorsal
June 12th, 2008, 05:51 PM
daniel shouldn't lead atlantis. he goes too much with his feelings instead of his brain. nice in one way, but not when this person is controlling your future and has your life in his hands.



sally :)

Ltcolshepjumper
June 12th, 2008, 06:49 PM
Weir had none of the skills needed to lead an expedition to another galaxy, she had zero experience with anything even close to it. She's a diplomat, so her only potential contribution would be dealing with alien civilizations, something that Daniel is much more experienced in anyway. In every other respect Daniel is more qualified.

Except that Daniel has never brokered a real treaty. Show me a point where Daniel has taken on a true leadership position- show me where he has been responsible for the lives of SGC personnel. If you ask the same thing about weir, I will point you to Lost City and New Order. Why? Because that's where Weir proved herself as a capable leader. Weir, as a diplomat, would be trained not to know the ends and outs of every alien civilization, but to analyze the problems and conflicts, as well as the conflicting parties, and to act as a mediator. Also, with an expedition to another galaxy, Daniel's experience doesn't go that far. Why? Because the Pegasus galaxy operates differently from the Milky Way Galaxy. I agree that Daniel, if he went, should have a prominent position, but he has not proven himself to be a leader (Daniel's "leadership" on Abydos does not count). The very fact that Weir was chosen to replace Hammond is a testament to her capacity for leadership.

jenks
June 12th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Except that Daniel has never brokered a real treaty.

So?


Show me a point where Daniel has taken on a true leadership position- show me where he has been responsible for the lives of SGC personnel.

He lead the Abydonians, that's leadership, them not being SGC personnel makes no difference. But while we're on the subject, SGC personnel have a hell of a lot more respect for Daniel than they do for Weir.


If you ask the same thing about weir, I will point you to Lost City and New Order. Why? Because that's where Weir proved herself as a capable leader.

No she never. In Lost City the best she did was offer her opinion to the US president, and in New Order she wouldn't even allow a mission to contact the Asgard until Carter virtually threatened not to help in the research into the cargo ship.


Weir, as a diplomat, would be trained not to know the ends and outs of every alien civilization, but to analyze the problems and conflicts, as well as the conflicting parties, and to act as a mediator.

What has any of this got to do with leading an expedition to another galaxy? Any diplomatic skills are negligible compared to the wealth of knowledge and experience that Daniel has in other, more important areas. Considering the job we're talking about diplomatic skills are not even worth mentioning, I mean Daniel had more experience in this field that Jack or Hammond and they were leaders of the SGC!


Also, with an expedition to another galaxy, Daniel's experience doesn't go that far. Why? Because the Pegasus galaxy operates differently from the Milky Way Galaxy.


There's no real difference, none that would negate his VASTLY superior experience in off world travel and exploration.


I agree that Daniel, if he went, should have a prominent position, but he has not proven himself to be a leader (Daniel's "leadership" on Abydos does not count).

Yes it does.



The very fact that Weir was chosen to replace Hammond is a testament to her capacity for leadership.

No it isn't, all it shows is how worried Hayes was about public opinion of the Stargate program when it goes public.

the fifth man
June 12th, 2008, 07:59 PM
I think Daniel would make a fine leader for Atlantis. But, I think enough changes have been made in this show. They need to stick with Woolsey.

zoislk
June 13th, 2008, 05:00 AM
it won 't be same without the Ori :(

You're right ...

IT WOULD BE BETTER!! ;)


daniel shouldn't lead atlantis. he goes too much with his feelings instead of his brain. nice in one way, but not when this person is controlling your future and has your life in his hands.



sally :)


That's the only aspect where Daniel isn't qualified more than virtually anyone else (yes, including Weir)... but it's a big enough flaw that, you're right, he shouldn't lead the expedition. Weir was the right choice to start ... Sam wasn't at the my top list for her replacement. The only character that was left at that point was Daniel, but he didn't get it. I like Picardo as an actor, and I'll be interested to see how he does this season ... he wasn't developed enough before the last change to take over, and I don't think he's developed enough yet as it is. They might have been better off just finding someone completely new (like they should have done last year)

Ltcolshepjumper
June 13th, 2008, 05:06 AM
He lead the Abydonians, that's leadership, them not being SGC personnel makes no difference. But while we're on the subject, SGC personnel have a hell of a lot more respect for Daniel than they do for Weir.

That is only because he's been there longer. And, in fact, I would not say that they respect Weir less. On the contrary, they are merely familiar with Daniel's contributions.

And leading a rebellion does not give you leadership experience in that sense. How can it? All Daniel did was to give them the incentive to rebel. That does not equate to either military or political leadership. And them being SGC personnel, or anyone in the SGC, does matter, because whenyou are considering the level of experience a potential leader of an expedition to another galaxy, I highly doubt that "leader of an offworld rebellion" is going to matter much.


No she never. In Lost City the best she did was offer her opinion to the US president, and in New Order she wouldn't even allow a mission to contact the Asgard until Carter virtually threatened not to help in the research into the cargo ship.

Ok? Given the method of reaching the Asgard, Weir's decision was the right one. Why would you risk losing the entire flagship team in order to try to save Oneill? The stasis pod would have kept him alive for many years. All they had to do was wait for the Asgard. The bigger issue at the time was the Goauld.

She did not simply offer her opinion. At first she was uncomfortable, because she had never been exposed to the Stargate Program. But, after that, she made her own decisions. Especially in New Order.


What has any of this got to do with leading an expedition to another galaxy? Any diplomatic skills are negligible compared to the wealth of knowledge and experience that Daniel has in other, more important areas. Considering the job we're talking about diplomatic skills are not even worth mentioning, I mean Daniel had more experience in this field that Jack or Hammond and they were leaders of the SGC!

list some of those "other, more important areas". Because, if I recall, Daniel's wealth of Ancient and historical knowledge and offworld experience have absolutely nothing to do with leading a base.


There's no real difference, none that would negate his VASTLY superior experience in off world travel and exploration.

Tell me again where Daniel has had to make decisions that affect the lives of those under him. Besides Abydos.


Yes it does.




No it isn't, all it shows is how worried Hayes was about public opinion of the Stargate program when it goes public.

If that's the case, why didn't he just pick Daniel? Or Carter? My point is, regardless of the core reason for removing Hammond, Hayes picked the most qualified civilian to replace him. Remember, the SGC was still a military base.

jenks
June 13th, 2008, 09:29 AM
And leading a rebellion does not give you leadership experience in that sense. How can it? All Daniel did was to give them the incentive to rebel. That does not equate to either military or political leadership. And them being SGC personnel, or anyone in the SGC, does matter, because whenyou are considering the level of experience a potential leader of an expedition to another galaxy, I highly doubt that "leader of an offworld rebellion" is going to matter much.

Then by your criteria Weir has no leadership experience either.


Ok? Given the method of reaching the Asgard, Weir's decision was the right one. Why would you risk losing the entire flagship team in order to try to save Oneill? The stasis pod would have kept him alive for many years. All they had to do was wait for the Asgard. The bigger issue at the time was the Goauld.

Clearly it wasn't.


She did not simply offer her opinion. At first she was uncomfortable, because she had never been exposed to the Stargate Program. But, after that, she made her own decisions. Especially in New Order.

In Lost City all she did was offer her opinion and let the president make the call, in New Order she didn't really have many decisions to make, other than whether to let Carter take the cargo ship, and she made the wrong one until Carter blackmailed her.


list some of those "other, more important areas". Because, if I recall, Daniel's wealth of Ancient and historical knowledge and offworld experience have absolutely nothing to do with leading a base.

Who said anything about leading a base? The mission was to lead an expedition to another galaxy, they had no idea at the time they'd be leading a base, but even if they did I don't see your point, Weir has zero experience in leading a base either other than sitting behind a desk at the SGC doing next to nothing for a few weeks. Daniels years of experience in gate travel and exploration, not to mention him being Earths foremost expert on the Ancients are what make him so qualified, since that's exactly what the missions is about. I still don't see how you think Weir is anywhere near qualified to lead an expedition, her experience is with politics, it's like arguing that Condoleezza Rice is qualified to lead a trek into the Amazon or something...


Tell me again where Daniel has had to make decisions that affect the lives of those under him. Besides Abydos.

Under him? Never, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made the lives of others his responsibility countless times in the past.


If that's the case, why didn't he just pick Daniel? Or Carter? My point is, regardless of the core reason for removing Hammond, Hayes picked the most qualified civilian to replace him. Remember, the SGC was still a military base.

No he never, he picked the civilian that would get the most favourable reaction should the stargate program go public. Weir was in no way qualified to lead the SGC, and said as much herself. Daniel wasn't picked because to the public and the international community he is a nobody, and Carter is military so that would be no good.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 13th, 2008, 11:24 AM
I still do not get how Daniel is qualified to lead an expedition or a base. His area of expertise, and his "vastly superior knowledge" of offworld travel do not necessarily qualify him to lead an expedition. Leaders do not have to know it all. They knew that it would probably be a one-way trip. In that case, why would you put a regular civilian (or doctor, whatever) in charge of an entire group of people, civilian and military? Weir had experience in dealing with the military, perhaps longer than Daniel. Daniel would have been a valuable asset, but I wouldn't necessarily trust him with the lives of over 100 people. If Weir is not qualified to lead, then neither is Daniel.

jenks
June 13th, 2008, 11:43 AM
I never really said Daniel is qualified to lead the expedition, just a hell of a lot more qualified than Weir ever was. Weir has had next to no experience with the military other than her short time as a friendly face of the SGC, Daniel knows how they work and has worked with them for over a decade. Neither are proven leaders, so Daniels expertise blows anything Weir has out of the water. All she has is her diplomatic background which counts for next to nothing when leading an expedition to another galaxy, Daniel is an experienced explorer he knows the score, she has no idea what she's doing.

Sprinkles
June 13th, 2008, 11:47 AM
Daniel has in the past shown many times that he is able to be a capable leader.

At least one good example is Evolution pt 1 & 2 (season 7) Daniel protected, guided and comforted Bill Lee through out their capture and torture at the hands of the Endoran rebels. I am sure (although I need to find the quote) both he and Sam were in charge of their respective departments (administration), which was expanded to Daniel being in charge of military and civilian personnel on off world archealogical digs (mentioned in The First Ones and a Matter of Time) in charge of humanitarian evacuation of other planets (Avenger 2.0).

Daniels vast 10 year experience as being part of the Stargate programme is coloured with many specific examples. Thats also why it is easier to give examples for Weir after she became the leader of Atlantis, she was able to prove she was a leader because she was put in a position show what kind of leader she could be. :)

Ltcolshepjumper
June 13th, 2008, 11:59 AM
I never really said Daniel is qualified to lead the expedition, just a hell of a lot more qualified than Weir ever was. Weir has had next to no experience with the military other than her short time as a friendly face of the SGC, Daniel knows how they work and has worked with them for over a decade. Neither are proven leaders, so Daniels expertise blows anything Weir has out of the water. All she has is her diplomatic background which counts for next to nothing when leading an expedition to another galaxy, Daniel is an experienced explorer he knows the score, she has no idea what she's doing.

You know what? We really have no idea how the expedition's leadership would have worked out, had the city not been submerged and if they had not encountered the Wraith. Daniel is not more qualified to lead the base than Weir. He is probably more qualified than most to go to Atlantis, but both of their experiences do not involve leadership in that sense. I'm sure Weir had some experiences with the military, as she spent a great deal of time lobbying against military funding. I do think that neither Weir nor Daniel are qualified to command military personnel, simply being that they do not have military experience. Since Sumner was sent along with them, it's possible that he would have commanded the military. And, either way, Daniel would never have been chosen as the leader of the base, because he did not have any political experience (even though it really makes no difference in another galaxy, the leaders in today's world are either military or political). Daniel definitely would have been an adviser to whoever was in charge (like he was to Weir in New Order).

Also, you must remember. Leaders always begin small. The primary reason Daniel is not qualified is because he has no credentials that would point to that. The Expedition was to be a command unto itself. It wasn't like the Alpha or gamma site, where the primary focus of one was military and the other scientific research.

One more thing. I think the core of this debate, judging from the posts, is deciding which is more qualified to command the military aspects (which include offworld travel). First and foremost, Atlantis's leadership should have been split between military and civilian. As well, the majority of teams have zero civilians or scientists. If you notice, most are completely military with no medical, scientific, or diplomatic skills. In that regard, it really doesn't matter who controls the offworld travel, or who has that experience. Both weir and daniel are equally qualified to command the civilian aspects. Both are exceptionally good at administration. Daniel may have more offworld experience, but in Atlantis's case, what they really needed was a military comamnder who had that experience (preferably a full-bird colonel with experience in leadign a team, someone more in line with Oneill that Sam, because Carter, unfortunately, had more experience over the science department than the military one, as well as taking orders more than giving them).

jenks
June 13th, 2008, 12:04 PM
You know what? We really have no idea how the expedition's leadership would have worked out, had the city not been submerged and if they had not encountered the Wraith. Daniel is not more qualified to lead the base than Weir. He is probably more qualified than most to go to Atlantis, but both of their experiences do not involve leadership in that sense. I'm sure Weir had some experiences with the military, as she spent a great deal of time lobbying against military funding. I do think that neither Weir nor Daniel are qualified to command military personnel, simply being that they do not have military experience. Since Sumner was sent along with them, it's possible that he would have commanded the military. And, either way, Daniel would never have been chosen as the leader of the base, because he did not have any political experience (even though it really makes no difference in another galaxy, the leaders in today's world are either military or political). Daniel definitely would have been an adviser to whoever was in charge (like he was to Weir in New Order).


So you're saying Daniels experience in gate travel and off world exploration counts for nothing when leading an expedition off world on a mission of exploration?

Ltcolshepjumper
June 13th, 2008, 12:15 PM
So you're saying Daniels experience in gate travel and off world exploration counts for nothing when leading an expedition off world on a mission of exploration?

read the edited sections. Also, it's become more than exploration, and unfortunately, most of it is not peaceful. Atlantis has more concurrent enemies than SG-1 has ever had- Hybrids, Wraith, rogue Asurans, rogue genii, and a new alien race. I wouldn't trust Daniel (and frankly not Dr. Weir or Sheppard either) with handling military situations (Carter has experience, but she's no Oneill if you know what I mean). I think they are pretty equal, but for different reasons. I believe Weir has more diplomatic experience, but I will not agrue that Daniel has more offworld and exploration experience. Basically, Daniel has just been exposed to it more. I do believe Daniel was needed though. His knowledge of Ancient culture and his experiences would have helped. It seems as though Daniel's role was split between Weir and Teyla. Weir as a civilian diplomat and Teyla as the one who could develop relationships between the expedition and the offworld humans.

jenks
June 13th, 2008, 01:30 PM
read the edited sections. Also, it's become more than exploration, and unfortunately, most of it is not peaceful. Atlantis has more concurrent enemies than SG-1 has ever had- Hybrids, Wraith, rogue Asurans, rogue genii, and a new alien race. I wouldn't trust Daniel (and frankly not Dr. Weir or Sheppard either) with handling military situations (Carter has experience, but she's no Oneill if you know what I mean). I think they are pretty equal, but for different reasons. I believe Weir has more diplomatic experience, but I will not agrue that Daniel has more offworld and exploration experience. Basically, Daniel has just been exposed to it more. I do believe Daniel was needed though. His knowledge of Ancient culture and his experiences would have helped. It seems as though Daniel's role was split between Weir and Teyla. Weir as a civilian diplomat and Teyla as the one who could develop relationships between the expedition and the offworld humans.

My point is that diplomatic experience counts for next to nothing when choosing a leader of an expedition compared to experience in vastly more important fields like the ones Daniel has experience in. I don't see how a career in politics on Earth can be compared to a decades worth of experience working with the military exploring other planets, not to mention being the expert on the Ancients, not when the very position we're discussing is a missions to explore the city of the Ancients through the Stargate.

Ltcolshepjumper
June 13th, 2008, 04:24 PM
My point is that diplomatic experience counts for next to nothing when choosing a leader of an expedition compared to experience in vastly more important fields like the ones Daniel has experience in. I don't see how a career in politics on Earth can be compared to a decades worth of experience working with the military exploring other planets, not to mention being the expert on the Ancients, not when the very position we're discussing is a missions to explore the city of the Ancients through the Stargate.

I doubt Weir was chosen because they thought she would orchestrate offworld missions well. I believe she was chosen because she was a good administrator, as well as had some political, and more importantly, diplomatic skills. How that plays into leading an expedition- negotiating. Now, Daniel does have much more offworld experience, with which he could greatly help establish offworld relations, being a linguist and anthropologist. However, Daniel would really complement Weir's skills. Now Daniel's offworld experience does not necessarily mean that he would be the leader. However, I think if Daniel had gone, he definitely should have been placed in charge of offworld exploration, along with a military officer. Daniel necessarily would not have to be the leader. His experience, or Weir's lack of experience, would not matter if the chain of command were set up the way it should have been.

Atlantis1
June 13th, 2008, 05:00 PM
McKay knows more about the pegasus galaxy and the science involved then Daniel. They already have a translation program for wraith and have slowly build an understanding of Wraith biology.
As we know though, even McKay is not leadership material. SGA has a good cast and really doesn't need Daniel added to it. It doesn't make any sense to have him there for anymore then a visit. Atlantis needs a leader with understanding of both military and civilian needs to lead the city. Daniel while working with the military is by no means someone who has enough military experience. I would think Daniel would rather do science then lead Atlantis.

RowenaR
June 15th, 2008, 07:13 AM
I would think Daniel would rather do science then lead Atlantis.

Exactly. Chosing someone like Daniel to lead the city would mean a serious waste of scientific manpower. Types like Daniel see paperwork and decision-making as irritating side-issues, but they are actually the things that administrating and leading are mostly composed of. The fact that some can do it doesn't mean he's good at or wants to do it.

Sprinkles
June 15th, 2008, 08:02 AM
Exactly. Chosing someone like Daniel to lead the city would mean a serious waste of scientific manpower. Types like Daniel see paperwork and decision-making as irritating side-issues, but they are actually the things that administrating and leading are mostly composed of. The fact that some can do it doesn't mean he's good at or wants to do it.

I've been an administrator for a long time (not of course dealing with alien citys in other galaxy's ;)) and really if Jack can do it (don't read my Memo's man) Daniel can do it standing on his head.

I http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/Sprinkles-bit/Smilies/heart.gif :jack:

Whether he would want to is a good question...in my opinion No he wouldn't. Personally I would much rather see him traveling through the gate on adventures. :)

RowenaR
June 15th, 2008, 08:14 AM
I've been an administrator for a long time (not of course dealing with alien citys in other galaxy's ;)) and really if Jack can do it (don't read my Memo's man) Daniel can do it standing on his head.

Personally, I think people like Jack would need some faceless minion to work through all their tedious paperwork ;) (believe me, I work in politics, and my boss is a brilliant politician... but a terrible boss and administrator. If there wasn't her personal assistant... I shudder at this thought ;))


Whether he would want to is a good question...in my opinion No he wouldn't.

I agree. He just doesn't seem to be the type who is thrilled by the thought of endless meetings, huge amounts of paperwork, a bazillion of complaints from every possible direction... maybe he could do it, but, as I said, it would be a waste of his talents.

Sp!der
June 16th, 2008, 04:13 AM
Well... I don't know I would love Shanks being in Atlantis because he is my fav but I don't know if he would be any good as a commander (like sam which did not work well) so he can stay in Atlantis forever, but not in command !!! sorry danny:daniel: