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PG15
June 4th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Writer: Carl Binder
Director: ?

---

Ok, some details on 1 of the remaining 2 episodes that we know nothing about:


Help spin Carl’s story for episode 17 (or maybe 18?). A nice callback to some SG-1 tech, the return of that guest star will have the boards abuzz, and Carl searches for an appropriately grisly punishment.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/june-4-2008-new-studies-suggest-young-people-living-longer-than-old-people/

jelgate
June 4th, 2008, 09:06 PM
And PG15's plan for GW domination continue.

Mitchell82
June 4th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Writer: Carl Binder
Director: ?

---

Ok, some details on 1 of the remaining 2 episodes that we know nothing about:



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/june-4-2008-new-studies-suggest-young-people-living-longer-than-old-people/
"Return of a guest star will have the boards abuzz" Hmm must be Carson, Carter, Laden or *prays not* Lucius.

Killdeer
June 4th, 2008, 10:12 PM
"Return of a guest star will have the boards abuzz" Hmm must be Carson, Carter, Laden or *prays not* Lucius.

Probably Carter - he said they were wanting to work her into one more episode toward the end of the season. We already know Carson's in five episodes, at least three of which are before this one, so I doubt it's him. Laden probably wouldn't cause much of a buzz (I'm guessing), and I'll be highly surprised if we ever see Lucius again.

If it's not Carter though, it could be....

1) Larrin - that would cause a buzz. :D Maybe not a good one - LOL!(I like Larrin btw)
2) Kolya!!! Ok, so I don't have any idea how they could bring him back, but I'd love to see it. It would actually be easier to bring Kolya back than Carson (IMO at least).
3) Daniel - David Hewlett said in his blog that he loved working with Michael and was begging Joe Mallozzi to bring him back, so...it might be a possibility.
4) Fran? Umm - no real good reason - just a thought. I don't know what's going to happen in GitM.
5) Michael! Can't believe I didn't think of this earlier! Never mind-I read the Prodigal thread. ;)

TBA
June 4th, 2008, 10:47 PM
I know I shouldn't say this, but how about a... :ford:

GoSpikey
June 5th, 2008, 03:32 AM
Michael = "Prodigal"

:P :P :P

See my post on that board! *g*

naamiaiset
June 5th, 2008, 09:55 AM
my first thought was daniel also, but it could be carter.

Jumper_One
June 5th, 2008, 12:19 PM
Writer: Carl Binder
Director: ?

---

Ok, some details on 1 of the remaining 2 episodes that we know nothing about:



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/june-4-2008-new-studies-suggest-young-people-living-longer-than-old-people/

whoa a guest star will have the boards abuzz? I agree with everyone else, it's most likely Sam :D

TBA
June 5th, 2008, 12:20 PM
I'm not buzzing by a Sam appearance. Now Anise, that's quite a buzzing appearance :D

g.o.d
June 5th, 2008, 12:24 PM
guest star and punishment?? Lucius

PG15
June 5th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Update:


And, speaking of casting, we’re looking into the availability of the pallid one for Alan’s eppy, and this potential Stargate newbie for Carl’s eppy (which has taken a very dark turn). She’s super!

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/june-5-2008-corn-dog-wins-best-in-show/

GoSpikey
June 9th, 2008, 01:35 PM
A dark Todd episode, or what are they saying? :confused:

PG15
June 12th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Update:


Carl put out a beat sheet for his episode and, after some discussion, finalized the beats - and a title: Identity.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/june-12-2008-remains-of-professional-golfer-found-on-the-moon/

PG15
June 13th, 2008, 04:54 PM
A mention:


Well, I can honestly say I have never looked forward to a Friday the 13th like I did this one. It was our last day of shooting before the month-long hiatus- still, the mood was fairly subdued on our side of the production offices. [...] Carl and Alan were working on their outlines.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/june-13-2008-grass-roots-movement-killed-after-being-sprayed-with-glyphosate/

PG15
July 21st, 2008, 04:30 PM
Annnd we're back! With a few pics:

An Axe (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dsc09571.jpg)
James Robbins shows off his creation for this episode (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dsc09564.jpg)
James Robbins asking for a pay raise (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dsc09562.jpg)
Pay raise rejected. James Robbins must shave with his creation as punishment (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dsc09565.jpg)

All from: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/july-21-2008-special-guest-bloggers-and-office-happenings/

naamiaiset
July 21st, 2008, 05:52 PM
headsman's axe? could be intriguing.

and PG, you need to have this and the "infection" thread titles changed to 5x17 and 18 now. ;)

The TARDIS
July 21st, 2008, 07:32 PM
headsman's axe? could be intriguing.

and PG, you need to have this and the "infection" thread titles changed to 5x17 and 18 now. ;)

What? PG's slacking?

LIES!!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE LIES!!! :P

Killdeer
July 21st, 2008, 08:14 PM
Updating my guesses about the special guest star....


Probably Carter -<snip>If it's not Carter though, it could be.... No. Sounds like Carter's second episode, if it happens, will be the season finale.

1) Larrin - No - JM said Larrin isn't coming back this season.
2) Kolya!!! - No - see Remnants spoilers.
3) Daniel - Still a possibility I suppose, and my only real guess left.
4) Fran? - I doubt it, but possible, depending on GitM.
5) Michael! - No - see Prodigal spoilers

Now that we know a little more, who do you all think it might be?

naamiaiset
July 21st, 2008, 08:34 PM
What? PG's slacking?

LIES!!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE LIES!!! :P
it's unthinkable! :eek:


3) Daniel - Still a possibility I suppose, and my only real guess left.

Now that we know a little more, who do you all think it might be?

Help spin Carl’s story for episode 17 (or maybe 18?). A nice callback to some SG-1 tech, the return of that guest star will have the boards abuzz, and Carl searches for an appropriately grisly punishment.
I think daniel also. of the guest stars so far, he's the one that'd create the most "buzz".

The TARDIS
July 21st, 2008, 08:35 PM
Now that we know a little more, who do you all think it might be?

JM said we could be seeing Richard Kind popping back for another episode as Lucius Lavin. I pray to the Lord he was joking, but...

If this episode's name changes to Irredeemable, then we know for certain we're screwed :mckay:

naamiaiset
July 21st, 2008, 08:39 PM
If this episode's name changes to Irredeemable, then we know for certain we're screwed :mckay:
:lol:

Killdeer
July 21st, 2008, 08:45 PM
I think daniel also. of the guest stars so far, he's the one that'd create the most "buzz".

Yeah - I can't think of any other guest star that would create "buzz" who hasn't already been ruled out in some way. But it will probably turn out to be someone I never thought of. ;)


JM said we could be seeing Richard Kind popping back for another episode as Lucius Lavin. I pray to the Lord he was joking, but...

You're kidding. :S I must have missed that one.

The TARDIS
July 21st, 2008, 08:46 PM
You're kidding. :S I must have missed that one.

In JM's blog. It was an answer to a query about Kolya's return. JM responded he'd talked to both Davey and Kind about future appearances over the past week. I'm certain if we ask real nicely, PG 15 will go dig it out for us :P

Unless you'd like to pretend JM never said that...

Nevermind... found it!


MaryA writes: “I was wondering if you would be so willing as to confirm or deny Acastas Kolya’s reappearance in Season 5?”

Answer: Funny you should mention Kolya. I had a conversation with Robert Davi last week (coincidentally, a day after I spoke to Richard Kind, aka Lucius, concerning a chocolate article he came across recently). Although there are no stories in the works for either character - hey, this is scifi. Anything is possible.
Feb 5, 2008 (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/february-5-2008-extra-extra-read-all-about-it/)

naamiaiset
July 21st, 2008, 08:51 PM
Yeah - I can't think of any other guest star that would create "buzz" who hasn't already been ruled out in some way. But it will probably turn out to be someone I never thought of. ;)
is beckett a possibility? I know he has five episodes in place (one we don't know yet, if I'm right), and maybe he isn't considered a guest star, but people do buzz about him.

Killdeer
July 21st, 2008, 08:52 PM
Unless you'd like to pretend JM never said that...

Yeah - I think I'll go with that option actually.:S (drat)

Edit: Never mind - I see you already found it. :D Well - that doesn't look so bad. Except - we know Robert Davi is going to appear in Remnants, so....:S

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 08:54 PM
I'm going with Killdeer. Whatever episode he is in will be the lowpoint of the season

Killdeer
July 21st, 2008, 08:57 PM
is beckett a possibility? I know he has five episodes in place (one we don't know yet, if I'm right), and maybe he isn't considered a guest star, but people do buzz about him.

I don't think so. Maybe. But Beckett was in The Seed, he's going to be in Whispers and Outsiders...what's the one I'm not thinking of? He does have a couple more episodes to get in the five that he's supposed to be in this season, but the fans already know he's going to be around - we just don't know precisely when. I don't think it would cause the buzz that this seems to be referring to. I could be wrong though. *shrugs*

naamiaiset
July 21st, 2008, 09:08 PM
well...there's todd. we know 4 of his 5 episodes, but what you said about beckett can apply here also I suppose.

I'm sticking with daniel.

Lythisrose
July 21st, 2008, 09:31 PM
Well maybe Lucius gets his head chopped off with that big axe!
I can dream...

TBA
July 22nd, 2008, 05:58 AM
Guest star Lucius + big axe + punishment = boards abuzz. Imo.

PG15
July 22nd, 2008, 05:28 PM
Give me a break, guys! I've been busy with Avatar: The Last Airbender the last 10 days. :p

But FYI, I did come into this thread just now with the intention to change the thread title. Really. ;)

naamiaiset
July 22nd, 2008, 06:22 PM
But FYI, I did come into this thread just now with the intention to change the thread title. Really. ;)
likely story. :rolleyes: :p

Killdeer
July 22nd, 2008, 06:28 PM
I just noticed that GW has the quote in the first post of this thread listed under Prodigal. Is it possible that it might be referring to that episode? :confused: Carl Binder is writing both....

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/514.shtml

PG15
July 22nd, 2008, 07:33 PM
I don't think so...I mean, the sentence structure of that quote pretty much ensures that this is the 17th episode and not The Prodigal.

Me thinks Gateworld is wrong. ;)

GoSpikey
July 23rd, 2008, 08:11 AM
:eek: Blasphemy!

PG15
July 23rd, 2008, 04:29 PM
A mention:


Alan finished his rewrite of Infection, Martin is prepping Brain Storm, Carl is poised to prep Identity, and Paul has broken ground on #20. With less than two months to go, it looks like it’s going to be a mad dash to the finish line.



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/july-23-2008-burgers-then-back-on-the-program-then-remnants-day-2/

GoSpikey
July 24th, 2008, 10:17 AM
Way to go, PG... :mckay:

Reiko
July 24th, 2008, 10:22 AM
» My bet is on Carson - unless he's in both of the two-part finale. (By the way - maybe PG can answer this for me - Is the three parter's first two parts at the end of S5 like it was in S1?)

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 10:27 AM
JM said we could be seeing Richard Kind popping back for another episode as Lucius Lavin. I pray to the Lord he was joking, but...

If this episode's name changes to Irredeemable, then we know for certain we're screwed :mckay:

Well I don't mind Lucius that much but don't really want to see him back unless it leads to his demise at Michael's hand.;)

Reiko
July 24th, 2008, 10:27 AM
» Or, if Lucius marries Keller and they ride away into the sunset :cool:

Mitchell82
July 24th, 2008, 10:29 AM
» Or, if Lucius marries Keller and they ride away into the sunset :cool:

:lol: I like Keller though and wouldn't wish that upon her.

PG15
July 24th, 2008, 11:30 AM
Way to go, PG... :mckay:

I try. :D


» My bet is on Carson - unless he's in both of the two-part finale. (By the way - maybe PG can answer this for me - Is the three parter's first two parts at the end of S5 like it was in S1?)

I don't think so. At least, I don't think Vegas and the 100th episode are as closely related as the 2 first parts of The Siege. We'll just have to wait and see.

GoSpikey
July 25th, 2008, 05:23 AM
I try. :D

I noticed. :mckay:


:P

Ltcolshepjumper
July 25th, 2008, 05:55 PM
I try. :D



I don't think so. At least, I don't think Vegas and the 100th episode are as closely related as the 2 first parts of The Siege. We'll just have to wait and see.

I think the two are related, but in the same way Kindred pt 2 was related to The Last Man.

PG15
July 27th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Yeah, that sounds about right.

Meanwhile...


[Jewel Staite] continued, saying she just read another script where her character ends up being kidnapped in the woods. [...]

http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/07/26/stargate-atlantis-panel-comic-con-2008/


From IO9's wraithfodder: What was the most difficult episode to film in season 5 so far?

Jewel Staite: I just read another one that Carl wrote, and again I'm kidnapped in the woods.


http://io9.com/5029546/the-crew-of-stargate-atlantis-answers-your-questions

naamiaiset
July 27th, 2008, 04:11 PM
a keller episode? there went my interest. I've tried to like keller, it hasn't worked.

GoSpikey
July 27th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Wait, did Carl write Tracker? Cos that's her in the woods, right? :S

Jumper_One
July 27th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Wait, did Carl write Tracker? Cos that's her in the woods, right? :S

yup but she wasn't talking about Tracker

PG15
July 27th, 2008, 04:22 PM
Yeah, Carl likes the woods. ;)

GoSpikey
July 27th, 2008, 04:33 PM
So she's had like 5 eps, and in 3 of them she gets lost in the forest?

Someone should put a bell around her neck! :o

naamiaiset
July 27th, 2008, 04:39 PM
So she's had like 5 eps, and in 3 of them she gets lost in the forest?

Someone should put a bell around her neck! :o
or just leave her in the woods. ;)

The TARDIS
July 27th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Yeah, Carl likes the woods. ;)

Ba-dum-bum-CRASH!!!

:P

GoSpikey
July 28th, 2008, 02:08 AM
Leave her in the wo-

:lol: :indeed:

Rodney can go look her up there. :D

Infinatus
July 28th, 2008, 12:41 PM
The one good thing about Keller being kidnapped in the woods yet again is that the guest star which will "have the boards abuzz" will probably not be Lucius, since kidnapping doesn't really seem like his MO. Unless Keller has come to worship him. :P

GoSpikey
July 28th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Maybe Todd wants to have something young for a change... As food. :P

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2008, 03:29 PM
a keller episode? there went my interest. I've tried to like keller, it hasn't worked.

She has alot this year. Not a bad thing IMO. But hey alot of people think my mind is clouded I even liked SG-1's Emancipation.

GoSpikey
July 28th, 2008, 03:33 PM
The dress... Hilarious! :lol:

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2008, 04:04 PM
The dress... Hilarious! :lol:

:indeed: The fight is priceless too not to mention my favorite scene.
Carter: So do you think this new Anesthesia will be a new miracle drug on Earth?
Daniel: Well if it is I bet someone else will get the credit, and we can never say where it came from.
Jack: Damn! I guess I'll have to cancel that Oprah interview.
Teal'c: What is an Oprah?

GoSpikey
July 28th, 2008, 04:17 PM
:lol:

Infinatus
July 30th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Maybe Todd wants to have something young for a change... As food. :P

Doesn't really explain why she'd be in the woods though. She'd be on a Hive Ship or in a Wraith lab. :P

wheresmyfroggy
July 30th, 2008, 07:30 PM
My first instinct was Teal'c, with the returning Earth tech being Zats perhaps?

But upon further reflection, I'm thinking it's Ford now. With Kidnapped Keller making a return, it sounds like the guest might be doing the kidnapping? Maybe Ford's pissed about being left behind (or still tripped out on enzyme).

Infinatus
July 30th, 2008, 07:35 PM
I thought that too after I heard that Keller being kidnapped might be an aspect of the episode. That combined with "a guest star that will have the boards abuzz" would certainly work for a possible Ford appearance, since not only would it be a surprise but Ford would probably need medical attention being on the enzyme that long. But of course being on the enzyme he wouldn't think to just let his old buddies take him back to Atlantis.

naamiaiset
July 31st, 2008, 01:29 AM
My first instinct was Teal'c, with the returning Earth tech being Zats perhaps?

But upon further reflection, I'm thinking it's Ford now. With Kidnapped Keller making a return, it sounds like the guest might be doing the kidnapping? Maybe Ford's pissed about being left behind (or still tripped out on enzyme).

I thought that too after I heard that Keller being kidnapped might be an aspect of the episode. That combined with "a guest star that will have the boards abuzz" would certainly work for a possible Ford appearance, since not only would it be a surprise but Ford would probably need medical attention being on the enzyme that long. But of course being on the enzyme he wouldn't think to just let his old buddies take him back to Atlantis.
that could be possible, except, joe's said "there's no plans to revisit the ford storyline this season."

SGFerrit
July 31st, 2008, 03:04 AM
Was that not said before this episode was spun?

wheresmyfroggy
July 31st, 2008, 05:50 AM
that could be possible, except, joe's said "there's no plans to revisit the ford storyline this season."

Well, he appeared in Search and Rescue. I myself consider that a revisiting of the storyline, however slight. And not that I know Rainbow Sun Franks personally, but why would an actor agree to reappear for, like, 2 seconds after being snubbed for 3 years without knowing a bigger appearance was in store later in the season? Maybe the writers knew they were wanting him for later in the season, and asked him to make the cameo with the condition of his return in this ep?

Or maybe this is just wishful thinking (probably... :mckay:)

naamiaiset
July 31st, 2008, 06:19 AM
Was that not said before this episode was spun?
yes, but I still doubt he'll be back.


Well, he appeared in Search and Rescue. I myself consider that a revisiting of the storyline, however slight. And not that I know Rainbow Sun Franks personally, but why would an actor agree to reappear for, like, 2 seconds after being snubbed for 3 years without knowing a bigger appearance was in store later in the season? Maybe the writers knew they were wanting him for later in the season, and asked him to make the cameo with the condition of his return in this ep?

Or maybe this is just wishful thinking (probably... :mckay:)
I'm not a ford fanatic, so it won't matter to me if he shows up again. why bring him back after three years though? I'd think if they were going to reintroduce ford (not counting a two second cameo), they would've done so some time ago.

jelgate
July 31st, 2008, 07:47 AM
Well, he appeared in Search and Rescue. I myself consider that a revisiting of the storyline, however slight. And not that I know Rainbow Sun Franks personally, but why would an actor agree to reappear for, like, 2 seconds after being snubbed for 3 years without knowing a bigger appearance was in store later in the season? Maybe the writers knew they were wanting him for later in the season, and asked him to make the cameo with the condition of his return in this ep?Or maybe this is just wishful thinking (probably... :mckay:)Even cameos pay money

GoSpikey
August 1st, 2008, 07:06 AM
I think I'm allowed to say welcome back to an acquaintance on the Season 5 Thread. :D

Oh, and Naami has of course joined here.

And keep an eye out for what art she'll post after Todd's episodes have passed. :P

Maybe it's worth mentioning that there's also some Dutch persons hanging around here... They dress in orange, if you must know. :D

We'll hopefully get new, or the first, Identity news next week-ish? :P

Platschu
August 1st, 2008, 07:10 AM
I hope this episode will focus on Ronon. He needs a second episode in this season, and if Ford returns, than their Wraith drug addict and Runner lifestyle can be a common ground.

naamiaiset
August 1st, 2008, 07:16 AM
I hope this episode will focus on Ronon. He needs a second episode in this season, and if Ford returns, than their Wraith drug addict and Runner lifestyle can be a common ground.
I really like that idea. that could be a worthwhile reason to bring ford back if it's going to happen.

TBA
August 1st, 2008, 07:20 AM
If Ford's returning, I'd like him to become a total drug addict now. After being gone for three years, and probably after taking mucho enzyme for three years, he should be totally out of his mind. Would be very interesting to see.

GoSpikey
August 1st, 2008, 07:39 AM
I don't think so for me, personally. I've seen enough of crazy Ford.

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 09:26 AM
Yeah, no surgical attachment as of yet, but I am thinking of elaborate plans to get into Bridge Studios so I can relay spoilers better. ;)

Welcome back wheresmyfroggy! :D

Oh, and a mention:


Well, it’s a race to the finish line as Marty G. begins directing Brain Storm today (which, if you haven’t heard by now, will guest Dave Foley, Billy Nye, and Neil deGrasse Tyson), Alan preps Infection (in which Todd makes his return following the events of the mid-season two-parter), Carl (Identity) and Rob (Vegas) field questions about their respective episodes, while Paul continues work on the big season (series?) finale.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/july-31-2008-the-happening/

wheresmyfroggy
August 1st, 2008, 10:57 AM
I think I'm allowed to say welcome back to an acquaintance on the Season 5 Thread. :D

Oh, and Naami has of course joined here.

And keep an eye out for what art she'll post after Todd's episodes have passed. :P

Maybe it's worth mentioning that there's also some Dutch persons hanging around here... They dress in orange, if you must know. :D

We'll hopefully get new, or the first, Identity news next week-ish? :P

Can't EVER have enough Todd art, that's for sure. Glad to have another Todd fan on board!

Mitchell82
August 1st, 2008, 11:00 AM
Yeah, no surgical attachment as of yet, but I am thinking of elaborate plans to get into Bridge Studios so I can relay spoilers better. ;)

Welcome back wheresmyfroggy! :D

Oh, and a mention:



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/july-31-2008-the-happening/

So do we really know much about this ep? Not to mention I hope the season finale is just that a season finale.

GoSpikey
August 1st, 2008, 11:56 AM
Mitchell, I don't think so? Not yet? Maybe sometime next week?

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 06:38 PM
Huh...


TBA writes: “Any clues, or cryptic hints, to this ‘guest star that will have boards buzzing’ of #518, Identity?”

Answer: A guest star that will have boards buzzing? Beats me. Let me know though.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/august-1-2008-my-top-5-july-reads/

Infinatus
August 1st, 2008, 06:43 PM
That's odd. He did say earlier on his blog that there would be a significant guest star. :confused:

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 06:46 PM
Yeah...

I'll call him on it; let's see what happens.

jelgate
August 1st, 2008, 06:50 PM
JM greatest enemy is his favorite poster.

BWHAHAHAHAHA

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 06:52 PM
I try to emulate him whenever I can. ;)

wheresmyfroggy
August 1st, 2008, 09:03 PM
ROFL! Uh-oh! Looks like mommy (PG) and daddy (JM) are fighting again!

*mental note to herself to check the blog every 10 minutes tomorrow*

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 09:45 PM
I'm male. ;)

wheresmyfroggy
August 1st, 2008, 09:51 PM
I know, and I'm sorry, but I just had to have JM as the daddy, right? I mean, he is a super evil mastermind, he could rain doom upon me. DOOM!! He pressured me into it, I swear it!

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 09:57 PM
:D

There's no need to be sorry. It's just my paranoia that I may be perceived as a girl online since I think I tend to post more...spazzly, even fangirl-like, you may say.

Yeah, I'm just weird. :o

wheresmyfroggy
August 1st, 2008, 10:00 PM
I feel you, dude, since I play video games online and I'm a girl, but it's automatically assumed I'm a guy. *sigh* Girls like to play Warcraft too, ya know! *feel your pain*

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 10:04 PM
Oh yeah, I'd imagine that that'd suck equally.

We'll suffer through mis-genderation together. ;)

GoSpikey
August 2nd, 2008, 12:04 AM
JM greatest enemy is his favorite poster.

BWHAHAHAHAHA

Bwahahahahaha :indeed: !!!

TBA
August 2nd, 2008, 04:07 AM
Meh, I do recall JM posting about 'the return of that guest star will have the boards abuzz' or something like that... So...?

Platschu
August 2nd, 2008, 02:11 PM
When did he write it on his blog? Maybe he referred to Kolya in Remrants. :o

naamiaiset
August 2nd, 2008, 04:48 PM
When did he write it on his blog? Maybe he referred to Kolya in Remrants. :o

Help spin Carl’s story for episode 17 (or maybe 18?). A nice callback to some SG-1 tech, the return of that guest star will have the boards abuzz, and Carl searches for an appropriately grisly punishment.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/june-4-2008-new-studies-suggest-young-people-living-longer-than-old-people

GoSpikey
August 3rd, 2008, 04:36 AM
Froggy, if you put those dates in a spoiler tag, the board isn' that long... :P

Toopid endless scrolling... :lol:

Maybe the guest is Todd?

Infinatus
August 3rd, 2008, 04:03 PM
Only problem is that Todd appears in The Queen, and the mid-season two-parter already.

Laura Dove
August 3rd, 2008, 04:10 PM
Only problem is that Todd appears in The Queen, and the mid-season two-parter already.

The last news I know say that he'll appear in at least 5 episodes in season 5, so it leaves 2 more. One is already known, as far as I know, and the other could well be "Identity". :)

ussrelativity
August 8th, 2008, 10:42 PM
New info for "Identity"

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/08/keller_suffers_an_identity_crisi.shtml

Platschu
August 8th, 2008, 11:09 PM
It is simply boring. Why should Keller be the victim again? Why do they have to use a female character in this way? The story is a scifi cliche and they made it in "Long Goodbye" already. So, why can't they find out a better, more original Atlantis story? Do they have to make such low budget episodes to have a very expensive season finale? Sorry for complaining, but this episode seems to be the worst in the season. :(

PG15
August 8th, 2008, 11:14 PM
I didn't read the big synopsis, but from the blurb in the episode guide, I think this will be a good chance for Jewel to stretch her actor wings, like with RepliKeller.

Let's see what happens.

ussrelativity
August 8th, 2008, 11:15 PM
I'm willing to sit through this one. I'll watch it, no matter what.

g.o.d
August 8th, 2008, 11:15 PM
omg :rolleyes:

marli
August 9th, 2008, 01:07 AM
i enjoy with the return of beckett but the story is... is a little boring i think, i like keller but no more.

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 01:27 AM
"Identity"

Can you say identity theft? Yup.

So. Somehow, somewhere – on another planet – there is this Ancient device. Somehow, someone activates it. And someone – Neeva – somehow trades places with one Jennifer Keller back on Atlantis. Or, better said, their minds trade place. Acting strange, Beckett tells Woolsey and McKay that the problems might be psychologically related, since she’s otherwise healthy. Only when "Keller" sneaks out of the infirmary to the ‘jumper bay to steal a jumper, rather bluntly propositions McKay when he catches her and then pulls a gun on him when he wants to take her back to the doc, they catch on that it’s something else.

[mod snip - see the link below for the full story]

From: http://chocolate84.livejournal.com/80502.html#cutid1


*Thinks happy thoughts, thinks happy thoughts*

g.o.d
August 9th, 2008, 02:23 AM
so, we had Machelo and his story after that Duet, after that The long goodbye and now this piece of crap :rolleyes:

SGFerrit
August 9th, 2008, 02:57 AM
Ooh, I'm torn for once:D

For the first time, I actually agree that this is a 'been here, done that' episode, as opposed to something like Doppelganger. This sounds too much like previous episodes we've had, IMO.

On the other hand, this is probably the best chance Jewel is going to get to stretch her acting muscles, it gives her a chance to play a character at the completely other end of the spectrum and I do really want to see that.

I do want to see this episode, for that especially. I just wish they could have gone about it a different way.

Vespasianus
August 9th, 2008, 03:06 AM
Now that's probably gonna be the worst episode of Season 5, whose idea was this? I like most S5 episodic spoilers, but this sounds like pure ****, sorry. And I'm most definately a Pro S5, so my... revulsion towards this idea says something.

In retrospect I didn't really like S4 (save for 4 episodes probably), this episode should have been put there next to Quarantine (which I hated), not here, otherwise we'd have got a fun-sounding episode like Hexed.

Laura Dove
August 9th, 2008, 03:11 AM
It is simply boring. Why should Keller be the victim again? Why do they have to use a female character in this way? The story is a scifi cliche and they made it in "Long Goodbye" already. So, why can't they find out a better, more original Atlantis story? Do they have to make such low budget episodes to have a very expensive season finale? Sorry for complaining, but this episode seems to be the worst in the season. :(

I agree that switching bodies is not the newest plot ever, but I think on the contrary that it's a great opportunity for the character of Keller to grow, IF (if...) she manages to save herself without just playing for time and waiting for the team to rescue her. According to how it evolves, this episode might make me love Keller... or hate her.

Blencathra
August 9th, 2008, 03:11 AM
SGFerrit took the words out of my mouth. :)

This was written by Carl Binder? He does like his damsels in distress doesn't he? :S

Klenotka
August 9th, 2008, 03:21 AM
I don´t know...the first part really isn´t too original. But Jewel acting a thief? I am looking forward to it :) Keller episode? I am happy! She runs into McKay? I am happy again! I like Keller and I am not afraid to admit it :D And I agree with SGFerrit in this one - it´s chance for Jewel to finally show her potential in this one. I just hope she will be able to save herself, not to wait for someone to save her.

OT: I think this whole stuff with Carson sucks...I liked him but he should have stayed dead bc it seems he is there only when Keller is sick or something. Yeah, I agree, they shouldn´t have killed him in the first place but Keller is there and Jewel is there and I love Jewel. She is great. I feel sick lately from people who wish her to die. Yeah, I don´t like Teyla and I wish her to leave. But I never wished her to die or any other disgusting crap. I think people were ready to hate her even before she showed there just because she came after Carson.

Sorry for OT but I just saw the discussion under the GW article to this episode and made me angry how some people can react.

Linzi
August 9th, 2008, 04:33 AM
Um, I'm reserving judgement on this one.

I have to say, the bit where I read about 'Not Really Keller' trying to seduce McKay had me feeling a little queasy... Ok, so I have a bad headache this morning...but, hmmmmm, is all I can say. I don't relish the thought of yet another episode that features Keller too heavily either. She seems to be getting a lot of focus, and as I'm sort of lukewarm in my feelings towards her this doesn't have me excited really - especially considering the types of things they're apparently doing with her. Why have Keller's mind switched? Why not one of the other characters'? :confused:

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 04:42 AM
Because she needs to grow up fast, in the eyes of all the complainers?

Linzi
August 9th, 2008, 04:51 AM
Because she needs to grow up fast, in the eyes of all the complainers?
Well then, why have her in yet another episode where she's taken over? Where yet again Keller needs rescuing. Yawn... We had that in The Seed. Kidnapped in the woods seems to be another thing TPTB like doing to her. Thing is, for someone like me who doesn't dislike Keller, and wants to like her more, they're not succeeding from spoilers I've read recently. Obviously I'm reserving judgement, because I've not seen the episode, but I'm not thrilled about this episode from the spoilers really. :(

Blencathra
August 9th, 2008, 05:01 AM
It seems to me that the writers are thrilled to have someone who needs rescuing (everyone else can take care of themselves) and are going overboard with it.

*gotta go - dog just farted near computer - holding breath .....*

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 05:06 AM
Wouldn't they end the season stronger if they put this ep in the 17th slot, and Infection in the 18th one?

I'm not too thrilled about the spoilers either... I guess it's a cheaper ep since TDV and the mid-season one are taking a lot of money, already? Plus the conclusion.

As long as those eps are worth the cheaper looking ones... ;)

maxbo
August 9th, 2008, 05:18 AM
This is not good. I'm not usually bothered by the been-there, done that elements of episodes, but this is a little much even for me. In addition to this being yet another body-snatching episode, how many times are TPTB going to make Keller the damsel in distress? I'm so tired of them putting women in this role.

When I heard Jewel mention that Keller was going to be trapped in the woods again, I was hoping that she meant Tracker only. I can't believe TPTB thought it was a good idea to use this storyline again for Keller so soon and I haven't even seen Tracker yet.

It also doesn't help that this episode will feature Keller because I'm just not interested in the character. To me, she's still a background character that has been forced into the spotlight too much for my taste. So far, this makes for 3 Keller episodes in a row, in addition to her being mentioned in several other episodes and I don't find that appealing.

The only other character that's gotten as much mention in episode previews is Rodney, which is par for the course. But the Rodney mentions are worse for me this year because TPTB have been pushing shipping him with Keller so heavily that I'm starting to dread hearing about him too.

Linzi
August 9th, 2008, 05:28 AM
This is not good. I'm not usually bothered by the been-there, done that elements of episodes, but this is a little much even for me. In addition to this being yet another body-snatching episode, how many times are TPTB going to make Keller the damsel in distress? I'm so tired of them putting women in this role.

When I heard Jewel mention that Keller was going to be trapped in the woods again, I was hoping that she meant Tracker only. I can't believe TPTB thought it was a good idea to use this storyline again for Keller so soon and I haven't even seen Tracker yet.

It also doesn't help that this episode will feature Keller because I'm just not interested in the character. To me, she's still a background character that has been forced into the spotlight too much for my taste. So far, this makes for 3 Keller episodes in a row, in addition to her being mentioned in several other episodes and I don't find that appealing.

The only other character that's gotten as much mention in episode previews is Rodney, which is par for the course. But the Rodney mentions are worse for me this year because TPTB have been pushing shipping him with Keller so heavily that I'm starting to dread hearing about him too.
I agree. I'm just not seeing Keller as one of the regulars yet. She is a doctor and a background character for me. Yes, I do resent her being pushed on me sometimes, I'm not going to deny it. I think TPTB have really made a bit of a mistake with how they're using her, to be honest. :(

I'm sorry you're not happy about the spoilers for McKay. But look at it this way, at least you're getting spoilers. My favourite character seems to have been forgotten about....

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 06:08 AM
Maybe he's taking care of Todd? Who knows what happens to him in "Infection"?

:P

maxbo
August 9th, 2008, 06:21 AM
I agree. I'm just not seeing Keller as one of the regulars yet. She is a doctor and a background character for me. Yes, I do resent her being pushed on me sometimes, I'm not going to deny it. I think TPTB have really made a bit of a mistake with how they're using her, to be honest. :(

I'm sorry you're not happy about the spoilers for McKay. But look at it this way, at least you're getting spoilers. My favourite character seems to have been forgotten about....

I'm a Sheppard fan too, so I feel your pain and I also resent having Keller pushed on me because I'm sure that Brainstorm would have been a Rodney and Sheppard episode if not for TPTB's determination to push Keller on the audience.

And, I'm also uncomfortably aware of the lack of Sheppard spoilers, especially when compared to the Keller spoilers. There is something so wrong about that! How does this new character rate so many spoiler mentions when we have to practically crawl on our knees to get information about Sheppard in upcoming episodes.

I also agree that TPTB are making a mistake in how they're using Keller because they continue to make the same mistakes this year that they made last year. Last year, I went from starting to like Keller to wishing that she were sent back to Earth by the end of the season.

This year, after Search and Rescue, I had come to terms with her being a part of Atlantis even though I wasn't a fan, however, the more I hear about the Keller-focus of upcoming episodes, the more I want her returned to Earth. I would much rather be reading spoilers about any main/recurring/guest character but Keller, but, unfortunately, TPTB are so focused on promoting Keller (and Rodney/Keller) that info about the other characters appear to be an afterthought.

Klenotka
August 9th, 2008, 06:29 AM
It doesn´t mean that when the others are not mentioned in spoilers, that they don´t have any episodes at all. As far as I know, Sheppard will have at least four, Teyla had enough space already and will have probably two more episodes. Count team episodes in it and you have more than enough Sheppard and the others. I think him saving the day three times in row is also a big presence in an episode, isn´t it?
And don´t forget that even Carson, who isn´t even a main character, will have his episode. Why not Zelenka or Lorne? I could complain about it, too.
Spoilers usually say nothing. The description there is about first ten minutes of the episode, you can never know what it will be about.

elliecat
August 9th, 2008, 06:39 AM
I'm a Sheppard fan too, so I feel your pain and I also resent having Keller pushed on me because I'm sure that Brainstorm would have been a Rodney and Sheppard episode if not for TPTB's determination to push Keller on the audience.

And, I'm also uncomfortably aware of the lack of Sheppard spoilers, especially when compared to the Keller spoilers. There is something so wrong about that! How does this new character rate so many spoiler mentions when we have to practically crawl on our knees to get information about Sheppard in upcoming episodes.

I also agree that TPTB are making a mistake in how they're using Keller because they continue to make the same mistakes this year that they made last year. Last year, I went from starting to like Keller to wishing that she were sent back to Earth by the end of the season.

This year, after Search and Rescue, I had come to terms with her being a part of Atlantis even though I wasn't a fan, however, the more I hear about the Keller-focus of upcoming episodes, the more I want her returned to Earth. I would much rather be reading spoilers about any main/recurring/guest character but Keller, but, unfortunately, TPTB are so focused on promoting Keller (and Rodney/Keller) that info about the other characters appear to be an afterthought.

As usual I agree with everything you are saying! :) I would love to hear more about Sheppard but it does seem to be all about Keller (and McKay, but I like him so I don't mind!) this season. And as someone who is not a fan of Keller, but a huge fan of the show, it's rather disappointing. It appears that they are bored with the other characters, hey they have been around for 4 years now, :rolleyes: and want to just write loads of episodes for Keller. (the shiny new toy) When I read about this episode I just thought this sounds exactly like 'The Seed' and other SGA episodes but with Keller instead. Maybe they aren't all about her but they are making it seem that way.

bluealien
August 9th, 2008, 06:43 AM
This is not good. I'm not usually bothered by the been-there, done that elements of episodes, but this is a little much even for me. In addition to this being yet another body-snatching episode, how many times are TPTB going to make Keller the damsel in distress? I'm so tired of them putting women in this role.

When I heard Jewel mention that Keller was going to be trapped in the woods again, I was hoping that she meant Tracker only. I can't believe TPTB thought it was a good idea to use this storyline again for Keller so soon and I haven't even seen Tracker yet.

It also doesn't help that this episode will feature Keller because I'm just not interested in the character. To me, she's still a background character that has been forced into the spotlight too much for my taste. So far, this makes for 3 Keller episodes in a row, in addition to her being mentioned in several other episodes and I don't find that appealing.

You have just summed up how I feel about Keller. So far she just doesn't interest me at all and she is definitley being shoved into the limelight and I cannot understand why the ptb are doing this. Why this sudden interest in this lacklustre character who seems to be getting more attention than any of the other characters at this stage.


The only other character that's gotten as much mention in episode previews is Rodney, which is par for the course. But the Rodney mentions are worse for me this year because TPTB have been pushing shipping him with Keller so heavily that I'm starting to dread hearing about him too.

Again I agree and it looks like both Keller and McKay seem to be getting the chunk of attention these days so it's really dampened my enthusiasm for the rest of the season. Search and Rescue started off so well but there are just too many episodes now that I just groan at when I read the spoilers. The amount of eps that I feel like skipping now seem to be mounting on a daily basis.:(

What happened to the wonderful dynamic of the team... John/Rodney/Ronon and Teyla....

elliecat
August 9th, 2008, 06:46 AM
I love the team dynamic but Keller seems to be getting in the way all the time. :(

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 07:08 AM
They didn't need to push Teryl Rothery on us so much, either...

Maybe it's a mistake having a doctor on the main cast list? It means you have to involve her in about every story, for minutes, vs just a quick doc visit...

gebtkd
August 9th, 2008, 08:17 AM
I do agree with most that Keller has taken a bit too much predominance in the show this season. I don't dislike the character and I do like the fact that she could have a relationship with Rodney, like it or not, they are perfect for each other, however, we just had the Seed, now this one, how many times can you be taken over. Anyway, I was upset when they killed off Carson, I just didn't see the point but he should have stayed dead. I don't like the idea that let's bring him back just in case this Keller character doesn't work. Does anyone else has the feeling that they are setting up for Carson's return anyway as CMO. All the signs are there for this to happen from the spoilers. They will keep Keller around but not as CMO. Also, a lot of people are complaining about not hearing a lot of spoilers from Sheppard, but if you look at the first 3 episodes he was predominant in those even in DV so it's not like he is being forgotten, even in the Seed he was more predominant then Keller. But we do need more team dynamic and I think that the Shrine will be one of those episode. I think it will show us emotional sides of the characters that we have not seen before. Anyway, I do feel bad for Jewel in some ways, she is just an actress doing a job and all these anti this and that, just doesn't sit well with me. There is even an Anti McKay, something about Ronon being a boring character, Anti Woosley, enough, I watch Atlantis cause it's fun to watch, it has great characters, serious & funny moments and it's Science Fiction. When did it happen that we started to dissect each episodes, each characters, each plot...my god I must be old, when people watched a show just because it was entertaining. Anyway, I do think that Keller will grow this year but will not stay at CMO, Carson will be back in that role. Any one else agree? Just my two cents.

TBA
August 9th, 2008, 08:32 AM
Bah, this sounds like pure garbage for me.

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 09:56 AM
I also am not negative towards Keller, I don't think she's a whiner (when I say something like that it's a joke, not something I mean in a serious way), and I also believe she would be nice for Rodney. They can make each other grow as characters.

I also agree with the 'let's not bring everybody back from the dead' thing, because it's been over used already, especially in Atlantis in those 5 seasons they have. Weir was good, but I didn't 'love love' her, and then they bring her back in some way, Beckett had a lovely accent, and I didn't want it to go, but hey, it's not gone!, Kolya will appear postmortem also...

Keller apparently now has the position of damsel, wherein the last season it was Teyla, and we all know how much people whined about that. Now they're using it again, on a different person. Why would it need to be Keller and the woods again? They'd better have some darn good excuse for the Ancients to be making 'mind switching devices,' because if they don't explain that, it really is some cheap ep... I'd rather have an episode that's Todd's face standing on pause for 43 minutes straight, so to speak.

I must say that I know a lot of people whined about Harmony, but I did like the Ancient stuff in it, so hopefully they'll give us some background on some more Ancient things in this ep. But why Keller again? Okay, they couldn't use Teyla again, either... Or Shep and Rodney, cos they're everywhere also. Hey, what about Caveman?

But that's no go either, as it's Ronon who's gonna have to try to track her... Pfft. Couldn't they have let the team try to track a rogue Ronon, then?

It would be a bit of a challenge for Jason, it wouldn't be Wraith/Runner related for once, and maybe if he were given a bit more screen time, a bit more to do, he wouldn't make statements like 'I might be done with Ronon after season 6'. If they think he's good, give the boy something to do!

And then I forgot to mention that they don't need two doctors! And I don't think that the fans want Beckett out, and I don't think Keller will suddenly get trained at something else!

But maybe she will only be in as a regular for this season? We don't know if she'll be getting a full time schedule next season, or if Beckett will, so... Maybe we should wait a bit before speaking about that already. Hmm. :cool:

Cautious Explorer
August 9th, 2008, 10:27 AM
I do agree with most that Keller has taken a bit too much predominance in the show this season. I don't dislike the character and I do like the fact that she could have a relationship with Rodney, like it or not, they are perfect for each other, however, we just had the Seed, now this one, how many times can you be taken over.

Keller has way too much focus IMO. And most of the focus is on her personal life rather than her medical abilities. Does she even have a specialty? Most of the focus is on her self-doubt and her romantic attractions.

Why do TPTB feel the need to do this to the female characters? There's plenty of time given to Sheppard's military talents, and hardly any attention given to his personal life unfortunately. McKay gets buildup of both his personal and professional life in equal amounts. Even the episodes that are written for Ronon mostly deal with his strength and fighting skills. And of course, there's Teyla who only gets attention when she's kidnapped, pregnant or cuddling her baby. I guess women's professional abilities aren't of interest. :(



Anyway, I was upset when they killed off Carson, I just didn't see the point but he should have stayed dead. I don't like the idea that let's bring him back just in case this Keller character doesn't work. Does anyone else has the feeling that they are setting up for Carson's return anyway as CMO. All the signs are there for this to happen from the spoilers. They will keep Keller around but not as CMO.

I hope so! Atlantis needs a doctor, not a Perils of Paulline character. I'm afraid TPTB are too in love with JS to do that though. Logic goes out the window when the hormones take over.



Also, a lot of people are complaining about not hearing a lot of spoilers from Sheppard, but if you look at the first 3 episodes he was predominant in those even in DV so it's not like he is being forgotten, even in the Seed he was more predominant then Keller. But we do need more team dynamic and I think that the Shrine will be one of those episode. I think it will show us emotional sides of the characters that we have not seen before.
I watch primarily for Sheppard. The stories in these last few seasons are not nearly compelling enough to hold my interest. When they shortchange Sheppard to showcase McKay, and now Jewel, I get bored fast. Team episodes were what made the show work in the first place. They really need to go back to that.


Anyway, I do feel bad for Jewel in some ways, she is just an actress doing a job and all these anti this and that, just doesn't sit well with me. There is even an Anti McKay, something about Ronon being a boring character, Anti Woosley, enough, I watch Atlantis cause it's fun to watch, it has great characters, serious & funny moments and it's Science Fiction. When did it happen that we started to dissect each episodes, each characters, each plot...my god I must be old, when people watched a show just because it was entertaining. Anyway, I do think that Keller will grow this year but will not stay at CMO, Carson will be back in that role. Any one else agree? Just my two cents.

People are criticising the character, not the actress. Unless Jewel had a hand in scripting Keller's lines, there's no reason she should take it personally. She's voicing the lines as written and acting as directed. It's too bad she's stuck with such a weak character though.



Keller apparently now has the position of damsel, wherein the last season it was Teyla, and we all know how much people whined about that. Now they're using it again, on a different person. Why would it need to be Keller and the woods again? They'd better have some darn good excuse for the Ancients to be making 'mind switching devices,' because if they don't explain that, it really is some cheap ep... I'd rather have an episode that's Todd's face standing on pause for 43 minutes straight, so to speak.

I agree. Why do we need a damsel in distress? IMO it's old fashioned and boring.


I must say that I know a lot of people whined about Harmony, but I did like the Ancient stuff in it, so hopefully they'll give us some background on some more Ancient things in this ep. But why Keller again? Okay, they couldn't use Teyla again, either... Or Shep and Rodney, cos they're everywhere also. Hey, what about Caveman?

But that's no go either, as it's Ronon who's gonna have to try to track her... Pfft. Couldn't they have let the team try to track a rogue Ronon, then?

It would be a bit of a challenge for Jason, it wouldn't be Wraith/Runner related for once, and maybe if he were given a bit more screen time, a bit more to do, he wouldn't make statements like 'I might be done with Ronon after season 6'. If they think he's good, give the boy something to do!


Great idea. If they have to go with the alien entity idea yet again, why not go with Ronon? Think about the adjustment he would have to make if the body he was stuck in were a smaller, less athletic man? He'd have a wonderful chance to show just how cunning Ronon can be when the physical prowess isn't available.

But oh no, it's far more exciting to see Keller be a vamp for McKay. :(

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 11:09 AM
I really wish they could have given Ronon that part.

Broken Ties was supposed to be his story this season, but it didn't focus that heavily on him either, as there was so much other stuff going on (the search for him, the Teyla moments) that I think that he should get some more of a focus in another ep.

Other than firing that gun, I mean.

Cautious Explorer
August 9th, 2008, 11:26 AM
I really wish they could have given Ronon that part.

Broken Ties was supposed to be his story this season, but it didn't focus that heavily on him either, as there was so much other stuff going on (the search for him, the Teyla moments) that I think that he should get some more of a focus in another ep.

Other than firing that gun, I mean.

He has to be more than muscle to have outsmarted the Wraith for seven years. Why not let him show it?

Broken Ties was more about Tyre than Ronon. I wouldn't mind seeing another Sheppard and Ronon episode. I love how they work off each other.

I don't understand how TPTB miss the mark sometimes. First Strike could have struck off into new territory if they had been cut off from Earth for a longer period. Michael's arc could have dealt with his efforts to straddle the fence between Wraith and human factions rather than turning into a madman creating a mutant army. They bring in a new doctor and she's meek and mild, crushing on Rodney and hapless off world. (Katie Brown was kicked out why?). Another alien entity, and she chooses to inhabit the weakest link. Sometimes I think they purposely strive for midiocrity.

musicahumana
August 9th, 2008, 02:04 PM
Hi, all. I posted this in the comments area of the news article on this, but then thought..."This actually belongs in the episode thread on the forum." So, I'm posting these thoughts here. A mish-mash of ideas, really. I hope that it's okay to post them all on this thread.

First of all, I have to say I'm looking forward to this episode. It looks like they're giving Jewel something they have given the other lead characters (except for Woolsey, so far)--a chance to really play around with her acting skills. It will be nice to see her mess with playing "a wolf in Keller clothing." So yes, I'm looking forward to seeing how she does.

On a related note, everyone seems to be upset because--and I'm kind of being general here, I know--"Keller is a one-dimensional character who whines a lot." If the main beef is that she's a "weak" person (or just a weak character, depending on your opinions), it would make sense that the writers would give her some stuff to fill out her persona. And maybe--I have no idea, but maybe--if we watch this season, without staying stuck on the fact that she seemed a bit whiney her first season in (which, okay, I can see), we might find that her character grows. We've seen that in the McKay character, definitely. Perhaps this is one of the episodes that will do this for her character. It's not beyond comprehension. So I'm willing to keep an open mind.

And, it might be good to point out that McKay is a whiney character, too. I love McKay. He's my favorite, precisely because he's got such incredible character flaws...with a decent heart underneath. But why is it different with Keller? McKay whines, and everyone looks forward to his character overcoming his selfishness and fear. Keller whines, and everyone throws up their hands and yells "get rid of her!" I'm not sure why this difference exists. I'm not really looking for an answer. I just thought it might be something worth pondering.

And, finally, people seem really upset that there will be McKay/Keller romance. But we don't know that there will be, and really, when have TPTB handed us a relationship between lead characters on a silver plate? They've only done that when they can go back on it later--as in Unending when Daniel and Vala got together, or Moebus (sp?) when alt-Jack and alt-Sam kiss. So, even if they *do* indicate that McKay and Keller get together sometime this season (they may or may not at this point), I doubt that they will saturate the series with it. They KNOW that will kill it. They're not dumb. They've done well with a baby in the series so far, and everyone was worried about how that would screw things up. Let's give them a chance to play this out. If nothing else, it might really build on McKay's character. (I'm thinking it would build on Keller's, too.)

So let's keep an open mind.

Platschu
August 9th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Where is Teyla? She is forgotten completely in the second half. :(

PG15
August 9th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Have we not yet learned the lesson that spoilers don't necessarily cover the entire episode?

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Well I take back the speculation I posted earlier in the thread about Ford returning...

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 02:20 PM
It is simply boring. Why should Keller be the victim again? Why do they have to use a female character in this way? The story is a scifi cliche and they made it in "Long Goodbye" already. So, why can't they find out a better, more original Atlantis story? Do they have to make such low budget episodes to have a very expensive season finale? Sorry for complaining, but this episode seems to be the worst in the season. :(

Couldn't be as bad as The Seed. ;)

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 02:30 PM
The Seed had nice background on the Wraith...

Not that any of it has been confirmed, so far... Cos we'll need Todd to tell us about it. :P

Platschu
August 9th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Maybe I will enjoy this episode, but it hasn't got any original in this episode at first sight. I would like to something more creative and original in stand alones too. I will risk that even the sexual life of the lightning small aliens from Entity and Defiant One is more interesting than this re-used idea. I know they have to decrease the costs, because the last two episode will be very expensive, but I have never liked such episodes, where they waste a complete episode for nothing. What if the show is canceled? I can't believe they couldn't figure out something more important, what wasn't finished from earlier seasons. :o

I liked the Seed, even if the tentacles reminded me to the zerg's creep from Starcraft. They should write about this "aliens", who they began to serve the Wraith, how they could design the first ships etc.

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 02:40 PM
The Seed had nice background on the Wraith...

Not that any of it has been confirmed, so far... Cos we'll need Todd to tell us about it. :P

True. I'm glad they had an episode where we got to see a Hive ship growing. And we got to learn small tidbits about Atlantis. I simply thought the plot wasn't very engaging. I didn't hate it, I just didn't like it. :)

Yaskaleh
August 9th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Seems to be a very interesting episode. It is quite painful, looking forward to every episode this season. That hasn't happened before :O.

GoSpikey
August 9th, 2008, 03:04 PM
True. I'm glad they had an episode where we got to see a Hive ship growing. And we got to learn small tidbits about Atlantis. I simply thought the plot wasn't very engaging. I didn't hate it, I just didn't like it. :)

It's okay. There's more people who say that the ep isn't among their favorites, but it's still a decent enough ep to be a nice one.

About time we learned some things about Hives. Now we wait for the full story to come. Hmm, and what a nice voice to deliver it, hopefully! :o


Seems to be a very interesting episode. It is quite painful, looking forward to every episode this season. That hasn't happened before :O.

Lol, I'm trying to stay alive till The Queen and the mid season thing. :P

But there's some nice eps in between, so I'll manage.

Ikaros
August 9th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Seems to be a very interesting episode. It is quite painful, looking forward to every episode this season. That hasn't happened before :O.

I'll agree with you. I feel that every new episode is a little better than the previus one.

Reiko
August 9th, 2008, 03:44 PM
» This Keller crap is f---ing ridiculous.

» I think this proves that Rachel is not the leading lady ... it is Keller. At this rate Sheppard won't even be a lead anymore.

» Again, this "Carson episode" will not be about Carson at all. It will be about Keller.

» Wow. This sucks.

» It's the latter end of the second half ... I hope she dies.

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 04:01 PM
It's okay. There's more people who say that the ep isn't among their favorites, but it's still a decent enough ep to be a nice one.

About time we learned some things about Hives. Now we wait for the full story to come. Hmm, and what a nice voice to deliver it, hopefully! :o

Maybe Todd will be more willing to dole out information about Hive ships after he hijacks the Apollo. :P

Reiko
August 9th, 2008, 04:07 PM
» Maybe Todd will eat her :rolleyes:

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 04:13 PM
You never know. TPTB doesn't seem to like doctors. ;)

Reiko
August 9th, 2008, 04:20 PM
» Hey, it's also near the end of the season, which increases the likelihood exponentially :D

» Sadly, the writers' infaturation with her compensates for that. :(

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 04:27 PM
One major character is killed every season on Atlantis. :P

Personally I'm lukewarm about the Keller character. I try to like her and reserve judgment before I see an episode but admittedly I liked Carson better. On the other hand, Jewel Staite did well in Instinct, so she would have made a great recurring Hive queen instead of a doctor. :)

Reiko
August 9th, 2008, 04:33 PM
» I am hoping it is Keller. She would fit nicely, don't you think?

S1: Grodin
S2: Ford
S3: Carson
S4: Elizabeth, Kate
S5: Keller


» See, besides, more guys have been killed than girls, so they must want to make it even. ;)

» Yeah. I don't like Keller but it has nothing to do with Carson. Personally, I think Gero should be the one to send her off, though. He started this whole mess. :P

Cautious Explorer
August 9th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Don't forget their penchant for giving McKay all the meaty emotional scenes. Think of all the anguished hand-wringing and wailing he could do over the tragic death of his beloved.

They already did it in The Last Man, but remember what JM said, that was only a glimpse. This would give them the chance to really examine McKay's grief. I'm willing to sit through it if it means the end of Keller.

elliecat
August 9th, 2008, 04:38 PM
» I am hoping it is Keller. She would fit nicely, don't you think?

S1: Grodin
S2: Ford
S3: Carson
S4: Elizabeth, Kate
S5: Keller


» See, besides, more guys have been killed than girls, so they must want to make it even. ;)

» Yeah. I don't like Keller but it has nothing to do with Carson. Personally, I think Gero should be the one to send her off, though. He started this whole mess. :P

As long as they send her off soon, the less McKeller we have to put up with the better, I don't think I can take much more of it without going nuts! :(

Infinatus
August 9th, 2008, 04:53 PM
» I am hoping it is Keller. She would fit nicely, don't you think?

S1: Grodin
S2: Ford
S3: Carson
S4: Elizabeth, Kate
S5: Keller


» See, besides, more guys have been killed than girls, so they must want to make it even. ;)

» Yeah. I don't like Keller but it has nothing to do with Carson. Personally, I think Gero should be the one to send her off, though. He started this whole mess. :P

Ah. 3 and 3. :P

Whispers might be their idea of "evening it out". Granted if they kill off any characters they will be minor ones. If Keller is killed off I'm guessing it would happen in a hypothetical season 6. Just like Carson she is getting more and more development each season, then TPTB brings in the exploding tumors.

ToasterOnFire
August 9th, 2008, 05:43 PM
» Maybe Todd will eat her :rolleyes:
Nah. You know how much TPTB likes to recycle things, just look at this episode. If Keller dies it will be by exploding, flammable cyst. ;)

Platschu
August 10th, 2008, 01:47 AM
I am dreaming only, but it would be a nice plot twist, if they could find out that Neeva and her friends are working for SuperFord. :o But I know it is not gonna happen. :(

Klenotka
August 10th, 2008, 03:15 AM
OMG...this is beginning to be incredibly disgusting. Poor Jewel if she will ever be that "lucky" to read all this crap.

Showfan
August 10th, 2008, 03:29 AM
OMG...this is beginning to be incredibly disgusting. Poor Jewel if she will ever be that "lucky" to read all this crap.

Some people dislike Keller, not Jewel. It's okay to dislike a fictional character.

:sheppard::mckay::teyla::ronan:

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 03:30 AM
» Maybe Todd will eat her :rolleyes:

oh, that would be nice;)

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 03:31 AM
Some people dislike Keller, not Jewel. It's okay to dislike a fictional character.

:sheppard::mckay::teyla::ronan:

exactly! We have nothing againts JS, who is really great actress;)

Arica15
August 10th, 2008, 03:35 AM
OMG...this is beginning to be incredibly disgusting. Poor Jewel if she will ever be that "lucky" to read all this crap.

What's disgusting is people trying to invent something that doesn't exist.

I have seen NO ONE say a word against Jewel Staite, indeed many people who actively dislike Keller are Jewel Staite fans who hate seeing her wasted in such a dreadful role.

Please leave the actors out of this.

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 04:00 AM
While nobody is insulting JS, such excessive hate towards a character that someone seems to enjoy playing would probably get to them.

I've no problem with somebody not liking a character, but wow, some of the comments...

Klenotka
August 10th, 2008, 04:18 AM
What's disgusting is people trying to invent something that doesn't exist.

I have seen NO ONE say a word against Jewel Staite, indeed many people who actively dislike Keller are Jewel Staite fans who hate seeing her wasted in such a dreadful role.

Please leave the actors out of this.

Oh, yeah, like hathred towards character wouldn´t get to Jewel. That is what I meant. You might have not said anything against her but you practically insulted her by "kill her character". She is just doing her job. And I doubt that every person who said that, likes Jewel.
And I am sorry, but I don´t think I did something more disgusting than people saying "kick her out off airlock" or "kill her finally". I see a big difference between "kill Keller" (and insult actress while doing so) and "I think your comments are disgusting". I am sorry you don´t see it.

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 05:02 AM
Oh, yeah, like hathred towards character wouldn´t get to Jewel. That is what I meant. You might have not said anything against her but you practically insulted her by "kill her character". She is just doing her job. And I doubt that every person who said that, likes Jewel.
And I am sorry, but I don´t think I did something more disgusting than people saying "kick her out off airlock" or "kill her finally". I see a big difference between "kill Keller" (and insult actress while doing so) and "I think your comments are disgusting". I am sorry you don´t see it.

lol, don't be so serious...

Klenotka
August 10th, 2008, 05:06 AM
lol, don't be so serious...

Yeah, I am strangely serious lately:confused: But I think it´s also because I am finally satisfied with newly incoming characters and this spam, full of different deaths of a character, in every topic where is mentioned Keller´s name, annoys me. I don´t know what is so appealing about telling "I hate her, kill her" in different topics.

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 05:08 AM
Yeah, I am strangely serious lately:confused: But I think it´s also because I am finally satisfied with newly incoming characters and this spam, full of different deaths of a character, in every topic where is mentioned Keller´s name, annoys me. I don´t know what is so appealing about telling "I hate her, kill her" in different topics.

people don't like her, that's it. Welcome to the internet forums;)

GoSpikey
August 10th, 2008, 05:22 AM
Like Joe Mallozzi said, the more you dislike Keller, the more you'll give her episodes, to 'develop her properly and in a positive way in everybody's eyes...".

So the moment you stop whining about her in every thread, the faster we can get real SGA eps again.

So, if that's what JM said, who's killing Atlantis?

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 05:23 AM
Like Joe Mallozzi said, the more you dislike Keller, the more you'll give her episodes, to 'develop her properly and in a positive way in everybody's eyes...".

So the moment you stop whining about her in every thread, the faster we can get real SGA eps again.

So, if that's what JM said, who's killing Atlantis?

:lol: and on that day hell will freeze

Klenotka
August 10th, 2008, 05:31 AM
people don't like her, that's it. Welcome to the internet forums;)

I can´t say I am new in internet forums ;) Actually, I learnt to ignore most of those things over the years. But I think this is going too far. But this would cause only a flame so I am leaving - and you can keep complaining, I will avoid to episode threads that include word "Keller" til premiere :cool:

GoSpikey
August 10th, 2008, 05:36 AM
The problem is that they invade every episode she's in...

She's got an anti-thread, and there's a complaints thread. That should be enough.

Freedom of speech is one thing, pulling the level of a thread down by all this anti-Keller BS is another.

But, as usually there's no intervention...

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 06:02 AM
The problem is that they invade every episode she's in...

She's got an anti-thread, and there's a complaints thread. That should be enough.

Freedom of speech is one thing, pulling the level of a thread down by all this anti-Keller BS is another.

But, as usually there's no intervention...

oh really? Last time I checked, majority of anti posts were deleted

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Sure they were... :rolleyes:

GoSpikey
August 10th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Yeah, yet you're here again...

bluealien
August 10th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Yeah, I am strangely serious lately:confused: But I think it´s also because I am finally satisfied with newly incoming characters and this spam, full of different deaths of a character, in every topic where is mentioned Keller´s name, annoys me. I don´t know what is so appealing about telling "I hate her, kill her" in different topics.

People dislike the character and they are entitled to express that any way they wish. Its no different to you voicing your opinon as to how much you dislike Teyla and accusing her of being a bad actress, so what's the difference.

I don't see the need to list ways of killing of a character personally and it may be considered going too far but I guess some vent in different ways...

Jackie
August 10th, 2008, 06:30 AM
Like Joe Mallozzi said, the more you dislike Keller, the more you'll give her episodes, to 'develop her properly and in a positive way in everybody's eyes...".

So the moment you stop whining about her in every thread, the faster we can get real SGA eps again.

So, if that's what JM said, who's killing Atlantis?

Sounds to me like JM will updating his resume soon after he writes SGA into the ground.

His reasoning and theory behind how to make keller more likable is biased and ignorant. Instead of sitting back and looking at what the problem is...the character's immaturity level, her position as CMO for that maturity level and the way the character is portrayed as the "kid" doctor that everyone adores just makes many viewers cringe.

The issues he needs to address will not be accomplished by force feeding the character into more eps. He only needs ONE single ep to correct keller and he doesn't even have to kill her off or have her the damsel in distress.

She just needs an ep where she GROW UP! She needs to mature, to take responsibility and ACT like a CMO. To admit her mistakes, learn from them and go on.

If he drops the Doogie Houser act and let's Keller grow up, act like an adult and confide in those around her instead of taking pot shots at Zelenka...I would respect her more.


The problem is that they invade every episode she's in...

She's got an anti-thread, and there's a complaints thread. That should be enough.

Freedom of speech is one thing, pulling the level of a thread down by all this anti-Keller BS is another.

But, as usually there's no intervention...

Sounds pretty socialist to me. There is also a PRO thread for gushing praise. Gee, maybe that should enough too. Thus, threads like this one would no longer be needed at all.

Seperate but equal. Hmm...the USA tried that once and I believe it lead the civil rights movement.



oh really? Last time I checked, majority of anti posts were deleted

At least half...:(

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 07:15 AM
The issues he needs to address will not be accomplished by force feeding the character into more eps. He only needs ONE single ep to correct keller and he doesn't even have to kill her off or have her the damsel in distress.

She just needs an ep where she GROW UP! She needs to mature, to take responsibility and ACT like a CMO. To admit her mistakes, learn from them and go on.

If he drops the Doogie Houser act and let's Keller grow up, act like an adult and confide in those around her instead of taking pot shots at Zelenka...I would respect her more.
And how do you know that that's not exactly what they're going to do in these episodes...?

Jackie
August 10th, 2008, 08:33 AM
And how do you know that that's not exactly what they're going to do in these episodes...?

how many eps does it take to change a light bulb?

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 09:01 AM
how many eps does it take to change a light bulb?
How long's a piece of string? :p


Personally, I would rather see a gradual development culminating in some triumphant moment than a sudden one-episode turn-around.

g.o.d
August 10th, 2008, 09:03 AM
Personally, I would rather see a gradual development culminating in some triumphant moment than a sudden one-episode turn-around.

then you're watching wrong show;)

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 09:13 AM
then you're watching wrong show;)
... Nope, don't think so.

IMO Stargate's always been very good at gradual character development. Atlantis may have been a little weak in this area for the first two or three years, but it's not been completely lacking, and this season and last season have been better.

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 09:25 AM
How long's a piece of string? :p


Personally, I would rather see a gradual development culminating in some triumphant moment than a sudden one-episode turn-around.

Gradual implies some sort of progress. She's the same dithering little girl this season as she was in S4.

Maybe she'll grow up when she finds true love. :S :rolleyes:

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 09:32 AM
Gradual implies some sort of progress. She's the same dithering little girl this season as she was in S4.
And if TPTB's intention is indeed to "redeem" her this season, perhaps she won't be after these episodes...

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 09:37 AM
And if TPTB's intention is indeed to "redeem" her this season, perhaps she won't be after these episodes...

I don't think they have any intention of "redeeming" her. It's just a joke. In TPTB's eyes she's fine as is. :(

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 10:24 AM
I don't think they have any intention of "redeeming" her. It's just a joke. In TPTB's eyes she's fine as is. :(
Eh, I saw the bit about "ignoring" Shep because of it as just Joe M being his snarky self, but I think the Keller part was serious.

Jackie
August 10th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Gradual implies some sort of progress. She's the same dithering little girl this season as she was in S4.

Maybe she'll grow up when she finds true love. :S :rolleyes:

Totally agree...:)

All that was gained in one is lost later on. The issue is the lack of character consistency. Even McKay sufferers from it but not as drastically as Keller. The moment she starts to sound like a "doctor" it is reverted by a following line that is just asinine. Example:

TLM...she makes a selfish less sacrifice and rightfully tells Rodney not to change the time line.

In the next ep--She tells shep he needs surgery right away (after a building fell on him), lets him run off to go save the galaxy (like no one else is qualified) then when he finally gets to go to surgery she makes a joke about playing with his insides. There was nothing in that entire ep that she did competently.

Talk about wtf moments!!!


I don't think they have any intention of "redeeming" her. It's just a joke. In TPTB's eyes she's fine as is. :(

Nope, tptb love her devotedly. Matter of fact don't be surprised if Keller replaces JF as lead. Stargate McKeller...here we come.

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 11:29 AM
Sounds pretty socialist to me. There is also a PRO thread for gushing praise. Gee, maybe that should enough too. Thus, threads like this one would no longer be needed at all.

Seperate but equal. Hmm...the USA tried that once and I believe it lead the civil rights movement.


Except we're not looking for praise over bashing; we're looking for any semblance of neutrality and civilized discussion without wading through pages upon pages of hate posts. There's a difference.


Gradual implies some sort of progress. She's the same dithering little girl this season as she was in S4.

Maybe she'll grow up when she finds true love. :S :rolleyes:

She's only been in 3 episodes, and one of them was just for exposition (and one of the other ones had her brain influenced by an alien entity from the beginning onwards).

Based on the Carl Binder interview, Tracker might be what you're looking for, in terms of Keller development.

Laura Dove
August 10th, 2008, 11:35 AM
In the next ep--She tells shep he needs surgery right away (after a building fell on him), lets him run off to go save the galaxy (like no one else is qualified) then when he finally gets to go to surgery she makes a joke about playing with his insides. There was nothing in that entire ep that she did competently.


What if in "Search & Rescue"
she didn't willingly let Sheppard go but was stunned by Ronon? Or maybe they just ran away from the infirmary when she wasn't looking. The way John reacts to Carter's question seems to imply that Keller never agreed to let him go.

As for the "playing with the insides" joke, I liked it. :p

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 11:41 AM
She's only been in 3 episodes, and one of them was just for exposition (and one of the other ones had her brain influenced by an alien entity from the beginning onwards).

Yes. Three episodes to behave exactly as she did in season 4.



Based on the Carl Binder interview, Tracker might be what you're looking for, in terms of Keller development.

Didn't Binder write Missing? Hardly her finest hour.

I'm looking for a mature, authoritative woman, able to take charge in a crisis. Since they seem to be looking to develop her value as a love interest for Rodney, I don't see that happening.

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Eh? What's wrong with that joke? I thought it was hilarious.

Unless you meant she was incompetent because the joke fell flat, in which case the mind boggles.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned if Shep was as badly injured as Keller said he was, then Keller wasn't the only one to blame. Where was Carter? Rodney? Ronon? Simple words are not going to hold him back, and Sam could've easily called for security to retrain him to stop him from going on the mission. Stun him if you have to. Point is, if Keller was incompetent for letting John go, then the others were equally so. Heck, you can even say that McKay and Ronon were worse as they let Shep, a friend, hurt himself by being stubborn.

The much easier explanation for me is that he was patched up and/or wasn't as badly hurt as Keller said he was.


Yes. Three episodes to behave exactly as she did in season 4.

So the context means nothing then? Of course she'd be the same in S&R, as that's basically the end point of Season 4. In The Seed, as I said, her mind was taken over, and in Broken Ties, she was just acting as a doctor; I don't think you can judge her on the exposition bits that she was given; it would've been the same no matter how authoritative she is.


Didn't Binder write Missing? Hardly her finest hour.

I'm looking for a mature, authoritative woman, able to take charge in a crisis. Since they seem to be looking to develop her value as a love interest for Rodney, I don't see that happening.

I suggest you actually read the interview.

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 11:59 AM
So the context means nothing then? Of course she'd be the same in S&R, as that's basically the end point of Season 4. In The Seed, as I said, her mind was taken over, and in Broken Ties, she was just acting as a doctor; I don't think you can judge her on the exposition bits that she was given; it would've been the same no matter how authoritative she is.

We were discussing Keller's growth or lack thereof. So far, three episodes in, and no change. That was my point. She wasn't a take-charge person in S&R, played the victim again in The Seed and spouted more emotionless medical jargon in Broken Ties. Par for the course.



I suggest you actually read the interview.

He thought she was great in Missing. An extremely vague comment on growth for the character as she's once again endangered in the woods. I don't see anything there that suggests a significant change for Keller. What did you see that made you think there would be?

Naonak
August 10th, 2008, 12:16 PM
He thought she was great in Missing. An extremely vague comment on growth for the character as she's once again endangered in the woods. I don't see anything there that suggests a significant change for Keller. What did you see that made you think there would be?
I don't know about PG, but for me:
Carl Binder: ... We saw Keller in "Missing" and now we're going to see Keller in a different way in this episode... we're going to see a growth from where she's been a year ago to where she is now.
Eh, maybe it's just me...


And, you know, Sheppard has been kidnapped in the woods at least three times that I can think of... :p

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 12:18 PM
We were discussing Keller's growth or lack thereof. So far, three episodes in, and no change. That was my point. She wasn't a take-charge person in S&R, played the victim again in The Seed and spouted more emotionless medical jargon in Broken Ties. Par for the course.

Ok wait...I think we're on 2 different wave lengths here. Are you talking about how the writers are treating the character, as in an "out of universe" view?

Because I'm treating it as "in universe" and seeing mitigating circumstances "preventing" character growth.

Regardless, 3 episodes is hardly comparable to the 16 episodes still down the line. If there's still no change by, say, 3/4 of the season, then yeah, that'd be unfortunate, but for now there's still plenty of time.



He thought she was great in Missing. An extremely vague comment on growth for the character as she's once again endangered in the woods. I don't see anything there that suggests a significant change for Keller. What did you see that made you think there would be?

The "extremely vague comment", actually. I mean, if the writer says that he's written the character differently from the newbie scardy cat from Missing because of character growth, then I don't see why there wouldn't be character growth, or at least a change. But if you're looking for a complete 180 in the character you're not going to find it, and I'm thankful for that.

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Ok wait...I think we're on 2 different wave lengths here. Are you talking about how the writers are treating the character, as in an "out of universe" view?

Because I'm treating it as "in universe" and seeing mitigating circumstances "preventing" character growth.

Regardless, 3 episodes is hardly comparable to the 16 episodes still down the line. If there's still no change by, say, 3/4 of the season, then yeah, that'd be unfortunate, but for now there's still plenty of time.

Well, "out of universe" she can hardly have character growth if TPTB aren't interested. From the looks of all of season four and the first few episodes of season five, they aren't.

"in universe" I would say that serving as CMO of Atlantis for a year, confronting strange cases, getting to know the people better, would lend a certain confidence and authority to a person. Apparently not in Keller's case. Still the same quivery voice and insecurity on the rescue mission (S&R), still no strength in doctor patient relations. Nothing new after a year. And after everything she went through in The Seed, she's all chirpy smiles as she reassures everyone that Ronon will be right back to normal after Broken Ties. Guess she's never heard of psychological consequences, or it just doesn't register. She's just not selling it with her so-called professional demeanor.




The "extremely vague comment", actually. I mean, if the writer says that he's written the character differently from the newbie scardy cat from Missing because of character growth, then I don't see why there wouldn't be character growth, or at least a change. But if you're looking for a complete 180 in the character you're not going to find it, and I'm thankful for that.

Yes the vague comment is what I'm referring to. Change could mean anything -- new highlights in her hair, a new infatuation with McKay. Such a vague comment is meaningless.

Sadly, no, I don't expect a complete change. As that's pretty much what it would take to convince me that Keller is a mature and responsible physician qualified to be in charge of medicine in Atlants, I don't anticipate any real change in my opinion of her.

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 12:44 PM
And after everything she went through in The Seed, she's all chirpy smiles as she reassures everyone that Ronon will be right back to normal after Broken Ties. Guess she's never heard of psychological consequences, or it just doesn't register.

It never has in Stargate, so why start criticizing Keller for it when no other doc has ever mentioned it?


Yes the vague comment is what I'm referring to. Change could mean anything -- new highlights in her hair, a new infatuation with McKay. Such a vague comment is meaningless.

Oh come on, that's going overboard. From the context of the interview (i.e. refering back to Missing), it's obvious that she will act differently with regards to being alone and in danger, and that she'll be stronger.

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 12:52 PM
It never has in Stargate, so why start criticizing Keller for it when no other doc has ever mentioned it?

I honestly believe Carson would have stated it differently. With more somberness. You can convey meaning without words. Carson often had an air of concern. What I get most often from Keller is indifference or perkiness.




Oh come on, that's going overboard. From the context of the interview (i.e. refering back to Missing), it's obvious that she will act differently with regards to being alone and in danger, and that she'll be stronger.

It's not obvious at all. Everything depends on Carl Binder's version of "growth".

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 01:11 PM
I honestly believe Carson would have stated it differently. With more somberness. You can convey meaning without words. Carson often had an air of concern. What I get most often from Keller is indifference or perkiness.

Fair enough. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Carson's interpretation, whatever it may be, could be more sombre, but at the same time I don't see the problem with Keller putting up a "perky" front to cheer up Ronon's buddies that he'll be alright.


It's not obvious at all. Everything depends on Carl Binder's version of "growth".

True, but I have a feeling it's not new highlights. ;)

bluealien
August 10th, 2008, 01:20 PM
I don't know about PG, but for me:
Carl Binder: ... We saw Keller in "Missing" and now we're going to see Keller in a different way in this episode... we're going to see a growth from where she's been a year ago to where she is now.
Eh, maybe it's just me...


And, you know, Sheppard has been kidnapped in the woods at least three times that I can think of... :p

The problem is I really don't care anymore what they do to her... I'm sure she will suddenly be adapt at fighting and shooting a gun and maybe even saving the day .. but I really couldn't care less.. because I have zero interest in the character at the moment..

maxbo
August 10th, 2008, 01:32 PM
The problem is I really don't care anymore what they do to her... I'm sure she will suddenly be adapt at fighting and shooting a gun and maybe even saving the day .. but I really couldn't care less.. because I have zero interest in the character at the moment..

That sums up the way I feel about Keller - I don't love her and I don't hate her, I'm just not interested in her. And, I agree that by the end of this season she'll probably have acquired such amazing shooting and fighting skills that she'll be a combination of Kung Fu Keller and Annie Oakley Keller. All the while remaining wide-eyed and needy.

I really hope TPTB prove me wrong. :(

Mitchell82
August 10th, 2008, 01:44 PM
New info for "Identity"

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/08/keller_suffers_an_identity_crisi.shtml

I'll have to agree with those that say this is similar to eps we've had before, like Machello, Duet and The Long Goodbye but those were great eps and Machello gave Michael a chance to show his abilities as The Long Goodbye did with Joe and Torri. The same could happen here with Jewel. This actuallly sounds interesting.

bluealien
August 10th, 2008, 01:46 PM
That sums up the way I feel about Keller - I don't love her and I don't hate her, I'm just not interested in her. And, I agree that by the end of this season she'll probably have acquired such amazing shooting and fighting skills that she'll be a combination of Kung Fu Keller and Annie Oakley Keller. All the while remaining wide-eyed and needy.

I really hope TPTB prove me wrong. :(


:lol:

Mitchell82
August 10th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Sounds to me like JM will updating his resume soon after he writes SGA into the ground.

His reasoning and theory behind how to make keller more likable is biased and ignorant. Instead of sitting back and looking at what the problem is...the character's immaturity level, her position as CMO for that maturity level and the way the character is portrayed as the "kid" doctor that everyone adores just makes many viewers cringe.
That's a double edged sword dear. What you see as an ignorant character and horrible writing others disagree. He obviously can't please everyone but stop assuming that your opinion is the correct one. From my perspective and obviously tptb he is doing fine.


The issues he needs to address will not be accomplished by force feeding the character into more eps. He only needs ONE single ep to correct keller and he doesn't even have to kill her off or have her the damsel in distress.

She just needs an ep where she GROW UP! She needs to mature, to take responsibility and ACT like a CMO. To admit her mistakes, learn from them and go on.

If he drops the Doogie Houser act and let's Keller grow up, act like an adult and confide in those around her instead of taking pot shots at Zelenka...I would respect her more.
I must be seeing a different show because that's not what I've seen. Keller is as far from a damsel in distress as you can get. She has more than shown her ability as a CMO and does admit her mistakes. She has shown her ability in Adrift, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa, Missing, The Seer, Quarantine, Kindred 1 and 2 The Last Man, Search and Rescue and Broken Ties. She has grown as a character and person ep by ep.

GoSpikey
August 10th, 2008, 02:06 PM
Oh, we had The Kindred Part 2 on telly today.

Keller was great in it. :D

And so was Carter! :D :D

I so love her voice in there!

Mitchell82
August 10th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Oh, we had The Kindred Part 2 on telly today.

Keller was great in it. :D

And so was Carter! :D :D

I so love her voice in there!
It is indeed one of the best eps.

bluealien
August 10th, 2008, 02:19 PM
That's a double edged sword dear. What you see as an ignorant character and horrible writing others disagree. He obviously can't please everyone but stop assuming that your opinion is the correct one. From my perspective and obviously tptb he is doing fine.


I must be seeing a different show because that's not what I've seen. Keller is as far from a damsel in distress as you can get. She has more than shown her ability as a CMO and does admit her mistakes. She has shown her ability in Adrift, Doppleganger, Tabula Rasa, Missing, The Seer, Quarantine, Kindred 1 and 2 The Last Man, Search and Rescue and Broken Ties. She has grown as a character and person ep by ep.

True we all see characters differently at times... so far I've seen her as annoying in Missing, not really a damsel in distress just irritating and whiny... and I guess I would just sum her up as "meh" in every other episode.. she didnt leave much of an impact ....
I hated the whole romance thing though in The Last Man... and other than that she didnt leave much of an impact either :( though I found her outright cringeworthy in Search and Rescue and she wouldnt convince me she was a first year med student, let alone a CMO.

Reiko
August 10th, 2008, 03:09 PM
exactly! We have nothing againts JS, who is really great actress;)

» ^ What he and ARica said. Because I don't feel like stating it for the 100th time.


So, if that's what JM said, who's killing Atlantis?

» He is. :o

Pandora's_Box
August 10th, 2008, 06:13 PM
We were discussing Keller's growth or lack thereof. So far, three episodes in, and no change. That was my point.

So essentially, you're looking for the writer's to do for Keller what they haven't done for any other character?

This is an episodic sci-fi television show. It has to appeal for audiences week in and week out that maybe haven't watched every single episode. That means that no character is going to undergo a significantly visible change in 3 or 4 episodes. It hasn't happened yet for any of our regulars. Why would you expect that from Keller?

At the most you can say that a character has exhibited different characteristics in certain episodes, but that's mostly for plot reasons. McKay was shown to be actually nice. Ronon has been vulnerable. Sheppard's been emotionally taxed. But by the next episode they have always reverted to the personality that audiences will most identify with. Always.

Why hold Keller to a different standard?



She wasn't a take-charge person in S&R,

Because she was a doctor in a military situation. What exactly was she supposed to take charge of? The mission?



played the victim again in The Seed

And you're holding that against her because it was obviously her choice. :: nods head :: Yeah I see that. [end sarcasm]



and spouted more emotionless medical jargon in Broken Ties. Par for the course.

One of the most oft used complaints against Keller is that she isn't professional enough. Now you're complaining when she is professional? Should she have been tearing up when she said it? Or injected some anger into her voice maybe?

Doctors are calm and near emotionless when delivering news because everyone else is often very emotional. They have to be solid and unwavering. A rock in a turbulent sea. People look to their doctors for all the answers and for the calm effectiveness it takes to perform a very difficult job.



He thought she was great in Missing. An extremely vague comment on growth for the character as she's once again endangered in the woods. I don't see anything there that suggests a significant change for Keller. What did you see that made you think there would be?

The context of the episode maybe. You know. The episode no one has seen yet.

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 06:50 PM
So essentially, you're looking for the writer's to do for Keller what they haven't done for any other character?

This is an episodic sci-fi television show. It has to appeal for audiences week in and week out that maybe haven't watched every single episode. That means that no character is going to undergo a significantly visible change in 3 or 4 episodes. It hasn't happened yet for any of our regulars. Why would you expect that from Keller?

At the most you can say that a character has exhibited different characteristics in certain episodes, but that's mostly for plot reasons. McKay was shown to be actually nice. Ronon has been vulnerable. Sheppard's been emotionally taxed. But by the next episode they have always reverted to the personality that audiences will most identify with. Always.

Why hold Keller to a different standard?

I'm not holding Keller to a different standard. I'd like to see growth in all of the characters. But you're right. This is episodic tv and there's little chance of it happening.

Nevertheless, I would like to see growth in Keller, because unlike the other characters, I have never liked Keller. I find her immature. The only way I expect to have any hope of liking her is if she finally grows up.



Because she was a doctor in a military situation. What exactly was she supposed to take charge of? The mission?

Because she's the head of the medical department on a mixed military/exploratory mission in another galaxy. She's the go-to person. The military can lead the rescue, pull the trapped people out of the rubble, but it's up to Keller and staff to provide medical support. I didn't see any of that. I saw a frightened girl following behind Carter and asking questions.



And you're holding that against her because it was obviously her choice. :: nods head :: Yeah I see that. [end sarcasm]

No I'm not. I'm saying that Keller lying helpless under a pile of tentacles waiting for the rest of the expedition to save her is no indication to me that TPTB intend to give her character any meaningful growth this season either.

For the record, I hate it when Teyla is forced to play damsel in distress too. It's not a favorite plot element of mine.



One of the most oft used complaints against Keller is that she isn't professional enough. Now you're complaining when she is professional? Should she have been tearing up when she said it? Or injected some anger into her voice maybe?

Are you saying that professional people are emotionless, unsympathetic and only speak in a monotone? Professional people are allowed to have emotions. I would love to see her show some anger or frustration over an inability to help someone. As long as those emotions are under control I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting them show through a bit.



Doctors are calm and near emotionless when delivering news because everyone else is often very emotional. They have to be solid and unwavering. A rock in a turbulent sea. People look to their doctors for all the answers and for the calm effectiveness it takes to perform a very difficult job.

I much preferred Beckett's style. The man showed passion for his work and enthusiasm for new discoveries. He showed sympathy for his patients without falling apart. There's no reason a doctor should be a robot. I find Keller's frozen looks, hesitant speech and flat delivery in doctor mode to be far more unsettling than any small hint of human emotion would be. (Notice I'm not suggesting dramatic outbursts or wild hysteria).



The context of the episode maybe. You know. The episode no one has seen yet.

Carl Binder hinted at "growth" for Keller. If you want to conclude that means significant growth for Keller, you're certainly within your rights to do so. I merely choose to take a more conservative view. As you said, we've not seen the episode yet. It's a little early for you to conclude that I'm wrong.

Pandora's_Box
August 10th, 2008, 07:09 PM
I'm not holding Keller to a different standard. I'd like to see growth in all of the characters. But you're right. This is episodic tv and there's little chance of it happening.

Nevertheless, I would like to see growth in Keller, because unlike the other characters, I have never liked Keller. I find her imature. The only way I expect to have any hope of liking her is if she finally grows up.

Seeing as how your perception of her level of maturity is really a matter of personal opinion, I can't say much except that I disagree with your statement that she is immature.



Because she's the head of the medical department on a mixed military/exploratory mission in another galaxy. She's the go-to person. The military can lead the rescue, pull the trapped people out of the rubble, but it's up to Keller and staff to provide medical support. I didn't see any of that. I saw a frightened girl following behind Carter and asking questions.

Were we watching the same episode? Because I don't remember seeing too much of the rescue effort period. All we did see was the part where the military led the effort to pull the people out of the rubble.

Seeing as how Keller is a doctor, she doesn't have the authority to make any decisions regarding military personnel and would have to (out of protocol) defer to the highest ranking officer. Which in this case was Carter.

I didn't see her as frightened or as a little girl following behind anyone. I saw her as a doctor recognizing that her job was to help the people that the military personnel succeeded in pulling out of the rubble. She had no place on the front lines because she doesn't have the skill set of the military personnel. She deferred to Carter when Carter obviously was the one in charge. What's so wrong with that?



No I'm not. I'm saying that Keller lying helpless under a pile of tentacles waiting for the rest of the expedition to save her is no indication to me that TPTB intend to give her character any meaningful growth this season either.

So I'm confused.

Are you saying that she should have struggled harder to free herself from that huge mass of a growing life form that was slowly taking over her mind? Are you holding against the character the fact that she couldn't fight against such a strong foe?

We've seen hive ships. We've seen what all those tentacles turn into and you're saying that Keller should have been able to fight against that?

Or are you merely annoyed at the writers for placing a female in harms way?



For the record, I hate it when Teyla is forced to play damsel in distress too. It's not a favorite plot element of mine.

Nor mine, but I don't hold it against the character.



Are you saying that professional people are emotionless, unsympathetic and only speak in a monotone? Professional people are allowed to have emotions. I would love to see her show some anger or frustration over an inability to help someone. As long as those emotions are under control I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting them show through a bit.
I much preferred Beckett's style. The man showed passion for his work and enthusiasm for new discoveries. He showed sympathy for his patients without falling apart. There's no reason a doctor should be a robot. I find Keller's frozen looks, hesitant speech and flat delivery in doctor mode to be far more unsettling than any small hint of human emotion would be. (Notice I'm not suggesting dramatic outbursts or wild hysteria).

I'm not going to go through all of season 4 to point out all the times Keller hasn't been monotonous or flat or actually showed emotion.

Take a look at Tabula Rasa when she's with McKay and Katie. Or Kindred II and her interactions with Beckett.

Or go as far back as Adrift when she's trying to save Weir's life with McKay.

Hardly emotionless and yet still professional.



Carl Binder hinted at "growth" for Keller. If you want to conclude that means significant growth for Keller, you're certainly within your rights to do so. I merely choice to take a more conservative view. As you said, we've not seen the episode yet. It's a little early for you to conclude that I'm wrong.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm neither claiming I'm right. But I am rather dumbfounded that so many people are finding so many reasons to complain and hate the show, Keller, and everyone involved because of episodes we haven't seen.

Cautious Explorer
August 10th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Seeing as how your perception of her level of maturity is really a matter of personal opinion, I can't say much except that I disagree with your statement that she is immature.

We'll have to agree to disagree.



Were we watching the same episode? Because I don't remember seeing too much of the rescue effort period. All we did see was the part where the military led the effort to pull the people out of the rubble.

Seeing as how Keller is a doctor, she doesn't have the authority to make any decisions regarding military personnel and would have to (out of protocol) defer to the highest ranking officer. Which in this case was Carter.

I didn't see her as frightened or as a little girl following behind anyone. I saw her as a doctor recognizing that her job was to help the people that the military personnel succeeded in pulling out of the rubble. She had no place on the front lines because she doesn't have the skill set of the military personnel. She deferred to Carter when Carter obviously was the one in charge. What's so wrong with that?

Again, I'm not suggesting in any way that Keller should have played a role in the initial rescue efforts. But I would have liked to have seen a more forceful attitude once it was established there were survivors to be treated. I expected her to act more in the capacity of an emergency responder than she did. I thought she seemed hesitant and confused. That's how I perceive her. I wish I could see her the way you do. It would make the show far more enjoyable. She's just not measuring up in my eyes.




So I'm confused.

Are you saying that she should have struggled harder to free herself from that huge mass of a growing life form that was slowly taking over her mind? Are you holding against the character the fact that she couldn't fight against such a strong foe?

We've seen hive ships. We've seen what all those tentacles turn into and you're saying that Keller should have been able to fight against that?

Or are you merely annoyed at the writers for placing a female in harms way?

It's a personal issue of mine. I hate it when writers can't seem to think of what to do with a woman other than to have her held captive or trapped and waiting for rescue. I don't mind when it's a strong woman who has a chance to fight back, but a pregnant Teyla tied to Michael's table was all kinds of annoying. Same with Keller feebly laying there calling out "What's happening to me?"




Nor mine, but I don't hold it against the character.

Well, if it starts to become a pattern for that character, I quickly lose intereest.



I'm not going to go through all of season 4 to point out all the times Keller hasn't been monotonous or flat or actually showed emotion.

Take a look at Tabula Rasa when she's with McKay and Katie. Or Kindred II and her interactions with Beckett.

Or go as far back as Adrift when she's trying to save Weir's life with McKay.

Hardly emotionless and yet still professional.

It would be pointless for you to try. I've seen all of season four and wasn't impressed. We see the character differently. To me she comes off as cold and flat.



I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm neither claiming I'm right. But I am rather dumbfounded that so many people are finding so many reasons to complain and hate the show, Keller, and everyone involved because of episodes we haven't seen.

For me it's born out of frustration. I started out being disappointed with Keller, then annoyed when I saw no improvement. I listened to a chorus of "Give her time, give her a chance, you'll love her". It diidn't pan out. So I'm a little jaded this time around. Sure she'll grow, and I'll love her, and she'll be so sweet with McKay.....on and on and on. Sorry. No. I learned my lesson last season.

Besides, how is that more bewildering than people being certain an episode will be spectacular sight unseen?

Pandora's_Box
August 10th, 2008, 08:05 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I can agree to that.



It's a personal issue of mine. I hate it when writers can't seem to think of what to do with a woman other than to have her held captive or trapped and waiting for rescue. I don't mind when it's a strong woman who has a chance to fight back, but a pregnant Teyla tied to Michael's table was all kinds of annoying. Same with Keller feebly laying there calling out "What's happening to me?"

I could go on and on about how much I hated what they did to Teyla last season, but this isn't the thread for it.

What I will say is that it couldn't have been easy for Keller to lie, trapped on that bed with a writhing mass of tentacles growing around her, wrapping ever more tightly around her, while a nefarious voice spoke in her mind, took over her mind slowly but surely all while being almost completely alone. She couldn't see, she was barely conscious of what was happening (at least that's what we were led to believe), and had no way to extricate herself from her situation or fight against the HiveMind taking control.

This isn't to say that I was entirely happy with the manner in which this episode was treated either. The way I figure is that if TPTB aren't going to utilize a character's particular strengths in an episode such as this (in whatever fashion) then it could have been just about anybody lying on that bed in a full body wrap. That's tiresome and pointless, I agree.

But maybe, just maybe, this is laying the groundwork for some more insight into the creation of a Wraith Hive ship. Maybe we'll get a rematch, Keller vs. The Hive part 2 and we'll see her take what she learnt in that first experience and use it to make some grand develpment.

Or maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit. Who knows. Evidently I just have more faith in the character and am more of a mind to like her. I guess there really is no accounting for taste (mine or yours) and I can't fault someone for having different opinions than I.



Well, if it starts to become a pattern for that character, I quickly lose intereest.

Sure, but I'd tend to lose interest in the show in general not just the single character. That sort of pattern is usually indicative of a kind of mentality I'm not very interested in condoning.



It would be pointless for you to try. I've seen all of season four and wasn't impressed. We see the character differently. To me she comes off as cold and flat.
For me it's born out of frustration. I started out being disappointed with Keller, then annoyed when I saw no improvement. I listened to a chorus of "Give her time, give her a chance, you'll love her". It diidn't pan out. So I'm a little jaded this time around. Sure she'll grow, and I'll love her, and she'll be so sweet with McKay.....on and on and on. Sorry. No. I learned my lesson last season.

Mileage varies and as I've pointed out, I can't fault you, or anybody, for that.



Besides, how is that more bewildering than people being certain an episode will be spectacular sight unseen?

It isn't.

I have my concerns about what we've heard so far.

Yes I'm a fervent McKeller shipper and supporter of the show, but I'm not blind nor am I stupid.

The SGA audience, as most sci-fi audiences are, is predominantly male. The casual male viewer tends to look for space battles, explosions, cool aliens, lead male characters that kick butt or spout cool sounding techno-babble, and pretty alien chicks in skimpy clothing. They're not so interested in seeing a tenderly sweet romance between two socially maladjusted geeks with hearts of marshmallow however hot the female might be and however snarky funny the male may be.

So I'm wary, but I'll keep an open mind. Unfortunately, I'm seeing quite a few people reacting as if this signals the coming of the apocalypse.

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 08:09 PM
This male is looking forward to McKeller. Just saying. ;)

Pandora's_Box
August 10th, 2008, 08:16 PM
This male is looking forward to McKeller. Just saying. ;)

Awesome! And I wasn't claiming every male thought that way. But a large portion of them do.

Kezia
August 10th, 2008, 08:52 PM
Awesome! And I wasn't claiming every male thought that way. But a large portion of them do.

This male definitely doesn't, but I respect those that do. To each his own.

I look for well-written character drama and relationships in any show I watch, and unfortunately McKeller just pushes all the wrong buttons for me.


The SGA audience, as most sci-fi audiences are, is predominantly male. The casual male viewer tends to look for space battles, explosions, cool aliens, lead male characters that kick butt or spout cool sounding techno-babble, and pretty alien chicks in skimpy clothing. They're not so interested in seeing a tenderly sweet romance between two socially maladjusted geeks with hearts of marshmallow however hot the female might be and however snarky funny the male may be.
I'm quite almost the polar opposite of your "casual male viewer", though I do appreciate well-done effects and the occasional not-cheesy space battle/explosion/etc... and pretty alien chicks, of course. :D

PG15
August 10th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Oh, yes, I enjoy those things as well, in addition to McKeller. :D

bluealien
August 11th, 2008, 12:27 AM
Indentity and the back half of season 5 seem to be a Keller and possibley a McKeller marathon and neither of them appeal to me in any way. I'm still clinging to some hope that it won't be as bad as I imagine and we will get some good team moments in between all the McKeller cringeworthy moments. I have never felt as disallusioned with the show as I do now as it's the team I tune in for. I had no problem with Keller in season four (eventhough she never impressed me) but I could handle her in small doses and being a doctor, but not this over indulgence of one character whom I have no interest in at all. McKay I find enjoyable with the team but on his own or romancing Keller just leaves me cold.

I'm not going to list a whole load of things about why I don't like Keller, it's mainly because she is so totally unconvincing as a CMO and nothing about her so far as endeared me to anything she does...

ykickamoocow
August 11th, 2008, 01:12 AM
People seem to forget that Beckett complained constantly and is probably a much bigger whiner than Keller. Why is Beckett's complaining acceptable while Keller's is not?

Pandora's_Box
August 11th, 2008, 04:11 AM
Indentity and the back half of season 5 seem to be a Keller and possibley a McKeller marathon and neither of them appeal to me in any way. I'm still clinging to some hope that it won't be as bad as I imagine and we will get some good team moments in between all the McKeller cringeworthy moments. I have never felt as disallusioned with the show as I do now as it's the team I tune in for. I had no problem with Keller in season four (eventhough she never impressed me) but I could handle her in small doses and being a doctor, but not this over indulgence of one character whom I have no interest in at all. McKay I find enjoyable with the team but on his own or romancing Keller just leaves me cold.

I'm not going to list a whole load of things about why I don't like Keller, it's mainly because she is so totally unconvincing as a CMO and nothing about her so far as endeared me to anything she does...

And this is exactly what I was talking about. Excuse me for sayin', but this seems to be an overreaction to the information we've been getting on the episodes.

Keller is now part of the regular cast and as such will have a more eminent role in the series. It stands to reason that she'll get at least one Keller-centric episode this season. All the characters get at least one episode that revolves mostly around the one person. "Identity" seems to be that one for Keller.

Some would argue "The Seed" as well, but I counter that that was hardly focused on Keller and more the team as they tried to save her and Atlantis, and quite a bit on Woolsey being introduced as bas commander.

Then I guess we also have "Tracker", but that seems to be as much Ronon and McKay if not more.

So I don't see where all this, "overindulgence of one character" is happening because it certainly doesn't seem to be on the show.

She's a main character now which means more screen time. If you don't like her and any screen time is too much screen time then that's different from this becoming The Keller Show.

I can't stand Ronon, but I'm not claiming that him having "Broken Ties" is TPTB obsessing over his character. Even though Mallozzi has claimed to love to write for that character.

It's normal for regular characters to be more involved in story lines.


People seem to forget that Beckett complained constantly and is probably a much bigger whiner than Keller. Why is Beckett's complaining acceptable while Keller's is not?

Because it's different when you like a character. Then you'll take all kinds of things from them. If you don't like the character, then that same action is all kinds of horrendous and unbearable.

CazzBlade
August 11th, 2008, 04:17 AM
Keller is now part of the regular cast and as such will have a more eminent role in the series. It stands to reason that she'll get at least one Keller-centric episode this season. All the characters get at least one episode that revolves mostly around the one person. "Identity" seems to be that one for Keller.

Some would argue "The Seed" as well, but I counter that that was hardly focused on Keller and more the team as they tried to save her and Atlantis, and quite a bit on Woolsey being introduced as bas commander.

Then I guess we also have "Tracker", but that seems to be as much Ronon and McKay if not more.

So I don't see where all this, "overindulgence of one character" is happening because it certainly doesn't seem to be on the show.


There's also Brain Storm and Infection ;)

Skydiver
August 11th, 2008, 04:33 AM
Guys

While i know that Keller is in this episode, and I know that you have feelings about her presence in the episode, how about a bit more discussion about the episode itself and a bit less about one singular aspect - namely Keller..

Surely there's more to it than just her contribution

bluealien
August 11th, 2008, 04:41 AM
And this is exactly what I was talking about. Excuse me for sayin', but this seems to be an overreaction to the information we've been getting on the episodes.

Keller is now part of the regular cast and as such will have a more eminent role in the series. It stands to reason that she'll get at least one Keller-centric episode this season. All the characters get at least one episode that revolves mostly around the one person. "Identity" seems to be that one for Keller.

Some would argue "The Seed" as well, but I counter that that was hardly focused on Keller and more the team as they tried to save her and Atlantis, and quite a bit on Woolsey being introduced as bas commander.

Then I guess we also have "Tracker", but that seems to be as much Ronon and McKay if not more.

So I don't see where all this, "overindulgence of one character" is happening because it certainly doesn't seem to be on the show.

She's a main character now which means more screen time. If you don't like her and any screen time is too much screen time then that's different from this becoming The Keller Show.

I can't stand Ronon, but I'm not claiming that him having "Broken Ties" is TPTB obsessing over his character. Even though Mallozzi has claimed to love to write for that character.

It's normal for regular characters to be more involved in story lines.



Because it's different when you like a character. Then you'll take all kinds of things from them. If you don't like the character, then that same action is all kinds of horrendous and unbearable.


Well of course you'll enjoy the show more if you enjoy the characters and thats what is boils down to. But I don't expect to love all the characters or moan constantly when a character I don't like get a lot of attention. Most of the time McKay drives me nuts but I like him in the context of the team and the dynamic he brings to the show and the team... I accept that he is good in the part he plays and is a very convincing snarky genius who rubs up a lot of people the wrong way.. but behind all his snark he has a good heart... so the bad is balanced out by the good... but Keller is not even convincing in the role she has been cast... she has not once instilled in me any confidence or believability that she is a CMO, in fact not even a doctor. Janet from SG1 was totally credible in her portrayal of a doctor and this is what I expected from Keller.

I'm not interesed in Kellers personal issues or her antics outside her field of medicine .. and so far I find her a boring and extremely lacklustre character so therefore I have no desire to see lots of her. IMO she should have been left a supporting character, I see no need to add her to the main cast but I have no choice but to accept that she is main character now, but that doesn't mean I want to see her showcased in practically 5 episodes in a row when the other MAIN characters are still woefully underdeveloped... including the lead of the show.
If I found her a tad more interesting (like Woolsy and he has only just come to the show) then I wouldnt be as upset about the ptb giving so much focus to her.

I also have zero interest in seeing a romantic relationship between her and Rodney and Ronon.... the ptb have messed around in the past constantly with regards to shipping and pretty much said that shipping main characters is a big no no.. but now that's all changed.. why? to make her more popular ... JM admits they are giving her more attention because she is so far NOT a well received character... this kind of thinking just boggles the mind.... they give more screentime to a character that's not all that well received and ignore the ones that are.

I really am hoping it's just a load of hype and it won't be near as bad as the spoilers make it out to be (and I can cope with her being used in a similar way as she as used in the Seed) But if not then it will leave me with not a great to enjoy in the second half of the season..because the focus seems to be constantly on a character that doesnt interest me at all and a relationship that doesnt interest me at all... but that's just my opinion..

Pandora's_Box
August 11th, 2008, 05:08 AM
There's also Brain Storm and Infection ;)



I'm not interesed in Kellers personal issues or her antics outside her field of medicine .. and so far I find her a boring and extremely lacklustre character so therefore I have no desire to see lots of her. IMO she should have been left a supporting character, I see no need to add her to the main cast but I have no choice but to accept that she is main character now, but that doesn't mean I want to see her showcased in practically 5 episodes in a row when the other MAIN characters are still woefully underdeveloped... including the lead of the show.
If I found her a tad more interesting (like Woolsy and he has only just come to the show) then I wouldnt be as upset about the ptb giving so much focus to her.


All we've heard about "Brain Storm" is that she's at a function with McKay.

As for "Infection", we've head of what will most likely be the B or C plot with Keller learning more about Wraith physiology.

That's hardly "showcasing" the character.

Look, I get it. Some people don't like her. Obviously taste differs from person to person. That's expected and that's fine.

I'm not saying everyone should like her. All I'm asking is that people look at this reasonably and as objectively as possible. We haven't seen these episodes yet. All we've heard about them is what the MGM promo monkeys want us to hear. And what they want us to hear is always what's going to be creating the most amount of discussion amongst fans and forums such as this one.

So I think some people need to just calm down and realize that these are not scripts we're being privy to. We don't know how these episodes will play out. I don't know how they'll play out. They could focus heavily on Keller. Odds are they won't. TPTB aren't so stupid as to focus a team-centric show on one character.

Skydiver, I did see your post and I just wanted to finish off responding to that discussion.

In light of Infection, how do people feel about the new particulars about "the seduction of Rodney McKay"? Is is a case of the writers falling back on the old sci-fi standby of the-sexually-uninhibited-alien-female? Is it maybe overdone?

CazzBlade
August 11th, 2008, 05:30 AM
In light of Infection, how do people feel about the new particulars about "the seduction of Rodney McKay"? Is is a case of the writers falling back on the old sci-fi standby of the-sexually-uninhibited-alien-female? Is it maybe overdone?

No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis :) I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

ykickamoocow
August 11th, 2008, 05:34 AM
No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis :) I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

Teyla (or atleast Teyla's body) trying to seducing McKay would be hilarious :D

Pandora's_Box
August 11th, 2008, 07:08 AM
No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis :) I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

I think McKay in that sort of situation will be hilarious regardless of who's doing the seducing. Uncomfortable McKay always translates into a priceless scene.

That said, you don't see this concept as overdone? I don't mean on SGA, but in general. Although we have had alien consciousnesses take over people's bodies before in The Long Goodbye, this seems likes it's going to be played out differently as it's more an exchange of consciousnesses than a takeover.

I'm mostly referring the sexual seduction part. To be honest, as much as I love McKeller (quite obviously), even I cringed when I'd heard that there'd be such a scene in Identity.

Apparently the easiest way for an alien entity to bend a human male to her will is through sexual overtures. I've seen this on too many shows to count and read it in too many books, all of them sci-fi, that I tend to roll my eyes and cringe at the hint of it happening yet again.

I'd just hoped that we could get through one of these plot concepts without that particular theme. Although it's more of a commentary on the male mind then anything else and maybe I just need to accept that males think with the lower brain a lot of the time and be done with it.

Let the writers live vicariously through their characters or something and just move on.

Linzi
August 11th, 2008, 08:25 AM
All we've heard about "Brain Storm" is that she's at a function with McKay.

As for "Infection", we've head of what will most likely be the B or C plot with Keller learning more about Wraith physiology.

That's hardly "showcasing" the character.

Look, I get it. Some people don't like her. Obviously taste differs from person to person. That's expected and that's fine.

I'm not saying everyone should like her. All I'm asking is that people look at this reasonably and as objectively as possible. We haven't seen these episodes yet. All we've heard about them is what the MGM promo monkeys want us to hear. And what they want us to hear is always what's going to be creating the most amount of discussion amongst fans and forums such as this one.

So I think some people need to just calm down and realize that these are not scripts we're being privy to. We don't know how these episodes will play out. I don't know how they'll play out. They could focus heavily on Keller. Odds are they won't. TPTB aren't so stupid as to focus a team-centric show on one character.

Skydiver, I did see your post and I just wanted to finish off responding to that discussion.

In light of Infection, how do people feel about the new particulars about "the seduction of Rodney McKay"? Is is a case of the writers falling back on the old sci-fi standby of the-sexually-uninhibited-alien-female? Is it maybe overdone?
I just want to say, I don't dislike Keller, and I've enjoyed her more in season 5. However, it IS the spoilers for this episode which have upset me. The seduction thing honestly makes me want to throw up. It's clichéd, and something the writers do when they're usually trying to 'ship' a couple. It's clumsy, boring and really not what I want to see and it's as subtle as a brick through the window - and I don't care which pairing it's for. Now, if it's played for comedy it could work, I suppose. And it'd be much more entertaining if it were Teyla doing the seducing, or Teyla's body, should I say, since it'll be Keller's body with the clichéd alien in her head :rolleyes: I have to say, it's pretty rare for me to really get irritated by spoilers. I'm normally a glass half full kind of girl, but this has REALLY got to me. Teyla however, could have McKay on the floor with one move! :lol: And poor McKay would be helpless! :D But when it's a character we know another character has feelings for, it really alters that dynamic. Take, for example Jack and Sam in The Broca Divide. Now I didn't have a problem with that situation per se, but it is rather old, I think, and I groaned back then, however many years ago it was I saw that eppie first time round! :eek: 12? 13? .

On a sidenote, and I hope this isn't OT, Sky, :o if TPTB are doing the whole McKeller thing, and let's be honest, we're reading it just about in every interview with Jewel and interviews with TPTB recently, then I think they're making a massive mistake. If they want to further the romance, doing it in this clichéd way is just so immature. But, as I've said before, I have a real issue with any doctor having romantic designs on a patient. Quite simply, ethically it's NOT allowed, and if you romance a patient, as a doctor you could be accused of professional misconduct and struck off. So, I'd rather they didn't do this, to be honest. Of course if Keller no longer treats McKay and he has another doctor, then there's no problem in that respect :)

But, that's a side issue to this seduction idea. I don't like it, I don't think it's a good idea, and seriously, how old are these writers? :eek:

Also, I have to say, I do object to a character I feel is already weak being taken over twice in one season. It doesn't sit right with me. I'd complain just as much is Teyla had been taken over in the Seed and then again in this episode, and I really liked the Seed and liked Keller in it. I have no issues with her portrayal, writing or anything to do with her in that episode. It's just the spoilers for this, Brain Storm and Identity all put together which worry me, but mostly this episode :eek:

Teyla (or atleast Teyla's body) trying to seducing McKay would be hilarious
Agreed. I'm laughing thinking about it. :lol:

No, I don't think its been overdone, especially not in Atlantis :) I'd be perfectly fine with it if there wasn't McKeller in other episodes. I think Rodney's reaction would be hilarious if it were Teyla coming on to him, someone he would never expect to and doesn't have feelings for himself. But because it's Keller, I'll just be left feeling uncomfortable and cringing. Same if it was Keller with someone else, their reaction would be priceless, but its not its Rodney.

I'm not in you're head with this one Cazz! :lol: I do think it's been overdone. It's been done to death, IMO, and I wouldn't want to see it for any pairing where TPTB were 'romancing' them. As I said, play it for comedy, fine, it could be a novel approach and entertaining. Do it for characters we know have an attraction and feelings for, and then I do start to feel ill! :lol:

I hope this isn't OT? But if this were Shep and Teyla, who I know you're quite fond of, would you be ok with it? Or say, Shep and say, Larrin, or Carter, if she were around? For me, unless it was played humorously and for a couple who had no romantic designs or perceived designs it would never work for me.

I do think this idea is just immature, and that's honestly the first time I've ever said that about a storyline on SGA. :(

ykickamoocow
August 11th, 2008, 08:38 AM
I hope this isn't OT? But if this were Shep and Teyla, who I know you're quite fond of, would you be ok with it? Or say, Shep and say, Larrin, or Carter, if she were around? For me, unless it was played humorously and for a couple who had no romantic designs or perceived designs it would never work for me.


I personally dont think anyone should ever seduce Sheppard as it is just weird. I always thought that the scene in "The Tower" (the scene where that woman disrobes infront of Sheppard) would have been a million times better with McKay instead. McKay's reaction would have been hilarious and it would have been a much better scene than the one we actually got which came across (atleast to me) as kind of weird.

Linzi
August 11th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I personally dont think anyone should ever seduce Sheppard as it is just weird. I always thought that the scene in "The Tower" (the scene where that woman disrobes infront of Sheppard) would have been a million times better with McKay instead. McKay's reaction would have been hilarious and it would have been a much better scene than the one we actually got which came across (atleast to me) as kind of weird.
I thought the Tower scene was a tad weird. I'd have much preferred it to be played more for comedy, yes. I'd have loved to see Shep tripping over and then seen her chuck Mara out of his room, personally.

I have to say, I don't think the idea of someone trying to seduce Sheppard is weird though. Do I want to see it ? Um, unless it's for comedy, HELL NO! :eek:

My only hope is that the seduction thing in this eppie is brief, comedic and something I can forget ever happened! However the whole alien in the head thing IS getting old now. Surely the writers could have come up with something more fresh?

Pandora's_Box
August 11th, 2008, 09:29 AM
I thought the Tower scene was a tad weird. I'd have much preferred it to be played more for comedy, yes. I'd have loved to see Shep tripping over and then seen her chuck Mara out of his room, personally.

I have to say, I don't think the idea of someone trying to seduce Sheppard is weird though. Do I want to see it ? Um, unless it's for comedy, HELL NO! :eek:

My only hope is that the seduction thing in this eppie is brief, comedic and something I can forget ever happened! However the whole alien in the head thing IS getting old now. Surely the writers could have come up with something more fresh?

Because we're talking about McKay, I don't think the writers can plausibly play it out any other way than for comedic value.

I see McKay more as looking around with a, "Who me?" look on his face at her first advances, then being all stuttering and uncomfortable-like, realizing that something was wrong, and resisting. He's not a complete cad, McKay. I don't see him taking advantage of this in any way.

At which point Neeva/Keller will probably knock him out or something.

And it's finally hit me. What this reminds me of. The "Our Mrs. Reynolds" episode of Firefly. Saffron can't seduce Wash so she knocks him out and gets what she wants anyway.

Yep. This is very original writers. Very.

Granted, not much in sci-fi is very original anymore anyway.

Reiko
August 11th, 2008, 09:52 AM
People seem to forget that Beckett complained constantly and is probably a much bigger whiner than Keller. Why is Beckett's complaining acceptable while Keller's is not?

» It's the way they 'whine'. And also what you really love the character for.

» It's been stated elsewhere several times, so I won't say it again. :o

Heaven
August 11th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Sheppard is a whiner too

I swear every time he yells "Rodney do something!" I feel like punching the guy in the face.

CazzBlade
August 11th, 2008, 10:03 AM
I'm not in you're head with this one Cazz! :lol: I do think it's been overdone. It's been done to death, IMO, and I wouldn't want to see it for any pairing where TPTB were 'romancing' them. As I said, play it for comedy, fine, it could be a novel approach and entertaining. Do it for characters we know have an attraction and feelings for, and then I do start to feel ill! :lol:

I hope this isn't OT? But if this were Shep and Teyla, who I know you're quite fond of, would you be ok with it? Or say, Shep and say, Larrin, or Carter, if she were around? For me, unless it was played humorously and for a couple who had no romantic designs or perceived designs it would never work for me.

I do think this idea is just immature, and that's honestly the first time I've ever said that about a storyline on SGA. :(

No I wouldn't like it if it was JT. You said what I was trying to say but did it much better :P My problem with is that these two are being shipped, if they weren't and it was played for laughs then it would be alright :)

I don't think its been done that much in Atlantis, I can only think of The Tower and Travellers when someone (well Shep :P) has been seduced and although I didn't like these scenes, I don't think that is overuse. I don't really watch much sci-fi other than Atlantis so it might just be that I haven't seen the shows where one of the characters has been taken over by an alien entity :P

I definately don't want this to happen, I would only be okay with it if it were comedic which by the sounds of it, its not :cool:

CazzBlade
August 11th, 2008, 10:03 AM
Sheppard is a whiner too

I swear every time he yells "Rodney do something!" I feel like punching the guy in the face.

Please do :D

Pandora's_Box
August 11th, 2008, 10:14 AM
Sheppard is a whiner too

I swear every time he yells "Rodney do something!" I feel like punching the guy in the face.

Me too! Can I join the club? Is there a club? There should be a club.



I definately don't want this to happen, I would only be okay with it if it were comedic which by the sounds of it, its not :cool:

Oh, I don't see this being played any other way but for laughs. It would be impossible to do otherwise with Rodney. That's just the sort of tone he would bring to a scene like this with his mumbling and stuttering and general awkwardness around overtly sexual females.

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Sheppard is a whiner too

I swear every time he yells "Rodney do something!" I feel like punching the guy in the face.

And i thought it was only me !!!!! What he things he is asking from the guy? to make him a pitsa?

Cautious Explorer
August 11th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I'm not so worried about Rodney's part in all this. I'm more worried that watching Keller (her body at least) trying to be seductive will be more cringeworthy than humorous. It's really not something I'm eager to see.

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Why? she was so cute beeing naughty in firefly and she has the acting skills to do it !!
Give the girl a chance:) Rememper only a geek can understant another geek ;).
Btw it feels more like a team episode and not so much Keller-centric. The team must work together to save her and other people in Atlantis. I think i read somewhere in gw spoilers that "Atlantis isn't safe" or something like it. It sounds like a team episode and i love those more than anything else

Rac80
August 11th, 2008, 01:38 PM
I'll have to agree with those that say this is similar to eps we've had before, like Machello, Duet and The Long Goodbye but those were great eps and Machello gave Michael a chance to show his abilities as The Long Goodbye did with Joe and Torri. The same could happen here with Jewel. This actuallly sounds interesting.
I think it will be interesting to see her try to seduce mckay- (ok am i the only one who gets that only IF she is possessed does she try something with mckay?:P) the character is played as miss sweet and not as miss sexpot!


While nobody is insulting JS, such excessive hate towards a character that someone seems to enjoy playing would probably get to them.

I've no problem with somebody not liking a character, but wow, some of the comments...

well she has read the comments and has this to say here (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=147037658&blogID=421479063). I am sure it must be disheartening to play what you feel is a likeable character and then read people talking about 100 ways to kill her. :S it would irritate me just a bit.

Cautious Explorer
August 11th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Why? she was so cute beeing naughty in firefly and she has the acting skills to do it !!
Give the girl a chance:) Rememper only a geek can understant another geek ;).
Btw it feels more like a team episode and not so much Keller-centric. The team must work together to save her and other people in Atlantis. I think i read somewhere in gw spoilers that "Atlantis isn't safe" or something like it. It sounds like a team episode and i love those more than anything else

She won't be playing Kaylee -- or at least I hope not! Kaylee was a young girl. Keller is written as a young girl. I'm dubious that the writers and JS can give us anything that isn't cutesy.

I love team episodes too. I'm not so crazy over team episodes that center around saving Keller.

Linzi
August 11th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Please do :D
Er, ditto :D

Rac80
August 11th, 2008, 01:47 PM
People seem to forget that Beckett complained constantly and is probably a much bigger whiner than Keller. Why is Beckett's complaining acceptable while Keller's is not?

I often refer to mckay and beckett as "the moan-a-minute twins!" it suits them to a "T"! ;) For me the idea of an grown adult male whining is simply obscene! they need to grow some chutzpah!


I am more interested in seeing how Jennifer will deal with the bad guys she will be stuck with, than with any mckay interactions.

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 01:50 PM
She won't be playing Kaylee -- or at least I hope not! Kaylee was a young girl. Keller is written as a young girl. I'm dubious that the writers and JS can give us anything that isn't cutesy.

I love team episodes too. I'm not so crazy over team episodes that center around saving Keller.

I meant that she wont be awkward or anything! she is a very good actress and a very sexy woman! what could go wrong in trying to seduse a man?
As for the team , well they have to save someone or something everytime ;)
It's just another mission.

Cautious Explorer
August 11th, 2008, 01:52 PM
I am more interested in seeing how Jennifer will deal with the bad guys she will be stuck with, thanw ith any mckay interactions.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with you. I'm curious to see how another actress would portray the character of Keller.

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Ok i give up!!!
you don't even like her as an actress, how am i supposed to argue with people's preferences?

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 01:59 PM
It's just a matter of what one likes so..... i rest my case
(but she is sexy and Mckay needs a doctor anyway ....)

Cautious Explorer
August 11th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Ok i give up!!!
you don't even like her as an actress, how am i supposed to argue with people's preferences?

Not true. I liked her in Firefly. I just don't like her as Keller.

I truly am interested in how another actress would portray the same character. She may have a different understanding of the character or a different way of presenting her. I'd like to see it.

Showfan
August 11th, 2008, 02:04 PM
I think it will be interesting to see her try to seduce mckay- (ok am i the only one who gets that only IF she is possessed does she try something with mckay?:P) the character is played as miss sweet and not as miss sexpot!



well she has read the comments and has this to say here (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=147037658&blogID=421479063). I am sure it must be disheartening to play what you feel is a likeable character and then read people talking about 100 ways to kill her. :S it would irritate me just a bit.

Jewel is a professional. I'm sure she realizes that Keller is a fictional character, and some people will like her and some people will hate her and still others will be indifferent. What she might determine to be a "likeable" character may not be perceived as such by others.

Your post and added my space link makes it sound like fans should feel "guilty" for not liking Keller because it may hurt Jewel's feelings. Honestly, it has not changed my opinion one bit. And I don't think the link belongs under this topic.

Speaking of Identity, I find the idea of McKay's attempted seduction laughable. Just another way to push McKeller in an episode.

On the other hand I think this would have been a kick ass episode for Teyla. Her "attempted seduction" of McKay would have been something I'd have liked to see.

:sheppard::teyla::mckay::ronan:

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 02:14 PM
Not true. I liked her in Firefly. I just don't like her as Keller.

I truly am interested in how another actress would portray the same character. She may have a different understanding of the character or a different way of presenting her. I'd like to see it.

It's still a matter of preferance ;). I hadn't seen Firefly before i saw her in sga.
Her appearances in sga made me wanna see more of her. The same happened with David Hewlett and Mitc Pileggi ;). I had seen them a couple of times but now i want to see more...

Cautious Explorer
August 11th, 2008, 02:25 PM
It's still a matter of preferance ;).

I can't argue with that. :)

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 02:34 PM
We agreeeeeeeeee

GoSpikey
August 11th, 2008, 03:05 PM
For Mitch, there's The X-Files, of course... :P

You should watch it completely. :D

*Has the dvds waiting for her for months...* :o

Ikaros
August 11th, 2008, 03:12 PM
ohh that's the one i have seen ;)

GoSpikey
August 11th, 2008, 03:16 PM
Good! :P

g.o.d
August 12th, 2008, 08:04 AM
For Mitch, there's The X-Files, of course... :P

You should watch it completely. :D

*Has the dvds waiting for her for months...* :o

you're female?:confused:

PG15
August 12th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Small update:


Carl is casting Identity,

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/august-12-2008-another-yawn-study-production-update-lets-talk-cordelias-honor-mailbag-and-the-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day/

Mitchell82
August 12th, 2008, 07:10 PM
I'm not holding Keller to a different standard. I'd like to see growth in all of the characters. But you're right. This is episodic tv and there's little chance of it happening.
Wait you don't expect the characters to grow because this is episodic tv? I beg to differ as the characters grow on a weekly basis.


Nevertheless, I would like to see growth in Keller, because unlike the other characters, I have never liked Keller. I find her immature. The only way I expect to have any hope of liking her is if she finally grows up.
I'll contend that she is young and a bit naive but I don't find her immature at all.




Because she's the head of the medical department on a mixed military/exploratory mission in another galaxy. She's the go-to person. The military can lead the rescue, pull the trapped people out of the rubble, but it's up to Keller and staff to provide medical support. I didn't see any of that. I saw a frightened girl following behind Carter and asking questions.
What? She is the one they send the hurt people to and provide support as needed but she was not in charge of the rescue Carter was. She was not frightened she was concerned for the people who were trapped. Very different than being scared for your own life.




No I'm not. I'm saying that Keller lying helpless under a pile of tentacles waiting for the rest of the expedition to save her is no indication to me that TPTB intend to give her character any meaningful growth this season either.
Hold on you're saying because the Seed had her baiscally trapped under a wad of tenticles means that they won't give her growth this season? How the hell did you come to that conclusion?:confused:


For the record, I hate it when Teyla is forced to play damsel in distress too. It's not a favorite plot element of mine.
I would hardly call moments that Micahel had Teyla captaive as "damsel in distress" nor was this IMO.



Are you saying that professional people are emotionless, unsympathetic and only speak in a monotone? Professional people are allowed to have emotions. I would love to see her show some anger or frustration over an inability to help someone. As long as those emotions are under control I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting them show through a bit.
IMO they are in Keller's case. They werent at first because she really didn't know what she was getting into so it was understandable but she has really grown control over her emotions IMO.




I much preferred Beckett's style. The man showed passion for his work and enthusiasm for new discoveries. He showed sympathy for his patients without falling apart. There's no reason a doctor should be a robot. I find Keller's frozen looks, hesitant speech and flat delivery in doctor mode to be far more unsettling than any small hint of human emotion would be. (Notice I'm not suggesting dramatic outbursts or wild hysteria).
We must be seeing two different Keller's as that is not the Keller I see on the show.

Mitchell82
August 12th, 2008, 07:14 PM
For Mitch, there's The X-Files, of course... :P

You should watch it completely. :D

*Has the dvds waiting for her for months...* :o

The X-files were good up untill season 8, then it went http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/3ddown.gif