The revised Origin (AOT spoilers)

[Sikon]

An insightful conversation on the Stargate Wikia's IRC channel:

<LucidFox> Was Origin invented out of wholecloth by the Ori, or was it an already existing religion that the Ori twisted for their purposes?
<Jaymach> as far as we know, they invented it
<LucidFox> Ah.
<LucidFox> Tomin's decision to revise it bugs me, though
<LucidFox> The Ori are Origin's gods, and now the mortals know that the Ori are dead
<LucidFox> what will be actually left of the religion?
<Jaymach> the fundamentals of it can still be salvaged
<Jaymach> the path to enlightenment and ascension is clearly real
<LucidFox> Yes, I understand that
<Jaymach> for example...much of Christianity (what Christianity is -meant- to be, rather than what its current followers make it out to be) is actually a good religion that only teaches you to be a good person
<Jaymach> but there are parts of it that are just plain terrible
<LucidFox> That's a very good point about "what it's meant to be"
<Jaymach> I really do believe that Christianity could be rewritten to be what I'd consider a good and decent religion...but in its current state, I just couldn't follow it
<LucidFox> Exactly.
<Jaymach> I find it to be the same with Origin
<LucidFox> However, that's not exactly the same as the Origin situation
<Jaymach> eh...yes and no
<Jaymach> I don't believe in an all-seeing god, nor could I ever without proof
<Jaymach> but I could still follow Christianity if it was about being a good person
<LucidFox> Imagine that the Christian God turned out to be a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, and then some extragalactic travelers killed him... and after that, you ask people to continue believing in him
<Jaymach> you wouldn't necessarily ask them to continue believing
<Jaymach> you could just stick to the tenants of the religion and portray the people within the holy document to be real people, just like they were
<Jaymach> (or just like they probably were, anyway)
<Jaymach> just include the bit about them being corrupted and warn the followers that it can happen to even the most just

I perfectly understand Stargate's reluctance to portray more controversial aspects of religion, but I think there's some food for thought here.

• Who would follow a religion whose main subjects of worship are now known to be dead false gods?
• What will be left of Origin at all if the Ori are written out of it completely?
• What would it imply for the Goa'uld followers? Would there still be people worshiping Ra even after the System Lords declare him dead? What will become of ex-Goa'uld-worshipers who decided to fill the spiritual void with Origin?

[LostCityGuardian]

Depends on what the religion contains apart from a directive to worship the god (or gods). If it is like Origin, with a strong moral code that was being warped by the Priors and Ori, but is fundamentally good, then there is certainly an argument that the religion should be saved.

[Splitsecond]

You can omit the gods part e.g Sodam in the Bible, some people thought that what was happening there was bad and decided to torch the place, one of the women looked back and saw the suffering and got cold feet and killed herself.

It changes the moral directive, which was the acts commited were wrong but keeps the point about not looking back on your vengful actions.

[DesertFox2020]

Still, everyone in the galaxy most likely now knows the Ori are dead. So, if they adopt this new religion, who are they worshipping? Without a being(s) to worship, can you still call it a religion? Isn't it more of a way of life to follow, not a religion?

[Sikon]

Well, Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism (to my knowledge) don't have deities to worship, they're more about one's own quest for self-fulfillment. Yet they're called religions.

In my opinion, religions are less about deities and more about ideals to follow and moral principles to live by. (But then, I'm an atheist.)

I don't know, however, if it would be possible to rework Origin into one of those, and if it's possible, how closely it would resemble the original. "Hallowed are the Ori!", in particular, will obviously have to go...

[Ltcolshepjumper]

You can omit the gods part e.g Sodam in the Bible, some people thought that what was happening there was bad and decided to torch the place, one of the women looked back and saw the suffering and got cold feet and killed herself.

It changes the moral directive, which was the acts commited were wrong but keeps the point about not looking back on your vengful actions.

This all depends on if you believe in the supernatural or not. If, and I stress if, the Christian god was not real, then there would be no point for christianity to exist in any form. why? because a religion that merely teaches you to be a good person is no different that the basic principles of most world religions. It wouldn't be religion at all. As well, most religions have some basis in the supernatural. Reincarnation?

As far as Origin, it would revert back to it's original form (that believed by the preascended Ori)- a quest to reach enlightenment (their original beliefs).

[Cameron Mitchel]

You can omit the gods part e.g Sodam in the Bible, some people thought that what was happening there was bad and decided to torch the place, one of the women looked back and saw the suffering and got cold feet and killed herself.

It changes the moral directive, which was the acts commited were wrong but keeps the point about not looking back on your vengful actions.

Uh, from your stand point people decided to torch the place, and a woman looked back, got cold feet and killed herself. What the Bible says (which is what I believe, you're welcome to debate it, with respect of course) is that God destroyed Sodam and Gomorrah, and that the woman (the wife of Lot) turned back (possibly more than just looking back, probably wanting to go back) and was turned into a pillar of salt, a.k.a. she died. This was because of a command telling them to not turn back.

[Sikon]

Except Origin never existed in a state "believed by the preascended Ori". It was created from scratch by the ascended Ori - after they ascended.

[Unbreak]

I`m not really sure it was all made up after they ascended, they say the ori were adepts of a Religion and the alterans were more adept of science...

I find most probably that the ori just posed as the gods they once worshiped... And made a few changes in the book of orign ( for example the part that "tell" about the alterans living ).

Because the book itself sometimes goes against what the priors are doing... So.. wouldnt it be easier just not have it there ?

[Splitsecond]

Uh, from your stand point people decided to torch the place, and a woman looked back, got cold feet and killed herself. What the Bible says (which is what I believe, you're welcome to debate it, with respect of course) is that God destroyed Sodam and Gomorrah, and that the woman (the wife of Lot) turned back (possibly more than just looking back, probably wanting to go back) and was turned into a pillar of salt, a.k.a. she died. This was because of a command telling them to not turn back.

But if you wished to rewrite the story without the use of God (for this situation whether God or any other supernatural events caused the story is not an important part, such things are going to be omitted, true or not) then you need to repace the fire and brimstone created by God with an equivilant created and controlled by man, this has to be fire. Since it is impossible for a man to turn a woman into a pillar of salt it must be a non-supernatural method of death. You also want to preserve the basic concepts of the story: the acts commited in the city were bad, the people who commited these acts were slain, the rightious survived, one woman turned back and was killed.

To do the same with the Easter story involves Jesus dying but his followers choosing to continue his teachings 2 days later, it looses its deity context but still can keep the moral and spiritual context (the spirit/knowledge/will of Jesus remained alive in his followers). This is how Origin will be rewritten, it will be about being good and doing good things so as to help you to ascend, its basicly going to become like the Kheb religion the Jaffa have.